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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Norry with you. We're with Jack car former Navy seal

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Speaker 1: of course and author of a number of books, including

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Speaker 1: the recently released one, The Devil's Hand. In that book,

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Speaker 1: you talk about Marburg variant you, which is a strain

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Speaker 1: of virus strain kind of close to COVID. Jack, Well,

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Speaker 1: it isn't that we're all hyper sensitive to it as

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Speaker 1: I was when COVID hit, because I was deep into

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Speaker 1: the research for my fourth novel, and the basis of

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Speaker 1: that novel really is what the enemies learned by watching

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Speaker 1: us over the last twenty years at war. Not just

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Speaker 1: these last twenty years, but the previous as well for

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Speaker 1: some of the older characters, so from nineteen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: to two thousand and one, which was a distinctly different

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Speaker 1: paradigm when we're talking about terrorism than was two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one up to today. But the catalyst that moves

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Speaker 1: the plot forward is a bioweapon. So I went deep

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Speaker 1: into bioweapon research, particularly from World War Two up to today.

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Speaker 1: So did the Japanese do in World War two, who

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Speaker 1: did they use their bioweapons against. What happened to that

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Speaker 1: data and that research after the war? Same thing with Germany,

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Speaker 1: And the answer is it informed the bioweapons program of

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Speaker 1: the then Soviet Union and the United States. So I

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Speaker 1: also checked into what the conventions that we signed in

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Speaker 1: the seventies, what did those mean? And I went deep

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Speaker 1: on those and found out that there's something called a

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Speaker 1: biodefense weapon that even if you're a signatory to these conventions,

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Speaker 1: that you can still develop. Well, if you're going to

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Speaker 1: develop a biodefense weapon, it means you need to also

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Speaker 1: develop a weapon that you're defending against. So there's everything's

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Speaker 1: based on the honor system when we're talking about international

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Speaker 1: bioweapons treaties and there's no one checking anything. So and

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Speaker 1: there's a provision to develop these biodefense weapons. So it's

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Speaker 1: I was hypersensitive when COVID hit and now, of course

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Speaker 1: we're all quite familiar with what happens or what our

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Speaker 1: country decided to do. A lot of the world decided

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Speaker 1: to do when we were hit at this virus that

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Speaker 1: has the mortality rate that it does. So when when

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Speaker 1: I was writing about Marlborough vertu, the mortality rate is

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Speaker 1: quite higher, So imagine what we would do something like that.

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Speaker 1: Is this a playbook for terrorists? Are they looking at

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Speaker 1: this right now? They're definitely looking at this, just like

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Speaker 1: they're looking at They're looking at our response to COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 1: They're looking at our response to a summer of civil

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Speaker 1: unrest that continues today. They're looking at a very contentious

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Speaker 1: political season and election cycle, and they're looking for any

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Speaker 1: way to take advantage, in any way to divide us

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Speaker 1: against one another. And so this is actually what a

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Speaker 1: problem that I ran into about October November. So I

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Speaker 1: was finishing the novel because for over a year I

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Speaker 1: had looked at our country from the enemy's shoes. So

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Speaker 1: if I was Russia, if I was China, if I

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Speaker 1: was a RAN, if I was North Korea, if I

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Speaker 1: was a super empowered individual or a terrorist organization, what

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Speaker 1: would I have learned and what would I be learning

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Speaker 1: during this very pivotal year of twenty twenty. And of course,

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Speaker 1: when I outlined the book in August of twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what a pivotal year twenty twenty was

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Speaker 1: going to be. So when I got October November, I thought, Wow,

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Speaker 1: if I was the enemy, I would probably just take

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Speaker 1: a step back and watch, because we're doing a pretty

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Speaker 1: good job of tearing ourselves apart from the inside right now.

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Speaker 1: And so I had to figure away I wad to

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Speaker 1: write myself out of that and for purposes of the story,

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Speaker 1: make it necessary for the enemy to strike. Now. COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen is real, Jack, But could it be a test

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Speaker 1: where governments are just trying to watch how people handle

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Speaker 1: themselves worldwide? Well, it's certainly a test whether or not

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Speaker 1: it was that was the intent in the beginning or

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Speaker 1: not that I don't know that, but but of course

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Speaker 1: when anything happens, we're trying to adapt to the enemy.

