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Speaker 1: Well, Hey Angel fans, welcome back to Halo territory. I

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Speaker 1: am Mike di Giovanna, former La Times Baseball writer and

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Speaker 1: host of the show, joined by my regular co host

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Speaker 1: Mark Trumbo, the former Angels slugger, and we are honored

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Speaker 1: to have a very special guest today, Joe Madden, the

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Speaker 1: former Angels manager. Joe, how you doing today?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. No more special than you, two guys.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that. Appreciate that so.

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Speaker 1: Joe spent thirty years in the Angels organization, including twelve

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Speaker 1: as a big league coach from nineteen ninety four to

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, before becoming Tampa Bay's manager in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six. He spent nine years with the Rays,

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Speaker 1: leading them to the Al Pennant in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: before moving on to Chicago, where he led the Cubs

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Speaker 1: to the twenty sixteen World Series title, breaking that franchise

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Speaker 1: is one hundred and eight year championship curse. Joe returned

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Speaker 1: to Anaheim in twenty twenty and spent two and a

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Speaker 1: half years managing the Angels before being fired on June seventh,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. That team was twenty seven and twenty

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Speaker 1: nine at the time. They were actually twenty seven and

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Speaker 1: seventeen on May twenty fourth, before losing twelve straight games,

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Speaker 1: and they have gone two hundred and fifty four and

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Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty eight since, a winning percentage of

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Speaker 1: four to twenty nine. So first question, Joe, do you

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Speaker 1: feel a little scapegoaded by an organization that has clearly

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Speaker 1: not gotten better since you were fired?

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Speaker 2: Oh? My, you know, honestly, when I went back there,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to go back there. I wanted to go

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Speaker 2: back to Anahem. I had opportunities to go to other organizations,

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Speaker 2: possibly at least an interview for jobs, but I wanted

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Speaker 2: to go back to the Angels because I was an Angel.

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Speaker 2: I grew up as an Angel nineteen seventy five, signed

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Speaker 2: out of the Wichita tournament started the next year. Quat

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Speaker 2: City's Ayoway actually become a scout and a manager. Saw

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Speaker 2: it all the way through, So the ascension of the

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Speaker 2: minor leagues, eventually a World Series in two thousand and two,

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Speaker 2: and then just our real turnaround of everything. So I

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Speaker 2: leave for a couple of years. You know, I'm very

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Speaker 2: grateful for Tampa Bay and of course Chicago, but it's

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Speaker 2: like going to Hazelton High School. I considered the Angels

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Speaker 2: like Hazelton High or even Loafia College. Right, That's that's

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Speaker 2: where I came from. That's I was eleventh Street, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to go back there because I knew what

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Speaker 2: we were like. I knew the kind of player we had,

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Speaker 2: and I thought it was gritty. I thought it was gritty.

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Speaker 2: I thought we were fundamentalists. I thought we played the

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Speaker 2: game right and hard. It was nobody wanted to play

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Speaker 2: the Angels. Nobody, And I asked the asked the Yankees,

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Speaker 2: these beautiful Yankees of the late nineteen nineties and early too,

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Speaker 2: that they did not want to play the Angels. So

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Speaker 2: I wanted to bring that style of ball back. And

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Speaker 2: I thought we were. We hit a bad moment. We

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Speaker 2: hit a bad moment. Yes, a lot of There was

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Speaker 2: a lot of things dictated to me within that twelve

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Speaker 2: game losing Street. You know, that was just the way

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Speaker 2: of the baseball world right now out And so I'm

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Speaker 2: not blaming it. I'm not playing it on that. I'm

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Speaker 2: not blaming it on me. We just didn't we didn't

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Speaker 2: pitch well. We didn't do a lot of things well

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Speaker 2: for twelve games. If it's stunk. However, I absolutely a

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Speaker 2: thousand percent believe have you been left alone, the difference

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Speaker 2: in the record between that moment and what you just

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Speaker 2: read off would have been dramatically different.

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Speaker 4: Well, it sounds like there was a lot of positives

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Speaker 4: and then there was losing straight as you mentioned, and

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Speaker 4: I know that you had, you know, done something to

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Speaker 4: inspire the club, and we're you know, it's been talked about,

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Speaker 4: but unable to really showcase that. We're talking about the haircut.

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Speaker 4: I guess the question is was there some relief? I know,

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Speaker 4: and I'm almost guarantee you are someone who wants to

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Speaker 4: see things through, so being let go in the middle

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Speaker 4: of a season is less than ideal. But was there

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Speaker 4: any friction with some of the analytics that were coming down?

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Speaker 4: I know, I know you've talked about it in the past,

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Speaker 4: but as someone who pioneered a lot of this in

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Speaker 4: many ways, it seems like maybe certain parts of it

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Speaker 4: were overdone. The meetings were going way longer than they should.

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Speaker 4: I know as a former player, day to day meetings

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Speaker 4: that last twenty minutes or more that you lose the

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Speaker 4: guys immediately. It's very hard to stay in tune and

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Speaker 4: it seems like you were getting a lot of pushbacks.

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Speaker 4: So what was there any relief you were kind of

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Speaker 4: able to separate from that environment.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, first of all, you're right. I

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Speaker 2: mean I've been into analytics before analytics became popular, even

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Speaker 2: in the eighties and nineties. I did my own version

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Speaker 2: of it, and when I'm bench coach from Marcel and

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Speaker 2: then TC and the eventually so I had my own

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Speaker 2: version of it up on the board. And actually, if

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Speaker 2: I showed you the work I did in that timeframe

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Speaker 2: compared to what's being done right now, it's very similar,

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Speaker 2: other than the fact that more sophisticate it now because

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Speaker 2: they were able to scout every game, So that was

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Speaker 2: the primary difference. And again, it's not it's not about

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Speaker 2: receiving analytics. I wanted it, and I asked for it,

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Speaker 2: and I and I always post questions to try to

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Speaker 2: fine tune whatever I got, whether uh, you know, with

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Speaker 2: the rays and then eventually with the cubbies, I was,

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Speaker 2: you know, I have questions, and yeah, I did question

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Speaker 2: a lot of what was given to me because your

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Speaker 2: eyeballs don't lie, and then sometimes they do, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you have to, like you make a suggestion, or

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Speaker 2: you make a statement and they give you like a

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Speaker 2: piece of paper with some numbers on you. Oh, oh,

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Speaker 2: I was wrong. I saw it differently so that it

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Speaker 2: works both ways. But with the with the angels. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just I want stuff. I want information. Give it me,

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Speaker 2: all give it to me. I'll give it. Give it

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Speaker 2: to me by three o'clock and after I prefer it.

