1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: Holly from I'm Tracy V. Wilson. So we don't often 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: talk about Nazi history. No, we don't. It's I mean, 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: you might think we would more because of the Internet 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: where it's all Nazi talk all the time. But it's 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: one of those things that people have hashed out a lot, 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: and it's uh not something most people miss in history class. 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: But in talking with people lately, I have discovered that 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: some of the finer points maybe people don't always recall. Yeah, 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: some of the details get a little lost, Like we 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: know the broadstor everybody knows the broadstrokes, but particularly around 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: like Hitler's rise to power and sort of the steps 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: that happened that enabled him to basically claim that he 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: ruled everything in Germany, those get a little fuzzy for people. Yeah, 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of folks there, knowledge of 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: Hitler sort of begins in World War Two and not 18 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: all the stuff before that. Right, there's a lot of 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: knowledge of concentration camps and the things associated with that 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: and all of those atrocities of war, But there was 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: a long lead up to that, right, and we aren't 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: even covering all of it because it's one of those 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: figures where he has been so studied by by people 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: that are scholars of German history and Nazi history in particular, 25 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: that there's no way we can include every detail of 26 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: his life. And there are also pieces in here that 27 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: we're going to refer to you that are individual incidents 28 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: in history. We have one or the other of us 29 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: talked about doing as whole episodes before, and I think 30 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: I referenced in my notes that one of them could 31 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: become a whole episode in the future. But what we're 32 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: sort of talking about is Night of the Long Knives. 33 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: But what we're actually doing is a lot of stuff 34 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: leading up to that and why it was an important moment, 35 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: and then the night along and then the Night of 36 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: the Long Knives is actually the last segment. So for 37 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: just a quick context, over the course of several days 38 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: in ninety four, Adolf Hitler, who was at the time 39 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party leader and Reich Chancellor, directed an action 40 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: which eliminated basically all of his political enemies as well 41 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: as some personal enemies, and enabled him to declare himself 42 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: here but first as I said, we're going to need 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: to talk about what preceded that series of murders that 44 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: have come to be known as the Night of Long Knives. 45 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: It also goes by a couple of other names, and 46 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: we'll talk about those. So we're gonna do kind of 47 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: a brief history of Hitler's rise to power. Yes, the 48 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: National Socialist German Workers Party the Nazi Party was founded 49 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen under the banner of the German Workers Party, 50 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: and one of the primary drivers for its establishment was 51 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: some dissatisfaction at the terms that were set in the 52 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: Treaty of Versailles which ended World War One. These terms 53 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: called for Germany to make reparations. Yeah, those certainly were 54 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: not the only terms, but that's the big one that 55 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: really caused a lot of problems in terms of public 56 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: opinion in Germany and uh. The party was actually founded 57 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: initially by a locksmith named Anton Drexler, but he was 58 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: quickly usurped by an enthusiastic upstart Adolf Hitler, and that 59 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: change in leadership was also what brought about the name 60 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: change from the German Workers Party to the National Socialist 61 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: German Workers Party. From the moment that he took the 62 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: helm of the group, Hitler started working on a plan 63 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: which would be this guiding ideology of the party going forward. 64 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: It was a twenty five point program that included goals 65 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: of abandoning the Treaty of Versailles and expanding German territory. 66 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: And there was also a strong threat of anti Semitism throughout, 67 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: including the ideology that only those with German blood should 68 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: have citizenship and by that logic quote hence no Jew 69 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: can be a countryman. And thanks to UH the socialist 70 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: aspects at the time which shifted away from that and 71 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: the distrust of the German government in the twenty five 72 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: point program which drew the working class, the Nazi Party 73 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: experienced a really steady increase in membership in the early 74 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties and the fall of the group had accumulated 75 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of members and felt sort of so 76 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: confident in their their power that they thought they could 77 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: wield with that membership that they mounted what became known 78 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: as the Beer Hall pooch, also called the Hitler pooch 79 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: or the Munich pooch Uh. That's basically an attempted coup 80 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: de ta and that happened on November eighth and ninth. 