Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome fact to another episode of Real Time Crime.
Speaker 1: I'm your host b Lamar, and I have with me
Speaker 1: my good friend. Oh my goodness, we're really progressing. This
Speaker 1: is nice. Well, I mean, Adam and I did FaceTime
Speaker 1: you on fourth of July when we were on the
Speaker 1: paddle a swan paddle boat on a lake, which has
Speaker 1: jumped up to the top of the list of some
Speaker 1: of my favorite memories and experiences to be uh at
Speaker 1: a Fourth of July party and get a FaceTime like
Speaker 1: huh and and turn it on and see the two
Speaker 1: of you on a giant swan paddle voting around the pond.
Speaker 1: Was it was the surprise I never knew I wanted.
Speaker 1: I'm very sad that that's one of your top favorite memories.
Speaker 1: But also, you know, the pond is symbolic of Adam
Speaker 1: living across the pond, so and how when you see
Speaker 1: each other it's like lying on a swan with a
Speaker 1: lot of pedal just so everyone knows he's not here
Speaker 1: right now. He's hiding in my wall. But that'll be
Speaker 1: interesting to you later when we get to our main story,
Speaker 1: which is about frogging with p Like when you say
Speaker 1: you're like fat with the pH. So not a real frog. No, no,
Speaker 1: not a real frog. It's someone who hides in the
Speaker 1: walls of your home or in the attic or in
Speaker 1: the basement or anywhere in your home and stocks you
Speaker 1: and watches you. But more on that later because that
Speaker 1: is the story for our second half of the episode today.
Speaker 1: And we have a special guest, Jessica Everleth, who is
Speaker 1: the EP on this new show called frogg Gang, which
Speaker 1: will be out on Lifetime. You guys, I am. I
Speaker 1: saw the screener and I'm disturbed. Disturbed. You gotta listen
Speaker 1: to this interview. The show is uh so cringe worthy
Speaker 1: in the way that you just you literally are so
Speaker 1: afraid to move when you're watching it. I literally sat
Speaker 1: there clutching my blanket, listening to every possible noise I
Speaker 1: could ever happen and trying to justify what it could be.
Speaker 1: And then very scaredly, took a flashlight and checked every
Speaker 1: nooking coronia of my house like a psycho. And did
Speaker 1: you call Adam afterward and telling you we're scared? I said,
Speaker 1: I need you to come all the way back to
Speaker 1: l A. I'm scared, alright. But before we get to
Speaker 1: that story. Let's get to our hot topics, shall we. Alright, alright,
Speaker 1: first hot topic for today. Oh man, this is one
Speaker 1: of those things where it's like, we gotta get Teddy's
Speaker 1: take on this. Jen Shaw Real Housewives of Salt Lake
Speaker 1: City cast member, please guilty to telemarketing fraud. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: Jennifer Shaw played guilty Monday to defrauding hundreds of victims,
Speaker 1: including some elderly, in a year's long telemarketing scheme. She
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.
Speaker 1: According to a pre argument. Federal sentencing guidelines range eleven
Speaker 1: to fourteen years. Is in prison, although I'm sure she'll
Speaker 1: go in the Martha Stewart route, which is just a
Speaker 1: little ankle bracelet. As part of a plea argument, Sara
Speaker 1: will pay six point five mill and forfeiture and up
Speaker 1: to nine point five mill and restitution. She was arrested
Speaker 1: in one while Bravo was filming the second season of
Speaker 1: the show, and she consistently professed her innocence, going as
Speaker 1: far as to stay in as tagline for the show
Speaker 1: that said, the only thing I'm guilty of is being
Speaker 1: Shaw Amazing and saying that is you're guilty enough that
Speaker 1: that allowment I would lock her up. You're guilty of
Speaker 1: being annoying? Who who was like, Yeah, that's a great tagline.
Speaker 1: Her guilty plea came as she was set to go
Speaker 1: to trial in federal court in Manhattan. They said that
Speaker 1: since Shaw and others sold so called quote unquote business
Speaker 1: services to alleged victims, including website design services to some
Speaker 1: elderly individuals who didn't even own computers, I mean, how
Speaker 1: much of a pos do you gotta be? Shaw and
Speaker 1: others also identified and sold as leads the names of
Speaker 1: individuals who they knew would be defrauded by others. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is just trash human behavior. Prosecutor said. Shaw supervised
Speaker 1: the salespeople who lied directly to the victims of the scheme.
Speaker 1: She sought to hide her role in the fraud by
Speaker 1: using encrypted messaging apps, placing companies in the name of
Speaker 1: family and others, and setting up an offshore bank account
Speaker 1: and business operations in Kosovo. She also underreported her income
Speaker 1: on tax returns for several years. Prosecutors say Shaw spent
Speaker 1: the proceeds from the fraud on her extravagant lifestyle. As
Speaker 1: we trade on the reality show sentencing in the cases
Speaker 1: scheduled for November, Shaw told the judge, I knew this
Speaker 1: was wrong. I know many people were harmed names so sorry,
Speaker 1: Oh I know. I feel so badly for her, Like
Speaker 1: she just got caught up and she denied it for years, right,
Speaker 1: said she had nothing to do with it, and she
Speaker 1: finally came clean. And it's not because she turned things
Speaker 1: around and she realized is the error of ever wig
Speaker 1: she did. What people do they got busted, they're facing something,
Speaker 1: you know, a punishment, and they're gonna say, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I've realized that was wrong and I don't
Speaker 1: know what happened, and blah blah blah, you did it,
Speaker 1: live with it. I mean. That's the other thing too,
Speaker 1: is that I wonder if it was like a Chicken
Speaker 1: or the egg situation where she had to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to make more money to be more attractive
Speaker 1: for the show, or if she was always going to
Speaker 1: do this sort of like horrible behavior, if this is
Speaker 1: who she is innately as a person, And I mean
Speaker 1: I guess it did because since she's been yeah, so
Speaker 1: never mind, I take that back. It's been since that
Speaker 1: she's been scamming old people without computers for website services
Speaker 1: and then selling their personal information. So yeah, that's way
Speaker 1: before the show. Yeah, yeah, she's a bad person. And
Speaker 1: then somehow she ended up getting fame for something else
Speaker 1: and luckily, you know, in a in a karmic way.
Speaker 1: Season two, she gets arrested, like the whole thing comes
Speaker 1: crashing down. Potentially that's what she wanted, was fame in
Speaker 1: the set and then and then it you know, she
Speaker 1: lost it all because she made stupid I don't want
Speaker 1: to call the mistakes because she was aware of what
Speaker 1: she was doing. I feel like there's so much crime
Speaker 1: involved with the reality shows. There's always something happening, and
Speaker 1: it's very confusing. It's like, what's up with the background
Speaker 1: checks on these people? Or do they have to check
Speaker 1: the income statements to make sure that you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean it's so interesting. I mean I
Speaker 1: also think that she pled guilty because she knew that
Speaker 1: she was going to get caught. Yeah. Probably, But the
Speaker 1: thing is, it's it's real housewives, right, and this is
Speaker 1: apparently what some of them are doing. There's a housewives
Speaker 1: in my opinion, I mean that's true, but he's a
Speaker 1: job just kidding. Well, I mean, and I know a
Speaker 1: lot of people want to go to like, I have
Speaker 1: zero tolerance for taking advantage of senior citizens kids. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think you should take advantage of anybody or
Speaker 1: con them or scammed them. But that's the works. It's
Speaker 1: the easy targets, and it's the people that can't defend themselves.
