1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:26,796 --> 00:00:29,316 Speaker 2: I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this is what's your problem. My 3 00:00:29,396 --> 00:00:33,676 Speaker 2: guest today is Mark Barochus. He's the CEO of Shark Ninja. 4 00:00:34,236 --> 00:00:36,676 Speaker 2: When Mark started at the company in two thousand and eight, 5 00:00:36,836 --> 00:00:42,036 Speaker 2: they sold a mop and a cordless sweeper, largely via infomercial. Today, 6 00:00:42,476 --> 00:00:46,716 Speaker 2: Shark Ninja sells six billion dollars worth of stuff every year, 7 00:00:47,316 --> 00:00:50,636 Speaker 2: mops and vacuum cleaners, but also ice cream makers and 8 00:00:50,796 --> 00:00:53,956 Speaker 2: air fryers and blenders and hair dryers and this thing 9 00:00:53,996 --> 00:00:56,476 Speaker 2: that's supposedly good for your skin and has lights on 10 00:00:56,516 --> 00:00:58,236 Speaker 2: it and you put it on your face and it 11 00:00:58,276 --> 00:01:00,996 Speaker 2: makes you look like a Lucha Libre wrestler. What I'm 12 00:01:01,036 --> 00:01:04,556 Speaker 2: saying is they sell everything now, and they sell it everywhere. 13 00:01:05,076 --> 00:01:08,236 Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to Mark because Shark Ninja is 14 00:01:08,316 --> 00:01:11,916 Speaker 2: an innovative company, not in the frontiers of science sense, 15 00:01:12,316 --> 00:01:14,596 Speaker 2: but in the making a blender that does something you've 16 00:01:14,636 --> 00:01:16,516 Speaker 2: never been able to do at home before with a 17 00:01:16,516 --> 00:01:20,876 Speaker 2: blender since also in the designing products to go viral 18 00:01:20,916 --> 00:01:24,516 Speaker 2: on social media sense. As our editor said, Shark Ninja 19 00:01:24,596 --> 00:01:27,636 Speaker 2: is like Bell Labs for stuff nobody really needs but 20 00:01:27,836 --> 00:01:30,996 Speaker 2: lots of people clearly want, and so there is a 21 00:01:30,996 --> 00:01:34,236 Speaker 2: lot to learn from the company. In our conversation, Mark 22 00:01:34,276 --> 00:01:37,036 Speaker 2: and I talked about how the company develops new products, 23 00:01:37,476 --> 00:01:40,596 Speaker 2: the trade offs it makes between engineering the perfect product 24 00:01:40,676 --> 00:01:43,596 Speaker 2: and the good enough product at the right price, and 25 00:01:44,156 --> 00:01:48,516 Speaker 2: why the secret to going viral is Schmutz. To start, 26 00:01:48,796 --> 00:01:51,876 Speaker 2: I asked Mark to tell me about the company's first big, 27 00:01:52,196 --> 00:01:55,956 Speaker 2: non obvious leap from selling mops to selling a new 28 00:01:56,036 --> 00:01:56,716 Speaker 2: kind of blender. 29 00:01:57,236 --> 00:02:00,436 Speaker 3: We looked at the blender market and we said, you know, 30 00:02:00,516 --> 00:02:04,076 Speaker 3: what do consumers want to do with blenders. Well, in 31 00:02:04,116 --> 00:02:07,436 Speaker 3: their home they were doing one thing. But outside their home, 32 00:02:07,596 --> 00:02:11,716 Speaker 3: American consumers want to frozen drinks. And you'd go to 33 00:02:11,756 --> 00:02:14,876 Speaker 3: these Mexican restaurants and you'd get a frozen margarita and 34 00:02:14,876 --> 00:02:17,876 Speaker 3: they'd be done in these kind of professional, big blenders, 35 00:02:18,396 --> 00:02:20,356 Speaker 3: and you'd get home and you try to make it, 36 00:02:20,516 --> 00:02:23,076 Speaker 3: and a blender had blades that were on the bottom, 37 00:02:23,876 --> 00:02:26,636 Speaker 3: and so you'd put the ice into the blender and 38 00:02:26,716 --> 00:02:28,916 Speaker 3: the ice would just jump up because we'd never get 39 00:02:28,956 --> 00:02:30,996 Speaker 3: to the blades. And then so you'd add more liquid 40 00:02:31,036 --> 00:02:32,916 Speaker 3: and add more liquid, and by the time you added 41 00:02:32,956 --> 00:02:35,436 Speaker 3: a whole bunch of liquid, you no longer had a 42 00:02:35,436 --> 00:02:38,276 Speaker 3: frozen drink. You had this kind of cold, watery drink. 43 00:02:38,916 --> 00:02:41,356 Speaker 3: And so we said, well, hold on, if this is 44 00:02:41,396 --> 00:02:44,556 Speaker 3: what consumers want, we have to solve the problem of 45 00:02:44,636 --> 00:02:49,076 Speaker 3: making restaurant quality frozen drinks. And we said, why are 46 00:02:49,076 --> 00:02:51,796 Speaker 3: the blades on the bottom, Why don't the blades go 47 00:02:51,916 --> 00:02:54,836 Speaker 3: up the top. And if the blades go up the top, 48 00:02:55,236 --> 00:02:56,876 Speaker 3: you can put a whole bunch of ice in it. 49 00:02:56,996 --> 00:03:00,636 Speaker 3: You can turn the ice to snow. And we ultimately, 50 00:03:01,196 --> 00:03:05,676 Speaker 3: you know, developed this technology and we would buy bags 51 00:03:05,716 --> 00:03:10,036 Speaker 3: of ice in gas stations and we'd walk into the 52 00:03:10,076 --> 00:03:13,156 Speaker 3: Walmart buyer and we would fill the ice to the 53 00:03:13,156 --> 00:03:16,636 Speaker 3: top of the picture. We'd put the blade inside and 54 00:03:16,676 --> 00:03:19,156 Speaker 3: we turned the ice to snow and we'd pour the 55 00:03:19,196 --> 00:03:22,076 Speaker 3: picture of snow onto the table and we'd say, look 56 00:03:22,076 --> 00:03:25,276 Speaker 3: at this fuel, this consistency. Well, the buyer thought we 57 00:03:25,276 --> 00:03:27,996 Speaker 3: were crazy at the time, but that was the secret 58 00:03:28,196 --> 00:03:32,796 Speaker 3: ingredient to making these creamy, restaurant quality frozen drinks. And 59 00:03:32,876 --> 00:03:35,356 Speaker 3: so when we went out and the first time we 60 00:03:35,476 --> 00:03:38,196 Speaker 3: launched this Ninja Master Prep was in two thousand and 61 00:03:38,276 --> 00:03:42,916 Speaker 3: nine on QVC and instantly it sold out. One day, 62 00:03:42,996 --> 00:03:45,796 Speaker 3: we sold like forty thousand units in one day. 63 00:03:45,916 --> 00:03:47,236 Speaker 1: Was the biggest success we had. 64 00:03:47,196 --> 00:03:50,476 Speaker 3: Ever had one day in the company's history, and what 65 00:03:50,516 --> 00:03:53,916 Speaker 3: it was was that the minute we did these demonstrations, 66 00:03:54,076 --> 00:03:57,876 Speaker 3: consumers immediately said, not wow, I've never heard of this 67 00:03:57,956 --> 00:04:01,596 Speaker 3: brand Ninja, you know, or oh, what an interesting blender. 68 00:04:01,916 --> 00:04:05,796 Speaker 3: What they said is they solved my problem. They solved 69 00:04:05,836 --> 00:04:09,036 Speaker 3: my problem. That's what I want to do with a blender. Well, 70 00:04:09,476 --> 00:04:13,556 Speaker 3: that is everything that Shark Ninja stands for today. That 71 00:04:13,636 --> 00:04:17,636 Speaker 3: when the consumer sees what we've developed, whether it's a fan, 72 00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:21,036 Speaker 3: whether it's an air fryer, whether it's an outdoor grill, 73 00:04:21,156 --> 00:04:24,076 Speaker 3: whether it's a skincare mask, whether it's a hairstyle, or 74 00:04:24,076 --> 00:04:26,716 Speaker 3: whether it's a vacuum, what we want is for the 75 00:04:26,716 --> 00:04:30,476 Speaker 3: consumer to look at the product and say, they solved 76 00:04:30,556 --> 00:04:31,276 Speaker 3: my problem. 77 00:04:31,636 --> 00:04:35,196 Speaker 2: I know your partner did infomercials. Did you ever do infomercials? 78 00:04:35,196 --> 00:04:37,756 Speaker 2: Because I suddenly feel like I'm watching an infomercial. 79 00:04:37,916 --> 00:04:39,356 Speaker 1: I did not do infomercials. 80 00:04:39,756 --> 00:04:41,356 Speaker 2: Is it true that you were going to call the 81 00:04:41,396 --> 00:04:43,676 Speaker 2: thing that became the Ninja the Fiestaville. 82 00:04:43,916 --> 00:04:44,676 Speaker 1: It is true. 83 00:04:44,996 --> 00:04:48,396 Speaker 2: You could have been Shark Fiestaville instead of Shark Ninja. 