1 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: When my daughter Caroline was three, she started ballet lessons. 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: She loved it. She was also pretty. 3 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: Good at it, and eventually she got a role for 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: the Nutcracker and Honey. 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: She practiced every day. 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: She would sometimes make everybody in the family play a 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: different role so that she could do her part. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 2: Over and over. 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: As we got closer to the big performance, she began 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: to realize this wasn't going to be at her studio. 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: She was going somewhere else on a stage in front 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: of a bunch of people. She was a little shy, 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: so one thing that happened is she was like, I 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: just don't know, that's a lot of people. 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 2: And I don't want to be on that stage kind 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 2: of thing. 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: Well, her brother Huck said, hey, maybe I can be 18 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: one of the soldiers and I can be on stage. 19 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: With you and then you won't be afraid. 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: So Huck tried out to be one of the soldiers 21 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: and he was picked to be the soldier that rolled 22 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: the cannon out and fired it. So Caroline was thrilled 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: that she was going to have her safety net with her, 24 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: and Huck, of course was thrilled because he and his 25 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: words got to blow something up. Huck would sometimes get 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: a little bit of ribbon from friends because he stayed 27 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: in the Nutcracker with her for several years, and as 28 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: he got a little bit older, he would tell the 29 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: boys that. 30 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: Were giving him a little bit of the business. He'd say, look, it's. 31 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: Me and thirty girls and they're all backstage changing costumes. 32 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: And then he would say, and you know what, I'm 33 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: going to be the mouse king. And that's the role 34 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: that Tupac had. Tonight, Kathy Scott is with us. She 35 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: not only was a New York Times bestselling author, she 36 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: was an LA Times bestselling author. Now, Kathy and I 37 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: first met and became fast friends because we both wrote 38 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: for Women in Crime, Inc. Then we met in person 39 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: at Crime Con. She has a legendary photo. It's her 40 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: and E f Lee Bailey and some other people. And 41 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: the reason I love this photograph so much is I 42 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: took it, and every time I see it, I get 43 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: so frustrated because I'm like, dang it, I wish I 44 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: was in that picture. But taking it was pretty cool, 45 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: I gotta say. And when we took on Tupac's case 46 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, literally her book became our bible. It 47 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 1: is to date the most in depth investigative book on 48 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: Tupac's murder. 49 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 2: That I've ever read. 50 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: I was headed to Vegas in twenty fifteen because I 51 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: needed to be at the crime scene, to walk it, 52 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: to understand it, to really see it. But Kathy had 53 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: already moved to San Diego. But she is one of 54 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: those people that continued to help me with cases like 55 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: Drew Peterson, Mayor Lanski, Frank Klatta. 56 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 2: And of course Tupac Shakur. The students revere her. 57 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: The experts admire her, and I have the great fortune 58 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: of her being my friend and somebody in my zone seven. 59 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: And I will tell you as a friend, she wrote 60 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: a fabulous biography on me which I am forever indebted. So, 61 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, Kathy Scott. 62 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for a warm introduction. Cheryl, and 63 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 3: I am happy to call you friend as well and 64 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: happy to be here on your podcast. 65 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: Well I'll tell you, baby, this case, this case, to me, 66 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: has so many just roads that spiral out from it. 67 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got the music industry, and not just 68 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: the music industry, but gangs to wrap at a time 69 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: where a lot of people weren't really fans and law 70 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: enforcement was still trying to understand it because a lot 71 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: of the music was directed negatively toward them. 72 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: You got gangs, you got. 73 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: The bloods and the crips. You've got drugs and drug sales. 74 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: You've got lawsuits, You've got homicides, high profile homicides. How 75 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: in the world did you first get into this case? 76 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: With your phone ringing about two in the morning. 77 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: I was a reporter at the time at the Las 78 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 3: Vegas Sun. I covered police. I had, you know, with 79 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 3: the police beat was was mine and uh we had 80 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 3: a we had a night police reporter as well. But 81 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 3: I got a call from a source inside the homicide 82 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: unit at about two o'clock, as you said, in the morning, 83 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,799 Speaker 3: who said, get up wrapper two packshacker because they couldn't 84 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 3: pronounce Tupac Shakora. They at that point don't even know 85 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 3: who he was, And so I had it. I threw 86 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 3: in some clothes and grabbed my reporter's notebook and headed 87 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 3: down to the Las Vegas Strip. And I've been covering 88 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 3: the case ever since. 