1
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,960
Speaker 1: It's that time time time, time, Luck and load.

2
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,760
Speaker 2: The Michael Verry Show is.

3
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 3: On the air.

4
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,280
Speaker 2: Clifton Duncan is our guest.

5
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,080
Speaker 4: He is doing a new one man show on the

6
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 4: Great Thomas Soule. When I asked the question, it was

7
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,320
Speaker 4: because I'm genuinely thinking about how I would do it

8
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 4: if I were doing that. I don't have the acting

9
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,319
Speaker 4: skill you do. But I research people. I study them.

10
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 4: I say, I take them apart and put them back together.

11
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 4: I'm fascinated by by not just what people have to say,

12
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,200
Speaker 4: especially someone like Soul who has so much to say.

13
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 2: But how they arrived at that.

14
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,360
Speaker 4: You know, his experience with Milton Friedman and having been

15
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,240
Speaker 4: in Friedman's class at the University of Chicago, and he says,

16
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 4: but I left the class and I was still a liberal.

17
00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 4: And he goes to work for the Labor Department, and

18
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 4: then he realizes that the Labor Department does not care

19
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 4: about black people or employees, both of whom they claim

20
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,720
Speaker 4: to and that when he pointed out that the data

21
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 4: was actually harmful to these people from what they were recommending,

22
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,919
Speaker 4: that they said that doesn't matter. And that was the moment,

23
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,839
Speaker 4: that was his aha moment, that was his his eureka,

24
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 4: oh my goodness, these people don't believe anything they're saying,

25
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 4: and it it transformed him and he went on to

26
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 4: be the man he is today. You know, I think

27
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 4: that's just absolutely fascinating. And that tells you this man

28
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,360
Speaker 4: wasn't born into this, right. I mean, I've made a

29
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,120
Speaker 4: transformation in my life from from what I think and

30
00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 4: and where I am, and most of us have, and

31
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 4: in his I think that will I can. Sorry, I'm

32
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 4: thinking and planning this, this project for you. I'm writing

33
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 4: it in my head Clifton right now as we talk.

34
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,640
Speaker 4: Uh and and I'm just imagining you have such a

35
00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 4: great opportunity to tell that as just that is that

36
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,240
Speaker 4: is fantastic. So what does it look like? I mean,

37
00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 4: will this be a will you go on tour? Because

38
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 4: if you do, we're coordinating Houston for you and all

39
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,520
Speaker 4: of our markets for that matter. But what do you

40
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 4: envision this looking like?

41
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,360
Speaker 5: Well, right now, the plan is to spend the next

42
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,320
Speaker 5: six months developing, you know, researching and developing a first draft.

43
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 5: I've got a great line producer as well as some

44
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,359
Speaker 5: great trusted friends who are New York sharp in terms

45
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,080
Speaker 5: of you know, their ability to discern what's good and

46
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,079
Speaker 5: what is not. So that's the first step, but then

47
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,240
Speaker 5: as time goes on, what I want to do. It's

48
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,160
Speaker 5: sort of like what a stand up comedian does, right.

49
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 5: They go around and they do all types of venues

50
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,600
Speaker 5: to test out their material, because you don't know what

51
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 5: works until you do it in front of an audience.

52
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,920
Speaker 5: The audience is the one who teaches you how to

53
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 5: do the show right. What you know, what moments are working,

54
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 5: what moments are clicking. When are they on the edge

55
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 5: of their seats, When are they listening? When are they

56
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 5: sort of unwrapping candies and coughing and wrestling through their programs?

57
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 5: When are they laughing? When are they you know, silent?

58
00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 5: You know, are they gasping anywhere? And so you know,

59
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 5: I mean it's a piece of live theater and one

60
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 5: of the one of the great things about theater. And

61
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 5: you touched on this in your intro is you know,

62
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,799
Speaker 5: it's just it's part of You're in this experience. You're

63
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 5: in the room with other people, other human beings, sharing

64
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 5: the same air, the same molecules, the same sound way,

65
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,800
Speaker 5: it's the same space and experiencing something together. And that's

66
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,919
Speaker 5: the magic of theater that you have, you have the

67
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 5: the relationship between the actor and the audience that you

68
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 5: don't get when you're doing TV and film. And so

69
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 5: that's really a big prospect for me, is that, you know,

70
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 5: just touring around and seeing how people respond and what

71
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 5: they respond to. And I always enjoy talking to people

72
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,440
Speaker 5: after shows as well to see like what worked for

73
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 5: them and what didn't, and also seeing the country but

74
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 5: would also be nice. But then ultimately the goal is

75
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 5: to upload the show on the internet so that the

76
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,920
Speaker 5: whole world can see it. And but that's that's only

77
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 5: after it's been you know, honed and tightened and and

78
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 5: performed before you know, a bunch of audiences, which is

79
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 5: again what comedians do before they film their own special.

