1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I heart Radio. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: You're sitting atop the legendary group. I'm the CEO. Which 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: of the jobs you've had best prepared you for this job? 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: Probably in shoveling Manua when I was when I was 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: twelve years old, I searched you well for a lot 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: of jobs. It has I mean, I'm only how being sarcastic. 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you've got to get in These 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: are not glamorous jobs, at least they shouldn't be. If 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: you're running a company like this and you feel like 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: your job is glamorous, then you're probably not doing the 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: right things. I love rolling my sleeves up, getting in 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: there and doing the hard things, and sometimes that is 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: akin to shoveling. But that's just what you've got to do. 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman, and welcome to Math and Magic. Stories 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: from the Frontiers and Marketing. We explore the analytical and 16 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: creative side of marketing, and our guests covered the spectrum, 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: from anyone who uses or touches marketing to people who 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: claim it in their job title. Today's guest is Tim Castree, 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: who has a fascinating story and actually split his career 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: between the US and his native Australia. He'll hear that 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: accent in a minute. Tim is the relatively new North 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: America CEO of Group M, the WPP parent company that 23 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: owns and operates some of the best known names in advertising, 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: mind Share of Media com, WaveMaker, Essence, and Saxas. Tim 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: was born in Melbourne, Australia, traded shoveling manure for riding 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: lessons at age twelve. Is that right? That's probably the 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: first indication of his incredible deal making skills. He did 28 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: not go to college. Insteady started as an advertising cadet, 29 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: whatever the hell that is, and we're gonna explore that soon. 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: He went on to an amazing career in advertising that 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: had him ping ponging between the US and Australia across 32 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: a wide range of jobs and agencies. CEO LEO Bernetta 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: and Sydney from George Patterson Partners, CEO of Media Vest 34 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: in the US, Managing director of Video Bology, CEO of 35 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: m E, c CEO of wave Runner, all that, and 36 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: he's only what years old? Three? What a career And 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: we want to dig into and I'm dying to know 38 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: about that Advertising cadet deal. But first we want to 39 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: get you in sixties seconds, So just give us the 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: first thing that comes to your mind. Cats or dogs, dogs, 41 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: hands down, puzzles or board games, puzzles, Instagram or Twitter Instagram, 42 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: kangaroos or koalas, oceans or lakes, oceans New York or Sydney, 43 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: New York, Melbourne or Sydney Melbourne. Sunrise or sunsets from sunrise. 44 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: Libraries are museums, u museums. Riding horses are doing yoga. Yreka. Now, 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: smartest person you know g I worked with this guy 46 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: and Evan Handling had group M. I think he got 47 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: a six hundred and he now he's at your strategy office. 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: It sounds like the whey he got for the chief strategy. 49 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: Childhood hero Batman, first job delivering newspapers. Craziest thing you 50 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: did for love, Craziest thing I did for love? Oh boy, 51 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: what have I done for love? I've done a lot 52 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: for love. I don't think they're crazy, They're mostly desperate. 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: I think more than crazy. Okay, we'll give you a 54 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: passold that historical idle. Probably jesus proudest career achievement, getting 55 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: my first job proudest personal achievement choosing my wife quote 56 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: to live by Life's too short. Worst fashion trend you've 57 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: participated in, Oh, facid washed jeans were pretty tragic. They're 58 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: coming back. I know they're coming back. Hang on to 59 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: You'll get to make our own mistakes, my generation to 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: the next. What would be the title of your memoir? Fuldham? Okay, 61 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: let's jump into it. You had decided on a career 62 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: in advertising it as I understand it, age fifteen, you 63 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: did a paper or project in school and that's such 64 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: on this path. What on earth was that project? It 65 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: was a one day event where they brought in three 66 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: or four business leaders. They organized a competition where we 67 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: had to launch a business. We got put into teams 68 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: and I was the leader of our team. We decided 69 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: we were going to import these T shirts from Hong Kong. 70 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: We had to source them and market them in our 71 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: little high school business plan, and I just loved it. 72 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: One of those business leaders that was in he worked 73 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: for Done in Bradstreet and he said come in and 74 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: I'll show you around now. So I remember taking the 75 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: train into Melbourne. There's an hour away on the train, 76 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: and I spent a day with him, and I got 77 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: home that night and said to my mom, I'm going 78 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: to work in marketing or advertising, and it just it's stuck. Well, 79 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: it's a great story. So you started as the advertising cadet. 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: What is an advertising cadet? I think I was the 81 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: first and only ever advertising cadet. This wasn't a long 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: line of cadet ships, but it was basically a way 83 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: to give a break to a high school kid who 84 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: was in a family situation where he couldn't afford to 85 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: go to college. Moment said, look, you need to go 86 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: to work for a few years. That's what the family needs. 87 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: So I was working in a supermarket after school. I 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: thought the girl who worked in the Delhi was kind 89 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: of cute, and I was showing off to her juggling 90 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: watermelons in the supermarket. Two watermelons, not free, and this 91 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: area manager came around and she said, what the hell 92 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 1: are you doing? And get back to work, And and 93 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: about an hour later, I was on my lunch break 94 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: and she came and talked to me and she said, 95 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: I was sorry, I'm so hard on you. I said, no, 96 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: no problem, I shouldn't have been juggling watermelons. And we 97 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: got talking and we hit it off. Her name was 98 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,119 Speaker 1: Margaret Kim, and she said, well, you're about to graduate 99 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: high school. What are you doing? I said, I don't know, 100 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: and I explained my situation how I needed to go 101 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: out and work, and she said, what do you want 102 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: to do? I said, I really want to work in 103 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: marketing and advertising, and she said, well, you know, we 104 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: have an advertising department here at Safe Way. Why don't 105 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: I make some phone calls and see if there's anything 106 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: they could do for you? Lo and behold. He called 107 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: me back three days later and said, you know what, 108 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: They've just decided to launch this first ever cadet ship program, 109 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: