Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Drive.
Speaker 2: I'm Dale Ali. He is the Matt Williamson and Matt
Speaker 2: there's some interesting articles here that looking at me. We're
Speaker 2: gonna do a little fantasy football focus here. Yes Thursday,
Speaker 2: so I saw an FT and Fantasy They made mention of, well,
Speaker 2: there's a couple couple different stories here.
Speaker 1: The first one on FT and fantasy stuff out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I told you. Aaron Schotz was on my podcast. Had
Speaker 1: a really good conversation with him for half an hour.
Speaker 2: What do you say about the Steelers ranking?
Speaker 1: I kind of avoided it. We do like three rookie class, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we were talking more about the matchups and how
Speaker 1: strong the Ravens and Niners are in dvo A history,
Speaker 1: and we kind of mentioned, you know, the top couple
Speaker 1: of rookie classes. I'm like, I think you sold Steelers
Speaker 1: a little short and he's like maybe, and we just
Speaker 1: kind of brushed it off, but I didn't dig deep
Speaker 1: into it, but we did good talk. He's a good dude.
Speaker 2: So they have an article here what changed in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three And we've talked a little bit about this
Speaker 2: tight ends. It's no longer lonely at the top there's
Speaker 2: more than one tight end now, yeah, worth having that's.
Speaker 1: Changing drastically, and.
Speaker 2: That would be one thing that if I'm the Steeler,
Speaker 2: if I'm Mike Tomlin, and he talked to Dave's like,
Speaker 2: I want I want a new offensive coordinator who's going
Speaker 2: to take advantage of all of our offensive weapons. Pat
Speaker 2: Froermouth to me, is one that they live untapped.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I mean he's had We saw that he
Speaker 1: can have big games still and I do think there
Speaker 1: were some injuries this year, but there was plenty times
Speaker 1: where he just didn't get utilized enough. And I kind
Speaker 1: of look at them as the horsey on the chess board,
Speaker 1: you know, like they're just a little weird. They're a
Speaker 1: little different, but you match up it. But if you
Speaker 1: know how to use them, man, they're dangerous suckers. And
Speaker 1: in the fantasy world, not to digress too much, but
Speaker 1: I remember some of my ESPN responsibilities were I went
Speaker 1: to the Fantasy Summit every year and there are eleven
Speaker 1: of us that had to vote, and so basically we're
Speaker 1: there for like a week and whenever you guys would
Speaker 1: go on your you know, anyone use the ESPN uh
Speaker 1: fantasy software and you see the tight end ranks US
Speaker 1: eleven built that. Yeah, and so we all kind of
Speaker 1: argue for our point. And I remember it's a old
Speaker 1: I am. I mean Eric Ebron's rookie year. He was
Speaker 1: a super high pick and huge discussion. This guy is
Speaker 1: a super talent. He's going to a great spot. But
Speaker 1: rookie rookie tight ends never produced. That's the rule. That's
Speaker 1: the rule, and it kind of has been. But lately
Speaker 1: it's switching, like I don't think that's a rule anymore.
Speaker 1: And look at Laporta, Kincaid, even Pitts his rookie year.
Speaker 1: I mean it over a thousand yards touchdowns, but like
Speaker 1: they're coming in the league and doing more now too.
Speaker 2: Well, if you think about with Friarmouth, even his first
Speaker 2: two seasons he had sixty plus catches. He was only
Speaker 2: the second tight end in league history. Wow, to have
Speaker 2: sixty plus catches in each of his first two seasons.
Speaker 2: That's going to change next year.
Speaker 1: Ye get back to that group.
Speaker 2: Is that group is going. I'm just saying overall in
Speaker 2: the league, that group is going. It's not going to
Speaker 2: be just Pat far.
Speaker 1: And Keith Jackson was the other one. Jackson rumbling stumbling
Speaker 1: bubble or something like that.
Speaker 2: Right, it was a tremendous you know, Laporta Muskray. These
Speaker 2: guys are going to right now some you know, I
Speaker 2: think Kinkaid and Laporter were the only two rookies that
Speaker 2: got over sixty probably, but they're both probably going to
Speaker 2: get over sixty again next year unless they get hurt.
Speaker 1: But like McBride didn't do anything as a rookie, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but then blew up in his second year, and I
Speaker 1: bet he think goes over sixty next year, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So, like, there are a lot more
Speaker 1: tight ends, even if Kelsey and Waller and some of
Speaker 1: these guys are fading off quickly, but more coming to
Speaker 1: the league and more. I think it's some of a
Speaker 1: sort of a coordinator thing. More are contributing early.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, now it is more of the pass
Speaker 2: catching tight ends. You're not going to ask those guys
Speaker 2: to be blockers necessarily. No, they're big guys, but they're
Speaker 2: not blockers. They're coming in it from college programs. The
Speaker 2: college programs are playing a spread offense. Yeah, they're being
Speaker 2: used as chess pieces at the college level in a
Speaker 2: big way to catch passes.
Speaker 1: The best example is going to be rock power. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, my he go fifth overall, mighty, go twelve,
Speaker 1: but he's gonna go in the first half of round one,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have this discussion, Well rookie tight ends
Speaker 1: z and blah blah blah. Yeah, because he's also not
Speaker 1: with all, he's not Mark Bruner. You have to look
Speaker 1: at him as a receiver. Yeah, yeah, I mean we
Speaker 1: talked about this a fair amount last week because the
Speaker 1: Bills are a great example. How often do we talk
Speaker 1: about eleven personnel twelve personnel. Teams want eleven and a
Speaker 1: half personnel, you know, they want Kinkaid and Knox to
Speaker 1: be out there, but Kincaid can do receiver stuff. So
Speaker 1: we don't really have an answer for eleven and a
Speaker 1: half personnel as a defense, right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Well, just think about the success had a lot to
Speaker 2: do with this, the success the Steelers had this year
Speaker 2: at times with the thirteen package that they played there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: What's the answer. Yeah, what's the answer for that?
Speaker 2: Because you've got and they've Yeah, I mean, you always
Speaker 2: bring up the basketball analogy with you when you're when
Speaker 2: you're building your wide receiver room, your receiver room. These
Speaker 2: these tight ends, you've got power forward. That's basically what
Speaker 2: they are, right in that group or the center.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the Steelers three don't look anything alive.
Speaker 2: Nothing alike, Like if the room, you wouldn't know they
Speaker 2: were all.
Speaker 1: The same species, right, one's a fullback. One looks like
Speaker 1: a big d lineman, you know, right, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and they do things differently. So you're crazy if you're
Speaker 1: a defense if you count Hayward and Washington as the
Speaker 1: same player, right, They're just not. And another thing is,
Speaker 1: and the Steelers have experiences good and bad. There's such
Speaker 1: a shortage of second level defenders that you can just
Speaker 1: leave at the Fred Warners and Rokwond you just leave
Speaker 1: out there. So who do you exploit those guys with,
Speaker 1: you know, right, right right? Or you try to get
Speaker 1: as many of them on the fields. You probably want
Speaker 1: to keep.
Speaker 2: Those mediocre inside linebackers on the field as opposed to
Speaker 2: the defensive backs who are much better, They're much more skilled.
