1 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat and if 3 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: you're new here, then extra special welcome. I am a 4 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: therapist who started this podcast a couple of years ago 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: to just start some conversations out in the world. And 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: before we get into today's episode, quick reminder that this 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: is not therapy. This is just a therapist talking about 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: things that you also might talk about in therapy. Today, 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: I have one of my friends on the show. Her 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: name is Blair Falconello, and she has been on before. 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: We did an episode in the fall about family roles. 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: She's a marriage and family therapist. She is licensed in Tennessee. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: So if you love listening to her talk and you 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: want to work with her, I'm gonna put her email 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: in the show notes. You're going to hear Blair and 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: I talk about arguments and conflict and how to have 17 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: conflict that actually can benefit your relationship and bring you 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: guys closer and create a more intimate, loving relationships. So 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: I am going to just get right into it. Blair, 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,639 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here with me today. 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: I love talking to you in real life, so obviously, 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: I mean the podcast is real life, because that was 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: a real conversation. Anyway, you know what I'm saying. I'm 24 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: just going to get into it. So here's my conversation 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: with my friend Blair. All right, guys, I have my 26 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: friend Blair here. Say hi. Blair has been here before. 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: You might remember her from what was the episode we 28 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: did Family Roles Family Roles back in the Fall. And 29 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: she is a marriage and family therapist, which is a therapist, 30 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: but her training and her background is different than mine, 31 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: and therefore we specialize in different things. Blair loves to 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: work with couples. I do not work with the couples. 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: Why not. I don't love it so many things, there's 34 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: a lot every and is why I don't love it. 35 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: But we're just going to stop it. I don't love it, 36 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: so yeah, So I just, you know, work with individuals, 37 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: and then if we need to bring somebody in for 38 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: a session, we do. But I don't primarily work with 39 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: couples and Blair does. And so I wanted to bring 40 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: her back because I want to talk about conflict and 41 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: in arguments and fighting and relationships and how to fight fair. 42 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: And I sent my idea to Blair and she said okay, 43 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: and then let's talk about what I really said. What 44 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: do you really say? Hot take is that you said yeah, 45 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: I said she, So you said yes. I was like, 46 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: whoa hot take this? No, it didn't make me nervous. 47 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: But there's so much that goes into that, and I'm 48 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: just like, I have to get my thoughts together because 49 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: there's so much I would love to say about it. 50 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: There's so much to talk about. So we're just going 51 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: to get the ball rolling today and we're just gonna 52 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: start this conversation like we do most things on the podcast. 53 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: So since we're talking about fighting and relationships and arguments 54 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, we're going to start with what 55 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: conflict is. So, Blair, can you talk to us about 56 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: what conflict really is and how kind of we get 57 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: it jumbled up? Yes, So, conflict, I think when we 58 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: think about like society and just like what those like 59 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: stereotypical views are. You think about you opposing your partner, 60 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: vice versa. But the way that I think about conflict 61 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: is it is each person's way to protect the relationship. 62 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: You're bringing up these needs that haven't been met, or 63 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: things that you want to see change, or things that 64 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: you feel hurt about to try to get your relationship 65 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: in a better place. And the reason that it can 66 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: be so like you said, jumbled up and just kind 67 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: of get away from us and get crazy is because 68 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: we don't enter relationships as blank slates. We come into 69 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: a relationship with I don't want to say baggage because 70 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: I hate that word, but a past and stuff from 71 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: past relationships, you know, being in our families of origin 72 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: and how things were handled there and so um and 73 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: things that we've been heard about or hurt from. So 74 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: that's why conflicts can be kind of get away from 75 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: us and get bigger. But what you're saying is conflict 76 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: is a good thing because what conflict really is, it's 77 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: a way for us to maintain and protect the relationship. 78 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: But what happens is conflict feels like almost like dangerous 79 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: and scary, right, like attacking or so going head to 80 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: head toe to toe with your partner. Yeah, which I mean, 81 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: I've always said this and I will always believe this 82 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: that if your relationship doesn't have conflict, that's an issue 83 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: in itself because you learn and you gain more intimacy 84 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: through conflict. And that makes sense based off of what 85 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: you just said, Like we're bringing in all of our stuff, 86 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: and when conflict arises and if we really let ourselves 87 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: get down into it, it allows us to get to 88 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: know each other better and then learn to love and 89 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: care for each other better. Right, And the way that 90 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: I would reframe, you know, the conflict goal would be 91 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: not to have Well in some cases they're probably does 92 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: need to be less conflict, but I would say it's 93 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: not about not having conflict. It's more about having more 94 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: effective and productive conflict and healthy conflict. Okay, so we're 95 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: gonna learn how to have that do that. But first 96 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: you mentioned I mean the stories you bring from your past. 97 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: So let's start from the beginning. Let's talk about how 98 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: where we come from impacts our communication styles and our 99 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: conflict style. So we can start with family of origin 100 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: and kind of how that plays a role in you know, 101 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: your current relationship and your communication style and your attachment 102 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: that goes into conflict. Your family of origin, just to 103 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: give you a quick rundown, is the system of people, 104 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: the group of people that raised you when you were 105 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: a child up until adulthood. And you know, there's so 106 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: many different ways or versions of a family of origin. 