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Speaker 1: Personally with The Duelsman starting a new series to officially

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Speaker 1: kick off the new year. I know or a few

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Speaker 1: weeks late, but I did have some news to share

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Speaker 1: with you guys before we got really into twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Many people see the new year as an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: start fresh, try new things, do things they've always wanted,

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Speaker 1: chase dreams. So I have some guests lined up to

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Speaker 1: really hone in on so many of those things. This week,

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Speaker 1: We're starting with Jessica Buchanan, and her story is one

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Speaker 1: that you'll want to hear and then you'll want to

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Speaker 1: read her books. She was kidnapped in Somalia by pirates,

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Speaker 1: held captive, and rescued by Seale Team six, and she's

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Speaker 1: recounting the whole experience as well as how she is

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Speaker 1: now surviving survival. I'm joined this week with Jessica Buchanan,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really excited to share your story because it

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Speaker 1: is a.

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Speaker 2: One with so many twists and turns. Jessica, thanks for

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Speaker 2: joining me much, thanks for having me. I'm excited to

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Speaker 2: be here.

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Speaker 1: Let's get started at the very beginning. I would love

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Speaker 1: for you to paint the picture of who you were

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Speaker 1: until we get to that kind of moment where your

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Speaker 1: life took a drastic turn.

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Speaker 2: Sure, well, I think the easiest place to start is

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Speaker 2: in college. I was getting a teaching degree, and like

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Speaker 2: after my first year, I went on a teaching trip

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Speaker 2: to Honduras and got bit by the oh I can

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Speaker 2: travel and work at the same time. Bug. And then

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Speaker 2: as I went through like my education courses, really got

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Speaker 2: involved in we're young and so idealistic and naive and

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Speaker 2: thinking that I could go out and save the world,

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Speaker 2: and so got very interested in some of the things

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Speaker 2: that were happening in East Africa, and did a service

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Speaker 2: trip and almost died on that one, but that's another story.

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Speaker 2: And then I just felt really compelled and connected to

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Speaker 2: continuing work any sufforgum and especially like in the Northern

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Speaker 2: Uganda South Sudan area. And so I had to finish

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Speaker 2: up my degree and had an opportunity to do my

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Speaker 2: student teaching at an international school in there Robi, Kenya,

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Speaker 2: which was not what I had in mind. Was like

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Speaker 2: fancy private school and it was beautiful and wonderful, but

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be like getting my hands dirty and

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But they offered me a job

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Speaker 2: and it was my best way in to stay on

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Speaker 2: the continent, so I took it. It was great. I

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Speaker 2: started teaching fourth grade, loved it. About two months into

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Speaker 2: my teaching contract, I'm out with a bunch of my

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Speaker 2: teacher friends one night. I always say it was a

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Speaker 2: trashy night club, because it really was. It was just

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Speaker 2: like blowing off steam and having a good time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a bunch of teachers who were doing stuff

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Speaker 1: and you wanted to tidd.

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Speaker 3: We're young.

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Speaker 2: We're in this amazing exotic place, and so we're dancing

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Speaker 2: and I see this cute guy across the room and

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Speaker 2: he looks up at me. He's on his phone, and

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Speaker 2: I wave him over and he ignores me. Actually he

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Speaker 2: laughs at me and looks down again, and I thought, no,

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Speaker 2: you didn't, I don't think so he looks up again

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Speaker 2: and I wave him over again a little bit more

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Speaker 2: like forcefully. Then he comes over and introduces himself. I

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Speaker 2: think his name is Oric, and he tells me he's

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Speaker 2: from Sweden, and I'd never met anybody from Sweden, so

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Speaker 2: Oric seems like a likely name that sounds sweedish to me.

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Speaker 2: He was a terrible dancer, so I was like, how

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Speaker 2: about me? You just go talk. And so we went

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Speaker 2: and got a drink and we talked for four hours

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Speaker 2: street And turns out his name is Eric, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't know that until he wrote like that. Or actually

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Speaker 2: now every once in a while I call him Oric

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Speaker 2: when I'm mad. That was like twenty years ago, so

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Speaker 2: we've been talking ever since. And so people always ask me,

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Speaker 2: how does a school teacher who grew up in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a cornfield, Ohio end up working in a

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Speaker 2: place like Somalia, And I'm like, well, it started with

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Speaker 2: a guy. And so Eric at the time was working

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Speaker 2: for an organization. He was the equivalent of a human

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Speaker 2: rights lawyer essentially, and his job was shifting and he

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Speaker 2: was going to be based up in her Geza, Somaliland,

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Speaker 2: which is the northern part of Somalia where a lot

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Speaker 2: of the NGOs were based in. The UN had a

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Speaker 2: presence there, And so we got married about a year

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Speaker 2: and a half after we met, and I quit my

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Speaker 2: job and moved up there with him.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, then Africa is where the story will take

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Speaker 1: the turn. But I love that you guys met first

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Speaker 1: of all, the fact that you felt compelled one to

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Speaker 1: share education around the world, that's.

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Speaker 3: A really passionate and cool experience. So before we get.

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Speaker 1: To everything else, what was that experience like, because I

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Speaker 1: imagine that's not only fun and amazing, but also really

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Speaker 1: eye opening.

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Speaker 2: Oh for sure, in so many different ways. Now, if

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Speaker 2: I talk about formal teaching, like again, it was a

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Speaker 2: very different kind of environment. It was kids, diplomat kids.

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Speaker 2: I think we had sixty four countries represented in the school.

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Speaker 2: So I just was exposed to so much diversity, so

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Speaker 2: many different types of ways of doing things, religions, jobs.

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Speaker 2: It was just it was very cool. But on the

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Speaker 2: weekends I would go into Kibor Islam, which is one

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Speaker 2: of I think it might be one of the largest

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Speaker 2: slums in the world. It houses about over a million

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Speaker 2: people at least at that time it did, and this

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Speaker 2: is like real poverty. So I would go in and

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Speaker 2: tutor on the weekends. There were some orphanages there, and

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Speaker 2: that is by opening in a completely different way. I

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Speaker 2: just love to help people understand things, So it doesn't

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Speaker 2: really matter what the content is. I've realized throughout the

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Speaker 2: course of my career that content is easy to learn,

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Speaker 2: but trying to communicate it to someone so that they

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Speaker 2: can be empowered and educate themselves is a real skill

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Speaker 2: set and it's when I happen to possess and I've

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Speaker 2: just it was just really you such a cool way

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Speaker 2: to travel and to serve and to make a living.

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Speaker 1: And then on the other side, getting to meet your

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Speaker 1: husband this way and out in the wild.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy. Well, it's so interesting because I

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Speaker 2: was thinking about this the other day my dad. I

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Speaker 2: had a couple boyfriends in college and stuff, and I'd

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Speaker 2: had a very serious relationship before all of that, and

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't find anybody that I like, really clicked with.

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Speaker 2: And my dad said to me, just go out and

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Speaker 2: do what you love. Go to Africa, and the best

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Speaker 2: place for you to meet someone is when you're out

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Speaker 2: doing what you love. And wise words, yeah, very wise words.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I really carry that with me and it was really true.

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Speaker 1: But you were also doing what you love in a club,

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Speaker 1: having fun, Dancy, We can love many things exactly. And

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Speaker 1: you meet your husband who you said, you guys are

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Speaker 1: now obviously married together and you have kids, yes, yep,

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Speaker 1: And is that crazy too? Where you think about that

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Speaker 1: portion of your life and the things that we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about, just that it also brought you him

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Speaker 1: and your kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he is my person, holy and completely and

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Speaker 2: that was very solidified in the moments of what we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about next, like dropping all these cryptic statements.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not meant to you, but I just there's

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Speaker 3: so much backstory to you.

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Speaker 2: That's not all you are.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to make sure I appreciate that we

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Speaker 1: paint the whole story first, so we can get a

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Speaker 1: little bit deeper to the other things. Go ahead and

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Speaker 1: share with us the piece that where everything really took

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Speaker 1: the turn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was working in her Geza. We'd been there.

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Speaker 2: I'd been there for about two and a half years

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Speaker 2: at that point, so this is October twenty eleven. I

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Speaker 2: started out just tutoring and teaching English lessons. We had

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Speaker 2: a compound that we were sharing with other AID workers.

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Speaker 2: There weren't Ethiopian refugees living on the compound because we

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Speaker 2: had the working farm, and there was a little girl there.