and why don't you apply for that and I'll see 110 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: if I can help you. And sure enough, I applied 111 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: and I was given this cadet ship, which was basically 112 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: working in the internal advertising department of Safeway Supermarkets and 113 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: loved it. About a year into it, the internal advertising 114 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: department got absorbed into Leo Barnett, So I moved from 115 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: Safeway into Leo Barnett about a year after I started, 116 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: which is a whole other story. And you want to 117 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: hear that, Yes, I do. I do want to hear that. 118 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: So I was in this cadet ship and they were 119 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: waiting to give the contract to Leobennett. A bunch of 120 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: folks they took into the agency, A bunch they let 121 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: go and moved into other departments, and I was the 122 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: last person they hadn't resolved. My story is basically a 123 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: long litany of people who gave me breaks. And there 124 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: was a guy who ran advertising. His name was John Simon, 125 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: and John was saying to the CEO of Leobennett, you've 126 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: got to take this guy to him. He's fantastic. He's 127 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: a young guy. And they said, look, we just we 128 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: don't know what to do with the advertising cadet and 129 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: so we don't need him. John was adamant about it, 130 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: and they went back and forth on this for weeks 131 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: while they were negotiating the contract. We got to the 132 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,239 Speaker 1: final day where John was about to sign the contract 133 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: to give them the account. It was still unresolved, and 134 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: he said, look, I'm not sign until you give him 135 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: a job. And he held the pen and he sat 136 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: and waited. Took him about ninety seconds after that, I said, fine, fine, 137 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,559 Speaker 1: we'll give the kid a job. And then he signed 138 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: the contract. And that's how I was what was their 139 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: j Well, they basically brought me in a similar capacity 140 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: in Leo Bannett. So they said, we'll take him on 141 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: for two years and we'll move him around to all 142 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: the various departments from production to creative to account management 143 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: and media. They didn't have programs like that at the time. 144 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 1: But my boss there was still of my best friends 145 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: to this day, a woman named Melinda Gertz. She went 146 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: to Northwestern and they've transferred to the Melbourne office of 147 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: Leo Burnett from the Chicago office. Melinda just said, well, 148 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: I'll take him and I'll redesign what we used to 149 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: do at Leo Benett and Chicago. I'll just make a 150 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: little training program for one and so that was where 151 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: they designed this kind of program to put me around 152 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: in each of the departments and learned the ropes of advertising. Well, 153 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: you did really well, So you must have impressed somebody. 154 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: What did you do in that advertising codat job that 155 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: so impressed them that you began to move up in 156 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: the world. I had a real work ethic. When you 157 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: grow up in a working poor family. I mean a 158 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: lot of people who have that experience, they burn, you know, 159 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: they really burn with ambition and a drive, and I 160 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: had that as well. You know, a lot of fuel 161 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: from my childhood circumstances really pushed me forward. So I'd 162 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: say it was a real combination of work ethic God 163 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,119 Speaker 1: gifted me with a good brain, the gray matters always 164 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: worked pretty well, and also real willingness to take risks 165 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: and put myself out there. I'd be constantly making proposals 166 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: and recommendations that were far beyond my pay grade, far 167 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: beyond what I knew. But I really tried hard to 168 00:07:58,280 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: make a difference and to have an impact. And I 169 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: think they noticed that. Did growing up in those circumstances 170 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: really drive you into your success? Absolutely did for the 171 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: first ten or fifteen years of my career, and also 172 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: because I hadn't gone to university, a ton of insecurity 173 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: that came with it. If you'd asked a lot of 174 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: people who knew me at that time, if I was 175 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 1: in any way an insecure person, they would be stunned 176 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: to learn how deeply insecure I was. You skip college 177 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: that bought you four years earlier starting your career. Did 178 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: that turn out to be a competitive advantage to be 179 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: there before your peers were there? It turned out to 180 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: be an advantage in the end. Yes, I think it 181 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't happen today. I graduated high school and the idea 182 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: that you would get into a white college job without 183 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: university was already a pretty far fetched idea. Because Australia 184 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: is such a small market. Melbourne was such a small market, 185 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: you had to do so much, so I would work 186 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: across departments on dozens and dozens of ad campaigns. When 187 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: I first moved to the US, I would work for 188 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: a year and a half on one television ad for Spaghettios. 189 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: How do you work eighteen months on trying to make 190 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: one Spaghettios television add I don't know. But the US 191 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: have been a great one, arguable. But the year before 192 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: I've done thirty there was a lot of volume, and 193 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: I think a lot of that volume helped me to 194 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: learn the ropes pretty quickly. Do you find in the 195 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: US that it meant less that you hadn't gone to college. 196 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: I feel it meant more. I was quite and secure 197 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: about for a while, and it was really only in 198 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: my middle thirties that I really wrestled the insecurity to 199 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: the mat and really started to find that deep sense 200 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: of confidence and to give a greater sense of permanence, 201 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: Like I was always worried, you know, that someone was 202 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: going to take it away. They'd find out where I 203 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: was from and find out how I'd gotten here and 204 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: take it all away. And it was only in my 205 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: mid thirties that I really transcended that. So when you 206 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: look at someone today and they didn't go to college, 207 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: do you go a while I need to give them 208 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: a chance they're gonna work harder, or do you say 209 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: you should go to college. I have a very strong 210 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: ethic around education, and I'm quite adamant that my kids 211 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: are going to go to college. Statistically, you see where 212 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: the outcomes are. I think the real challenge we're dealing 213 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: with at the moment is the amount of debt that 214 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: kids are coming out of school with, and it's really 215 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: questionable how valuable it is. So when I think about 216 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: my own kids, I want them to go to college. 