Speaker 1: It was actually one of the things the Bills did
Speaker 1: really well against the Steelers was everyone knows, especially with
Speaker 1: their status there linebackers, the Steelers are a heavy base
Speaker 1: team or they're a heavy dime team. So coming into
Speaker 1: that game, all of a sudden, their dime package looked
Speaker 1: a lot better than it did. Maybe this back Kz's back.
Speaker 1: So what the Bills do, This is good coaching. They
Speaker 1: put a sixth offensive lineman on the field for a
Speaker 1: third of their snaps to make the Steelers heavy, you know,
Speaker 1: and therefore you're gonna get Walker or a compromised Roberts
Speaker 1: and try to get them matched up on Kinkaid. That's
Speaker 1: today's football. I mean, that's what the Steelers should try
Speaker 1: to do with Muth. Yeah, and they have done some
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be a huge part. You know,
Speaker 2: everybody wants to focus on the quarterback here. I think
Speaker 2: you need to bring the best out of Pat Firemouth.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And he's actually getting a point too where it
Speaker 1: might be extension time for him soon. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, he just finished year three and so he'll
Speaker 2: have one year left.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not worried about him at all, by
Speaker 1: the way, No, I'm not either.
Speaker 2: In fact, you know, when he was asked about if
Speaker 2: any of the young players stepped up in a way
Speaker 2: that he hadn't expected in terms of leadership, he said, yeah,
Speaker 2: we've had, we had some guys that, you know, you
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily expect that to happen, and they did. And
Speaker 2: he said, well, can you name any people you know
Speaker 2: who are you talking about there? And one guy that
Speaker 2: he mentioned was Pat Firemoth.
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean he seems quiet. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know him. I mean, but that's great to hear. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, like Nause steps up and says his piece.
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of good things about Roderick Jones
Speaker 1: in that capacity too, So maybe they are some of
Speaker 1: these young dudes. Yeah, the next generation of leaders is
Speaker 1: starting to sprout. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I think the tight end position. And
Speaker 2: I tie that into this because I saw this article
Speaker 2: on CBS Sports dot Com and it's it's really right,
Speaker 2: all eight division round teams, the final eight teams have
Speaker 2: this one thing in common, and that one thing that
Speaker 2: they have in common is very good tight end play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're dangerous tight ends. Yeah, and I agree. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there's an art to using those guys properly.
Speaker 1: There's certainly a bigger need for them. There's an influx
Speaker 1: of them coming from the college ranks. As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: some wide receivers just start to blow up and turn
Speaker 1: into a tight end. And it used to be like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you don't block anybody, we don't care. You're playing
Speaker 1: in the Big twelve anyways, and you just run space anyways,
Speaker 1: preferably against linebackers and safeties. But if we go through
Speaker 1: the teams, it's kind of a who's who with the
Speaker 1: tight ends in the league right now. I mean it
Speaker 1: really is. Campa's the only one that's so so, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they may not be in this thing much longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that to me is the big Like again,
Speaker 2: I Tampa was the one team that I wanted to
Speaker 2: get one of those teams that I wanted to go
Speaker 2: against in the first round of the playoffs, and I
Speaker 2: couldn't because they were playing Philadelphia, which is one the
Speaker 2: team that I wanted to go against.
Speaker 1: The most in the playoffs. And it's been a great
Speaker 1: year for Tampa. They've out kicked their coverage, but they
Speaker 1: played a broken Eagles team and I think they're in
Speaker 1: for a long day this upcoming. It's going to be
Speaker 1: a very long day.
Speaker 2: But you know, you look at the rest of them,
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, they get I mean, I know, you're
Speaker 2: not the biggest Dalton Kink or not Dalton k Dalton
Speaker 2: Schultz guy.
Speaker 1: But he's a quality player, quality player. Yeah, and even
Speaker 1: Brevin Jordan there's not a bad player too. He's a
Speaker 1: dangerous move guy, just as as kind of their Connor
Speaker 1: Hayward type. So I mean, let's think of him. Aten's
Speaker 1: the one I don't think is tremendous, but they're very
Speaker 1: happy with the talent. Yeah or yeah, Kittle Kiddle might
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. I mean, Kittle's a dangerous player
Speaker 1: that if he wasn't playing with you know, great receivers
Speaker 1: all over the place, he might be an eighty catch
Speaker 1: a year type of guy routinely. And I don't even
Speaker 1: know what is.
Speaker 2: He's the only he's the only tight end in the
Speaker 2: league this year to get there a thousand yards?
Speaker 1: Was he really tremendous after the catch? No, I don't
Speaker 1: think Laporta did get it. I don't know, but he's
Speaker 1: still in it. Laport is still in it. The young
Speaker 1: pair in Green Bay. People might not realize, but they've
Speaker 1: come on huge. Musgrave I loved coming out of school
Speaker 1: and took him a while, and then he got hurt
Speaker 1: and Croft stuff huge, and now they they're really set
Speaker 1: for a while.
Speaker 2: Then they end up drafting two of the top five
Speaker 2: tight ends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this year's awesome tight end draft. Yeah, and awesome
Speaker 1: tight end draft. And then you look at Baltimore. Andrews
Speaker 1: is practicing again. By the way, it was a full participant, Yes,
Speaker 1: was he really and likely they kind of didn't even
Speaker 1: miss a beat with him. So they've got a pair
Speaker 1: of him. Now we already saw what the Bills can do.
Speaker 1: Kelsey goes without saying even if he's not quite what
Speaker 1: he used to be, and Schultz is good. Yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: like those are dangerous dudes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it may not be the flashy you know, Tony Gonzalez. Sure,
Speaker 2: thirteen hundred yards or something like that, you know, or
Speaker 2: you know, classic Kelsey, you know when he's in his prime,
Speaker 2: one hundred catches and thirteen hundred yards. But if you
Speaker 2: get you know, sixty five catches for eight hundred yards
Speaker 2: out of your tight end.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean eight years out of ten, Laporta
Speaker 1: would win Rookie of the Year. Yeah, Kelsey, Kittle, Kelsey's
Speaker 1: going to the Hall of Fame and moonwalking in. Kittle's
Speaker 1: got a chance and some of those young guys are
Speaker 1: very promising, the Concaids of the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the best in the league for a
Speaker 2: long time. It was you know, in fantasy drafts, you
Speaker 2: draft a tight end. If you're going to draft the
Speaker 2: tight end, just wait unless you're getting one of those top.
Speaker 1: Two or three guys. Yeah. Now I think the landscape
Speaker 1: is much different.
Speaker 2: I mean, I I drafted Andrews this year in the
Speaker 2: league that we were in, uh.
Speaker 1: In the.
Speaker 2: Was the top of the fourth round, the third even
Speaker 2: maybe late late third tight end off.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was, but it was late third round.
Speaker 2: Then we got to that point and I'm like, there
Speaker 2: was none of the running backs that I really wanted
Speaker 2: to take there.
Speaker 1: And I think he was falling past adp when you
Speaker 1: because I know, yeah, he was walking that. I got
Speaker 1: to get Mark Andrews.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I'd much you know, rather pivoted to one
Speaker 2: of the younger guys later.
