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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. Welcome into my podcast that only

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Speaker 1: covers ball basketball. That's right, it's the All Ball Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks much for downloading, subscribing, and rating us. If you

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Speaker 1: rate us, I'm told it helps us. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: do it. We have a tremendous guest. He's an assistant

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Speaker 1: coach with the Portland Trailblazers. He's been part of the

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City Thunders front office. He's been an assistant coach

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Speaker 1: in Russia as well. And he was a player and

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Speaker 1: Roch played in the NBA a little bit. It's a

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Speaker 1: great player at St. Bonaventure's named David Vanderpool. You've heard

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Speaker 1: seen his name as a candidate for several head coaching jobs.

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Speaker 1: He's yet the land one. We'll ask him about it,

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Speaker 1: but um, before we get to his incredible story and wait,

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Speaker 1: do you hear David Vanderpool who he got called up

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Speaker 1: from the A B A. He's playing for Kevin Pritchard

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Speaker 1: in Kansas City gets called it from the A B A.

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Speaker 1: Wait do you hear the twenty seven NBA games he played?

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Speaker 1: Why he didn't play as well as he wanted to play?

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Speaker 1: I mean, no one actually plays as well as the

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Speaker 1: one no one, no one ever goes like you know I,

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Speaker 1: I completely killed it right there, which is not the

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Speaker 1: way most people are wired. Anyway, I have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of things to get to. Let me start with some

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Speaker 1: college basketball news. Juwan Howard is a new head coach

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Speaker 1: in Michigan. Now there's a bunch of different ways you

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Speaker 1: could go there. If you'd listen to me in the past,

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Speaker 1: you know that I am a proponent of the college system.

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Speaker 1: I am because I think that the player, even the

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Speaker 1: successful one, benefits far more so than the university ever could.

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Speaker 1: And the greatest example of that is the Fab Five.

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Speaker 1: The Fab Five did not win a Big Ten regular season,

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Speaker 1: there was no Big Ten tournament back then. They did

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Speaker 1: go to to final fours, they did not win an

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Speaker 1: nb n c A championship, and yet because of you know,

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Speaker 1: the act they started five freshmen, because of the length

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Speaker 1: of their shorts, the coolness of their jerseys and the shoes,

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Speaker 1: and frankly, how good they were. Think about it now.

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Speaker 1: Chris reb Webber is one of the premier announcers covering

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Speaker 1: the NBA, and I think a lot of that, A

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Speaker 1: lot of that is how great a player he was,

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Speaker 1: but at least a portion of it is the fact

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Speaker 1: that he was a member and probably the most talented member,

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Speaker 1: the Fab Five. Jalen Rose is ESPNS lead NBA studio analyst.

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Speaker 1: Jans had a good NBA career. He's a great guy.

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Speaker 1: He's an awesome guy to be around. It's funny, he's interesting,

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Speaker 1: he loves the sport. But let's be honest, Jalen Rose

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Speaker 1: is most known for his time with the Fab Five.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you bring back a head coach who

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Speaker 1: has made if you go back and remember he signed,

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Speaker 1: it feels like the first hundred million dollar deal. But

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Speaker 1: you bring back a coach who is known, among other things,

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Speaker 1: and maybe mostly for being part of the Fab five.

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Speaker 1: Like I I actually think this really helps cement my

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Speaker 1: argument that all the promotion, all the acclaim that you

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Speaker 1: receive during your time in college, it's gonna benefit you

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Speaker 1: in and out of your sport for a hundred years

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Speaker 1: if you lived that long. And the five Fab five

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Speaker 1: who have you know, people use this argument to the

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Speaker 1: Fab five was getting paid. You know, they had guy

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Speaker 1: paying them to go there, you know, Jalen Rose and

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Speaker 1: some other guys to go there. Whatever, Like even though

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Speaker 1: they weren't doing it the right way, and you'll have

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Speaker 1: people say, you know, they should have been able to

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Speaker 1: new use their name and likeness, and they can for

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Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. They can sell shirts, they

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Speaker 1: can write a book. They had their thirty thirty, they

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Speaker 1: can collect off of the two years they spent in college,

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Speaker 1: the Fab five and Mr in And by the way,

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Speaker 1: Michigan benefits from having the Fab five being played there.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's also a dark side to it.

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Speaker 1: The banners did come down. They weren't able to have

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Speaker 1: those guys on campus until recently. And like any like

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Speaker 1: any former student at Michigan, they're gonna ask you for

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Speaker 1: money and they're gonna promote all your successes. So he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten the job had he not gone to Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Now can he make it work? Of course he can.

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Speaker 1: Big ten is a coaches league. I mean, you have

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Speaker 1: some amazing basketball coach net league and it's not thought

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Speaker 1: of as a cheaters league. And you're at Michigan. Now,

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Speaker 1: you're coming off of a crispy, clean, perfectly run program

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Speaker 1: by John b. Line. And while you may not have

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Speaker 1: had as much success recruiting top twenty five or top

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Speaker 1: fifty kids. It hasn't mattered because the bottom line is,

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Speaker 1: over the past couple of years, they've had an immense

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Speaker 1: amount of success in the Big Ten, in the Big

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Speaker 1: Ten Tournament, in the n c A tournament, and putting

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Speaker 1: guys in the NBA draft, which is all you're fighting for.

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Speaker 1: So will you want Howard work? I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: think Michigan was a little backed into a corner a right,

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Speaker 1: Like I love Laval Jordan's and he's a former assistant there,

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Speaker 1: a class guy, uh and he's coaching at his alma monitor.

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Speaker 1: But I would also tell you that, you know, because

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Speaker 1: there were no African American head coach in the Big Ten,

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Speaker 1: and because yeah you had from Lebron James to Chris

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Speaker 1: Webber to Jalen Rose, anybody who's Michigan saying like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Juwan Howard has been an assistant coach, Like even for

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Speaker 1: Ed Cooley, who has had a crazy amount of success

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Speaker 1: at Providence, Laval has only been to one n c

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Speaker 1: A tournament. You know, it felt like it would have

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Speaker 1: been a disappointment if you would have hired those guys

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Speaker 1: for Michigan a lums and for Michigan's fan base so

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Speaker 1: the people got what they want and now we find

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Speaker 1: out if Juwan Howard can put together kind of staff

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Speaker 1: and land the type players established a system that goes

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Speaker 1: along with a very the and well run culture at Michigan.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to see. I frankly, I hope it

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Speaker 1: works and I hope he learned from some of the

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Speaker 1: mistakes of others. UM Michigan State's rolling. Ohio State has

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Speaker 1: bounced back in recruiting. UM. I do think I UM,

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Speaker 1: I think I was gonna be really, really good this year.

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Speaker 1: I think Indiana has kind of bottomed out in terms

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Speaker 1: of their success. Although now of a sudden you're you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not just losing your best freshman, you're losing your

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Speaker 1: best veterans as well. They haven't yet hit Minnesota's got

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Speaker 1: good young talent. It's gonna be a challenge and doing

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Speaker 1: it doing it the right way really hard. It's not easy,

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Speaker 1: but can. What Juwan Howard needs to do is legally

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Speaker 1: use the same connections that he has with the university,

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Speaker 1: all the people that he knows, all the NBA players

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Speaker 1: and front office people that he's touched during his long

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Speaker 1: career to help him. And you know, his son's a

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Speaker 1: very talented sixteen year old player. To to help him

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Speaker 1: get into the right homes and make the right evaluations,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to hire a really good staff, the coaches,

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Speaker 1: the basketball I have no doubt that he can do it,

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Speaker 1: none zero, reallyting the kids, no doubt that he can

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Speaker 1: do it. He has a kid of his own, he

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Speaker 1: was a player once. He's not too old, and and

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Speaker 1: and because of his success in his time in the

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Speaker 1: NBA is an assistant coach and as a player, they

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Speaker 1: will they will listen if he is dedicated, and I

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Speaker 1: have no reason to believe he's not, he'll listen to it.

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Speaker 1: But evaluating the right players, playing the right style that

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Speaker 1: fits your personnel, understanding how to practice, how to work

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Speaker 1: you know, how to get kids to improve, how to

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Speaker 1: get kids that buy into what you want, and getting

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Speaker 1: guys that will stay. It's gonna be fascinating to see

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Speaker 1: how it plays out. I know we operated on the

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Speaker 1: system that this thought that NBA guys generally haven't worked out,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of them have not. In spite of

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Speaker 1: the fact that Chris Mullin got fired, has anybody besides

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Speaker 1: me pointed out they did make the n S a

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Speaker 1: tournament this year, Right, That's that's kind of remarkable that

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Speaker 1: we deem it to be a complete failure when it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a complete failure. They got better every year and

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Speaker 1: this year they read the n c A tournament. Was

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Speaker 1: it good enough for him to maintain his job by

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Speaker 1: their estimation? No, I don't believe that was a complete failure.