217 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: And I opened their five two nines on the day 218 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: before each of them were born. That's been the ethic 219 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: I've had around it. But when I think of our 220 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: group M and what we're doing, we are increasingly looking 221 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: at alternative ways to get kids into jobs that don't 222 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: require four year degrees. There's a lot that happens in 223 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: the world of advertising and media that shouldn't require a 224 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: four year degree, and certainly no point in enforcing kids 225 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: and saddling kids with all of that debt in order 226 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: to get there. So as we think about increasing the 227 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: diversity at group M how we think about those kind 228 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: of entry level roles is a big part of we 229 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: think how we're going to solve the longer term diversity 230 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: challenges we're having in the industry. They'll have it around 231 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: a long time and there's a big club of us 232 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: who didn't finish college, some that didn't go to college. 233 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: My great boss and mentor at Warner Communications, Steve Ross, 234 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: I think he went for two weeks and there was 235 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: once of job posting that came down and said college 236 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: degree required for some very low level jobs. So I 237 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: call it the HR department just tweak a little bit. You're, 238 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, our chairman, so you know I didn't go 239 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: to college. Here thinking he's not qualified to do this job. 240 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: So they center banks to college degree preferred. So let's 241 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: go back to Australia a little bit. Talk about your childhood. 242 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: You said you really couldn't afford to go to college, 243 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: needed to go to work. What was the family life 244 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: like and how did that shape You'm from a working 245 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: poor family. My dad was a school teacher in school principal, 246 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: and my mom was a stay at home moment we 247 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 1: had five kids on a teacher. Sorry, when we lived 248 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: in rural Australia at that point was always pretty precarious. 249 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: Then when dad left the family home at twelve, and 250 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: really he left, I mean he was gone, you know, 251 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: and mom had never worked a day in her life, 252 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: so she was pretty much left to figure out how 253 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: to provide for five kids. It was very challenging time. 254 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: We really were living in the margins financially, but at 255 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: the same time just an incredible spirit and sense of 256 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: love that filled the home. It was very fun filled 257 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: and love filled home. And so that, more than the 258 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: economic circumstances, is what shape who I am as a person. 259 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: You grew up in a loving but tough childhood. What 260 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: lessons do you repeat to your kids about that? The 261 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: main thesis of the way we parents is having love 262 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: and compassion for everybody. They're certainly showing that seven and 263 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: nine years old. They blow me away sometime. Do you 264 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: go back to Australia lot. Does the family go back 265 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: they feel rooted or just you rooted there. No, my 266 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: kids are they're very American. I mean, they sound like 267 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: they're from Brooklyn and they've got really thick, little New 268 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: York accents. But they loved being half Australian and so 269 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: they've really connected to that part of their identity. Both 270 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: of my parents have passed away, so a lot of 271 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: the impetus to go back every year or twice a 272 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: year has gone away, So we go back a bit 273 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: less frequently these days, but the kids certainly love getting 274 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: back there, and they certainly identify with the part of 275 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: them that's Australian. So let's jump back to advertising. You 276 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: started as the advertising CODEBT everything you'd bear the CEO 277 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: job like this. I wear my ambition pretty lightly. It's 278 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: more of this internal drive, I guess, because where I 279 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: started in Melbourne, it was such a small place. So 280 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: by twenty four I was running a bunch of accounts. 281 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: The guy who ran it, you know, he was only 282 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: twenty nine running the operation. So at that point the 283 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: gap between me and the top didn't seem that large. 284 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: So I was always kind of set on being a CEO. 285 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: And then I decided to get to the US because 286 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: I just thought Australia are pretty small pond, so I 287 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: thought I'd come here. How is it different than you 288 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: had imagined it as a kid? I mean, this is marketing. 289 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: It was more fun and less corporate than I thought 290 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: it would be, maybe because I didn't really know, so 291 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: I just had this association with people in business, you know, 292 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: wearing tires and being all formal, even in marketing advertising. 293 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: I had this idea that it was going to be 294 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: quite stiff and formal. In many ways that appealed to me. 295 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: I was always more drawn to the establishment and being 296 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: anti establishment, and maybe that's because of where I grew up. 297 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: I always thought there was this club that I was 298 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: trying to get to. So I was actually more navy 299 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: than pirate in my sensibilities growing up. So I thought 300 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: when I got there, i'd be I'd be joining this club. 301 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: And I was quite pleasantly surprised to see how fun 302 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: and spirited and as a fun club corporate it was. 303 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: What lessons did you learn about marketing from that early 304 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: part of your career that's still stick with you today, 305 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: And it's sort of a foundational belief you have. At 306 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: the heart of it, this is all about making emotional 307 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: connections with people and that hasn't changed even with everything 308 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: we can do today, with the power of all of 309 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: our data and technology and targeting tools and this and this, 310 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, it's about moving 311 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: people and the only way to do that is at 312 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,599 Speaker 1: the level of emotional engagement. You have a reputation of 313 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: being a change agent, that you see things a different way. 314 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: You think that comes from the fact that you were 315 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: in this job jack of all trades where you could 316 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: do everything and you could see things in a very 317 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: fluid way, and that if you had jumped into a 318 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: big advertising agency and been put in a very specific job, 319 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: you would not have that ability. Or do you think 320 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: that's an in needability you have? I think it's probably 321 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: bored out of my early drive in my career in 322 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: the sense that to me, stasis felt like going backwards. 