1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I truly love bodies 2 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: of water. For some reason, something clicked in me a 3 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: few years ago. I used to like going to the mountains, 4 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: mountains where I would find peace and maybe a respite. 5 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: But as I've gotten older, water almost has a healing 6 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: effect on me. I think that people can understand that 7 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: that go and spend time at the beach, perhaps and 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: you listen to the waves, you feel the sun on 9 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: your skin. Some people like going to the lake, as 10 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: they say, and just sit and stare at a lake, 11 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: maybe in a lawn chair, and they are pretty. But 12 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: I've developed a real affinity. A lot of it has 13 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: to do with the boat that I have now that's 14 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: an old boat. I've developed a real affinity for rivers. 15 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: The thing about a river is that you know it 16 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: has a beginning and an end, but what's underneath it 17 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: is completely different than what's beneath a lake because it's 18 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: always changing. Something is just beneath the surface that you 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: can't necessarily see. And hey, just because it's beneath the 20 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: surface one day and one specific location does not mean 21 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: it will be in the same place the next day. 22 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: Because rivers change much like a life. I'm not the 23 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: first person to make that conclusion. Rivers have been compared 24 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: to life for years and years our journey, if you will. 25 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: There's something peaceful about them, though. I want to chat 26 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: a bit with you today about a river that actually 27 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: turns into a lake, and then another lake, and then 28 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: becomes a river once again. I want to talk to 29 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: you about one of the most interesting and tragic, unsolved 30 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: double homicides in recent memory in the state of Georgia, 31 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: the Dermotts. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body 32 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: Backs today. You know we're we're going to talk about 33 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: the Cooney River, but it's actually Lake of Coney there 34 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: in eastern central Georgia. And boy, what a tale this is. 35 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: It is a tail. It is one of these stories 36 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: you tell around the campfire to scare kids. Today we 37 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: are talking about the unsolved, free planned, heinous murder of 38 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: eighty eight year old Russell Dermott and his bride, eighty 39 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: seven year old Shirley Durmot. Sheriff Howard Zille says, quote, 40 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: these people committed a heinous crime, depraved act. They need 41 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 2: to be caught. 42 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: And he's right, dude, it's been going on for a 43 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: decade ten years. 44 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And all I'm thinking is as you plan your life, 45 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: you know, and you oftentimes we have that picture when 46 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 2: we're younger of finding that partner that will remain with 47 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 2: us for our life, as we raise children and move 48 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: through our careers and things like that, and then we 49 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: get to that part of life where maybe we're sitting 50 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: on the back porch overlooking a lake like a coney 51 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: and you marvel at where the lake can take you. 52 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: I always I've always liked being around water because it 53 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: gives me the idea that, you know, I could get 54 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: on that water and go around the world from here. 55 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: You know, this is my entry. And in this particular case, 56 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: Russell Dermott and Shirley Dermott were at they they were 57 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: they're past the eighteen holes in the clubhouse. They're eighty 58 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: eight and eighty seven, respectively, and they've got this beautiful 59 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: house on the lake. They have been married for sixty 60 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: eight years. 61 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: Wow, six and eight years. 62 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: Still very active. You know. Russell had gone to a 63 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: publix earlier in the week, but it was in twenty fourteen. 64 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: May first was the day he was at the publics. 65 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: They had plans surely, and Russell Durmot had plans to 66 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: watch the Kentucky Derby with some friends on Saturday the third, 67 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: May third. When they don't show up, you know, the 68 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: friends are concerned, they're curious, they're not overly, you know, 69 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: not freaking out over it, but yea that they call them. 70 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: And you know, when you get to be eighty eight 71 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: eighty seven in that area, you know, when you don't 72 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: show up for something at somebody's house, you know they 73 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: might call and check on you, but they don't really look. 74 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: You've earned the right to not do what you want 75 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: to not do kind of thing anyway, So they gave 76 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: it a couple of days. You know, they were expected 77 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: on the third and when nobody could get them on 78 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: the phone. It took a couple of days. But on 79 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: May sixth a neighbor said, enough's enough. Haven't heard from him. 80 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: I've got to find out what's going on with the Dermans, 81 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: you know, and I think most of us would be 82 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: kind of like that. So he goes over and he 83 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: notices the front door is unlocked. Now that's a big 84 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: one here. You're in a gaety community, but you still 85 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: lock your doors, especially when you're an older couple, but 86 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: they're not. The door's open. He looks around the house, 87 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: can't see anything in terms of people, doesn't see Shirley, 88 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: doesn't see Russell. He goes around looking and finds Russell. 