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Speaker 1: Like the fact that like I never look for parking.

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Speaker 1: I don't you know what I mean. It may take

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Speaker 1: me a couple of minutes, but like I always parked

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Speaker 1: near my destination. It's just little things where just feel

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Speaker 1: like my folks are taking care of me. You who,

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Speaker 1: You got a whole squad sort of coming together to

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Speaker 1: make sure that the cars move when they need to.

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Speaker 1: And we all can you know what I mean, like

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Speaker 1: we all looking for parking. If you talk to your ghosts,

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Speaker 1: racist money, martial stuff, you can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep,

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Speaker 1: there it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the

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Speaker 1: podcast where we dive deep deep into the pockets of

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Speaker 1: black conspiracy theories and we finally work to prove that

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Speaker 1: race relations in this country will never be solved until

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Speaker 1: Wes Anderson exclusively starts making movies starring Clifton pal That's right.

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Speaker 1: We need the whitest filmmaker and the blackest star of

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Speaker 1: every b et plus film to come together and solve

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Speaker 1: what is broken in this country. It's the only way, folks.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Langston Kerman as always coming at you hig,

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Speaker 1: baby coming in spry. I'm feeling good today. Baby. I

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Speaker 1: got I got a nice little I got some pepper

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Speaker 1: in my step, you know what I mean. I got

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Speaker 1: I got some some a little hooks fun. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited because my guest today she is a

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Speaker 1: person who deserves respects. Most of the people I have

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Speaker 1: on this podcast are absolute idiot their foods, they're they're

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Speaker 1: clowns who just say silly things. But she's a person

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Speaker 1: who says very important things and thoughtful things. She's careful

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Speaker 1: with the language that she used that she's a journalist,

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Speaker 1: she's a cultural critic, and more importantly, she has a

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Speaker 1: podcast called Mom and Dad Are Fighting. It's a a

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Speaker 1: parenting podcast. You know her, you love her? Please give

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Speaker 1: it up for my guests. Ms. Jamilla Lemieux, Hey, Hey,

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Speaker 1: thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, it's gonna be fun. This is uh I

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Speaker 1: I you heard it in the intro. We mostly have

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Speaker 1: comedians on, so it's always a beautiful treat when somebody

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Speaker 1: who uh takes themselves a little more seriously is here

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Speaker 1: to help enlighten us in a way that a bunch

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Speaker 1: of my dumb friends can't. My career is such a

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Speaker 1: great facade for how not serious I take myself, and

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Speaker 1: certainly none of my friends take me very seriously. Like

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Speaker 1: the fact that I would get that sort of intro

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Speaker 1: in my friend's circle is like a what the moment

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Speaker 1: to this day, because I really I am the joker,

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Speaker 1: I'm the silly one, I'm a friend. So yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I I'm hugely disappointed. Now you should be because I

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Speaker 1: came adequately unprepared to I did no research. I did.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful. I here. This is always my fear

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Speaker 1: whenever a journalist comes on is that you guys do

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Speaker 1: my My presumption of the work that you do is

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Speaker 1: you're constantly doing research. And so my fear is that

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Speaker 1: my my very inadequate research is only going to disappoint you.

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Speaker 1: But now that I know you didn't even do anything,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm gonna be I'm gonna be thriving

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Speaker 1: throughout this episode. Hell yeah, I'm excited. So you came

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Speaker 1: with a conspiracy theory that I'm super excited about because

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Speaker 1: we don't touch on the paranormal. In my opinion, often enough,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't come up as often as you might think

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Speaker 1: in this podcast, But you said my mama told me

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Speaker 1: black people don't see ghosts, So to be fair, that's

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Speaker 1: not what I said. I was presented a list of

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories to consider if I didn't have one of

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Speaker 1: my own. Yeah, and all the ones I had were

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Speaker 1: not fun at all, you know what I mean? Like, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that we could really I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess we could probably have a great conversation about the

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Speaker 1: Popeye's causing sterilization or churches chicken causing sterilization rumor that

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Speaker 1: rocks the nineties, but like, how much can we say

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Speaker 1: about that? But I thought that this one was really

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Speaker 1: interesting because I had never heard it before, and so

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe this was something you were familiar with.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to hear from you about black people

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Speaker 1: not hearing or not seeing ghosts, because I think I

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Speaker 1: have a counterpoint to that. Oh, I might disprove this

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Speaker 1: conspiracy that I was not familiar with until tell me

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Speaker 1: about it. You're telling me that you selected this just

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Speaker 1: so you could flip it on the head and tell

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Speaker 1: me why I'm stupid? How dare you, ma'am? How dare you?

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Speaker 1: Isn't that what cultural compensators? Yes, and I don't care

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Speaker 1: for that at all. No. I I write a lot

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Speaker 1: of silly things down, but I do think years ago

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Speaker 1: I used to do this bit about having lived with

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Speaker 1: a I lived with a white woman for a few years,

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Speaker 1: and she was a like an avid believer in like

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Speaker 1: ghosts and and the the fact that our apartment was haunted,

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Speaker 1: and she used to tell me there was like a

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Speaker 1: ghost in our apartment all the time. And we lived

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Speaker 1: in fucking where were we living. We were living in

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Speaker 1: Crown Heights at the time, on Eastern Parkway. So it's like, nah,

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Speaker 1: you don't get to you don't get to play ghost

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Speaker 1: games over here when we like are amongst all these

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Speaker 1: Jamaican people, you know what I mean. Like we went

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Speaker 1: there together. It was it was a joint decision. I

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Speaker 1: didn't go like, let me bring this white bitch to

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Speaker 1: Karen Heights and see what happens. It was we were

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Speaker 1: moving from Boston. We both needed a roommate, and and

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Speaker 1: we we teamed up to make that ship happen. You

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Speaker 1: came from Boston and thought the safest thing for your

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Speaker 1: black life that matters was to move to Crown Heights,

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn with a white woman. No, No, no, I thought

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Speaker 1: the cheapest thing for my black life was the move

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Speaker 1: to Crown Heights. For the white woman, I didn't think

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Speaker 1: it was safe. The moment we showed up, I'm glad.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you realized that you were not, in fact

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Speaker 1: safe the entire time this year. Oh no, I know

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Speaker 1: when I know when a McDonald dis haunted. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Our apartment was fine, but everything else

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Speaker 1: around that community was not doing well. It's I guess

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Speaker 1: better now, I don't. I mean, I lived in New

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Speaker 1: York probably around the same time. I loved Crown Heights then,

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Speaker 1: but I can just imagine it would have been a

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Speaker 1: difficult place for the two if you are to navigame

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Speaker 1: or not, I don't know. I feel like they leave

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Speaker 1: white women alone. It probably might have been harder for

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Speaker 1: me to walk around over there to Niggason. For her,

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Speaker 1: they might have just stepped out being called the police, right.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, uh, And we were like we were

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Speaker 1: on like Crown Heights, we were on like Eastern Parkway

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Speaker 1: and Troy, so like we were exactly we were moving

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Speaker 1: into sort of like where it becomes that hasidic side

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Speaker 1: of things. So I think for a white woman over there,

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Speaker 1: they're like, all right, we can make sense of of

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Speaker 1: why you're here, whereas like other, I look like an

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Speaker 1: outsider no matter what, ain't what direction I go into.

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Speaker 1: So it was just a bunch of niggas looking at

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Speaker 1: me weird and mean for no reason all day. No,

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Speaker 1: there's always been, but every black community has always had

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Speaker 1: their guy in the cardigan. I want to be special

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Speaker 1: so bad. You know that person went to college. Don't

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Speaker 1: mean they like it. Motherfucker's. Motherfucker's still have opinions even

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Speaker 1: though they're familiar with it. Okay. So, so that said,

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Speaker 1: she was an aver believer in ghosts, and I think,

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Speaker 1: and I'm curious to hear where you are with this

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Speaker 1: whole thing. I think that ghost personally, I do believe

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Speaker 1: that people see what they see. That like, if you

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Speaker 1: believe in ghosts, you probably are going to see ghosts.