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Speaker 1: The enemy is trying to adapt to us. They generally

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Speaker 1: do it a little better than we do because they're

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Speaker 1: not these gigantic bureaucracies like we are. They're a little

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Speaker 1: more agile than we are generally, So regardless of or

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Speaker 1: COVID came from, they're certainly learning from it, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: That is one certainty. All those countries I just mentioned

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Speaker 1: terrorist organizations, that's what they do is they look at us,

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Speaker 1: they watch, and they figure out how to exploit our weaknesses,

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Speaker 1: and they're certainly doing that when it comes to COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: Desert Storm nineteen ninety one, where we went into Iraq

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Speaker 1: because Saddam Hussein went into Kuwait and made a very

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Speaker 1: fatal mistake and out he went. But then we go

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Speaker 1: back into Iraq in two thousand and three to finish

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Speaker 1: his job and get him out. Shouldn't we have gone

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Speaker 1: back in? Now you were there, what did you think, Well,

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Speaker 1: hindsight's twenty twenty obviously yea, And we can look back

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Speaker 1: and say, oh, maybe we shouldn't have done that. Maybe

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Speaker 1: the Middle East was actually more stable with certain strongmen

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Speaker 1: in power than it is with the chaos that we

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Speaker 1: leave in our wake certain times. But one thing that

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Speaker 1: we didn't do that we should have done, and that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with twenty twenty hindsight, is

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Speaker 1: doing that requisite study, putting that time, energy and effort

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Speaker 1: into studying the problems set at hand. And we had

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Speaker 1: leaders that made egregious strategic decisions, namely disbanding the Iraqi

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Speaker 1: Army and depathification, so essentially creating an insurgency that sucked

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Speaker 1: us in for well really through today in the region

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Speaker 1: in general. But we created that insurgency by essentially putting

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Speaker 1: the army out of business, and then anybody that had

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Speaker 1: a job from taking out the garbage to running the

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Speaker 1: power grid was a Baptist and now they couldn't go

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Speaker 1: to work. So we decided we would build up a

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Speaker 1: new army and figure out how to keep infrastructure going,

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Speaker 1: how to keep the lights on, how to build up

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Speaker 1: a new government more friendly to us interests, all at

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Speaker 1: the same time. And all of that was unnecessary. And

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Speaker 1: all it took was our strategic level leaders studying the

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Speaker 1: past and understanding the nature of the conflict to which

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Speaker 1: we were going to be engaged and make better statistic

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Speaker 1: decisions for us at the tactical I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: Can you clear up a rumor too. One of the

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Speaker 1: things I had heard about why we're still in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: and this is a strange, wild rumor, is that we've

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Speaker 1: got some of our military guarding the poppy fields in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: poppy being used for heroine. I guess, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know about that. I mean, there are certainly poppy fields,

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Speaker 1: and there are certainly warlords, and there are certainly different

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Speaker 1: alliances with different tribes, and all the rest of that

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Speaker 1: that gets very gray, of course, but I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's something as nefarious as us actually guarding them. Now,

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Speaker 1: did we actually guard them from warring tribes as part

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Speaker 1: of some or warlords as part of some sort of

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Speaker 1: agreements here and there, that sort of thing. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there were instances where we were allied with certain warlords

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Speaker 1: over there that were involved in the poppy trade, And

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Speaker 1: if you look deep enough, there would probably be instances

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Speaker 1: where it could be seen as a guy of guarding

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Speaker 1: poppy fields. But I don't think it's like, it's not

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Speaker 1: certainly not the main effort if we're if we're talking

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Speaker 1: about in those terms, Well what Jack Carr's website, official

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Speaker 1: jackcard dot com is linked up at Coast to coastdam

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Speaker 1: dot com and his latest book is called The Devil

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Speaker 1: Sand tell us about the book. Yeah, so this one

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Speaker 1: was something I wanted to write. So each one is

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Speaker 1: a distinctly different theme. The first one's really all about

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Speaker 1: revenge without constraint. But there's a couple different levels where

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Speaker 1: you can read it at and one of those is

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Speaker 1: a veteran who essentially becomes the terrorist, he becomes the

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Speaker 1: insurgent that he's been fighting for the last sixteen when

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Speaker 1: I wrote it, now twenty years at war, or it's

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Speaker 1: about a veteran that brings those wars from Iraq and

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan to the front doors of people who have been

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Speaker 1: sending young men and women to their deaths now for

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Speaker 1: twenty years. So that's one way, then, true believer of

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Speaker 1: the second one is really a journey of redemption. And

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Speaker 1: the third one, Savage Son, explores the dark side of

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Speaker 1: man through the dynamic of hunter and hunted. And this

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Speaker 1: fourth one, the Devil's Hand, is something I thought about

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Speaker 1: while I was in uniform the seal, and I continue

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Speaker 1: to think about as an author and a citizen today,

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Speaker 1: and that's, hey, what is the enemy enemy learning? What

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Speaker 1: if I was the enemy, what would I have learned

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Speaker 1: by watching us on the field of battle for the

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Speaker 1: last twenty years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, other hot spots

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Speaker 1: around the world, And what would I have incorporated into

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Speaker 1: my battle plans? And then, of course, as I started writing,

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Speaker 1: it became much more timely with twenties twenty, and they

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Speaker 1: learned a lot about us during this last year, and

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Speaker 1: those lessons are certainly getting incorporated into these future battle plans.

