Speaker 1: But We Loved is a production of iHeart Podcasts and
Speaker 1: The Outspoken podcast Network.
Speaker 2: I think on the certificate it said where he was buried,
Speaker 2: and so we went to it, and I remember going
Speaker 2: down having to search on this cliff. It was very steep,
Speaker 2: so if you kind of slipped, would fall down the hill.
Speaker 2: And I had found his name plate and it said
Speaker 2: his name, Roger Vasquez, and it said beloved son, beloved uncle,
Speaker 2: and beloved father. Remember being like, wow, that was they
Speaker 2: put father on there. That one really hit me because
Speaker 2: he never got a chance to be the father. So
Speaker 2: that made me think that he really wanted to be
Speaker 2: a father and didn't get the opportunity.
Speaker 1: As a gay kid, growing up religious and in the South,
Speaker 1: I thought being gay was the worst thing I could
Speaker 1: ever be. Now, as a journalist, I'm trying to learn
Speaker 1: that by seeking out our history, and what I've found
Speaker 1: are people and stories full of courage, perseverance, and love.
Speaker 1: In this continuation of last week's episode, we'll meet Jason Prefontaine,
Speaker 1: who lost his father when he was nine years old
Speaker 1: to aids. We'll learn what it was like for him
Speaker 1: to spend his whole life longing for his dad and
Speaker 1: how decades later, fate would help him find everything he
Speaker 1: was searching for. From My Heart Podcast, I'm Jordan and
Speaker 1: Solve and this is what we Loved. In last week's episode,
Speaker 1: I mentioned how I grew up learning just how sad
Speaker 1: the AIDS crisis really was. There was loss, in grief
Speaker 1: and homophobia. But as I began diving into the history,
Speaker 1: I realized that in all of the devastation, there were
Speaker 1: these amazing stories of love, and in last week's episode,
Speaker 1: we heard one of them. Chris Pimentel told me about
Speaker 1: his first love with Roger Vasquez. Unfortunately, Roger was lost
Speaker 1: to the AIDS crisis in nineteen ninety one, but before
Speaker 1: Roger died, he had revealed to Chris that he had
Speaker 1: a son who lived in California. Before meeting Chris, Roger
Speaker 1: was married to a woman, his son's mother, but when
Speaker 1: she found out Roger was gay, she kicked him out
Speaker 1: and he never saw his son again. His son practically
Speaker 1: knew nothing about him. He was three the last time
Speaker 1: they saw each other, but Roger longed for his son.
Speaker 1: He loved him. He had left things for him when
Speaker 1: he died, and his partner, Chris hoped for thirty years
Speaker 1: to find Roger's son so he could give him those things,
Speaker 1: but he didn't know where to start. Roger's ex wife
Speaker 1: wanted nothing to do with him, so he had no
Speaker 1: contact with her. And Roger's son had a different last name.
Speaker 1: His name was Jason Prefontaine, and in this week's episode,
Speaker 1: he's my guest.
Speaker 2: I was probably about three the last time I saw
Speaker 2: my dad. It wasn't a great memory, but I feel
Speaker 2: like it's burned in my head. I remember there was
Speaker 2: a bunch of cop cars on their lawn and he
Speaker 2: ran out the front door and there are cops are
Speaker 2: running after him, and he grabbed me and picked me
Speaker 2: up and hugged me, and I just remember them pulling
Speaker 2: us apart. Who pulled you aboard the cops?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to find out later that he was getting
Speaker 2: arrested because he hadn't paid his parking tickets, so he
Speaker 2: had a lot of them.
Speaker 3: That's the last memory I have of him at that moment.
Speaker 1: So do you know why your dad left?
Speaker 2: I don't think he had a choice. I think my
Speaker 2: mom made him leap.
Speaker 1: Tell me about that.
Speaker 2: I think he was always fighting with himself to either
Speaker 2: be straight or be gay. I think he was trying
Speaker 2: really hard to stay straight for me and be in
Speaker 2: this relationship to be a dad. But I think that
Speaker 2: the struggle was too hard for him. From what I
Speaker 2: know bits and pieces that she caught him with a
Speaker 2: guy in our home and I was in the other room.