107 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: Not one family looks the same. All the time, so 108 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: that can mean many different things. I would say whenever 109 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: you're thinking about your relationship. Now, one really good thing 110 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: to identify is how your family of origin handled conflict 111 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,559 Speaker 1: growing up. Were they too comfortable with conflict where people 112 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: always going, you know, toe to toe with each other. 113 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: Did they like to see things under the rug and 114 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: pretend like everything was okay? So therefore, as an adult 115 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: you might be really uncomfortable with conflict. I think that's 116 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: a really good place to start when figuring out what 117 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: your role in conflict present day is, because in your experience, 118 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: will you do the opposite or will you play out 119 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: what your family played out? I mean, it really could 120 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: be either or, Like if you grew up in a 121 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: family where there was abuse occurring, you might go in 122 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: the completely opposite direction from their conflict styles, or you 123 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: might and run and hide from any kind of conflict, 124 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: because essentially that the template that's being created for arguing 125 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: or whatever is if all you've seen is this conflict 126 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: being this really scary, abusive thing, then I don't want 127 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: any of it, and I'm not I'm going to sweep 128 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: everything under the rug because I'm afraid that anything will 129 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: tip somebody over. There and I'm trying to be safe. 130 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: That's about being safe. To be safe, I have to 131 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: avoid it absolutely. Or if you grew up in a 132 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: family where conflict was swept under the rug, you might 133 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: be that partner that lets things build and build and 134 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: build and build, and you're not even acknowledging them, just internally, 135 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you might explode at 136 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: some point, and then the issue that you explode on 137 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the actual issue. Yeah, it's 138 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: like your partner didn't put their shoes back in the closet, 139 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: they left it by the front door, and you can 140 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: just pop off because you have swept so many things 141 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: under the rug and haven't addressed anything. So yeah, there's 142 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: like several different ways that can come out. Because this 143 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: is very much in line with um attachment, and we've 144 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: talked about that a lot on the podcast a lot, 145 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: a lot, a lot, So if you really want to 146 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: know all of the attachment details, you can go to 147 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: the Attachment two point oh podcast or the very first 148 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: episode we ever did. But attachment and and your attachment 149 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: style comes from you learning how to get your needs 150 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: met as a kid from your environment that you're in. 151 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: So your conflict style is going to build out of that. 152 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: So let's talk about communication styles and let's see how 153 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll weave in an out attachment talk through that. 154 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: There's communication style. So can we talk about those? Yes, 155 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: and so the ones that I'm about to outline actually 156 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: come from like your family of origin. These are also 157 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: known as like survival stances or how we kind of 158 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: get by when there's conflict that arises in our family. 159 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: And so the ones that I want to talk about, 160 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: the first one is a play cater. So that's someone 161 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: who is a people pleaser. They typically want to decrease 162 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: the conflict and kind of like do whatever they have 163 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: to do to have everyone simmer down. Um, they're kind 164 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: of the yes man. There's the blamer, and that's pretty 165 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: self explanatory. You know, whenever they feel attacked, they just 166 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: kind of point the finger at the other person. There 167 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: is someone who is super reasonable, and that's a person 168 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: that um, if you're if you're in an argument with 169 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: someone who is super reasonable, they come off as almost 170 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: like a robot. They're very very overly logical and um, 171 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: kind of just like stone cold. But do they have opinions? Um? No, 172 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: I mean, and if they do, it's just very generic, Um, 173 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: nothing that's going to rock the boat. They're kind of 174 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: detached emotionally from from the conversation. And then there is someone, 175 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: uh that is irrelevant. So that's the role where they're 176 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: very distracting, kind of like that mascot role that we 177 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: talked about in the last podcast we did on family 178 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: of Origin, just very distracting from the actual issue at hand. 179 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: It's kind of a way to deflect. So as you're 180 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: saying these, what's coming to my head is the the 181 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: play cater and the blamer. Those probably lean more If 182 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about attachment styles, and if we 183 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: want to talk about insecure styles, those are probably gonna 184 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: lean more anxious, whereas the what was the other the reasonable, 185 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: super reasonable, and irrelevant, those are more avoidant, right, I 186 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: would think, so, yeah, I mean that's how it could 187 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: conceptualized that, Yeah, because one is about being overly, overly 188 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: involved in getting your needs met because you just are 189 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: so worried about them not getting met, and one is 190 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 1: about my knees aren't gonna get met. So I'm just 191 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: going to shut this off. I emotionally have shut down 192 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: because there's a lot. Even with a blamer, there's a lot, 193 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: a lot of emotion in that you feel attacked and 194 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: you point at the finger. And so even though it's 195 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: almost kind of opposite a play cater, there's still I mean, 196 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: the emotions are there, but I think where super reasonable 197 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: and irrelevant. The emotions are kind of like yeah. And 198 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: you know how something thinking about as as we're talking 199 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: about these is I'm like, oh, I don't want to 200 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: be that you. I don't want to be that I 201 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: don't want to be that one either. And that makes 202 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: me think about when we talk about indiagram and indiogram 203 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: types and the one that you identify with is the 204 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: most you usually are like I don't like that, and 205 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: it ends up being you. And so what I want 206 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: to say with those communication styles, it's not about and 207 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: the same with attachment, it's not about you liking that 208 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: and being a bad one or a good one, or 209 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: same with family roles. None of them are about like, 210 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: oh I want to be that one. I want to 211 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: encourage anybody who's listening, who's maybe some feelings of shame 212 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: might be bumping up against what you're hearing and what 213 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: you're connecting with that this isn't about like you being 214 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: good or bad and what role you're playing. It's I 215 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: need to identify my role so I can identify where 216 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: that role comes from, so then I can rewrite and 217 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: edit the narrative that I've been living out of, right, 218 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: And it's it's about being mindful and aware of your 219 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: history to help you be conscious of that and the present, 220 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: to notice that coming up, and to to try to, 221 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: like you know, stop that from happening the best way 222 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: that you can. So if I if I'm a blamer, 223 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: if and I noticed myself just like really being like you, 224 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: you do this, and you do that, and you do that, 225 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: and blah blah and all that and almost deflecting, and 226 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: if I know that, and I recognize myself saying that 227 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: and doing that, I can say, hey, this part of 228 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: me is coming out. I know that means that I'm 229 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: probably a little bit scared because I'm trying to protect 230 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: your everything. So let me calm down. Let me just 231 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: like take a couple of breaths, let's look at what's 232 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: actually going on. So then instead of blaming, I'm looking 233 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: for a solution rather than something to push this off, right, 234 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: And I can really hear my partner, I'm not constantly 235 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: trying to come up with the next thing to point 236 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: the finger at. So with attachment to So, the way 237 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: that attachment plays a role in conflict is that typically 238 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: someone who leans more anxious typically wants to pursue their partner. 239 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: They want to talk about it right then and there. 240 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: They want to hammer it out now, where someone who 241 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: leans more avoidant, they're gonna want to withdraw. And so 242 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: that can definitely come up when even just talking about 243 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: how to have conflict, it's like, how do you compromise 244 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: between someone who wants to talk about it now and 245 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: someone who wants to talk about it later. So that's 246 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: just another good thing to be aware of. Two and 247 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: there could be two people who are avoidant in a 248 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: relationship and two people who are anxious. But more times 249 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: than not, at least what I see is someone leans 250 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: more anxious than someone that's to avoidant people. I don't 251 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: know that they would end up in a relationship that would. 252 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: But what you're saying is, and if it's important to 253 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: recognize this is, and and I will never stop saying 254 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: this out loud, is that somebody who has an anxious 255 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: and insecure, anxious attachment and somebody has an insecure avoidant attachment. 256 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: One is not better than the other. They are literally 257 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: two sides of the same coin. Both of them are 258 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: trying to avoid being abandoned and rejected both of them. 259 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: They just do it in a different way. So I 260 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: know that's what that is. When I notice somebody pulling 261 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: away from from an argument or a discussion, that's their 262 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: way to protect the relationship too, because I don't want 263 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: to get in this, because when I get in this, 264 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: this is what happens when somebody's really over and over 265 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: asking can we talk about this? Can we talk about this? 266 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: Can we talk about this? I want to talk about 267 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: this now. I want to keep talking about this. I 268 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: want to are you okay? Are we okay? Are we good? 269 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: And you're like, oh my gosh. That's their way of 270 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: protecting it too, because they don't want to be abandoned. 271 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: It's all about knowing where your stuff land. So you 272 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: then can recognize this is what I'm trying to protect, Okay, 273 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: trying to protect how do I maintain and find a 274 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: place of safety and security and a foundation so then 275 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: we can have this conversation we need to have versus 276 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: the are you okay, Are we okay? And the I'm 277 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: going to go to my assurance and yeah, to go 278 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: avoid okay. So now that we have that kind of 279 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: nailed down, let's talk about like how do we actually 280 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: fight fair? What are the things you talk about? And 281 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: how do people effectively communicate in times of conflict, high 282 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: stress and even the things. So first I want to 283 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: talk about just reframing the way that we think about conflict, arguing, 284 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: fighting in a relationship. I think it really kind of 285 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: softens it when you think about conflict as it's me 286 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: and you, you and your partner versus the problem, not 287 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: me versus you. We are on the same team here 288 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: trying to battle this issue that's come up between us. 289 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: Which say that again, because I think that's so powerful. 290 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: It's me and you versus the problem. It's not me 291 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: versus you. And who is right and who is wrong? 292 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: There's really no way to quantify who is right and 293 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: who is wrong in an argument. We all play a role, 294 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: but it's easy. Some people might have a hard time 295 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: understanding that. Well, yeah, and there of course there's always gray, 296 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: like abuse that's just wrong and the abuser is wrong 297 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: in that situation. You know of course there's gray, But 298 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: most of the time it's not about right and wrong. 299 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: It's about me and you figuring out how to solve 300 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: this problem that has come up between us. Talk about 301 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: deeper rooted issues that I think is a hard pill 302 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: to swallow, probably from parts of our past that we 303 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: can't talk about on the podcast, like specifically, because it 304 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: can be so many things. But I think there's something 305 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: to be said of what's important about winning an argument 306 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: for you, what's important about being right? What's important about 307 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: them thinking you're right, because a healthy resolution might not 308 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: be your partner thinking that you're right. Yeah, I mean, 309 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of the times people get 310 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: caught up in well, my partner thinks I'm wrong for 311 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: feeling this way or I don't understand why he feels 312 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: the way that he does. That makes no sense. And 313 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: it's not about that feelings are not right and feelings 314 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: are not wrong. Feelings just are And it's all about 315 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: feeling heard in these arguments in these conflicts. Yeah, and 316 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: I think it brings up the idea of justified versus valid. Yes, 317 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: that's such a good point. So every emotion, you guys, 318 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: turn up the volume on whatever you're listening to every 319 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: single emotion. I don't care where it comes from or 320 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: what it is. Every emotion is valid because you're having it. 321 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: Like people don't make up feelings, You have them, you 322 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: don't ask for them, they come. So every single thing 323 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: you feel is valid because it's real, point blank. I 324 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: could say that over and over and over and over 325 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: and over again. So there's that everything's valid justified it's different. 