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Speaker 2: Like in the morning I went the Cubbies. I got

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Speaker 2: a PDF in the morning with all the stuff. I

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Speaker 2: would sit in a coffee shop on chest it right

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Speaker 2: down from the water Town, Chicago little Cuban coffee shop

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Speaker 2: with my headphones and my iPad and I would I

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Speaker 2: would do everything. And they had They also had an

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Speaker 2: app called Ivy. The Cubs had this thing. With this

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Speaker 2: I could have. I could have previewed any batter, any

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Speaker 2: picture in any game for the last couple of years

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Speaker 2: if I because I wanted to see when they when

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Speaker 2: they gave me a number, a matrix number on a

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Speaker 2: hitter versus a pitcher, I wanted to see why, and

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Speaker 2: you know, like the swing plane of his swinging, the

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Speaker 2: shape of the pitch. All these different things were important

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Speaker 2: to me, and especially when I didn't know anybody with

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Speaker 2: my own eyeballs. So uh, yes, they became too intrusive.

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Speaker 2: I don't like people in my office. Shoot, even an

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Speaker 2: hour before the game, when I was in internim manager

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Speaker 2: there with Billy Vivasi, I told Billy, I said, I

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Speaker 2: don't want anybody in the office an hour before the game.

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Speaker 2: I'm getting ready. I don't need any more interference. I

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Speaker 2: don't need any more information unless I ask for it.

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Speaker 2: You've already given me all you got, so that's it.

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Speaker 2: So I think with the front offices need to understand

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Speaker 2: now and analytical departments. There's got to be a timeframe

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Speaker 2: where you are permitted downstairs to a certain time. I'm

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Speaker 2: saying two thirty maybe three o'clock at the most, and

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Speaker 2: then after that go back to your offices, go back,

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Speaker 2: start accumulating more information. You don't belong in a clubhouse.

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Speaker 2: You don't belong in a room, a meeting room right

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Speaker 2: next to the coaches room. You don't belong there. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: but you don't. You have a job to do, and

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Speaker 2: we have a job to do. And when everybody does

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Speaker 2: their jobs separately and well, good things occur. But when

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Speaker 2: groups want to impose on other people's jobs, that's when

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Speaker 2: things start to break down. And that's what's going on

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Speaker 2: in the modern game right now. Joe.

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Speaker 3: It's as angel fans know all too well.

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Speaker 1: It's been a decade of futility for them, ten straight

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Speaker 1: losing seasons. Now they haven't reached a playoffs since twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Two part question extremely loaded. Why have they been so

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Speaker 1: bad for so long? And how do they turn this

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Speaker 1: thing around?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think part of it is, and I think

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Speaker 2: Mark could attest to this. The infrastructure is not good.

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Speaker 2: I'm just talking about basically the the facilities at Anaheim Stadium,

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Speaker 2: the facilities in Mesa or Teesti, Tempe, which got better

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Speaker 2: by just moving from the ballpark upstairs. Eventually the major

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Speaker 2: league team took over the minor league facilities, which was

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Speaker 2: backwards to begin with. So there's part of the infrastructure itself. However,

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Speaker 2: I will defend once we got downstairs to the minor

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Speaker 2: league spring training complex, which was at one time, like

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Speaker 2: I said, the Major League was less than it became better.

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Speaker 2: I'm not denying that. But you walk in Anaheim Stadium,

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Speaker 2: in the locker room itself, and the way everything is

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Speaker 2: set up. It's just if you look at their weight

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Speaker 2: room and training abilities. They're batting cages, all that stuff

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Speaker 2: compared to I mean I was with the Cubbies. I

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Speaker 2: mean the Cubs were the big leagues of the big leagues.

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Speaker 2: That's just quite frankly, that's what they are. And I

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Speaker 2: can't I mean, when it comes down to money, amount

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Speaker 2: of money you have and how much you want to spend,

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Speaker 2: don't just focus on bright, sexy, sexy objects, shiny ought

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Speaker 2: to objects. Focus on the things that are very non sexy,

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Speaker 2: things that really make a difference. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: that has to do with how you set up your

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Speaker 2: players to succeed on a daily basis. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's where the Angels have been short right down to

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Speaker 2: the locker room facilities. Like I said, the way training facilities,

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Speaker 2: batting cages, masa, everything about it is substandard compared to

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Speaker 2: what's going on in the world today. So I think

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Speaker 2: it starts right there after that's it just arrived at

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Speaker 2: a culture, arrived at a functioning culture and a philosophy

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Speaker 2: of who we are and how we want to do this.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's been arrived at. There's no set way,

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Speaker 2: which there was in the eighties when I was running

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Speaker 2: the minor league system. We built that fabulously. Look at

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Speaker 2: our record of putting guys in the big leagues at

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Speaker 2: that time, gets into the nineties. We made a good run.

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Speaker 2: We fell apart with Seattle, however, we knocked on the

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Speaker 2: door very loudly, and then TC. When TC was there,

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Speaker 2: we came close every year. Finally So shows up and

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Speaker 2: honestly brings a Dodger culture there. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: what Dodger culture is. Fearlessness. It's real baseball. It's not

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Speaker 2: worried about making mistakes. It's fundamentalism. And that's what Sosh

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Speaker 2: brought with him himself. Sosia's main attribute for me was

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Speaker 2: the fact that he was fearless. It's kind of like

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Speaker 2: David Parker. David Parker, Larry Boa, my favorite major league

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Speaker 2: coaches that ever worked with, and it comes out to

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Speaker 2: one thing, fearlessness. They're not intimidated by anything, social, never

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Speaker 2: worried about answering a tough question ever. Ever, So pulled

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Speaker 2: the Buttoner pushed the butner pulled the string based on

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Speaker 2: what he thought was the right thing to do in

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Speaker 2: that moment. Lisorda did the same thing, et cetera. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not here to glorify the Dodgers because I hated them.

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Speaker 2: I hated them an instructional league. I hated their white uniforms.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to beat them so badly. You know, right

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Speaker 2: now Andrew's there, So and Andrews showed whatever. But I

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Speaker 2: hated the Dodgers. I did everything. I disliked them. But

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Speaker 2: there was a lot to like about them, based on

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Speaker 2: just one word. Never worried about making a mistake going

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Speaker 2: out there and playing, trying to do the right thing

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Speaker 2: in the moment, and if it didn't work out, if

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Speaker 2: it was a good baseball play, so what turn the page.

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Speaker 2: So she's really good at that. So once he left,

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Speaker 2: that's what you're missing, this level of consistency set philosophy.

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Speaker 2: Whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: if there's a strong culture in place and people buy

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Speaker 2: into it. If you look from outside and people are

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Speaker 2: gonna accuse it of being wrong or they should be

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Speaker 2: doing this differently or better. But so she never worried

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Speaker 2: about that, and that's why they were successful while he

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Speaker 2: was there. That's what's been missing. That was what I

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Speaker 2: was attempting to do, is to bring back a culture

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Speaker 2: of fearlessness fundamentalism. Playing the game right right now. They

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Speaker 2: don't even didn't even care about mind leagues. They get

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Speaker 2: they bring guys to the big leagues way too soon.