323 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: Also had a bit of a chip on my shoulder 324 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: about it, and a healthy kind of disrespect for it 325 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: as well. It really came from this kind of inner 326 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: drive to constantly be moving forward, evolving and changing. You 327 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: went back and forth Australia, US, then you went back 328 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: to Australia came back to the US. Why did you 329 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: go back to Australia. I got engaged and my wife 330 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: is much smarter than I am. On the night I 331 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: asked her to marry me, I said, will you marry me, Kristen? 332 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: And she said absolutely if we live in America? And 333 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, I'm talking about a high leverage moment. 334 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: She knew it was coming and she was ready for me, 335 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: and she had me over barrel. So really the reason 336 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: we went back to Australia was because I realized it 337 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: was going to be my last chance to live there, 338 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: and my parents were getting elderly. My brother who passed 339 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: away from AIDS, he was quite sick at the time, 340 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: and so he's the window of time working really go 341 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: and reconnect the family. So we made the deal that 342 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: we go live in Australia for three years and then 343 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: come back to New York to start a family. Tim 344 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: There's so much more I want to get into, from 345 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: your management style to how you convinced all of Australia 346 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: to turn off their lights for an hour. But before 347 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: we get into any of that, let's take a quick break. 348 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to math and magic. We're here today with 349 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: Tim Castree, looking at your career and listening to folks 350 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: talk about you. The big question is what are you? 351 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: Account person, A creative, a technologist, a quant a business person. 352 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: How do you think of yourself? I'm a client guy. 353 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: Everything else for me, all that other stuff that I've 354 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: learned and done is really about increasing my ability to 355 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: help clients solve their business problems with the tools that 356 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: we have in at w p P in a group. 357 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: And but the first door I walked through the way 358 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: I identify myself is first and foremost as a client person. Well, 359 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, you've got a great reputation, and the first 360 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: time I heard about you, you were so of the 361 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: spectacular client person. But all this other stuff you've done 362 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: didn't make you a different client person than they had 363 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: seen from other places. All that other experience gave me 364 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: kind of more utility, so I didn't have to go 365 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: to everybody to help understand clients out of self problems. 366 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: I'd still bring in specialists and experts, but I knew 367 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: a lot more directly myself about a lot of parts 368 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: of the business, so that was really helpful. The other 369 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: thing that's helped me here is the culture of Australian business, 370 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: the directness, the way I've run my career. I'm trying 371 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: to be Australian. You know, there's a there's a strength 372 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: and I think the egalitarian style of Australia which has 373 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: really helped me here. But only two thousand six you 374 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: became CEO of Leo Burnett Sydney. The agency was named 375 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: Australia's Agency of the Year. That heavy stuff. I mean, 376 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: here's somebody who didn't go to college started shoveling manure 377 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: and now you're the CEO of Leo Burnett and you're 378 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: wrecking as the agency of the year. Wow. It was 379 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: awesome because it was my first CEO job and it 380 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: was also the company where I started, you know, the 381 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: company where Melinda gave me that little training program and 382 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: I was back, you know, still working with me Linda. 383 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: It was a very very proud moment for me. Did 384 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: it change your view of you? It didn't change my 385 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: idea of me. But it was the time when I 386 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: worked most on my mindset and thinking around my right 387 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: to be in the leadership job, starting to realize that 388 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: this is legit. I've earned this and it's not that 389 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: somebody's gonna wake up tomorrow and figure out that I 390 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: fooled him and I got here, but I really deserve 391 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: to be here. The doors must have opened at that 392 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: time to agency of the year, away goes, who is 393 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: this guy? How old were you at the time, early 394 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: thirties maybe thirty three? Did any doors open or surprises 395 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: as to what opportunities came your way as a result 396 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: of that? Not directly. I have this m O two. 397 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't answer the phone when it rings. 398 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: When I commit to a job, I say I'm going 399 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: to do this for three years, and I'm going to 400 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: do it for three years, and I'm not going to 401 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: think about anything else. And then maybe two and a 402 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: half years, I'll think is this working for me? And 403 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: if it's still working for me, I really recommit to 404 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: the next three years. Talk about creativity in this period 405 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: and Leo Burnett get an example. The best campaign I've 406 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: ever worked on. One of the reasons I moved to 407 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: media was after we'd made this campaign, I don't what 408 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: bell was left was a cinical moment, and that was 409 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: the formation of a campaign called Earth Hour. The World 410 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: Wildlife Fund came to Leo Bannett and said, we want 411 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: a campaign about climate change. The chairman at the time 412 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: a great man named Nigel Marsh who's become a dear friend. 413 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: He said, well, let's not make you some mad, Let's 414 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: make a movement. Let's convince everybody in Sydney to turn 415 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: off their lights for an hour and make a symbolic gesture. 416 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: So this idea of Earth Hour was born. But not 417 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: only did Nigel do that, he worked with the w 418 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: w F and he took it to the Sydney Morning 419 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: Herald with the editorial desk and said, look, if we 420 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: launch this, will you get behind it from an editorial standpoint, 421 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: because we want to convince everybody in sne you to 422 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: turn out their lights. Everybody this started thinking like this 423 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: is an impossible thing. But then by the time we 424 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: got thousands of businesses, millions of people, We saw the 425 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: central Business district of Sydney go dark and it was 426 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: such a powerful symbol and statement and the earned media 427 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: and everything that came off of that was phenomenal. And 428 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: then it expanded. So Earth Hour is still going and 429 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: at last count, about seven thousand cities around the world 430 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: take part in Earth Hour every year. It's the single 431 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: biggest movement of its kind that has ever been created, 432 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: and it was really about our agency, the Sydney Morning 433 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: Herald and the World Wildlife Fund coming together and flipping 434 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: the brief on its head and say, let's do this 435 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: a little bit differently. Hundreds of millions, perhaps you know 436 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: more than a billion people around the world have been 437 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: influenced by that campaign since it launched out of our 438 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: little old office of Leo Benette, Sydney ten or twelve 439 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: years ago. Well, congratulations, So what was your first real 440 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: management job? Then? When I came to the US. My 441 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: first job working at foot Cone and Belding as an 442 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: account director. It was more formal, and I had a 443 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: team and there were kind of set ways of work 444 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: and I had to fit into a bit more of 445 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: a structure. What was your management style? Equal parts cheerleader 446 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: and tough taskmaster. So we've always tried to give a 447 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: lot of support for the people that have worked with 448 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: me and around me, but I also have really high 449 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: expectations of them as well as I do with myself. 