80
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 5: So that's you know, it might be a grueling road process.

81
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 5: But there's already been a few people who have been like, yeah,

82
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 5: you know, come do it this.

83
00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,000
Speaker 4: I somehow think you're up for a Clifton. You fell

84
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 4: to the depths, didn't expect it, had no net. We're

85
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 4: waiting tables and wondering what had become of your life.

86
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 4: And and somehow since then, you you have had talk

87
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 4: about a guy having a resurgence. You've had a pretty

88
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,920
Speaker 4: darn good run yourself, and I think it's it's headed upward.

89
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,239
Speaker 4: And I think now you're in control of your career

90
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,360
Speaker 4: in a way that even though you were an accomplished

91
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,320
Speaker 4: actor you could you were always at the at the

92
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,279
Speaker 4: mercy of the casting agent. Now you're taking control of

93
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 4: your own career and the product you produce, and I

94
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,919
Speaker 4: think that's I think that's very exciting.

95
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,279
Speaker 2: I think that's very exciting.

96
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,960
Speaker 4: Have you given a thought Have you given thought to

97
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,880
Speaker 4: meeting Thomas Old, to conversations, to that process.

98
00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know you mentioned before. I mean, he

99
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 5: is notoriously elusive. We say so initially, I mean I

100
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 5: was so excited. I didn't really think about it because

101
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 5: I figured I'm never going to get a response from him.

102
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 5: But I know people who know him, they're trying to

103
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 5: get in touch with him, or to get us in touch,

104
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,480
Speaker 5: I should say, because you know, at the end of

105
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 5: the day, I was like, yeah, I'm so excited about it,

106
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,600
Speaker 5: the idea, but be kind of weird to do this

107
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 5: whole play without without talking to him and you know,

108
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 5: hearing what he has to say about it. So we're

109
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 5: trying to get in touch with him, as you know,

110
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 5: it's very, very difficult to do so, and I'm like,

111
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,920
Speaker 5: you know, the dude is almost one hundred years old,

112
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 5: so I kind of want to leave him alone and

113
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 5: so he can have you know, so he can sort

114
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 5: of you know, enjoy enjoy his time and not be

115
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 5: pestered by some you know, young gen X, old millennial

116
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 5: who wants to you know.

117
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 2: I guess talk about him.

118
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,600
Speaker 5: So but we're working on trying to get in touch

119
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,600
Speaker 5: with him. And you know, just even a phone call

120
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,040
Speaker 5: would be would be cool. The visit will be even better,

121
00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 5: but you know, we'll we'll see how that pans out.

122
00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,919
Speaker 4: The good news is there is a great body of

123
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 4: work out there, of interviews and I often quote examples

124
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,000
Speaker 4: he gives in the book Basic Economics. And I studied

125
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 4: economics in college. I took a number of courses and

126
00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 4: I've read my wife was in a PhD program when

127
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,159
Speaker 4: she switched to law from economics. Economics is something I

128
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,400
Speaker 4: read about a lot, is something I think about. It's

129
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 4: something I stay I try to stay on top of.

130
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 4: And yet he writes this book Basic Economics, which is

131
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,839
Speaker 4: kind of economics for people that didn't go to college.

132
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:29,720
Speaker 2: And it is so beautifully written.

133
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 4: Because of the simplicity, Thomas Soul doesn't feel the need

134
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 4: to be inaccessible to show that he's brilliant.

135
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 2: He does just the opposite. He makes the difficult understandable.

136
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:43,920
Speaker 4: And you know, I think Rush Limbo had a knack

137
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,840
Speaker 4: for doing that on the radio, but Soul does that

138
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 4: with very complicated concepts, and then he'll use a little

139
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 4: anecdote of you know, when he was traveling in India

140
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,840
Speaker 4: and this happened. That book Basic Economics is my favorite

141
00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,840
Speaker 4: of everything he did because of the accessibility and because

142
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 4: of the ability to democratize knowledge about simple scientific concepts

143
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 4: underpinning economics. And I think that that alone, if that

144
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 4: was all he ever did, would be amazing, and of

145
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,080
Speaker 4: course he did so much more well.

146
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 2: I totally agree.

