Speaker 1: Welcome to Inside Active, a podcast about active managers that
Speaker 1: goes beyond sound bites and headlines and looks deeper into
Speaker 1: that processes, challenges and philosophies and security selection. I'm David Cohne,
Speaker 1: I lead mutual fund and active Research at Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 1: Today my coast is Athanasius Sarah Vegas, ETF analyst at
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2: Ethan, thanks for joining me. Yeah, man, thanks having me on.
Speaker 1: So we were recording live from the Exchange conference in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas hosted by Beta five. So I do want
Speaker 1: to thank Todd brosen Booth and the folks of Betterfi
Speaker 1: for having us. We are joined by our old friend
Speaker 1: Todd Son, Chief ETF Strategists at Strategists Asset Management. Todd,
Speaker 1: thanks you for joining us today on the sunny day.
Speaker 2: Hey, it's great to be with you guys.
Speaker 1: So this episode's gonna be a little different than our
Speaker 1: typical Inside Active.
Speaker 2: I'm going to actually.
Speaker 1: Ask you both questions as opposed to Ethan and I
Speaker 1: kind of going back and forth, and so I want
Speaker 1: to kind of get the current state of active ETFs
Speaker 1: and then at the end we'll do a lightning route.
Speaker 1: So Todd let's start with you, what flow has surprised
Speaker 1: you most this year?
Speaker 2: So to start an active you're at twelve percent of
Speaker 2: assets and forty percent of year today flows. I don't
Speaker 2: know if any category specifically surprises me, but it's the
Speaker 2: balance right year to date or the trail or trailing
Speaker 2: year fourtune and twenty billion equity, three hundred and eighty
Speaker 2: to fixed income, and two hundred and seven billion to
Speaker 2: option incomes. Right, So this is everywhere, This is not
Speaker 2: just cornered into one area. I think that's the breath
Speaker 2: of it is really impressive. What do you think, Eithan?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I kind of agree with Todd. Nothing
Speaker 3: really sticks out. So like you're saying flows into international
Speaker 3: Emerging Markets v X, you know it's passed, but like
Speaker 3: av EM has taken in quite a bit of money,
Speaker 3: you know, some of the optional overlays. So honestly, I
Speaker 3: don't think there's anything that shocking and active. I know
Speaker 3: it's not a debate with Todd, but I kind of
Speaker 3: agree there there's not really anything that stands out. What
Speaker 3: about like anything that should be getting closed but isn't.
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I would love to see more to
Speaker 2: active small cap because small cap industies are flood right
Speaker 2: Russell two thousand, which I think we all refer to,
Speaker 2: was it forty percent unprofitable zombie companies galore? And yeah,
Speaker 2: there's moments in market regimes where you actually want Russell
Speaker 2: two thousand exposure, Right, you want to go out and
Speaker 2: buy junk. But as a cycle's mature and the credit
Speaker 2: backtop changes, I like having an active manager to be
Speaker 2: at the wheel to find those companies that eventually grow
Speaker 2: up in graduate of the bigger induscy. So I would
Speaker 2: like to see more activity down there. Okay, so I'll
Speaker 2: start again, Todd, what what's over hype right now? Not
Speaker 2: to btfs, it's oh, it's overhyped. I don't. We're sitting
Speaker 2: in front of a live batch of people are exchanged
Speaker 2: which are you sure I might get in trouble? So
Speaker 2: there's two area. I think it's derivative based stuff, right.
Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating that in the last three years,
Speaker 2: option income ETFs have taken it more than divin and ETFs,
Speaker 2: so the way investors are getting income has changed. Does
Speaker 2: that mean it's overhyped? I think certain segments of it
Speaker 2: are right, Single stock income ETFs, I think are overhyped,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of issues in terms of the
Speaker 2: tax front, and then I don't know buffers. I don't
Speaker 2: know buffers. Depending on who I'm talking to, strike a chord.
