1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. This is 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: part two of our series on Marie LeFarge. If you 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: haven't yet listened to last week's episode, I would go 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: back and start there. Marie LeFarge arrived at the gravesite 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: of her husband, Charles Lafarge, wearing mourning clothes. She twenty 7 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: four years old, was by all accounts, a striking woman, 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: with long, dark hair tucked under her hat and a 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: complexion that looked particularly elegant against her all black wardrobe. 10 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: It might have looked, at first glance to an onlooker 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: that she was at her husband's gravesite for his funeral, or, 12 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: perhaps more realistically, in this case, to pay her respects 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: to vietly placed flowers down on the grave of a 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: man who had passed away from illness a year earlier. 15 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: But no, Marie LeFarge was wearing black at her husband's 16 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: grave because his body was being exhumed as part of 17 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: a trial. Her trial, she was accused of murdering her husband, 18 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: and her case had captivated the country. There were literally 19 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: hundreds of spectators crowding the grave as it was dug up, 20 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: with the judge of the region Lubersac supervising the digging. 21 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: Savvy venders were selling smelling salts. As soon as Charles 22 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: Lefarge's coffin was pride open, those salesmen began pulling in 23 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: a hefty business. A sea of handkerchiefs were lifted to noses. 24 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: In unison, Marie LeFarge swooned and seemed so faint that 25 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: someone shouted that court should be postponed for the day. 26 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: The jury decreed that the trial should continue to proceed. 27 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: When Marie LeFarge had first been charged with the murder 28 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: of her husband, local apothecary men had tried to test 29 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: her husband's body for arsenic, but they were completely unfamiliar 30 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: with the latest scientific method, a chemical test for identifying 31 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: arsenic created by the Scottish doctor James Marsh. Not only 32 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: had the local men used old fashioned, inexact methods, but 33 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: their test had been completely bungled anyway, a glass tube 34 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: had broken halfway through, so the judge had determined a 35 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: new test would be performed, the Marsh test done by 36 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: professional chemists in full view of the court, so no 37 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: errors would be made. This time around. Unfortunately, by this 38 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: point Charles LaFarge's body had decomposed to the point where 39 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: a newspaper described it as paste rather than flesh. The 40 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: experts were forced to use a spoon to scrape what 41 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: they could into small pots. Those pots were swiftly transported 42 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: to an open air laboratory in tool where a group 43 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: of chemists were going to be faced with the most 44 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: high stakes experiment of their careers. With the court, a 45 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: crowd of spectators, and the nation waiting, these chemists scurried 46 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: around their charcoal furnaces. They painstakingly added the proper chemical 47 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: reagents and set up a piece of porcelain at exactly 48 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: the right distance from a flame. And then they held 49 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: their breath, probably both from the stench of Charles l 50 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: Lefarge's remains and from the anticipation of what they were doing. 51 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: The Marsh test was deceptive in its seeming simplicity, though 52 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: the chemistry involved wasn't particularly complex, there were a number 53 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: of factors in its methodology that had to be absolutely 54 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: perfect in order for the test to work, and the 55 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: French chemists and toul who had read about the procedure 56 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: in translation were performing it for the first time. Finally, 57 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: after a day of waiting and anticipating, the chemists returned 58 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: to the Palace of Justice. They turned to the judge 59 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: and the jury and announced they had reached their scientific 60 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: conclusion as to whether there was arsenic in the body 61 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: of Charles Lafarge. Marie LeFarge looked as those who were 62 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: about to fame as she and the rest of the 63 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: room waited to hear the determination that would all but 64 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: seal her fate. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is noble blood. 65 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: The evidence against Marie LeFarge was building a very compelling 66 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: case against her. She had been miserable in her marriage 67 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: to Charles Lafarge. She was lied to and forced to 68 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: live in his decrepit, crumbling estate out in the country, 69 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: far from her friends and her well connected social scene 70 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: in Paris. On the first night she had arrived, she 71 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: had barricaded herself in her bedroom and threatened to kill 72 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: herself with arsenic if he didn't release her from the marriage. 