89 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: Now. At that time, again, law enforcement could not even 90 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: pronounce his name correctly, but they knew enough. Your source 91 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: knew enough to call you out of bed so they 92 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: knew it was going to be pretty important, right. 93 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, well they I mean they knew that that it 94 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: was a rapper and he was a big deal, and 95 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 3: so they knew they knew that much. Plus it was 96 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: such a I mean it was a drive by shooting 97 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 3: and ended up with the cars on the Las Vegas Strip, 98 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 3: and he was giving me heads up to go cover 99 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 3: a crime, and so I did. You know, I'm forever 100 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: grateful for that, and the who will remain nameless source 101 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 3: who called me on that night and early morning, and 102 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: then it was just kind of crazy. After that, there 103 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 3: was a news conference and I went to that and 104 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 3: that there was a Bruce sald and Mike Tyson fight, 105 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 3: which is why Tupac was in town and why the 106 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: Cryps gang members in town. So that's why Tupac was 107 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 3: driving in the car after the fight headed down to 108 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: a club to perform. But you know, the fight, it 109 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 3: was all hyped up. It was you know, Mike Tyson 110 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 3: knocked out Bruce Selden in one hundred and nine seconds 111 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: and Tupac was just if you you see the video 112 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 3: of him. He was interviewed just after walking out of 113 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 3: the Grand Arena, all hyped up. I mean he you know, 114 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 3: Bet interviewed him, and so that's the mood he was 115 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 3: in when they went down to get out of the 116 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 3: MGM and saw Orlando Anderson from Compton standing at the elevator, 117 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 3: and that's when the whole whole beat down happened. 118 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: Well, let's go back a second. 119 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: When were you first aware of the shooting from nineteen 120 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: ninety four. 121 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: Ninety four was when Tupac got shot at the Quad Studios, 122 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 3: right crap, that was the impetus for the East Coast 123 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: West Coast rap war. So Tupac was really good friends 124 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 3: with Biggie, and Tupac was bigger than Biggie at that point. 125 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: Chupac he used to invite Biggie on stage, so so 126 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: they became friends. They he'd go to you know, I 127 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: interviewed Biggie's mother, Valletta Wallace. I interviewed the guy who 128 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: hired Biggie Smalls at his grocery store when he was 129 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 3: twelve years old, and his son was best friends with 130 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 3: him even as an adult. And Tupac would take his limo, 131 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: have his limbo driver, go into Bedside, you know, New Jersey, 132 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: and pick up Biggie and his friend and go down 133 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: to Manhattan and party, and so they were. They were 134 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: good friends. You know, Tupac was apparently a little gulli 135 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: ball when Chupac got there and everybody was waiting for him. 136 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 3: Biggie was there, you know, he was recording his uh record. 137 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: Producer Sean Combs was their p ditty and backup singers. 138 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: Tupac was there and a different thing. But they all 139 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 3: knew that the others were going to be there. So 140 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: everybody's waiting. They're looking out the windows looking down at 141 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: the street for for Tupac to get there. And this 142 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: was in Times Square, but it was midnight, you know, 143 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 3: so it's not too crowded. So Tupac and the guys 144 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 3: he's with, once his cousin, they are loaded with gold, 145 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: gold necklaces, you know, gold bracelets, just gold all around them. 146 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 3: And they're walking, you know, down this dark street Quad 147 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: Studios at midnight and they and I've been to Quad 148 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 3: Studios twice, and they walked into the lobby no video 149 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: camera on. There was a camera, no video tape in it, 150 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: and some guys dressed in cami, unarmed walk in and 151 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: just rip off all the jewelry from Tupac Tupac had 152 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 3: a gun in his waist belt and he reached for 153 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 3: it and he fired it before pulling it out and 154 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 3: shot himself in the growing. So he had to go 155 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 3: to the hospital, but he went upstairs first. It wasn't 156 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 3: a bad injury. You know. He's in a wheelchair. The 157 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 3: next day had to appear in court and he went 158 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 3: to prison the next day. Tupac, once he was in prison, 159 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 3: someone told him, hey, Biggie set you up. Biggie set 160 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 3: you up. He's the one who got those guys Acquad 161 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 3: Studios to steal your jewelry. And he believed it and 162 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: from then on now that is that is what started 163 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 3: the East Coast West Coast racing. 