WEBVTT - How SharkNinja Keeps Going Viral 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:26.796 --> 0:00:29.316 I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this is what's your problem. My 0:00:29.396 --> 0:00:33.676 guest today is Mark Barochus. He's the CEO of Shark Ninja. 0:00:34.236 --> 0:00:36.676 When Mark started at the company in two thousand and eight, 0:00:36.836 --> 0:00:42.036 they sold a mop and a cordless sweeper, largely via infomercial. Today, 0:00:42.476 --> 0:00:46.716 Shark Ninja sells six billion dollars worth of stuff every year, 0:00:47.316 --> 0:00:50.636 mops and vacuum cleaners, but also ice cream makers and 0:00:50.796 --> 0:00:53.956 air fryers and blenders and hair dryers and this thing 0:00:53.996 --> 0:00:56.476 that's supposedly good for your skin and has lights on 0:00:56.516 --> 0:00:58.236 it and you put it on your face and it 0:00:58.276 --> 0:01:00.996 makes you look like a Lucha Libre wrestler. What I'm 0:01:01.036 --> 0:01:04.556 saying is they sell everything now, and they sell it everywhere. 0:01:05.076 --> 0:01:08.236 I wanted to talk to Mark because Shark Ninja is 0:01:08.316 --> 0:01:11.916 an innovative company, not in the frontiers of science sense, 0:01:12.316 --> 0:01:14.596 but in the making a blender that does something you've 0:01:14.636 --> 0:01:16.516 never been able to do at home before with a 0:01:16.516 --> 0:01:20.876 blender since also in the designing products to go viral 0:01:20.916 --> 0:01:24.516 on social media sense. As our editor said, Shark Ninja 0:01:24.596 --> 0:01:27.636 is like Bell Labs for stuff nobody really needs but 0:01:27.836 --> 0:01:30.996 lots of people clearly want, and so there is a 0:01:30.996 --> 0:01:34.236 lot to learn from the company. In our conversation, Mark 0:01:34.276 --> 0:01:37.036 and I talked about how the company develops new products, 0:01:37.476 --> 0:01:40.596 the trade offs it makes between engineering the perfect product 0:01:40.676 --> 0:01:43.596 and the good enough product at the right price, and 0:01:44.156 --> 0:01:48.516 why the secret to going viral is Schmutz. To start, 0:01:48.796 --> 0:01:51.876 I asked Mark to tell me about the company's first big, 0:01:52.196 --> 0:01:55.956 non obvious leap from selling mops to selling a new 0:01:56.036 --> 0:01:56.716 kind of blender. 0:01:57.236 --> 0:02:00.436 We looked at the blender market and we said, you know, 0:02:00.516 --> 0:02:04.076 what do consumers want to do with blenders. Well, in 0:02:04.116 --> 0:02:07.436 their home they were doing one thing. But outside their home, 0:02:07.596 --> 0:02:11.716 American consumers want to frozen drinks. And you'd go to 0:02:11.756 --> 0:02:14.876 these Mexican restaurants and you'd get a frozen margarita and 0:02:14.876 --> 0:02:17.876 they'd be done in these kind of professional, big blenders, 0:02:18.396 --> 0:02:20.356 and you'd get home and you try to make it, 0:02:20.516 --> 0:02:23.076 and a blender had blades that were on the bottom, 0:02:23.876 --> 0:02:26.636 and so you'd put the ice into the blender and 0:02:26.716 --> 0:02:28.916 the ice would just jump up because we'd never get 0:02:28.956 --> 0:02:30.996 to the blades. And then so you'd add more liquid 0:02:31.036 --> 0:02:32.916 and add more liquid, and by the time you added 0:02:32.956 --> 0:02:35.436 a whole bunch of liquid, you no longer had a 0:02:35.436 --> 0:02:38.276 frozen drink. You had this kind of cold, watery drink. 