1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Alsome Media. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. My name is James. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: We're starting Gangs. 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 3: I forgot to press the record button and I am 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 3: very lucky to be joined by Wendy Frye and we're 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 3: going to talk about a piece that Wendy did for 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 3: cow Matters about the FEDS DHS buying detention centers in California. 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 2: Hi Wendy, Welcome to the show. 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 4: Hi James, thanks for having me. 10 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so let's begin. I suppose by summarizing this article. 11 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 3: We'll link to it right, and I think everyone should 12 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 3: read it. It's a really good piece of reporting. But 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 3: can you explain what is happening here with these two 14 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 3: detention centers? 15 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,319 Speaker 4: Sure? Yeah, thank you so much so. 16 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 5: Last week, COURSEOVIC, one of the largest private prison companies 17 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 5: in the country in the nation, a publicly traded company, 18 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 5: announced that they had sold two of their properties to 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 5: the Department of Homeland Security for a billion and a 20 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 5: half dollars. And those two facilities are two of the 21 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 5: largest immigration detention facilities in California. O time mesa distention 22 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 5: center in San Diego County that has a capacity of 23 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 5: just a little under two thousand beds and. 24 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 4: Then the other one is the newly. 25 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 5: Opened California City facility up in Kern County, and that 26 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 5: one's just a little bit bigger with the capacity of 27 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 5: twenty five hundred beds. And we learned the details about 28 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 5: the sale through this filing with the Security Exchange Commission. 29 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 5: Like I said, because it's a publicly traded company, they 30 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 5: have to make some of the information about. 31 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 4: This deal public. 32 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 5: And we learned that the federal government paid seven hundred 33 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 5: and thirty nine million I think for O time Mesa, 34 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 5: and then the other one was I think about seven 35 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 5: hundred and thirty million. 36 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 4: For California City. 37 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 5: And we've done some additional reporting too since that article 38 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 5: came out, and we just last Friday, we're talking with 39 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 5: the San Diego County Appraiser, the Assessor's office and Kern 40 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 5: County found out that the last appraise value on these 41 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 5: properties was about a quarter of what the federal government 42 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 5: paid for them. So last praise value I think aout 43 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 5: one hundred and sixty million for O TEG Mesa. Not 44 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 5: I don't have the exact number, but around that, so 45 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 5: they paid, you know, maybe four times and of course 46 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 5: of praise's value, we have to take it sort of 47 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 5: with a grain of salt because it's not the market value. 48 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 4: But it would be very. 49 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 5: Hard to figure out what the market value is on 50 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 5: a property like this because there just aren't very many 51 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 5: of them. 52 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 4: Both places are these huge, brawling federal prisons. 53 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 5: That don't get sold very often, so it's hard to 54 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 5: figure out what the market value is. 55 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 4: But those are the last of praise value. 56 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, not much much your market for a giant prisons, 57 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: I suppose, certainly best to guess. 58 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, none much to compare it to as far as 59 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 5: the sale, right and on the federal government side, On course, 60 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 5: offic side, they said that this whole thing went through 61 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 5: a very rigorous process of governmental review and that everything 62 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 5: is above board there. 63 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so of course they'll say that. Yeah. So these facilities, 64 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: like they spend a lot. 65 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: Of money on them, right, and they have a lot 66 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: of money right now, they're sitting on a giant. 67 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: Pile of money. 68 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: Actually, before before we talk about what they spent on them, 69 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 3: people will remember when President Biden him into power, him 70 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 3: saying he was going to end private prisons, right, so 71 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: we should just, I guess begin by explaining how that 72 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 3: didn't include immigration detention and how these places have like 73 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 3: as you say, they haven't just continued, but in the 74 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,399 Speaker 3: last two years, I guess they're trying to expand immigration 75 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 3: detension capacity, right right, Yes. 76 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 5: So in California, particularly California state officials have tried to 77 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 5: ban private prison companies from operating within the state of California, 78 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 5: and the Ninth Circuit didn't uphold that. Like the California 79 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 5: Passe law, Governor news and signed it. It went ended 80 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 5: up in court. GEO Group and Course of BIC, the 81 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 5: two largest private prison companies, were fighting against this, and 82 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 5: they won the Ninth Circuit uphold the California can't ban 83 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 5: these facilities from operating, but they have pushed back a lot, 84 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 5: and California lawmakers are trying to write a series and 85 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 5: pass a series of laws that would require more of 86 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 5: the tax revenue from these companies to be you know, 87 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 5: absorbed by the state and disincentivized, basically financially disincentivized these 88 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 5: private prison companies from operating. 