147
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,160
Speaker 5: You know, I think Basic Economics should be required reading

148
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 5: for all high school students in the United States. We'd

149
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 5: have a way, way different country. And I mean, he

150
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 5: wrote it to be accessible, and I was like, dude,

151
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 5: if even a dummy like me can understand what he's saying,

152
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 5: you know, that is that is a That's a great

153
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 5: gift to be able to, like you said, break down

154
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 5: these complex issues and simplify them for the masses. I'm

155
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 5: also thinking of someone like the physicist Richard Feinman. Feynman

156
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 5: was also someone who really championed simplicity. But the thing

157
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 5: about it is that even in the arts as well

158
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 5: and the craft of acting, you know, simplicity, simplicity, simplicity

159
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 5: is always key. Be specific, be simple. You don't need

160
00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 5: a bunch of ornate you know, flowery language, or you

161
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 5: don't have to use a bunch of gestures or whatever.

162
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 5: Just get to what's simple and what's true. And that's

163
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 5: as true for I think Thomas Soul's work as it

164
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 5: is for acting as well.

165
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 2: So it's kind of funny.

166
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 5: Now that I'm saying it's out loud, but.

167
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 2: In a way that that approach to.

168
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 5: Make something, make something simple and accessible, and it was

169
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 5: probably a good ethos to follow for what does do

170
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 5: you want to Mary?

171
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 2: What do you want you want to meet?

172
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,040
Speaker 6: The Michael Barry Just to say the word and.

173
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 3: I'll throw a asshole around it down.

174
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:35,959
Speaker 4: Clifton Duncan, a celebrated, much respected stage actor, is our guest.

175
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,719
Speaker 4: He is doing a new one man show on the

176
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,280
Speaker 4: Great Thomas Soul and sharing some details about that with us.

177
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 4: When friends of mine from law school used to say,

178
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,360
Speaker 4: you know, Michael, you're better than that. You're talking about

179
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,680
Speaker 4: such simplistic things in such simplistic ways. I would respond,

180
00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,439
Speaker 4: and they never liked this. I would say, I sell

181
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,520
Speaker 4: big Max, not caviar, because it's the masses. And so

182
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,560
Speaker 4: many times we to distance ourselves in this ivory tower

183
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,440
Speaker 4: from real people by using language that is hard to

184
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 4: understand and therefore disconnects, when the point is the ideas

185
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 4: should be universal and they should be accessible. And I

186
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,439
Speaker 4: think that's that's one of the things that Soul does

187
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 4: so beautifully and so modest, because he does not attempt

188
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,240
Speaker 4: to hold himself out as if he's a pontificating professor,

189
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 4: but quite the opposite.

190
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 5: You know.

191
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,559
Speaker 4: He tells a story about he was teaching at I

192
00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 4: think it was Cornell.

193
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,520
Speaker 2: I think it was Cornell, and he was talking.

194
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 4: About how affirmative action had hurt the black students and

195
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 4: how he went to the admissions office and he found

196
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,680
Speaker 4: that the students who were struggling the most were students

197
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,520
Speaker 4: who were black and shouldn't have been admitted. And his

198
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 4: point was these students were going to fail out of

199
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 4: Cornell and fell out of life because of what would

200
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,640
Speaker 4: happen when that student should have gone to Indiana or

201
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 4: Indiana State and they would have been an a student

202
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 4: and they could have built along the way. It's like

203
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,800
Speaker 4: throwing a kid from high school into the pro into

204
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 4: the and they're not ready for that, and you think

205
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 4: you're helping them, but you're not.

206
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,200
Speaker 2: Clifton Duncan is our guest.

207
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,800
Speaker 4: He's working on a project called Soul, a solo play

208
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 4: about an American genius. Now, I noticed recently you did

209
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 4: a GoFundMe and your goal was to raise ten thousand

210
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 4: dollars and in a matter of hours you had raised

211
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,680
Speaker 4: seventy two thousand dollars with six hundred and twenty eight backers.

212
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 4: It is clear to me that there is an audience

213
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 4: for what you're doing, and more importantly, there are a

214
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 4: lot of people out here like our show that support

215
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 4: what you're doing.

216
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 2: That's got to be it's got to be humbling and gratifying.

217
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 5: It definitely is, and on some level it's a bit daunting,

218
00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,600
Speaker 5: but after remind myself that people are very excited and

219
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,040
Speaker 5: they want to they want to see me succeed, which

220
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,319
Speaker 5: is great. But I think the biggest story about that

221
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 5: is that right now, the American theater industry is skill

222
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 5: reeling from its self inflicted wounds from the pandemic years.

223
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 5: And I mean, as one of the only people who

224
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,080
Speaker 5: was saying publicly like, we shouldn't we shouldn't be doing this,

225
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,400
Speaker 5: this is not the right way to go, going to

226
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,320
Speaker 5: destroy the industry, and they're as of now, I mean,

227
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,400
Speaker 5: Broadway still has not recovered from from their closures, their

228
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,640
Speaker 5: theaters around the country which are truncating their seasons or

229
00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:12,680
Speaker 5: they're closing outright.