81 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: The hope on the part of the Nazi Party was 82 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: that their attempted coup in Bavaria, where the party was headquartered, 83 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: would inspire the German army, which was really rife with frustration, 84 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: to carry this momentum forward and lead to an overthrow 85 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: of the government in Berlin. To that end, Hitler and 86 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: other leaders along with the stern bat Lugen, which is 87 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: also known as the Stormtroopers or the Essay And I'm 88 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: going to apologize for all of my German pronunciation in 89 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: this episode. I'm sure it is terrible. They begin at 90 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: a beer hall in Munich where the government leaders were 91 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: meeting with the intention to overthrow them, and then they 92 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: would march on Berlin to enact a full takeover of 93 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: Weimar Germany. But the plan was in fact a failure, 94 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: so instead of culminating in the government takeover, the whole 95 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: thing was shut down really quite quickly. The beginning of 96 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: the coup had gone as planned. They easily suppressed the 97 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: politicians that were in the beer hall, but when they 98 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: moved on to their next location at the building of 99 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: the Bavarian War Ministry, they were fired upon by police 100 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: and a riot followed we could and perhaps on day 101 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: we will do a whole episode just on the beer 102 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: Hall Puch like. That's been on my list for a while. 103 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: You and I have talked about it. But the outcome 104 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: was that Adolf Hitler was arrested and charged with treason 105 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: along with nine other men, and was ultimately sitting sentenced 106 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: to five years in prison and the Nazi Party was banned. 107 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: It was during his incarceration at Lansburg Jail for the 108 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: beer Hall Pusch that Hitler dictated my comp to his 109 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: personal secretary, Rudolf Hess, who had also been convicted and 110 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: was serving his sentence alongside Hitler. Hitler did not, however, 111 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: serve his full sentence. Pretty much from the moment of 112 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: his incarceration, the remnants of the Nazi Party, even though 113 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: that was technically outlawed, they still existed in a form 114 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: not under that name. UH dedicated their resources and energy 115 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: to pressuring the German government to release him, so he 116 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: served about nine months of his sentence. After his release, 117 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler set about re establishing the Nazi Party. The 118 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: ban on its existence was legally lifted after Hitler appealed 119 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: to the Bavarian Prime Minister and assured him that the 120 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: group would abide by the rules of the constitution. Hitler 121 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: organized and the reinvigorated party with extreme care in the 122 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: years that followed, and through deft framing of the Beer 123 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: Hall putch, November nine became Reich Day of mourning for 124 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: the Nazis who had been killed during the riot, and 125 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: it became a rallying point for the party. Germany's economic 126 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: depression at the end of the nineteen twenties really left 127 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: an opening for Hitler's Nazi rhetoric to win over supporters 128 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: from Germany's working class. Desperate out of work, Germans responded 129 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: to the criticisms of the existing government that they had 130 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: felt caused their troubled situations, so they were very happy 131 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: to join on with the people making those criticisms, which 132 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: were the Nazi Party. So elections started going to the 133 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: Nazi Party starting in about nineteen thirty. In nineteen thirty two, 134 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party reached a major milestone. It became the 135 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: largest party in the German Parliament, although it did not 136 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: hold a majority. This was a massive shift from the 137 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: previous election, in which the Nazi Party had only won 138 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: a handful of seats. In their Eichstag. Hitler actually ran 139 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: for president that same year, but he lost to Paul 140 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: von Hindenburg. Hindenburg, who was eighty four at the time 141 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: and not in terrific health, had won the presidency in 142 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: nine five, and he had been asked to run again 143 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: in nine teen thirty two because it was believed that 144 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: he was the only man who could win against Adolf Hitler. 145 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: But Hitler had garnered a significant following and he established 146 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: himself as a political force even without that election win. 147 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: In January of nineteen thirty three, Hendenberg selected Adolf Hitler 148 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: as Chancellor in an effort to appease the Nazi Party. 149 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: Hitler began as Chancellor on January thirty and immediately advised 150 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: President Hendenberg that the Reichstag, which was set at a 151 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: stalemate because no political party had managed to establish a majority. 