89 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 4: And that is one of the reasons why. 90 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 5: DHS in a statement that they put out, Jason Sweeney 91 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 5: with Ice told me, you know, it's financially infeasible, it's 92 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 5: become too burdensome from their point of view for the 93 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 5: private prison companies to operate in California because of all 94 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 5: the oversight and because. 95 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 4: Of all the you know, pushback. 96 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 5: The California officials have tried to do and have done 97 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 5: as much as they can basically. 98 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 3: On let's talk about this new attempt to grow detention capacity, right, 99 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 3: because their previous attempt was these warehouses where we spoke 100 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 3: to some folks in Social Circle on this show Social 101 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 3: Circle Georgia a. 102 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: While ago about that. 103 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 3: So, can you give people who haven't been following this 104 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 3: little synopsis of why they've moved away from the putting 105 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 3: human beings in warehouses models? 106 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 4: Sure? 107 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 5: So the spending bill, the federal spending bill that President 108 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 5: Trump signed last year to just the insanely unprecedented amount 109 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 5: of money for immigration enforcement, like more than even the 110 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 5: entire budget of the entire federal prison system. Right, it 111 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 5: includes about forty five billion dollars just for detention capacity alone. 112 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 5: So they poured a ton that, like you said, they're 113 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 5: sitting on just this huge pile of cash that they 114 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 5: have to spend. 115 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 4: They have to do something with that money. 116 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 5: The plan at the beginning of the year were, as 117 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 5: you mentioned these warehouses, right, that they wanted to from 118 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 5: their perspective sort of more intelligently design the both the 119 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 5: tension capacity. 120 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 4: And the deportation machine. 121 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 5: I think I'm not one hundred percent sure which DHS 122 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 5: officials said this. I think it was Tom Holman in Phoenix, 123 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 5: but it could have been ANOTHERDHS official, But basically they 124 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 5: said they wanted to design the quote Amazon Prime for humans. 125 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 5: So like they want to make this as fast and 126 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 5: as efficient as possible. They want to have a capacity 127 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 5: to say, up to one hundred thousand people on any 128 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,679 Speaker 5: given day, and they have a ton of cash, cash 129 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 5: that they've never even seen before, right, So buying up 130 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 5: this billion and a half dollars of real estate in 131 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 5: California is feasible to them, and they've. 132 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 4: Signaled that owning it rather than leasing it or. 133 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 5: Having Corsivic run it is more beneficial to them in 134 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 5: not having to comply with the oversight. The different inspections 135 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 5: and laws that California officials have tried to put into 136 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 5: place that allows, for example, inspectors with the California's Attorney 137 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 5: General's office, and there was a twenty twenty four law, 138 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 5: the California Pass that would allow local health inspect inspectors 139 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 5: to go in and do a health inspection. San Diego 140 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 5: County is the only place where they've actually tried to 141 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 5: do that, and the private company pushed back, so they've said, 142 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 5: do you jes have said in their statement that you know, 143 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 5: owning this and rather than another entity owning it gives 144 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 5: them the upper hand as far as avoiding some of 145 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 5: this oversight, and the federal courts have upheld. 146 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: That actually, right, So let's dig into that a little bit. 147 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: Right, A lot of people have started paying attention to 148 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: immigration detention approximately halfway through January in twenty twenty five, right, right, 149 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: And if you had been paying attention before in California, 150 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: you would have known that thousands of people were detained 151 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 3: without food, water, or shelter in the open air for months, 152 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: not like an individual duration stay was at most like 153 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: a week, but that the practice continued in Harcomber, YEP 154 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 3: in Acomber, and then yeah, in at least three places 155 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: in Hokkumba. I believe there were also other oad sites 156 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: that we didn't find, at least I didn't know about. 157 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: And then that also happened in Arizona as well. But 158 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 3: at that point in time, there was not a great 159 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: deal of inspection by the county. I saw a Office 160 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 3: of the Immigration detention on Bardsman person once their visit 161 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: didn't seem to result in any changes. But like, has 162 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: California committed on why they suddenly care about the I 163 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 3: guess the conditions migrants are detained in when they didn't 164 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: seem to care in a way that mattered three years ago. 165 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 5: Right, they certainly weren't coming out in statements and pushing 166 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 5: back as hard as we have seen them push back 167 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 5: against the Trump administration. That's true, and I have asked 168 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 5: like top California officials that. In an interview I did 169 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 5: with the California Attorney General Rabonta, I did ask him. 170 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 5: I was like, this is my really hard question for you, 171 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 5: is you know it didn't seem like you were pushing 172 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 5: back in this same way when you know there were 173 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 5: babies sheltering and porter partties. 