Speaker 2: Some people love them and some people are like, I
Speaker 2: don't get it, and they're an eighty billion dollar category
Speaker 2: and I they're a little complex for me, and I'm
Speaker 2: wondering how much more ceiling there is. I get it
Speaker 2: that they're coming from the structured outcome space and that's
Speaker 2: a big area, but I don't know. I think there's
Speaker 2: so many other alternatives now in the income space and
Speaker 2: the downside protection space that I wonder if maybe that's
Speaker 2: the overhype area.
Speaker 3: Even yeah, I think with overhype, I know the leverage
Speaker 3: stuff that counts as active, that for sure, because you
Speaker 3: see all these filings coming out. It's companies that already
Speaker 3: have an ETF on them, So I don't really get
Speaker 3: what the advantage is. They're like, why are you launching
Speaker 3: another two x TESLA ETF that exists out there already,
Speaker 3: So unless you're literally competing on price point, but I
Speaker 3: don't even know if that's even a big advantage in
Speaker 3: something like single stock leverage buffers too, I think are
Speaker 3: a little bit overhype. Not the strategy, but the number
Speaker 3: of products that are out there.
Speaker 2: That's definitely it's.
Speaker 3: Getting really kind of saturated product wise.
Speaker 2: The buffers are the minions of the ETF industry, the
Speaker 2: little yellow guys, right, there's like a thousand of them
Speaker 2: and there's no difference. So this is more marketing than flows,
Speaker 2: you think in terms of it's such an easy message
Speaker 2: or an advisor, and I get it right, It makes sense,
Speaker 2: especially if you are an older generation. You're close to retirement,
Speaker 2: you're scared of an eighty seven moment, right, or you're
Speaker 2: about to buy a house or a boat.
Speaker 3: You want the downside protection. Yeah, yeah, I think they
Speaker 3: agree with Todd. They're like really easy to sell, kind
Speaker 3: of taking the place of lovall, maybe even eating some
Speaker 3: of your bond exposure. So, like I said, you know
Speaker 3: your outcome, right, there's no surprises. And whether or not
Speaker 3: they're efficient and that's like a done a debate, but
Speaker 3: I think that I get why people investors want to
Speaker 3: use these.
Speaker 1: So eighth, I'm gonna start with you on this one.
Speaker 1: Are we in a golden age of active ETFs or
Speaker 1: just a hot streak.
Speaker 3: Oh man, I mean this is great. We do have
Speaker 3: more active ETF than passive. Again that includes all the definitions.
Speaker 3: Is not just like alpha seeking stock pickers. Probably, I
Speaker 3: think Golden age. I think when you know, with the
Speaker 3: ETF fool making active more conducive and easier, cutting costs down,
Speaker 3: having an index provider, things like that, I think it's
Speaker 3: definitely going to be, you know, opening the door for
Speaker 3: more active. Then you have share classes coming to again,
Speaker 3: another big floodgate opening for active Golden age assets. And
Speaker 3: I don't know, but products probably like this is probably
Speaker 3: the start of just some massive influx of more active
Speaker 3: same question.
Speaker 2: I think it's got to be Golden Age, right, And
Speaker 2: the backdrop for me, I agree with everything insane. You
Speaker 2: got share classes, you have conversions. Everyone is coming into
Speaker 2: the pool now because they realize that's where the flows
Speaker 2: are going. Right. ETFs treat money better, largely speaking the
Speaker 2: mutra funds. But for the other art angle of this
Speaker 2: is we are in an environment where and I know
Speaker 2: everyone probably doesn't like this topic. Ten stocks make up
Speaker 2: forty percent of the S and P five hundred. If
Speaker 2: you're on large cap blend, if you on large cap growth,
Speaker 2: if you're own quality momentum, you own the same stocks, right,
Speaker 2: So this is where active and depending on if it's
Speaker 2: large cat, midcaps, wall cap international, right, having a handed
Speaker 2: the wheel to at least differentiate or diversify portfolios. I
Speaker 2: think that's so important. And I as much as the
Speaker 2: concentration might be coming off a boil, it could come
Speaker 2: right back in a given environment. So I don't see
Speaker 2: it slowing down. This is literally everyone is in the
Speaker 2: pool here in Vegas.