0:02:38.916 --> 0:02:41.356 And so we said, well, hold on, if this is 0:02:41.396 --> 0:02:44.556 what consumers want, we have to solve the problem of 0:02:44.636 --> 0:02:49.076 making restaurant quality frozen drinks. And we said, why are 0:02:49.076 --> 0:02:51.796 the blades on the bottom, Why don't the blades go 0:02:51.916 --> 0:02:54.836 up the top. And if the blades go up the top, 0:02:55.236 --> 0:02:56.876 you can put a whole bunch of ice in it. 0:02:56.996 --> 0:03:00.636 You can turn the ice to snow. And we ultimately, 0:03:01.196 --> 0:03:05.676 you know, developed this technology and we would buy bags 0:03:05.716 --> 0:03:10.036 of ice in gas stations and we'd walk into the 0:03:10.076 --> 0:03:13.156 Walmart buyer and we would fill the ice to the 0:03:13.156 --> 0:03:16.636 top of the picture. We'd put the blade inside and 0:03:16.676 --> 0:03:19.156 we turned the ice to snow and we'd pour the 0:03:19.196 --> 0:03:22.076 picture of snow onto the table and we'd say, look 0:03:22.076 --> 0:03:25.276 at this fuel, this consistency. Well, the buyer thought we 0:03:25.276 --> 0:03:27.996 were crazy at the time, but that was the secret 0:03:28.196 --> 0:03:32.796 ingredient to making these creamy, restaurant quality frozen drinks. And 0:03:32.876 --> 0:03:35.356 so when we went out and the first time we 0:03:35.476 --> 0:03:38.196 launched this Ninja Master Prep was in two thousand and 0:03:38.276 --> 0:03:42.916 nine on QVC and instantly it sold out. One day, 0:03:42.996 --> 0:03:45.796 we sold like forty thousand units in one day. 0:03:45.916 --> 0:03:47.236 Was the biggest success we had. 0:03:47.196 --> 0:03:50.476 Ever had one day in the company's history, and what 0:03:50.516 --> 0:03:53.916 it was was that the minute we did these demonstrations, 0:03:54.076 --> 0:03:57.876 consumers immediately said, not wow, I've never heard of this 0:03:57.956 --> 0:04:01.596 brand Ninja, you know, or oh, what an interesting blender. 0:04:01.916 --> 0:04:05.796 What they said is they solved my problem. They solved 0:04:05.836 --> 0:04:09.036 my problem. That's what I want to do with a blender. Well, 0:04:09.476 --> 0:04:13.556 that is everything that Shark Ninja stands for today. That 0:04:13.636 --> 0:04:17.636 when the consumer sees what we've developed, whether it's a fan, 0:04:18.196 --> 0:04:21.036 whether it's an air fryer, whether it's an outdoor grill, 0:04:21.156 --> 0:04:24.076 whether it's a skincare mask, whether it's a hairstyle, or 0:04:24.076 --> 0:04:26.716 whether it's a vacuum, what we want is for the 0:04:26.716 --> 0:04:30.476 consumer to look at the product and say, they solved 0:04:30.556 --> 0:04:31.276 my problem. 0:04:31.636 --> 0:04:35.196 I know your partner did infomercials. Did you ever do infomercials? 0:04:35.196 --> 0:04:37.756 Because I suddenly feel like I'm watching an infomercial. 0:04:37.916 --> 0:04:39.356 I did not do infomercials. 0:04:39.756 --> 0:04:41.356 Is it true that you were going to call the 0:04:41.396 --> 0:04:43.676 thing that became the Ninja the Fiestaville. 0:04:43.916 --> 0:04:44.676 It is true. 0:04:44.996 --> 0:04:48.396 You could have been Shark Fiestaville instead of Shark Ninja. 0:04:48.476 --> 0:04:51.556 We could have been Shark Fiestaville. But you know, there 0:04:51.676 --> 0:04:55.076 was a you know, there was a retailer buyer that said, look, 0:04:55.116 --> 0:04:57.956 I love the product, but the name is a really 0:04:58.036 --> 0:05:00.756 dumb name. And they said, you know, go back and 0:05:00.836 --> 0:05:04.476 come up with something, you know, more more compelling. And 0:05:05.076 --> 0:05:07.996 we actually we looked at the blades. If you've ever 0:05:07.996 --> 0:05:10.196 seen a Ninja blender and you see the blades that 0:05:10.236 --> 0:05:12.236 go up, we kind of looked at them and it 0:05:12.276 --> 0:05:14.196 was like kind of when we were a kid, you know, 0:05:14.236 --> 0:05:16.236 you would take a Chinese star and you throw it 0:05:16.276 --> 0:05:18.996 against a tree or something and it would stick, and 0:05:19.236 --> 0:05:21.076 you know, literally, I think there was probably forty eight 0:05:21.116 --> 0:05:24.396 hours after that meeting where they told this Fiestaville was stupid, 0:05:25.436 --> 0:05:27.836 We said, how what about Ninja? 