WEBVTT - Apple Explores Robots as ‘Next Big Thing’ After Car Fizzles 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:07.240 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.880 This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.640 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.840 global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:25.800 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.479 Now, let's get to a stock that is definitely really 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:31.720 a company that's on our mind today. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.280 Tim, Yeah, sure's Apple right now, hired by about three 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.280 tenths of one percent. It's a company we uh one. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.240 We all hit on in the headlines yesterday when this 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.480 Bloomberg exclusive crossed. We talked about it and talked about 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.280 it and talked about it and what might be could 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.000 be perhaps the next big thing in Apple. Carol, we're 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:51.160 talking personal robots that maybe could follow you around the house. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:52.159 They do the long other things. 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:54.000 If they do work, I'm in all right. We wanted 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:55.960 to know more. Back with us on at exclusive is 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.840 Bloomberg News Chief technology correspondent Mark German. He's out there 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.280 in our la be k. Mark so laid out for 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.840 us what exactly is Apple exploring and how far along 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:07.119 are they in this process? 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.039 Yeah, thank you both so much for having So let 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.920 me take you back to twenty nineteen Doug Field, who 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.800 now runs the electric vehicle division at Ford. He joins 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:24.440 Apple to run its electric car project, and one secret 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.640 team within the larger electric car group is a team 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:32.000 dedicated to robotics devices. They were working on drones that 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.320 essentially were silent. That was a really cool thing they 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:38.880 looked at. They ended up mixing that and then they 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.840 were also looking at personal robotics. Now that took a 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.120 back went to the back burner for many years, but 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.120 now the company is seriously looking at personal robotics in 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.520 the home. Two main devices that they've been looking at, 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:57.480 one that originated many years ago is a tabletop device. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.880 It's essentially a gigantic ipadcted to a robotic arm, and 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.560 it can follow the head movements of someone you're on 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.160 a FaceTime call with. So if I nod my head 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.519 or shake my head or laugh haha, right, the iPad display, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.240 you can move on the robotic arm. Yes, iPad display 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.720 will move on the robotic arm to mimic those movements. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.880 If I was on a FaceTime call with the other person, 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:22.880 to make them feel like I'm, you know, maybe in 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.120 the room with them, even though it is an iPad 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:30.359 mimicking my head. The other thing, perhaps more interesting, is 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.880 the idea of a robot, a humanoid robot, even that 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.320 can follow you around your home, can be a video 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.640 conferencing telepresence device, and even one pie in the sky 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.240 idea that maybe will never come to fruition or maybe 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.799 a decade or two from now, could actually do chores 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.680 for you, such as cleaning the dishes before you put 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:48.680 the dishwasher. 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:54.160 Yes, yeah, I thinking Jetsons. That's what I'm thinking that robot. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.360 I would I would argue that, you know, of all 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.200 the things that you mentioned in terms of use cases, 0:02:58.240 --> 0:02:59.720 the one I think that would be most compelling to 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:01.959 people would be an assistant around the house to actually 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:03.480 help with those things that we have to do each 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.000 and every day, like unloading the dishwasher, doing dishes, cooking. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:07.480 And the like. 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.080 That seems to me, I mean, I don't want to 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.200 dismiss anything that Apple's working on outright, but that seems 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.200 to me pretty far fetched in years away. Here. What's 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:19.639 the timeline that we're talking about here? 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.320 Well, One it is far fetched. Two, it may never happen. 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.799 Three These are ideas that are being floated around. They're 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.240 looking what is the technology landscape look like ten years 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.520 from now. You see Tesla with Optimist Prime, you see 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.080 other companies doing early explorations into the robot space, and 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:39.400 so that's what they're doing. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:39.760 Right. 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:45.320 These are research projects. These are not formal consumer product 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.600 development processes. These are still in the very early infant 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.840 research phases. So if these ever come to fruition, this 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.520 could be a decade from now. Don't forget the length 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.280 of the car project was really a decade long before 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.280 they ended up killing it. They did make a lot 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:00.800 of headway in the last couple of years or so, 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.520 I'd say, so I think this is pipe dream stuff, 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.720 but certainly the market is interesting. What Apple's looking at 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.280 and what it's exploring, and they're sort of planting a 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:10.720 flag in the robotic space. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.040 Now gotta say, Mark love my room to love that 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:14.960 it cleans up the floors. I already talked to a 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.120 digital home assistant like this just feels like from somebody 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.479 I could see that if it really could do stuff, 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.440 how people would adopt it. But it also I also 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.920 wonder kind of about the cost of it and how 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:27.839 expensive it would be. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:30.159 I mean, I don't know. 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:31.920 I mean it could be anything. It could be ten 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.719 thousand dollars, it could be twenty thousand dollars, right, I 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.240 mean the robotics equipment to create a device that can 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.520 be a human and act like a human, those things 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:44.400 are going to be extraordinarily expensive. If the Apple headsets 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.279 thirty five hundred dollars, the amount of technology that goes 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.960 into this could be tens of thousands of dollars. Now, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.040 the thing to note here, I mean this is basically 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.320 a semi diluted version of the engine they were working 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:56.839 on for the car. If you think about it as 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.599 self driving car is the ultimate robot would be a 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.760 robot that's not going to be on city streets. This 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.400 is going to be a robot that's going to be 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.080 in your home. And if you think about it, repurposing 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:12.360 that technology at much lower stakes makes sense. Profit margins 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.480 are different in the home versus on the road. The safety, 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.200 more importantly, is very different. You're not at risk of 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.840 this so called robot running someone over or getting you killed. 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.920 You're at risk of the robot running into your new 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.560 chair and damaging maybe the bottom of your chair or 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:29.880 a new couch or something. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.920 That dogs dogs and cats, maybe Mark, until it starts 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:35.680 throwing plates at you and it gets frustrated. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:36.120 Hey. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.800 Mark. The backdrop of this, though, of course, is looking 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.360 for the next big revenue generator for Apple. And you 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.640 write about this, and you write about the different products 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.000 and how much revenue they've brought in based on the 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.560 year that they were introduced. So talk a little bit 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.480 about how Apple is looking for something to essentially augment 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.720 revenue from the iPhone as iPhone sales slow down and 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.600 people upgrade slower. 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.120 You know, I would say that Apple really only has 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.560 one ecosystem today, It's the iPhone. Everything is built around 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.360 the iPhone. I would argue even the Mac and the 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.960 iPad are part of the iPhone universe. Right, You probably 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.440 own a Mac and an iPad or a Vision Pro 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.440 or whatnot because you own an iPhone. You can take 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.159 out the word probably for the Apple Watch and AirPods 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.560 because those really only work with the iPhone. So it's 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.840 one hundred percent if you own an Apple Watch or 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.120 in AirPods, it's because you own an iPhone. All these 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:36.080 Apple services that exist, Apple Music, Fitness Plus, Arcade, et cetera, 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.520 it's because you own an iPhone. What they need to 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.360 do is create subsequent ecosystems, new ecosystems. 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.560 They don't have one other than the iPhone, so they 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:44.839 need to. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.560 Find that the car would have been that. It's unclear 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.080 what else could create its own ecosystem other than a car, 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.280 and robots in the home could be the closest thing. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.760 And so that's why it's a particularly interesting area. 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:58.840 Hey, Mark, just thirty seconds here. How much of this 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.159 is kind of part of their focus another focus at 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.560 the company, which is artificial intelligence. This kind of what 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:05.479 folds into this and plays into this a little bit. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.160 Well, if you think about it, a robot is the 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.880 ultimate expression in terms of hardware of artificial intelligence. A 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.480 robot is an AI powered device. A self driving car 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.920 would be an AI powered device. So if this comes 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.440 to market, whether it's the tabletop device sooner or a 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.960 personal robot fifteen years from now, those are AI devices, 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.800 and those would essentially be the first from Apple. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.440 Bottom line, though it may never happen. Ten seconds. 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.400 Bottom line, it may never happen, but it's interesting that 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.120 they're looking at it. And I will say I do 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.440 think maybe the personal robot may not happen, but there 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.240 will be an Apple robotic based device happen in the 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:45.040 next five to ten. 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:45.440 Years for sure. 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.800 Right, well, cool stuff as always, Bloomberg News Chief technology 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.560 correspondent Markerman on his exclusive you can read more. Just 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.640 head to the Bloomberg terminal or a Bloomberg dot com. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.960 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.280 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.480 on Apple car Play and ed Brout Auto with a 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.520 Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.640 All right, ti, So when you think of Nvidia and Microsoft, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.120 definitely the poster childs when it comes to the AI frenzy, 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.760 But as you know, there are many others that have 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.280 been trying to scale AI for well over a decade, 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.160 so it might surprise you. Maybe not, but wireless carriers 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.440 like Verizon, so the excitement over AI is happening at 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.719 the same time as the rise of five G. So 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.959 while this may surprise people, Verizons AI engines actually in 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.959 just more than seventy billion data points off the network 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.400 every single day, and that kind of massive volume does 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:51.319 provide a big opportunity empowering AI models, but it also 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.640 comes with a host of challenges. So joining us. Now 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.199 in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio is Craig Silliman, president 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.200 of Verizon Global Services, to chat with us on how 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.000 the company is using AI, automation and robotics to tackle 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.040 labor challenges. Thanks so much for joining us. It's great 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:07.960 to have you here. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:08.360 How are you? 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.800 Thanks, Jeess, great to be here, and Tim appreciate you 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:11.839 inviting me. 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.160 We'll walk us through this when it comes to Verizon 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.040 and sort of the parallels when it comes to what 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.839 your company has been doing over the past decade in 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.240 relation to AI and also five G and what this 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:22.520 means really moving forward. 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:22.840 Yeah. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.080 Absolutely, we As you mentioned, everyone right now is talking 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.760 about generality of AI, right that's the thing hitting the headlines. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.240 But AI has been around for a long time, and 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.920 we've been working with AI now for more than a decade. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.000 We have more than three dozen AI use cases in 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:41.400 production in our customer service centers, in our stores, in 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.880 our supply chain. So we've been working on this for 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.280 a while. We continue to refine, we continue to improve it. 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.199 So as a customer of Verizon, whether it's I'm a 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.040 FiOS customer, whether I use Rising for business, whether I 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.599 use Arising, wireless. How am I seeing the manifestation of 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:55.800 these investments in AI. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.559 First, thank you. I hope you are customer tim so 0:09:58.679 --> 0:09:59.079 thank you for that. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.880 Yes, yes, yes, thank you. 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:04.839 Well, keep it looking to win you over. You know 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:06.400 you're going to see it in a number of ways 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:08.640 where you may it may be transparent to you. In fact, 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.560 if we do our job well, it will be transparent 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.040 to you. What we're trying to do constantly is use 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:18.600 AI to take work away from our employees that's more 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.120 tedious or that's not high value add for you, the customer, 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:24.439 so that they can focus on you. So we want 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.520 our employees doing the things that humans do best and 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.840 let the AI do things that they do best. Would 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.760 it be customer service at this point? Is a chat? 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:34.320 Absolutely? 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:36.560 So if you call it into our customer service reps today. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.880 In the background, we're going to have a number of 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.640 AI use cases going on. First of all, we have 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.480 intelligent call routing so that we know what you're calling 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.160 in about and we can match you with an agent 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.480 with the skill sets best match to serve your needs. Secondly, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.120 as you're talking to the agent, the AI is serving 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.839 up in real time information for the agent about what 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:57.680 they need to answer your So. 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.920 The AI is listening to my voice and sort of 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.400 perhaps coming up with answers to questions that people who've 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.120 spoken things similarly to whe I'm speaking have asked about. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.760 That's exactly right. And if you think about the number 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.160 of permutations, the number of devices we sell, the number 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.880 of plans we have, there are hundreds of pages of 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:19.480 material available to our customer service agents to answer your questions. 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.920 We don't want them going through that while they're trying 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:23.840 to listen to you, So the AI will get clear 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.199 and synthesize it for the agent so they can get 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.280 very quickly to exactly the answer that you need. So 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.800 what you're going to see as a customer is quicker 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.040 time of response and more relevant answers to your questions. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.719 So does this basically sidestep even if you have some 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.199 maybe simple questions where you don't end up having to 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.439 talk to a customer service rep and you can just 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:45.480 use the AI to get the answers that you want. 