230
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,360
Speaker 2: And you know, the.

231
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,760
Speaker 5: Leaders within the theater industry are just are talking about

232
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,079
Speaker 5: how there's just you know, how it's so expensive to

233
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,439
Speaker 5: produce shows, and you know, twenty percent of the audience

234
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,319
Speaker 5: hasn't even come back, and donors are drying up in

235
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,599
Speaker 5: the adiadiada. And I'm this one guy and within the

236
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 5: span of a couple of weeks, I raised almost one

237
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars. So on one hand, it's a bit

238
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,560
Speaker 5: of I take a little bit of joy in the

239
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 5: fact that these people who decided that I should not

240
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 5: be allowed to work for making me a very logical

241
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,920
Speaker 5: medical decision for myself are sitting there wondering what the

242
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 5: heck are we going to do how we're going to?

243
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,240
Speaker 5: You know, like I hear from my friends who are

244
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,600
Speaker 5: still in the game in New York who are saying,

245
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 5: you know, own the stars are making money now, like

246
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 5: you know, the regular sort of jobbing journeymen, actors who

247
00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:59,719
Speaker 5: they make their living but you know they have to

248
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,680
Speaker 5: hust to do it. That there's just nowhere near as

249
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,000
Speaker 5: much money anymore. At the same time, what's also great

250
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 5: is that it indicates to me what I felt for

251
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 5: a long time, is that there is a huge, huge

252
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,080
Speaker 5: audience outside of these deep blue metros who think they're

253
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 5: so much better than everybody else and think they're so

254
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,560
Speaker 5: much more sophisticated than everybody else.

255
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 2: Like, no, you are on to something, right there, brother,

256
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:22,920
Speaker 2: keep going.

257
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well you know people, but people want

258
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 5: to see great arts and they don't want to you know,

259
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,080
Speaker 5: made by people that don't hate them. And there's this idea,

260
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,160
Speaker 5: you know, and I spent so much time around these people,

261
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 5: but they think everyone in Red America or flyover country,

262
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 5: so to speak, is some redneck groub or whatever they like.

263
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 5: They don't get it. They just don't get it. And

264
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,760
Speaker 5: to me, I think the bigger story, it's bigger than myself,

265
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,800
Speaker 5: is that there are people out there. I mean, there

266
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,559
Speaker 5: are so many like sort of small donors to the

267
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 5: project who want to see succeed or I get messages

268
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,760
Speaker 5: from people who say, like, I don't really have anything

269
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 5: to give, but I'm like yo, you know, like great

270
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 5: comments and good vibes are also accepted as means of support.

271
00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:03,400
Speaker 5: So there's a huge, untapped, massive people who are who

272
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,120
Speaker 5: want to come and give their you know, and trade

273
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,679
Speaker 5: their money and their time for a great experience at

274
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 5: the theatre in the arts. And that's that's really the

275
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,720
Speaker 5: big story for me because I think more I suppose

276
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,800
Speaker 5: I call the more conservative leaning, more right leaning, you

277
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,599
Speaker 5: know whatever. One of my frustrations has been that, you know,

278
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,120
Speaker 5: there hasn't been that much support for the for the arts,

279
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,440
Speaker 5: but why would they write you know what I mean.

280
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 5: They've been so reviled by people who are making so

281
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 5: much of the culture. So it's just it's really gratifying,

282
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 5: you know, on multiple levels, but especially because it's it's

283
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,160
Speaker 5: money coming from people that, you know, aren't they They

284
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,199
Speaker 5: have been pushed out, you know what I mean, from

285
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,360
Speaker 5: from the industry, and so that that's The bigger story

286
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 5: there is that there is a there is a a

287
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 5: hunger for for arts and for culture and for entertainment,

288
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 5: and that is the that's really gratifying for me, because

289
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 5: I'm like, dude, this is it, this is it right here.

290
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 5: There's way, way, way, way more people who outside of

291
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 5: New York and LA and trying to doing work that

292
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 5: appeals to those people, to me, seems like a much, much,

293
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 5: a much better idea than catering to the sliver of

294
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 5: people who adhere to these really sort of extreme left

295
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 5: wing views which just keep getting more and more insane.

296
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,680
Speaker 4: You Clifton Duncan is our guests, a great stage actor,

297
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 4: was in Broadway. He refused to bend the knee during

298
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 4: COVID and found himself out of a career, in an identity,

299
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 4: and out of great artistic talent and a whole lot

300
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 4: of grit. He is back and he's going to be

301
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,560
Speaker 4: bigger than ever. He's got a lot going on. We're

302
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,040
Speaker 4: going to get to that in just a moment, but

303
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,800
Speaker 4: we wanted to talk to him about his new project,

304
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 4: a one man show about Thomas Soul.