174 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 4: Right. 175 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. 176 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: One night in September, I remember a lady breastfeeding a baby. 177 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 3: The baby was shivering, which, like, it's not a good 178 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 3: sign when babies are shivering, And like I was warming 179 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 3: up milk in the camping stove in my truck and 180 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 3: my friend was cycling toddlers in and out. 181 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: Of like a little warming station they built. 182 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 3: Like I've been through the Darien Gap and that's still 183 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: some of the worst shit that I've ever seen. 184 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 5: It was horrific, Right, I remember thinking like where is 185 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 5: the un like where is like the Red Cross? 186 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 4: Like this is a humanitarian crisis out here. 187 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, And it was in such a remote area it 188 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 5: was so it lacks so much visibility, both from the 189 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 5: media and you know, public officials. 190 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 4: So we did talk about that at one. 191 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 5: Point, and Bonta's response was, you know, we had a 192 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 5: working relationship with the Biden administration that wasn't controversial or 193 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 5: wasn't adversarial in the way that our relationship is with 194 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 5: the Trump administration, and so we could work on that 195 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 5: stuff behind the scenes. 196 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 4: Now I know you were out there. 197 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 5: Anybody who was out there would say, nobody really ever 198 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 5: saw the results of that collaboration or that work, right, 199 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 5: And you know, it is a concern for sure that 200 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 5: it does seem like California politicians, do you get more 201 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 5: bang for their buck in opposing the immigration policies of 202 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 5: the Trump administration. When it's important to note that a 203 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 5: lot of this infrastructure including especially a lot of the 204 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 5: AI infrastructure that are being used to surveill people who 205 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 5: are against these policies, and the palanteer the AI technologies 206 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 5: that is being used right now to find people and 207 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 5: detain them without making the headlines and in quite as 208 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 5: a high profile way as we saw last year. All 209 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 5: that was put into place by the Biden administration, right, 210 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 5: and so it. 211 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 4: Is important to note that for sure. 212 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 5: That a lot of these systems that now the Trump 213 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 5: administration is able to utilize were handed to them. 214 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 3: Let's entertain the idea that we have a midterm election 215 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 3: and the presidential election and they are conducted in a 216 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 3: way that we kind of are accustomed to with elections, 217 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: and the results are respected. Let's imagine we have a 218 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 3: Democrat in twenty twenty eight. 219 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: To do the master. 220 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 3: The FEDS will still own these two giant detention centers. 221 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: Right. 222 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 3: The way that immigration, in my experience works is like 223 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 3: it only seems to move in one direction. I guess 224 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 3: like this is why this is such a concern. 225 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 4: They're seeing themselves. 226 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 5: DHS is saying themselves that this is a deliberate strategy 227 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 5: to make their detention build out more permanent. 228 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 4: And harder to roll back with the changing. 229 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 5: Political wins, right, and so they're acknowledging that that that's 230 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 5: what they're trying to do. 231 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: That's not great, Yeah, yeah, that's. 232 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 4: But yeah, so it's from their own mouths, right. 233 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 3: So yeah, deeply concerning I wonder though, like previously they've 234 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 3: had a practice of moving people out of San Diego County, 235 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 3: Like I guess the practice is are on word. There 236 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 3: is like a number of incidents that I'm aware of 237 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: where they've moved people away from their lawyer in San 238 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: Diego County right to a detention facility like Dilly or 239 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 3: somewhere in Texas or something like that. I guess I 240 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 3: would make that impossibly it did's the same as it 241 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: was before. It'll just be from a federal prison to 242 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 3: a private prison. 243 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: Maybe. 244 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 5: Well, it's a less favorable federal jurisdiction a district, so 245 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 5: in San Diego I would say probably it's a more 246 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 5: favorable outcome to go before a federal district judge in 247 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 5: San Diego for a possible habeas petition and to flow 248 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 5: down the process as far as being deported, right, I 249 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 5: think that that probably happens faster in a federal district 250 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 5: in Texas. 