1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is now on YouTube. To watch this 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: episode and others, just visit Ruthy's Table four dot com 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: forward slash YouTube. 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in collaboration with me 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: and m Intelligence style for busy women. Every once in 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 2: a while, you meet a hero you've admired for years, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: someone you feel you love from afar. For me, it 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: was the right Honorable Dame to Cinda Arderne as Prime Minister, 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: to senda past the Zero Carbon Act, committed to cutting 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: child poverty, to have expanded paid parental leave, implemented a 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: child food program, and much much more. She guided New 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: Zealand through the white supremacy attack on two mosques at 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: christ Church and the pandemic where the world saw a 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: leader proving that compassion and rigor can be a governing principle. 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: I run a restaurant, she runs a country. But we 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: both navigate by following the same bright stars. Today we're 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 2: here together in the River Cafe a hero. I've finally 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: met a woman I can justifiably now say I love. 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 3: It's a beautiful intro. 20 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: True, absolutely true. So it's one thing to be Prime 21 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: Minister of a country. It's one thing to be an 22 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: author of a great book. And now you also have 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: written your own children's book. Yes, and you also have 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: a documentary which is I Am dying to see, which 25 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: is on posters everywhere. Tell me about you know what 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 2: you've been doing lately? 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 3: Well with the children's I mean the children's book a 28 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 3: lot easier to write than the Elks book, but it's 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: based on conversations I used to hit with my daughter, 30 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: and I decided to turn it into a book because 31 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 3: you know, when you're a working parent, you know you 32 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: face these questions from your kids that that make you 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: realize that maybe they use the way you spend your 34 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 3: time as a measure of your love. And I wanted 35 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: something that would convey to her that, yes, yes I work, 36 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: but there's nothing that's as important to me as as 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 3: her and our relationship. And so that's it's called Mum's 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 3: busy work, and that's that's what I thought. There was 39 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 3: a little gap because I never found anything as a 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 3: working parent that that had that messaging. 41 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: Really is that published? Here? Is it published? Well? 42 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 3: I can get that it's published in the UK, let 43 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: me start, but you can also get it in America. 44 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 3: With an mom the documentary My My husband's a broadcaster 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 3: and so when I became Prime Minister, he just picked 46 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: up a camera and just caught moments behind the scenes. 47 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: You know. 48 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: At that time, I think it was both in our heads, 49 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: you know, that would have some record for our family. 50 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 3: But then when I left office, his conversation started about 51 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 3: whether or not it might be something else. And so 52 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 3: it's a documentary now. It's called Prime Minister, and it's 53 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: in the UK and cinemas on the on the from 54 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 3: the fifth of December, and we can see it on 55 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 3: you can see it in in cinema. If you're in 56 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: the US, you can see it on HBO and HB. 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, did you enjoy doing it? Did you? Were 58 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: you involved? 59 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: Well, so, I mean I guess to say, did you 60 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 3: enjoy doing it? It's like did you enjoy being Prime Minister? 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: Because it's very it's very intimate, it's very much behind 62 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 3: the scenes and I hope a bit of a window 63 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: into what it's like to lead. And so I didn't. 64 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: I found it a hard watch because it's very realistic. 65 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: So I've only seen the final version, just. 66 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: The one you didn't. 67 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I watched it a sun dance with everyone else. Yeah. Yeah, 68 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 3: so it's it's it's a lot. But you know, I 69 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 3: watched it and I thought, yeah, that was what it 70 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 3: was like. 71 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know where the Prime minister lives in 72 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: New Zealand. 73 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 3: You have a palace, I wouldn't. So so we have 74 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: the this beautiful home in New Zealand called Premier House, 75 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: which is on and off through its history being used 76 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 3: as a home where the Prime Minister of the day lives. 