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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to battleground. So what does it mean

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Speaker 1: to be a good man? How about a good husband

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Speaker 1: or a good father? These are tough questions and if

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Speaker 1: you're a good man, my guess is you probably grapple

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Speaker 1: with these questions often, but far too often, especially in

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Speaker 1: America today, men don't have many places to turn for

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Speaker 1: guidance and mentorship on these critical, critical issues. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: feel like we're losing what it means to be a man.

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Speaker 1: And this week we have Ryan Mickler. Ryan is an

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Speaker 1: Iraq War combat veteran and he's the founder and creator

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Speaker 1: of Order of Man. The Order of Man is an organization. Actually, no,

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Speaker 1: the Order of Man is a movement and it consists

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Speaker 1: of hundreds of thousands of men dedicated to helping one

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Speaker 1: another answer these foundational questions. It's a community who want

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Speaker 1: to learn what it means to be a strong and

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Speaker 1: honorable man, a good father, a good husband. The Order

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Speaker 1: of Man is dedicated to taking back what it means

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Speaker 1: to be a man. And on this episode, Brian and

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Speaker 1: I talk about helping men be resilient. How Ryan's life

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Speaker 1: would be different if his father was around, Why kids

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Speaker 1: need fathers, The war on masculinity and how to raise

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Speaker 1: great kids, end so much more. But before we get

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Speaker 1: to that conversation, sign up for the Battleground newsletter. It

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Speaker 1: goes out every single week. Go to my website Official

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Speaker 1: Seanparnell dot com check out the brand new Battleground apparel.

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Speaker 1: Life is a battleground, Ladies and gentlemen, it's our duty

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Speaker 1: to never surrender and without further ado, I hope you

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Speaker 1: enjoy my conversation with the founder and creator of the

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Speaker 1: Order of Man, Brian Nicklery. Ryan, Welcome to Battleground Man.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's up, brother, It's great to see you. I'm

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Speaker 2: excited to all. I'm excited you launched the podcast and

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Speaker 2: then excited to be on the on the show as well.

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Speaker 1: Man, I have to tell you this, uh, this world

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Speaker 1: is dizzying. There's a lot to learn. I feel like

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Speaker 1: just buying all the equipment and testing it and making

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Speaker 1: sure everything functions properly, especially when you know I used

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Speaker 1: to fashion myself as a tech savvy guy, but now

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Speaker 1: things change so fast. Things are evolving faster than I

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Speaker 1: can keep up. But I'm really really grateful for your

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Speaker 1: help and your mentorship on this project, and you know, really, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: what so I went back and listened to your very

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Speaker 1: first podcast and prep for this interview, and I realized

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Speaker 1: a lot of things after having to that. But but

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Speaker 1: you you are now, I would say, one of the

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Speaker 1: foremost experts on what it means to be a man,

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Speaker 1: the role and the importance of fathers and the lives

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Speaker 1: of children, but especially boys, what it means to be

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Speaker 1: a good man, a good spouse. And you talked about

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Speaker 1: that mission in your very first episode and clearly articulated

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Speaker 1: what you were setting out to do and how now

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Speaker 1: that you were a father and had your own children,

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Speaker 1: you realize that there was a void in this country

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Speaker 1: and that and that maybe you I think you even

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Speaker 1: went so far as to say, there's an assault on

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Speaker 1: what it means to be a man in this country.

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Speaker 1: And so I think as a result, Ryan, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've had you know, something like I think we have

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Speaker 1: like something like from twelve year olds to forty and

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Speaker 1: maybe even beyond of men, boys and men who have

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Speaker 1: no idea really what it means to be a man.

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Speaker 1: But the order of Man and your book Masculine Manifesto,

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Speaker 1: I think is helped provide some clarity there, but.

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Speaker 2: I hope so, I mean, I look just to set

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Speaker 2: the record straight. I appreciate the compliment, but I am

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Speaker 2: not an expert on this stuff. You know. I have

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Speaker 2: my fair share, if not more so, of struggles and

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Speaker 2: internal battles and the way I show up in my relationships.

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Speaker 2: So I want to be really clear. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to put myself ahead of anybody or or pretend that

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Speaker 2: I have more figured out personally than I do. In

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Speaker 2: many ways, I feel like over the past eight years,

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Speaker 2: I've learned a lot of stuff that has made me

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Speaker 2: improve my life as a man. And then also there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of things in my life where I've realized,

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Speaker 2: you know, even though I talk about these issues and

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Speaker 2: I'm intimately familiar with what we as men need to

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Speaker 2: be doing in our lives to improve our situation and

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Speaker 2: the lives of the people around us, that I'm not

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Speaker 2: great at implementing that stuff. So I can see how

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Speaker 2: challenging it is if somebody like myself, again, not putting

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Speaker 2: myself out ahead of anybody, but somebody who's poored, is

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Speaker 2: his time and attention and energy, thousands and thousands of

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Speaker 2: hours and energy into this still falling into the same

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Speaker 2: traps that I often warn others about. It's very interesting

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Speaker 2: to put it mildly.

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Speaker 1: Well, what I find remarkable about you and in your story.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're an Iraq combat veteran, You're you're you're

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Speaker 1: a veteran like me. But how listening to all the

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Speaker 1: things that you went through as a kid, and you're

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Speaker 1: very open about this and not having a permanent fatherhood

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Speaker 1: presence in your life as a kid, and how that

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Speaker 1: has affected you, uh, not just affected you, but what

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Speaker 1: I what I think is extraordinarily powerful. And I think

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Speaker 1: positive about your life's experience. And I'm sure there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of negative shit too, don't get me wrong, But

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Speaker 1: you've been able to take that pain and channel it

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Speaker 1: into something that is a channel, into a movement. And

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Speaker 1: to me, it seems like you've almost said, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: I went through all of this stuff, and now I'm

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Speaker 1: going to do everything that I can to make sure

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Speaker 1: other boys and other men who might have a similar

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Speaker 1: experience learn something from me and maybe live a more

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Speaker 1: powerful life driven with purpose.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, look, I talk with men every day

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Speaker 2: who are struggling with some of the most difficult things

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Speaker 2: you can imagine from losing a loved one maybe that's

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Speaker 2: some sort of voluntary type separation or the death of

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Speaker 2: a loved one, to medical conditions, to mental illness, to

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Speaker 2: suicide and deep, deep clinical depression. You know, it's sad

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Speaker 2: to see that so many men are going through this,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not sure that we can totally eliminate the

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Speaker 2: fact that we do have to go through these issues.

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Speaker 2: But if I can help men be a little bit

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Speaker 2: more resilient during those times, uh, they're inevitably going to

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Speaker 2: come those challenging times. You know, divorces happen, addiction takes place,

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Speaker 2: medical issues, uh, loss of a job. Like, these things

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Speaker 2: are going to happen, and it's it's hard and difficult

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Speaker 2: when they do. But if I can help a man

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Speaker 2: be a little bit more resilient, then maybe I've been

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Speaker 2: in the past or use some of my own painful

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Speaker 2: experiences to help somebody be a little bit more resilient

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Speaker 2: and come out the other side of these challenging circumstances unscathed.

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Speaker 2: Then I feel like we're doing work worthwhile.

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Speaker 1: Do you think so? How put me back, take me

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Speaker 1: back to the beginning, Put me in your shoes as

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Speaker 1: a kid, and and you know, because you talk about,

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Speaker 1: like I said in your very first episode about you

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Speaker 1: having a father that really struggled with a lot of

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Speaker 1: this stuff, you know, and in your complimentary to your mom,

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Speaker 1: obviously she was a strong, extraordinary woman who did everything

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Speaker 1: she could to raise a great son and a great daughter.

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Speaker 1: And how when you do the your experiences of all

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Speaker 1: of that as a kid, and obviously it's shaped the

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Speaker 1: man that you become today. But do you think about

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Speaker 1: that with regards to raising your own children.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting if if my father was in my

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Speaker 2: life as a permanent fixture, would my life look different?

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Speaker 2: Would I be a different man? Would I be a

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Speaker 2: better man? I'm not actually sure if I could, if

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Speaker 2: I can unequivocally say yes that I would be better

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Speaker 2: had my father been around, I don't know the answer

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Speaker 2: to that. How could we?