Speaker 1: Just kind of now you can do that, Now you
Speaker 1: can do that. Yeah, I mean, and then there's some
Speaker 1: dudes like Ingram and the Jokus that are kind of
Speaker 1: hitting their stride.
Speaker 2: Han Ingram led tight ends and targets this year.
Speaker 1: I think catches too. By a bunch by a bunch, right,
Speaker 1: I mean those those are like the traditionals. Well, it
Speaker 1: takes till you're about twenty seven to start hitting your
Speaker 1: stride blah blah blah, and they are you know, I
Speaker 1: mean so Joku m same class. You know Howard didn't
Speaker 1: work out of that class. He still struggles catching the ball,
Speaker 1: yes he does, but they throw to him a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean you wouldn't mind have him on fantasy this year?
Speaker 2: Yeah for you. I think he's a better fantasy player
Speaker 2: than he is in real life.
Speaker 1: But trying to think who's something, I mean, Dallas Goddard
Speaker 1: still a really player, Like I don't think I can
Speaker 1: count of a Waller anymore. But maybe Mayor with the
Speaker 1: Raiders is going to blow up here, you know, So
Speaker 1: there's a lot of them to pick from.
Speaker 2: Now you mentioned, you know the kid in Arizona.
Speaker 1: There's both mcbrides. Yeah. McBride's used to be a really
Speaker 1: high picking fantasy right here.
Speaker 2: I mean it's you know, tight end used to just
Speaker 2: be a.
Speaker 1: Spot that you just hope he catches a touchdown. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: I'll take you know, three for forty and a touchdown
Speaker 2: is what you're looking for not anymore.
Speaker 1: No either going all in on a Kelsey who might
Speaker 1: win me the league, or I'm just going to hope
Speaker 1: that he falls in the end zone somehow, you know,
Speaker 1: some big goof you know, And it's not how it
Speaker 1: works anymore. These guys are after the catch specialists, move
Speaker 1: all around. Some of them run obscenely low for you
Speaker 1: forties and things like that too. So and a lot
Speaker 1: of them come in the league year after year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they taught the ten tight ends. They they
Speaker 2: have top ten tight ends on average what they produced
Speaker 2: this year. That includes the two rookies Tucker Craft and
Speaker 2: Musgrave and Kate Aughton with so you know, you're reading
Speaker 2: some guys who weren't exactly star stars. Yeah yeah, but
Speaker 2: the eight playoff teams they're still alive. Their average tight
Speaker 2: end production was fifty six point three catches for six
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty three yards and four point six touchdowns.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that's pretty good. I mean, that's a valuable contributor.
Speaker 1: That's what Friarmuth should have. That's what I was gonna say. Like,
Speaker 1: if you look at Pickens and Johnson, this is a
Speaker 1: credit to them, but in a way they had way
Speaker 1: too much of the receiving yards between the two of them,
Speaker 1: you know, like there was a big drop from who
Speaker 1: was number three as a Steelers third best receiver. I
Speaker 1: think it was Warren.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he ended up with right the most catches.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with respect to him, he's a great, great receiver.
Speaker 1: But that needs to be Friarmuth or an early pick
Speaker 1: receiver or you know, one more dangerous downfield guy, you know,
Speaker 1: and Farman is very capable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I'm with you. I think that's something that
Speaker 2: you know, when Mike Tomlin sits down with whoever that
Speaker 2: that offensive corner, how can you bet that first question
Speaker 2: is how can you, you know, better help my quarterback
Speaker 2: play better?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, how can we turn him into a guy?
Speaker 2: The second question is how do you bring more out
Speaker 2: of the tight end position on this team? We need
Speaker 2: to we need to get more of that and scheme
Speaker 2: things up a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: Hm. No, we had an untapped resource here and that
Speaker 1: isn't gonna fly.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, if George Pickens is George Pickens, Deontay Johnson,
Speaker 2: those guys are going to get theirs.
Speaker 1: But we need to we need to.
Speaker 2: Diversify a little bit across the board.
Speaker 1: No question, no question, and Friar moves very capable of
Speaker 1: the thing. You got you you don't have to go
Speaker 1: get him right, he's on the on the roster, it's
Speaker 1: been successful and he passes the eyeball task easily too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: high quality player.
Speaker 2: Well, let's get to another break because I want this
Speaker 2: next segment to be a little lengthy here. So he
Speaker 2: is Matt Williamson. I am Dale, Lollie. That's going to
Speaker 2: do it for the Fantasy Football Focus. Uh, tomorrow we
Speaker 2: will pick our DFS lineups for the weekend.
Speaker 1: All right, we get, we love it. Yeah, we get.
Speaker 2: We can do a Saturday and the Sunday schedule where
Speaker 2: it could just do one big I don't know what.
Speaker 1: We'll figure figure a big beefy one huh. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But we're gonna get to a break now. We'll
Speaker 2: be back with more in a drive right after this.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 2: I'm Dale Ali, he is the Matt Williamson and Matt,
Speaker 2: what do I wanted to do here in this segment
Speaker 2: is kind of go position by position and then get
Speaker 2: your grade for the season on said positions.
Speaker 1: I mean it's just quarterback, right and we're not talking
Speaker 1: about versus verus that guy.
Speaker 2: Okay, so well, you mentioned it's let's start at quarterback.
Speaker 2: You went ten and seven with this group, but you
Speaker 2: played Kenny Pickett, you played mitchter Bisky started two games,
Speaker 2: Mason Rudolph started three four if you count the playoff game,
Speaker 2: and they produced thirty four and twenty one yards, thirteen touchdowns,
Speaker 2: nine interceptions.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna do my best to do these in
Speaker 1: comparison to thirty one other position rooms not my expectations,
Speaker 1: or boy, it was a nice story that this guy
Speaker 1: played better than expected or I've hoped for when we
Speaker 1: can talk all through those things anyway, but I think
Speaker 1: you have to give it a C minus. I mean,
Speaker 1: there were some good things. I'm going to put a
Speaker 1: lot of value into valuing the football. I am too.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that comes into play here quite
Speaker 1: a bit.
Speaker 2: One that you won the interception battle against other teams, yeah, sixteen.
Speaker 1: To nine, and you won a lot of those games,
Speaker 1: and you won a lot of the fumble too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Rudolph's play at the end of the year was very,
Speaker 1: very good. But a number you said there is hard
Speaker 1: to get around. I mean, thirteen touching touchdowns, Yeah, they
Speaker 1: ain't could have cut it. Put it this way.
Speaker 2: So the Steelers quarterbacks this season, the Steelers passers finished
Speaker 2: with a quarterback rating a passer rating of eighty four
Speaker 2: point six. Opposing quarterbacks against the Steelers this season finished
Speaker 2: with the passer rating of eighty four point seven.
Speaker 1: Oh how about that?
Speaker 2: There you go, And they threw sixteen interceptions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and more touchdowns more touchdowns. It was
Speaker 1: only twenty three. It's not on that you know, ageous number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if that could get to a B minus, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's probably two more wins if patrids just in general.
Speaker 2: Eighteen touchdown passes, yeah.
Speaker 1: Right right. I mean I don't think twenty is too
Speaker 1: much to ask for.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think any offense averaging one per game
Speaker 2: more or.