77 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 3: But and it's not too distant history, it was a 78 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: dental training school and I met people who would say 79 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 3: I used to get my teeth done in the house 80 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 3: that you're living in, and so on the ground floor 81 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: it's got some events space and so actually civil servants 82 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: and different groups would use it. I'd often come home 83 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 3: and there might be people in the downstairs and they're 84 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: just trot upstairs to the first floor apartment where we 85 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 3: would live. And I had a basic little kitchen in it. 86 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: But you didn't have a shot for cooking, no, no, no, 87 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: so you had to take care of your own food. 88 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we would. There's a great chef in New 89 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 3: Zealand called Nadia Lim and she started a meal bags 90 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 3: and meal kits called my food bag, and we would 91 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: use that because you know, it was fresh ingredients and 92 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 3: it was easy, and it just meant that we could 93 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 3: cook something at home in thirty minutes. Clac did our 94 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: cooking for the most part, and so that's where those meals. 95 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: That is. Why do I wonder why the value on 96 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: having the highest elected official in a country not be 97 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: fed by I started? 98 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 3: I think in New Zealand, and I appreciate this about 99 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: news agent we're pretty unhierarchical. We like to know that, 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 3: you know, if you're a member of Parliament, that you're 101 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 3: being careful with taxpayers money. Yeah, now, and we also 102 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 3: you know, I think one of the great things about 103 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 3: the prime ministership in New Zealand is you keep your 104 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 3: proximity to people. So you know, I would still go 105 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: to the grocery store vision yeah, and you'd have great 106 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 3: conversations with people, would take a little longer. You know, 107 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 3: I'd still drive myself places when I could. 108 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: And so it's very cool, isn't it. 109 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: So the shift back to not being in that role 110 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: isn't the huge sleep in the world. You don't have 111 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 3: security following you around anymore. But it's probably quite a 112 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: good thing. Yeah, you're definitely, don't. You know, you have 113 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: more time to cook. 114 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: How many women prime ministers were there before you too? 115 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 3: To first one was in the mid nineteen nineties and 116 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: that was Jinnie Shipley. And then the second one, the 117 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 3: longest serving, was Helen Clark, and she was first elected 118 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety nine and served nine years, three terms, 119 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 3: and so not two distant history. She was the first 120 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 3: prime minister ever voted for. Was Helen? Was Helen Clark? 121 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 3: And so real a gift to have two other women 122 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: in front of me, do you think, I think? 123 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: Why a gift? 124 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: Because it meant that I wasn't breaking that particular glass ceiling. 125 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 3: You know, there'd been women before me. I didn't feel 126 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 3: like I had to prove that you could be a 127 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: female leader and be competent. That had been well proven. 128 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: I think instead what I ended up testing was the 129 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: types of qualities you could brings as a leader. You know, 130 00:06:54,400 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 3: these ideas of compassion whilst still conveying strength. Those were 131 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: things people I think really questioned and I was very visibly. 132 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 3: I mean, we've had parents obviously as prime minister before, 133 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: but I had a baby. 134 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 4: So pronounced tell me about that. What was it like, 135 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 4: you can get maternity leave. Well, it was a funny 136 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 4: thing because we'd extended matunity leave. And then the question 137 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 4: was would I take it? 138 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 3: And I said, well, I didn't feel like that's something 139 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 3: that I could do, you know, because obviously it's a 140 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 3: very particular job. So I took six weeks, remember, just 141 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: having there was no precedent. I just had to before 142 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: I had my daughter, make it guess of what would 143 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: be about right? And I chose six weeks because generally 144 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: the guidelines for before you could say drive if you 145 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 3: had a sea section, and I thought, O, no, I 146 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: hadn't had any even so I just had to guess. 147 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 3: I thought, what if? What if with a sea section? 148 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: How long before I can physically do things? What's the 149 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: bare minimum? Six weeks? I thought six weeks, and so 150 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 3: I picked that as a bit of a just in case. 151 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 3: I was also very aware that I was the technical 152 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: term a geriatric mother. You were medically they call you 153 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: a geriatric I was thirty seven. I think so many things. 154 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: I remember thinking, well, who decided that that was the term, 155 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 3: and how do we get it changed? And so I 156 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: remember thinking as soon as I got that label or 157 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 3: does that mean everything's going to be harder. Yeah, I 158 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 3: had no baseline. I don't have anyone. 159 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: Did they ever call you up during a maternity live 160 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 2: and say, can you take this call from someone that 161 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 2: you can well? 162 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 3: More? More? I think probably accurately would be how many 163 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 3: times did I call others? Yeah? I never really let go. 164 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: I didn't know. 165 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 3: No, I didn't feel like I should. I was not 166 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 3: public facing, you know, most of it doing in a 167 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 3: home from a chair. My daughter was jaundiced when she 168 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 3: first arrived, so there was a lot of her lying 169 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: in the sun on my lap. 170 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 171 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: Nice, but still doing papers and fun cours. 