84 00:04:48,476 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 3: We could have been Shark Fiestaville. But you know, there 85 00:04:51,676 --> 00:04:55,076 Speaker 3: was a you know, there was a retailer buyer that said, look, 86 00:04:55,116 --> 00:04:57,956 Speaker 3: I love the product, but the name is a really 87 00:04:58,036 --> 00:05:00,756 Speaker 3: dumb name. And they said, you know, go back and 88 00:05:00,836 --> 00:05:04,476 Speaker 3: come up with something, you know, more more compelling. And 89 00:05:05,076 --> 00:05:07,996 Speaker 3: we actually we looked at the blades. If you've ever 90 00:05:07,996 --> 00:05:10,196 Speaker 3: seen a Ninja blender and you see the blades that 91 00:05:10,236 --> 00:05:12,236 Speaker 3: go up, we kind of looked at them and it 92 00:05:12,276 --> 00:05:14,196 Speaker 3: was like kind of when we were a kid, you know, 93 00:05:14,236 --> 00:05:16,236 Speaker 3: you would take a Chinese star and you throw it 94 00:05:16,276 --> 00:05:18,996 Speaker 3: against a tree or something and it would stick, and 95 00:05:19,236 --> 00:05:21,076 Speaker 3: you know, literally, I think there was probably forty eight 96 00:05:21,116 --> 00:05:24,396 Speaker 3: hours after that meeting where they told this Fiestaville was stupid, 97 00:05:25,436 --> 00:05:27,836 Speaker 3: We said, how what about Ninja? 98 00:05:27,876 --> 00:05:29,956 Speaker 1: And we socialized it and people said. 99 00:05:29,756 --> 00:05:32,516 Speaker 3: Oh, you know Ninja, I don't know, Ninja maybe sounds 100 00:05:32,516 --> 00:05:33,636 Speaker 3: like a dumb name as well. 101 00:05:34,236 --> 00:05:35,876 Speaker 1: Look it ultimately proves to you. 102 00:05:35,916 --> 00:05:38,796 Speaker 3: I mean, Ninja last year finished at a three point 103 00:05:38,836 --> 00:05:41,876 Speaker 3: three billion dollar brand. We never acquired a dollar of 104 00:05:41,916 --> 00:05:43,676 Speaker 3: revenue under the Ninja brand. 105 00:05:43,716 --> 00:05:46,916 Speaker 2: So you've built this giant, multi billion dollar business. I 106 00:05:46,956 --> 00:05:50,156 Speaker 2: read a recent interview with you where you said, you 107 00:05:50,196 --> 00:05:53,796 Speaker 2: still feel like you're always losing. What's going on there. 108 00:05:54,796 --> 00:05:59,316 Speaker 3: I mean, every day we're either gaining loyal consumers or 109 00:05:59,356 --> 00:06:03,476 Speaker 3: we're losing frustrated consumers. And you know, I don't think 110 00:06:03,516 --> 00:06:06,556 Speaker 3: that success is permanent. I also don't think that failure 111 00:06:06,916 --> 00:06:09,436 Speaker 3: is permanent. I think failure is a temporary can condition, 112 00:06:09,916 --> 00:06:12,316 Speaker 3: and I think success is a temporary condition. And I 113 00:06:12,356 --> 00:06:15,716 Speaker 3: think that you earn the right to stay in business 114 00:06:15,756 --> 00:06:19,596 Speaker 3: every day. You earn the right, you know, to generate 115 00:06:19,756 --> 00:06:23,676 Speaker 3: revenue from the consumer's hard earned dollar every day. And 116 00:06:23,716 --> 00:06:25,636 Speaker 3: I think that when I go into the office in 117 00:06:25,676 --> 00:06:27,676 Speaker 3: the morning and I read a one star review about 118 00:06:27,676 --> 00:06:30,476 Speaker 3: our products, I mean, it ruins my day. I mean 119 00:06:30,516 --> 00:06:33,036 Speaker 3: it genuinely does. I mean, at the size of business 120 00:06:33,036 --> 00:06:35,116 Speaker 3: that you are today, and if you get a five 121 00:06:35,196 --> 00:06:38,756 Speaker 3: star review, it like puts wind at your sales. And 122 00:06:38,836 --> 00:06:41,916 Speaker 3: so when I'm saying that I feel like we're losing, 123 00:06:42,836 --> 00:06:45,716 Speaker 3: I feel like there's so much more that we can do. 124 00:06:46,636 --> 00:06:49,916 Speaker 2: I want to talk about your product development process in 125 00:06:49,916 --> 00:06:51,756 Speaker 2: a little bit more detail. And I thought it might 126 00:06:51,796 --> 00:06:55,156 Speaker 2: be useful to talk about a specific product. And I 127 00:06:55,196 --> 00:06:58,316 Speaker 2: wondered if we could do the Ninja Creamy the ice 128 00:06:58,316 --> 00:07:01,516 Speaker 2: cream maker, because in part it seems not obvious like 129 00:07:02,156 --> 00:07:04,396 Speaker 2: this seems like a case that the people of America 130 00:07:04,396 --> 00:07:07,276 Speaker 2: were not clamoring for an ice cream maker to put 131 00:07:07,276 --> 00:07:09,596 Speaker 2: on the counter. Where did that come from? And sort 132 00:07:09,636 --> 00:07:12,676 Speaker 2: of step me through the process of actually making that 133 00:07:12,716 --> 00:07:13,636 Speaker 2: turning it into a product. 134 00:07:13,716 --> 00:07:14,356 Speaker 1: Okay. 135 00:07:14,436 --> 00:07:19,236 Speaker 3: So look, product development is like getting little nuggets and 136 00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:22,476 Speaker 3: insights and kind of trying to put all the pieces 137 00:07:22,516 --> 00:07:26,196 Speaker 3: together to what we call create a mouse trap. Okay, 138 00:07:26,716 --> 00:07:29,036 Speaker 3: and that mousetrap has to have. 139 00:07:29,116 --> 00:07:32,796 Speaker 2: Wait, am I the mouse in that metaphorm in potentially potent? 140 00:07:32,956 --> 00:07:35,316 Speaker 2: You're catching me when I buy your product. You might 141 00:07:35,316 --> 00:07:36,356 Speaker 2: want to refixt that. 142 00:07:36,276 --> 00:07:38,836 Speaker 1: And so the question is what is that? 143 00:07:38,956 --> 00:07:44,836 Speaker 3: So we had ethnographic researchers in restaurants and we started 144 00:07:44,876 --> 00:07:49,716 Speaker 3: looking at how do high end restaurants make ice cream? 145 00:07:49,716 --> 00:07:52,076 Speaker 3: I mean they're just opening up a Ben and Jerry's 146 00:07:52,156 --> 00:07:54,476 Speaker 3: thing and scooping it out. No, I mean they're actually 147 00:07:54,476 --> 00:07:59,876 Speaker 3: making ice cream in very very expensive machines in these restaurants, 148 00:07:59,916 --> 00:08:03,276 Speaker 3: and they're controlling the ingredients, and they're tweaking the ingredients 149 00:08:03,276 --> 00:08:04,316 Speaker 3: and doing all these things. 150 00:08:04,556 --> 00:08:05,876 Speaker 1: So that was one data point. 151 00:08:06,396 --> 00:08:09,316 Speaker 3: There was a second data point where I I have 152 00:08:09,476 --> 00:08:13,156 Speaker 3: two children that both have nut allergies, and you know, 153 00:08:13,476 --> 00:08:17,396 Speaker 3: I have another child that has a dairy allergy, and 154 00:08:17,476 --> 00:08:21,836 Speaker 3: so we felt like there was a whole market around 155 00:08:22,156 --> 00:08:25,236 Speaker 3: people that would be willing in their home to kind 156 00:08:25,236 --> 00:08:28,956 Speaker 3: of craft ice cream due to dietary restrictions or allergies 157 00:08:29,036 --> 00:08:32,436 Speaker 3: or things like that. That's a second data point, okay, 158 00:08:32,476 --> 00:08:36,716 Speaker 3: that we know. Third data point was that we know 159 00:08:37,236 --> 00:08:42,476 Speaker 3: that consumers love doing things that kind of bring people together, 160 00:08:42,676 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 3: bring families together, and so the ability for you to 161 00:08:46,436 --> 00:08:48,556 Speaker 3: be able to make ice cream, you know, as a 162 00:08:48,556 --> 00:08:51,716 Speaker 3: family is like an exciting thing, like everyone gets involved, 163 00:08:51,756 --> 00:08:54,716 Speaker 3: and so there's like a communal aspect to it. So 164 00:08:54,796 --> 00:08:57,116 Speaker 3: there's those three things that were coming together. 165 00:08:57,996 --> 00:09:00,196 Speaker 2: Let me ask just before we got farther there. I mean, 166 00:09:00,236 --> 00:09:04,476 Speaker 2: you mentioned there was an expensive restaurant machine, right, Is 167 00:09:04,476 --> 00:09:06,556 Speaker 2: it right that part of the story is like it 168 00:09:06,716 --> 00:09:09,436 Speaker 2: was going off patent, they had some particular intellectual property 169 00:09:09,476 --> 00:09:11,956 Speaker 2: in it was going into the public domain. Is that right? 170 00:09:12,076 --> 00:09:15,396 Speaker 3: There's lots of machines out there that you can buy 171 00:09:15,476 --> 00:09:16,156 Speaker 3: in restaurants. 