Speaker 2: She got very angry. I think, when my mom gets angry,
Speaker 2: cuts you off. You're done. So she wanted nothing to
Speaker 2: do with him. She didn't want me around him. He
Speaker 2: was just gone. I think she was embarrassed because she
Speaker 2: was in love with him, and I don't know how
Speaker 2: much he was in love with her. I remember going
Speaker 2: to court, probably when I was about five, and they
Speaker 2: were talking about custody and and he wasn't there. I
Speaker 2: just remember sitting in the court. I knew it was
Speaker 2: about their relationship ending, and they were going to talk
Speaker 2: about who I was going to stay with.
Speaker 1: And so you said he didn't come to the court hearing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he never shut.
Speaker 1: Up, and so he lost all visitation rights at that point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were gone.
Speaker 1: Did you ever wonder why he didn't sort of fight
Speaker 1: for those visitation rights or for that custody.
Speaker 2: I still wonder that in my whole life. I wonder
Speaker 2: why he never showed up. I don't think I'll ever
Speaker 2: get the answer I want to hear. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: kind of haunted me my whole life.
Speaker 1: Your mom had began to date someone else around the
Speaker 1: same time when you were pretty young. Did you ever
Speaker 1: miss Roger even though you had this new father figure
Speaker 1: in your life. Did you feel like something was missing?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Always, I never thought of my stepdad as my dad.
Speaker 3: I just remember.
Speaker 2: Him being mean and he would just get in your
Speaker 2: brain and make you think things like you were the
Speaker 2: bad person, and treated my mom horribly, and I remember
Speaker 2: one time he smacked me in the back of the
Speaker 2: head so hard I could see stars. He wasn't a
Speaker 2: great person, so I just always thought, Gosh, one day
Speaker 2: I'm going to find him and he's going to take
Speaker 2: me away from him. So I think that's probably why
Speaker 2: I never thought negatively about him, because I just he
Speaker 2: was like this, I guess prince to take me away
Speaker 2: from that, you know what I mean, like a hero.
Speaker 2: And that's why I never gave.
Speaker 3: Up on him.
Speaker 2: Even though I didn't have Roger in my life. In
Speaker 2: the back of my head, I knew he was going
Speaker 2: to be in my life at some point. I just
Speaker 2: thought Okay, once I'm eighteen, I can go find him.
Speaker 1: So in your mind, Roger was not just your dad,
Speaker 1: but kind of like a savior that would come and
Speaker 1: take you away from all of this chaos. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: were the kinds of things that your mom and family
Speaker 1: members told you about Roger, Because at this point, not
Speaker 1: only was Roger cut off, but his entire family was
Speaker 1: cut off too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had no information about his side of the family.
Speaker 2: I knew nothing about them, but I was told he
Speaker 2: would disappear for days going on vendors and he would
Speaker 2: just leave no money for my mom for groceries or diapers.
Speaker 2: So it was just always drilled into me that he
Speaker 2: was horrible, and I don't know why. I just never
Speaker 2: believed it, but that's all I ever heard was negative
Speaker 2: things my whole life. I had one picture of him.
Speaker 2: It was just me and him. I was a baby,
Speaker 2: I was probably about one one and a half, and
Speaker 2: so I had a certain image of him in my mind.
Speaker 2: So anybody that I passed by that sort of look
Speaker 2: like him, I'm like, oh, I wonder if that's him.
Speaker 2: And that happened for years. I just like, I just
Speaker 2: remember one moment being at a gas station and someone
Speaker 2: looked like him. I was in high school, and I
Speaker 2: remember just staring like, I wonder if that's him right there?
Speaker 2: And I always think about that moment, that one specifically
Speaker 2: because this man looked just like him.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned earlier that you had heard certain things
Speaker 1: about him, but you didn't really ask a lot of questions.
Speaker 1: How come you didn't want to ask more about him?