164 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: September seventh, nineteen ninety six, Tupac Shakur is shot and 165 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: killed in a drive by shooting. He's in the black 166 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: BMW driven by Sugar Knight. From death Row records. Well, 167 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: it was pretty clear that traditional investigative techniques weren't going 168 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: to work here because you had every single witness and 169 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: every single victim taking the street code. Like even when 170 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 1: law enforcement asked Tupac who was conscious? Who shot you? 171 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: He looked right at the man and said. 172 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,239 Speaker 3: F you if you believe him. Took that ex officer 173 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 3: seventeen years to say that and to come out and 174 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 3: say it. And also my question is I knew that 175 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 3: Shude Knight and a police officer had pulled Tupac from 176 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 3: the car. The car was not on fire. It's not 177 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 3: like I have to pull pull somebody out of a 178 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 3: car wasn't on fire. Nobody was shooting out them because 179 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: he had already gotten away from the shooters, so they 180 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 3: were they kind of opened the door all the way, 181 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 3: but they opened it partially and pulled him out. Question 182 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 3: to that former officer was do you think you injured 183 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 3: his chest more? Because he died of a chest injury, 184 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 3: do you think you did further damage to him when 185 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 3: you yanked his body out of that car. I just 186 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: think that's the least proud thing I would talk about. 187 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 3: But I'm just saying. 188 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: Now there's a convoy of like ten cars. They had 189 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: been to the Tyson fight the NGM. Then there was 190 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: a fight at the hotel that included Orlando Anderson who 191 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: went by Baby Lane. Now there's a video, it's a 192 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: famous video of Tupac and Sugar Night punching and kicking 193 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: Orlando Anderson. 194 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 3: True and now say yeah, it's an infamous video. It 195 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 3: was interesting when that video came out because the police 196 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 3: did not release that video. It was lenked from someone 197 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 3: at the hotel to a media outlet. 198 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: Now that's another thing that I want to talk to 199 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: you about. I've been to Las Vegas more than once, 200 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: and people always talk about how many cameras are everywhere 201 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: because there's just so much cash, money and poker chips 202 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: and everything else around. When I went to that intersection, 203 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: and again it was years after, but I standing there 204 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: could see multiple cameras. 205 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: How is this murder not captured on film? 206 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 3: Well, Las Vegas has kind of impacted then especially has 207 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 3: kind of been behind the times. But in nineteen ninety six, 208 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: there were no video cameras at that intersection. You know, 209 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: we have the video from the MGM grand of course 210 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 3: inside the casino for that beat down, but that's because 211 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 3: they're trying to prevent any crimes from going on in 212 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: you know, and it's because it's a casino. There's lots 213 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: of money around. But no, there weren't any cameras. So 214 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: that those came later. 215 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: It would have saved a whole lot of time and 216 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: a lot of heartache and a lot of lawsuits and 217 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: a lot of other killings, especially today. 218 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 3: You know, I didn't even have a flip phone at 219 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: that point I had. I had a radio, you know, 220 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 3: it's just what I used, you know, for the to 221 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: file my story from the hospital. And we were the 222 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 3: first to release that Tupac Shakor had died from you know, 223 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 3: in the Las Vegas son article that I filed from 224 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 3: the scene that was on a radio to the news 225 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 3: desk that had a radio, and I wrote it in 226 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 3: my reporter's notebook and then and then I called it 227 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: into the desk. They typed it up, made it live, 228 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 3: and about two hours later, the breaking news of Tupac's 229 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 3: deaths went worldwide and shut down our website. 230 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: Well, you were also the first reporter on the scene. 231 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: You saw the black BMW sitting there with tape still around. 232 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 3: It, right, and some CSI people were still there, and 233 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 3: it was just very, very eerie. And then a photographer 234 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 3: and I the next day went to the I think 235 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: we went in like noon or something in the afternoon. 236 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 3: By then the car was gone. We went to the lot, 237 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 3: you know, the police yard where the car was being held, 238 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 3: and he kind of climbed half the fence so that 239 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: the photographer could get a photo of the BMW there 240 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: in the yard. Metro police weren't talking to outside reporters. 