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Speaker 2: They're always they're always trying to justify the draft. Those

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Speaker 2: are the kind of things that are getting in the way.

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Speaker 4: It's an incredibly thorough answer, and I much appreciated it.

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Speaker 4: Reminded me of the days at gen Autry Park with

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Speaker 4: Jeter Hines telling me and so, you know, to your point,

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Speaker 4: he never minded the physical mistakes. Aggressive physical mistakes were

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Speaker 4: part of the deal. He wanted you to go out

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Speaker 4: there and lay it on the line. The mental mistakes

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Speaker 4: were another area. You you know, basically, I was under

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Speaker 4: the impression if you were to miss a sign in

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Speaker 4: the big leagues, you were gone. That was how serious

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Speaker 4: that that type of stuff was. The attention to detail,

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Speaker 4: and I haven't seen that for many, well at least

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Speaker 4: of the last couple of years. One area that I

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Speaker 4: wanted to ask you about this is not so much angels.

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Speaker 4: It's really more broad. But I've had some spirited debates

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Speaker 4: with a friend of mine who has risen to the

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Speaker 4: ranks of a bench coach.

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Speaker 2: In the major leagues.

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Speaker 4: But He's told me it's more about the process these days,

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Speaker 4: and I said, what are you talking about. It's about winning.

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Speaker 4: The big Leagues is about winning, and he said, no,

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Speaker 4: you're wrong. It's about the process. And I've talked about

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Speaker 4: it on the show a few times, but I think

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Speaker 4: you might be qualified if any of that makes sense.

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Speaker 4: The Big Leagues, to me, is only about one thing.

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Speaker 4: At least that's the way it was taught to me.

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Speaker 4: Were there to win. We're there to win a World Series.

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Speaker 4: Only one team does every year, but that is the goal,

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Speaker 4: and then the minor leagues are for development and the process.

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Speaker 4: In air quotes, can you expand on that a little

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Speaker 4: bit if you have any thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't finish the they didn't finish the statement

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Speaker 2: I used to say, the process is fearless, meaning that

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Speaker 2: if you stick with a process or the process whatever

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Speaker 2: that might be, what it means to you, that would

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Speaker 2: then permit you to attack a situation fearlessly because you've

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Speaker 2: done all the right things in order in advance of

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Speaker 2: the moment and there should be some comfort involved in that.

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Speaker 2: So that's where the process me and Ken you revisit,

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Speaker 2: talked about that a lot. Kenny didn't necessarily like that

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Speaker 2: phrase as much the process is fearless, But to me

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Speaker 2: it made all the sense in the world because if

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Speaker 2: I stayed with my process, I'd never be concerned about

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Speaker 2: taking chances. The last part that they're omitting is if

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Speaker 2: you stick with the process and build these these these

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Speaker 2: building blocks annually, to me, that would lead to a

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Speaker 2: pile of wins because that meant to me that you're

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Speaker 2: you're systematically doing the right things on a daily basis,

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Speaker 2: you were eliminating mental mistakes. That's what I the game.

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Speaker 2: The uh mental physical mistakes have a part, big part

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Speaker 2: in the game. Mental mistakes have no part in our game.

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Speaker 2: So if you stay with the process and build on

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Speaker 2: that meaning that you know, this goes A, goes before BB,

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Speaker 2: goes before c et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, if

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Speaker 2: you do that daily, then that's going to permit us

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Speaker 2: to put that nice pile of victories that keep adding

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Speaker 2: up as the season goes on. So if you just

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Speaker 2: want to focus and rely on the process, it's like

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Speaker 2: it's it's like the analytical world. Analytics provides a safety

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Speaker 2: net for decision making. So if you just stick to

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Speaker 2: the analytics and it concludes that you don't do well

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Speaker 2: if you just stay with it for a while, Eventually

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Speaker 2: it's gonna work out. The same with these people. If

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Speaker 2: you're talking about the process, the process standing alone provides

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Speaker 2: a safety net for not being successful because I got

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Speaker 2: a process, I'm staying with it, and thus at some

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Speaker 2: point it's gonna work out. There's a part of that

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Speaker 2: it is that is true. However, when you become satisfied

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Speaker 2: with just that, and that's the that is the problem.

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Speaker 2: My only concern is that I work my process well

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Speaker 2: and there's no real concern about winning, then you totally

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Speaker 2: misconstrued what That's what we're talking about right there. So

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Speaker 2: I think a fearless process done well on a daily

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Speaker 2: basis leads to winning because it leads to not being

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Speaker 2: concerned about making mistakes. I have done my prep. The

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Speaker 2: hay is in the barn, as Kenny used to say,

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Speaker 2: and I could go out there and play you know,

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Speaker 2: balls out, not worried about making mistakes if it's the

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Speaker 2: right baseball, if it's if it's right to throw behind

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Speaker 2: the runner at first base with you know, play run

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Speaker 2: around first and second, say for instance, double play situation

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Speaker 2: is still in order. But this guy first base is

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Speaker 2: getting huge leads. It's a great time for the catcher

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Speaker 2: to backpick in order to keep him closer so that

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Speaker 2: we can complete a double play and not get my

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Speaker 2: short stop killed. Now, if the catcher makes that throw

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Speaker 2: and it goes down the right field line, I'm upset.

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Speaker 2: It was the right thing to do in that moment.

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Speaker 2: Run around third base infield in okay, and this this

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Speaker 2: runner is taking this enormous secondary lead at the third

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Speaker 2: base in order to try to get a jump and go.

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Speaker 2: That's another great time to backpick at third base. As

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Speaker 2: an example, if that ball goes down the left field line,

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Speaker 2: I'm not upset because it was the right thing to

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Speaker 2: do in the moment. And that's where analytics really falls short,

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Speaker 2: because none of that is taught.

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Speaker 1: Joe, what's the toughest part of the game to coach currently?

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Speaker 1: It seems like pitching has an incredible amount of resources

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Speaker 1: and hitting is always frantically trying to catch up, and

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Speaker 1: most hitting coaches are lasting under two years.

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Speaker 2: Right now, stop blaming them, please. You know, if you want,

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Speaker 2: if you want better hitters, either draft them or buy them.

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Speaker 2: You know who good hitters are. It's really hard to

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Speaker 2: take a guy that has not really been successful and

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Speaker 2: make him successful in the major league level. Number One,

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Speaker 2: analytics absolutely slants towards the pitching side of things. It's

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Speaker 2: a proactive part of the game. The hitting is the

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Speaker 2: reactive part of the game hitters. And not only that,

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Speaker 2: I mean with the velocity where it is right now

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Speaker 2: and the sharpness of breaking balls, having to commit sooner

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Speaker 2: in order to get your swing started against certain kind

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Speaker 2: of velocities makes it even more difficult. It's just more difficult.