450 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: It's not you to be my boss either, you know. 451 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: I have high expectations of my boss, and I have 452 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: high expectations of myself and have high expectations of the 453 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: people that work for me. They're always trying to do 454 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: that with a lot of love and compassion and fun. 455 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the standards won't move, 456 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: you know, they're fixed. A lot of people probably listening 457 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: today who are new managers, what do you wish somebody 458 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: had told you and you stepped in that job? Managing 459 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: yourself is the most important thing. It's more important than 460 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: how you manage other people. And I think a lot 461 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: of people come into management jobs and they think, like 462 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: the field general is how they manage the troops, But 463 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: it's actually more than anything. It's the role modeling and 464 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: the behaviors and expectations you have of yourself that I 465 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: think the most important and influential management is seventy how 466 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: you manage yourself, your focus, and how you manage others. 467 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: What I really want is to encourage the people that 468 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: I managed to also manage themselves very effectively and have 469 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: high standards for themselves. And if everybody operates that way, 470 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: then collectively the company will keep doing better. You're known 471 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: among people who know you well for being calm and 472 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: handlings for us well. That related to yoga. Yoga helps, yeah, 473 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: and having a great wife and partner at home. You know, 474 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: I do stay pretty calm and then I do my 475 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: freaking out when I closed the door at night. How 476 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: often is that? Not too often happen? Yoga yoga certainly 477 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: helps a lot. So how does that pit in your 478 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: management style? I try and keep people calm and help 479 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: them to reframe things. When they're in a crisis or 480 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: having an emergency. I help them to rethink and reframe it. 481 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: Let's not talk about what's happened to get us to 482 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: this point. I hate the blame culture that exists in business. 483 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: Let's just think about the situation we're in and what's 484 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: the best course of action to take from here. There's 485 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: a great sense of urgency, sometimes emergency and crisis that 486 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: can get generated in companies every single day. We also 487 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: work in a service business where clients have high expectations 488 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: of us and can be very, very demanding. So I 489 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: actually find it's not about these big moments. It's actually 490 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: about how do we stay calm and focused on what's 491 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: next in the day to day based on the dozens 492 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: and hundreds of things that get thrown at us. Take 493 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: a second about how you think about mystiques, how do 494 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: you think about risk descent? My job is really to 495 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: define the problem clearly and what we're trying to accomplish, 496 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: and then bring the right team together to solve that 497 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: problem and empower them to get it wrong. And it's 498 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: not that I don't have answers. Sometimes I know what 499 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: the answer is going to be or needs to be. 500 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: But the way you build consensus and alignment around that. 501 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: There's a quote one of my coaches told me once, 502 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: which is people will tolerate your conclusions, but they'll only 503 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: act on their own conclusions. So how do we lead 504 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: a team to really get them to draw the right 505 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: set of conclusions that will enable them to act and 506 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: move more quickly to solve the various challenges and opportunities 507 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: that we have. Really, that's what I'm trying to do 508 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: is create that setting for success where teams can come together, 509 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: collaborate and solve problems they're going to help move the 510 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: company forward. I've also found as I've gotten more senior 511 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: in my career, I tend to get more and more 512 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: and more of the problems coming to me that others 513 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: don't know what to do with or can't solve. So 514 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: by definition, my job has become a problem solving job 515 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: because if it's easy, it doesn't get to me. It's 516 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: solved before it reaches me. That's one of the surprises 517 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: I think for people to step into the CEO job 518 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: is nothing's fun, it's problems. So let's pass forward a 519 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: bit to your CEO days at Media vest Us, you 520 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: had huge clients, hard That Monderly's, Coke, Microsoft, Sprint. What 521 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: did you learn from them? Were great, great companies. I 522 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: mean I learned something different from all of them. You 523 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: know Laura Desmond right, I worked met Laura. Laura was amazing. 524 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: What I learned from Laura about really how to manage 525 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: these large clients with complex stakeholder environments, and how to 526 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: really get align with them and how to move them forward. 527 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: I mean each of them the context was slightly different. 528 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: But what I loved about all those clients was they 529 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: were all sophisticated, They all had a lot of ambition, 530 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 1: and it was all about how do we partner more 531 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: closely together to help these clients get where they're going 532 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: to reach their objectives and how do we align the 533 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: agency around that. Laura was really the master of thinking 534 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: in those turns. What is the secret of that. It's 535 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 1: quite simple, but it's really about understanding the higher order needs, 536 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: benefits and strategic priorities of those companies. How do we 537 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: link what we're trying to accomplish through the lens of 538 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: media back into those higher order strategic needs and objectives 539 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: that exist in the company more broadly. And that sounds easy, 540 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: it's sometimes hard to do, but that's really the art 541 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: of bringing really good partnership and alignment to these big 542 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: client companies. Another switch in a difficult position, but are 543 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: there are two or three cmos that you've worked with 544 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: that just really stand out as changing your life or 545 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: your view or learning something from them. There's two, once 546 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: from Australia and one from the US. The CMO of 547 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: Hines in Australia, he became a great friend and he 548 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: was the person I go to for advice. He was 549 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: an amazing CMO. And then I loved Chris Capasella at Microsoft. 