1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: What I'm welcome in. I'm dog gotlib this is all ball. 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: This is part three of our conversation with Steve Lapis coach. Lappis, 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: of course, began his career as uh, you know, a 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: high school coach, remembers dad. His dad owned a flower shop, 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: there were Greek immigrants. All of those elements of the 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: story are are fasted. But where we are after part 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: two is things aren't going as well as Villanova as 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: they were when he first got there, and all of 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: it traces back to the Old Dominion game, his first 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: n c A terming game has head coach at Villanova. 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: Obviously years later, now we know he ultimately lost his 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: job and went to U mass How did he get there? 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: Take a list in part three of my discussion with 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: CBS college basketball analysts a long time head coaching college 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Steve Lapps. YEA, the last couple of years, what was 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: that like for you? Where you're trying to get it back? 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: The lead is unbelievable and what are good years elsewhere? 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: Are not nova? Nova good years? Right? Like you missed 19 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: the tournament, you missed the postseason, Like one time you 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: played in the n c a A. You play in 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: the n I t It's not like you're, you know, 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: dragging up the bottom of any big East. But I 23 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: know the stress and the strain of trying to get 24 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: it back weighed on you heavily. What were the last 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: couple of years later, Well, you know what we had. 26 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: You know, Look, you can you can lament things all 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: you want. That we had a game against Miami, who 28 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: was ranked in the top ten um by second to 29 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: last year in Villanova. They we we missed the n 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: A Tournament by a game. And Mike janc was on 31 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: the committee, told me that that we were the first 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: team left out and uh, we had a game against 33 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: Miami where at that time, how about this, At that time, 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: you couldn't they made a shot after the buzzer. The 35 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: referee called it good and it was clearly after the buzzer, clearly, 36 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: but you couldn't go to the monitor in those days. 37 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: They changed a rule the next week. The next week, 38 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: you can look it up the rule that it's the 39 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: first time they changed the rule in the middle of 40 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: the season. It was in January. We lose it home, 41 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: clearly after the buzzer. I remember our Art Highland was 42 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: there at the game. Was the supervisor officials, and I 43 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: went the zerk and this particular official, like there's only 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: one official that I won't look at to this day, 45 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: I won't say his name, and he was he did 46 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: the game. The other two officials actually apologized to me 47 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: the next week. This one guy never did um and 48 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: it causes an n s a turn. But they were 49 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: like number ten the country at that time. Leonard Hamiltons 50 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: had it gone and the game was over and they 51 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: made up. We were up to and they threw a 52 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: shot in from forty feet and was after the buzz 53 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: and they called it good. Next week they changed a 54 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: rule anyway, So you know, yes, stuff like that happened, 55 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: But what are you gonna say? And you know, you 56 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: take a look when when I left, When when I 57 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: left the Big East for at least ten or twelve 58 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: years after that, I was the fifth winning is coach 59 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: in the history of the league. Six And you can 60 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: name the guys that were ahead of me. It was Calhoun, Thompson, Carna, Seca, 61 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: Rollie and you know, yeah and be him. Obviously I 62 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: was six for like I hadn't coached in the league 63 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: in like twelve fourteen years and I was still six 64 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: so we won a lot of games, and even my 65 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: last two years we won games in the Big East. 66 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: I think the only year I was under five in 67 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: the Big East was my first year, and and maybe 68 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: that year we went twelve and seventeen. I'd have to look, 69 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: but we won games in that league. But that year 70 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: we didn't make it. The following year we had Michael Bradley. 71 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: Again we missed. We were one of the first teams 72 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: left out, and that was it was time, you know, 73 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: time to go. So again, you know, if if if 74 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: old dominion doesn't happen and we go to on the 75 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: Elite eight that year or Final four, you could withstand this. 76 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: But and that's what I try to tell people. They say, 77 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, I'll be I'll be talking about uh a 78 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: coach and say, you know, okay, I'll give you an example. 79 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: John Calipari is safe. He's a great coach, he's don't 80 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: believing job. But that lost to St. Peter's gives a 81 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: little crack. It just cracks the armor a little bit. 82 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: Jeremy and and and now the clocks on. No, he's 83 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: a great coach, he should be fine. But if they 84 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: don't make the Final four this year, could be in 85 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: a little crack and if you can you if they 86 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: win the national championship this year, crack is going, you 87 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I never was able to 88 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: get rid of the crack. The crack just got a 89 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: little bigger, a little bigger, a little bigger. And that 90 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: was in no I mean listen, and and sometimes you 91 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: don't even I mean, like, look, I was in southern 92 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: California for the whole Jim Herrick era. And had they 93 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: lost when Taia said he made the shot against Missouri, 94 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: it's probably fired the next day because they had consid 95 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: could they had never been able to get to the 96 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: final four. They lost a Yukon I think the year 97 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: before year before that was the Elite eight or a 98 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: couple years for that, they got beat by forty by Indiana. 99 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: They just and then there would be early tournament losses. 