326 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: Justified is totally different. But I don't think we're even 327 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: that it's that's even important. Whether or not an emotion 328 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: is justified is one thing. It's a whole another discussion, 329 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: and that's more about an individual's perceptions and ideas versus 330 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: a relational thing. Back to your point about right versus wrong, 331 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: someone who just needs to be right quote unquote. I 332 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: think some of that may come from feeling like their 333 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: feelings haven't been validated. So it's like they're getting that 334 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: compute again, justified versus valid. Maybe they feel as though 335 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: their feelings haven't been validated and that's why they have 336 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: this need to be right. But because we have different 337 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: stories and different experiences and different perceptions, and we see 338 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: the world through different lenses, everybody sees the world through 339 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: different lens. What's justified to me might not be justified 340 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: to you, so that we could we could argue and 341 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: go around and around and around if it was me 342 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: versus you forever, and I might not ever agree with 343 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: that being justified because of my story and my experiences. 344 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: So that's not where we're going with this. What I 345 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: do know is, no matter what you are, if you're 346 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: a human, every emotion and every feeling is valid. And 347 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: so that's where you start with these kinds of things 348 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: of Okay, I might not agree with you, but let 349 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: me understand first, let me validate you, and I want 350 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: you to know that what you're feeling isn't crazy. Let's 351 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: talk about it, and then how do we move My 352 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,239 Speaker 1: question for you is how do you move somebody through that? 353 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: So if it's not about me agreeing with you, then 354 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: what has it become about? I think, um, and I'm 355 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: simplifying it a lot here so that it's possible that 356 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm missing some things, But I think it's more about 357 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: feeling heard. I think that that is a lot that 358 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: comes up quite a bit, and couples therapy is I 359 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 1: just don't feel like I've been heard, which translates to 360 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: me into feeling validated by their partner because their partner 361 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: is just focusing on I don't understand why you feel 362 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: that way. That doesn't make sense to me, or what 363 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 1: about the way that I feel in this And as 364 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: a therapist, I like to remind people that on both ends, 365 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: you know, each partner, conflict is vulnerable for both people. 366 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: Whether you're the one bringing the issue up or you're 367 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: the one listening to the issue, it's a very vulnerable 368 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: place to be in on both ends, and I think 369 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: people lose sight of that sometimes. Well I think they 370 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: lose sight of it because then what ends up happening 371 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: is what we're fighting about isn't what we're fighting about. 372 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: So it's like it might not seem vulnerable to people 373 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: because we're fighting about the trash. We're fighting about your 374 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: shoes being left in the living room, and that's not 375 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: what that's not issue issue. Yeah, So I think too 376 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: that like anger and I'm gonna move along here to 377 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: like the communicating congrrently um, since you brought that up. 378 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 1: Anger is a very common emotion that comes up for 379 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: people and conflict. But I want to remind everyone that 380 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: anger does not exist in solidarity the way that I 381 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: think about me that you don't just feel you don't 382 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: just feel angry because we jump to anger because it 383 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: doesn't require us to be vulnerable, and it puts us 384 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: on the defense, and we feel like we can defend 385 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: ourselves with anger. But there's always, always, always a primary 386 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: emotion underlying that anger, And so you know, maybe you 387 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: need to take a breather before you have this conversation 388 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: or this argument with your partner to figure out, like, 389 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: what is really going on for me right now and 390 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: what does this mean to me? Okay, So to break 391 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: that down, let's say we're fighting about the trash. I'm 392 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: fighting because I've asked you to take the trash out 393 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: times and he never freaking takes the trash out. Meanwhile, 394 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: I love it by myself, so I take my own 395 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: trash out. So this isn't currently happening, but I imagine 396 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: that being very frustrating it now if I were to 397 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: one day, so I've asked for three weeks straight, can 398 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 1: you take the trash out? Never does I always end 399 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: up having to do it. So the fourth week, I 400 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: walk outside and the trash hands are still behind the 401 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: house whatever, and I just explode. Let's say I just 402 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: explode and I go off on my partner. I'm imagining 403 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: that when I go and I'm you know, yelling and 404 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: screaming and saying all the things, and I'm probably gonna 405 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: say something like, you never listen to me, You never listen. 406 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: Why can't you just do this one thing for me? Me? 407 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: How I process emotions that is anger, yes, but what 408 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: it also is is hurt and fear. Yeah, like you're 409 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: not supporting me. I'm really hurt because you're feels like 410 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: you're ignoring me. And I'm really scared because it feels 411 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: like you don't care about me. Yeah, you're not meeting 412 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: my needs that I'm communicating to you. And so that 413 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: I like breaking down the anger as a secondary emotion. 414 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: While while anger is very important and it lets us 415 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: know what we care about. We care about somebody hearing us, 416 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: we care about somebody meeting our needs, but we also 417 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: need to recognize that I'm not so angry. I'm terrified 418 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: that you don't care about me. And I have a 419 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,239 Speaker 1: good example too, and some people may relate to this. 420 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: So my fiance and I got a dog during COVID. 