Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central, Please welcome Alec carricat Tanis
Speaker 1: Why thank you for having Thank you so much, Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show. You you have a really interesting story, Alec,
Speaker 1: because you know, you worked as a public defender. You've
Speaker 1: worked in the justice system for a long time. You're
Speaker 1: part of many organizations that fight for people who are
Speaker 1: incarcerated unjustly or in a way where they can never
Speaker 1: find their way out of the system, which is unjust
Speaker 1: in a in a different way. Um, but a lot
Speaker 1: of your notoriety has come from your Twitter threads and
Speaker 1: how you break down the world, the way we see
Speaker 1: policing in the country, and the way even liberal organizations,
Speaker 1: funny enough, are part of the problem. So let's let's
Speaker 1: start with that part. You know what made you decide
Speaker 1: to not be looking at Fox News, not be looking
Speaker 1: at you know, right wing outlets, but rather say no,
Speaker 1: New York Times, l A Times, Washington Post, you need
Speaker 1: to change the way you talk about policing in America.
Speaker 1: I began this work because I care so deeply about
Speaker 1: safe everyone's safety. You care about violence in our communities,
Speaker 1: and as I was going around the country fighting these injustices,
Speaker 1: the cash bail system, police abuse. All over the country.
Speaker 1: We're running into obstacles, and one of the main obstacles
Speaker 1: was this status quo approach that many progressive people have.
Speaker 1: And it's not their fault, really, right. We're bombarded constantly
Speaker 1: in the media with what we call capaganda, and capaganda
Speaker 1: has really I think three main functions. The first function
Speaker 1: of capaganda is to narrow our conception of what safety means.
Speaker 1: We're constantly being told that there's quality threats around us.
Speaker 1: But the threats that the media and police and certain
Speaker 1: large corporations want us to be focused on are not
Speaker 1: the things that actually most determine our safety. So, for example,
Speaker 1: you've seen all over the country um uh taught conversations
Speaker 1: about retail theft or a wave of crime, right, But
Speaker 1: you don't hear is about the epidemic of wage theft.
Speaker 1: Wage theft costs fifty billion dollars every single year. Wage
Speaker 1: theft alone is about five times the value of all robbery, burglary, larson,
Speaker 1: the shoplifting combined. And why are we not hearing about it?
Speaker 1: And I think it's because you have this law enforcement system.
Speaker 1: I use that system and quotes because police want us
Speaker 1: to call them law enforcement, but in reality the only
Speaker 1: enforced some laws against some people some of the time.
Speaker 1: So so let's let's let's talk about that that. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a disconnected feels like sometimes in the conversations we
Speaker 1: have in America, because on the one hand, many people
Speaker 1: will agree that law enforcement needs overwatch. You know, many
Speaker 1: people will agree that law enforcement um that isn't in
Speaker 1: some way regulated by by an outside body, will run rampants.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there are many communities who
Speaker 1: will still say yes, but we we still need some
Speaker 1: form of law enforcement, We need some form of justice,
Speaker 1: we need some form of protection. And this is something
Speaker 1: that almost goes beyond law enforcement as we know it
Speaker 1: in the world today. So so what is an argument
Speaker 1: for a better world that that doesn't subscribe to the
Speaker 1: notions of how people think law enforcement these exists. Now,
Speaker 1: let's just start with some of the very basic facts
Speaker 1: that we know. If we care about safety, we care
Speaker 1: about harm. The number one thing we need to do
Speaker 1: is address the actual root causes of violence and harm
Speaker 1: in our society. The actual root causes of harm in
Speaker 1: our society are not the fact that we're not policed enough. Right,
Speaker 1: we have the most police of any society, with most prisons, prosecutions, courts, judges, probation, parole,
Speaker 1: if probation parole, prosecutors, judges, and courts. If money spent
Speaker 1: on that made us safe, we would have the safest
Speaker 1: society in the history of the world. We don't. What
Speaker 1: actually matters, What actually matters for our safety is investing
Speaker 1: in things like reducing poverty, like safe permanent supportive houses,
Speaker 1: like healthcare, public health. I completely, I completely agree with
Speaker 1: you on that. You know, I'm a firm believer in that.
Speaker 1: I think it's the you know, the cause versus the symptom.
Speaker 1: There is a confusing element that that I think often
Speaker 1: gets overlooked, and it's the transition. You know. I see
Speaker 1: it when people talk about electric cause, I see it
Speaker 1: when people talk about policing, and and it's the unfortunate
Speaker 1: truth that there is always going to be a transition
Speaker 1: from one system to another. Unless there is a revolution
Speaker 1: that happens overnight, there needs to be a transition. What
Speaker 1: do you propose for the transition in between? Because we
Speaker 1: do have police now, there are unions that are very
Speaker 1: powerful that even the police say, hey, we we can't
Speaker 1: say anything. The union is controlling how this is doled out.
Speaker 1: So what do you do for the interim? Because I
Speaker 1: think we can you and I will agree on all
Speaker 1: of that. You know, those are long term solutions, but
Speaker 1: in the in the in the short term, what do
Speaker 1: you think we can do to keep people safe and
Speaker 1: also find a way to move the system over. The
Speaker 1: good thing is that we know exactly what works, and
Speaker 1: we have a lot of evidence. So anyone who tells
Speaker 1: you that the solution, even in the shorter media in term,
Speaker 1: is more funding for police, that's like climate science denial.