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Speaker 1: Clyde dreck, sir, that was a failure. The story about

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Speaker 1: Clyde Jackson was, and I shared it on Twitter yesterday,

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Speaker 1: was that his first game as coaching, Clyde was never

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Speaker 1: seen as that hard a worker when he's with the

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Speaker 1: Dream Team. The story of the Dream Team was if

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Speaker 1: you go back and remember there were people that thought

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Speaker 1: Clyde was creeping up on Michael Jordan's that he was

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Speaker 1: getting close to being at Michael Jordan's level, and between

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Speaker 1: when they faced off in the finals and when they

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Speaker 1: faced off in Dream Team practices, Michael Jordan let everybody

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Speaker 1: know who the best player on Earth actually was, who

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Speaker 1: the best to gird on Earth actually was. But but

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Speaker 1: Clyde was the guy who you know, Now we react

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Speaker 1: and we're like, well, Christian Lightner shouldn't have been on

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Speaker 1: the team, and should John stock him down under? Should

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Speaker 1: Isaiah Thomas had been on? Of course, Isaiah and Jordan

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Speaker 1: had beef way back when. But the guy who by people,

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Speaker 1: I know, his estimation shouldn't have been on it based

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Speaker 1: upon how how seriously he took it, how hard he practiced,

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Speaker 1: how much it mattered to him. Was Clyde to glide.

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Speaker 1: But Clyde showed up at seven oh two to his

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Speaker 1: first game as college head coach at Houston. One of

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Speaker 1: his assistant coaches, he asked him what time's game time?

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Speaker 1: He said seven oh five, tip, and he strolled in

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Speaker 1: at seven o'clock. He walked down the court at seven

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Speaker 1: oh two when they're introducing the teams, you know, like

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Speaker 1: something out of it like that was the manager from

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Speaker 1: a league of their own, Jimmy Dugan stubbling out. That's

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Speaker 1: you know, he was sober. Clyde was sober. But it's

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Speaker 1: the same kind of idea, that's not we have what

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Speaker 1: you want, Howard coaching in his own university. A guy

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Speaker 1: who's put in the time as assistant coach in the

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Speaker 1: NBA wants the job. But there's a lot to coaching

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Speaker 1: in college. There's boosters, there's grades, there's recruit. There's younger player,

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Speaker 1: there's development of younger players, there's finding a staff that

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Speaker 1: knows how to evaluate the right kind of kids that

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Speaker 1: you can get. You can't get everybody, I mean, unless

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Speaker 1: you're Penny Hardaway and or your Kentucky. You can't get everybody.

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Speaker 1: So you gotta get you gotta recruit kids that you

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Speaker 1: can get. We'll be fascinating because the last time Michigan

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Speaker 1: was down, really down, that's in Michigan State. First pop

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Speaker 1: back up. I remember there was a car accident with

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Speaker 1: I think that Robert Trailer's grandma supposedly owned Afford Explorer,

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Speaker 1: and that was during the teen Cleves visit to Michigan.

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Speaker 1: But Teine Cleves goes to Michigan. This Michigan State thing,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it if it happens to the level,

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Speaker 1: let it's happened, So be fascinated. Michigan takes a year

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Speaker 1: or two to get it going. What happens to the

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Speaker 1: rest of the teams in that league. There's no reason

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Speaker 1: it can't work, but you better surround people, surround yourself

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Speaker 1: with people who know how to make it work, have

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Speaker 1: complete buy in, and be willing to learn. I think

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Speaker 1: you will let's find out. Be sure to catch live

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Speaker 1: editions of The Doug dot Leap Show week days in

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Speaker 1: noon eastern three pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app. All Right, we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to Dave Vanderpool in a second. Um, I want to

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Speaker 1: say this in regards to the NBA. First, regards to

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Speaker 1: the All NBA team, I don't know when they voted

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Speaker 1: for these? Did they vote mid season? Because Paul George

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Speaker 1: being first team on NBA, once he got hurt, he

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Speaker 1: was not the same player, whereas Kevin ND played seventy

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Speaker 1: eight games and I thought he was better. I thought

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Speaker 1: he was a complete player. Paul George complete player as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: his three point percentage was slightly down, but if you

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Speaker 1: watch the last month of season, he wasn't stat padding.

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Speaker 1: He was trying to be a really good teammate. A

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, that's how he played. Early in the

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Speaker 1: Clippers series before uh you know, people questioned him and

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Speaker 1: he said, remember I'm Kevin Durant, which was basically like,

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Speaker 1: oh you don't they can score. Fuck you watch me

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Speaker 1: score forty five points. So I don't understand people's I

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Speaker 1: guess that the the amount of victory all towards Kevin Durant, like,

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Speaker 1: all right, he left Oaklahoma City, went to Golden State,

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Speaker 1: and he proved that he was better than Lebron in

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Speaker 1: the last two NBA finals, and then he's been he

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Speaker 1: was great this year. But if if you remember back

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Speaker 1: to start the playoffs, why isn't he scoring more? And

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Speaker 1: then he goes, f you, I'm gonna score forty five

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Speaker 1: a game, and he does, and he's carrying the team

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Speaker 1: while the other guys aren't shooting as well. And then

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Speaker 1: he gets hurt and they beat Portland, who's overachieved, just

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Speaker 1: to be honest, overachieved, and they survive against Portland, you know,

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Speaker 1: three great comebacks, unbelievable performance against Houston game six, and

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Speaker 1: suddenly it's like, yeah, they don't really need Kevin Durant.

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Speaker 1: And then this comes out where he's not first team

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Speaker 1: All NBA, Like what are we doing here? He's the

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Speaker 1: best player in the damn league. And I think Clay

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Speaker 1: Thompson does have a point like we're we've gotten to

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Speaker 1: the we've gotten this place where And part of it's

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Speaker 1: how the CBA has written where you can't get a

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Speaker 1: Super Backs contract unless you're on the All NBA team.

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Speaker 1: Are you are off being on the All NBA team.

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Speaker 1: You get more money if you stay in a with

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Speaker 1: a bad team and put up huge numbers, then you

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Speaker 1: do if you if you're on a great team and

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Speaker 1: you put up really, really really good numbers, and and

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Speaker 1: I get that, Max Kellerman, and I'm just as good

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Speaker 1: asy as anybody like you can't. Max said on his

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Speaker 1: show that James Harden shouldn't be First Team on NBA

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Speaker 1: because you should count playoffs because the playoffs are two

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Speaker 1: months long. I think there's a remedy for it. There's

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Speaker 1: a happy medium. You could either do m v P

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Speaker 1: and and count and have it count everything, or you

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Speaker 1: could do it like in in any tournament you play,

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Speaker 1: and where you have an all tournament team, you know

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Speaker 1: you have an All NBA team, and then you have

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Speaker 1: an All NBA Playoffs team. Maybe that's the way to

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Speaker 1: do it. But if we're going to do regular season

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Speaker 1: as the cut off for awards, there's no way James

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Speaker 1: Harden's not on that list. But I also think that

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Speaker 1: they undersold how good Clay Thompson was for the most

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Speaker 1: part of this year, and I know he had some

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Speaker 1: he had he went you know, a month without hitting shots,

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Speaker 1: he still ended up shooting almost the same percentage from two,

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Speaker 1: slightly lower from three, averaging the same number points. He's

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Speaker 1: a tremendous defender. For whatever reason he didn't make it.

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Speaker 1: I'll leave you this in regards to Golden State, and

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Speaker 1: we'll have a good discussion here with David Vanderpoolt. I

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Speaker 1: personally think that Draymond is the difference now. Draymond being

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Speaker 1: in shape and being healthy and making shots makes even

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Speaker 1: Draymond different from Draymond of the last couple of months.

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Speaker 1: But other teams have lead guards that score a ton,

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Speaker 1: Other teams have two guards that score and defend, maybe

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Speaker 1: not as well as step steps ridiculous, But no one

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Speaker 1: has a Draymond who can guard any position, who can

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Speaker 1: bring the ball up, can play down the post, you know,

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Speaker 1: can also get the negative attention away from other players

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Speaker 1: and attracted by the officials and by the by the

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Speaker 1: opposing bench and by the opposing fans. But Draymond Green's

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Speaker 1: versatility and his success at each one of those different spots,

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Speaker 1: especially defensively and then even offensively, I think it's what

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Speaker 1: makes me special. I really really do. Will in coming

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Speaker 1: weeks we'll start to cover free agency. But I want

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Speaker 1: to add this about Magic Johnson, and it's amazing because

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Speaker 1: he was an amazing basketball player. Nobody's listening to this

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Speaker 1: things otherwise. So this is not me taking a shot

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Speaker 1: at Magic the basketball player or even maybe the person,

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Speaker 1: but just the reality of what he's done as a

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Speaker 1: business professional, because Magic is a sought after motivational speaker.