421 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: Granted we had planned to get him before COVID happened, 422 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: but it so happened that we picked him up from 423 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: the breeder during COVID and we've kind of been doing 424 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: some training with him. He we love him dearly, but 425 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: he is a wild animal um and so we were 426 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: his name is theo UM. We were talking about taking 427 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: him with us to visit my parents that live in 428 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: southern Louisiana and Craig had said something. My fiance, Craig 429 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: had said something about, you know, gosh, his behavior is 430 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: just so bad and I feel like that comes back 431 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: on me. And I said, what do you mean that 432 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: comes back on you? And he said, well, I feel 433 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: like when it comes to the behavior stuff with him, 434 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: like I'm really kind of the main person that does 435 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: that stuff. And immediately I go to this place of 436 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: just I felt angry in the moment, but what I 437 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: really felt was guilt and fear that well, you know, 438 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: my response was a well, I do this for him, 439 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: and I do this for him, and I do this 440 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: for him. I was so upset because what I heard 441 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: was You're not in this with me the way that 442 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: I need you to be. And if had I like 443 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: sat down and taken a breather and really really like 444 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: realized that that's what was coming up for me. It 445 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: would have been a more productive conversation. But he also 446 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: didn't say that right, But I could have at least 447 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: said what I heard was that you don't think that 448 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm like a you know, a supportive partner when it 449 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: comes like raising our dog. And you could have said 450 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: yes or no. But instead I go to, well, but 451 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: I do this with him, and how could you say that? 452 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: And I do that with him? And it comes back 453 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: to my stuff that was coming up. Then he never 454 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, he never said but it just came up 455 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: for me, And it would have been healthy to point 456 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: that out had I taken a beat and identified that 457 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: where my stuff might come from. I made up the 458 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: trash example, obviously, but my stuff might come from my 459 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: old negative core beliefs around I'm not worthy of the work, 460 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm not worthy of the attention, and all of that. 461 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: Your stuff is hitting on your old negative core beliefs 462 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: that like, yeah, we can work on them. Listen to me, 463 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: Yeah we can work on them. And they are not 464 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: going to be the shining light that our eyes see 465 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: the world through. But there's still somewhere there in our 466 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: bodies and in our brain, so they can be triggered, 467 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: and it's important to notice that and know that so 468 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: when it does come up, I can have a productive 469 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: conversation with my partner and say like, hey, this is 470 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: where my mind went. I need to check this out 471 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: because this is what I heard you say and I 472 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: know you didn't use those words, And it's okay to 473 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: bring that stuff up as long as you are open 474 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: to them saying no, like that's not what I meant. 475 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: If you're you have to also be open to the 476 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: feedback that you're going to receive and not just choose 477 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: to say, well, that's not true. You're lying to me. Yeah, well, 478 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: and open to hearing the reality of it, but with 479 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: a firm foundation. So a firm foundation of I'm going 480 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: to be in this relationship, I'm not leaving you, and 481 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: in healthy relationships, you're not going to add love and 482 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: think everything your partner does is right and and good. 483 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: You're going to have complaints, but here's what they about 484 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: a complaint. If you have a complaint, there can be 485 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: something done about that, versus is it contempt. It's just like, yes, 486 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: I have that on here too. Should we talk about 487 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: those things we can for sure, because contempt is just 488 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: like there's no hope essentially. But if I come to 489 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: you with a complaint, we need to work on our 490 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: whole culture's view of complaints. Complaints give us the opportunity 491 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: to fix something that is wrong, to have a discussion 492 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: about it. Yes, do something about it. Should we go 493 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: into that. You have to talk about the Yeah, So 494 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: let's see. So Gottman he is like the leading like 495 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: person in the field for couples therapy. So if you 496 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: guys go to the Gottman Institute website, they have a 497 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: lot of information on um just couples in general and relationships. 498 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: And so he said that he did a lot of 499 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: research on like relationship outcomes and things like that. There 500 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: is a five to one ratio that is a predictor 501 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: of a successful marriage or not. I think this is 502 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: important to say that he was able to predict I 503 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: think it was with accurate high eighties or low nineties, 504 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, within one session, I remember, I 505 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: don't know what, Okay, So he caught up on the 506 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: very So he was able to within like with accuracy rate, 507 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: predict whether a couple would stay together based on the 508 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: stuff that we're about to talk about. Yes, So he 509 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: says that couples who had a five to one ratio 510 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: of positive to negative talk, meaning five positive comments to 511 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: their partner versus one for everyone negative comment to their 512 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: partners was predictive of a successful marriage. But he also 513 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: has these things called the four horsemen. So they're like 514 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: four styles of communication that come up in conflict with 515 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: your partner. And I will tell you the one that 516 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: is like the biggest predictor of um a couple who 517 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: may not work out. So the first one is criticism, 518 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: and that is people people who's talking definitives like you 519 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: always do this or you never do this. That automatically 520 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: puts your partner on the defense. When you talking definitives 521 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: like that, there's defensiveness, and that one's more obvious. So 522 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: then after defensiveness, there is contempt. And so contempt is 523 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: the horseman that Gottman says is the biggest indicator of 524 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: divorce in a marriage. It is a big no no. 525 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: And so what contempt is is it's basically a comment 526 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: that you make to minimize, belittle, or shame your partner, 527 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: and it puts you on a pedestal above them. You 528 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: kind of see yourself as superior. So I'll give you 529 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: an example. It says like, look, I learned how to 530 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: tell time when I was five years old. When are 531 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: you ever going to learn? So the next one is 532 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: um on here, this is a good one too. We 533 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: haven't had sex and months. What are you too busy 534 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: flirting with that guy at work? Why don't you just 535 