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what That's exactly what I'm getting at. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I look at so I look at my

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Speaker 1: experience and just to give some context and shape to

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Speaker 1: the conversation, nine to eleven was one of the most

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Speaker 1: horrific experiences. You know, terrorist attack the likes of Wisit's

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Speaker 1: country has never had to endure before, right, it changed

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Speaker 1: the trajectory of this country with regards to how we

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Speaker 1: look at foreign policy, with how we evaluate threats. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it spawned this whole Department of Homelands Security, the concept

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Speaker 1: of homeland security, you know, and obviously altered the trajectory

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Speaker 1: of my life. Ryan a horrible event, right, But I

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Speaker 1: look back on that and I say, well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: that horrible event led me to join the army, introduced

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Speaker 1: me some of them, to some of the most amazing

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Speaker 1: men that I've ever met in my life. And I

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Speaker 1: went to Afghanistan and war sucks, you know that. But

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't change those experiences for anything. You know.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's what I would say, though, sean to that,

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Speaker 2: is that in this instance, the exceptions don't disprove the rule.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think I won't say it. I won't

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Speaker 2: say that a man who grows up without a father

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Speaker 2: who is successful in his own right is uncommon. I

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Speaker 2: don't think that it's uncommon. I think it's fairly common.

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Speaker 2: There's plenty of men that I've talked with, some of

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Speaker 2: the most successful men on the planet grew up without

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Speaker 2: a father figure in the planet in the household. So

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Speaker 2: can we say that he would be better off with

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Speaker 2: a father. But here's what I do know. If you

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Speaker 2: look at the statistics the rate of drug use, the

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Speaker 2: rate of depression and suicide, gang activity, criminal activity, If

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Speaker 2: you look at the rates of those types of behaviors

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Speaker 2: and activities for boys who don't have fathers in the homes,

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Speaker 2: they are significantly increased. And that's just the statistics, that's

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Speaker 2: the data. So we can pore over the data. We

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Speaker 2: can look at drug abuse, we can look at mental

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Speaker 2: health and mental illness, we could look at criminal activity,

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Speaker 2: we could look at suicide and know that having a

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Speaker 2: father in the home is better than not. Now, whenever

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Speaker 2: I say that, guys will say, well, but if the

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Speaker 2: father is abusive, right, like, I don't need to spell

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Speaker 2: all of this out. Of course, if the father is

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Speaker 2: physically or verbally or mentally or emotionally abusive or introducing

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Speaker 2: their son to things he should not be intered. Of course,

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Speaker 2: that's a problem. When I say having a father in

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Speaker 2: the home, what I mean by that is an engaged, loving, caring,

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Speaker 2: masculine presence that will help our young men understand what

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Speaker 2: they're feeling, what they're experiencing, what they're going through. What

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Speaker 2: their hormones are doing to them, how it's causing them

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Speaker 2: to behave, and then learning how to harness all of

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Speaker 2: that masculine energy into productive outcomes for themselves and the

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Speaker 2: people that they care about. And that's what I would

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Speaker 2: call manliness.

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Speaker 1: Man. I I mean to me this, this is so

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Speaker 1: powerful for a lot of different reasons. And you know

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Speaker 1: I've been on your show a couple of times now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you my own personal experience with this is.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've known you for a while. I said

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Speaker 1: to myself, well, you know what is you know, I

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Speaker 1: know what it means to be a man. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've done some tough shit. I've been to war, I've

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Speaker 1: led men in combat. You know, I'm a father. I

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Speaker 1: think I'm a good involved father. That's something that's important

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Speaker 1: to me. You know something that else is something else

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Speaker 1: that's important to me. And I'll be in a good

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Speaker 1: involved husband and making those little improvements every day and

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Speaker 1: seeing every day as an opportunity to improve and better yourself.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: But what I didn't realize through all of that rationalization

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Speaker 1: in my own head was how desperately I needed it.

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Speaker 1: And when you start asking deeper, profound questions about what

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Speaker 1: does it mean to be a man? You know, or

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Speaker 1: or you've got an article out there of something that

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Speaker 1: you rune in your blog about boys need fathers or

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Speaker 1: boys needs dads, and unequivocally that is true, right, but

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Speaker 1: oftentimes in our lives we almost take that for granted.

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Speaker 1: So so what does it mean, like what do boys

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Speaker 1: need from fathers? What does it mean for me to

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Speaker 1: be a good man? You know? What does it mean

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Speaker 1: for me to be a good husband? And what I

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Speaker 1: realized on your show is that you you you ask

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Speaker 1: these what are very general questions, right, that can have

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Speaker 1: profound implications in our lives, and most of the time

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Speaker 1: I think people gloss over them, you know, because you're

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Speaker 1: so busy with life. Life happens, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: know that you're a husband, you know that you're a father,

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Speaker 1: but maybe you don't. I was talking to Melanie about

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Speaker 1: this today, like, I don't think I've ever asked myself,

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Speaker 1: even though I do think I'm a good dad. I

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Speaker 1: love my kids, I want to be involved in our lives.

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Speaker 1: I'm fit, willing, and able, and I like hanging out

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Speaker 1: with them, But I've never really asked what exactly do

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Speaker 1: my boys need from me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a great quote by Marcus Aurelius that says,

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Speaker 2: waste no more time arguing what a man should be.

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Speaker 2: Just be one. Right. I'm paraphrasing a little bit, so

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Speaker 2: I may have butchered that, but that's the gist of it.

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Speaker 2: So it might be easy to assume that we all

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Speaker 2: know what it means to be a man. And the

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Speaker 2: only reason we believe that is because we blew up up.

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Speaker 2: We grew up excuse me, in certain constraints, in certain

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Speaker 2: stories and narratives and experiences and cultures and religious practices

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Speaker 2: that shaped our view of manliness. So you think you

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Speaker 2: have it figured out until you don't. That's right where

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Speaker 2: it gets you. No, And I can even tell I

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Speaker 2: can tell you and I actually we've had phone calls

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Speaker 2: about this. I've I've had my my challenges with alcoholism

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Speaker 2: over the past couple of years. I've been sober for

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Speaker 2: the last six months now, which I feel really good

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Speaker 2: and I'm proud about. And obviously I'm showing up in

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Speaker 2: better ways for my children and my wife, and obviously

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Speaker 2: within my business. I thought I had everything figured out

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Speaker 2: until I had some conversations with some people very close

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Speaker 2: to me. That made me realize, holy shit, Ryan, you

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Speaker 2: don't have things figured out. You may know a textbook

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Speaker 2: answer about what it means to be a man, but

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Speaker 2: are you actually being one? And truth is, I wasn't

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Speaker 2: being as much of a man as I could have been.

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Speaker 2: That's the reality. You know. I feel like I want

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Speaker 2: to do right. I feel like I want to do good.

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Speaker 2: I want to show up in powerful ways. But I

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Speaker 2: wasn't showing up the way that I could fully show

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Speaker 2: up until I was presented with this, you know, kicking

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Speaker 2: the nuts and I realized I had a long way

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Speaker 2: to go. And so for me personally, here's what I'll share.

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Speaker 2: For me personally, that began with putting the booze down,

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Speaker 2: Like just got you got to put the alcohol away

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Speaker 2: because it changes you. It changes who you are, it

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Speaker 2: changes how you show up. My wife and kids have

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Speaker 2: told me stories about certain experiences where I was drunk

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Speaker 2: where now six months sober. I'm like, what, Like, that's

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Speaker 2: what I said, that's what I did. That doesn't even

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Speaker 2: sound like me. And alcohol changed me. And you know,

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Speaker 2: my wife said something pretty telling to me the other day.

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Speaker 2: She said, you know you came back. You came back,

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Speaker 2: and so substance abuse is a real issue for men,

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Speaker 2: and I've explored why that is, and I'm still trying

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Speaker 2: to get to the root of why I turned to alcoholism.