241 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 3: The sergeant is always the main person to speak with, 242 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: not the not the two detectors. It's a three man 243 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 3: on a side team. The head sergeant, you know, heading 244 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 3: the investigation, wasn't picking up his phone or returning calls. 245 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 3: And so I had reporters right and left calling me 246 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: because I was writing about it in the Las Vegas 247 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 3: and so they're very frustrated that they weren't getting anything 248 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 3: from the police department. It was quite different. And they 249 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 3: also at their news conference was cut probably two days after, 250 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 3: maybe three days. I think it was a Monday after 251 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 3: and all the sports writers of course, were all and 252 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 3: TV people were all assigned to the story, so they 253 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 3: were everybody converged. And I remember it was on grass 254 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: behind homicide. It's since relocated to someplace else, to another building. 255 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 3: The sergeant he read the news release and then turned 256 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: around and walked away, and he looked like a deer 257 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,359 Speaker 3: caught in headlights. Didn't take any questions from any reporters. 258 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: How could Tupac get shot? Four times twice in the chest, 259 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: and should Knight kind of just have a little frapnel 260 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: to me when you think about the passenger in your 261 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: car trying to get away, trying to move, trying to 262 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: get in the back seat, he basically shielded Should he did. 263 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 3: I've said that all along, you write, Cheryl, he shielded him. 264 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: Tupac was oliver trying to get out of the get 265 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 3: in the back. It was too small and it was 266 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 3: kind of a sporty BMW and plus he was shot, 267 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 3: so you know, it's time to be able to move around. 268 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 3: Of course was limited, as you know, he lost blood. 269 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 3: But but if you look at he's sitting sideways and 270 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: the way they shot, they shot into the car door 271 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: right straight into his side, and then you know you 272 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: can see some of them may did blew out the windows, 273 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 3: but he did get should knights still in his neck. 274 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: There's a piece of shrapnel from a bullet in his 275 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 3: uh the base of his skull, top of his neck. 276 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: And he was taken to the hospital with Tupac and 277 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: Shug was held overnight in the hospital, which would have 278 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 3: been a good opportunity for Metro police to go interview him, 279 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 3: and they did go to the hospital, but they went 280 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 3: later in the day and Shug had already been released. 281 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 3: You know, just that's one more one more missed opportunity 282 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 3: in my book. 283 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 2: Well that's a big missed opportunity, no doubt. 284 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: KVD and Orlando Anderson are both Southside Compton crips, but 285 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: they are also related. 286 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 3: Yes, kif D is Orlando Anderson's uncle, and at the 287 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 3: time of the shooting, Orlando was living with his uncle 288 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 3: kif D, who was a higher up in the in 289 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 3: the street gang crypts at that time. And there was 290 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 3: you know, a couple of weeks I forget the timeline, 291 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 3: but a few weeks later there was a gang roundup 292 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 3: and Umpton pde the gang cops who I've talked to 293 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 3: them at length and met with them several times, and 294 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 3: they contacted Metro Police Department that they would be doing 295 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 3: a gag roundup in that Keefy D's house where Orlando lives, 296 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: the shooter. They would be raiding his house and they 297 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 3: would hold him for them to they would detain him, 298 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 3: not arrest them, detain him so that Metro Police could 299 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: interview him. So a detective with Metro Police went to Compton, 300 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 3: I don't know talk about weather with Orlando, but they 301 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 3: did not interview him about the case. 302 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: So a lot of people are accepting pretty quickly that 303 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: Orlando Anderson had something to do with it. Being the 304 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: KVD had access to a weapon, they were, you know, 305 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: probably not going to allow him to have a beatdown 306 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: like that and not retaliate in some way. I agree 307 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: with you that talking to some of these people quickly 308 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: might have stopped some of this. But Orlando Anderson is 309 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: killed two years later in an unrelated crime. 310 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: I guess he's. 311 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: Going to collect some money from a drug deal and 312 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: he gets into a shootout and he's killed. So now 313 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: you have the primary suspect dead, you can't prosecute him. 314 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: Sug Knight's not talking obviously, Tupac has been murdered. And 315 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,959 Speaker 1: then we go down the road a little bit. You 316 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: look at this history where Tupac blamed Biggie for the 317 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four shooting. You've got all this East coast, 318 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,479 Speaker 1: West coast happening, and then Biggie Smalls is murdered. 