152 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: He suggested that the Reichstag be dissolved and that new 153 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: elections be held, and a new election was called for 154 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: on March fifth, ninety three. Yeah, just for a little 155 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: bit of context, Hindenburgh thought that, you know, with a 156 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: vice chancellor there was not a Nazi and some other 157 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: people in prominent political positions like, surely they would be 158 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: able to keep this Hitler guy in check. No, that 159 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: didn't work out, and then the Reichstag building burned under 160 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: mysterious circumstances on February three. Debate about the cause of 161 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: the fire has actually continued right up to present day. 162 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: You will hear historians discussing it and debating the various theories. 163 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: But one of the most popular theories is that Yoseph 164 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: Goebbel's planned the fire with the intent to pin it 165 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: on the Communists, and as the Communist Party was the 166 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: was one of the Nazi Party's legitimate rivals in the 167 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: upcoming election, this plan was intended intended to cast a 168 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: shadow over that party and lose them some votes. The 169 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: day after the fire, Hitler leaned on Hindenburg to deliver 170 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: an emergency decree which stated, quote, restrictions on personal liberty, 171 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom 172 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: of the press, on the rights of assembly and association, 173 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communication, 174 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations, as well 175 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: as restrictions on property are also permissible beyond the legal 176 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: limits otherwise prescribed, and this was framed as being quote 177 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: for the protection of the people and the state. Hitler 178 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: levied leveraged control over the country's politics, culture, and society 179 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: to further stack the deck in favor of a Nazi 180 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: party success at the polls. In the upcoming election, Harman Gring, 181 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: who had become head of police, used the brute power 182 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: of his force to suppress most opposition, and the Nazis 183 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: did not win an outright majority, but Hitler's next move 184 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: made that a non issue. We're coming up on the 185 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: Enabling Act of N three, but before we get to that, 186 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: we will pause for a word from one of our sponsors. 187 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: As part of Hitler's consolidation of power, he wanted to 188 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: diminish the authority of the reichs Dog, which was bymar 189 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: Germany's legislative branch, and take that authority for himself. With 190 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: the votes of the supporting members of the Reichstag and 191 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: many members of reichs Dog not voting. Due to strong 192 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: arm tactics on the part of the essay in the 193 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: s s, including corralling many in what was called protective detention, 194 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: it was easy to get the Enabling Act of nineteen 195 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: thirty three, passed on March twenty four. The vote took 196 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: place in the Coral Opera House, which was being used 197 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: as the seat of the reichs Dog in the aftermath 198 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: of the fire which had burned down the municipal building 199 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: where they normally held that business. Hitler had ordered that 200 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: the Nazi party symbol, the Swatstika, be hung in massive 201 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: scale in the temporary reich stock Chamber. Germany's Supreme Court 202 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: accepted the passage of the Enabling Act with no challenge, 203 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: despite the dicey nature of the vote, and some judges 204 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: seemed to be unaware that anything out of the ordinary 205 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: parliamentary business had even taken place. So the Enabling Act 206 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: was also called the Law to Remedy the Distress of 207 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: People and the Reich, and one of the key passages 208 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: in that act read quote. In addition to procedures prescribed 209 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: by the Constitution, laws of the Reich may also be 210 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: enacted by the government of the Reich, and this meant 211 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: that Hitler, as Chancellor and head of the Reich Cabinet, 212 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,599 Speaker 1: could decree laws by himself by passing the approval of 213 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: the Reichstag. In essence, it legally sealed his dictatorship. Not 214 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: only could Hitler enact laws, he could also enter into 215 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: alliances or agreements with other countries without consulting the Reichstag 216 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: or having his decisions ratified by them. He could also 217 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: undo existing laws of the Weimar Constitution, again without any 218 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: checks or balances. With this passage of the Enabling Act, 219 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: the Reichstag had basically made itself obsolete. By nine four, 220 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: it was apparent that SA Chief of Staff Ernst Rome 221 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: had turned the Stormtrooper military into a mighty force, and 222 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: at that point it boasted almost three million men. And 223 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: we uh need to point out that at the same 224 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: time the German Army had only one thousand and men. 225 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: That was a capped number that had been outlined in 226 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: the Treaty of Versailles. So the Nazi Party actually had 227 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: far more military might than the Weimar government. Naturally, there 228 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: was some concern that the Essay was far too powerful. 