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Speaker 2: But there were some things from my past that I

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Speaker 2: don't want to make sound bigger than they are, because

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Speaker 2: I know there's men that have dealt with significantly more

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Speaker 2: challenging issues I have. I'm talking about physical and sexual abuse,

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Speaker 2: none of which I was subject to when I was younger, fortunately,

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Speaker 2: but I really have some anger issues. I really have

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Speaker 2: some patience issues. I really have a desire to control

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Speaker 2: people because I have some abandonment issues, Like there's things

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Speaker 2: I didn't even realize I had going on, and it

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Speaker 2: wasn't until I put the booze away and started to

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Speaker 2: do some of this deeper work about where does my

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Speaker 2: anger stem from? Why am I trying to run away?

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Speaker 2: And what am I trying to run away from? And

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Speaker 2: these are conversations that men aren't having in their own

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Speaker 2: minds or journaling, and they're also not having them with

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Speaker 2: other men, which is interesting because the more so. I'll

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Speaker 2: give you one more story here when I told when

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Speaker 2: I decided I wanted to tell some people about what

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Speaker 2: I was dealing with with my alcoholism. It was for

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Speaker 2: our Iron Council, which is our band of brothers so

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Speaker 2: to speak. It's a mastermind type group within our organization.

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Speaker 2: And I decided I would let them know first, and

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Speaker 2: I recorded a video and told these guys. And when

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Speaker 2: I made the decision, I was pretty convinced that there

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Speaker 2: was gonna be a mass exodus from the Iron Council.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I had fully convinced myself that these guys.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to undermine my credibility and my authority with

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Speaker 2: these guys, and they're gonna think I'm a fraud and

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Speaker 2: a hypocrite, and maybe some of that I was. And

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Speaker 2: they're gone. But I decided, you know what, I really

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Speaker 2: want to get an integrity, and if I want to

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Speaker 2: be an integrity, I can't really worry about the result

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Speaker 2: of doing the right thing. Doing the right thing is

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Speaker 2: the right thing to do, regardless of the outcome. So

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Speaker 2: I made the decision to tell these guys via video,

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Speaker 2: and the exact opposite of what I thought would happen

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Speaker 2: is what actually happened. The men didn't leave. There was

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Speaker 2: a handful of guys who did, and they were upset,

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Speaker 2: and some of them had their own personal reasons for

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Speaker 2: being upset. Their fathers were alcoholics and they never came

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Speaker 2: to terms with that, and so that kind of got

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Speaker 2: piled onto me, which is understandable. But the overwhelming majority,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking ninety nine point nine percent of these guys

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Speaker 2: were supportive, positive, and I was flooded with messages. Ryan,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for sharing. I've dealt with alcoholism

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Speaker 2: for years. I've been struggling with this. I've been hiding

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Speaker 2: this from my wife. I've been hiding this from my kids.

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Speaker 2: It's been affecting my business, it's been affecting my health. Now.

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Speaker 2: Because I was actually willing to share some really vulnerable

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Speaker 2: struggles of my own, it gave other men permission to

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Speaker 2: share some of theirs. And men just aren't having these conversations,

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Speaker 2: which is why we bottle it up. We shove down

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Speaker 2: the emotions, we don't address the things that we're really

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Speaker 2: dealing with, and then it comes out. In the best

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Speaker 2: case scenario, it comes out in unproductive ways. In worst case,

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Speaker 2: it could come out in violent and dangerous ways.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you talked about drinking, and there's so much here, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that drinking is a way for

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Speaker 1: you know, people, but the men, to to obliterate any

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Speaker 1: sort of thought or reflection on certain problems that we face,

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Speaker 1: and and and and that's just how we you know,

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Speaker 1: we talk about self medicating, but that's just how we

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Speaker 1: ignore it. And when we ignore deep seated existential life issues,

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Speaker 1: they can manifest in into things that aren't great. And

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Speaker 1: how much, though, does society? How much is society to

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Speaker 1: blame for this Ryan because over the years, like we've

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Speaker 1: been inundated with you know, fathers who are betrayed and

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Speaker 1: even sitcoms as a buffoonish aloof father who's uninvolved and

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Speaker 1: it's just maybe a laughing you know, someone who someone

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Speaker 1: who's laughed at. You know, sure it does this this

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Speaker 1: sort of war on masculinity in our culture today, where

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Speaker 1: it's confusing for for boys to to muddle through life

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Speaker 1: to try to figure out what it means to be

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Speaker 1: a man. There's no doubt and there's there are so

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Speaker 1: many influence points in our kids' lives and the lives

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Speaker 1: of even you know, adolescents who are becoming men where

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Speaker 1: they're being influenced from a thousand different directions. And maybe

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Speaker 1: we're not as parents or as fathers, we're not aware

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Speaker 1: of what our kids are watching, so we don't know

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Speaker 1: the kind of person that they're becoming. How does society

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Speaker 1: play a role in men feeling scared, to feel vulnerable

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Speaker 1: and actually have these important conversations.

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Speaker 2: Well, the short answer is yes, but what does what

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Speaker 2: is society comprised of millions and bit well, billions of individuals,

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Speaker 2: So the short answer is yes, society plays a factor,

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Speaker 2: but the individual is just as culpable. Like if we

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Speaker 2: as men show up in more powerful ways for ourselves

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Speaker 2: and then we work as within the where we have

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Speaker 2: the most sphere of influence, so that would be ourselves, right,

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Speaker 2: we can completely control how we show up and behave

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Speaker 2: and how we think. And then it gravitates and it

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Speaker 2: migrates and gets bigger. From there into your family, your

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Speaker 2: wife and your children. Cannot completely control them, but certainly

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Speaker 2: have the most influence over them relative to anybody else.

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Speaker 2: Then it gets to your colleagues and your coworkers and

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Speaker 2: your employees. Then it gets to community members, then it

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Speaker 2: gets to state, then it gets to the federal level.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it both does and doesn't matter. And let

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Speaker 2: me explain what I mean by that when we say

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Speaker 2: that society paints men as bumbling buffoons and unnecessary and

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Speaker 2: toxic masculinity. When I say it doesn't matter, what I

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Speaker 2: mean by that is doesn't matter how society collectively paints men.

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Speaker 2: Here's how I am going to show up. I am

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Speaker 2: going to show up in this way, even if it

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Speaker 2: is odds with what I would call the doctrine of

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Speaker 2: popular culture would suggest. That's where it doesn't matter. Where

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Speaker 2: it does matter is one of the questions that I get,

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Speaker 2: probably daily at this point is what can we as

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Speaker 2: men do to change the tide of culture? And the

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Speaker 2: answer is change yourself. Now, I know that's not the

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Speaker 2: silver bullet. I know that's not the magical phrase that

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Speaker 2: you're looking for. There's no button I can go hit

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Speaker 2: on a wall that changes, you know, culture or society.

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Speaker 2: But if you do it, then you're going to teach

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Speaker 2: your son or sons to do it. If you do it,

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Speaker 2: then your coworker who really looks up to you, is

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Speaker 2: going to change as a result of the way that

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Speaker 2: you show up. If you do it and you're serving

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Speaker 2: on your school board, you're going to start to influence

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Speaker 2: other school board members. So we need to change ourselves first,

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Speaker 2: and we need to start enlisting the men around us.

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Speaker 2: If I can change and I can change five or

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Speaker 2: six guys around me, and they can change five or

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Speaker 2: six guys around them, and somebody like me and you

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Speaker 2: who can literally change the thought process and the perception

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Speaker 2: and action of thousands, tens, hundreds of thousands of people

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Speaker 2: because of the platforms that we've built. How amazing is

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Speaker 2: that it doesn't happen overnight. But we need to reject

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Speaker 2: the doctrine of popular culture and we now need to

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Speaker 2: replace it and infuse it with something better. A great

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Speaker 2: example of that is the public school system. We need

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Speaker 2: to reject what the public school system is teaching.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: It's not enough to say I don't agree with society

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Speaker 2: and culture, but let me go send my four kids

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Speaker 2: to be shepherded by these woke, horrible individuals. Like I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 2: do you really not like, let's really test what you're

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Speaker 2: saying here. You say you don't want your children to

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Speaker 2: be indoctrinated by the doctrine of popular culture, and yet

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Speaker 2: you ship your kids to school for five days a week,

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Speaker 2: eight hours every day. Well, right, it's hard, now, shit,

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Speaker 2: it's hard, of course, it's hard. My wife and I

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Speaker 2: we homeschool are children and it's hard. You know, they're

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Speaker 2: downstairs and I can see when my wife's working with them.

