Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.
Speaker 3: Welcome to it could happen here a podcast. We're in
Speaker 3: the wake of mom Dommy's victory. We are revising the
Speaker 3: old twenty sixteen slogan, eat your pheasants, drink your wine.
Speaker 3: Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine. I am your host,
Speaker 3: Mio Wong, with Rius Garrison Davis looking unhappy.
Speaker 4: Well, this is actually the new mandatory greeting in New
Speaker 4: York has to read yes yesterday, yeah, instead of saying
Speaker 4: hi on the subway or just trying to avoid each other.
Speaker 4: We have to all recite this now. It's pretty crazy.
Speaker 3: FDR used to call the US the forty eight States
Speaker 3: the Soviet of Seattle, and I have I haven't quite
Speaker 3: figured out what the version.
Speaker 4: Of that for New York is yet but no, no,
Speaker 4: the New York City nationalism really is a thing. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 4: even if the country falls, I think I think New
Speaker 4: York will remain as a remain as a city state beacon.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: See.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I'm having to temper my sort of Chicago in
Speaker 3: like this is a two two Chinese city like for this,
Speaker 3: and I'm also having to temper my like reflexive, uh
Speaker 3: not even reflexive. Bye bye bye, incredibly well thought out
Speaker 3: in detailed thoughts of electoralism and so so so today today,
Speaker 3: if I have to cover electoralism positively, we're doing this
Speaker 3: in sports format. Oh we are, we are. We are
Speaker 3: looking at what's been going on with the reaction to
Speaker 3: mom Donnie's when we are fully we are fully doing
Speaker 3: winners and losers. It's gonna be great. We're gonna have
Speaker 3: a good time.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm still traumatized from the World Series, so
Speaker 4: I don't really appreciate the sports framing. I actually the
Speaker 4: World's World Series Game seven. I was watching it at
Speaker 4: a bar and then I had to go across town
Speaker 4: to a different bar because I knew Zoron was doing
Speaker 4: the little gay bar hop on the same night as
Speaker 4: the World Series finale, so I missed the last thirty minutes.
Speaker 4: I had to leave during the ninth inning when the
Speaker 4: Blue Jays were still ahead.
Speaker 3: Oh no. And then and then in transport the Dodgers tie.
Speaker 3: They did two extra innings and then one, and it
Speaker 3: was devastating. And then I saw Bom Donnie dancing at
Speaker 3: a gay club like ten minutes later. It was serious, gracious,
Speaker 3: You're welcome, welcome to being a Seattle Mariners fan. This
Speaker 3: is this is why, yes, all the time for us,
Speaker 3: everything well.
Speaker 4: Aware, No, of course I I what I'm not cheering
Speaker 4: for the Jay is usually usually I'm cheering for the Mariners.
Speaker 3: So I know again, the only way to survive this
Speaker 3: is to become a truly transcendent, true Mariners fan, where
Speaker 3: you are not in this for winning and losing. You
Speaker 3: were in this for the fact that we had a
Speaker 3: guy whose name was Big Dumper because his ass was
Speaker 3: big as fuck and he had sixty home runs. And
Speaker 3: that's what you're in this game for. Okay, Okay, we're
Speaker 3: gonna turn this around. We're gonna turn this around. We're
Speaker 3: gonna actually start with winners with I think the most
Speaker 3: serious thing that we're going to do today not a
Speaker 3: high bar. Yeah, not a high bar. But I think
Speaker 3: in the words of the great John Boyce, this moment
Speaker 3: belongs to her. And that's Lindsay Bolan, who was the
Speaker 3: first woman to accuse Cuomo of sexual harassment, who is
Speaker 3: one of the bravest women I've ever seen. And she's
Speaker 3: having a great time. That's good. There's a bunch of
Speaker 3: pictures of her going around that she's posting. She's so
Speaker 3: happy it rocks. She's yeah, she's just she's just having
Speaker 3: a great time.
Speaker 4: This is this is like a dual pronged moment, right.
Speaker 4: One prong is just seeing Andrew Cuomo get completely humiliated
Speaker 4: for the second time in a row. Yes, and then
Speaker 4: the whole, the whole you know, like perspective hope of
Speaker 4: what a Mom Donnie mayoral occupation could could meet. It's
Speaker 4: like a whole separate thing, uh than just watching Cuomo
Speaker 4: get absolutely decimated. Right if there was if there was
Speaker 4: someone who was only half as good as Mom Donnie
Speaker 4: who destroyed Cuomo, and we still it would still be
Speaker 4: fun to laugh at Cuomo. The fact that it's Mam
Speaker 4: Donnie is just a little bit of like an extra
Speaker 4: extra icing on top.
Speaker 3: I guess yeah. And I want to read a quote
Speaker 3: from her that she could this this this was from
Speaker 3: before especially, I could tell since the actual win, she's
Speaker 3: just been like partying and hasn't really been giving, like
Speaker 3: I think she went onto bocracy now. But like she
Speaker 3: she had this great line from this, this piece and
Speaker 3: the Independent, uh that was titled we will beat these
Speaker 3: monsters and this this was from this. This is from
Speaker 3: the original primary win. I hope every woman who has
Speaker 3: ever faced an abuser like Quota one knows she doesn't
Speaker 3: have to be ashamed, she doesn't have to hide, because
Speaker 3: we will beat these monsters. New Yorker said no more
Speaker 3: to Andrew Cuomo, and that is just remarkable. And this
Speaker 3: ship rocks, this rocks.
Speaker 4: Fuck him, especially Cuomo, who ran his campaign. I'll be like,
Speaker 4: it's dangerous to be a woman on the subway, and
Speaker 4: we're like why because you're gonna be on it like
Speaker 4: like his whole, his.
Speaker 3: Whole, like law and order.
Speaker 4: New York is a dangerous, scary place to live because
Speaker 4: there's predators out there. It was like a main part
Speaker 4: of his campaign. Meanwhile, four years ago he resigned because
Speaker 4: he was a predator.
Speaker 3: Yeah, eleven eleven women came forward like that's remarkable, astounding,
Speaker 3: and you know this is hopefully this is this is
Speaker 3: the beginning of many, many, many defeats that these fucking
Speaker 3: people will have over the coming years.
Speaker 4: Hopefully the last defeat for Cuombo, but for others of
Speaker 4: his ill walk Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, these there are there are many, many people
Speaker 3: who hold a whole variety of offices and sometimes are
Speaker 3: just like your boss or someone you work with or
Speaker 3: someone Yeah, and fuck them, We're gonna beat them all.
Speaker 3: This rocks. So that that's that's winner number one, Winter
Speaker 3: number two. People with child's people with childs. Wow, people
Speaker 3: with child Look, I agree, I got so little sleep
Speaker 3: last night. I was I have no excuse. I was
Speaker 3: up being extremely gay at like four in the morning.
Speaker 3: I'm really tired.
Speaker 5: H Yeah.
Speaker 3: People people with children getting getting free childcare a thing
Speaker 3: that is in fact really good.
Speaker 4: Free childcare would be would be pretty cool. And it's
Speaker 4: one of the few things on the Momdani platform that,
Speaker 4: like the governor herself, is pretty pretty set on how
Speaker 4: helping to achieve.
Speaker 3: And you know there's Spike Lee who's having a great
Speaker 3: time partying, is just just just just loving it. It's great,
Speaker 3: it's great, that's good. Yeah. Renters also good. Yeah, people
Speaker 3: people who live in rent stabilized apartments getting not the
Speaker 3: rent increased, and also they're being more rent controlled housing
Speaker 3: built good good things, good things. People who buy food.
Speaker 3: When I say people who buy food, right, you would
Speaker 3: think that's all people. Most of the people who we
Speaker 3: are going to be talking about on this list, those
Speaker 3: motherfuckers have not set foot in a grocery store in
Speaker 3: a decade. There really, truly is a classified between people
Speaker 3: who buy food and people who do not ever buy
Speaker 3: their own food.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's like around if you make around two hundred thousand
Speaker 4: dollars a year based on the time that you spend
Speaker 4: procuring your own groceries, people argue that it's more efficient
Speaker 4: for you to order or have people bring food to
Speaker 4: you and not do any of that work yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, so we have that, we have.
Speaker 3: You know, I think that there's there's a sort of
Speaker 3: macro point you can make here about you know, the
Speaker 3: ties between affordability and the sort of the sort of
Speaker 3: politics affordability in the ways in which there are a
Speaker 3: bunch of people who would affects and then there is
Speaker 3: the top five percent of the us, who do fifty
Speaker 3: percent of the country's consumer spending. Who this is not
Speaker 3: going to affect because they do fifty percent of their
Speaker 3: consumer spending on bullshit. And also I want to, I
Speaker 3: want to I'm gonna, I'm gonna declare myself a winner
Speaker 3: because I fucking hate Mody and Zorn called Mody a
Speaker 3: war criminal and specifically talked about his mass killings of
Speaker 3: Muslims and Gujarat, which is the first time I've ever
Speaker 3: seen a major American politician talk about that and fuck him,
Speaker 3: he's the butcher of Gujarat. Eat shit. Yeah, this is
Speaker 3: this is this is This is a kind of short
Speaker 3: winners section because you know, I could list like people
Speaker 3: in New York City, like who aren't really rich, like
Speaker 3: Harrison right, like you know, but this is mostly a
Speaker 3: loser's episode. This is mostly a Oh my fucking god,
Speaker 3: the right is doing a crash out and oh boy,
Speaker 3: there are some great stuff. So I want to start
Speaker 3: the losers with Laura Ingram. Who the chevron on her show? Who? Who? Who?
Speaker 3: Laura Ingram?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 4: Fox News host evil She's still on Fox News.
Speaker 3: Huh yeah yeah, her her Fox News thing that the
Speaker 3: chevron on It was by winning the Democrats are actually losing.
Speaker 4: Which is the trust God God, I hope. So from
Speaker 4: your mouth to God's ears, Laura, so.
Speaker 3: Good, it's the most There's a whole genre of this.
Speaker 3: If I wanted to, I literally could have just pulled
Speaker 3: things that were like the Democrats are winning by actually
Speaker 3: losing like that. There's like Ross Douthitt, who's like the
Speaker 3: sort of make work higher, like she's one of the
Speaker 3: old school makework higher in your Times calumnists. He's like
Speaker 3: a very very weird Catholic who used to advocate Catholics
Speaker 3: like taking the benedict option and going into the woods
Speaker 3: and not interacting with society, which please rawsout it and
Speaker 3: your ILK.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's not very Catholic.
Speaker 3: Please do that. Yeah, if you want to go argue
Speaker 3: theology with Ross down, go fucking happily, or like go
Speaker 3: do this. Yeah, but like you know, douth of the
Speaker 3: New York Times immediately is like Momgani's victory is lessgnificant
Speaker 3: than you think, and it's like, ah, yes, we are
Speaker 3: we are getting out. We are not owned, we are
Speaker 3: not owned, et cetera, et cetera. Sololely turning into a corn.
Speaker 4: Cob humping the copium straight into my veins.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. It's truly amazing stuff. I think it in
Speaker 3: the just pure cope vein is Did you did you
Speaker 3: see the Mike Cernovich post about this? No? No, Oh
Speaker 3: my god. Okay, So I'm not gonna how do I
Speaker 3: say this, I'm not gonna association us quote sweeting a
Speaker 3: video that's just like it's like a five minute video
Speaker 3: of like the Zetio whatever live stream of of the
Speaker 3: after party, and it's just Cernavich is just going, this
Speaker 3: is a rowdy, masculine environment. You can feel the energy
Speaker 3: as the Heritage Foundation is putting members through a struggle
Speaker 3: session and demanding a deidan. The left is winning true true,
Speaker 3: And then like that is that is happening right now.
Speaker 4: We'll be doing a piece on the Heritage struggle sessions
Speaker 4: probably later this week.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And that's the that's the do we accept
Speaker 3: the overt neo Nazi or not?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 3: Conflict, which they are very divided on, which is not
Speaker 3: not a great sign. Gotta say, I gotta say, don't
Speaker 3: don't love that. But in another just incredible like I'm
Speaker 3: not mad thing. Surtavitch post that and then quote tweets
Speaker 3: his own tweet and says, if you didn't know anything
Speaker 3: about politics, you would say this is the sign I
Speaker 3: want to be on Conservative inc. Is joyless. It's the
Speaker 3: house of scolding nags. It offers young men nothing beyond
Speaker 3: moralizing and hypocrite lecture.
Speaker 4: This is probably also following the fallout of the Fuentez
Speaker 4: Tucker interview and the like sectarian right. Yep, yep, that's
Speaker 4: that's not really in fighting necessarily, but like these these
Speaker 4: debates on on Fuentez is placed within the Conservative Party,
Speaker 4: and this argument against what I guess like right wing
Speaker 4: cancel culture that you have people like vans like Matt
Speaker 4: wallsh talk about how like we should not be you know,
Speaker 4: canceling people like Tucker or you know, these young GOP staffers,
Speaker 4: her white phremacists for saying things that are offensive because
Speaker 4: we need to have a united front against the left
Speaker 4: versus this whole other reaction from like Shapiro and you
Speaker 4: have heritage just caught in the middle of this, and
Speaker 4: there's like senators and Mike Johnson who or who are
Speaker 4: trying to like keep this like legitimate, like anti Semitic,
Speaker 4: but like also like anti Israel, but through anti Semitism,
Speaker 4: like this anti Semitic is section of the right led
Speaker 4: by fuentees like keep it quarantined, which is increasingly breaking quarantine.
Speaker 3: So they're looking.