229 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: Both President Hindenburg and Vice Chancellor Franz von Poppen were 230 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: troubled by the Nazi forces, but Hitler had his own 231 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: concerns about homes military. While Hitler knew that he needed 232 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: the Essay as part of his support structure. The aims 233 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: of the Nazi military had evolved to a point that 234 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 1: was also problematic for Hitler's goals. The Essays leadership wanted 235 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: to oust the remaining non Nazis from the government and 236 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: replace them with their own people. But Adolf Hitler, having 237 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: learned from the Beer Hall Putsch that using brute force 238 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: could backfire by turning people against the party, recognized that 239 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: consolidating power might be better achieved by working with the 240 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: elites and sort of more subtly ousting them. And he 241 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: had uh the party leaders that were not part of 242 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: the Essay, and he also had the shoot Staffle, which 243 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: was the s S, on the same page as him. 244 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: The disparity and approaches to bringing the Nazi Party to 245 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: ultimate power led to some friction. Hitler had also cultivated 246 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: animosity among the Nazi leadership, making it clear that they 247 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: should compete with one another to gain his favor. By 248 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: the spring of four Heinrich Hmmler and Reynard Hadrich, both 249 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: leaders in the s S, and Prussian Prime Minister Erman 250 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: guring we're discussing ways to get Hitler to rid the 251 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: party of Ernst Chrome. At the same time that Hendenburg 252 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: and German military leaders were raising concerns that the Nazi 253 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: Party was becoming increasingly radicalized. Himmler hedrick and gurring, we're 254 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: starting rumors at Chrome, already seen as the leader of 255 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: the most radical arm of the party, was plotting a 256 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: move to take over the party. Rome actually had no 257 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: such plan. He was a friend of Hitler's, but his 258 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: image as an ex dreamist made it really, really easy 259 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: for those rumors to gain traction. Hitler was in danger 260 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: of losing power if the vocally extreme elements of the 261 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: Nazi Party forced the German government's hand, but even as 262 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: his party was threatened by growing external and internal pressures, 263 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: he was hesitant when it came to deciding what to 264 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: do about the Essay. In early June, Adolf Hitler convinced 265 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: Room that the heads of the Essay should take an 266 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: extended leave, which began on June eight. But there was 267 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: still an ongoing and growing concern that the Nazi Party 268 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: was becoming a lawless entity, and nationalist opposition against it 269 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: began to swell. It was the threat of a more 270 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: organized move against the Nazi Party that finally tipped the 271 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: scales for Hitler, and by the end of the month, 272 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: he had made a decision to get rid of all 273 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: the problematic elements of the essay. He issued orders to 274 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: roam on June to gather the leaders of the essay 275 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: at a spot in by Visay, Bavaria. And next up, 276 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the Night of the Long Knives specifically, 277 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: which is actually used to refer to events that took 278 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: place over the course of several days. But before we 279 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: get into that, we're gonna pause and take a little 280 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: sponsor break. Two days later, the s S, led by 281 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: Theodore Ica, commandant of Dako, captured the assembled essay leaders 282 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: and moved them to Stobleheim prison in Munich. Most of 283 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: the men were shot, although Rome was spared until the 284 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: next day, because Hitler remained indecisive for a bit about 285 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: whether to execute him or not. When Rome was shot 286 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: on July one, he allegedly uttered the words Hyle Hitler 287 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: as he died, But the executions at Stottleheim weren't the 288 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: only ones carried out by the s S. Once Hitler 289 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: had decided to take action, he opted to eliminate all 290 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: possible threats to his leadership in the Nazi Party, and 291 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: to that end, the s s killed and estimated one 292 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: to two hundred people between June and July two. This 293 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: was an execution mission that was called Operation Hummingbird and 294 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: also came to be known as the Night of the 295 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: Long Knives or as the Home Purge. There are only 296 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: eighty five people identified by name as victims of the purge, 297 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: so exactly