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Speaker 1: That said, I do think that there's a weird conflation

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Speaker 1: that white people do sometimes with scary sounds and and

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Speaker 1: sort of like odd objects or experiences with what is

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Speaker 1: probably a human experience outside of their their cultural norm,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Okay, So I'm gonna sound super

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Speaker 1: hotep hat Okay, hold on, that's how they get you.

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Speaker 1: But that's how they get you. This is seriously how

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Speaker 1: white people try to get you, for real. But she

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Speaker 1: has one of my favorite podcasts, a little Bit of

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Speaker 1: Juju and the host Juju Bay, because she articulated this

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Speaker 1: in a way to really kind of helped me to

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Speaker 1: make sense of it. So what are ghosts? Right? Those

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Speaker 1: are dead people, right, people that used to be dead.

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Speaker 1: So that's your grandparents, that might be one of your

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Speaker 1: you know friends, we're grown friends, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Like people we've known, Were they cars? Were they monsters?

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Speaker 1: So why do we have this negative idea when we

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Speaker 1: think of ghosts? You know, we think of people or

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Speaker 1: spirits have been here before, you know. And I get

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Speaker 1: part of it is just popular culture has glamorized or

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Speaker 1: you know, there's been a lot of movies and TV

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Speaker 1: shows and books that since her around the idea of

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Speaker 1: haunting or somebody coming back with a bad you know,

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Speaker 1: intention or not wanting to do something good. And then

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Speaker 1: there's you know, videos and and books and you know,

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Speaker 1: even when you're a little kid about ghosts coming back

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Speaker 1: to do good things. But it's still kind of like

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Speaker 1: this weird being that's outside of you. It's not aspirational.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it's usually kind of portrayed as if these

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Speaker 1: spirits are stuck, you know, like they shouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to talk to you, they shouldn't be in the house, right.

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Speaker 1: Even Casper is a boy who wishes he wasn't dead.

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Speaker 1: He's nice, but he's like, funk, I wish I was

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Speaker 1: still kicking it, right, And so when are in some

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Speaker 1: of the African traditions that we were stolen from, our

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Speaker 1: ancestors communicated with ancestors, right, with people who had gone

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Speaker 1: on to the other side. You saw it depicted in

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Speaker 1: Black Panther right on some level, and I guess that's

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Speaker 1: most people's kind of mainstream introduction to to that level

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Speaker 1: of ancestral veneration, right, the idea that like I respect

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Speaker 1: and I care for and I talked to my ancestors,

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Speaker 1: so like so to me, when I think of ghosts,

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Speaker 1: are people that were here, Like those are my ancestors,

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Speaker 1: and like I do have a communication with them because

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Speaker 1: I talked to them and I set out food for them.

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Speaker 1: I have an altar set up in my house. I've

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Speaker 1: gone full California bioble girl in the past two years,

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Speaker 1: but It's like the most powerful thing that I've ever done.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's something that black people need to

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Speaker 1: tap into and white people need to tappen and other

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Speaker 1: folks who haven't find out what your ancestors did and

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Speaker 1: t happened that I have a lot of white blood

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Speaker 1: and me I'm here. At some point I'm going to

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Speaker 1: figure out, like, Okay, well what did my ancestors on

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Speaker 1: that side? What were their spiritual rituals. I hope it

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Speaker 1: wasn't killing black people, you know what I mean, Like

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Speaker 1: it probably was in you know, but like what were

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Speaker 1: the things they did to honor their ancestors and they're dead?

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Speaker 1: And like, I think that that's something that we should

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Speaker 1: as as African Americans. We have not been taught that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like in church, you're taught the spirits are bad,

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Speaker 1: and the movies you're taught they're scary. These are your

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Speaker 1: people set out, you know, your grandma's favorite candy bar

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Speaker 1: and a glass of water and a white candle for her. Wow,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be something super involved or crazy.

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Speaker 1: Start small, but start talking to your ghosts. Start talking

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Speaker 1: to your ghosts, is what you're telling me. But I

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Speaker 1: have so many questions because this is a completely new

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Speaker 1: idea to me. Right, I've never I've never once been

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Speaker 1: encouraged to talk to any ghosts. In fact, I think

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Speaker 1: I've always functioned of the presumption that if I do

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Speaker 1: not talk to them, they will not bother me. We

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Speaker 1: we can, we can live at peace amongst each other. Right,

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Speaker 1: So what am I meant? What is this candle meant

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Speaker 1: to do? Like it? Is this just a way of

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Speaker 1: initiating the conversation at the point that I've initiated it.

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Speaker 1: Are they coming to me like themselves as they were living,

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Speaker 1: or is it like some weird dementia version of that

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Speaker 1: that person who was gonna say, some weird scary ship

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Speaker 1: that I gotta process. So that depends what your level

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Speaker 1: of communication is and right, And there are people who

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Speaker 1: have powers where they can really communicate beyond what the

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Speaker 1: average person can write. I am, not, to my knowledge,

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Speaker 1: one of those people. And I'm certainly not a guide

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Speaker 1: or a teacher or you know, I'm still relatively new

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Speaker 1: to you know, ancestral veneration myself. But as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: when you light a candle and you make the offering

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Speaker 1: of water food, you know, maybe some of their something

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Speaker 1: that reminds you of them. Maybe if you these are

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Speaker 1: people that you know and you have to have, you

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Speaker 1: should have a separate all ste for your relatives from

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Speaker 1: your friends. You know, you can do something for friends

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Speaker 1: and other people you admire too, but for your family,

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Speaker 1: you want to have a place where it's like here's

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Speaker 1: big Mama, here's Granddaddy. You know, like here's my cousin

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Speaker 1: passed away. Like you don't talk to the same ship

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Speaker 1: with your with your grandma that you talk with your

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Speaker 1: your ghost homies exactly. That would be different, you know,

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Speaker 1: and like you know, you can go to that space.

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Speaker 1: I go twice today. Some people go a few times

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Speaker 1: a week. Some people go as they feel compelled to

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Speaker 1: do so, you know, and you can talk to them,

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Speaker 1: you know, I kind of talk to them as a group,

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Speaker 1: you know. I just say I'm thankful that they're part

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Speaker 1: of my life, that they care for me, that I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm part of this family that I come from, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that that I hope they're well, and that I

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Speaker 1: hope they accept my offering. You know, it's usually a

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Speaker 1: plate of whatever food. I don't eat breakfast, but I

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Speaker 1: make them breakfast. But like I when I eat dinner

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Speaker 1: at night, I set out a plate for food for them.

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Speaker 1: Like if I don't cook, then if I go to

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Speaker 1: popye as a good tupopeye chicken sandwich. You know, I

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Speaker 1: went out from my you know, my big hobies and

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Speaker 1: the sky and you know it in terms of communication,

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Speaker 1: and I won't share everything because it's personal, but like

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Speaker 1: I haven't really openly talked to me about any of

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Speaker 1: this before. You know, sometimes there's messages, right sometimes like

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Speaker 1: there's something you were trying to see clarity on, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe the that you were working on that just figures

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Speaker 1: itself out and you're like, oh, this is how I ended.

