1 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,159 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeart Radio. I'm 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Any and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: episode for you about cream of Tartar, Yes, Yes, which 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: has been on our list since the very very beginning. 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And it's really scientifically and historically, not like complicated, 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: but complex, like there's a lot there's a lot of 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: moving pieces in this one and so um, so we've 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: been putting it off, but um but this is like 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: sort of we were asked to do a holiday episode 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: and this was the topic that we chose because we 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: were weird nerds. We were we weren't like, oh man, 12 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: let's do gingerbread cookies, although I mean we have already 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: done gingerbread, so we couldn't. But but at any rate, yeah, 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: like we didn't do something like that, Like we were like, oh, 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: let's talk about cream of tartar, very important into baking 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, And so this gout kicks started because 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: super producer Andrew was like, hey, have you heard about 18 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: cream of charge? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah that too, right right. 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: It was this dovetail yes, and I was like, been 20 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: on my list since forever because every time I tell 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: somebody what cream of tartar is? That same moment happens 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: where they're like, are you kidding? Now? I would never 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: joke about wine residue. That's a really useful kitchen chemical. 24 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: I would never um. But I believe I've told this 25 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: story several times on the show, and I'll tell it again. 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: I was in college when I realized baking powder and 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: baking soda were not interchangeable things. And a good friend 28 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: of mine, who I would say had her life more 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: together than I did, told me about well, you know, 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: cream of tartar, which she told me and we're going 31 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: to talk about this, but she told me it was 32 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: a difference between them as one has cream of tartar 33 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: and one doesn't. And I was like, we was a 34 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: cream of tartar. Oh no, my whole life is a lie. 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: But it was a very big learning experience for me. 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: So I think one of the first topics I put 37 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: on our list was baking powder, baking soda, cream tartar. Yeah, 38 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: I'm It's something that I was fairly familiar with from 39 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: a fairly young age because my grandmama lou um Uh, 40 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: taught me to to to bake when I was growing 41 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: up and things like snickerdoodles. Not a lot of baking 42 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: recipes still call for cream of tartar specifically, Like a 43 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: lot of the time, baking powder is the thing that's 44 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: used as a leavener. But uh and and cream of 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: tartar isn't usually involved in baking powder anymore. We're talking 46 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: more about all of this, uh and throughout the outline. 47 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: But um, but but yeah, but in snickerdoodles specifically, uh, 48 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: cream of tartar is usually in the ingredients list. And 49 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: so yeah, so I've kind of always had it in 50 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: my life, but only pretty recently learned about it, I 51 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: think when we did our Muffins episode. Yep um. This 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: episode is also super fun because of just the breadth 53 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: of different other episodes we get to refer to in it. Yes, 54 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: I was trying to phrase it to Lauren earlier, but 55 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: it's kind of an episode that tells the story of 56 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: so many other things through its not being there or 57 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: being there but being the side character. Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, 58 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: oh yeah, cream of charter. I guess this brings us 59 00:03:53,480 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: to our question, cream of tartar? What is it? Well, 60 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: a cream of tartar is a compound that has all 61 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: kinds of useful properties in cooking because it's basically just 62 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: a mild acid that comes in a powdered crystal format. Um. 63 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: It's a white powder found in little canisters and either 64 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: the spicyle sometimes the baking aisle of stores. It shows 65 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: up in recipes for baked goods and desserts and other 66 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: things that incorporate a whipped cream or whipped eggs. Also 67 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: in candies and in boiled vegetables and in cleaning products. UM. 68 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: It's like lemon juice or vinegar in powder form, but 69 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: without other flavors involved. It's like a it's like a 70 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: food grade multitool or or I guess to your point 71 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: a minute ago, it's