Speaker 1: But if the regime changes, like say, we see less volatility,
Speaker 1: but could the momentum fade a little bit?
Speaker 2: You probably see it slowed down. Like, I wonder if
Speaker 2: that forty percent of your today flows number start goes
Speaker 2: down to thirty percent. But I think you have a
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's a floor now in the twenty
Speaker 2: five percent area, right, whatever the number is, I think
Speaker 2: there's a floor on flows. And we just have to
Speaker 2: figure out what the celia is.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Todd, I'm gonna start with you on this.
Speaker 1: What act did ETF change the game?
Speaker 2: Is it? Arm Jep's a good question. It has to
Speaker 2: be ARC because they were the first one to say, hey,
Speaker 2: we're going to show you. We're literally going to email
Speaker 2: you our trades every single night. We're gonna be transparent
Speaker 2: about our holdings. And they proved you that an active
Speaker 2: equity fund can work in the ETF matter. And this
Speaker 2: was before the ETF rule of all that. I think
Speaker 2: it has to be them. And then once JP Morgan
Speaker 2: had Premium Income come out, they showed that, hey, derivatives
Speaker 2: in ETFs in an active matter are also going to
Speaker 2: be important because people on income they went downside protection,
Speaker 2: they want leverage all that. So that would be the
Speaker 2: you know, the the second leg of the change in the.
Speaker 3: Game was your pick, Ethan. I mean, Ark is a
Speaker 3: good one. That's probably the best pick, honestly, because then
Speaker 3: it kind of completely dismantled, like semi non transparent ETFs
Speaker 3: and all that. All that model then just became like
Speaker 3: obsolete when you know, Kathy was out there putting our
Speaker 3: holdings daily. But I'd say, if I had to pick
Speaker 3: another one, I think that whole buffer category not change
Speaker 3: the game. But it created a brand new category, which
Speaker 3: I think is so rare to see in ETF. So
Speaker 3: it's there's very little white space. So to have a
Speaker 3: new product come out and literally create a brand new category.
Speaker 3: They became really successful. I think that was a big
Speaker 3: game changer, and they think that just feeds into what
Speaker 3: was Todd was saying was just the ability to put
Speaker 3: derivatives in ETFs. I think that was definitely a big
Speaker 3: whether you don't want to define that as active, but
Speaker 3: that definitely, you know, change the game a lot.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's an if you're CEO of an issue and
Speaker 1: you could launch your own active ETF tomorrow, what would
Speaker 1: it be.
Speaker 2: That's a scary thought.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know three x no, okay, just depending seeing
Speaker 3: where the market is now and when there's white white space,
Speaker 3: I'd probably try to crack the private equity like you
Speaker 3: know it probably work on something there just because you know,
Speaker 3: like we mentioned, there's there's more active ETFs than passive.
Speaker 3: I don't want to go into buffers is probably really
Speaker 3: competitive option overlay and covered calls that so is that?
Speaker 3: So I think private equity, if you can get a
Speaker 3: jump on it and get in to that category pretty early,
Speaker 3: I think that could be a game changing ETF. I
Speaker 3: would be mentioned similar to ARC, but so I'd probably
Speaker 3: be trying to focus in that in that space, would.
Speaker 2: You launch God, if it's already launched, is out a problem.
Speaker 2: I put on my Fatigua's hat. I'm just gonna copy
Speaker 2: somebody tigus Macro Thematic Opportunities ETF Thematic Diversification, Right, that's
Speaker 2: what I would launch. It is live, not to be
Speaker 2: the promo here, but it takes thematic funds and it
Speaker 2: puts them all in one fund together rather than taking
Speaker 2: the single theme risk. So that's what I would launch,
Speaker 2: even though it is live. I stay o by that.