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Speaker 1: You know. For me, it could be something that I'm

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Speaker 1: writing and you know, or or just material that i'm

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Speaker 1: you know, something that I've been noodling on, like an

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Speaker 1: essay just kind of starts and and spills out of

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Speaker 1: my you know, brain and I just got to pull

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Speaker 1: over and put it in my notes app So it's

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Speaker 1: not that it always happens like when I'm at the alter,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, But just these little things

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Speaker 1: that have been unlocked. I got you. So let me

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Speaker 1: ask you a little bit about this food because this

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Speaker 1: is I WoT, I'm dumb and I loved it. So

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Speaker 1: you put out some Popeye's, right you have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen a bite taken out of that bad boy? No,

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Speaker 1: nobody's gonna eat the food. Nobody's gonna eat the food,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have to do Some people will do

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Speaker 1: a part, like if they're eating a sandwich, they just

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Speaker 1: cut off piece of the sand you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like I, if it's a meal, I usually they'll usually

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Speaker 1: get a smaller portion than what I feed us. But

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's kind of like, you know, I'm gonna give

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Speaker 1: you the big piece of chicken. I gotta for a

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Speaker 1: piece of the big piece of chicken out. And to me,

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Speaker 1: it's just this kind of like sign of respect and acknowledgement.

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Speaker 1: You know. Also it's it sounds similar to like in

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Speaker 1: the Bible when you like cut a goat, like you

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Speaker 1: you chop a goat head off, and you know like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this goats for you God, and then the other goat

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Speaker 1: is for us, and we eat that goat. But this

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Speaker 1: no essentially yeah, like we we don't eat this one.

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Speaker 1: And so you can do that with Popeyes. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that I do it with if I have a

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Speaker 1: milkshake or Starbucks or something, I don't finish it, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I say, if I don't

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Speaker 1: pour some out, usually if I have an alcoholic spe

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Speaker 1: or drink, I usually pour some out, you know. But

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Speaker 1: if I'm out in public, I can always pour my

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Speaker 1: drink out, So I just leave some you know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got you, So let me ask you. This is

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Speaker 1: this a practice that you grew up with in like

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Speaker 1: your childhood home or is this something you then? I

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Speaker 1: know you said you you've really gotten into it later

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Speaker 1: in life, but like, is that something that that you

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Speaker 1: created for yourself or were you being taught that by

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Speaker 1: by your parents, by the people before you whatever. No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get any of this growing up. Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: my father practices or practice or religious tradition that involves

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Speaker 1: some of these kind of rituals. But we were kind

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Speaker 1: of allowed to make our own decisions. I didn't live

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Speaker 1: in the house with him, and we were all kind

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Speaker 1: of like allowed to make our own decisions about like

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Speaker 1: how we wanted to engage virtuality. So I explored a

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Speaker 1: few things. But now, this is something I discovered quite

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Speaker 1: recently in the past two years, and what motivated that

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Speaker 1: transition into welcoming spirits in this way because you know,

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Speaker 1: like you said, if we live in a in a

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Speaker 1: society that teaches us that ghosts are scary, and so

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Speaker 1: for me, as a person who treats them like some

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Speaker 1: scary motherfucker's, I think I would feel hesitant to start

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Speaker 1: to treat ghosts differently. So was there something in your

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Speaker 1: life beyond I know you said you you listen to

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Speaker 1: that podcast, but like, is there anything that prompted you deciding, like, Yo,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be scared of them anymore, I'm gonna

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00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,320
Speaker 1: welcome them in a different way. I was never scared

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Speaker 1: of ghosts, you know, Like I hadn't thought, like I

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Speaker 1: kind of always thought, to what extent I thought about

325
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 1: it that if people were communicating with me, it was

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Speaker 1: usually in my best interests, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Like I hadn't crossed anybody, so like nobody should be

328
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 1: coming back mad at me, you know what I mean.

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00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,399
Speaker 1: Like if anybody, if somebody's on the other side, and

330
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: if they've got of all the people in the world

331
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,399
Speaker 1: they have access to there trying to talk to me,

332
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,239
Speaker 1: they're probably trying to have it back, you know. But

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00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,560
Speaker 1: like I can't remember the inciting moment. I just remember

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00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,920
Speaker 1: that that I noticed. And I was living in Brooklyn

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00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: at the time where I first started really kind of

336
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: noodling around this stuff. But I noticed that a lot

337
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: of the women around me were doing these things when

338
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 1: I really admired, and that they would talk about, you know,

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00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 1: their ancestors, and they were talking about their ancestors in

340
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 1: a way that I wasn't, because when I talked about

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00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: my ancestors, I might as well have been talking about

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00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 1: like Malcolm X and Harriet Up, you know what I mean,

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00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,040
Speaker 1: like we would say ancestors or you know, probably at

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00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 1: some in an event or a dinner where people were

345
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 1: pouring libations for their you know, I was thinking of

346
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,400
Speaker 1: those people like more still than I was my own family,

347
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: and you know, it kind of started me doing some

348
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 1: just kind of thinking about how it was disconnected from

349
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,199
Speaker 1: most of my you know, my the people when you

350
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 1: think of your your folks, like your grandparents, you know,

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00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 1: like how I was, you know, my past. Most of

352
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 1: mine passed away when I was pretty young, so I

353
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 1: didn't get to know them, you know, and so we

354
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,719
Speaker 1: didn't really have a relationship. And how I had some

355
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,160
Speaker 1: resentment about some things that happened before I was born,

356
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,679
Speaker 1: and just some stuff I need to work through, and

357
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 1: so kind of send me on a journey of thinking

358
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 1: about them. And over time, you know, I became aware

359
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 1: of ultra building and the idea of like trying to

360
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: actually communicate with them, and so you know, I picked

361
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 1: up some books, listen to some podcasts and some Instagram streams,

362
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,880
Speaker 1: and you know, again like I'm not an expert, but

363
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 1: you know, I would say to that my ancestors are

364
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 1: my religion at this point. You know, this is kind

365
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: of what my spiritual practice like primarily is, and I

366
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: feel very good about it. You know. I talked to

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Speaker 1: them and then I pray, and I just I've never praised,

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00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:38,639
Speaker 1: so I said day in my life. You know, like

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Speaker 1: I've just never been that consistent spiritually, and this is

370
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: just I don't know, I just feel like my life

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00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 1: has been going well. Like things have been good, you know,

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00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 1: They've been It's it's a pandemic, like I'm suffering like

373
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 1: everybody else. I definitely have sometimes the past two years.

374
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean, like in general, my

375
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 1: ability to deal with it has been improved. Like you

376
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: hit your our own stride in sort of like accepting

377
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 1: of I guess, uh, these new rituals in your life.

378
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me because I think the way you're

379
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,479
Speaker 1: articulating this I've never thought of. But I do think

380
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: that is something really important in sort of taking ancestors

381
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 1: as a word, from like this generic space of like

382
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: the you know, the people we find in a in

383
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 1: a high school textbook, to people that are literally people

384
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 1: who were connected to what becomes your day to day

385
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: the experiences that are right in front of you. And

386
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 1: I would argue there's probably a level of like intentionality

387
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 1: right that, Like for black people especially, we are trained

388
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: to not see our our own people as valuable and

389
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,160
Speaker 1: just to be like, well, you know these big, hyperbolic,

390
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: extreme names, those are the ones you should you should

391
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 1: look up to. But your grandma and ship and I

392
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: gotta ever think about her as a valuable human on

393
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: the planet whatever. And it's like, Malcolm X is not

394
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: the reason you're alive, what I mean, like like that

395
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,959
Speaker 1: was not his walk. I didn't say that, but you

396
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like your your grandparents met and

397
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: and made a serious of decisions that led to your

398
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, one of your parents being here and unlessie

399
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: you're being here, and like that alone is something to honor,

400
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: and like you can have a complicated relationship with these people,

401
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, for some unfortunate that I don't have abuse

402
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: or or trauma related to any of my ancestors, you

403
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: know what I mean, that I know of or anything

404
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: like that. But I know that you know, there are