100 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: Year before that they went won the tournament and they 101 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: lost to Tulsa and they just lose the tolls. They 102 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: got run off the court by Tulsa. And so I 103 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: I don't think he ever escaped that because even after 104 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: he won the title, Remember they got him for they 105 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: they componed him, they got him for like receipts you know, 106 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: sense reports, you know, but really it was that they 107 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: would they would flame out early in the tournament except 108 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: for and that never sat well with them. Um so yeah, 109 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: I completely understand that. Um okay, So what what is 110 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: it like at the end when like, was your contract up? 111 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: Did you know it was over because you didn't sit 112 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: out of here? You went to take me through the 113 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,119 Speaker 1: You're in February, You're you're trying to get it going, 114 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: and yet there's the will will you keep your job? 115 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: And then you end up getting another job? How did 116 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: it all take place? The reality? Well, here's the reality 117 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: that I gotta be honest with you. It didn't even 118 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: enter my mind that I was in trouble at Villanova ever. Ever, 119 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: didn't enter my mind. Yeah. I was upset that we 120 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: you know, we we we wouldn't go to the term, 121 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: But it never entered my First of all, I got 122 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: extended the year before, two years, okay, so my second 123 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: to LA at the end of my second my before 124 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: going into my last year, I had gotten extended. Okay, 125 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: I now had three more years, had three years on 126 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: my contract, they extended me. Okay. So Plus I was 127 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: at a school that had three coaches in seventy five years. 128 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: So I always felt like, yeah, I mean listen, yeah, 129 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: if I go you know, twenty, yeah that's not good. 130 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: But you know, we go twenty and eleven and go 131 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: to the n I t they gotta fire me for that. 132 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: So when I got the word that he wanted to 133 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: talk to me, all of a sudden, this thing came 134 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: all of a sudden. Now, maybe I'm an idiot. Maybe 135 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: I should have known better, you know what I mean, 136 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: But I was blindsided. And I know that may sound crazy, 137 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: but I was completely blindsided and it was like really, 138 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: So I get the phone call. Gene v Philippo was 139 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: the Boston College athletic director now at the time, and 140 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: he calls me, says, Steve, I just wanted you to know. 141 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: I think I think you're in trouble because I've in 142 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: trouble for what he said, and I think you're gonna 143 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: get fired. I said, what, get out of here? Why? 144 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: I mean really, I thought there was no way Villanova 145 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: would would would do that, and I resigned, you know, 146 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, I resigned. Um, but I said I'm in trouble. 147 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: I said, how could that be? So he says, you know, listen, 148 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: I'm good friends with Bob Markham. Think about it. They're 149 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: looking for a guy you mask. He's really interested going 150 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: to you mass, going to you mass, what you're talking about, 151 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: going on, staying and going over all right, get a 152 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: phone call from President Secretary I wanted to see me 153 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: the next day, called me in and he's the guy 154 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: who hired me, and he said, uh, you know, I 155 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: was been debating this. I was thinking about letting you 156 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: have one more year. But I decided I think it's time. 157 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: I said, time for what he says, for you not 158 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: to be the coach here anymore. So I said, so 159 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: the athletic director, who was a nice guy, had nothing 160 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: to do with him. And I believe that Vincent cashtro 161 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: was in the office with him, three of us, and 162 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: he said, he turned you know, so I said, you're 163 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: firing And he said, did anybody ever say the word fire? 164 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: Did I say fire? He turns to the athletics right, 165 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: he says, I say fire. I said, oh, so I 166 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: can coach the team. He said no, No, you're not 167 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: gonna coach the team. He said, so not being fired, 168 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: He turned to go to I never said that, So 169 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: you know, you could get the drift there Doug. So 170 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: that was but what happened, and so I resigned and 171 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: I had three years left on my contract at the time. Now, 172 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: you gotta understand, contracts in those days were not now, 173 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: contracts were based salary, you know what I mean. In 174 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: those days, there was no uh you know, huge buy out. 175 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: There was no uh you know you were getting your 176 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: the sneaker money was separate, the TV money was separate. 177 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: So three years, it was three years, no question. It 178 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: was three years base salary. And that was it. And 179 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: I was My whole family was distraught. I mean I 180 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: thought I thought in the house that I had that 181 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: for sure. My daughter was gonna walk down the stairs 182 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: in her bridle down. That's how we felt. My wife 183 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: was she none of us ever forgotten it, and she 184 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: maybe even more of the rest of us never forgot it. Um. 185 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: So it was. It was. It was rough, very rough, 186 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: and so I probably I made a big mistake. I 187 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: should not have gone to you mass. I should have 188 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: sat out and a year, gone to TV for a 189 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: year and waited. Because I I had I had a 190 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: good name. Still, people thought I was pretty good coach, 191 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: and I won a lot of games, even though we 192 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: didn't win the tournament, but we want a lot of games, 193 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: so I probably would have gotten should have sat out 194 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: of year. And that's the problem with this business is 195 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: that you have to make really important decisions at very 196 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: emotional times. You know, it's a very emotional time, the 197 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: end of the season, and now you're gonna make this decision. 