73 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: Less than six months later, her husband was dead. Marie 74 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: had ordered arson from an apothecary. A few days before. 75 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: She sent her husband a cake in the mail, a 76 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: cake that he seemed to become ill immediately after eating, 77 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: and Marie had procured arsenic again. Once her husband was 78 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: back home. She had sent Charles's clerk, Denis Barbier, to 79 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: get a sizeable amount of arsenic, allegedly to kill the 80 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: rats that still ran about their home. When the investigators 81 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: had arrived after Charles's death, they found a bag of 82 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: arsenic buried in the garden, seemingly hidden away from private eyes. 83 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: A servant told the magistrate that Marie LeFarge had told 84 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: him to bury it on her account so law enforcement 85 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to find it, presumably, and the friend 86 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: of the family who worked as a housekeeper, Mademoiselle Braun, 87 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: had seen Marie LeFarge putting white powder into broth that 88 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: she was preparing for Charles. And then there was the 89 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: case of the missing jewelry. Years before Charles's death, back 90 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: when Marie was still unmarried, she had visited a friend 91 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: of hers, the Vicomtesse de Leotto. Not long after the visit, 92 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: the Vicomtesse noticed that some of her diamonds were missing. 93 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: Though she and her husband didn't have Marie investigated, they 94 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: were always suspicious, and once news of this massive murder 95 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: trial hit newspapers. The Vicomte reached out to investigators and 96 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: let them know that perhaps Marie's room should be searched 97 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: for diamonds, and what should they have found right in 98 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: Marie's room but those very jewels. Of course, stealing jewels 99 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: is unrelated to the possible murder of one's husband, but 100 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: it painted a damning picture of an am a moral 101 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: woman who would steal and possibly even murder out of 102 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: resentment for the fact that her lot in life had 103 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: led her to marriage with a broke iron master. But 104 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: of course, with regards to the actual murder, when Marie's 105 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: case was going to trial, there was one piece of 106 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: evidence more damning than anything else. Investigators on the site 107 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: had tested Charles's body for arsenic. They tested the cup 108 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: of broth Mademoiselle Bron had put aside, and they tested 109 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: the little white box that Marie LeFarge had claimed contained 110 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: gum arabic. They had determined arsenic was present. Sure, they 111 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: the local men in Brieve had not been expert forensic chemists, 112 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: and they hadn't used the more sophisticated March test. And yes, 113 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: a tube had broken, but they had found arsenic, and 114 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: that had to mean something, but did it? At the trial, 115 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: Marie Lefarge's defense council cleared his throat one morning in 116 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: court and read out a letter that had come directly 117 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: from Paris. There was a rarefied air around the letter. 118 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: People knew it was important. It was from a man 119 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: who was nothing short of a scientific celebrity. Metuophila was 120 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: the dean of the Paris medical Faculty, and he served 121 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: on a number of influential committees. He edited important medical 122 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: journals and less important but still interesting. He had a 123 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: beautiful singing voice and would often hold musical salons that 124 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: were considered centers of culture. The defense council began to 125 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: read the let letter that Orphila had sent to court. 126 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: You ask me, he wrote, if it is sufficient proof 127 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: of the presence of arsenic in the digestive organs, if 128 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: the liquor produced by boiling them in distilled water yield 129 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: when treated with sulfurated hydrogen a yellow precipitate. He was 130 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: describing the old method, the non marsh method for finding arsenic. 131 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: I answer no, he said. Orphela referenced a previous case 132 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: where the yellow precipitate that is so often mistaken for 133 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: arsenic had been something completely innocuous. The test that those 134 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: men had done in brief Orphela concluded was completely meaningless. 