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: marry him instead? It's a way to kind of shame 536 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: your partner, belittle them, minimize them, and so no, wonder 537 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: it's the biggest Like, you know, if somebody said that 538 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: to me, then I would feel like I needed to 539 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: become defensive to defend myself. But that person might not 540 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: be doing anything to deserve that or to defend right, 541 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: it's the other It sounds like the other person's insecurity 542 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: coming out. But if I could just be honest about, Hey, 543 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: I'm feeling insecure about the fact that we haven't had sex. 544 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: Can we talk about that, like, what's going on? Is 545 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: there something going on outside of our relationship? There's totally 546 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: another way to bring that stuff up, but it's not 547 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: in a way to shame your partner. Well, in that 548 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: way is less vulnerable, right, it's not. I'm feeling scared 549 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: because we haven't had sex in months, it's what are 550 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: you doing? Um? And then the last one is stonewalling. 551 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: So that's kind of when you just cut your partner 552 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: out you don't talk to them for however many days. 553 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: That's also very damaging. But the one out of all four, 554 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: definitely contempt is one to look out for, so things 555 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: not to do and to recognize and talk about when 556 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: you notice yourself doing them or notice them coming up. Now, 557 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: let's talk about having these conversations. So, something that I 558 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: really believe is helpful in conflict and in conversations with 559 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: not just romantic partners but just anybody is when we're 560 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: having conflict and we're coming together to have a conversation 561 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: that could end up being heated, that does have of 562 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: emotion around it to come from a place of I 563 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: want to better understand you, and for that other person 564 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: to have the desire to I want to better understand you. 565 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: So rather than coming to one solid conclusion like we've 566 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: been talking about, of one right or wrong, the conversation 567 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: should be centered around understanding the other person's experience better. 568 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: So something that I encourage a lot of clients to 569 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: do is when they sit down and have these conversations 570 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: and say, hey, I'm struggling with this because I know 571 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: I'm not you and I don't have the stories and 572 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: in my head that you have. So rather than me 573 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: trying to defend myself and tell you why I'm right, 574 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: I want you to tell me what it's like to 575 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: be you right now. I want you to help me 576 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: understand what's happening within you. So there, I'm asking you 577 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: to give me that information versus I'm talking about my experience, 578 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: and then you're not even listening to me. You're thinking 579 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: about when is it going to be your turn to 580 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: talk about your experience. Neither of us are listening to 581 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: each other. It's a great place to start, absolutely, yeah, 582 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: like really being present in the moment. And I'll say 583 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: I'll add to that too, and it's you know, one 584 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: really helpful, just like pretty cut and dry tip is 585 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: to validate what your partner has said before you bring 586 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: up a new point. When you're just going back and forth, 587 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: never really resolving what's being said, and just going on 588 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: to the next thing or the next hurtful thing to say, 589 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: there's nothing that gets solved, and then you're all of 590 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like this small thing that happened that 591 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about not taking the trash out. We haven't 592 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: talked in a week because of all of the stuff 593 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: that was spewed out and nothing got resolved. I think 594 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: it's really good to make sure you acknowledge what your 595 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: partner has said before you bring up a new point 596 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: or respond to it. And you know, I get the 597 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: vibe that you're not as big as a fan of 598 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: this that I am, which is okay. I don't know, 599 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: like this opening Pandora's Box. I'm a big fan of 600 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: UM something called intentional dialogue, which is centered around eye 601 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: statements statements, but I think people think it's going to 602 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: solve the whole issue and it can help, but it's 603 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: definitely not. Well, here's where I take an eye statement. 604 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: So when we're talking or when you want to bring 605 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: something up, it's hey, when blank happened, I felt angry, scared, hurt, sad, lonely. 606 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: Whatever the story I made up or what it brought 607 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: up for me was blank. And what I need from 608 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: you is blank. I love that because it allows you 609 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: to be very very specific about what it was. It's 610 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: not like when you exist It's like, when this thing happened, 611 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: I felt this, and it triggered this in me. Either 612 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: brought up stuff from my past or I made a judgment. 613 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: I assumed something. If I assume something, I can say 614 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: is what is that true? Is that accurate? And let's 615 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: talk about that. But then the last part is this 616 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: is what I need from you, like, this is what 617 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: I would like from you. And then the partner gets 618 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: to say back what they heard. So I say that 619 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: to you, Blair, I'm on you. And then you'll say 620 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: is that it? And I'll say, yet, like asked to clarify, 621 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: and and then and they'll and they'll say, what I 622 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: heard is when I did this, you felt this. The 623 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: story that it brought up was this, and you would 624 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: like this. And if you get it right, they'll say, 625 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: after was that correct? If you get it right, I'll say, yeah, 626 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: that was it. If you get it wrong, then I'll 627 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: say no, let me try again, because what happened. And 628 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: it's a very interesting experiment to play with your partner 629 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: really anybody, but because it will show you how much 630 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: in your head are you doing the mind reading thing 631 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: or how much in your head are you defensive? Because 632 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: let's make an example. Let's say, Blair, when you showed 633 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: up to my house for this recording late at instead 634 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: of three thirty, I felt really angry and hurt. The 635 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: judgment I made is that you didn't care about my 636 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: time and what I was doing after this, and what 637 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: it brought up for me is being ignored by people 638 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: when I was younger, or being picked up on time 639 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: from soccer practice when I was a kid. You know, 640 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: it could be any of those things. What I ask 641 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: is that next time we schedule something, if you're not 642 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: able to make it on time, you just let me 643 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: know beforehand. Now, Blair, tell me what you heard. The 644 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: unhealthy type one in me would say, So, what I 645 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: hear is that when I'm not on time, you hold 646 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: that against me, and I just like, can't do anything 647 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: right with you? And then you say it is that right? 