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.920 Yeah, great question, justin And as we continue evolve the models, 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.640 what we want to get to is that you can 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.839 interact directly with We all have chatbots today, but we 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.920 want to make those chatbots far more robust, so they 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.080 give you a more relevant, relevant answer. Of course, once 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.520 you're interacting directly with an AI as a customer, we 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.959 have to make sure we get that right. We take 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.079 very seriously our responsibility to our customers. We all know 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.480 the stories about AIS that have gone rogue, and so 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:15.679 we do a lot of testing to make sure that 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.560 we get that right before you're interacting directly with an AI. 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:22.440 We've talked to Earn Mark German a lot about he's 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.760 chief technology correspondent here writes a lot about Apple breaks 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.160 pretty much every big story about Apple about how a 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.679 company like Apple is going to start using AI and 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.240 handsets over I mean, look for asen wireler's a huge 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.120 part of your business. How are you thinking about the 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.240 hardware side of this, the side that you don't control, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.839 and what that means for your network when there is 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.560 AI in our handsets used in real time. 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.760 Obviously, all of the device manufacturers are big partners of ours, 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.319 so we're in constant conversation with what they have coming out. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.920 But more from our perspectives we think about the network. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.679 There are a couple aspects of AI. First, just mentioned 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.719 this stat we're ingesting seventy billion data points off the 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.800 network every single day, and running those through analytics engines 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.960 that we can not only do kind of descriptive analytics 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:08.360 what's happened and diagnostic analytics of why did it happen, 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.880 but predictive and prescriptive analytics what's going to happen next? 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:14.439 Where do we see the growth of the network. Where 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.280 do we need the engineers getting ahead of the builds. 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.839 We're using AI to make sure the network stays ahead 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.440 of the usage, but we're also looking at use cases 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.080 as all of us, as consumers use more and more AI, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.160 we expect that to drive further usage of the network. 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.040 Can you expand more about specifically the data points? When 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.760 you're talking about seventy billion, where are you getting that data? 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.960 So every time you're walking around, driving around the streets, 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.319 your device is constantly communicating with the network and what 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.520 we're looking at there on an aggregated basis. It's not 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:48.280 personal to you on it, but an aggregated basis. 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.000 Where we spend a lot of time at the office, 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:52.880 you work way too much. 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:58.120 We're device. This is on an aggregated and anonymized basis. 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.720 But the data session, how are you communicating with the tower. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.199 Are we seeing congestion? Are you seeing certain parts of 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.800 the times of the day that certain cell sites are 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:08.959 getting more congested so that our engineers can get out 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.120 ahead of that and build out capacity things like that. 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.920 Are we seeing certain usage patterns that are driving changes 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.439 in the network And we've seen that over the last 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.280 couple of years changing usage patterns as through COVID drove 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.640 a lot of that shifts from urban environments to more 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.360 rural and that helps us get ahead of the build At. 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:27.920 The end of the day, Does any of this matter 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.360 for customers serve customer acquisition for getting more people to 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:32.600 sign up for Verizon. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:37.160 Service, Absolutely, because customers are looking for reliability in their connection. 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.360 We all live our lives on these devices, we run 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.000 our businesses on these devices, so we're all looking to 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.280 say how reliable is this? So our ability to get 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.280 ahead of the bill to make sure we're meeting customer 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.360 needs before you ever know that need is there will 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.280 absolutely lead to customer acquisition. 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.920 What's the top question you get from customers related to 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:56.480 this right now? 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.520 The top question is probably can you do away with 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.280 customers service agents altogether and. 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.440 Just go to AI really get that they don't want 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:04.160 to put it to people. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.120 Well, actually it's a great question to but actually know 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.720 they ask that more in a worried way. They're worried 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.600 that we're going to move completely to AI, right, And 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.760 so what we're saying is we really don't see that. 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:19.040 We see AI as an assist to our employees, not 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.880 a replacement. It makes them more effective. It lets them 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.400 focus on the most rich human parts of their job. 