0:05:27.876 --> 0:05:29.956 And we socialized it and people said. 0:05:29.756 --> 0:05:32.516 Oh, you know Ninja, I don't know, Ninja maybe sounds 0:05:32.516 --> 0:05:33.636 like a dumb name as well. 0:05:34.236 --> 0:05:35.876 Look it ultimately proves to you. 0:05:35.916 --> 0:05:38.796 I mean, Ninja last year finished at a three point 0:05:38.836 --> 0:05:41.876 three billion dollar brand. We never acquired a dollar of 0:05:41.916 --> 0:05:43.676 revenue under the Ninja brand. 0:05:43.716 --> 0:05:46.916 So you've built this giant, multi billion dollar business. I 0:05:46.956 --> 0:05:50.156 read a recent interview with you where you said, you 0:05:50.196 --> 0:05:53.796 still feel like you're always losing. What's going on there. 0:05:54.796 --> 0:05:59.316 I mean, every day we're either gaining loyal consumers or 0:05:59.356 --> 0:06:03.476 we're losing frustrated consumers. And you know, I don't think 0:06:03.516 --> 0:06:06.556 that success is permanent. I also don't think that failure 0:06:06.916 --> 0:06:09.436 is permanent. I think failure is a temporary can condition, 0:06:09.916 --> 0:06:12.316 and I think success is a temporary condition. And I 0:06:12.356 --> 0:06:15.716 think that you earn the right to stay in business 0:06:15.756 --> 0:06:19.596 every day. You earn the right, you know, to generate 0:06:19.756 --> 0:06:23.676 revenue from the consumer's hard earned dollar every day. And 0:06:23.716 --> 0:06:25.636 I think that when I go into the office in 0:06:25.676 --> 0:06:27.676 the morning and I read a one star review about 0:06:27.676 --> 0:06:30.476 our products, I mean, it ruins my day. I mean 0:06:30.516 --> 0:06:33.036 it genuinely does. I mean, at the size of business 0:06:33.036 --> 0:06:35.116 that you are today, and if you get a five 0:06:35.196 --> 0:06:38.756 star review, it like puts wind at your sales. And 0:06:38.836 --> 0:06:41.916 so when I'm saying that I feel like we're losing, 0:06:42.836 --> 0:06:45.716 I feel like there's so much more that we can do. 0:06:46.636 --> 0:06:49.916 I want to talk about your product development process in 0:06:49.916 --> 0:06:51.756 a little bit more detail. And I thought it might 0:06:51.796 --> 0:06:55.156 be useful to talk about a specific product. And I 0:06:55.196 --> 0:06:58.316 wondered if we could do the Ninja Creamy the ice 0:06:58.316 --> 0:07:01.516 cream maker, because in part it seems not obvious like 0:07:02.156 --> 0:07:04.396 this seems like a case that the people of America 0:07:04.396 --> 0:07:07.276 were not clamoring for an ice cream maker to put 0:07:07.276 --> 0:07:09.596 on the counter. Where did that come from? And sort 0:07:09.636 --> 0:07:12.676 of step me through the process of actually making that 0:07:12.716 --> 0:07:13.636 turning it into a product. 0:07:13.716 --> 0:07:14.356 Okay. 0:07:14.436 --> 0:07:19.236 So look, product development is like getting little nuggets and 0:07:19.356 --> 0:07:22.476 insights and kind of trying to put all the pieces 0:07:22.516 --> 0:07:26.196 together to what we call create a mouse trap. Okay, 0:07:26.716 --> 0:07:29.036 and that mousetrap has to have. 0:07:29.116 --> 0:07:32.796 Wait, am I the mouse in that metaphorm in potentially potent? 0:07:32.956 --> 0:07:35.316 You're catching me when I buy your product. You might 0:07:35.316 --> 0:07:36.356 want to refixt that. 0:07:36.276 --> 0:07:38.836 And so the question is what is that? 0:07:38.956 --> 0:07:44.836 So we had ethnographic researchers in restaurants and we started 0:07:44.876 --> 0:07:49.716 looking at how do high end restaurants make ice cream? 0:07:49.716 --> 0:07:52.076 I mean they're just opening up a Ben and Jerry's 0:07:52.156 --> 0:07:54.476 thing and scooping it out. No, I mean they're actually 0:07:54.476 --> 0:07:59.876 making ice cream in very very expensive machines in these restaurants, 0:07:59.916 --> 0:08:03.276 and they're controlling the ingredients, and they're tweaking the ingredients 0:08:03.276 --> 0:08:04.316 and doing all these things. 