Speaker 2: I think the couple times I did ask, I was
Speaker 2: shut down pretty quickly, So I was always scared to
Speaker 2: ask anymore about him, so I would even if I
Speaker 2: would ask other family members, they quickly shut down, and
Speaker 2: I don't I didn't know why. I didn't understand why
Speaker 2: they were shutting me down. Well, I think the big
Speaker 2: secret was was that he was gay and he had AIDS,
Speaker 2: And I don't know if that was their way of
Speaker 2: protecting me or if they were protecting my mom. If
Speaker 2: I would ever bring up his name, I would get
Speaker 2: shot down. So I got to the point where I
Speaker 2: was probably too scared to ask her because she held
Speaker 2: onto that anger for a long time, like years, I
Speaker 2: mean past me being in high school, she was still bitter.
Speaker 3: So I just learned to keep my.
Speaker 2: Mouth shut for a long time there was just it
Speaker 2: was me and her, and I always just wanted her
Speaker 2: to be happy. After Roger left, my mom started dating
Speaker 2: the drummer for Rick Nelson. He was a singer from
Speaker 2: like the sixties and seventies. His name was Ricky, and
Speaker 2: I remember at the time I loved Ricky. He was
Speaker 2: very similar to my dad.
Speaker 3: It was kind.
Speaker 2: He died on the plane crash with Rick Nelson. She
Speaker 2: had another loss some of that she loved. So I
Speaker 2: remember being a little kid being like, I just want
Speaker 2: to make her happy. So I just went along with
Speaker 2: anything she wanted to do. I was quiet where we went.
Speaker 2: I was always the good little child that didn't say anything.
Speaker 2: So to bring up Roger it made her angry, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want her to be angry all the time,
Speaker 2: so I was very careful.
Speaker 1: The year is two thousand and Jason is a senior
Speaker 1: in high school. By this point, he knew he was gay,
Speaker 1: but he had no idea that his dad was gay too.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't find that out until much later. It was
Speaker 1: this year when he came out to his very conservative,
Speaker 1: very religious Mormon family. Tell me about the first time
Speaker 1: you knew you were gay.
Speaker 2: I had known I was gay since I was five.
Speaker 2: I remember being in school and I was in love
Speaker 2: with the boy next door mm hmm. And I didn't
Speaker 2: understand at the time, but I knew that you weren't
Speaker 2: supposed to be in love with a boy, but I
Speaker 2: didn't care, so I just knew. Always I was into
Speaker 2: musical theater, dancing around the house and I'd put a
Speaker 2: shirt on my head thinking it was long hair and
Speaker 2: in front of everybody.
Speaker 3: So I mean, I.
Speaker 1: Feel like everybody knew I used to do that too.
Speaker 2: I just remember watching those old romantic movies and I
Speaker 2: loved it, just movies where everybody was in love, and
Speaker 2: I just like, I want to be in love like that.
Speaker 2: And I think nobody in the family understood that. They
Speaker 2: didn't understand my love for old movies.
Speaker 1: The other piece to this is that your family is Mormon, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hardcore marks. So tell me all about that.
Speaker 3: The big time.
Speaker 2: The time I came out, it was an accident, my
Speaker 2: best friend at the time had said she confessed her
Speaker 2: love for me, and I was like, ooh, yikes, I
Speaker 2: need to tell her, but I couldn't say it to her.
Speaker 2: So I wrote her this letter and she wrote me
Speaker 2: a letter back and she had said I understand, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be there for you. I love you, and
Speaker 2: I put it on the counter in the bathroom and
Speaker 2: I left it and then I left and I went
Speaker 2: to my grandparents' house and they were gone, so I
Speaker 2: went into the pool. I was by myself with the
Speaker 2: house swimming, and I kept hearing the phone ring over
Speaker 2: and over again at the house. So I went and
Speaker 2: answered it and it was my mom and she says,
Speaker 2: I need you to come home right now. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: what's going on? And she goes, we need to talk.
Speaker 2: I said okay. So I hung up the phone and
Speaker 2: I immediately went, oh my god, the letters on the counter.