Speaker 1: And if you morally are okay with that, then you're
Speaker 1: you're sicker than just that, you know, which is weird
Speaker 1: to say, than a normal criminal. But yeah, I also
Speaker 1: think that being on the reality show is probably the
Speaker 1: thing that did her in because it brought so much
Speaker 1: attention to her finances. I think if she had never
Speaker 1: been on the reality show, she might not have been
Speaker 1: caught because who no one knew who she was. That's
Speaker 1: a good point. That's just my take, that's my heart's take. No,
Speaker 1: it makes sense. And you know what good good it's
Speaker 1: it's often it right, It's it's people being greedy, are
Speaker 1: always wanting more in something that ends up being their downfall.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened here. I hear that, like
Speaker 1: I want Adam to get a visa or a green
Speaker 1: card and just him not being here is not good enough.
Speaker 1: I want more. I just wanted to make this about
Speaker 1: me somehow. Okay, but I'll be your downfall, That'll be
Speaker 1: your uplifting. I'm very excited for us, for us, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for all three of us together, when we live in
Speaker 1: a home together. I actually have some I don't I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna take about now. I have blueprints for a
Speaker 1: swan boat that fits three my dream. I didn't know
Speaker 1: I needed this until now. Also, I just want to say,
Speaker 1: you know, text tech company sells our our personal information
Speaker 1: all the time, our email addresses, our phone numbers or addresses.
Speaker 1: All this information is getting shared all the time, and
Speaker 1: they're always constant breaches or social scurity numbers getting stolen.
Speaker 1: This is getting stolen. It's like at this point when
Speaker 1: I see that there's been my email has been you know,
Speaker 1: oh you're part of a breach, I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 1: even changed my email address. Like find whatever you need?
Speaker 1: What do you I have nothing to hide? Number one,
Speaker 1: number two, Like there's nothing to get from there. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be like scripts that never made it right.
Speaker 1: And and trust me, you cannot sell those I'll know.
Speaker 1: I'll see your ass and you know, I think it's
Speaker 1: I think what she did is different because what she
Speaker 1: did was prey on these people first, and then once
Speaker 1: she realized that they were kind of gold standard for
Speaker 1: skin ming, gave the information to other people so that
Speaker 1: they could continue to be scammed. Right. Uh. And I
Speaker 1: know I come across as like a high and mighty here, like, oh,
Speaker 1: don't do this. So I'll be honest, though, if you
Speaker 1: want to know what's really going on in my head
Speaker 1: right now, I'm fascinated by the fact that she sold
Speaker 1: website designed to people who didn't have computers, Like, how
Speaker 1: does that conversation go? No, She's an amazing saleswoman and honestly,
Speaker 1: I'd like to take a course from her. This feels
Speaker 1: like a Jordan Bell for a situation where people are like, well,
Speaker 1: you did something shitty, but how do we make money? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it's she's a good saleswoman. I'm not, again
Speaker 1: not condoning it, but I'm fascinated by it. Fascinated fascinated.
Speaker 1: I mean that's like selling milk at a hardware store.
Speaker 1: How did she do that? Alright, So just moving on
Speaker 1: to the next story, speaking of stealing from people among
Speaker 1: her stole sixty dollar role X Pistol whipped a woman
Speaker 1: outside California Market. And look, of course it's an armed robber.
Speaker 1: It's California, baby, We're a crime country now. So there's
Speaker 1: the police are still searching for two suspects who stole
Speaker 1: man sixt k gold rolex and pistol whipped his female
Speaker 1: companion outside a grocery store on Monday. K ABC TV
Speaker 1: captured the victims kneeling behind their vehicle and a parking
Speaker 1: lot outside Ranch Market and Rolling Heights, which is near
Speaker 1: l A on Saturday afternoon, and the woman screaming during
Speaker 1: the frightening assault. Obviously she's pistol whipped. The pair were
Speaker 1: set upon as they loaded groceries into their car. One
Speaker 1: of the suspects, Pisto whipped the guy, knocking him to
Speaker 1: the ground while robbing him of his luxury. We watch
Speaker 1: the second attast attacker then assaulted the woman with his
Speaker 1: weapon and the suspects apparently we're wearing black hoodies and
Speaker 1: gray sweatpants, so just any boy in l A. And
Speaker 1: they took off in a white dog challenger. I just
Speaker 1: gotta say, don't park next to challengers. Anyone who's got
Speaker 1: a Dodge challenger is looking for trouble that car. The
Speaker 1: accelerator goes too fast for normal people. It just you
Speaker 1: put your foot on and it's a hundred miles per
Speaker 1: hour and you were just at zero. So if you're
Speaker 1: partner next to a challenger, just letting you know this
Speaker 1: could be your fault. I'm not saying they were partners
Speaker 1: to a challenger. I'm just saying, look out in the future,
Speaker 1: I think twice before you part next to a challenger.
Speaker 1: That's our public safety tip, thank you. And also, they
Speaker 1: had paper license plates. I just I like the idea
Speaker 1: of it being like a paper plate, like a little
Speaker 1: an it. Well, I'll give California this because not too
Speaker 1: long ago we didn't have those. People would just have
Speaker 1: a dealer sticker or whatever. There was no license plate,
Speaker 1: and so people would not change their plates forever, so
Speaker 1: it was impossible to track those cars. Well, the other
Speaker 1: thing is that these robbers were between twenty and thirty,
Speaker 1: and they both had semi automatic guns. Look, I just
Speaker 1: think we I understand the right to bear arms. However,
Speaker 1: I don't think any civilian needs a semi automatic weapon.
Speaker 1: I'm against guns, but I just say, how are civilians
Speaker 1: and semi automatic weapons. That leads me to believe that
Speaker 1: they're either involved with the military, or involved with a
Speaker 1: huge gang or in some sort of like big crime. Right,
Speaker 1: I mean, like, how do you get semi automatic guns?
Speaker 1: I don't know, And like you said, there's no reason
Speaker 1: to have those. But when you look back and the
Speaker 1: fact that these guys just got pistol whipped, which means
Speaker 1: they were hit with the gun, right, I mean, this
Speaker 1: could have been way worse. Yeah, I mean, look, I
Speaker 1: think it's unfair to blame the people for wearing a
Speaker 1: gold Rolex. You're allowed to be a human being. Those
Speaker 1: things exist so that you can wear them. You should
Speaker 1: be able to go into public and not be assaulted
Speaker 1: and robbed. I don't think it's his fault. It's not
Speaker 1: his fault, but you if you're going, if you choose
Speaker 1: to do that, you are putting yourself more at risk
Speaker 1: than not. So I'm not saying you're inviting it. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that you should. It's your fault investination, but
Speaker 1: you have to be aware of the fact that if
Speaker 1: you're doing that, you I am someone that's I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm always alert on that alerted on stuff from
Speaker 1: on high alert. I should say, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's from watching a bunch of stuff or reading stories
Speaker 1: all the time. So I feel like I always know something.