like a. It's like a really 72 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: good character actor that you kind of almost don't notice 73 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: until you realize that they're so critical. Yes one THO 74 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: exactly love it. Um. The chemical name is potassium by 75 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: tartrate um or potassium hydrogen tartrate so um. SO. It's 76 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: the potassium salt form of an acid called tartaric acid, 77 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: which is a carbacilic acid which are commonly occurring at 78 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: typically weak acids and uh creep of tartar is actually 79 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: a byproduct of the wine industry. M okay, so Twotaric 80 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: acid is a compound that's found in grapes. Um. It's 81 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: one of the things that makes them tart. When it 82 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: is partially neutralized, like like on the pH scale, UM, 83 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: it can form up with potassium, which is also found 84 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: in grapes, to create molecules of potassium by tartrate. And 85 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: these are pretty soluble in warm water based solutions, but 86 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: will crystallize and settle out of the solution at cooler 87 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: temperatures like UM, like below twenty celsius or seventy fahrenheit UM, 88 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: and especially below like ten celsius or fifty fahrenheit, which 89 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: hey is totally cellar temperature to like cold cellar temperature 90 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: all right. In the wine industry, um these uh, these, 91 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: these crystals are sometimes called wine crystals or wine diamonds. Um. 92 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: You may have noticed them yourself at the bottom of 93 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: a bottle of wine or um like in a crunchy 94 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: little layer on the bottom of the cork when you 95 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: open it. Yeah. Um. They're harmless in wine and like 96 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: not an indicator that anything has gone bad. Some wine 97 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: experts actually like seeing them because it's a sign that 98 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: a wine hasn't been like processed too much. Uh. But 99 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: that's not how it's manufactured. Like, no one is like 100 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: filtering finished bottles of wine or like scraping them off 101 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: of corks um and then sending them into some kind 102 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: of that's not that's not what's going on. UM. So 103 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: when you make wine, UM, you let the juice or 104 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: must ferment and sometimes age in a vat or barrel 105 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: with yeast. Then you separate the liquid wine from the 106 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: LEAs the like the dead yeast in any sediments by 107 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: straining or draining as you bottle it. Usually um. You 108 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: can see our Champagne episode for more on that UM. 109 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: And I know, right, serious throwback um. And so what 110 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: you're left with is those leaves, some some dead yeast, 111 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: and other sediments probably including like sort of a bunch 112 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: of potassium by tar trade um, that can then be 113 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: washed out and sent off and purified and powdered and sold. Um. 114 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: The raw stuff that's sent off is sometimes called our 115 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: goal by the way. Okay, yeah I didn't read about 116 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: why I didn't look into that, but okay, so so 117 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: so potassium by tar trade or cream of tartar Um 118 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: is just incredibly useful because it is mildly acidic and 119 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't have other flavors, and it's a dry powder, 120 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: so you don't have water molecules in there like mucking 121 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: anything up. Um. So yeah, let's go. This is like 122 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: a long list of uses. Um, it's amazing. Uh Okay. 123 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: One that we've talked about on the show before, and 124 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: as we alluded to in our intro um uh during 125 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: our discussion on muffins um, is that it is a 126 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: part of leaveners for baked goods. Leaveners are the stuff 127 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: that you add to help make to bake goods nice 128 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: and light and fluffy. Generally, these are compounds that will 129 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: create carbon dioxide bubbles in your dough, giving it a 130 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: physical lift and expansion um, and then that the heat 131 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: of your oven sets the dough around those bubbles, nice, 132 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: light and airy um. The most popular leavener modern lye 133 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: is baking powder, which is made up of baking soda, 134 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: which is sodium bicarbonate um plus some kind of dry 135 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: form of acid, and when this mixture is subjected to moisture, 136 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,119 Speaker 1: the two will react with each other to produce carbon dioxide. Bubbles. Um. Originally, 137 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: cream of tartar was the acid used in baking powder. 