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Speaker 2: It's a very difficult thing to do. So stop blaming

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Speaker 2: hitting coaches, blame your process. At when is somebody going

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Speaker 2: to start blaming the acquisitional process. That's really what it

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Speaker 2: comes down to. When you rely on hitting coaches to

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Speaker 2: take somebody that's deficient. One of the most efficient things,

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Speaker 2: the most difficult things to do is to teach some

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Speaker 2: you know, the discerning between balls and strikes, organizing your strikes,

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Speaker 2: and that's not easy. When we were there in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and two and we won, that was something that

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Speaker 2: I was into. If you go back and read all

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Speaker 2: the stuff that I wrote before then, I was about

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Speaker 2: balancing my walks to strikeouts. That was a big thing

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Speaker 2: for me among my hitters, a two strike approach or

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Speaker 2: really big thing. I called it the b hack, really

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Speaker 2: big thing about what I did as a hitting coach

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Speaker 2: that is not necessarily taught anymore. So. When you're constantly

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Speaker 2: trying to get hitting coaches to take somebody who really

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Speaker 2: is not a lot of it's just not ready to

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Speaker 2: be there, keep them in a minor league a little

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Speaker 2: bit longer. Supply the minor leagues with more efficient and

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Speaker 2: better hitting coaches as opposed to just an iPad or

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Speaker 2: data information or video, because that's really what it comes

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Speaker 2: down to. I want you know I had. I had

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Speaker 2: merv Retman, had Bennie Hines, Gosh, I had so many

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Speaker 2: Bob Clear, I had so many great hitting coaches that

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Speaker 2: I came up with Rick Down and was able to

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Speaker 2: pick their brains. And they're the guys that made me

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Speaker 2: a better as I was hitting coach and in my LEAs

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Speaker 2: for seven years. To just rely on data information and

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Speaker 2: the like and consider yourself a hitting coach, and that's

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Speaker 2: what they're relying upon right now, to me, is absolutely wrong.

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Speaker 2: Criticize your acquisitional process. Go through that first before you

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Speaker 2: start criticizing coaches. Because a lot of times the acquisitional process,

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Speaker 2: which is where I would want to use analytics more

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Speaker 2: than anywhere, would be in that because that's where you

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Speaker 2: could really comp and compare in November December, look under

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Speaker 2: the hood, what are we missing on this guy? What

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Speaker 2: does that guy have that we're missing? That's where you

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Speaker 2: want it season in progress? Trust me, it is so

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Speaker 2: overrated when the season begins. It's accurate with defense, no question,

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Speaker 2: I give it to me. I want in order to

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Speaker 2: play my shorts up against Mark Trumpbell, Absolutely I do.

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Speaker 2: And I'm playing you what It's going to be very successful.

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Speaker 2: And and I want where where shall I shift with

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Speaker 2: two strikes? What does he kind of adjustment does he

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Speaker 2: normally make with two strikes? It's there pitching, Yes, what

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Speaker 2: is where? What do I want to attack Mark? Then

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Speaker 2: the strikes? So what do I want to attack them

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Speaker 2: with two strikes? And this is individually versus right head

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Speaker 2: and left handed pitchers, and the same thing on what

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Speaker 2: do I want to play my shorts up? It all

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Speaker 2: goes against rights and left These things change. Everything fluctuates

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Speaker 2: just based on handedness too. So there are certain components

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Speaker 2: of this that are really accurate. And I want absolutely,

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Speaker 2: I want give it to me versus what we're doing.

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Speaker 2: But then there is the nebulous part of it. And

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Speaker 2: when you start, like before the game, tell me what

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Speaker 2: relief pictures can or cannot pitch and where you want

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Speaker 2: me to slot them. All the time my starting pitches

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Speaker 2: the third time through the batting order, I got to

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Speaker 2: pull him out. Why if he's pitching really well, why

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Speaker 2: has that not been nurtured in the minor leagues. We've

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Speaker 2: taught the guy to go the third time through and

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Speaker 2: have him understand maybe you got to hold back something

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Speaker 2: the first time through the batting order in order to

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Speaker 2: really feel comfortable the third time through the batting order.

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Speaker 2: And how about just emptying the tank in the first

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Speaker 2: couple of three four innings because all I want is

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Speaker 2: elevated velocity with a lot of spin, and there's no

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Speaker 2: pitch ability talked about whatsoever. There's so many there's there's

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Speaker 2: so many discrepancies with this. And after all, if it

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Speaker 2: all came down to his analytical approach, why would any

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Speaker 2: team be under five hundred? There should be like just

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Speaker 2: one big major leaguees worth of five hundred if the

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Speaker 2: information is always so good. And that's where it comes

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Speaker 2: down to the the acquisitional process. That's it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: nobody talks about this stuff, but that's really where it's at.

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Speaker 4: I would agree one hundred percent. I can answer those

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Speaker 4: questions on my personal scouting how to pitch without an

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Speaker 4: ounce of analytics. Experience taught me a lot of that.

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Speaker 4: Jared and I actually we were talking about going deeper

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Speaker 4: into games the on the pitching side and having a

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Speaker 4: third pitch and a word command, which has all but

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Speaker 4: disappeared as catchers set up down the middle now by

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Speaker 4: and large, and there's a lot of goofy stuff going on.

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Speaker 4: This question, though, is about where have all of the

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Speaker 4: ex players gone on coaching staffs. I'm wondering if front

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Speaker 4: offices view the majority of X players, is there a

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Speaker 4: stereotype of them being outdated? Are they not hip to

429
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 4: the new protocols with the weighted balls and you know

430
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 4: batting tees if anyone remembers what those are.

431
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 2: By the way, most really.

432
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 4: Good hitters use one, and I was a big proponent.

433
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 4: But to each their own. I just don't see ex

434
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 4: players being hired. I see guys from the outside from

435
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 4: facilities and other places that really haven't earned their stripes,

436
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 4: you know, getting promoted to the major leagues ahead of

437
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 4: guys that have been toiling away for a long time

438
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 4: trying to earn their shot.

439
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: Do you have any thoughts on that.

440
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of insulting in a lot of ways.

441
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: And my biggest concern is who's passing the game along,

442
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: which would just talking about with the ex players as coaches,

443
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 2: who is passing the game along? That was so vital

444
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: to me. And I know I get some kickback on

445
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: all this stuff where people will get annoyed when I

446
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 2: say things like this because times have changed. Oh really,

447
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: the moment you stop thinking experience, feel and intuition matter,

448
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: you're setting yourself up for failure absolutely on a minor

449
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: league level right now, which is really considered kind of

450
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: almost like a courtesy just to like park some guys

451
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, and development really isn't part

452
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: of it. That's why you see all these orchestrated pregame

453
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 2: batting practices and stuff starting at three o'clock in the afternoon.

