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Speaker 1: Welcome to stot to Blow Your Mind production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 1: uh so, Robert and I along with Seth have a

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Speaker 1: week coming up. I guess it's a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: from the day we're recording here that we're going to

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Speaker 1: be out. And we figured in preparation for being out

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Speaker 1: for a week, we should, uh, we should catch up

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Speaker 1: on some listener mail. It's actually been a long time

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Speaker 1: since we reached into the mail bag, and some in

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Speaker 1: the mail bought Carney. That's right. Uh, you know, Carney

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Speaker 1: has been making it through this whole pandemic thing as well.

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Speaker 1: We we were tempted to terminate his functions as a

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Speaker 1: cost cutting measure, but we found other ways to to

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Speaker 1: cut back instead. So, uh, without further ado, let's let's

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Speaker 1: bring Carney out. Now. One thing we might want to

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Speaker 1: make clear to the audience is that now we cannot

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Speaker 1: look at Carney because if we do, we will be

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Speaker 1: petrified and turned to stone. That's one of the cost

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Speaker 1: cutting measures. They've had a safety feature too removed. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so we have to we have to kind of keep

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Speaker 1: our backs turned and use some some mirror kung fu

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Speaker 1: if we want to get the messages from him. But

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Speaker 1: we're all doing what we gotta do. Yeah. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why he had the Gorgonian protocol installed in his systems,

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Speaker 1: but it's activated now, so we're stuck with it. And

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Speaker 1: it looks like this first batch of mail that Carney's

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Speaker 1: handing us is in response to our episodes about the

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Speaker 1: Moa of New Zealand, the Great uh, the Great Rattite

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Speaker 1: Cornu Copia. That we got a lot of great listener

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Speaker 1: mail about this stuff. I've noticed something People from New

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Speaker 1: Zealand really like talking about being from New Zealand. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know I would too if I was from New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty cool place. Yeah, a lot of it seems

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Speaker 1: to be Middle Earth related. I wonder if the same

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Speaker 1: kind of responses would have happened before the Peter Jackson movies.

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Speaker 1: But uh, but yeah, maybe let's die right in on

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Speaker 1: responses to the MOA, Robert, do you want to read

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Speaker 1: this message from THEO? Sure? THEO rights in and says, hi, guys,

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Speaker 1: I absolutely loved both of the MOA episodes. I'm a

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Speaker 1: Canadian backpacker currently in New Zealand, and I love listening

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Speaker 1: to your podcast while I'm at work picking raspberries. Essential work,

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Speaker 1: even during the lockdown. I especially loved learning about the

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Speaker 1: extinction and I intend to go on a research rabbit

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Speaker 1: hole about mica rizal networks in New Zealand forests. I

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Speaker 1: hope you do more episodes about New Zealand in the future.

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Speaker 1: I would love to learn more about Maori agriculture and

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Speaker 1: the plants they brought with him. I had to rush

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Speaker 1: through a fascinatating exhibit in Auckland War Memorial Museum about

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Speaker 1: the cabbage tree. Apparently there are many uh cultivars of

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Speaker 1: and many uses of this species, and I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear about them. We've been in lockdown since March,

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Speaker 1: so I really appreciate your podcast. It helps keep me

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Speaker 1: entertained in saying cheers THEO. Thanks for getting in touch THEO.

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Speaker 1: So this next message come was from someone who has

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Speaker 1: just identified as the letter S. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: that stands for, but S really seemed to enjoy the

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Speaker 1: MOA episodes, but wanted to add a fact that they

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Speaker 1: think we didn't stress enough, which is quote. Although museum

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Speaker 1: MOA skeletons were set erect. More recent science indicates that

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Speaker 1: they were not so, And this is an interesting point.

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Speaker 1: S is correct about this. Like the oldest museum reconstructions

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Speaker 1: of the moa. You you might see these old pictures

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Speaker 1: of how they were posed. They would have the neck

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Speaker 1: vertebrae extending straight up into the air off the body. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I was reading about the centerpiece hosted by the

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Speaker 1: Auckland Museum, actually the same museum that THEO mentioned, which

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Speaker 1: explains that these earliest museum exhibits of MOA skeletons were

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Speaker 1: based on the posture imagined by the British paleontologist Richard Owen,

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Speaker 1: who we talked about in the MOA episodes. But I

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Speaker 1: think it was beginning around the nineteen eighties most museum

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Speaker 1: displays were corrected to show what would have been a

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Speaker 1: more common posture when the moa is just, you know,

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Speaker 1: not reaching up at something, but just walking around ound.

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Speaker 1: And that would be not with the neck it's extended

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Speaker 1: straight up from the body, but kind of curved with

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Speaker 1: an S shape with respect to the body. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: remember reading about this as we prepared for those episodes,

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Speaker 1: and I think we mainly just ended up focusing more

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Speaker 1: on just sort of the the undeniably weird and amazing

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Speaker 1: things about the MOA without really getting into this issue.

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Speaker 1: But but we see this in other areas of paleontology

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Speaker 1: as well. We've discussed it in the context of the

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Speaker 1: rannosaurs Rex, for instance, where earlier um attempts to put

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Speaker 1: together the bones of the t rex gave it a

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Speaker 1: much more erect posture, and we've corrected over time for

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Speaker 1: for what is also a more horizontal presentation with the

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Speaker 1: tail outstretched behind it for balance. Uh. And one sees

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Speaker 1: other similar things with other prehistoric creatures as well. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the initial way we put them together is not necessarily

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Speaker 1: where we are today in our understanding of how they

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Speaker 1: probably um, you know, stood and held themselves and moved around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole lot actually that we're not told explicitly

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Speaker 1: by bones or bi fossil remains, and that can be

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Speaker 1: a very interesting to to play with. Variations on of course,

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Speaker 1: one is posture how the body would have stood and

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Speaker 1: what would be the you know, normal ways of arranging

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Speaker 1: the neck and the arms and all that kind of

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Speaker 1: thing in the tail. But another thing, of course is

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Speaker 1: soft tissue. This is actually debate with the MOA itself

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Speaker 1: is like what kind of soft tissue did it have?

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Speaker 1: Was it a plump bird, was it a skinnier bird? Um.