305
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 2: You wrote, Clifton.

306
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,600
Speaker 4: Legendary producer Rick Rubin is open about the anxiety he

307
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 4: feels at the start of a new project. You just

308
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,800
Speaker 4: don't know what the damn thing's going to be. That's daunting.

309
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 4: So now what's next? And then you tell about as

310
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 4: you read it, becoming Thomas Soul? Do you intend to

311
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 4: wear his black horn rim glasses? And we talked about

312
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 4: his afro earlier. Do you intend to do you intend

313
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 4: to appear to look like Thomas Soul?

314
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,560
Speaker 5: Well, of course, you know, and someone actually on that

315
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,880
Speaker 5: post is on my substack, the State of the Arts,

316
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 5: and they posted about his glasses specifically, and he said,

317
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 5: you know, you could use as a form of a mask.

318
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,240
Speaker 5: So in theater and acting, you know, you can sometimes

319
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 5: use maskwork to find different shades of a character or

320
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 5: different different modes of expression. And to me, the glasses

321
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,560
Speaker 5: they're so iconic, you know, along with the frow, that

322
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 5: that's one of those things where you have to.

323
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 2: Incorporate it and do it.

324
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 5: And I'm curious as to how the glasses would transform it.

325
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,600
Speaker 5: I sort of see this moment in the show where

326
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,480
Speaker 5: the dawning of the glasses becomes a pivotal kind of

327
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 5: moment that people kind of know because people know him

328
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,440
Speaker 5: because of you know these glasses well, and.

329
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 4: That sort of rumpled professor look he has, right, he's

330
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 4: not in any way stylish's.

331
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 2: He's sort of like the professor in the paper Chase's.

332
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 4: He's got kind of the hound's tooth uh off colored jacket,

333
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 4: but he always has to tie and he always has

334
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 4: the dress. But he's not he's not stylish per SE's.

335
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 4: He's sort of conservatively dressed, but it's very distinctive.

336
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 2: You can.

337
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,320
Speaker 4: You know, I watch I watch everything on him on YouTube,

338
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 4: and when I'm flipping around because I've watched so much,

339
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 4: the algorithm, you know, puts more in my cueue to watch,

340
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 4: and I can always spot him, you know, you can

341
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 4: just glance at him. You can see that it's him.

342
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 4: It is interesting because the glasses, I think probably will

343
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 4: transform you because that's so unlike your look.

344
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know I have I have.

345
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 5: I'mly near sighted, so I have some glasses that I wear,

346
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,840
Speaker 5: but they're they're not They're nowhere on a level of

347
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 5: of the of the soul glass with.

348
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 2: The soul gods. I don't care if somebody deces fakes shoe.

349
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 2: You can't shoot him, Michael.

350
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:49,400
Speaker 7: It's been book simply the decency of the life available

351
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 7: to people. They weren't black, The families were intact, and

352
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 7: schools worked, and the neighborhoods were more or less safe,

353
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 7: and people were able to lead decent lives. If the

354
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 7: contrast between that world and the world we inhabit now

355
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 7: is owing so directly to liberal policies intended, so we're

356
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 7: told to help African Americans. Why do African Americans support

357
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 7: the liberal the more liberal of the two parties, the

358
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 7: Democratic Party, at the rates of ninety and more percent.

359
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 7: Why is the first African American president so deeply committed

360
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 7: to promoting and extending liberal policies. Why is his African

361
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 7: American Attorney general again so deeply committed to affirmative action

362
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 7: and other Why this makes sense?

363
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,359
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think we could be enough hours to

364
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,159
Speaker 1: answer all those, But to take the political thing, one

365
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: of the things I discovered in the research for mine

366
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 1: and from my book I'm currently working on, is that

367
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: leaders of groups that are lagging in countries around the

368
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,080
Speaker 1: world almost invariably have counterproductive policies for them. And it

369
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense because in so far as members of

370
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,720
Speaker 1: lagging groups assimilate into the values and achievements of the

371
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: largest society.

372
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,959
Speaker 2: They don't need those leaders, you know.

373
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 1: And you see this, look at the history of the

374
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 1: Czechs in the nineteenth century. People are worried that the

375
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 1: Czechs are all learning to speak German. Well, at that time,

376
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 1: if you wanted to become a professional person, scientists, anything

377
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 1: like that, you had to use books that were written

378
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 1: in German, simply because the German acquired a volume of

379
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 1: literature centuries ahead of Czech And yet they fought to

380
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 1: and nail against that. If you look at the Sri Lanka,

381
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: one of the arguments that was made there to the

382
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 1: Buddhist leaders was that if we don't do something, that

383
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 1: the Tamil minority will assimilate members of the of the

384
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 1: of the sin Ealese majority, and then there will be

385
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 1: no Buddhists or sin Ealese in another several generations. And so,

386
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,400
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no mystery to me as the why

387
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 1: Jesse Jackson says what he does, Al Sharpton and others

388
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 1: because that benefits them, but it does not benefit the

389
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 1: people they lead. And all the incentives off for leaders

390
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 1: to lead people into things that don't help the people

391
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 1: but help.