Speaker 2: If TRTIGAZ did not exist, what would I do? I
Speaker 2: would do something in the derivative space because there's still
Speaker 2: a lot of opportunity there and it fits both channels,
Speaker 2: retail and institutional. Right. Retail loves income. The institutions want
Speaker 2: the how to hedge, how to protect.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you think active ETFs are competing well with
Speaker 1: mutual funds or passive ETFs right now?
Speaker 2: Eighthan you go first, I think both.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it's just it's still the same argument, like
Speaker 3: active versus passive, but now it's just all being moved
Speaker 3: over into the ETF. So yeah, it's I think it's
Speaker 3: competing with everyone. You know, passive for sure. I think
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's a head to head competition.
Speaker 3: I think it's just evolving to live alongside passive, right.
Speaker 3: So a lot of the active stuff we're talking about,
Speaker 3: you know, buffers or see you know, leverage single stock,
Speaker 3: that's not going to be a core position, right, sort
Speaker 3: of like a satellite position alongside passes. So I think
Speaker 3: that's how they're sort of learning to live.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, it's just this is all just the
Speaker 3: you know, the money moving over from mutual funds and
Speaker 3: the ETFs, so you're kind of competing with everything. And
Speaker 3: then also I think the thing to mention obviously ETF
Speaker 3: trading is so high even though it's a passive vehicle, right,
Speaker 3: people just constantly trading these passive ETFs. I think in
Speaker 3: a way that's active too, right, So they're also maybe
Speaker 3: kind of competing on that level.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think in ETFs everyone's competing with everyone all the time.
Speaker 2: I fairn I agree with Athanasios I wonder I do
Speaker 2: lean though towards the passive, right, because we know, largely speaking,
Speaker 2: all the money that's coming out of active equity mutual
Speaker 2: funds is probably going to passive That's been a function
Speaker 2: of zero percent interest rates in the last decade and
Speaker 2: some other market mechanics. So now you have to negotiate
Speaker 2: with an advisor. You know, you have your core, but
Speaker 2: you should consider this active as either a replacement or
Speaker 2: a compliment. Like you need to get the dollars away
Speaker 2: from the core now, which is largely passive, into active.
Speaker 2: So for me, I think, if I'm really choosing one,
Speaker 2: it's the passive index funds because they're too good of
Speaker 2: a deal.
Speaker 1: Okay, but if we if we single out just you know,
Speaker 1: if we've got traditional active which is security selection versus
Speaker 1: kind of the new active which is to fly an
Speaker 1: outcome leverage and things like that, you don't think there's
Speaker 1: any movement with the traditional like styles and the active
Speaker 1: ETFs kind of taken away from passive at all or
Speaker 1: just more of a compliment.
Speaker 2: I think it varies on where you are, Okay, honestly,
Speaker 2: Like like we could go, we could do a tour
Speaker 2: around this conference, and some people say, well, I don't
Speaker 2: like passive because it's skewed. Some people are I don't
Speaker 2: like active because sometimes I don't trust the managers. You know.
Speaker 3: I think with a lot of the stuff that's come out,
Speaker 3: it's sort of like switched. Before it was like we
Speaker 3: mentioned Kathy, would you invest in the fund? You investing
Speaker 3: the stock pickers, right, But I think a lot of
Speaker 3: the ETFs have made you the stock pickers are sort
Speaker 3: of like replacing a lot of that traditional stockpicking and
Speaker 3: you're doing it yourself. So that's why I think some
Speaker 3: of the successful active stuff is not that stock picking
Speaker 3: security selection active. It's the derivatives, it's the leverage, it's
Speaker 3: kind of that stuff. So I think in a way
Speaker 3: that's you've stopped subbing out that stock picking ability and
Speaker 3: just investors are doing it themselves.