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Speaker 2: I can see the frustration that she has when one

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Speaker 2: of the kids don't get something. You know, she could

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Speaker 2: probably go out into the workforce and double our household income. Like,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that are harder, But we

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Speaker 2: don't believe in sending our kids to public school. So

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Speaker 2: is that just lip service or do we genuinely mean that?

431
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: And if we genuinely mean what we say, like, oh,

432
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 2: the school system's horrible, then you're not going to send

433
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: your kids to the school system. You're just not going

434
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: to do it. That's a that's an example of what

435
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 2: I mean. It's going to take sacrifice and work to

436
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: make change.

437
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: You're not kidding, you know. And because look society and

438
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 1: you talk about it being hard, like, yeah, it is,

439
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: it is. And I'll give you I'll give you a

440
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: personal example of what I mean. Ryan and I really

441
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: haven't talked about this at all, but you know, when

442
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: I came back from Afghanistan. You know, when you come

443
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 1: back from war, you struggle. I mean, war changes you.

444
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily look at that experience as a negative

445
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: in a negative light, right, Like I try to come

446
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: at those life experiences saying, hey, look, sometimes in life,

447
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: you have good experiences, you have bad experiences. It's up

448
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: to us to implement them, or it's up to us

449
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: and how we respond, right. And so part of the

450
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: way that I responded to coming back from Afghanistan was

451
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: throwing myself into helping other veterans men and women who've

452
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: come home from war and help them come back not

453
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: just to live in society, not just to survive, but

454
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: to thrive. And part of the way that I did

455
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: that was showing vulnerability, because I think leaders have to

456
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: show vulnerability every now and again to inspire the people

457
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: that have chosen to follow. And one of the ways

458
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: that I did that, I said, you know, look, I

459
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: came back from war. I struggled. It hasn't been easy.

460
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: I got help when I came back to help me

461
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: at least order my thoughts. You know, and you should too,

462
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: right is if you know and you know how tough

463
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: that is in the military, right, especially in the infantry,

464
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: where you're expected to handle horrific things and endure and

465
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: not show any weakness. Or any pain at all. Right,

466
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: And so if you want your soldiers to go get help,

467
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: you as a leader have to say, hey, I did

468
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: it too, you can do it. And I use I

469
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: built a charity and a platform on that like I suffered,

470
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: I've struggled, you should seek help. And then I find

471
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: myself in a family court system. Really, which if you're

472
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: a man and you find yourself trapped in the family

473
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: court system, it really is David versus Goliath on a

474
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: lot of different ways. And I went into that family

475
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: court system and I had that weaponized against me. You're

476
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: too broken, you're too fragile to have your own children.

477
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: And so when you talk about being the change that

478
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: you want to see in the world, society can really really,

479
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: I mean, you can get punished for that in a

480
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: lot of ways. And I see see how men sometimes Ryan,

481
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: because now that I've been listening to your podcast, I'm

482
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: super interested in making better men and raising better boys,

483
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: and just not to boys, just children. But I can

484
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: see and understand why men would not ever want to

485
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: talk about any of their problems, not show any sort

486
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: of vulnerability. But that catalyst for change in really growing

487
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: into better people is being able to talk about some

488
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: of the life struggles that you've had with other men

489
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,239
Speaker 1: to get better. You know, it's good for us. I mean,

490
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,719
Speaker 1: it's therapeutic, you know.

491
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: I know, I always feel better when I talk about

492
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: these things, you know, whether it's alcoholism or relationship issues

493
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: or whatever it might be. You know, I might not

494
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 2: even come to some conclusion or some answer to my

495
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: biggest problems, but just being able to hash some of

496
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 2: these out with guys who've been through similar experiences is helpful.

497
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 2: But then again, like I said earlier, it gives other

498
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: men a permission slip to do the same, and we

499
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: do need They don't need permission, but in a way,

500
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: they're waiting for it and waiting for it, and I

501
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: can help be that catalyst for change. What right do

502
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 2: I have to deny them my experience?

503
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, well what do you so? What do you make of?

504
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I didn't watch the Grammys,

505
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: I didn't see anything about I didn't watch it live.

506
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: But you see the way that pop culture influences are kids,

507
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: in the way that celebrities influence our children. And like,

508
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, I shared this like almost like this satanic.

509
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: It seemed like it was some damn Satanic ritual. Yeah,

510
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, like I thought like there's something First of all,

511
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: I think that that's boring. I don't think that there's

512
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: anything edgy about you know, being Satanic or or I

513
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: don't think there's anything creative about it, especially and age.

514
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: It's pretty sad exactly. But there was also something to

515
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: me that just didn't sit right. I mean, I'm a Catholic,

516
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not like you know, I'm a spiritual person.

517
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: I believe in a higher power. And you talk about,

518
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: you know, with regards to the Order of Man and

519
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: the movement that you've built faith, not necessarily a specific

520
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: religious faith, but faith in something greater than ourselves. Sure,

521
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, I believe in God. And there's just something

522
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: very wrong with a society that feels comfortable with grandiose

523
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: pomp and circumstance of throwing like basically giving the finger

524
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: to that higher power. And you know, I shared that

525
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: right like on Instagram, and some people were like, well,

526
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: why are you sharing it? Other people see this and

527
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: now they're watching it. But the thing is is that,

528
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: like that is true, and I understand that. But our

529
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 1: children sometimes are watching this, you know, they look at

530
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: they listen to this music. They idolize these people, Ryan,

531
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: and oftentimes I find myself asking the question, how influenced

532
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: by these people? Are they right? How much? What's my

533
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: role as a father and giving a diferent perspective to

534
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: my children?

535
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: So I've thought that too. I have conflicting thoughts. I

536
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: saw this performance so to speak, that you're suggesting, and

537
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: I've thought the same thing. You know, people share these

538
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: horrific things or these really outlandish social issues, and it's like, okay, yeah,

539
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: you're just you're just giving credence to the to that

540
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: side of the equation. So the alternative is then to

541
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: what ignore it? Right? But if you ignore it, like,

542
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: that's not going to solve any issues. So there has

543
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: to be a response. And I'm using that word very carefully.

544
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: You do have to respond. As men, we are called

545
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: to respond. We don't complain about things and then just

546
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: end it. We don't gripe and moan and bitch about

547
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 2: things that we don't like or that are inconvenient for us,

548
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: or we think are a danger or a threat to

549
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: our emotional, physical, mental, spiritual wellbeing. We don't just complain.

550
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: We respond. So we see issues with the world and

551
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: then we do something about it. So when it comes

552
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: to entertainment and media and all of these other things

553
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: that are actively working against our best interest, then it's

554
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: our job to respond by drawing attention to the issue.

555
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: And then this is where most people stop coming up

556
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: with something better, coming up with something better. So, for example,

557
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: if I don't want my children to be influenced by

558
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: what's happening at the Grammys, then I probably ought to

559
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: be doing something else with my children during that time.

560
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: You don't want them to be influenced by that music,

561
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: you don't want them to be influenced by entertainment or

562
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: that culture, Then what are you doing instead? And I'll

563
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 2: tell you what we were doing this last weekend. We

564
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: weren't watching the Grammys. We were in Salt Lake at

565
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: the Western Hunt Expo, and we were visiting with friends.

566
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: We were networking, We were forming connections with people that

567
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: we just met, people that we haven't seen for a

568
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: long time. We went and did jiu jitsu one night,

569
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: and we called up friends and had dinner every night

570
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: that we were there, and we were out actively building

571
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: connections with good and wholesome people to expand our network.

572
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: We had a couple of opportunities come up to go

573
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: hunting later in the year, one in Africa, and then

574
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: another friend that we asked if he would come hunting

575
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: with us. Like, we're out building these connections while other

576
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: people are just zombied out like a vegetable on the

577
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: couch watching the Grammy's being indoctrinated, even subconsciously by this

578
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: bull crap. So don't pretend like you care if you're

579
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: not willing to replace what you see wrong with something

580
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 2: that's better.