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Speaker 1: But think about it, if you actually understood what he

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Speaker 1: just did to a brand, too, a company, how to

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Speaker 1: a franchise that helped create this almost impenetrable image like

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Speaker 1: that was that was nasty. What he did to the

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Speaker 1: Lakers nasty. He only played for one franchise, He had

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Speaker 1: to retire early because he contracted the HIV virus. They

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Speaker 1: welcomed him back when he was cleared to play. I

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Speaker 1: mean they've they've tied them. They've hired him as a

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Speaker 1: head coach when he was ill prepared for it. They

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Speaker 1: hired him as president of basketball operations when he was

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Speaker 1: ill prepared and apparently not invest in it. And the

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Speaker 1: way which he paid him back was to air in

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Speaker 1: his mind dirty laundry, complain about not having autonomous power,

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Speaker 1: when also at the exact same time, saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: I told him I'd be in and out and I

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Speaker 1: have other businesses. He doesn't actually have other businesses he

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Speaker 1: would run. He's a motivational speaker, and he's on boards

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Speaker 1: and he does a lot of stuff. But it's basically

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Speaker 1: showing up and being Magic Johnson. He's really good at that,

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Speaker 1: but it's disingenuous. So before you listen to magic sycophants,

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Speaker 1: tell you how Genie's an idiot, and the boy the

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Speaker 1: brothers are idiots, and Rob Polinka is a bad guy.

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Speaker 1: Any of these things might actually be true, but how

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Speaker 1: would you handle it at The guy who was in

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Speaker 1: charge didn't show up to work hardly at all, said

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Speaker 1: he had other businesses, but none of those businesses really

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Speaker 1: needed him to be there, and then when he did

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Speaker 1: show up at work, didn't want to take anybody else's

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Speaker 1: word for it or working group think I want to

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Speaker 1: make all the decisions on his own when many of

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Speaker 1: the decisions he had previously made had not panned out

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Speaker 1: to be good ones. You'd probably send an email or

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Speaker 1: two or talk a little shit or two as well.

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Speaker 1: And that is what Rob Polinka is accused of doing.

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Speaker 1: And even if he did it, and he shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: done it. You know, Magic shouldn't do call attention to

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Speaker 1: it on national TV, because if he really loved the Lakers,

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Speaker 1: he just did a ton of harm to their ability

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Speaker 1: to land free agents, to land assistant coaches, to land

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Speaker 1: players in the future, because now it looks like the

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Speaker 1: Lakers are a complete dumpster fire, which they may be,

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Speaker 1: but he also might have he poured kerosene on a

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Speaker 1: dumpster fire, which he actually let the match on to

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Speaker 1: begin with, Let's get you to David Vanpoole, who was

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Speaker 1: a great player, great scoring guard during his time playing

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Speaker 1: in college St Podadventure and then mostly overseason he's become

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Speaker 1: an outstanding assistant coach and likely head coach very soon

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Speaker 1: in the NBA. Here's David Vanderpoolt of the Potland Trail Plazers. David,

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Speaker 1: how are you, hey, Doug? How you doing good? Man? Um?

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Speaker 1: How long does it take to kind of I don't

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Speaker 1: know to to get the perspective on the entire season, right,

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Speaker 1: because when it just ends, and especially the way in

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Speaker 1: which your season ended, where the last three games you

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Speaker 1: had seventeen eighteen and seventeen point leads, right, there's I'm

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Speaker 1: sure a ton of disappointment. Um, and you know everybody

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Speaker 1: has every basketball player and coach has that DVR in

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Speaker 1: their head with their rewinding plays and we should have

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Speaker 1: done this, We should have done that, and this would

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Speaker 1: have happened. Everything would have changed. How long does it

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Speaker 1: take before you get the perspective of how we had

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Speaker 1: a hell of a run and we did so without

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Speaker 1: our starting center. Well, I mean, you know, typically, uh,

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Speaker 1: that can be a long process. Um. You know, you

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Speaker 1: always kind of look backwards and you start to think

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Speaker 1: about different things that that you know, like you said

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Speaker 1: that you could have done differently, that you could of

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Speaker 1: uh you know, zag zig here when you zagg there

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Speaker 1: and made a left turn instead of the right term.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately, you know, I think for us, I know

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Speaker 1: that we've we've always had a next day mentality, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I know me typically even personally, I try

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Speaker 1: to you know, but then twenty four hours, you know, definitely,

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Speaker 1: definitely no longer than thirty six hours. You make sure

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Speaker 1: that you know, you have a short memory, and you

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Speaker 1: know we've we've we've basically done that throughout our seasons.

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Speaker 1: We've had ups and downs, We've had different situations where

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Speaker 1: we've done well and and other times not so well.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately, especially in the NBA, the game's come so fast.

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Speaker 1: The next thing comes so quickly that you know, you

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Speaker 1: kind of want to have as shorter memory as possible,

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Speaker 1: and you celebrate those small successes to an extent, and

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Speaker 1: then you move on and you you you m all

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Speaker 1: over those uh, those tough times to an extent, and

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Speaker 1: then you move forward just as well. So I think

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Speaker 1: having that built in our psyche for for so long

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Speaker 1: throughout the course of the season has allowed us to

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Speaker 1: kind of reflect on it in a more positive manner.

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Speaker 1: I mean, God showed up for the Eggs interviews, and

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Speaker 1: you know it was it was still some talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, what we could have done differently, but after

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Speaker 1: that it was just really a reflection on on how

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Speaker 1: well we did throughout the season. Uh. I've been trying

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Speaker 1: to sit here and break down in my own brain

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Speaker 1: why the Warriors are so good and everybody falls back up, right,

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Speaker 1: everybody falls back on the well Steph and Clay, But

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Speaker 1: you kind of have your own Steph and Clay. Granted,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do think there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a difference. I'm sure you may differ in that opinion

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Speaker 1: because those are your guys, um. I think the differences

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Speaker 1: Draymond and obviously he's playing better now than he played

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Speaker 1: during the regular season. Hell then he played last year

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Speaker 1: in the playoffs. He's he's lighter, he's making shots, he's

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Speaker 1: more active. Like I just I think he's the difference maker.

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Speaker 1: And you have to see it on the court and

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Speaker 1: have a super and have a basketball I que to

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Speaker 1: kind of get it. But maybe I'm wrong. Uh Is

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Speaker 1: it is it Staff is something we haven't seen before?

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Speaker 1: Or is Draymond the difference in what makes them what

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Speaker 1: they are? I think I think it's twofold. Obviously. Those guys,

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Speaker 1: you know Stephane play, work their tales off just as

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Speaker 1: Damon see they do, and they are other world, the

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Speaker 1: other level type of players, and they can change games.

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Speaker 1: Franchises make other players better than they all have that ability.

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Speaker 1: I think you know that the the Warriors just as

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Speaker 1: a whole. First of all, I mean, you know people especially,

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Speaker 1: you know, everybody has had different additives as to you know,

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Speaker 1: what could be done and what should be done and

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Speaker 1: who would do better and all these types of things.

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Speaker 1: But I mean it's just saying that I've heard before,

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Speaker 1: Like it's one thing to to look in a fish

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Speaker 1: tank and see a sharks women, it's another thing that

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Speaker 1: jump in and swim with them. And you know the

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Speaker 1: reality is, you know, you look at a Draymond Green

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Speaker 1: and the intangibles aside from the triple doubles, aside from

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Speaker 1: the things that he that he does that that you

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Speaker 1: kind of, um just see as far as statistically, the

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Speaker 1: ability to allow Steph and Clay to just be themselves

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Speaker 1: and do what they do is what I think Draymond

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Speaker 1: affords them that you know, everybody just can't can't do that. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, people try to compare Damian and c J

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Speaker 1: two Steph and Clay. I think that's completely different as

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Speaker 1: far as players, as far as their abilities and their

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Speaker 1: strengths and weaknesses and and they all each have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of all of that. They all have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of strength, and they all have a bunch of weaknesses

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Speaker 1: that uh, they can be exploited in different ways. The

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Speaker 1: difference I think is again having a player like Draymond

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Speaker 1: who allows step to basically not play point the point

427
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: guard position for most of the game. Um, he doesn't

428
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: bring the ball up the court, he doesn't get them

429
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 1: into their offensive sets. He he's allowed to run around

430
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: and afforded that because of Draymond Grant being uh such

431
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 1: a facilitator and so so capable um in that role.

432
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: Damian doesn't really have that uh all the time, you know, consistently,

433
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: so you know, who knows what it might be like

434
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: for him if that was the case. Draymond also does

435
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: a lot of things, and you know, I believe play

436
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: as a phenomenal defender. I think he's top notch and

437
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: he works his tail off, but also defensively played doing

438
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: what he does defensively, Draymond covers up a bunch of

439
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: mistakes for guys that they make consistently. They also have

440
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: a certain level of intelligence as a whole as a

441
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: group where they switch and and make decisions on the fly.

442
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily something that's built in with the schematics.