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Speaker 1: This is an interesting issue that's often hotly debated in

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Speaker 1: the paleo art world. How to render the sort of soft,

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Speaker 1: fleshy tissues of dinosaurs and other extinct animals that we

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Speaker 1: only now know by their bones. Yeah, exactly, and then

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Speaker 1: also comes into play with toy dinosaurs. Yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: instantly tell if if if a toy dinosaur is based

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Speaker 1: on these these outdated understandings of of dinosaur posture, or

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Speaker 1: they're more recent. All right, here's another one related to

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Speaker 1: the MOA. This one comes to us from Nathan. Hey, Robert,

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Speaker 1: and Joe. I just listened to your recent episode of

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Speaker 1: Rise of the Moa, and you were talking about large

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Speaker 1: birds that could kill humans. In my mind automatically went

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Speaker 1: to a prehistoric rattite that roamed parts of North America

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Speaker 1: around the same time as the saber tooth tiger called

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Speaker 1: Titanus Wallery. Now, this is, by the way, you can

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Speaker 1: look up images of this. This is a terror bird

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Speaker 1: often just referred to as Titanus. Uh. And indeed, uh

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Speaker 1: create the terror birds are are amazing to look at. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Nathan continues. They roamed throughout the Lower USA and possibly

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Speaker 1: into South America two to five million years ago. They

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Speaker 1: stood about two point five meters tall and had great speed,

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Speaker 1: which people think was their main hunting strategy, along with

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Speaker 1: their sharp beak. This bird has always interested me, uh

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Speaker 1: and thought you all could compare other extinct species to

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Speaker 1: this one. Thanks for your time, Nathan, I've always wanted

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Speaker 1: to be eaten by a bird. Really Now, I think

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Speaker 1: we mentioned this in the in the mo O episodes,

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Speaker 1: but you actually have done episodes about the terror birds

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Speaker 1: in the past, right did you do them back when

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Speaker 1: with Julie years ago? Ah? That sounds right. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I know I've read about them before, but I honestly

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Speaker 1: can't remember if we covered them at all. Uh, certainly

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Speaker 1: so the kind of topic we could return to. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they're they're they're totally fascinating, and there's the North

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Speaker 1: American connection here. I mean, you'll find examples of them.

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Speaker 1: You'll find fossil evidence of this creature in Florida um, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, it always it always kind of amazes

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Speaker 1: me where there'll be some sort of there will be

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Speaker 1: a fossil like this, and you'll think this should be

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Speaker 1: this should be the fossil of Florida, right, this should

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Speaker 1: be the state fossil. But if I'm not mistaken, the

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Speaker 1: state fossil of Florida is um is a coral. So

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Speaker 1: sometimes they're they're less exciting, Like Georgia has a pretty

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Speaker 1: good one. We have a cretaceous sharp tooth that is

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Speaker 1: our state fossil. Yeah, and you know, it varies from

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Speaker 1: state to state. Some have really cool ones. Uh. Some

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Speaker 1: have multiple ones, like uh, Kansas has both a taranodon

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Speaker 1: and a tylosaurus, so they have like two awesome creatures. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Kentucky it's um a brachiopod. It's you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: like little shells. And not to say these aren't you know,

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Speaker 1: important fossil finds, but in terms of like the kind

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Speaker 1: of thing you might plaster on the side of a

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Speaker 1: U haul truck or put on a license plate, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think he can jazz it up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I am at least encouraged that apparently every state acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the existence of fossils. Yeah, that is a good sign.

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Speaker 1: None of them. Have um have taken him back yet? Right? Um?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they're they're they're tons of great ones. Nevada,

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Speaker 1: you guys have an ichtheosar. You know. New New Jersey

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Speaker 1: has a duckbill dinosaur um. New York has a c scorpion.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's a wonderful list, you know. I recommend

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Speaker 1: checking it out. Find out what your state fossil is,

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Speaker 1: and if it's disappointing, fight for it. You know, like

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Speaker 1: if you're if you're if you live in for Gina

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Speaker 1: and your state fossil is a scallop, you should you

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Speaker 1: should be a little mad about that. You should fight

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Speaker 1: for something maybe a little more robust, something with with

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Speaker 1: claws and teeth, if you can. I think Tennessee state

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Speaker 1: fossil is a replica of Noah's ark. Um. No, but

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Speaker 1: it is. I'm looking it up now. It is a

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Speaker 1: cretaceous bivalve. So maybe, well, I don't know. I feel

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Speaker 1: like Tennessee might be better off if they had an

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Speaker 1: exciting fossil as there uh as their state fossil. Uh

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Speaker 1: you know, something that would maybe get people more excited

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Speaker 1: about the prospect, you know, like South Carolina it's the

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Speaker 1: Colombian mammoth for for crying out loud. I know you're joking.

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Speaker 1: I know you believe that all fossils are exciting. They are,

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Speaker 1: they are all exciting. But in terms of say, animating

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Speaker 1: the kids, I think maybe it pays to have something

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Speaker 1: a little a little you know, more action toothier. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now I will say Arizona State fossil is. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the pet is petrified wood from the petrified forest, which

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Speaker 1: maybe is not that exciting the children, but I think

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Speaker 1: that one's pretty exciting. So Arizona, you still get credit

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Speaker 1: for a non animal fossil. Al Right, maybe I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: skip ahead to this uh message we got from Tabitha

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Speaker 1: about the MOA episodes. I thought this was was really great,

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Speaker 1: so Tabitha writes, Hi, Robert and Joe, I'm a long

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Speaker 1: time Kiwi listener, and yes we love being called Kiwi's.

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Speaker 1: Who wouldn't want to be named after a furry football

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Speaker 1: with the largest egg body ratio of any animal? I

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Speaker 1: did not know that. Oh yeah, I had kind of

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Speaker 1: forgotten about this, but yeah, if you know, there's some

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Speaker 1: some wonderful illustrations of just how much space inside the

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Speaker 1: Kiwi's body, like a mature egg takes up before it

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Speaker 1: is before it leaves the body cavity. Oh, this is

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Speaker 1: kind of like the epic pooping of the sloth that

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Speaker 1: we talked about in the in the Star Wars episode recently,

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Speaker 1: right where it's like its body way is poop it sometimes.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, sorry, tab Tabitha goes on. She says, love

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Speaker 1: your moa episode, And I thought i'd write and share

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Speaker 1: moa facts and some insight on the history and ecology

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Speaker 1: of and oh, I'm sorry. This is the word I

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Speaker 1: believe for for New Zealand, and I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to pronounce it. I believe it's a o t a roa.

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Speaker 1: That's my best try. A reason for the rapidity of

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Speaker 1: the extinction of large bird species in New Zealand, the

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Speaker 1: moa and other birds like adds a, bill, swans and

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Speaker 1: geese is that New Zealand is lacking in plant species

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Speaker 1: that are edible to humans. There are some fruit producing

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Speaker 1: plants we have native BlackBerry with even worse thorns, but

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Speaker 1: few plants that produce a lot of starch without tremendous effort,

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Speaker 1: and obviously none that have been domesticated to enhance yields.