392
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 4: The leaders, Clifton Duncan, Why do you think there has

393
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 4: been you know, six hundred and twenty eight backers, you've

394
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 4: had more than that since then? That was the number

395
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,919
Speaker 4: I saw from a few days ago. Where do you

396
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,120
Speaker 4: what is the source of this? Why do you think

397
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,439
Speaker 4: people want He's not a well known guy, or as

398
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,880
Speaker 4: well known as he should be considering his intellectual prowess

399
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 4: and his influence.

400
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 2: Why do you think people want to see this?

401
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 5: Well? One, you know, I've built an audience over the

402
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 5: past few years just by speaking my mind.

403
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 2: And so I think.

404
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 5: The people that I've attracted to my work, or my ideas,

405
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 5: or my opinions, my persona whatever you you know, whatever

406
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 5: you might want to call it, they're excited about the

407
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 5: prospect of me doing doing something, especially given my story

408
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 5: in my background. And I think, again, soul is somebody

409
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 5: who among this demographic of folks is highly, highly revered.

410
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 5: And so I think the combination of those two factors

411
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 5: and people are really sick of the current traditional cultural

412
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 5: institutions just pumping out I mean everything from comic books

413
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 5: and video games to Hollywood. Right, They're pumping out this

414
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 5: content that or this material that speaks to one as

415
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 5: Soul would put a vision of the world, and it's

416
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 5: just not connecting with people. So I think there's an

417
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 5: excitement about myself. There's an excitement about seeing someone like

418
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 5: Soul brought to the stage in the manner of you know,

419
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 5: a third Good Marshall or James Baldwin or you know

420
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 5: Louis Armstrong and Paul Robinson have been done before. And

421
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 5: there's also just a sort of what's the u PG term,

422
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,640
Speaker 5: sort of a middle finger to the established cultural institution saying, hey,

423
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 5: you know, we we're putting our money where we want

424
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 5: it to go, and we're not putting it like I

425
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 5: said before that we're not going to your theaters. We

426
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 5: want to see we want to hire this person to

427
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 5: write this play.

428
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: We don't.

429
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 5: We don't care about what you're doing, you know, over there.

430
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 5: And so I think it's it's a it's a it's

431
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 5: a mixture of things, and also a fourth aspect, now

432
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 5: that I think about it might be just I think

433
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 5: there seems to be a shift in the zeitgeist. I'm

434
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 5: in New York right now and I was hanging out

435
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 5: last night with a bunch of younger artists, and there

436
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 5: is a it was a much more heterodox crowd, mixed crowd.

437
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 5: There were some Republicans there, there were some you know,

438
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 5: lefties there, and I think a lot of people are

439
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 5: really more even in New York, are just really they're

440
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 5: more over all of this division and partisan nonsense than

441
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 5: I think we're being led to believe. Like it's sort

442
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 5: of an open conversation now, but about what the problems

443
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 5: are in terms of you know, quote unquote wokeness or progressivism,

444
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 5: whatever it is people are seeing, and I think they

445
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 5: really are being getting fed up with it. So, you know,

446
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 5: it also just might be the right place at the

447
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 5: right time. I mean, you know, that's what most acting

448
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 5: careers are anyway. But maybe in the cultural zeitgeist, it's

449
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 5: just that time where people are like, we're ready for this,

450
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 5: and this is what we want. So maybe I'm just

451
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 5: a lucky so and so by discovering, you know, striking

452
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 5: right at the right time, Well.

453
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 2: I have you here.

454
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 4: You have certainly peaked a number of people's interest in

455
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 4: who is the man behind this voice and this experience

456
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 4: of how he got there, and we've gone deep into

457
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 4: that in the past. But before I let you go,

458
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 4: I want to let people know what you're up to

459
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 4: and how they can support you.

460
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: You're doing a podcast.

461
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 5: Now, yeah, thanks Michael. So, I mean I do have

462
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 5: a podcast, but I haven't recorded an episode in a while.