443
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But being as smart

444
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: as they are and having having been together for as

445
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: long as they've been together and been successful for as

446
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: long as Draymond has been there, uh, it just afford

447
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: them a certain level of ability to be able to

448
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: do the things that they are very very special and

449
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: when you when you are afforded the ability to do

450
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: things that you're very very special and you're on you know,

451
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: already on another level as it is in those certain

452
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: things for those guys are shooting. I mean, for Clay

453
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: to be in positions where he's had games where he's

454
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: had I don't know, fift what he had, fifty points

455
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: and a half or whatever it is and taking like

456
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: two dribbles, I mean that's you know that that is

457
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: actually indicative of not only his ability because nothing, nothing

458
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: taken away from him and the ability that he had,

459
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: but you have to have other guys that can afford

460
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: you back at times. And sometimes that's you know, Draymond.

461
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: Draymond does everything else for them. Yeah, and and honestly

462
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: that and and though Durant is more of a ball

463
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: stopper rightfully so than other guys, he also is able

464
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: to cover up defensively because of his length and able

465
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: to have to play us in point guard to let

466
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: staff be staff. And uh, you know, we've gotten this

467
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: weird place to where there are people that think, well,

468
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: maybe they're better without him. Look yea right, yeah, that's hard. Yeah,

469
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: that's not hard, not even close, not even so. I

470
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: mean not to cut you off, but just just you know,

471
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: people people think that Katie is the ball stopper. I

472
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: would argue he's the one that can calm down everything

473
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: when things get erratic. Giving the ball, you'll get a

474
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: quality shot. He's probably the most efficient UH score in

475
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: the NBA. He makes shots from everywhere. He's constantly a

476
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: forty fifty ninety guy. I mean, you know when you

477
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: get when you get that type of talent where you

478
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: have a guy who basically you can give him the ball,

479
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: say all right, we need to calm down, we need

480
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: to make sure we get a bucket here. You're just

481
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: giving the ball. Now, nobody has to even run around

482
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: now they now they also allowed and afford the luxury

483
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: to be able to conserve energy so that they can

484
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: run around consistently. So you know, just I mean imagine

485
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: in there. It's it's an amazing point that you make

486
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: because I've actually said I thought that Houston had the

487
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: right kind of game plan the last two years. They

488
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: remember they had Joe Johnson last year and then this

489
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: year was mellow, and I thought those guys, look, you

490
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: don't necessarily at this point in their career, and because

491
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: of their weaknesses. Defensively, you don't want them for thirty

492
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: five minutes a night. But in the playoffs, what they

493
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: lack is what what what Katie brings? Would you like? Hey,

494
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 1: all those guys, everybody's exhausted, right because you're playing in

495
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: a super high level and just let's just throw it

496
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: in the post. I know analytics tell us that that's

497
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: not a smart spot, but obviously, and obviously the Warriors

498
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: are very good passers and their split action out of

499
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: a post is special, but it does allow you to, like,

500
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: everybody else's chill out and let's let k D eat

501
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: or let's let I thought I thought it was a

502
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: mistake by Houston. I don't know about everything else, and

503
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: I thought they had Carmelo and the idea of hey,

504
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: in a playoff series, James Harden getting twenty in the

505
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: first half is a bad thing because he's got nothing

506
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: in the tank in the fourth quarter. Whereas had they

507
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: been had a Carmelo, or had they used Joe Johnson

508
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: the year before, just that what k D brings? Everybody

509
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: else chill out and let's let him meet a little bit. Yeah, well,

510
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: and I agree with you, especially offensively. The hard part

511
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: with that and again you know Melo, Melo obviously was

512
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: elite when he was in his in his prime. Um,

513
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: you know, as he got older, things got a lot

514
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: tougher for him offensively in certain situations. Joe Johnson as well,

515
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: elite in his prime, and as he got older and

516
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: you know, less apt to take some long distance shots,

517
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: then that started to change a little bit. They're still

518
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: walk in buckets, don't get me wrong, but I think

519
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: that the difference between them and Kevin is also that

520
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: elite level defender, which Kevin is, like he he led

521
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: Golden State and blocked shots h last season for sure. Well,

522
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,959
Speaker 1: I mean you know, when you when you add that

523
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: along with the things that he can do offensively, he's

524
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: Joe Johnson, Carmelo and he put together on steroids offensively

525
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: because of his efficiency, because of you know, being that

526
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: type of guy that that can make shots consistently from

527
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: all over the court, as well as being able to

528
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: meet guys at the rim and become the premier shot

529
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: blocker on their team. I mean, you know that that's

530
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: that's just invaluable. And again it just allows in the

531
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: fourth those guys, you know, it's just another guy to

532
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: the fourth, those guys the opportunity to to do the

533
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: things that they are are very very special and elite

534
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: at uh solely they don't have to really do some

535
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: of the other things. They don't have to facilitate for

536
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: other guys. They don't have to worry about, you know,

537
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: such and such as upset because you haven't touched the ball,

538
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, fourteen times down the court. They can get

539
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: play and you know it just it just affords them

540
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: a lot of luxuries that a lot of teams, a

541
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: lot of people just don't have. Is that in part

542
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: what happened to Dame is that you know, there there

543
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: was so much energy expended, emotional energy, physical energy, intellectual

544
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: energy in in taking down Oklahoma City. I mean and

545
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: that one that I mean, look that mattered to him.

546
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: Um And and look, I also think there's other parts

547
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: to it. I think Denver, the altitude, I think the

548
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: length of the series seven games. But by the end

549
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: of that series he was a different guy. Um And

550
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: I even think if you look back, as I went

551
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: back and watched Game four, and there was a couple

552
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: of plays late in regulation where he was a little

553
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: indecisive driving to the hoop, almost drove to pass instead

554
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: of driving, driving to score, which is very very much

555
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: unlike him. Um, how much in your mind, how much

556
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: of it was the skill and athleticism and the different

557
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: coverages of Golden State? How much and and at the

558
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: end of you uh, Denver, and how much of it

559
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: was like dude, that guy unloaded the tank to beat

560
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and early on in the Denver series, and

561
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: it it came back to haunt him at sometimes later

562
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. Well, I think I think if you

563
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: know again, you make great points that it probably was

564
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: a combination of all of those things. I just think that, um,

565
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, and our health and performance staff is one

566
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: of the best in the league. We've had great success

567
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: with our guys as far as um that load and

568
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: and dealing with with them being able to have something

569
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: in the in the tank. Um, as we moved forward.

570
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: I do think that some of that played apart some

571
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: of the fatigue came in. Damien's always had you know,

572
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: always had injuries and or not injuries, always had something hurting.

573
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: And you know, as a former player, and I know

574
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: you know this old attitude like if if something isn't hurting,

575
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: and I must be dead because something is supposed to

576
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: be hurting. Every time I step on the court, something's

577
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: bothering me, you know what I mean. So that's just

578
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: something that those are things that that that just you know,

579
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: in part of the season and part of the the things

580
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: that go on. Everybody has something going on with with

581
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: their bodies and with their level fatigue. I do think

582
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: that the schematic played a major role, um to an extent.

583
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: And I said that to say that, so they start

584
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: out blessing um Dane an CJ. As a matter of fact,

585
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: and you know, we knew that that was going to

586
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: be a part of what the game plan was going

587
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: to be defensively to try to stop those guys, to

588
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: shut those guys down. But as as we you know,

589
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: had some success, especially early on in pretty much every

590
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: game except for maybe Game one, we pretty much had

591
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: a lot of success. We were leading that Golden State series.

592
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: We we led more than than we trailed in that series. Um, yes,

593
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: it's absolutely great, so you know, and our first half

594
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: were always very productive for us. But a lot of

595
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: times where you know, you get teams that kind of

596
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: back off of a schematic that they may feel, Okay,

597
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: this isn't this isn't working out how we had hope,

598
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: but let's change this. That's all too that they actually

599
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: committed even more. And when they committed more and became

600
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,479
Speaker 1: more aggressive, and as the game war on and the

601
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: week's side pulled over even more, just allowing you know,

602
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: whoever was on the week's side to just be over

603
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: there by themselves, it got even tougher. And I think

604
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: that is what war on Damien more than anything, because

605
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: it was so consistent, and it was consistently aggressive, and

606
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: it was consistently like the temperature went up higher than

607
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: than it did. You figured sometimes, okay, we're having success,

608
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: let's figure something else out. They committed even more to it.

609
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: And I think you saw that level of commitment UM

610
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: last season from New Orleans when we played New Orleans

611
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: in the first round and lost in the first round

612
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: UM and got swept, And they basically had success in

613
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: what the schematic was, and it made them even more

614
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: confident and more aggressive and more. You know, Golden State

615
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: basically believed in it, and they went even harder as

616
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: the game's war and and you know, I just think

617
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: that you know a lot of those things of what

618
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: contributed to to him struggling along with those you know,

619
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: the fatigue factor of the other series that went on.

620
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: He didn't play great when we when we played against

621
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: Denver as far as statistically, but again, his level of

622
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: responsibility and the things he's responsible for a so tremendous. Uh.