138 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: These days it's more likely to be something cheaper UM, 139 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: but recipes will still sometimes call for um cream of 140 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: tartar plus baking soda, or maybe for baking powder plus 141 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: an extra kick a cream of tartar, depending on what 142 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: people are going for, and that is partially because of 143 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: cream of tartars other cool properties UM like, for example, 144 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: if you are whipping egg whites or cream um, the 145 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: acidity of cream of tartar what will help the proteins 146 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: in there unfurl and then stick together softly around the 147 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: air bubbles that you're whipping in without without sticking together 148 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: so hard that they go rigid and then push water out. 149 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: You might have had that happen to you when when 150 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: you're whipping eggs or cream um. You know it's expanding 151 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: and peeking up nicely, and then suddenly it breaks and 152 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: goes lumpy and wet. UM. A little bit of cream 153 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: tartar can help prevent that. Cream of tartar can also 154 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: make cakes and meringues look brighter and wider UM because well, 155 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: we'll a because the acidity and it will turn a 156 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: pigment in flour clear instead of sort of parchment colored 157 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: UM and b because of that whipping thing. Because you 158 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: can you can get the air bubbles in a batter 159 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: or in a meringue smaller UM, which means that the 160 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: particles of cake or meringue around them are going to 161 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: be smaller, which means that they reflect light just a 162 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: little differently and it looks brighter. That's so cool, I know. 163 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: Um okay. But furthermore, um, cream of tartar affects the 164 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: texture of sugar. UM. Sugar meaning sucros um likes being 165 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: in a crystal state and it likes clumping up. Um. 166 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: But if you're making like a like a smooth textured 167 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: candy or a shiny icing or like nice chewy baked goods, 168 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: you want sugar to be liquid or at the very 169 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: least like not clumpy. UM. Cream of tartar helps because 170 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: it breaks sucros down into glucose and fructose, which do 171 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: not like crystallizing and clumping up as much. And because 172 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: cream of tartar is lightly acidic, it can help some 173 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: kinds of colorful produce retain their color when you steam 174 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: or boil them. UM. Basically because in certain vegs that 175 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: those pigments are stored in acidic pockets. Um. So making 176 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: the whole environment that you're cooking them in more acidic 177 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: means that they can stay put and they're not trying 178 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: to balance out with the rest of the stuff, with 179 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: the rest of the water or whatever. Um. Also it's 180 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: great for cleaning, um, for cleaning the blackening off of 181 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: like aluminum and other metals, and for lifting rust um 182 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: and helping clear drains when when mixed with different stuff. 183 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: Google the cleaning uses. This is ostensibly a food show. Um. 184 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: And I've I've already talked a lot, so yeah, yeah, 185 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: well you must continue, lareen. We need to know about 186 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: the nutrition. You're generally not consuming enough cream of tartar 187 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: to make a difference. Um. And if you're thinking about 188 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: doing so, don't because potassium is one of the things 189 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: that like your body needs, but that you also should 190 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: not have too much of. So yeah, yeah, generally considered safe. 191 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: But but don't just eat cream of tartar. That's not 192 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: what it's for. No. Uh no. I did think it 193 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: was really interesting in reading this how many chefs had 194 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: such strong opinions about why you should be using a 195 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: cream of tartar because it has kind of you know, 196 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: we couldn't really find a lot of numbers, but I 197 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: would say based on these articles I read from chefs, 198 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: they were they were making the case like this is 199 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: the ingredients you need to use it, but he's using yeah. Yeah, yeah. 200 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: It's got a rep for being like a little bit 201 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: old fashioned. UM. However, okay, so so I don't have 202 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: firm numbers about it, but all of the like market 203 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: reports that I didn't spend thousands of dollars on UM, 204 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: the summaries we're we're indicating that it's still quite a 205 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: popular product, especially on an industrial level, and that furthermore, 206 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: um its use is growing as the growth of baked 207 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: goods in places that are not Europe and North America continues. Yes, yes, 208 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: it was interesting how many things were like you can't 209 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: substitute cream of tartar in this, Like sneaker doodles was 210 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: the big point it kept. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but 211 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: because um, um, if you've ever had like a really 212 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: good sneaker doodle, like it's got like a tiny bit 213 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: of tartness to it, and that's that's what that is. Yeah, yeah, 214 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: so cool. Well, yeah, we don't really have any numbers 215 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: other than these kind of vague understandings. But I did 216 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: see this thing. Cream of charter was huge in terms 217 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: of revolutionizing modern baking, which we're going to talk about, 218 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: but also in our understanding of three D molecular structures. Yeah, yeah, 219 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: and uh, there will be more on that in the 220 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: history section. But first we are going to get into 221 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: a quick break for word from our sponsors, and we're back. 222 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. And you can see 223 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: our many wine episodes we've done. As you said, Lauren, 224 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: there's also a bunch of other things that this one 225 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: touches on. I would say wine episodes pretty big for sure. Yeah, 226 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: and the history of this one is a little all 227 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: over the place, um, as we also mentioned, but here 228 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: we go. We're gonna try. So. The earliest known evidence 229 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: of cream of tartar was a residue you discovered on 230 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: seven thousand year old wine barrels located in what is 231 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: now Iran. But it's safe to guess that as long 232 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: as we've been making wine, this waste product of wine 233 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: making has been around. Um. But yeah, for much of history, 234 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: cream of tartar was pretty much seen. It's just that 235 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: a waste product, and it was ignored. People weren't writing 236 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: about it, they weren't studying it, didn't care about it. Um. 237 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't until the fourteenth century that the word tartar 238 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: appeared on our written record in terms of the wine 239 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: deposits we're talking about today, deriving from the tutark in 240 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: tutark acid. I've always been I've always struggled with that pronunciation, 241 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: but I hope that's right. The cream part, and cream 242 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: of tartar is still a bit of a mystery. Everybody 243 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: was like the closest thing I read was people think 244 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: it's because of the color, yeah, or like it makes 245 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: things textually creamy. I don't. I don't know. Um. Although 246 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: one more slightly mysterious atomalogy note here um The crystals 247 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: harvested from wine barrels or or bottles were at one 248 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: point known by the noun bees wing because they're so 249 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: like delicate and clear. I love that beautiful. I'm not 250 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: sure if it was during this time period or later on, 251 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: but at any rate, bees wing beast being it is fantastic. 252 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: Some evidence suggests that cream of tartar, at least some 253 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: form of it, was possibly fairly available in medieval Europe. 254 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: Um Chaucer may have mentioned cream of tartar in the 255 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: Canterbury Tales. Here's the translation of that clay made with 256 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: horse or man's hair and oil of tartar crystallized alum 257 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: yeast unfermented malt, and our goal. M Yeah, Chaucer was 258 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: was writing about some like shady alchemists during this bit. Um. 259 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: I'm not sure where the tartar and our goal came 260 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: into play in the whole thing. I'm I'm unfamiliar with Chaucer. 261 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: If anyone is more familiar, I let us know. Yeah, yeah, um. 262 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: A seventeen sixty six treatise purported that tar treats were 263 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: useful in a whole host of medicinal applications, including gout 264 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: and including which there's an illustration you can look upon 265 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: in the case of a bite of a quote. Prodigious 266 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: mad cat. Oh, prodigious mad cat. I mean that's prodigious. 267 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: I feel like that's most cats I've ever met. But 268 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: I know that's like, that's like does anyone does anyone 269 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: else follow Billy the cat who has the sound buttons 270 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: and like and like their owner made one that's just 271 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: as mad and like and so this cat will sometimes 272 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: sit there and just mad mad mad mad mad mad 273 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: madman Like that's a move. That's a mood right there 274 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: anyway anyway, uh, cream of chartar was frequently used as 275 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: a laxative during this time as well. Um. When it 276 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: comes to our modern use of cream of tartar, it 277 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: is a tale of a lot of scientists and chemists 278 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: and Baker's um. One such person was Swedish chemist C. W. 279 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: Shiel Uh in seventeen sixty eight, and basically he combined 280 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: the leftover solids from making wine with hot water to 281 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: dissolve the potassium by tart trait. Then the water evaporated 282 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: out and allowed for these crystals are wine diamonds to form, 283 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: and from there they were purified, packaged and sold. Still 284 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: the basic way that we're doing it, yep, yep. French 285 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: physicist Jean Baptiste Pio nailed down cream of tartar's physical 286 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: properties in eighteen thirty two, and then Louis Pasteur. Louis 287 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: Pasteur grew really interested in wine making and started studying 288 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: the compound left behind by why making. In Yeah, as 289 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: we talked about in our Types of Milk episode of 290 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: of all references. He was hired by a winement manufacturer 291 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: and then later Napoleon the Third to look into y 292 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: wines sometimes go sour. The answer is bacteria, and that's 293 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: why we have pasteurization today. But right, so he was 294 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: studying wine and um and this goes back to that 295 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: three D molecule thing um because al right, he was 296 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: studying one and noticed that lab created tutaric acid behaves 297 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: a little bit differently than natural tutaric acid when it 298 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: crystallizes into salt forms um like, it produces differently shaped crystals. 299 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: And so between this work and a couple other chemists 300 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: work around this time, we figured out that molecules are 301 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: in fact three dimensional, not not two dimensional as it 302 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: was previously kind of assumed. M hm. I'm telling you 303 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: it's so cool. You never know where their research is 304 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: gonna go. Right, And not long after this cream of 305 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: tartar became a popular ingredient in French cooking, and it 306 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: really really did change the world of baking um, as 307 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: did a lot of innovations and ingredients, processes and technologies 308 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: coming out around this time. Because it's like Industrial Revolution time, 309 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: so a lot of things were happening and So, for instance, 310 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: the one recipe for a common cake featured in the 311 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: book Early American Cookery read this way. Um, the flowers 312 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: should be dried before the fire, sifted and weighed, currants 313 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: washed and dried, raisins stoned, sugar pounded and rolled fine 314 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 1: and sifted, and all spices after being well dried at 315 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: the fire, pounded and sifted. So it was complicated basically, 316 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: just a lot, just a lot of steps and a 317 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: lot of steps to help create the fine texture and 318 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: to allow the ingredients to have some lift without the 319 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: chemical leveners that were used to today. Right, And that's 320 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: something we've talked about several times on this show. When 321 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: it comes to early desserts or our breads or grain 322 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: brace products in general, they were often dry or crumbly 323 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: or hard and not what we would think of today 324 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: when you think of a cake, for instance. Um, and 325 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: so if you wanted something lighter and fluffier, you had 326 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: to really plan ahead and put some serious elbow grease 327 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: into it too. Yeah, just just just really really whip 328 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: physically whip air into eggs or into cream or whatever 329 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: it is that you're doing. Yeah, yes, uh, And so 330 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: bakers were really determined to speed this process along, to 331 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: make it easier, and by the eighteenth century bakers were 332 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: already looking for simpler ways to get the rising effects 333 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: they wanted much more quickly. Uh and yeah, they were 334 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: beating air into eggs. They were using pearl ash or potash, 335 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: which we've discussed before. However, pearl ash was tricky, caustic 336 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: didn't have the best odor always yeah or never because 337 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: because as as part of the process it also it 338 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: does it will create carbon dioxide bubbles, but it also 339 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: gives off ammonia. Um, it's it's it's actually smelling salts 340 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: is what parlash is so um so so right, so 341 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: so ammonia is not generally what people are going for 342 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: as a flavor agent in their desserts, and so right 343 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: not not not ideal, no, no, no no. Um. The 344 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: game changed in this whole baking arena when baking soda 345 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: was introduced in and it definitely improved things, but still 346 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: it