Speaker 4: At how the right has devolved into this fighting and
Speaker 4: then seeing the election of Zoran and being like, oh,
Speaker 4: the grass is greener on that side, I guess, which
Speaker 4: is really odd.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's so funny because it's just
Speaker 3: like literally just all of the shit they've been saying
Speaker 3: about the left forever, they're just suddenly like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: they the some part some of the right is like
Speaker 3: maybe maybe not literally the neo Nazi, And now they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's actually it's actually the right that is, uh, the
Speaker 3: house of scolding nags who offer young men nothing beyond
Speaker 3: moralizing and a hypocritical lecture, which is it's just amazing.
Speaker 3: It's I don't know, it's so funny. They're they're just
Speaker 3: they're just losing it insofar as there is a kind
Speaker 3: of important thing here. It's that like in a moment
Speaker 3: where you know, the sort of ruling party is becoming
Speaker 3: increasingly unpopular, they're also fracturing from the inside to the
Speaker 3: extent where like their like worst nightmare just got elected
Speaker 3: as the mayor of New York and instead of like rallying,
Speaker 3: they're doing this shit. Very funny. There's been a few
Speaker 3: governor reactions. I'm gonna pull from the Guardian here a
Speaker 3: great Abbot tweeted, joined me in a moment of silence
Speaker 3: for New York City thoughts and prayers.
Speaker 4: Abbot's been been losing it over the selection.
Speaker 3: It's so funny, it's very good. Rick Scott is the
Speaker 3: center of a Florida to the Guardian, Florida has welcomed
Speaker 3: those fleeing communists and socialist regimes for decades, wrote Senator
Speaker 3: Rick Scott of Florida. Tonight is no different. Florida will
Speaker 3: welcome all freedom loving New Yorkers.
Speaker 4: It's funny because that's very different from Abbot's promise of
Speaker 4: trying to teariff people who flee from New York to Texas.
Speaker 3: Abbot's like, oh shit, hold on, maybe maybe I can
Speaker 3: cash in on all of this money. We're gonna we're
Speaker 3: we're gonna get to whether people are actually fleeing New York.
Speaker 3: In a later segment, spoiler alert note yet, but come
Speaker 3: there is still time if we want people to flee
Speaker 3: New York. We're just gonna have to do it ourselves.
Speaker 3: Speaking of doing it ourselves, this podcast, we do it,
Speaker 3: but also the products and services support the show do it.
Speaker 4: We cannot, in fact do it ourselves. You know, we
Speaker 4: have to at this point have the assistance of the
Speaker 4: capitalist advertising industry.
Speaker 3: So enjoy, enjoy that we are back. So let's turn
Speaker 3: to Elon Musk. Who is I mean, I guess for
Speaker 3: Elon Musk he is kind of having a normal one.
Speaker 3: He is doing a bunch of his normal posts about
Speaker 3: how like Western civilization is doomed unless the core weakness
Speaker 3: is suicidal empathy.
Speaker 4: Is recognized suicidal empathy.
Speaker 3: It's so bad. There's there's a very very funny segment
Speaker 3: that I'm not gonna play just because like, I don't,
Speaker 3: I don't, I do not believe in exposing our dear
Speaker 3: listeners to having to listen to Elon must try to
Speaker 3: talk because this clip, yeah, yeah, there's no him on
Speaker 3: Joe Rogan, where Joe Rogan's like, okay, why did you
Speaker 3: call him Donnie a swindler? And it's just a minute
Speaker 3: straight of Elon Musk going uh, he has nothing.
Speaker 4: He can't even complete a full sentence he had at
Speaker 4: one point says that, you know, swindlers will always say
Speaker 4: what the audience wants to hear, and that's the only
Speaker 4: thing he's he that's the only complete thought that he gives.
Speaker 4: The rest of his sentence or attempts at making a
Speaker 4: sentence is just saying the word like five times and
Speaker 4: then saying that. Well, you know, Zorn is actually quite charismatic.
Speaker 3: His brain is so cooked, it's so good. It's and
Speaker 3: I say this as someone who stammers a significant amount.
Speaker 3: This is this is just there's nothing going on in
Speaker 3: his brain.
Speaker 4: This is closer to head empty noe thoughts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that empty no thoughts derogatory, which derogatory.
Speaker 4: Comma bands always derogatory, always, always derogatory.
Speaker 3: Oh god. So there's been this sort of mix of
Speaker 3: like the world is falling with this also kind of
Speaker 3: oh my god, he won. And also this is a
Speaker 3: very attractive charismatic dude. It is kind of breaking these
Speaker 3: people's brains that there's just like a hot guy who
Speaker 3: beat the shit out of them. There's like there's like
Speaker 3: definitely sort of like psychosexual politics going on here. You
Speaker 3: can see it in a shit posting.
Speaker 4: No, absolutely would have a heyday I don't know would
Speaker 4: have a heyday writing about the psychosexual aspect of the
Speaker 4: anti Zoron Andy. Obviously, some of the pros are unbeatful
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, this is a great things are
Speaker 3: happening in politics. Even Trump has had to defend his
Speaker 3: looks as being better than mister mum Dannie, which objectively
Speaker 3: not true. Very funny saying is quote unquote much better looking.
Speaker 3: It's so funny.
Speaker 4: But they also have this weird thing that some people
Speaker 4: on the left are doing. This is largely a Twitter thing,
Speaker 4: but this does seep out into real world conversations, which
Speaker 4: I've I've heard is thirsting after Zorn's wife and comparing
Speaker 4: and comparing Zorn's wife to like like Millennia or something,
Speaker 4: and like in a whole bunch of really weird ways.
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, that's really weird. Don't do that.
Speaker 4: Look how like beautiful and aristocratic Zoron's wife is versus
Speaker 4: God versus uh former porn star Milania Trump. And you're like, country,
Speaker 4: what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Guys? This is the doing misogyny. You're doing misogyny. It's bad.
Speaker 3: Simply don't do that.
Speaker 4: But we do love the twenty seven year old zoomer
Speaker 4: New York for a lady.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she fucking rocks. Good. Good for her, Good for her.
Speaker 3: Check out her art. I want to I want to
Speaker 3: turn a little bit to Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
Speaker 3: He said Democrats in New York have chosen a true
Speaker 3: extremists and Marxist and the consequences will be felt across
Speaker 3: our entire nation. He also said that Badabi's policies are
Speaker 3: defunding the police, seizing private property, and massive tax increases,
Speaker 3: which I fucking wish.
Speaker 4: I mean, that does all sound kind of cool, but
Speaker 4: that is that is absolutely not what Zorn's current state
Speaker 4: of politics are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's also funny because this is the same
Speaker 3: reaction they've had to every single Democrat who's been elected
Speaker 3: in the past twenty years. Totally. The right has so
Speaker 3: much just sort of weird projection shit, and I feel
Speaker 3: like they've been doing this whole like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: you all call this fascists, and now we're all fascists.
Speaker 3: And it's like, no, you called Barack Obama, who was
Speaker 3: like the most neoliberal Democrat they've ever put in office,
Speaker 3: maybe second only to Boke Clinton. Maybe like you called
Speaker 3: him a communist, and now it's like, okay, this guy's
Speaker 3: a democratic socialist, and you're just saying like, oh this time, now,
Speaker 3: this time is communism. This is just like okay, really.
Speaker 4: Now the boy who cried will think that the right
Speaker 4: does all the time. It depowers their own rhetorical tactics.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 4: And you see this in a few ways. I think
Speaker 4: you've seen this in part with like the trans mass
Speaker 4: shooter thing. And certainly they've been doing this thing around
Speaker 4: you communism or socialism for a while to the point
Speaker 4: where you can have the mayor of New York proudly
Speaker 4: call himself a socialist, a democratic socialist, and gets elected
Speaker 4: with record numbers.
Speaker 3: Yep. So one of the things that he's going to
Speaker 3: be dealing with, obviously, is is the financial class. We're
Speaker 3: gonna get to some more weird reactions. But there's a
Speaker 3: very fun NPR quote that I'm going to read. I'm
Speaker 3: always gonna read this quote. I think it's the stages
Speaker 3: of grief, said Karen Wilde, who runs the Partnership for
Speaker 3: New York City, an influential business group that represents more
Speaker 3: than three hundred large employers. It's very funny they're fully
Speaker 3: in their like acceptance negotiation phase of this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think they might not be letting
Speaker 4: on the degree to which they have been in this process.
Speaker 3: For a while.
Speaker 4: There was like a final push among like Bloomberg, who
Speaker 4: probably met with Mamdannie like months ago, and they like
Speaker 4: developed like a kind of like truce, which Bloomberg broke
Speaker 4: in the week before the election when he suddenly funneled
Speaker 4: millions of dollars into islamaphobic ads like nine to eleven ads.
Speaker 3: But there was a lot of.
Speaker 4: Meetings happening between Mamdani and people who would make up
Speaker 4: his future administration and the business class, which have happened
Speaker 4: since he won the primary in June. And this sort
Speaker 4: of negotiating and bargaining has been going on for quite
Speaker 4: a while. And I think the acceptance now is really
Speaker 4: the final I mean, these steps aren't necessarily always always
Speaker 4: like sequential, but I think we were rapidly approaching the
Speaker 4: acceptance phase across the city and people are actually looking
Speaker 4: at like realistically and what what the what the negotiating
Speaker 4: side of enacting these things is going to look like,
Speaker 4: including the financial people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that said, Ken Griffin not happy at all. No,
Speaker 3: they're not happy. No, this is this is a business
Speaker 3: Insider for the people of New York. I pray that
Speaker 3: the policies Montdammy uses to govern and lead New York
Speaker 3: are different than the talking points he used to win
Speaker 3: the may own race. People in New York deserve better.
Speaker 3: I do want to I did cut out the part
Speaker 3: in the middle of There's the Business Insider where he
Speaker 3: said this Wednesday at the American Business Forum in Miami.
Speaker 3: In New York like to say this very funny. Hell yeah,
Speaker 3: very funny in this sort of like crashout spectrum. So tho,
Speaker 3: the people who are like having the absolute worst time
Speaker 3: are a bunch of Israeli politicians who are very mad
Speaker 3: about this shocking. Yeah, I'm just gonna quote the Washington
Speaker 3: Post here. Israel's far right Minister of Security Ben Gavir
Speaker 3: said Wednesday that Mamdami's win would be quote remembered eternally.
Speaker 3: Is the moment when anti Semitism overcame common sense. Diaspora
Speaker 3: Affairs Minister on each I cheekly, in an excoriating statement,
Speaker 3: accused New York City of quote handing its keys over
Speaker 3: to a Hamas supporter. And this is also a giant
Speaker 3: loss for one Benjamin Nett and Yahou who Mamdami has
Speaker 3: said he will arrest that's put in New York, which
Speaker 3: rocks very funny. Will this actually happen? I don't know, hilarious.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean these things just don't work anymore, like
Speaker 4: they Yeah, you, Like I watched an interview with Jonathan Greenblatt,
Speaker 4: the head of the ADL like Good Morning America, like
Speaker 4: like talking about this and how they're establishing an anti
Speaker 4: Semitism monitor to track the Zorn administration. And even like
Speaker 4: the hosts of Good Morning America were like, come on, man,
Speaker 4: Like that's not he's not he's not an anti se
Speaker 4: Like he's he's against he's against the genocide of Gaza.
Speaker 4: Like he's not. He's not like a Jew hating anti semi. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and like they were even getting tired of green BLAT's
Speaker 4: little like shtick and how he was constantly like performing
Speaker 4: to the camera to try to get people to like,
Speaker 4: I don't report incidents that then they'll add into this
Speaker 4: into this monitor program, so they'll try to blame them
Speaker 4: Amdani administration for not protecting Jews or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: This was on Mourning Joe on ms NBC not good
Speaker 4: Morning America, My apologies.
Speaker 3: This is also you know, if you want to talk
Speaker 3: about another sort of category of losers, just like all
Speaker 3: of the unhinged islamophobia. Oh yeah, like all the people
Speaker 3: spreading that God annihilated. Yeah, just absolutely smash and like
Speaker 3: and yeah, and you know it is worth saying. Yeah, like,
Speaker 3: this was one of the most racist campaigns I have
Speaker 3: ever seen, but that Andrew Cuomo sort of waged it
Speaker 3: was oh yeah, just hideous, more racist than Trump versus
Speaker 3: Kamala by far. Yeah, like exceptionally so, and done by
Speaker 3: you Democrat establishment figures largely yep, man, just rancid and
Speaker 3: they got their ass handed to them. And I think
Speaker 3: that's good. There's a very very public level of exceptions
Speaker 3: for soomophobia. You can just say the most homophobic shit
Speaker 3: anyone's ever heard on TV and it's fine and no
Speaker 3: one does anything. But also, like, people don't fucking like
Speaker 3: that shit. It sucks, it's awful, and fuck these people.
Speaker 3: And you know, I think this is sort of the
Speaker 3: tide turning. Oh and speaking of the tide turning, Bill Ackmans,
Speaker 3: as we've talked about on ED, bending the knee, saying
Speaker 3: Congress they are on about dominy. Congrats on the wind.
Speaker 3: Now you have a big responsibility if I could help
Speaker 3: New York City, just let me know what I can do.
Speaker 3: Very good. So to sort of close out this, like
Speaker 3: the losers section, I want to turn there's a great
Speaker 3: piece and defector about the people who've threatened to leave
Speaker 3: New York City if Mom Donnie won and unfortunately reached
Speaker 3: out for comment, none of them were actually leaving. It's
Speaker 3: really sad because people don't want to leave the city.
Speaker 4: It's a good city, which is the whole point of
Speaker 4: Zorn's campaign was about how much the city is cool
Speaker 4: and rocks and Cueobo's campaign was but how much it's
Speaker 4: bad and scary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And unfortunately, tragically this does mean that you are
Speaker 3: going to have to have Dave Portney and this whole
Speaker 3: this whole crew of Barshel dipshits still in the city.