623
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just proud of his commitment to his

624
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: responsibilities are for for his teammates and for his for

625
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: his team and for this organization. So you know, no, no,

626
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: uh no faunt of his not nothing. You know he did.

627
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: He does his best every night, no matter what, because

628
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: again he had so much, so much responsibility for for

629
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: his team and for his teammates, and and he loves

630
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: it and believes in it and really puts his mind

631
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: and then sold into it. Let's go back for you.

632
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: By the way, your boyd Clinton gives you a shout out.

633
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: He's he's come on the pot before. And yeah, he

634
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: told me, he told me he's the best. Uh, Darren

635
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: McClinton back. And by the way, you're listening to this,

636
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: you want to you want to download and listen, just

637
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: Google search when darry Mclinton was on our All Ball podcast. Um, okay,

638
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: so you grew up exactly where like don't give, don't

639
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: give me the general I grew up in the d

640
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: m V Like, exactly where did you grow up? I

641
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: grew up in silver in silver Spring, Maryland, Okay. Now,

642
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: is that that's kind of suburby, that's a night that's

643
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: a decent side of the tracks, right, Well, I guess

644
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: it depends on what part of that area actually Silver

645
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: Spring I was. Um I grew up. Um it was nice, sir.

646
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: I guess being in the late eighties early nineties in

647
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: the DC area is it was really tough. It was different,

648
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: different scenario, different situation. Um, I did grow up in

649
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: the school to the high school that I went through

650
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: was in mcgommery County, and in mcgommery County is a

651
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: very big area. So Silver Spring is like where I

652
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: grew up is right across the d C line, and

653
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: it goes all of Mcgommery County, goes all the way

654
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: out to Rockville and slash Getersburg, which is about thirty

655
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: minutes from d C. Okay, you know, if that, if

656
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: that makes sense, I lived about I guess five minutes

657
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: from north northwest Washington, d C. And Gatesburg is about

658
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: thirty minutes from maybe more from Washington, d C. So

659
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: it just kind of depends on how you how you

660
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: look at it, how you slighted it. I was. I

661
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't grow up in the you know, in

662
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: a rough, rough environment, because there was much rougher than

663
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: the environment that I grew up in. I did have

664
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: some opportunity, so it definitely helped. And I'm proud of

665
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: being from Mctgommery County and growing up in the area.

666
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: And you know a lot of times people people ask, well,

667
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: you know why you say from d C. Well, the

668
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: thing is when people don't live in that area, do

669
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: not are not familiar with the area. If I were

670
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: to say I was from Maryland, the first thing that

671
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: people may think is where. If I said Maryland, people

672
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: think Balton, Baltimore, right, and the anythink the Wire. I

673
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: never I never was anywhere anywhere near the environment of Baltimore.

674
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 1: I never was in Baltimore as a youth. I never

675
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: had even I think the only place I've been in

676
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: Baltimore was the Harbor growing up. So that's like the only,

677
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: uh my only familiarity with Baltimore as as a as

678
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: a as a teenager and growing up. So that's why

679
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: the people from the Metropolitan used to call it the

680
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: metropolitan area, not the BNV, but the people from the

681
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: metropolitan area. What we say, I'm from d C because

682
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: that's the only thing that we were familiar with. Well,

683
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: we didn't want we didn't want to have that confused.

684
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: Where did you grow up playing? Like? Was there a

685
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: rec center, outdoor park all all over the place? Um,

686
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: Kakoma Park, Koma Park, rep um A lot of times

687
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: we were there to Koma Park, um Uh played out

688
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: outside of Claudy Kane which is in Northwest. UM play

689
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: there Sligo Creek, which is in kind of Silver Spring, Maryland.

690
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: I guess it's it's in that area. UM, I mean

691
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: we I used to play in Michigan Park sometimes, which

692
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: is in northwest as well. UM. I think those were

693
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: probably and again a lot of a lot of those

694
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: places outside because that's kind of just what we did.

695
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: But once I, once I was you know, had grown

696
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: up a little bit, was a little bit further along

697
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: as far as the high school or you know, coming

698
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: closer to my senior year, we would get together with

699
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: some friends and more more than anything, we were Tacoma Wreck,

700
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 1: which is in Tacoma Park, Tokoma Park, is a part

701
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: of Maryland slash d see part of Poma Park is

702
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: in d C. The other part of in Maryland. Who

703
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: are you? Who are your guys that? Who is your

704
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: who is part of your crew that went on to

705
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: playing other places? Some some some of the guys that well.

706
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: Darren McClinton, who you've had on the podcast. Uh, Dason

707
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: Mscarry who was younger, a little bit younger than I.

708
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: He is young there than Iami. Um was I think

709
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: a freshman at Blair. We both went to Blairs a freshman,

710
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: Blair when I was a senior, Steve Francis who was

711
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: also a freshman and Blair when I was a senior. Um, Yeah,

712
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: branch there. Riley ends Um we grew up kind of

713
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: being rivals in high school and became like closest of friends. Um.

714
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: Keith Meaney who broke the n C double a three

715
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: point three point record I think in the game while

716
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 1: he was in college at Marshall, played with Jason Williams

717
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: Um while he was there and played for Billy Donovan. Um.

718
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: We always were kind of together, always worked out together.

719
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: Dwayne Simptons who played in Maryland. We used to work

720
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: out together all the time. I mean, all of the

721
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: guys in the area, we always worked out together, and

722
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: as we grew older, it just kind of branched out

723
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: into different things. So we would go at the University

724
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: of Maryland and um work out and hoop up there,

725
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: and you know, there you get you know, Chris Webber

726
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: who was with the Wizards at the time, and this

727
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: is in the summer. Wat Williams who was playing in

728
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: the NBA at the time, and it's Wattley was playing

729
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: the NBA at the time. A new Bowl used to

730
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: come up there with us all the time, and you

731
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: get a whole host of different different guys as we

732
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: got older, but my main crew was was those guys

733
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: and and and we all, you know, we all just

734
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: loved it, just loved being around each other, love to compete,

735
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 1: and you know, just just basically just it was so different.

736
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: We just went and hooped and played versus trying to

737
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: you know, go through these drills and different things. And

738
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: I think that's like the start of where we started

739
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: kind of doing little little drill before we were hooped.

740
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: But more than anything, it was just about playing as

741
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: much as possible. Okay, that's actually brings me to a

742
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: question I have. Uh, is it our guys better now

743
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: because they don't like my friends that are assistants in

744
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: the NBA, like, you know, guys don't hoop that much.

745
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: And I was like, really, the like no, they get together.

746
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: They all do individuals or small groups and they get

747
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: at it. Uh. Do you which do you think it's?

748
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: Do you think guys are better now? I'm like, look,

749
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: I think guys are more skilled now generally, but I

750
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: also think that's because they're working on those those skills,

751
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: the ball skills off a ball screen and catch and

752
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: shoot at a younger age than than we didn't were

753
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: your kids. But do you is this a better process

754
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: for developing better players or do you think that hooping

755
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: just going? Because that's what I My dad would grew

756
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: up as using a New Yorker, So his way of

757
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: teaching me to play was like he would take me

758
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: to parks when I was young and like get me

759
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: in games and just like I play all day. Like

760
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: that was his way of That's how I learned how

761
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: to play. What do you think is better? Well, I

762
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: guess this. You know, sometimes it comes down to how

763
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: you view basketball and and me growing up in the

764
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: era that is more similar to, as a matter of fact,

765
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: the same as the area that you grew up in. UM,

766
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: I believe to make better basketball players, you gotta have

767
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: guys playing basketball, and um I think it should probably

768
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: be more of a combination of the two. I don't

769
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: think that people in enough time uh combining that, uh,

770
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: the playing all the time and the skill work. I mean, guys,

771
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: like you said, have a high level of skill and

772
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: you put him in the workout and you're like, who

773
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: he can he's incredible. Well, and then you put him

774
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: in a game and you gotta tell him everything and this,

775
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, that is the part that I think becomes

776
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: lost art because kids don't they don't just go play

777
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: and learn and figure out and you know, pick up

778
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: your your your four other guys and say all right, well,

779
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, we don't go hoop and they're not your friends,

780
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: they're just four other guys. And you know, okay, this

781
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: guy can shoot. This guy there's not so much to

782
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: shoot him, but he can bang a little bit. And

783
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: now you've got to figure out how to best play

784
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: with these guys to win, because you definitely don't want

785
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: to sit out and have to wait for the next down.