172 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: And you took her to the U n didn't you? Yeah, 173 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: get you describe that visit to the UN. 174 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: Well, she was four months old, so it was just 175 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: necessity more than anything. You know, I was still breastfeeding. 176 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: It was too long to be without her. 177 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: And did you take her actually into the General Assembly? 178 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 3: Well, so when I they hadn't been part of you know, 179 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: when I was over speaking or head meetings, she might 180 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: come over in case I needed to breastfeed. But on 181 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: the particular day where she was photographed, I was speaking 182 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: at an event in honor of Nelson Mandela and it 183 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 3: was on the General Assembly floor and we hadn't planned 184 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 3: to bring her. I whipped over there because I was 185 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: running late. And then as I came down off the floor, 186 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 3: I saw that Clark had brought her over and he 187 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 3: was just waiting in the sidelines with her. And so 188 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 3: we sat in the seat designated for New Zealand and 189 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: he came over and sat next to us. I grabbed 190 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: her and was holding her. There weren't many people on 191 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 3: the General Assembly floor and then I just heard and 192 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 3: I thought, what in blue blazers is there? And I 193 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 3: asked the representative for New Zealand to the un and 194 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: he said, oh, up up in the wings. You couldn't 195 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 3: see there were these kind of closed off but up 196 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 3: in the wings, he said, oh, the media is sit 197 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: up there. And you know, I didn't pay much attention 198 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 3: because I couldn't see them, but sure enough they were 199 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 3: taking photos of us. And you can tell that, you know, 200 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 3: we're kind of caught off guard because I have this 201 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 3: awful look on my face. I'm making baby pass, you know, 202 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 3: I'm looking around and the clicking noises. But I hope 203 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 3: when people see those photos they see the people around 204 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: me because they were the ones that were making my 205 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 3: job possible. 206 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder if she's the first baby to sit 207 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: in that incredibly beautiful room. 208 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 3: Apparently, yes, apparently she is. 209 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. I went there on school trips. I was so 210 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: moved by going into that building and the history of 211 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 2: it in the wood. Have you been there since then? 212 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: I have several times, And one of the things that 213 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 3: always grabs me is that in one of the walkways 214 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: in there are traditional Marty panels that have been gifted 215 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: and so there's this magnificent and often overwhelming space. Here's 216 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: this piece of home that you can see as you 217 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 3: move through the building. 218 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: What are they? 219 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: They are a type of panel that you would see 220 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 3: in what we would call Muri or Marty meeting spaces 221 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 3: in New Zealand, where there's weavings over the type over 222 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 3: the top of wood panelings and that have been gifted 223 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 3: to the UN. Over there, there's a number of different 224 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 3: cultural pieces around the building from different parts of the world, 225 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 3: but these Marti panels are quite prominently placed, and so 226 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: that my memory, my first memory of being at the 227 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 3: un was seeing this piece of home and feeling incredibly 228 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 3: proud to represent New Zealand and after that visit with 229 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 3: my daughter, New Zealand co sponsors now a breastfeeding space. 230 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: Good because the kind of thing didn't really exist. I 231 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 3: remember Clark changing Neve in a meeting space and a 232 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 3: delegation came into a meeting in there Clark is trying 233 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: to change Neve on a table. So it's a small 234 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 3: little legacy. 235 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: Talking about the food that you ate growing up in 236 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 2: New Zealand school, what your mother cooked, tell me about 237 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: Marty and. 238 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: The indigenous New Zealanders. Marty incredibly generous in the sharing 239 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 3: of every aspect of Malori culture, and that includes food. 240 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 3: Honey is a traditional form of preparation, so the use 241 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: of stones and cooking within the earth over a number 242 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: of hours where you would cook pork or chicken and vegetables, 243 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: and so you see lots of different iterations. 244 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: And culture still exists absolutely. 