Speaker 1: When I walk into a restaurant, I scanned the room
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Okay, that person is that or it's
Speaker 1: not a it's not like a profile thing. But I'm
Speaker 1: just look around to seat to know the situation. And
Speaker 1: I feel like if I were to be wearing a
Speaker 1: six dollar watch, which I would never do, I feel
Speaker 1: like I would be constantly like looking around because I
Speaker 1: would I would be on edge knowing that this is
Speaker 1: out there flashing. Okay, I'm gonna be honest. We recorded
Speaker 1: the second half of this podcast first, and Dmitri tells
Speaker 1: a personal story from his childhood and says he doesn't
Speaker 1: have PTSD from it, but what he just told me
Speaker 1: lets me know he definitely has PTS. The second I
Speaker 1: go anywhere, I look at all my surroundings and look
Speaker 1: at everyone around me. That's not PTSD. That's just being
Speaker 1: that's just being safe. That's being careful. Like the more
Speaker 1: alert you are, the less you'll be surprised by something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that there will be a
Speaker 1: decrease in sales of luxury goods. I don't think there
Speaker 1: will be. I just think people will probably wear their
Speaker 1: luxury goods out less frequently unless they're around other people
Speaker 1: who are also doing the same thing, like at a
Speaker 1: high end nightclub where their security or something where it's like,
Speaker 1: why do you have those high end things? Because you
Speaker 1: want to wear them out and be seen with them, right,
Speaker 1: So it's very like and I know there's people that
Speaker 1: lock them up and only wear them on special occasions
Speaker 1: and I don't know, to me, what's the point of
Speaker 1: having that, Like it's not me to begin with, this
Speaker 1: is not my style. But uh, if you had that, like,
Speaker 1: do you want to hide it, you want to only
Speaker 1: wear at certain times you want to? I don't just
Speaker 1: I don't see the reward on that. The downside is clear.
Speaker 1: We just talked about it. Yeah, I mean, I just
Speaker 1: got an expensive item for the first time in my
Speaker 1: entire life and it's you. I'm not, actually I am,
Speaker 1: And I am treating it like a child, like I
Speaker 1: put it back in its crib when we come home
Speaker 1: and the crib has a lock on it. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: that is what will happen to my baby. It will
Speaker 1: be locked in a crib and not allowed to come out.
Speaker 1: Don't just don't even put that on the recording. You
Speaker 1: can't do that. What may I ask what this item is?
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to steal my baby? Well no,
Speaker 1: but you can't lock them. There are froggers around, Dmitri.
Speaker 1: What is the what is this item that we've indulged
Speaker 1: ourselves with. Um, it's a bag. I got a nice
Speaker 1: bag when I was in Paris with Adam and I've
Speaker 1: never owned a nice bag before, so I'm never worried.
Speaker 1: So now when I do go out, if I'm going
Speaker 1: to place that I think will either a be dirty
Speaker 1: or be like if I'll have to put the bag
Speaker 1: down somewhere. Um, I usually just bring my backpack instead. Right, So,
Speaker 1: but do you feel like if you when you take
Speaker 1: that bag out? Right, do you feel like are you like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm holding this expensive bag? And do you feel like
Speaker 1: people are noticing it? Does it put you on it?
Speaker 1: That's the that's the whole point of Maitri. But I know,
Speaker 1: I know it's interesting because I think the people who care, notice,
Speaker 1: the people who recognize brand names, notice, you know the
Speaker 1: other people who also have the notice, and then I
Speaker 1: think people who are trying to take advantage of you
Speaker 1: also notice it's a double edged sword. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it's also like, why do I care about people noticing
Speaker 1: that I have a nice bag? Why do I care
Speaker 1: to have a nice bag? Let's into that. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I just um, one of our other producers just
Speaker 1: sent a chat that said, Burke and baby like I
Speaker 1: hear you. You know it's um. I think women really
Speaker 1: enjoy bags and shoes. And I don't mean that in
Speaker 1: a derogatory way. I think it's like a like almost
Speaker 1: it's almost like a fun self worth thing to be
Speaker 1: like I love this designer and there their luxury items
Speaker 1: and I'm proud to wear um and I'm proud to
Speaker 1: wrap this designer and it makes me feel confident, makes
Speaker 1: me feel good, it makes me feel beautiful and glamorous,
Speaker 1: and I enjoy all those things. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: have any designer shoes. I'm working on one step at
Speaker 1: the time, you guys, And uh, I just have a bag.
Speaker 1: And also, um, I got sent some jewelry that is expensive.
Speaker 1: You know, those are those orthopedic sneakers, you are those
Speaker 1: aren't designer they're just general. Yeah, they weren't Balinciaga, if
Speaker 1: you can believe that, And um, I would send some
Speaker 1: nice jewelry. And I do think about where I wear it. Well,
Speaker 1: you just but you just that's fine for me. You
Speaker 1: what you just said makes sense to me. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a perfect reason. If it makes you feel
Speaker 1: good about yourself and it makes you feel you know, whatever,
Speaker 1: it is, accomplished, confident, whatever, I think that's fine. But
Speaker 1: with that comes the responsibility of being aware of where
Speaker 1: you wear it and how you and how you carry it,
Speaker 1: of course, and I think it's important insurance on your
Speaker 1: unquote expensive things. I mean, it's just like, why would
Speaker 1: I need a house versus a one bedroom apartment. I
Speaker 1: just want the space. I have other rooms that I want,
Speaker 1: you know, I have other I want to set up
Speaker 1: a studio and do this and that. You know, It's like,
Speaker 1: why does anyone want more? Why does anyone want something
Speaker 1: that's expensive? You know, It's like why do you buy
Speaker 1: a certain top because it is the right color for me?
Speaker 1: It makes me feel good and confident when I walk
Speaker 1: into your room. You know, some people you walk into
Speaker 1: a room and you know, a plastic bag people aren't
Speaker 1: gonna take it seriously. I think the first impressions are
Speaker 1: a lot of this business and a lot about life too.
Speaker 1: Like you go on the first date, the first thing
Speaker 1: you do is see someone and whether or not they
Speaker 1: care about wealth or items of wealth, they do probably
Speaker 1: will care about aesthetic, you know. I don't know that
Speaker 1: many people who go on the first date having no
Speaker 1: clue what the person looks like. There are very few
Speaker 1: blind dates, you know. So it's like you go because
Speaker 1: you see their photos and you think, oh, this person
Speaker 1: is attractive. It's the same thing with anything else. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: I will say, I just trying to make myself feel
Speaker 1: better by the way, Yeah, I think, and it's fine.
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is totally fine. Um. But
Speaker 1: what I will say, which I just dawned on me
Speaker 1: now and it's make come across as a slight, but
Speaker 1: it's definitely not. The difference is no. The difference is
Speaker 1: you're single, right, you you're with you have a boyfriend,
Speaker 1: but you don't have kids, right, And so I don't
Speaker 1: fear me as a person like when I was single,
Speaker 1: when I was just me going places, I don't really
Speaker 1: fear much, right, But when you have other people, especially
Speaker 1: younger people that are that looked to you, and you
Speaker 1: now you have to protect them. You become a little
Speaker 1: So what I have warned something. I would never have
Speaker 1: a six rocks. I just don't think unless someone gave
Speaker 1: it to me would I have warned that is something
Speaker 1: I need to tell you. You've got me a gift.
Speaker 1: There's something outside your Yeah, yeah, I get um what
Speaker 1: I have done more quote unquote careless type of things
Speaker 1: or yeah, I probably would have, but now I'm I'm
Speaker 1: less open to it because there's other people. Then I'm
Speaker 1: putting other people in danger. I get that, and you know,
Speaker 1: to each his own m it makes sense. But when
Speaker 1: you have that baby locked in the crib, I think
Speaker 1: you'll think differently as well. Well, busy, be able to breathe.