198 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: And so um, and I was on the type of 199 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: guy this is me? And I tell I tell my 200 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: son this, because he's in coaching coaches at Wagner. I said, 201 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: you gotta worry about your family, but you gotta worry 202 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: about your career. And I'll explain this. I don't want 203 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: to make it sound like I'm harsh or anything. I 204 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: was really concerned. I was really concerned about my daughter 205 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: who's going into high school, a staying for a year, 206 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: then pulling her out of high school and taking her 207 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: somewhere else. Guess what, Yes, it's not ideal, but she 208 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: would have been fine. She would have been fine. But 209 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: if you let those things come into the come into 210 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: your professional decisions too, it just makes things that much 211 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: more difficult. And I and I look back now and 212 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I was worried about that, 213 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: And that's one of the reason why I took the 214 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: um ses. I wanted to get the kids settled. He 215 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: can't worry about that. They'll be fine. You raised them good, 216 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: They'll be They'll It might be tough, it might be 217 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: some tough moments, might be some tears, no question. But 218 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: this profession is so hard. If you take all these 219 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: things into account, then it's really hard. It becomes that 220 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: much harder, and so you gotta try and simplify it 221 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: as much you can. I didn't, and I ran to 222 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: U Mask and U Mass was a very good school, 223 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: amates the beautiful town. But you know, the timing wasn't good. 224 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: They fired Bruiser, who they loved. And I don't blame him. 225 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: He had done a really good job there and he 226 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: was a Calipari guy. And here comes it. Just it 227 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: was never good. It was never good. So um, I 228 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: made an emotional decision at an emotional time, and I 229 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: should have sat out, and I probably would have got 230 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: myself clear my head, do TV or whatever for a year, 231 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: do nothing, and then you know it back in. But 232 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: I was worried about the family and the continuity for 233 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: the kids, and you know we live here now. Then 234 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: I gonna get a job somewhere else. We're gonna move 235 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: and she's gonna be a sophomore in high school. She's 236 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: gonna freak out. But you can't worry about those things. Yeah, 237 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: you gotta. I mean, obviously, if you gets sick, you're 238 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: gonna worry about that first. I get that. But stuff 239 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: like this, they'll they'll be fine, they'll be fine. Um 240 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: When did you know you shouldn't have taken it? Um? 241 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: After when when Bob markhom left Bob Marcom hired me 242 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: and he left after my first year and he went 243 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: he was gonna retire. He left to retire, and then 244 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: he ended up taking another job. But that's when I 245 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: and I had five athletic directors in the four years 246 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: I was there, So it was really upside down. And uh, 247 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, I knew. I knew pretty quickly it was 248 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: gonna be tough. We didn't, you know, we got a 249 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: couple of kids in our first And here's the crazy 250 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: thing about you mask just to big a long story short. Um, 251 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: you know what happens, Doug. If you don't get a 252 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: great recruiting class your first year when you take over 253 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: a program, now you've got no chance to be good 254 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: till year four. You know what I mean. And what 255 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: happened was our first class we got good players, imploded 256 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: because one guy got caught stealing and some things happened. 257 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: We had to get rid of a couple of guys. 258 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: So we did start all over. So now I got 259 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: a great recruiting class my third year. So in year 260 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: four we go sixteen and eleven, we go nine, We 261 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: go nine and seven in the Atlantic ten all freshman Softwars. 262 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: We beat Yukon they had never mad Rudy Gay. We'd 263 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: beat Florida State by twenty five points. We beat the 264 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: g W, was ranked at g W with all freshman 265 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: soft Wars. And the guy fired me. And I remember 266 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: I was in this office. The day was fine, I said, 267 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: and I very blunt. I said, you know, you don't 268 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: know what you're looking at. You see look I understand. 269 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: He said, well, look, nobody's coming to the game. Do 270 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: you understand nobody's coming to the games? Because you guys 271 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: are looking at when John Caliparia people coming to these games. 272 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: They were number one in the country and people were 273 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: driving from Boston ninety miles in the middle of the 274 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: winter and snowstorms to get here. I get that. But 275 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: if you're just good, this is a tough place. And 276 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: and it's they're not coming because of me. They're not 277 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: coming because we're not good yet. But we're gonna be 278 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: really good. We got Stefan Lastman as a sophomore, We 279 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: got ray Sian Freeman as a sophomore. These guys are 280 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: gonna be the two best players in the league. And 281 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: they ended up being that. And no, he fires me, 282 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: and I said, you know what, and then the whole 283 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: thing just blew up. And then Travis FOURD came in, 284 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: and you know, he went to the n I T 285 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: three times and he got fifteen million at your alma mater. 286 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: He got out. He got out, got out quick when 287 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: and Lanning get Landing, get out, get out of as 288 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: as as quickly as you can. Fox Sports Radio has 289 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all 290 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and 291 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app search f s R 292 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: to listen live. Obviously that you said, how the nova 293 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: thing still hurts? What about was it? What was what 294 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: was the How would you describe the emotion when they 295 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: let you go at umss um? Yeah? Different, I kind 296 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: of I my whole attitude towards being on the line 297 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: changed when I was a U Mass because I'd gotten 298 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, what happened to Villanova happened, and so I 299 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: I my last year a U Mass, I was a mess, 300 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: you know. I mean the pressure was really and we was, 301 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: like I said, we were sixteen eleven. We had us 302 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: and if if we'd have made the N I T 303 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: were probably a game short of the N I T, 304 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: they would have had to keep me because that was 305 00:16:54,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: in the contract. But h um, you know, I did 306 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: something stupid there. I renegotiated by contract after my third year. Uh, 307 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: because they you know, I should have just told him, 308 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: you know what you want to get rid of me, 309 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: now just pay me? And I didn't do that. So 310 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: it was you know, I made a lot of mistakes, 311 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: there's no question, but I wanted to coach and that's 312 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: all I cared about. And I really thought we were 313 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: gonna I really thought that we finally had the program 314 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: in the right direction. I know we did, I know 315 