WEBVTT - High Time We Rethink Old Weed Convictions 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.920 Okay, Greg, check this out. I learned something. I learned 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:06.800 a lot working with you, but this one kind of 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.080 took me back. Did you know that the cops don't 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.720 have to find any drugs on you for you to 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:15.000 be convicted and in prison for a drug crime? Then 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.119 what are you talking about? This call is from a 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.239 federal prison. You will not be charged for this call. 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.280 We can say pretty confidently that at any point in time, 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:30.360 they're over forty thousand people incarcerated for cannabis in this country. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.400 The door, I mean, we have clients who are serving 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.920 life without the possibility of roles for selling twenty dollars 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.760 worth of week. That's correct. This call will be recorded 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.240 and subject to monitoring at any time. You may begin 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.199 speaking now. The Golf ass Force, you came to my 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.479 house and read in my house, and I taught me 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.120 I was being charged with conspiracy to distribute are one 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.200 of the department. They didn't find any guns, they didn't 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.440 find any drugs, they didn't find any money, but feelbout 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.160 ristany and they told me that I would be charged 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.800 for conspiracy to distribute twenty two hundred pounds tomorrow one 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.000 with a maximum census of life and this is solely 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.840 based on somebody else, just what they saying. Yeah, and 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.440 they can do that without any drugs on the table 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:25.000 on the climbing sound. Hey, this is Clayton English. This 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:30.600 is Greg Glad and this is the war on drug Greg? 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.840 What's going on? How much clay now are you doing? 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:34.880 I'm good man. We got a little bit of a 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.880 special episode today, right, a little bit longer than the others. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:43.800 U two interviews Natalie Pappion with the Last Prisoner Project 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.720 and uh Edwin Rubis who's incarcerated right now where it 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:54.920 telldega okay Teldegan Alabama at a federal penitentiary right out there. Yeah, 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.960 and I can't wait for people to hear it because 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.280 it's comment was it was a riot. It made me 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:08.800 feel a lot of different feelings, anger, upset, and you know, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:12.640 he really kind of just put you in his shoes. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.200 And I don't think we think about it. This is 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.280 the first interview that we've had where we talked to 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:23.000 somebody that currently yeah, in prison and living with it. Yeah, 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.160 and you know a lot of the things that you 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.720 told me as we've started this podcast, I just saw 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.400 first hand in this interview, right, how we criminalize addiction. Yea, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.440 how people get wrapped up in this, How you get 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.720 the trial, going to trial, exercising your constitutional rights, going 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.360 to trial, How that damages you, the crazy sentences, the 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.160 problems in prison, how you get back. I mean it 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.720 really like start to finish, like shows every little problem 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.720 that you have in the system. And it's it's so 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.440 much bigger than anything you could imagine. Like once you 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.000 once I found out that the people that really need 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.560 to be locked up can give up lesser people and 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:08.880 get less time. That's feels like the complete opposite of 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.440 what our legal system is designed to do. Right, But 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.000 and Actuality is perfectly designed to do just that exactly 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.959 because again it's not about the drugs, right Yeah. And 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.400 and Edwin's case got on our radar from you know, 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.440 the Last Prisoner Project when we were talking to them 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.919 and Natalie papillon Um who works over there, and you know, 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.200 it's an organization that does, you know, trying to help 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.000 individuals that are currently incarcerated from arijuana fences to be 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.080 able to get released and you know successful inner society. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.200 You see what you see, what she's fighting for isn't 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:48.720 just something on paper or just this it's real people 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.440 getting affected by these things. Yeah, and the people that's designed, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.080 like the cartel is not scared. Are the people in 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.440 charge or not scared? I actually, you know they enjoy this, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.640 They like it. Yeah, because there needs to be a scalp, right, Yeah, 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.520 like if you got you got these numbers pinted this 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.720 person who didn't have a fraction of what we had 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.600 to do with it, and they get to take the Brennan, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.279 we get to keep riberating perfect. Everybody wins as far 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:22.680 as the corrupt bullish it. Yeah. No one loves mandatory 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:27.800 minimums and conspiracy charges more than El Chopo and all 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.720 these guys. I mean, who who loves prohibition more than 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.720 alcol Yeah? So I'm really excited for you all to 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.880 listen to this. We have an amazing conversation with Natalie, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.680 and then we speak with Edwin and m Yeah. Let's 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:49.640 I think bready get into it. Yeah. Absolutely, Natalie. How 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.440 are you doing today? I'm doing great. I'm excited about this. 