Speaker 1: Less is not not going to get it done, right
Speaker 1: or yeah, less than it's not gonna get it done.
Speaker 1: It would be nice to get to one point per game,
Speaker 1: and I think that's asking too much. So, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: below the standard, I mean, below the average.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on to the running back position.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go B plus. Okay. I mean I don't
Speaker 1: think it's the best in the league, but I don't
Speaker 1: think it's all that far off as a room. No.
Speaker 2: I think I think when you look at the duo,
Speaker 2: the only one that you would say is clearly better
Speaker 2: than that duo is the one in Detroit.
Speaker 1: I don't know it's clearly. I mean, Games is really dynamic.
Speaker 2: I mean you could you could argue that Atlanta with
Speaker 2: with Algier and and Bijean is pretty good.
Speaker 1: But I mean McCaffrey at anyone. You know that type
Speaker 1: of argument obviously, But no, I thought those guys both
Speaker 1: had their best seasons as a pro. Warren as a
Speaker 1: receiver is really really impressive. I think Harris gives you
Speaker 1: enough in that regard. His attitude, runs, especially late in
Speaker 1: the year, have a ripple effect that you won't see
Speaker 1: on the stat sheet. Yeah, I mean, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: think you're really happy with that round.
Speaker 2: I mean, you got eighteen hundred rushing yards and twelve
Speaker 2: rushing touchdowns, and you also got another ninety receptions out
Speaker 2: of those two guys.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good running back. Yeah. You get a lot
Speaker 1: of production out of that room, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: So I was sniffing around today, I forget where it was,
Speaker 1: and I was just looking at explosives. So in terms
Speaker 1: of pass plays of twenty or more yards, they were
Speaker 1: only better than five offenses. Yeah, but run plays of
Speaker 1: twenty or more yards was fifth best in the league, right,
Speaker 1: you know, like you kind of see why those grades
Speaker 1: are going where they are.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't match up that way, though, because if you're
Speaker 2: running the ball that effectively, and you would think you
Speaker 2: would get more people in the box and you would
Speaker 2: have them more explosive passing plays.
Speaker 1: But I think my hunches those passing plays came more
Speaker 1: late in the year too. I mean, some of the
Speaker 1: Pickens ones when they.
Speaker 2: Were getting explosive early in the season, they were explosive
Speaker 2: explosives like the seventy yard touchdown masses that you know,
Speaker 2: they just weren't hitting those consistently enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So no, I think you're very happy with the
Speaker 1: running back room in terms of grades. How about the receivers, hmmm,
Speaker 1: be minus. I mean, I think we can't forget that
Speaker 1: Johnson missed some time. Yeah, Pickens highs were really high.
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying his lows are low, but he
Speaker 1: had some stinker games.
Speaker 2: That's just I think that's the kind of receiver that
Speaker 2: he is.
Speaker 1: I think the next step is not having more be
Speaker 1: more consistent. You have a stinker game, be fifty yards
Speaker 1: four catchys, you know, not.
Speaker 2: Then then you know, you know he was upset that
Speaker 2: he didn't make the Pro Bowl. That's how you make
Speaker 2: the Pro Bowl.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in this.
Speaker 2: League, as you be, you know, you're consistent game in
Speaker 2: and game out.
Speaker 1: And Alan Robinson is a contributor. He's a tough grade
Speaker 1: for me because I don't care what you invested in him,
Speaker 1: but I want a better third receiver than him. But
Speaker 1: his blocking was important for the way they played the game.
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's not like he didn't have value,
Speaker 1: but I really want to upgrade there in the offseason,
Speaker 1: hopefully with one of these rookies coming out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that makes you awfully young in that room.
Speaker 1: Again, I know I have part of my concerns too, Right,
Speaker 1: you'd love to have the Hayward Bay.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you'd love to have that guy. And
Speaker 2: that's kind of what Robinson was for this group.
Speaker 1: I think that's why he's brought in. Yeah. At the
Speaker 1: same time, you know, it's.
Speaker 2: It's it's difficult to have George Pickens and you know,
Speaker 2: another rookie and Deontay Johnson. Is you know he's getting
Speaker 2: up Yeah, twenty I think he's twenty seven. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what the true answer
Speaker 2: is there. I mean, I like the talent that those
Speaker 2: guys have in that room.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but more consistency would be good.
Speaker 2: What consistency would be good? And you could do without
Speaker 2: some of the attitude at times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt I would have liked a little more
Speaker 1: out of Austin. I mean, if you if you've again
Speaker 1: going back to our camp shows, if you told me
Speaker 1: his final stat line, I'd be like, I bet it's
Speaker 1: better than that. If if that was the over under nine,
Speaker 1: I would have went over and I'd have been wrong.
Speaker 1: Some of that's on the quarterbacks one, no doubt, no
Speaker 1: doubt they have a massive ripple effect on all these positions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how about the tight end positions since we were
Speaker 2: just talking about that in the previous segment.
Speaker 1: I'm really high on Washington still and expect him to
Speaker 1: have a nice jump in year two.
Speaker 2: But Matt Pro Football Reference Pro Football Focus said he
Speaker 2: graded out as like the sixty second Oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: didn't even see that is a pass blocker. They didn't
Speaker 2: mention his run blocking. Okay, they only mentioned the pass blocking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, fine, I'm still going to give that
Speaker 1: room a low grade. Though. I think this back to
Speaker 1: our conversation of I must heart friar Mouth played bad,
Speaker 1: but you can get enough out of the room, So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give him a c. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He got thirty two catches for three hundred and eight
Speaker 2: yards and two touchdowns At of Firearmouth, Hayward was twenty
Speaker 2: three for one sixty seven. I thought they could have
Speaker 2: used him there a little better.
Speaker 1: Or right. I think he can create more mismatches and Washington.
Speaker 2: I know everybody screams about what they need to throw
Speaker 2: the botle. Washington hit ten targets, seven catches for sixty
Speaker 2: one yards.
Speaker 1: He's not a pass catcher. Yeah. Now, maybe he'll develop
Speaker 1: a little bit more with that, right, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think he can box out in the end zone and
Speaker 1: get your key first downs and that type of thing
Speaker 1: more than we saw. But all in all, I didn't
Speaker 1: love I don't want him.
Speaker 2: I don't want him having more targets than Pat Farreerman.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, people. I hope people don't
Speaker 1: look at it in that light. That's even close.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, let's let's talk about the offensive line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a mixed bag, A mixed bag.
Speaker 2: Now, there were some injuries early in the season I
Speaker 2: think kind of slowed their growth rate a little bit.
Speaker 2: But I thought, you know, probably around week six or so,
Speaker 2: they started really starting to kick into.
Speaker 1: There's definitely some high moments. I think the guards overall
Speaker 1: are a really really solid pair, well well above average.
Speaker 1: I would say it's a BB minus maybe. I mean,
Speaker 1: there isn't a star amongst them, but there might be
Speaker 1: sooner than later. I think they need a center. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do too. Yeah, I mean I think center was
Speaker 1: a liability basically start to finish. I can live with
Speaker 1: a Dan Moore, but I can't if he's your worst
Speaker 1: guy clearly in the other four or better. Okay, you know,
Speaker 1: but not with him and the center being a problem.