0:08:04.556 --> 0:08:05.876 So that was one data point. 0:08:06.396 --> 0:08:09.316 There was a second data point where I I have 0:08:09.476 --> 0:08:13.156 two children that both have nut allergies, and you know, 0:08:13.476 --> 0:08:17.396 I have another child that has a dairy allergy, and 0:08:17.476 --> 0:08:21.836 so we felt like there was a whole market around 0:08:22.156 --> 0:08:25.236 people that would be willing in their home to kind 0:08:25.236 --> 0:08:28.956 of craft ice cream due to dietary restrictions or allergies 0:08:29.036 --> 0:08:32.436 or things like that. That's a second data point, okay, 0:08:32.476 --> 0:08:36.716 that we know. Third data point was that we know 0:08:37.236 --> 0:08:42.476 that consumers love doing things that kind of bring people together, 0:08:42.676 --> 0:08:46.436 bring families together, and so the ability for you to 0:08:46.436 --> 0:08:48.556 be able to make ice cream, you know, as a 0:08:48.556 --> 0:08:51.716 family is like an exciting thing, like everyone gets involved, 0:08:51.756 --> 0:08:54.716 and so there's like a communal aspect to it. So 0:08:54.796 --> 0:08:57.116 there's those three things that were coming together. 0:08:57.996 --> 0:09:00.196 Let me ask just before we got farther there. I mean, 0:09:00.236 --> 0:09:04.476 you mentioned there was an expensive restaurant machine, right, Is 0:09:04.476 --> 0:09:06.556 it right that part of the story is like it 0:09:06.716 --> 0:09:09.436 was going off patent, they had some particular intellectual property 0:09:09.476 --> 0:09:11.956 in it was going into the public domain. Is that right? 0:09:12.076 --> 0:09:15.396 There's lots of machines out there that you can buy 0:09:15.476 --> 0:09:16.156 in restaurants. 0:09:16.196 --> 0:09:17.956 I mean the point was, yes. 0:09:17.836 --> 0:09:20.836 What there was not some intellectual property opportunity that was 0:09:20.876 --> 0:09:21.396 some part of this. 0:09:21.596 --> 0:09:23.796 No, in fact, in fact that Ninja Creamy has a 0:09:23.836 --> 0:09:28.436 lot of intellectual property within it. But it was it 0:09:28.476 --> 0:09:32.076 was how is something made outside of the home that 0:09:32.196 --> 0:09:34.876 tastes so great that the consumers not able to do 0:09:34.916 --> 0:09:37.956 it inside of the home. Now here's something very interesting 0:09:37.996 --> 0:09:42.116 for you to know. It was never the idea of 0:09:42.196 --> 0:09:46.036 Shark Ninja to develop protein ice cream, Like we created 0:09:46.036 --> 0:09:46.796 this hardware. 0:09:47.156 --> 0:09:48.916 Okay, this Ninja creamy product. 0:09:48.916 --> 0:09:51.436 Well wait before protein ice cream is like the end 0:09:51.436 --> 0:09:53.036 of the story, right, I feel like there's a few 0:09:53.076 --> 0:09:55.036 more things that have to happen first. Like one is, 0:09:55.036 --> 0:09:58.556 you have to figure out how to turn the eight 0:09:58.636 --> 0:10:03.316 thousand dollars restaurant machine into a two hundred dollars machine. Right, 0:10:03.556 --> 0:10:04.276 how do you do that? 0:10:04.756 --> 0:10:07.916 First of all, we start with a target price of 0:10:07.956 --> 0:10:10.356 what we we'd love to sa sell it. Now, sometimes 0:10:10.356 --> 0:10:13.196 that target price is you know, complete pie in the 0:10:13.276 --> 0:10:15.916 sky where we go to the engineers and we'd say, 0:10:16.156 --> 0:10:18.156 we'd love to be able to sell this product for 0:10:18.196 --> 0:10:21.676 one hundred and ninety nine dollars. And after the engineers, 0:10:21.796 --> 0:10:23.676 you know, get back off the floor and tell you 0:10:23.716 --> 0:10:26.276 how dumb you are, because you know the motor is 0:10:26.276 --> 0:10:28.316 going to cost this and the PCBA is going to 0:10:28.396 --> 0:10:31.036 cost this. In the ways we say okay, like let's 0:10:31.076 --> 0:10:35.236 now start figuring it out, like how large could the 0:10:35.276 --> 0:10:38.356 size of the pint be? You know, in order to 0:10:38.396 --> 0:10:41.116 be able to kind of control all these variables. Product 0:10:41.116 --> 0:10:47.716 development is about managing all of these different you know, requirements. 