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.479 Thanks for having me. Man, We're so excited to have 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.880 you here doing the lord's work. Yeah, you're doing what 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.000 needs to be done. I mean, I think there's so 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.920 many people that have been thrown away in the system 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.239 for such a small infraction, and infraction that in most 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.520 places as legal are close to legal. Now, so can 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.560 you start us off with just the scale of the 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:21.360 problem and the injustice when it comes to marijuana arrest 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.040 and who would affect Yeah, I think let's start from 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:28.320 this misconception that now that many states have either liberalized 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.040 their cannabis laws or outright legalized, they don't use cannabis, 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.719 No one's being arrested, no one's being incarcerated for possession 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.520 or distribution, and everyone who was formally incarcerated has been 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.320 sort of let free the prison gates have opened. That 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.000 is definitely not true. But we have done a lot 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.120 of internal research at Last Prisoner Project and we can 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.640 say with you know, pretty confidently that at any point 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:57.039 in time, they're over forty thousand people incarcerated for cannabis 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:02.440 in this country, which is you know, a ton of people, 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.880 especially when you consider the fact that twenty states have 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.400 legalized for adult use, and you know, doesn't more have 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:14.560 decriminalize the plan. So we're seeing an injustice and a 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:20.159 hypocrisy where many people are minting millions of dollars off 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.039 of selling cannabis in their states. You know, they're buying 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:27.240 pot stocks while others are being sentenced to not just 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.679 you know, a few days, weeks, months in prison for 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.480 even something as simple as marijuana possession. I mean, we 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.440 have clients who are serving life without the possibility of 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.000 parole for selling twenty dollars worth of weed. That's crazy. 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.800 Whenever I tell people, they assume I'm making things up 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:48.000 or being hyperbolic, but I was. Unfortunately, it's true. And 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.200 how does that happen? You know? This one man, I'm 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.160 thinking about mister Kevin Allen. He was sentenced to life 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.479 without the possibility of parole because he was considered under 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.880 Louisiana state law habitual Now that seems really scary and okay, 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:07.840 habitual offender like terrorizing our communities whatnot? He had, you know, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.040 for previous arrest and they were all for drug possession, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:15.000 all non violent. So we have these incredibly draconian laws 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.560 on the books. We have judges and energy social system 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.119 that doesn't isn't empowered to look at the full facts 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:23.720 of the case. You know, they have to look at 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.880 mandatory minimums, they have to look at habitual offender laws, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.920 and that leaves you in a situation where we have 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.200 people serving life for twenty dollars with a week. Yeah, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.000 it's crazy, and like marijuana kind of just feels like 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:37.560 it gets like thrown onto the rug. But it is 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.000 one of the biggest drivers of not only just you know, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.560 criminal justice contacts through arrest, but also incarceration. Yeah, you 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.440 touched on a really great point. So throughout sort of 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.440 the recent history in the US, marijuana law enforcement has 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.880 ebbed and flows, but the nineteen nineties and you know, 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.440 at the very beginning of the nineties, we start to 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.320 see a huge ramping up of marijuana related arrests. So 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.840 you know, illustrate that in nineteen ninety one there were 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.240 eighty eight thousand marijuana arrests across the country. In two 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:12.280 thousand two, we're seeing seven hundred thirty thousand marijuana arrest 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.960 So why did that happen? One is sort of the 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:20.440 cratering of crime rates post the nineteen eighties. And you 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.120 know what police have to do with those bloated budgets 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.200 and how they have to utilize them, and how they're 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.280 incentivized to utilize them, and they do that by doing 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.120 the easiest thing they can do is start picking people 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.080 up on the street for weed. Right. We also have 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.560 this mythology start in the nineteen nineties around the youthful 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.600 sort of marijuana menace. Right, So we have this idea 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.640 that predominantly young black men may have either been in 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.360 car already, are already in cars rated for crack, or 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.640 you know, are not using crack or distributing crack as 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.680 much as they might have been in the nineteen eighties, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.840 and they're instead turning to marijuana. Is not just contained 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.760 to the inner cities, they're sort of predilection and for 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:04.040 marijuana use is actually spreading into the suburbs. And I'm 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.280 going to be totally blunt, no pun intended, you know, 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.839 infecting white suburban youth. And this is a crisis, and 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.800 we need to protect the children. And in order to 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.080 protect the children, we need to basically stop stop frisk 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.480 and throw every young black man who might have a 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.960 dime bag on them into prison. Yeah. So you touch 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.320 on something, and it's something that I've worked with quite 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.440 a bit. You know, as states have attempted to either 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:31.959 decriminalize or legalize marijuana, you know, you sometimes get sometimes 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.840 almost every time, push back from law enforcement. And what 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:39.160 I've noticed is like it's not necessarily the prohibition of 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.920 the drug itself. It's what comes around with it and 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.280 some of the collateral issues. So it's like, well, now 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:47.760 we're going to lose this thing that we have in 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.200 our back pocket if we smell marijuana? Are you or 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.000 we can do a stop and frisk on you and 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.880 have a dime bag if it's legal those go away. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.880 Can you kind of touch on like some of the 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:01.200 other collateral aspects of like what no on legalization looks 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.640 like in those states and how that allows for government 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.440 control over individuals through that and what they're losing from 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:11.360 a legalization standpoint the government. So you mentioned one thing 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.920 about the odor of marijuana, So that's obviously been the case, 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.760 that's been the basis for so many pretextual stops across 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.679 the country. When it becomes legalized, and if it's legalized 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.240 in the right way, police use that sort of investigative tool. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.720 I don't have a lot of empathy for law enforcement 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.760 departments who say they basically need to skirt the Constitution 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.360 in order to do their job. If I'm being totally candid, 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.200 I think if you can't do your job and protect 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.360 public safety without stopping a bunch of people for smoking weed, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.560 then you're probably in the wrong line of work, and 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.960 oftentimes this stuff can turn deadly. I don't know if 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.080 you remember the story of Philando Castile, but the cop 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:56.160 who sort of approached him said he smelled marijuana, and 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.079 he said that smell made him fear for his life. Now, 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.679 this is a cop, you know, a young cop in Minnesota. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:07.160 That doesn't really hold water for me. But you know, 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.679 you can say that because it's illegal, and you know, 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.800 there have been so many court cases that say it's 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.120 the basis for protectural stops and people can can get 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.400 away with approaching people and killing people because of that 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.280 marijuana impetus. That's just so crazy. Like if you can 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.360 smell like cocaine, then you are a kingpin, you are boss, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.920 you are a scarface. But weed is one of the 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.560 only things, Like yeah, just a small amount, and like 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.160 you said, people have lost their life. Like for him 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.320 to say he was fearful because of the smell of marijuana, 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.080 it goes back to kind of the racial tones that 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.720 it has. You're fearful because they've associated marijuana with black 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.360 people to make you fearful. Yeah, it's it's crazy. When 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.360 you see the numbers as they just kind of stay 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.840 in these horrible hundreds of thousands of people still getting 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.760 arrested for marijuana offense's mainly possession only, and still going 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.319 on in twenty twenty when we're twenty twenty two now, 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.360 And so I know in some states they'll legalize it, 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.040 but they don't make provisions to like make for retroactive 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.640 sentencing for people that are in behind bars, or if 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:12.640 you have a criminal record for something that's legal now, 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.920 to like seal that or expongic. So, can you talk 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.240 about some of the complications that we see within the 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.840 criminal justice system now as we move to legal that 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:22.920 are still hindering people that were caught up in it 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:28.680 prior to yes, So oftentimes activists or policymakers will put 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.800 forth a legalization proposal, they'll spend a lot of time 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.480 thinking about tax rates, a lot of time thinking about 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.280 like what agency should be sort of the regulatory body 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.800 governing cannabis operations, and they rarely ever think about, Okay, 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.959 what happens to the people who either still incarcerated or 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.120 the people who were previous incarcerated and have this sort 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.400 of black mark on their records, And so consumers, the 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.920 general public think, Okay, it's legal, now, everyone goes free. 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.680 Whereas if you don't actually write that explicitly and do 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.199 it in a smart way into the law, people are 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.520 still remaining in prison. So they are in prison while 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.120 they are reading magazines that talk about the latest pot billionaire. Right. 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.840 Can you imagine what that would feel like? Um? That's 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.920 you know. I we have constituents who say, I was 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.520 serving a ten year sentence and I turned on the 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.600 TV while I was in jail, and I saw, you know, 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.800 a conversation on the local news station about like pop 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.480 moms and these like women, um making millions of dollars 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.439 selling selling weed to like rich Beverly Hills moms. Um. 