Speaker 1: I just don't want anyone coming and taking my baby
Speaker 1: a mentally ill Okay, So moving on to the theme
Speaker 1: of today, which is stealing from our hot topics. American
Speaker 1: Airlines passenger accused of stealing ten thousand dollars mid air
Speaker 1: from fellow flyers. So he did this during the trip
Speaker 1: from Buenos Aries to Miami on Tuesday. Diego Sebastian Radio
Speaker 1: I feel like his last name is not pronounced radio,
Speaker 1: but here we are. It can't be but right, could
Speaker 1: be radio radio. I don't know. I wanted to roll
Speaker 1: my arm. Let me live. That's why you have five
Speaker 1: hours on your TikTok. Yeah. Leonmar allegedly also stole more
Speaker 1: than fourteen thousand Argentine pasos, which is about ten USD,
Speaker 1: and two credit cards from two other passengers during the
Speaker 1: July five flight. At least one flight attendant noticed some
Speaker 1: suspicious activity midflight, and, according to the affidavit signed by
Speaker 1: a passenger, noticed that radio initially paced the aisle of
Speaker 1: the plane and then took an unassigned seat near one
Speaker 1: of the victims. The crime was discovered when a flighted
Speaker 1: and asked the passenger to check her belongings and discover
Speaker 1: that several items were missing. Uh so he's now in
Speaker 1: custody and he was arrested by Customs and Border patrol
Speaker 1: and after the missing items were found in his possession,
Speaker 1: this is when he was arrested. Obviously. I mean again,
Speaker 1: this goes into the same thing. Are are you just
Speaker 1: like I don't know, are you? Are you going to
Speaker 1: be more mindful on flights about what sort of bags
Speaker 1: you bring, like would you might maybe not bring a
Speaker 1: Louis Vuitton luggage because someone's watching and could steal. I
Speaker 1: haven't actually personally heard of people stealing on flights before.
Speaker 1: You know why because there's nowhere to go. So this
Speaker 1: guy is an idiot, like he stole stuff. If you're
Speaker 1: going to steal something on a plane, you have nowhere
Speaker 1: to go. So if you're going to do it, and
Speaker 1: it's not like I'm giving tips to these people, but
Speaker 1: this is my opinion. If you're going to do it,
Speaker 1: take something, Take something from the person next to you,
Speaker 1: Take something for this. But the guy's walking awkwardly up
Speaker 1: and down the aisle, sitting in different seats, taking a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff from different people. That's just that's begging
Speaker 1: to be caught. And you can't get away. You're on
Speaker 1: a plane. No, there's nowhere to go. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: literally nowhere to run or hide. And this guy, I mean,
Speaker 1: what did he I don't know what he thought. I mean,
Speaker 1: he might have been on drugs, who knows. How do
Speaker 1: you think you're gonna get away with that? But I um,
Speaker 1: I think people do kind of let their guards down
Speaker 1: when they're flying. You know, they're either thinking about not
Speaker 1: dying and crashing, or they're crying watching a movie, or
Speaker 1: they're passed out trying to get a quick nap in
Speaker 1: before they get off the plane. And also because you
Speaker 1: just assumed that no one would do it, because it's like,
Speaker 1: where are you going to go? You cannot run from
Speaker 1: this crime. I mean, I'm I don't know. I've had
Speaker 1: a lot of weird experiences on airplanes, but it's all
Speaker 1: just been with annoying people who have bothered me. So
Speaker 1: I had to switch seats. Nothing to do with someone's
Speaker 1: stealing from me. Yeah, well, but you go ahead. I'm
Speaker 1: listening this One time, I um was flying to abisa
Speaker 1: well and I dropped my invisilne case on the floor.
Speaker 1: I was just like a full on Mr Bean at
Speaker 1: this point, just like look, look, look, look like everything
Speaker 1: was falling out and the case slid all the way
Speaker 1: to the front of the plane, and the guy sitting
Speaker 1: in the front was a very elderly man. He was
Speaker 1: reacting like a spaceship like an alien craft had. He
Speaker 1: was like what is this And I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, that's my invisible and he took it out
Speaker 1: and put it in his mouth and yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: they don't give you teeth, Um, they just mold the
Speaker 1: ones you have. But yeah, and then I had this
Speaker 1: rabbi once and next to me after a traumatic time
Speaker 1: in Panama City trying to get back to New York
Speaker 1: and all my flights being canceled and the airport being
Speaker 1: shut down and there being no food and water for
Speaker 1: over twenty four hours, and I didn't speak Spanish. This
Speaker 1: rabbi was like, oh, you should have children by now.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't be an artist. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: have to move this seat. This was the most traumatic
Speaker 1: part of that that I'd rather have my wallet stolen
Speaker 1: than have to like listen to someone tell me what
Speaker 1: I should be doing with my life. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're a man of the Lord, you know, yeah, just
Speaker 1: leave me alone anyway. Um So, Dmitri, do you have
Speaker 1: any worse experiences on a flight? No? Mine are always
Speaker 1: just you know, an annoyances. I've never had something, um,
Speaker 1: super bad happened on a flight. Um So no, I've
Speaker 1: never been you know, nothing where like It's it's more
Speaker 1: like people get angry, you know, or people start yelling
Speaker 1: or something like that at me. But people start yelling
Speaker 1: and then it's just kind of like the flight attendant. Like,
Speaker 1: I've been on a couple of things where they had
Speaker 1: to like take them off before the flight left, but
Speaker 1: nothing outrageous. I've never been on anything with with punches
Speaker 1: thrown or anything, thank you know, thank goodness, anything too bad.
Speaker 1: But it's you know, it's a you're you're in an
Speaker 1: enclosed tube and you're in there for a long period
Speaker 1: of time, and people's personalities come out in different ways,
Speaker 1: so there's there's always the possibility of something. My favorite
Speaker 1: thing that happened to me recently was there was a
Speaker 1: girl who her her ticket kept beeping red and she
Speaker 1: was yelling at the flight attendant. There's this huge line
Speaker 1: behind her trying to get onto the plane. Everyone's trying
Speaker 1: to get on the plane. She was like, scan it again,
Speaker 1: scan it again. I just changed the ticket. This is like,
Speaker 1: please scan it again. That's my seat number. And she
Speaker 1: just had the completely wrong flight. And when she walked away,
Speaker 1: I thought everyone was going to start applying because it
Speaker 1: was she was. I mean, the amount of self righteousness
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. I was like that saw that coming from
Speaker 1: mile away. Yeah. And by the way, be gracious about it, like,
Speaker 1: just even if that was the right, it's hilarious that
Speaker 1: it was a wrong flight. People don't want to help
Speaker 1: you when you're being an ass. I've learned this, and
Speaker 1: I'm so glad she wasn't on my flight. I was like,
Speaker 1: if this is how she is now, But then, to
Speaker 1: be fair, I probably would have also been her if
Speaker 1: I was very sure it was like scan it again. Anyway,
Speaker 1: you guys, let's take a quick break before we bring
Speaker 1: on our amazing guest for today and talk about Frogging,
Speaker 1: which you're not gonna want to miss because it is
Speaker 1: absolutely terrified. I give it a ten out of ten. Cringe.
Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back and we're back to
Speaker 1: real time crime. You guys. I'm very excited about our
Speaker 1: guest and equally as excited to talk about the show
Speaker 1: that she is an ep on and dear God, Dmitri,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you watched the first episode. You
Speaker 1: know we get privilege information sometimes lucky us. Well I know,
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, that's my parents said. Um and and
Speaker 1: the whole show is called frogging Hyder in my house.
Speaker 1: Think about that. You already have a picture the picture
Speaker 1: in your head is correct. The show is going to
Speaker 1: premiere Monday, n Central. So everyone, we have with us
Speaker 1: here our special guests today. Jessica ever left, Hi Jessica. Hi.
Speaker 1: With you guys so incredible, haven't you here with us today?
Speaker 1: I watched the first episode and we already told our
Speaker 1: listeners were spoiled. We got an early copy, and I'm
Speaker 1: blown away and disturbed and terrified and now thinking that
Speaker 1: someone is living in my walls. I mean, everybody's going
Speaker 1: to think that right after they watched the show. It's
Speaker 1: incredible and there each one of them could be their
Speaker 1: own horror movie. These are stranger than fiction stories. Um,
Speaker 1: each one could be, like I said, its own movie.
Speaker 1: I just thought. My thought was, these are all going
Speaker 1: to be made into separate Netflix movies. Absolutely definitely. Each
Speaker 1: story is almost as unbelievable as the next. Agree and
Speaker 1: sorry to me, trade go for it. No, what I
Speaker 1: was gonna say is I have a problem. I can
Speaker 1: a news article and think, oh, well, that's weird. So
Speaker 1: I did see one recently about someone that was living
Speaker 1: in someone's attic, and I thought that's weird, but probably
Speaker 1: just you know, on anomaly or something. And then this
Speaker 1: show comes and you know, see the trailer and I
Speaker 1: see the first episode and I'm like, crap, this is
Speaker 1: something that happens a lot. So so I went from
Speaker 1: being able to dismiss it to now being terrified and
Speaker 1: like every little noise I here in the house, I'm like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I got a whole community up there. That's great. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: It's more common than you think. And when we dug
Speaker 1: into our research, we found two cases immediately immediately, which
Speaker 1: means that there are so many. Yeah, and there's two
Speaker 1: stories per hour in frogging, so there's twenty stories and
Speaker 1: they're just they're just wild. Okay. So first of all,
Speaker 1: I don't do well. I know we have a true
Speaker 1: gram podcast, but historically I don't do well with horror.
Speaker 1: Anything that seems like a psychological thriller really disturbs me.
Speaker 1: And I did not sleep well last night. I do
Speaker 1: blame you. There is a monster under the bed. Now
Speaker 1: I'm convinced. Now I'm checking every closet door, I'm checking
Speaker 1: every nook and cranny of my house every time I
Speaker 1: walk in. I mean, that's what will happen to everyone
Speaker 1: once they start watching the show. Absolutely, they're gonna have
Speaker 1: to check their crawl spaces, their addicts behind any kind
Speaker 1: of false walls that they have ums. I would prefer
Speaker 1: a monster or a ghost as opposed to a real
Speaker 1: person in my wall or in my attic. Bunny, you
Speaker 1: mentioned ghosts. Most people believe that they had a ghost
Speaker 1: in their house before they jumped to the conclusion they
Speaker 1: had an intruder. That's what was really funny, because it
Speaker 1: kind of starts off slowly, where things disappear or they move,
Speaker 1: they disappear, then reappear somewhere else. Um food starts to disappear,
Speaker 1: and they hear footsteps, maybe some kind of like disembody
Speaker 1: voice that's really just a faint voice they're hearing from
Speaker 1: another room, and they think they have a ghost in
Speaker 1: the house. I would until they you know, I would.
Speaker 1: I would rather have a pastor come into my house
Speaker 1: and perform an exorcism. And I'm Jewish than for there
Speaker 1: to be an actual human hiding in my walls. And
Speaker 1: and Jessica, just to the listeners have a better understanding
Speaker 1: in your own words, can you describe what frogging is
Speaker 1: Frogging is My understanding is when it's not squatting, it's
Speaker 1: when someone is living in your house at the same time,
Speaker 1: unbeknown for you. So it's kind of like the movie
Speaker 1: Parasite where the family was living in the basement at
Speaker 1: the same time as the other family that's frogging. And
Speaker 1: sometimes the house is the targets of the frogging, or
Speaker 1: it's the person. So when it's the person, it's really
Speaker 1: more of a stalking frogger situation, which is even more scary.
Speaker 1: There was that image that I saw of someone removing
Speaker 1: like the electrical outlet and just you see eyes peering
Speaker 1: through it. So what do you what is the what
Speaker 1: do you find is the most common reason? Is it
Speaker 1: that they just need a place to live or is
Speaker 1: it that they're doing creepy pervy stuff. Um, I would
Speaker 1: say most of the time it's creepy stuff. Occasionally it's
Speaker 1: somebody just needed someplace to live for free and see it.
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of stalking cases, so yeah,
Speaker 1: they want to spy. Or there's a neighbor who now
Speaker 1: is fixated on the person living in a nearby apartment
Speaker 1: and they they're like a peeping tom, you know. But
Speaker 1: now they're frogging. They're living above their space. So we've
Speaker 1: had a few of those as well. So it's it's
Speaker 1: very scary, especially for a woman who lives alone. You know,
Speaker 1: I would imagine. Yeah, I'm sorry. Are there any cases
Speaker 1: where the frogger was allowed to claim squatters rights? No,
Speaker 1: The people who were caught were arrested in various charges
Speaker 1: breaking an enter room, stalking, um some assault charges. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was it's a serious prime it's not it's
Speaker 1: not swatting, Okay, And I just want to take it
Speaker 1: back for two seconds and just talk about you for
Speaker 1: a second. Your career is so well rounded and it
Speaker 1: seems super eclectic. You know, you've worked on some iconic shows,
Speaker 1: but it seems like true crime has always been a
Speaker 1: passion of yours. I guess I'm just curious to know
Speaker 1: what you love about true crime. Um Let started off
Speaker 1: in documentaries and music, and I moved to l a
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, and then my first job was working
Speaker 1: on a true crime show with a famous blood spatter expert,
Speaker 1: Dr Henry Lee. So I think that's what kind of
Speaker 1: launched my career in true crime. So that's that's just
Speaker 1: been my lane crime investigation documentaries and and also I
Speaker 1: hate to bring this up, but we do know you
Speaker 1: worked on the r Kelly documentary and just so curious
Speaker 1: to know your thoughts now that the ruling has come
Speaker 1: to light. Yeah, I mean, I'm real. I'm glad the women, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we're heard and there's been justice. He is
Speaker 1: facing another trial. I think it's going to be televised
Speaker 1: to so there's one coming up in August, so it's
Speaker 1: gonna be interesting to see what happens. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm still blown away at the impact the
Speaker 1: documentary have and you know, it's a very Um, it
Speaker 1: was one of the most difficult things I've ever worked
Speaker 1: on with one of the most important projects, if not
Speaker 1: the most important. I mean, you you brought justice to survivors.