550 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: Microsoft is a company that really got under my skin. 551 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: I'm still very very passionate about that business to this day, 552 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: and a lot of that was to do with my 553 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: time working on Microsoft and engaging with Chris Capasella and 554 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: the whole marketing team there. I thought they were fantastic. 555 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: Two thousand and fourteen, you veer off to go to Videology, 556 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: a video ad tech platform, sort of a departure from 557 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: your career. Why and how. The impetus for it was 558 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: that when I CEO of Media VS, I was technically 559 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: in charge of our programmatic offering and services and I 560 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: didn't know shit about it. I didn't know anything. This 561 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: we saw as being the future, and I thought I 562 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: have no right to be leading this part of our 563 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 1: business at the moment. We had great people in it, 564 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: but I felt like what was going on in the 565 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: world of technology and data was going to bring about 566 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: such tectonic change that I needed to go into it 567 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: to really learn it. And that was really what precipitated 568 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: the decision to leave agencies for a while and go 569 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: and work at Videology, as I wanted to work in 570 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: a product company where that's all they did every day 571 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: and understand it from the level of not just the services, 572 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: but really the technology and the products around that. So 573 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: go into work in a technology and product company was 574 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: really my m b A and ad tech and to 575 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: this day it was the equal best decision I ever made. 576 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: The first was making the move from creative to media, 577 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: and then the second was dipping out of media for 578 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: a while to go and learn the ad tech space deeply. 579 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: It was a great much did you learn about the technology? 580 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: Was a more product or was it more technology or both? 581 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: I learned a lot about both. I also learned about 582 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: how a product come and he's operate different from service companies. 583 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: When you've got to scale a platform and make that 584 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: work for thousands of end users, that's very different than 585 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: delivering service to clients in our business. Now, what a 586 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: media agency looks like today and needs to operate a 587 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: lot more like a product company and not just a 588 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: service company. So it was very very helpful experience. People 589 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: forget sometimes to give enough credit to the agencies and 590 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,479 Speaker 1: how much change they've absorbed. But the rate of change 591 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: in the next team years needs to pick up. If 592 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: we only change at the rate we did in the 593 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: last five, we'll be going backwards. A lot of managers, 594 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: your friends, my friends are talking about the silos. How 595 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: do you rethink an organization that's not based on silos? 596 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: The challenge that I think a lot of companies have had, 597 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: and I think we're falling into this mistake as well. 598 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: A group them in the past is thinking that it's 599 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: a structural solution to our silo problems, because that's the 600 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: way it looks on an ORC chart. It looks like 601 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: silos P and l's individual leadership. And I do think 602 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: the structural work is important, but there are six, seven, eight, nine, 603 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: ten other levels that you've got to pull in order 604 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: to break down those internal silos. The way we think 605 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: about incentives, the way we build culture, the types of 606 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: leaders we choose, the values we have as a company. 607 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: Structures really the bricks, but what's the mortar that's going 608 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: to hold that all together and help you to be 609 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: more cohesive as a company. And sometimes if I go 610 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: to work in group or a team, I give them 611 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: a challenge. I say, go help us solve this problem 612 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: and come back to me with some recommendations. Very often 613 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: part of that brief will be you have to think 614 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: about every other level you want to pull to fix 615 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: this problem before you give me a structural solution. Will 616 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: do structure last? So in many ways I kind of 617 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: take that away to force them to think more deeply 618 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: about how are we going to drive some change here 619 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: that isn't just about shifting stuff around. On the ORC chart, 620 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: do you find people in the organization are looking for 621 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: the new organization or are they afraid of the change 622 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: that it might bring to them? Probably both, And it 623 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: might depend on where you are generationally and how much 624 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: as an individual in your career the silos or power 625 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: structures might serve the manager individually. But I'd say on 626 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: the whole people inside Group AM are hungering for us 627 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: to continue to evolve. There is so much intelligence and 628 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: talent in the company and such a desire for us 629 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: to pick up the rate of change that I'm pushing 630 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: on a lot of open doors, and that's been probably 631 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: the biggest surprise coming into my job is the volume 632 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: of people into a group them that are excited to 633 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: keep reinventing our company so we can be more relevant 634 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: in the future. You really care about clients known for that, 635 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: and you care about your clients brands as much as 636 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: they do. What are the dangerous to day to brands 637 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: that we didn't have and how are you addressing that? 638 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: I think the biggest danger to brands is in a 639 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: world where there's now infinite shelves. You know, there's no 640 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: constraints in terms of the store shelf anymore, and an 641 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: infinite number of ways to connect with them. I think 642 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: it's very very easy for disruptors to come in and 643 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 1: get their business up to a certain size, and that's 644 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: where a lot of these DTC businesses are coming in 645 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: and really reinventing these kind of value propositions and taking 646 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: a slice off a traditional, big client base. And I 647 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: think it's very hard for these DTC companies to come 648 