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: we did. And uh uh, the the emotion was different 316 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: then because now I'm sitting there saying I might be done. 317 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't. After after Villanova, I wasn't worried 318 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: about being done. Um, Like I said, I could have 319 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: sat out of year and I got it. I think 320 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: I could have got something good, really good and uh, 321 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: you know, because we had a good reputation, we didn't 322 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: have uh violations and graduated everybody and you know whatever. Um. 323 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: But now after you match, I was like, I could 324 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: be done, you know, unless I want to go coach it. 325 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: You know, I'm certainly done from the level I want 326 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: to coach at. UM do I wanna you know? And 327 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: my wife would say, well, if you really want to coach, 328 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: you'll go coach it. Uh you know a school in 329 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: the Northeast Conference or something like that. I said, you know, yes, 330 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: and no, I said, it's like you know you It's 331 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: like it's like you taught at Harvard and now you're 332 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: gonna go teach community college. You know what I mean. 333 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's that easy to do. I 334 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: had guys, I had pros, you know, would be in 335 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of them, and it was like, I don't 336 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: know if I want to do that. And that's when 337 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: I decided to try the TV thing. And you know, 338 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: thankfully it's it's worked out. CB has been great to me, 339 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: and that's kind of where it is. You know, like 340 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: you do play more golf now. You're a different guy 341 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: now then than you are even when you first got 342 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: into TV and radio. But I I always think, like, guy, 343 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a heart for former. It's hard for 344 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: me and I haven't been a Division one coach to 345 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: be there on the sideline because you actually missed not 346 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: just the winning locker room, you kind of missed the 347 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: losing locker room as well. Like that misery. But you're 348 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: in it together, and how do we fix it? What? 349 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: What are those emotions like, especially when you're doing it, 350 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: you know at the level you're doing it with the 351 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: n c A tournament, in somebody's tournament championships. You know, 352 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: you you the thing that you missed. You know, you're You're. 353 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: I was part of a team from when I was 354 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: twelve years old, so all I knew was was a 355 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: locker room and being part of a team. And I've 356 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: been fortunate my whole life to spend basically you know, 357 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: except for the years I had I was teaching in 358 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: high school. But I was coaching high school, so I 359 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: mean this is all I ever did, so you know, 360 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: the first five years out, We're tough, you know what 361 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: I mean, especially when September rolls around, was like, oh 362 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? And and I you know, 363 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: and uh, it's gotten easier. And now I'm at the point, 364 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, Doug, if somebody came to 365 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: me and said, hey, you want to I would say, no, 366 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: I've gotten two used to a life of not worried 367 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: about anything three and sixty five days a year. If 368 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: I had to go back I see my son now, Wagner. 369 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: If I had to go back to that and start 370 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: worrying about something three d sixty five days a year, 371 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: now I'm sixty eight, I'm not I'm certainly not thinking 372 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: of doing that now. So it's gotten better, do I say? 373 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: But I still miss you know, like uh, Wagner beat 374 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: Temple a couple of weeks ago at Temple and I 375 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: was there for the game and it was Donald Copeland's 376 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: first game the head coach there as the head coach, 377 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: and it was in the locker room after the game, 378 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: and it was it was unbelievable, you know what I mean, 379 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: Corn sold on him, and I mean it was just 380 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: being in that locker room was like, uh, you know, 381 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: I don't know you you know you've been in those things. 382 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: It's something that's so special, and you're right, it's also 383 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: specially being in a losing locker room because you're sharing 384 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: something you're so emotionally vested with all these guys. It's 385 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: a being part of a team. You cannot look why 386 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: is Tom Brady still doing what he's doing? Because he 387 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: loves being part of a team. That's why, no question, 388 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: no question. That feeling last night, we like we're recording 389 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: this on Tuesday, that feeling of leading a comeback, and 390 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: he saw him like running off the field right, because 391 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: there had to be a moment early in that game 392 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: they're down sixteen to three where he's like, what am 393 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: I doing? You know what am I doing here? You know, 394 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: going through a divorce, he's in his forties, he's got 395 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: more championships than God, what am I doing? Then you'll 396 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: win the game. You're like, let's do it again, Like, 397 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: I'll do it a y'all's a lifetime, can't because because 398 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: the energy of finding out like it's a it's kind 399 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: about a math problem, right, figuring out how and then 400 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: you all of a sudden you complete the math problem 401 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: with a bunch of guys. He's like, we did it, 402 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: let's go do it again. It's so amazing, amazing. It's 403 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: a drug. It's a drug, I say, I say, you 404 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: know now, I don't want using the term is obviously 405 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a bad drug. And I 406 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: see it's like crack, it's you know what I mean, 407 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: it's I guess that's a that's a crack. Does the 408 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: people just you know, you can't you can't walk go 409 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: away from it. But that's kind of how it is 410 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: the coaching. I mean again, a lot of this is 411 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: from talking to you and our time together. But I 412 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: felt like my dad used to tell about all the time. 413 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: It's interesting. It doesn't feel like there's the same camaraderie 414 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: in the profession that there used to be. Now I 415 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: could be wrong because I'm in California and it's not guys. 416 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: I know Philly guys are still really really close, like 417 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: they do an amazing job. Uh, there's a bond there 418 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: even though they're competitive with each other. Um, but is 419 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: it