581
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: Wow, that's uh, I mean, that's that's that's powerful, man.

582
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: And I think the war is real, the cultural, the

583
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: spiritual war is real. It is real, and once you

584
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: see it, you can't unsee it. And and just today,

585
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: you know Senator Danes from Montana, I don't know if

586
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: you know him. He's the chair of the National Republican

587
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: Senatorial Committee. He had his Twitter account suspended because he's

588
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: a picture with his wife on a hunt.

589
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: You know, ridiculous.

590
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: It's it is, it is, And it just seems like

591
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: the deck in this country is so stacked against you know,

592
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: the traditional nuclear family, and and and the the kitchen

593
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: table issues that most that matter to most Americans, you know,

594
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: the cost of what things are at the grocery store,

595
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: or raising your children to understand, you know, that it's

596
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: important to get good grades and what it means to

597
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: lead and how to treat people. Right, it seems like

598
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: everything in our culture is diametrically opposed to that.

599
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: Well take that example, sean of food at the grocery

600
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: store and inflation and these things we see. We see

601
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: the big deal with eggs and everything else. Okay, so

602
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 2: that's a problem, right, everybody's identified that's a problem. That's

603
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: an issue. Show me your chickens. Well I don't have

604
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: I don't have chickens. Why well, I don't know. They're

605
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: hard to take care of and my hoa or what. Okay,

606
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: then you're not dealing with the problem like you're Oh, man,

607
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: I hate I hate living in a in this you know,

608
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: this concrete jungle and we're just stacked on top of

609
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: each other. Okay. Show me the offer that you made

610
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: on the house that gives you, you know, a few

611
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: acres and moving into the suburbs. Oh well, you know

612
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: I can't do that because my job and this and okay,

613
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: then stop complaining about it, like I'm not going to

614
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: fault you if if you say, hey, you know, I

615
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: like living here, I like doing this is my lifestyle.

616
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: I don't see anythro thing wrong with it. All the

617
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 2: power to you. But if you're complaining about it, show

618
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: me what you're doing about it. If you're worried about

619
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: food prices, show me your Hunter's ed certificate. Well, I'm busy, Okay,

620
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 2: then you don't care about it. That's it. Like or

621
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: or if you're complaining about food prices, let me see

622
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: your garden that you grow every year. Oh I don't.

623
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: I don't grow a garden. I don't really know where

624
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 2: to start, and I don't really bro. You can jump

625
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: on YouTube and you can learn how to plant tomatoes

626
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: in like thirty seconds. Okay, stop complaining if you're not

627
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: gonna do anything about it. That is my message of

628
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: today and that will be my message forever. I try

629
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: not to complain unless I'm willing to do something about

630
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: If we were talking about United, I had a bad

631
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: flight with United, What what are you gonna do about it? Well,

632
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 2: I'll tell you one thing I'm not gonna I'm gonna

633
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: do is I'm not going to book with United next time. Like,

634
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 2: I'm just not gonna fly with them like that, that's

635
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: doing something, that's a response. But some people don't even

636
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: do that. Oh well United has the best flight or

637
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 2: the best price, or you know, it gets me there

638
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: at the right time. Okay, then you don't care about

639
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 2: the issue, and that's fine, but don't pretend like you

640
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: do if you're not willing to do anything about it.

641
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: So, so a couple things just for people who are

642
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: listening and and perhaps watching this. You know, I'm here

643
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: and like, I'm taking lots of lessons from this, right,

644
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: Like be the change that you want to see in

645
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: the world, Live the change that you want to make

646
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: in the world.

647
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 2: Right.

648
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: But also when you say be a man of action,

649
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: is this what you mean.

650
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? You know, it's easy to get on

651
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 2: social media and complain about everything that's wrong. It's harder

652
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: to sacrifice. You know, again, I'll go back to homeschooling.

653
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: I know of so many families that want a homeschool,

654
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: and I know of quite a few who are making

655
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: some real sacrifices. They're selling extra vehicles, they're starting to

656
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: learn how to budget more effectively. They're getting rid of

657
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 2: subscriptions like Disney Plus and this, you know this, this

658
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: nonsense that they are subscribed to and they're saving money

659
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: so they can bring their wife home and she can

660
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: homeschool the kids, and she can finally step into what

661
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 2: a lot of women have actually wanted to do since

662
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: they were girls, but society said, don't talk about it.

663
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: You know, when I tell people that my wife is

664
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: a homemaker and a housewife, that that's frown like, so

665
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: many people frown upon that.

666
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, Ryan, It is so true, it's horrible,

667
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: and it is by far the most important job. I'man,

668
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: one of the most important jobs in the world. And look,

669
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, you know, it's not okay for

670
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: a woman to go out and work. I mean, obviously

671
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: we all have to chart our own path. But I

672
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: don't like the derision that women face when they say

673
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: they've made it that the path that they see in

674
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: their lives for them that makes the most sense for

675
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: them is raising good children and being in the home

676
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: and helping lead, because that is a very very difficult,

677
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: thankless job. And you know, I it upsets me when

678
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: people look at look down on women for making that decision.

679
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very frustrating. And you said it, you said it.

680
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: Well is, there's plenty of women, millions of women, who

681
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: want to go into the into the workforce, and char

682
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: chart their path that way. And that's fine. You know,

683
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 2: I'm never going to mock a woman who goes into

684
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: the workforce and decides that she wants to become an

685
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 2: attorney or a CEO or start a business or become

686
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 2: a school teacher or whatever. That's all great. I think

687
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: it's noble. I think it's ambitious, and I think if

688
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: a woman's interested in doing that, she should I would

689
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 2: I would have her consider the ramifications and the sacrifices

690
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: of doing that. But if she's considered that, then by

691
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: all the power to her, I would never mock her

692
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: for doing that. And yet there's a side of the equation,

693
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 2: the social equation, where they will literally mock a woman

694
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: for deciding to stay at home. They'll say, oh, you're

695
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: just you know that your husband's trying to keep you

696
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 2: under his thumb, or you just he just wants you

697
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: to be barefoot and pregnant. It's like, what a horrible,

698
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: horrible way to treat our mothers, who want to be engaged,

699
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: who want to be loving, who want to be nurturing,

700
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 2: who want to raise their kids in righteousness. We need

701
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: more of that, not less of that, and we could

702
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: certainly do without the mockery from both men and women

703
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,479
Speaker 2: for women who decide to stay at home and raise

704
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: their families.

705
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: There, So talk talk to me about Talk to me

706
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: about that, Talk to me about raising raising kids. And

707
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: when you what is at the forefront of your mind?

708
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: Because you've got you've got boys and you've got girl. Right,

709
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: you've got it.

710
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: You've got what you've got.

711
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: You don't talk about your daughter that much, and I

712
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: know why, but yeah, yeah, by design, So I don't

713
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: want to go too far into that. Fine, you've got both.

714
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: My point is you have both boys, and you have

715
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: you have you have sons and daughters, right.

716
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: Correct, three sons and a girl and a daughter.

717
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: Three sons and a daughter. What is at the forefront

718
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: of your mind? Because the order of man is not

719
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: just about being a good man, being good men, but

720
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: it's also about being a good husband, being a good spouse,

721
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: being a good father. What's at the forefront of your

722
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: mind when you're raising your children?

723
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 2: My so, this is my mindset, and then we can

724
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 2: get into the specifics. And you know, again, I'm trying

725
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: to figure it out. My oldest and fourteen, my youngest

726
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 2: is six, and they're all different. You say you've.

727
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: Got You're like running the gauntlet every day fourteen to six.

728
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the minute I think I have something figured out,

729
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: one of my kids throws a curveball at me, and

730
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know how to deal with that,

731
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: And I take the best thing I can. Sometimes I

732
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: connect and other times I just strike out miserably. But

733
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: there's a There's my motto is this My job is

734
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 2: to render myself obsolete. That's my job as a father,

735
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: period is to render myself obsolete. Is to put myself

736
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 2: out of work. If I have to be needed in

737
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: perpetuity by my children for all of their daily needs

738
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: and support and comfort and all of this kind of stuff,

739
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 2: then I'm not doing my job now. Granted, I understand

740
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: that the relationship will change over time. When my son,

741
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: my oldest son, who's fourteen now, graduates in the next

742
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: four years, I realize that that dynamic between us will change.