89 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: He finds Russell in the in the in the garage. 90 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 2: He's on the floor and he's not well. Joe, there 91 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: wasn't a whole lot missing from the house, but Russell's 92 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: head was missing, and Sureley is nowhere to be found. 93 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: So this guy's studying did Surely and Russell get into 94 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,119 Speaker 2: a fight and she whacked his head off and took off. 95 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: Because that's what he's finding. Russell Dermand, eighty eight years 96 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: old is dead in the garage, head off. But it's 97 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: not a real bloody scene, Joe, No. 98 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: It's not. And the reason it's not a real bloody 99 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: scene is that the investigators revealed we did find out 100 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: this information that the body in the area approximating the 101 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: body had been surrounded by towels, Dave, and their supposition 102 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: is that the towels are placed down in order to 103 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: soak up any kind of blood that was there and 104 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: also prevent it from coming under and out of the 105 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: garage door. 106 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, they chopped the guy's head off, and 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: they were concerned about keeping it hidden so no blood 108 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: gets under the garage, so nobody from the outside would 109 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: notice it. 110 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: Exactly. 111 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: That's not something we usually find for murderers who cut 112 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: people's heads off. 113 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: Dude, I got to tell you that's why. First off, 114 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: let's go back to this shrend. Can you imagine that 115 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: you know this this you know equally elderly couple, their 116 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: friends that had invited them over. They show up and 117 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: people that they had broken bread with, people they had 118 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: hung out with. You know, they was a it was 119 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: a Kentucky Derby party, and you know what's associated with 120 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: Kentucky Derby, julibs. And you get to thinking about the 121 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: fact that over the years they'd probably had a few 122 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: adult beverages with one another and they were going to 123 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: go celebrate. Because I like to watch Kentucky Derby just 124 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: as much as the next guy, because it's exciting, it's 125 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: a unique event. But you show up because you're concerned 126 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: about your friends, and you walk in and you have 127 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: the headless corpse of this man that you have spent 128 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: time with, you've laughed with. You got a lot in 129 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: common because as you said, they're in the Sunset years, 130 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: They're in the Golden years. 131 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: I got to ask you something because Joe, you mentioned 132 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: to me that you have been covering this story since 133 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: it happened. That we mentioned as an unsolved murder from 134 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. But there's new evidence that we're going to 135 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: get into. But you actually have been on this since 136 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: it started, since the bodies, since Russell's body was recovered 137 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: in that garage. Now do you remember what it was 138 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: like in terms of news coverage at that time? Were 139 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: people talking about, Hey, where's his wife? Did she chop 140 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: his head off and run? 141 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? I do remember it, and here's why I remember it. 142 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: First off, I got to give you the name, and 143 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: you know the name, and I consider him to be 144 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: in media. One of my closest friends is Vinnie Politan, 145 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: who's ONTV. Now, well, when this occurred, HLN was still 146 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: a thing, you know, we're talking about twenty fourteen. Oh yeah, 147 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: and it had happened during that period. Vinnie had gone 148 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: over to a local Atlanta news station by that time, 149 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: and almost immediately when he got there. Because Vinnie is 150 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: so good at true crime, he might be one of 151 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: the best I've ever encountered. First off, he cares about people, 152 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: and he actually started a program on this particular channel 153 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: called Georgia Mysteries, and this is one of the first 154 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: cases he profiled. We did extensive coverage of this, and 155 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: I went over and would travel from Alabama. I was 156 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: already teaching teaching in Alabama, and I would drive back 157 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: and forth to the studio in Atlanta and we'd have 158 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: in depth conversations about this case. And then I think 159 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: I covered it on Nancy, I covered on a couple 160 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: of national news outlets, and I think as a former 161 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: investigator and a forensics guy, David, I just knew. I 162 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: just knew in my heart of hearts that Okay, six months' tops, 163 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: you're going to be able to find this out. You're 164 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: going to be able, And man, I've aged a decade. 165 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to make this about me, but you know, 166 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: when you look back in time, you think I've aged 167 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: a decade since this occurred. And everybody that's been watching 168 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: this thing, you know, kind of play out, and there's 169 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: been all kinds of speculation about this. You know, you 170 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: think about you know something that you and I A 171 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: theme that runs through body Bag with homicides. We always 172 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: talk about intimate circle. Well, if you've got an intimate circle, 173 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: how big is it and who's involved in it? And 174 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: nothing that they really had in the initial offering seemed 175 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: as though that it would point back to anything in 176 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: the intimate circle. But I know this that some body 177 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: or some bodies felt so passionately about this elderly couple 178 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: that they felt like that they needed to be eradicated 179 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: from the face of the planet. Sixty plus years of marriage. 