251 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 4: Than it would here. 252 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 5: I have heard a lot from families about family members 253 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 5: being moved out to you know, these very remote I mean, 254 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 5: there's been an effort for a long time to make 255 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 5: sure that these facilities are set up in very remote 256 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 5: areas of California and in other parts of the country, 257 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 5: in remote areas that are hard for advocates, hard for attorneys, 258 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 5: hard for journalists like me to get to to report 259 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 5: what's going on in them. You know, it's like six 260 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 5: hours to get to California City as a drive I've 261 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 5: made way more times than I've want to now at 262 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 5: this point, right, So, you know, it does it does 263 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 5: impact the amount of resources that people can be connected to. 264 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 5: It is the biggest expense that I have as is 265 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 5: moving people around the country. I remember Senator Padilla did 266 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 5: say like it seems sort of illogical the way they're 267 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 5: moving Like they're moving people from California out of California 268 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 5: while they're moving people in other places into California. And 269 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 5: it seems illogical the way they're moving people around. But 270 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 5: the impact of that, I don't know what their purpose 271 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 5: or their intention is of doing that, but the impact 272 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 5: of is it really disorients people, Right, it's like where 273 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 5: am I, what am I doing? 274 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 4: What are the rules here? How do I get my 275 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 4: phone card set up? It takes them days. 276 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 5: Where they're kind of pushed back on their heels trying 277 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 5: to figure out what the system and the guards and 278 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 5: the new place where they go. And then, like I said, 279 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 5: it's definitely makes it harder for people when they get 280 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 5: moved around to these different facilities, and it's something that 281 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 5: we're definitely seeing happen a lot more. 282 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 4: Definitely hearing it from a lot of families in LA of. 283 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 5: Concern about people being moved way out to California City, 284 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 5: which is like in the middle of the Mohabi Desert, Right, 285 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 5: it's hard for families to get out there. 286 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 287 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's up in Kern County, I think, right, 288 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 3: But it's a high from anywhere from any major population 289 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 3: center in California. 290 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 2: It's a long drive. 291 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like an hour and forty minutes from like 292 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,839 Speaker 5: the farthest eastern community in LA, like Cheerlea. They have 293 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 5: an office in like eastern LA, And I think it 294 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 5: was like an hour and twenty to an hour and 295 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 5: forty to get to that office from California City, So 296 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 5: it's just just remote. 297 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 4: It's in the middle of nowhere, you know. 298 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, And if you think about where would I put 299 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 5: a place that's in the middle of nowhere where I'd 300 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 5: have the least amount of oversight, right like that, that's 301 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 5: the place that's definitely where you would pick. 302 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely combat Like OUTI mesa detention center. There are 303 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 3: bad things about what happens there, but like it is 304 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 3: relatively close people can get to it. 305 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 2: There are almost always people there, like. 306 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: Outside if someone is released, or people protesting what's happening there. 307 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: Like you say, like it's hard even to do things 308 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 3: like for someone to get money on their phone card 309 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 3: or like someone I've reported on many times and the 310 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: show was detained at Dilly and like it's difficult to 311 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: work out how to like put money on their commissary 312 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 3: so they can buy food because the food they get 313 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 3: is absolutely awful, and things like this and them every 314 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 3: time you move that that's different again, right, Like. 315 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 5: I was talking to an individual in El Salvador and 316 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 5: they were saying that, you know, they were moved around 317 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 5: maybe nine times before they were deported, and each time 318 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 5: they got to the different facility was like where am 319 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 5: I and who who are kind of the leaders in 320 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 5: this in this place, or like who do I talk 321 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 5: to because I need to get I need to get 322 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 5: this worked out. And sometimes they wouldn't even be able 323 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 5: to get the phone cards set up before the next 324 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 5: time they got loaded back on a bus to go 325 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 5: somewhere else, so even let their family know where they are. 326 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 5: And that's why it's so concerning that ICE is going 327 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 5: around opening facilities. Like we had one facility open I 328 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 5: think also in Current County. It's like right next to 329 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 5: Golden State annext so it's like kind of part of 330 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 5: that property. But they didn't tell anybody, right, Like, nobody 331 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 5: knew that this facility was opened until we reported on 332 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 5: it opening. And you know, if you're a family member 333 