245 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 3: But there's then a number of other different dishes that 246 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 3: would that are traditional to Mardi culture. And I've tried 247 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,599 Speaker 3: to start a tradition with our daughter that when Matadiki, 248 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 3: the Mali New Year comes around, that will make a 249 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: more traditional a really slow cooked soup where you might 250 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: slow cook pork over a number of hours and then 251 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 3: add pooh, which is a type of watercress to it 252 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 3: at the end. Maybe dumplings as well sometimes are served 253 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 3: with it. But it's very warming because year is. 254 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 2: Is it the same time? 255 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 3: So Marty, New Year is based around harvest and the 256 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 3: lunar calendar and sits around the June mark, which is 257 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 3: My Zealand winter. Yeah. So, and we made that, we 258 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 3: made that a national holiday in New Zealand. 259 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: Did you do that when you were in office? Yeah? 260 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 2: You say that. You're telling us in the kitchen that 261 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,119 Speaker 2: your grandpa. Was it your grandparents who came from Scotland. 262 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 3: My great grandmother came from Scotland in nineteen thirteen. She 263 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: came out on the ship named the Tainui by herself, 264 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 3: with her son, with an eight year old child. She 265 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 3: was divorced earlier that year, which I can't imagine would 266 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: have been that. I divorced in January and on the 267 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 3: boat by November. 268 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: Divorcing and going to New Zoo. 269 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to New Zealand. 270 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: I know. 271 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 3: That's that's really it is. 272 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: Really. 273 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: She bought with her her violin and her pistol and 274 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 3: her son. Yeah, okay, so she came to New Zealand 275 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: married another Scotsman who was born in Australia though McVicar 276 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 3: and had my nana, and she died when my nana 277 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 3: was eight. And my nana then took the violin and 278 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 3: the pistol and both we might have them, we do. 279 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 3: My nana gave me the violin when I was learning 280 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 3: as a girl, and so pretty special treatias. But I 281 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: think they must say a lot about her. 282 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: A lot, a lot. Yeah, And I wonder how how 283 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: long that journey. 284 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: Was, Oh like months, weeks, weeks and weeks and weeks. 285 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: Though to say a woman on her. 286 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen the ship manifest. My mom's a genealogist. 287 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 3: She listed herself as a cook, another cook, another cook. 288 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: But her father was a policeman, which is what my 289 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 3: father ended up doing as well. Yeah, so my great 290 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 3: grandmother came from Scotland, my great great grandfather came from Denmark. 291 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 3: And then I've got other relatives who came from Ireland 292 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: and yet were the only ones in their family. Every 293 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: other sibling they had we Syracuse, New York. And I 294 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 3: cannot tell you why, why if all your family were 295 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 3: going to New York, did you decide No, I'm sailing 296 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 3: on and knowing that you may never see them again 297 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: as such bravery and courage. 298 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 2: And it happens right now. People are leaving true countries 299 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: as brave and courageous refugees and traveling to other country. 300 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: The only the issues are they being welcomed and taken 301 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: care of as my relatives were. 302 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 3: And you know, I think we often forget that that 303 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 3: decision to leave family, leave connection, leave leave your home. 304 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: Uh you know those are those are big hard decisions. 305 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: You don't take those lightly. And for the most part, 306 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: I think they are as my great grandmother would have been, 307 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: most likely driven by the idea of giving her son 308 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 3: a bit of life. There's a lot of Scottish ancestry 309 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 3: in the New Zealand and particularly the South Island. You 310 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 3: go to the furthest southern parts of New Zealand and 311 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 3: they still roll it ours. So so you know, in 312 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 3: the South Island they might say instead of servary sorbery, 313 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: it's just a bit of a stronger r there and 314 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 3: it's credited to the connection of the Scottish ancestry. 315 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 2: Let's talk about the book you wrote, A Different Kind 316 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 2: of Power. Do you think that this background of your 317 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: life led you into political because I also know that 318 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: you had a very strong religious. 319 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 3: You know, I think, I think you're right. I think 320 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: whether it's your ancestry, religion, your parents, so many of 321 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 3: these things input into who we become. And so when 322 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: I sat down to write the you know, a different 323 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 3: kind of power. I remember having that question, that persistent 324 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 3: question in my head that i'd get from people. How 325 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: did you end up in politics? And how did you 326 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 3: end up you know, you know, deciding that these were 327 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 3: the values that mattered to you. And I don't think 328 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 3: you can pinpoint a singular thing, and so I decided 329 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 3: to write about all of it and people decide. My faith. 