0:10:48.316 --> 0:10:52.436 It's not about developing the best product always. It's about 0:10:52.436 --> 0:10:55.396 that trade off, its tradeoffs, and it's about developing the 0:10:55.436 --> 0:10:58.996 best performance at the best quality, at the best value, 0:10:59.316 --> 0:11:03.356 and it's the combination of those things. Sometimes product development 0:11:03.396 --> 0:11:06.596 is actually a vanity exercise. There are times where I 0:11:06.716 --> 0:11:09.396 go on to Kickstarter and I look at a product 0:11:09.996 --> 0:11:13.876 and the product is amazing, Okay, is it is incredible 0:11:13.916 --> 0:11:14.516 what they've done. 0:11:15.316 --> 0:11:16.236 And then you look. 0:11:16.036 --> 0:11:19.596 At the price tag and you're like it's eighteen hundred dollars. Yeah, 0:11:19.676 --> 0:11:22.716 and you're like, listen, for eighteen hundred dollars, you're dealing 0:11:22.716 --> 0:11:26.196 with such a small of a small consumer base. So 0:11:26.476 --> 0:11:29.356 going back to the creamy example, we had to sit 0:11:29.436 --> 0:11:33.236 there and for literally months and months it was trade 0:11:33.276 --> 0:11:34.396 off conversations. 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:37.076 My understanding. So it comes out in twenty twenty one 0:11:37.196 --> 0:11:40.196 in the pandemic, you have this thesis about everybody's home 0:11:40.236 --> 0:11:43.076 and cooking, which was correct, but it doesn't seem like 0:11:43.116 --> 0:11:45.436 the Creamy really took off when it came out. 0:11:45.636 --> 0:11:49.236 Yes, and we started in the second half of twenty 0:11:49.356 --> 0:11:53.556 twenty two focusing it much more on social media. We 0:11:54.196 --> 0:11:56.476 started seeding it to lots of people. 0:11:57.036 --> 0:11:59.116 This is your marketing strategy, right, This is a good 0:11:59.116 --> 0:12:01.596 time to talk about that. Like you guys do as 0:12:01.676 --> 0:12:05.556 much creator marketing as let's say, anybody to a first approximation, right, 0:12:06.036 --> 0:12:07.756 tell me about what you did with the Creamy and 0:12:07.796 --> 0:12:10.796 how that sort of reflects more broadly the way you 0:12:11.196 --> 0:12:13.756 do creator marketing and social media marketing. 0:12:13.796 --> 0:12:18.396 Well, let's start with the end result is to have 0:12:18.756 --> 0:12:21.236 consumer organic flywheel going. 0:12:21.756 --> 0:12:22.756 That's the end results. 0:12:23.236 --> 0:12:25.596 You don't have to keep paying creators forever for a 0:12:25.596 --> 0:12:26.396 given produmt No. 0:12:26.796 --> 0:12:30.796 And by the way, it becomes so authentic when thousands 0:12:30.796 --> 0:12:34.236 of consumers are sharing their insights and are sharing their 0:12:34.236 --> 0:12:38.316 best recipes. But you have to light the organic flywheel. 0:12:38.316 --> 0:12:43.436 And so you light the organic flywheel by getting creators, chefs, 0:12:43.956 --> 0:12:48.276 other key opinion leaders that are doing things with the 0:12:48.356 --> 0:12:52.836 product to start to spur excitement. Now, fortunately for us, 0:12:53.156 --> 0:12:56.236 by the time that started in the second half of 0:12:56.276 --> 0:12:59.796 twenty twenty two, we already had lots of units. 0:12:59.516 --> 0:13:00.396 Out in the market. 0:13:00.876 --> 0:13:04.956 So we started investing tremendously at that point in social 0:13:05.036 --> 0:13:10.116 media influencers, social media marketing, and by Christmas of twenty 0:13:10.156 --> 0:13:14.556 twenty two, that started activating the people that had bought 0:13:14.636 --> 0:13:16.836 the product. At the end of twenty twenty one and 0:13:16.876 --> 0:13:18.076 into twenty twenty. 