Speaker 2: So when I got home, I walked in and my
Speaker 2: mom and my stepdad arend the couch sitting with their
Speaker 2: Bibles open, and I remember being like, oh shit, and
Speaker 2: they were just reading lines from the Bible about how
Speaker 2: I'd go to hell for being gay. And then my
Speaker 2: mom said, is this what you choose? Do you want
Speaker 2: to be gay? And I like froze, and I was like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be gay. So she goes, well,
Speaker 2: we have talked to a pastor that will help you
Speaker 2: be straight.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: This is all in the matter of like a couple
Speaker 1: hours since they found the note. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2: So that weekend they made an appoyment for me to
Speaker 2: see this pastor, a Christian pastor. We showed up there,
Speaker 2: we sat on the couch and he asked them to leave,
Speaker 2: and he wanted to talk to me, and he said,
Speaker 2: are you gay? And I said yes, and he said
Speaker 2: he said, do you want to be gay? And I
Speaker 2: said yea yes, And he says, then you don't need
Speaker 2: to be here. And I only went back once, but
Speaker 2: she assumed I kept going.
Speaker 1: And so you and the pastor sort of had like
Speaker 1: a deal or a pact that you both wouldn't tell
Speaker 1: your mom the truth.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a traumatic moment in my life.
Speaker 1: Going back to Roger. Did you ever try to find him?
Speaker 2: I didn't know how, and I was too afraid to
Speaker 2: ask for help. So I remember being in the garage,
Speaker 2: I think when I was in high school, maybe early on,
Speaker 2: and I was pulling out drawers on a bunch of
Speaker 2: these file cases, probably because I was nosy because my
Speaker 2: mom had kept like old art pieces in there, and
Speaker 2: I came across this certificate looking thing, and I remember
Speaker 2: it saying Roger on it Roger Vasquez, and I remember
Speaker 2: or for a very short period, I went by Vasquez
Speaker 2: in elementary school, so I'm like, that's very similar. I
Speaker 2: knew his name was Roger and Vasquez, so it took
Speaker 2: a while for me to piece together what the Oh.
Speaker 1: You didn't even know that that was his full name?
Speaker 3: No, I just knew Roger.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was the level of you not knowing anything
Speaker 1: about this man that existed.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Nothing.
Speaker 2: I really went through the whole certificate and read the
Speaker 2: whole thing and knew that he was gone.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I found his death certificate inside the drawer. For
Speaker 2: a long time, I just kept going back to it.
Speaker 2: I just stared at it because I had nothing else
Speaker 2: of him. I just had the picture.
Speaker 1: What did it feel like when you realized that this
Speaker 1: was actually a piece of paper telling you that your
Speaker 1: dad was dead.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to believe that.
Speaker 2: Even though it said that he had passed away, I
Speaker 2: still didn't believe he was dead.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to believe that.
Speaker 2: Because I to not know him, and then to hope
Speaker 2: he was going to be there, and then he was dead,
Speaker 2: so I was never going to know him.
Speaker 3: That hurt and.
Speaker 2: It took me a while to understand what everything said,
Speaker 2: and I think it even had an address.
Speaker 1: Jason had just found his father's death certificate. He didn't
Speaker 1: know anything about his dad other than the fact that
Speaker 1: he was dead. Jason also knew that talking about Roger
Speaker 1: was taboo, so he didn't tell anyone that he found
Speaker 1: the death certificate. But on that certificate there was a
Speaker 1: clue as to where Jason might find more information about
Speaker 1: his dad. It was an address, so he got in
Speaker 1: his car and drove to it. What did you do
Speaker 1: after you found the death certificate?
Speaker 2: I think on the certificate it said where he was buried.
Speaker 2: So I went there and when I asked them, I go,
Speaker 2: here's his name, and they said it's going to be
Speaker 2: just a stone with a number. And I remember being like,
Speaker 2: that's sounds like no one cared about this person. So
Speaker 2: I said, okay. So it took a while to find
Speaker 2: it. It was like on this kind of cliff looking thing,
Speaker 2: and I finally found his number, and I remember just
Speaker 2: being sad that he was just here with a number,
Speaker 2: there was no name, nothing.