Speaker 3: So good luck. I hope you appropriate them. I hope
Speaker 3: they hope they have a bad time. Now I want
Speaker 3: I want to move into my last category, which is
Speaker 3: the sort of bad category. We got a kind of
Speaker 3: wild Obama quote quote the future looks a little bit brighter.
Speaker 3: It's a reminder that when we come together around strong,
Speaker 3: forward looking leaders who care about the issues that matter,
Speaker 3: we can win. It's a it's a very silly quote.
Speaker 3: The odds that Obama personally had at least one person
Speaker 3: on that campaign staff beaten dream occupy are very high.
Speaker 3: Like it's it's really truly this moment of like, brother,
Speaker 3: you spent so much time trying to make sure this
Speaker 3: wouldn't happen, and you have failed, and now you're in
Speaker 3: the like, I'm gonna do the Obama thing. We're like,
Speaker 3: I'm the friend of all the young leaders, and I'm
Speaker 3: going to give them the worst advice You've ever heard
Speaker 3: in your entire life. I don't know, still still still
Speaker 3: have never gone over Obama personally intervening to make sure
Speaker 3: the NBA players didn't go on strike during the uprising.
Speaker 3: Oh god, what of the one of the worst like
Speaker 3: post presidents moments I've ever seen. I want to close
Speaker 3: on Jamie Diamond, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase, who
Speaker 3: when I sked what mont Donnie said quote he's a
Speaker 3: young man, will he get good at it? I haven't
Speaker 3: said about Muntdonmmie making and implementing good policies. I see
Speaker 3: a lot of people in big jobs, including big political jobs,
Speaker 3: they grow into it. I've seen a lot of people
Speaker 3: they kind of swell into the job, they get worse,
Speaker 3: they you know, all of it becomes about them. I'm
Speaker 3: hoping he's the good one and that will be important
Speaker 3: for the future in New York, he said, true, true,
Speaker 3: and real.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 4: I mean, like there is a lot of this slow capitulation,
Speaker 4: which you're even seeing with private comments from Trump that
Speaker 4: are being leaked into reporting through the New York Times,
Speaker 4: where in private Trump has called it mister mom Donnie
Speaker 4: a slick and good talker and a talented politician, and
Speaker 4: last Wednesday said that he might quote help him a
Speaker 4: little bit maybe unquote, and that he wants New York
Speaker 4: to succeed, which is, you know, contrary to like previous
Speaker 4: threats of like pulling back all funding if I'm Donnie
Speaker 4: gets elected.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And I think part of part of this reaction is
Speaker 4: both like how strong Zorn's victory is. We all like
Speaker 4: know that Trump likes winners, but also the fact that
Speaker 4: Zorn has like very quickly tried to establish dominance over
Speaker 4: the president in some ways hm hmm, in a way
Speaker 4: that like someone like Trump like kind of respects with
Speaker 4: Mam Donnie positioning himself as like a legitimate, like adversarial
Speaker 4: figure to Trump. Yeah, like right off the bat, And
Speaker 4: there's a little bit of the Trumpian mind that actually
Speaker 4: kind of appreciates that and thinks it's like cool and impressive.
Speaker 3: During the first Trump administration that there was a whole
Speaker 3: running theory that if you could get Trump in a
Speaker 3: room with Hugo Chavez, you can make him a socialist
Speaker 3: in like an hour, because he really does just repeat
Speaker 3: the last thing anyone in a room said to him.
Speaker 3: So we're like, we're finally going to test the theory
Speaker 3: of can we get a charismatic person in the room
Speaker 3: with him and make him do stuff he would normally do?
Speaker 4: And probably not, but you know, I mean, and like
Speaker 4: the biggest thing right now is like the difference in
Speaker 4: immigration policy.
Speaker 3: But like Trump's from New York.
Speaker 4: Trump knows how much New York is a city built
Speaker 4: by and run by immigrants, Like he knows that when
Speaker 4: Stephen Miller is like orchestrating all of his messaging, it's
Speaker 4: like the worst of the worst of the anti immigrant stuff.
Speaker 4: But I think in terms of Zorn's opposition to Trump,
Speaker 4: primarily being with immigration. I think Trump understands how immigration
Speaker 4: like rests very importantly into the identity of New York
Speaker 4: and in which with that's like the main oppositional force.
Speaker 4: I think Trump similarly well, is gonna understand where Mom
Speaker 4: Dannie is coming from.
Speaker 5: In a way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think I think we are going to
Speaker 3: see like a particularly like Stephen Miller, Oh yeah, conflict
Speaker 3: as this goes on.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, because this is this is the perfect example of
Speaker 4: stuff that Miller and people like Matt Walsh and like
Speaker 4: the Great Replacement people have been talking about. And the
Speaker 4: other huge batch of reactions that you're seeing from people
Speaker 4: like Walsh is that this election only went this way
Speaker 4: because of how many foreigners were allowed to vote in
Speaker 4: New York.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: If this election was done by true New Yorkers quote
Speaker 4: unquote yep, then quota would have won. And looking there
Speaker 4: results of this election, looking at how many immigrants voted,
Speaker 4: people who have moved to New York in the past
Speaker 4: ten years, past five years, Mam Donnie did very well
Speaker 4: with with those groups.
Speaker 3: You have a lot of these like.
Speaker 4: Far right anti immigration people, yeah, pointing towards that as
Speaker 4: being like, this is what we're trying to defend the
Speaker 4: country against or else. All of our elections are going
Speaker 4: to go like this unless we make sure that only
Speaker 4: white Americans can vote.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then and so there's there's that reaction, water
Speaker 3: sign the other the the other reaction from roughly that
Speaker 3: crowd is women cannot be allowed to vote.
Speaker 4: Yes, which they also they also believe that like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: this analysis obviously has faults, but it's it's even falling
Speaker 4: apart in terms of like the young male vote. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: they got hammered, which the Republicans have, you know, have
Speaker 4: been been very very excited about about how much you know,
Speaker 4: young men are voting for the Republican Party. Right, young
Speaker 4: young men are all Republican, even if young women are
Speaker 4: all the Democrats. And you see in specifically this election
Speaker 4: where mom Donnie is up forty percent with young men,
Speaker 4: and the divide among men is mostly through age, with
Speaker 4: older men going for Cuobo and millennials and gen Z
Speaker 4: men swinging very strongly towards Mamdani. You have all these
Speaker 4: like Democrat thinking trying to figure out how do we
Speaker 4: attract the young male vote, how do we do this?
Speaker 4: And you have a guy show you what kind of
Speaker 4: policies what kind of messaging works exceedingly Well, Yeah, which
Speaker 4: just happens when people tried so hard to kill that strategy,
Speaker 4: and it's was proven twice in a row, first with
Speaker 4: the primary and even more so with the general.
Speaker 3: And yeah, that will frighten the GOP.
Speaker 4: It'll frighten them seeing that young men will vote for
Speaker 4: a democratic socialist if they actually have these policies and
Speaker 4: you have this type of like solid messaging, they're not condescending,
Speaker 4: and they candidate embodies like a new generation of change.
Speaker 4: It's very threatening to the GOP and to establishment Democrats.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like, like I've see Steve Bannon's out here
Speaker 3: being like, if he leaves in the midterms and leaves
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty eight, I'm going to prison, which from.
Speaker 4: Your own here, So like, No, the biggest mistake the
Speaker 4: Democrats made last time, well, there's many many big mistakes,
Speaker 4: all right, Palestine being a huge one.
Speaker 3: But I think a huge mistake they made.
Speaker 4: It's not completely destroying Trump and his whole like cat's
Speaker 4: ability to like exist in public life, like they he
Speaker 4: Trump should have been immediately in prisoned for trying to
Speaker 4: overthrow the government and basically set into a whole and
Speaker 4: after that Supreme Court ruling on the presidential community, it
Speaker 4: should have been taken out as like a national security threat.
Speaker 4: Like Democrats cannot cannot play this like they go low,
Speaker 4: we go high game anymore.
Speaker 3: If we're going to get out of this, and it's
Speaker 3: probably not given the Democrats, you do this, but like
Speaker 3: are Nuremberg is going to have to make the original
Speaker 3: Nuremberg look like paper clip.
Speaker 4: Like, well, that's what the original Nuremburg was, the original Nuremberg.
Speaker 3: Also see that we were are Neurmberg to Nurmberg harder?
Speaker 3: I see, Yeah, I'm actually doing it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I really like Jacob Geller's video on Nuremberg, and
Speaker 4: it is it is a nice emotional play to fall
Speaker 4: back on in times of of torment. But I don't
Speaker 4: think we're gonna Nuremberg ourselves out of this one. And
Speaker 4: unfortunately I don't have a very strong solid alternative at
Speaker 4: the moment. But at the very least Trump should have
Speaker 4: been treated much much harsher after after January sixth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can leave it as for now. Nuremberg to
Speaker 3: Warren's an ascend into Nuremberg. Well, this has been a
Speaker 3: gun happen here a rare, a rare, upbeat episode where
Speaker 3: all of our enemies are having a very bad time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're also mad about uh Lena Kahan on the
Speaker 4: transition team.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, very funny.
Speaker 4: They're so very mad, very mad, And go to Transition
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five to learn more about Sooron's Smaral Transition team.
Speaker 4: A fantastic url, really really going for it Transition twenty
Speaker 4: twenty five.
Speaker 3: Stealing treads Valor true real you go, girl. I give
Speaker 3: Zora on the past.
Speaker 5: He can say it.
Speaker 3: Zor invove Dubby estrogen.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, he's fine as he is.
Speaker 3: We're transit the comfort. He's actually a good looking man.
Speaker 3: He doesn't need it.
Speaker 4: He's actually he's actually figured it out.
Speaker 3: I think. Anyway, we're ending here.
Speaker 5: Hello, if you want to welcome to it could happen here?
Speaker 5: A punk asked, where I have just been attacked for
Speaker 5: my identity as a British person by my colleague Garrison Davis.
Speaker 3: I gere it's going to happen again?
Speaker 5: Really?
Speaker 3: I never This podcast is not a safe space.
Speaker 5: Not for British people. Sadly, many many such places for us,
Speaker 5: including Britain, which is a country which is not doing
Speaker 5: so well right now, the Britain is still very safe.
Speaker 5: I don't want to talk about Britain today. I do, incidentally,
Speaker 5: I guess because I grew up in a country that
Speaker 5: has virtually no fucking public land. I mean in the commons.
Speaker 3: Yes, actually kind of topical, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 5: That is a question that actually and so earlier this
Speaker 5: year in September, I was staying with which in people
Speaker 5: who are indigenous to the Northern Alaskan, Interior Arctic and Subarctic,
Speaker 5: and one of them was like, Hey, how did you
Speaker 5: guys get so dislocated from your lands? One of my
Speaker 5: friends who I was talking to, and it was a
Speaker 5: really interesting question for me. Great because they have lived
Speaker 5: on that same land for as long as human beings
Speaker 5: have existed in the Americas, the twenty five thousand years
Speaker 5: something like that. Like, the answer is the enclosure of
Speaker 5: the commons, right, the answer is like proto capitalism is
Speaker 5: what removed folks like me from the land and identifying
Speaker 5: in a way that those people identify with the land.
Speaker 5: But in the United States, we do have a little
Speaker 5: bit or quite a lot actually of public land, right,
Speaker 5: various different types of public land, various different land protections,
Speaker 5: that anyone can go to where you don't have to
Speaker 5: be in America or a citizen. Anyone can go to
Speaker 5: public lands and enjoy them. Unfortunately, Utah Senator quote unquote
Speaker 5: based Mike Lee is once again attempting to weaken protections
Speaker 5: on wilderness, which will render some of the small parts
Speaker 5: of the USA they have not been fundamentally damaged by
Speaker 5: capitalism permanently and irrevocably changed. Are you familiar with Mike Lee. Yeah,
Speaker 5: he's the senator from Utah, the Senator from Utah. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and he's based as you have said, Yes, he's based, right,
Speaker 5: that's this. He's a hashtag poster. He's a poster.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: He operates a Twitter account which some might deem as
Speaker 4: offensive and tweets about current current events in a very
Speaker 4: provocative way. Yeah, usually in line with some kind of
Speaker 4: partisan sentiments.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's pretty fair.
Speaker 4: Specifically, following the assassination of Melissa Hortman and her husband,
Speaker 4: made a series of of tweets that were I guess,
Speaker 4: kind of insensitive, if not actually if not laying blame
Speaker 4: at the governor of Minnesota in this kind of ironic
Speaker 4: joking way where you have plausible deniability, but in general
Speaker 4: handled that situation very grossly, and I think that that's
Speaker 4: what most people might know his tweets for. But he's
Speaker 4: very active, he's he's tweets about many many a thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, if he thinks that he post sit but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: his most people will know him as a guy who
Speaker 5: made the extremely poor taste posts following those murders Nightmare
Speaker 5: on walls the street. Yeah, just nothing to be posting
Speaker 5: U when some people have been murdered.
Speaker 4: I think in general, when people are murdered, I think
Speaker 4: we as humans should.
Speaker 5: Should post the last Yeah. Yeah, right, if somebody has died, like,
Speaker 5: just don't post you know it did? Maybe nice to
Speaker 5: say this is terrible, so and your condolences or whatever,
Speaker 5: but realistically their family aren't looking on on Twitter dot
Speaker 5: com to see you who who's sending their condolences, but
Speaker 5: they sure as funk we'll find out if you try
Speaker 5: and make a funny about it. So to just don't
Speaker 5: just resist urge to post another urge that Mike Lee
Speaker 5: sadly have is.
Speaker 3: I don't like that at all?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you like we're talking about Mike Lee's urges.
