WEBVTT - And, This is More With Speaker Newt Gingrich 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:16.800 This is Gavin Newsom and Newke Gingridge continues, you worked 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.240 on this book, which again is you know, it's very 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.200 much in the spirit of Reagan to you talk about 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:25.840 his last speech. I mean, I mean that's where he 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.360 talked about Lady Liberty's torch. And you know, we talked 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.360 about that life force of New Americans, et cetera, and 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:37.279 and and and again. My my fundamental concern about this 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.720 assault on higher education is the impact that we'll have 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.840 in terms of our capacity to get these pH ds 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:45.960 and stem folks and and to be able to pull 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:48.400 uh that chill it's already I think having around the 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:50.080 rest of the world, but pull the best in the 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.680 brightest minds and and and keep them as part of 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:57.120 that innovation cycle. But you you specifically, I'm you brought 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.920 up in the book, which I loved, the Chinese Exclusion Act, 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:01.880 and you know, so much of that comes from you know, 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.280 the embers of that are very familiar folks out here 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:08.039 in the Bay Area. You know, I remember what I 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:12.280 would refer to unfairly. I would admit this guy Dennis Kerney, 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.000 who was sort of the original Trump, and he began 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.040 and ended every speech by saying, whatever else we do. 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.759 The Chinese must go, and they were building virtual walls 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.560 to keep the Chinese out, and of course the beginning 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.360 of the Chinese Exclusion Act ultimately came out of the 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.440 Bay Area and some of those movements. But interesting to 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:36.480 me is we're now close to peak immigration. Again. We 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.840 dropped very low in nineteen seventy I think it was 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.240 four point eight percent, don't quote me, and now we're 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.679 closer to fourteen fourteen point eight wherever it is, again, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.600 don't quote me, but it's significantly grown. How concerned are 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:51.800 you talk about assimilation? You talked about the things you 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.600 can't talk about from a European prism. But as you 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.400 balance the journey to America and you balance this immigration 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.640 debate and deal with the ish of criminal behavior and 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.840 quote unquote illegal immigration as you refer to it, how 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:06.880 do we find a balance? How do we strike that 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.200 balance at peril we go back to the instincts of 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:15.080 the eighteen eighties, or go back, frankly to well, I 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.920 mean maybe we're back there today. Curious you're assessment, I 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:19.359 think no. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.920 I think first of all, there were two huge challenges. 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.119 One is sheer volume. I mean, you can't have six 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.760 eight nine million people crossing the border illegally. The other 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:37.960 which I began writing about in the eighties, I was 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.639 visited one of the congressmen in Georgia by vietname. He's 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.720 a small business owner who said that when he came 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.600 over after the fall of Saigon, he and his brother 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.680 arrived and he went straight to work, and his brother 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.040 got hooked up in southern California with the welfare office 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.160 and learned that you could get public housing, and you 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.680 could get food stamps and so forth. And so his 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:04.440 brother never developed the kind of entrepreneurial drive because life 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:09.480 was adequate. And it hit me that what had worked 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.160 historically in America, which was very tough, people should not 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.840 kid themselves. You know. Clossa's grandmother came through all As Island. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.600 We actually went up and looked at her. Her signature 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:21.440 and her. 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.359 From Poland, Is that right, huh Polish? 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.440 Yeah, she's her grandmother's Polish on her father's side. Ironically, 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.520 since she's been nominated to the ambassador of Switzerland, her 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.119 grandmother on the on the Swiss side, which is her mother, 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.200 is from Burn, So she's actually gone back to her 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:46.720 grandmother's home area. But the paternal grandmother came from Poland 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.960 in nineteen o eight and you can literally track her 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.120 coming in. Well, every person that came in was inspected 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.640 for health, and if you had a communicable disease, you 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.400 were excluded and sent back. Everybody was checked to see 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.160 if they were willing to go to work, and if 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.760 you weren't prepared to work, you were sent back. I mean, 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.120 it wasn't you know, It wasn't an automatic open door. 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.440 It was it was a it was a controlled open door. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:10.840 But there was a second part which was very tough. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.840 People expected you to become American. They expected you to 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.800 learn English, they expected you to go to work, they 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.320 expected you to be a neighbor, expected you to pay 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.600 the law. And so there's a great deal of socialization 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.960 that went into being an immigrant in the US. We 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.680 went into a cycle which which was captured in a 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:36.640 book called the Tragedy of American Compassion. UH, where starting 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.359 really in the big way with the great society, it 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.760 became inappropriate to suggest to people that they give up 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.240 whatever wherever they came from. UH, to say that the 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.919 habits and the culture you came from, aren't you know, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.040 So if you happen to come from a place which 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.200 engages in clinterectomy. Who are we to suggest as a 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.400 matter of women's rights, then maybe that's not a very 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.280 good habit, right. It would be like in the middle 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.560 of the nineteenth century when sutti was still practiced in 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.960 India and widows were expected to be burned on the 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:14.120 with their husbands. So the question becomes, can we find 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.680 a path back to work? And I voted for all this, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.120 And in nineteen eighty six we passed the Simpson Zoliac. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.360 We thought we were giving an amnesty to three hundred thousand, 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.640 turned out to be three million. And Reagan and his 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.680 diary says, I signed the bill because we were going 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.560 to get control of the border, and we're going to 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.840 have a work permit system so we could control immigration. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:42.960 And of course he got neither. So is it one 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:44.279 of the guys who voted for this thing? 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.080 Yeah, you were an advocate. I think what in nineteen 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.680 eighty five, right even before when it was in its 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.960 infancy in bill form. 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:58.440 So you know, I think you we're not going to 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.480 deport ten or twelve or fourteen million people. No, it's 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.360 not going to happen. We are going to deport most 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.680 of the criminals. And if you are here without having 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.159 yet been a criminal, and you become a criminal, we're 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.080 going to deport you and then once. I mean my 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.160 theory of all this, which may be wrong, but it's 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.040 part of what we did a journey to America is 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:23.080 to remind people that it's okay to be against illegal immigration, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.440 but you want to be passionately for legal immigration, and 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.000 you want to recognize that they're dividing lines. I'm very 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.080 concerned about the Dreamers, the people who came here two three, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.000 four years of age. Tally, they should be treated differently 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.440 than they're being treated right now. It's just it's wrong 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.960 to toss them in as though they're illegal in any 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:42.640 traditional sense. 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:44.760 So is it just they're just a political football, then 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:45.440 that's right. 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.280 Well, and most of them don't speak the language of 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.360 their native country. They grew up in America. For all 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.520 practical purposes, it is their native country. So we couldn't 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.960 have that debate until we got control of the border. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.240 My guess is that by sometime in twenty seven we 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.479 will begin to have a very healthy debate. People will 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.040 have calmed down and will now be into how do 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.240 we solve this problem as opposed as just being so rigid, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.200 and it may even happen starting in twenty six. I mean, 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.360 I thought that the speed I don't know what your 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.320 reaction was, but I thought the speed with which they 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.200 turned around the southern border was almost unbelievable. 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.000 Yeah, I mean directionally it had significantly declined in terms 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:33.560 of the total number of border crossings. But unquestionably, Yeah, 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.400 the acuity to which in essence is shut down is 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.480 rather remarkable considering where we were two years prior. But 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.880 clearly the message was delivered a little bit. In the 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:47.000 last nine months to a year, the Biden administration starting. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.400 To gradually shift, but then Tom came in and. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.920 It really no no doubt. I mean, look, rhetoric matters, 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.040 and I'm curious just from that perspect because I think 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.200 a lot of it was rhetorical. I mean, it was 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.760 substantive in terms of some of the moves that he's made, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.560 mostly rhetorical, I think in terms of the impacts even 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.600 occurring before in the executive orders when in effect, and 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.960 certainly no fundamental legislative shifts yet. But what are you 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.280 what about the rhetoric? What about sort of the pain 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.080 a lot of our diverse communities feel about the rhetoric 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.040 from the President himself. And you know, is it tactical 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.200 you say he supports legal immigration. We saw that debate 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:27.920 play out with a Bannon Musk frame, But that debate 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.840 is still pretty alive in the base of the mega 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.200 movement right anti immagrant legal too. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:38.240 Look, the challenge for Trump's critics on this line of 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:43.600 reasoning is that he got the highest percentage any Republicans 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.400 ever gotten in the Hispanic community. He got the largest 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.280 percentage of African American males of any Republican since Eisenhower, 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:56.000 you know, seventy years ago. Right, He's the first Republican 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:00.959 to get a majority of the Catholic vote. So an 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.160 awful lot of people who are first and second generation 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:09.640 legal immigrants who are as mad about illegal immigrants as 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.360 people whose relatives came over in seventeen hundred. I mean, 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.319 there's a sense of I paid my dues, I waited, 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.600 I obeyed the law on at frankly, I left these 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.160 people behind. I don't want a Venezuelan gang in my neighborhood. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.920 And while that's exaggerated, it's real enough, and particularly if 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.720 you look at the people you know who've been killed 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:38.280 or the people who've been raped. You don't need many symbols. 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.320 No country decide, you know, I don't. That's a risk. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:41.679 I don't know. 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.440 I just I miss. What I hate is how it's exploited. 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.960 And as we know, I mean, we all know the stats. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:52.880 I mean, native born are more likely to commit crimes 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:58.199 than forum born, legal or or without documentation. But you're right, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.200 I mean what you just said is Poe accurate. It 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.240 doesn't take that many examples. 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.480 And I suspect if you limited it down to MS 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:12.680 thirteen gang members be willing gang members. There are enough 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.760 examples there. You're right, you can earn a living off 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:15.960 of it. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.560 Look, I get your broader point, but I'm encouraged by 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.600 your core belief that Trump has the capacity, to your point, 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.679 to move if he feels that we've made the progress 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.400 on the border to a much more comprehensive conversation. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.160 You said publicly that we ought to really be thinking 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.360 about if you graduate in science or engineering, we give 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.840 you a green card with your graduation. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.480 Well that's been challenged by him eliminating all the foreign 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:50.440 students at Harvard. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.960 But we'll see that's now let me suggest to you 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:59.840 as somebody who's studied Trump a pharamount. There's a there's 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:04.240 a John Wayne film where it's really mad at somebody 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.240 picks up a chair, breaks it over their head and 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.920 his partner turns and says, God, you get really go crazy. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.880 As several foreign governments have learned. You take Trump head 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:19.640 on and he goes nuts, and he says, I'm going 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:22.720 to prove to you it's classic alpha male. I now 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.760 have to prove to you who's dominant. Well, Harvard decided 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.600 let's test this theory. Okay, So they now have Donald 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.679 Trump about four o'clock every morning figuring out what he 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.000 can do next. And he is going to beat on 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.040 them and beat on them. There's nothing to do with 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.080 the rest of the country. I hope not. Harvard has 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.000 decided to pick a head on fight. They're a big institution, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.000 They've got a ton of money, they have great prestige, 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.319 and we'll see whether or not they can. This is 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.880 a little bit like in I think it's nineteen o two, 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.400 they have a huge coal mine strike and Theodore Roosevelt 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.680 calls him the coal mine owners and says, this is 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.360 going to it's settled, and the coal mine. Unders say, well, 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.480 you don't understand, we own the coal mines. And Roosevelt says, 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.280 you don't understand. I am the President of United States, 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.440 and I will have the army take over all of 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:16.520 your minds. And they said, oh, well, let's talk. I mean, 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.719 if Harvard were semi smart, you know, this is a 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:25.000 losing fight, you know, if they win round one in court, 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:26.800 because he's going to be there for four years. They 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.439 were in one, win one round in court. The Justice 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.320 Department will be there with round two, three and four, 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.280 and he's not going to give up until they cawtew. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.640 It's just now he's not necessarily going to go and 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.199 pick a fight with you know, uh, the Ohio State University, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.640 partly because he likes their football team. As a general rule, 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.520 this is classically Trump behaves. You saw just do it 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.760 to the Europeans. The Europeans said, we don't want to talk. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.439 He said, fine, fifty percent tariff next Monday. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:55.640 And then he negotiates against them. 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.240 Oh facts, you do want to talk? 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.800 Yeah, well, and then he delayed is the I mean, 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.480 I by the you will you open this door? And 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.800 mister free trade, I remember you back in the day 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.840 I'm old enough to remember after and everything else, and 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:15.320 that was bipartisan. It was hardly new Gingridge speaker, Gingridge. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.880 It was celebrated in my party. So you you've evolved, 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.800 a lot of folks have not, just you know, including 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.760 by the way Democrats. I mean, the tariff policies were 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:30.000 advanced and uh and increased against China in particular during 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.160 the Biden administration, but not across the board, not with 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.400 this fits and starts, not negotiating against ourselves. Tell me, 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.479 you tell me, tell me that you find the approach 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.720 to tariff's under the Trump administration full hearty uh and 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:49.560 not necessarily productive at this stage? Or am I missing 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:55.880 this great negotiators capacity to deliver punches like a chess master. 