786
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: So now you you start to to form a pattern

787
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: of of of of competition, You start to form a

788
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: pattern of leadership, You start to form a pattern the

789
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: communication with with guys that you don't necessarily play with

790
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: all the time. Um, you start to form a level

791
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: of evaluation of guys and saying, okaytion he he can

792
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: shoot from here, or he's pretty good from there, or

793
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: this that and the third you actually have to to

794
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: feed your mind and feed your brain, uh the ability

795
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: to to to get through those situations. And I think

796
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: it helps. The problem is again you go through all

797
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: the skill work and even playing under the whistle all

798
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: the time, it's it's just different. It's it's you know,

799
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: I think you need those things as well. But I

800
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: think that a lot is lost when you don't just

801
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: go who you know. I mean, because it's just so

802
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: many different skills that you developed from having to just

803
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: go who. Everything is not set up for you, all

804
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: of the chairs and all of the cones and all

805
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: those things. It's not how things happen through the course

806
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: of a normal game. And I think you get a

807
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 1: chance to see, uh, the uh, the level of like

808
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: the level of stuff when you see the marrying of

809
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: the two. When you see Golden State played, um, Draymond Green,

810
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: you put him in an individual workout and you know,

811
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm just using it for as an example because we

812
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: just we just brought him up, but put him in

813
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: an individual workout, and I don't know that you know,

814
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: you're like blown away by the athleticism or you know

815
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: if you want to want them to just come off

816
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: the screen and shoot the ball or you know, do

817
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: this in the third. Now, he has a high level skill,

818
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: but he's a hooper, you know. I mean, and I

819
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: think that sticks out like no other. Kevin Durant is

820
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: a hooper if you here. Here's the thing, like Draymond

821
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: Green is the type of guy that no matter what

822
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: court you go to in America, he stays on the

823
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: court all day. You're like, man, I don't know, like

824
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: his his team stays on the court all day, which

825
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 1: is what it's kind of supposed to be about. So

826
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: why St. Bonavd Jim Barron was your coach? Money? Yeah?

827
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: Why St. Bonaventry? Because and and most people are listening

828
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: to this or pads they know like where St. Bonaman

829
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: rising Ulli in New York? But why did you go there?

830
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: That that was that was an interesting decision for me.

831
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: The main schools that UM that I kind of came

832
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: down to I had. I had an offer from gw

833
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: UM UH Mike Jarvis was the head coach at the time,

834
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: and they were I think they were nationally ranked before

835
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: I got there. I know they were the whole time

836
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: I was in school in Atlanticton. UM. Gary Williams was

837
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: at Maryland and I did have hav an offer there. UM.

838
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: I had an offer from Ripe University, which was out

839
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: in Texas, UM, so I went and visited UM. I

840
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 1: went to all of those schools as a matter of fact,

841
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, a part of

842
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: me really wanted to not be in the DC area again.

843
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: Growing up there in the late eighties or the nineties

844
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: is a little rough, a little tough. I wasn't sure

845
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: if being close to home, that close to home and

846
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: around my friends and some of that stuff was gonna

847
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: be has been official for me as necessary. Couple with

848
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: I'm coming out of high school. I was six five

849
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: point guard and UM, you know, and talking with even

850
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: my high school coach at the time, a lot of

851
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: the schools that were recruiting me wanted me to play

852
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: more combo at the time. And his thing was, and

853
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: it made sense to me, was you know, at six

854
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: ft five, you know on the wayne you're good, you're good,

855
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: but as a point guard just special. So you know,

856
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: that stuck out to me a lot. And honestly St.

857
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: Bonaventure was the school that recruited me to play point guard.

858
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: And I looked at that situation and I said, this

859
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: is funny because I said this to different people at

860
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: different times. But you know, some people see despair, the

861
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: others opportunity. And you know, I looked at at their situation.

862
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: They were had were very unsuccessful at the moment, things

863
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: were not going well at all, and by the time,

864
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: by the time I left there, it was totally different direction.

865
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: We had done incredibly well. I was first team All

866
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: Atlantic ten and you know, all my way to a

867
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: professional career and fortunately leave and after I left, they

868
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: be in the n C Double A tournaments and have

869
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 1: done a lot of a lot of really good things

870
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: in a small town and a small environment. And you know,

871
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: my four years in the Atlantic ten Conference, we're great years.

872
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: Number one team in the country, was in the nine ten.

873
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: Every team pretty much except for maybe two or three

874
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: were ranked in the top twenty five. I mean, we

875
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: had an incredible run through my four years in college

876
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: and and I look at it is highly successful and

877
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: I had a great time. It's funny. I was, I

878
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: was watching you guys playing Evan Turner was a point

879
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: guard in college, and now he's playing four in the NBA.

880
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: It's like, it's amazing. It's amazing, and how how that's changed. Okay,

881
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: so you have you have a remarkable career. As you

882
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: point out, it was the Atlantic TI Atlantic ten. Then

883
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: you know you mentioned number one team that was you

884
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: Mass Obviously St. Joe's was was was getting good. Xavier

885
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: was tremendous, and we kind of go through Rhode Island

886
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: that was that was back when Rhode Island was stacked

887
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: as well. I mean kind of go through the Atlantic ten. Um, Uh,

888
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: what what do you what do you remember about you

889
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: finish up your senior year and and then what in

890
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: terms of the NBA finished up my senior year, went through, Uh,

891
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: the pre draft camp, did finish up in Chicago, did

892
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: pretty well then and was projected to possibly get drafted

893
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: in the second round and did not. And you know

894
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: from that actually, uh, you know it was. It was,

895
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: I guess, a huge wake up, just like, Okay, so

896
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 1: what now? Do I still want to want to play?

897
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: Of course I did, and you know, got different opportunities

898
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: in different places overseas. I went to I went to

899
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: China when it wasn't fashionable and actually Darren was there

900
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: as well, um and we went and I went over

901
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: there and played. Uh y'all. Ming was actually playing with

902
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: his Shanghai team. I think he was like eighteen years

903
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: old at the time, but he was still huge. But

904
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: the guys that were were uh high level players. I

905
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: guess on that team it was a Wan Gigi who

906
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: ended up with Dallas, and Battier who ended up with Denver.

907
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: Wait wait so wait first? First you in Italy though, right?

908
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: Did you go to Italy first? Well? Yeah I did.

909
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: I did go to Italy for a like. I was

910
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: there to replace someone and they asked me to stay,

911
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't want to be you know,

912
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: being young and not understanding the dynamicis situations. My dream

913
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: was to play in the NBA, so I wanted to

914
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: go back and I ended up leaving. I was there

915
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: for um I think a month I was with UH

916
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: with the team in uh uh northern Italy near Trieste Codicia. Yeah,

917
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: so you that went there, went, that went well. But

918
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: after that I went to China. Okay, so you go

919
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: to you go to China and here's the dude from

920
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: from d C. We'll give you d C. I mean

921
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: some of the springs people like. But by the way,

922
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 1: I don't still bring Marian problem. So but to only

923
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: in and then you know all the pre draft stuff,

924
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: and then you go to Italy. What do you tell

925
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: me about the first time you get to China? You

926
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: you get you get out. You you're like in China,

927
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: were in a big city or small city? What was it?

928
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 1: What was it like? It was the northeastern China, Jelian Province. Um,

929
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: I guess considered smaller city in China. But a small

930
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: city in China may be a heavily populated place in America.

931
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: So UM, I got there and and obviously you know

932
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: some culture shop, same situation. UM going to my first

933
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: my first trip over to Italy. But you know, you

934
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: talk about me going to St. Bota Venture, which was

935
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 1: completely different from the environment I grew up in. UM

936
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: and I think that that decision actually prepared me better

937
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 1: for what would happen for me later on in life,

938
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 1: going to a place like China, being around and surrounded

939
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: by totally different culture, looking around and you know, not

940
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: seeing anybody that was like me. Um it, you know,

941
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: my my journey before that prepared me to you know,

942
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: be better, I guess equipped to handle the situations that

943
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: were to come. So, you know, being there at first,

944
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: I'm just looking around like all right, what am I

945
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 1: gonna be doing and what's gonna go on? And stand

946
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: the third, but once I, once I settled in, it

947
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: was just really about um trying to ingrain myself and

948
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: ingratiate myself with the things that were indicative of their culture,

949
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: and just understanding first, you know what I mean, because

950
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: you know you can you can feel a certain way.

951
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: That's then the third, but it's it's I think it's

952
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: important to try to understand first and then you make

953
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: a decision versus you know, coming in with with you know,

954
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: being shut off and shut down and closed minded. So

955
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: um I ended up things went really well. We won

956
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: the championship my first year, and I mean things kind

957
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: of took off from there. It went it went well.

958
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: Uh one of the uh my teammates, my Chinese teammates

959
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: is now that I think the president of that organization

960
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: is still in the see b A and things are

961
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: going well for him. But he was a national team

962
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 1: player at the time, and we didn't speak the same

963
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: language at all, but we spoke the same language when

964
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: they came to basketball and we were I mean we

965
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: were like, we're still cool to this to this day.