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: in and break through to the scale had a lot 649 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: of our clients are operating that, but it's not as 650 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: hard to get to thirty fifty hundred a hundred and 651 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: fifty two hundred million dollars of sales. And when that 652 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: happens across a number of fronts, you know, that's really 653 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: starting to take a slice off a lot of the 654 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: business that our traditional clients have had. And so I 655 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: think it's the aggregation of a lot of these DTC 656 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: competitors that are the biggest threat two brands. I look 657 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: at Mark Pritchard, who I'm a big fan of, and 658 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: look at the successes he's had recently where he really 659 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: rethought the marketing process and media and partners, and look 660 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: for more efficiencies and effectiveness. And I think he just 661 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: had his third or fourth quarter of record results. Do 662 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: you think that's a model Others are looking at Marcus 663 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: being a pioneer, and I think he was the first 664 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: serious big CMO leader to use his pulpit to call 665 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: bullshit on a lot of the received wisdom that had 666 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: started to grow up around digital marketing in the digital ecosystem. 667 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: He was the first to say, you know, I'm not 668 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: sure that watching this digital video ad with the sound 669 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: off for a nanosecond of three pixels in view is 670 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: really going to help move the needle on my business. 671 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: So he started to take a much more balanced view 672 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: in terms of the relationship between traditional media and new media. Obviously, 673 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: digital marketing is really important, but you know, it's not 674 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: the panaceater everything, and we still need scale. We still 675 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: need to engage with people emotionally. We're a big business, 676 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: so we need a law of large numbers. We can't 677 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: target our way through every business problem and challenge that 678 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: we've got, and some of these ad products that exist 679 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: in the digital ecosystem aren't as good as some of 680 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: the traditional ones. There was a while where there's a 681 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: lot of pressure on marketers to feel and look more digital. 682 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: There was a little bit of a sense that, hang on, 683 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: if I'm recommending radio and out of home and other 684 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: more traditional medias and not as much of this new 685 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: digital stuff, am I going to look like a dinosaur? 686 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's sometimes led a lot of marketers 687 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: to overreach into new things before they really understood the 688 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: impact they could have at scale. So Mark has been 689 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: a great leader in that way. Radio business. We love 690 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: it because he went back and discovered radio and billboards 691 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: and things like that as well. Talk to me a 692 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: little bit about the overall decline and TV because that 693 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: used to be the foundation of the reach of any 694 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: campaign and now it doesn't have that. So how do 695 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: you think that changes the world of right? And I'm 696 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: a traditional broadcast media is getting older. Video is very 697 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: much alive, but there's been a lot of fragmentation from 698 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: traditional television into a multitude of IP addressable and over 699 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: the top places. Even much of it doesn't carry ADS, 700 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: and then the bits that do haven't had a measurement 701 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: standard around them and targeting standards around them, so we 702 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: can accrue audiences in those places with the same level 703 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: of predictability and measurement that we have had in traditional television, 704 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: and I think it's forcing us to reevaluate the concept 705 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: of video reach. Having primacy alone, video was the top 706 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: of the stack because it represented site sounded motion. But 707 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: as I say, if that's now a digital video with 708 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: the sound off for a fraction of a second, we 709 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: know that's not equivalent to a thirty second television ad. 710 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: So that's opened the door for us to really rethink 711 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: how we do reach planning, not just for television or 712 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: video first, and then we add on the other channels later, 713 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: but let's really understand the impact and roll that all 714 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: channels can play across our display, audio and video formats. 715 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: And then how do we want to rebuild plans to 716 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: maximize the combination of reach and engagement that we know 717 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: we need to move the needle privacy and data double 718 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: edged swords. How are you thinking about it for your clients? 719 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: These will be the defining issue for the next ten years, 720 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: and it's a defining issue now. So we are playing 721 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: our role in the industry to really try and lead 722 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: the way when it comes to brand safety, when it 723 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: comes to viewability and performance standards, when it comes to 724 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: driving consistent measurement. These things are really important. The biggest 725 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: client response we're seeing to the threat and the challenges 726 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: around your potential privacy regulation is the importance of direct 727 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: customer relationships and first party data. There's not a market 728 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: out there that is not looking to build more direct 729 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: customer relationships, to buy DTCs sts and to have that 730 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: direct permission and pipe into their customer basis so they 731 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: can really both market directly without that mediation, but then 732 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: also to have a rich data set that they can 733 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: use to optimize the performance of a lot of other 734 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: work they're doing a cross channels let's talk about data. 735 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: Is it the new team all stakes? And are you 736 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: expecting every media partner to bring those capabilities? It's absolutely 737 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: table stakes, and it's important that the agencies, the clients themselves, 738 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: and the media owners are all making the investments that 739 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: they need to make to set us up for a 740 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: world of audience driven optimization and audience driven targeting and 741 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: getting beyond this age demo tradition that has really drove 742 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: the media for the first a hundred years of its existence. 743 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: So let's change subjects a minute. You're committed to making 744 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: the world better. You're a co founder you and your 745 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: wife actively involved in A Place at the Table. Tell 746 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: us little bit about the mission and a little bit 747 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: of history of how that gets going and the impact. 