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:57.840 Five months from now? Are year four? Well? 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.640 I think I think a couple of things. One I 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.480 would say, looking back, I was wrong. 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:07.080 Do you say that conveniently or do you I mean, no, I. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.679 Say that because I evolved over ten I'll give you 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.680 the best example. I really thought, as did most of 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.760 the people who studied it, that opening up China economically 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.640 was a great step towards a more open China. And 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:27.640 I totally misunderstood Dung Challpegs Southern tour where he gave 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.400 the speeches about markets and said, you know, I don't 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.720 care whether it's a black cat or a white cat, 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.480 as long as it catches the rat, and sounded like 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.800 he was really talking about openness. Well, a couple of 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:40.680 years ago, I did a book called Trump and China, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.800 and I went back and did a lot of research, 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.800 and I was frankly pretty embarrassed. I mean, Dung Shaopeng 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.480 was one of the twenty four people in Paris who 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.000 create the Chinese Commnist Party. He leaves Paris at the 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.720 end of World War One, goes to Moscow and spends 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:02.640 a year at Lenin University studying Marxism. Leninism. He is saying, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.600 and none of us caught this. We have to have 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.680 a market to create enough prosperity to strengthen the party's 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.960 grip on the country, because if people stay too poor, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.400 they're going to throw the party out. So I'm not 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.040 going to an open market so I can open up China. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.520 I'm going to open market so I can sustain the dictatorship. 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.320 And by the way, since it is a dictatorship and 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.760 since we are China, if I get to rip you off. 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.920 That's fine, now part of my education. After I left 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.720 the speakership, I was approached by a former Walmart president 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:37.800 who's going to do a deal in China, and he 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.480 thought having a former speaker would help given negotiating. So 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.360 my lawyer talked to the Chinese lawyers and after he 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.240 looked at the proposed contract, he said, let me get 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.360 this straight. You can you can define what his interest 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.320 is worth on any given day, and you can buy 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:56.120 it at your definition. They said, yeah, that's how we 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.600 do things. He's not with my client. So it's been 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.600 looking at that. And then in the European case, the Europeans, 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.240 and this is a genuine tragedy, and I think you 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.600 have to read JD. Vans's speeches in Paris and Munich 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.200 in this context. And again I'm a European historian. I've 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.000 lived in four European countries and I have an enormous 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:21.600 affection for Europe. Historically, the Europeans decided to go to 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:27.880 litigation and regulation rather than innovation, literally the exact opposite 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:28.800 of Silicon Valley. 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:29.760 That's interesting. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.840 In the long run, that's a losing game. So what 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.280 they have to do is they have to somehow tax 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:41.640 Amazon or Apple or Google or Meta or Microsoft because 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.520 they literally can't compete with them, and this isn't so 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.760 they rig the game in clever ways. And for a 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.760 very long time we operated within a model of somehow 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.440 trying to get to a balanced world where it would 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:58.640 also you know, the World Trade Organization would work. I 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.760 mean I was for China joining the WTO, and then 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.159 you realize after a while it just this current system 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.000 doesn't work. Now what Trump has done, which I don't 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.440 candidly don't think he's explained very well. Trump is a 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:17.000 reversion to the late nineteenth century Republican model, best articulated 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.000 by William McKinley, that we are going to have higher 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.600 tariff walls, we're going to have higher paid workers, we're 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.320 going to have huge prosperity, and in the end, because 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.879 we're the largest economy, we have and I mean he 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:33.600 loves this. Yeah, he knows in every negotiation, including China, 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.879 in the end, he is the bank they're going to 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.120 have to negotiate with it. Sure, And so he's now 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.800 going to have an exciting and enthusiastic six or eight months. 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.439 I tell all of my friends, do not look at 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.879 your stock until August, right. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.600 Or the lack of stock in the warehouse because of 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.359 all the indecision and the business chill. I mean, a 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.320 lot of people that aren't going to make it five months. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.920 That's my fear and disproportionate number out here in America's 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.800 largest economy, California, with all that goods movement, that dock 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.600 workers and truckers, and obviously the small business supply chains. 