0:13:17.756 --> 0:13:20.996 Two, activating mean it got them to start. 0:13:20.716 --> 0:13:28.356 Posting exactly, sharing recipes, posting, troubleshooting, unboxing. 0:13:28.556 --> 0:13:30.156 Unboxing is a really exciting thing. 0:13:30.156 --> 0:13:34.196 I mean, people, there's a whole cottage industry of influencers 0:13:34.236 --> 0:13:36.476 that just go on and do that. We don't pay 0:13:36.796 --> 0:13:39.036 that just do unboxing of our products. 0:13:39.276 --> 0:13:41.196 Just to make this clear, this is literally people who 0:13:41.316 --> 0:13:43.636 open products and take them out of the box and 0:13:43.676 --> 0:13:46.556 that's the video. I will say, I love returning things. 0:13:46.596 --> 0:13:49.556 I have dreamed of making reboxing videos for other dads 0:13:49.596 --> 0:13:51.556 who love returning things, but I haven't done it. 0:13:51.796 --> 0:13:55.076 And on the unboxing it's like going through first use, 0:13:55.236 --> 0:13:57.676 like getting the consumer all the way through the unboxing 0:13:57.716 --> 0:14:00.596 process to the first use. As we got into twenty 0:14:00.636 --> 0:14:04.756 twenty three again that started accelerating. I mean, we started 0:14:04.796 --> 0:14:08.316 finding more and more use cases. The beginning of twenty 0:14:08.356 --> 0:14:12.996 twenty three is when protein ice cream really started so. 0:14:13.116 --> 0:14:15.956 Was it protein ice cream that really sent the creamy 0:14:15.996 --> 0:14:17.356 through the roof with that? What did it? 0:14:17.796 --> 0:14:21.076 Protein ice cream was a huge catalyst of being able 0:14:21.116 --> 0:14:24.396 to do it. And what protein ice cream did was 0:14:24.476 --> 0:14:29.116 it started this massive creator group of just developing their 0:14:29.116 --> 0:14:33.676 own ideas. There are you know, influencers that have channels 0:14:33.716 --> 0:14:34.916 of just will it creamy? 0:14:35.476 --> 0:14:37.476 And are you still putting money into it at this 0:14:37.516 --> 0:14:39.276 point when this is happening. Are you like seeing this 0:14:39.356 --> 0:14:40.676 and be like, oh, yeah, let's put a lot of 0:14:40.676 --> 0:14:42.396 money into protein ice cream. 0:14:42.556 --> 0:14:44.956 So we were putting a lot of money into it 0:14:44.996 --> 0:14:48.876 in twenty twenty three. Okay, here's the interesting thing that 0:14:49.036 --> 0:14:51.556 turned and it turned on us, I would say the 0:14:51.596 --> 0:14:54.916 second half of twenty four where there was so much 0:14:55.196 --> 0:14:59.356 organic content being developed that we no longer had to 0:14:59.396 --> 0:15:01.796 put our own marketing money behind it. 0:15:02.116 --> 0:15:05.916 Yeah, I have my own creamy journey and we booked 0:15:05.956 --> 0:15:08.796 you before this happened. So it's just a coincidence. First 0:15:08.796 --> 0:15:14.436 of all, you're starting the viral marketing flywheel. Worked on 0:15:14.476 --> 0:15:18.276 my teenage daughters who know everything they know from TikTok. 0:15:18.596 --> 0:15:22.676 They asked for a creamy for Christmas. It's great, we 0:15:22.716 --> 0:15:28.956 made gelato together. Your dream come true, and then it broke. Wow, Yeah, 0:15:28.996 --> 0:15:31.116 it just broke. It just broke. Do you want to 0:15:31.156 --> 0:15:32.116 guess how it broke? 0:15:33.036 --> 0:15:34.836 Tell me, I'm anxious to hear. 0:15:35.356 --> 0:15:39.276 Okay, my daughter, I think she put the bowl in wrong. 0:15:39.436 --> 0:15:41.076 I mean, she's a teenager. I don't feel like I had. 0:15:41.156 --> 0:15:44.556 But there's an interesting question to me, which is to 0:15:44.596 --> 0:15:46.676 what extent I guess to some extent it's my fault 0:15:46.676 --> 0:15:49.036 because I'm the dad or whatever. To what extent is 0:15:49.036 --> 0:15:50.796 that my fault? To what extent is that my daughter's fault? 