748 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: A Place at the Table with the name of a 749 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: movie it's some friends of yours developed. Tom Colikio was 750 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: that executive producer and Laurie Silverbush was the director of 751 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: that film. I saw that film and the same time 752 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: I've been talking to Christen and thinking about I do 753 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: need to start to use my relationships and talents to help. 754 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: We made the decision to focus on hunger because that 755 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: was a big part of my childhood, was insecurity around 756 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: food and hovedy in general. I was discussing this another 757 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: total coincidence. My life is full of them, with those 758 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: lifting weights with a personal trainer. One morning I was 759 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: describing to Jesse this revelation I've had, and she said, oh, well, 760 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: Laurie is a good friend of mine. Let me connect 761 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: with Laurie. Just total coincidence. You happened to make that movie, 762 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: and so Jesse connected me with Laurie in my head 763 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: lunch one day and said, look, I loved your movie. 764 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: What you've done with the movie is really persuasive. The 765 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: problem is that's a documentary and so the people who 766 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: see it will already be moved by the issue, and 767 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: not many people will see it anyway, So why don't 768 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,919 Speaker 1: we take the concepts and the themes you've built into 769 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: the movie and then think like a marketer and package 770 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: those themes up for more mass consumption so we can 771 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: start to move hearts and minds around the issue of hunger. 772 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: And that's really where A Place at the Table was born. 773 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: It was the idea of taking the themes and concepts 774 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: in the movie and turn it into an ongoing campaign 775 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: and marketing program aimed at changing the way people think 776 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,439 Speaker 1: about the hunger issue in America. Talk to me about 777 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: the progress and how you measure the progress. We've made 778 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: really good progress. This is a small organization. We don't 779 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: raise very much money. We think there's so much great 780 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: work happening in the establishment that exists around anti poverty 781 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: and anti hunger organizations. What we're trying to do is 782 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: to help fuel them to communicate more effectively. And so 783 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: the biggest thing we've been doing in the last twelve 784 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: months is doing a lot of work with an organization 785 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: called Frameworks, which is really teaching us how to talk 786 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: about hunger that motivates and moves people away from the 787 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: stereotypes and into a different mindset around what solutions the 788 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: stereotypes are, What the stereotypes are that you need to 789 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: solve it with charity. People need to pull themselves up 790 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: by their bootstraps. They've done it to themselves. There's not 791 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: a lot of empathy around the issue, and so we're 792 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: trying to help people understand that there are structural and 793 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: systemic things that are driving the issue of hunger, such 794 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: as the gap between rich and poor, the way we 795 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: think about wages and minimum wage, the lack of equal 796 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: access to opportunity that's really now determined by where you're born, 797 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: the color of your skin, other things like that. Systemic 798 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: barrier is the number of people who are hungry where 799 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: there's a working parent in the household. This is not 800 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: about unemployment. There's a lot of hunger in working homes, 801 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: and so helping people understand the full nature and to 802 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: mention of the problem has been the first step. And 803 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: then also helping people to understand how do we talk 804 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: about this issue differently so they don't default to these 805 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: unconscious stereotypes that they have about hungry people which can 806 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: get in the way of treating the empathy that they 807 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: need to have for people who are hungry that will 808 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: ultimately move them to more action. More congratulations on the 809 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: work there. I know it's rewarding but also impressive. You 810 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: were once quoted as saying, I can share you a sheep, 811 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: cook you a pretty good meal. So that's sum you up. 812 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: There's certainly two truths. I can't cook you a good 813 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: meal and I can't share a sheep. Any other harbies 814 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: or passions. Yoga is a big passion, and really I'm 815 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: just so focused on my family at the moment. Honestly, 816 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: there's nothing I can imagine I want to do more 817 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: than spend an afternoon together as a family. You're a 818 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: smart man and a lucky man. Let's end with math 819 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: and magic. Where we began from Australia to the u 820 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: US and all the international work you've done. You've seen 821 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: Greek folks, the analytical ones and the creative ones and 822 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: everybody in between. All the people you've seen. Who's the 823 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,919 Speaker 1: best mathematician? You know that analytical tape. My favorite mathematician, 824 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: Scott Ferber, who's the CEO and founder of Videology, The 825 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: thing I love about Scott is he had an understanding 826 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: and a model and a concept for how to use 827 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: data to optimize advertising that was very, very different. I 828 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: think he's right about his thesis, which is it's not 829 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: about bidding and in real time, it's about yield management. 830 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: How you think about the problem in the context of yields, So, 831 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: how do we think about optimization of advertising in the 832 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: way that UPS thinks about filling trucks or American Airlines 833 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: thinks about yield management for an airplane versus auction based 834 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: dynamics has had a massive influence on me. So Scott 835 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: Furber is my number one favorite mathematician I've worked with. 836 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: Of all time magician working in creative agencies, I've worked 837 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: with many. My favorite is John Haggerty, who is uh 838 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, an old time When I was running account 839 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: management at bb H in New York, John was still 840 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 1: the active credit director and chairman, and so to work 841 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: directly with John on campaigns and to see how close 842 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: how he applies his craft, I learned so much from 843 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: John in such a short period of time. He deserves 844 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: the statue he has in the industry. Tim, Thank you, 845 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,439 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Bob here's three lessons I take 846 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: away from this episode with Tim Castrey. One, regardless of 847 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,760 Speaker 1: all the new digital tools we have now, the bottom 848 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: line is make emotional connections with people. To remember that 849 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: just as important as managing your team is managing yourself. 850 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: And three, if your job feels glamorous, you're probably not 851 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: doing it the right way. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob Pittman. 852 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening 853 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. 854 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to 855 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling are Wonderful talent is 856 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: no small feat Nikkiatore for pulling research, Bill Plax and 857 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, 858 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and 859 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until 860 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: next time,