Speaker 2: But unfixing come side. You still see your role they
Speaker 2: fixing active. It's interesting because you know, you follow the
Speaker 2: mutual fund and full as closely active fixing commutical, but
Speaker 2: you still don't know, right yep. And yet there is
Speaker 2: a massive amount of active fixed income ETFs and they're
Speaker 2: doing well too. But it's like both sides of the
Speaker 2: industry are winning there. Yeah, right, a littly unique.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good point. They've been pretty safe, right,
Speaker 3: bond managers in mutual funds from the you know, competitive
Speaker 3: you know, like intrusion of ETFs.
Speaker 1: For sure, what part of the active ETF story hasn't
Speaker 1: played out yet, so you can answer this question what
Speaker 1: part has not played out yet?
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's fixed income maybe, you know, let's
Speaker 2: see in ETFs active fixed income I think is about
Speaker 2: twenty two twenty three percent of assets. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: still pretty good. But I just wonder if you're in
Speaker 2: this different rate regime than we've been in the last
Speaker 2: forty years, and that's gonna be where the opportunity. Yeah,
Speaker 2: now tricky parties. I don't know what's going on private credit,
Speaker 2: what the implications does that have. Maybe having an active
Speaker 2: manager might make sense then, but I think there's more
Speaker 2: to go there. It's just a matter of where is
Speaker 2: it coming from, because if it's not coming from utral,
Speaker 2: it's got to be sourced from another area too, Right,
Speaker 2: But there's so many incredible exposures now in active fixed income.
Speaker 2: The due diligence process is going to be really competitive.
Speaker 2: But I think that that's one area. I'm sure if
Speaker 2: James Safer here you say crypto by the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't, yeah, don't don't remind them. What do you
Speaker 3: think an Yeah, I think bonds is a good point because, uh,
Speaker 3: they were doing active bond ETFs for a while, right,
Speaker 3: like some of their ones have been really really early
Speaker 3: on products. I don't know if some of it's just
Speaker 3: because tax wise, it's not a huge advantage to being
Speaker 3: an ETF and versus a mutual fund on the bond side,
Speaker 3: just because you know how income gets distributed and whatnot.
Speaker 3: But could also be what Toddo was mentioning just kind
Speaker 3: of the rate regime. So that area, for sure, I
Speaker 3: think probably could be developed. I think also issuers kind
Speaker 3: of pivoted away from focusing on bond ETFs for a
Speaker 3: while just because you know, buffers had come online and
Speaker 3: people kind of get annoyed with the egg after twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two, so they're like, hey, you know, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to be focusing on bonds as much. So there's that,
Speaker 3: and then yeah, maybe like alts, like you know, I know,
Speaker 3: hedge funds, you know, people weren't buying all ETFs, like
Speaker 3: you know, in huge numbers. But I think if someone
Speaker 3: can maybe figure out a decent old space, if you
Speaker 3: want to put crypto in that profile, fine, but sort
Speaker 3: of like you know, how can we get like true
Speaker 3: alts in an ETF could be an interesting on tap.
Speaker 2: I like the managed futures. I'm a little bit of
Speaker 2: a junkie with that. Try me. I have a CMT, right,
Speaker 2: I like trends. I don't know how big the managed
Speaker 2: future space is an estimate neutral funds, but it's tiny
Speaker 2: and ETFs and depending on the environment, Like right now,
Speaker 2: managed futures have outperformed the Q since October. Right there's
Speaker 2: a place for them. So I have to imagine that's
Speaker 2: another big, huge area of opportunity going forward. So where
Speaker 2: you think about it.
Speaker 1: As a baseball game, and you take active ETFs all encompassing,
Speaker 1: whether in traditional or the newer styles, what in.