172 00:09:16,196 --> 00:09:17,956 Speaker 1: I mean the point was, yes. 173 00:09:17,836 --> 00:09:20,836 Speaker 2: What there was not some intellectual property opportunity that was 174 00:09:20,876 --> 00:09:21,396 Speaker 2: some part of this. 175 00:09:21,596 --> 00:09:23,796 Speaker 3: No, in fact, in fact that Ninja Creamy has a 176 00:09:23,836 --> 00:09:28,436 Speaker 3: lot of intellectual property within it. But it was it 177 00:09:28,476 --> 00:09:32,076 Speaker 3: was how is something made outside of the home that 178 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 3: tastes so great that the consumers not able to do 179 00:09:34,916 --> 00:09:37,956 Speaker 3: it inside of the home. Now here's something very interesting 180 00:09:37,996 --> 00:09:42,116 Speaker 3: for you to know. It was never the idea of 181 00:09:42,196 --> 00:09:46,036 Speaker 3: Shark Ninja to develop protein ice cream, Like we created 182 00:09:46,036 --> 00:09:46,796 Speaker 3: this hardware. 183 00:09:47,156 --> 00:09:48,916 Speaker 1: Okay, this Ninja creamy product. 184 00:09:48,916 --> 00:09:51,436 Speaker 2: Well wait before protein ice cream is like the end 185 00:09:51,436 --> 00:09:53,036 Speaker 2: of the story, right, I feel like there's a few 186 00:09:53,076 --> 00:09:55,036 Speaker 2: more things that have to happen first. Like one is, 187 00:09:55,036 --> 00:09:58,556 Speaker 2: you have to figure out how to turn the eight 188 00:09:58,636 --> 00:10:03,316 Speaker 2: thousand dollars restaurant machine into a two hundred dollars machine. Right, 189 00:10:03,556 --> 00:10:04,276 Speaker 2: how do you do that? 190 00:10:04,756 --> 00:10:07,916 Speaker 3: First of all, we start with a target price of 191 00:10:07,956 --> 00:10:10,356 Speaker 3: what we we'd love to sa sell it. Now, sometimes 192 00:10:10,356 --> 00:10:13,196 Speaker 3: that target price is you know, complete pie in the 193 00:10:13,276 --> 00:10:15,916 Speaker 3: sky where we go to the engineers and we'd say, 194 00:10:16,156 --> 00:10:18,156 Speaker 3: we'd love to be able to sell this product for 195 00:10:18,196 --> 00:10:21,676 Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety nine dollars. And after the engineers, 196 00:10:21,796 --> 00:10:23,676 Speaker 3: you know, get back off the floor and tell you 197 00:10:23,716 --> 00:10:26,276 Speaker 3: how dumb you are, because you know the motor is 198 00:10:26,276 --> 00:10:28,316 Speaker 3: going to cost this and the PCBA is going to 199 00:10:28,396 --> 00:10:31,036 Speaker 3: cost this. In the ways we say okay, like let's 200 00:10:31,076 --> 00:10:35,236 Speaker 3: now start figuring it out, like how large could the 201 00:10:35,276 --> 00:10:38,356 Speaker 3: size of the pint be? You know, in order to 202 00:10:38,396 --> 00:10:41,116 Speaker 3: be able to kind of control all these variables. Product 203 00:10:41,116 --> 00:10:47,716 Speaker 3: development is about managing all of these different you know, requirements. 204 00:10:48,316 --> 00:10:52,436 Speaker 3: It's not about developing the best product always. It's about 205 00:10:52,436 --> 00:10:55,396 Speaker 3: that trade off, its tradeoffs, and it's about developing the 206 00:10:55,436 --> 00:10:58,996 Speaker 3: best performance at the best quality, at the best value, 207 00:10:59,316 --> 00:11:03,356 Speaker 3: and it's the combination of those things. Sometimes product development 208 00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:06,596 Speaker 3: is actually a vanity exercise. There are times where I 209 00:11:06,716 --> 00:11:09,396 Speaker 3: go on to Kickstarter and I look at a product 210 00:11:09,996 --> 00:11:13,876 Speaker 3: and the product is amazing, Okay, is it is incredible 211 00:11:13,916 --> 00:11:14,516 Speaker 3: what they've done. 212 00:11:15,316 --> 00:11:16,236 Speaker 1: And then you look. 213 00:11:16,036 --> 00:11:19,596 Speaker 3: At the price tag and you're like it's eighteen hundred dollars. Yeah, 214 00:11:19,676 --> 00:11:22,716 Speaker 3: and you're like, listen, for eighteen hundred dollars, you're dealing 215 00:11:22,716 --> 00:11:26,196 Speaker 3: with such a small of a small consumer base. So 216 00:11:26,476 --> 00:11:29,356 Speaker 3: going back to the creamy example, we had to sit 217 00:11:29,436 --> 00:11:33,236 Speaker 3: there and for literally months and months it was trade 218 00:11:33,276 --> 00:11:34,396 Speaker 3: off conversations. 219 00:11:34,796 --> 00:11:37,076 Speaker 2: My understanding. So it comes out in twenty twenty one 220 00:11:37,196 --> 00:11:40,196 Speaker 2: in the pandemic, you have this thesis about everybody's home 221 00:11:40,236 --> 00:11:43,076 Speaker 2: and cooking, which was correct, but it doesn't seem like 222 00:11:43,116 --> 00:11:45,436 Speaker 2: the Creamy really took off when it came out. 223 00:11:45,636 --> 00:11:49,236 Speaker 3: Yes, and we started in the second half of twenty 224 00:11:49,356 --> 00:11:53,556 Speaker 3: twenty two focusing it much more on social media. We 225 00:11:54,196 --> 00:11:56,476 Speaker 3: started seeding it to lots of people. 226 00:11:57,036 --> 00:11:59,116 Speaker 2: This is your marketing strategy, right, This is a good 227 00:11:59,116 --> 00:12:01,596 Speaker 2: time to talk about that. Like you guys do as 228 00:12:01,676 --> 00:12:05,556 Speaker 2: much creator marketing as let's say, anybody to a first approximation, right, 229 00:12:06,036 --> 00:12:07,756 Speaker 2: tell me about what you did with the Creamy and 230 00:12:07,796 --> 00:12:10,796 Speaker 2: how that sort of reflects more broadly the way you 231 00:12:11,196 --> 00:12:13,756 Speaker 2: do creator marketing and social media marketing. 232 00:12:13,796 --> 00:12:18,396 Speaker 3: Well, let's start with the end result is to have 233 00:12:18,756 --> 00:12:21,236 Speaker 3: consumer organic flywheel going. 234 00:12:21,756 --> 00:12:22,756 Speaker 1: That's the end results. 235 00:12:23,236 --> 00:12:25,596 Speaker 2: You don't have to keep paying creators forever for a 236 00:12:25,596 --> 00:12:26,396 Speaker 2: given produmt No. 237 00:12:26,796 --> 00:12:30,796 Speaker 3: And by the way, it becomes so authentic when thousands 238 00:12:30,796 --> 00:12:34,236 Speaker 3: of consumers are sharing their insights and are sharing their 239 00:12:34,236 --> 00:12:38,316 Speaker 3: best recipes. But you have to light the organic flywheel. 240 00:12:38,316 --> 00:12:43,436 Speaker 3: And so you light the organic flywheel by getting creators, chefs, 241 00:12:43,956 --> 00:12:48,276 Speaker 3: other key opinion leaders that are doing things with the 242 00:12:48,356 --> 00:12:52,836 Speaker 3: product to start to spur excitement. Now, fortunately for us, 243 00:12:53,156 --> 00:12:56,236 Speaker 3: by the time that started in the second half of 244 00:12:56,276 --> 00:12:59,796 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, we already had lots of units. 245 00:12:59,516 --> 00:13:00,396 Speaker 1: Out in the market. 246 00:13:00,876 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 3: So we started investing tremendously at that point in social 247 00:13:05,036 --> 00:13:10,116 Speaker 3: media influencers, social media marketing, and by Christmas of twenty 248 00:13:10,156 --> 00:13:14,556 Speaker 3: twenty two, that started activating the people that had bought 249 00:13:14,636 --> 00:13:16,836 Speaker 3: the product. At the end of twenty twenty one and 250 00:13:16,876 --> 00:13:18,076 Speaker 3: into twenty twenty. 251 00:13:17,756 --> 00:13:20,996 Speaker 2: Two, activating mean it got them to start. 252 00:13:20,716 --> 00:13:28,356 Speaker 3: Posting exactly, sharing recipes, posting, troubleshooting, unboxing. 253 00:13:28,556 --> 00:13:30,156 Speaker 1: Unboxing is a really exciting thing. 254 00:13:30,156 --> 00:13:34,196 Speaker 3: I mean, people, there's a whole cottage industry of influencers 255 00:13:34,236 --> 00:13:36,476 Speaker 3: that just go on and do that. We don't pay 256 00:13:36,796 --> 00:13:39,036 Speaker 3: that just do unboxing of our products. 