330 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: I was raised Mormon, and I left in my early twenties, 331 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 3: but I'd bear no resentment, you know, to having been 332 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 3: raised in the church, because it gave me a set 333 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 3: of values that are still really important to me. It 334 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 3: just happened to be that one that felt a bit 335 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 3: inconsistent for me was I believe in inclusivity, you know, 336 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: I believed in people's right to be who they are 337 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 3: without judgment, and so the church's position on homosexuality I 338 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 3: found had so that caused me to leave. But my 339 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 3: faith was also grounded in service and I still carry 340 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 3: that with me, A good healthy dose of guilt. 341 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 2: That's a good mode of transport. So you you just, 342 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 2: you know, not many seventeen or nineteen year olds decide 343 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 2: they want to be the leader of the Labor Party. 344 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 2: But age, but you did, you know, Joe, did that 345 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: just grow into something? 346 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: Kind of grow into something. I mean I remember the 347 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 3: things that I felt most sure i'd become. I mean, 348 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 3: my friends would joke about me kind of, you know, 349 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 3: being a politician. It's because I was the only friend 350 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: they had that belonged to a political party. 351 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I mean. 352 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 3: I was the old one out. But no, I didn't 353 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 3: see it as a career. Yeah, you know, I remember, 354 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 3: you know, in all those little diaries and little books 355 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 3: that you fill in where it's his career, I would 356 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 3: write things like psychologist or writer or probably the closest 357 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 3: alternate career I came to was being a policewoman. 358 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember talking to my dad. 359 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 3: Really seriously about it. I started doing the training. I 360 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 3: don't know that I would ever have passed the physical, 361 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 3: but because I thought, Seriah, yeah, my. 362 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: Bliss a feeling that you want that you wanted to 363 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: travel because you came to Oh yeah, and what was 364 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 2: tell me about that? 365 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: Well, I always, I mean, I remember being obsessed with 366 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 3: the United States, and I wonder if in part that 367 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 3: was my religion. I mean culturally, it's you know, it's 368 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 3: home really as the US. And we had a lot 369 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 3: of Mormon missionaries that would come through my very small 370 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 3: town and they would tell me tales at the moment home. Yeah, yeah, 371 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 3: well they would. They would tell me about Arizona raw 372 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 3: or you tell all the places they came from and 373 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 3: their family would send kool aid or ranch dressing, or 374 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 3: you know, they taught us how to make buffalo wings 375 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 3: and told me about the Simpsons. And I remember just 376 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: thinking America sounds so magical, and so I used to 377 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 3: think I would serve a mission so that I could 378 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 3: go to America. So I remember always the idea of travel, 379 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 3: so excited by it, but I just couldn't see how 380 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 3: it would happen beyond going out and being a Mormon missionary. 381 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 3: So it's felt like there was a big barrier to 382 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 3: there when I was a kid. 383 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 2: But that isn't what you did. 384 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 3: It isn't what I did. No, how did you get 385 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 3: to the States I saved up, worked hard, saved my money, 386 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: and then when I was nineteen, traveled traveled to the 387 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 3: States by myself. I remember that being a big, really 388 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 3: big deal for me. 389 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 2: It is a big deal of that age to go 390 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 2: so far. Do you remember the food in New York? 391 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: Oh? 392 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember, And in particular I was still obsessed 393 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 3: with buffalo wings. 394 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 395 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 3: In fact, as a kid, you know, you know when 396 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 3: you when you live in a small town and it's 397 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 3: birthday time, you didn't really have parties or you know, 398 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 3: you just get to pick your birthday dinner at home. 399 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: I'd pick buffalo wings, yeah, every time. And so eating 400 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: buffalo wings at New Yeah. But yeah, so that did 401 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,239 Speaker 3: you have? 402 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 2: Did you have other food? 403 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 3: Did you go to restaurants or did you I was 404 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 3: in Arizona, so I remember eating a lot of good 405 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 3: Mexican food, and I loved Mexican food. So I think, 406 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 3: I think. I actually when I after I finished up 407 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: in America the second time, I was heavier then than 408 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 3: I was when I was nine months pregnant. 409 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you didn't go to Mexico. 410 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 3: I did not. You have to go I have I 411 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: did not that time. I have been for me it's 412 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 3: one of amazing. 