is it from yours by your estimation? The same 420 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: as when you were coming up in terms of the 421 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: camaraderie in coaches, even when you're at rival schools. You know, 422 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I think those guys in the 423 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: Big East are relatively tight. Um. Now that's probably the 424 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: because I live in Big East Territory and most of 425 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: the games I do for CBS and CBS Sports Network 426 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: a Big East game, So I think they gotta I 427 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: think those guys are relatively tight. I had to say so. 428 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: I don't know how it is in the rest of 429 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: the country, but I think those guys, I mean, I 430 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: think Jay had a pretty good relationship with a lot 431 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: of those guys. Um, And I know Ed Cooley is 432 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: really tight with Sean Miller, So I think that those 433 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: guys have a pretty good relationship. Do uh, what do 434 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: you think Jay does well? He's doing a game with 435 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: meats to borrow night, the Villanova Penn game. Where will 436 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: they be as good as you and I were together? Ah, 437 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: that remains to be seen. Are we're gonna have a 438 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 1: debate about seeming the ball? I don't know about that 439 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: we have you know, those are the things that came up. Well, 440 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: you don't, you don't. You don't. You didn't teach you 441 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: guys to see in the ball? Yes, I did. That's 442 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,239 Speaker 1: what we're talked about. But I'm saying that's on time. 443 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: I had that conversation on air with you. We're talking 444 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: about you gotta seeing the ball when they catch it. 445 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: They just get it there somehow. I think they I 446 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: think they practice it when they're holding when they're holding 447 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,479 Speaker 1: the basketball. You know, it's interesting. I won't I won't 448 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: say the name of the executive in but there was 449 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: one time wherever you and I kind of got into 450 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: it on air over something, and it was like halftime. 451 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: We both like took our headsets off and walked away, 452 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: and he came up to me and he's like, are 453 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: you okay? Are you okay? And I go, yeah, I'm fine. 454 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: Why He's like, well, you know you and coach and 455 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: was like, but that's kind of how basketball people are, like, 456 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, you'll argue about things right and get mad, 457 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: which not really mad, you just want to win the argument, 458 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: you know. And I thought it was really it was 459 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: like I was my favorite times when we would have 460 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: the like the coach and the player and you like, 461 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: you don't know what you're talking about, and I said, no, 462 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: you don't know. You like that. That was it was good. 463 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: But it's it is interesting that none basketball people don't 464 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: understand or maybe can't sort of grasp the It's not 465 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: an argument because you don't like the other person. It's 466 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: just an argument because that's you're just kind of hot 467 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: blooded and you want to be right. That's truly what 468 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: it's about. And because there's so many ways to skin 469 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: a cat in this business. You've got you got, you got, 470 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: you got Bobby Knight in the Hall of Fame. He 471 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't play Zone in a zillion years. You've got Jim 472 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: Beeheim and all of Fame. He wouldn't play man and 473 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: man in a zillion years. You know what I mean. 474 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: There's just so many different ways to skin a cat. 475 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: For sure, that's not a good term either, but you 476 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's but now listen, no one 477 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: thinks they're actually skinning a cat. Not offensive anyway. You've 478 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: gotta be careful what you say. I understand, I understand, 479 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: I understand, I totally understand. I don't want you to 480 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: lose your profitable job. Okay, So who is who's the 481 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: hands down funniest guy during your time in the business. Oh? Wow, 482 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: hands down funniest guy. Like as I would say, in 483 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: in media. This is not in coaching. I'm asking you 484 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: about coach in media. Like, it's pretty hard to stop. 485 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: I nag, right, Like the guy, it's just funny, and 486 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: it's not even telling jokes. He's just funny. And I 487 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: know of other people that are enjoyable, like most of 488 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: everybody you're with are enjoyable to be around. And there 489 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: are guys that are are funny or whatever, but no 490 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: one to that level. Um. I mean in my time 491 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: around coaches, I mean Mike Dean's and he's a nut, 492 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: but an amazing story storyteller. Fran McCaffrey's a nut, but 493 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: an amazing storyteller. Um My dad used to tell me 494 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: about Judd Heathcote and how funny Judd Heathcote uh was. 495 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: But in your circle, who's the guy who's like he 496 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 1: holds court. He's the new age Valvano in terms of 497 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: entergy entertainment value when you're around. Yeah, I mean, I 498 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: don't know if he's new age, but when I was 499 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: coaching p J. Carlssim was definitely up there. Yeah, he 500 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: was one of those guys. I think it cool. He 501 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: is a lot like that. Yeah, it cool. He is 502 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: a very you know, positive funny guy. Um, those are 503 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: the two that I can think of the top of 504 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: my head. Should guy should coaches should be would be 505 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: a prerequisite to coach high school ball. I said, because 506 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: you start in high school. My coach, coach Sutton started 507 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: in high school. Frances start in high school. My dad 508 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: started high school. Hube Brown starting high school. It feels 509 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: like there is something to the to the coaching at 510 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: that level which gives you something that other guys don't have. Yeah, 511 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: I think I think that's true for a lot of things. 512 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: You know, first of all, you know, uh, you have 513 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: kids that aren't obviously aren't as good at players, So 514 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: you learn not to take anything for granted. You learn 515 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: to try about trying to develop guys from scratch. You learn, 516 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: you know, I know, for me, I was only an 517 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: assistant in college level for four years, which is relatively little. 518 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: When I got my job in Manhattan College though, when 519 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,360 Speaker 1: I was thirty four, you know, I was. I I 520 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: ran a bench, you know, as a high school coach, 521 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I called timeouts. I So 522 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: when I got the job in Manhattan, I was. I 523 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: think that definitely helped me be ready. I think a 524 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: lot of these guys assistance, not that they can't be successful. 