648 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: Is that correct? No? Let me try it again, And 649 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: then I would repeat myself, and I would keep repeating 650 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: myself until Blair verbatim says what I say. So, what 651 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: I heard is that you felt disrespected when I wasn't 652 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: on time. Today you do the whole thing. You say. 653 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: What I heard is that when I showed up at 654 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: three you felt angry and hurt, you repeat the whole thing. 655 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: And what that does is it forces somebody to be 656 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: so present that they have to listen to every single 657 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: word you say, and then they have to say it. 658 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: It feels different when you say it, and then when 659 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: you finally get it right, is that correct? Yes, that's correct? 660 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: Is there more? No? That's it okay, And then they 661 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: get to have a turn, and so then we both 662 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: are hearing each other. And then at the end it's like, 663 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: what I'm asking for? Is this? What I'm asking for? 664 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: Is this? If we can both give that to each other, 665 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: then amazing. But you have to hear each other before 666 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: you can really get your needs met. And again it's 667 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: another template where it doesn't give you room to agree 668 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: or disagree. You're just validating and listening, which is like 669 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: the best thing that you can do for the person 670 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: you're having a relationship with. However, in an argument, well 671 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: here's the thing. The reality is everybody listening is I'm 672 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: late to a lot of things. Yeah, Blair, actually right now, 673 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, but what the hell Like you're the one 674 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: who was like come later, I'm not actionism and not 675 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: loving this right now? The two things that Blair buffers 676 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: and thirty minutes to everything that I said. Literally, every 677 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: time she's like I'm late, I'm like, I We've gone 678 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: over this. I add thirty minutes. So what every time 679 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: you specify? But so, the thing is, the reality is 680 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: Blair might not ever agree with the fact that it's 681 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: important to show up on time. She might not think 682 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: that that means that you care about somebody or not 683 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: right because of her story and her experiences. However, she 684 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: cares about me and she wants to be in a 685 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: healthy relationship with me. Therefore, hey, can you can you 686 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: work on being on time? She's gonna She's most likely 687 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: going to say, you know what, I'm not gonna be 688 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: perfect with it, but yes, now that I know how 689 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: important that is to you, I will work on that. 690 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: And if I'm going to be late next time, I 691 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: will let you know. I'm not going to promise that 692 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: I'll never be late, but if I'm going to be late, 693 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: I can definitely tell you. That's the point. It's not 694 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: to force Blair to now be a perfectionist and be 695 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 1: like me and think all of my things. It's hey, 696 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: do you have enough care for me that you will 697 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: make an effort to do this thing right. And I 698 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,399 Speaker 1: want to add to that too, really quick. It goes 699 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: back to something that I'll add is not villain rising 700 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: your friend or your partner or whoever it is that 701 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: you're having an issue with. Typically, again, the world is gray. 702 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: There's no black and white here. Typically the other person 703 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,479 Speaker 1: is not trying to hurt you with whatever action they've done, 704 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: and the person bringing the issue up is not trying 705 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: to hurt you by bringing it up. Their intention is 706 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: not to hurt you. So I think like just also 707 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: kind of getting yourself in that mindset helps a little 708 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: bit before going into it. It's going back to what 709 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: is conflict a way to protect a relationship, right. They're 710 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: not assuming that you did that to you know, screw 711 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: them whatever. Don't assume that of someone else. And you know, 712 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: hopefully the other person they're receiving end doesn't think that 713 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: you're just saying these things to hurt them either. It's 714 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: meant to be productive and to solve an issue. And 715 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: the thing is if it's not, then that's probably not 716 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: your person and there's a bigger issue there if they 717 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: are trying to hurt you. If there is a lot 718 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: of contempt. If this isn't about protecting the relationship and 719 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: it's about hurting you, then like, okay, let's talk about 720 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: maybe we need to get out of this relationship. But 721 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: in general, when we're talking about healthy relationships, the conflict 722 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: is never going to be about making the other person 723 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: feel bad because they just want to make you feel bad, right, 724 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: might come off that way, right, yes, of course, I mean, 725 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: especially with like all the stuff that comes up that 726 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: bubbles out. Something that um, I really appreciate about my 727 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: own fiance is he's made a habit of whenever we 728 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: do have any sort of conflict, um And granted we 729 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: have our issues, like we all do, we all have them. 730 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: But something I do appreciate about him is when we've 731 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: had an issue, at the end of the conversation, he 732 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: will always say, so, what do you need from me? 733 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: And I really appreciate that because sometimes we can get 734 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: so bogged down and all of the ship that's coming 735 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: up during an argument that we forget like, well, if 736 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: we want to make this better, we need to be 737 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: talking about what the other person needs to move forward. 738 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: And so I like that. That's something that I really 739 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: appreciate that he does when we argue about things. Is 740 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: asking that question, and you know what, what you need 741 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: might not always be something that he really is like 742 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: dying to give you right, and he loves you right 743 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: and he wants the relationship to work, so he's will 744 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: lean to do that right. And so I think it's 745 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: good to get in the habit of either ask for 746 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: what you need or if you're on the receiving end, 747 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: and it can it's either one or both, ask your 748 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: partner what they need. Something we didn't talk about that 749 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: I think is important to bring back up before we 750 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: end this conversation is what do we do if somebody 751 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: wants to talk immediately? Somebody doesn't want to talk about 752 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: at all? Because we talked about that the avoidance and 753 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: the anxious attachment styles and how they handle this differently. 