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:33.280 So there are a lot of issues of their criminal 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.480 legal system. I think this is the most one of 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.800 the most obvious examples of just the hypocrisy UM and 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.040 sort of the two systems of justice. According to like, 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.920 if you're you're white, wealthy and well connected versus if 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:46.959 you're you know, black or brown and low income, you're 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.199 treated quite differently in a very literal sense with the 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.400 with the two systems of justice. A lot of times, 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.120 for a lot of people that I'm around, sometimes it 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:01.280 just feels hopeless, Like what can be done? Like I 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.000 like to be a solution based person. What needs to 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.240 be done? What can be done at a state and 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:12.120 federal level. What's some things that people should be looking towards, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:17.320 a pushing for in their community to at least try 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:22.360 to balance this out. No, I want to be solution 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.320 oriented as well. I think, you know, this is sort 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.720 of table stakes. We need to have federal decriminalization and 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.160 ideally federal legalization both to sort of stop the criminalization 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.640 of cannabis that's happening on the federal level. Now we're 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.120 not seeing huge numbers of people sentenced for marijuana on 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.080 the federal level, but you know, a thousand a year, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.000 So we need to stop that obviously, and that's something 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.440 we can do just by a simple Act of Congress. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:51.440 But also because federal decriminalization will set a tone, you know, 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.480 for other states who have yet to decriminalize or legalize. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.840 It will help sort of read, it will help policy 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:03.520 make rethink how they're attributing and how they're distributing those 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.720 you know, burn grants, those federal funds, so we can 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.480 actually fund police to do work that makes our community 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:14.360 safer as opposed to racking up marijuana arrest. Federal legalization 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:19.680 decrimination is also really important because it will lessen a 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.200 lot of those taxes, a lot of those expenses and 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:27.720 capital expenditures happening for state regulated businesses so they can 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.000 and that's going to incentivize people to move from the 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.200 black or gray market into the regulated market and all 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:34.800 of the good things that come along without you know, 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.040 that's an increase of public health, public safety. That's something 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.560 that's really really important. We don't have like move like 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.280 people don't make moonshine anymore. Like we don't have a 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.840 we don't have bootleggers. And I think that's a really 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.240 great thing. But I don't know if you've been a 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.200 Tennessee you know, I will say my family is from 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.920 Tennessee and they have been known to throw a bat, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.880 but they have like we now have like craft moonshiners. Right, 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.960 the vast majority of alcohol sales are happening in a 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.600 way where you can where you can sort of track them, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.440 where you can make sure that underage folks aren't getting, 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.760 you know, their hands on anything shouldn't be, where you 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.280 can make sure that things are tested and regulated, and 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.880 so for and so on. Just it's a win for 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.920 everything for everyone, and that only really happens when there's 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.720 federal legalization. So you know, it's really hard to get 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.160 this Congress to agree upon anything, but I will say 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:34.200 the vast majority of Americans, Republicans, independence, Democrats, support federal 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.840 legalization and they support allowing the states to do what 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.720 they wish when it comes to regulating cannabis commerce within 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.280 their boundaries. And so we need to put pressure on 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.240 Congress to sort of heed you be responsive to the 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.840 people you seek to represent or you're claiming to represent, 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.560 and do this. And then in states that have yet 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.880 to legalize, make sure that you're pressuring your state lawmakers 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.680 to do that right and not only legalize, but do 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.160 it in a smart way. Think about the long term 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.280 implications of the policy, and make sure you're prioritizing those 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.719 criminal justice reforms. And you know, I focus a lot 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.480 on the criminal justice aspects of this issue, but they're 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.800 also real like medical and public health implications to this. Right. So, 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.560 because cannabis is a Schedule one drug, which is a 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.960 whole other story. It's a whole it's a wild story. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.479 No one can do any scientists can't do any research, 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.800 right or less they be arrested. So we don't actually 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.639 know as much as we should know about this substance 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.440 that half of American adults will consume in their lifetime. Right, 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.760 And that's, you know, in a word, a little problematic. 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.439 You know, some Israel is doing a lot of interesting research, 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.159 there's some European countries who are doing interesting research. But 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:48.000 there's obviously some medical efficacy to cannabis consumption, but we're 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:52.320 not able to maximize that. Or because we're the schedule 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.720 one designation means no one can do research. Yeah, cocaine 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.840 a schedule too drug, right, marijuana, Schedule one you can 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:04.400 do more selfly cocaine and yeah, And that's crazy because 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.040 the weed that they do test is that same weed 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.680 that's been growing at the University of Old miss Yin 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:15.560 and we've had so many leaps and bounds with what 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.399 weed is capable of doing. Now, I've seen that in 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.080 Mississippi week, I've had it. It is. It does not 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:26.840 look pretty compared to what's out there now. And there's yeah, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.640 so we don't even know what benefits there could be. 