743
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: I will never be completely obsolete, at least I hope not,

744
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: but the dynamic will change. But the motto is render

745
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: yourself obsolete, meaning put yourself out of work. We need

746
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: to train our children and teach them in a way

747
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: that allows them to have capabilities, mindsets, skill sets that

748
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: they can go out into the world and tackle whatever

749
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: life has to throw out at them, regardless of whether

750
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: or not we're supporting them. I hate to see a

751
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: young man who's twenty five years old and he's still

752
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: living with his mom and his dad. I hate to

753
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: see that because he's limiting his potential. He's limiting the

754
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: potential to other people around him if we were to

755
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 2: actually go out and assert himself. And it's his parents' fault,

756
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: that's the thing. It's his parents' fault for not teaching

757
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: him what he needed to know. When I graduated, which

758
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: was in nineteen ninety nine, I graduated high school and.

759
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: Uh wait, wait, you're a year older than me. I

760
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: graduated in two I graduated in two thousand.

761
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: You did.

762
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I thought that you were way younger than.

763
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: No, I'm forty one too. Yeah, that's interesting. You thought

764
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: I was older.

765
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: I thought you were younger.

766
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: Oh younger, Yeah, no, I'm forty onnger.

767
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, sorry, go ahead, all good.

768
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: So, yeah, when I graduated, we went on our senior trip,

769
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: which is to southern California for I think there was

770
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 2: you know, twenty of us or whatever. And I came back.

771
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: I came back the next day. I moved out. And

772
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: it wasn't because I hated my mom or we had

773
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: bad or bad relationship, or there was animosity or contention.

774
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: It was none of that. It was she did a

775
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: pretty damn good job raising me to be independent. And

776
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 2: I felt like, hey, hey, I'm ready to go out

777
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: and do this. I'm ready to go out and tackle this.

778
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what I did. For better or worse.

779
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,479
Speaker 2: You know, I've had a lot of mistakes along the way,

780
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: but I never went home. My mom and I still

781
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: have a great relationship, but I never went home because

782
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 2: that's not my role. Now. My role is to go

783
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: out and build my own kingdom, make myself my own man,

784
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: and then of course raise a family and do the

785
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: same with them.

786
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: Do you talk to your kids about the mistakes that

787
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: you've made in your life? Leading I mean, because obviously

788
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, when you build your own kingdom, I mean,

789
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: there are battles to be fought in that process. You

790
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: win some, you lose some. Do you talk to your

791
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: children about those mistakes.

792
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean again, that's part of rendering yourself obsolete.

793
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 2: You know, if I want them to learn from my mistakes,

794
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: I don't want them to make the same mistakes. Yeah,

795
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: but if I'm not willing to share those things, how

796
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: easy it would it be for my sons and my

797
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: daughter to slip into alcohol abuse. Probably a lot easier

798
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: than somebody who has never had to deal with that issue.

799
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: You know, we know that they're even susceptible to it,

800
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: more so than other people. Because I am, so you

801
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: better believe that I'm talking with them about it. And

802
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 2: you know there's a beauty in that, and I'll tell

803
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: you what it is. It's hard because you have to

804
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: tell your kids you're not as great as they may

805
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 2: think you are. And they do. And so my two

806
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 2: oldest boys know about my alcohol abuse. My two youngest

807
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: don't because it's not appropriate at the age they're at

808
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: right now. But as they get older, we will have

809
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: those discussions. Some of the hardest things were for me

810
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 2: to have to share that with them, and it may

811
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: have devalue or trying to think about the right way

812
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 2: to say it, may have deflated the way they feel

813
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: about me. It may have not knocked me down a

814
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: notch or two, but you know what, that's more important

815
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: to me than hiding it and pretending it doesn't exist

816
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: and them having to learn those mistakes on their own.

817
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: But what they're going to see now is they're going

818
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: to see man who's fall fallen, and they're going to

819
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: see him get up, dust himself off, stand up, and

820
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: get back in the fight, a better man than he

821
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 2: was before. And they're going to witness that in real time,

822
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: which is going to be a very very powerful lesson

823
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: for them.

824
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: I think so too. I mean so because life is

825
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: inherently imperfect. Yes, you know, I tell my kids, you know,

826
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: look like life. If you life is like a book,

827
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, beginning, middle, and an end. Right. Some of

828
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: the chapters of that book are good, some probably not

829
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: so much. But it's your job to turn the pages

830
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: as enthusiastically and vigorously as possible and learn lessons along

831
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: the way. Some chapters are going to be pretty shitty,

832
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: but that's just life. I think it's important for I mean,

833
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: we talk about so much of what we're talking about,

834
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: Ryan is is men like being open, upfront and honest,

835
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: almost vulnerable. Now by the way. That doesn't mean crying

836
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: your beer all the time and playing you know, the

837
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: victim card or woe is Me like, because you're talking

838
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: about being vulnerable, but a critical component of that is

839
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: also being a man of action, right, So being a

840
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: man of action, like you're not crying in your beer,

841
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 1: You're you're not just complaining without a way to make

842
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 1: the situation better.

843
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: Right.

844
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 1: So two of those things seem like a major theme

845
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: of what you're talking about.

846
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: And there's let's talk about vulnerability for a minute, because

847
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: there is a big movement in society to be vulnerable. Yes,

848
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: and what I see all too often is it's vulnerable

849
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 2: for the sake of being vulnerable, and then you win

850
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: points for being vulnerable. But let's use that. Let's use

851
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: the military. I mean, you and I are both in

852
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: the military and both served. We had vulnerabilities in our defense,

853
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 2: for example, whether it's base defense or or the way

854
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 2: that you know, if we're talking about a thousand or

855
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 2: two thousand years ago, maybe there was a weakness in

856
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: the wall of the castle, right, that was a vulnerability,

857
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: and we actively look for those vulnerabilities in the military. Okay,

858
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: where are we weak? Where are we susceptible. Where are

859
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: we vulnerable? And we do that for one reason alone.

860
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 2: It's not to cry about it. It's not to complain

861
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 2: about it. It's not to wallow in it. It's to

862
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: fix it. Right, It's to recognize that our defenses are

863
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 2: weak right there. Maybe we ought to put different troops there,

864
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 2: Maybe we ought to spend some time building up that wall,

865
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: maybe we ought to fortify that position. But the point

866
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: of being vulnerable is to expose weaknesses in order to

867
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: address them. But modern culture is no just be vulnerable

868
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 2: and cry and you know, all over yourself and babble

869
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 2: like a bffoon like that's not it. The answer is, hey,

870
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: you know what, alcoholism. That's a vulnerability. That's that's a

871
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 2: weakness of mine. And so I to put some systems

872
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 2: and processes in place to keep myself from that temptation.

873
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 2: One is we don't have alcohol in the house. Another

874
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 2: one is I got to avoid the stores where I

875
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: would go to get drinks. Like, there's a lot of

876
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: things that I put in place to shore up my vulnerabilities.

877
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: That's the complete package, not just the first half of it.

878
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you that you differentiated that because

879
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: so much of oh, let men need to be more

880
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: vulnerable or people need to be more vulnerable. It's just

881
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: straight up virtue of signaling bullshit. What's out most of

882
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: the action step to shore up what you're vulnerable about,

883
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: vulnerable about in the first place, to make yourself better.