966
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: Which is interesting. Favorite favorite food that you ate there

967
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 1: in China? Oh man? Oh man? Who was my favorite

968
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: foods Uh, that's a good question. Um favorite. I don't

969
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: know about favorite. I do know that I tried some

970
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 1: stuff that I was just really like my growth. A

971
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: lot of people out they do they have different different

972
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: um delicacies, um, different things that that are indicative of

973
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: the culture in different ways. So I think that I

974
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: was in northeast China. But to keep warm as far

975
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: as what they say that they would sometimes drink a

976
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 1: little bit of snake blood. Yeah, And I tried it

977
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: just to you know, all right, Uh, you know, my

978
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: my Asian uh uh, my Asian friend, Asian teammates and

979
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 1: some of my friend trying to try Okay, I'm gonna

980
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: try it. So I tried it and it was strange

981
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: for me. It didn't taste weird, but you know, it

982
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: was still like when I knew what it was, I'm like,

983
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe I just did that,

984
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: But you know, that was that was, I guess the

985
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: weirdest thing when I was when I was in Moscow. Uh,

986
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: there's a Ukrainian place and I had had there's a

987
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: Ukrainian delicacy called salo, which is like pig fat. It's

988
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: like baking without the without the uncooked, without the beef,

989
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: without the meat part to it, and and it's like

990
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: a garlic and salt and then you dip it in gorchica,

991
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: which is u you know mustard, that spicy mustard they

992
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: love in Russia. And I tried that, and I tried

993
00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: cowbrains cowbrains. Yeah. Yeah, that was the problem with the

994
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: cow brains is not the taste of the cow brains.

995
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: It's one, you know you're cowbrains, and two it looks

996
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: it looks like it looks like cal brains as well. Yeah, exactly.

997
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: It's almost like, don't tell me what this is, just

998
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: just let me tell you, tell me, tell me tell

999
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: me afterwards. Okay, So so you were there for a

1000
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: couple of years and then you made the decision to

1001
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: come back and play in the c b A and like, look,

1002
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: for you know, this is a hard call, right because

1003
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could have gone to Italy then or

1004
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: gone to Spain and made a bunch of money. But

1005
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: you said you wanted to play in the league. Was

1006
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: that Was that why you came and played in Yakima

1007
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 1: for two seasons? Yeah? Um Again, the idea was about

1008
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: chasing chasing success, not money. And I've always had that

1009
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: mentality just um you know, in my professional career in general.

1010
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: So um, I wanted to play at the highest level

1011
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 1: and wanted to to prove something to myself more than anything,

1012
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: like you know you're capable of doing this no matter

1013
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: what paths you have to take, and just trying to

1014
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: stay wrapped up in journey understanding that Okay, this is

1015
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: the part of the journey and it's it's going to

1016
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: be something that I know I learned from and grow from.

1017
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: So um I made this, made the decision, went back

1018
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: to came back to the States, played uh in Yakima

1019
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: and want to win the championship the first year there,

1020
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: which was great, and you know that's an invaluable experience. Again,

1021
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: I'm win of the CBA Championship and that was a

1022
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: big deal for me at the time. One of my teammates,

1023
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: Roger Bell, who went on to play many years in

1024
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: the NBA. UM, and I talked about that to this day.

1025
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: You know what I may talk about that season. Um.

1026
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: So you know, those those those parts and pieces of

1027
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: the journey again just prepared me to be able to

1028
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: to be flexible, prepared me to be able to understand,

1029
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: continue to fight and see you to bounce back and

1030
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: just be prepared for anything that's just that's throwing my

1031
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: way in um. You know it was. It was a

1032
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: great situation for me, great situation for me and something

1033
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: that I I think I uh I found it as

1034
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: as another successful piece in that post. Who is your

1035
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: coach in Yakima? Uh, Paul Wolfert was the head coach.

1036
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: What what was your experience like? Because ultimately you did

1037
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: get a call up and you did play in the league.

1038
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: But what was I've often told guys like there's a

1039
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: lot of people like, well, I'd rather go to the

1040
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: minor leagues and you know, instead of instead of staying

1041
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: in college, Like that's a and and my experience, and

1042
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: you and I both played the A B A UM

1043
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: shortly and like I played I think was two thousand two, yeah,

1044
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: springing two thousand two anyway, UM, and I always felt

1045
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: like when I was in the usb L, the A

1046
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: B A, the I B A, no one wants to

1047
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: be there, right, Like there's something healthy to the competitiveness

1048
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: of everybody wanted to show out and make it to

1049
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: the league. But there's also something very very unhealthy, uh

1050
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: to a team which literally no one wants to be there,

1051
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? What was what was? What

1052
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: was your cb A experience? Like it was exactly there

1053
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: and that It's interesting because the dynamics of that really

1054
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: ended up becoming, uh like a self fulfilling prophecy. The

1055
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 1: guys who acted like they didn't want to be there,

1056
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: we're acting like they had nothing to gain by being there.

1057
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, the the guys that

1058
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: se separated that dynamic so they everybody nobody wanted to

1059
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: be there. But certain people looked at it as I

1060
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: can gain something by being here. Others looked at it

1061
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: like I have nothing to gain by being here. I

1062
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 1: shouldn't be here. I don't want to be here. So

1063
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,280
Speaker 1: I think it's just a matter of how you approach

1064
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: it in that perspective, And and that ended up becoming

1065
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: the situation with guys. Certain guys got called up, called up,

1066
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: and and we're out of there because they knew I

1067
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: got something to gain by being here. I can get better,

1068
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 1: I can grow, I can blah blah blah blah blah.

1069
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna show out because of of that, and

1070
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna continue to to to be minutes of my craft.

1071
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: Others were like, I don't need to be here. I'm

1072
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to be here. I'm a party and

1073
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: hang out and do this and that, do this that

1074
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: in the third and some of those guys were the

1075
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: most talented guys, and sometimes they just did not end

1076
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: up getting that opportunity. And then at the same time,

1077
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: you know, being being um, I think being comfortable with

1078
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: with possibly not getting that opportunity, not getting called up,

1079
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: and understanding again, no matter what, I still got something

1080
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: to gain and grow by being here. And you know,

1081
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: I think the guys that gravitated more towards that mentality

1082
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: are the ones that ended up either getting there their

1083
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, living their dream and getting a chance to

1084
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: play in the NBA or getting getting theirs themselves to

1085
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: a different position or opportunity as far as their overseas career.

1086
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: So you know, and then some some others got some

1087
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: answers like, well, you know what, maybe this isn't for me,

1088
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: but you know, at the end of the day, there

1089
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: was something to gain. And I think, you know, the

1090
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: people that gravitated towards their mentality were successful. It was

1091
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: March of two thousand one, I believe, And you've got

1092
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: a call up. What do you remember about it? At

1093
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: about about the actual call, but I being told you're

1094
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: not just going to the NBA, You're going to the Wizards.

1095
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: Remember that, Uh, I think I might let let's let

1096
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: you in on something that I don't think many people know.

1097
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: It might be exclusive, so and it it's low level

1098
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: exclusive that nobody cares. But so when I got called up,

1099
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: I actually had happened to have just come back to

1100
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: d C because we had a break in on season.

1101
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: So um, I had played a game and this was

1102
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: I was with Kansas City with the A b A.

1103
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: Played a game. I left the game immediately, we had

1104
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: some time off. I went to go get on a

1105
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: plane and go back to d C. And I'm waiting

1106
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: for my plane to be called. I had ice on

1107
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: my knees, you know, just like after game, normal stuff.

1108
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: And I took the eyes with me to the airport

1109
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: because it was you know, it was right the game

1110
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: that I went to go catch my flight. And when

1111
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: I when my flight was kind of called, I stood

1112
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: up and heard this crap like my knees one of

1113
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: my my left knee like hurt like him. So I

1114
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: get on the plane. Was in the world. My knee

1115
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: was hurting a little bit. Get on the plane, and

1116
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: my knees started swalling up on the plane with the altitude.

1117
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: So I asked the steward this with some ice, get

1118
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of ice, and she's icing. You know. I

1119
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: got ice on my knee on the plane. It's dripping

1120
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: all over the place. I get off the plane, get

1121
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: picked up from the airport, and get home and my

1122
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: knee is hurting so bad. I didn't go upstairs in

1123
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: my house for two days. I slept downstairs because I

1124
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: didn't want to didn't want to try to go up

1125
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: the steps. But blah blah, I didn't know what's going on. Well,

1126
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: while the second day is what. My agent calls me saying, hey,

1127
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: Washington is interested in signing you. I said what, and

1128
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: so he tells, me, uh, you know, I get interested

1129
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: in and they want to sign. I was like, well,

1130
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: I can't walk right now, you know, it's my knee

1131
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: is killing me. Blah blah blah. He says, So you

1132
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: want me to tell him no, I'm like no, tell him, yes,

1133
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: get up, go to g n C. Gets anything. I can,

1134
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,479
Speaker 1: uh con Jordan anything I can, just like I need

1135
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: something to figure out what was going on. But blah blah,

1136
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: I'll talk to the doctor later. YadA YadA yana. So

1137
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,479
Speaker 1: again this is a part of the journey of living

1138
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: that living out a dream. Um. So the next day

1139
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: is when I had to go UM meet with Roy Higgins.