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Speaker 2: She was there with her dad. Her name was Muslima

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Speaker 2: and there was no one for her to play with,

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Speaker 2: and so I didn't have a So I was like, hey, basically,

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Speaker 2: do you want to learn some English? And before I

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Speaker 2: knew it. I had an entire dining room full of

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Speaker 2: grown men, women like all these people, and we were

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Speaker 2: playing these English games. It was so much fun. That's

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Speaker 2: the thing about teaching is like you can always find

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Speaker 2: a job, like you can either create it or you

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Speaker 2: can find when. But then word got out that there

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Speaker 2: was a teacher in town, like an actual teacher, and

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Speaker 2: I started doing work for the Ministry of Education in

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Speaker 2: writing curriculum because they were developing their different departments of

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Speaker 2: the government. So that was a real interesting experience. And

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Speaker 2: then I did work for the UN, and then I

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Speaker 2: started doing work for DDG, the Danish d Mining Group,

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Speaker 2: which was the mine action unit of the Danish Refugee Council.

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Speaker 2: So they were a non governmental organization that was really

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Speaker 2: focused on arm violence reduction and community safety. They had

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Speaker 2: a couple of mandates. One of them was to actually

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Speaker 2: go into communities and do mine clearance because a lot

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Speaker 2: of the communities that they worked in were maybe like five, ten,

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Speaker 2: fifteen years post civil war and there were still leftover

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Speaker 2: UXO's or land mines that hadn't been cleared, and so

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Speaker 2: it would leave parts of their communities unpassable, or little

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Speaker 2: kids would be out there playing and see something shiny

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Speaker 2: and not know what it was and pick it up

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Speaker 2: and it could still explode. So our job was to

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Speaker 2: educate these communities on the dangers and also if we

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Speaker 2: were able to clear them. So again back to that, like,

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Speaker 2: I have no experience in mind clearance or any education

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Speaker 2: in that, but it's easy to learn content. And then

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Speaker 2: I was able to apply my teaching pedagogical skills to

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Speaker 2: because when I walked in to one of their trainings,

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Speaker 2: they're like writing English words on a flip chart and

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Speaker 2: you're sitting in this group of people who are nomadic,

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Speaker 2: largely non literate, definitely don't speak English, so nothing you're

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Speaker 2: doing is getting through to them. So we were able

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Speaker 2: to come up with all kinds of creative things to

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Speaker 2: part these messages to help make the community safer for

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Speaker 2: kids especially, And it was so awesome. I got to

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Speaker 2: travel all over East Africa, South Sudian and Northern Uganda.

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Speaker 2: I got to go into parts of Africa that you

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Speaker 2: only see on National Geographic. It was the love of

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Speaker 2: my life. As far as my job was concerned.

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Speaker 3: We were doing important work.

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Speaker 2: I felt like it was important. We weren't like delivering

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Speaker 2: food assistance or giving medical care. Like we weren't emergency relief,

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Speaker 2: but we were doing something that I really felt mattered,

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Speaker 2: and I felt good about my contribution. I didn't think

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Speaker 2: I was out there saving the world, but I did

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Speaker 2: feel like I was doing something meaningful.

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Speaker 3: But in a way you.

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Speaker 1: Were to me, and I'm not sure anybody else whatever,

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Speaker 1: but to me, you were providing education and giving people

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Speaker 1: a way to communicate.

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Speaker 3: Is a lifeline in itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I think for those of us who've

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of time in the like that world,

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Speaker 2: we tend to downplay things.

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Speaker 3: And I'm here to make sure you don't.

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Speaker 2: It's a whole culture. But I appreciate that it did matter,

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Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, it almost cost

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Speaker 2: me my life, but I had been part of my

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Speaker 2: portfolio included traveling down to the southern part of Somalia,

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Speaker 2: so it's very nuanced. But Somalia at the time was

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Speaker 2: divided into three regions. Essentially, we lived in the northern

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Speaker 2: part Somaliland, which was self declared autonomous region, so they

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Speaker 2: had like their own government, but they have never been

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Speaker 2: recognized worldwide as like their own country, but they function

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Speaker 2: that way. So things were much safer and more there

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Speaker 2: was more infrastructure there down in the south, like in Mogadishu.

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Speaker 2: If you ever hear of anything on the news about Somalia,

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Speaker 2: something bad has happened, probably and it's probably happened abount Mogadishue.

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Speaker 2: We had a field office in a town called Galcayo,

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Speaker 2: which was north of Mogadishue. Definitely a little bit more

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Speaker 2: precarious in terms of security, but we followed United Nations

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Speaker 2: security protocols and we had regional security advisors that we

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Speaker 2: followed certain procedures and they gave us permission to go.

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Speaker 2: And my colleague, a Danish gentleman named Paul, who was

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Speaker 2: also a personal friend of mine, managed the operations down there,

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Speaker 2: and part of my job was to go down there

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Speaker 2: and support his team, his education team. But I had

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Speaker 2: canceled the trip. I was supposed to go down there

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Speaker 2: for three day training. I canceled it twice because there

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Speaker 2: were weird security things that were popping up. We weren't

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Speaker 2: the target necessarily, but and again not to get two

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Speaker 2: in the weeds. But the town was divided in half essentially,

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Speaker 2: and it was governed by two opposing clans, and so

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Speaker 2: if you got caught in the crossfire, which is what

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Speaker 2: I was worried about. Something bad could happen, and I

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Speaker 2: just didn't feel like the work that I needed to

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Speaker 2: do necessitated me going down there. So I canceled a

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Speaker 2: couple of times, and then the third time the trip

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Speaker 2: came up, I called him to cancel again, and he

249
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Speaker 2: was like getting sick of it. He was like, look,

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Speaker 2: if you're not going to get down here and do

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Speaker 2: your job, then Wolf, I'm somebody who can. And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I get off the phone and I go talk to Eric.

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Speaker 2: He's been in the area for so long. He knows

254
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Speaker 2: everything there is to know as far from a foreigner perspective.

255
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Speaker 3: And at this point, were you in Eric dating?

256
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Speaker 2: We were married?

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Speaker 3: You were married at this point.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we've been married for about a year, so okayuch

259
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Speaker 2: Newlio ed still and it was you have to make

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Speaker 2: those decisions all the time, right, Like, you have to

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Speaker 2: assess the risk, and there's no there are inherent risks

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Speaker 2: to being in this part of the world. For sure,

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Speaker 2: you take those on. But is there like anything that's

264
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Speaker 2: super obvious. No, My regional security advisors gives me permission

265
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Speaker 2: to go. So I'm like what's the worst that can happen, Right,

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Speaker 2: I'm a school teacher from Ohio. Yeah, I'm just here

267
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Speaker 2: to help. A big deal. You're just being paranoid. So

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Speaker 2: I get on on you and plane I go down.

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Speaker 2: The training is three days. The first two days are

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Speaker 2: in the northern part of the city, and we were

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Speaker 2: actually staying on the compound where we were conducting the training,

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Speaker 2: So I wasn't worried about that because I didn't have

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Speaker 2: to leave. Right. What I was worried about is the

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Speaker 2: third day of the training, because we had to leave

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Speaker 2: that compound and drive in a convoy of armed vehicles

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Speaker 2: across town, essentially to another part of the city. And

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Speaker 2: I knew from like different trainings i'd taken. My organization

278
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Speaker 2: required us to take these heat trainings, their hostile environmental

279
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Speaker 2: awareness trainings, and I knew I was miss vulnerable if

280
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Speaker 2: I was in transit. I get up that morning, I

281
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Speaker 2: remember I didn't sleep like all night long. Paul and

282
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Speaker 2: I had stayed up way too late. We were drinking

283
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Speaker 2: white wine and watching I don't know, led Zeppelin concerts

284
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Speaker 2: or something and just hanging out and I didn't sleep,

285
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Speaker 2: but I'd had these nightmares all night long, and they

286
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,240
Speaker 2: were really vivid, and in my dreams, our compound was

287
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Speaker 2: being stormed by pirates. And I woke up and I

288
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,240
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's just gross and stupid and where

289
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Speaker 2: did that come from? And I got up and went

290
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Speaker 2: to the bathroom, and I remember looking at myself in

291
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 2: the mirror and I sat out loud to my reflection,

292
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Speaker 2: do you want to do this? Your body was yelling,

293
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 2: was just like doing cartwheels.