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Speaker 1: The Maori came to New Zealand with advanced farming skills,

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Speaker 1: but the crops they brought with them from Polynesia are tropical.

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Speaker 1: Tarot is a staple crop across the Pacific, but can

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Speaker 1: only be grown in the very northern tip of New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Some lily kumara or sweet potato, is a hugely important

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Speaker 1: traditional Maori staple, but can only be grown in the

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Speaker 1: top half of the North Island. In the few hundred

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Speaker 1: years it took to learn how to process and exploit

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Speaker 1: the few plant species that do provide food, the ancestral

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Speaker 1: Maori had little choice but to rely on hunting and

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Speaker 1: fishing to survive. In midden pits in the coastal South Island.

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Speaker 1: There's a distinct change in food remains over time from

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Speaker 1: mostly bird bones to fish and seal bones, which tracks

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Speaker 1: the extinction of moa and other large birds. I thought

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Speaker 1: this was so interesting um she goes on as the

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Speaker 1: major large herbivore in New Zealand. The moa was incredibly

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Speaker 1: important to the ecology of the islands. Moa and other

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Speaker 1: large birds distributed seeds which cannot pass through the guts

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Speaker 1: of mammals. In fact, I read an article the other day,

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Speaker 1: saying they ate and distributed fungi, which is essential to

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Speaker 1: the health of southern beech forest. I think we talked

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Speaker 1: about this in the second part of our MOA episode

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Speaker 1: this I believe this came in after the first part.

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Speaker 1: But she goes on the fungi which isn't retained in

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Speaker 1: the guts of deer and pigs which browsed the forest. Today,

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Speaker 1: many niches left open by extinction have been filled by

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Speaker 1: introduced mammals in this country, but MOA's role in keeping

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Speaker 1: forests healthy is irreplaceable because they were one of the

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Speaker 1: only browsing mega fauna that is a bird. The native

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Speaker 1: forests evolved with bird morphology, and introduced ungulates just can't

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Speaker 1: do the same things with their guts. I'll finish on

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Speaker 1: my favorite moa ecological fact. Many native trees have two

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Speaker 1: phases of growth, a juvenile stage and an adult stage.

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Speaker 1: Juvenile stages tend to have small or spiky and tough

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Speaker 1: leaves and grow in spind lee unappetizing bush shapes. Once

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Speaker 1: they reach a certain height that moa can't reach, and

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Speaker 1: this would be three to four meters, they spread out

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Speaker 1: and the leaves change shape, becoming broader to catch more

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Speaker 1: sunlight with out being munched on. The most dramatic example

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Speaker 1: of this is the lance would or the horo aca

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Speaker 1: um and Uh. Here she she attaches an image for

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Speaker 1: us to look at of a juvenile versus an adult

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Speaker 1: lance would and and it as it is, as Tabitha says, like,

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Speaker 1: the juvenile looks basically inedible. It looks like this kind

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Speaker 1: of spiky, nasty bush thing. But then once it gets

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Speaker 1: tall enough to leave, spread out and become something that

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Speaker 1: looks more like a traditional tree. Yeah, that's fascinating because really,

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Speaker 1: in in terms of evolutionary time, the moa is barely gone. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, all these plants that would have uh you know,

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Speaker 1: thrived alongside it still have their defenses in place. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's wonderful. It's like the so so many of the

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Speaker 1: other species of New Zealand are still adapted as if

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Speaker 1: the moa should be there, they're just not. So it's

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Speaker 1: like this link in the chain is missing. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: this is reflected in the rest of Tabitha's email. She says, sorry,

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Speaker 1: this gots along. I'm sure you've got emails from every

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Speaker 1: KeyWe listener you have, because we're desk it for attention

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Speaker 1: and extraordinarily bored at the moment um. The gist is

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Speaker 1: bring moa back if we can. I think there's still

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Speaker 1: a place for them here. Native biomes still cover twenty

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Speaker 1: three of New Zealand, and a lot of us are

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Speaker 1: trying hard to increase that and decrease introduced pests. If

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Speaker 1: I could see a moa in my lifetime, I would

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Speaker 1: die happy. I'd also like to bring back the hostas eagle,

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Speaker 1: but that's a harder sell, especially to all the sheep farmers.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for doing what you do, Keep safe, keep well,

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Speaker 1: and keep learning. Much love from aote aroa Tabitha. All right, well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of bringing the moa back. Uh. This next email

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Speaker 1: gets into this a little bit as well. This comes

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Speaker 1: to us from James. Dear, Robert and Joe. I'm a

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Speaker 1: longtime listener, first time writer. I just finished your two

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Speaker 1: part series on the moa, which was totally awesome and

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed it immensely. However, is a kiwi. I want

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Speaker 1: to give you two pieces of information you might enjoy.

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Speaker 1: Number One, we don't mind being called kiwi's at all.

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Speaker 1: We describe ourselves thusly on the Red the National Rugby

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Speaker 1: League team is called the Kiwi's Number two. We may

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Speaker 1: not need to bring back the MOA at all. There

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Speaker 1: are rumors that they may still survive in the unexplored

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Speaker 1: reaches of New Zealand, South Island's Alps and Fiordland. That's

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Speaker 1: how it's spelled. UH. It's spelled f I O R

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Speaker 1: D l A n d in. Patty Freeney, republican of

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Speaker 1: the Bailey Hotel near author's past, reported sighting Amoa while

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Speaker 1: tramping in the Alps. He supplied a blurry photo of

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Speaker 1: what is almost certainly a flightless large flightless birds he attached.

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Speaker 1: The story made national headlines, with believers launching further search

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Speaker 1: parties and two cries arguing it must have been an

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Speaker 1: emu escaped from a zoo. The closest zoo is in

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Speaker 1: christ Church, some three hours drive away. UH. Patty Freeney

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00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 1: passed in two thousand twelve, so we may never know

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Speaker 1: if he was being genuine or looking to advertise his

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Speaker 1: hotel or what. UH includes a link to the web

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Speaker 1: story with more details, and then James finishes up. Keep

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Speaker 1: up the great work. I listen to your podcast every week.