257 00:13:39,276 --> 00:13:41,196 Speaker 2: Just to make this clear, this is literally people who 258 00:13:41,316 --> 00:13:43,636 Speaker 2: open products and take them out of the box and 259 00:13:43,676 --> 00:13:46,556 Speaker 2: that's the video. I will say, I love returning things. 260 00:13:46,596 --> 00:13:49,556 Speaker 2: I have dreamed of making reboxing videos for other dads 261 00:13:49,596 --> 00:13:51,556 Speaker 2: who love returning things, but I haven't done it. 262 00:13:51,796 --> 00:13:55,076 Speaker 3: And on the unboxing it's like going through first use, 263 00:13:55,236 --> 00:13:57,676 Speaker 3: like getting the consumer all the way through the unboxing 264 00:13:57,716 --> 00:14:00,596 Speaker 3: process to the first use. As we got into twenty 265 00:14:00,636 --> 00:14:04,756 Speaker 3: twenty three again that started accelerating. I mean, we started 266 00:14:04,796 --> 00:14:08,316 Speaker 3: finding more and more use cases. The beginning of twenty 267 00:14:08,356 --> 00:14:12,996 Speaker 3: twenty three is when protein ice cream really started so. 268 00:14:13,116 --> 00:14:15,956 Speaker 2: Was it protein ice cream that really sent the creamy 269 00:14:15,996 --> 00:14:17,356 Speaker 2: through the roof with that? What did it? 270 00:14:17,796 --> 00:14:21,076 Speaker 3: Protein ice cream was a huge catalyst of being able 271 00:14:21,116 --> 00:14:24,396 Speaker 3: to do it. And what protein ice cream did was 272 00:14:24,476 --> 00:14:29,116 Speaker 3: it started this massive creator group of just developing their 273 00:14:29,116 --> 00:14:33,676 Speaker 3: own ideas. There are you know, influencers that have channels 274 00:14:33,716 --> 00:14:34,916 Speaker 3: of just will it creamy? 275 00:14:35,476 --> 00:14:37,476 Speaker 2: And are you still putting money into it at this 276 00:14:37,516 --> 00:14:39,276 Speaker 2: point when this is happening. Are you like seeing this 277 00:14:39,356 --> 00:14:40,676 Speaker 2: and be like, oh, yeah, let's put a lot of 278 00:14:40,676 --> 00:14:42,396 Speaker 2: money into protein ice cream. 279 00:14:42,556 --> 00:14:44,956 Speaker 3: So we were putting a lot of money into it 280 00:14:44,996 --> 00:14:48,876 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three. Okay, here's the interesting thing that 281 00:14:49,036 --> 00:14:51,556 Speaker 3: turned and it turned on us, I would say the 282 00:14:51,596 --> 00:14:54,916 Speaker 3: second half of twenty four where there was so much 283 00:14:55,196 --> 00:14:59,356 Speaker 3: organic content being developed that we no longer had to 284 00:14:59,396 --> 00:15:01,796 Speaker 3: put our own marketing money behind it. 285 00:15:02,116 --> 00:15:05,916 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have my own creamy journey and we booked 286 00:15:05,956 --> 00:15:08,796 Speaker 2: you before this happened. So it's just a coincidence. First 287 00:15:08,796 --> 00:15:14,436 Speaker 2: of all, you're starting the viral marketing flywheel. Worked on 288 00:15:14,476 --> 00:15:18,276 Speaker 2: my teenage daughters who know everything they know from TikTok. 289 00:15:18,596 --> 00:15:22,676 Speaker 2: They asked for a creamy for Christmas. It's great, we 290 00:15:22,716 --> 00:15:28,956 Speaker 2: made gelato together. Your dream come true, and then it broke. Wow, Yeah, 291 00:15:28,996 --> 00:15:31,116 Speaker 2: it just broke. It just broke. Do you want to 292 00:15:31,156 --> 00:15:32,116 Speaker 2: guess how it broke? 293 00:15:33,036 --> 00:15:34,836 Speaker 1: Tell me, I'm anxious to hear. 294 00:15:35,356 --> 00:15:39,276 Speaker 2: Okay, my daughter, I think she put the bowl in wrong. 295 00:15:39,436 --> 00:15:41,076 Speaker 2: I mean, she's a teenager. I don't feel like I had. 296 00:15:41,156 --> 00:15:44,556 Speaker 2: But there's an interesting question to me, which is to 297 00:15:44,596 --> 00:15:46,676 Speaker 2: what extent I guess to some extent it's my fault 298 00:15:46,676 --> 00:15:49,036 Speaker 2: because I'm the dad or whatever. To what extent is 299 00:15:49,036 --> 00:15:50,796 Speaker 2: that my fault? To what extent is that my daughter's fault? 300 00:15:50,916 --> 00:15:52,876 Speaker 2: And to what extent is it your fault? Because it like, 301 00:15:53,116 --> 00:15:54,996 Speaker 2: it's not like we dropped it. It was not like 302 00:15:55,036 --> 00:15:58,436 Speaker 2: a gratuitous thing, and like it seems like it was 303 00:15:58,556 --> 00:15:59,756 Speaker 2: kind of easy to break it. 304 00:15:59,796 --> 00:16:04,916 Speaker 3: Frankly, Well, here's what I would say, Like it's all 305 00:16:04,996 --> 00:16:05,756 Speaker 3: my fault. 306 00:16:06,036 --> 00:16:07,956 Speaker 2: Okay, I mean I'm not saying that. 307 00:16:08,036 --> 00:16:11,916 Speaker 3: I'm truly not no, no, because listen, I mean, if 308 00:16:11,956 --> 00:16:15,476 Speaker 3: we understand now, like what your daughter did in terms 309 00:16:15,516 --> 00:16:17,596 Speaker 3: of you know, maybe she pushed it in the wrong 310 00:16:17,636 --> 00:16:19,916 Speaker 3: way and maybe you know, she got some resistance and 311 00:16:19,956 --> 00:16:20,796 Speaker 3: she overshot it. 312 00:16:20,796 --> 00:16:22,796 Speaker 2: It's clearly a mistake other people have made. 313 00:16:22,916 --> 00:16:25,516 Speaker 3: Okay, And you know what I would say, is that like, 314 00:16:25,956 --> 00:16:28,876 Speaker 3: from the time we develop a product, as we're getting 315 00:16:28,916 --> 00:16:34,036 Speaker 3: consumer feedback on the product, that product is evolving and changing. Okay, 316 00:16:34,076 --> 00:16:37,796 Speaker 3: we're making constant upgrades to those products. Now, I'll give 317 00:16:37,836 --> 00:16:40,196 Speaker 3: you a good example. When we came out with our 318 00:16:40,236 --> 00:16:45,756 Speaker 3: first blender, we drop spoons and forks into the blender 319 00:16:46,196 --> 00:16:48,556 Speaker 3: and to make sure that like that wasn't going to 320 00:16:48,596 --> 00:16:51,276 Speaker 3: break the blender, because you know what, something could slip 321 00:16:51,276 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 3: out of somebody's hand and it goes into there. And 322 00:16:53,556 --> 00:16:57,836 Speaker 3: from a reliability standpoint, the product should be able to 323 00:16:57,916 --> 00:17:00,436 Speaker 3: stand up to kind of what we call. 324 00:17:00,356 --> 00:17:04,156 Speaker 1: Like reasonable consumer abuse. Okay, now I don't know what 325 00:17:04,196 --> 00:17:05,876 Speaker 1: your your daughter did was reasonable. 326 00:17:05,556 --> 00:17:08,076 Speaker 2: Consumer it was reasonable. I think it was reasonable. The 327 00:17:08,156 --> 00:17:10,716 Speaker 2: bull get stuck seems like a thing. Although I will say, 328 00:17:11,076 --> 00:17:12,876 Speaker 2: let me say the end of this, I'd actually not 329 00:17:12,956 --> 00:17:14,596 Speaker 2: dealt with it, because of course you don't deal with 330 00:17:14,636 --> 00:17:16,876 Speaker 2: it whatever. And I was like, oh, I'm interviewing the 331 00:17:16,916 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 2: guy this week. I better deal with it and see 332 00:17:18,796 --> 00:17:22,876 Speaker 2: what happens. And so a couple of days ago, I whatever, 333 00:17:22,916 --> 00:17:24,516 Speaker 2: I filled out that just the thing online and it 334 00:17:24,556 --> 00:17:25,916 Speaker 2: was a Christmas gift and like we didn't have the 335 00:17:25,996 --> 00:17:27,036 Speaker 2: receipt and I was like, oh, it's gonna be a 336 00:17:27,036 --> 00:17:29,196 Speaker 2: pain of this. It actually was good, at least so far. 337 00:17:29,276 --> 00:17:31,596 Speaker 2: I went online a few hours later later that night 338 00:17:31,636 --> 00:17:34,956 Speaker 2: somebody was like, Okay, send us a picture of these things, 339 00:17:35,676 --> 00:17:37,396 Speaker 2: and I did that and they're like, okay, we're gonna 340 00:17:37,396 --> 00:17:38,836 Speaker 2: send you a new one. So, as far as I know, 341 00:17:38,876 --> 00:17:41,756 Speaker 2: a new one is on the way. And actually my 342 00:17:41,836 --> 00:17:43,676 Speaker 2: other daughter, not the one who cause I broke it, 343 00:17:43,716 --> 00:17:45,596 Speaker 2: she was like, wow, you got to tell the guy. 344 00:17:45,636 --> 00:17:48,836 Speaker 2: It's great. So I think a reasonable resolution. 