525 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: Of course, a million of this have been successful as 526 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: head coaches. I think it helps them if they'd have 527 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: coach in high school just to get used to, you know, 528 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: having disciplined and having to call timeouts and having to 529 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: bench this guy or do it. So there's a lot 530 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: of there's a lot to be said of what you 531 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: can learn coaching high school team. You mentioned um sitting 532 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: a guy out, that that's a fast thing. One I 533 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: had a conversation with a coach and I told him, 534 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: like coach settings, I never get his phrase to me, 535 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: which is like I'll lose this game if you you know, 536 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: I don't care, I'll lose the game. Okay, we're gonna 537 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: do it my way, right, And so many coaches and 538 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: I can think of another coach he's at up an 539 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,959 Speaker 1: a C C school who at his previous school, like 540 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: he was suspending I for a half a game, and 541 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: I was like, what are you doing it just to 542 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: spend him the whole game? Leave him home or better yet, 543 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: bring him dress him. I mean, don't dress him, make 544 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: him sit on the bench and watch everybody else play 545 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: like you want to you want to punish a kid, 546 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: make him watch him, don't don't, don't leave him home, 547 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: bring him, let him watch everybody else play like that 548 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: will piss him off. And he wouldn't do it. And 549 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: I was, like, I told him. The coach said, there 550 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: was like, no, you gotta be willing to lose a game, 551 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, to get him do your way? Like are 552 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: you willing to sacrifice the game or even two to 553 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: get a guy to get people to do it your way? 554 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: And that doesn't seem to be the case as much. Um, 555 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: what's that balance like when you're the head coach knowing that, 556 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: all right, if I'm gonna lose this, you know, I 557 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: might lose the team if I don't sit him, but 558 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose the game if I don't play him. Hey, 559 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 1: I made I won't I won't say any names, but 560 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: I made a I made a big mistake at you, 561 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: mass um, accepting some things from a guy that I 562 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: shouldn't have And uh, you know, because you're thinking, well, 563 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: this guy is one of our best players. But you 564 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: know what Doug and I told my sons. I said, 565 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: I said, the good thing. My father was a florist. 566 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: He couldn't he came from Greece, he couldn't really help 567 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: me with these decisions. I tell my sons always keep 568 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: this in mind. Nothing, nothing is more important in the 569 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 1: game of basketball than chemistry. Nothing, not talent, not nothing. 570 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: So don't ever make a decision because a guy is 571 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: really good that's going to affect the chemistry and good team. 572 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: Could you think that him being good is gonna matter 573 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: more because it's not. And uh, I should have bounced 574 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: the guy and I didn't, and uh, and finally in 575 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: the end, he gets hurt. My last year, I can't play, 576 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden we take off. So you 577 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: know it's Uh, that's a tough one. And I will 578 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: tell any young coach that don't let anything get in 579 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: the way of the chemistry. If this guy's not toing 580 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: the line, if this guy's coming late, if this guy 581 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: is doing whatever, if this guy's talking back, guess what, well, 582 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: nobody ever talk back to me. So I don't want 583 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: to say. I don't want to make a sound like 584 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: that's what it was. I was. I was, I was 585 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: one of these guys done my assistance. This is a 586 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: funny story. I would drive the nuts. I would take 587 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: the guy out of the game, right, so the guy 588 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: would naturally took kids would make a face. You know, 589 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: they don't want to get take it out of the game. 590 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: So I would say, hey, don't make a face. Don't 591 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: make so my assister tell me, coach, why are you 592 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: looking at him? You took him out of the game. 593 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: Don't look at him because you know you're getting You're 594 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: getting mad for no reason. Don't look at him. Just 595 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: take him out of the game. Be like Jim bad. 596 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: You take him out. They're all mad whatever, you don't 597 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,239 Speaker 1: even care. That's how you should be. But you know 598 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: it's uh, don't let anything affect the chemistry. Ever. Yeah, 599 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: that they're taking them out and not look at him, 600 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: I don't agree with. Like I think like a lot 601 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: of times they know why they came out. But that's 602 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: like that's the moment where you can where you can 603 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: actually coach them, right. And I mean, like, look, jas 604 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: thing is they just say attitude and it's telling you 605 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: your attitude is not right. It's kind of an amazing 606 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: thing that they were able to tap into it. Nova 607 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: um but um. But it's you know, it's it's interesting, 608 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 1: Like I want I want to see how you react. 609 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. That's how I was. My assistant 610 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: would say, coach, coach, you know all, it doesn't get 611 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: you upset. Don't look at them they want I said, well, 612 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: that's what I do. You know, Kyle's gonna go through 613 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: kind of that same thing that you went through. It 614 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: at you mass right, like, man, that's no job now. 615 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: And I know they've had injuries and they just got 616 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: wit More back, but man, Jay right, No, it's what's impossible. 617 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: It's impossible, you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean, 618 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: don't be wrong that it's it's possible to do probably 619 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: impossible to do what he did again. And so he's 620 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: just gonna have to you know what, what do we 621 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: always say? You gotta be yourself, do the best you can. 622 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: He's a great guy, he's a great coach, but he's 623 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: he is definitely in an unenviable situation, as is John Shire. 