754 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: What do you do if somebody's like, talk to me now, 755 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: and somebody's like, I don't want to talk to you. Yeah, 756 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: and that And I brought that up because it is 757 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: something it's a it's an issue that comes up in 758 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: couples therapy all the time, UM with many different couples 759 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: I've worked with. You know, I want to talk about 760 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: it right then they want to wait until later. What's 761 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: the compromise there. I mean, it's like you're on one 762 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: end or the other. So what I say is give 763 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: your partner the space if they're the ones that if 764 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: they're the one that doesn't want to talk about it right, 765 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: then give them the space. However, the compromises, they need 766 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: to also set up a time with you in the 767 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,439 Speaker 1: near future to talk about it. Again, what I hear 768 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,800 Speaker 1: is give them space, but that because you're giving them space, 769 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: they're also going to give you something that feels safe. 770 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: Is like, Okay, I'm going to give you time, but 771 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: can you tell me a time. Okay, tomorrow at five 772 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: or in fifteen minutes or tonight at seven thirty when 773 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: I get off work. So they're telling you. So then 774 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: you don't have to sit there and just stew on 775 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: that and be afraid of like this is never gonna 776 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: get And when you're in the and when you lean 777 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: more anxious and you're in that space of like just 778 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: panicking and there's no resolve, it makes it really scary. Yeah, 779 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: and you're coming up with all these extra things, and 780 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: so to have something to hold onto and that your 781 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: partner needs to follow up with that, I mean it 782 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: also goes along with being trusting that they're going to 783 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: do what they say they're gonna do. That definitely helps. No, 784 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: I think that is beautiful and I'm glad that we 785 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,720 Speaker 1: said that. The other thing that's making me think about 786 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: is it's kind of a similar situation is when somebody 787 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: wants their partner to go to therapy with them. That 788 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,240 Speaker 1: happens all love the time, or go to therapy in general. 789 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: So what do you say, since you work with couples, 790 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: what do you say to your clients who are like, 791 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: I really want my partner to come and that that 792 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: does happen um quite a bit, that maybe their partner 793 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: is not in a place where they're ready to do 794 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: a couples therapy yet, or they're getting their own individual 795 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: therapy and they kind of want to focus on that 796 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: and that's fine. So what I typically do is, you know, 797 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: I make sure to tell them I can't work with 798 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: a couple, like I can't work with someone who's not 799 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: in the room with us. But what I can do 800 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: is work with you on your role in that conflict. 801 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: You know, kind of keep your side of the street 802 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: healthy and clean, and you know, talk about how you 803 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: can communicate in a healthy way, in a way that 804 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,320 Speaker 1: fits your needs with your partner, or we're processing issues 805 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: that have come up in the past. I talk about 806 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: that a lot with my own therapist, like any you know, 807 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,280 Speaker 1: anything with me Craig has been relevant to my life recently, 808 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: and I talk about my role and kind of making 809 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: sure that I'm doing things in the healthy way. Um, 810 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: we talk about that and maybe at some point, whenever 811 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: you're making the changes you need to make, maybe your 812 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: partner will jump on board, so it's not hopeless if 813 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: they're just not willing in the moment to do that 814 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: yet with you, but you can still go and get 815 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 1: yourself some support on your stuff. I will say too, though, 816 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,240 Speaker 1: because I mean, I deal with that all the time, 817 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 1: and I think that where I stand with it is 818 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: you can't force anybody to go to therapy. Now. You can't. 819 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,919 Speaker 1: If somebody goes to therapy because you're forcing them, they're 820 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: not probably going to do work anyway. So there's that. 821 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: And I really believe that we need to look at 822 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: our partners and what they're willing to do and what 823 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: willing not to do and ask ourselves, can we accept this? 824 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: Can we accept this version of health in them? Because 825 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: they may never decide to go to therapy. So I 826 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: can't enter a relationship saying, well, I think in five 827 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: years eventually they'll they'll want to do X y Z. 828 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: So is it enough for me to work on my stuff? 829 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: And then how do I create boundaries around wishing and 830 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: hoping that they change? Because if you're always going to 831 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: be wishing and hoping that they change, you're never going 832 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 1: to be able to actually accept and value what they 833 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: are in that moment and who they are in that moment. 834 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 1: I say that knowing that that's really hard. It's really hard. 835 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: It's not as black and white as I just made 836 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: it sound like. It is really tough, and there's a 837 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: lot of feelings involved in just that idea. But I 838 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: think one of the most powerful things I've ever heard 839 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,359 Speaker 1: in therapy, and one of the most powerful things I've 840 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,720 Speaker 1: ever said to clients is when relationally we're talking about things, 841 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: can you accept them how they are right now? Because 842 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: if they change, that's great, that will be amazing. They 843 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 1: might not, So this was great. Thank you for being here, 844 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: Blair totally. Do you guys have any questions about this 845 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: episode specifically or specifically for Blair? You can send them 846 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,959 Speaker 1: to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. I'll 847 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: put Blair's email address in the show notes. So if 848 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: you guys want to get to know her and work 849 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: with her, you can if you live in Tennessee where 850 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: she is licensed. And I hope you guys have you 851 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: know the day you need to have, whether it's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 852 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: or whatever day it is, and I will talk to 853 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,399 Speaker 1: you guys on Wednesday. Thanks Blair, Thank you,