Speaker 3: He was just gone, Wow, that hurt.
Speaker 2: So I remember being like, at some point I need
Speaker 2: to get him a headstone something with his name on it.
Speaker 2: And so I don't know how long I had been,
Speaker 2: but I came back again. I just wanted to be
Speaker 2: with him. I mean, it just felt so lonely, him
Speaker 2: just being on this hill with a bunch of other
Speaker 2: people that are just numbers. So when I went back again,
Speaker 2: I go, I just need to find that spot again.
Speaker 2: Can you give me his number? And it was a
Speaker 2: different person this time, and he goes, there is a
Speaker 2: name plate and he gave me the directions to it.
Speaker 2: So I went to it and I remember going down
Speaker 2: having to search on this cliff. It was very steep,
Speaker 2: so if you kind of slipped, you would fall down
Speaker 2: the hill. And I had found his name plate and
Speaker 2: it said his name, Roger Vasquez, and it said beloved son,
Speaker 2: beloved uncle, and beloved father. And I'm being like, wow,
Speaker 2: that was they put father on there. That one really
Speaker 2: hit me because he never got a chance to be
Speaker 2: the father. So that made me think that he really
Speaker 2: wanted to be a father and didn't get the opportunity.
Speaker 2: So that was taken away from both of us.
Speaker 1: At this point, Jason, did you know that your dad
Speaker 1: had died of AIDS related complications.
Speaker 2: When I was in college. I think it was my
Speaker 2: freshman year. I was like, I need to come out
Speaker 2: to my aunt and I just wanted to tell someone
Speaker 2: in my family, and she was the only one I
Speaker 2: felt safe with that I could tell her that. My
Speaker 2: aunt is three years older than me, so we're pretty
Speaker 2: close in age. And I remember going to her home.
Speaker 2: I sat on the couch and I said to her,
Speaker 2: I just want to tell you that I'm gay. She
Speaker 2: like looked at me and says, I know. She was
Speaker 2: like duh, and I'm like, you knew. She's like, yes.
Speaker 2: We used to play dolls together. We used to sing
Speaker 2: and dance in the garage. And she had said do
Speaker 2: you think being gay is genetic? And I said I
Speaker 2: think so, and she goes, well, she goes, your dad
Speaker 2: was gay.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I smember being blown away by that. And she's
Speaker 2: and I said, well, how do you know this? And
Speaker 2: she had said she overheard a conversation my grandma and
Speaker 2: my mom had and my mom was telling my grandma
Speaker 2: that Roger had called her and said I need you
Speaker 2: to get tested because I tested positive. My aunt had
Speaker 2: overheard everything.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And for years I think she waited for me to
Speaker 2: tell her that I was gay, but finding out he
Speaker 2: was gay died of AIDS. That was so overwhelming, but
Speaker 2: I felt closer to him.
Speaker 1: It seems like you guys have a lot of parallels
Speaker 1: in the sense that you were both affected by homophobia.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how did it make you feel to know
Speaker 1: that your dad was also gay? Like you guys shared
Speaker 1: this part of your life that, in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: seems like it defined both of you.
Speaker 2: I felt validated that he was gay, and like it
Speaker 2: came from him, That's why I'm But then it was like, God,
Speaker 2: I wish he was here to help me go through
Speaker 2: being gay. I would have felt safer. I wasn't safe
Speaker 2: for a long time. I was always scared to tell
Speaker 2: anybody I was gay, But it would have been nice
Speaker 2: to have a parent support me.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, Jason was twenty three years old.
Speaker 1: He was still living at home to take care of
Speaker 1: his two younger siblings. At this point, Jason did come
Speaker 1: out to his mom, telling her he was definitely gay,
Speaker 1: and she responded by kicking him out. While he was
Speaker 1: on his own, The spark to learn more about Roger
Speaker 1: lit up again. It had been several years since he
Speaker 1: found his father's death certificate and his grave, but he
Speaker 1: still didn't know much about him other than the fact
Speaker 1: that he was lost to AIDS. And with some DIY
Speaker 1: investigation using roger His death certificate, he learned that Roger's
Speaker 1: dad was dead, but that his mom was still alive.