the exact number of people that Hitler had 298 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: killed outside of any sort of legal process is difficult 299 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: to discern. Since they went ahead with this without filing 300 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: any paperwork on it. Yeah, it's very hard to track 301 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: exactly how many people met their end. Victims of the 302 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: Purge included both political enemies and, as we mentioned earlier, 303 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: people with whom Hitler had personal Vendetta's General Kurt von Schleicher, 304 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: the man who preceded Hitler as wreck Chancellor Schliker's friend, 305 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: Major General Kurt Vondreidau, Schliker's wife. Also Gustav van Kar, 306 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: who was the Bavarian Chief of State who had withheld 307 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: support for the beer Hall Pusch. So, going all the 308 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: way back more than a decade of sort of vendetta, 309 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,239 Speaker 1: he was checking off his list that particular man was 310 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: hacked Apart with axes in a particularly brutal killing UH. 311 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: And former Nazi leader Gregor Strasser, who had attempted to 312 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: make a deal with Schliker when he was Reich Chancellor 313 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: that would have stopped Hitler from rising to power, was 314 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: also killed. So is Bernhard Stemfel, a former priest who 315 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: was rumored to have damning knowledge related to the death 316 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: of Jelly Rouble, which was Hitler's niece who had allegedly 317 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: committed suicide. That is another one of those stories. It 318 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: could be its own episode potentially, basically anyone Hitler thought 319 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: might challenge him or have information that could hurt him. 320 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: At least one victim was killed due to a mix 321 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: up of identity. Munich music critic Willie Schmidt was murdered, 322 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: but the s S had intended to target UH. An 323 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: essay commander of the same name and Vice Chancellor Franz 324 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: von Poppin, who had been one of the loudest voices 325 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: warning of the Nazi Party growing more radical, was also 326 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: a target, but escaped to have visit AIDS though we're 327 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: not so fortunate. The day after Operation Hummingbird concluded, so 328 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: that was July three, a law was issued by the 329 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: Right Cabinet at Hitler's order, and this law framed the 330 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: executions as an emergency action, claiming that they needed to 331 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: be carried out to protect Germany against agents who threatened 332 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: the nation, and thus retroactively making the mass murders legal. 333 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: It's well known today that the Nazi Party Party widely 334 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: used propaganda, and the period after the Night of the 335 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: Long Knives as a prime example of how false information 336 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: was used to gain public favor and to damage enemies. 337 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: Under the direction of Google's a story of treason and 338 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: treachery was spun out, which cemented the idea that people 339 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: who had been killed the people who have been killed 340 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: Hitler's order, were all dame or as enemies of the state. Additionally, 341 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: Rome's homosexuality, which allegedly people had known about, became a 342 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: focus of interests, so while it had been a point 343 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: of relatively common knowledge, Himmler took advantage of this moment 344 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: to claim that other homosexuals at Rome associated with had 345 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: been a threat to national security. Himler further leveraged this 346 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: piece of propaganda to launch a series of legal actions 347 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: against homosexuality, including new laws against homosexual acts and much 348 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: more severe punishments for anyone who was found guilty of homosexuality. 349 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: On July thirteenth, thirty four, Hitler made a speech to 350 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: the Reichstag in which he justified this entire operation, and 351 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: as Supreme Ruler of Germany, he claimed he had used 352 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: his power to defend the country, and that event in 353 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties Germany is often pointed to as the moment 354 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: that really cemented Hitler's rise to power. And by that event, 355 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: I mean the whole night of the Long Knives, not 356 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: his speech that Tracy referenced. While the Essay continued to 357 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: exist as a tool of destruction after the purge, that 358 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: swift and violent action against Rome and other leaders within 359 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: the essay exercised any thoughts of ambition for the military 360 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: forces to really challenge Hitler's power or even stand as 361 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: a major player in the regime's power structure. Because the 362 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: purge was a strike on the Essay, it also gained 363 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: Hitler favor with the German army that had seen the 364 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: Nazi military as a challenger. Prior to the purge, the 365 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: s S had been a branch of the Essay, but 366 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: Hitler officially recognized them as a separate and independent entity 367 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: on July four. This gave Himmler a position of increased power, 368 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: able to confer directly with Hitler, and made it possible 369 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: for the ss to take control of the police force 370 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: as well as assumed command of the concentration camp system. 