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Speaker 1: My favorite is probably the Mind Flavor episode I have

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Speaker 1: one tattooed on my shoulder, but the moa is a

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Speaker 1: close second. You're the best, James. Oh thanks James. Now

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Speaker 1: I looked up this picture. I don't know where this

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Speaker 1: ranks on the Patterson Gimblin scale. I'm gonna say I'm

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Speaker 1: not convinced. I am not convinced that there is a

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Speaker 1: living moa. It seems highly doubtful to me. But there

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Speaker 1: is a blurry, vaguely S shaped blob in the middle

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Speaker 1: of this photo. Well, you know, I have to um,

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Speaker 1: I have to say. This is kind of a staple

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Speaker 1: of of seeing some sort of crypted or some sort

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Speaker 1: of uh, you know, animal that's largely believed to be

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Speaker 1: extinct in the wild. And it's easy to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: well that's barely anything. That's such a horrible photo. But

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Speaker 1: if you look around that there are some Facebook groups

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Speaker 1: now that are that that exists solely to sell librate

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Speaker 1: bad nature photography, and you quickly realize that no, this

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Speaker 1: is this seems likely. You know, you see something really

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Speaker 1: cool uh and unexpected uh, and it's fleeting, and then

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Speaker 1: you rush to take a picture of it, and chances

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Speaker 1: are you're an amateur or even if you know a

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Speaker 1: little bit of what you're doing. You're you're you're rushed,

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Speaker 1: and you have to get a picture of the thing

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Speaker 1: as it is leaving your site. You may end up

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Speaker 1: taking a terrible photo of it that does not reflect, um,

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Speaker 1: the degree of detail that you yourself actually saw. Uh.

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Speaker 1: For instance, I was recently walking in a cemetery uh

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Speaker 1: in the Atlanta area and got to see some wild

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Speaker 1: turkeys roman about which you know, wild turkeys. They're they're

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Speaker 1: not MOA's by any stretch, but they're still really cool.

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Speaker 1: And there are rare enough sighting uh you know, in

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Speaker 1: in um in the Atlanta area. So I was excited

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Speaker 1: about it. UH, watched them in and then I realized, oh,

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Speaker 1: I should try and get a picture. So I busted

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Speaker 1: out my phone and took just a terrible picture. Maybe

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Speaker 1: not quite as vague as the US, but still um.

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Speaker 1: You know, if I was trying to make a case

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Speaker 1: for having seen a you know, a prehistoric turkey, I

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Speaker 1: would have really had an uphill battle. Now that being said,

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Speaker 1: based on what we were reading in researching our MOA episodes,

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Speaker 1: it seems like the experts are very doubtful that there

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Speaker 1: are any moa at large in the world. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was my impression as well. And and to be fair,

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Speaker 1: I think James is sort of joking in and bringing

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Speaker 1: up this example. I'm not saying like he's trying to

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Speaker 1: pass off something that seems very unlikely as as being real.

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Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, I don't think there's any serious expert

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Speaker 1: opinion from you know, local zoologists or whatever that would

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Speaker 1: think that MOA's are still out there roaming around New Zealand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but still, I mean, obviously I wish it were the case.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of the curious nature of alleged cryptid sightings.

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Speaker 1: And you know, much like conspiracy theory really is that

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Speaker 1: by expressing the idea that it might be, you make

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Speaker 1: it a little more believable, you know, you give it

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00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 1: provides something for for us to latch onto, sometimes in

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Speaker 1: a way that is maybe hopeful, but also sometimes in

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Speaker 1: a way that is maybe counterproductive. Sure, I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are other ways that you could imagine actually seeing a

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Speaker 1: moa in New Zealand, and that would be the extinction.

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Speaker 1: I'm interested that we you know, one of the things

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Speaker 1: we talked about in the episode was I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: exactly what the what the best argument would be for

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Speaker 1: bringing back an extinct animal like the moa, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Tabitha kind of made the case like it's

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Speaker 1: an important part of New Zealand ecology and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the other organisms that are you know, had their

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Speaker 1: evolutions shaped around the presence of the moa are still there.

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Speaker 1: So bringing back the moa in a way would would

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Speaker 1: sort of breathe life back into the native New Zealand ecosystem. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we discussed in those episodes. They're what scientists think their

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Speaker 1: role probably was in a spreading spores for instance, And

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Speaker 1: so you know, you take out a keystone species like

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Speaker 1: the moa, and you know that there they are missed.

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Speaker 1: They are missed by the uh the various plants, animals

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Speaker 1: and uh fun guy that depended on them. So I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's probably the avenue where you can make the best

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Speaker 1: argument for them rather than just it would be cool

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Speaker 1: if they were here. Now, can we also get the

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Speaker 1: terror birds back? Well? I hope, so, I hope. So

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Speaker 1: all right, on that note, we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break, but when we come back, we'll jump into

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Speaker 1: some more listener mail and we'll talk about soap than

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back, all right. This next message comes

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Speaker 1: to us from our listener Carl. It was in reference

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Speaker 1: to the episode about soap, which was the last episode

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Speaker 1: of our other podcast, Invention. Uh. Carl says, Dear Robert

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00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: and Joe, just to let you know, an avid fan

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Speaker 1: of your podcasts, but regrettably don't let you know much

398
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: because I'm usually gardening, lawnmowing, debt cleaning, or just walking.

399
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Speaker 1: But you make those other mindless tasks fly by and

400
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: I get work done, exercise, edification, and amusement as painlessly

401
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: as possible. So thank you. First point, I think the

402
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: soap episode is appropriately the last episode of Invention, because

403
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Speaker 1: I'm convinced that soap was more of a discovery than

404
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: an invention. It's not hard to imagine that roasting meat

405
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: over a wood fire with rain afterwards often produced soap

406
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: like substances that the ancients found would clean fats off

407
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: of implements, clothes, skin, et cetera. By the way, I'm

408
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: bummed about discontinuing Invention as such, but I understand that

409
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: could happen, and it's good to hear. You'll keep the

410
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Speaker 1: invention spirit and stuff to blow your mind. Uh. And

411
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Speaker 1: then a little bit later in his message, He says,

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Speaker 1: I thought the the fist bump versus handshake thing was

413
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Speaker 1: funny with regard to passing the piece. Remember we talked

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Speaker 1: about how uh in churches, Uh, there there's this. Many

415
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: churches have a tradition of shaking hands. The people shake

416
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Speaker 1: hands with each other and they you know, they say

417
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Speaker 1: peace or the peace of the Lord be with you

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Speaker 1: or something. Um. And we were discussing a study that

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Speaker 1: found that a fist bump actually transmits many fewer infectious

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Speaker 1: agents than a handshake does. Uh. And so Carl says,

421
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Speaker 1: here in my church, which is Eastern Orthodox, we have

422
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Speaker 1: a ritual called the Right of Forgiveness, where we hug

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00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: and kiss each other while forgiving them and asking for

424
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: their forgiveness in turn. To start off, Lent, I guess

425
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: you could say we take full advantage of our immune systems.