Speaker 1: That was the goal, and I'm really glad. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm happy for them. Do you think that he deserved
Speaker 1: more than thirty years? Um? You know, it's it's interesting
Speaker 1: because I think giz Lane Maxwell was sentenced the same
Speaker 1: week and people were talking about that that she got
Speaker 1: twenty years and Artilly got thirty. So you know, I
Speaker 1: wasn't at the trial. I don't know. Um, I just
Speaker 1: know that the women needed to be protected and there's
Speaker 1: he's facing a lot more. Um. You know, in terms
Speaker 1: of this trial coming up in Chicago. Wow. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for sending some light on that. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've all been following in that story now obviously for
Speaker 1: a long time. M And okay, So moving on from
Speaker 1: R Kelly. Unless a cat scream like of course, was
Speaker 1: around a zoom when you work at home, you have
Speaker 1: a daughter cab so he does enter, so at least
Speaker 1: you know what the at least you know what the
Speaker 1: noises is not coming from the wall, not the frog,
Speaker 1: not this time, thank god. Okay, So with frogging, how
Speaker 1: did this idea come to you and how did you
Speaker 1: even begin to find people who had been accosted by progress? Well,
Speaker 1: the company came to me with the project. They had
Speaker 1: developed it for some time and lifetimes excited about it.
Speaker 1: So having worked for lifetime in the past on surviving R. Kelly, um,
Speaker 1: they told me about the project. It sounded really interesting
Speaker 1: that it was non murder crime to work on. So
Speaker 1: that was nice and nice reprieve from working on a
Speaker 1: lot of you know, other shows that are more you
Speaker 1: know that are hard work on terms of victim impact.
Speaker 1: But surprisingly these victims were all super traumatized. So here
Speaker 1: he is it's making appearance. Um, these victims have residual trauma.
Speaker 1: They don't feel safe in their own home and UM.
Speaker 1: So yeah. And would you say that there have been
Speaker 1: any shows that you've worked on, including this one, that
Speaker 1: have left you traumatized? Well, I think Surviving R. Kelly
Speaker 1: did because it was just so intense and there were,
Speaker 1: you know, constant threats going on. Um. I think it
Speaker 1: was in the papers that you know, there was a
Speaker 1: gun threat phoned in, UM to screening in New York.
Speaker 1: So it was just you know, that was all in
Speaker 1: the newspapers. It was in a Rolling Stone and several newspapers,
Speaker 1: so that was really intense. But I mean I'm always
Speaker 1: I always feel for the victims. When I worked on
Speaker 1: a crime show, I don't just a job. It's like
Speaker 1: I have to feel I want, I feel connected to people, um,
Speaker 1: you know, who want to tell their stories. So UM,
Speaker 1: and then I actually keep in touch with people afterwards.
Speaker 1: That's so nice. We haven't done that, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I haven't kept in touch with anyone in the last
Speaker 1: twenty years. I only know Dmitri but Jessica. Okay, so
Speaker 1: there were ten episodes and every episode is two stories.
Speaker 1: Do they increase in intensity or is every episode just
Speaker 1: banger so terrifying. Yeah, I think the first two stories
Speaker 1: are the scariest, but then the last few stories are
Speaker 1: also very very scary. So the first and the second ones,
Speaker 1: um could easily sustain an entire you know, to our
Speaker 1: feature film. They're that bad. Could you give us a
Speaker 1: brief synopsis of the one that scared you the most? Well,
Speaker 1: the first The first one is you know, um secret surgeon.
Speaker 1: Um that that story was very intense, and the family
Speaker 1: came home, Um, they were on big pation. They confronted
Speaker 1: the frogger at the front door, but only after he
Speaker 1: was hauled away and arrested. They found out that he
Speaker 1: had been watching them for weeks and he had planned
Speaker 1: on performing surgeries on them, and they found knives and
Speaker 1: other things in the house. The second episode is also
Speaker 1: very scary because the frogger was stalking and terrorizing the
Speaker 1: family for months. He was pretending to be the ghost
Speaker 1: of one of the women's dead mother. So that's very intense.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was pretty so the frogger was pretending
Speaker 1: to be a ghost. Um was only caught later and
Speaker 1: then after that person got out of prison went on
Speaker 1: to kill people, so they were lucky to be alive. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and how did they catch him? Finally again, they saw
Speaker 1: him in the house. They had left the house when
Speaker 1: they heard noises, They confronted the frogger, they left, they
Speaker 1: came back with the police and then the police who
Speaker 1: got him out of no. No, I mean after he
Speaker 1: committed the murders, there was a mad hunt. Oh I
Speaker 1: am wow. Yeah. So is there a common through line
Speaker 1: of severe mental illness and a lot of the froggers Well,
Speaker 1: I used to referring to the first episode that you watched,
Speaker 1: I would say that one was little I think an
Speaker 1: anomaly because he was it was a random He had
Speaker 1: fixated on the homeowners, but he didn't know them before.
Speaker 1: Where's the second episode I'm referring to. There was a
Speaker 1: relationship with the people who lived in the house. So
Speaker 1: the frogger was really a stalker. So when it's random,
Speaker 1: it's it's I guess, not as scary. But even still,
Speaker 1: after the frogger is caught, people do do not feel
Speaker 1: safe in their home. No, I mean, I remember, I
Speaker 1: don't want to give anything away, but watching the first
Speaker 1: story and seeing that there were notes left about like
Speaker 1: you know, start planting equipment and and you know in
Speaker 1: cameras and this of stuff and all these notes. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting because it's like, at what point do you
Speaker 1: think that they want to get caught or do you
Speaker 1: think that they're maybe in this case in specific, he
Speaker 1: was just so delusional that he wasn't even thinking like that.
Speaker 1: I think he was delusional. But I think they're also
Speaker 1: very lucky they came home and confronted him. So had
Speaker 1: they not, he could have just slipped back up into
Speaker 1: the attic and killed them in their sleep. And they
Speaker 1: were they were completely vulnerable to him because he had
Speaker 1: been there for a while and he knew about their
Speaker 1: private life. And yeah, and he knew that he knew
Speaker 1: their routine when they when they that's usually when people,
Speaker 1: you know, find the frauders, when they break through rougine
Speaker 1: and come home early or their schedule changes, and so
Speaker 1: you'll you'll see a lot of that in the story,
Speaker 1: when somebody comes someone from work early and they break
Speaker 1: the routine, they find the frauder. I'm cringing. So that's
Speaker 1: the article I had. I had read was somebody I
Speaker 1: think was living in the attic for a while, and
Speaker 1: what he would do is he'd come down in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night and he just sit there and
Speaker 1: why true sleep and like video as well. And it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, but there's some there's some weird stuff like
Speaker 1: we're thinking, okay, people who are like, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: have a big addic it ken't. But but they really
Speaker 1: there's there's some crafty ways that they live inside these houses,
Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah. They can just kind of slip in
Speaker 1: and then hide in the closet and then slip back out.
Speaker 1: So it's not like they're just living in the closet.
Speaker 1: Seven are living in the crawl space. Seven they get out,
Speaker 1: they can come and go and then they slip back
Speaker 1: and when they know the homeowners routine and then they
Speaker 1: watch them. They watch them through air events. They drill
Speaker 1: holes and walls, they remove electrical plates. Those are the ones.
Speaker 1: Those are the stocking stories again, but the ones that
Speaker 1: are just kind of there because they want place to sleep. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: in general, they don't do that. The good news is
Speaker 1: for me is none of my neighbors want anything to
Speaker 1: do with me, so I feel pretty safe. See I
Speaker 1: am the opposite problem where it's like my ex boyfriend
Speaker 1: is hiding behind electrical stock. I'm like, fine, we can
Speaker 1: live together, but you put them there, so it's different.