0:15:50.916 --> 0:15:52.876 And to what extent is it your fault? Because it like, 0:15:53.116 --> 0:15:54.996 it's not like we dropped it. It was not like 0:15:55.036 --> 0:15:58.436 a gratuitous thing, and like it seems like it was 0:15:58.556 --> 0:15:59.756 kind of easy to break it. 0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:04.916 Frankly, Well, here's what I would say, Like it's all 0:16:04.996 --> 0:16:05.756 my fault. 0:16:06.036 --> 0:16:07.956 Okay, I mean I'm not saying that. 0:16:08.036 --> 0:16:11.916 I'm truly not no, no, because listen, I mean, if 0:16:11.956 --> 0:16:15.476 we understand now, like what your daughter did in terms 0:16:15.516 --> 0:16:17.596 of you know, maybe she pushed it in the wrong 0:16:17.636 --> 0:16:19.916 way and maybe you know, she got some resistance and 0:16:19.956 --> 0:16:20.796 she overshot it. 0:16:20.796 --> 0:16:22.796 It's clearly a mistake other people have made. 0:16:22.916 --> 0:16:25.516 Okay, And you know what I would say, is that like, 0:16:25.956 --> 0:16:28.876 from the time we develop a product, as we're getting 0:16:28.916 --> 0:16:34.036 consumer feedback on the product, that product is evolving and changing. Okay, 0:16:34.076 --> 0:16:37.796 we're making constant upgrades to those products. Now, I'll give 0:16:37.836 --> 0:16:40.196 you a good example. When we came out with our 0:16:40.236 --> 0:16:45.756 first blender, we drop spoons and forks into the blender 0:16:46.196 --> 0:16:48.556 and to make sure that like that wasn't going to 0:16:48.596 --> 0:16:51.276 break the blender, because you know what, something could slip 0:16:51.276 --> 0:16:53.356 out of somebody's hand and it goes into there. And 0:16:53.556 --> 0:16:57.836 from a reliability standpoint, the product should be able to 0:16:57.916 --> 0:17:00.436 stand up to kind of what we call. 0:17:00.356 --> 0:17:04.156 Like reasonable consumer abuse. Okay, now I don't know what 0:17:04.196 --> 0:17:05.876 your your daughter did was reasonable. 0:17:05.556 --> 0:17:08.076 Consumer it was reasonable. I think it was reasonable. The 0:17:08.156 --> 0:17:10.716 bull get stuck seems like a thing. Although I will say, 0:17:11.076 --> 0:17:12.876 let me say the end of this, I'd actually not 0:17:12.956 --> 0:17:14.596 dealt with it, because of course you don't deal with 0:17:14.636 --> 0:17:16.876 it whatever. And I was like, oh, I'm interviewing the 0:17:16.916 --> 0:17:18.796 guy this week. I better deal with it and see 0:17:18.796 --> 0:17:22.876 what happens. And so a couple of days ago, I whatever, 0:17:22.916 --> 0:17:24.516 I filled out that just the thing online and it 0:17:24.556 --> 0:17:25.916 was a Christmas gift and like we didn't have the 0:17:25.996 --> 0:17:27.036 receipt and I was like, oh, it's gonna be a 0:17:27.036 --> 0:17:29.196 pain of this. It actually was good, at least so far. 0:17:29.276 --> 0:17:31.596 I went online a few hours later later that night 0:17:31.636 --> 0:17:34.956 somebody was like, Okay, send us a picture of these things, 0:17:35.676 --> 0:17:37.396 and I did that and they're like, okay, we're gonna 0:17:37.396 --> 0:17:38.836 send you a new one. So, as far as I know, 0:17:38.876 --> 0:17:41.756 a new one is on the way. And actually my 0:17:41.836 --> 0:17:43.676 other daughter, not the one who cause I broke it, 0:17:43.716 --> 0:17:45.596 she was like, wow, you got to tell the guy. 0:17:45.636 --> 0:17:48.836 It's great. So I think a reasonable resolution. 