Speaker 1: He also found what he believed was her address, so
Speaker 1: he and a friend got in his car and drove
Speaker 1: to the address he found.
Speaker 2: I remember driving by and it was like this metal
Speaker 2: rod gate and there was like this awning over the
Speaker 2: door and it said Veasquez and I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: that's that's the home where he grew up. And we
Speaker 2: showed up to the house. The door opened and she
Speaker 2: had this bleach blonde flat top hair and like this
Speaker 2: super tailored suit on. And we walked into this house
Speaker 2: and it was like just packed with stuff, like majorly
Speaker 2: hoarded house. What's interesting though, is throughout all the things
Speaker 2: there is pictures of me as a baby. I just
Speaker 2: remember being so uncomfortable, like nothing was welcoming. It was
Speaker 2: very awkward. It kept getting more weird as I kept
Speaker 2: seeing her. I mean, I think once I found out
Speaker 2: my dad was gay, I'm like he must have had somebody,
Speaker 2: someone must have been there with him through his life.
Speaker 2: So I really wanted to know who this was. And
Speaker 2: I had no idea how to get hold of this person.
Speaker 2: And I had thought that my grandmother was going to
Speaker 2: help me with that, and she never did.
Speaker 3: And I kept asking.
Speaker 2: I go, well, I want to know more about the
Speaker 2: person that was taking care of my dad at the end,
Speaker 2: and she would use that as bait to get me back.
Speaker 2: She goes, well, next time, i'll talk to you about that,
Speaker 2: and then she would never give that to me, and
Speaker 2: I didn't understand why. And then it got strange. They
Speaker 2: thought I was like out to get their money because
Speaker 2: at one point they had mentioned Roger had put aside
Speaker 2: money for me, and I remember I asked once and
Speaker 2: I said, he left money for me. I didn't care
Speaker 2: if it was a dollar or anything, but he took
Speaker 2: the time to think about me and leave me something.
Speaker 2: I just wanted something from him, but they took that
Speaker 2: as and I just want the money.
Speaker 1: So things had gotten really awkward with the family and weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So my partner and I got married in two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight. So I called my grandmother left a
Speaker 2: message and she called me back and left a message
Speaker 2: and said that she doesn't support the idea of me
Speaker 2: getting married to my partner, and that was the last
Speaker 2: time we always spoke.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So I guess that says so much about maybe how
Speaker 1: she treated Roger and how he was treated by his family. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you ever give up on finding Chris?
Speaker 2: I mean there were moments where it was like, there's nothing,
Speaker 2: I have no information, So I kind of gave up
Speaker 2: for a while. There was moments where I was like,
Speaker 2: I guess I'm just never going to know anything about them.
Speaker 1: When we come back, Jason finally finds what he's been
Speaker 1: searching for his whole life. It's twenty twenty. Jason is
Speaker 1: thirty eight years old. He's in a loving relationship with
Speaker 1: his husband. By this point, he had also made up
Speaker 1: with his mom, but she wasn't willing to talk about
Speaker 1: Roger yet. It had been twelve years since Jason had
Speaker 1: any contact with Roger's family, and twelve years since he
Speaker 1: learned anything new about Roger. He did know that Chris existed,
Speaker 1: but he didn't know where to find him or what
Speaker 1: his name even was. But that was all about to change,
Speaker 1: and Jason's life along with it.
Speaker 2: So twenty twenty, I had noticed on Instagram that it
Speaker 2: was World Aid's Day, and like, oh, I want to
Speaker 2: post a picture, the only picture I have of my
Speaker 2: dad and me, and I kind of put a little
Speaker 2: story behind it. I had mentioned like I always thought
Speaker 2: I was going to meet him one day, and I
Speaker 2: wish I knew what his voice sounded like. And the
Speaker 2: World Aid's memorial page reached out and said, oh, we
Speaker 2: love that picture of your dad and your story.
Speaker 3: Can we posted on our page?