405
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: people who do you know what I mean, And that's

406
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 1: to work through that. And what I've heard about it,

407
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: and again I'm not the expert, is that you know,

408
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: the people who may have harmed you on this side

409
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: might be the ones working the hardest to help you

410
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: out on the other side. You know, perhaps the grandparent

411
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 1: who was very miserly and unkind, you know, becomes the

412
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: generous parent, you know figure on the other side. But

413
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: the one thing I want to make sure I connected

414
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: is like the music you played or the little hotep

415
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: sound bite thing that our ancestors who were enslaved, you know,

416
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: came with these practices and were prohibited from practicing openly,

417
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and so they began to,

418
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: depending on where they were located, hide their religious practices

419
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: and their ways of showing reverence to ancestors and staying

420
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: connects them in other things, and certain parts of the

421
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: world that was Africans hiding their spiritual practices and Catholicism, right, So,

422
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: which is why if you go to certain parts of

423
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: New York and you see all these you know, black

424
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 1: Spanish speaking people, you know with Catholic you know all around,

425
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: and they're not Catholic, you know what I mean, it's

426
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 1: really really fascinating, Like we've always figured out ways to

427
00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: do what we've always done. And you know, from every

428
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: history of Africa that I've I've come across, like something

429
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: we've always done has been talking to our ancestors. So

430
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: I think it's just a great opportunity that African Americans

431
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: have that most of us have been scared out of

432
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: participating it or just have never heard somebody talk about

433
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: it like this before. Yeah, and I think you you

434
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: made a really interesting point that that I think helps

435
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 1: to sort of ease someone into this experience or at

436
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: least considering an experience like this, which is the fact

437
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: that like your grandparents and you may have a complicated

438
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: relationship or your ancestors and you may may have a

439
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: complicated relationship and that's okay. I think ghosts for for

440
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: the average consumer are are sort of treated as like

441
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: the scary entities because they themselves are just bad people

442
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: or complicated people, or people that still needed to solve

443
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: a problem that got left behind. And in a lot

444
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: of ways, the human experience is that. So there is

445
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: no good ghosts and bad ghosts. It's just complicated individuals

446
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: who can either lift you up or help you answer

447
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: questions that maybe you you couldn't answer yourself, or help

448
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: you find free parking wherever that can exist. But one

449
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: way or the other are there for for resolve more

450
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: than adding conflict. As you're you're sort of putting it,

451
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, we just you know, we don't. And

452
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: that's not to say that you know, there aren't spirits

453
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: that may have bad intentions, but like that's not our

454
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: definitive history of engaging with ghosts, you know, like as

455
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: the people for us, engaging with ghosts means talking to

456
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: our dead and and speaking to them with respects or

457
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: just thinking about how black people do funerals, you know

458
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like just that there's a level of

459
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: performance for a lot of them, you know, the ritual

460
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: of the repast and kind of like who cooks and

461
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: what they cook or or you know, just the amount

462
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 1: of time that we spend together. I think, you know,

463
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: on those occasions is and how it's spent is on

464
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: some level, I think, a nod to how we used

465
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: to feneralize I did, you know what I mean? I

466
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: think the thing that was missing is that for a

467
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: lot of people, the communication of the conversation stops there,

468
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: you know. But but but I've always throughout my life

469
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: heard people talk about you know, it may just be

470
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: posting an Instagram picture and they're writing it to the

471
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: dead homie, you know what I mean, or people talking

472
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: about you know, sometimes I feel my mother's presence and

473
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: I just talked to her, you know. Like I think

474
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people are engaging in their day to

475
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: day life without calling it anything in particular. Do you

476
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: think that the hesitancy to call it something in particular

477
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: or to to directly align it with what you're describing

478
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: with like an altar and sort of like this active

479
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: effort to place food in front of the altar towards

480
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: your your ancestors is connected to black people's relationship with

481
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: religion in this country that like you know, we we

482
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: got a heavy hand of Christianity like slapped on top

483
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: of us. Do you think that that is in any

484
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: way in obstruction to what we're moving towards in your

485
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: your description of ghosts. Absolutely, And there are people far

486
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: smarter than me who can really make the connection between

487
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: what goes down and and you know a lot of

488
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: our average Black churches and some of our traditional stuff

489
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: and how there's a through line, you know what I mean,

490
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: like how it's not all brand new and native to America.

491
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: Some of this is our traditional spiritual practice. It's just

492
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: showing up with this other religion that we've been you know,

493
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: introduced to. But like, yeah, I mean there's a deep

494
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: fear of African spirituality and Africans that lives in a

495
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: whole lot of African American people, and uh, you know,

496
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: fear of I mean we've been made to feel infeori

497
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: and the inferiority complex is not limited to like what

498
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: we think of African Americans on some levels, what we

499
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: think of who we were before we got here, you know,

500
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: like not thinking of us as industrial. I mean there

501
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: are some people that only can think of us as

502
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: kings and queens before you know, slavery. And then there

503
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: are people that can't think of us as having a

504
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: society and having ristules and things that matter, you know,

505
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: that just kind of thinks of us as these our ancestors.

506
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: Is these folks that were just kind of there until

507
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: they were uprooted, you know, but that they don't have

508
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: any real imagination or curiosity around who they were before.

509
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: But like also as a means of survival, you know

510
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like on the plantation, you had to

511
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: hide these things. And so for some people the hiding

512
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: was how do I get creative and and figure out

513
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: a way to stay true to myself? And for others

514
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: it was how do I, you know, assimilate into something

515
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: that you know, it is safer and easier for me

516
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: to deal with, you know, how do I survive my circumstances,

517
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: which I think connects really nicely back to what you

518
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: were saying about, like the this adopting of like Catholic

519
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: candles for non Catholic not services, but experiences. It's just

520
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: we are using what is placed in front of us

521
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: to express ourselves however we can. And it doesn't necessarily

522
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: matter if this is the right equipment for the job.

523
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: The job is just getting done however we needed to

524
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: get done. That's essentially the story of our lives as

525
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: black people, right, Like, we don't always have the quote

526
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: unquote right equipment, but somehow we have to figure out

527
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: how to get through. And that's what we've done, you know.

528
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: And a big part of the reason that we've gotten

529
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: through is our relationship to religion, both our traditional religion

530
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: and our relationships Christianity. But it's also in some ways

531
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: held us back because there are things that we don't

532
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: challenge and things that we don't interrogate or you know,

533
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: attitudes that are incredibly detrimental that are funnel through the

534
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: church that you know, are a lot of our people

535
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: are successful to. It's tricky. Yeah, White Jesus, uh, he ain't.

536
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: He ain't done the best for us. I think there

537
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: are times, right, I love White Jesus, but he's not

538
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: always the best. There there's a bunch of hurt that

539
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: comes along with at least the representation of him. For sure.