135 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: In eighteen forty, an English doctor writing about the case 136 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: reached the same verdict, stating no weight can be attached 137 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: to the report of the brief commission, the members of 138 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: which evidenced the grip josest ignorance of the truths known 139 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: to the merest tyro in legal medicine. They had found arsenic, 140 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: maybe sure, but factoring in the old, unreliable method and 141 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: the broken too, the entire thing was bunk. And if 142 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: there was no proof that Charles Lafarge had actually been 143 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: poisoned with arsenic, then there was only circumstantial evidence of 144 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: a woman who might have been unhappy in her brief marriage, 145 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: but wasn't a murderer. And so those were the circumstances 146 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: that led to the judge ordering a second examination of 147 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: Charles LaFarge's body. This time, experts from Limoge would take 148 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: whatever samples they could from the decomposed corpse, used their 149 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: spoons to scoop it into jars and use the marsh test, 150 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: which could detect even the tiniest train of arsenic By 151 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: this time, the trial had become a sensation. If you 152 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: were imagining something out of the musical Chicago, where an 153 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: accused murderess becomes an object of tabloid celebrity, you wouldn't 154 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: be far off. People crowded into the courtroom to get 155 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: a glimpse of the young widow dressed all in black, 156 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: who was known to swoon and to require smelling salts 157 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: at various points during the proceedings. As the trial went on, 158 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: Marie LeFarge would begin to be carried into courts on 159 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: a setae. So delicate were her sensibilities and so finally, 160 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: with anticipation as high as it possibly could be, the 161 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: Lamoge Commission issued their report. Using the incredibly scientific Marsh test. 162 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: They found no arsenic in Charles LaFarge's body. Marie and 163 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: her counsel both burst into tears. She was vindicated, at 164 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: least for now. With the scientific consensus that Marie LeFarge 165 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: was actually innocent, the events of the preceding year began 166 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: to tell a slightly different story. Sure, Marie had been 167 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: unhappy when she had arrived at her husband's crumbling estate 168 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: to find that he had lied about his financial situation, 169 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't you be Yes, She had threatened suicide that night, 170 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: but she had been overwhelmed, foolish, embarrassed, childish. Her husband 171 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: Charles had responded kindly, and from that point on he 172 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: and Marie began to get along. It was at least amiable, 173 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: something that slowly developed over the weeks into friendship and 174 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: then maybe even devotion. Of course, Marie's mother in law 175 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: was suspicious and resentful of her from the start. Marie 176 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: wrote in her memoirs that when Charles was away, he 177 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: would write sweet love notes to Marie in his letters home. 178 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: For a time, it was an evening tradition that Marie 179 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: would read Charles's letters out loud, but she noticed how 180 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: her mother in law stiffened and bristled when she read 181 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: anything sweet or romantic. Marie stopped reading those parts. The 182 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: fact that Charles had gotten sick after eating cakes they sent, well, 183 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: Marie's mother in law had baked those cakes. She was 184 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,479 Speaker 1: the only one in the family who baked the desserts, 185 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: and if the cakes had been replaced or tampered with 186 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: by the time they reached Charles in Paris, there was 187 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: no evidence it was Marie who did that. It could 188 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: have been anyone at that point. In fact, it seems 189 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: unlike Marie would have poisoned the cakes at all, because 190 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: she wrote in her letter to Charles that he should 191 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: invite her favorite sister over while he was in Paris, 192 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: where it seems really likely that she could have shared 193 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: the cake. You don't want to suggest your favorite sister 194 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: go over to a house where poisoned cake is lying around. 195 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: As for ordering arsenic, Arsenic was used as rat poison, 196 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: and le Glandier their home was full of rats. They 197 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: scampered everywhere, ate Marie's clothes. It's completely reasonable that Marie 198 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: would try to make it so that the home that 199 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: she lived in might be slightly improved. And then when 200 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: Charles came home ill and bedridden, the rats were bothersome. 201 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: They made noise and kept Charles up when he needed 202 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: bed rest. If Marie had actually planned on poisoning her 203 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: husband with the arsenic, then why would she have told 204 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: him about every step she was taking to get arsenic 205 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: and get rid of the rats. She told him when 206 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: she sent his clerk, Denny Barbier to get the arsenic, 207 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: and she showed Charles how much had come when Barbier 208 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: had returned, there was nothing sneaky about it. Well, what 209 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: about the arsenic that was buried in the yard when 210 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: the investigators came. In Marie's memoir, she says, a young servant, 211 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: panicked by the thought of either Marie or anyone else 212 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: in the household being accused of arsenic poisoning, had buried 213 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: it without telling Marie. When the investigators interrogated the servant boy, 214 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: they had intimidated him. They had threatened him with the 215 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: scaffold unless he told them that he had buried the 216 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: arsenic on Marie's orders. By then, the investigation had already 217 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: set its sights firmly on Marie, who had been accused 218 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: by Charles's suspicious family members who hated her from the start. 