Speaker 2: And I want to say, either that same day or
Speaker 2: the next day, I got a message from someone named
Speaker 2: Chris saying that I know your dad. So we talked
Speaker 2: a little more, and then I think he had sent
Speaker 2: me a couple of pictures he had of my dad,
Speaker 2: but because I only had the one picture of my dad,
Speaker 2: he didn't look familiar anymore in these pictures, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know about this. So by this time, my
Speaker 2: mom had been a little more open about talking to
Speaker 2: my dad about my dad a little bit. So I said,
Speaker 2: why this guy reached out to me and said he
Speaker 2: was with my dad and he sent me these pictures.
Speaker 2: So I showed my mom, I go, is this Roger?
Speaker 2: And she immediately was like, it's Roger.
Speaker 1: Well, walk me through that first phone call that you
Speaker 1: had with Chris. What was that like? This is the
Speaker 1: same man that you've been searching for for years.
Speaker 2: I remember him telling stories about their love and positive things.
Speaker 2: I'd never heard positive things about Roger. He had told
Speaker 2: me he loved old movies. Yeah, when he said he
Speaker 2: loved old movies, I'm like, Oh, someone that's just like
Speaker 2: me in the family m like because I never understood
Speaker 2: why I liked that stuff. And when he said that,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: What Jason didn't realize yet was that Chris had been
Speaker 1: searching for him. They both couldn't get to each other
Speaker 1: because of Jason's parent and Roger's parent, and they didn't
Speaker 1: have enough information for the Internet to be helpful either.
Speaker 1: But as fate would have it, they found each other.
Speaker 1: Before Roger died, he kept a box of things that
Speaker 1: he wanted Jason to have. Chris held onto that box
Speaker 1: for thirty years, hoping one day to give it to Jason,
Speaker 1: and that day had finally come. So now tell me
Speaker 1: about the first time that you met Chris. What was
Speaker 1: that like?
Speaker 2: He came down to LA and I was coming up
Speaker 2: there to meet him. I was so nervous. I just
Speaker 2: remember my heart was racing the whole time. And when
Speaker 2: he finally came out, he was so warm and he
Speaker 2: hugged me, and I remember him taking a moment and
Speaker 2: staring at me. He kind of went, oh, I need
Speaker 2: to take a second. I'm like, do I look like him?
Speaker 2: And I remember him saying, yeah, you do look like him.
Speaker 2: I think the whole day became this blur because I
Speaker 2: was giving getting so much information that whole day. I
Speaker 2: didn't want it to end, but it was like a blackout.
Speaker 2: It went by so fast. And we went to the
Speaker 2: Aids Moyle wall and he had said he put his
Speaker 2: name on it, and it was like we kind of
Speaker 2: searched for it. And then right in this front wall,
Speaker 2: right in the center, was Roger's name and that was
Speaker 2: emotional because to see his name on something.
Speaker 3: It was a lot.
Speaker 1: What was it like when and Chris gave you the box?
Speaker 1: Tell me that story?
Speaker 2: So it was at that same park. We went and
Speaker 2: sat at a table. He would just kind of slowly
Speaker 2: pull things out and we started with the pictures and
Speaker 2: it was like pictures I'd never seen. It was pictures
Speaker 2: of me and him, and he had these two little
Speaker 2: picture frames and he says, your dad picked those picture
Speaker 2: frames specifically for those pictures, so he had touched them
Speaker 2: and put them together, and that that was pretty amazing, Like.
Speaker 1: The last time that those items were touched were.
Speaker 3: By your father. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean that was amazing.
Speaker 2: He had said that he wished he could have been
Speaker 2: a father to me. He talked about me all the time.
Speaker 3: That really hurt. That one hurt.
Speaker 2: And then he like started pulling out little things. He
Speaker 2: pulled out his watch, He pulled out this ring. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you can see, but this ring that
Speaker 2: I'm wearing is still wear at every day. This is
Speaker 2: a really beautiful ring. And I immediately put it on
Speaker 2: and I wore the rest of the day. I didn't
Speaker 2: want to take it off.