180 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: During that period of time, you have ups and you 181 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: have downs. What would compel a wife, Sureley Dermot to 182 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: essentially disappear, vanish into thin air, and in her wake 183 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: is left the headless corpse of her husband. 184 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: Now, Joe, my question for you on this because I 185 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: know you were there covering this, so you've got two 186 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: different perspectives as the forensic person looking at the facts 187 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 2: of the body, but you're also a human being who 188 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: is familiar with the geography of the area. Was there 189 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: a common theme to discussions about what they had found. 190 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: Was anybody really thinking that Shirley Drmod had done something 191 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: to her husband and she had taken off or was 192 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: it pretty much assumed that she was a victim. We 193 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: just had to find her body because of the case 194 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: of mentioning. You mentioned toals being put around Russell Dermand, 195 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: so there had to be preparation to prevent people from 196 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: finding what was going on there. 197 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I'm not saying that an elderly person 198 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: is incapable of committing some kind of act like this. 199 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: I've seen it happen. I don't know if it's been 200 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: this over the top, but the fact that this act 201 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: would be committed, and I'm referring to Russell and then 202 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: that person essentially vaporizes, They're gone, their vehicles are there. 203 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: You got a gated community. How does this happen? And 204 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: I think the curious thing about this is that, just 205 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: based upon Russell's remains, there is not a tremendous amount 206 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: of physical evidence, right, And that's kind of I know 207 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: that sounds odd because you're talking about a decapitated body, 208 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: but there was not a lot. And I have to 209 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: offer this up too, just to let you know, because 210 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: a lot of this falls back over into the share. 211 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: He's played this pretty close to the vest for ten years, right, 212 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: It's not like he's let it loose, okay, and just 213 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: but he has made significant efforts. He's reached out to 214 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: people in Europe, He's reached out to the news media 215 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: in New York and Los Angeles. He's even reached out 216 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: to inside addition, you know, to try to get assistance 217 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: with this case. He's had eyes on it. He's been 218 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: asking for help. There is an FBI reward for this case, 219 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: and still nothing. And I think that a lot of 220 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: people that have these ideas. I think many people did 221 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: early on that Wow, this looked like something that an 222 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: organized crime group would have done to them, because it's 223 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: one thing to have a headless corpse. Most of the 224 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: time you're going to find the head, but you don't 225 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: find the head, and also you don't have the wife. 226 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: And there were numerous press conferences that were held in 227 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: a ten day period starting on the sixth and moving 228 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: forward with this case, and that life changed on May sixteenth, 229 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: and it wasn't as a result of anything that the 230 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: authorities were doing. It happened to be a couple of 231 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: fishermen that were fishing out there and May. Just so 232 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: folks understand, in southern waters during May, you're at the 233 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: tail end of one of the big southern fishing seasons 234 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: and that's crappie fishing, and so you've got guys that 235 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: will go out and they will fish, and they'll essentially 236 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: just put jigs out in the water and jig because 237 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: they're trying to catch crappie. And that day almost five 238 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: miles away from the Dermot home, which by the way, 239 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: had its own boat dock. It sits right on the water. 240 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: This house is beautiful. I urge anybody that's never seen 241 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: an image of the house to go and check it 242 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: out and see how. 243 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: The Google Earth stuff you can see and the pictures 244 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: that are available. It's a beautiful place it is. 245 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: And it sits in a cove dave, so the cove 246 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: itself is off of the main channel. You've got to 247 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: go back out and get into the main channel and 248 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: go down and it's almost shaped like a fish hook 249 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: where Shirley Durman's body is eventually found by two fishermen. 250 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: And it's not like it's just floating there. 251 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Because Russell is dead, no head in the garage. 252 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: There's been towels placed around him so the blood won't 253 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: go into the garage door, so nobody will see from 254 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 2: the outside. Sureley is gone. And for ten days, they're 255 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: trying to figure out what happened. Her body is found 256 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: in the water by fishermen, but it wasn't floating. Why 257 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: was the body not floating, Joe, And by the way, 258 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: five miles away from their house. So she wasn't just 259 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: thrown off into the water. No, from the dock. 260 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: No. No, it's when you think about, Okay, here's the 261 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: thing you have to consider, and I know that the 262 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: investigators did. And this is how the river plays into this. 263 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: As I mentioned early on, on damned rivers and all 264 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: these rivers there are controlled by thee it's called George 265 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: Power George Power Company because they're generating electricity. And so 266 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: you have WHATD refer to as if you've never lived 267 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: on a river like this. They have dam releases and 268 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: from time to time they'll raise and lower the level. 