WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: How E-Bikes Work 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.520 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.040 job in Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.159 and I love all things tech and it's time for 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:24.200 a tech Stuff classic. This episode, originally published on February four, 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:29.280 two thousand and fifteen, is titled how E Bikes Work. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.760 I hope you enjoy. I remember doing this episode because 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.280 I also remember taking a test drive on an e 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.400 bike and nearly wiping out because it has been so 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.040 long since i'd ridden a bicycle. You know that that phrase, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.720 it's like riding a bike. Um, well, I guess for me, 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.400 it just doesn't take like it does for other people. Anyway, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.839 here's the classic episode, how e Bikes Work. You've been 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.440 around for a while, and you've talked a lot about cars, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.760 But this time I thought we'd talked about something a 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.040 little different. We're gonna talk about bikes, which, as you 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.319 mentioned before we started recording. Uh, the E stands for 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:07.800 the sound you make when you're writing it. That's if 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:12.279 you're going downhill really fast. I guess I often follow 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.440 that up with a series of other sounds, some of 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.560 which make words that I can't say on this podcast, 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.400 but we were talking about electric bicycles, various types of 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.880 electric bicycles and kind of some of their counterparts that 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:29.440 are similar to them. And you might have seen stuff 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.120 about e bikes recently. Uh, there's been a couple of 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.600 products that have been coming out of the prototype stage 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.480 that have made it something that is more accessible to 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.440 the general public. Before I would say there were it 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:48.040 was like a very niche audience, like bicycle enthusiasts and uh, 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.760 some do it yourselfers who really were into this. But 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:56.120 now we're actually seeing it where people who are living 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.520 in maybe city environments can get hold of these, especially 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.320 if they're try trying to transition from car ownership to 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.720 something else. I mean, you've probably heard the story about 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:11.080 millennials not flocking to car ownership the way previous generations have. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:12.960 In fact, we talked about that a couple of times 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:17.839 in previous episodes. So bicycles are becoming more and more 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.000 important in the United States. They've been important in other 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.880 parts of the world for ages, and electric bikes are 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.839 becoming a big part of that. But here's the interesting thing. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.120 A long way to go for this, but they're not 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.880 a new idea. No, no, no, they're far from a 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.679 new idea. In fact, this goes back oh what a 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.679 hundred and twenty some years now, say what Yeah, a 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.840 long long time ago. So went back to uh, I 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.280 want to say, it's in the late eighteen hundreds, right, right, Um, 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.000 I think my notes say the mid to late eight 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.839 d nineties. But the first one that I've actually got 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.960 an account for, you know, the actual date that was given, 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:01.120 it's right around and it had a double electric motor design. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:02.960 Now there may have been one prior to that, I'm 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.200 not sure, but actually had two electric motors. And we've 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.200 talked about the complexity of a two motor design earlier. 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.120 Today it seems like it would be an impossible thing 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.000 to do, really nearly impossible. At least, it would seem impractical. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.639 That's it. Maybe not impossible, but impractical, that's a better 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.239 way to say it. Because we talked about the pros 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.440 and cons of different types and how they work and 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.480 and the characteristics of each one, and what you would 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.000 have to do to pair two of them together to 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.440 make them work in tandem. Yeah, what happens if you 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.119 cut the power to one and you forget to cut 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:31.920 the power to the other and then next thing you know, 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.480 you're doing flips. Well, I have a feeling in it 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.520 wasn't quite as complex as we're making it out to be. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.480 It's probably a lot simpler. But then in uh In, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.960 just one year later, there was a drive belt design 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.280 that came around, which is, yeah, it is kind of 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.320 cool because that's different than what we're seeing today, which 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.600 you might think you're seeing that today, but you're seeing 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.200 probably a version of a moped really or something like that, 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:55.560 which we'll talk about the difference of that too. And 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.360 then in nine this is one that I really wanted 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.320 to talk about just for a second, there was a patent, 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.360 you know, pulled for a friction roller wheel design, which 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.320 is really unusual, and this is one that we haven't 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.680 seen maybe ever on a bicycle recently. Can I like 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.000 a guess on what this is? Sure, because I haven't 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.120 read the patent, so why would guesses? This means that 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.040 there would be an electric motor that would turn a 