Speaker 3: Wow. I mean he it was on his fingers.
Speaker 2: So that's as close as I'm going to get to him.
Speaker 1: What was it like kind of processing all of that?
Speaker 1: I mean, from my perspective, it's like you've gone your
Speaker 1: whole life not knowing anything about this man.
Speaker 2: There was this picture he showed me my dad sitting
Speaker 2: in a graveyard, and I remember he was He's very
Speaker 2: frail in this picture, and he was just looking off
Speaker 2: at the at the gravestones, and Chris had said, yeah,
Speaker 2: that was getting to the point where he was starting
Speaker 2: to get really sick. It's such a sad photo. And
Speaker 2: I the next morning after I met Chris, I was
Speaker 2: going through the photos again and I saw that picture.
Speaker 3: And I lost it. That was such a sad.
Speaker 2: Picture and he just looked so tiny, and I wish
Speaker 2: I could have been there.
Speaker 3: That one really hurt.
Speaker 1: Like for you in that moment, that's when it all
Speaker 1: became real how he was the victim of this really
Speaker 1: horrendous disease, but also the victim of homophobia as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that moment affected me. It changed me
Speaker 2: that whole, just that one photo. I mean, he didn't
Speaker 2: deserve that. From what Chris tells me, he was so
Speaker 2: full of life, and that horrible disease just took that
Speaker 2: away from him.
Speaker 1: How do you feel when you look at the ring
Speaker 1: every day?
Speaker 2: This is the closest I feel to him. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm wearing he's a part of me now every day.
Speaker 2: I think I never stop loving him ever, even when
Speaker 2: I heard bad stories about him, But to know that
Speaker 2: he wanted me.
Speaker 3: Makes me love him even more.
Speaker 1: This is a show about history, but it's really a
Speaker 1: show where we talk about a lot of love. And
Speaker 1: I wonder what you think the love story is here?
Speaker 2: Gosh, I feel like there's so many love stories in
Speaker 2: this moment. I mean, the big one for me is
Speaker 2: learning about the love my dad have for me and
Speaker 2: the love I'll always have for him. And the fact
Speaker 2: that Chris and I found each other is the other one.
Speaker 2: And even though it took so many years to find him,
Speaker 2: it felt so quick after I posted that picture, so
Speaker 2: it was like it was meant to be.
Speaker 1: And it's a complicated story. I think. On this show,
Speaker 1: we've talked about AIDS and how it was defined by
Speaker 1: loss and shame and homophobia, and you were sort of
Speaker 1: a victim of that intersection of all those things kind
Speaker 1: of coming together at once your dad being excommunicated and
Speaker 1: then dying because of AIDS. But then you have this
Speaker 1: other amazing story with Chris, him keeping the box of
Speaker 1: memories and love for you for thirty years. And in
Speaker 1: your mind, is this a sad story or does this
Speaker 1: have a happy ending?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll never get all the answers, but at
Speaker 2: least I got to know the person he was. I mean,
Speaker 2: the sad part is I'll never hear my dad's voice,
Speaker 2: I'll never get to touch him. But the happy part
Speaker 2: is that Chris brought my dad back to me.
Speaker 1: But We Loved is hosted by me Jordan Gonsolvus. New
Speaker 1: episodes every Wednesday. If you want to write in to
Speaker 1: tell your story, email us at Buttweloved at gmail dot com,
Speaker 1: or send us a message on Instagram or TikTok at
Speaker 1: but We Loved. We are a production of The Outspoken
Speaker 1: Podcast Network and iHeart Podcasts. But We Loved was originally
Speaker 1: developed with Pushkin Studios. Our producers are Shein O Zaki,
Speaker 1: Michael June, Emily Meronof and Joey patt Our. Executive producers
Speaker 1: are me Maya Howard and Katrina Norville. Fact checking by
Speaker 1: Marisa Brown. Original music by Steve Bone. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: Jay Brunson and Markel Willis. If you loved this episode,
Speaker 1: leave us a rating and follow us on Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: and Spotify, and thank you for listening. I'll see you
Speaker 1: next week.