294
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Speaker 1: Like we're trying to tell you and every way we

295
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Speaker 1: can find a way.

296
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Speaker 2: And all I kept doing was like pragmatizing my way

297
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Speaker 2: out of it. Right, everybody's waiting for me. The trip

298
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Speaker 2: has been planned. I spent all this money to come

299
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Speaker 2: down here. What's the team going to say if I

300
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 2: don't show up, I'm going to lose my job, all

301
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 2: the things. And I just put my head scarf on

302
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 2: and looked at myself one more time in the mirror

303
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 2: and walked out the door. But it was just like

304
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Speaker 2: into a different life.

305
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Speaker 1: So clearly your body's sitting here trying to send a message,

306
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Speaker 1: figuring out something's going on whatever, And so you decided

307
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Speaker 1: to walk out that door that day. Does something happen

308
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 1: in transit like you anticipated or was it when you

309
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Speaker 1: got to the location.

310
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we get across the green line, just fine,

311
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Speaker 2: do the training. Everything's great at this point. Right, it's

312
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Speaker 2: three o'clock in the afternoon, and I'm like, I am

313
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Speaker 2: home free. All I have to do is get from

314
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Speaker 2: here to the guesthouse. I'm leaving first thing in the morning.

315
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Speaker 2: I'm was so paranoid. I'm like chuckling at myself. Jest,

316
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Speaker 2: You're just like whatever, you just need to calm down, right.

317
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 2: And so we're waiting for the convoy of vehicles to

318
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Speaker 2: come and pick us up. And it's so convoy in

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00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 2: that environment looks like land cruisers, like big land cruisers,

320
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Speaker 2: and you've got armed guards like occupying the front in

321
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Speaker 2: the back in case something happened, right, And we have

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Speaker 2: a driver and we're waiting for the convoy to come

323
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Speaker 2: in in our security advisor. It's a Somali guy. His

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Speaker 2: name's Abduruzak. He keeps saying, Okay, it's time to go.

325
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Speaker 2: It's not time to go. Wait, gave on the phone,

326
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Speaker 2: and I think this is weird, but at the same time, whatever,

327
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Speaker 2: let's just get home. And so we get in the car.

328
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Speaker 2: We pull through the gates and we're driving ten minutes.

329
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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm thinking about what I'm out for dinner. Can

330
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 2: I get my workout in? You're home free at this Yeah,

331
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Speaker 2: I forgot to send that one email to my boss.

332
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Speaker 2: Let me do that. I text my husband. He's in

333
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Speaker 2: another part of the country doing trainings, and so I'm like, okay,

334
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, this other vehicle comes

335
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Speaker 2: roaring up on the right side and cuts us off

336
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 2: and stops us to halt. Then mud splashes up all

337
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 2: over the windows in the windshield of the vehicle, and

338
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,679
Speaker 2: we can't see because it had been raining earlier. And

339
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 2: I look up and I just say to the whole car,

340
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Speaker 2: what a jerk who drives like that? And to be fair,

341
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 2: like people drive like crazy, like I'm not part of

342
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,640
Speaker 2: the yeah, but and not part of the world too.

343
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Speaker 2: But it was just like so abrupt. And then all

344
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Speaker 2: of a sudden, I hear somebody banging on the car

345
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Speaker 2: hood with something hard. It turns out to be an

346
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Speaker 2: Ak forty seven, and it sounds like we're being surrounded

347
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,639
Speaker 2: by men who are like shouting, and so Mollie and

348
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,639
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh my god. And then Abdi Rezak, the

349
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,480
Speaker 2: security advisor sitting next to me in the back seat.

350
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Speaker 2: He's on the right side. His door is pulled open,

351
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 2: and there's a very angry man dressed in a police

352
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 2: uniform holding an AK forty seven. He pulls him out,

353
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 2: like straight out of his seat belt and slams into

354
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Speaker 2: the ground, hits him in the head with his gun,

355
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 2: and then gets in the car and puts the gun

356
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 2: to my head and starts screaming at the driver to drive.

357
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking, like, I have two thoughts that are

358
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,879
Speaker 2: like racing through my head. They're very simple and very fundamental.

359
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 2: And the driver's just like taking off. He just starts

360
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,520
Speaker 2: tearing through the town. He's like up on two wheels.

361
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,880
Speaker 2: He slammed back down. He's up on two wheels. Palls

362
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 2: in the front seat, and he's just like begging him,

363
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 2: please stop, please stop, Please slow down. You're gonna kill us,

364
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,639
Speaker 2: because it feels like he's gonna flip the car. And

365
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:54,399
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, this is bad. This is bad. This is

366
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:54,800
Speaker 2: so bad.

367
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: You're probably going through a shock, and yeah, not realizing

368
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 1: why what's going on, Yeah, exactly.

369
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 2: And then I kept thinking, like I don't have anything

370
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 2: to reach for, right, I don't think I've ever seen

371
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 2: a movie or read a book or taken a training

372
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,399
Speaker 2: that is giving me any frame of reference for this

373
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 2: whatever this is is so bad. And then I kept thinking, like,

374
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,199
Speaker 2: even if they stopped and they kicked us out of

375
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 2: the car and we're just being carjacked and they're just

376
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 2: going to take our stuff and let us walk back

377
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,919
Speaker 2: to town, Like something in my life, in my worldview

378
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 2: has shattered, like this belief or this idea truth that

379
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,679
Speaker 2: I cling to that the world is a safe place,

380
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 2: which I realized is a very privileged place to come from,

381
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,440
Speaker 2: but I did feel that way. It has been shattered,

382
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 2: and everything about my life is going to change from

383
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 2: this moment on and how I live it and how

384
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 2: I approach it. And of course that is like in

385
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 2: retrospect that I can articulate that what I was just

386
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 2: thinking in those moments was, oh my god, this is

387
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,919
Speaker 2: so bad. We would drive for hours. We drive, we stop,

388
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 2: They put other people in the car. It's like they

389
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 2: were switching out teams or personnel. We stop, were forced

390
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 2: in other vehicles. At one point, I think Paul and

391
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 2: I are separated, which was really scary because.

392
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: You two were the ones that were taken, Yes, and

393
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: the driver was also taken at one point.

394
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: No, okay, so we got the only two foreigners, if

395
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 2: you will. There were other Somali staff like our team.

396
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 2: They were not harmed and whatever. This of course I

397
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 2: don't know that, like I have no idea. What's now

398
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: you do? Yes times exactly, but that in that moment,

399
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 2: at that time, I'm just At one point, there's a

400
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 2: guy sitting next to me and he's got like a

401
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 2: sheet wrapped around it. He's got like a turbine, and

402
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,680
Speaker 2: he's got a machine gun and like an old machine gun.

403
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 2: It's like really big and long, and it doesn't fit

404
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 2: in the vehicle, so he's hanging outside the vehicle. And

405
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 2: then at one point we stop and I hear a

406
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 2: high pitched voice right behind me, and I think it's

407
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 2: a woman, Like oh that would like why would there

408
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 2: be a woman involved in a kidnapping?

409
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 3: Like this?

410
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: What is going on here? Turn around and come face

411
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 2: to face with a little kid that was one.

412
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 3: Of the people helping in your rest.

413
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 2: He is a little boy. He looks like he's nine.

414
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 2: He's wearing belts of ammunition. He's got a gun that's

415
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,239
Speaker 2: bigger than him, and we like make eye contact, and

416
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: he does one of these numbers like yeah, and then

417
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: tells me to turn around, and I'm just like, what

418
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 2: hell have I stepped into?

419
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're especially coming from a teacher perspective. You're sitting there,

420
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: and that's a kid behind me.

421
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 2: There's a little kid with an a K right behind

422
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 2: my head. What is this? And I think I don't

423
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 2: know at what point it was, but I Paul was

424
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 2: He turned around, I think to check on me, and

425
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:07,479
Speaker 2: I'm like what And he says, we're being kidnapped? And

426
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, I think I'm have a panic attack. I

427
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 2: think I can't breathe. It's all what in God's name

428
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: is this? And why me? What is happening? And so

429
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: we drive like into the middle of the night. Have

430
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 2: no idea how many hours, but it had to have

431
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 2: been like twelve hours.

432
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 3: I'm assuming too. You don't know any of this language

433
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 3: that they're speaking.