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.200 And we think that'll be good for customers, because customers 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.480 want someone with empathy who's listening to them, but who's 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.200 assisted by all this great new technology. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.080 I do not want the humans to be gotten rid 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.560 of I promise you that, Craig Silliman, President of Rising 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.080 Global Services. Here in our Bloomberg Interactive at Brokers Studios. 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.560 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.520 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.560 Play and Androyd Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.840 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:01.200 New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty Well. 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.800 Dave Calhoun took over in January of twenty twenty for 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.960 ousted Boeing CEO Dennis Muhlenberg, who downplayed design defects that 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.760 killed three hundred and forty six people when the maxis 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.480 flowed software crashed two planes. Yet four years later, Calhoun 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:16.600 is out. In addition to losing more than twenty three 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.520 billion dollars during his four years as CEO, Boeing lost 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.280 the trust of flyers, the patients of airline customers, and 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.400 the indulgence of regulators. As our next guest writes, now 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.160 that Calhoun is leaving by year's end, Boeing has also 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.920 lost the fiction that Calhoun was ever the right leader 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.920 to fix the company, and over the long run, that 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.280 could be a good thing. Peter Robinson is Projects and 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.160 investigations reporter for Bloomberg News. He's also the author of 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.080 the New York Times Business bestseller Flying Blind, The seven 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.920 thirty seven max Tragedy and the Fall of Boeing. Peter 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.760 joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's Studio. His story, 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.800 by the Way, co written with Julie Johnson, and it's 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.400 featured in the new issue of BusinessWeek magazine, available now 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.680 on newsstands, on the Bloomberg Terminal and at bloomberg dot 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.560 Com slash business Withek Peter. Good to see you here 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.280 in New York. Usually you're out in Seattle, So awesome 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.760 to have you here. This piece not just a great 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.080 overview of Calhoun's failed time at Boeing, but also a 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.359 history of really where the problems at Boeing began. But 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.480 what I want to talk about is that key decision 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.760 back in twenty eleven when the company decided that instead 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.919 of building a brand new airplane, what they were going 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.920 to do is re engineer A seven thirty seven for 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:24.640 the fourth time. 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.280 Yeah, it is a really key moment, and it's what 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.359 set off what we're seeing now, which seems like a 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:38.080 recent implosion. And Boeing really had this same choice even 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.320 back in the nineteen nineties. At that time, Airbus had 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.240 stolen a big order. And one of the things I 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.760 write about in my book was a meeting that Boeing held, 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.920 and it was a meeting at that time to say, 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.560 should we, you know, should we match the A three twenty. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.040 The E three twenty has some advancements in the cockpit 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:02.840 that provide more more integrated electronic features to the pilots, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.880 and the cabin is wider, and Boeing said at the time, 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.920 you know, I talked to one former executive Boeing, Gordon Bethune, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.400 who also ran Continental, and he recalled that he thought 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.520 to himself, you know, maybe, you know, maybe we should 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.280 get a jump on Airbus here and get ahead of this. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.520 And he was leaning toward voting for an all new plane, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:23.640 but he knew that the manager of the seven thirty 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.480 seven factory didn't want that. It's hard to update a factory. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.040 There's all these sunk costs and tooling, so he voted for, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.040 you know, doing an update at that time, and the 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.600 vote was five to three. Boeing did an updated seven 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.639 thirty seven, and then again, as you said, in twenty eleven, 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.760 Americans stole this big order and Boeing faced the same choice. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.640 It had just come out of a very expensive development 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.159 project on the seven eighty seven and didn't have much 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.360 appetite for an all new plane, and so it went 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.679 with the updated seven thirty seven, which has not proved 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.280 of sales success, you know, and that's an understatement against 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:01.320 the airbus plane. 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.479 Walk us through that key decision back in twenty eleven 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.919 and how we got to where we are now, there. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:12.680 Were meetings held in the summer in Dallas secretly with 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.719 Airbus execs and American Airlines execs, and they met at 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.399 a hideaway hotel in Dallas where they didn't think that 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.679 Boeing's on site sales rep would see them, and they 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.639 successfully negotiated a big deal for a three twenties and 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.680 that was a huge coup for Airbus because it was 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.719 a takeaway for Airbus. They didn't at that time American 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.800 Airlines didn't have a three twenties. Boeing was surprised, I 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.200