219 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: But sometimes people get cholera, Sometimes people die of cholera. 220 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: The matter of the Vicomtess's missing diamonds was a little 221 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: more complicated, But even then Marie had an explanation. You see, 222 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: when the investigators were given the tip and arrived to 223 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: search Marie's rooms for the jewels, well they hadn't actually 224 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: needed to search at all. Marie Lafarcee told them outright, yes, 225 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: she did have the Vicomtessa's diamonds and told them exactly 226 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: where they were. She hadn't stolen the diamonds from her friend. 227 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: Her friend had given them to her to sell to 228 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: help her friend out of a tricky financial situation. The 229 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: Vicomtess was being blackmailed by an ex lover, and she 230 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: had asked Marie to secretly sell some of her diamonds 231 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: to pay him off. The Vicomtesse had not expected her 232 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: husband to even notice that the jewels were gone. In 233 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: the meantime, Marie kept the diamonds safe in her room 234 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: while she figured out what to do with them. When 235 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: Marie was arrested for the alleged jewel robbery, she wrote 236 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: to her friend, May God never visit upon you the 237 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: evil you have done to me. Alas I know you 238 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: are really good but weak. You have told yourself that 239 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: I am likely to be convicted of an atrocious crime. 240 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: I may as well take the blame of one which 241 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: is only infamous. I keep our secret. I left my 242 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: honor in your hands, and you have not chosen to 243 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:56,479 Speaker 1: absolve me. The story is a little far fetched, I admit. 244 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: While waiting for the murder trial to proceed, Marie was 245 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: actually tried and found guilty for stealing the jewels. In 246 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: the end, it was her word against her friends, and 247 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: the Vicomtesse maintained that there had been no ruinous blackmail plot. 248 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: But even if Marie was guilty of stealing her friend's diamonds, 249 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: as Marie had pointed out in her letter, that crime 250 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: was merely infamous as opposed to the atrocious crime of murder. 251 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: And the chemists came back with the marsh test and 252 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: absolved Marie LeFarge of murder. There was no arsenic in 253 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: Charles LaFarge's body, and so no matter how likely a 254 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: suspect Marie Lafarge was, it was going to be very 255 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: difficult for a jury to convict her. Still, the prosecution 256 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: was convinced that Marie Lafarge was a murderess, and they 257 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: were determined to do everything they could to win their case, 258 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: even if the defense was already doing a metaphorical victory lap. 259 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: After the test results. Wait a moment, the prosecution said, 260 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: there was one test that said there was arsenic and 261 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: another that said there wasn't. That's not very definitive at all. Sure, 262 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: the Lamoege Commission had used the brand new Marsh test, 263 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: but it was famously tricky, and they had done it 264 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: for the first time, there's no guarantee that they did 265 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: it right. The prosecution had an idea, a Hail Mary, 266 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: a tiebreaker test done by none other than the celebrity 267 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: of the French chemistry world, met to Orphila himself. By 268 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: this point, there was nothing left of poor Charles LaFarge's 269 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: body but something I read described as a milkshake like 270 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: preparation of organ mash. But Orphila was the expert. If 271 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: anyone in France could do the Marsh test and do 272 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: it absolutely correctly, it was him. Orphila was a distinguished 273 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: looking man, with a bald head and fuzzy tufts of 274 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: hair circling his temples. Contemporary drawings of him highlight his small, 275 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: sharp nose and thin, serious lips. When Orphila entered the courtroom, 276 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: I imagine his celebrity brought the room to a hush. 277 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: The undisputed expert on arsenic poisoning stood before the judge 278 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: and the jury. He had tested the remains of Charles Lafarge, 279 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: all the organs that his team had managed to extract 280 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: from the decomposing corpse. They