413 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 2: One asked me my favorite city, and they expected me 414 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 2: to say Rome and Milan and Florence, and they are 415 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 2: great cities. But for me, Mexico City. I had to 416 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 2: live there for four months and discovered Mexican food in 417 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 2: a very different way. It doesn't really translate so much, 418 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: you know, the kind of it's great, as you say 419 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: the food you get in the United States and Mexican food, 420 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: but when you get there, it's very kind of light 421 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: and clean. It's delicious. 422 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 3: I remember eating in a place called I want to 423 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 3: say it was Roses, and I think what I remember 424 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 3: loving about it was just the simplicity of all the dishes, 425 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 3: but they were just so good. 426 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 2: And what about coming to England? Did you did you 427 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 2: come to London? 428 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 3: I came here and well, first after I worked as 429 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 3: an advisor and politics kind of stumbled into some of those. 430 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 2: Jobs by that time. You were how old when you. 431 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 3: Came to I was when I came to London, I 432 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 3: was twenty five. I first bought a one way ticket 433 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 3: to New York, thinking that was going to be my experience, 434 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 3: but figured out how hard it is to get visas 435 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 3: and find work and so of course, New Zealanders have 436 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 3: the opportunity to take the working holiday with visa in 437 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 3: the UK, so I ended up coming over here and 438 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 3: I lived here for about two and a half years. 439 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 2: Did you in London? Yeah? 440 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 3: I loved it. Tell me about I lived, you know, 441 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 3: I didn't want to do the traditional oe that New 442 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 3: Zealanders do, and they all live with New Zealanders and Australians, 443 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 3: so I think at the beginning I had one token 444 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: English flatmate, but then ended up with New Zealanders in 445 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 3: Australian but I lived in Vauxhall and Fulham and then 446 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 3: finished in Brixton, and I worked in the British Civil 447 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 3: Service and I loved it. I have lifelong friendships from 448 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 3: my time here. 449 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: And what did you love about working for the I 450 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: think just. 451 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 3: Here generally, I love the proximity to the rest of 452 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 3: the world, and also there's something about being away from 453 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 3: home that helps you solidify your identity. New Zealanders aren't 454 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 3: traditional in their patriotism in lots of ways, but it 455 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 3: really does come out when they're away and you see 456 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 3: the things that we value. I think we have a 457 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 3: really finely tuned sense of fairness. I do think that 458 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 3: we pride ourselves in our hospitality, and so I think 459 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 3: that means that we kind of instinctively look out for 460 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 3: one another and for others if we are acting as host. 461 00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 3: I do think that we value company, we value the 462 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 3: social side of life a bit, and we appreciate sports. Yeah, 463 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 3: we also our physical environment. When you live in a city, 464 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: you kind of realized the proximity to the beach or 465 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 3: those green spaces, or just the freedom you have, the 466 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 3: freedom kids have. Yeah, you notice, you notice the difference. 467 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: But living in London was did you feel that you 468 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 2: loved London or you I did. 469 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 3: I did love it here. And having come from New York, 470 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 3: I just noticed the difference in these two big cities 471 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 3: two thousand and five and I was here to about 472 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 3: two thousand and eight. And so coming from these two 473 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 3: big cities, you notice, you know when New York, our 474 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 3: friends said this to me once, asks you every day 475 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 3: if you really want to be there? 476 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And. 477 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 3: I never felt like that in London. You know, there 478 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 3: isn't that same unbottled rage that you sometimes get in 479 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 3: New York tap in London. 480 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 2: So people love London so much, Yeah, and I do too. 481 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: But yeah, there's a very it's like different communities much more. Yeah, 482 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 2: kind of go between the different areas and communities. Green. Yeah, 483 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 2: the fact that it is so green. What's Auckland like. 484 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: Is it a beautiful city. 485 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 3: I think it's a beautiful city. I do. I mean 486 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 3: it's it's you know, it's the city of Sales. So 487 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: the ocean is very important to the city. Remember when 488 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 3: my now husband and I were first seeing each other, 489 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 3: he had a boat, he's a fisherman, and you know, 490 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 3: he took me out one afternoon. We just popped out 491 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: onto the White Mata Harbor and sailed for you know, 492 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 3: just didn't go that far. And then suddenly we've got 493 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 3: three or four snapper and a John Dory and these 494 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 3: and these dolphins, and there's a black petrol and you know, 495 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 3: I remember saying to me, it's like, it's not always 496 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 3: like this, it's just yeah, it's beautiful in the islands nearby, 497 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 3: it's yeah, it's a beautiful city. 498 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 2: So we chose a recipe for you. So we're going 499 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 2: to do roast mulfish. Do you like mulfish? 