Speaker 1: There's overwhelming research that the programs that already exist UM
Speaker 1: permanent supportive housing, safe consumption sites, violence interruption, restorative justice,
Speaker 1: UM investing in safe places for communities to gather, are
Speaker 1: at school, music theater programs, early child education. All of
Speaker 1: these things work, and they work quickly. The problem is
Speaker 1: we don't have the political powers. Often what happens is
Speaker 1: we identify, like in our work, these enormous injustices, like
Speaker 1: there are five hundred thousand human beings in cages right
Speaker 1: now in this country because they can't afford to pay
Speaker 1: cash to get out right, we identify that injustice, and
Speaker 1: what happens a lot of prominent establishment liberals. They propose
Speaker 1: a reform, but the reforms that are being proposed are
Speaker 1: backed by those same interests that created the current problem.
Speaker 1: And so we're constantly being hit with short and medium
Speaker 1: term solutions that are reforms that actually exacerbate the problem.
Speaker 1: Let me give you an example. Take the bail system.
Speaker 1: If you care about the presumption of innocence, about people
Speaker 1: being taken away from their children because they can't make
Speaker 1: a monetary payment, like millions of children somebody from their
Speaker 1: parents every single year. Um, you want to fix this problem,
Speaker 1: So enter the establishment democrats. What do they do? In
Speaker 1: most of these cities, They're trying to replace the cash
Speaker 1: bail system with privatized for profit electronic monitoring electronic incarceration.
Speaker 1: This is in norm to say profit. There are billions
Speaker 1: of dollars to be made with private corporations who want
Speaker 1: to convert our system of mass incarceration to a system
Speaker 1: of mass electronic attention. I as I say, I've I've
Speaker 1: always admired the fact that you you almost have a
Speaker 1: start at home approach. You know you're onn't spending your
Speaker 1: time fighting with conservatives or Republicans who believe in that system.
Speaker 1: You're challenging liberals, you're challenging progressive you're challenging democrats who
Speaker 1: claimed this to actually follow through on it. So my
Speaker 1: question to you would then be for for for the
Speaker 1: media specifically, who you have a you know, a targeted
Speaker 1: focus on, you know, for the newspapers, for the publications,
Speaker 1: what do you think is a change that they could
Speaker 1: make overnight, because that's completely in house. What is something
Speaker 1: they could do right now that could present a care
Speaker 1: of vision of where America should be? I think there
Speaker 1: are a few things. Number One, as they write my
Speaker 1: newsletter recently, cover the things that are most threatening to
Speaker 1: our health and safety. Cover the hundred thousands, Cover the
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand violations to the Clean Water Act every
Speaker 1: year that are killed ling children, that are killing families.
Speaker 1: Did you know that there are one hundred thousand deaths
Speaker 1: in the US alone and ten million across the globe
Speaker 1: because of air pollution. That is five times a number
Speaker 1: of homicides in the U. S alone. Did you know
Speaker 1: how many people tens of thousands die from eviction and
Speaker 1: and predatory lending practices that put people into poverty. Um
Speaker 1: these are solvable problems. We know how to solve them.
Speaker 1: But the people in this country don't treat them urgently.
Speaker 1: And the reason is because the volume of news stories
Speaker 1: they share volume every single day. It's about shop lift
Speaker 1: things about this isolated crime. It's about that isolated crime,
Speaker 1: and we're not talking about the threats to our existence
Speaker 1: like the rise of fascism or, for example, UM, the
Speaker 1: growing right wing threat in this country to reproductive health.
Speaker 1: Did you did you realize that, um? When you know
Speaker 1: I've been looking and studying very carefully how the media
Speaker 1: is covering Joe Biden's current request for a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: new cops. When I see liberal Democrats all over the country,
Speaker 1: both in newsrooms and in polity picks, UM talking about
Speaker 1: that this isn't a big deal and we need to
Speaker 1: pass a hundred cops just to have a little bit
Speaker 1: of talking points and success for the mid terms. Understand this.
Speaker 1: Voters who care about that and want a right wing
Speaker 1: fascist force UM taking over our society are going to
Speaker 1: vote for the Republicans anyway. People who care about building
Speaker 1: and investing in communities are looking for leadership on on
Speaker 1: things that we actually know work, like better schools, early
Speaker 1: childhood education programs in communities run by the people who
Speaker 1: are most impacted by these problems. I will say this
Speaker 1: story before I let you go, and I know I
Speaker 1: know what. I don't let you go. I will say this,
Speaker 1: so this is where I will disagree with you slightly.
Speaker 1: Time and time again, you'll find when you actually look
Speaker 1: at voting blocks, people do not have access to that
Speaker 1: information and so they do not vote accordingly. People will say,
Speaker 1: you know what, I just want crime in my neighborhood
Speaker 1: to go down. I feel like the Democrats are not
Speaker 1: serious about crime. I feel like, you know, we need
Speaker 1: better cops or more cops. I feel like because they
Speaker 1: maybe don't have the information or they haven't been given
Speaker 1: any possible solution that isn't policing, and so I think
Speaker 1: there's a difficult disconnect that may go back to if
Speaker 1: they read about it, if they see it, they would
Speaker 1: think about it as a possibility. So Alex, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining me on the show. Thank you
Speaker 1: said I thank you for your time, and hopefully we'll
Speaker 1: chat again. A foot usual full seas of anything now
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