454
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 2: Does nothing but tire guys out. These are major league

455
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 2: players that are not a ball or double A guys

456
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 2: that you're trying to get to the big leagues. I'm

457
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 2: so against the orchestrated, choreographed pre game on a daily basis.

458
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: I can't even begin to tell you. I prefer guys

459
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: coming to the ballpark later. I prefer less work before.

460
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: I prefer a arrested mind and body going into a

461
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: major league game with adequate amount of time allotted for

462
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 2: getting loose and whatever study you need. I promise you

463
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: show Hey does not need these volumes of analytical information

464
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: before every game. I promise you that's not true. I've

465
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: heard recently. I mean, like last night at dinner, and

466
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 2: I knew this to be true. Like major league guys

467
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: will go into different cities, former major league players, star

468
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: players with different organizations, and they'll go in and they'll

469
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 2: hang up by the batting cage or be there a

470
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 2: spring training for a bit. As they get there, they're

471
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 2: immediately told, Okay, why you're here. Please, we don't want

472
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: you to speak to any of the hitters about anything

473
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: about hitting and pitchers. Please. I love having you here.

474
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: It's wonderful to have your great but do not speak

475
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: to our pictures about anything regarding pitching, mechanics, methods, whatever

476
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: that you might have. We really don't want that true.

477
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: This is not all made up stuff. This is true.

478
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: I recently befriended a lady by name of Laura Wong.

479
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: I got some information about a she recently wrote, You've, You've,

480
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: You've already, you already know. She's a professor at Northeastern

481
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 2: University in Boston. Fascinating woman, and her book is great

482
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: and pretty much it really comes down to she's advocating

483
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: for and defending experience, intuition, feel, gut, feel. Especially she's

484
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 2: she's defending it, and she's and she's got examples, and

485
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: it's talked to CEO, CEO, CFOs, all the heads of

486
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: different corporations throughout and defending the fact that these really

487
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: do exist. This, this other sense or ability to recognize

488
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: what's the right thing to do in the moment exists

489
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: outside of math. And it's a really well played book.

490
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 2: It's it's a great read. I actually I'll wake up

491
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: some mornings and I'll have a thought, write down this

492
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: long elongated text or email, and I'll send it to

493
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 2: her and I want her feedback. I want to know

494
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: what she thinks about it. And so she her explanation

495
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 2: and her research is so clear on where experience falls

496
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: in intuition and gut field falls in high level decision

497
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: making and how important it is to have that independent

498
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: of math. Listen always, I always want, I always want

499
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: the numbers given to me. Throw me that stack, give

500
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: me reams of it, but just permit me then to

501
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: call it down, and then permit us as a coaching

502
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: staff to call it down to the point where we

503
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: then distributed among our players who we know who can

504
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 2: handle stuff and who cannot. Meetings can be laborers and boring.

505
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: It's one hundred and sixty two game season. You need

506
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: to cut that time element down. You need to That's it.

507
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody, they're all working today being in everybody,

508
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: every organization is working from the same sheet of music.

509
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: Because it's pretty much a competition among front offices, probably

510
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 2: even more so than it's a competition on the field.

511
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 2: That's where it's gotten to. So I will argue this

512
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: with anybody any time. I'm looking for that first group

513
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: that comes back and in corporate rates tried and true

514
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 2: methods with the incorporation of new data and stuff. But

515
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, one voice should be

516
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 2: heard in a dugout on the field, in the clubhouse,

517
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: the manager has been kind of castrated to a certain level,

518
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: and right now the front office has really ruled the roost.

519
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 2: Managers have turned into middle managers. They no longer have

520
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: the same authority to say what they think when they

521
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: want to say it and express it the way they

522
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 2: want to, because they have to run it through this

523
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: this sieve, this this of information, this that that that

524
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: the louteser extrapolates information down through the bottom that eventually

525
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: is permitted or not permitted to be set truth. That's

526
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: all truth.

527
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: Speaking of managers, Joe, the Angels just hired Kurt Suzuki,

528
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: and what are the challenges challenges of being a first

529
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: time manager because teams seem more willing than ever to

530
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: go with youth and and let's be honest, you know cheap. Uh,

531
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: they're saving a bunch of salary. What are the challenges

532
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: of a guy like Kurtsuzuki coming into this situation.

533
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it really is a classic contemporary

534
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: method of leadership, which is control over empowerment. I've definitely

535
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: concluded that there was a time when I was coming

536
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: up any job I got, even as a youngster, I

537
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: was empowered to do my job. Larry Hines was my

538
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: first scouting director. And tell you what, he was in

539
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: LA and I was over here and I was over

540
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: in Mesa. And regardless of that separation, he permitted me

541
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: to do my job, but he definitely monitored my job

542
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: every day, made me send in a week's worth in advance.

543
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: Where am I going, Who am I going to see?

544
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: I had to write down who the scouts were at

545
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: every place that I went to, blah blah blah whatever.

546
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: But when it came to writing my reports, I wrote

547
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: my reports based on his guidance, like pointing things out

548
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: to me. But at the end of the day, when

549
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: I saw Timmy Samon or Chad Curtis or Jackie Hall

550
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: or Kirk mccaskell or all these guys was signing, I

551
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: got to write my own report. That was my report

552
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: based on the stuff that I had learned as a player.

553
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: And then with with Larry Luke, Cohen Auer and all

554
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: these dudes, Lloyd Christopher, all these great scouts, Gene Thompson

555
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 2: that I met with, So I was never coerced into

556
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 2: putting something down. It was always my stuff. And when

557
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: you learn how to grow your own stuff, then you

558
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: actually know things. When you're always appeasing, ameliorating somebody else

559
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: in charge being that is controlling you. You never really learn.

560
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: You don't know what you know. You don't really know anything.

561
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: You just know you're regurgitator. And so that's that. So

562
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: that's part of why the younger generation is being hired

563
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: without experience. Number two, I like Kurt a lot. Having

564
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: said all that, we had a great relationship there as

565
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: a coach, manager, and catcher. He's really he was wonderful

566
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: to exchange ideas with daily. He's a really good game call.

567
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: He's he's fearless on the field, man, solid man. Go

568
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: out to the mountain, talk to him. Everything was great,

569
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: All that was in order, all that was in place.

570
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: First time manager for me, and what that was Idaho Falls,

571
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one, twenty seven years of age. I had

572
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: thirty two players on my team. Eight of them spoke

573
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: Spanish only, and I was it. I didn't have a

574
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: first base coach, third base coach, pitching coach. The year

575
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: of a strike who came into town. Mike Port came

576
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: into town, Preston Gomez came into town. Warren Spaond was

577
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: our minor league pitching coordinator and I guess, yeah, IRV Marveless,

578
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: Murv Redmond was the minor league hitting coach at that time.