500 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 3: Yes? I like all fish. 501 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: Would you like to read it? 502 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 3: Absolutely? Two kgs of monkfish tail, two lemons, cut into slices, 503 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 3: extra virgin olive oil, two rosemary sprigs, eight anchovy philets. 504 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 3: For this recipe, buy whole monkfish tail on the bone. 505 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 3: Ask the fishmonger to remove the tough outer skin. A 506 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 3: tail weighing five hundred grams is ideal for one person 507 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 3: and it will cook in less time. Pre Heat the 508 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 3: oven to two hundred and twenty celsius or gas seven. 509 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 3: Heat an oven proof tray and drizzle with olive oil. 510 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 3: Place the rosemary sprigs on the tray and the fish 511 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 3: on top. Cover with lemons and the anchovies. Season. Roast 512 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 3: in the oven for twenty to thirty minutes. Test by 513 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: piercing with a pointed knife. The juices should be opaque. 514 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 3: Serve with lemon simple, simple sample delicious. 515 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 2: So was fish? It's something you grew up with? Did 516 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: you did? Or is it when you fell in love? Yes? 517 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 2: Married a fish? 518 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 3: Fish fish? 519 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 2: Yes? Yes? And no. 520 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: You know, New Zealand has a tradition that I imagine 521 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 3: has its origins here of fish and chips, and so 522 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 3: my early memories and experience of fish was not so 523 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 3: much that we would have fresh fish cooked at home, 524 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 3: probably because not because of proximity to the sea. Everyone 525 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 3: in New Zealand is quite close to it, but probably 526 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 3: in part because of expense. But every Thursday night we 527 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 3: would get fish and chips. That was the family tree. 528 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 2: That you went out as a family. 529 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 3: Well, we would go down to the local fish and 530 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: chip shop, the Golden Keiwing and order a couple of 531 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 3: pieces of fish. That was what Mom and Dad would 532 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 3: always have me usually too, my sister would have a 533 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 3: hot dog, which is you know, your battered sausage on 534 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 3: a stick, not your American hot dog, just a bad 535 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: sausage on a stick and a good serving of chips. 536 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 3: And we would do that every every Thursday. And that 537 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 3: was this first place I got I got a job 538 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: as well, working on a Friday night? Was it that 539 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: fish and chip shop? 540 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: When was that? 541 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 3: That was I was fourteen. I was fourteen when I 542 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 3: got that job, and I worked there for three or 543 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 3: four years. 544 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 5: Ye. 545 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: So going back to your your family, your parents were. 546 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 3: So well, My mum's boost job was working at a 547 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 3: was working at a burger bar seven fish and chips. 548 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 3: But she she worked in payroll before we came along, 549 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 3: and when we came along, she wanted work that would 550 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: fit around raising us so she ended working at my 551 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 3: school canteen. So she would Her job was to, you know, 552 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 3: in the early morning, put the pies in the pie 553 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 3: warmer and make the make the sandwiches for the staff 554 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: room and the filled roles for the students, and then 555 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 3: she would run the canteen every day. And so before school, 556 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 3: because she worked at the high school, I went to 557 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: just a public school down the road. Before school, I 558 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 3: would go into work with her and I would sit 559 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 3: I would sit in the in the canteen while she 560 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 3: you know, busied herself sometimes making her own lolly slice or. 561 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: Let's say lolly slice. 562 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 3: Lolly slice is it's malt biscuits, So just a plain 563 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,719 Speaker 3: kind of malt biscuit mixed in with butter until it 564 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: makes you know a bit of almost like a pie 565 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 3: based kind of consistency. I want to say, maybe you 566 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 3: put a bit of condensed milk in there to mind, 567 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: and then you would put in like a you know 568 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 3: those banana lollies you get they've got a denseness to them. 569 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 3: We have ones in New Zealand that are and green 570 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 3: and called Explorers, and so you'd push that into it 571 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 3: and they make it into a log and slice it. 572 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 3: I mean it was terribly unhealthy that quite delicious. So 573 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 3: there were things like that she would she would make 574 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 3: them prepare. And so lots of memories of watching my 575 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 3: mum busy at work while I would do a little 576 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 3: bit of last minute homework and go to school. 