426
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for one of the best podcasts going, Carl. Oh, well,

427
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: thank you, Carl. That's that's very kind. But yeah, this

428
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: does raise the uh, you know the reality that when

429
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: it comes to various greetings, uh and and so forth.

430
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: I mean, they're gonna be cultural variations. You know, some

431
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: in some cultures hugging or or kissing is is more

432
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: of the standard mode of greeting, and so perhaps it's

433
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's more more challenging to make those

434
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: changes in those cultures. And I'll just add one other

435
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: message we got from a listener named Chris who also

436
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: talked about a guest preacher at his church one time

437
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: who had a sense of humor. And Chris says that

438
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: the guest preacher encouraged the people in the church to

439
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: greet each other with what the preacher called holy knuckles,

440
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: and that was the fist bump instead of the handshake.

441
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: I don't know if this was for a reason of

442
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: of sanitation or whatever, or of you know, hygiene, but maybe,

443
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: well that's perfect, right, because you can take a sharpie

444
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,479
Speaker 1: and you can write h O L Y on your

445
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: knuckles before you go in there for the bump, right,

446
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: like Robert Mitchum in the Night of the Hunter. Night

447
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: of the Hunter is a fantastic movie. By the way,

448
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: Robert Mitchum is a force of nature in it. Oh wow, Yeah,

449
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: that's one that I've remarkably never seen. I've never seen that.

450
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: I've never seen cape fear, So I should I should really,

451
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: uh what fill in those holes as they say, oh

452
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,959
Speaker 1: on movie crush. Uh. Yeah, they're always talking about whole filling.

453
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: I guess I have less than opinion about Cape Fear.

454
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: Night of the Hunter is a horrifying movie. It feels

455
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: like dangerous and scary ahead of its time. Robert Mitchum

456
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: plays this, Uh, this psychotic, murderous traveling preacher. It's yeah,

457
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: he's he's powerful. All right. Here's another one. This comes

458
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: to us from Steve. Dear Robert and Joe. Happy belated

459
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: tenth anniversary. I hope this that boy that seems like

460
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: it was a long time ago, that was in a

461
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: different time and as no meaning anymore. Yeah, I hope

462
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: this finds you both in good spirits and good health.

463
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for years of entertainment, education and

464
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: mind blowing content. You've managed to make my hour commute

465
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: one of the highlights of my day for the past

466
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: seven years, and I greatly appreciate your thoughtful nuance and

467
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: insightful treatments of fascinating and often overlooked topics. I'm a

468
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: general surgeon in Los Angeles, and in the operating room

469
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: we take turns on choosing we listened to during surgery.

470
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: Categories range from classical our scrub text pick to Death

471
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: Metal by a seventy year old enthusiologist, and I usually

472
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: put on an episode of stuff to blow your mind

473
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: or invention. I find that the mental engagement actually helps

474
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: me stay relaxed and focused on the task at hand,

475
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: rather than distract me. At first, the staff roll their

476
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: eyes at me, but most have come around and themselves

477
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: became big fans of your show. It always sparks interesting

478
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: discussions and debates, and I also like that it never

479
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: gets too loud to hear important communication, unlike Dr Death

480
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: Metals music. Things are definitely becoming crazy with the COVID

481
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: patients flooding the hospitals, but we are managing just find

482
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: so far, most m Angelino's seem to be taking social

483
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 1: distancing very seriously, and our much maligned sprawl is finally

484
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: working to our advantage. Thank you for helping disseminate accurate

485
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: and helpful information regarding this challenging disease. It goes an

486
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: incredibly long way to helping us minimize or at least

487
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: slow the spread. Although it's not the kind of content

488
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: you would usually cover, it is a true public service

489
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: that you have done one small thing in the COVID episode,

490
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: though Joe refers to the mortality rate of the flu

491
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: as point zero one percent. Probably just a slip of

492
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: the tongue, but it is important to realize it is

493
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: zero point one percent, still much lower than COVID. Well,

494
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: I didn't realize I said that, but if indeed I did,

495
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: thank you so much for that correction, Steve so so,

496
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: Steve continues, I've probably come up with a couple hundred

497
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: other comments on topics you've covered over the years, but

498
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: I'll keep it down to two that's stuck in my head.

499
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: Number one. Regarding the Band or Snatch episode, I always

500
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: thought that the demon Packs is actually you, me, us,

501
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: the viewer player. Packs is described as the thief of destiny,

502
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: and by making the choices for the protagonist, we decide

503
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: his fate slash steal his destiny. The scene where Stefan

504
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: is communicating with the viewer through his computer is the

505
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: aha moment in which he realizes someone has taken over

506
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: his ability to make his own decisions and choose his

507
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: own adventure. Or maybe Packs is Netflix. I think that's

508
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: a strong uh reading of it. Certainly, at least one

509
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: of the beautiful things about Bandersnatch, though, is that depending

510
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: on exactly how you make your way through the plot,

511
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: some of those elements are stressed more than others. Um.

512
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: I think the second time I watched it, I was

513
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: I think I was able to avoid like the really

514
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: overt netflix uh integration stuff, which I liked more. Um.

515
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: But now I'm forgetting I probably need to take a

516
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: third John through there, just to be sure. I just

517
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: wanted to bring up also this this came up in

518
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: an episode since we did the Bandersnatch thing, but in

519
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: response to Steve, there is an actual monster that is

520
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,959
Speaker 1: known in some ways as the Thief of Destiny, and

521
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: it's the monster un Zoo, who's a sort of bad

522
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: god or kind of winged monster thing from many ancient

523
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: Mesopotamian religions and and on. Zoo goes in and steals

524
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: the tablets of Destiny from the King of Gods, and

525
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: I believe somebody has to go punish him and get

526
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: them back. It might beat an inerta or something, all right,

527
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: and then he moves on to number two. In your

528
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: x ray episode of Invention, I think Robert made a

529
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: comment suggesting that bullets have to be removed from the body.

530
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: This is actually not usually the case unless the bullet

531
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: is near certain vital structures, eroding into a blood vessel, bowl, etcetera,

532
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: and is a common misconception that leads to many angry

533
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: trauma patients insisting that they need surgery. Digging around to

534
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: remove a stray bullet often causes more damage than it's worth,

535
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: and the bullet is usually sterile due to the high temperature.

536
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: President Garfield died of sepsis due to wound infection following

537
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: many painful, uh likely misguided attempts to remove the bullet fragments,

538
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: and may have survived otherwise with basic wound care. UH.

539
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: This is this is a great point, if memory serves.