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.760 And they're still finding more molecules indo connabinoid system all 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:38.239 this stuff I'm learning, So yeah, benefits potential harms. Like 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.919 right now we're operating in this space of no knowledge um, 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.680 and that's that's going to have negative effects for everyone. 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.680 That's what's up. So go to last Nu's project or 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:56.359 get active, like you said, called your local on the state, 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.240 and everybody got to push for the field everyone. I mean, 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.240 this should be sort of Americans don't agree on anything. 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.680 They do agree on legal weed. Let's make it happen, right. Yes, 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.959 they need to know, they need to know. Thank you, 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.359 Thank you so much. This is such an important topic 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.119 and I'm really grateful that you're spending time on it. 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.520 It's something that a lot of people do not know 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.879 about and that's a shame. We got a couple of 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:29.800 bills to pay, but we'll be right back. Money money, money. Hi. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.480 I'm Jason Flam CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts, 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.560 Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.360 and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners, 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.959 to take part in the survey. Your feedback is going 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.119 to help inform how we make podcasts in the future. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.119 You're complete and candidate answers will help us continue to 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:53.160 bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.879 that impact us all. So please go to Lava for 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.840 Good dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.880 for your support. The War on Drugs podcast is sponsored 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.280 by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community that 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.440 partners with America's boldest change makers to tackle the root 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.720 causes of our country's biggest problems. Like many others who 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.879 experienced addiction, Scott Strode was using drugs and alcohol to 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.240 numb the pain. For him, it was childhood trauma. In 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.720 his early twenties, Scott was invited into a boxing gym 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.879 by a friend and that's where he discovered the healing 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:29.320 power of sport and community. In two thousand and six, 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.240 Scott founded The Phoenix, a free, sober, active community that 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.639 uses the transformative power of sport to help people treat 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.520 and heal from addiction. Scott Strode is one of many 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:44.480 entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to drive solutions and education, healthcare, poverty, 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.840 and criminal justice. To learn more of visits stand together 0:20:47.960 --> 0:21:05.440 dot org. Just waiting on this call from Edwin rubis 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.600 Yeah get to hear his story, which is one of 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.000 the casualties of the drug war. Yeah. So, um, for 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.960 those of you don't know, Edwin Rubis um is you know, 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:23.880 right now in federal prison for allegedly trafficking marijuana from 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.880 the border to Houston on conspiracy. No drugs were ever 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.360 found at his home, it was just people that were 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:35.359 arrested said that he had been transporting drugs from Okay, Okay. 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.159 This call is from a federal prison. You will not 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:45.040 be charged for this call. This call is from This 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.240 call will be recorded and subject to monitoring at any time. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:53.040 To accept this call, press five to block this call 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:57.200 in all future calls. Press seven to reject this call. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:02.919 Hang up now. You may begin speaking now. Hello, Hello, 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.240 Hi Edwin, how are you doing it? Well? How are you? 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.960 How are you doing? Man, I'm doing I'm doing okay 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:13.840 despite the circumstances. Yes, right right, This is Clayton English 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.040 and Greg glaud And you know, thank you for calling 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.800 into the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, yes, no problem. Yes, 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:22.639 I want to thank you all for the opportunity to 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.639 be able to speak a new platform. Yeah, absolutely, And 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:28.960 I know we we're short on time too, so we'll 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:30.800 get into it. So you know why don't we just 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.880 start from kind of the beginning, Um, you know how 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.680 this all occurred and transpired, you know, going a little 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.520 beforehand and what the things that you're going through. Um, 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:41.159 so just kind of tell your story and then we 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.800 can get in everything else. Okay, Well, basically, h the 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.440 golf pass force came to my house and read in 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.359 my house and told me I was being charged with 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.080 conspiracy to distribute to marijuana and right, and they found 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.840 nothing at your house, right, Yeah, I mean when they 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.720 came to my house, when they came to my house, 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.680 and basically it was early in the morning, and they 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:08.160 came and me on the floor, ransacked the house from 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:11.840 to bottom. My son was traumatized by the halivn. Of course, 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.919 my pregnant wife was confused and just sat there. They 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:16.919 didn't know what was going on, and I didn't know 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.120 what was going on at first until I was they 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:23.120 explained to me with the reason why, you know, what's happening. 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.520 And they didn't find any guns, they didn't find any drugs, 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:31.399