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.880 small wheel that is actually right up against one of 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.240 the primary wheels in the bicycle, and the rotation of 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.279 the small wheel is translated into the rotation of the 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:35.160 larger wheel. That's exactly right. Now. It seems very inefficient, 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:36.800 isn't it to do it that way it was it 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.880 was mounted I guess, would be behind the rider's seat 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.919 above the wheel, and it would it would the pressure 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.440 was a downward force on the wheel, on the surface 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.120 of the wheel where it would contact the road. And 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.039 that translated to as you said, the you know, the 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.840 drive the actual drive wheel, which to me, that would 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.480 be not just inefficient because obviously the smaller wheel is 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.919 gonna have to rotate many, many, many more times fast 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.920 er than the large wheel, right, but also it means 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.320 adding more wear and tear on that particular wheel of 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.840 your bike. You're exactly right, and it just seems like 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.040 it seems like a difficult design to make work. But 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.159 I just wanted to tell you that, you know, even 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.560 prior to nine, people are really thinking about this. They're really, 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.719 you know, considering the idea that an electric bike is 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.200 something that is necessary to get around town. And quite honestly, 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.159 you know, where did they have It's not like they 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.640 were in a crowded city at that point. Probably it's 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.359 not likely, uh they might have been, but um, it 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.200 would it would be more for you know, like a 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.200 country ride or something like that that they would use 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.240 it for, right, I would imagine. So, I mean, unless 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:39.560 you're talking about you know, your your when you see 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:41.680 the rise of the city's really because the rise of 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.040 the automobile. When you see the rise of the automobile, 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.880 which gave rise to to cities getting larger and larger 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.400 and more sprawl. Perhaps you could argue that the bike 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.719 would have been useful for someone who cannot afford a 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.200 full automobile but still needs to make a commute. But 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.440 we often here in the United States in particular, we 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:05.080 have often thought about bicycles as recreational devices. Right, this 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.279 is the thing that we use. You want to go 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.560 out and get some exercise, you want the fresh air, 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.280 you want a nice relaxing ride. And uh. In fact, 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.400 when we were first talking about doing this topic, it 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:18.840 was only when we started talking about the possibility of 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.560 using a bike in instead of a car or taking 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.200 public transportation in order to get around regularly. That's something 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.400 like an electric bike really started to make sense, because 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.240 otherwise you kind of want that that exertion, that's part 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:33.880 of the experience. Let me let me just for one 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.560 second go back and kind of defend my, my, my 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.760 country ride example, because the lay that I I picture 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.680 UM cities right around the turn of the century, you know, 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.279 the turn of the nineteenth century, is that they were 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.440 they were crowded with cars which were relatively new at 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.520 the time, brand new at the time, UM, carriages, lots 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.920 of horses, lots of people walking. But I don't necessarily 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.520 think of seeing a lot of a lot of bicycles 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.240 in city environments. That's start from photos of that day, 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.360 of that era or depictions of it, you know, whether 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:04.919 it be drawings or whatever, you don't see a lot 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.000 of bicycle riders. However, today in crowded cities, you do 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.360 see a lot of bicycle riders. I mean, that's that, 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.600 and especially in places like China where it's extremely crowded 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.680 and you know, maybe not everybody can afford a motorcycle, 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.560 right or or a big scooter, um or that's definitely 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.240 not a car. Bicycle is a good option. But as 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.600 you said, UM, they're not necessarily in it for you know, 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.800 exercise or to get out and you know, to get 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.440 the get the heart pumping or whatever, especially in places 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.960 where pollution might be so bad that you don't necessarily 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:35.880 want to be breathing are Now this is just like 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.480 an inexpensive method of transportation, way to commute and uh 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.760 and also you know, to take up as little space 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.560 as possible when you're not using that thing, right. Yeah, 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.480 So now we're starting to see this grow in popularity 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.000 here in the United States, like I said, in some 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.440 parts of the world and in parts of Europe. It's all, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.200 it's been popular for years and in fact, electric bikes 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.040 have been around for quite some time in in both 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.640 Europe and the units aids as well as Asia. But 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.760 these are uh, you know, we've seen a lot of 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.200 development over the last i'd say a couple of decades. 