Speaker 1: There were injuries, but they didn't have to dig too
Speaker 1: far into their depth. They didn't, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: we sawt Chukes was really the only guy besides the
Speaker 1: five that ended that played significant snaps, so they were
Speaker 1: a little fortunate that way. He minus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would agree with that. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think there's I don't again I mean, recency bias
Speaker 2: plays into that a little bit as well, But I
Speaker 2: thought overall, I mean they protected the quarterback pretty well,
Speaker 2: pretty well.
Speaker 1: Ye you know, I know people look at the sack
Speaker 1: too well.
Speaker 2: Some of that was picket and picket and Trubisky drifting
Speaker 2: into sacks.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I mean, like if Peyton Manning
Speaker 1: was a quarterback, I don't think we'd be talking about, boy,
Speaker 1: all the pressures, all the sacks, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like some of them is dropping her eyes, being young,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. I mean quarterback lay has something
Speaker 1: to do with that too, Yeah, yeah, for sure, recognizing
Speaker 1: blitz is you know.
Speaker 2: How about the uh, let's switch switch over to the defensive
Speaker 2: side of the ball, the defensive line good.
Speaker 1: I mean it's a little bit blasphemous, and I know
Speaker 1: he had injuries, but I expected a bigger season out
Speaker 1: of Hayward because he was unbelievable the last couple of
Speaker 1: years and this year he wasn't unbelievable, but the Watses
Speaker 1: and Adams and certainly Benton were all pleasant surprises. Depth
Speaker 1: I think was strong. You know, if I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if louder Milker Leo will ever be anything in this league.
Speaker 1: But if they can't even really get on the field,
Speaker 1: I think that speaks to where you're at there. Ogan
Speaker 1: Joby was fine. I'm gonna get that group of b Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean people have been hard on Ogan Joby this year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I don't know if I he finished with forty
Speaker 2: three tackles, three sacks, not eye popping numbers, but he
Speaker 2: gave you when Hayward was out way more. I mean
Speaker 2: he was playing a lot more snaps.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
Speaker 2: They expected when to see you know, they wanted him
Speaker 2: to be a sixty percent snap guy, fifty five sixty
Speaker 2: percent snap guy, and he ends up playing eighty. And
Speaker 2: there's times when Hayward was I.
Speaker 1: Was gonna say too, it was a little less would
Speaker 1: be more from him. Yeah, you know, like he seems
Speaker 1: to be more effective in the first quarter of games
Speaker 1: if you can get him some breathers. We know he's
Speaker 1: had issues of practicing on Wednesdays and things like that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he has pain and issues, but you know
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a question with him. Is he worth
Speaker 1: bringing back at his current cost or you know, those
Speaker 1: are different conversations, but anything, he was a bad player. No,
Speaker 1: I thought he was.
Speaker 2: I thought he had, you know, made some impact plays
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I went to you.
Speaker 2: I thought that group overall was was pretty good. It
Speaker 2: was maybe the most consistent thing on the defense.
Speaker 1: All year long. Yeah, I think it waste of Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we got to give them an A. I would
Speaker 1: say B plus on the edge guys.
Speaker 2: No, I'm talking about the defensive line as a whole.
Speaker 2: I'd say B plus, just be from from the fact
Speaker 2: that are you.
Speaker 1: Just talking to big fellows? Are you talking to the
Speaker 1: edge guys, I'm talking to big fellaws. Okay, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna plus.
Speaker 2: Because I just thought that again, I thought they were
Speaker 2: kind of the glue that held things together time, especially
Speaker 2: late in the season when when you know they needed
Speaker 2: to stop the run.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were times that was quite good to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did very well against that, and there were
Speaker 2: some times early in the year when it wasn't so good,
Speaker 2: which is why I can't give him an A.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know what the numbers are, but.
Speaker 2: When they had Hayward on the field versus not having
Speaker 2: Hayward on the field, there's definitely the run numbers were
Speaker 2: much different.
Speaker 1: They were. I was just say the sack numbers just
Speaker 1: from that position group, though, I would like more. He'd
Speaker 1: like six more, you know.
Speaker 2: He'd like more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the edge guys, that's an A, that's an yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe A plus. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean you got more than I mean out of
Speaker 2: that ego. You know, twenty six thirty thirty three sacks
Speaker 2: out of your edge guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the best one of the best players on
Speaker 1: the planet. Yeah, it's one of them, right, So I
Speaker 1: mean if you took TJ out of the equation, I'd
Speaker 1: probably still give it a C plus or a B mind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean high Smith was good this year.
Speaker 1: Smith was really good this year. And those other guys
Speaker 1: aren't bad players, and no big guest promise.
Speaker 2: Really hard lineback the inside linebackers is where So when
Speaker 2: Mike Tomlin was asked about the inside linebackers, uh, he
Speaker 2: said he was when when before pre injury linebackers, he said,
Speaker 2: we were making impact plays, uh, splash plays that we
Speaker 2: of course hadn't seen, you know, in previous years. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he said, but the attrition was a part of it.
Speaker 2: You know, when you start losing guys to injury, that
Speaker 2: that becomes a part of it. Now, some of that
Speaker 2: you could look at, say the injury to co Hulkem
Speaker 2: and say that's a broken leg like that. That's not
Speaker 2: something that that's it's kind of freakish. Oh yeah, it
Speaker 2: was a freak injury, of course. But you know for
Speaker 2: a guy like Kawan Alexander, you know he has a
Speaker 2: history and yeah, there's a history there, so.
Speaker 1: Maybe you do want to do better than that. Maybe.
Speaker 1: So it's funny you said that because I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: That's what coach Salmon said. If I were to give
Speaker 1: a grade when healthy and that's what we're doing here,
Speaker 1: I would say it's a B minus that that trio
Speaker 1: in Week eight or whatever it was when they were humming.
Speaker 1: I can live with that. That's good. Yeah.
Speaker 2: If two years ago was a D, probably if.
Speaker 1: Not last year was a D. Yeah yeah, and so
Speaker 1: but for the season, I still got to I mean,
Speaker 1: we were talking about eighteen football games, including the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go see minus like Michael Walker's not gonna
Speaker 1: get done. Yeah, I mean those type of dudes. No,
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I mean, but you know you have
Speaker 1: what you had at that point. Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that's just the way it went. But if we're gonna
Speaker 1: analyze every snap of inside linebacker play for the year
Speaker 1: and round it all into one grade, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go see minus.
Speaker 2: Now that being said, I thought a Landon Roberts was
Speaker 2: a relation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's an important piece. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You look at what he did. So he had one
Speaker 2: hundred He led the team of one hundred and one tackles.
Speaker 2: He had two and a half sacks, ten tackles for
Speaker 2: a loss, six quarterback hits, two pass defensive. I mean
Speaker 2: he gave you something across the board.
Speaker 1: I think he brings an attitude to toughness that is
Speaker 1: very much desired. And you might know. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: know it's better than I do. But I can promise
Speaker 1: you three or four of those final games he was
Speaker 1: out there. He probably no business being out Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was playing on one arm, he was playing on one leg. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I have a tremendous amount of respect for
Speaker 2: that guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's somebody you want in the building. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think that attitude that he has also brings.