434
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 2: No, First of all, Smolly is a very difficult language

435
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: to learn, and it's not for lack of trying, but

436
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 2: it's difficult. No, I didn't know what was going on.

437
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 2: I kept hearing them talk about American. They're talking really loudly,

438
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 2: They're hyped up on this plant called cot chat. It

439
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: depends on who you talk to. It's like speed, it's

440
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: like an amphetamine. And they're like really hyped up and

441
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: amped up. And so we stop. We're out in the

442
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: middle of nowhere. There's it's so pitch black, there's no

443
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: ambient light. We are not near in We're just out

444
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 2: in the middle of the desert. And the guy with

445
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: the machine gun shoves me out of the car and

446
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: orders me to walk out into the desert. And I'm like, nope,

447
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that. I have no idea what's waiting

448
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 2: for me out there, but I can guarantee you it's

449
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: not going to be good. And so we go back

450
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: and forth and he's like screaming at me to walk,

451
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: and I'm like no, and he's shaking his gun in

452
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 2: my face. No, I'm pressing myself up against the car

453
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: and Paul comes around the corner and he takes my

454
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: hand and he says, Jessica, and you have to walk.

455
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 2: And I'm just thinking, like I maybe I should have understood.

456
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: I just don't understand, Like, how is this my life?

457
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were going through probably so many different emotions

458
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: of anger and sadness, and shock and grief, like it's

459
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: all hitting you up at this moment, imagine exactly.

460
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And all I can think is I can't think

461
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: very far forward because I don't want to like face

462
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: whatever reality is weeding for me in those eminent moments.

463
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: But I can feel that I'm heading. I'm like marching

464
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: toward my death. And so as I like continue walking,

465
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: Paul and I are like hand in hand and it's

466
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: so dark, and we're like tripping over thornbushes and rocks,

467
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 2: and I remember I gashed my leg on a rock

468
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: and it starts bleeding, and I'm thinking, like, Okay, this

469
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: is good. I can feel pain, this is this must

470
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: mean I'm still alive, because at that point it feels

471
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: so surreal that you're like, am I dreaming? Is this

472
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: really happening. I feel like I'm floating over my body.

473
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: I'm not grounded or tethered. I think also, that's probably

474
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: like a defense mechanism.

475
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: Right fight For sure, you're going through it out of

476
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: body experience, and you're detaching from what's.

477
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 2: Percent and I I'm thinking, Okay, I'm saying goodbye to Eric,

478
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: I'm saying goodbye to my dad, my brother, my sister.

479
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: My mom had passed away the year before, and so

480
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 2: I felt her presence there very strongly, and I was

481
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: just asking her to help me be strong, help me

482
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: be brave, help me be dignified. I was very aware

483
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 2: that I wanted to not have the last moments of

484
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 2: my life be hysterical, crying and begging for mercy or something.

485
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 2: I just I wanted to be dignified in those moments.

486
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: And so we just walk and more people come out

487
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: of the shadows, and we're being surrounded and there's like

488
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 2: chains of ammunition. I just remember thinking of it and

489
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: the weapons that there have to be twenty thirty who

490
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: knows how many men and who knows how many kids,

491
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: but at least this one. And then we basically just

492
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 2: get out into some like random place in the middle

493
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: of the desert, and they tell us to stop and

494
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 2: get down on our knees, and I think, this is it.

495
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: This is the end of my life. I'm thirty two,

496
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: thirty one, and this is it. Like I came here,

497
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: I really did try to help. I tried to make

498
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: a difference. Don't know why everybody's so angry at me.

499
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 2: I'm sorry if I did something wrong.

500
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 3: You're blaming yourself with this.

501
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just trying to make sense of how did

502
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 2: I end up here?

503
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

504
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 3: And what did it have to do with you?

505
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: Well, you had so many questions that weren't answered for sure.

506
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: And then I think there's also this I'm a person

507
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: of faith, and so there's this God, why would you

508
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: let something like this happen to me? You know, like

509
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: floating around somewhere, you can't catch any of the thoughts

510
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: because they're just like flying all.

511
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: Of them at the same time, while literally being in

512
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: a situation where you don't know if the next few

513
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: moments are the end.

514
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: Right, And then you're like, is it gonna hurt? Are

515
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: they going to wait?

516
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: Wow? Just everything that you could possibly think that could

517
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: happen is going through your head absolutely, and then like

518
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: things you're too afraid to think about happening.

519
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: And so I'm on my knees. I'm waiting for a

520
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 2: bullet to pierce my brain. I'm waiting for my head

521
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 2: to be cut off from my body. And then I

522
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: just hear one of them go sleep. Oh my god, Wait,

523
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 2: I know that word. What does that word mean? Does

524
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 2: that word mean what I think it means? Sleep? One

525
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: of them says, and I'm just like, I don't understand.

526
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: And then they like shove me to the ground, and

527
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: I realize they want me to lay down in the

528
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: dirt and go to sleep, and amazingly I do. I

529
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: like us out. It's almost like shock, yeah, like unconscious, right,

530
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: And so for a couple I guess for a couple

531
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: of hours, I wake up and it's like becoming daylight,

532
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: and I wake up with the realization like, oh my god,

533
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 2: that wasn't that really that happened? And I am quite

534
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: literally in hell and that would begin ninety three days

535
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 2: as a hostage out in the desert.

536
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, my my heart is just racing for you.

537
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine that.

538
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 3: It's well, yeah, and I'm sure we living.

539
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: It is also difficult in itself to walk yourself back

540
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:09,719
Speaker 1: through those moments.

541
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: So thank you.

542
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: I know that takes a lot, it does, and I

543
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: know sharing your story is just as important to you,

544
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: but it doesn't negate the fact that this.

545
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: Is difficult to share.

546
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: And I just I have so many follow up questions,

547
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: first being did you ever find out.

548
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: Why they took you money? They wanted money? Any It

549
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: took about a week for us to get that answer.

550
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: The scary part was we didn't really understand the context

551
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: of who had us. So like in Somalia there is

552
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: they have their own version of isis essentially or like

553
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: the Taliban kind of and probably that's a bad comparison,

554
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: but they're an extremist group and that was what I

555
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: was most afraid of. Have we been taken? Is this

556
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: an ideological thing? Like I'm a Christian white woman from America?

557
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: Is are they a statement? If that's true, then Gonner

558
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: and so it took a really long time to figure

559
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: out who we could ask because mostly they just left you.

560
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: If they weren't terrorizing you and threatening you, then they

561
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: would just leave you alone and leave you off in

562
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: the corner under a tree. And finally we asked this guy,

563
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: his name was Abdy, who we figured must be the

564
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: leader of the group to some extent, and he spoke

565
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 2: some English and we asked, plaint blank, are you gonna

566
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: kill us? And he said no, no, no, we just

567
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: want money. We just want money. And the relief I

568
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: felt here didn't trust him when he said that, that's

569
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: the interesting thing about this whole thing is like you,

570
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: I'll use my eyewords. I found that I would hold

571
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: on to some of the most ludicrous, unrealistic information because

572
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: my brain needed to hold on to something and convince

573
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: myself that it was true so that I could like

574
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: hang on and survive until whatever that happened. Right, So

575
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: I felt so much relief finding out that, oh, no,

576
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: we're not taking you for ideological reasons. We just took

577
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: you for money. But then my heart sank again when

578
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: I found out the ransom demand was forty five million dollars.

579
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: What from I'm assuming our government or.

580
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: They don't care where it comes from. They just want money, Yeah,

581
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: from whoever is willing to get it. These were not terrorists,

582
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: they were not extremists. They are just a gang of

583
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: random people. It's not that random it is. It's kind

584
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: of like the mafia or something. They're crooks, they're criminals.

585
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: They don't care where when it comes from. So, but

586
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: America does not negotiate with terrorists is how they say it.

587
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: But what they mean is they don't pay ransom demands.

588
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: It's further complicated because you got an American and a

589
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: Danish guy who worked for a Danish company who were

590
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 2: sent there by their company. It's not like we were

591
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: freelance journalists out there gallivanting around Somalia. How our organization

592
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: had sent us to do a job and given us

593
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: permission to go there. And so I did know somewhere

594
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: in the back of my mind that our organization had

595
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: insurance like kidnapping ranks of insurance, which they don't talk

596
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: about very widely, because right.