371 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: Within a couple of years, the s S had completely 372 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: supplanted the previously existing German police force. Hindenberg died of 373 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: lung Can sir in early August nineteen thirty four, and 374 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: after he was gone, and leading up to that, he 375 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: was infirmed, so it also meant that he was not 376 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: particularly powerful, But after he had died, the last vestiges 377 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: of democratic government in Germany were systematically undone. On August nineteenth, 378 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: Hitler proclaimed himself sure, and because of the alliance that 379 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: had formed in the wake of Operation Hummingbird, the German 380 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: army supported him. The Night of the Long Knives was 381 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: used as a representative action on the part of the 382 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: s S by Himmler. It proved he would later say 383 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,959 Speaker 1: that the s S was loyal and willing to do 384 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: anything required to preserve the nation. He invoked it in 385 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties when speaking of the Final Solution, assuring 386 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: the high ranking members of the Nazi regime that his 387 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: men were willing and able to carry out atrocities for 388 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: the quote annihilation of the Jewish people. It's important to 389 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: remember too that the world outside Germany had a really 390 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: wide range of reactions to the Night of the Long Knives. 391 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: British cartoonist David Lowe published a drawing of essay officers 392 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: surrendering in fear before Hitler holding a smoking gun and 393 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: gurring dressed as a barbarian and carrying a bloody spear, 394 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: and the caption on it read, they salute with both hands. Now. 395 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: There's also a truly chilling right up in the Daily Mail, 396 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: which wrote a lot of pro Hitler and pro fascist 397 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: pieces during this period, and here is a quote from it. 398 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: Harry Adolf Hitler, the German Chancellor, has saved his country 399 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: swiftly and with exorable severity. He has delivered Germany from 400 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: men who had become a danger to the unity of 401 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: the German people and to the order of the state. 402 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: With lightning rapidity. He has caused them to be removed 403 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: from high office, to be arrested and put to death. 404 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: The names of the men who have been shot by 405 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: his orders are already known. Hitler's love of Germany has 406 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: triumphed over private friendships and fidelity to comrades who had 407 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: stood shoulder to shoulder with him in the fight for 408 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: Germany's future. But it's so creepy to read that that's 409 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: uh in present day because of course now we know 410 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: that with Hitler, assuming the role of Shure, events were 411 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: in motion that would lead to World War Two, of course, 412 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: and atrocities on an epic scale that most people do 413 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: know about. Uh well, and even even without that piece 414 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: of the context, it's pretty horrifying for a paper to 415 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: be praising a mass murder carried out in as extra judicial. Yeah. Yeah, 416 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: And it's interesting it came up briefly in our our 417 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: episode with Victoria Price actually that when Vincent Price was traveling, 418 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: I forget what the years were, early early on and 419 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: all of that, Like even he and he was very 420 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: young at the time when changed his position pretty drastically, 421 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: but he initially came away thinking, wow, that's a really 422 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: organized like state. They're really going to fix Germany. And 423 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: of course a lot of people thought that, and it 424 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: there was such a sort of false representation going on 425 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: that easy to see how some people were lured in 426 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: by the whole thing, yes, especially before the murder. Yes, yeah, 427 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: of course, Uh yeah. I don't know how you hear 428 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: about all of that, like someone going, oh, over the 429 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: last two days, I killed all of my enemies, and 430 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: you go, that seems like a really smart, good move, Like, 431 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: I don't know how you say that, but no, And 432 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: it also reads very like there are historical accounts of 433 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, monarchs hundreds of years ago eliminating enemies and 434 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: hearing such a similar story of a dictator doing the 435 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: same thing, and I'm in the modern world. To me, yeah, 436 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: why is this thing seeming more horrifying because it's seems 437 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: like we as a as species should have learned to 438 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: not do that. But maybe that's we as a species 439 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: should have learned. It doesn't always work. I know. Do 440 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: you have some listener mail? Isn't happier than that? It is, 441 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: It's much happier. This is from our listener Bill, and 442 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: he says, Hi, Holly and Tracy. Regarding the Tuskegee Syphilist 443 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: study episode, he says he's a huge fan. I'm gonna 444 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: skip that part because I feel weird reading praise and 445 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: he says, but as a physician for over forty years 446 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: and having performed I guess one thousand spinal taps, and 447 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: as a patient when I was four years old and 448 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: had a spinal tap, I could say that a spinal 449 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: tap should never be horrifying. So for context, in case 450 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: you don't recall, we have talked about spinal taps in 451 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: that episode, and we neither of us had a particularly 452 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: favorable UH commentary on it. It's a very scary thing. 