Speaker 1: It's different, and it's different. Um. But okay, So you
Speaker 1: know the thing that's so terrifying about this is that
Speaker 1: this seems like one of those things that the police
Speaker 1: wouldn't take seriously. Do you find that that happens? That
Speaker 1: homeowners would go to the police and report that they
Speaker 1: felt like someone was in their house, and then they
Speaker 1: were taken seriously or not taken seriously, and they do
Speaker 1: a search and they can't find anything, and then they're
Speaker 1: called back. You'll see that on multiple stories. And that's
Speaker 1: really not the police's fault. I mean, they've they've done
Speaker 1: their best. They looked in every room, um, and you know,
Speaker 1: the frog are just slips out or there. They found
Speaker 1: a great hiding spot and can remain undetected. And no
Speaker 1: one would think to look in an air event well
Speaker 1: not really hiding in an air vent. They're looking through
Speaker 1: an air event location. They need more room to stretch out.
Speaker 1: This is good. This is good though for people that,
Speaker 1: um that thought that they were safe. We've now added
Speaker 1: another level to something that your mind didn't quite explore.
Speaker 1: So make sure you watch this show alone and at
Speaker 1: night in the pure darkness, check everything before you just
Speaker 1: sorry what you think is alone, but maybe not. Another
Speaker 1: interesting thing that you know, ring cameras and surveillance cameras
Speaker 1: they catch frauders too, So people find out they have
Speaker 1: a frauder because you know those you know, those images
Speaker 1: end up going to somebody's phone and then they're alerted,
Speaker 1: you know, at work. So those are pretty good at
Speaker 1: catching froggers. So I haven't recommend those. That's so interesting
Speaker 1: because if I was a frogger and I saw a
Speaker 1: ring light, I would assume that they could see me
Speaker 1: or least plant them. Yeah. No, it's it's interesting. I mean,
Speaker 1: especially in the first one where things are getting picked
Speaker 1: up and it's like, wouldn't you want to put things
Speaker 1: back exactly where they were? Right? You know. I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting that it's clear that something is off and
Speaker 1: they're not really putting in a lot of effort to
Speaker 1: make it feel like no one is there. But it's
Speaker 1: probably a psychological thrill for them, right, because I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're going to sit there and watch someone, right,
Speaker 1: you want to see them kind of scared themselves or
Speaker 1: react to stuff and not thinking that you're there watching them.
Speaker 1: Maybe the same thing as setting up a camera and
Speaker 1: watching people's reactions to stuff. So yeah, they probably do
Speaker 1: leave it not exactly the same for that reason. Well,
Speaker 1: dmitri as the frogging expert, Well just right though, I
Speaker 1: mean people, Yeah, there are some really sinister froggers that
Speaker 1: want to instill terror into some of these homeowners, and
Speaker 1: so they enjoy watching them being frightened. This is so
Speaker 1: absolutely terrifying to me, kind of like we're enjoying watching
Speaker 1: be frightened right now. I'm so uncomfortable. I'm so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I'm literally sitting here just thinking about all my cabinets.
Speaker 1: I'm like do I need I'm I'm like, do I
Speaker 1: need to get a ring light? Right now? What would
Speaker 1: you suggest to people to defend themselves against froggers or
Speaker 1: what to do if they suspect they have a frogger
Speaker 1: should probably just leave and and call the police that
Speaker 1: they really think there's somebody there, especially if they see
Speaker 1: evidence that somebody's been in their home. Um, if they
Speaker 1: have tried that, and then I would say get yea
Speaker 1: plants surveillance cameras all over the house, and I would
Speaker 1: venture to say that there's enough crazy in the world.
Speaker 1: There's enough crazy people in the world. Don't just turn
Speaker 1: back to yourself and be like, I'm imagining this, I'm crazy.
Speaker 1: Check it out first, and then like, don't just put
Speaker 1: it on yourself and be like, oh, this is me,
Speaker 1: I'm crazy. No, there could be someone doing crazy stuff,
Speaker 1: and don't sell them short unless it's me, in which
Speaker 1: case I probably am just crazy. That I think is
Speaker 1: a nice combo. It's a nicet. It's like a surfing turf, exactly, exactly. Okay, So, um,
Speaker 1: when when you were talking to the victims, was there
Speaker 1: anything that stood out to you about, um, how they
Speaker 1: felt or how they was there anything like a common
Speaker 1: through line or um action that they all took, or
Speaker 1: any sort of like big fights they got into families
Speaker 1: with or anything like that, Because when someone else doesn't
Speaker 1: believe you, it seems like that could really create tension
Speaker 1: to the point of divorce. Yeah. I mean some people
Speaker 1: think that they're just under stressed, especially they live with
Speaker 1: another person, and or they think that, like I said,
Speaker 1: they think they have a ghost in the house. Um there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does create a lot of tension when one person
Speaker 1: is experiencing the broady and the other person isn't so. Um,
Speaker 1: but I think, you know, finally, you know, like when
Speaker 1: he was watching in the first episode, Um, the roommates,
Speaker 1: when they found the man's handprints in the bathroom, that
Speaker 1: was enough. They all they all got it. But they again,
Speaker 1: they thought they had a ghost in the house too.
Speaker 1: I think this is the most uncomfortable I've ever been
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Yeah, it is, it is. It's it's
Speaker 1: quite creepy. And luckily, I mean for me, I'm the
Speaker 1: type of person that likes to prove something. So if
Speaker 1: my wife was like, there's somebody living here, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be the person that would go up in the attic
Speaker 1: and I would check everyth Now, see there's not just
Speaker 1: so I could say, you see, there's not nothing to
Speaker 1: worry about. But when I was little, I found out
Speaker 1: years later we had somebody that was like, I don't
Speaker 1: know it was a runaway or somebody that that basically
Speaker 1: had broken into our basement for a while and had
Speaker 1: been staying there. But I think it was like I
Speaker 1: think our next door neighbor like knew them and was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you can get in there, and basically, so we offered
Speaker 1: up our basement. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't realize
Speaker 1: this till years later my sister told me. But so
Speaker 1: it was permission, well kind of by someone that didn't
Speaker 1: wasn't able to grant permission. But yes, and I used
Speaker 1: to go down to that basement by myself all the time.
Speaker 1: I was when I found this out as an adult,
Speaker 1: I was like, what the therapy about this? Reach? No,
Speaker 1: this is it. I didn't want to bother the therapist
Speaker 1: or you know, but the insurance as a hassle. They
Speaker 1: want to see the card and so I just forgot
Speaker 1: to bring it up at some point on this podcast. Wow,
Speaker 1: this is the perfect time. Thank you so much. Okay, Also,
Speaker 1: let me just say, um, Dmitri, I actually can't believe
Speaker 1: you've never brought this up before. Well yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I think it was suppressing it until it just was like, oh,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, somebody living in the basement. I don't
Speaker 1: know how long it was for, but any even a
Speaker 1: minute too long for me. I mean, now, when you
Speaker 1: go into your basement, do you feel like you have PTSD?
Speaker 1: I would, uh, I don't know. I don't worry about
Speaker 1: stuff like that now. Um, but I think it was
Speaker 1: more of like when I found out and I thought
Speaker 1: about childhood, me like that that scared the crap out
Speaker 1: of me. But now I'm just like whatever, all go
Speaker 1: down and check it out. God, what's it like to
Speaker 1: be well adjusted? Yeah? Exactly? Well okay, So so Jessica,
Speaker 1: You've also done a lot of lighthearted lifestyle shows like
Speaker 1: house Hunter's you know, what do you feel like? Is
Speaker 1: more satisfying for you as a producer. I mean, I
Speaker 1: love that it's funny because you guys work on crime show.