Speaker 1: Oh I think goes a long way. Yeah. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: plays plays a game the right way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, let's break up the corners in safety separately. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so cornerbacks. I'm gonna be hard on the secondary, really hard.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's two really good members of
Speaker 2: the secondary, one of them's Porter when we're talking corners,
Speaker 2: but I don't think Peterson or Wallace was good enough.
Speaker 2: I don't think the slot situation was good enough. So
Speaker 2: if you're analyzing, I'm gonna go C minus.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Porter stuff's really good, but those other
Speaker 1: guys are just not part of the equation for me.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I mean I would be interested in bringing
Speaker 2: Patrick Peterson back as a depth piece at this point.
Speaker 1: In a restructure probably though, Yeah, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think he's making a decent bock. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's not awful but ridiculous, right.
Speaker 2: Levi Wallace, you got to be able to do better
Speaker 2: than that. You get to be able to do better
Speaker 2: than Chandon Sullivan, Right.
Speaker 1: You just don't have enough athleticism in the back end
Speaker 1: right now, and Peterson's part of that problem unfortunately at
Speaker 1: this stage. But I think he has some traits in
Speaker 1: leadership you love. But there's only two guys.
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't hate it if Peterson next year is
Speaker 2: back in the KZ role, maybe as your as your
Speaker 2: third safety is the guy who plays the post when
Speaker 2: Minka comes down and plays.
Speaker 1: More so than in an olexide corner. Yeah. I'd be
Speaker 1: more open to that idea, for sure. And I don't
Speaker 1: want him out there as my strong safety, no, no,
Speaker 1: but he's open to it, And I mean I think
Speaker 1: that's a transition he could make. Didn't see enough to
Speaker 1: say it was a success or not. And he'd get
Speaker 1: better at it, of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, But I mean Porter's an A, but the rest
Speaker 1: of the group's D. So I'm gonna give it as Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear you.
Speaker 2: Uh, the safety position.
Speaker 1: Similar but a little better. I don't know the KZ
Speaker 1: is really an answer. I think he's a third or
Speaker 1: fourth row. Was a nice find. But if we're talking
Speaker 1: about eighteen games, he only appeared in what four of
Speaker 1: them for the playoffs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in those four games he had, he was good,
Speaker 2: like thirty nine tackles. Yeah, I mean he was your
Speaker 2: leading tackler and basically every one of those games. And
Speaker 2: he had a couple of pass defenses, he had a
Speaker 2: forced fumble, three tackles for a loss, like he.
Speaker 1: Was really good. He was impacts. I definitely want him
Speaker 1: in the mix next year. Yeah, if he's up for it,
Speaker 1: I feel they make it. Is the best safety in
Speaker 1: the league. But if we the analyze his misstime hurts
Speaker 1: the grade, right, I mean, no, he played in ten games,
Speaker 1: played in ten games, right, didn't care about the takeaways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't have the takeaways three pass defenses, but
Speaker 2: it's sixty four tackles in those ten games.
Speaker 1: He did a lot of important stuff too.
Speaker 2: You know, people are killing him for the for the
Speaker 2: playoff games, and I thought he had a terrible I'm like,
Speaker 2: what game are you watching?
Speaker 1: And I never see like he heard that he had.
Speaker 2: Two tackles for a loss on James Cook when when
Speaker 2: Cook caught the football. I thought he was going to
Speaker 2: have a big game, and all of a sudden, Inca
Speaker 2: comes flying in out of nowhere and gets them on
Speaker 2: the ground both times.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give that position a CEE for the year
Speaker 1: in eighteen grade grade, I mean eight of them are
Speaker 1: without your best guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean that's that's just the reality of it.
Speaker 2: How about specialists, Well, that's what I was going to
Speaker 2: the specialist here.
Speaker 1: Could we break them up. I think we should. It
Speaker 1: makes a grade a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, the the kicking game in terms of putting
Speaker 2: points on the board. I thought Boswell had one of
Speaker 2: his best seasons.
Speaker 1: A yeah. I mean there's a many kickers I trade
Speaker 1: him for. He's phenomenal. I mean he was making long kicks.
Speaker 2: He you know, they trotted them out there for you know,
Speaker 2: fifty nine yarders he missed.
Speaker 1: Me he missed one extra point and two kicks one extra.
Speaker 2: Point, yeah, and one kick that was sixty yards in
Speaker 2: the rain.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I think he missed two kicks on the year. R. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean so no kicker is an A. Yes, punters
Speaker 1: a D.
Speaker 2: The overall special teams coverage units I thought were pretty good.
Speaker 1: What if we just call special teams the whole thing,
Speaker 1: I would say, I mean, including the kick blocks and
Speaker 1: the returners. Yeah, Boz, I would say, that's a bee.
Speaker 1: And the punning game is not good enough.
Speaker 2: The punning game is not good enough. No, they have
Speaker 2: to that has to be upgrade.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that has to. But that's the only thing I
Speaker 1: look at and think think of special teams as a whole.
Speaker 1: I can't live with. Yeah, you know, going in the next.
Speaker 2: And I don't even know at this point. I've seen
Speaker 2: enough of Presley Harvin that I don't even know if
Speaker 2: I want him to come and compete for a g Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think I need that anymore next.
Speaker 2: Year because and here's why we've seen this. We've we've
Speaker 2: sat there and watched him kick the ball in training camp,
Speaker 2: and he kicks the snot out of it when the
Speaker 2: weather's great.
Speaker 1: Brother's great, No one's rushing him. Yeah, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's try that guy special. Yeah, I'd rather not be
Speaker 1: teased by him. Yeah, let him go to New York
Speaker 1: or LA or whatever.
Speaker 2: Let him go to New Orleans where he can kick indoors.
Speaker 2: He might be an all pro, he might lead the
Speaker 2: league and punting then, right, but he struggles in weather conditions.
Speaker 2: There's just no ifans or butts of Oh.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, but watching him live, folks, when you're when the
Speaker 1: weather's nice and toasty and it's sunny, he can be It's.
Speaker 2: Like watching Tiger Woods at a golf ball.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Oh that sounds different than everybody else.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean you can get sucked in easily. I
Speaker 1: with you. I hadn't thought of that angle. But I
Speaker 1: don't want to bring the camp because I don't want
Speaker 1: to fall for the tricks anymore. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you do bring him in, he's the one
Speaker 2: that you trade. Not that anybody's probably going to do that,
Speaker 2: but uh yeah, I need I need an upgrade there.
Speaker 2: But you know, the return game, first of all, nobody
Speaker 2: returns kicks anymore.
Speaker 1: But punt was okay, they did, I mean, well, it
Speaker 1: was above average is a return game overall?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Calvin Austin ended up averaging eight point six yards
Speaker 2: per punt return. He didn't break the big one, but
Speaker 2: he had a thirty four yarder that was very big.
Speaker 2: That was in the game against was it Cincinnati the
Speaker 2: second time around?
Speaker 1: I think so it was at home. Yeah. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he's dangerous and he's reliable catching the football too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't put it on the ground, and yeah, fine
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, that was fine.
Speaker 2: In terms of the kick return, they ever judge twenty
Speaker 2: three and a half yards per return?
Speaker 1: You know you didn't.