540
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: There's there's the hurt of the representation. There's the way

541
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: that black queer people have been made to hide, you know,

542
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: in the music ministry, right, hide in the dance ministry,

543
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 1: hide you know, with their little friends and and you

544
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: know at gatherings. There's the ways that black women, you

545
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: know a lot of black women are in these deeply

546
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: emotional and on some level unhealthy relationships with their pastors,

547
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It becomes the man of

548
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: the household, even though he's not the man of the household,

549
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: and they're tithing money that they don't have and making

550
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: sure that he's getting a new Cadillac or his mortgage

551
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: paid off for his anniversary. But they're struggling to make

552
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: ends meet, and so, you know, contorting to some ideas

553
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: about gender that that don't really work necessarily for us,

554
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: but that have been funneled to us through religion. You know. Yeah,

555
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: let me ask you this last question before we go

556
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: to break you are you are a mother, and I'm

557
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: curious to know how this newer practice in your life

558
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: now relates with your daughter. It's this something that you

559
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: are teaching her as well. Are you at all worried

560
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: that she's gonna like bring this up at school and

561
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: then people are gonna be like, get your weird ass

562
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: out of here. With the ancestors and the altars and

563
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: all that is this is this something you're worried about,

564
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: are you like? Hell yeah, this is an exciting let's

565
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: dig in. You know what I thought, Hell yeah, this

566
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: is exciting. Let's dig in. And I brought her into it,

567
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, after not very long. You know, I have

568
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: told her that the altar is among the number of

569
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: things that happened in our household that might be different

570
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: than what other people doing their households. And so our

571
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: household business is our business. So you don't need to

572
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: tell anybody everything. We eat, what we what I put

573
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: out for home. Who comes through here? Like you know,

574
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: I think the traditional the tradition of a black mama's

575
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: business is her business is something that I have managed

576
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: to indoctrinate. It's her that's very smart. You stack tradition

577
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: on tradition, and it sort of protects the tradition from

578
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: being damaging for both you and hers as she's navigating

579
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: the world as a young person. Hell yeah, all right,

580
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more

581
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: than me, a little new and more. My mama told me.

582
00:31:48,240 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: And we are that. No, no, yep, yep, we're back.

583
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: We're back. We're still here with more, Jamila Lemieux, more

584
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: and my mama told me, we're still talking about the

585
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: possibility that goes do in fact exists and that black

586
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: people can see them again. I was I was bamboozled

587
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: with this episode. I was presented this as if Jamila

588
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: believe this or at least considered this, And it turns

589
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: out this was just a character study. This was just

590
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: her chance to make me feel shame at uh at

591
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: presenting this very dumb idea in the first place. Do

592
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: you feel like, and this is I guess maybe a

593
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: good question to lead us into some of the research

594
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: that I did, do you feel like in relation to this,

595
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: this con this this conversation around the ancestral uh plane,

596
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: around these these ancestors that you're experiencing things with, do

597
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: you feel like they've ever presented themselves in an actual,

598
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: like physical form. Have you seen one of your ancestors before? No,

599
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: I have not. Are you at all concerned that that

600
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: might happen and that changes your relationship with them? It

601
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: might change the relationship. I'm not concerned about it. You know,

602
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: That's that's something I worry over. Okay, You're like, if

603
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: it happens, we'll figure it out. Things. It's just not

604
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: a thing to SIW my mind. It's not like what

605
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: if they walked through. I'm like, nobody's gonna bite the sandwich,

606
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: you know, and just that that would be the part

607
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: that sucks me up. I could not handle somebody biting

608
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: the sandwich. And still I don't think I can handle

609
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: that either. But it's not gonna happen. I feel confident

610
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: the sandwich won't be bidden unless my child decides to

611
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: violate what I've explicitly instructed her, which is that we

612
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: don't eat the altru food. Don't you dare eat that sandwich?

613
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: Al right? Well, fair enough, you have much more faith

614
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: than I do that, Uh, people are gonna be reasonable

615
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: about not eating those sandwiches. Let's dig into some of

616
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: this research, because I think some of this might I

617
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: don't know what it does anymore, actually, because I think

618
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: you've you've spoken so eloquently about some of like what

619
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: you consider to be ghosts. But I'd be curious to

620
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: hear what you think about what the standard beliefs of

621
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: ghosts are sort of being communicated as through like I guess,

622
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: research and science, if we want to call some of

623
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: this that. So, a study from this company you give

624
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: shows that forty one percent of Americans believe in ghosts,

625
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: and only twenty percent of those people actually claim to

626
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: have seen a ghost. So almost half of us think

627
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: ghosts are real. Only about of us actually feel like

628
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: we've we've encountered some sort of paranormal spirit. That's interesting.

629
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not surprised that those numbers, you know.

630
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: I I also think, like, I don't know, like we're

631
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: obviously from something very vast and complicated, right, Like, so

632
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: the idea that it just ends at death, it's easy

633
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: to believe otherwise, because like what a just fascinating thing

634
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: that the world is, you know what I mean, Like,

635
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know what the other side looks like,

636
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: so I think why not believe in something else? I mean,

637
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: we could be I could be completely Ryan, could just

638
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: die and that's the end. But like I feel good,

639
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: you know, thinking otherwise, Like it it feels nice. It

640
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: feels like you're a part of something. So I don't

641
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: really see the harm. And you know, people just kind

642
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: of blindly, you know, the majority of us who have

643
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: not seen a ghost believing that there is some sort

644
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: of spiritual matter. Yeah, what's especially fascinating if in this

645
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: um this sort of like research study that they did

646
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: is that forty percent of Americans believe that ghosts exists,

647
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: but forty three percent of Americans believe that demons exists.

648
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: The number actually like spikes a little bit when you

649
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: start putting this in a different context. And I'd be

650
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: curious to hear your thoughts on why you think that

651
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: might be. Why are we more Keep in mind, they've

652
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: only eleven percent of those people actually think they've seen

653
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: a demon or encountered a demon, but they are much

654
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 1: more faithful, much more. They're more faithful regarding demons than

655
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: they are regarding ghosts. Why is that. I think it's

656
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: because of the the desire to believe that there's some

657
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: evil force responsible for some of the things that happened

658
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: in the world, as opposed to recognizing the evil of

659
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: human beings, you know, to like the idea that a

660
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: devil figure is responsible for our problems, as opposed to like,

661
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: no students an asshole and he shut up at school.

662
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: You know, everybody looked the other way like he was

663
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: an asshole for a very long time. You know. Yeah,

664
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: it's like BL's above, didn't get him. That's that's him.

665
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: That's always was, you know. And so if spirits come

666
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: from humans or if spirits you know, become humans, I

667
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: guess depending on how you look at that process. But like,

668
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: ultimately I can't imagine that they're all good, you know,

669
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 1: like I don't believe that like just because somebody's dead,

670
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: like now you know, they're they're on the winning's team,

671
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: or they just want everybody to live, right, I think

672
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: that's an ideal outcome for most people. And and and

673
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: I think that perhaps that might be the outcome for

674
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: most people that they're trying to do something, you know,

675
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: like that you get to go in the good direction

676
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: when you're done. But you know, I also would suspect

677
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: that a lot of the people who said they've seen

678
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: a demon like I would be dying to know the

679
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: percentage of them that were like talking about their like

680
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: ex spouse, you know what I mean. I'll show you

681
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: a Facebook you know, like a bitch live on third God. Yeah,

682
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: I I do think these terms right there so vast

683
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: when you when you really break them down, a demon,

684
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: a ghost, whatever it is that it it has the

685
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: potential for me to just apply it as I see fit,

686
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: or or to put it on someone or something that

687
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: may not in fact be that, but in my life,

688
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: in my very subjective experience, they represented something frustrating or

689
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: sad or evil as it were enough that I was like,

690
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: that thing is ungodly, that thing is is undead or

691
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: whatever it is that that sort of motivates you calling

692
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 1: someone a demon or something demonic. Yeah, I definitely think

693
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's going to make the distinction between dead

694
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: and evil. Yeah, everything that's dead is not even that

695
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: kind of the bad guy because you're you know, you're dead.

696
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: But it's something you said earlier, Like there are so

697
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: many movies like even Casper, you know, like the dad

698
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: wants to be still here and so everything that they're

699
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: doing is motivated by that. But like as I would

700
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: imagine it, and the dead are aware of their circumstances

701
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: and that they are not you know, up for renewal.