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.040 We've seen really some some interesting development to the point 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:16.040 where it's become uh, something that the average consumer can 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.200 can be aware of as opposed to you know, the 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.960 bike enthusiasts. Part of that is battery technology. I don't 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:23.800 know if I'm jumping ahead of you here, but but 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.840 part of that is battery technology because lead acid batteries, 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:28.840 that's the kind of battery that you typically find in 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.240 an automobile, a typical and not not one of the 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:35.000 newer ones. But um, they're big, they're heavy, they're bulky, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.360 I mean it's just it's difficult to carry that kind 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.560 of weight around on a bike. You're trying to remain 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.679 as light as possible with this type of setup, as 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.960 we'll talk about in a moment. But um, you know, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.040 with some of the newer battery technology, like lithium ion 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.520 batteries or even you know, some of the nickel cadmium 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.719 batteries from you know, or nickel metal hydride batteries, or 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.719 or even the seal some of these, I guess the 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.800 sealed lead acid batteries. Some of them are small enough 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.920 that could you know, you could potentially use them, but 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.520 the lead acid batteries tend to be a lot heavier 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.560 than the other types of batteries. Yeah. The other thing 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.480 that uh, you know, those batteries have been a challenge, 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.280 not just from a science perspective, but also safety obviously 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.400 lithium ion in particular. You know, you don't you want 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.240 to be really uh you don't you don't want to 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.560 overheat your lithium ion batteries. Well, and it's not a 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.960 great idea to also be biking around with a box 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.360 of sulfuric acid. Yeah, that's that's what it is. Yeah, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.200 that's that can be a bit of a that could 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:29.640 be a bit of a drag if things go wrong. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.320 But yeah, yeah, I mean, like I think of here 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.240 in here, in Atlanta, for example, things can get pretty hot. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.040 So imagine that you have a really hot day and 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.520 you're taking your electric bike for a ride, and you've 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.320 got your battery or lithium ion battery, and you're you know, 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.160 you have to hit dead Man's Hill. It's the craziest 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.400 hill in Atlanta, which I just made up, and uh you, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.640 so you kicked the bike into full gear to try 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.000 and help you as much as it can to get 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.560 up there. I can imagine that lithium ion battery getting 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:04.720 really kind of deteriorating rapidly due to we're operating at 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.360 such a high temperature. The heat is the worst enemy 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.760 of batteries. I mean, I know that they die often 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.960 in cold weather, but heat is where the real damage occurs. 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.600 And then you don't realize it until it's cold and 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.719 all those chemical reactions are slowing down, and that's when 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.000 you really feel that you feel the pain from you know, 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.480 the damage that was done in the summer months right now. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.800 Of course, the nice thing is that most of the 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.719 systems we're talking about. In fact, all the ones I'm 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:34.040 familiar with have replaceable batteries. So worst case scenario as 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.400 you swap out a dead battery for a new one, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.160 obviously you want to preserve the life of your batteries 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.800 as long as possible for multiple reasons. Financial would be 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.679 a big one, but also just you know, it's more 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.040 environmentally friendly to go easy on your battery so that 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.560 you don't have to have I don't have to worry about, well, 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.640 how do I dispose of this thing now that potentially 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:55.960 has toxic materials in it. But let's be honest, the 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:57.760 financial reason is the big one. That's the big one. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.680 I mean, it is the big one. I mean. Another 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.480 thing we need to point out is electric bikes can 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.079 be pretty expensive. Even the conversion kits where you can 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.360 turn your existing bike into electric bike, some of those 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.120 can be some of those can dwarf the price of 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.880 your original bike. Absolutely. I've seen kits, just conversion kits 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.880 that that range anywhere from you know, I think it 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:22.120 was about seven seventy five dollars up to two thousand dollars, 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.400 where you're not getting an entire bike, you're getting the 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.720 kit to make your existing bike into an e bike. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.000 And and of course the two thousand dollar kit comes 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.439 with everything you would ever want, all the sensors. The 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.720 seven hundred and seventy five dollar kit doesn't even have 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.079 a battery with it, and I think there's no controller. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.880 I mean, it's just it's it's a very basic, basic 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.880 kit where you're gonna have to add parts to it 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.040 in order to make that even work. So it can 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.800 be expensive. But maybe maybe it's better just to buy 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.040 a bike right from the manufacturer. Yeah, yeah, there there 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.360 are choices, right, I mean, you can get a bike 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.120 that is designed as an electric bike from the beginning, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.800 and it's got the systems all integrated into it already, 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.360 so it's going to Those are gonna look the nicest. Obviously, 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.200 they're gonna cost a lot. They're gonna cost a lot. 