540
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: I think I I brought that up because I was

541
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: kind of like saying, hey, if there was a bullet

542
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: in your body and you had to get it out, um,

543
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: you know, how would you go about that properly before

544
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: the age of X ray. So I didn't mean to

545
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: imply that that bullets always need to come out of

546
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: the body, because I mean, just in life, you occasionally

547
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: run into somebody who you know will anecdotically mentioned how

548
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: they still have a bullet or fragment of a bullet

549
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: in their body stemming from some old injury. Yeah, totally. Uh.

550
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: And what Steve says about President Garfield here James Garfield,

551
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: who is sometimes said to have been killed by an

552
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: assassin's bullet. He was shot while he was in office,

553
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: but it took him. I don't remember how long it was,

554
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: like a month or more after that to die. And yeah,

555
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: Steve's exactly right that like the surgeons kept going in

556
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: and digging around in him, they were using unsanitary methods,

557
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: and his wound got infected and he died. So he

558
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: was probably killed more by the medical intervention than by

559
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: the bullet. So Steve closes out here and says, thank

560
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: you again for all the wonderful content you've created over

561
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: the years, and I look forward to the next kin,

562
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: hopefully not from all from your closet. Please stay curious

563
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: and safe. All the best, Steve l Well, thank you, Steve.

564
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: As of this recording, we are both still in our closets.

565
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: Um one day, hopefully that will change. Okay, Next, let's

566
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: turn to some messages we got in response to our

567
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 1: episode about The Fly, the Cronenberg movie, The King of

568
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: Bad Feelings and Reaching into the Slime. Uh, so uh

569
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: so multiple listeners got in touch to correct us about

570
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: something we said uh in the episode, which is that

571
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about before the Cronenberg version of the movie.

572
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: There was the original The Fly from nineteen fifty eight,

573
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: and we talked about the fact that Vincent Price was

574
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: in the movie. But I think we both misremembered him

575
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: as the actor who played the scientist who creates the

576
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: telepods and gets turned into a fly, and that's not

577
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: the case. He was in the movie, but he played

578
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: the scientist's brother, so that was it was not Vincent

579
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: Price in the Spider's web saying help me, help me.

580
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: We got a number of messages about this so much.

581
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: Apologies to the to the career of Vincent Price. Yes,

582
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: though really it does underline just how great again, just

583
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: how great a remake Cronenberg's The Fly is. Uh No, No,

584
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean, not only is it the one that we

585
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: tend to remember and we tend to look back on,

586
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: but you know, why is Vincent Price not playing Like

587
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: why is the main character in the original Fly? Uh?

588
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: And you know the story as well that inspired it.

589
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: Why why are they not the ones going on this

590
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: uh this crazy um? Uh? You know metamorphosis, uh infused journey.

591
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: Why are they? Why is our main character outside of it?

592
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: Uh So? I think that was a brilliant change on

593
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: the part of Cronenberg and the other writers involved in

594
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: the remake. Yeah, I'd agree with that. But so this

595
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: next pair of messages, I'm going to sort of do

596
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 1: them together because they get at the same thing. This

597
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: came from two listeners, Linda and Fernando, who got in

598
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: touch with us after the episode about The Fly to

599
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: respond to us a series of comments we made about

600
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: the effectiveness of Placebo's and uh So. Fernando rites, Hello, guys,

601
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: longtime listener, first time caller, truly enjoyed the show, and

602
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: so forth. I couldn't pass on an opportunity to blow

603
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: you guys minds. You guys minds. Uh. In the episode

604
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: when you reviewed Cronenberg's The Fly, you mentioned in passing

605
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: the Placebo Effect you were wondering if somebody needed to

606
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: believe in the supposed medicine for the placebo effect to work,

607
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: or whether simply believing in the placebo effect itself could

608
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: do the trick. The surprising responses apparently neither. I was

609
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: recently a few months ago listening to another science podcast,

610
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: and I think the pod he gives a couple of options,

611
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: but I think the one he's talking about his NPRS

612
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: Hidden Brain. Yeah, and Fernando continues, and in a show

613
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: about the placebo, they interviewed a lady who had suffered

614
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: from chronic pain for many years and tried different medicines

615
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: and technique still little or no effect. She was enrolled

616
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: in a study of the placebo effect, and for the

617
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: first time, her pain subsided. She was placed in the

618
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: placebo group, of course, but the thing is, she was

619
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: told she was in that group. She knew she was

620
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: taking placebos and was not expecting to get better, but

621
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: she did. Nevertheless, Anyway, I thought you'd enjoy that little tidbit.

622
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: Please keep up the good work. Uh. I can't really

623
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: express how pleasurable and provocative it is for me to

624
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: intrude on your conversations. Cheers Fernando and then uh. Linda

625
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: writes in about the same subject, attributing it to an

626
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: episode of NPRS Hidden Brain, where she adds an element

627
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: of explanation for the outcome. Linda writes, the takeaway was

628
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: that the doctor who prescribed the placebo, who told her

629
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: it was just a sugar pill, was kind and attentive

630
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: and seemed to really care, and somehow that was what

631
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: made the placebo work for her. Wondering what you guys

632
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: might think of this angle of looking at placebo's and

633
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: medicine in general. I wonder if people like my elderly

634
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: mother in chronic pain and who have been addicted to

635
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: opiates could be provided a placebo in place of their

636
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: pain meds in order to break the addiction, if the

637
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: doctor was nice enough. Uh and so so thanks for

638
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: getting in touch, Fernando and Linda. I don't know the

639
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: answer to that question, Linda, but it is very interesting

640
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: to consider how a placebo could work when somebody knows

641
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: it's a placebo, and whether the doctor's presence has something

642
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: to do with it. So obviously it could be reduction

643
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: in pain due to just positive social interaction and attention,

644
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, like feeling loved, feeling appreciated, feeling taken care

645
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: of can in some ways make you feel better. There

646
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: can also, I think, be aspects you know, we've talked

647
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: about this on the show before, aspects of a relief

648
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: that you feel due to reassurance from a knowledgeable authority

649
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: and I know I've talked about the experience of going

650
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: to a doctor with a complaint, uh, you know, being

651
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: worried about some kind of like feeling in the body,

652
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: and then being told that it's nothing, that is fine,

653
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: and then the feeling goes away. It's just like having

654
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: a knowledgeable doctor say no, I don't see anything wrong.