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 5: and you're looking on that ICE detainer, you're trying to 334 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 5: find your family member. If we have these, you know, 335 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 5: almost almost like black site ice detention facilities opening up 336 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 5: that nobody knows are running, how are you going to 337 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 5: find your family member if it's not even listed there 338 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 5: in the facilities, right. I Mean, there's been a lot 339 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 5: of reporting about how sometimes people are disappearing into these systems, 340 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 5: but that's one of the reasons why California has tried 341 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 5: to set these laws to say, like you have to 342 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 5: give the public a certain amount of notice before you 343 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 5: open a new facility, so that people are aware that 344 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 5: it's coming and they can have an opportunity to, you know, 345 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 5: say go to the California City Council meeting and make 346 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 5: their opposition known. But we've seen both ICE and the 347 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 5: private detention companies have in some cases been able to 348 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 5: find ways around those rules. 349 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, one of I guess the interesting things that we 350 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 3: have seen in the last maybe six months even maybe 351 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 3: somewhere that mostly this year, Right, it's like communities coming 352 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: together to oppose these things and data centers, right, or 353 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 3: like across a wide swath of American politics, like the 354 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 3: learn of the folks organizing in social circle and not 355 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: people who I think would generally identify as progressive politically, 356 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 3: but they were opposed to all the local consequences as 357 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 3: well as the abuses that happen in these detention centers. 358 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 3: Like it's definitely getting harder I guess for them to 359 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 3: build from scratch detention centers, right. 360 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 4: That's correct. 361 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 5: I mean some of these when at the beginning of 362 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 5: the year, when they had the warehouse plan, and they 363 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 5: were planning some of these mega detention centers, which like 364 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 5: they were trying to hold you know, ten to twelve 365 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 5: thousand people, which is crazy more than Rikers. 366 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 4: Right right. 367 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, like the largest would be the largest facility anywhere. 368 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 5: And you know, they were talking about even making their 369 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 5: own wastewater treatment plants, bringing in their own services because 370 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 5: the cities where the local municipalities wouldn't be able to 371 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 5: handle the influx of people, of employees of you know, 372 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 5: the roads, all. 373 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 4: The all the different services. 374 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 5: And so I think that's one of the things that 375 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 5: people are realizing is that these properties have an impact 376 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 5: outside of just the people that they're detaining, right They 377 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 5: have an impact, a ripple effect on the entire community. 378 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 4: And I think people are becoming aware of that now. 379 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, And it seems like, yeah, they're trying to 380 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: do other things. And they sold some of those warehouses 381 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: a loss as well, but it doesn't matter in the 382 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 3: grand scheme of how much money they have. 383 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 5: They have to get rid of forty five billion dollars, 384 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 5: so they really are aren't stressing the losses. 385 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 4: You know, it's a weird. 386 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 5: Problem to have, but they feel like they have to 387 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 5: spend this forty five billion arts kind of like use 388 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 5: it or lose it if they don't buy the next 389 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 5: by I think it's three years that they have, so 390 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 5: I think we will see them buying more properties for sure. 391 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 5: I think they really have their eye on at Alanto. 392 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 5: I said a script that like scans the SEC to 393 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 5: like automatically alert me if any of those companies sell anything. 394 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 4: Right, No. 395 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: Cool. 396 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 5: The other thing to keep in mind too about this is, 397 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 5: you know, the federal government doesn't pay local and state taxes, 398 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 5: so where they go into these small cash straps like 399 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 5: California City and say, hey, you're going to get two 400 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 5: million dollars a year in tax revenue from this facility opening. 401 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 5: And that's kind of how they convince or like they 402 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 5: try to win over the local politicians with hey, we 403 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 5: need this money, we need this facility to lower our 404 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 5: water bills and stuff like that. But none of that 405 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 5: is gonna It's like a bait and switch, right, They're 406 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 5: not going to be getting that two million dollar tax 407 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 5: revenue anymore because, you know, other than the income tax 408 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 5: of the employers, maybe that might but yeah, so that's 409 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 5: another you know part of it. 410 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, bait and switch is a good way to 411 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: describe it, Like people think they're getting one thing and 412 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 3: they end up getting another thing. 413 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: You talked about the employees, like when these. 414 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: Facilities change hands, will it then be like federal employees 415 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 3: or will they still be staffed by cour Civic. 