Speaker 1: I work on crime shows. I like to do compressed
Speaker 1: and watch a lot of like home renault shows at night.
Speaker 1: I don't want to come home and watch more crime
Speaker 1: because I've been dealing with it all days. So, um,
Speaker 1: those are those are just fun and lighthearted shows. I
Speaker 1: really like him. But I mean I love the challenge
Speaker 1: of documentaries and true crime is interesting. Um, also investigations
Speaker 1: like even Catfish. I worked on Catfish that was an investigation,
Speaker 1: but it's a love story first and a mystery second.
Speaker 1: So those shows are fun, even though it's more of
Speaker 1: a lighthearted investigation show. But I would say anything that
Speaker 1: creates an impact, that's my favorite thing to work on.
Speaker 1: Was there any episode of Catfish that really stuck out
Speaker 1: to you? Uh, there's one where the Catfish Portunity. He
Speaker 1: was a big music producer, and you have to be
Speaker 1: more specific that that one stood out in my mind.
Speaker 1: But I worked on a spinoff show called Untold Stories.
Speaker 1: To these were like past tense stories, not to investigations,
Speaker 1: where people tell their wildest catfish stories that they fell
Speaker 1: in love with somebody and it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody already knew who didn't like them. They didn't like
Speaker 1: them back, crazy stuff. So people are so bizarre. Okay,
Speaker 1: of all the projects you've worked on, has there anything
Speaker 1: that's really stayed with you or haunted you, so to speak,
Speaker 1: or something that's really left an impact. Well, I'm probably
Speaker 1: surviving r Kelly just because of the women went through. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that stayed with me. Wow. Okay, Well, Jessica, I don't
Speaker 1: want to take a couple of your time today. So
Speaker 1: unless Dmitri has any other questions, I think I'm sufficiently
Speaker 1: freaked out. Just I don't think we ever explained it
Speaker 1: frog the name frogging because it's with a pH, right,
Speaker 1: So also when you're looking it up, don't put in uh,
Speaker 1: you know, don't put it f R. It's pH But
Speaker 1: where does that come from? Like a frog that leaps
Speaker 1: from place to place? So somebody who's like just moving
Speaker 1: around undetected that they spelled it within pH rock the animal,
Speaker 1: so people didn't think they were looking up at a
Speaker 1: frog documentary. Good than exactly exactly. Yeah, So just make
Speaker 1: sure you check your crawl spaces and your addicts immediately
Speaker 1: following the podcast. Absolutely. Now I'm gonna go find crawl
Speaker 1: spaces in my house, but I can't wait. So you guys,
Speaker 1: just to be sure you've heard this before, but we're
Speaker 1: going to say it again. The show premieres Monday, July
Speaker 1: eighth at ten ninth Central and also streams the next day.
Speaker 1: It's on Lifetime and it's called Frogging with a pH
Speaker 1: Hider in My House And Jessica, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being with us today. I really appreciate it. All right,
Speaker 1: thanks guys, thank you. I mean, just in case you
Speaker 1: wanted to be freaked out. There's sometimes we can talk
Speaker 1: about something on this show, on this podcast and and
Speaker 1: we're fine. You can walk away from it like, well
Speaker 1: that was a good conversation, but now this is gonna
Speaker 1: stick with you for a while, isn't it. I'm so
Speaker 1: uncomfortable to Metrie. I don't know, like the story of
Speaker 1: the boy that hides inside the walls of the family home,
Speaker 1: terrorizing the teenage girls for months. It's it's so interesting
Speaker 1: because in my head, I'm like, this isn't a game,
Speaker 1: this isn't funny. These are people's real lives. If this
Speaker 1: was happening to me, I would be going absolutely batch.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know me, well, yeah, I mean you're
Speaker 1: you're kind of heading that way anyway. But imagine all
Speaker 1: these times when you're saying, you know, here at the podcast,
Speaker 1: we get screeners first, and we have the privilege so
Speaker 1: we're the only ones to get to see them. But
Speaker 1: now you realize someone could be watching along with you.
Speaker 1: And that's our episode for today. Everyone, Um, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I will be hosting this podcast alone next week,
Speaker 1: but I'll think I'll be alone, but to Meetrill just
Speaker 1: be in the air vent behind me. But this is
Speaker 1: this has been never again, Dmitri. This has been never again, Dmitri.
Speaker 1: And also, I cannot believe you hoarded that story until
Speaker 1: just now. Honestly, I forgot about it so much, so
Speaker 1: much trauma trauma. I had to dig it up because
Speaker 1: you know what, I think, had that happened and had
Speaker 1: I realized it then, right, had I gone down to
Speaker 1: the basement and been and confronted somebody down there, it
Speaker 1: would have been a different story than finding out about
Speaker 1: it when I didn't. We didn't even own the house
Speaker 1: anymore like it was when I was a little kid,
Speaker 1: and then I found out as an adult, So that
Speaker 1: kind of it kind of made it a little less
Speaker 1: not a little less real, but it wasn't as traumatic probably,
Speaker 1: so see. I feel like for me now as an adult,
Speaker 1: if I ever had a basement, I would just constantly
Speaker 1: think someone was living down there. Yeah. Well, and especially
Speaker 1: the way house is settled, like I have an attic
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'll hear noises and it's like, oh that
Speaker 1: it's so weird because sometimes it settles and it sounds
Speaker 1: like a footstep, but it's not. I've been up there.
Speaker 1: There's no way up there except through the house, and
Speaker 1: I've been up there. You guys, would you comment on
Speaker 1: real time crime hood posts or d ms on Instagram
Speaker 1: and let us know if you're now checking every nook
Speaker 1: and cranny of your house and if you're terrified. And
Speaker 1: also if anything like this has ever happened to you,
Speaker 1: I don't want to know, but Dmitri does because he's
Speaker 1: starting a support group. Yeah, I'll wat through him and
Speaker 1: I'll share the ones that I think you can handle,
Speaker 1: So none of them. And if you find somebody, obviously,
Speaker 1: feel free to call the police first, then reach out
Speaker 1: to most after. Please call the police first, pretty much
Speaker 1: always police first, and then call in live at that's
Speaker 1: eight six six twenty one. Come eight six six to anyone.
Speaker 1: Come it's eight six six two one two seven four
Speaker 1: six three. Just leave us voice mail. Maybe we'll play it.
Speaker 1: Real Time Crime pod on Instagram. I'm at Leo Lamar
Speaker 1: e h l A m A r R TikTok with
Speaker 1: five rs. Should dates at Lee Lamar dot com. Same
Speaker 1: thing as Twitter, Dmitri at Dmitri pappis across social media
Speaker 1: and you know Leahs show dates are up at her
Speaker 1: site to so check this up. Alright, guys, this has
Speaker 1: been a very manic episode of real time crime. We'll
Speaker 1: see you next week. Stay safe, check your events, love
Speaker 1: youa goodbye. It's real time crap it real time gro
Speaker 1: I mean, is it actually real time crime? I'm solving
Speaker 1: anything or is that just the thing we say, it's
Speaker 1: a thing, we say, got it? Okay, See you next
Speaker 1: week for more real time crime, only on i Heart Radio.