655
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: It makes the original complaint just disappear. But then finally,

656
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: I was wondering about the idea of um, sort of

657
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: a double placebo effect, Like placebos sometimes work, presumably because

658
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: people expect them to work. And if you're aware of

659
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: this fact, could you also expect the placebo to quote work,

660
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: making even a known placebo effective as a placebo, Like

661
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 1: you get a placebo from expecting the placebo effect. Yeah,

662
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: I guess so it's sounds possible. I also, like, you

663
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: know what you mentioned about the you know, trusting in

664
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: a doctor and you know, trusting in an expert. Uh,

665
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: and and you know when you receive feedback on one

666
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: what you're experiencing. Because it also raises the reverse question,

667
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, then, how does what is the effect of

668
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: having I'm not gonna say, like a bad doctor, uh, necessarily,

669
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: but because we don't even necessarily have to go there. Like,

670
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: what when you go to a doctor where perhaps you

671
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: don't feel like you really heard on a topic, or

672
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: perhaps they're you know, their bedside manner is not as

673
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: solid as as other professionals working in their field, Like

674
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: to what extent that ends up affecting the effectiveness of

675
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: of medicine, you know, via the placebo effect? Oh yeah,

676
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: what you could get like a brusque doctor gives you

677
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: a no sebo effect. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It

678
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: seems like the kind of thing there. There may be

679
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: some papers on I have to dig around. I'm not

680
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: sure how you tell. Well, there are ways you can

681
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: test for that. Actually, I guess it would be harder

682
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: to do that ethically. You can't like tell a doctor

683
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: like beat me in your patients. Let's see how it goes. Yeah,

684
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: it would have to Yeah, it would have obviously have

685
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: to be a little be someone removed from from actual

686
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: clinical work. But um, they would be interesting to see

687
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: where that thread would take us. Yeah, all right, Well

688
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: I think we need to take another break, but then

689
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: we will be right back to round this out with

690
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: a couple more emails. Thank thank thank Alright, we're back now,

691
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: obviously folks that listen to the show, sometimes you listen

692
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: to older episodes. A lot of older episodes have been

693
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: coming up in the feed recently because for one thing,

694
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: we always run a rerun episode on Saturday's pull something

695
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: out of the Vault for a Vault episode. But then

696
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: we also have had all these playlists that have come

697
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: out as part of a uh you know, a company

698
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: initiative to provide some some curated selections of past episodes.

699
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: So listen to during this time of pandemic. Uh. So

700
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: here is one from Brett and this is a response

701
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: to Sacred Mountains. Uh. These were a pair of episodes

702
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: that we have recently rerun in the feed. Hello Robert

703
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: and Joe, big fan of your show and I love

704
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 1: the questions you ask always lead us down a path

705
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: of education and curiosity. I wanted to write about the

706
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: Sacred Mountain and add my opinion about mountains. Living in Colorado.

707
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: It is a culture here to quote head to the mountains,

708
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: whether for biking, hiking, or skiing. There is a term

709
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: out there that is directed to how many fourteeners you

710
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: have bagged, meaning how many you have climbed In doing so,

711
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: your perspective about their true nature can be obtained from Afar.

712
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: They look dominant and overwhelming with how far they reach

713
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: into the sky and seem to touch the heavens. And

714
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: when you drive to UH to hike one, you cannot

715
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: always see the top, leading you to you to believe

716
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: that the hike is is just that a hike. But

717
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: once you start going up and you have to UH,

718
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 1: that is when the power of the mountain can be felt.

719
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: You notice your legs feel heavy, like someone has tied

720
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: cinder blocks to each foot. You pay attention to your

721
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: breathing because it feels like you cannot get enough oxygen sweat,

722
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: even though it might only be fifty degrees fahrenheit. But

723
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,479
Speaker 1: upon reaching the summit, which is never the first top

724
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: of the mountain you see called a false summit, and

725
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: after you catch your breath, there is just a feeling

726
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: that comes over you that is hard to describe. You

727
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 1: were just in awe about how far away everything seems

728
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: and how small you as a human really are. It

729
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: is very joyous and most people do some sort of celebration.

730
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: Thinking about two centuries ago, people probably did not have

731
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: a concept of oxygen and an understanding of why it

732
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: becomes difficult to breathe. This could bring about great respect

733
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: for elevation here in Colorado. Once up top of fourteen

734
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: er the oxygen level is fifty six percent that of

735
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: sea level, So I can understand the respect people must

736
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: have cast upon the mountains and how it happened. Also,

737
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: when up that high, it is usually windy and storms

738
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: can come out of nowhere, producing a lightning and hail

739
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: like you were angering the gods for trying to climb

740
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: to heaven. Also, if it happens to snow, becoming snowblind

741
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: can lead to disorientation, which I have experienced. Another point

742
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: is that today we have roads and paths to access

743
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: the peaks. Uh, we're trying to get to the base

744
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: of a mountain out there long ago in itself was

745
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: a feat. Trying to find your way back without a

746
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: path can feel impossible. Ancients may not have had our

747
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: understanding of science, but they respected the power of the mountains,

748
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: which a lot of us here also do. I appreciate

749
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: your time and please stay safe Brett in Colorado. What

750
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: a wonderful message. Thank you, Brett. Yeah that he raises

751
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: some excellent points here about just the experience of climbing

752
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: the mountain, all these little things that uh, you know

753
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: we met. I not really have thought about as much

754
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: or stressed in that episode. Like I love the idea

755
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: of the false peaks, you know, or just you know,

756
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: driving home. Um, like the bodily awareness of that kind

757
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: of physical exertion, which certainly there's an element to that

758
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 1: in all exercise, you know, where oh my body healing,

759
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: my body more than usual, I'm feeling my breath more

760
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: than usual, and that is grounding us in the now.

761
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 1: It is an exercise and mindfulness, the exercise and mindfulness

762
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 1: to a very large extent, like the primordial exercise in

763
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: in mindfulness. But the change in elevation would seem to

764
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: um to make this even more pronounced. Yeah, yeah, totally that.

765
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right. And now I just wish

766
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: I could go climb a mountain, but now more than ever,

767
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: I mean recording a podcast in my closet. Thanks Brett,

768
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: I I totally so. I I in no way have

769
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: ever done like the the actual like dangerous or athletic

770
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: type of mountain climbing. You know, I'm not that sort

771
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: of person, but I do absolutely feel this urge to

772
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: get up on top of natural heights. Like you know,

773
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: I see I see a big hill or rock, and

774
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: I feel an instinct to climb on top of it.

775
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: It's very powerful and I and I do want to obey.

776
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: That's the goat mind speaking to you, right, That's the

777
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: the Sader brain take And over all, right, I think

778
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: we should finish up with one last email here and

779
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: and I really loved this one. So this was in

780
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: response to um our episodes about a World before Fire.

781
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: This is also an older pair of episodes that we

782
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: re ran recently, I think um where we talked about

783
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: the history of fire on Earth. You know the interesting

784
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: fact that Earth is often known as the water planet,

785
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: but Earth is maybe even more uniquely the fire planet.