453 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people. I think that 454 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: the idea is frightening. And then we have each had 455 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: some unique experiences that were non delightful, not not to 456 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: either of us, but people that we need family. So 457 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: but it's cool because Bill is here to save the 458 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: day and reassure people. So he says, in skilled hands 459 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: and with proper sedation and anesthesia, a spinal tap is 460 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: not pleasant, but it should not be horrifying. There are 461 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: many medical tests I would personally be terrified to have, 462 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: but a spinal tap is not one of them. I 463 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 1: know you wouldn't encourage parents not to vaccinate their children, 464 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: but spinal tap phobia is also a real thing and 465 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: actually leads patients and the parents of children to refuse 466 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: spinal taps when hours and minutes can literally be in 467 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: the balance if meningitis is suspected. I cringe when the 468 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: words spinal tap are used on TV to invoke what 469 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: is presented is the most awful thing that a doctor 470 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: can recommend. I hope I'm not sounding like I'm lecturing you. 471 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: I love your show, especially the episodes about gay people 472 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: in history. We have always been marginalized or just outright 473 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: ignored in school history class, so I'm excited to finally 474 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: learn we have been there every step of the way 475 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: historically speaking. And of course Bill is a percent correct. 476 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: You should not not to get a procedure done because 477 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: you are scared of it. I think if that were 478 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: the case, I would probably just stay at home in 479 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: a dark room most of the top time. I'm not 480 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,959 Speaker 1: really scared of the world, but medical stuff I get 481 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: twitchy about. I think most people do. I don't think 482 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: there's there's any There are very few people who are like, yeah, 483 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: do all the tests, do all the pokey and prodding 484 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: you like it's cool? I don't mind, but don't let 485 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: that fear keep you from getting proper treatment or testing. Yeah. 486 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: I have a weirdly high tolerance for pretty much everything 487 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: except dental x rays, and there was I hate with 488 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: a horrible passion. They're not fun. Although my dentist, which 489 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: used to be your dentist when you lived here, it's 490 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: pretty good at them. Yeah, much less horrifying than anywhere 491 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: else I've gone. Yeah, it's the biting on the weird 492 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: thing to get the picture. The weird thing makes me 493 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: want to throw up on people. Gag inducing for a 494 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: lot of people. But that I mean, you shouldn't have them. 495 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: You need to get your dental x rays so they 496 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: know what's going on. Yes, even if your teeth are great, 497 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: you need the baseline so that you can see what's 498 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: going on as as time goes by and recognize when 499 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: changes have happened that should be addressed. Sure, it's just 500 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: like keeping a regular blood test on file with your doctor. 501 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: They can recognize when your numbers are changing and maybe 502 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: you need to treat them. Uh so, yes, Bill, thank 503 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: you for the reminder. We should never ever say I 504 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: don't want to do that. Nobody wants to do a 505 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: lot of those things. But you still should always get Again, 506 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: we said it in the Tuskegee Studied episode. You should 507 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: monitor your health health screenings following your doctor's advice more 508 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: so than two podcasters. Doctor. Yes, don't google things on 509 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: the internet looking for medical advice. Go to a real doctor. 510 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: That's what they're there for. And I you know, they 511 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: want to make you healthy and feel better. That's a 512 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: good thing. Do that. If you want to write to us, 513 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: you can do so at History podcast a househoworks dot com. 514 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: You can also find us across the broad spectrum of 515 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: social media as at mist in History. That means that 516 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: we're on Twitter as miss atmost in History. 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