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Speaker 1: So that's the that's the underlying theme and that catalyst

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Speaker 1: the moves of the platforward is is a bioweapon. And

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Speaker 1: my protagonist, James Reese is drawn into this, UH is

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Speaker 1: drawn drawn into the plot going after some of those

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Speaker 1: people who may have helped facilitate nine to eleven. So

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Speaker 1: it's it was something I've been thinking about for a

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Speaker 1: long time. You were a Navy seal sniper. Did you

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Speaker 1: know the late Chris Kyle. We didn't know each other personally,

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Speaker 1: I know, I didn't know, but he took over for

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Speaker 1: us in UH in Iraq in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: I was already im bagged out of the time working

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Speaker 1: on another special project there, so we didn't physically froth paths.

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Speaker 1: But they took over for us in Iraq when we

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Speaker 1: headed back in two thousand and six, but never got

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Speaker 1: never had the honor of medium. Did he have a

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Speaker 1: reputation at the time, I mean, did ger all know

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Speaker 1: his name? Not yet? He was about to establish that though. Okay, okay, fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Now what's going on with al Qaida today? I mean,

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Speaker 1: we talked about Alzar here he is hiding somewhere or

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Speaker 1: running the show, but we don't hear much about it. No,

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Speaker 1: iis really took the headlines over the last decade, really

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Speaker 1: very much more a grook going on the offensive and

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Speaker 1: obviously using social media much more to their advantage to

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Speaker 1: build up recruits. I get a lot of funds going.

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Speaker 1: So iis really kind of took over the limelight, I

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Speaker 1: would say, but al Qaida is certainly still out there.

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Speaker 1: In the connections between al Qaida in Iran or really

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Speaker 1: what fascinated me as I did a lot of the

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Speaker 1: research for this novel because that Sunni Shia divide that

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Speaker 1: you hear the experts on television talk about so often

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Speaker 1: might not really be as deep of a divide as

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Speaker 1: we think. And for those of us who were in

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Speaker 1: Iraq in two thousand and six, we certainly saw it.

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Speaker 1: You know, we saw this, uh, the sectarian violence, that

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Speaker 1: civil war that had been simmering full simmering for quite

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Speaker 1: some time, but in the more more modern times really

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Speaker 1: kicked off in Iraq with that Golden Moss bombing in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six. Soh so we did see it.

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Speaker 1: But there is uh there's also something to be said

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Speaker 1: for alliances that helped it helped to two different distinct groups.

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Speaker 1: So al Qaida in Sudan in the nineties had these

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Speaker 1: ties to Hezbollah to Iran that that you wouldn't really

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Speaker 1: expect Sunni Shia organizations to have. So I got to

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Speaker 1: go deep in on that, and al Qaida sort is

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Speaker 1: out there. And even with a recent assassination that's been

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Speaker 1: attributed to Israel, we have we have al Qaeda affiliated

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Speaker 1: people in Iran taken off the board. So it's uh,

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Speaker 1: there are connections there, There's no doubt about that. And

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Speaker 1: my intuitive gut jack tells me even that the next

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Speaker 1: hotspot could very well be with the Iranians. What do

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Speaker 1: you think. I mean, we've been talking about that for

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Speaker 1: as long with my whole twenty years in the military.

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Speaker 1: Well before that, of course in nineteen seventy nine. We

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Speaker 1: have some history there obviously with the Iran hostage crisis

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Speaker 1: Desert One, and what they've learned over those years of

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Speaker 1: those really in the early years in the eighties is

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Speaker 1: that proxies work. And they've been using proxy forces against

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Speaker 1: US ull look at the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut.