269 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: And buddy, let me tell you, if you've never been 270 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: on one side of a dam. When it's released, you 271 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: have this incredible just force that just kind of you know, 272 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: shoots out from this thing and it flows and it 273 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: creates its own its own there's already a natural current, 274 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: but it just intensifies that, but intensifies it to the 275 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: point where you're going to take the body of a 276 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: full grown woman that is weighted down with cinder blocks, 277 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: mind you, and drag it across that the bottom of 278 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: the channel. And oh, by the way, the body makes 279 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: a sharp right hand turn and goes back up in 280 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: a cove. It ain't happening. It's just that that defies 281 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: every every law of hydrology, if you will, it's there's 282 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: not enough current in the world. I guess there could be. 283 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: Somebody could catch me on that, But to make it 284 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: happen like that and the it would have to be perfect, 285 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: so perfect circumstances. So my contention is is that whoever 286 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: did this. First off, they didn't. They didn't put Shirley 287 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: into a car and drive her down to the cove 288 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: and toss her off the bank. Uh, that didn't happen, 289 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: because how do you account for not having a record 290 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: of a vehicle coming and going out of that security area? 291 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: How did they get access to it? My contention from 292 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: Jump Street has always been that the boat that transported 293 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: her body also transported the killer or killers to the dock. 294 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: They got off of the boat, perpetrated the crime, and 295 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: they killed him, spirited it off with his head. And 296 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: let's just continue on this fantastical journey. Here they're beating 297 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: her because they have money. They have money. I mean 298 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: Russell Durman. I don't know exactly what his net worth was, 299 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: but he had sold like a tremendous number of fast 300 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: food restaurants, if I'm not mistaken. They had cash, dude. 301 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: And how else you know, if you're trying to get 302 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: access to money perhaps or accounts, or you want something 303 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: from them, what will you do. You tie a little 304 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: old lady up in your boat and you bring her 305 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: husband's head with you, and you say, you either give 306 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: me what I want or this is going to happen 307 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: to you. And the thing about it is, I don't 308 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: know that anyone ever got anything, but I do know this. 309 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: They transported her person down that river. I don't know 310 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: what state the body was in when they finally arrived 311 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: in that cove, but they dumped her off the side, 312 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: and no one to this day even knows where. 313 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: Russell's rust's head is. Yeah, it's gone. Let me ask 314 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 2: you the joe. So you're saying that you believe the 315 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 2: perpetrators brought a boat landed at their dock, went into 316 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: the house with a plan to extricate money or jewels 317 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 2: or whatever. They kill Russell Dermond and cut his head off, 318 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 2: leave his body in the garage with towels around it 319 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 2: so the blood won't sleep out into the driveway under 320 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: the garage door. They then beat Shirley Dermond to the 321 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: point where they take her out onto the lake and 322 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 2: they use cinder blocks to weigh her body down. See 323 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 2: I didn't catch the part. I all along thought they're 324 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 2: going to take her body and just they're going to 325 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 2: kill her and throw her into the water and she's 326 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 2: going to drift. But they actually did not plan on 327 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 2: her coming to the surface by any means. They put 328 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: cinder blocks on her body after beating her to death. 329 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 2: I don't know. Is there a way you could find 330 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: out if she was dead when she went in the water. 331 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: It's very difficult under these circumstances, given well ten days downrange, 332 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: yeah you could, And a lot of it has to 333 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: do with what the findings were relative to her lungs. 334 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:20,719 Speaker 1: We're hoping that they did die. Tom testing and in 335 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: the lungs where you're looking, well, you're looking for the 336 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: little sea creatures. Uh, they're these these little skeletal entities 337 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: that kind of float around the water and they're unique 338 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: species wise, they're unique and you can actually find them 339 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: in the airway if if someone takes in a mouthful 340 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: of water and it comes into their lungs, well, that 341 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: that aquatic environment that they are in, dwelling it, it 342 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: has these little uh, these little structures in there, and 343 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: so in order to have them within you, if you're 344 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,959 Speaker 1: in the midst of drowning, uh, you would have to 345 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: uptake those things into your lungs. And you know your lung, 346 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: your lung you're starving for oxygen anyway in a drowning event, 347 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: if it was a drowning and you're trying to take 348 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: in as much and so the lungs would would have 349 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: this in there. And that's one of the you know, 350 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: we've I think that we've mentioned this before, but there 351 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: are these cases where and it always baffles the mind, 352 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: where you have these cases of suspected drowning where you 353 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 1: don't know if it was a drowning or if they 354 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: were just placed in the water or dieton testing should 355 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: have been done from Jump Street in every single one 356 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: of these cases where homicides evolved. How much more so 357 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: when you've got a lady whose husband has been decapitated. 