Speaker 5: Okay, it's in the broadcastable space. Mike Lee has the
Speaker 5: urge to sell off public land. He has tried twice
Speaker 5: this year. We spoke about this a little bit on
Speaker 5: ed right. We talked about it in the context of
Speaker 5: the Big Beautiful Bill or the one Big Beautiful Bill Act.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did try that like half a year ago.
Speaker 5: Yes, he did. Well, Garrison, I regret to inform you
Speaker 5: that Mike Lee is back somehow.
Speaker 3: Mike Lee has returned.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and this time he has got a new thing.
Speaker 5: So last time, if you remember, he talked about selling
Speaker 5: off the public land to make affordable housing. Sure, sure, yeah.
Speaker 3: Not going to look into this any further.
Speaker 5: And I'm gonna that was exactly what he was relying on.
Speaker 5: That no one gave a shit about the millions of
Speaker 5: acres that we all get access to, and they would
Speaker 5: just trust him on.
Speaker 3: That one based Mike Lee and his abundance exactly.
Speaker 5: It's him and Ran shaking hands when it comes to
Speaker 5: affordable housing, but something they care about very much, I'm sure,
Speaker 5: something that Mike Lee has campaigned on for. He did
Speaker 5: not stick Landing on that because people read the proposal
Speaker 5: and they noticed that it was going to do nothing
Speaker 5: for housing affordability whatsoever. If it did create any housing
Speaker 5: at all. It was going to be like super rich
Speaker 5: people's McMansions. You know, this was not going to do
Speaker 5: anything to move the needlean and affordable housing in the US.
Speaker 5: This time he has found a cause which receives even
Speaker 5: less scrutiny. Can you guess what it is, Garrison.
Speaker 4: Ah, for why we need to sell the public lands? Yes,
Speaker 4: I'm trying to not just look ahead on your script.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there is a document in front of you which,
Speaker 5: as he asked, it, so close your eyes. But there's
Speaker 5: like two or three things in the US where everyone
Speaker 5: just seems to turn a blind eye.
Speaker 4: To, like, Oh, I mean this is it for like
Speaker 4: is it for like developing land for like oil data centers?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 5: Well, that probably is what's happening. But he's he's smart
Speaker 5: enough not to say that.
Speaker 4: Right, super gold magic carp as in the as in
Speaker 4: the film Eddington. I mean I would guess the data centers,
Speaker 4: but that that's that I could be wrong.
Speaker 5: It's border security. Oh great, of course, right, you could
Speaker 5: have said anti terrorism and probably got there to you.
Speaker 5: But no, it is it is securing US southern well
Speaker 5: all aboarders, actually southern border, northern border, eastern and Western
Speaker 5: maritime borders. Obviously they're they're looking to prevent any more
Speaker 5: people coming in from Canada.
Speaker 8: Is not a border stick that that is correct, that
Speaker 8: borders because literally, so you go to search something, pulled
Speaker 8: up the map of the United States. I was like,
Speaker 8: I don't think you maybe I'm misremembering, but Uta is
Speaker 8: not a border state.
Speaker 5: Is absolutely not a border states.
Speaker 4: Actually not a border state. It is above Arizona, which.
Speaker 5: Is yeah, so that is perhaps what's going on here.
Speaker 5: Mike Lee has found a way to sell off public
Speaker 5: lands without selling off Utah public lands. Oh, in this case,
Speaker 5: not really sell off, but destroy and degrade in a
Speaker 5: way which is very clearly going to lead to commercial exploitation.
Speaker 5: Right what Lee proposes, what Lee's bill has a bunch
Speaker 5: of cosponsors. I believe the only border state senator co
Speaker 5: sponsoring it is head crewis. Yeah, that makes sense, big
Speaker 5: public lands, respector. But Lie's bill would allow the Department
Speaker 5: of Homeland Security to quote inventory illegal roads and trails
Speaker 5: on public land within one hundred miles of the border
Speaker 5: and then convert them into navigable roads. That is the
Speaker 5: part that makes no sense, right, Like when you look
Speaker 5: at Lee's statements and I will read one of Lee's
Speaker 5: statements here. So this is a statement on the Senate
Speaker 5: Energy Committee web page where they talk about Energy Natural
Speaker 5: Resources Committee. Is quote from Mike Lee explaining his bill quote,
Speaker 5: Biden's open border chaos is destroying America's crown duels. I'm
Speaker 5: going to pause here to note this. According to my watch,
Speaker 5: we're at November seventh, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Well your watches, rog, Yeah, we.
Speaker 5: Are once again asking the most important question of.
Speaker 2: Our time was president who is?
Speaker 3: He used the presidense?
Speaker 5: It didn't. It's not even like talking about twenty twenty
Speaker 5: and pretending that Trumble was a president.
Speaker 4: He's doing it right now, that the art border policies
Speaker 4: are destroying our nactual lands.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we were a year after the election. You've had
Speaker 5: time to come to terms with this. You can't just
Speaker 5: keep pointing at Joe Biden like but apparently I guess
Speaker 5: you can.
Speaker 4: They're going to keep doing that for three more years
Speaker 4: until there's a new guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So let's go on with Chairman Lee, his chairman
Speaker 5: of this Senate Energy Natural Resources Committee. Right, Families who
Speaker 5: want to enjoy a safe hike or camp out are
Speaker 5: instead finding trash piles, burned landscapes, and trails closed because
Speaker 5: rangers are stuck cleaning up the fallout. Cartels are exploiting
Speaker 5: the disorder, using these lands as cover for their operations.
Speaker 5: This bill gives land managers and border agents tools to
Speaker 5: restore order and protect these places for the people they
Speaker 5: were meant to serve. He's doing the thing where he
Speaker 5: says one thing and then his build does something completely different. Yeah,
Speaker 5: what he is saying is on the face of it,
Speaker 5: somewhat ridiculous. But what he's claiming he's going to do
Speaker 5: is protect these lands.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 5: What the bill allows them to do is to find
Speaker 5: roads that are not permitted and turn them into navigable roads.
Speaker 4: So just actually pave roads, yes, in the protected wildlife in.
Speaker 5: The Yeah, well, crucially in wilderness areas. Right, So in
Speaker 5: the nineteen sixty four Wilderness Act not allow for there
Speaker 5: to be any mechanized access. Lie's bill proposes not just
Speaker 5: to amend the Wilderness Act for within one hundred miles
Speaker 5: of the border, but to amend it entirely to allow
Speaker 5: for the construction of roads so.
Speaker 3: That they can pulice the public lands better. That's that's
Speaker 3: what he's saying. Yeah, right.
Speaker 5: Well, he's one of his claims is for search and rescue,
Speaker 5: and that there are already exemptions that allow for mechanize
Speaker 5: search and rescue access, right, like yeah, things like helicopters, right, helicopters. Yeah,
Speaker 5: if you get and even like you get like motorized gurneys,
Speaker 5: you can use the SAR things like that, right, Like
Speaker 5: they even ATVs. Right, there's a threat to human.
Speaker 3: Lives a Toyota tacoma.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you'd struggle in most wilderness lands with
Speaker 5: the tacoma, but yeah, you could. You could give it
Speaker 5: a college try, but it's ludicrous. He hasn't even made
Speaker 5: an effort to join the dots, you know. It also
Speaker 5: calls for fire mitigation by clearing fuels and building fire breaks,
Speaker 5: and includes a provision that would quote address invasive or
Speaker 5: non native species in the wilderness area. Yeah, like what
Speaker 5: are you going to go in there and round us?
Speaker 4: Everyone's planting and spreading invasive species.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, of course they're invasive species right. Late, Like,
Speaker 5: if you go to parts of where I live, like
Speaker 5: you'll see mustard, which is not an indigenous species. Because
Speaker 5: the climate's changing and people move around the world and
Speaker 5: like lots and lots of animals that weren't like here
Speaker 5: twenty thousand years ago, are here now.
Speaker 4: I mean, you can make an argument for managing these areas.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's coming at this from an environmental
Speaker 4: conservation standpoint.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I don't know what the non native species thing is
Speaker 5: about other than just like nativism for plants, Like, I
Speaker 5: genuinely can't work it out. If anyone has any ideas,
Speaker 5: please let me know. It also attempts to inventory damage
Speaker 5: done to public lands by migrants, Like what wildfires are
Speaker 5: caused by migrants? How many national parks are trashed by migrants?
Speaker 3: Oh my god?
Speaker 4: Yeah, as opposed to the Americans that has since you
Speaker 4: treat these areas like dogshit. Yeahs who simply just don't
Speaker 4: do their jobs because they're too lazy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And like the literally thousands of people a year
Speaker 5: who fucking drag their refrigerator or television onto public land
Speaker 5: and execute it by firing squad. Yeah, like yeah, maybe
Speaker 5: make a bill about that. I mean, you want to
Speaker 5: do something nice for public land. I want to give
Speaker 5: a definition of wilderness from Howard. I think it's zamasap
Speaker 5: and he ever read his name with the Wilderness Society,
Speaker 5: who more or less wrote Act It defines wilderness as
Speaker 5: quote a wilderness in contrast with those areas where man
Speaker 5: and his own works dominate the landscape is hereby recognized
Speaker 5: as an area where the earth and its community of
Speaker 5: life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a
Speaker 5: visitor and who does not remain. I don't actually really
Speaker 5: like that definition. I like wilderness, but I'm not a
Speaker 5: big fan of the idea of like, quote unquote untouched wilderness. Right, like,
Speaker 5: every bit of what is now the United States is
Speaker 5: a place where indigenous people have been living and surviving
Speaker 5: for tens of thousands of years before it was the
Speaker 5: United States. It's not untouched. It's just not fucked by
Speaker 5: extractive capitalism in a way that a lot of our
Speaker 5: land has been in the last two hundred years.
Speaker 4: There could be touching without a fuck, that's what you're saying.
Speaker 5: I saw this mischievous look come on their face, and
Speaker 5: I didn't know which direction they were going to take it,
Speaker 5: but I didn't expect that one.
Speaker 3: Now this is podcasting.
Speaker 5: Yeah wow, yeah, we've just left the news reel. Let's
Speaker 5: do an advertising break it so we can't come back
Speaker 5: from that, all right, we've returned out de scandalized myself.
Speaker 5: Lee is currently making his claims right that this will
Speaker 5: somehow make the border safer and make people on public
Speaker 5: lands safer.
Speaker 4: This is such the thinnest justification that you're throwing in,
Speaker 4: Like this is so I severely doubt he sincerely even
Speaker 4: believes this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, the border patrol have access to all
Speaker 5: these lands, right, like I see I think the cumber
Speaker 5: wildness of state wilderness, I see border patrol in there
Speaker 5: all the time.
Speaker 4: I can see there's many reasons for why our republic
Speaker 4: and might be interested in, like building road infrastructure in
Speaker 4: these places and border security. Frankly, is insulting that you're
Speaker 4: that he's even trying to use that as a zeitgeist justification.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's fucking ludicrous. Like the Trump administration is speed
Speaker 5: running extractive capitalism on our public lands right, just yesterday
Speaker 5: when we're recordings recording on Friday, Joe Biden is president,
Speaker 5: as you will remember, Friday seventh, November twenty twenty five,
Speaker 5: the Trump administration nominated. Okay, I've outed myself. I'm not
Speaker 5: a Biden. I'm not a Biden. Truth. The Trump administration
Speaker 5: don't d Steve Pierce to lead the Bureau of Land Management.
Speaker 5: Pis is a former New Mexico congressman who has supported
Speaker 5: brilling and fracking on federal land. He's also a serial
Speaker 5: loser in congressional and state races in New Mexico. I
Speaker 5: think he lost a Senate and a gubernatorial race, and
Speaker 5: he has voted to shrink existing public lands. The Trump
Speaker 5: admin did this before, right, people will probably if they're
Speaker 5: engaged in public land advocacy, they will remember the attempts
Speaker 5: to save the Bears Ears National Monument from oil exploitation,
Speaker 5: which again is in Utah. Utah is for whatever reason,
Speaker 5: Utah is a hotbed of anti public lands settlement. Amusingly,
Speaker 5: the previous nominee for the leadership of the BLM had
Speaker 5: to be removed when emails condemning Trump's response to January
Speaker 5: sixth came to light. She I guess failed the loyalty test.
Speaker 5: Trump has also put Doug Bergham at the head of
Speaker 5: the Department of the Interior. Right, if you're willing with
Speaker 5: Bergham's stick, guess.
Speaker 4: His name sounds incredibly familiar.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was governor I believe in North Dakota. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah,
Speaker 5: Like he did this pivot on like culture war issues
Speaker 5: where he had previously been not opposed to abortion, for example,
Speaker 5: and he just took a massive swing to the right
Speaker 5: in order to kind of align with the MAGA position
Speaker 5: over time. So he's not only in the Department of
Speaker 5: the Interior. I wrote about this on my newsletter that
Speaker 5: I write because when he was nominated, he received a
Speaker 5: letter of support from the Outdoor Recreation round Table, a
Speaker 5: bunch of outdoor brands, notably ARII was one of the
Speaker 5: brands that supported his nomination. Bergham is another big oil
Speaker 5: and gas guy, right, He's a guy who has talked
Speaker 5: about the need for energy exploitation on public land. I
Speaker 5: have a whole script, did series and in working on
Speaker 5: about specifically drilling in the Arctic refuge. But this goes
Speaker 5: far far beyond that, right, this could potentially affect every
Speaker 5: piece of public land, every national park, a re national
Speaker 5: monument in the United States.
Speaker 3: Drill baby drill, Yes, drill baby.