1140
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's was there and I had to go side

1141
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: my deal. So I drive again. I'm at home and

1142
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: this is my hometown team. This is a dream bigger

1143
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: than a dream. So I get in my car, drive

1144
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: down to the Horizon Center is what it was it

1145
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: was called at the time, and pull up, and I

1146
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: mean I limped into the building and then I straightened

1147
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: myself up as much as I possibly could walk in

1148
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: if you know, I'm fine. Signed went downstairs because we

1149
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: were having some light they were having some life practice.

1150
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: Some of the guys on the team already knew, so

1151
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, I just said hello, everybody, kind of you know,

1152
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: see what I could do on the court a little bit.

1153
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: Didn't really have to do much, And I went straight

1154
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: to the trainer and told him the bump knees of

1155
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: somebody something going on, and he started treating me immediately.

1156
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: And if anybody sees pictures of my first few games

1157
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: with the Wizards, I was wearing a nice sleeve and

1158
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: I had never worn one before ever. So it was

1159
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: because of that situation. And I mean year, a year,

1160
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: two years later, two one too, I think too. Maybe

1161
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: three years later, maybe more than that. I ended up

1162
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: having to have a microfracture surgery on my left knee

1163
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. But my knee was not great

1164
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: when I signed with them, But I was not going

1165
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: to let that deter that opportunity. I didn't care. I

1166
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: was willing to put limb on the line for for

1167
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: the opportunity to to just live out my dream. And

1168
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to get playing time. I had treatment,

1169
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,919
Speaker 1: and I started feeling better, and you know, it gave

1170
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: me an opportunity to to play for my hometown team.

1171
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: And you know, you you never know when those those

1172
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: opportunities become. I wish it would have come differently at

1173
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: a different moment or maybe a different point in my

1174
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: career when I was doing much better and feeling much better.

1175
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: But this is when it came. Man. You know, you

1176
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: gotta make decisions and sometimes so that's one of the

1177
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: things I remember most. Um, I got I got two

1178
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: more for you, and I know your business. Um First, First,

1179
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: first is I look, basically, you did live out my

1180
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: dream like every one of us who played my league.

1181
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's not just playing for like I I

1182
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: did Summer League with the with the Lakers, but I didn't.

1183
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that would have been incredible. I just want

1184
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: to play one day, like I just wanted one time

1185
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: to put on You know, everybody, anybody who's ever been

1186
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: a any level pro hooper has the NBA logo socks, right,

1187
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,479
Speaker 1: But you actually want to have all the NBA logo

1188
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: stuff like actually and and play. What's that like to

1189
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: to all that you've been through? You go up to

1190
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: only in New York you go to Italy, you go

1191
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: to China, you're in the c b A. You finally

1192
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: get out. There wasn't like to play in the in

1193
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: the league. Oh man, it was. It was, I mean

1194
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: it was the feeling was invigorating. I mean, like I

1195
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: remember my first game with Washington was at Boston. It

1196
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: wasn't actually your first game was a Cleveland you played

1197
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: three minutes, but the first one actually yeah, But the

1198
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: second one was that Boston, like you're in Boston Garden,

1199
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: Boston Garden. Absolutely, And I mean the the feeling of

1200
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: the feeling that I remember most is putting on all

1201
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: of my stuff, like putting on the socks that you

1202
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: talk about putting on because you know what people, I think,

1203
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: especially young people, they don't understand, like you can go

1204
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: buy some NBA socks. Now, you can buy all the

1205
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: NBA gear and all the things that that that the

1206
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: pros actually wear. When we were coming up, if somebody

1207
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: had NBA socks, then they had to play in the

1208
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: NBA because they didn't give those out. They weren't. They

1209
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: weren't like all over the place, if somebody had on

1210
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 1: a pair of NBA socks or some NBA shorts from

1211
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: practice or some game short. They probably played a league,

1212
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 1: because you know, even the guys in the league didn't

1213
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: get so much of an abundance of things that they

1214
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: were just giving it out to all of their friends.

1215
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 1: Some of their friends, man had some stuff. But I know,

1216
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: for me, if I saw somebody with the NBA socks

1217
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, man, and I mean I used

1218
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: to remember used I used to add bag and he's like, man,

1219
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't have that many of them. I'm like, what

1220
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, but um, you know, so so putting the

1221
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: uniform on, putting the gear on, looking at my name

1222
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: on the back of the jersey, and all of those

1223
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 1: type of things. That's what I remember more than any thing.

1224
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: As far as that first game, that first opportunity. I

1225
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: had done that training camp, as far as preseason before,

1226
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: but not in a not in an official game. I

1227
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 1: had played in preseason games when I was I was

1228
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,919
Speaker 1: with Detroit for training and played I was like first

1229
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: got off the bench in different situations, and we played

1230
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: in those games. But playing in a real game, in

1231
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: a regular season game was completely different. And putting on

1232
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: all of the gear to uniform, the warm up, I mean,

1233
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: I put on everything that they gave us that first time.

1234
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 1: I put everything on, the shooting shirt underneath the warm up,

1235
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 1: I had everything on, and I was just so excited

1236
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: to have that opportunity. I'll never forget that feeling. Now,

1237
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: fast forward to now and you've been discussed as far

1238
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: as head coaching jobs coached honestly in Russia, and you

1239
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: spend time now with with the with the Portland Trailblazers. Um,

1240
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: what what what is it gonna take for you, you you

1241
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: think to get that right phone call, that right fit

1242
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: to get a head coaching job. Well, I mean I

1243
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: think more than anything, it will probably it will take

1244
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: someone willing to just take hands. Uh. You know, the

1245
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: reality is everybody has had their first everyone, So you

1246
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: know a lot of times when you get the you know,

1247
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 1: we'd rather you know, have have someone with experience and

1248
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: all those things. I completely understand that. But at the

1249
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: end of the day, Um, you know, none of those

1250
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: things equal uh success or equal um equal guaranteed uh

1251
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: guaranteed wins or guaranteed approval. At the end of the day,

1252
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: it's always taking a chance, and there's always some form

1253
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: of a gamble. And I think a lot of times

1254
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: people lean on more experience more people that have have

1255
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,959
Speaker 1: head coaching experience because they look at it as less

1256
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: of a gamble. And you know, I just think having

1257
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, having organization that that is, you know, prepared

1258
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: to partner with some of the ideas and some of

1259
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: the philosophies that I have, and feeling like, you know,

1260
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: this is the gamble worth taking. And at the end

1261
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 1: of the day is we're We're all you know, going

1262
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: to have to figure things out as we go. And

1263
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 1: I think that I've always been and like like I

1264
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 1: said before, every step of my journey through from playing

1265
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: all the way through you know, working in and as

1266
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: pro personnel director of Oklahoma City before I started coaching,

1267
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: I've always had to figure things out as as I've

1268
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: gone and always have been fortunate enough to have that happen.

1269
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I don't think that this is

1270
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: any different. I'm sure that it will be tough once

1271
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: I get that opportunity. Everything always is, but I'll figure

1272
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: it out. And you know, I know that again that

1273
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: the journey not necessarily going to turn into winds, not

1274
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: necessarily gonna turn in the losses either, but being able

1275
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 1: to to get you know, stay wrapped up in that

1276
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: journey and stay wrapped up in and figuring things out

1277
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,919
Speaker 1: and making the most of of every opportunity. It's something

1278
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 1: that I've always done, so I just think that someone

1279
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: really willing to take that chance because it is going

1280
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 1: to be a gamble no matter what. Hey, man, listen,

1281
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: You've been more than gracious with your time, obviously coming

1282
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 1: off an incredible season. A lot of emotion. Uh that

1283
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 1: that was that was kind of UH put into it.

1284
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: But I appreciate you sharing with everybody your journey and uh,

1285
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 1: let's catch up soon and talk some more ball. Okay,

1286
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: I definitely appreciate it, and congratulations on all your success. Man.

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01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

1288
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports

1289
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app

1290
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: search f s R to listen live. Man, I hope

1291
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: you enjoyed that as much as I did. That was

1292
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 1: great my thanks to David Vanderpool. And of course we'll

1293
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: have continue to have more interesting people covering the NBA.

1294
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: We'll start to get into some more NBA draft stuff

1295
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks, as we're about littles than a

1296
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: month away from the NBA Draft. I got great intel,

1297
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: great insight into you. Some guys that you're seeing on

1298
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: draft boards being rated higher or lower than actual NBA guys.

1299
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: Thinking we'll have on some of my friends who like

1300
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: to evaluate said players. In the meantime, you can check

1301
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: on my daily radio show that's three to six Eastern time,

1302
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,600
Speaker 1: twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio or the

1303
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app. And we appreciate you listening to

1304
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: the All Ball Podcast. Make sure you download, subscribe, and rate.

1305
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: Tell a friend tweeted out, send it to him on Facebook.

1306
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: Whatever you want. Uh, this is a great place, a

1307
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: great place to have it. Thanks for listening. I'm Doug

1308
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: gott Leap. This is All Ball.