Speaker 2: There weren't that many, you know, when you turn twenty four,
Speaker 2: I put.
Speaker 1: A lot I've put a lot less weight on that
Speaker 1: than I do any of the other things we talked about.
Speaker 1: And I think abillity to block punts and kicks. It's huge.
Speaker 2: There's a game changing Yeah, those are game.
Speaker 1: Changing place the Steelers somewhat in that Bills game. Without that,
Speaker 1: it's not even close to it. Yeah, being the same result. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's happened several times this year.
Speaker 2: And it's not that it's not an accident.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the Muykens and Killer Brews and those guys are
Speaker 1: quite good at what they do. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I agree. I think they they're very good. But
Speaker 2: you need to upgrade the punter position. There's just no
Speaker 2: ifans or busts about it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know your answer. But if I said,
Speaker 1: take the exact same special team performance from twenty twenty
Speaker 1: three with a new punter and paste it into twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four, you definitely.
Speaker 2: I'm on board.
Speaker 1: You definitely take it. I'm on board.
Speaker 2: Yeah, get me somebody who who is I don't even
Speaker 2: care if he if he averages fifty.
Speaker 1: Yards whatever, he doesn't give me forty.
Speaker 2: Five yards every single time.
Speaker 1: Kept the liability to go along with yeah, right and
Speaker 1: be the twentieth best punter in the league or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There were a few more penalties on special teams than
Speaker 1: you'd like, But I don't think the numbers were seen.
Speaker 1: I think that's a league It is a league thing.
Speaker 2: I think that's to me, that's something because you see
Speaker 2: them on on some things and you're like, as the
Speaker 2: league told officials that they just don't want teams returning
Speaker 2: the ball, so you just start calling penalties on them
Speaker 2: just I think so, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think there are some rules are have gone that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so I've had a lot of buddies. A lot
Speaker 1: of people are like, man, special teams are so disorganized
Speaker 1: and like that's how they all are. I mean they
Speaker 1: really are. I mean, yeah, they had some penalties, but
Speaker 1: everyone does, and their special teams penalties aren't higher than
Speaker 1: anybody else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking about the you know, fortieth through fifty
Speaker 2: third guys on your roster. Those are the guys that
Speaker 2: are out there on special teams. Yeah, and Tjan ain't out.
Speaker 1: There and they get shuffled like crazy. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: sometimes especially with this team this year. Yeah, the linebackers
Speaker 1: and safeties and all those dudes.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't know, Danny's smith probably needed a que
Speaker 2: card to get tell him who was in his room
Speaker 2: at times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean some of those weird numbers are all
Speaker 1: wearing to linebackers like who are you again? So I'll
Speaker 1: give special teams to be the top to bottom led
Speaker 1: by balls of course.
Speaker 2: In the kickblocks, yeah, I mean those are two the
Speaker 2: two big areas, two big areas.
Speaker 1: I mean, no team had a combination of those things better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine you know, you know, I know Baltimore always
Speaker 2: finishes high on that stuff. But they didn't block kicks
Speaker 2: like the Steelers did.
Speaker 1: I have no idea who else did, But I can't
Speaker 1: imagine anyone has as good a commodation of kicker and
Speaker 1: blocked kicks and puns, Yeah, which are game changers.
Speaker 2: They are game changers.
Speaker 1: Get a better punter.
Speaker 2: So that brings us to coaching.
Speaker 1: B minus. I mean, you made an offensive coordinator change
Speaker 1: mid season. But I think there's something to be said
Speaker 1: for not having the wheels come off late in the
Speaker 1: year and getting the team into the playoffs. I know
Speaker 1: wants to hear that he was another winning season. Big deal.
Speaker 1: It's a big deal.
Speaker 2: It's a big seventeen in a row. Again, it's not
Speaker 2: an accident.
Speaker 1: They were ten and seven yan. Yeah, defense, I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone's going to complain about defensive coordination or boy,
Speaker 1: they got out coached drastically on the defensive side of
Speaker 1: the ball. I mean, I wouldn't say it was an
Speaker 1: eight plus on that side of the ball, rightither, But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a tough one, of course. I mean, because they
Speaker 1: get dealt different things. I go C plus B minus
Speaker 1: I think is fair. I mean, the fact you made
Speaker 1: a coordinator change is hurts a great a lot obviously, Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: but I think their head coach is really good at
Speaker 1: what he does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think you do have to You
Speaker 2: don't have to separate those things because coaching is coaching.
Speaker 1: It's really broad term though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you' won ten games this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's a little different than analyzing the
Speaker 1: tight ends. Yeah. First of all, I can see the
Speaker 1: tight ends every that and rewind it and look it over.
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 2: I mean, look what happened on Vegas. Told us at
Speaker 2: the beginning of the season, this was an eight and
Speaker 2: a half win team. You won more than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The the the fact that you were able to win
Speaker 2: games early in the season when you were consistently being
Speaker 2: outpossessed and not doing anything on offense, and you still
Speaker 2: found ways to win those games that means something.
Speaker 1: That means something, and winning winning one score games has
Speaker 1: become I know some people think that that, oh it's
Speaker 1: coming back to the mean, and all the analytic folks
Speaker 1: will tell you that, but Tomlin's the best in the
Speaker 1: league at it.
Speaker 2: Like it's not by accident. I mean, you know how
Speaker 2: to do this, and you you know.
Speaker 1: You put yourself position.
Speaker 2: You not only know how to do it, but you
Speaker 2: know how to get your team to put itself in
Speaker 2: position to get.
Speaker 1: In position to be in it in the end. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even if you're getting out played. Yeah, and there's there
Speaker 1: that's that's coaching. That's coaching. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyways, that's our grades for this for the season
Speaker 2: for the team. I didn't write them down to roll through.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, yeah, but you know, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: we didn't.
Speaker 2: There weren't many what one one A edge edge guys,
Speaker 2: edge guys, that was.
Speaker 1: It, and an A plus running backs, there were B plus,
Speaker 1: there were be There were some b's in there and
Speaker 1: some c's. If we.
Speaker 2: If we had just done punting, yeah.
Speaker 1: But man, we don't give out a's like I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a pretty steep curve. I mean there's thirty two
Speaker 1: other teams that you're competing against.
Speaker 2: Right, anyways, we're gonna get to another break. He is
Speaker 2: the Matt Williamson. I'm Dale Lollie. You're listening to the
Speaker 2: drive here on Steelers Nation Radio. We'll be back to
Speaker 2: finish up the show right after this. Welcome back. I'm
Speaker 2: Dale Lollie. He is the Matt Williamson. And Steeler fans
Speaker 2: you can, of course, I get find the reader, right,
Speaker 2: we don't have to read ready, that's dumb one. We
Speaker 2: were talking about stuff off the air.
Speaker 1: Dumb and dummer. Yeah, ye, all the good stuffscribing us so.
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Speaker 2: And uh, we're just kicking around a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 1: There a lot of nonsense that had.
Speaker 2: Non football type stuff here. We don't typically do a
Speaker 2: lot of that on this show. So we'll move on.
Speaker 1: But so.
Speaker 2: A veteran play caller for Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you start thinking some names? Yeah?
Speaker 2: One that jumps out to me and he interviewed the
Speaker 2: last time the Steelers had an opening was Pep Hamilton.