Speaker 2: And were you in man the second third? It's early, okay,
Speaker 2: I mean I think it's super early, encompassing super early.
Speaker 3: I was ben going little further like fourthly, but we're
Speaker 3: not out of like the seventh in stretch yet or
Speaker 3: anything like that. But I was gonna, uh, but there's
Speaker 3: gonna be a lot. It'll be interesting to see how
Speaker 3: much like we can always launch products, right, but how
Speaker 3: that asset transfer works and how successful they're gonna be
Speaker 3: in raising assets. I think that is still we have
Speaker 3: to see kind of more in that. But I think
Speaker 3: said twelve percent twelve percent of assets, and what was
Speaker 3: the percentage of flows forty percent, that's pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and obviously the end every year that flows total folds
Speaker 3: keep going up, right, So it's forty percent of a
Speaker 3: growing number. But again, is that enough to justify that
Speaker 3: half the market, more than half the market is active ETF?
Speaker 3: So you know, so I still agree that we're early on,
Speaker 3: but I don't know if we're whether in the market.
Speaker 3: You know, kind of induces this, but we see like
Speaker 3: rationalization a little bit too, right, because you know, we
Speaker 3: did a panel yesterday, it was a thousand plus these
Speaker 3: TF launches. I mean, there's a quite a bit closures,
Speaker 3: but nothing like the ratio that we've seen from launches.
Speaker 3: So at some point some of these might need to close, right,
Speaker 3: which is I don't know how many can actually be
Speaker 3: like supported.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I got one last question before we get
Speaker 1: the lightning round, so you can do this one first.
Speaker 2: What actually makes an active ETF stick differentiated portfolio or
Speaker 2: a differentiated solution? Like why am I offering it?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Okay? If it's stocks, I just need something that's uncorrelated
Speaker 2: or just different than the mag seven or I'm offering
Speaker 2: a solution like a buffer or option income or tail
Speaker 2: risk right, hedged equity, That to me is what makes
Speaker 2: it stick if it's just kind of run of the
Speaker 2: mill chasing performance. But you can get an active thematic
Speaker 2: funds single themes. That is, you're gonna get slippage when
Speaker 2: the time runs out.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think that was a good answer, But I'm
Speaker 3: gonna say the performance, I think Kathy is why that
Speaker 3: product was so successful. But to Todd's point, you can't
Speaker 3: control investor timing, right, So yeah, she had the good
Speaker 3: performance run people piled in later the performance sort of
Speaker 3: you know, didn't do as well, so maybe your experience
Speaker 3: with it might not be as great. But the reason
Speaker 3: she got really popular was because of performance. But then
Speaker 3: to his point about buffers, that's not a performance story, right,
Speaker 3: that's a solution story.
Speaker 2: So I think.
Speaker 3: Kathy also had a solutions story too. She was creating
Speaker 3: a new category like innovators, right, Like that didn't really
Speaker 3: exist before Kathy. So if you're gonna be like a
Speaker 3: stock picking one, it's got to be performance. If you're
Speaker 3: gonna be something like derivatives or options overlay, it has
Speaker 3: to be some sort of uh, you know, Todd mentioned
Speaker 3: some solution based thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's time for our lightning round, Todd.
Speaker 1: You're our guests, so you're gonna go first, okay, And
Speaker 1: actually the first question you touched upon a little bit.
Speaker 1: And so the question is active small cap ETFs? Are
Speaker 1: you bullsh or cautious?
Speaker 2: Super bullish? All in? Okay?
Speaker 1: Great?
Speaker 2: What do you think? Yeah? Bullish?
Speaker 3: It was just like performance you think or is it
Speaker 3: like m I have a lot to ask questions.
Speaker 2: You just can't head yourself.
Speaker 3: You ask in little uh, I guess both on the
Speaker 3: maybe performance and like you know product that can that
Speaker 3: potentially come to market? Yep, but either way bullish Okay.