358 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: She's bound and tied to cinder blocks and dumped into water. 359 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: What they didn't count on was the fact that when 360 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: bodies begin to swell beneath the waves, they expand like 361 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: a gigantic balloon. If you've never seen it, it's something 362 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: you'll never forget. And they might not rise all the 363 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: way to the top, but there is so much air 364 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: that the body generates because as the body is beginning 365 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: to break down, you've got it at one level, which 366 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: is referred to as autolysis, where the body is consuming 367 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: itself well, it creates gas and the body expands. That's 368 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: why people talk about the bloated dead. And it happens 369 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: in dry environments too. You'll find them, you know, that 370 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: are swollen. Heat speeds it up. But even beneath the 371 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: surface of the water, you'll have bodies that are swelling 372 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: like this, and it gives this buoyancy to the body 373 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: that it would not otherwise have, and they begin to 374 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: float up, and it's so much so that they'll even 375 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: drag cinder blocks up with it. You know, something that's 376 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: been tied down. The only way you're going to kind 377 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: of defeat that is, if the body has been punctured 378 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: prior to where air can escape and that sort of thing. 379 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: So they have not released a tremendous amount of information 380 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: about her status. We do know that she sustained what 381 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: seems to be blunt force trauma. You know about her body. 382 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, other than the center blocks, which 383 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: forensically you would hope that there would be some way 384 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: to tie those back to something. Did they take those 385 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: center blocks? As an investigator, you're thinking, did they find 386 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: center blocks? I don't know about you, Dave. Do you 387 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: have cinder blocks layer in your house? I got in 388 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: the back Maybe you've got one or two. 389 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 2: I have some in the backyard. 390 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: Yet, Okay, I do too. So did the Germans have 391 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: center blocks? That'd be a question. I would ask what 392 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 1: style of center block is it? Because who was it 393 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: manufactured by? If you can kind of suss that out, 394 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: And then I think, probably more importantly is what kind 395 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: of bindings are you talking about? What kind of rope? 396 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: Because rope has to be cut, Dave, and when you 397 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: cut rope you leave a tool mark behind on those 398 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: freight ends, was there any kind of what's the point 399 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: of origin of the rope, Who was it manufactured by, 400 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: who was sold by? And was it rope that was 401 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: possessed by the Dermans or did this rope? Was this 402 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: rope brought with them? And what does that go to? Well, 403 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: that goes premeditation, because if you're showing, if you're if 404 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: you can demonstrate that this is in fact a rope 405 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: that did not belong to the Dermans, your next logical 406 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: step is going to be well, perpetrators may have showed 407 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: up with it, they were purposed to do something horrible. 408 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: They showed up in a stealthy manner on water because 409 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: who expects a killer to arrive by boat? 410 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: Only the people that make the movie the TV. 411 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: Let me tell you something, if if you and I 412 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: had the story and we walked into a producer's office 413 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, they'd say it out, this is ridiculous, We're 414 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: not doing this. And a lot of cases we cover 415 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: are like that. You just you can't believe that it's occurred. 416 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: What are you going to do at that point in time? 417 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: How do you determine the origin of these things? But 418 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: I can tell you this, I don't think that the 419 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: mystery of the disappearance of Shirley Dermot and her death 420 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: and the death and decapitation of her husband Russell necessarily 421 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: rest in Shirley's remains, but there might be some indication, 422 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: some you hope, in this case that might lead to 423 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: answers on the decapitative remains of Russell. Well, for folks 424 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: that are new to the German homicides, I think the 425 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: most obvious question is, well, who's heading up this investigation? 