624 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe worse for Kyle Neptune because you feel like 625 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: Duke has the wherewithal to keep even look at the 626 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: recruiting class he got and yeah, Villanova can't win more, 627 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: but they got four of them, you know, so it's 628 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: a little easier at two. I know, it's not gonna 629 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: be easy. You're following Mike Trajetski, I get it, but 630 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: a little bit easier, I think than what Kyle Neptune has. 631 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: Can you believe Bahan's still doing it? That's unbelievable, unbelievable. 632 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: Why Why? Because you know, here's a guy and I say, 633 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: he is in sweat the small stuff, and so for him, 634 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it's a good way from the 635 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna saying he's just passing time. The guy coaches, 636 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: but he's always been a guy that you know, I 637 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: don't he was never watching you know, ten game fields, 638 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: and and he'll never dispute it because he knows it's true. 639 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: They don't do shoot arounds. They were like one of 640 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: the first time they don't really they don't really scout 641 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: because because no one really plays the way that they play, 642 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: so they don't really scout because like, what's the point. 643 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: That's why, honestly, I feel like they get better in 644 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: the second half of games because they're scouting the first half, 645 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: like the first half, they're trying to see what you're 646 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: doing against their own and now they actually you know, 647 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: do some coaching at halftime, but still to have to 648 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: go to the office every day, you have to do 649 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: practice every day, to have to do all the media 650 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: you do, and like, look, I get it, you get 651 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: he can do Florida most the rest of the year. 652 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: But this is a it's a three sixty five job, 653 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: even if you're not grinding the way everybody else grinds. Like, man, 654 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: I was sure like his kids get done. He's done, 655 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: you know. Now he's like he I don't. I don't 656 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: really get it. Yeah, I mean. And not only that, 657 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: to have had the career he's yet and now to 658 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: have to listen to like people be mad and kill you. 659 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: That that definitely I wouldn't do. But you know, seventy 660 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: eight years old, you know he's a he's a different guy. 661 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: There's no question. That's unbelievable. Have you passed him as 662 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: a golfer yet? No, that will never happen. Never you guys, 663 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: we're time to play golf. You listen, Doug. Let me 664 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: explain this to you like I tell like I tell 665 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: friends of mine all the time. I said, understand this. 666 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: They said, why I can't, Why aren't you any better? 667 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: I said, Here's what I'll tell you. When I was 668 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: a kid, I played basketball ten hours a day. I 669 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 1: was a Division three player. I could have played twenty 670 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: eight hours a day, and I was never gonna be 671 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: a Division one player. It's called talent. This is the 672 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: limited talent that I have in golf, and that's who 673 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: I am. So that's it. Yeah, everybody thinks the golf 674 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: is just I don't get enough reps. What's your what's 675 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: your biggest flaw with golf? Can't drive it, you know, 676 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: weak drives, don't hit it far. That's that's my biggest problem. 677 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: My short games. Okay, I put pretty good, but don't 678 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: you know, I can't drive it if if if I 679 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: get one off to on or I'm like the ecstatic, 680 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: can't drive it. Uh. Favorite place you called a game? 681 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: You know. I I never did a TV game there, 682 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: but I did uh a radio game at Alan Fieldhouse. 683 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: That was cool. I enjoyed that big time. Uh I did. 684 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: I did radio from Cameron Indoor that was not not 685 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: as good because you're up top. Yeah you know what 686 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,359 Speaker 1: I mean. You're in the bird's nest up top, so 687 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: that's not as exactly you're on the floor. And I 688 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 1: did a game at I did a game on radio 689 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: also at the Assembly Hall in Indiana. That was pretty good. Um, 690 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: the Palestra to some to a non Philly guy and 691 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: you're obviously New York guy who became SIMS with Philly sports. 692 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: But what is other than the cool architecture? What is 693 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: it about the palestra that makes it makes it cool? Well, 694 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: what made it cool was the thing that made the 695 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: palesture the plesture was that you'd have you know, four 696 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: sets of fans in this building that you couldn't fit 697 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 1: another person in. And it was so loud. Um and yes, 698 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: but the architecture is a big party, but it just 699 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: loud and it looks like a cathedral, like you know, 700 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: I mean on the outside it kind of could be 701 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: a church. And uh, but I think it was the 702 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: the atmosphere on the inside that really really made it, uh, 703 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: you know special when the place was packed and you know, 704 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: it was a shame. The other day there was a game. 705 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: Uh they had a big five doubleheader. I don't know 706 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: if there were three thousand people there. It really was, 707 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, tough to watch. Why do you want why 708 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: has it gotten this way? I mean if it affects Philly, 709 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: like Philly was the last kind of Bastion. Right, it 710 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 1: was the last city that really cared about college ships. 711 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: Why are we at that point? Um? I think a 712 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: big thing was was what Jay Wright and Villanova did 713 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,720 Speaker 1: to the Big Five. I mean in the old days, 714 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 1: and those were always fifty fifty games. Even if when 715 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: Villanova played Penn that was a tough game. Villanova played 716 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: Sat Jels, that was a tough game. I think j 717 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 1: won like thirty nine of his last forty Big Five games. 718 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: I think that that that hurt the Big Five so much. Now, 719 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: why didn't they keep up with Villanova? I mean, you know, 720 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,399 Speaker 1: Villanova just went to a different level. And I think 721 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: that that and that never happened in the Big Five. Now, 722 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: that's what's happened in the Big Five, that Dulnov was 723 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: going to a different level. Huh Huh's interesting? Interesting of that. 724 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: If if you could, if you could change one thing 725 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 1: about college basketball, what would it be? Oh, I would 726 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,959 Speaker 1: change the transfer portal for sure. Now what would you do? 727 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: I would go back to you gotta you know, you 728 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 1: can leave, but you gotta sit out of here, and 729 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: and and and and forget all these waivers and everything else. 730 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: Like it used to be hard and fast. You can leave. 