Speaker 3: The next one is buffer the ETFs. Is it crowded
Speaker 3: or is it still runway left crowded? More crowded than
Speaker 3: a Vegas night club on Saturday night.
Speaker 2: What do you think that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a kind of a dull lightning round
Speaker 3: because I agree to this is a it's crowded.
Speaker 2: Raithan and I are cut from the same cloth where
Speaker 2: I was listening very much.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we can align on a lot of stuff,
Speaker 3: but I'd say on the crowded product wise, yes, assets
Speaker 3: probably can grow a little bit more there.
Speaker 2: But I think there's definitely a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of products, and I know this is a lightning on
Speaker 2: like one more thing to that. You have not seen
Speaker 2: buffers from guard maybe you never will, but I'm just
Speaker 2: I'm just throwing it out there. Let's just never thought
Speaker 2: of that. I'm just throw it out there. Right. You
Speaker 2: got some people from my shares there they launch buffers.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a good food for so you know, I
Speaker 1: think we've all seen the robot out on the floor.
Speaker 2: So the next question is AI related When.
Speaker 1: You think of AI AI driven active strategies, is does
Speaker 1: that really provide a real edge right now?
Speaker 2: Or is it just kind of marketing. We've had that
Speaker 2: Watson ETF for almost a decade. I don't know the
Speaker 2: performance off the edge, but I don't think it's been magnificent.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's gonna be like certain models would
Speaker 2: do better than others, and it's gonna be dependent on
Speaker 2: the guy who writes the models, like some crazy PhD
Speaker 2: was smart and all three of us combined. I probably
Speaker 2: more lukewarmonta though. Okay, I like you. I like the
Speaker 2: human touch. Okay, what do you think?
Speaker 3: Why don't you have the robot on the podcast?
Speaker 2: Isn't it tod I'm be hosting pretty soon.
Speaker 3: I think it's overhyped out the under I don't think
Speaker 3: it's gonna be able to provide you like a meaningful
Speaker 3: edge in like outperformance.
Speaker 1: Okay, and the last question, I already know our boss
Speaker 1: Eric Beltunez's answer to this, but I'm curious on.
Speaker 2: Both of yours.
Speaker 1: It crypt no direct indexing versus active ETF a compliment
Speaker 1: or a.
Speaker 2: Competitor compliment, a high net worth compliment. Okay, uh yeah, compliment,
Speaker 2: the the retail the reddit, retail Reddit guy person trader.
Speaker 2: They don't they don't need that. They want to know
Speaker 2: where the next big move is coming from and how
Speaker 2: to play it through leverage in an ETF. No, that's
Speaker 2: just my thing. I think direct thing is it's great
Speaker 2: for certain individuals, not for the mass. Yeah, I agree,
Speaker 2: I think and Eric has brought this up four too.
Speaker 3: And obviously you see, like there are five thousand ETFs, right,
Speaker 3: we mentioned like if you can't find what you need
Speaker 3: in that five thousand, you know, I feel like it
Speaker 3: covers a lot of strategies. You know, while it's not
Speaker 3: like exactly custom, you can pretty much do almost everything right.
Speaker 3: And it's too good of a deal. ETFs are just sufficient,
Speaker 3: they're cheap. I just think it's really really hard to
Speaker 3: come in and dislodge that.
Speaker 2: So I'm what's he says? He does the Jerry maguire right,
Speaker 2: show me the money he does with that, or show
Speaker 2: me the flows like that? Shout out Derek, Well, this
Speaker 2: was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Todd, thank you for being.
Speaker 2: R that's my pleasure. I enjoyed this very much. And Nathan,
Speaker 2: thank you for reading myke ohs for this one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm glad. I just agreed with everything Tod.
Speaker 1: It's said basically, and I also want to thank our listeners.
Speaker 1: If you like the episode, please share, subscribe, and leave
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Speaker 1: This is David comb with It's that active
Speaker 2: St