597
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: It's going to deter a lot of whole people from

598
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: working for you, and it's going to addrise a lot

599
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: more incidents.

600
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they know that.

601
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: There's that's how this works. So that provided me a

602
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: little bit of like mental relief, but also forty five

603
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: million dollars do you even know what that? Do you even?

604
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: And we kept saying, we're two aid workers, we're not

605
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: a containership off in the Indian Ocean that you've overtaken

606
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: a whole crew, and then all the stuff that's on

607
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: the ship were two people that no one really cares about,

608
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: like other than our families. And then we heard that

609
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: our organization countered at twenty thousand dollars and I'm like, look,

610
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: I'm no mathematician, but that's going to take a really

611
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 2: long time to meet in the middle.

612
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: That was the first sign of a negotiation happening, I guess.

613
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, So were they also.

614
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: Giving you food and water at all where.

615
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: They were, but not a lot. We would get water,

616
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: we would run out of water. I remember there was

617
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: an incident, oh man, and we were so thirsty because

618
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 2: it's so hot.

619
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: During the desert.

620
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really cold at night, but it's dry, right

621
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: and dusty and really hot during the day. And one

622
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: of them threw a jery can at us if you

623
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: were too is this similar to gas can right, that

624
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: they actually used for gas, but they would use it

625
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: interchangeably for water too, And so you're you got like water,

626
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: you don't know the source. It's least with diesel, and

627
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: that's what they want you to drink, so that's your choice,

628
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: or just like feeling like you're gonna die from thirst.

629
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: So it wasn't like that all the time, but sometimes

630
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: and then mainly what we ate was small tins of tuna.

631
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: They had like little miniature cans of tuna. And people

632
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: are always very fascinated by the fact that I had

633
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: a pouch from my purse that they let me take

634
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: with me that night, and I have a thyroid condition

635
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: and so I had medicine in it, and I had

636
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: the wherewithal to ask them if I could take it

637
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: with me the night that they took us.

638
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: Wow, and you needed that? I needed you not have that.

639
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: What would that have been like for you?

640
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: I would have gone into a thyroid storm and died.

641
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: So I needed my thyroid meds.

642
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: One that you knew to ask in that whole.

643
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, something in my head was just I don't know

644
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: what's going to happen, but I need this. Yeah, I

645
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: know you're probably gonna just execute me, but also in

646
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: case you don't, I need my thyroid medicine.

647
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: Well, and probably, looking back at that moment too, in

648
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: them allowing you to have it could have given you

649
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: some content.

650
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 2: I think it did. But I think I do remember

651
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: thinking like, okay, if they let me, why would they

652
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: let me take my bag if they were going to

653
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: kill me?

654
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

655
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: So, but I had a fresh campon in there, right,

656
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 2: because it's a bag that you keep in your purse,

657
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: And after a couple of eating tuna out of a

658
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: can with your hands dirty, you're disgusting, like this is gross,

659
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: And so I started digging through my powder bag to

660
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 2: see is there anything in here? I could use for

661
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 2: a utensil. It turns out you can scoop tunic fish

662
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: out of a can with a tampon applicator and suck

663
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 2: it out. Then I would watch innovation that it's and

664
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: I like, have made a couple of reels about that,

665
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: and people are always like what, And I'm like, it

666
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 2: wasn't used. It wasn't like I found a use tampon

667
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: on the ground out in the desert.

668
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: You found Think about your brain in that situation of

669
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: being like, what can I use? And you found something

670
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: and you just you were focused on surviving. Yeah, you

671
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: weren't focused on I don't care what I'm using. I'm

672
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: just trying to make this situation any way, shape or

673
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: form better.

674
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 2: Yes, I've got a body, I've got a tampon. What

675
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: can I How can I use these things? What's that?

676
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get that phrase? What desperation is

677
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: the mother of all invention? Is that it?

678
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: Did?

679
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: I get that right? But you learn in a situation

680
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: like this how resourceful you are.

681
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: Did that end up becoming like now, when you carry

682
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: around a person everything, do you carry more things with you?

683
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: Did that ever?

684
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: Have much?

685
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I packed my bag over there. I could probably

686
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: live out of that thing for two weeks really for sure.

687
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: But I also can see like how much you can

688
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: survive on how little you can survive on. Right, But

689
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: I do have a thing. I've got lots of PTSD,

690
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 2: lots of things that still this has been thirteen years

691
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: that still impact me. And yeah, carrying around a bunch

692
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: of crap in my bag is one of them.

693
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: So well, if you're comfortable with it, I'd love to

694
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: hear more about that experience, because that's the other side

695
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: of this. This is now not only did you survive

696
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: and also we'll get to that you were rescued by

697
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: Seal Team six I'm correct, but I want to hear

698
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: the post of all of this, like your experience going

699
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: back into life after all this happened.

700
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 3: The bag that changes things.

701
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: But I also know you made a post about traveling

702
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 1: and how flying on airplanes is also difficult, Like walk

703
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: me through those posts this situation, Yeah, what that's like

704
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: for you now?

705
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: So I call this phase and I think I'm like

706
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: moving out of it, but it's taken me a really

707
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: long time. By surviving survival, So there's surviving the tump

708
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: traumatic event and then there's the after, and so for

709
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: those of us who are fortunate enough to have survived

710
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: whatever that event is, then we have to figure out

711
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: how to if we want to rebuild our lives in

712
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 2: the aftermath of everything just falling apart. And so when

713
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: I came back, when I was brought back, I didn't

714
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: know who I was anymore. My identity had cracked because

715
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: it had been so connected to my work. I had

716
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: terrible PTSD, I had debilitating anxiety. I didn't feel safe

717
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: in the world anymore. I didn't know what I was

718
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: capable of doing anymore because my identity was very much

719
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 2: wrapped up in my work. I couldn't continue going out

720
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: in the field anymore because I just couldn't.

721
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 3: And I don't think anybody would also expect you to

722
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 3: after Well.

723
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: Well my organization did after a while, which is a

724
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: whole other story. But yes, right, so what am I

725
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: going to do? What am I qualified to do? All

726
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: of those questions, and then everything feels really over, really

727
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: hard and scary, and that surviving survival space is what

728
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 2: gets people. It's what keeps them ruminating over the past.

729
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: It paralyzes them and keeps them from moving forward because

730
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 2: they're also drowning in shame because of whatever has happened,

731
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 2: or perhaps they don't. They feel like they should be

732
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: able to move on and through it, where the truth is,

733
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: you don't move through any tragedy or trauma. You just

734
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 2: continue to move forward and so.

735
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 3: Never quite leaves you.

736
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 2: I would imagine, no never, And yes, I can talk

737
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: about it now, Yes I'll be extremely tired after this conversation.

738
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: I know how to take care of myself now, but

739
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: in those early days and I was. I am talking

740
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: to a friend about this who's also been through some

741
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: pretty hard stuff. And I've been extremely public about this also.

742
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't have to, but I did feel

743
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: a sense of responsibility to say thank you and to

744
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: be vocal and to share because of the link to

745
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: the military and Seal Team six in that community, because

746
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: it's true if they hadn't come and gotten me, I

747
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: would have died out there, and so it was a

748
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: high profile media event. Again, I'm not going to act

749
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: like some victim here that, oh, I have to give

750
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: speeches and write books, and I've chosen to do that.

751
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: That's been part of my healing journey and that doesn't

752
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 2: work for everybody. But that takes a toll too. It's

753
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 2: another part of just navigating the after well.

754
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: And I totally understand that responsibility and that care that

755
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: you want to give to your experience. There's a kindness

756
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: almost to it that you're treating yourself and saying, hey,

757
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: you went through this, and I'm going to recognize it

758
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: and we're going to do.

759
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 3: Things that helpefully bring good from it. So yeah, and I.

760
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: Would imagine that's mostly that goal for you and so,

761
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: but to not recognize that still being able to share

762
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: hard things doesn't mean it's easy. It's important, it's needed,

763
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: and it's necessary, but it doesn't again negate the hardness

764
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: that comes up. Two things can always be true, and

765
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: that's what this is. So I think it's amazing that

766
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: you're sharing and being willing to share, because I cannot

767
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: imagine going through an experience like this. You've created a

768
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: really beautiful life for yourself, and you have kids, and

769
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure all of that came with so many levels

770
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: of that PTSD. Yes, but you've chosen to You made

771
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: the choice too, and I think that's really cool. And

772
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: I know that it is hard. It's a choice every.