Speaker 2: He's been out of a job, so he's available out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you'll hear left which the enemy.
Speaker 1: I can see one of those blow my skirt up,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, but I think you'll hear
Speaker 1: those names. I've heard people ask me about Frank Reich.
Speaker 1: I should know the name of top my head. But
Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator in Seattle this past year. I don't
Speaker 1: think they've announced if he's coming back. What is Waldron?
Speaker 1: I think it's okay, Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't
Speaker 1: know if he'll be They even you know, cleaned house yet.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's five other names that people were thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know. But I know Smith from Miami has been
Speaker 1: brought up because he's not the play caller. He's the
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator. But if he hasn't called the plays, and
Speaker 1: he doesn't fit the mold either. And we've talked about too.
Speaker 1: I don't love throwing a Miami style offense here.
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to finesse offense here.
Speaker 1: Seattle would interest me, Yeah, yeah, Waldron, Yeah yeah, he's
Speaker 1: got a good reputation. If anyone wants to throw names out,
Speaker 1: I'm not avoiding you, folks. But my least favorite topics
Speaker 1: of my job are discussing injuries and assistant coaches, because
Speaker 1: I've seen what assistant coaches and I know, I don't
Speaker 1: know what they do from sitting in this chair behind
Speaker 1: him microphone, you know, in front of a microphone, as
Speaker 1: opposed to who's really good in the building. It's just
Speaker 1: a hard thing to analyze unless you're there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if I mean Tomlin is a
Speaker 2: relationship with Jim Caldwell.
Speaker 1: I don't know if if you get down that ride.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I mean an adult in the room.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's gonna be a young offense.
Speaker 2: Still, yeah, it's a very young offense. That's why I
Speaker 2: don't necessarily I understand why Mike wants to go with
Speaker 2: somebody who has called plays before. I know people talk
Speaker 2: about Clint Kobiak and yeah, some of these young hot guys,
Speaker 2: but that that you don't know what you're getting.
Speaker 1: The other issue and This is part of the issues
Speaker 1: that other teams are dealing with. If you hire a
Speaker 1: defensive coach, is okay, well, who's your offensive coordinator going
Speaker 1: to be? If you're not the one calling plays, head guy,
Speaker 1: if you're not Andy Reid, are you going to be
Speaker 1: like Houston? Get this whiz kid offensive coordinator for one
Speaker 1: year and then he's coaching and he's gone Anthers, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? So like a Caldwell or somebody
Speaker 1: that's a little older, probably isn't going to get scooped
Speaker 1: up right away. Way you might get three four years
Speaker 1: out of them as long as they want to be
Speaker 1: here as opposed and.
Speaker 2: You can train somebody underneath them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you can you know, right, right right?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the best way to do
Speaker 1: it with a non play calling head coach. And you
Speaker 1: know they they know the league.
Speaker 2: You know what you're getting.
Speaker 1: More importantly, I think, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: What you're buying because you've seen there are tangible results there.
Speaker 2: You're not guessing about what it's going to be.
Speaker 1: No, right, right, right, No, I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of value to that. So I'm open to names. I'm
Speaker 1: sure now that he has press conference there'll be one
Speaker 1: hundred names area. Yeah, we'll be getting tweets left and right,
Speaker 1: and I'm fine with it. But I'll tell you right now,
Speaker 1: it's a hard thing for me to comment on. It
Speaker 1: really is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is for me as well, because you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, we can we can guess who these guys
Speaker 2: are going to be, but that doesn't mean we're going
Speaker 2: to be right.
Speaker 1: No, you we'll investigate their trees. Like, boy, you spend
Speaker 1: a lot of time with Shanahan and this dude and
Speaker 1: this dude, but that doesn't mean that's what they wanted
Speaker 1: to do here, right, That's yeah, that's the thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of different avenues and what he's
Speaker 1: doing in Baltimore is a lot differently did at Georgia.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, to your point, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I don't want I don't want one of these Miami
Speaker 2: guys who are basically the off the Shanahan tree, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know that that will that work in Pittsburgh
Speaker 2: in November.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mind anyone coming from the Shannan tree,
Speaker 1: but I don't like the way Miami has their offense structure, correct, ye,
Speaker 1: you know, right, And I don't know that they'd even
Speaker 1: be interested in Pickens and Deonta and Friarmouth. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to go find the fastest guy in the draft.
Speaker 2: And you know your offense is built a certain way
Speaker 2: right now? You got power running backs, yeah, in a
Speaker 2: power offensive line.
Speaker 1: And I can promise you whoever they hire is not
Speaker 1: going to be hired to not run the ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, you know they're going to come in here
Speaker 2: and run the run and shoot, you're not hiring Mouse Davis.
Speaker 1: No, Like, I don't think that whoever interviews with coach
Speaker 1: is gonna be like, well, I don't really think the
Speaker 1: varning bames all that important. I don't really care about it,
Speaker 1: you know, like, well, okay, the interview, that's true, Thanks
Speaker 1: for talking. Yeah, good chat.
Speaker 2: Enjoy your line you have full I think I'll meet
Speaker 2: you at the door.
Speaker 1: I think we're about putting picket in the shotgun and
Speaker 1: going for wide exclusively, throw it every down. What do
Speaker 1: you think, coach? I don't think that's gonna fly.
Speaker 2: Mike did say that, you know it's not going to
Speaker 2: just be him making none of these hires. People need
Speaker 2: to understand, well, Mike Tomlin makes a hire it's not
Speaker 2: just him, right. People people act like, oh, it's just
Speaker 2: Mike Tomlin high when he hired Brian Flores two years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he didn't just say, hey, Brian, you're hired, right, He
Speaker 2: had to call He calls upstairs and said, Art, I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about bringing Brian Flores in. Does that work?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And you don't think mister Rooney and others are
Speaker 1: going to be involved in the interview process. Of course
Speaker 1: they are. This is a major high right exactly. It's
Speaker 1: not gonna be Tom's just gonna get his buddy hire him.
Speaker 1: It's anne deal. And that's not the way it's going.
Speaker 1: That's not the way it works.
Speaker 2: But you know, if you listen to some other radio
Speaker 2: shows or read some other stuff around here, that that's
Speaker 2: the way people.
Speaker 1: Seem to think it goes. And that's not easy. The
Speaker 1: only one doing the hiring or is any say in anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not how it works.
Speaker 2: Anyways, that's going to do it for our show today,
Speaker 2: Matt and I will be back again tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We'll make our DFS picks.
Speaker 2: And we'll maybe break down some more what Tomlin had
Speaker 2: to say today, and Nate delvi into a little bit
Speaker 2: more of the ancillary stuff that he talked about, figure
Speaker 2: to say about some individual players as well.
Speaker 1: We got playoff games this weekend, and we got really
Speaker 1: good games this.
Speaker 2: Weekend that we can talk about. We'll do all that tomorrow,
Speaker 2: but for today, that's going to do it. So for
Speaker 2: my partner Matt Williamson, for Justin Miller here on site
Speaker 2: keeping us on the air, I'm Dale, Allie. We thank
Speaker 2: you for listening to this edition of the Drive on
Speaker 2: Steelers Nation Radio.