Speaker 5: Drill is pretty much our approach to public land these days. Amusingly,
Speaker 5: ARII was shamed into rescinding their support of Bergham. Good
Speaker 5: for that, Yeah, yeah, one of the few instances where
Speaker 5: people probably posted their way to a change in in
Speaker 5: some in some kind of some kind of policy. I guess,
Speaker 5: even though it's only ARII policy, I want to talk
Speaker 5: a little bit about like how we got to this
Speaker 5: idea of public land and the sort of way that
Speaker 5: it's sometimes referred to, and in a where I would
Speaker 5: prefer we talked about it. I guess the idea we
Speaker 5: have right now is that there are various tiers of
Speaker 5: public land. Right, there's Bureau of Land Management land, which
Speaker 5: is often the least protected. We have national parks, we
Speaker 5: have national monuments, we have national forests, and we have wilderness, right,
Speaker 5: wilderness being among the most protected. The problem with this
Speaker 5: approach is that ecosystems don't necessarily respect property lines. Right.
Speaker 5: So let's take for example, in Alaska. Right, they have
Speaker 5: hundreds of thousands of acres of their own, but their
Speaker 5: traditional way of life and indeed, like their existence depends
Speaker 5: on the existence of the porcupine caribou herd. The porcupine
Speaker 5: caribou herd makes the longest migration of any land mammal
Speaker 5: on Earth, and it carves on the coastal plane, the
Speaker 5: coastal plain. The Guichin way of saying it would be
Speaker 5: I have heard this said a lot of times. My
Speaker 5: sincere apologies if I don't get it right, like I'm
Speaker 5: trama best. What's an gwandai goodly? It means a sacred
Speaker 5: place where life begins. It's a very sacred place for gwichin.
Speaker 5: Don't go there themselves because it's a sacred place. But
Speaker 5: it is not in the land. It is part of
Speaker 5: the Arctic refuge, a place where the Trump administration is
Speaker 5: selling oil and gas leases. Right, So if the caribou
Speaker 5: can't carve, then doesn't matter. It still matters to the
Speaker 5: which you have all this land. But they won't have
Speaker 5: their cariboo, right because the herd will be so disrupted
Speaker 5: by oil and gas drilling where it's carving that it
Speaker 5: will then disrupt that whole landscape. Right without cariboo, that
Speaker 5: landscape would be fundamentally different. So right now, the way
Speaker 5: we talk about public lands, I think we talk about
Speaker 5: them like in terms of leisure, right, Like often they're
Speaker 5: scene as having a value, Like I guess the classic
Speaker 5: example would be maybe don't remember this gag. Patagonia run
Speaker 5: an advertising campaign called the Places We Play In the
Speaker 5: last Trump administration. That's not it, right, that is not cool.
Speaker 5: I think if we only see wilderness as a place
Speaker 5: where like folks go outside to do send the nar
Speaker 5: on climbing routes and and fucking shred some mountain bike trails, bro,
Speaker 5: then we fundamentally like missed the value of it, right. Yeah,
Speaker 5: this goes back a long long time. For instance, if
Speaker 5: we look back in ninety twenty nine with specifically with
Speaker 5: the protection of the Arctic Refuge, we can see this
Speaker 5: piece that Bob Marshall wrote. Bob Marshall was a forest
Speaker 5: at the time, but he's kind of important in this
Speaker 5: creating this idea of like wilderness and wilderness protections. He
Speaker 5: talked about the quote unquote emotional values of the frontier
Speaker 5: being preserved in the wilderness, which again I think kind
Speaker 5: of tells us a lot a lot of what's going
Speaker 5: on here.
Speaker 4: It's a very very Theodore Roosevelt brained approach to conservation.
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, Like we can go out there and we
Speaker 5: can all pretend to be like the guys who participated
Speaker 5: in the genocide of indigenous peoples of North America. I
Speaker 5: guess like he also he considered using the definition attract
Speaker 5: of solitude and savageness, which again like it says a
Speaker 5: lot about like it's removing the people from the land,
Speaker 5: right like, like both literally and in our conception of it.
Speaker 5: And I don't think we should do that. Right when
Speaker 5: we talk about wilderness, we need to talk about it
Speaker 5: hand in hand with the indigenous people of this country
Speaker 5: and their traditional management practices which allowed this place to
Speaker 5: be unspoiled until folks started to exploit it in the
Speaker 5: last couple of hundred years. They'll take an ad break,
Speaker 5: hopefully we get something for like fracking or some other
Speaker 5: petrochemical industry, and it will be right back. We are back,
Speaker 5: and we are talking about Senator Mike Lee again, Garrison,
Speaker 5: would you like to guess which industries have emerged on
Speaker 5: the top of Senator Mike Lee's donor list when I
Speaker 5: cruise unto open secrets?
Speaker 3: Is it fracking and drilling?
Speaker 5: See real estate? He's got a ton of money from
Speaker 5: real estate. About six hundred and sixty five thousand. Six
Speaker 5: hundred and sixty five thousand is not that much money
Speaker 5: when you consider the millions of acres of public lands
Speaker 5: which would be completely and permanently altered by.
Speaker 4: This, right, Yeah, he really should be asking for a
Speaker 4: lot more money to sell.
Speaker 5: Off the secure the bag.
Speaker 4: If you're going to do this, it's grossly undervalue.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I always look at campaign donations and I kind
Speaker 5: of expect them to be in the billions or trillions
Speaker 5: when like you're looking at just this massive and permanent
Speaker 5: change in government policy.
Speaker 3: It's that easy, folks.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which is why we are launching a crowdfunding campaign
Speaker 5: to buy back or the public lands. We're not no
Speaker 5: one should own them. We should not be buying them
Speaker 5: back that they should be protected. It's kind of remarkable
Speaker 5: how many of our public lands this would impact right
Speaker 5: within one hundred miles of the border that gives us
Speaker 5: two thirds of the United States population. The general definition
Speaker 5: that DHS has operated with also includes all of the
Speaker 5: Great Lakes as quote unquote international waterways, so that takes
Speaker 5: in like a good chunk of the Midwest, right. It
Speaker 5: would then go one hundred miles from the shore of
Speaker 5: any of the Great Lakes. I've seen this reported on
Speaker 5: very poorly or not at all. A lot of the
Speaker 5: people who are better at talking about public lands are
Speaker 5: like the hunting fishing, like hook and bullet media. They
Speaker 5: will talk about it more in my experience, and like
Speaker 5: the straight up outdoor media right, which is where I've
Speaker 5: made my career at least somewhat for the last fifteen years.
Speaker 5: They will also go harder for it, like it's generally
Speaker 5: a more conservative world, but like they will they will
Speaker 5: go after politicians who sell public lands. But I think
Speaker 5: if you're in capable understanding that, like the border as
Speaker 5: a zone of exception, the border as a zone without
Speaker 5: constitutional rights is a problem, and this selling of the
Speaker 5: public lands is part of that problem, then like it's
Speaker 5: very hard to have a complete analysis of this. So
Speaker 5: like I've seen a lot of analysis without any seemingly
Speaker 5: where the rights don't understand that United States operates this
Speaker 5: one hundred mile border enforcement zone, right, and that you,
Speaker 5: as a US citizen or as a non senstem have
Speaker 5: fewer rights within that enforcement zone. I have seen a
Speaker 5: lot of analysis which doesn't take into account this weird
Speaker 5: assessing of migrant damage to public land, Like in what
Speaker 5: world is that a useful allocation of governments? Like there
Speaker 5: are places right where like if I think about the
Speaker 5: places where the Biden administration did outdoor attention, that landscape
Speaker 5: was damaged because people had fires to stay warm, and
Speaker 5: that fire cause is scarring right in our desert landscapes. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that landscape is damaged. Like, how you going to what
Speaker 5: are you going to do? There were like a thousand
Speaker 5: people a day coming through at one point. Are you
Speaker 5: going to find them all and charge them more for
Speaker 5: like misdemeanor California fire? But also there's a tiny provision
Speaker 5: of this bill that I found that suggests that migrants
Speaker 5: cannot be housed on federal public land unless they are
Speaker 5: housed in a detention center. Yeah, yeah, great, thanks. That
Speaker 5: was kind of the case before, Like you couldn't really
Speaker 5: just be like, well, I mean, by the administration did
Speaker 5: just say right, you'll Campaigre and will come get you
Speaker 5: in a week. There wasn't really a legal precedent for that.
Speaker 5: They just went ahead and did it. I guess what
Speaker 5: I want to end up with is like I'm obviously
Speaker 5: very passionate about this. I guess I'm kind of a
Speaker 5: public land super user. You do be camping, Yeah I do.
Speaker 5: I am a Yeah, I am a camping guy. If
Speaker 5: there's one thing that defines me, it's going camping. I
Speaker 5: try and sleep outside at least once a month. But yeah,
Speaker 5: most of My happiest memories in life are like moving
Speaker 5: under my own power through the mountains. That is when
Speaker 5: I'm happiest. That is how I deal with my shit.
Speaker 5: That is what I do with myself after every single
Speaker 5: one of the traumatic work trips that you that you
Speaker 5: seem to love listening to you, right like that, that
Speaker 5: is how I cope with the fact that my job
Speaker 5: is to turn trauma into stuff to go in between
Speaker 5: chumber casino ads. So, yeah, I love public lands, but
Speaker 5: you should too, even if you don't recreate on public lands, right,
Speaker 5: So that's the public lands are called America's best idea.
Speaker 5: I don't like that because inherent in having public lands
Speaker 5: is the removal of them from indigenous people, right, and
Speaker 5: indigenous people losing their sovereignty over those lands. But as
Speaker 5: things that the state has done with land goes, protecting
Speaker 5: it for future generations is one of the good ones, right,
Speaker 5: Like there are some truly special places. The vastness of
Speaker 5: the Western United States is why I live here. I
Speaker 5: cycled across the United States in twenty ten, and I
Speaker 5: was just blown away by like the scale of the
Speaker 5: landscapes without significant human damage. That's still something I'm blown
Speaker 5: away by yeah, you know, fifteen years later. I spend
Speaker 5: as much time as I can, and not just like
Speaker 5: national parks. I think a lot of people, if they've
Speaker 5: visited public land, were associated with national parks. I'd really
Speaker 5: encourage you to like hit up national forests, wilderness lands
Speaker 5: like places where there it's not a line or a
Speaker 5: ticket kiosk, Like you can have a really special wilderness
Speaker 5: experience there. But even if you don't want to, that
Speaker 5: doesn't appeal to you, if it's not something that you
Speaker 5: feel like physically or otherwise comfortable doing, the fact that
Speaker 5: it will be there for future generations, the fact that
Speaker 5: like there is potential to return this land to the
Speaker 5: indigenous people of North America without giant fucking mind scars
Speaker 5: and roads cut through it right now is something that
Speaker 5: we should fight for. And like public lands, it's one
Speaker 5: of those things where like I have conversations with dudes
Speaker 5: who do not agree with me politically at all, like
Speaker 5: people who definitely voted for Donald Trump who are also
Speaker 5: furious about this shit. And if you can help people
Speaker 5: see that this is part of a bigger problem, Like
Speaker 5: if this can be a place where we can build
Speaker 5: a coalition, that is a good thing, and it's one
Speaker 5: of those things that like to take action, you can
Speaker 5: just live out and go on the internet and write
Speaker 5: to your senator, call your representative. Like you can do
Speaker 5: these things which are so easy, low risk, and like
Speaker 5: it's a sort of engagement that like neoliberal bipartisan politics
Speaker 5: wants you to have. Right, it's not hard, but in
Speaker 5: this instance, you can do something really good by doing that.
Speaker 5: So I would encourage you to do that. Mike Lee's
Speaker 5: bill is currently in committee. I believe the Energy and
Speaker 5: Natural Resources Committee TBD whether it gets out of there,
Speaker 5: but he has tried twice, like since the summer to
Speaker 5: significantly destroy this credible thing that we all have access
Speaker 5: to in the United States. He will continue to try.
Speaker 5: This is clearly something that he has an agenda for, so, like,
Speaker 5: I would really encourage people to keep an eye out
Speaker 5: and we will keep reporting on it. Anything else you
Speaker 5: want to talk about public land scare.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's a different approach to dealing with
Speaker 4: like protected wilderness land. Prop one to amend the state
Speaker 4: Constitution just passed in New York. Basically what happened like
Speaker 4: one hundred years ago, they were building this Olympic sports
Speaker 4: complex and violation of the wilderness like protection like state
Speaker 4: like act or part of the Constitution. And to deal
Speaker 4: with that, I'm not sure what it's taken this long,
Speaker 4: but to deal with this, they have just days ago
Speaker 4: voted to amenda Constitution to set aside two thousand, five
Speaker 4: hundred acres of mountain land nearby but not on this complex,
Speaker 4: and to turn that into protected land to then continue
Speaker 4: the operation and like maintenance of the sports complex. The
Speaker 4: proposition was worded a bit weird, but I think in
Speaker 4: effect this just results in there being in in the
Speaker 4: end of more public land or more protected land specifically. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and the complex that already exists can then continue to
Speaker 4: function because the lands already it was already used.
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, like they sort of built it and then
Speaker 5: ask permission like I guess one hundred years later almost. Yeah,
Speaker 5: Like land swaps happen they like and like like sometimes
Speaker 5: you'll see people being like, oh, it's this public landing
Speaker 5: sort of Like sometimes land swaps are very menial, right,
Speaker 5: like if there's a little parcel of national forest land
Speaker 5: or like it can be it's a piece that like
Speaker 5: is next to a school and the school needs a
Speaker 5: playing field and those yeah things like that land. Landswaps
Speaker 5: do happen. And as long as we're not like losing
Speaker 5: anchorage to oil and gas or to like mcmahonson building,
Speaker 5: you know, I think we can be flexible.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: I mean if anything, this this, this will set us
Speaker 4: side thousands of acres of land to not have that
Speaker 4: happen to it. Yeah, in the mountains of like that
Speaker 4: run agyoric. Yes, and then this complex can now continue
Speaker 4: to get maintained. I think if this, if this didn't pass,
Speaker 4: they would like restrictions would fall upon the capacity of
Speaker 4: this complex started to be operating.