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.960 If you convert a bike, then depending upon the conversion 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:09.800 kit you have, if it's one of those where it's 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.839 a real d I O Y kind of approach, it'll work, 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.760 but it'll probably also look kind of weird because the 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.160 bike that you have was not originally intended to be 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.040 an electric bike. You had to add all these different 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.280 components on it. You have to put a battery pack 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.040 somewhere on that thing, and sometimes that means that you 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.640 have a big bulky section of the middle of the bike. 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.440 But there are other types of electric bike converter kits 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.680 as well that um incorporate all the elements into the 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.520 hub of either the front wheel or the rear wheel. 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:41.400 Those are kind of cool. Now, it does mean that 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.800 the hub of that tire is going to look enormous 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.440 compared to a normal bicycle tire. But but all the 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.679 other elements are hidden away, right. You don't have, uh, 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.680 you know, and there're only a couple of examples of this, 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.040 but you don't have like a big external battery pack 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.720 that's hanging off one of the bars of your bicycle 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.640 unless unless you go back to one of those kids 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.600 like we've talked about, where you know that you do 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.280 have a big canvas bag that has a battery attached 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.480 to it, and that's a speed controller and all the 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.600 other electronics that go along with this. And you know, 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.800 I mean that stuff is gonna be zip tied to 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:15.679 the frame of your bike. I mean it's not it's 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.320 going to look like it's a kid that you added 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.120 onto your bike. It's not going to be as as 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.520 buttoned up as the as the bike that would come 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.800 from the manufacturer. Look, because they you know, they drill 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.640 holes in the frame and they feed the wire through 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.679 there and it only exits where it needs to. It's 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.600 very uh, it's very minimally obtrusive, I guess on the 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.760 on the design of the bike. Yeah, as opposed to 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.040 have zip ties every couple of inches pulled everything in place. 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.400 And there's still kind of is that element of these 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.599 even even with the manufacturer built ones, you know, the 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.360 ones that come from the factory you know where I 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.080 don't know how many they build a day, maybe, you know, 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.600 it depends on the place, I guess, but it would 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.080 I would think it's very few because these are hand 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.079 assembled of course. Um, but yeah, they're they're pretty well 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.040 buttoned up, but they still have a little bit of 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.600 that you know, uh, a little bit of that look 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.680 like it was kind of made it a work bench. Yeah, 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.800 a little jankie, but a little bit, but in a 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.760 good way, like kind of in that that you know again, 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.199 like that d I Y sort of approach. And they're 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.760 getting better and better. Yeah, and so I guess it's 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.280 good to talk about, you know, the different types of 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.960 electric bikes as well as to compare them against other 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:20.680 powered bicycles. So the powered bicycle I always thought of 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.760 when I was growing up, it was not electric at all. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.720 It was it was gas powered. It was the motorized bicycle, 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.440 the moped mo. Yeah, so you've got the motorized and 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.280 pedal p e D the moped or velociped. Some people 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.640 say that's from the old term for bicycle velocopied, which 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.560 dates to even earlier in the uh, you know, the 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:47.040 the nineteenth century. Uh that was my favorite arcade game philosophy. Yeah, 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:48.920 where you had to, you know, to shoot the little 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.760 Penny Farthings as they came down the screen. Um. Yeah. 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:58.440 The the moped is similar in many ways to electric bicycles, 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.920 except of course it's not running on electric date it's 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.240 got an actual motor tiny gas engine. I should see 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.640 a tiny gasolene engine. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And that's 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.120 what I tend to think of too when I think 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.960 of of a pedal assisted powered vehicle and I think 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.720 of that, That's that's the one I go to. Is 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.920 like that old moped design where you see you would 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:17.960 see somebody pedaling like crazy to either get it moving, 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.240 or more typically, you would just see the pedals, you know, 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.080 remaining where they are. People would have their feet on 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.120 the pedals, but it would be all you know, gasoline 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:28.960 power that they're using. They're using just the engine to 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:31.680 propel themselves forward. Yeah, they've got a throttle control, and 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.320 the throttle control provides the power which drives the drive 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.360 train and you don't have to do any