wasn't the most controllable process because it required adding 347 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: in an acid, most often the cheap and easily accessible 348 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: sour milk. But this wasn't the most predictable combination, primarily 349 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: because the cidity level of the milk varied UM, and 350 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: it impacted amounts that should be put in cooking times 351 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: things like that, in ways that were very very hard 352 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: to determine. UM. Also, in the eighteen forties we got 353 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: the first precursor to baking powder, courtesy of English chemist 354 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: Alfred Bird. So to make this product, Bird combined baking 355 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: soda with cream of tartar, which again yes, is an 356 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: acidic powder, essentially so so that the process could be 357 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: more controlled. However, there was still a problem at the time. 358 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: Cream of tartar was largely the byproduct of European wine 359 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: and further depended on the Great Harvest, meaning that outside 360 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: of Europe it had to be imported and was pretty 361 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: expensive and out of reach for folks like poor Americans 362 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: for instance. But again, a chemist solve this problem and 363 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: thoughts to fix it. In eighteen fifty six, even Norton Horshford, 364 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: who I hope I didn't but um filed a patent 365 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: for the first modern baking powder and later went on 366 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: to open the first modern US chemistry lab at Harvard UM. Yeah, 367 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: he did this all in part after falling in love 368 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: with the student of his being told he needed to 369 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: get better prospects by her father and traveling to Germany 370 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: to study chemistry. Yeah, that's the story anyway. A lot 371 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: of back and forth regarding baking powder followed, sometimes called 372 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: the Baking Powder Wars, but that is a future episode anyway. 373 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: Horsford's baking powder replaced the cream of tartar with calcium 374 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: acid phosphate. He filed for a patent that year for 375 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: the process of manufacturing it, so even if cream of 376 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: tartar wasn't involved, it was still a key force in 377 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: shaping the baking landscape. Sure, yeah, m hm, and another 378 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: key force. There's actually a whole book about this that 379 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: I really want to read. American women who saw cake 380 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: as an avenue for experimentation that wasn't necessarily obligation but 381 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: of pleasure, Like how can I make this lighter, fluffier, tastier, 382 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, more special? Yeah. Eight seen nine three marks 383 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: the first time cream of tartar was advertised as an 384 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: egg white stabilizer as opposed to a baking powder type 385 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: substance or substitute, which is interesting. Tartaris Gonzalo Castello, which 386 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: is a company located in Spain that now processes about 387 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: of the world's cream of tartar got started in nineteen 388 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: o seven. A nine sixty one New York Times article 389 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: offered tips for the perfect meringue, one of which was 390 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: using cream of charter And Yeah, while modern day baking 391 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: powders don't often rely on cream of tartar anymore, the 392 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: legacy is still there, I guess, Like I keep trying 393 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: to make this point, but it's like the fingerprint of 394 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: cream of tartar is everywhere. Yeah, and it's still beloved 395 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: by many chefs and cooks and a lot of recipes. 396 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, still going cream of tartar absolutely, absolutely, And 397 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: I yeah, I didn't know a lot of this before 398 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: we did this three ing and it's so cool. I'm like, 399 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: oh man, it is so I feel and I feel 400 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: like a little bit. I'm like, I'm like, um, part, 401 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: pardon me everyone who's ever taught me of a recipe? Like, 402 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: why did you not mention that I could avoid collapsing 403 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: my heck and eggs by putting a little cream tartar 404 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: in there? Oh? You you are doing that for hopefully 405 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: some listeners right now. You're sharing your knowledge, and I 406 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: would love to hear from listeners like what recipes do 407 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: you use cream of tartar. Yeah yeah, what are like 408 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: the ones that you busted out for You're like, this 409 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: is the important one. Here we go, yes, because it 410 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: is big during holiday baking time. I think every recipe 411 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: I have for cream of tartar is a holiday baking 412 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: type recipe. Yes, well, send those messages in, but for now, 413 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: I think that's what we have to say about cream 414 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: of tartar it is. We do have some listener mail 415 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: for you, though, and we're going to get into that 416 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: as soon as we get back from one more quick break. 