884
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 2: And on that note, when if I could just interrupt

885
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 2: real quick. Sure. So when I started talking with my

886
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: guys about this alcohol abuse, it was months after I

887
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: had gotten sober, and I didn't It wasn't the first

888
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: thing I did, as I went and told them, Hey,

889
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: I'm an alcoholic, here's me. That wasn't the first thing

890
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: I did. The first thing I did was I stopped

891
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 2: drinking for a couple months, and I started going to meetings,

892
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: and I started to put the systems in place, and

893
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: I got myself clean and sober. And then I went

894
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: to them. And I did that because I didn't feel

895
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: right going to them and complaining about something that was

896
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 2: a struggle in my life that I wasn't actively working

897
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: on fixing in the moment. So I wanted to have

898
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: a couple of months under my belt of clear actions

899
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: that I had taken to get me to the point

900
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 2: where I was sober so that when I went and

901
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: told them, I was able to say, guys, look, this

902
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: is an issue I deal with. This is something I've

903
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: been struggling with for a couple of years. And here's

904
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: how I'm fixing it. And here's the path that I'm

905
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: on right now, and here's what I'm doing. It's a

906
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: much more powerful position than simply complaining and crying about

907
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 2: things that are wrong in your life.

908
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: I agree, I mean, so let's talk about that for

909
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: a second. Today you put something out about the importance

910
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: of routines and the power that routines can have in

911
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: our lives. You were away for a while, you got

912
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: back to the gym, back in your routine. You said,

913
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: you feel better. It's funny that you put it's funny

914
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 1: in and also slightly ironic that you put that out

915
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: because I think about I had just been thinking about

916
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: the power of routines, both as being like a professional

917
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: husband father. Routines can also be bad, right, unhealthy, and

918
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: drinking might be one of them. Right when you look

919
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: at like, hey, I live, Hey, look this is what

920
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I'm gonna wake up in the morning,

921
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the kids to school, I'm gonna go

922
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: to the gym. I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna read, write,

923
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 1: reflect journal, and then I'm gonna work my ass off

924
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: at whatever mission that I put myself behind that day.

925
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 1: And then i'm gonna put my phone down. We're gonna

926
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: have dinner together as a family. I'm gonna talk to

927
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: talk to the kids, be present for the kids, be

928
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: present for my wife. Then you know what, I'm just

929
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna pour a drink. Right, And that's just

930
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: in that routine of pouring a drink, as innocuous and

931
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: as benign as it might seem. If that, if you're

932
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: a routine person, right, so you just having a drink,

933
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: one drink every night, every night, every night, every night,

934
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 1: might be the maybe that becomes too It can become

935
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: an unhealthy routine pretty quickly.

936
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 2: Right, We as humans get really good at the things

937
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: that we practice. So if you practice drinking as I was,

938
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: I was getting really really good at it, you know,

939
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 2: and then I was getting and then I didn't want

940
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 2: people to know because I was ashamed, and so I

941
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: started to get pretty good at hiding it, which only

942
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: exacerbated the problem because the people closest in my life

943
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 2: didn't know the full weight of what I was dealing with.

944
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: Therefore they couldn't help me tackle it because I was

945
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: hiding it. These are and here's the interesting thing about

946
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 2: negative routines. We know when we're doing something we shouldn't

947
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: be doing. Maybe it's gambling, maybe it's womanizing, maybe it's pornography,

948
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: maybe it's drug or alcohol addiction. We know, and yet

949
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: we still do it. Why do we do it when

950
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: we know it's bad because we're getting something from it,

951
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 2: like there's some benefit from it. I love drinking because

952
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 2: I could tune out and not have to worry about

953
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 2: anything challenging for several hours, right And when I stopped drinking,

954
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 2: I claimed three to four hours a day. I hate

955
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 2: to admit that, but three to four hours a day

956
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 2: when I was either drunk, getting drunk, or with a hangover,

957
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: passed out or a hangover. Three to four hours every

958
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: single day that I recaptured. And at first it was

959
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 2: challenging because I had to figure out what to fill

960
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: that time with. What do I do? And so there

961
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: was a big list of projects around the house I

962
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 2: wanted to get done, and my business became a lot

963
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 2: more efficient and productive, and I was able to spend

964
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 2: more time with my kids. But yeah, routines can make

965
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: or break you, you know, and you ought to evaluate

966
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 2: your routine and ask yourself if it's something you know

967
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be doing. The first step is to ask

968
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: yourself what are you getting out of it? And for me,

969
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 2: it was getting out of having to address hard and

970
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: challenging emotions that I was dealing with.

971
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: How did you break it? How did you? Because you know,

972
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: it's not easy to break a routine. It's not easy

973
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: to start hard to routine either. If it's if you're

974
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: out of shape and you're trying to go to the gym.

975
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: There are probably one thousand and one reasons why you

976
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: would avoid go to the gym. Oh, it's not convenient.

977
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: I don't like that, i don't like the feeling of

978
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: the gym. I'm not comfortable there, I don't know how

979
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: to do the exercises, how people look at me, weird, whatever.

980
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: So it's hard to start. But once you get going,

981
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: and once you're in a routine, you feel good about it,

982
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: maybe it's hard to stop.

983
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: How did you?

984
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: How did you break that routine of drinking more than

985
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 1: you would like, how did you how did you stop

986
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 1: doing that?

987
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so I'm going to challenge a little bit

988
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: of what you said. You said it's hard to start

989
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 2: something else or stop something. It's actually not. It's it's

990
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: really not. And I think we need to be careful

991
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 2: of continuing to paint things as challenging when they're not. Like,

992
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: if you make a decision, make a decision, it's not

993
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: as hard as you're making out to be. And what

994
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: I think we do when we say it's hard is

995
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: we're already giving ourcelf excuses to slip. So we got

996
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 2: to get rid of that. Now, I will say it's

997
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 2: more challenging to maintain it, because look, everybody's stopped drinking.

998
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: Like I stopped drinking every single day. I stopped drinking

999
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 2: every day. I stopped drinking, and then I would start

1000
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: back up the next day. So it's not hard to

1001
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 2: stop ring. It's hard to sustain it past that critical point.

1002
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 2: And there is a critical point where it's like I

1003
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 2: got this. Now, I'm into a routine and I don't

1004
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: know what it is, but I can tell you that

1005
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 2: for me, it's a routine when it feels foreign not

1006
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: to do it, like I don't know if it's twenty

1007
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: one days to a routine or thirty days. I don't

1008
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 2: know what the magic number is. I just know that

1009
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: I feel a little bit off when I don't do it.

1010
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: So going to the gym wasn't something I was regularly doing,

1011
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 2: but I've noticed that over the past I would say

1012
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: about eight weeks now, very very consistent. I'm talking six

1013
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 2: days a week without exception, even on vacation. This last

1014
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 2: trip on Salt Lake, I missed one of my workouts

1015
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 2: and it felt weird. I felt off, and that to

1016
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 2: me indicated that it was a routine. But to answer

1017
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 2: your question about how do you how did I stop?

1018
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: Here's how you stop when the pain of stopping. All right,

1019
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: let me say it this way, when the pain of

1020
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: continuing is greater than the discomfort of stopping. When the

1021
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 2: pain of continuing and I'm when I'm talking about pain,

1022
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the consequences of it. M h. You know,

1023
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 2: losing loved ones, potentially getting loved ones hurt, or even

1024
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: yourself hurt. When the pain of that is greater than

1025
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 2: the challenge and the struggle in adversity of not engaging

1026
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 2: in that behavior and the pain became so great through

1027
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 2: some conversations that I had that I realized, oh boy,

1028
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 2: this is more serious than I thought. And I think

1029
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: changing is going to be easier than dealing with the

1030
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 2: pain of continuing this behavior.

1031
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: I mean, was the changing easier for.

1032
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: You looking at it now with being sober, Yes, one

1033
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: hundred percent. One hundred percent. Even if, even if things

1034
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: don't work out the way that you want, engaging in

1035
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 2: the right behavior or in this case, disengaging in incorrect

1036
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: behavior is one hundred percent always the right thing to do.

1037
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: And so my life moving forward will be infinitely better

1038
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: and probably longer. I probably won't be dead and get

1039
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 2: people killed in the meantime.

1040
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's it's fascinating when you know,

1041
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: you talk about routines and it really not being challenging

1042
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: to start something right. You just do it. You don't

1043
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: allow yourself to have a mental dialogue or a fight

1044
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 1: internally about whether or not you're going to do something.

1045
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: Be decisive, just do it, and then once you commit

1046
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: to it, don't stop.