Speaker 5: That's dumb because you have a place which is like
Speaker 5: it's not going back, right, Like, once you've built stuff, you.
Speaker 3: Should use it.
Speaker 4: The damage has been dying, I should use it here
Speaker 4: and then protect more land exactly. Yeah, And luckily this
Speaker 4: this thing barely passed. It was it was pretty closing
Speaker 4: around fifty two percent.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 4: Most of the votes for no did come from people,
Speaker 4: I think living in New York City. I think mostly
Speaker 4: because of the way the proposition was worded. It was
Speaker 4: worded in a in an odd way because it made
Speaker 4: it sound like you're like sacrificing currently protected land at
Speaker 4: complexes on so I think people who are approaching it's
Speaker 4: from like kind of an ecological standpoint, a consumation standpoint. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like misunderstood or had or had some like differing view
Speaker 4: on like the value of protecting the current land and
Speaker 4: the complex is on versus establishing thousands of acres of
Speaker 4: more lands to be protected nearby.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I mean initiatives and propositions are often written
Speaker 5: in a particularly bizarre way, and it's a It's not
Speaker 5: like like the California Prop fifty was like two lines.
Speaker 5: This is several paragraphs of so I can see how
Speaker 5: it would have been confusing to people. But yeah, like
Speaker 5: this also happens at a state level all the time, right,
Speaker 5: Like states have public lands too. You'll see like a
Speaker 5: patchwork of state and federal and private land, especially like
Speaker 5: in some national forests in the West. Right, But that's
Speaker 5: something that especially in Republican rund states now people should
Speaker 5: be very aware of in their own states. Is like
Speaker 5: the GOP didn't used to be massively anti public plans.
Speaker 5: This is a new thing for them, right, They always
Speaker 5: felt like they needed their I guess maybe that they
Speaker 5: needed their like hunting, fishing, shooting, crowd.
Speaker 4: No, but environmentalism is now wokeafi Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this
Speaker 4: is like a post al gore.
Speaker 3: Thing of now.
Speaker 4: The conservatives associate a lot of this language with like
Speaker 4: climate change algorisms.
Speaker 3: It's his this woke element.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very strange. It's funny. Often when I'm out about,
Speaker 5: you know, like exploring in the back country, I run
Speaker 5: into guys who are out there like they're either hunting
Speaker 5: or like looking for places to hunt. I think will
Speaker 5: be like, oh, yeah, well there aren't as many of
Speaker 5: the turkeys or the deer or the whatever is they
Speaker 5: used to be. But then it's very hard for people
Speaker 5: who now can't say climate change is real to find
Speaker 5: a way of like having permission to say what they
Speaker 5: want to say because they've seen it with their own eyes. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but also the don't want to say it.
Speaker 4: But no, I mean I did an episode about this
Speaker 4: after the R and C because I talked with Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: this like Republican conservation group about how they're trying to
Speaker 4: bring back like put the conservative back in conservation.
Speaker 5: Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, I think Germany generally, the idea of
Speaker 5: them conserving anything is pretty much off the table at
Speaker 5: this point. But yeah, people getting out in public land.
Speaker 5: Will you will understand climate change. You spend long enough
Speaker 5: going to the same spot, and you're going to see
Speaker 5: what that means. So it has a lot of benefits.
Speaker 5: Go outside this weekend, go camping. It's a great desert
Speaker 5: season right now. If you're within range of a desert,
Speaker 5: go camping in the desert. Look at the stars to
Speaker 5: find a dark sky area if that's your thing. Because
Speaker 5: ARII who had the like, don't go shopping on Black Friday.
Speaker 5: Go outside. I don't know, you don't. You don't remember this.
Speaker 5: It's okay, this is just shit that I you.
Speaker 3: Know, I am.
Speaker 4: I am pro gazing at the flickering lights of civilization Garrison.
Speaker 5: No one wants to see the fucking flickering lights of civilization.
Speaker 5: I do, I do, I don't. I want to see
Speaker 5: the stars. I camped in Chaco Canyon earlier this year.
Speaker 5: Banger of a national park. That's my it's my final tip.
Speaker 5: View of the Great House at Chaco Canyon was the
Speaker 5: largest building constructed in the United States until eighteen eighty.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, yeah, it is vast.
Speaker 5: It's one of the least visited parks in a system
Speaker 5: because you have to go like seventeen miles down in
Speaker 5: dirt road. Sure, but incredible that these are the ancestral
Speaker 5: Pueblo ins, right, like the people who are the ancestors
Speaker 5: of the Pueblo tribes today. But it's an amazing place
Speaker 5: to go check out. You should all go, not at once.
Speaker 5: There's not enough space for all of you.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just rolling through Mike Lee's Twitter account.
Speaker 5: Now, oh yeah, you got any bangers? Not really really,
Speaker 5: not really.
Speaker 4: I mean he's whining about Zoron and posting a lot
Speaker 4: about Charlie Kirk and that's mostly it.
Speaker 5: See, he doesn't talk about this stuff because no one
Speaker 5: likes it. He got hammered by a bunch of like,
Speaker 5: very right wing rancher types on Twitter last time he
Speaker 5: tried to do this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 5: I think he knows better because a lot of people
Speaker 5: you can also graze cattle on public land, right, there's
Speaker 5: been a whole standoff about this. Long time listeners will
Speaker 5: remember the Bundy situation. But yeah, linked to I guess
Speaker 5: he's also pissed those people off. Now, I just went
Speaker 5: to search for the news coverage of this. The only
Speaker 5: thing we can find is a Washington Examiner. So it's
Speaker 5: it's just us and them. Got the video the autoplayers
Speaker 5: on the Washington Examiner page is petrifying.
Speaker 3: The true bastions of journalists and the Washington.
Speaker 5: Horseshoes theory come to life. Oh God, all right, I
Speaker 5: go outside. This week's last weekend. Fuck it, don't go
Speaker 5: to work, go outside, go outside tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 9: Hello everyone. This is Dana al Kurd for it could
Speaker 9: happen here.
Speaker 10: I'm a professor and analyst of Palestinian and air politics,
Speaker 10: and today we're joined by Ahmed Moore, who is the
Speaker 10: twenty twenty five Foundation for Middle.
Speaker 9: East Peace fellow.
Speaker 10: He's also an author, an activist, just very very involved
Speaker 10: in the Palestinian space and on the question of Palistini liberation.
Speaker 10: So I've invited Ahma today to discuss with us what
Speaker 10: we can understand about pro Palestine organizing in the past
Speaker 10: two years in comparison to prior to October seventh, twenty
Speaker 10: twenty three, and think kind of analytically about where we
Speaker 10: can go from here.
Speaker 9: We're recording this on November fifth, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 10: We had a very interesting night last night, whereas Ahran
Speaker 10: Mandani was named the mayor of New York City, and
Speaker 10: a lot of think pieces since about how this means
Speaker 10: nothing and actually means everything and Lapro Palestine movement is winning,
Speaker 10: it's really not winning enough, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah,
Speaker 10: we're in an interesting moment in American politics. I think
Speaker 10: the Palestine question is obviously very very relevant. So yeah,
Speaker 10: I met Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Donna.
Speaker 11: It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 10: All right, So maybe we can start with kind of
Speaker 10: an introduction to yourself. You can tell us about your
Speaker 10: experience as an activist, as an organizer.
Speaker 5: Sure, yes, as a researcher.
Speaker 11: Yeah, So I was born in Resident Palestine and Gaza
Speaker 11: and Ralphah and my family moved here when I was
Speaker 11: a kid and became naturalized so American citizen when I
Speaker 11: was ten years old. So that was in the mid nineties,
Speaker 11: and you know, went to college right after nine to eleven,
Speaker 11: and like lots of people, was galvanized around that experience.
Speaker 11: I think it was a pier. Was so a journalist
Speaker 11: both in Bede Lutin and Cairo, and often you'd meet
Speaker 11: American journalists roughly of my generation, and all of them
Speaker 11: would indicate that, you know, I became engaged around the
Speaker 11: Middle East because of nine to eleven. I think nine
Speaker 11: to eleven was four our generation, a big learning opportunity
Speaker 11: for people. The global war on terror, the war in
Speaker 11: Iraq galvanized a lot of the left, and I'm thinking
Speaker 11: now of move on dot org, and so this is
Speaker 11: really the environment that I grew up in. Today, I
Speaker 11: mostly work with The Guardian with the Nation mostly right
Speaker 11: about Palestine, Israel and American foreign policy. And as you mentioned,
Speaker 11: I'm a fellow at the Foundation for Middle East Peace,
Speaker 11: where I host a podcast, Occupied Thoughts, where we spend
Speaker 11: a lot of time thinking through policy matters related to Palisigan.
Speaker 11: I have ideas about how things have changed, but that's
Speaker 11: just a quick introduction.
Speaker 5: To me and my work.
Speaker 9: No, thank you, we're approximately the same age. I won't
Speaker 9: tell you exactly.
Speaker 10: How often, but yeah, I just I'm reflecting so much
Speaker 10: these days on how much the War on Terror was
Speaker 10: a formative moment politically for our generation, and its interaction
Speaker 10: with the Postinian issue. I think that's starting to really
Speaker 10: be understood more widely. I think maybe it was more
Speaker 10: fringe or like a very select kind of understanding of
Speaker 10: the left would have that kind of analysis for sure.
Speaker 11: Just to put a fine point on it, I mean
Speaker 11: that was the I would say generational awareness that we've
Speaker 11: been lied to. We've been lied to by Dick Cheney,
Speaker 11: George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, all of that cohort those people.
Speaker 11: You can see how that's rebounded today in Maine with
Speaker 11: Graham Plattner, somebody who fought two or three tours and
Speaker 11: then subsequently worked as a mercenary with Blackwater, was radicalized,
Speaker 11: I would say through that experience when he was watching
Speaker 11: these happy, go lucky diplomats swimming in pools in a
Speaker 11: diplomatic compound, when just outside, a savage war was being waged,
Speaker 11: an insurgency. So I would say that, you know, Palestine
Speaker 11: is so deeply interwoven. Palestine is a long history of
Speaker 11: having been lied to for people here in the United States. Domestically,
Speaker 11: that came to a head around the Iraq War. We
Speaker 11: werelied into that war. And I think you saw, you
Speaker 11: saw the way that the Biden administration particularly stuck with
Speaker 11: the playbook and alienated huge numbers of voters in twenty
Speaker 11: twenty four. So Palestine is kind of indispensal understanding how
Speaker 11: our elites in the United States have been captured by
Speaker 11: special interests, by corporatist interests, and we're beginning to see that,
Speaker 11: I think, rebound in meaningful ways. And of course, congratulations
Speaker 11: is Ron Mundani done a wonderful job. He ran an
Speaker 11: extraordinary campaign. I question, though, whether the campaign could have
Speaker 11: been successful without the awakening that occurred through two years
Speaker 11: of genocide. And what I mean by that specifically is
Speaker 11: so many of the taboos that had been enforced around identity,
Speaker 11: around good politics in America were dispensed with because those
Speaker 11: taboos were employed to suppress opposition to genocide.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 9: No, I think you're right on the money on that.
Speaker 10: I mean, in some ways, the MAGA movement in Donald
Speaker 10: Trump also capitalized on the lies of the war on
Speaker 10: Terror two. I mean, despite the incoherence of the MAGA movement,
Speaker 10: like that was part of a rebuke of the neocons.
Speaker 10: But of course the left is, especially after two years
Speaker 10: of unspeakable genocide. I think it has led to just
Speaker 10: an articulation of how much the American foreign policy in
Speaker 10: the Middle East is. You mentioned boomerang. That's an imperial
Speaker 10: boomerang that is impacting American politics. It's also highlighted how
Speaker 10: much the elite, and public opinion is bifurcated on this.
Speaker 10: Palistin has become an issue of democracy. I don't want
Speaker 10: to put words in your mouth, but that's what I
Speaker 10: would say.
Speaker 11: No, I think that's correct. I agree with that. I mean,
Speaker 11: so Palestine went from being specifically Palestine, from being a
Speaker 11: niche issue when I was in college post colonial studies
Speaker 11: majors knew about Palestine and could integrate Palestine into an
Speaker 11: understanding of life in America, to being really part of
Speaker 11: the American story today. And I think it's apt to
Speaker 11: describe it that way. The experience of watching a genocide
Speaker 11: unfold for two years has been radicalizing for many, but
Speaker 11: it's also been enlightening in that the first question was
Speaker 11: why is this happening? The second question is why can't
Speaker 11: we stop it? Okay, Israel's an independent country, we can't
Speaker 11: control them. Fine, why are we still supporting this? And
Speaker 11: ultimately you end up going down that rabbit hole and
Speaker 11: arriving at what is this Israel lobby? What is this
Speaker 11: special interest? And so I think the degree of complicity,
Speaker 11: the way in which the Biden administration blew so much smoke,
Speaker 11: the way in which both sides of the Aisle engaged
Speaker 11: in genocide and cheered the genocide has caused the Palestine
Speaker 11: issue to become deeply interwoven with the experience of being
Speaker 11: American today. And I don't think that's an overstatement, and
Speaker 11: I think concretely it means that you need an answer
Speaker 11: to the question, Well, if you can't stand up to genocide,
Speaker 11: if you can't stand up for defenseless children in Palestine,
Speaker 11: and if you're going to lie to me about it,
Speaker 11: why would I expect you to stand up for anything
Speaker 11: meaningful as it relates to my standard of living, Say,
Speaker 11: I'm a working class person. And so it's become this
Speaker 11: litmus test, at least on the left, and I think
Speaker 11: you're saying a similar dynamic playout on the right, but
Speaker 11: for totally different reasons, right right. And it's been extraordinary
Speaker 11: to behold because I think so many of us who've
Speaker 11: been in this issue for so long, we've been marking
Speaker 11: our progress in incrementalist terms, and then suddenly things have
Speaker 11: broken wide open and the world has changed very very quickly.