417 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: Our word from our sponsors, and we're back thank you sponsored, Yes, 418 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: thank you, and we're back with yes, thank you. It 419 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: was like bubbles and holiday like lights. I don't know, okay, yeah, yeah, 420 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I did want to mention we are working 421 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: on a listener mail episode. Um yeah, so if you've 422 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: been holding off for some reason, um, but you but 423 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: you really want you really want to mm hmm. This 424 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: is the this is the time. It's the time, it 425 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: is and when we have some exciting messages to share 426 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: and gifts that we have received that I can't wait 427 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: to talk about. Yes, yes, but in the meantime, let's 428 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: talk about hook but Kelly wrote, I was listening to 429 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: the Hot Chocolate episode and had to pass along a recommendation. 430 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: Still A Parks has a fantastic recipe for hot cocoa 431 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: mix on Serious Eats. It uses malt powder, a mix 432 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: of chocolate, and quote toasted sugar, one of her signature 433 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: ingredients to make a delicious homemade cocoa mix. You can 434 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: add a little mint extract two if that's your thing 435 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: and it makes a great homemade gift. You can wrap 436 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 1: it up in jars, bags, packets, et cetera, and decorate 437 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: it however you like. I hope you get a chance 438 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: to try it out, even if you make it mostly 439 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: to give away and just try a small sample. Oh 440 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: that's so cool goodness. I don't think I've ever used 441 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: a malt powder speaking of a future episode, right, Oh, 442 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: and I love I love a malt powder. Okay, It's 443 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: like my favorite milkshake flavor. Okay, so yeah, yeah, yeah, 444 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: totally um. Oh and seriously, it's always does great stuff. 445 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: They the writers and editors over there just doing a 446 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: bang up job. But continuing with the hot chocolate advice, 447 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: Stephanie wrote, I just listened to the Hot Chocolate episode 448 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: and I had to share my favorite hot chocolate topping. 449 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: Real marshmallows are great. Dehydrated mini marshmallows are great. Whipped 450 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: cream is great, but none of them hold a candle 451 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: to a scoop of marshmallow fluff. As a New England girl, 452 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: I do have a general affinity for fluff. But even 453 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: if you don't like it on a sandwich, you gotta 454 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: try it on hot chocolate. It melts into this gorgeous, 455 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: shiny white pool that covers the whole top of your mug, 456 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: so you get some in every sip. I can't recommend 457 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: it enough. Wow, this is one of those things. When 458 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: I read it, I was like, how have I never 459 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: thought of this? Right? So simple but so cool. Oh 460 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: and I do love marshmallow fluff. I the first day 461 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: that I had like a fluff nutter sandwich, I was like, 462 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: people can do this. This is within the realm of possibility. 463 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,479 Speaker 1: Like I was like, whole what have I been missing 464 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: my entire life? Um? And it just makes sense, like right, 465 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: because a lot of times you put marshmallows, especially kind 466 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: of the cheaper kind of marshmallows, they don't really melt evenly. 467 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: It's like there's suddenly there there, and then suddenly it's 468 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: all gone. But if you had marshmallow fluff, I feel 469 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: like the consistency would would be better. I think that 470 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: the yeah and the it would be more even every 471 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: sip as you say, it makes sense, it makes sense. 472 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: It's so perfect. I feel like I found that. This 473 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: is like I've I've uncovered a deep mathematic formula. Like 474 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: that's what I feel like it's happened here. Yeah, yeah, 475 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: everything makes sense now. Yes, Well, thank you for as listeners, 476 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for writing in, and if you would like to 477 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: write to as you can or email is hello at 478 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: saborpod dot com. We're also on social media. You can 479 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saber pod 480 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: and we do hope to hear from you. Saber is 481 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio four more podcasts from 482 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio. You can visit the I Heart Radio app, 483 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: Apple Pie Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 484 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. 485 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots 486 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: more good things are coming your way.