1047
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 2: Well, I would say Sean on that. One thing is,

1048
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 2: you know how we often fight against the things we

1049
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 2: know we should be doing. Why not instead decide to fight,

1050
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: but fight for the right things. So if I'm if

1051
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: I get up in the morning and I want to

1052
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: sleep in, I will start to fight about sleeping in, like, oh,

1053
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: I deserve it. I just got back off vacation and

1054
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 2: not I'm busy today and I got ketch up and

1055
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: you know I haven't seen my kids. Like those are

1056
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: that I'm fighting not to engage in behavior I want to. Well,

1057
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 2: why not just fight for the right behavior. So instead

1058
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,760
Speaker 2: of fighting against it, say, you know what, I should

1059
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: go to the gym because it makes me better. Father.

1060
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 2: I should go to the gym because I know when

1061
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 2: I'm done, I feel better. I should go because I

1062
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 2: like to put a little check mark in my daily

1063
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 2: task that makes me know that I actually did something.

1064
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 2: I should do it because I like the way that

1065
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: I look when my shirt's off and I can see

1066
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 2: that my biceps are getting stronger. So I should do that.

1067
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 2: So you can keep fighting. Just fight for the behavior

1068
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 2: that you want to engage in, or fight against the

1069
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: behavior you don't want to engage in. Just fight for

1070
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 2: something else.

1071
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 1: It is so true, man, And it's like when you

1072
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: when you think about routines, like like for me, It's like,

1073
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, brush my teeth a couple times a day.

1074
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: I don't think about doing it. I just do it.

1075
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: It's become a part I mean, you know, and it

1076
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: would if you didn't, for both me and everybody else

1077
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: around me. Yeah, I mean, it's true. I want my

1078
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: routines to get like that where I'm not even fighting,

1079
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm just doing right. I might even have it, you know.

1080
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: So Okay, So what is so what's next for for

1081
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: Ryan Mickler? I know you've got the Masculine Manifesto, You've

1082
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: got what's next for the Order of Man, You've got

1083
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: these retreats that you're doing now, and you've got this

1084
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: amazing community of hundreds of thousands of people now that

1085
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: that are a part of it. You talk about the

1086
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: importance of being a man of action, and you talked

1087
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: about the importance of deeds and not words. What's next

1088
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 1: for you?

1089
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: So I would love to have a good answer and say,

1090
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: we have all these amazing things coming up, but you

1091
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: know what I mean again, to be vulnerable and to

1092
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 2: address this to make sure it serves other people. The

1093
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: last six months have really have really shown me that

1094
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: I've built a lot of my life on sand a

1095
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 2: faulty foundation, and for me, it's really about shoring that

1096
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: up first, like you know, deconstructing a lot of what

1097
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 2: I've built, whether it's relationships or the business, and not

1098
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: tearing them to the ground, just deconstructing, taking a look

1099
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 2: at where they need to be shored up, and then

1100
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: building the foundation. And for me, the foundation is built

1101
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: upon God number one, and then upon my actions that

1102
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: are in alignment with with His desires for me. So

1103
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 2: I can't say that I'm going to build this huge,

1104
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 2: you know, empire and I have this event and that event.

1105
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: This I'm really in a stage right now of my

1106
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: life where I'm evaluating where the foundation is faulty and

1107
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 2: how I can shore that up because I know I

1108
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 2: can't go further with my relationships, with my business, with

1109
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,919
Speaker 2: my health until I build up that foundation. So very

1110
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 2: spiritually centered right now, trying to be anyways and trying

1111
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 2: to align my own behaviors and thoughts with that spiritual perspective.

1112
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's you know, it's hard to serve others

1113
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,959
Speaker 1: when your own life and I'm not saying this about

1114
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: you is not an order right right or right. It

1115
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: might be in disarray in some places and that those

1116
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: places need your attention more than looking outward.

1117
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 2: I had a mentor won't say to me. He said.

1118
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: This stuck with me forever, and it's been so powerful.

1119
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: He said, Ryan, you'll be successful. Actually, let me give

1120
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 2: some context. When I was starting my financial services practice,

1121
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 2: but I was really really struggling at the time, and

1122
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 2: the way I viewed myself was better than the way

1123
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 2: I was actually performing. So there was a disparity between

1124
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 2: the way I saw my performance and what it was

1125
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: actually producing. And I just didn't know why I was struggling.

1126
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 2: I couldn't figure it out. And he came to me

1127
00:59:58,000 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 2: and he said, Ryan, you know, I know you want

1128
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 2: to be successful, but this is what you need to know.

1129
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 2: You'll be successful when you learn to light yourself on

1130
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 2: fire and allow other people to watch you burn. And

1131
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 2: that just, man, that just stuck with me forever. It's

1132
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 2: about for me anyways, about taking all of my life

1133
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 2: experiences and my challenges and my struggles and the things

1134
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 2: I'm doing well and lighting myself on fire, basically illuminating

1135
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 2: myself so that other people can watch, can learn, can

1136
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: be inspired by it, can be motivated by it, can

1137
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 2: see what they need to see in order to do

1138
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 2: the same thing in their lives. And that's how I

1139
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 2: view my responsibility with my children. I got to illuminate

1140
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 2: everything about myself so they can see it and they

1141
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 2: can learn and they can grow from it. And that's

1142
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 2: where I'm at right now, is I want to do that.

1143
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 2: I want to illuminate all of that, not only for

1144
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 2: my own growth, but for the benefit of other people.

1145
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: No doubt.

1146
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 2: Uh.

1147
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: The Order of Man will benefit the community that you've

1148
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: built will benefit from from that, from everything that you're

1149
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: doing now, building a stronger foundation, but also showing them

1150
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: how to do it, you know. And so you know, I,

1151
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm grateful that you've came on today.

1152
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 1: I want to be respectful of your time. I could

1153
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: talk to you all day man Likewise, you know, if

1154
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: you're watching or you're listening, you know, go to the

1155
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: Order of Man dot com. Subscribe to what Ryan's doing,

1156
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: Grab his book, The Masculine Manifesto. If you feel so inclined,

1157
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: sign up for the Iron counsil It's really really good stuff.

1158
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 1: It will make your life better, make you a better man,

1159
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: make you a better father, make you a better husband.

1160
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:42,959
Speaker 1: Ryan thanks, brother.

1161
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 2: I appreciate you being appreciate you, you know, more so

1162
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 2: than that, and I want to I do want to

1163
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 2: share this because I want people to know the kind

1164
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 2: of man you are is you know, we've done I

1165
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 2: think three or four podcasts now, including this one. Uh,

1166
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 2: but we've also had a bunch of conversations via text,

1167
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 2: via phone call. And obviously I'm not going to get

1168
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 2: into private details of what the things I've shared with

1169
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 2: you because that I want that to remain private. But

1170
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 2: I just want to tell you I really appreciate your friendship.

1171
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 2: I know how busy you are, I know how many

1172
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 2: people are probably clamoring for your attention, and for you

1173
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 2: to be able to take time out and talk with

1174
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 2: me and counsel me, man, that really really means a lot.

1175
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 2: So I appreciate our friendship and your guidance.

1176
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate our friendship very much as well, and

1177
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: I look forward to continueing to build on it, man,

1178
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: And thank you all that you've for everything you've done

1179
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: for me with this podcast. And yeah, here's brother, the.

1180
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 2: Podcast is going to be awesome. I'm stoked for you.

1181
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see what you do with this

1182
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 2: thing again. It's all about illuminating all of this stuff

1183
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: so it can serve other people. Yeah.

1184
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: Thanks Ryan, I appreciate your brother.

1185
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1186
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: Take care all right, everybody that is a rap I

1187
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed my conversation with the great Ryan Mickler.

1188
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe

1189
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts and go subscribe to my

1190
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: YouTube channel two, where you will have access to more

1191
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: exclusive content. And if you feel so inclined, go to

1192
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: Order of Man dot com sign up for the Iron Council,

1193
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: become a member, join something, and serve something greater than yourself,

1194
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: because Ryan Mickler is the real deal. He's an incredible

1195
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: human being. And as always, ladies and gentlemen, thank you

1196
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: for your time. God bless you all, and God bless

1197
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: this amazing country that we live in. Thank you.

1198
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: Take care,