319 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 3: It was a domino effect for sure. Biggie was killed 320 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 3: six months after Tupac. That's not as easy to you know, 321 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,719 Speaker 3: break down. But with time. You know, there's an Alford David. 322 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 3: You may have read it, Soileatta Wallace su the LAPD 323 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 3: for not solving her son's murder. In it, they say 324 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: that Biggie Smalls from jail from prison, this guy David Mack, 325 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 3: who's an ex cop, former gang member. He goes to 326 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 3: prison to talk to Shug Knight, and Suge Knight has 327 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 3: Mac tell their buddy Harry Billups who's known as Mohammed, 328 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 3: to kill Biggie Smalls. When you know, Biggie Smalls was 329 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 3: murdered outside the Peterson Peterson Automotive Museum. I went there afterwards, 330 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: talked to the security people, and they security people, they 331 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 3: had lots of cameras, but nothing reached the street because 332 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 3: I talked to them directly. But anyway, so Biggie Smalls 333 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: is coming out with p Ditty and all their backup 334 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: singers and whatnot, and they're headed out out the parking 335 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: lot which is covered to the sidewalk outside and long 336 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 3: comes this vintage car. Someone opens fire on the car 337 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 3: that Biggie is sitting in, and you know, raditat tat 338 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 3: like Bonnie and Clyde, and he's all shot up. And 339 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 3: then that I think it wasn't in Paula and the vintage, 340 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: and it takes off Gues's what Harry Phillips had in 341 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: his garage and named Paula. That LAPD decided not to 342 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: prosecute that case. 343 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: And you know, speaking of filing lawsuits, Tupac's mom she 344 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: filed a lawsuit against Orlando Anderson in ninety seven, and 345 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: then Orlando Anderson filed one against death row records. I mean, 346 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: it's just like this whole thing, so much was made public, 347 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: so much was put on paper, so much. 348 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: Was you know, catalog for folks. 349 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: I mean, this to me would be something that you 350 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: would study if you were investigating this case. 351 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 3: And I did. I come through everything. It was interesting 352 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: because I was on a beet program with a Fanny 353 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: chikor tupax mom, and you know I had put the autopsy, 354 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: you know, we had decided to put a copy of 355 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 3: the autopsy photo in in the book. And that's also, 356 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 3: by the way, part evidence right now. And then the 357 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 3: cover of our book, the last photo of him taken 358 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 3: uh taken alive is evidence as well because it shows 359 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 3: how they were seated in the car. I was on 360 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 3: be et with her and somebody said, you know, she's 361 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: probably going to be upset with you, you know, because the 362 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 3: autopsy photo. She was very gracious to me, and a 363 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 3: Fannie was not about Tupac's death. She was all about 364 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 3: his legacy. She was she you know, she filed smaller 365 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 3: suits and got court orders from people not to sell 366 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: her son's likeness or sell his music so she could 367 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 3: keep you know, trying to keep it all the same. 368 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 3: But she was different the Latta Wallace. Her whole purpose 369 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 3: was get whoever killed him, and that has been her 370 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 3: life's pursuit for Biggie. So it's interesting two different women. 371 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 3: You know. I always say Tupac was his mother's son. 372 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 3: She was more introspective and as was Tupac. And Tupac 373 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: was so intelligent and such a poet and had away 374 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 3: with words, and obviously his mother had to be smart 375 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 3: to get herself self out of a murder charge is 376 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 3: pretty incredible. 377 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: So then in twenty eighteen, there's a beet interview with 378 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: KVD where he admits being in the front seat and 379 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: the shooters in the back seat and he had missed 380 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: a hand in the shooter or a gun. Well, to me, 381 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: at that point, your suspects go to two people, because 382 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: there's four people in the car and there's two people 383 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: in the back seat. 384 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 2: So we're down to two. 385 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: And if you think of the relationship, one being his 386 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: nephew that was just beaten and kicked, then we're down 387 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: to one exactly. 388 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 3: And yeah, the other two people who are in the 389 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 3: car or dad, one of them was killed the next 390 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: day and shoot out in Compton because of Blood's and 391 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 3: the Crypts. You know, the Bloods went after the Crypts 392 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 3: in retaliation the next couple of days for two bucks 393 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 3: killing the Bloods. Did the police work for him? Took 394 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 3: one of them out, but not the police would kill him, 395 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 3: but took one out. But yeah, you've got two suspects. 