had done the Marsh test 281 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: and done it correctly. Before Orphila offered his conclusion as 282 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: to the fate of Charles Lafarge, he gave the court 283 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: some context. Over years of experimentation, he had determined that 284 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: human bones contain trace amounts of arsenic, and that sometimes 285 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: arsenic can also be found leeched from the soil, and 286 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: so he had been extraordinarily careful in his analysis of 287 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: Charles LaFarge's body to ensure that his samples taken from 288 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: the organs were unspoiled and did not include any bone 289 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: or soil. So what was the conclusion arsenic meteu Orphila 290 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: had found arsenic in Charles Lfarge's organs half a milligram, 291 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: an amount so tiny it could have only ever been 292 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: detected using the marsh test. The courtroom erupted. The defense 293 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: scrambled and tried to call one of Orphila's rivals, a 294 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: man named Francois vincent Resbail, to the courtroom to offer 295 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: a counter annal, but Rispel didn't make it in time. 296 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: He arrived at the court four hours after the jury 297 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: had reached its verdict. Orphila's testimony sealed Marie LaFarge's fate, 298 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: and she was found guilty of the murder of her 299 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: husband and sentenced to life imprisonment with hard labor, though 300 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: the labor would later be commuted. Marie Lafarge, twenty four 301 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: years old, would spend the next twelve years of her 302 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: life in prison. In eighteen fifty two, she became ill 303 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: with tuberculosis, and she was released from prison on the 304 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: orders of Napoleon the Third. She died a few months later. 305 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: That was forensic toxicology and action. Orphila had found arsenic, 306 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: and so it meant that Marie Lafarge was guilty. But 307 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: did it and did Orphila actually find evidence that Charles 308 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: Defarge was poisoned? The question was a little more complicated 309 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: than it had appeared that day in the courtroom. The 310 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: chemist Francois Raspel, possibly guilty over arriving at court a 311 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: few hours too late to offer his own testimony, would 312 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: spend years publicly challenging Orphila and criticizing both his methods 313 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: and his results. Orphila had claimed he found half a 314 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: milligram of arsenic in Charles Lefarge's remains. Respel determined that 315 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: amount to be a hundredth of a milligram, and there 316 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: were a number of points in Orpheli's testing where a 317 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: small amount of arsenic might have snuck in. For Arphela's 318 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: final test, the one where he had found the arsenic, 319 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: he had sent one of his assistants to a neighboring 320 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: town to get some reagent. That reagent hadn't been tested 321 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: for arsenic before it was used in the experiment, and 322 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: it's conceivable that it was contaminated. As for Orphila's claim 323 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: that human bones naturally contain arsenic, well they don't. Actually, 324 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: we know that now, and the fact that Orphela believed 325 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: that they did indicates that there was some point in 326 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: his earlier testing procedure where phantom arsenic was able to 327 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: sneak in. Two years after Marie LeFarge was found guilty, 328 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: another woman, Madame Lacoste, was accused of murder by arsenic. 329 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: Of course, the famous Marie LeFarge case was the closest 330 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: point of comparison, and the courts invited a chemist named 331 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: Monsieur Chevalier to testify. Chevalier had been one of two 332 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: of Orphela's assistants during the Lafarge investigation. For this new trial, 333 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: a juryman asked Chevalier was the quantity of arsenic found 334 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: by you in this case equal to that which served 335 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: as a ground for conviction in the LeFarge case. Chevalier 336 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: thought for a while and then answered, extremely carefully, I 337 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: cannot reply to a question so put, he said, finally, 338 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: what was said to be the poison found in the 339 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: body of Lafarge was imponderable. It was so infinitesimal that 340 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: it could not fulfill the conditions of a standard comparison 341 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: when we use words more or less. The jury was dumbfounded. 