426 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: Who's in charge of this thing? Because you know, as 427 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: I'd mentioned, it's we're ten years down range, Dave, We're 428 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: ten years down range. And look, I know that I 429 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: went on about affluence and that sort of thing. At 430 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: this location. You have to understand that not all of 431 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: Putnam County, which is where this occurred, is affluent. You know, 432 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: it's an agri based environment. You know, you have people, 433 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: you have farms there, chicken houses and all that sort 434 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: of stuff. It's only a smaller portion of popular population 435 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: that lives along the shores of kind you know who 436 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: could afford it. But there is one person in that county, 437 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: in Putnam County, that is in fact the I don't know, 438 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: I guess the head constable, as they might say, the 439 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: high Sheriff and He's certainly an interesting character, isn't it day. 440 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 2: Well, it's funny when you start looking into a story 441 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 2: like this, and funny strange because you start looking at 442 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 2: the victims and in this particular case, knowing two things 443 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 2: about it. One, it's an unsolved crime involving some very 444 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: senior citizens that there's no reason for them to have 445 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: died in a horrible way like this. And the second 446 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 2: part is I knew that you had been intimately involved 447 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 2: in the coverage of this since it happened in twenty fourteen. 448 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: The sheriff here has been asked on a number of 449 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 2: occasions about the Georgia Bureau of investmentstigation and why he 450 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: hasn't reached out to them, And the sheriff has said, 451 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: his name's Howard Sheriff, Howard Sill, and he has said 452 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: that he's reached out to everybody one time or another, 453 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: but he doesn't have a lot of confidence. And I'm 454 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: being nice when I say this in the abilities of 455 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: the GBI, and he has a number of reasons for 456 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 2: feeling that way, but I do know this. He talked 457 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: about some evidence that caught my attention, and I made 458 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: some notes to ask you about it. Because Sheriff Smith 459 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: said it was incredibly brutal, and when we think about 460 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: somebody's head being lopped off, that's about as brutal as 461 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: it gets. But they've got the whoever did this, and 462 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 2: I'm going to assume it was more than one person. 463 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: That's my assumption as well. Yeah, all right, Well. 464 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,479 Speaker 2: You've got a man eighty eight years old who has 465 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 2: had his head chopped off, and we have his wife 466 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 2: found ten days later with cinderblocks tied to her body 467 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 2: in the in the lake, and I'm thinking, why did 468 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 2: the perpetrators go to all that trouble with her body 469 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: when they've already got the husband dead. They left him 470 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 2: in the garage, they took his head with him because 471 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 2: he can't find the head still ten years later, having 472 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: found Russell Durman's head, But why was there a need 473 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 2: to go to all that trouble with his wife? 474 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: Again? I have to think Dave. For me looking at 475 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: the case, I have to think that it's a point 476 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: of leverage to try to get it. Because even Sheriff 477 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: Sills had stated that he doesn't I don't want to 478 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: mistate here, but he essentially paraphrasing he doesn't have evidence 479 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: that she was killed there, and so that again goes 480 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: to my she was killed in the house. Yeah, that 481 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: she was killed at that location there, And that goes 482 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: to the spilling of blood, right, because I mean, if 483 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: you're going to brutalize someone, you would leave perhaps a 484 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: significant amount of their blood that would be in addition 485 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: to what you were finding with Russell's and you know, 486 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: to be able to hype that blood, do DNA on 487 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: it and all this sort of stuff. So is he 488 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: saying that she was killed on this vessel in the 489 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: middle of the lake or was she killed out near 490 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: the water and her body was tied down and she 491 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: was essentially placed into the platform, which I think is 492 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: a boat. I don't know, it could be any number 493 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: of boats. Of their speculation relative to Shirley's death is 494 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: almost equally as brutal as Russell's cause of death. She 495 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: was beaten about the head multiple times. She died of 496 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma. And here's here's the other little bit 497 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: to this that's quite striking is that they believe that 498 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: she was beaten to death with a hammer Dave. 499 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 2: And ballpeen hammer or hammer with the claws. 500 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, exactly like you know, 501 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: and they haven't. 502 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 2: Sap eighty seven year old woman being to death with 503 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: a hammer. That just sounds personal. 504 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: Yeah it does. But here's the thing again, I'm thinking, 505 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: what could you want from her? What could you want 506 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: from her? Well, there been number of people that have 507 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: been beaten up with hammers over the years to extract 508 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: information for them or to get something from them. It's 509 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: not specifically a one and done event. You're going to 510 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: have to hit them multiple times? Or are you trying 511 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: to draw data out of them? Money, jewels? As you 512 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: had stated, Is there something else that's there that she 513 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: had knowledge of or had possession of, or that her 514 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: husband had had possession of, because the evidence didn't necessarily 515 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: rest with him, now did it, because they killed him 516 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: and cut his head off. So you know, you think, well, 517 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: how exactly do you go about determining what it was 518 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: they wanted to do with her? Well, if you