345 00:17:49,116 --> 00:17:51,076 Speaker 3: But look, it goes to the example of what I 346 00:17:51,076 --> 00:17:52,996 Speaker 3: said to you in the beginning about winning and losing, 347 00:17:53,116 --> 00:17:57,076 Speaker 3: like you had an experience, and regardless of whether it's 348 00:17:57,076 --> 00:17:59,836 Speaker 3: your fault or it's our fault, you know, I want 349 00:17:59,876 --> 00:18:01,156 Speaker 3: you as a consumer for life. 350 00:18:01,436 --> 00:18:03,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be better if it hadn't broke, right, Like, 351 00:18:03,716 --> 00:18:05,276 Speaker 2: there are lots of other things where you got to 352 00:18:05,276 --> 00:18:07,036 Speaker 2: put the bull in right, But if you put the 353 00:18:07,036 --> 00:18:09,476 Speaker 2: bull in wrong, it just doesn't turn on. It's not 354 00:18:09,596 --> 00:18:12,916 Speaker 2: like broken and stuck forever right. Right, Although presumably this 355 00:18:12,956 --> 00:18:15,196 Speaker 2: is one of your trade offs. I imagine the engineers 356 00:18:15,196 --> 00:18:17,476 Speaker 2: were like, oh, we could fix this, but it would 357 00:18:17,476 --> 00:18:19,756 Speaker 2: add twenty dollars to the cost or something, and not 358 00:18:19,836 --> 00:18:21,636 Speaker 2: to say that you should have chosen the other trade 359 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:23,996 Speaker 2: offf to be clear, I'm not I don't know, but 360 00:18:24,116 --> 00:18:26,516 Speaker 2: I imagine they knew that it could break in this 361 00:18:26,596 --> 00:18:28,556 Speaker 2: way and they couldn't fix it, or they couldn't fix 362 00:18:28,596 --> 00:18:30,516 Speaker 2: it at a reasonable price or without lowering the quality 363 00:18:30,596 --> 00:18:32,036 Speaker 2: or something right in the. 364 00:18:32,076 --> 00:18:34,876 Speaker 3: End, I mean, And I'm sure that the person who 365 00:18:34,956 --> 00:18:37,556 Speaker 3: you randomly sent this in didn't know that you and 366 00:18:37,596 --> 00:18:38,316 Speaker 3: I were speaking. 367 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:41,996 Speaker 2: No, absolutely that I didn't tell them, no, of course not. 368 00:18:42,116 --> 00:18:45,196 Speaker 3: And so the fact that they made it right, you know, 369 00:18:45,396 --> 00:18:48,476 Speaker 3: kind of lives up to our positively impacting people's life. 370 00:18:49,076 --> 00:18:51,436 Speaker 2: The breaking was worse than an expected, but the resolution 371 00:18:51,716 --> 00:18:53,436 Speaker 2: was better than I expected, and the ice cream is 372 00:18:53,476 --> 00:18:55,076 Speaker 2: quite good. Like, we'll get a new one and we'll 373 00:18:55,116 --> 00:18:55,916 Speaker 2: make more ice cream. 374 00:18:55,996 --> 00:18:59,276 Speaker 3: And my hope is that your daughter is like, hey, 375 00:18:59,876 --> 00:19:01,996 Speaker 3: like the Ninja brand really stood by. 376 00:19:01,916 --> 00:19:08,516 Speaker 2: It still to come on the show what Shark Ninja learned? 377 00:19:08,596 --> 00:19:12,316 Speaker 2: When they say their employees into ordinary people's houses to 378 00:19:12,396 --> 00:19:23,876 Speaker 2: watch them vacuum. Tell me about the ethnographic research that 379 00:19:23,956 --> 00:19:26,516 Speaker 2: you do, like, in particular, who are the people who 380 00:19:26,556 --> 00:19:29,516 Speaker 2: do it, what's their background and sort of why are 381 00:19:29,516 --> 00:19:31,116 Speaker 2: they particularly good at their jobs. 382 00:19:32,396 --> 00:19:32,756 Speaker 1: Yeah. 383 00:19:32,796 --> 00:19:36,036 Speaker 3: So you know, Steve Jobs always had you know, a 384 00:19:36,116 --> 00:19:37,956 Speaker 3: famous line right of like you know. 385 00:19:37,956 --> 00:19:39,316 Speaker 1: You wouldn't do focus groups. 386 00:19:39,316 --> 00:19:41,276 Speaker 3: And I don't think it's really a question of like 387 00:19:41,396 --> 00:19:45,156 Speaker 3: not doing focus groups. I think that the consumer doesn't 388 00:19:45,196 --> 00:19:50,276 Speaker 3: know what's possible, right, They just know the world that 389 00:19:50,396 --> 00:19:51,276 Speaker 3: exists with them. 390 00:19:51,356 --> 00:19:54,196 Speaker 1: So when we go into one hundred consumer homes. 391 00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:58,356 Speaker 3: And we watch them vacuum, and eight of those consumers 392 00:19:58,396 --> 00:20:01,916 Speaker 3: turn the vacuum over, take a knife or a razor blade, 393 00:20:02,316 --> 00:20:05,636 Speaker 3: slice the hair off the brush, roll, pull the hair out, 394 00:20:05,756 --> 00:20:07,316 Speaker 3: throw it in the garbage, and at the end of 395 00:20:07,316 --> 00:20:09,956 Speaker 3: the cleaning session, we say, is there anything you do 396 00:20:10,156 --> 00:20:11,436 Speaker 3: to improve your vacuum? 397 00:20:11,756 --> 00:20:13,596 Speaker 1: They say, no, I think it works great. 398 00:20:13,756 --> 00:20:16,316 Speaker 3: And we said, well, what about when you nearly sliced 399 00:20:16,356 --> 00:20:18,636 Speaker 3: your hand off and you pulled the hair out, And 400 00:20:18,756 --> 00:20:22,276 Speaker 3: they start apologizing for it. They start saying, oh, we 401 00:20:22,356 --> 00:20:25,196 Speaker 3: have two daughters with long hair, we have pets in 402 00:20:25,236 --> 00:20:28,676 Speaker 3: the house. That's just they've learned to live with the 403 00:20:28,796 --> 00:20:30,996 Speaker 3: problems of their existing products. 404 00:20:31,076 --> 00:20:33,756 Speaker 1: They don't know what's possible. They don't notice it. 405 00:20:33,876 --> 00:20:37,116 Speaker 3: There and say to our researchers, Hey, I'd love if 406 00:20:37,156 --> 00:20:41,116 Speaker 3: the vacuum didn't wrap hair for fifteen years. Every two 407 00:20:41,196 --> 00:20:43,636 Speaker 3: weeks they slice the hair off the brush roll and 408 00:20:43,636 --> 00:20:44,436 Speaker 3: they throw it away. 409 00:20:44,996 --> 00:20:47,276 Speaker 2: I feel like you don't need to be like that 410 00:20:47,716 --> 00:20:51,116 Speaker 2: insightful to get that one. Like I feel like not 411 00:20:51,236 --> 00:20:53,156 Speaker 2: to be a modest I feel like I might notice 412 00:20:53,156 --> 00:20:55,756 Speaker 2: that one. Like, what's a subtler thing, you guys. 413 00:20:55,756 --> 00:20:56,996 Speaker 1: We'll think about this. 414 00:20:57,836 --> 00:21:01,476 Speaker 3: Before we came out with Shark's self cleaning brush roll 415 00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:06,396 Speaker 3: about four years ago, there were eighty years of vacuums 416 00:21:06,876 --> 00:21:08,676 Speaker 3: that did not have this technology. 417 00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:11,516 Speaker 2: Fair Enough, I didn't notice it. I didn't come out 418 00:21:11,556 --> 00:21:14,156 Speaker 2: with a self cleaning brush roll. But I imagine the 419 00:21:14,156 --> 00:21:17,036 Speaker 2: people who you have going out into people's homes noticed 420 00:21:17,076 --> 00:21:19,716 Speaker 2: much subtler things than that. And I'm curious about the 421 00:21:19,716 --> 00:21:21,356 Speaker 2: subtler end of what they're doing. 422 00:21:21,596 --> 00:21:24,596 Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, I'll give you a great example. In 423 00:21:24,716 --> 00:21:27,196 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, we came out with a product called the 424 00:21:27,276 --> 00:21:32,756 Speaker 3: Ninja Foodie. At the time, all the rage in kitchens 425 00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:36,476 Speaker 3: was pressure cooking. People were pressure cooking pressure cooking. It 426 00:21:36,556 --> 00:21:38,516 Speaker 3: had like completely reinvented itself. 