Speaker 10: Yeah, from my vantage point in American academia, I mean,
Speaker 10: they might have had personal feelings about Israel Palestine, they
Speaker 10: may have had sympathies, but so few people would ever
Speaker 10: talk about the erasure of Palestine in the academy or
Speaker 10: the impact of censorship and attacks on academic freedom. But
Speaker 10: now because the Palaestinan issue is being used as this
Speaker 10: cudgel to attack higher education, like you're just a normal
Speaker 10: Joshmo like math professor, You're gonna have to care and
Speaker 10: you do. And we're seeing this very much with the
Speaker 10: mobilization of the American Association of University Professors that is
Speaker 10: not a Middle East specific organization whatsoever, but they recognize
Speaker 10: the linkages between these issues, so in the ways that
Speaker 10: Palestine is interwoven with but also has impacted so many
Speaker 10: of our current realities and the policies that we're facing
Speaker 10: by the Trump administration and the Bye administration before them.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it's very clear to a lot of people.
Speaker 5: So that actually brings me to one of.
Speaker 10: The main questions that I wanted to ask you, is,
Speaker 10: aside from kind of this increased awareness and the taboos
Speaker 10: that have been broken around the discussion of Palestine and
Speaker 10: its integration in American foreign policy and American domestic policy,
Speaker 10: what are some other ways that you think since the
Speaker 10: genocide began that pro Palestine organizing has changed.
Speaker 11: So the biggest thing I've seen is that the analytical
Speaker 11: frame has changed. We used to talk about foreign policy,
Speaker 11: adventurers and wars for oil, those kinds of things. Now
Speaker 11: I think the analysis is very correctly focused on empire,
Speaker 11: the way in which resources domestically, the real working class
Speaker 11: effort to build a life in the United States is
Speaker 11: subsumed by wars of really imperial overreach. The whole idea
Speaker 11: of empire for me was an antiquated one I didn't
Speaker 11: think add a whole lot of relevance today. But I
Speaker 11: think I and many others who may have thought in
Speaker 11: that way missed the point the realities that empires intact.
Speaker 11: I think that awareness that our efforts domestically are deeply,
Speaker 11: deeply intertwined with what's happening what we're doing elsewhere, is
Speaker 11: important and it's emergent.
Speaker 2: It's new.
Speaker 11: When I was in graduate school, you would hear people
Speaker 11: talk about how they're engaged with domestic policy, or people
Speaker 11: talk about their infests in foreign policy, and I was
Speaker 11: mostly interested in foreign policy. But today, to try to
Speaker 11: draw that differentiation is really meaningless. And again you see
Speaker 11: that in the race in New York.
Speaker 5: Mom.
Speaker 11: Donnie did run on affordability, he ran on a domestic
Speaker 11: policy program, but equally thirty eight percent I think of
Speaker 11: voters were heavily motivated by his foreign policy interests and
Speaker 11: his foreign policy perspectives, which, again from a policy point
Speaker 11: of view, he can't really impact, but nonetheless are supported
Speaker 11: by this idea that our taxes, what we do domestically
Speaker 11: is having a huge impact everywhere else in the world,
Speaker 11: and that American empire is sprawling and a challenge for
Speaker 11: people domestically as well. From a pure activist point of view,
Speaker 11: you know, I used to have a real belief in
Speaker 11: electoral politics that was shaken deeply through the DNC, through
Speaker 11: the grassroots effort to be heard uncommitted. Yeah, the uncommitted
Speaker 11: movement precisely. We'll see where things go. I mean, the
Speaker 11: truth is that, you know, the person who is just
Speaker 11: selected in Jersey is a typical I believe APAC Democrat,
Speaker 11: Mike Ryl. My perspective domestically is that we need to
Speaker 11: be aggressive, We need to be forceful in calling for
Speaker 11: a total reconstitution of Democratic Party, no half measures, and
Speaker 11: I think zern Mundani did a good job of illustrating
Speaker 11: what that could look like.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean there's always a tension in this very
Speaker 10: money captured system that we have that at certain level
Speaker 10: it doesn't really matter liberal or Republican.
Speaker 9: They are captured.
Speaker 10: But I think I think what the New York City
Speaker 10: race has demonstrated is like that can only go so far.
Speaker 10: You still need some public support, which is why of
Speaker 10: course they're going after gerrymandering and all of that. But yeah,
Speaker 10: it's an uphill battle. But I think if this democracy
Speaker 10: is to exist, we are in a better footing than
Speaker 10: we were, you know, on this discussion, I also wondering
Speaker 10: what you think of this characterization, which is that I
Speaker 10: think before this genocide, and I don't mean to create
Speaker 10: this binary, but it has been a very transformative event.
Speaker 10: Before this genocide, I think a lot of Palestinian American
Speaker 10: organizing in spaces discussed the issue of Palestine in a
Speaker 10: right spaceed approach way, so about human rights, about ending auparthide,
Speaker 10: about extending rights, and I think the framing for that
Speaker 10: has also changed. It is really a critique of settler
Speaker 10: colonialism and the legitimacy of these nation states. First of all,
Speaker 10: what do you think of that characterization on my end,
Speaker 10: but also what do you think of the tension and
Speaker 10: then that poses for the Palestinian National liberation movement that
Speaker 10: still wants a state.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 11: The thing again, the analytic frame has shifted. We've gone
Speaker 11: from a contested conversation around nineteen sixty seven, the June
Speaker 11: War when Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan, Gosta
Speaker 11: from Egypt, Jerusalem as well from Jordan, the Goal on Heights,
Speaker 11: some Syria and a small silver of land from Lebanon
Speaker 11: to nineteen forty eight. That's what we talk about now,
Speaker 11: and that's correct, and I think for many Palestinians or
Speaker 11: Palestinian Americans that has always been the starting point of
Speaker 11: the conversation. But now we have the political legitimacy to say,
Speaker 11: wait a second, this whole state was founded upon separate
Speaker 11: and unequal on Jewish supremacy on a point of view
Speaker 11: that we reject as Americans and we should reject everywhere
Speaker 11: in the world. And so I think that's the first
Speaker 11: meaningful change that I've seen when we talk about Palestine.
Speaker 11: And then of course settle colonialism is built into that analysis.
Speaker 11: Things get a little bit different when you zoom out
Speaker 11: let me just talk about domestic I think that when
Speaker 11: you talk to people on the left, the universalist argument
Speaker 11: everybody's created equal is very, very powerful and resonant, and
Speaker 11: it's the one that I believe in. But what's happening
Speaker 11: on the right as well is an America first argument,
Speaker 11: and the word protectorate comes up repeatedly. Why are we
Speaker 11: investing so much in a protectorate? Tucker Carlston powerfully, I
Speaker 11: think for his audience, and this is probably the most
Speaker 11: influential commentator in the United States to day, but powerfully,
Speaker 11: you know, said, this country has half the size, half
Speaker 11: the economy the state of Connecticut. Why have we invested
Speaker 11: so much political capital, so much money and something which
Speaker 11: is so immaterial, especially when it pays a big negative
Speaker 11: dividend in lots of different ways. So the nativist argument
Speaker 11: is meeting the universalist argument. But the core analysis around
Speaker 11: settled colonialism, around the lack of legitimacy for a supremacist state,
Speaker 11: gives rise to both of those arguments. That access to
Speaker 11: the substrate. I would say, Palestinians who want to see
Speaker 11: a Palestinian state, and how you're going back to Palestine,
Speaker 11: I don't know what that means today. I've heard perspectives
Speaker 11: that availing ourselves of statehood as a legal construct will
Speaker 11: mean that you can now access legal frameworks to pursue
Speaker 11: justice in the courts wherever they may exist. I hope
Speaker 11: that's true. Let's see what works out. I think there
Speaker 11: are people who are trying to take Israeli men dual
Speaker 11: nationals who participated in the genocide to court in France.
Speaker 11: I think by using some of the some of the
Speaker 11: laws that exists between recognized states and non states, or
Speaker 11: maybe the UK. Let's see if robber meets road there.
Speaker 11: I support those tactics, but practically, when you're talking about
Speaker 11: Palestinian liberation, I don't believe that a state which has
Speaker 11: been colonized out of existence and you kind of have
Speaker 11: to look at a map to see what I mean here.
Speaker 11: But the West Bank is thoroughly colonized, Gaza is still
Speaker 11: occupied by the Israelis and will likely be slowly ethnically
Speaker 11: cleansed over time and not rebuilt. I fail to see
Speaker 11: how a state illegal construct is going to yield real
Speaker 11: benefits for the people on the ground now in Palestine.
Speaker 10: I agree, and I think that the continuation of this
Speaker 10: framework the statehood framework that a lot of our kind
Speaker 10: of political elites in the Palestinian landscape continue to use,
Speaker 10: and a lot of these countries in the global North
Speaker 10: use also to bypass with work that actually needs to
Speaker 10: be done after a genocide.
Speaker 9: It's certainly a distraction in.
Speaker 10: My view, but it also speaks to the renewal that
Speaker 10: needs to happen within Palestinian politics and within the PLO.
Speaker 9: But that's a bigger matter.
Speaker 10: My next question was going to be on the Palsine
Speaker 10: and American diaspora. In what ways do you think the
Speaker 10: passing American diaspora is alike with people in historic Palestine,
Speaker 10: with other diasporas, and in what.
Speaker 9: Ways do you think that they're unique.
Speaker 11: That's a hard question for me to answer. I think
Speaker 11: the diaspora, in the way that I've interacted with people's
Speaker 11: is diverse. What people have in common is a common
Speaker 11: reference point, the NECA. They have a common understanding around
Speaker 11: the illegitimacy of Israel as an ethno state which takes
Speaker 11: Jewish supremacy as its point of departure. But it's a
Speaker 11: very diverse diaspora. I mean, our first palacan American in
Speaker 11: Congress is justin Amash who.
Speaker 5: Is on the right.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 9: I always forget about him.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean he had relatives who were murdered in
Speaker 11: Visa at a church in northern Vesia, which dates back
Speaker 11: to I think the eleventh century. So we're diverse diaspora.
Speaker 11: I think the palace in diaspora in the United States
Speaker 11: is integrated. It's educated. That's the passport for lots of
Speaker 11: Palestinians around the world. Is how you get out, It's
Speaker 11: how you build alive. We have a very high literacy
Speaker 11: rate in Palestine, exceeds ninety nine point five percent. But
Speaker 11: I think where the diaspora hasn't, at least in the
Speaker 11: United States, done as effective a job. And this is
Speaker 11: kind of the natural trajectory I think of diaspora communities generally.
Speaker 11: I don't know that we're as aggressive and organized as
Speaker 11: we could be. And I want to emphasize the word aggressive,
Speaker 11: the idea that we can go out and compete at
Speaker 11: all levels of government, that we can go out and
Speaker 11: assert our understanding of history backed by facts. We should
Speaker 11: be doing more of that, especially when you look kind
Speaker 11: of across the board when it comes to people who
Speaker 11: are doing well in medicine or in business, you know,
Speaker 11: where there's been a real career risk for speaking out
Speaker 11: and for being assertive. We can do more now, and
Speaker 11: we should use the leverage game through two years of
Speaker 11: genocide the most expensive access to leverage I can imagine,
Speaker 11: to push much harder politically.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 10: I'm also wondering how well you think the Palestinian organizing
Speaker 10: groups and spaces, how well integrated are they into other
Speaker 10: activist issue areas.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think this is where when I was in college,
Speaker 11: I didn't know the word intersectionality. That wasn't a concept
Speaker 11: that really was one that people thought about. You know,
Speaker 11: you would host an event and you would invite your friends,
Speaker 11: some of whom would be in the Black students group,
Speaker 11: some of whom would be in the Queer students group,
Speaker 11: and just regular left groups. But today I'd say that
Speaker 11: activists have a much more complete sense of how you
Speaker 11: almost have a social quilt, and a compression on one
Speaker 11: part of it will impact everything else that's related to it,
Speaker 11: and we're all interrelated in that way. I'd say that
Speaker 11: the most potent discussions around Palestine are coming from left
Speaker 11: organizing groups, not exactly Palestinian organizing groups. I think if
Speaker 11: I could offer gentle criticism of Palistine organizers, there's been
Speaker 11: too much and you sawvicely with uncommitted, too much effort
Speaker 11: to ingratiate yourselves to the existing power apparatus to ask
Speaker 11: for a seat at the table. When it's somebody like
Speaker 11: Zoron Mumdani again who demanded a seat at the table
Speaker 11: through an unrelenting focus on the issues, achieved access to
Speaker 11: a platform, then nobody wanted to seed. And I don't
Speaker 11: think that following the rules exactly or being friendly about
Speaker 11: accessing platforms within the democratic parties one yield a huge
Speaker 11: benefit to Palestinian Americans or people here. I'd say the
Speaker 11: most principled organizing is organizing that's going to win, and
Speaker 11: today that comes from non Palestinian groups, and I'm okay
Speaker 11: with that. I don't really think it matters if the
Speaker 11: best argument is coming from somebody whose family comes from
Speaker 11: South Asia through Uganda or somebody whose family emerges from
Speaker 11: you know, the Balata refugee camp, that doesn't really matter
Speaker 11: to me. I think just to focus on the principles
Speaker 11: is the most important thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, right right.
Speaker 10: I think we're definitely seeing more of an acceptance of that.