396 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 3: And Keithy d I mean you not only say it 397 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 3: and you know, on a show, but you put it 398 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 3: in your own book and you write it down that 399 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 3: you got the gun and handed it to the government 400 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 3: who happens to be your nephew. And now there's a 401 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 3: little bit of oh no, it wasn't Orlando who did it. 402 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 3: It was you know, this guy next to him, because 403 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 3: Orlando didn't have a good shot will he did, And 404 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 3: I don't believe that for two seconds he was bragging 405 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,479 Speaker 3: about it. Orlando was on the street bragging about it. 406 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 3: The Compton PD, with their intelligence, they went to went 407 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: to Vegas and talked to Metro Police and laid it 408 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 3: out as Orlando being the killer, no one else. And 409 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 3: they had all the names of everybody in the car, 410 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 3: including KEEFD that was handed to Metro police in nineteen 411 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 3: ninety six. You know, justice is sometimes I'm delayed, but yeah, 412 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 3: this is as good a case as you can get 413 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 3: because you've got the guy who is a well, he's 414 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 3: not an accessory to murder because when you provide the 415 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 3: weapon in Nevada anyway, that becomes murder one. So he's toast. 416 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 3: And my understanding is I was on a radio show 417 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 3: with a retired lieutenant who says he believes that they're 418 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 3: going to try to plead plead him out so he'll 419 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 3: get instead of life in prison, maybe twenty five point 420 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: thirty something like that. They're going to try to plead 421 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 3: him out instead of going to trial. We're down the street. 422 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: Don't know if it's true, but. 423 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: You know, when you write a book, a tell all book, 424 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: and refer to yourself as the Compton Street legend, you're 425 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: almost begging for somebody to come after you. 426 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: In one way or another. 427 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 3: Well, absolutely, it's like, come on here, I am, you know, 428 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 3: wide open. And then and then what's up with moving 429 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 3: to Las Vegas. I mean they probably had him under 430 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 3: surveillance the second he moved to Las Vegas. I mean, 431 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 3: let's return, not only return to the scene of the corn, 432 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 3: let's move there. I mean it's and I don't know 433 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 3: that had Keef d been in La Still, the Metro 434 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: Police would have had to work with the LAPD because 435 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 3: he was would have been a resident of La Still. 436 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: So I don't know that that Metro police would have 437 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 3: prosecuted it. Being right there in Henderson in the back 438 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 3: backyard of Las Vegas. It was a slam dunk. And yeah, 439 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 3: you can you know you can't. You can't keep people 440 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 3: from themselves, show. 441 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: Amen, because you know they're taking computers and cell phones 442 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: and hard drives, tubs of photographs, they've got, of course 443 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: his book, and then they've got forty caliber bullets. Are 444 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: you telling me he kept that kind of item that 445 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: they're going to be able to connect to that murder? 446 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: Well, he had a block and it was either a 447 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 3: forty or forty five. The bullets, and they did get 448 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 3: they did pull a block out of the house of 449 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: Keithy D's when they were back in ninety seven whatever 450 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 3: it was when they did a raid gain raid and 451 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 3: his house was included and came back inconclusive. But as 452 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 3: you know, inconclusive doesn't mean that that wasn't the bullet. 453 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: It just means that the bullets that came out in 454 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 3: Tupac's body were all mangled and you couldn't match them up. 455 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 3: But my understanding is they returned that gun to him 456 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 3: because nobody was arrested, and so you know, I don't 457 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: know if that they didn't list a block as being 458 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: part of the evidence, but the fact that he's got 459 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 3: that caliber bullets that fit a block is hard evidence 460 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: as well. So he's I believe he's toast and he's 461 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: going to go to prison. 462 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Well, your book, the Killing of Tupac Shakur, it doesn't 463 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: just set the bar, it is the bar. 464 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: I mean, it is so in depth and you have everything. 465 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: You have dates, times, interviews, names, badge numbers, people, photographs, 466 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: autopsy photographs. 