731 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna stop you from leaving, but you gotta 732 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: city here. I mean, it's not like it's not like 733 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: we used to tell kids they couldn't transfer. They could 734 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: always transfer, but you have the city here. That's all. 735 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: That's what I would do. I think that changes everything, 736 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, And and the worst part about the arguments 737 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: is like, well, you know, he's transferred to be closer 738 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: to home, Like, okay, so you get a year to 739 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: actually go home and see your folks, you know, and 740 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: like nobody saying you can't transfer home. You just can't 741 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: play basketball right away, right, That's a that's that's that's 742 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: the main thing that I would do for sure. And 743 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: then I mean, I don't know how it's easy to 744 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: say gets some control over this inn I L thing. 745 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what I mean. It's like, uh, 746 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: that's a whole other thing that that so so, so 747 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: here's my here here's my thoughts. You cannot collect penny 748 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: on n I L until you've actually played a season 749 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: for the school. That would be a good start, okay, 750 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: So just just again, it's the idea of that's a 751 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: good idea. You don't have a name image like this. 752 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: When you come into a school, right you play, you 753 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: earn a value. Somebody wants to give you money to 754 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: represent a car dealership. Right it also and you know 755 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: then if you leave again, the clock starts over at 756 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: the new school. You can transfer, but you can't get 757 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: a penny until you play the year. That's a good idea. 758 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 1: That's a really good We're solving the world's problems. Laugh, 759 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: that's what we're We're solving world's world's problems. Um uh okay, 760 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: last thing, Um, your favorite memory of calling an n 761 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: c A tournament game can be anything. Your favorite memory, Um, oh, 762 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: it's gotta be when huh um, Ron Hunter's son made 763 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: the shot against Baylor and then Ron fell off the chair, 764 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: Ron fell office a scooter. Yes, that's gotta be it. Yes, yeah, 765 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: it's the it's the little stuff, right, it's the it's 766 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,959 Speaker 1: the time move tween games. It's the the second day 767 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: after the games where you get to just meet with 768 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: the players like that stuff, and then those moments. I 769 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: remember my my first n c A tourman game. First 770 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: one I did was Wichita beat Pittsburgh. The second one 771 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: was Gonzaga. They beat Southern but with four minutes and 772 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: thirty two seconds ago in the game, the game was 773 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: tied and it's in you it's insult Lake. And I'm 774 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: doing the game with Spirodidas and We're sitting there going 775 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: like hitting each other on the arm, like, holy sh it, 776 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna call the first sixteen one like this is unbelievable. 777 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: So and you know, all of a sudden, you know, 778 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: everybody rises to their feet, southerns bringing the ball up 779 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: the court. And I was like, and I said to him, 780 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: my airs, like there are twelve thounds, Like it's like 781 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: twelve thousand Southern fans just showed up, you know, like 782 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: you know you've been on that with the old dominion. 783 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: Everybody's cheering against you, hearing for the for the upset, 784 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: and every yet we got a break. And he looks 785 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 1: at me like, and you know, spirows like the greatest 786 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: chill is dude ever. He looks at me and he's like, 787 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: all right, if this happens, we cannot fund this up, okay, 788 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: And like I'm good, Like whatever, dude, He's like, no, no, no, 789 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: we can't funk this up anyway. Because Zach end up 790 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: winning barely and then losing Wichita the next day. But 791 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: those those things are so much fun to do, no question, 792 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: so much fun to do. Um. Well, listen, you've been 793 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 1: more than gracious for your time. Whatever the over here's 794 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 1: the here's the great thing about where you are in life, 795 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: which I think you're you're getting is like whatever you're 796 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,720 Speaker 1: over under is on what the possibilities have. Your career 797 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,839 Speaker 1: was like you've hit the over fifteen times over right? Yes? Right? 798 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: Like get that you call games now? You coached it 799 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: a couple of grade schools. You went to the n 800 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: c A tournament, you put guys in the lottery you 801 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: want to be. You won the Big East tournament, right like, 802 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,800 Speaker 1: there's a there's not a lot of room on the 803 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: grave stone if you if you and not that I'm 804 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: trying to cover you up with dirt. No, I appreciate that, Doug. 805 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 1: I do. My wife tells me all the time, you 806 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,320 Speaker 1: know what I mean. I always look at it like, uh, 807 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: I say, you know I was there and I didn't 808 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 1: just quite get or get what I wanted. And she's like, 809 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: look where you grew up. You were raised by too immigrants, 810 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: and you've got to do this your whole life. So 811 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: he tells me, I don't look at it that well 812 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,439 Speaker 1: all the time, sir. No, I'm listening. I'm the same way, 813 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: like right, like I was on that Final four set 814 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: two years and like you know, like it's really hard 815 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: to watch. And then I'll get somebody like, hey, yeah, 816 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: but you're you made it. You were you actually did that, 817 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,959 Speaker 1: you know you actually did that thing, Like yeah, that's true, 818 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: and I get to do it still with Westwood. Westwood. 819 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: All right, I will see you on the road. You 820 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: got time, uh, and let's play golf this year. Absolutely 821 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: be well, my man, you too see your brother. Oh 822 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: that was awesome. Thank coach Lapis for for joining me, 823 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: for giving me so much of his time and energy. 824 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: I truly appreciate it. I remember. You can listen to 825 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: the Doug Gottlieb Show daily three to five time. There's 826 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: the end Ones podcast. Tell friends about this one. This 827 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: one I think is I'm pretty happy about It's pretty good. 828 00:44:53,320 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm gottlie This is all all