416 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,239 Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's the that's the interesting thing is is 417 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 5: the federal government is going to own the real estate, 418 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 5: but corcivicas said in it's SEC filings that it expects 419 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 5: it thinks that it's going to be keeping those contracts 420 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 5: to continue operating the facilities. So the contract for California 421 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 5: City runs through August twenty twenty seven. The one for 422 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 5: Oti Mesa is supposed to end in twenty twenty nine, 423 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 5: but there's an option to extend it another five years. 424 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 5: And my impression is that ICE is quite happy with 425 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 5: the way Corcivic is running these facilities and Geogroup is 426 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 5: running these facilities, so that would. 427 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 4: Mean the same guards, the. 428 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 5: Same medical directors, the same kind of operations and day 429 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 5: to day at both facilities, and they plan on keeping 430 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 5: their existing management Cronto. Now they the acknowledge in the 431 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 5: SEC filing that there's no guarantee that they get to 432 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 5: keep it, but that it sounds like that's the deal 433 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 5: that they've worked out and negotiated with the federal government. 434 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 3: Sure, even when they've done these, like they stood up 435 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 3: that one camp East Montana they call it, which is 436 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 3: still run by a contractor, even though it's on Department 437 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 3: and Defense land, and the conditions there are atrocious from 438 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 3: what we saw with the Inspector General report, and it 439 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be a concern. 440 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's someone outside of Belpasso. 441 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Bliss, I've seen it. The tent camp. 442 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 4: Oh okay, out just side of Purt Place, Yeah, the 443 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 4: White To Camp. 444 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you know, it seems like they're violating their 445 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 5: own rules, right when they have these rules, they have 446 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 5: these set of standards that they have set up. 447 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 4: And that's the first thing where Civic or. 448 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 5: GEO we'll say, is like, hey, we follow all the 449 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 5: federal standards that are set up. 450 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 4: For us, right for detention standards. 451 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, but it seemed, especially with that one that you're mentioning, 452 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 5: that they violated all their own standards and setting that 453 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 5: place up. 454 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 455 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that place is particularly egregious. Like even 456 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 3: among immigration detention facilities, some of the stuff and the 457 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 3: Inspector General's report was genuinely shocking, and I thought I'd 458 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 3: lost a capacity to be shocked by this stuff. But yeah, 459 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 3: there's lots of terrible things have happened. Like I think 460 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 3: you reported on the Mongolian person, right, who was who 461 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 3: used sign language and was detained I think months without 462 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 3: an interpreter, if I'm remembering correctly. 463 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, he had never gotten a chance to even 464 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 5: tell his story on how he had crossed the border because. 465 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 4: CBP had like really confused his story. 466 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 5: He was telling them about his sister and they thought 467 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 5: that that it was his daughter, and they were using 468 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 5: like a I don't know AI, some kind of online 469 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 5: translation thing that was not even close to what his 470 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 5: actual story was. And yeah, he spent months without able 471 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 5: to tell anybody what happened to him. And you know, finally, yeah, 472 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 5: after we did our story, Like finally, the Ice attorney 473 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 5: was trying to set up like a relay team of translation, 474 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 5: but the federal judge was just said, like, doesn't he 475 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 5: have a right to participate in his own proceedings? Like 476 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 5: does it isn't he shouldn't he be an active participant 477 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 5: in the proceedings against him? Right, yeah, and not just 478 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 5: a bystander in that and then so then he the 479 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 5: judge rule that. 480 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 4: They had to get him an interpreter. 481 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 5: I guess they decided it was too hard to do 482 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 5: that because they let him out fairly after that ruling. 483 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean some of the conditions that we've 484 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 5: heard about. I mean, obviously, I think everybody's heard, like 485 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 5: the overcrowding, really severe lack of access to medical care, 486 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 5: the horrific food. We've been hearing about how bad the 487 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 5: food is for decades now in there, you know, smelling 488 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 5: moldy waters, particular problem in California City, and just something's 489 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 5: just like kind of the revaliation that people face if 490 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 5: they try to bring an issue up or if they 491 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 5: try to you know, advocate for somebody else. They feel 492 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 5: like oftentimes they tell us that they feel like, you know, 493 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 5: they get sort of retaliated against for that. 494 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 4: You know. 495 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 5: Meso Verdi is one of the one of the most 496 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 5: egregious violations that we've ever heard of, of, Like the 497 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 5: hunger strike. The hunger strikers all got dragged out and 498 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 5: according to them, you know, feed up or handled very 499 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 5: roughly and then taken to Texas and for sped with 500 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 5: a tube down their nose, right, Like, Yeah, there's definitely 501 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 5: been some very egregious things that have happened inside these 502 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 5: detention centers, and that's why it's so for people to 503 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 5: be able to you know, especially the congress members or 504 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 5: and the local state inspectors. It's very important for somebody 505 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 5: to be able to get in there and see what 506 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 5: the conditions are like inside. 