463
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 5: It's the Clifton Duncan Podcast, but I will resume shortly

464
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 5: with some fantastic guests. I also have a sub stack

465
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 5: aka newsletter called The State of the Arts, which I

466
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 5: try to post weekly, but you know, things are really

467
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 5: busy lately, so it's a bit more difficult. But my

468
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 5: thoughts about just the state of our cultural institutions, and

469
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 5: it's the intersection both that and the podcast. But the

470
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 5: tagline is, you know, the intersection of art, entertainment, culture

471
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 5: and society. So it's a bit of current events, bit

472
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 5: of politics, but mostly art and culture and how they

473
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 5: intersect and how and how they influence society. I'm also

474
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 5: on at Clifton A.

475
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: Duncan.

476
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 5: That's probably my biggest platform right now. I'm also on

477
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 5: Instagram at Clifton Duncan Online.

478
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: And finally I.

479
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 5: Have a YouTube channel which is just my first and

480
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 5: last name, Clifton Duncan, and you know you can find

481
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 5: my podcast on there. Some performance videos as well, which

482
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 5: I hope to post more of so that's my digital

483
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 5: footprint and now people can find me and find out

484
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 5: more about me.

485
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 4: I'm very proud of what you've done, making lemons, making

486
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 4: lemonade out of the lemons that were dealt you. I

487
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 4: told you when we spoke several years ago that you

488
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 4: are a very dangerous man, because the most dangerous man

489
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 4: is a black man with an independent mind in America today,

490
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 4: and you have dared to be dangerous by being independent.

491
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 4: You may not recall, but you and I share a

492
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 4: birthday of November tenth, so one of the love of

493
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 4: Thomas soul and a birthday of November tenth. I'm minded

494
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 4: by looking at your Twitter page, Clifton Duncan, we look

495
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 4: forward to seeing this production. We wish you the absolute best.

496
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 4: I'm sure some folks are gonna want to contribute to

497
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 4: your to your to your fundraiser for that to help

498
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 4: you put this on, and I will be as well.

499
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: And good luck, my man, good luck. You're doing great

500
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: work and making a difference. Michael, thank you so much.

501
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure.

502
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 6: Ramond King of Ding and this other guy, Michael.

503
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 4: Barry, my friend David Malesby, who's the executive director of well, no,

504
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 4: because Ramone's making David malls be jokes because they're big buddies.

505
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 4: Who's the executive director of Camp Hope and Ramone spends

506
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 4: a lot of time with David. They record the Camp

507
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 4: Hope podcast together. Well, I laughed because he's Ramone said,

508
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 4: he's not your friend. I don't want y'all think I'm

509
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 4: laughing at David Malsby. I wouldn't do that. Ramones basically

510
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 4: saying that David doesn't like me, which could be true.

511
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 4: Could be true, because I'm you know, I can be

512
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 4: difficult to be around. But David Ballsby sent me something

513
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: recently that I really liked is Johnny Carson and Ramona

514
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 4: and I love Johnny Carson telling the story of how

515
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 4: he first met Red Skelton. And there's going to be

516
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 4: a point to this at the end of it. But

517
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 4: for some of our older listeners, you you probably love

518
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 4: Red Skelton, and I know I do. I just thought

519
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 4: it was a great story. So I'm constantly consuming content,

520
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: and some of it I want to share with you.

521
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: So here was the story.

522
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 8: Let me tell you how I first met Red Skelton.

523
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 8: I may have told a story on the air before,

524
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 8: but When I first came to California in nineteen fifty,

525
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 8: I was doing a show at KNXT, the local CBS

526
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 8: channel on Vine Street, was right across in the Hollywood

527
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 8: ranch market, and I had a five minute television show

528
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 8: in the morning from one from eight.

529
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: To fifty five to nine.

530
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 8: Well, if you take the half hour station identification time,

531
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 8: it really comes down to four and a half minutes, right.

532
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 8: He was sponsored by a coffee from the Midwest called

533
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 8: Butternut Coffee. So by the time you take out the commercial,

534
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 8: I had three and a half minutes a show, and

535
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 8: I had a little too flat, and I had the

536
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 8: door on two saw horses. That was my desk, very

537
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 8: little money, so I would come in and do some

538
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 8: jokes on what was going on on the paper. And

539
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 8: one morning, just for the fun of it, I had

540
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 8: the stage manager just run in front of the camera.

541
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 8: Couldn't even see what was I says I read. I said,

542
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 8: that was today's guest, Red Skelton, and we don't have

543
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 8: any more time to talk with him because of the

544
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 8: limits of our show. I got a call on the

545
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 8: telephone from Red Skelton, who watches a lot of television.

546
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 8: He's a television fan, and he's watching the local kid

547
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 8: the local station near Los Angeles do the show. He says,

548
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 8: would you like me to come down and be on

549
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 8: the show? I said, you've got to be kidding. Next morning,

550
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 8: he gets in his car, he drives down from his home.