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.760 I mean, it's being felt. It's pretty profound. I hope 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.239 there's an endgame here, but time is not on the 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.480 side of a lot of these small entrepreneurs. 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.080 I think that's right. Look, there's gonna be a lot 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.119 of floundering around, and ultimately we may be at a 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.000 better future, but the interim is going to be I 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.119 tell people, this is not a beer party on a 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:32.679 houseboat on a quiet lake. This is newing in the 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.159 rapids of a wild river. And that's just a fact. 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.359 All right, Let's go back, just briefly, because I'd be 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.760 remiss if we didn't talk about it. So I here's 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.880 this is how I spent my Memorial Day. I somehow 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.399 landed on a New Hampshire town hall that you and 0:18:55.520 --> 0:19:00.680 President Clinton conducted together. It was shockingly civil tuned in 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.520 because I was expecting the opposite, and the fact that 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.199 the President of the United States, the Speaker of the 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:12.000 House of Representatives, at the peak of their differences, engaged 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.640 in a civil conversation. It makes me long for those 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:20.080 days or wait or not, because my reflection was one 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:27.000 of critique and constant you know, just you know, confrontation, victriol, 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.639 government shutdowns. So which was it? What was your relationship like? 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.240 Do you remember that day in New Hampshire? What the 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.119 hell were you two thinking? And what's happened to our 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.480 country since? And how how much do you feel, mister 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:48.200 speaker in the lunch conversation responsible for the first some 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.399 of that sort of toxicity as some have described in 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.679 our politics as a relations to the relationship that you 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.840 had with our party, our party with you and the 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.199 contract with American Oh. 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.639 Wellther you just managed to ask about three different questions. 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:06.560 I did, Yes. 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:11.080 So off, Gwen and I had a I think remarkably 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.920 good personal relationship. We were about the same age group, 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.119 We're both we're both inherently graduate students. We like to 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.280 sit around and shoot the breeze about occasionally late at night. 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.080 I go down and have a drink with him, and 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:26.760 we just bsked. I mean it was just you know, 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.080 as you know, he is one of the great Yes, 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.359 it's in American history. I mean all that does relax 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.159 and let him roll for a while. And so in 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.200 that sense, what happened was which was, which was? And 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.160 I wrote a book on it called March to the Majority. 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.240 We spent sixteen years growing on Majority. All of it's 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:51.480 standing on Reagan's shoulders. The contract is entirely Reagan, but 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.720 when we won, because we had based everything we were 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.199 doing on the American people, So every single item in 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.879 the contract is seventy percent or better. There's a big 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.800 fight in the White House in June of ninety five 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:10.160 and Reagan's staff, I mean Carter Clinton's staff says, you've 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.320 got to fight Gingrich. You know, you owe it to 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.080 the to the party. And Clinton, Clinton, who had been 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.679 beaten in nineteen eighty for reelection and knew that there 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:21.200 wasn't fun, said to them, I do that. I want 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:25.439 to lose. I'm not going to fight Gingrich. I'm going 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.040 to protect the things that I have to protect, and 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:28.720 I'm going to take shots I didn't want to can 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:30.879 but I want to work with him because if I 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.119 work with him, I'll probably get reelected, and I like 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.640 being in the White House. And it was a huge braw. 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.239 I mean I remember one point, Leon Panetta. We were 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.400 in a negotiating session and Panetta was screaming at him 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.600 and saying, you can't give that away. We had Democrats 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.080 who lost their seats because they voted for that, and 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:49.639 Clinton's long, yeah, but I don't want to lose my seat, 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:52.120 you know, And then he turned to me and said, 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:56.280 I guess I can't do that one. This may surprise you. 0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:00.080 We negotiated for thirty five days, face to face. We 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:00.440 produced this. 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:02.720 I mean literally the two of you in the room, 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:04.440 not outsourcing. 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.399 Staff other people around, but the two us sitting across 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:10.240 the table for thirty five days, and we produced the 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:14.240 only four balanced budgets in a century. And we did 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.360 it because we listened to each other and we talk 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.199 with each other. Now, I was a harsh partisan for 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.800 a reason you'll understand perfectly. I mean it's what you 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.800 have not You haven't really had the kind of quality 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.400 of opposition you should have in California that Methought goes 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.640 out and spends sixteen years and gradually becomes the majority, 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.120 which is tragic. It's not good for the state. 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:37.200 Yeah, I hear you again. I mean I get that 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:41.200