507 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, this court case doesn't matter anymore, like with this 508 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 3: new development, right, the court case at least it matters 509 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 3: in other detention facilities, but not in Auto Mesa, specifically 510 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 3: in San Diego County. 511 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of remain to be seen. 512 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 5: I think, like I said, the federal courts have upheld 513 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 5: the state can't overstep their authority and like step on 514 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 5: federal authority to carry. 515 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 4: Out immigration of course, m right, yea. 516 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 5: I think that those health inspectors, they already have done 517 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 5: their health inspections, so they already did one, and their report, 518 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 5: I think is coming out at the end of July, 519 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 5: so there will be that. But and then I think 520 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 5: my understanding is Dian Diego County plans to fight. 521 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 2: It's so I thought they were going to appel it. 522 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, they're going to try to plus the issue 523 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 5: in court to see if they can continue going in 524 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 5: there and doing their inspections. But like I said, you know, 525 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 5: the courts haven't tended to rule that way, and deadjust thinks, 526 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 5: like we know from their on statement, that they think 527 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 5: that this will sort of put an end to the 528 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 5: different inspections and oversight stuff that the state and the 529 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 5: local officials want to do. 530 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 531 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pretty bleak, pretty big outlook for immigration detention, 532 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 3: which was not really a great outlook to begin with. 533 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 5: I guess yeah, But it's not come one hundred percent decided, 534 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 5: like it still has an open question. Whether these inspection 535 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 5: laws will survive the betteral ownership or not remains to 536 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 5: be seen, I think, right. 537 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, you said that they had plans for other locations. 538 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 3: I'm guessing they have plans to geogroup locations as well. 539 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,479 Speaker 3: Do you think this is their plan going forward to 540 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 3: try and acquire all of these private immigration that they 541 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 3: have the money too, I assume yeah. 542 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 4: I think everything points to yes on that. I think. 543 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 5: Course Ivic said in their statement that they are already 544 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 5: in talks with Ice about selling more of their facilities. 545 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 5: Geogroup has said on earnings calls that they would like 546 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 5: to sell their facilities, and like you mentioned, you know, 547 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 5: DHS definitely has the money thanks to that massive appropriation 548 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 5: from the federal government, so you know, really they've already 549 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 5: said that it's kind of their preference to outright own 550 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 5: them rather than lease them or. 551 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 4: Have a private company operate them. 552 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 5: In California, Yeah, so yeah, I think we will see 553 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 5: more of it, and I'm definitely, you know, trying to 554 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 5: monitor it as much as possible to see when that happens. 555 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 3: I wonder if this also changes the legal environment for 556 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 3: people who are either protesting or like they're in a 557 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 3: sort of mutual aid capacity for the migrant trelly. Sometimes 558 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: people can hear migrant shouting from inside, and they can 559 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 3: hear them like asking for someone to put money on 560 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 3: their phone card or what have you, or just describing 561 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 3: their condition to relating them. Will it being a federal 562 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: owned facility? Do you think that changes? Like because it's 563 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 3: legal to stand outside a thing, right, but if it's 564 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 3: a Fed facility, maybe it's even harder. 565 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 4: Yes, I do think it will change. 566 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 5: I do you think we'll see the federal government trying 567 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 5: to crack down harder on protesters that come. You know, 568 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 5: in no time Mason, they the people we're putting information 569 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 5: about how they were being held in bottles and throwing 570 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 5: the bottles over the gate to I do think for 571 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 5: sure that the federal government will operate differently now that 572 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 5: it's federal property. 573 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 4: Another thing that's very interesting. 574 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 5: You know, they already hold people who are not immigrant 575 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 5: detainees in California City, So they have a section of 576 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 5: that facility that are like. 577 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 4: People who are in the custody of the US marshals already. 578 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 4: So there are already people in there who aren't immigrants. 