427 00:21:39,556 --> 00:21:41,596 Speaker 2: It you're not saying the name, but that's what we're 428 00:21:41,596 --> 00:21:42,196 Speaker 2: talking about. 429 00:21:42,436 --> 00:21:48,636 Speaker 1: Pressure cooking. And so if you go online. These pressure 430 00:21:48,676 --> 00:21:49,556 Speaker 1: cookers were. 431 00:21:49,396 --> 00:21:52,796 Speaker 3: Getting very good reviews, I mean four point five stars, 432 00:21:52,836 --> 00:21:56,196 Speaker 3: you know, four point four stars, and so there wasn't 433 00:21:56,196 --> 00:22:01,156 Speaker 3: an obvious problem. We went into consumer homes and we 434 00:22:01,236 --> 00:22:05,276 Speaker 3: observed that many people were taking the food out of 435 00:22:05,316 --> 00:22:08,716 Speaker 3: their pressure cooker and were then putting it into the 436 00:22:08,796 --> 00:22:13,196 Speaker 3: oven under the broiler, and they said, well, a chicken 437 00:22:13,316 --> 00:22:16,596 Speaker 3: is very tender, but it comes out and it's like 438 00:22:17,076 --> 00:22:20,956 Speaker 3: it's it's not crispy, and it's like a little like 439 00:22:21,076 --> 00:22:23,316 Speaker 3: dull looking. It doesn't look all that appealing. 440 00:22:23,956 --> 00:22:27,596 Speaker 2: A broiler finishes a nice move, like if you're cooking stick, 441 00:22:27,636 --> 00:22:30,836 Speaker 2: it's up under the broiler at the end. It's a move, yeah, exactly. 442 00:22:30,876 --> 00:22:33,916 Speaker 3: And so so there was an example where where we 443 00:22:34,076 --> 00:22:37,316 Speaker 3: came back and we said, wow, there's a problem. What 444 00:22:37,436 --> 00:22:41,156 Speaker 3: if we had a pressure cooker that could crisp? And 445 00:22:41,196 --> 00:22:45,116 Speaker 3: that was the original Ninja FOODI. It became a huge 446 00:22:45,156 --> 00:22:48,436 Speaker 3: success for us. Okay, the Ninja Foody kind of launched 447 00:22:48,476 --> 00:22:51,276 Speaker 3: a whole new line of cooking products for us. It 448 00:22:51,356 --> 00:22:54,876 Speaker 3: ultimately became a very very successful business for us. But 449 00:22:54,996 --> 00:22:57,796 Speaker 3: that all came out of that little insight. If you 450 00:22:57,836 --> 00:23:00,996 Speaker 3: would have comed consumer reviews, you would have never seen 451 00:23:01,036 --> 00:23:03,796 Speaker 3: it in there. If you would have asked consumers, you'd 452 00:23:03,836 --> 00:23:06,876 Speaker 3: have never seen it in there. It's watching people in 453 00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:10,876 Speaker 3: their homes doing little things and then saying, well, what 454 00:23:10,956 --> 00:23:14,756 Speaker 3: if we could combine the whole process for them. Now 455 00:23:15,236 --> 00:23:17,596 Speaker 3: here's what's something interesting about it. Let's go back to 456 00:23:17,676 --> 00:23:22,116 Speaker 3: your point on product development. In product development, there was 457 00:23:22,236 --> 00:23:27,596 Speaker 3: always an approach that we called TOA, and toe TOA 458 00:23:27,916 --> 00:23:32,276 Speaker 3: was referred to as the threshold of acceptability on a product. Okay, So, 459 00:23:32,396 --> 00:23:37,716 Speaker 3: for example, a TOA on a vacuum cleaner might be noise. Yeah, 460 00:23:37,716 --> 00:23:40,636 Speaker 3: I see, you're never We're never going to have something silent, 461 00:23:41,076 --> 00:23:43,396 Speaker 3: But you know, how do we make it so that 462 00:23:43,476 --> 00:23:45,756 Speaker 3: it just gets to a TA level? 463 00:23:45,876 --> 00:23:49,076 Speaker 2: Quiet enough on any on any dimension? What is the 464 00:23:49,116 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 2: good enough bar? 465 00:23:50,516 --> 00:23:53,316 Speaker 3: Exactly where a consumer is not going to go online 466 00:23:53,316 --> 00:23:55,036 Speaker 3: and write a review and say, oh my god, I 467 00:23:55,116 --> 00:23:58,436 Speaker 3: unboxed this product and I can't believe how quiet it is. Okay, 468 00:23:58,516 --> 00:24:00,876 Speaker 3: it's so it's just TOA is what you're going to 469 00:24:00,916 --> 00:24:05,516 Speaker 3: put into it. Then you've got something called toe. Toe 470 00:24:05,676 --> 00:24:09,796 Speaker 3: is threshold of excellence. Threshold of excellence is, for example, 471 00:24:09,796 --> 00:24:14,836 Speaker 3: in a vacuum cleaner, we do an amazing job cleaning. Okay, 472 00:24:14,876 --> 00:24:19,156 Speaker 3: and in particular cleaning carpets. When you use our product 473 00:24:19,236 --> 00:24:22,916 Speaker 3: for the first time on carpets, the amount of dust 474 00:24:23,156 --> 00:24:26,116 Speaker 3: and dirt that is in your dust cup, it's a wow. 475 00:24:26,796 --> 00:24:30,836 Speaker 3: Consumers love seeing their dust cups filled up. They like 476 00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:33,316 Speaker 3: these big dust cups and then they love to empty 477 00:24:33,316 --> 00:24:35,476 Speaker 3: them and say, oh my god, I can't believe what 478 00:24:35,596 --> 00:24:38,316 Speaker 3: was in my carpet there before I bought a Shark vacuum, 479 00:24:39,036 --> 00:24:41,996 Speaker 3: And so a toe is something that the consumer is 480 00:24:42,036 --> 00:24:44,196 Speaker 3: going to go online and write a review and say, 481 00:24:44,556 --> 00:24:48,036 Speaker 3: I use my Shark and it is unbelievable. 482 00:24:48,156 --> 00:24:49,836 Speaker 1: Okay, I can't believe what its like. 483 00:24:49,956 --> 00:24:51,556 Speaker 2: I get it. So, but like I feel like you're 484 00:24:51,556 --> 00:24:54,476 Speaker 2: going somewhere with this, like land this idea for that. 485 00:24:54,916 --> 00:24:59,516 Speaker 3: So now there is a thing called TOV and TOV 486 00:24:59,996 --> 00:25:04,396 Speaker 3: is threshold of viral or threshold of virality, and that 487 00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:08,516 Speaker 3: did not exist pre two thousand and four, and so 488 00:25:08,596 --> 00:25:11,836 Speaker 3: from two isn't it for onward? We now as we're 489 00:25:11,876 --> 00:25:14,476 Speaker 3: developing a product, we now look at it from first 490 00:25:14,516 --> 00:25:18,596 Speaker 3: principles of how is this product going to drive virality. 491 00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:21,276 Speaker 1: We developed a product that. 492 00:25:21,316 --> 00:25:24,316 Speaker 3: Just came out last holiday season called the Shark Facial 493 00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:29,556 Speaker 3: pro Glow. It's an at home facial product. This is 494 00:25:29,876 --> 00:25:31,876 Speaker 3: a product that you go around your face and you 495 00:25:31,956 --> 00:25:35,236 Speaker 3: put these topicals on and it extracts the dirt from 496 00:25:35,276 --> 00:25:39,516 Speaker 3: your pores and then it hydrates and moisturizes you. What 497 00:25:39,596 --> 00:25:44,836 Speaker 3: we found is that what people love is looking inside 498 00:25:44,996 --> 00:25:49,196 Speaker 3: of the dirty canister. Okay, after it's extracted and they 499 00:25:49,316 --> 00:25:50,236 Speaker 3: see gunk. 500 00:25:50,716 --> 00:25:53,276 Speaker 2: So it's all this schmutz was just in my face. 501 00:25:53,316 --> 00:25:54,076 Speaker 2: That is the virus. 502 00:25:54,276 --> 00:25:57,236 Speaker 1: I love schmutz. Okay. 503 00:25:56,756 --> 00:26:00,196 Speaker 3: They love schmutz in a in a vacuum cleaner, dust cup. 504 00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:03,116 Speaker 3: They love it in a facial you know, gunk tag. 505 00:26:04,076 --> 00:26:07,556 Speaker 2: That's your real secret, at least on the other Shark side. 506 00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:11,196 Speaker 2: That is your secret to billion dollars success. People love schmud. 