786
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: It's the only place in the Solar System we could

787
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: think of really where you could have fire, because it

788
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: has the oxygen to react with the fuel and all

789
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: that things that other things in the Solar System that

790
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: we think of as fiery, like the Sun are not fiery.

791
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: Like the Sun is a you know, giant ball of

792
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: hot gas and plasma, big fusion reaction, and nothing is

793
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: actually on fire there. But then we also talked in

794
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: that episode about how necessary fire is for the unique

795
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: history of human technological development. For example, it's really hard

796
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: to imagine like an under water intelligent species ever developing

797
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: the same kind of technological regimes that we did that

798
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: ruled human history, because those regimes are based so strongly

799
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: on things like metal working, which, as we understand it

800
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: is dependent on fire. I don't know, maybe you could

801
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: figure out some of the way on using hydrothermal vents

802
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: to work metal or something, but it seems hard to picture.

803
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: And in response to this pair of episodes, Corey writes

804
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: in Corey says, Robert and Joe, I was listening to

805
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: some back episodes and found the world before Fire the

806
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: human flame. It was very interesting and included the unintended

807
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: bonus that it reminded me of Chesterton's remarks on the

808
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: poetical name of Smith in Heretics, thank you for what

809
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: you do? And then Corey attaches a quote from G. K. Chesterton,

810
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: And so the context here is that Chesterton is talking

811
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: about um finding what he calls the poetical sense lying

812
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: under all things. He's essentially trying to make a point

813
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: that in fact, there are no uninterest sing subjects. There

814
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: are only subjects where we fail to see what's interesting

815
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: about them. And so somebody challenges him on on the

816
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: sensibility of his and says that they offer up the

817
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: example of a character in a book named Mr. Smith.

818
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: Presumably this name is is a boring name, right, It's

819
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: an unremarkable feature for a character to have, And like,

820
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: how could you find something interesting about a character named Smith?

821
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: And Chesterton responds like this quote. In the case of Smith,

822
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: the name is so poetical that it must be an

823
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: arduous and heroic matter for the man to live up

824
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: to it. The name of smith is the name of

825
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 1: the one trade that even kings respected. It could claim

826
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 1: half the glory of that arm of verum Quay which

827
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: all epics acclaimed. The spirit of the smithy is so

828
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: close to the spirit of song that it has mixed

829
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: in a million poems. And every blacksmith is a harmonious blacksmith.

830
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: Even the village children feel that, in some dim way,

831
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: the smith it is poetic, as the grosser and cobbler

832
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: are not poetic when they feast on the dancing sparks

833
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: and deafening blows in the cavern of that creative violence.

834
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: The brute repose of nature, the passionate cunning of man,

835
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: the strongest of earthly metals, the weirdest of earthly elements,

836
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: the unconquerable iron subdued by its only conqueror. The wheel

837
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: and the plowshare, the sword and the steam hammer, the

838
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: arraying of armies, and the whole legend of arms. All

839
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: these things are written briefly, indeed, but quite legibly on

840
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: the visiting card of Mr Smith. That's wonderful. I love

841
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: this and I for me this encapsulates a lot of

842
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: what I try to do with this show is try

843
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: to find the thing that you might not even realize

844
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: has something interesting and mysterious lying underneath it, and dig

845
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: down into that that sediment. Yeah. Absolutely, the idea that

846
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: that there are no uninteresting topics, that that is something

847
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: that we we try and take to heart here. I

848
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: mean they're there are. Of course, there are topics that

849
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: we tend not to cover on the show. But I

850
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: think it has always been our experience, has always been

851
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: my experience with h you know how stuff works as

852
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 1: well prior to all of this that, you know, any

853
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: any assignment that one gets, any topic that has passed

854
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: down or suggested by another, you know, there's there's gonna

855
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: be something there. Once you start digging around, you're gonna

856
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: find some nugget of wonder. Well, what I would admit

857
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: is that I think, I think I agree with Chesterton,

858
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 1: like there are no uninteresting topics, only topics which we

859
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: fail to find what's interesting about. But there. But I

860
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: admit that there are plenty of topics where I keep

861
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: failing to find what's interesting about them, like that, you

862
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: know there there are things that don't interest me. I

863
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 1: just want to say that I think that's a failing

864
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: on my part. I haven't gotten there yet. I mean,

865
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: part of it is like, you know, you lock yourself

866
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: in a room long enough, and the walls will start

867
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: speaking to you. Right, your mind will find the patterns

868
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: where there are no patterns. Um. Spend enough time with

869
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: a topic that you might otherwise not really um you

870
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 1: know that you know might otherwise not research, and you'll

871
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: you'll you'll suddenly start seeing things you didn't see before,

872
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: though hopefully things that are actually there. Right, I hope

873
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: we're not just like always hallucinating interesting things about Well, No,

874
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: we do our best to keep it real. I think,

875
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: so all right, Well, I think maybe we need to

876
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: call our first listener mail episode right there. But we've

877
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: got another whole episode worth of listener mail to catch

878
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: up on that we're gonna feature next week. I believe, yes,

879
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: and I believe the plan is we're going to have

880
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: recorded these listener mails before anyone has had a chance

881
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: to respond to the episode that we have coming out

882
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: this month on a Star Wars related topic. So if

883
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: you if you end up writing in about that topic, uh,

884
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: we'll have to catch you on the next listener mail,

885
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: which you know hopefully won't be quite as um as

886
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: far in the future. Maybe we can get back in

887
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: a pattern of doing one of these a month like

888
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: we used to. I don't know, we'll see. We'll see

889
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: if we get to do anything like we used to.

890
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: That's kind of the big open question right right, But

891
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: either way, keep them coming. We we always love hearing

892
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: from you, absolutely. In the meantime, if you want to

893
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow your mind,

894
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: you will find us wherever you find your podcasts and

895
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: wherever that happens to be whatever strange program or aggregate

896
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: or uh you know, uh you know. Back Alley Shady

897
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: h Man in a trench code who sells podcasts on

898
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 1: thumb drives. I don't know wherever you get the show.

899
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: If there is a way to rate, review and subscribe,

900
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: then you should do it. If the man in the

901
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: trench coat has like a notepad where you write down

902
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: a little review and UH and leave your your name

903
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: and social Security number, then I guess go ahead and

904
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: do that because that probably helps us out huge Thanks

905
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,720
Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson.

906
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

907
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other to UH

908
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: to submit some listener mail that might be featured in

909
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: a future listener Mail episode, you can email us at contact.

910
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: That's Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to

911
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For

912
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart

913
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening to your

914
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: favorite shows