342 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: They declared Madame Lacoste innocent. Marie LeFarge heard the news 343 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: of Madame Lacoste's exoneration while she was still in prison. Allegedly, 344 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: Marie remarked, my ghost has saved her. Whether or not 345 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: Marie LeFarge actually was guilty of murdering her husband, and 346 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: whether or not Charles Lafarge was even poisoned with arsenic 347 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: are both mysteries that, barring new information or a historian 348 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: with Sherlock holmesy in powers of deductive reasoning, will probably 349 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: elude us. But in the aftermath of the trial and 350 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: in recent years, a number of theories emerged. The theory 351 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: I find interesting, although again not necessarily convincing beyond a 352 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. But interesting is that Charles Lafarge actually was poisoned, 353 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: but by his clerk, Denny Barbier. According to some sources, 354 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: Charles Lafarge, our victim, had been somewhat of a more 355 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: nefarious character than he had been made out to be. 356 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: In the wake of his death, some claim that Lafarge 357 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: wasn't merely an iron master who fell into debts, but 358 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: that he was also a forger, as in he used 359 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: forged bills of exchange in order to procure advances. His 360 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: right hand man in that endeavor was Denie Barbier. According 361 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: to one unverified claim, when Barbier heard that Charles was 362 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: close to death, he was heard saying, now I shall 363 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: be master here. If he had been working on shady 364 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: dealings with his boss and was nervous that those crimes 365 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: might be revealed, it's plausible he had a motive to 366 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: do away with Charles LeFarge, especially when he imagined he 367 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: might be the one to take over Charles's business after 368 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: he died. Barbier also had access to all of Charles's 369 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: food and drink, and he had been the one who 370 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: procured the arsenic that Marie had asked for to kill 371 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: the rats. Barbier easily could have kept some or all 372 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: of it for himself and given Marie something harmless in 373 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: its place. The Edinburgh Review published an examination in eighteen 374 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: forty two, two years after the trial, laying out the 375 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: case against Barbier. According to them, Denis Barbier quote lived 376 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: by forgery and was the accomplice of LeFarge in some 377 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: very shady transactions by which that unhappy man sought to 378 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: cover his insolvency. Barbier had also conceived a violent hatred 379 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: against Madame LeFarge, as her presence was likely to hinder 380 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: his nefarious practices and weaken his hold over his companion 381 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: in crime end quote. They continue to explain that Barbier 382 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: had unrestricted access to everywhere in the house that Arsenic 383 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: was found. If Denis Barbier committed this foul crime, they concluded, 384 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: he escaped without any punishment save that which would be 385 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: inflicted by an outraged conscience. In the end, the marsh test, 386 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: exact as it might have been, simply couldn't tell us everything. 387 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: That's the story of Marie LeFarge, but keep listening. After 388 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: a brief sponsor break to hear a little bit more 389 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: about how the legacy of science in courtrooms continues to 390 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 1: affect us today. In two thousand and four, USA Today 391 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: reported on a phenomenon that seemed to be affecting the 392 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: ways juries rendered their verdicts. It's called the CSI effect, 393 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 1: and according to researchers, what was happening was that the 394 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: average person doing jury duty started watching a lot more TV, 395 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: specifically a lot more crime TV like CSI, and in 396 00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: shows like CSI, DNA and other forensic evidence is ubiquitous 397 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: and air tight. The CSI effect, then, is the alleged 398 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: phenomenon that jurors expect forensic evidence in any trial, and 399 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: when it's not present, either because it wasn't available or 400 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: prosecutors thought it wasn't necessary, jurors are more likely to 401 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: acquit even when there's plenty of other compelling evidence that 402 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: someone committed a crime. The CSI effect has definitely informed 403 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: the way that legal professionals today build their cases, but 404 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: it's also just as possible that watching crime television shows 405 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: might be more responsible for jurors wanting to convict more often. 406 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: Professor Tom Tyler at NYU argues that television shows offer 407 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: stories of catharsis and closure of justice being done, which 408 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: jurors would try to replicate with a conviction. Tyler suggests 409 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: that increased rates of acquittal might have to do not 410 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: with police on television, but with the public's decreasing confidence 411 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: in police in the real world. Noble Blood is a 412 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. 413 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: Noble Blood is created and hosted by me Dana Schwartz, 414 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: with additional writing and researching by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, 415 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The show is 416 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: edited and produced by Noemi Griffin and rima Il Kahali, 417 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers Aaron Manke, 418 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 419 00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 420 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.