579
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 2: That was it. So you're in Idola Falls, thirty two dudes.

580
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: We got stopped. Our bus was we're going into Canada

581
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock or whatever at night. There was nobody at

582
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: the border there to check the passports of our kids.

583
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: We had to spend the night there at the border. Okay,

584
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: that was the minor league baseball. That's what we did.

585
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: And you had to somehow figure that out, and you

586
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: had to work through that. The time that Kachman, Tommy Kauchman,

587
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: I was with them. They're going to Eugene, Oregon. Their

588
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: rooms weren't ready because we drove all night from Boise

589
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: get there like seven eight in the morning. Rooms aren't ready.

590
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: I happened to be with them, and I went on

591
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: the bus. I didn't fly because I need it to

592
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: be on the bus, so I said, let's go. We

593
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: went over to the Oregon coast. I slapped on an

594
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: American Express card, which I listened. I had no money

595
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: at that time, but I know I was going to

596
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: expense it. And then you have the Boise Hawks staying

597
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: on a beautiful hotel on some kind of beach in Oregon.

598
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: These are the kind of what is I know that's

599
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: not baseball, but it means everything. It means everything. You

600
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: have to learn how to create in a very negative situation.

601
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: So that's the only way I can conpare with Zooks

602
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: going through is I got to go back to eighty

603
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: one with Dicky Schofield, Devon White. Those are my big

604
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: guys on that team, and what that was like, no

605
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: pitching coach, no First Bay coach, no throwing regular BP,

606
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: throwing extra like whatever. So that's the difference. And then

607
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: when you do do that, you grew up knowing what

608
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: you know. I used that phrase a lot, but it's true.

609
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: You can't be a regurgitator. There's too many regurgitators in

610
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: the game. People really don't know truly what they think

611
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: they know, or that what they regurgitators say because they

612
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: haven't lived it. And so when I say it's kind

613
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: of insulting, I'm not hammering whomever is in that position.

614
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,959
Speaker 2: I want Zooke to be successful. I want the fellow

615
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: Videlo I want to be I want all these guys

616
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: to be successful. But if you're asking me honestly what

617
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: I think about it. If I retrace my history and

618
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: I knew how important all these steps were to me,

619
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: I could never have helped the Cubs win the World Series.

620
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:38,719
Speaker 2: Never Idaho falls the old ballpark? What a dumb correct. Absolutely,

621
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 2: but there.

622
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: Were many of those, and you had to fight your

623
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 4: way out of it. Are you saying that often heard

624
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: if you don't like it, get better?

625
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: Uh?

626
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 4: And you've already answered this all pivot a little bit.

627
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 4: Instructionally we used to and I think maybe you were

628
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 4: part of this, have to write down if you were

629
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 4: an adder, a subtractor, or a neutral. If you weren't

630
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,719
Speaker 4: part of that, you probably might agree with it. But

631
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 4: it was self evaluating for minor league players, and I

632
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 4: was put neutral for I was talking to Aplora's the

633
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: other day about it. Hopefully you know, people thought I

634
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 4: wasn't too delusional. At one point I did think I

635
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 4: turned the corner and maybe was capable of putting adder.

636
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 4: But that was part of the cultural stuff that I

637
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 4: saw coming up, that you needed to sometimes be very honest,

638
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 4: and I think that's the feedback that always helped me

639
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 4: the most, was brutally honest feedback, even how you speak

640
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 4: to people and come off Apparently I was came off

641
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 4: as a know it all, and Craig gray Beck, in

642
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: no uncertain terms, told me to figure it out and

643
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 4: change that. And it seems in the game now that

644
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 4: that is very unlikely to happen. Players don't want the

645
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 4: tough criticism. I think there's a fear they're going to,

646
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 4: you know, curl up and disappear on you. And it

647
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 4: seems like a very challenging time to manage personalities, and

648
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 4: especially with your background and you know, experiencing those tough

649
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 4: places to fight your way out of, and now this

650
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 4: culture at least, you know, in my opinion, it's I

651
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 4: don't want to say soft, but it's different.

652
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: If I tell you the truth, you might not like

653
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 2: me for a week or ten days. If I like

654
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: to you, you're gonna hate me forever. I recently went

655
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: back to the Cubs convention, right we were celebrating twenty sixteen,

656
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: and you know, I didn't know what to expect overall.

657
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I knew it was going to be a celebration.

658
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: It was gonna be happy, the fans are going to

659
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: be great. It was absolutely jammed. It was tremendous But

660
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: the part of it that really overwhelmed me were conversations

661
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: individual with players from that team. You know, guys that

662
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 2: maybe I was a little bit hard with in twenty sixteens,

663
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 2: or guys maybe that I did not concede to all

664
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: the time, and that stood my ground. These guys came

665
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: up to me during this time and were absolutely blew

666
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: me away in a magnific away, and I conceded that

667
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 2: I was right and maybe they were wrong. And that

668
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 2: to me is like, that's the validation if you're looking for,

669
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: which I never do. But if you are, all that

670
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: tells you is like, just keep doing what you're doing,

671
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: which I'm more than likely I would. But when you

672
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: hear it from some really you know, good players too.

673
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 2: I'm not just talking about bench guys. I'm talking about

674
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: some guys. And so when your stuff is validated, and

675
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: happened with the race too. After I left the race,

676
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: I got that kind of feedback from the guys with

677
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: the race too. So I thought about this several years

678
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: ago in the phrase I just gave you. If I

679
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: tell you, excuse me, If I tell you the truth,

680
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: you might not like me for a little bit. But

681
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: if I lie to you, you're gonna hate me forever.

682
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: So I like, okay, what's the best coach? What's the

683
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: best major league coach? I feel again the word fearless

684
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: major league coach. The guy that's able to have tough conversations,

685
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: that is a great major league coach. He doesn't have

686
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: to have a PhD or whatever in hitting or pitching

687
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 2: or whatever. If he shows up every day, works hard,

688
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: and is an open communicator and speaks freely and openly

689
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 2: and honestly with my players, this guy's a good coach

690
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 2: because that's what you need. You don't need to dissemble,

691
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: don't take the truth and soften it up or make

692
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: it appealing to him whatever you're speaking with now, Honesty

693
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: without compassion could equal cruelty. But that has to happen

694
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 2: outside of the athletic world or professional sports. That happens

695
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 2: with the fifth grader. You know, if I'm talking to

696
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: my daughter or you know, somebody from outside. We're talking

697
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: professional baseball players. So honesty without compassion equals cruelty knowing

698
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: your audience. But when it comes to professional sports, if

699
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: you don't have it, grow some thick skin. There's got

700
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: to be a supplement for that. There's a supplement for

701
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: everything else. My best coaches were the duce that shot

702
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 2: me straight, no doubt, and I had some tough coaches

703
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 2: starting in June midget football, the high school football, to

704
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 2: college football to baseball. In the mind, I had some

705
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: most stubiing Bob Clear, dude, if you don't want to

706
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 2: hear it, don't ask the question, because it's coming unfiltered, man,

707
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 2: and it's coming right between your eyeballs. That's still the

708
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: best method of communication I'm talking about. On a professional level,

709
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 2: we do sugarcoat it too much. Best coaches are Brian Butterfield,

710
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: stud absolute stud you know, Mickey Hatcher, Buddy Black, Pepe

711
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: Ron Reddick might be the best ever. You asked Rags

712
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: a question, be prepared to have your hair parted if

713
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: he disagrees with you. And that's just the way it is.