0:17:49.116 --> 0:17:51.076 But look, it goes to the example of what I 0:17:51.076 --> 0:17:52.996 said to you in the beginning about winning and losing, 0:17:53.116 --> 0:17:57.076 like you had an experience, and regardless of whether it's 0:17:57.076 --> 0:17:59.836 your fault or it's our fault, you know, I want 0:17:59.876 --> 0:18:01.156 you as a consumer for life. 0:18:01.436 --> 0:18:03.716 Yeah, it would be better if it hadn't broke, right, Like, 0:18:03.716 --> 0:18:05.276 there are lots of other things where you got to 0:18:05.276 --> 0:18:07.036 put the bull in right, But if you put the 0:18:07.036 --> 0:18:09.476 bull in wrong, it just doesn't turn on. It's not 0:18:09.596 --> 0:18:12.916 like broken and stuck forever right. Right, Although presumably this 0:18:12.956 --> 0:18:15.196 is one of your trade offs. I imagine the engineers 0:18:15.196 --> 0:18:17.476 were like, oh, we could fix this, but it would 0:18:17.476 --> 0:18:19.756 add twenty dollars to the cost or something, and not 0:18:19.836 --> 0:18:21.636 to say that you should have chosen the other trade 0:18:21.636 --> 0:18:23.996 offf to be clear, I'm not I don't know, but 0:18:24.116 --> 0:18:26.516 I imagine they knew that it could break in this 0:18:26.596 --> 0:18:28.556 way and they couldn't fix it, or they couldn't fix 0:18:28.596 --> 0:18:30.516 it at a reasonable price or without lowering the quality 0:18:30.596 --> 0:18:32.036 or something right in the. 0:18:32.076 --> 0:18:34.876 End, I mean, And I'm sure that the person who 0:18:34.956 --> 0:18:37.556 you randomly sent this in didn't know that you and 0:18:37.596 --> 0:18:38.316 I were speaking. 0:18:39.076 --> 0:18:41.996 No, absolutely that I didn't tell them, no, of course not. 0:18:42.116 --> 0:18:45.196 And so the fact that they made it right, you know, 0:18:45.396 --> 0:18:48.476 kind of lives up to our positively impacting people's life. 0:18:49.076 --> 0:18:51.436 The breaking was worse than an expected, but the resolution 0:18:51.716 --> 0:18:53.436 was better than I expected, and the ice cream is 0:18:53.476 --> 0:18:55.076 quite good. Like, we'll get a new one and we'll 0:18:55.116 --> 0:18:55.916 make more ice cream. 0:18:55.996 --> 0:18:59.276 And my hope is that your daughter is like, hey, 0:18:59.876 --> 0:19:01.996 like the Ninja brand really stood by. 0:19:01.916 --> 0:19:08.516 It still to come on the show what Shark Ninja learned? 0:19:08.596 --> 0:19:12.316 When they say their employees into ordinary people's houses to 0:19:12.396 --> 0:19:23.876 watch them vacuum. Tell me about the ethnographic research that 0:19:23.956 --> 0:19:26.516 you do, like, in particular, who are the people who 0:19:26.556 --> 0:19:29.516 do it, what's their background and sort of why are 0:19:29.516 --> 0:19:31.116 they particularly good at their jobs. 0:19:32.396 --> 0:19:32.756 Yeah. 0:19:32.796 --> 0:19:36.036 So you know, Steve Jobs always had you know, a 0:19:36.116 --> 0:19:37.956 famous line right of like you know. 0:19:37.956 --> 0:19:39.316 You wouldn't do focus groups. 0:19:39.316 --> 0:19:41.276 And I don't think it's really a question of like 0:19:41.396 --> 0:19:45.156 not doing focus groups. I think that the consumer doesn't 0:19:45.196 --> 0:19:50.276 know what's possible, right, They just know the world that 0:19:50.396 --> 0:19:51.276 exists with them. 0:19:51.356 --> 0:19:54.196 So when we go into one hundred consumer homes. 0:19:54.236 --> 0:19:58.356 And we watch them vacuum, and eight of those consumers 0:19:58.396 --> 0:20:01.916 turn the vacuum over, take a knife or a razor blade, 0:20:02.316 --> 0:20:05.636 slice the hair off the brush, roll, pull the hair out, 0:20:05.756 --> 0:20:07.316 throw it in the garbage, and at the end of 0:20:07.316 --> 0:20:09.956 the cleaning session, we say, is there anything you do 0:20:10.156 --> 0:20:11.436 to improve your vacuum? 0:20:11.756 --> 0:20:13.596 They say, no, I think it works great. 0:20:13.756 --> 0:20:16.316 And we said, well, what about when you nearly sliced 0:20:16.356 --> 0:20:18.636 your hand off and you pulled the hair out, And 0:20:18.756 --> 0:20:22.276 they start apologizing for it. They start saying, oh, we 0:20:22.356 --> 0:20:25.196