551
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 8: Red Skeleton shows up at KNXTO and I was been

552
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 8: a fan of Red since I was a kid.

553
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: He says, what would you like me to do?

554
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 8: And I said, well, if you don't mind nothing, And he.

555
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 2: Said, what do you mean.

556
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 8: I said, I just want you to sit behind me

557
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 8: and I'll do the show and you just sit there.

558
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 8: He said, okay, So I came on. I'd do my

559
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 8: three minutes of jokes and so forth. At the end

560
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 8: of the show, I turned around and I said, and.

561
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: What's your name?

562
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 8: He said, and you would say I'm Red Skeleton, and

563
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 8: I would say A likely story, and I say, thank you,

564
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 8: We'll see you tomorrow. This went on for about seven

565
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 8: or eight shows. This man got in the car, drove down.

566
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 8: I didn't let him for six days, and the final

567
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 8: day we opened up the show and I found the

568
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 8: kenny the other day at home.

569
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: I still have that little.

570
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 8: Segment and I was bound and gagged my hands were tired,

571
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 8: and the gag and Red was set there and did

572
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 8: the three and a half minutes, did the commercial and everything.

573
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: That is the way we met.

574
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 8: Most times I ever had my life where I was

575
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 8: hanging around CBS in the fifties when you were on

576
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 8: the air and all those great shows came out, playouts

577
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 8: in ninety and Bob Cross being our link letter and

578
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 8: all those great shows were working.

579
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: There was a lot of fun.

580
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's what You're a wonderful man to be around.

581
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: You taught me a lot. I stole a lot from you. Yeah, yes,

582
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: I did.

583
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 9: No. No, it's like the students. They say, Johnny was

584
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 9: with you at one time. You helped him guest. I said, no,

585
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 9: nobody helps you get started. If you've got talent, they

586
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 9: can put you behind a brick wall, you'll come through,

587
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 9: you know.

588
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: That's so that's what you have.

589
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 4: And I know we play this on the fourth of

590
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 4: July every year, but we cannot talk about Red Skelton

591
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: without playing the Red Skeleton Pledge of Allegiance version. That

592
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 4: is my absolute favorite, although Charlie Daniels is just be

593
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 4: a close second. So it's kind of like Paul Harvey.

594
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 4: It's timeless.

595
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: So here we go.

596
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 9: I remember a teacher that I had. Now I only

597
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 9: I went. I went through the seventh grade. I went

598
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 9: to seventh grade, and I left home when I was

599
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 9: ten years old because I was hungry.

600
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: And I used to do this.

601
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: I work in the summer and I go to school

602
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: in the winter. But I had this one teacher.

603
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 9: It was the principal of the Harrison School in Vincennes, Indiana.

604
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 9: To me, this was the greatest teacher, a real sage

605
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 9: of my time. Anyhow, he had such wisdom. And we

606
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 9: were all reciting the Pledge of Allegiance one day and

607
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 9: he walked over, this little old teacher, mister Lasswell was

608
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 9: his name, mister Lastwell, and he says, I've been listening

609
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 9: to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance

610
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 9: all semester, and it seems as though it's becoming monotonous

611
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 9: to you. If I may, may I recite it and

612
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 9: try to explain to you the meaning of each word.

613
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 9: I me, an individual, a committee of one.

614
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: Pledge dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without

615
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: self pity allegiance, my love, and my devotion to the flag,

616
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: our standard old glory, A symbol of freedom. Wherever she waves,

617
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: there's respect because your loyalty has given her a dignity

618
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 3: that shouts freedom is everybody's job.

619
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: United.

620
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: That means that we have all come together states, individual

621
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 3: communities that have united into forty eight great states, forty

622
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose, all

623
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose.

624
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: And that's love for country and to the republic. Republic

625
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 3: a state.

626
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 9: In which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by

627
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 9: the people to govern, and government is the people.

628
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 3: And it's from the people to the leaders, not from

629
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: the leaders to the people.

630
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 6: For which it stands one nation, one nation, meaning so

631
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 6: blessed by God, indivisible, incapable of being divided.

632
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 3: With liberty, which is freedom, the right of power to

633
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 3: live one's own life without threats, fear, or some sort

634
00:32:54,000 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: of retaliation, and justice, the principle or quality piece of

635
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 3: dealing fairly with others, for all, for all, which means,

636
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: boys and girls, it's as much your country as it

637
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: is mine. And now, boys and girls, let me hear

638
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 3: you recite the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to

639
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 3: the flag of the United States of America and to

640
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 3: the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with

641
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 3: liberty and justice for all. Since I was a small boy,

642
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: two states have been added to our country, and two

643
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance under God.

644
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is

645
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: a prayer and that it would be eliminated from the

646
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 3: school school h