579 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 5: I wonder if we might see more of an effort 580 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 5: to detain more people in these facilities. 581 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 6: Who are not immigrants, right, Yeah, yeah, because they have 582 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 6: promises made to Corcivic and Geogroup that they are going 583 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 6: to try to give them a certain population of detainees 584 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 6: per day, right right, So that's another part that remains 585 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 6: to be seen. 586 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's also super concerning. 587 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, it really is super concerning of where it could 588 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 5: all go, right, Like especially you see you know, the 589 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 5: federal government calling protesters domestic terrorists and stuff like that. 590 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 4: It is really concerning. 591 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and we saw that in Like I was in 592 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: Minneapolis in late January, and the same thing happens there. Right, 593 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 3: they have their federal building it's called the Whipple Building, 594 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 3: and like they do immigration detention there, but then there 595 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 3: was also where people who were detained for protesting against 596 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 3: that immigration, those immigration accents were taken, right, they used 597 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 3: the same facility, and like there's a certain kind of 598 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 3: menace to that, right. 599 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 4: Like it's really alarming where it could go if you 600 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 4: think about. 601 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 3: It, right, Yeah, it's really really concerning. Like this is 602 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 3: one of those things that's where little people can can 603 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: do much about. Right. It's a like willing seller willing 604 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 3: buyer kind of situation where unfortunately, like there's pretty few 605 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 3: means for address. Like I hope California is successful with 606 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 3: being able to inspect them, at least that would be something. 607 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 3: And I know there are lots of really good groups 608 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 3: doing work to keep people out of detention, to help 609 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 3: with habeasts, to to improve conditions in detention, et cetera. 610 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 3: So like people can help out those groups that they 611 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 3: want to. Yet it does seem like this is a 612 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 3: particularly kind of bleak area of immigration enforcement right now. 613 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 5: Right, and especially since you know one of the first 614 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 5: things that Trump did is shut down the mechanisms that 615 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 5: people can appeal or report. Like you know, when you 616 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 5: have a complaint about something that's happened to you within 617 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 5: immigration attention, you complain about it either to the Offices 618 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 5: Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. There's another DHS, and both 619 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 5: of those have been shut down right now, are not 620 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 5: funded right now, So those mechanisms with which you can 621 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 5: get any oversight from within the federal government right now 622 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 5: are not operating. 623 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a idea or the other one. 624 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, that might be it. Yeah, that's right. 625 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen them precisely. 626 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: Want Wendy, if people want to follow your work, you've 627 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 3: done lots of good stuff on California account mat is 628 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 3: just some really good reporting. You have great reporting about 629 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 3: the operation Return to Sender, for example, back when that 630 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 3: was shocking. 631 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 632 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 2: How can people find you? 633 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's great. So all our stories are there on 634 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 4: calmatters dot org. Thank you for that. 635 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 5: And then our Operation Return to Center documentary is on YouTube, 636 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 5: so you can find that there. We did a lot 637 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 5: of work to show kind of what Bovino was saying 638 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 5: and what was actually happening on the ground. So that's 639 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 5: a really good one to watch. 640 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you guys public cholso in Spanish, right. 641 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 4: Yes, we do. 642 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 5: More recently we started translating more of our stories into 643 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 5: Spanish so that folks who want. 644 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 4: To read it in Spanish can find that there too. 645 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, that's super nice. 646 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 4: And I speak for in Spanish. If people need to 647 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 4: contact me in Spanish, I can communicate there. 648 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 2: Too, nice. 649 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 3: Yep, And there's a contact link for you on the 650 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 3: website and getting that people want to talk to you 651 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 3: about some of this stuff. 652 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 5: Right absolutely? Or yeah, I can just share my email 653 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 5: for sure. It's Wendy at Calmatters dot org. And I 654 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 5: am always hoping to hear from people so we can 655 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 5: do more end up the reporting about what's going on 656 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 5: inside these facilities. 657 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 4: So thank you so much for that opportunity to share that. 658 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, cool, Thanks thanks for doing this, Thanks taking time 659 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 3: to talk to us anything. 660 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 4: It could happen. 661 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 662 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonmedia dot 663 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 664 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find 665 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,719 Speaker 1: sources for it could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions. 666 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.