702
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: Like that's some movie stuff, you know, where it's like, well,

703
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: if you do this, then the third you can go

704
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: back and and and be alive again. So like they're

705
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: not trying to come back, they're not trying to take

706
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: over your body, they're not trying to take over your life,

707
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: you know, because they can't. Yeah, we've had this conversation

708
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: a few times on the podcasts regarding like aliens, right,

709
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: that there's like this weird instinct on the part of

710
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: human beings to presume that aliens have human motivations, right,

711
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: And it's the same I think applies for for spirits.

712
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: There's no reason that a spirit that has made it

713
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: past this mortal plane to show back up and be

714
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: like still desiring fucking sneakers and Bodega sandwiches or whatever

715
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: it is, Like, Oh, I've seen the other side. Now,

716
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: I want to go to the d m V. I

717
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: know all the mystery of the universe. I want to

718
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: get on the train sitting next to somebody who's no,

719
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: they got better shipped to do I think, I hope.

720
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: And if they don't, God damn, that's sad. That. Uh,

721
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: that's that's where we stopped. That's the case. Let me

722
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: come back then, Yeah, I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna

723
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: come back cool as funck. If this is as good

724
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: as it is. Uh, I think I'll have it all

725
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: figured out once I die. So the other thing that

726
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: I think actually might be very helpful in our conversation

727
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: around like the ancestors and spirituality is I wanted to

728
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: the question that sort of kept popping up because there

729
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: were all these statistics about who believes in ghosts. Republicans

730
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: apparently believe much more commonly than Democrats, women tend to believe.

731
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: In fact, four year to women with four year degrees

732
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: are sort of like the the biggest advocates of ghosts existing,

733
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: I guess, in the country. But then education, in almost

734
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: an opposite direction, says that the more educated you are,

735
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: you tend to believe less. Right, there's all these statistics,

736
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: but the question that kept popping up in my head

737
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: is why do we believe in ghosts in the first place,

738
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: Like what is the motivation behind that? And one of

739
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: the main things that seem to keep popping up was

740
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: this idea that it is the human mind trying to

741
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: make sense of things that we can't explain. That like

742
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of ship in the universe that that

743
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to us, and the best thing we

744
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: can do is try to add logic to the unexplained,

745
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: and sometimes the easiest way to do that is to

746
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: call it a spirit or a ghost or an ancestor

747
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Absolutely, I mean, so much of what

748
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: we say and think is us trying to make sense

749
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: of our circumstances in the world around us, you know.

750
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: And again like especially because the way you know, the

751
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: bad goes through the demon idea is used, I think

752
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: looking for excuses to explain things as opposed to really

753
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: get into the core of what happened and and and

754
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: is what something that a lot of people are just

755
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: prone to do. And this again not disparaging the presence

756
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: of spirits, but I think that the reasons that people

757
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: believe in spirits and and goes, they're not always connected

758
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: to what I believe, you know, continual spirit presence. To

759
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: be right, that we all sort of find our own motivations,

760
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: good and bad for our belief and some of those

761
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: motivations are just uh, making patterns, and some of them

762
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,479
Speaker 1: are like I am seeking a way to to sort

763
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: of like feel good and feel present in the world.

764
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: And some of that comes through talking to these ancestors.

765
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: So one of the things that that they talked about

766
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: in one of the articles I read is this idea

767
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: of creating logical patterns. Right, Like, there's this this term

768
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: that they used, uh paranoia paranno leia. Is that what

769
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: how you say it? I don't know. I'm not to

770
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: learn mid Man, but it basically explains that, like the

771
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: human brain has this tendency when we see blurred images

772
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: or when we hear like weird muffled sounds, to want

773
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: to add human words or images to that to make

774
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: sense of it. So it sort of explains like why

775
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: when we when they have those haunted house shows, right

776
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: and they walk through the haunted house and you hear

777
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: a weird sound and they go, do that's that ghost?

778
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: Just say suck my dick, and then you they play

779
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: it back and you're like, you did say it's like

780
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: my dick. It's because of how easily suggestible our brains

781
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: are when it comes to creating those those rhythms and

782
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: patterns when it comes to these sounds. Yeah, it made

783
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: me feel like, in a way, the suggestion of this

784
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: existence doesn't it doesn't eliminate the possibility of these sounds

785
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: coming from a source that we didn't expect them to,

786
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: but it does tell you that we decide what we

787
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: can receive from it. If that makes sense that, like,

788
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: if somebody decides to tell me that the ghost is

789
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: mad at me, I will interpret the ghost as being

790
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: mad at me. Whereas if I just listened to the

791
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: sound on my own, maybe I could hear something more

792
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 1: peaceful or friendly inside of that ghost noise. Hell yeah.

793
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: So the other thing that I thought was really interesting

794
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: and some of this research was like the idea of

795
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,479
Speaker 1: people summoning spirits, and I think this connects a little

796
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: bit to what you were talking about in terms of

797
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: summoning spirits as a means of coping with trauma, especially

798
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: like the pain of losing a loved one, And you

799
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: sort of talked about that earlier, with like people writing

800
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: messages on like Instagram, Facebook, whatever, saying like we miss you,

801
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: We've been thinking about you, remember when this happened. All

802
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: of that, and that being while we see that's a

803
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: public connection that we're seeing, they suggest that some of

804
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: the reasons that people claim to see a ghost in

805
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: their home is sort of a more physical I guess

806
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: outpouring of that exact same feeling. That makes sense, you know,

807
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: and again back to the idea of us trying to

808
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: cope with the set of circumstances around us, it would

809
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: make sense that as a response to trauma, you know,

810
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: the way that we're engaging with that idea is oftentimes

811
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: one that's designed to bring us comfort. Yeah, and interesting

812
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: sort of in a nice way. In terms of the

813
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: percentage of people who who claim to see ghosts of

814
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: them and this surprised me. Percent of the people who

815
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: said that they had a ghostly encounter said that that

816
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: encounter had at least one upside to it, such as

817
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: like a sense of connecting to others, So like they're

818
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: seeing more often than not, the people who are seeing

819
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: ghosts are not having a bad time afterwards. Yeah, you

820
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: know what, I had been curious. I wonder how many

821
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: of those like I saw a ghost are literally like

822
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: I saw something that looked like a ghost or a figure,

823
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: or you know, like I stumbled across a copy of

824
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: my father's high school yearbook in the middle of the

825
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: living room, you know what I mean, and it felt

826
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: like he was there some ship, meaning that like you

827
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: didn't actually see your father, but it was just you

828
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: saw this picture and you had a feeling as if

829
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: your father was there because of like the feelings that

830
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: came up and looking through the book something like that,

831
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: or like, you know, maybe feeling like a picture fell

832
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: off the wall and it was your grandmother trying to

833
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: tell you something. You know, like that kind of like encounter.

834
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: I wonder how many of those would be counted him

835
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: on the like you know, I saw a ghost moments. Yeah,

836
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I think again. It sort of goes nicely

837
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: back to that idea of like patterns, right that, like

838
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: if if I am having an emotional day, or if

839
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: I am thinking about a person that I'm missing, and

840
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: then something big enough happens around me or small enough,

841
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: and that might be enough for me to feel like

842
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: that was them trying to communicate to me, when in fact,

843
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's them trying to communicate to me,

844
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: But the communication it maybe doesn't matter. Maybe it's just

845
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: the feeling that it brings it legitimacy. Yeah, it's kind

846
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: of nice in that way where this doesn't have to

847
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: be scary or traumatic if you don't want it to be,

848
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: and if you do, I don't know, you're a sick fuck.

849
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: Enjoy yourself. There's also a fair amount of evidence, it

850
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: seems like, of people blaming ghosts, and I'm curious to

851
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on this. There are lots of people

852
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: who claim that that some of these ghost sightings might

853
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 1: be connected to mental illness or at least schizophrenia, unchecked

854
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: sleep paralysis, over use of l s D are all

855
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: things that they're saying essentially can lead a person to

856
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 1: feel like they're having a paranormal experience when in fact

857
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: is it's just all in their head. People hallucinate. But

858
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: does that make it real? Does that make it less? Like?