773
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: Day it is and it's an easier choice to make now,

774
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 2: there were some really dark moments. For a long time,

775
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 2: it was really hard. I got pregnant with my son

776
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: like a week after the rescue. Talk about a miracle,

777
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: but that really through me for a loop. I was like, Wow,

778
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: I really need a break here. Now I have to

779
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 2: show up for this other human being. And in retrospect,

780
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: of course, I know that was all the plan, Like

781
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: that was part of the plan, right, I had No

782
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: I don't feel like I had a choice to heal

783
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: because I needed to be. I had a responsibility to

784
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: my children to go to therapy, to do trauma treatment,

785
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: to do the journaling and the meditation and the prayer

786
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: and be on anxiety meds if I need, whatever it was,

787
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: so that I could be at the most healed version

788
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 2: of a mother that I could be for them. And

789
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I would like to think that I

790
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: would have taken those measures if I hadn't had kids,

791
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: but most likely I probably just would have ended up

792
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: drinking a bottle of white wine every night because I

793
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: didn't have to show up for anybody the next day.

794
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: And so I really see it as God's grace in

795
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: my life that I didn't get pregnant and so quickly.

796
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 3: Wow, but you were healing.

797
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: You hadn't even gosh, you probably hadn't even decompressed from everything, even.

798
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: How my body like got pregnant or I lost forty

799
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: five pounds.

800
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: Do you know if you were pregnant during that all

801
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 3: was happening? Or did it happen?

802
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: So I've written about this.

803
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: I don't sorry if that's too personal, it's.

804
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 2: Not, no, no, because I've written about it and published

805
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: about it. I do believe so my husband Eric and

806
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: I were trying to get pregnant when all of this happened,

807
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: and I do believe I had a miscarriage. At the

808
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: beginning of the kidnapping of captivity. I had some I'd

809
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: never had one before and haven't had one since, So

810
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 2: I do believe that's what happened. And I really was

811
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 2: grateful because I can't imagine how complicated everything would have

812
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: been if I had been pregnant. So I don't really

813
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 2: think about that or focus on that very much. But

814
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 2: the fact that, like with extreme quick weight loss, I

815
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: was one hundred nineteen pounds when I came out and

816
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 2: I'm almost six feet tall, so that was significant significant,

817
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 2: And then to be able to get pregnant and hold

818
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: on to the pregnancy like I just I don't know.

819
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 2: It was just to me, it's miraculous.

820
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 3: You're just I.

821
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: Don't know how one person could handle so much of

822
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: what you were going through. And also you had mentioned

823
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: very briefly that you had lost.

824
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: My mother a year before.

825
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I just like to make the choice to

826
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: be here and to do the things is so beautiful

827
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: and it's a testament to who you are and the

828
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: strength that you carry with you and the love that

829
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: you have surrounding you. I imagine your husband was a

830
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: critical part in your healing, and that is.

831
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 2: Just the thing, right, Like, I recognize how privileged I am,

832
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: and I write about this a lot. I just had

833
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: a book come out, How to Survive, Survival and a

834
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: lot Like so many of us, none of us escape

835
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: the human experience, unescapes where either we've survived something, we're

836
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: surviving it right now, or we will Like that's just

837
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: the human experience. What we don't get to choose is

838
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 2: like some of us have more tools in our toolbox, right,

839
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 2: Like we have family who is supporting us, or we

840
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: have maybe resources available to us that other people don't have,

841
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: and in my situation, I just feel so lucky. Yes,

842
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 2: I have this amazing man. Just I knew he was

843
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 2: a bulldog while I was sitting out there in the desert.

844
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: I knew he was beating down every door. He was

845
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: doing whatever he could to get me out of there.

846
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 2: I knew my dad and my brother and sister were

847
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: praying and supporting and doing what they could. And I

848
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: also committed to my mental health recovery while I was

849
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: out there, and I did good on that promise to

850
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: myself and so, but not everybody has those support systems

851
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: or those resources available. And so I do think that

852
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: I'm just really lucky in that regard.

853
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: And that's an important piece to this puzzle for sure,

854
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 1: at the end of it, to recognize the role your

855
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 1: life has in it. And I love that you speak

856
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: on just so many different angles and the nuance of

857
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: all of it, because it's necessary.

858
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: To I think so none of it. It's like black

859
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: and white, Like it's not, oh well, this trauma is

860
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: worse than this trauma. You can't compare anything because we

861
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: are all working on different baselines. Yep. Like for whatever reason,

862
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: I just have a really strong mind. I was so

863
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 2: worried that I was going to have a psychotic break

864
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 2: while I was out there, because if that or there

865
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: was a time to have one, it would be then.

866
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 3: Well and to nobody would fault you for that. That

867
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 3: would be completely fair, and you're right.

868
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: To what one hundred percent. But I knew that was

869
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: my fear, and I needed to safeguard myself and figure

870
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: out a way to keep myself as mentally strong as

871
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: I possibly can. And it turns out the methods that

872
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: I used while I was in captivity are still things

873
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: that I apply to my life now. No even sharing them, No,

874
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: not at all. It sounds so cliche, but like gratitude,

875
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 2: it really it's the easiest hack, yeah, for surviving life.

876
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 2: I got to a point where I would not go

877
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,959
Speaker 2: to sleep while I was out there on my mat

878
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 2: on the ground until I could say five things that

879
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: I was actually grateful for. And sometimes they were really pathetic,

880
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 2: but I'm glad my tonail didn't fall off today or such.

881
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: Just really really stretching it. It changes things, and it

882
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: gives you the strength to make it through to the

883
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: next minute, sometimes this minute by minute. And I have

884
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 2: so much empathy for people who are struggling through something.

885
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 2: I don't feel like they can get out of bed,

886
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: whether it's literally or metaphorically, And sometimes all you can

887
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 2: do is just move your big toe and that's enough.

888
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: And so for me, that's what it was like. I

889
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: also spent a lot of time in reflection, and I'm

890
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: a very reflective person anyway, and so that was easy

891
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: for me to do that. I got really organized about it,

892
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 2: and I again, I was grieving the last of my mom,

893
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: and so I used a lot of this time that

894
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: I had to think about some of the dysfunction of

895
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: our relationship and really find some closure in my grief

896
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: process while I was out there, and it helped me

897
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 2: gain some clarity around my mom and why maybe she

898
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: did some of the things she did and why I

899
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: responded the way I did. And I think there were

900
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: some really beautiful moment of forgiveness. And so all of

901
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: those things can be applied very easily when you don't

902
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: have a gun held to your head, and if they

903
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 2: can be that effective, then then they most assuredly can

904
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: be that effective.

905
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: Now, well, can I just mention that it's remarkable that

906
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,959
Speaker 1: you even thought to utilize those tools in a state

907
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: where you were in fighter flight, because most of the

908
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: time when you are in a fighter flight, it's really

909
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: hard to one advocate for yourself, to show up for yourself,

910
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: to do all the things that are needed to take

911
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: care of yourself. And you had enough wherewithal to just

912
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: force yourself to give you that hope to move forward.

913
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 2: Well, it also provided me an escape, because what I've

914
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 2: learned is that our minds are so powerful. No one

915
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: only you have control of your mind. No one else

916
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 2: can gain entrance into your head. I will often say

917
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: that my body was being held hostage, but my mind

918
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 2: had never been for your because what I learned was

919
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: the power of my thoughts and what I focused on

920
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 2: what you appreciate, appreciates right. And if I had just

921
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: been laying there in the fetal position, thinking oh my god,

922
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to die, I'm going to die, I'm going

923
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: to die, then I probably would have. But that was

924
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 2: helping no one. And so it really is. It's all.

925
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 2: It's a mindset thing. That is the hack, that is

926
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: the way you win it life and how you survive

927
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: it is it's all in your mind. That's such a

928
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 2: great fool that you've got to carry with you through yeah,

929
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 2: so many. I feel really grateful to have learned it. It

930
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: would have been nice to have learned it outside of captivity.

931
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 3: But right any other way, Yeah, actually, like any other way.

932
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: But you know what, I'm not going to learn the

933
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: lesson twice. Yeah, I got it this time. That we're good.

934
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're like I, Yeah, that one will stay safely.

935
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: In my head forever. Yeah.