714
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: Okay, let's turn our attention to the World Baseball Classic.

715
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: All of our World Baseball Classic coverage is brought to

716
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: you by our friends at Fox one, which is live

717
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: stream all your Fox favorites together in one place, including

718
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: all WBC games over the next few weeks, and after

719
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: that the best MLB action all season long. Well, the

720
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: US kicks off. It's WBC Friday against Brazil and Houston

721
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: and Joe. I've seen some players on this year's team

722
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 1: calling this group the quote best collection of US talent

723
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: ever assembled. Knowing Mike Trout as you do, how do

724
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: you how much does this burn Mike Trout, who is

725
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: the captain of the last WBC team, Knowing he's not a.

726
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 2: Part of this, Well, there's got to be a part

727
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: of him, absolutely that's got to be upset about it.

728
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: But there's also got to be a part of that, like,

729
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: come on, man, I need to stay healthy this season too.

730
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it's he's already done that. It's one of

731
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: those things you've already been there, done that. I know

732
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: they didn't win necessarily, but gosh, I mean, after all,

733
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: it's about playing the last game of the season and

734
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: winning it more than it's playing the last game of

735
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: the WBC in winning. And I'm sorry, but I listen.

736
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of a cool little gig that we

737
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 2: do right now. But I don't get overwhelmed by it

738
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: at all as a baseball purist. For me, it's about

739
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: shocking your team into position to get to the playoffs.

740
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: And like I said, played the last game of the

741
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: year and win it. That's really what we should be

742
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: focusing on. I'm always concerned about wrapping up too quickly.

743
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: I am. I always thought spring training should be a

744
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: slow dance and not not this you know, fast dance

745
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: or breakdance that it's become when the WBC pops up.

746
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: So I just think it's wise stream not to be.

747
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: Maybe make him an honorary captain happens show, but I

748
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: mean that that doesn't serve any really purpose. Just let

749
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: them play. Might you take care of yourself and get

750
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 2: ready for the season and get as many games under

751
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: your belt as you possibly can and help get the

752
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: Angels bright back on the right path. That to me

753
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: would be my main motivation, I believe. So that's how

754
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: I see it.

755
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: From the WBC through the World Series to the World Cup,

756
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: to NASCAR and IndyCar. With Fox one, you get it

757
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: all live. Start your seven day free trial today. Offers

758
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: are subject to change. Download Fox one today and stream

759
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: the World Baseball Classic live March six through fourteenth. Go

760
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: to foxwe dot com for complete terms and conditions. Fox

761
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: one streaming now Well, Joe, one of your many claims

762
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 1: to fame is that you're the only manager in Major

763
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: League history modern day to intentionally walk a batter with

764
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: the bases loaded twice to Josh Hamilton in two thousand

765
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: and eight and Corey Seeger in twenty twenty two. You

766
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: won both of those games with the Rays in eight

767
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: and Angels in twenty twenty two. How do you reflect

768
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: on those decisions?

769
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Josh Hamilton could not have been hotter, could

770
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: not have been hotter, and he would have tied the

771
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: score by pitching to him. And I definitely, absolutely believe

772
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: he would have tied the score. I mean intuition, experience, wisdom,

773
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, that came to bear

774
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 2: in that moment. I know Grant Balfour didn't like it

775
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: because Grant was actually a reverse slick guy. He was

776
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: really good against lefties. But I think Marlon Bird was

777
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: on deck and had Danny Wheeler and the bullpen, and

778
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: Danny had been really good against Righty just made the

779
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: move and obviously it worked, and so we put them

780
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: within a Grand Slam way of beating us. I believe

781
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: the actual walkom would have been so anyway, that falls

782
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: under the category of dodger Mania, where you do the

783
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 2: right thing and don't worry about answering a difficult question.

784
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: That's that's really where it comes from. And that was

785
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: my See, when you have a feel of freedom in

786
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: the dugout, if you feel freedom and support it by

787
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: your front office, you do things like that. And when

788
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: you don't feel supported, it's more difficult. Athough I would

789
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 2: have probably done it anyway, but it matters, man. That's

790
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: why it's so important for the in today's world, especially

791
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 2: the GM whoever's up top president, whatever that head guy is,

792
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 2: the manager has to feel that support. Now, however, having

793
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 2: said all that, managers today are rarely going to go rogue.

794
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: They're going to follow the script. And the script is

795
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 2: written before the game, trusts me. So anyway, that was

796
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 2: that The second one secret Now this is this goes

797
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 2: back to prep before the game. Our one line before

798
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: the game was not going to let Corey see or

799
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: beat us. Right, That was it. That was the proclamation.

800
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 2: And okay, so does that mean I back off because

801
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 2: the bases happened to be loaded to I back off?

802
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: Right there? Again, there was easily I could see in

803
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: four points right there. He was hot. Dude, When that

804
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: guy got hot, he's one of the best young left

805
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: ten hitters I've seen in a bit. Yeah, and so anyway,

806
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 2: we did that. Now we did work out necessarily, but

807
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: we only gave up three runs and not four runs.

808
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: And at any of IO I remember it correctly and

809
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 2: eventually came back and won it. And here's the other

810
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 2: part about it. When you do crazy stuff like that

811
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: and then you succeed, you know what that does in

812
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: the clubhouse. I mean, the guys absolutely go nuts in

813
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: a good way. So I'm not looking for attention. I'm

814
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: not looking for anything other than I'm relying on the

815
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 2: years that I spent in the game and my perception,

816
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: my feel in that moment, what's the right thing to do,

817
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 2: my intuition, what's the right thing to do right here?

818
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: And not run away from it because there's a tough

819
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: question answered.

820
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: Were you inspired by Buck Showalter intentionally walking Barry Bonds

821
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: with the bases loaded in nineteen ninety eight and do

822
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: you remember what then Diamondbacks picture Brian Anderson said after

823
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: that game, I do.

824
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 2: Not, but I love Ba. Ba took Ba with me

825
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: to the Rays and I think was was it an

826
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 2: out right? It? Was it a base at the writer

827
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 2: was in and out. I can't remember what happened.

828
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,959
Speaker 3: I can't remember either the next to the next hitter.