get 519 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: her out there on the water and just imagine, and 520 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,479 Speaker 1: I've thought about this so much, I'm thinking, well, they 521 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: don't have his head? Do they have his head with 522 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: them as they're going down the river and they're taunting 523 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: her with it? But you know, in the head has 524 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: never found. The head is not like the torso that's 525 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: gonna swell. It could very well have gone just straight 526 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: down to the bottom because there's kind of a deep 527 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: channel in that river. Not deep deep, I mean, it's 528 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: not like ocean going vessels go through there, but you 529 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: have a central channel in there or or yeah, and 530 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: my gosh, that is the most horrific part to this. 531 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: But we're, as said, keeping it as as a trophy. 532 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: Is that what's going on? Because yeah, that's that's our assumption. 533 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: That would be my assumption at least. 534 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 2: What if because you mentioned the blood or the lack thereof, 535 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: you did mention towels being put around his body in 536 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: the grudge, But was there sufficient enough blood found in 537 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: that grudge to think he was killed there or was 538 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: he killed elsewhere? 539 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: Unknown at this point in time, I think that probably 540 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: the blood had been soaked up to the point where 541 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: the towels and we don't know exactly what the volume 542 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: of blood was, you know, that was contained in that 543 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, the towel covered area around there. I think 544 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: that that is a fantastic question. You know, My thought was, well, 545 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: did they take him, you know, did they take him 546 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: or them out in the yard to facilitate you know, 547 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: this travesty. But if you if you do that, you 548 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: run the risk of drawing attention to the neighbors. Because 549 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: of the neighbors and there are houses on it. There's 550 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: a great view of this house from the water where 551 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: you can see the cove and you can kind of 552 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: see homes, and they're all big. I think, you know, 553 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: the Germis's home alone is well in excess of four 554 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: thousand square feet, all right, and it's got multiple layers 555 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: to it or multiple you know, levels to it. And 556 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: if the other houses are equally that size, and this 557 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: is done in the wee hours, you're not going to 558 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: hear if other people are asleep, you're not going to 559 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: necessarily hear anything as shocking as that. It's not like 560 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: you're living in an apartment in New York where the 561 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: walls are very very thin. You got somebody on those 562 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: and you hear somebody screaming out, or you hear the 563 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: thud of a hammer, or you're not in that kind 564 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: of proximity. So even though you're in a residential neighborhood, 565 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: a very wealthy one, there's not like you're living on 566 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: top of one another. So it could have been muffled. 567 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: And you've also got this idea that you've got trees 568 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: all around this place. It's a beautiful location, and it's 569 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: up in the cove and where you could have heard something. 570 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: And this is quite fascinating. I urge anybody to do this. 571 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: It's ever near a river or a lake, not the ocean, 572 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: but when you're there, it's amazing. You can hear the 573 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,479 Speaker 1: slightest conversations across water on the other side, you know, 574 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: from you can be in a boat in the middle 575 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: and you can hear people talking sometimes because the sound 576 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: will travel that way. So you would think, well, they 577 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: would have to do this undercovered arkments. Perhaps they don't 578 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: want to be seen. And here's something else. Because of 579 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: the nature of this location, you would have to be 580 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: familiar where you could get your boat in. You'd have 581 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: to understand these waters in order to be able to 582 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: navigate them at night, and you'd have to know where 583 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: the dormans lived because houses from the river, houses from 584 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: the lake, from the lake or water view don't look 585 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: the same as they do on a street view. You 586 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: can go buy a street view and you can see 587 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: a house. In matter of fact, some of these places, 588 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: you couldn't even tell that they're on the water, But 589 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: you get on the water, these things are gigantic and 590 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: a lot of them look the same. How do you 591 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: specifically know that that's where the dormans were? So whoever 592 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: perpetrated this had specific knowledge of this location. They knew 593 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,919 Speaker 1: when to strike, when to come in there. 594 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 2: But I think that's a lot of information for us. 595 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: It still has them in saught. No, let me ask you, 596 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: do they know how his head was cut off? Do 597 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 2: they know what was used to cut his head off? 598 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: No? Not even that hasn't That hasn't been revealed to 599 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: this point. 