467 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: I mean, you have it all. 468 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: And I know that when this broke you might not 469 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: have been shocked by the who, But you might have 470 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: been a little shocked that it's finally actually happened, because 471 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: you and I have talked about this case for a 472 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: long time, And why in the world somebody's not in 473 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: prison when you've got people out there admitting it, you 474 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: got people filing lawsuits because they know who did it. 475 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: You've got other people killing other people because they know 476 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: who did it. I mean, it's just one of those 477 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: things you're like, how can people have been killed in 478 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: revenge and you not know when they know? And then 479 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: mama's filing a lawsuit because she knows it. Shouldn't have 480 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: taken his book. 481 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 3: That's true. They knew it all along, and there was 482 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 3: a lack of Daysico attitude. And they'll argue with me 483 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 3: about it, but I was there, and there's a lack 484 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 3: of Daysico attitude when the game, when the when the 485 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 3: head of the investigation, the sergeant comes into his office 486 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 3: that day and turns on his recorder, you know, because 487 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 3: we had message recorders back then on our phones and 488 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 3: there were three hundred messages and most of them from 489 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: reporters from across the world. And he turns off that 490 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: recorder and doesn't return calls. Is that someone who's looking for, 491 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 3: you know, solving it. So America's Most Wanted to me 492 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 3: and America's Most Wanted came to Las Vegas Police. And 493 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 3: this may have been in ninety seven or so. I 494 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 3: could have been a year or two or three years 495 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 3: after they went to John Walsh with Americas Most Wanted 496 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 3: went to the Metro Police Department to have the sergeant 497 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 3: or a detective on the case to go on the 498 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 3: show or at least be in the studio after they 499 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: do their peace and Metro Police Department declined to participate. 500 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: But even the Compton Police went to Las Vegas to help. 501 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: And you know, Sean Puffy Combs knew that Should Knight 502 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: was after him. I mean, that wouldn't have shocked anybody. 503 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: And then when Sean Puffy Combs had a friend, Jake 504 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Rubli is killed in Atlanta, I know the APD was 505 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: trying to say, hey, can we help connect anything. I mean, 506 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,719 Speaker 1: this isn't a stretch. Everybody should have been working together. 507 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: Everybody was kind of saying the exact same thing at 508 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,479 Speaker 1: the exact same time, and it was just like no 509 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: action was ever taken. 510 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 3: I asked cops a bunch of times, you know, what 511 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 3: why aren't they doing it? And there's one thing that 512 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 3: you probably know with all your years of working with 513 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 3: different police department and being a member of a police department. 514 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: They keep their cases close to their vests. They don't 515 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 3: always share. Now they may share a federal case overlap 516 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 3: lapse and they have to, but they're a little selfish 517 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 3: sometimes when it comes to sharing, you know, and for 518 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 3: a good reason probably, But so everybody was keeping their 519 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 3: knowledge of the cases close to the vest, and nobody 520 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 3: worked together to try to solve it. But in the 521 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 3: Metro Police Department, according to the game cops out of 522 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 3: Compton who Bobby Ladd was one of them and Tim 523 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 3: was the other who is now gone. And I wish 524 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 3: Tim were here for it too. But they were frustrated 525 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 3: and called me, what's going on? You said, Vegas wasn't 526 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 3: interested in any of the intelligence they wanted to give 527 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 3: them from the street, and they were right there. They 528 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 3: knew exactly what was going on. Had Tupac been killed 529 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 3: in the drive by shooting in Compton, that case would 530 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 3: have been solved immediately. 531 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: In La Well, y'all, we're going to have to have 532 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: Kathy's got back. As we get closer to Citen Center 533 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: whatever is going to happen in conclusion with this case, 534 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: so we can walk through more of where it started 535 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: and where we are now. 536 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 3: I would be happy to be back on and as 537 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 3: things solidify in Las Vegas and hopefully we'll see some 538 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 3: action in La with the Biggie Small's case, so I'd 539 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 3: be pleased to be on. Thanks so much, well, Kathy. 540 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for being here with me 541 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: all these years, working on numerous cases, and you know, 542 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: giving your time and talent every time. I just appreciate 543 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: you and I am so grateful you're in my Zone seven. 544 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 3: It's my pleasure. Thanks so much. 545 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:13,959 Speaker 2: Well, y'all. 546 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I 547 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: always do with a quote. I miss my son every 548 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: day a little bit more, but I thank God every 549 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: day for every second. 550 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 2: He was here. A Penis Shakur. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and 551 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 2: this is Zone seven.