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Speaker 1: But they learned that proxies work. So that's made it

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Speaker 1: very difficult to go after them militarily. Of course, we've

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Speaker 1: had sanctions and and done other things against Iran, but

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Speaker 1: but they've managed to avoid us going in there militarily

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Speaker 1: or having a direct military confrontation, and that's because of

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Speaker 1: their successful use of proxies. You think Iran might have

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Speaker 1: had something to do at nine to eleven, don't you, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly. There's the line in the nine to eleven

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Speaker 1: Commission report, which I studied the whole went through the

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Speaker 1: whole book again in doing the research for this novel,

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Speaker 1: and there's a sentence in there that says that they

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Speaker 1: at nine eleven Commission report strongly recommends that we look

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Speaker 1: into an Iranian and with Iranian involvement in nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: So so it says they couldn't point to anything in

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Speaker 1: that report, but they recommended we look into it. And

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Speaker 1: that's really the end of it. There's nothing else. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how much we actually did, how much we

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Speaker 1: took their their advice or their recommendation from that report,

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Speaker 1: but they certainly saw something and said we should look

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Speaker 1: into it further, and officially I don't know what we

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Speaker 1: actually did, how fall we went on that path. The

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Speaker 1: Devil's Hand by Jack Carr. Is available on Amazon dot com.

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Speaker 1: Has it hit the bookstores? Set? Jack? It has it? Has?

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Speaker 1: It is available anywhere books are sold. It is out

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Speaker 1: there in ebook, audiobook, and hardcover. What's it like for

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Speaker 1: you to look at your book see your name on it?

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Speaker 1: It's pretty crazy. It's in Times Square right now, up

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Speaker 1: on the big big billboard, and it's of course to

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Speaker 1: be out on set watching them film the series out here.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty pretty surreal. But it's something I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do my whole life. And I did all that research

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Speaker 1: growing up, all that reading growing up, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think I could have I don't think I could have

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Speaker 1: a better foundation from which to build. How long are

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Speaker 1: you going to be out in Los Angeles? I'd go

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Speaker 1: back and forth. So we live up in the mountains

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Speaker 1: in Park City, so I go back and forth. Each

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Speaker 1: each episode has a different director, so I try to

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Speaker 1: make it out here for each episode so I can

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Speaker 1: thank each individual director for taking the time to devote

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Speaker 1: to this project. I'm back out there in another week

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Speaker 1: plus for an extended day, so while I'll try to

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Speaker 1: track you down, we can get perfect that might be here.

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Speaker 1: Who knows, that'll be fun that'll be fun. And when

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Speaker 1: that and when the movie comes out of the terminal list,

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Speaker 1: let's try to get you and Chris Pratt on for

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Speaker 1: a little bit. That would be fun. That would be fun.

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Speaker 1: I'll be loudly. I'll be trying to do everything I

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Speaker 1: possibly can with him to help help get the word out.

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Speaker 1: How did you? How did you get the book option

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Speaker 1: for the movie and now it's turned in and now

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Speaker 1: it's turned into this mini series. Yeah, it's interesting. So

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Speaker 1: I thought of Chris Pratt as I was writing it.

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Speaker 1: He's the only person I wanted to play the role

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Speaker 1: of my protagonist, Navy Seal sniper James Reese. And I

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Speaker 1: thought of Antoine Fouquio directing it, who directed the first

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Speaker 1: episode and as an executive producer, which is an amazing,

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Speaker 1: amazing guy. But I got a call out of the

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Speaker 1: blue in November of twenty seventeen, a few months before

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Speaker 1: the book came out, and it was from old seal

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Speaker 1: buddy of mine I hadn't talked to in a few years,

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Speaker 1: and he said, Hey, I always wanted to thank you

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Speaker 1: for something you did for me in the seal teams,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't really remember what it was. But he said,

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Speaker 1: you helped me with transition. You introduced me to people

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Speaker 1: in the private sector. I sat me down your office,

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Speaker 1: talked about transition, and no one else did that for me.

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Speaker 1: And I'll never I've never forgotten in Boisorn to thank you,

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Speaker 1: and I said, no problem. And he said I heard

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Speaker 1: you have a book coming out and I said, yes,

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Speaker 1: coming out a few months. I have a rough draft

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Speaker 1: I can send you and he said, yeah, I'd like that,

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Speaker 1: but I'd like to give it to a friend of mine.

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Speaker 1: And I said, no problem. Who's that And he said,

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Speaker 1: Chris Pratt. Chris read it in December of twenty seventeen

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Speaker 1: and optioned it the first week in January. And he's

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Speaker 1: doing this with his own production company now too, isn't

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Speaker 1: he right? That's right, he's all in on it, and

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Speaker 1: he is doing an incredible job. Pretty pretty good for

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Speaker 1: a guy who was living in his van. Huh. Not bad,

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Speaker 1: not bad. And he's a he's a great American too.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more