600 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: And I'm thinking was it an axe? Was it a saw? 601 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 2: Was it any number of things that I'm thinking could 602 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 2: have been used. I'm thinking, did they wrap a cord 603 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 2: around his neck and torture him while the church somebody 604 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 2: give us the info popping her in the head with 605 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 2: a hammer while the strangling him and his you know, holy. 606 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you're thinking about how how in the 607 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: world could this have been perpetrated? They his cause of death, 608 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 1: though it's been speculated that you know, he's still got 609 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 1: a collar shirt on, Dave, And one of the things 610 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: that varies from surely. You know, keep in mind, Shirley 611 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: was beaten to death Dave with this alleged hammer. That's 612 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: not how that's not how Russell died. Russell died they think, 613 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: they think as a result of a gunshot went to 614 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: the head. And you say, well, Morgan, have you lost 615 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: your mind? You just said that the head doesn't exist. 616 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: You're right, it doesn't. But you know on Russell's body, 617 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: you know, he's wearing a collar shirt. Guess what they 618 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,439 Speaker 1: found on the collar gunshot residue. And so you got 619 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: somebody that shows up with cinder blocks, with rope, a boat, 620 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 1: a hammer, oh and by the way, a firearm. And 621 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: so these people, whoever they are, have come prepared to 622 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: do great harm. And that's one of the things I'm 623 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: thinking about here. So you take the husband out quickly, 624 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: you take his head off, and you leave his wife 625 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: bound or she's bound, and you beat her with a hammer. 626 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: Are you trying to terrify her again? I'm thinking about 627 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: leverage here for whatever reason, or maybe just sheer terror. 628 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: Maybe it is somebody that just down to their core 629 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: hated them, and this is a lot of hatred being 630 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: acted out. What would be your purpose of this, and 631 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: you know, I do know that that the share did 632 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,919 Speaker 1: consult the FBI. My biggest question is, particularly for idle 633 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: listeners and myself as well, I'd be very curious do 634 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: they bring in behavioral sciences unit and do a profile 635 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,959 Speaker 1: on whoever would have done this? There is so much 636 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: data here to be able to understand about the nature 637 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: of this case. But my understanding day is that we 638 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: actually might have something new that has kind of fallen 639 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: into our lap. And that's the reason I wanted to 640 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: talk about this today. After a decade, after ten years 641 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: have gone by. 642 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 2: How did they find new evidence after ten years? Joseph 643 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, Yeah, this is this is the fascinating bit 644 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 2: with this case. You know, with the DNA DNA it 645 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: is DNA. How do you find it ten years after 646 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 2: the fact. 647 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: That Well, let me tell you what's cool about this. 648 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: This tells me that they're still working the case. They're 649 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: still working in the case. You know how I mentioned 650 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: that Shirley's body would reveal little or nothing. You can 651 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: see you know, you can see hammer attack marks because 652 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: that's going to be on the bone. You'll see it 653 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: on the skin. If you've never seen anybody hit with 654 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: a hammer, it literally does leave like a little ring. 655 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: If you're hit with the head of the hammer and 656 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,479 Speaker 1: it's about side of the quarter and you'll get little 657 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: lacerations around the bone will actually plug. You'll see a 658 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: plug shape that will be the size of a quarter 659 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: manytimes they're struck on skull. But beyond that, if you're 660 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: talking about things microscopically or things that cannot be seen 661 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: with the unaided eye, that data is probably going to 662 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: be gone off of her body, that bit of information. 663 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: Not with Russell, though, because as brutal as his death was, 664 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: they apparently have discovered after this period of time, and 665 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: I can tell you they have taken Russell's clothing, and 666 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: we know that they found gunshot residue, or what they 667 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: believe is gunshot residue, on the collar of his shirt. 668 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: But they continued with his testing. Dave, they would have 669 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: been sampling all over the shirt. And here's the thing. 670 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: They were able to actually manifest DNA on this thing. 671 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: And it's not Shirley's DNA, it's not Russell's DNA, it's 672 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,959 Speaker 1: somebody else's DNA. And now this DNA has been sent 673 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: off to we know at least two labs, one in Texas, 674 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: which I don't know which lab it is in Texas. 675 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: I have my suspicions, but I have no inside knowledge 676 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: to that. And if it's who I think it is, 677 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: these people are pit bulls. The once they sink their 678 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: teeth into a case like this, they're going to exhaust everything. 679 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: And it is interesting, after all these years, that bit 680 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: of evidence that might finally lead to whoever did this 681 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: is going to be contained in a tiny little molecule 682 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: that we could never ever see with the unaided eye. 683 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: It's just there, and it's been there, and it's been 684 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 1: crying out and it's been all these years, and now 685 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: they might actually have answers. I don't know, but I 686 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: know this. If the perpetrators out there and they've gotten 687 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: wind of this, they might need to pack their bags 688 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: because they might find a way to catch this individual 689 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: finally after a decade. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this 690 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: is body bags.