829
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 2: I wasn't inspired by that. My inspiration managerially, a lot

830
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: of it came from Gene Mouth quite frankly, and he's

831
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: another that's when I was with the Angels. Gene never

832
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: went to or won a World Series, but one of

833
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: the sharpest minds I've ever been around. Along with Whitey Herzog,

834
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: those two guys, to me were the epitome of a

835
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: major league baseball manager. I was so fortunate because Gene

836
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: used to give me a lot of latitude. You're talking

837
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: about empowerment over control. In spring trainings, Gene had me

838
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 2: run the bunt plays when I because he saw me

839
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 2: run him instructional League the year before. I like the

840
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 2: way I did it, so I got the sense Gritchie

841
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: Rodney Boonie and I think Burley at shows up. I'm

842
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 2: running but defense, you know. And I didn't think anything

843
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: of it. I was too naive.

844
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: Well, the Brian Anderson was the starting pitcher that day,

845
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: and after the game he said of Book show Alter,

846
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: that guy has got elephant Titus of the Nuts.

847
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 3: Still one of my favorite quotes of all time.

848
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: And Mark's gonna Mark's going to close the show with

849
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: another question.

850
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Mark, Well.

851
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 4: He's going to say a statement first. Uh. You mentioned

852
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 4: Grant Balfour. Uh still need a translation on what he

853
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 4: was cussing me out?

854
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 3: Uh?

855
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 4: I got him probably more than me.

856
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: You don't understand Australians.

857
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: Ask.

858
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 4: All I could make out was I think he called

859
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 4: me a washing machine or something, and Alfredo Griffin was serving,

860
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 4: as you know, trying to make sense of it as well.

861
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 4: Next day Bob Melvin strangely came up and apologized to me.

862
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 4: I know Grant was very very passionate, as are nearly

863
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 4: every Australian that I've played with.

864
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 2: So there's just an aside.

865
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 4: But what's a rule change that they could do right

866
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 4: now to make baseball more watchable, more strategic. You've talked

867
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 4: about Indian's limits, the three batter minimum, automated strike zones,

868
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 4: other things.

869
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts.

870
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 4: Is there one change in particular that you're passionate about

871
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 4: you think would help the game.

872
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: Yes, eliminate a lot of those strategical maneuvers, three better minimum,

873
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,439
Speaker 2: get rid of it, bigger bases, liminy, throw overs, get

874
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 2: rid of it. What's the other one. I don't like

875
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: three better minimum run around second base, get rid of it,

876
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 2: don't need them, so it would be addition through subtraction,

877
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: get the real game back. There was only one rule

878
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: change that was necessary and it's been proven out, and

879
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: that is the pitch clock and with that the evolution

880
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,479
Speaker 2: of the PitchCom where pitches are called more quickly because

881
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: of the little device. Those are the only two changes

882
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 2: that were absolutely necessary in baseball. The other stuff think

883
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: about it eliminates strategy, and so managerially speaking, it's kind

884
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: of been subtracted lesson with a managers to think about

885
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: during the course of a game. So that also is

886
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 2: part of the appeal to having a less experienced manager

887
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: in the dugout, because there's less for these guys to

888
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: have to keep track of during the course of a game.

889
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 2: So get rid of run around second get rid of

890
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,959
Speaker 2: three batter minimum, get rid of the big base. Number

891
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: of throwers the first base has nothing to do with anything.

892
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: It's never been about the length of the game. It's

893
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: always been about the pace of the game. So when

894
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: you start messing with strategy, then yeah, you are going

895
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: to mitigate minimize the abilities of a manager and a

896
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 2: dugout furthermore to me, Sorry, boys, I love the National

897
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: League game. I grew up in the America League game.

898
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 2: I'm telling you right now, it's more fascinating, it's more

899
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 2: intellectually stimulating. And I know, oh, double Switch would trust

900
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: me get into dugout, Get in a dugout when all

901
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 2: kinds of get a dug out in a playoff game,

902
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: when you're bringing a roll this Chapman against the Dodgers,

903
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 2: what in the seventh or eighth inning, and you move

904
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: the batting order eight spots in order to make sure

905
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: that he's going to be out there the next thing regardless,

906
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: And what happens. You get the bases loaded in two

907
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 2: outs and here comes Erawlees to the play and I

908
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: think it was like three two or whatever. It might

909
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: have been tied, and here comes Miguel Montero. MIGGI go

910
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: hit for him, knowing that if this doesn't work, I

911
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: don't know if my bullpen can hold up. Right now, boom,

912
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: two strike pitch from Blatton and Blattin was good against lefties.

913
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: Blant had that cutter that might have been the loudest

914
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: home run I ever heard at Wrigley Field. I'm just

915
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 2: talking about the actual contact and then of course the

916
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: explosion from the fans afterwards. There's so many more interesting

917
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: tidbits in that I'm tilling listen. This plug and play

918
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: kind of stuff is not fascinating to me. The part

919
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: of the allure of the game has been mitigated by

920
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: all this. And again, think about it. Like I said earlier,

921
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 2: analytics provides a safety neft for decision making, okay, because

922
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: we're always going to rely on the pregame math to

923
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 2: choreograph the game. One reason why the World series was

924
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: so interesting to a lot of people last year because

925
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: a lot of the analytics stuff went poom, it exploded

926
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: and guys, really the guys really had to manage both sides,

927
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 2: and it was really fascinating and interesting the watch. Finally,

928
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: it wasn't a analytical created world series. Analytically created world series,

929
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: so think about all that. The best changes you could

930
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: be would be additioned through subtraction. We didn't need all

931
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: those things in the first place. All we needed was

932
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 2: the clock. And furthermore, I'd like to see a regeneration

933
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: of the minor leagues. I'd like to see the game.

934
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 2: I'd like to see more time spent with the nurturing

935
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: of players by the time they get to the big

936
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: leagues that they know exactly what to do and handle situations,

937
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 2: handle adversity. Just because a guy hits a couple homers

938
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: in the minor leagues, as I mean, he's ready, I mean,

939
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: there's a complete game to be played out there that's

940
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: being absolutely abused and not concerned about. How about the

941
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: Milwaukee Brewers last year, ask Murph, murf is outstanding and

942
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 2: look with the Blue Jays actually played a better game

943
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 2: last year too. Murph right now, as a and I

944
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: stay in touch with him, he does it in a

945
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: way that I think any real baseball life, in a

946
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: real baseball fictionon auto could appreciate. That's how it's supposed

947
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: to look, the way the Brewers are doing right now.

948
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: All right, with that, we're gonna close today's show. Joe Madden,

949
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: former Halo's manager, always enjoy to catch up with you.

950
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time. Please like and subscribe, and that's

951
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us. We'll see you next time

952
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: on Halo Territory, part of the Foul Territory network.

953
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 3: M