pedaling at 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.560 all to keep it going. It was very rare to 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.280 see somebody actually pedaling a moped to the point now 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.880 where the term moped, by at least some people, is 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.600 used as a generic term for any non motorcycle motorized 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.920 two wheel vehicle. Okay, this is where we had a 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.320 little discussion about this at our desks earlier, because we 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.280 sitting next to each other in the office and we 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:00.880 were kind of throwing the back and forth a little 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.680 bit like, Okay, if if this is a moped, what 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.880 what is a scooter? And then how do you differentiate 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.600 between that and a motorcycle? And you know, there's there's 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.440 traditional ways to do that. By engine size. You can 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.440 you can say that you know, a moped is between 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.000 forty nine ccs and all the way up too ccs. 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.240 But now I think that there's some uh what they 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.120 call I want to say, they're called like maxi scooters 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.360 that are bigger than that. They're capable of going faster, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.360 but they're still considered a scooter. But they're allowed on roads, 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.000 but not on highways. And you do sit with your 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.200 feet forward, you know, on a platform in front of 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.680 the chairs, so there's like a pass through between the 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.360 handlebars and where you sit. You're not on you don't 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.480 have your feet on pedals in other words, or pegs 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:41.640 as you would on a motorcycle. It's on like a 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.720 little just its own little platform. But some of those 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.400 maxi scooters are capable of you know, eighty miles per 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.560 hour seventy five mile pur or something like that. Um, 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.480 that's not the typical scooter that I think of. I 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.920 think of the old vespas, you know, which we're you know, 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.440 the older ones, which are creeping along at about thirty 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.200 miles per hour max. But they did have that traditional 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.320 seating position where you can you can picture that right 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.480 with the platform in front, where your your feet are 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.960 side by side in front of you, And that's what 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.919 I think of. They didn't have a pedal mechanism at 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:10.840 all like a moped does. So that to me was 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:15.520 the break between scooters and mopeds. But now I guess 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.160 there's a blurred line between what's a moped and what's 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.600 a scooter. Yeah, I think it's just. I think it's 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.640 just in the use of the term being very casual 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.840 about it, right, I don't think it's I think if 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.480 you were to nail someone down and say no, let's 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.080 let's get to the technical uh distinction between these, they 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.560 would agree. But I think casually people refer to practically 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.560 anything that doesn't look like a motorcycle as a moped 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.600 or a scooter or one of the other. And honestly, 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.120 it really doesn't matter. We're just trying to to segment 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.600 these different things into and just find a way to 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.720 discuss them where everybody can picture the same thing. Now. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.400 The interesting thing also about mopeds to me is that 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.359 some of them are designed so that, yeah, you could 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.919 pedal and propel them just under pedal power if you 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.760 needed to, like if the engine died or ran gas. Uh, 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.160 It's not easy to do. This is a very heavy vehicle. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.440 Sometimes it looks like you're peddaling like crazy and you're 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.040 not really getting anywhere some of them. Really, the pedals 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.480 were more about getting the engine started right, so it 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.359 wasn't about providing any form of propulsion. It was just 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.879 about getting the engine to the point where you could 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:25.000 get the ignition going and take off. So uh, that 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.879 kind of separates it from electric electric bikes in another way. 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.840 So you've got two big separations. One you're not using 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.720 gas with electric bikes. But the other is that with 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.040 a true E bike, you are supposed to be able 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.840 to pedal and power the bike, or you use some 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.560 form of pedal assists. That's where you get the ped 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.920 alex type of bikes, So that's that's often what they're called, 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.240 where they are providing some of the power to turn 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.320 the wheel of the bicycle so that it offsets some 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.159 of the force needed. And then you have power on 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:06.560 demand electric bicycles where the electric motor is providing all 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.199 the power you need to propel the bike forward, and 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.840 you can you can cut the motor off and then 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.520 continue to pedal, or if you just want to have 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.600 a real easy ride of it, you just power the 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.600 throttle and that gives the electric motor the power to 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.400 push the bike board on it, so it's you're using 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.560 it as if it was a scooter. Yeah, not a 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.359 bicycle at all. Right, for the power on demand systems, okay, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:30.880 And the pedal X when you mentioned that, I think 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:32.600