936
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about that rescue part side

937
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: of this, because you were rescued by Sale Team six.

938
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: So how did that even come to fruition? Did it

939
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 3: involve your husband?

940
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: You did mention how he was beaten down doors and

941
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: trying to make some moves and do things.

942
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 3: So what happened in the rescue?

943
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: So unbeknownst to me that when something like this happens

944
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: to an American citizen abroad, the FBI gets involved immediately

945
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 2: because it's a crime against an American. And so the

946
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: FBI was working along with my organization. And because my

947
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: husband had been in Somalia working and knew the environment,

948
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 2: the landscape very well, not the physical landscape but the

949
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: cultural landscape. Rather, he was really brought in as an

950
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: expert right to run things past. And I had what

951
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: were would have been a series of six proof of

952
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: life calls, and those are when those are just like

953
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: what you see on TV. Right, they like, put you

954
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: on the phone for me. They would drive us deep,

955
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 2: deep out into the desert, put us on a satellite phone,

956
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: and we would talk to somebody from our organization and

957
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 2: answer security questions that would identify us. What your mother's made, name,

958
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: what's the tattoo on your back? Because they needed to

959
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,959
Speaker 2: make sure that we were alive still so the negotiations

960
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 2: could keep moving forward. And my sixth proof of life

961
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: call was January sixteenth, twenty twelve, and it would be

962
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: my final one. Unbeknownst to me, and I said to

963
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: the communicator who was speaking on behalf of our family,

964
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: I listed my symptoms. I had contracted a UTI from

965
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 2: being out there in the desert, and I was like

966
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: on week two of an untreated urinary tract infection. I

967
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 2: knew it was moving into a kidney infection because I'd

968
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 2: had one actually like the year before, and I was

969
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 2: hospitalized in Nairobi for a week, so pretty serious things, right,

970
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: And I told her my symptoms and I said, I

971
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: knew exactly what's happening. If you guys, don't get me

972
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: out of here. I'm going to die. And I think

973
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: I said something like and it's going to be all

974
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 2: your fault.

975
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and you're speaking from a place of panic.

976
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 2: And yeah, you need to know how serious this is.

977
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: This is we are now at a life and death

978
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: situation here, right, And so I get off the phone,

979
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 2: go back. My health continues to decline to the point

980
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 2: where I'm like losing the ability to walk. I'm throwing

981
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 2: up all the time. It's getting bad because you have

982
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: to understand, I'm like outside the whole time. They don't

983
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: take us to a house, they don't take us to

984
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: a shelter. There's no bathroom, I'm not showering. I'm living outside.

985
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: And you're probably in the same clothes you've been wearing

986
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 1: the whole time.

987
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: Someone took my underwear, Okay, yeah, weird, Yeah weird. I

988
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 2: had washed them a couple of days into after I'd

989
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 2: had this massive whatever it was, like, miscarriage. I think

990
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: I washed my underwear and my pants and I laid

991
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: them like on a bush to dry, and somebody took them.

992
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 2: And so I kept asking for new underwear and they

993
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: didn't understand what I meant, and so I had no

994
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 2: underwear that Oh my.

995
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 3: Gosh, and that's a I mean about sanitarium.

996
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no barrier. I'm just going to the bathroom

997
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: out bushit. It's just sometimes I still can't believe I

998
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 2: liked all that. So we get to ten days later,

999
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 2: January twenty fourth, moving into the twenty fifth, twenty twelve,

1000
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: and I'm just in a really bad way. I'm in

1001
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: a lot of pain and like abdominal pain, cramping, high fevers.

1002
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 2: Paul helps me pull my mat out into the field

1003
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: where I'm in a sleep and there are nine guys

1004
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: on the ground that night, and I was always sleeping

1005
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 2: with machine guns pointed at my head, like surrounding my mat,

1006
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 2: and then there would always be someone like sleeping next

1007
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 2: to me, guarding me or whatever. And I remember that

1008
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: night in particular, there were two stars that would come

1009
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 2: out at the same time every night. I know this

1010
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 2: sounds like I'm making it up, but I'm really not.

1011
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 2: And they're big and bright and beautiful, and I would

1012
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: I named one for my mom, And so I would

1013
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: talk to my mom every night and tell her there

1014
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: was usually not much going on, not much to report,

1015
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 2: but I remember saying to her, like I need you

1016
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: to go and tell God that he needs to do

1017
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 2: something or else. I out here. I just I don't

1018
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: want this to be the So I fall asleep. I

1019
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 2: wake up a couple hours later because I'm sick, and

1020
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: I like get up, and I'm saying toilet toilet, because

1021
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: that's how I asked permission to leave the mat. And

1022
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: they all nine of them are passed out. They're like

1023
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: snoring like they're like passed out. And I'm like, oh,

1024
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 2: this is weird because always at least one of them

1025
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 2: was up at night keeping like keeping watch over the camp.

1026
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: No one would wake up. So I picked up a

1027
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: small flashlight, like a pen light, and I start flashing

1028
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: it and I'm like toilet toilet, and I like crawl

1029
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 2: my way over to the nearest bush. I do what

1030
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 2: I need to do. I come back to my mat.

1031
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: Everybody's still completely passed out. I wrap myself up in

1032
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 2: my blanket and I can hear something like a noise

1033
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: as if there's like maybe an animal or something walking

1034
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 2: toward me. It's not like just sand, it's sand, and

1035
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: then tufts of long grass and shrub and stuff, and

1036
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 2: it sounds like something's sprinking the grasses and I don't

1037
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 2: know what it is, so I cover myself back up,

1038
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 2: and then the pirate who's sleeping on my left. I

1039
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 2: can't see anything because it has gotten really dark now.

1040
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 2: The clouds have overtaken the stars. There's no moon. But

1041
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: I can tell he's terrified. I can feel it, and

1042
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: he's standing up. I can tell he's holding his ak

1043
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: and he's whisper screaming at all the other guys into

1044
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 2: Malli like wake up, wake up, wake up, and they're

1045
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 2: like rousing. All of a sudden, this just like shot

1046
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 2: rings out and I don't know who where it came from,

1047
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: and then the night just erupts into automatic gunfire and

1048
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 2: it's just like and I'm like laying there on the

1049
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 2: ground like, oh my god, oh my god, Like we're

1050
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: being overtaken. I'm thinking we're being taken out by al Shabab,

1051
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 2: because that was always the threat, or maybe another group,

1052
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: and we're going to be re kidnapped because that can happen.

1053
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: Just like laying there on the ground, and I put

1054
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: blanket over and I'm trying to get as low as

1055
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: I can to the ground, and I feel like if

1056
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 2: I could just disappear. I'm just praying to disappear and

1057
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 2: sink into the ground. And they're all these shots being fired.

1058
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 2: I can cease barks, and these guys are dropping to

1059
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 2: the ground. They're making the most horrific sounds. They're dying

1060
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: all around me. And then I'm just like, oh my God,

1061
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: Oh my God, over and over again, Oh God, Oh God.

1062
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 2: And then somebody grabs my ankles and my shoulders and

1063
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 2: tries to pull the blanket away from my face, and

1064
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 2: I'm trying to protect myself. I have my hands in

1065
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: front of me, and I'm just like just trying to

1066
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 2: shield myself because I don't know what. I don't know

1067
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 2: what they're gonna do to me. And then all of

1068
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: a sudden, I hear the sound of a young American

1069
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 2: man's voice and he knows my name, and he says, Jessica,

1070
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 2: you're see and shock just overtakes me immediately, and I

1071
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: just I start shaking and trembling and I can't stop shaking.

1072
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 2: And all I can say over and over again is

1073
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 2: you're American. We say it, You're American, like I don't

1074
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: understand where she come from. You're American. And they pulled

1075
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: the blanket away from me and help me sit up.

1076
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 2: And the soldier the closest to me, gets down on

1077
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: my level and he says, we've been watching you for

1078
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: a really long time. We know how sick you. And

1079
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 2: he's got medicine, he's got antibiotics, and he's got a

1080
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 2: bottle of water and he gives that to me, and

1081
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't like. I just again like

1082
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: I have my I can't process, I can't think straight.

1083
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 3: It's the reverse side. Yeah, like when you got taken.

1084
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 3: Now you're on the other side, and You're like, is

1085
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 3: that real? Is this happening exactly?

1086
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 2: Is this another? Is this a dream? Maybe maybe I've died.