859
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: Where where do you think that that that falls in

860
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: terms of its legitimacy on the hallucination scale? Like you know,

861
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the legitimacy will be for them,

862
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: like to what ability are they able to reckon or

863
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: or to parts like I thought I saw something because

864
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: I had a bad trip, you know, or because I

865
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: was off my meds versus No, I know for a

866
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: fact that I had this encounter. And that's not to

867
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: say the people that are you know, dealing with the

868
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: psychological emergency or drug dependency can't have a legitimate encounter too.

869
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,720
Speaker 1: But you know, I think we definitely would be careful

870
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: between you know, lining up somebody maybe having a passing moment,

871
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: what a spirit and somebody you know, thinking that the

872
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: wall is talking to them because they're on LSB. Okay,

873
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: So so if I'm understanding you correctly, then it that

874
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: would mean that if it feels real to me, it

875
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: is real, and the justification for that afterwards doesn't that's

876
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: a a thing that that needs to be parsed out personally.

877
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: It isn't necessarily something for us to decide for them,

878
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 1: not that it's real, but that it's a valid experience

879
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: that you had. You know, like during this period of time,

880
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: you felt like the toaster was talking to you, So

881
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: like what kind of lasting impact does that have on you?

882
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: Do you understand now that it didn't really talk to you?

883
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: Do you? Are you able to use this toaster anymore?

884
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: Is it like off limits? Now? We gotta get at

885
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: the house, you know. I think it's a thing to

886
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: be dealt with as opposed to lack a truth to

887
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: be accepted. I got you. Yeah, Okay, there's a subjective

888
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: nature to this, but that doesn't mean that you didn't

889
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 1: objectively have an experience. The experience is real, even if

890
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: the the byproduct of that experience is something that we should, uh,

891
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: we should have more conversations about if nothing else that's fair.

892
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: There is also sort of like what they call paranormal

893
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: uh side effects that happened in our brain. Like, for example,

894
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: there was a scientist. This this dude who basically thought

895
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: that he like, while working really late at night in

896
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: a lab, thought that he could hear a ghost or

897
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: see a ghost moving next to him. And he was

898
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: a super skeptic, hated the idea of of sort of

899
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: paranormal activity being a real thing, and he decided to

900
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: sort of like try to dig through to see if

901
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: he can make sense of of what this thing was,

902
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: and ended up finding out that there was a fan

903
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,439
Speaker 1: nearby him that was basically spinning out of frequency something

904
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: they called the fear frequency, which was like eighteen point

905
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: nine hurts, that was spinning at such a slow pattern

906
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: he couldn't pick it up. The human ear isn't able

907
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: to pick up stuff below twenty hurts, but it was

908
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: enough for our brain to start to try to make

909
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: sense of things, thus creating the illusion of ghostly sounds

910
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: and ghostly movement. And so he says that that maybe

911
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: the justification for a lot of our ghostly experiences is

912
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: the stuff around us moving in a way or or

913
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: making noises in a way that aren't perceptible to our

914
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: human ears and eyes, but are in fact happening in

915
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: the real world independent of any spiritual bodies. He did

916
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: a lot of research. I just read stuff and then

917
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: repeat it back. I don't know. Do you think that

918
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: the fear of frequency in any way bumps against any

919
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 1: of your your beliefs, the stuff that you've been practicing

920
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: with your your altar and scestral sort of like prayers

921
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: and whatnot. I don't think so, just because fear is

922
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: just completely devoid, like just not present in that relationship.

923
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: Like I just don't have any fear around the practice

924
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: I got you. So it's it doesn't matter, because I

925
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: think the fear frequency, even the language around it, does

926
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: suggest that ghosts or whatever we're seeing hearing blah blah

927
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: blah is scary, and to your point, we shouldn't be

928
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 1: or you're not treating this as a scary thing, So

929
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter. That's fair. Okay, this is the

930
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: last thing that I'll bring up to you before we

931
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: go to break. The one thing that's sort of like

932
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: really started to ring out to me in terms of

933
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: this conversation around like all of these these illusions of

934
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: the mind, be it be a mental illness to be

935
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: at the fear frequency. All of these things are the

936
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: the idea that they are in some ways terms and

937
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: and sort of like connotations I guess that are created

938
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: by white people, that white people sort of like create

939
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: the language and logic around these things. And so our

940
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: understanding of ghosts, and I think you've spoken to this

941
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: pretty well so far, it seems like our understanding of

942
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: ghosts is largely limited to what white people want us

943
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: to understand ghosts to be in a lot of ways.

944
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: That is, so long as like the media and the

945
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: things that we read are connected to fear and to

946
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: sort of like ghosts being people in in fucking you know,

947
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: colonial outfits, then we are always going to understand them

948
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: as like this scary, dangerous thing and not, as you said,

949
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: something a little more peaceful or helpful in your life.

950
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: Yes physically, yes, Like I don't really even have much

951
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: asked that I just said, like, there's been I think

952
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: in recent years of movement of people, you know, I

953
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: say young people in the broadest sense, because I'm still

954
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: including myself, but you know, millennials on down that have

955
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: been exploring spirituality and who have been tapping into some

956
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: of the things that people came before us did. And

957
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think that I will continue to hear

958
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: more about folks doing that, you know, and you'll see

959
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: more of an influence of this sort of thinking in

960
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 1: pop culture with black folks here and there, and hopefully

961
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: that'll influence, um, you know, a reconsideration of what white

962
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: folks have told us about ghosts and about our dead. Yeah,

963
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: we can we can reconsider the white stories. We can

964
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: make this a new if we if we all built

965
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: altars in our in our homes. Is it like in

966
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: the front of your house or is this like in

967
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: a private, quieter spot. It's in my living room. There's

968
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: a divider, a role, Irish screens, so it's like it's

969
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: kind of obscure, you know. And sometimes if I'm gonna

970
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: have people in the house, I don't really want, you know,

971
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: all eyes on my stuff. I can close it up.

972
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, So you don't have to make this a

973
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 1: public experience. But we can all build altars and and

974
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 1: and privately start to break some of these, uh, these

975
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: white teachings as it were. Okay, we're gonna take one

976
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 1: more break. We'll be back with more to me, a

977
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: little mill and more. My mama told me, we need

978
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: a back. Yeah, We're back here with more, Jamille, little more.

979
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: My mama told me, we're still talking about ghosts, the

980
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 1: ancestral plane and breaking white habits. I guess breaking our

981
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: are white beliefs out in the world. Let's play a

982
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: quick game, and we we have one last game that

983
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: we love to play on the podcast. This is a

984
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 1: new game. It's a brand new game that I cooked

985
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: up special for this episode. It's called I'm Dreaming of

986
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: a White Spirit. I'm Dreaming of a White Spirit. It's

987
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: a it's a fun game where Jamila, I am going

988
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 1: to introduce to you a few stories of white celebrities

989
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: because I tried to look up black celebrities who said

990
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 1: that they saw ghosts, and truly, there were very few

991
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: who would even talk about it. I think Rihanna at

992
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 1: one point had like a quote where she was like,

993
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: I don't eat at that restaurant no more. I get

994
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 1: eerie vibes there. But like that was kind of the

995
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: extent of it. So there aren't a lot of like

996
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: ghost stories from famous black people. But well, yeah, you

997
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: probably can't afford to to talk to in the media

998
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: about whatever you're you're experiencing in your home. But there

999
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: are lots of white celebrities who are like bugging I'll

1000
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: tell you about it. So I just would love to

1001
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: read you some of these stories and get your thoughts

1002
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: on them. Hell yeah, So let's let's start with a

1003
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: fun one. This is a nice one. Let's start with

1004
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: my boy, Matthew McConaughey. Matthew McConaughey. In two thousand nine,

1005
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: he shared a story that his his home was haunted

1006
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: by his spirit name Madame Blue. He says, I was

1007
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: not even under the influence, and she was there. She

1008
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: wasn't that happy. It didn't seem like she was going

1009
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: to be much fun to hang around or have in

1010
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: my house. So I went ahead and stood my ground.