507 00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:14,956 Speaker 3: That's that's exactly. But I mean we'll develop business cards 508 00:26:14,996 --> 00:26:15,236 Speaker 3: with that. 509 00:26:16,876 --> 00:26:19,516 Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about a few things that haven't worked 510 00:26:19,516 --> 00:26:22,116 Speaker 2: for you or that you haven't figured out. I mean, 511 00:26:22,196 --> 00:26:24,156 Speaker 2: you tell the story of sort of success after success, 512 00:26:24,196 --> 00:26:25,636 Speaker 2: But what's something you did that didn't work. 513 00:26:26,156 --> 00:26:29,436 Speaker 3: Back in twenty ten, we were just getting started in 514 00:26:29,436 --> 00:26:34,316 Speaker 3: the vacuum business and we developed the Shark multi vacuum. 515 00:26:34,396 --> 00:26:39,316 Speaker 3: We became enamored with this had massive suction power in 516 00:26:39,396 --> 00:26:43,716 Speaker 3: this very small compact vacuum. The reality was is that 517 00:26:43,796 --> 00:26:46,676 Speaker 3: it was like an erector set. Okay, if you've typed 518 00:26:46,716 --> 00:26:50,036 Speaker 3: in Shark multivac, you could still probably see it. Okay, 519 00:26:50,396 --> 00:26:54,716 Speaker 3: we couldn't scrub the Internet of the Shark multivacs. 520 00:26:54,516 --> 00:26:57,356 Speaker 2: Erector set meaning too complicated. 521 00:26:56,796 --> 00:27:04,196 Speaker 3: Too complicated, not easy. Its aesthetically unpleasing. You know, nothing 522 00:27:04,236 --> 00:27:06,836 Speaker 3: good about it other than the fact that from a 523 00:27:06,916 --> 00:27:09,076 Speaker 3: performance standpoint. 524 00:27:08,556 --> 00:27:10,796 Speaker 1: It was a okay in the way. 525 00:27:10,796 --> 00:27:12,916 Speaker 2: In the way you did it interesting. So it's like 526 00:27:13,036 --> 00:27:15,676 Speaker 2: it was an amazing vacuum, but it sucked. Is the 527 00:27:15,756 --> 00:27:17,036 Speaker 2: interesting justa position? 528 00:27:17,116 --> 00:27:17,316 Speaker 1: Yes? 529 00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:20,516 Speaker 3: Yes, we launch it into the market and it is 530 00:27:20,596 --> 00:27:22,596 Speaker 3: a disastrous failure. 531 00:27:22,756 --> 00:27:24,076 Speaker 1: Okay, at a time when our. 532 00:27:23,996 --> 00:27:27,836 Speaker 3: Business was much much smaller, we we knew it was. 533 00:27:27,836 --> 00:27:29,036 Speaker 1: Going to be a failure right away. 534 00:27:29,276 --> 00:27:32,876 Speaker 3: We went to retailers proactively, We cleaned it up. We 535 00:27:32,956 --> 00:27:35,636 Speaker 3: said we're going to liquidate the price down. It took 536 00:27:35,756 --> 00:27:37,996 Speaker 3: us about a year to sell through all the inventory. 537 00:27:39,076 --> 00:27:41,316 Speaker 3: But we looked at that and we did a post 538 00:27:41,396 --> 00:27:45,116 Speaker 3: mortem of that, and instead of saying never speak about 539 00:27:45,156 --> 00:27:47,876 Speaker 3: the Shark multi vac again, we said, like, there's something 540 00:27:47,996 --> 00:27:51,356 Speaker 3: in this thing that's amazing, but the way we executed 541 00:27:51,396 --> 00:27:55,436 Speaker 3: it was totally wrong. And so we ultimately said, there's 542 00:27:55,436 --> 00:27:59,436 Speaker 3: something is exciting why every vacuum is designed to just 543 00:27:59,556 --> 00:28:02,916 Speaker 3: clean floors. We want to develop vacuums that clean the 544 00:28:02,996 --> 00:28:06,596 Speaker 3: floor but also allow you to go above the floor everywhere, 545 00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:09,836 Speaker 3: and in all other vacuums that was done with a hose. 546 00:28:10,596 --> 00:28:13,956 Speaker 3: And so it gave birth to a product called the 547 00:28:13,996 --> 00:28:18,836 Speaker 3: Shark lift Away. The sharklift Away was developed in twenty eleven. 548 00:28:19,516 --> 00:28:22,236 Speaker 3: It became the number one selling vacuum cleaner in the 549 00:28:22,316 --> 00:28:26,396 Speaker 3: United States in twenty thirteen, and the sharklift Away is 550 00:28:26,436 --> 00:28:29,436 Speaker 3: still the number one selling vacuum cleaner in the United States. 551 00:28:30,236 --> 00:28:33,876 Speaker 3: And this all came from all the technology that was 552 00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:37,516 Speaker 3: in that Shark multivac. So I pointed out because when 553 00:28:37,596 --> 00:28:42,276 Speaker 3: you say like failing, we fail every day, Like I 554 00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:45,476 Speaker 3: don't have to go beyond today, okay to give you 555 00:28:45,516 --> 00:28:46,596 Speaker 3: examples of failing. 556 00:28:46,756 --> 00:28:50,316 Speaker 1: Okay, what failed today? What failed today? 557 00:28:50,396 --> 00:28:54,476 Speaker 3: We were developing product we're launching in Spain, and we 558 00:28:54,596 --> 00:28:58,956 Speaker 3: realized that the packaging that we sell in Spain doesn't 559 00:28:58,996 --> 00:29:02,516 Speaker 3: have anything in Spanish. But we just launched in Spain 560 00:29:03,196 --> 00:29:07,276 Speaker 3: last holiday season, I mean three months ago. Our business 561 00:29:07,316 --> 00:29:12,796 Speaker 3: is growing fast. We didn't take a step back and say, hey, well, 562 00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:15,876 Speaker 3: I mean our packaging is not in Spanish. I mean 563 00:29:15,876 --> 00:29:19,236 Speaker 3: we're not catering to the Spanish consumer. I walked out 564 00:29:19,236 --> 00:29:22,756 Speaker 3: of a meeting three hours ago where this insight was 565 00:29:22,796 --> 00:29:26,636 Speaker 3: served up by none other than our sales leader in 566 00:29:26,716 --> 00:29:31,476 Speaker 3: Spain that was trying to work around this, and we 567 00:29:31,516 --> 00:29:33,996 Speaker 3: stopped the meeting and we said time out, like we 568 00:29:34,036 --> 00:29:36,916 Speaker 3: need to fix this, like we need to fix this yesterday. 569 00:29:37,556 --> 00:29:39,756 Speaker 3: So you look at that and you say, like, how 570 00:29:39,756 --> 00:29:42,716 Speaker 3: did we get to a place where we launched the 571 00:29:42,756 --> 00:29:45,556 Speaker 3: product into the market and you know we don't have 572 00:29:45,636 --> 00:29:47,196 Speaker 3: Spanish language on the packaging. 573 00:29:47,396 --> 00:29:47,596 Speaker 2: Yeah. 574 00:29:47,996 --> 00:29:49,236 Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. 575 00:29:49,276 --> 00:29:51,596 Speaker 3: Like I said to you in the beginning, failure is 576 00:29:51,636 --> 00:29:54,676 Speaker 3: all temporary, Okay, failure is a temporary condition. 577 00:29:54,916 --> 00:29:56,036 Speaker 1: Like we're going to change this. 578 00:29:56,476 --> 00:29:59,316 Speaker 3: We're going to react quickly, We're gonna move, We're gonna 579 00:29:59,316 --> 00:30:00,516 Speaker 3: get it done, We're going to get. 580 00:30:00,356 --> 00:30:01,236 Speaker 1: It into the market. 581 00:30:01,636 --> 00:30:04,636 Speaker 3: I know consumers in Spain are loving our products and 582 00:30:04,636 --> 00:30:08,076 Speaker 3: they're engaging with us tremendously on social media, but you 583 00:30:08,076 --> 00:30:11,476 Speaker 3: know they're seeing Spanisanish language social media and then the 584 00:30:11,516 --> 00:30:13,996 Speaker 3: products showing up in their house it's showing up in 585 00:30:14,036 --> 00:30:16,116 Speaker 3: their house in English or in French or in German 586 00:30:16,236 --> 00:30:16,716 Speaker 3: or something. 587 00:30:17,356 --> 00:30:19,276 Speaker 1: And so so we got it. We got to do 588 00:30:19,356 --> 00:30:20,316 Speaker 1: right by the consumer. 589 00:30:21,316 --> 00:30:23,476 Speaker 2: What's a category that you want to get into but 590 00:30:23,516 --> 00:30:24,396 Speaker 2: you haven't figured out? 591 00:30:25,396 --> 00:30:26,516 Speaker 1: I mean there's so many. 592 00:30:26,716 --> 00:30:29,556 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, what's your white whale, what's like, 593 00:30:29,596 --> 00:30:31,596 Speaker 2: what's There's got to be one that you're like, come on, 594 00:30:31,796 --> 00:30:34,476 Speaker 2: I really want to make X. What's X. 595 00:30:35,356 --> 00:30:38,556 Speaker 3: There are a number of things in the roadmap. I 596 00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:42,596 Speaker 3: think the wellness category is ripe for disruption. 