1087
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: Maybe all these things are going through my mind right,

1088
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: And then now I can start to make out. There

1089
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: are all these soldiers around me. They've got these masks on,

1090
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 2: and one of them says, we've been watching well, and

1091
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: he says, do you know where your shoes are? And

1092
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I have no idea where shoes are,

1093
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: and so he's okay, well, we've got to get you

1094
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: out of here. We've got to take you to a

1095
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 2: place of safety. And I'm like okay, and so he's

1096
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna pick you up,

1097
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna put you over my shoulder and I'm

1098
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 2: gonna carry you to the edge of the camp. And

1099
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, And so that's exactly what he does,

1100
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: and I just will never forget. He's running across the desert.

1101
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 2: My head is like bobbing up and down like against

1102
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: his back, and I'm thinking, I am a school teacher

1103
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 2: from Yo. How can this be my life?

1104
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 3: You're like, at this point is this real? Am I

1105
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 3: in a movie? Did this just get completely made up?

1106
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 2: What is this? And so he puts me on the ground.

1107
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,959
Speaker 2: My first question is where's Paul. Did he make it out?

1108
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 2: Is he okay? And he's there, He's sitting on the

1109
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: edge of the camp and he leans over and he says, Jessica,

1110
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 2: do you know these guys are And I'm like, I

1111
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: have no idea what is going on? And he's like,

1112
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 2: this is Seal Team six. These are the guys that

1113
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: got us Godden wow. And I'm like, I'm what what?

1114
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: And then it would just unfold from there. It's just

1115
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:01,720
Speaker 2: been the most life say, life giving and life changing

1116
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: experience of my life in so many ways, but what tremendous,

1117
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 2: tremendous community and individuals they are from. At one point,

1118
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: they weren't sure the premises were safe, and so they

1119
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: had Paul and I laid down and several of them

1120
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 2: laid down on top of us to guard us, and

1121
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: then the rest of them formed a human shield. And

1122
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 2: of course I didn't understand this at the time, but

1123
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: not only did they like jump out of a plane

1124
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,439
Speaker 2: from twenty five thousand feet up in the air, hike

1125
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 2: in three miles and then take out all of these

1126
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: guys for someone they don't know, and then we wait

1127
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: for the heroes to come in and it's a medical helicopter,

1128
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 2: so we start receiving medical treatment right away. And then

1129
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: they put us on a plane in Gaukyo that's going

1130
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 2: to take us to Djibouti, which is like, I don't

1131
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 2: expect people to know where this is, but it's another

1132
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: African country up right above the Horn of Africa, and

1133
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: there's a big American military base there, and so we're

1134
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: going to receive treatment there. And on the way there,

1135
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: the lights are up. We're on this plane and all

1136
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 2: these guys they're like celebrating their hooping and holler, and

1137
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: they're like, are you hungry? Do you want to snick

1138
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 2: our bar? We got chips and salsad. I can't make

1139
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: words come out of my mouth. I just remember I'm

1140
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 2: wearing this like smolly dress. It's completely ripped down the back.

1141
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: I'm filthy. I have no wonderwear on. Like my hair,

1142
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: I've been combing it with fork. I got a fork

1143
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 2: like I am a shell of the woman that I

1144
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 2: once was. And I feel so embarrassed by my appearance

1145
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: and also so grateful. And I'm panicking because I'm thinking,

1146
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, I've lost all my social skills. Maybe

1147
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 2: I'm a total freak be able to talk to people

1148
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: again because I've spent so much time in the desert

1149
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 2: and solitary confinement. I'm like freaking out. And one of

1150
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 2: them comes over to me very quietly, and he gets

1151
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: down on my level and he puts something in my

1152
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 2: life app and I look down and I see that

1153
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 2: it's an American full that they brought on. The bitch.

1154
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: He just says, welcome.

1155
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna start crying. Yeah, I'm just imagining the.

1156
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: Experience every time I tell it, and I've probably told

1157
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,439
Speaker 2: it a thousand times, and I'm just like, I don't

1158
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: know that I was like especially patriotic. I mean grateful

1159
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 2: to be an American for sure, but in that moment,

1160
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 2: I was just like, this is what to belong to

1161
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: a country who will leave nothing, but they'd on leave

1162
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: people behind in that regard, and I just tears just

1163
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: ran down my face and then the words they came out,

1164
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 2: then they could come out, and it was just thank you.

1165
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 3: All that gratitude and just say days of gratitude. We're

1166
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 3: probably pouring back.

1167
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 2: I think there's nothing more you can say, but thank you.

1168
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 3: Your story is so special, Jessica.

1169
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: And I know it was never part of your plan

1170
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: and it was never something that you'd like to repeat

1171
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 1: ever again. No, but for you to be able to

1172
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: be the one to be the vessel to continue to

1173
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: share the story, to share all these bits and pieces

1174
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,439
Speaker 1: and moments, because there's so much more, and I wish

1175
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: I could have you here to share it all, but

1176
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: I think you'd actually need a week to really.

1177
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 3: Recover if we truly dove all the way in.

1178
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: But your story is so important and I'm so glad

1179
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 2: that you took the time to be here, and I

1180
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 2: do want you to shout your book out again and

1181
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 2: your social media because people can continue to follow your story.

1182
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 2: So if people are interested in learning more about the

1183
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 2: actual event Impossible Odds, the kidnapping of Jessica Buchanan and

1184
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 2: her dramatic rescue by Seal Team six, And then I

1185
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 2: have a lot of anthologies and Desert's Mountaintops, and then

1186
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: the latest book is How to Survive Survival. I died

1187
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 2: for turning life's hardest moments into meaningful contribution for the world.

1188
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 2: And I do hang out on Instagram way too much,

1189
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: Jessica C. Buchanan, So I'd love it if people reach

1190
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 2: out and connect with me. I love hearing people's stories,

1191
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: helping them tell their stories and just connecting well.

1192
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: And the way we always in this podcast and there

1193
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: is no one better to ask. But I like to

1194
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: end it on something inspirational, motivational, or just something maybe

1195
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: we didn't get too that's heavy on your heart that

1196
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: you want to share and I just give the platform

1197
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: over to you.

1198
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 2: So I have a good friend. His name is Martin,

1199
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: and he has an incredible story of his own, and

1200
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 2: so I feel like it's important that people understand that

1201
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: I didn't say this, but he said it to me

1202
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: during a conversation, and it's changed my life. He said,

1203
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 2: things don't happen, they don't always happen for a reason,

1204
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean we can't derive purpose from it.

1205
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 2: And so I just feel like that so perfectly encapsulates

1206
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 2: my situation, right like my story, I didn't spend a

1207
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 2: whole lot of time in the aftermath thinking about asking

1208
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 2: why did this happen to me? I asked why to

1209
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 2: have to change everything? But I write about that and

1210
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 2: how to survive survival. But I really do believe, I

1211
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 2: really really do believe that the key to healing from

1212
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 2: the hard stuff that happens to us in life is

1213
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 2: to connect with some sort of purpose outside of ourself.

1214
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 2: And so if anybody's listening to this and they're in

1215
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: a place where they're like wondering now what, I really

1216
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 2: hope that something in my story connects and you feel

1217
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: inspired to think about the fact that perhaps things changed

1218
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 2: because they had to, and that there is there really

1219
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 2: can be a purpose for it all.

1220
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,919
Speaker 1: Jessica, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart,

1221
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: because again, I know that that could have been really

1222
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: hard to just repeat all the stories, all the moments,

1223
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: all the emotions, the really reliving that experience, and I

1224
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: know that it will change some lives and will continue

1225
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: to do so.

1226
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 2: So thank you, Thank you for the opportunity with my

1227
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: honor and privilege.

1228
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: Jessica is such an incredible storyteller and beyond brave for

1229
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: willing to share her story in order to help others

1230
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: in so many ways. A reminder that you can watch

1231
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: every single interview of the podcast on YouTube at web

1232
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: Girl Morgan. You can follow the podcast instagram for extra

1233
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: content at Take this Personally. As always, I'm so happy

1234
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: that you're here. Thanks for showing up and supporting. Let

1235
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: me know if there are any guests you hope make

1236
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: it onto the podcast this year, because I will be

1237
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: checking the dms for that and any other questions, comments,

1238
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: concerns hit me up there too, So by for now,

1239
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: my friends,