1011
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: I opened the door, and I said, you can move

1012
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: around all you want, but I'm not going anywhere. For weeks,

1013
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: everyone that came to the house said the same thing,

1014
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: that someone's down the hall. There's somebody down in that hall.

1015
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: He says that Madam Blue basically eventually stopped messing with

1016
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 1: him and eventually let him and his guests, uh, just

1017
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed their home. Your thoughts. Just like a white man said,

1018
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: yell at the ghost. That's his first thought. I'm gonna

1019
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: yell at it. I'm gonna tell her to stop I

1020
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: moved into her house. She been here, who knows how

1021
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: long she could have been This could have been her land,

1022
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: and here you come. I'm a yell let her. If

1023
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: her name is Madame Blue, she's been there a long time,

1024
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: she's been there. Well, she's definitely that's her territory. And

1025
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: Matthew mcconaugheytes said no, I'm not leaving. And apparently Madame

1026
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: Blue gave up. Maybe she realized he was a decent

1027
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: enough dude minus the yelling at her part. Oh that

1028
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: she was like, I don't know, he's got his shirt off.

1029
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: He seems like he might have just legitimately gotten on

1030
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: her nerves. Like he seems like he'd be pretty chatty

1031
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: when he smokes. And I could see like Madame Blue

1032
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: being like, okay, well nothing's Matthew McConaughey has trapped you

1033
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: in a corner vibes, you know what I mean. And

1034
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: as a ghost, you don't want to be trapped in

1035
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: a corner. You're already you've got enough going on. We

1036
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: got enough going on. So okay, here's a here's another

1037
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: fun one. Jenna bush Hagar and you know the daughter

1038
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: of George bush Uh. She claims that during her time

1039
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: in the White House that she had a number of

1040
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: mysterious spirits sort of interact with her. She said, I

1041
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: heard ghosts. I was asleep. There was a fireplace in

1042
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: my room, and all of a sudden, I heard nineteen

1043
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: twenties music coming out. I could feel it. I freaked

1044
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: out and ran into my sister with room. She was like,

1045
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: please go back to sleep. This is ridiculous. Could have

1046
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: been some of those slaves have built the White House.

1047
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: Could have been some of them dad iraq Eas that

1048
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: were like slaughtered because of her daddy's stupid war. Some

1049
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: of the US soldiers that were killed because of her

1050
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: daddy's stupid war. I'm sure there were a lot of

1051
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: spirits that are displeased with the Bush family. Yeah, And

1052
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: it makes me wonder how many of these these unhappy

1053
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: spirits are more in your brain that like, you know

1054
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: what your daddy did, and maybe that's just living in

1055
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: in your spirit. You are articulating it in a in

1056
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: an odd way around your heart to look at it.

1057
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: I think it's a very good way to look at it. Okay,

1058
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: here's here's another one. We'll do two more. This is

1059
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: Demi Lovado. Demi Lovado. They said that they were haunted

1060
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: by a bad spirit. Not by a bad spirit, excuse me,

1061
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 1: but by a little girl. I think her name is Emily.

1062
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: I've been at had a medium come over, and and

1063
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: ghost hunters, and they both told me the same name, Emily.

1064
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: There were so many times that I saw her when

1065
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: I was growing up. Lovado wrote, I believe that everyone

1066
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 1: can tune into that part of their mind. I think

1067
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: I have a really strong connection to the afterlife. When

1068
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: I walk into the room I can tell if something

1069
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: has happened there or not, or if a hotel is haunted. Okay,

1070
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: you think you think Demi Lovado is connected like you? Now?

1071
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: I hope they're good enough to call two sets of

1072
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: ghostbusters that like don't communicate with each other like Okay,

1073
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: bat the name is Emily, you know what I mean? Like,

1074
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: but it's two different entities and dide I know each other,

1075
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: have no prior relationship. Both came up with the name Emily.

1076
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard not to think there's something to that.

1077
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Okay. Last one, my boy, Keanu Reeves said

1078
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: that he's he's had ghostly experiences. Reeves claims that he

1079
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,439
Speaker 1: saw a ghost as a child living in New York City.

1080
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: I'm probably like six seven years old. He said, we'd

1081
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: come from Australia and nanny in the bedroom. My sister

1082
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: is asleep, she's sitting over there. I'm hanging out. There

1083
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: was a doorway and all of a sudden, this jacket

1084
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: comes waving through the door, this empty jacket. There's nobody,

1085
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: there's no legs, it's just there and then it disappears.

1086
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: He explains, he said, I was a little kid and

1087
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: I thought, okay, that's interesting. And I looked over at

1088
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 1: the nanny and she was making this terrified face and

1089
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow, so that was real. It's possible.

1090
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: You've got enough money to have a nanny. You probably

1091
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: your family probably did some bad stuff. So maybe it's

1092
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: the same as like the bushes, just on a smaller level.

1093
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: You know, there might be there's bodies buried in the repace.

1094
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: So we're just in Australia with our nanny, Like, excuse me,

1095
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: Sarkian I did, like, my favorite part of this is

1096
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 1: that there he doesn't like go like And then I

1097
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: talked to the nanny and we figured it out together.

1098
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,479
Speaker 1: He's just like, oh yeah, she's Serpen so it must

1099
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: have been real and then went to sleep like, yeah,

1100
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 1: you don't want to help her feel better, Big beast

1101
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,479
Speaker 1: still be sitting right in that very spot. That would

1102
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: be the mystery of my life that I had to

1103
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: figure out. Dog, If a moving jacket seems so much

1104
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: scarier than if it's a person, I can let's talk,

1105
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: we can work this out. But if it's just a jacket, God,

1106
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm sucked up forever. That's that's about a scary can get. Yeah.

1107
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: All right, well, Jamila, I think we did it. I

1108
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: think I think we nailed this episode. Thank you for

1109
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: doing this. Could you tell the people at home where

1110
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,040
Speaker 1: they could find you and what cool ship you of

1111
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: going on? Yeah? You can find me at Jamila Lemiu

1112
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: dot com to learn more about my work. Um, I'm

1113
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: one social media at Jamie Lemiu. Depending on where this airs,

1114
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: I have a story coming out that I'm like terrified of.

1115
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: People may talk about it. I don't know when you're

1116
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: gonna air this, so I can't say what it. We'll

1117
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: keep up with me on social media. I'm a freelance writer.

1118
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: I have I've done stuff for The Arly Times and

1119
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: Playboy and The Cut, and I've got a big story

1120
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: coming up, and like I'm waiting for the editor to

1121
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: hit me with like the okay, here's when I dropped.

1122
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: So it's like I can't even really promote it, but

1123
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: like you might remember that you heard me on this

1124
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: podcast when you see the story. It might be a

1125
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: little bit of a thing. All right, Well, keep your

1126
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: keep your eyes and ears peeled for that big story

1127
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: and follow Jamila on on all of her ship and

1128
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: uh as always, you can follow me at like Saint

1129
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 1: Kerman and please subscribe, do whatever nonsense you're meant to

1130
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: do the podcast to make people care about them and yeah, okay,

1131
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: we did it by because I've been growing babies my

1132
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: crop chips in your pans Ocola bears are racist. He

1133
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: also players hosting the money versions de many Turkey stuff.

1134
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: I can't tell me nothing,