577 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: It's quite a big job. Was she changed as a just. 578 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 3: And I really remember when mum started working there, the 579 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 3: canteen was running at a loss, and so she worked 580 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: really hard to figure out what it is that the 581 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 3: students would eat and what the you know, staff would eat. 582 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 3: And she tried, she tried healthy things, and then found 583 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 3: that for the most part, the kids wanted, you know, 584 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 3: mince pies or these terrible things in New Zealand called 585 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 3: lasagna toppers. 586 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 2: I'm learning about New Zealand food. 587 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 3: Top is a square of grease. It's thick bolonnaise. I 588 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: think that the meaty sauce of a bolonnaise, and then 589 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 3: it's got a white sauce sitting on top of it, 590 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 3: and then somehow it's then crumbed. And I cannot tell 591 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 3: you how they maintain their form, but they do. And 592 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure they're deep fry. Yeah, And so pies 593 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 3: and lasagna toppers. Those were the things that the kids. 594 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 2: Ate and that did you eat it? 595 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 3: Not so much the lasagna toppers. But I loved a 596 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 3: potato top pie like nothing else. So I mean again 597 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 3: we inherited that from the English for sure, but certainly 598 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 3: the mince or the steak and cheese. But the potato 599 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 3: top is just your traditional mince pie, but it's got 600 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,479 Speaker 3: the flaked potato, the reconstituted flaked potato piped onto the 601 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 3: top of it. And if you're buying a pie from 602 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 3: a fancy place, that might have a slice of tomato 603 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 3: sitting sitting dried, okay from hours in the pie? 604 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 2: Wa good? I mean you describe as being delicious, yeah, 605 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 2: and something that you love. 606 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 3: And man, it will bring bake memories? 607 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 2: Is it? 608 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 3: The memories of what the free and easy time in 609 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 3: your life when you would eat a pie and not 610 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 3: think about the thirty two grams of fat. 611 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,239 Speaker 5: Care three days of your youth where you would be 612 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 5: so energitic that actually lolly slice for breakfast. It didn't 613 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 5: matter because you were just you were just you know, 614 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 5: sports and outdoor activities and and you know, just so 615 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 5: much energy and so many other things to worry about. 616 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 3: Then how healthy your diet was what it brings bake memories, though. 617 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: I've asked everyone since we've done this program, which is 618 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 2: to say, if food is comfort, is there food you 619 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 2: might go to? 620 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 3: My nana's rice pudding? 621 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: Ah, tell me about that. 622 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 3: She used to cook it in the coal range, you know. 623 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 3: So I remember even when she got an electric she's 624 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 3: still cooked on the coal range. And she had beautiful 625 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 3: food on that coal range. And she knew I didn't 626 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 3: like steam pudding, so she would make my own little 627 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 3: it should make a little enamel dish, and it was. 628 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 3: It was just delicious. It was nothing like my nana's rice. 629 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 2: Here we have the rest of it. 630 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 3: My father probably has it. My mother might even have 631 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 3: it somewhere. All I remember of it was it was 632 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 3: not an eggy rice pudding. It was very creamy. She'd 633 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 3: make it really slowly, and it'd always had the little 634 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 3: skin on the top. That was delicious. That was so 635 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 3: that was my nana's, my comfort food of my mother's, 636 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 3: which I sometimes make. It is one of the first 637 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 3: things I learned how to make. It was it sounds 638 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 3: to tuna morena. It was basically a tunic casserole. It 639 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 3: was rice on the bottom, and then it was a 640 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 3: kind of a white sauce, but it was made with 641 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: a soup mix, like an onion soup mix or a 642 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 3: mushroom soup mix, and you'd turn it into a sauce 643 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 3: and you would add can tuna and pea to it, 644 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 3: and you'd put that over the top of the rice 645 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 3: and then you just cover it with grated cheese in 646 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 3: your bacon. 647 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 2: Do you still make it? Oh? 648 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 3: I do? You know? One of my great disappointments is 649 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 3: that my daughter does not respond to it and she 650 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 3: does not love it. I love it, she does not 651 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 3: love it, And for me, that is just classic comfort 652 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 3: food right there. Thank you very much, thank you. 653 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: Ruthie's Table four is proud to support Leukemia UK. The 654 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 2: Cartwheel for a Cure campaign raises funds for vital research 655 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: and more effective and kinder treatments for a cute my 656 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: Lloyd leukemia. Please donate and to do so search Cartwheel 657 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 2: for a Cure. 658 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four was produced by Alex Bell and Zad 659 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: Rogers with Susannahlock, Andrew Sang and Bella Selini. This has 660 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: been an atomized production for iHeartMedia. He do