597 00:30:42,916 --> 00:30:45,076 Speaker 2: Okay, what does that word mean in the context of 598 00:30:45,076 --> 00:30:45,876 Speaker 2: your business? 599 00:30:46,316 --> 00:30:50,476 Speaker 3: So we got into skincare, and like, our skincare business 600 00:30:50,796 --> 00:30:52,876 Speaker 3: is growing tremendously globally. 601 00:30:53,436 --> 00:30:54,796 Speaker 1: I think that opens. 602 00:30:54,516 --> 00:30:59,476 Speaker 3: Up the next doors for us SCALP, you know, other 603 00:30:59,596 --> 00:31:03,156 Speaker 3: places in the beauty space. Like people's feeds are not 604 00:31:03,396 --> 00:31:05,596 Speaker 3: just about skin care. Let's look in like, what are 605 00:31:05,636 --> 00:31:10,356 Speaker 3: people engaging with. They're engaging with health, they're engaging with wellness, 606 00:31:10,716 --> 00:31:13,756 Speaker 3: they're engaging with kind of what are ways to kind 607 00:31:13,796 --> 00:31:16,996 Speaker 3: of improve the quality of my life. I think sleep 608 00:31:17,276 --> 00:31:19,916 Speaker 3: is a really interesting category for us to consider and 609 00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:20,476 Speaker 3: think about. 610 00:31:20,956 --> 00:31:22,356 Speaker 1: So here's the thing. 611 00:31:22,836 --> 00:31:26,916 Speaker 3: If I had one core technology, I would be landlocked. 612 00:31:27,116 --> 00:31:30,476 Speaker 3: If I took that core technology, I applied it to 613 00:31:30,516 --> 00:31:32,156 Speaker 3: a bunch of different things, and I was done. 614 00:31:32,236 --> 00:31:33,916 Speaker 1: Okay, there was no other place for me to put it. 615 00:31:34,516 --> 00:31:37,436 Speaker 3: My core technology is I want to go find the 616 00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:39,956 Speaker 3: next consumer problem to solve, and I think there's an 617 00:31:40,036 --> 00:31:42,156 Speaker 3: unlimited number of problems to solve. 618 00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:46,836 Speaker 2: We'll be back in a minute with the lightning round. 619 00:31:55,356 --> 00:31:59,196 Speaker 2: Let's finish with the Lightning round. Slightly more random. What's 620 00:31:59,236 --> 00:32:02,556 Speaker 2: the most things in one that you think a home 621 00:32:02,596 --> 00:32:03,636 Speaker 2: appliance could be. 622 00:32:04,236 --> 00:32:06,916 Speaker 1: We have a product that's a thirteen and one, so. 623 00:32:07,916 --> 00:32:11,396 Speaker 2: You have right now on your website the Ninja fourteen 624 00:32:11,516 --> 00:32:13,316 Speaker 2: in one possible cooker pro. 625 00:32:14,116 --> 00:32:17,676 Speaker 3: Okay, so fourteen is now the new benchmark. I'm confident 626 00:32:17,716 --> 00:32:18,756 Speaker 3: we can go to sixteen. 627 00:32:19,516 --> 00:32:24,596 Speaker 2: What's one appliance or device you wish you guys had invented? 628 00:32:24,996 --> 00:32:26,516 Speaker 1: I mean, you know in the iPhone. 629 00:32:26,556 --> 00:32:29,196 Speaker 2: I mean this is something iPhone good one. I like 630 00:32:29,236 --> 00:32:31,236 Speaker 2: your thinking big, is this something. 631 00:32:30,876 --> 00:32:34,596 Speaker 3: That good people can't live without? I mean, look, I 632 00:32:34,596 --> 00:32:36,516 Speaker 3: think there's a lot of people that can't live without 633 00:32:36,556 --> 00:32:39,996 Speaker 3: their Ninja creamy, and we've read consumer reviews. If I 634 00:32:40,036 --> 00:32:42,836 Speaker 3: can't live without it, but I think I think the 635 00:32:42,876 --> 00:32:44,756 Speaker 3: iPhone does a pretty good job of that. 636 00:32:44,756 --> 00:32:47,996 Speaker 2: That is an extremely strong answer. What's a tip for 637 00:32:48,076 --> 00:32:50,716 Speaker 2: me if I want to tell real user reviews from 638 00:32:50,756 --> 00:32:51,876 Speaker 2: fake reviews. 639 00:32:52,276 --> 00:32:56,996 Speaker 3: Look, I think there's an authenticity element that you can see, 640 00:32:57,156 --> 00:33:00,036 Speaker 3: you know, as people are talking about a product, or 641 00:33:00,076 --> 00:33:02,396 Speaker 3: particularly when they're writing about a product. 642 00:33:03,276 --> 00:33:05,116 Speaker 1: I think that people can. 643 00:33:04,956 --> 00:33:08,596 Speaker 3: Read through, you know, somebody that is reading off of 644 00:33:08,596 --> 00:33:12,876 Speaker 3: a script versus somebody that has had some aha moment. 645 00:33:13,636 --> 00:33:15,676 Speaker 2: What's one thing you learned selling T shirts as a 646 00:33:15,676 --> 00:33:17,156 Speaker 2: student at the University of Michigan. 647 00:33:17,796 --> 00:33:18,476 Speaker 1: The consumer. 648 00:33:18,516 --> 00:33:22,076 Speaker 3: I mean, if you do right by the consumer, you know, 649 00:33:22,116 --> 00:33:25,436 Speaker 3: and the consumer feels like they're getting value, they are 650 00:33:25,476 --> 00:33:28,076 Speaker 3: going to keep coming back to you. I mean, I 651 00:33:28,156 --> 00:33:31,116 Speaker 3: remember I was selling T shirts. They were five dollars 652 00:33:31,116 --> 00:33:34,396 Speaker 3: a piece at J. C. Bennett, Okay, and you know, 653 00:33:34,476 --> 00:33:37,636 Speaker 3: there were other brands at the time that were selling 654 00:33:37,756 --> 00:33:41,996 Speaker 3: you know, fifteen twenty dollars T shirts and I was 655 00:33:42,076 --> 00:33:45,836 Speaker 3: And I remember, like I never aspired to sell like 656 00:33:46,156 --> 00:33:49,676 Speaker 3: the highest end things. I aspired to, you know, have 657 00:33:49,796 --> 00:33:53,076 Speaker 3: something that delivered extraordinary value to the consumer. And even 658 00:33:53,116 --> 00:33:56,476 Speaker 3: at that time, I remember I was buying Haynes Beefy 659 00:33:56,596 --> 00:33:57,596 Speaker 3: t T shirts. 660 00:33:57,996 --> 00:34:00,476 Speaker 2: Those were good T shirts. I remember hits me fifty. 661 00:34:00,516 --> 00:34:02,876 Speaker 3: They were good quality, and I remember there was a 662 00:34:02,916 --> 00:34:06,796 Speaker 3: competitor at the time that was selling fifty to fifty 663 00:34:06,996 --> 00:34:11,076 Speaker 3: polyester cotton T shirts and minds were Haynes BFT at 664 00:34:11,236 --> 00:34:13,236 Speaker 3: five dollars screen printed. 665 00:34:14,196 --> 00:34:18,796 Speaker 2: Actual shark versus actual Ninja battle to the death, who wins? 666 00:34:19,596 --> 00:34:22,356 Speaker 3: And that's like asking like which one of your kids 667 00:34:22,516 --> 00:34:23,476 Speaker 3: would win or something. 668 00:34:23,476 --> 00:34:26,156 Speaker 2: Come on, but it's not the metaphor. Not the metaphor 669 00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:27,276 Speaker 2: set aside the company. 670 00:34:27,476 --> 00:34:31,156 Speaker 1: Look a Ninja's pretty cunning. I mean so yeah, yeah, 671 00:34:31,796 --> 00:34:32,396 Speaker 1: it's hard to go. 672 00:34:32,516 --> 00:34:35,076 Speaker 2: How much water is there? Seems like the obvious question 673 00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:38,196 Speaker 2: to be right, like the more water, the worse for 674 00:34:38,236 --> 00:34:41,636 Speaker 2: the ninja. Thank you for your time. It was delightful 675 00:34:41,676 --> 00:34:42,276 Speaker 2: to talk with you. 676 00:34:42,436 --> 00:34:43,916 Speaker 1: Same here. Thanks for having me. 677 00:34:49,676 --> 00:34:53,956 Speaker 2: Mark Barochus is the CEO of Shark Ninja. Today's show 678 00:34:54,236 --> 00:34:57,636 Speaker 2: was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang and Leo Rose. It 679 00:34:57,796 --> 00:35:01,196 Speaker 2: was edited by Lydia Jenekutt, and it was engineered by 680 00:35:01,236 --> 00:35:04,556 Speaker 2: Sarah mcgare. You can email us at problem at pushkin 681 00:35:04,636 --> 00:35:08,196 Speaker 2: dot fm. Please do email us. You can also find 682 00:35:08,196 --> 00:35:12,436 Speaker 2: me on LinkedIn. I'm on x at Jacob Goldstein. Thanks 683 00:35:12,476 --> 00:35:14,956 Speaker 2: for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode 684 00:35:14,956 --> 00:35:21,316 Speaker 2: of let's Your Problem.