Speaker 10: I agree with the limitations that you referenced. I also
Speaker 10: sometimes do reflect on how matched the discussion is in
Speaker 10: the United States with the discussion in historic Palestine, and
Speaker 10: what activists can do to kind of bridge some gaps
Speaker 10: that might emerge. But of course, understanding that we do
Speaker 10: exist in a different political reality and we obviously will
Speaker 10: develop different views as a result of that.
Speaker 11: I agree, and look, I mean, nobody needs to be
Speaker 11: apologetic about inhabiting a different reality. You know, we don't
Speaker 11: need to defer to a leadership which is divided and
Speaker 11: divided in Palestine and PLO that won't talk to itself,
Speaker 11: and there are structural reasons for that, right, I mean,
Speaker 11: the Israelis and the Americans have done a very effective
Speaker 11: job in splintering palaestinine leadership. I think we need to
Speaker 11: extremely locally. There are issues that matter to my community
Speaker 11: in West Philadelphia, bigger issues across Pennsylvania that impact my life,
Speaker 11: that impact my life as a father of three little girls.
Speaker 11: So I think being a member of a community and
Speaker 11: focusing again relentlessly on the principles and the fact that
Speaker 11: we've known all along is critical to pushing the conversation
Speaker 11: on palsign forward and practically today, for me, that means
Speaker 11: an arms embargo, it means sanctions, it means a cultural boycott,
Speaker 11: and it means those things unapologetically. Again, those are principal
Speaker 11: positions that I can take as an American citizen, a
Speaker 11: citizen in a country which has underwritten genocide, has underwritten
Speaker 11: apartheid for decades.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 10: I think I agree with that analysis. As the author,
Speaker 10: which we didn't mention at the beginning, as the author
Speaker 10: one of the co authors of After Zionism with Anthony Lonstein,
Speaker 10: I'm going to pose a difficult question for you now.
Speaker 10: I'm just joking, not that you have to answer fully,
Speaker 10: but where do you think we go from here? Where
Speaker 10: do you think the pro Palestine movement goes from here?
Speaker 10: And if you can reflect in your answer on where
Speaker 10: we've stalled as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 11: So I used to believe in one state for everybody
Speaker 11: with equal rights. Today I think the writing is on
Speaker 11: the wall for the Palestinians in Palestine. The ethnic cleansing
Speaker 11: of Palestine is preceded the fact that has been utterly destroyed,
Speaker 11: utterly destroyed. There are no universities, no schools, no really
Speaker 11: functioning hospitals. The basic infrastructure required for the maintenance of
Speaker 11: life doesn't exist there anymore. That's part of why it's
Speaker 11: a genocide. We've got to take that reality into account.
Speaker 11: The Palestinians and Za the Palestinians and Palestine generally have
Speaker 11: the right to pursue life. They have a right to
Speaker 11: an education, they have a right to self actualization, and
Speaker 11: many of them, when they can, they're going to leave.
Speaker 11: That's the ethnic cleansing program, that's the idea behind the
Speaker 11: mass destruction of Palestine. The Israelis are sixty in that regard.
Speaker 11: I would say, we need to be mindful of that.
Speaker 11: We need to be aware of that. So what I
Speaker 11: think will happen ultimately is that you'll end up with
Speaker 11: some rump community of Palestinians in Palestine who are eventually
Speaker 11: when in arms embargoes enacted. And I hope it's within
Speaker 11: our lifetimes when the sanctions are enacted, when Israel is
Speaker 11: forced to become a normal country with equal rights for all,
Speaker 11: will continue to exist in that space. I don't know,
Speaker 11: you know, I can't predict, nobody can really predict what's
Speaker 11: certainty what's going to happen. But the kinds of pressure
Speaker 11: required to cause Israel to become a de radicalized normal
Speaker 11: society will take time to produce. And in the interim,
Speaker 11: the writing is on the wall for the Palacinians in Palestine,
Speaker 11: and I think that's the saddust for me part of
Speaker 11: all this. The continuity of Palacinian life and Palestine is
Speaker 11: not guaranteed. You know, the overwhelming force of the state
Speaker 11: exists in one place, and that's in Israel.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's why I when a lot of people talk
Speaker 10: positively about the developments of the past two years, of
Speaker 10: course you want to feel hope. You want to highlight
Speaker 10: how the discussion has changed here in America, how politics
Speaker 10: is moving forward. You want to have some pathway. But
Speaker 10: we never were able to prevent that genocide. Nothing we
Speaker 10: did in any avenue. All of us have, you know,
Speaker 10: different positionalities, engaged with different actors, like none of it
Speaker 10: actually stopped that, and.
Speaker 9: That is a very hard pill to swallow.
Speaker 3: I hope.
Speaker 10: I've always been hoping that at least that will allow
Speaker 10: us to get to the place of self reflection about
Speaker 10: what radical solutions look like in the aftermath of this
Speaker 10: kind of disaster.
Speaker 9: And yeah, I hope that's that's where we go from here.
Speaker 10: On my end, Yeah, thank you so much, Ahmad that
Speaker 10: this has been a really enriching discussion, and I think
Speaker 10: that the listeners will benefit from this overarching view of
Speaker 10: Ptal Palace on activism and it's intersections with everything we're
Speaker 10: seeing unfold.
Speaker 11: So thank you so much again, Thank you, Donna. It's
Speaker 11: been a huge fighter.
Speaker 4: Two weeks ago, four days before Halloween, former Fox News
Speaker 4: anchor Tucker Carlson hosted the twenty seven year old white
Speaker 4: pharmacist influencer Nick Fuentes on Tucker's popular internet show. Two
Speaker 4: weeks later, this interview has over six million views on YouTube,
Speaker 4: over half million on Rumble, and eighteen million alleged views
Speaker 4: on x the Everything app with over one hundred thousand
Speaker 4: likes and twenty thousand retweets, plus the unknown number of
Speaker 4: views from podcasting platforms like Apple or Spotify, on which
Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson's show also airs. This is it could happen here.
Speaker 4: I'm Garrison Davis. Throughout the almost entirely friendly two hour interview,
Speaker 4: Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson discussed Nick's libertarian origin story,
Speaker 4: his conversion to Trump's bombastic style of populism getting a
Speaker 4: show on the Right Side Broadcast network as a teenager
Speaker 4: after a viral college debate, how the Daily Wire initially
Speaker 4: befriended then tried to quash his early political career, and
Speaker 4: how that pushed Nick to adopt a far right adversarial
Speaker 4: stance against mainstream conservatism and the gatekeepers of the conservative establishment,
Speaker 4: which Nick identified as the quote unquote Zionist Jews like
Speaker 4: Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, and Dennis Prager. Here's Nick and Tucker.
Speaker 6: It was these the guys that were really controlling the
Speaker 6: media apparatus that seemed to me to be the biggest
Speaker 6: impediment Fox.
Speaker 2: Fox is not a Jewish business though, well.
Speaker 6: Rupert Murdoch is an ally of Nan Yahoo, so he's aligned. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and he owns the whole news corp empire, so and yeah,
Speaker 6: he's certainly a part of it.
Speaker 3: Also.
Speaker 2: I mean Dave Rubin though, does he matter?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 12: No, not really right, I mean Dave Rubin is like,
Speaker 12: I don't know if do people watch Dave Rubin?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 6: They did back then. I mean, because you got to
Speaker 6: consider they were kind of like the ascendant new media.
Speaker 6: You know, they represented the next big thing.
Speaker 12: I mean and Ben Shapiro seems irrelevant to me now now,
Speaker 12: but back then for I guess that's that's true, so
Speaker 12: maybe you one.
Speaker 3: Oh, certainly.
Speaker 4: Tucker tried to advise Fuentes to focus more of his
Speaker 4: ire on Israel's influence on American politics as a foreign
Speaker 4: policy issue and not quote unquote blood guilt based on ethnicity,
Speaker 4: while Fuentes defended the necessity of his rhetoric against what
Speaker 4: he called the quote unquote unique issue of quote unquote
Speaker 4: organized Jewry that promotes a form of identity politics, linking
Speaker 4: Israel to quote Jewishness as an ethnicity, identity, and religion unquote,
Speaker 4: which makes most culturally Jewish people incompatible with America first patriotism.
Speaker 4: This is basic dual loyalty anti Semitism, which Nick continued
Speaker 4: to outline by framing Jewish people as a historically stateless
Speaker 4: people that resist assimilation and put their own interests above
Speaker 4: those of whichever non Jewish majority country they currently reside,
Speaker 4: attention which the existence of Israel now heightens.
Speaker 6: No other country has a strong identity like that. This religious,
Speaker 6: blood and soil confiction, this history of being in the diaspora, stateless,
Speaker 6: wandering persecuted, and in particular the historic animosity between the
Speaker 6: Jewish people and the Europeans. They hate the Romans because
Speaker 6: the Romans destroyed the Temple. That's why Eric Weinstein goes
Speaker 6: to the arch of Titus and gives it the finger
Speaker 6: and takes a picture.
Speaker 2: We don't think like that.
Speaker 6: As Americans and white people, we don't think about the
Speaker 6: Roman Empire in two thousand years ago.
Speaker 4: They do, right, Americans and Christians would never think about
Speaker 4: Check's notes, the Roman Empire or the events of two
Speaker 4: thousand years ago. Sure, Nick, Obviously, to many people listening
Speaker 4: to this show, Fuentes has been a known anti Semitic
Speaker 4: stream control for nearly ten years, and Tucker himself knows this.
Speaker 4: The main pushback Tucker gave Nick was on why Nick
Speaker 4: attacked other figures on the far right who were possible
Speaker 4: allies of the America First movement and America First foreign policy,
Speaker 4: like Marjorie Taylor Green, jd Vance, Joe Kent, and Tucker himself.
Speaker 2: Why attack them?
Speaker 6: Well, in short, they attacked me first. Yeah, but like
Speaker 6: who cares? Well, let's take Joe camp I mean, you
Speaker 6: attacked me constantly.
Speaker 4: Tucker also advocated framing that does not allow it. He
Speaker 4: believes to be popular America first ideas like opposition to
Speaker 4: foreign influence and dual citizenship to get subverted by leaning
Speaker 4: into accusations of hate and racial prejudice, which during the interview,
Speaker 4: Fuentes nominally agreed with some of them.
Speaker 12: I'm sorry to be a conspiracy nut. I really try
Speaker 12: not to be a conspiracy because it's embarrassing, you know.
Speaker 12: But after January sixth, then just finding out the number
Speaker 12: of FBI personnel in the crowd, it's like, and I've
Speaker 12: just seen this. David Duke is a great example. Some
Speaker 12: of these are the Charlottesville rally, had a bunch of
Speaker 12: Feds there being like we're white supremacist, we hate the blacks,
Speaker 12: the Edward whatever.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: It's like, that's not real, Like there is some of
Speaker 6: that going on, don't you think I think that. I
Speaker 6: think that there's a lot of sincere people. Well, for sure,
Speaker 6: I completely agree, you know, and they're just non skulls.
Speaker 4: For some reason, Nick neglected to mention that he in
Speaker 4: fact was at Charlottesville, and the backlash to the Unite
Speaker 4: the Right rally forced him to drop out of college
Speaker 4: and propelled his streaming career. Throughout this whole interview, it
Speaker 4: mostly felt like Tucker was trying to act as a
Speaker 4: mentor figure to Fuentes, advising him to let go of
Speaker 4: past beefs and providing a sort of clean slate to
Speaker 4: allow Nick to present his political views in a more
Speaker 4: streamlined manner as simply anti Israel as an extension of America. First,
Speaker 4: during the interview, Tucker himself explained his motives for inviting
Speaker 4: Fuentes on the show.
Speaker 12: Do you hope that people who want to learn what's
Speaker 12: happening and who you are will watch the whole thing?
Speaker 12: It's probably naive, hope that it won't be reduced to
Speaker 12: whatever you're saying, something naughty and me laughing and see
Speaker 12: they're both Nazis. I mean, you know that's going to happen,
Speaker 12: of course, but I'm willing to take that risk because
Speaker 12: I just think it's important to know. You're clearly ascendant.
Speaker 12: You're enormously talented, and more talent than I am for
Speaker 12: sure as a talker. So and they've you know, there
Speaker 12: have been a lot of attempts to silence here and
Speaker 12: it hasn't worked. So my calculation obviously be as blun
Speaker 12: as I can be. Is like, I don't want to
Speaker 12: have fun tests on it, be like you, but you're
Speaker 12: a Nazi, just like fint does. Okay, but then I'm like,
Speaker 12: I don't think fetest is going away. Ben Shapiro tried
Speaker 12: to like strangle him in the crib in college, and
Speaker 12: now he's bigger than ever, so it probably would just
Speaker 12: be worth hearing what Nick Fuinntes thinks. I just want
Speaker 12: to be transparent about my motives here, and I.
Speaker 4: Think Tucker is right in calling Funtes ascendant. Talk more
Speaker 4: about that at the end of this episode. For the
Speaker 4: last thirty minutes of this interview, the two discussed pornography,
Speaker 4: alcohol and drugs as ruining America's young men through reality distortion,
Speaker 4: and I had a whole segment on Nick fuent As
Speaker 4: explaining to a confused Tucker Carlson the concept of internet pornography,
Speaker 4: which unfortunately I had to cut for time. But if
Speaker 4: there's enough demand for this on blue Sky or Reddit,
Speaker 4: maybe I can make a bonus episode next week. Rather
Speaker 4: than focusing on the substance of this interview in Tucker's motivation,
Speaker 4: a lot of mainstream reporting has just highlighted a few
Speaker 4: controversial sound bites like an offhand, semitrual comment about how
Speaker 4: Fuentez admires Stalin. But this interview did send shockwaves through
Speaker 4: the American conservative ecosystem, of which Fuentez was always held
Speaker 4: at a very long arms length away. In the immediate
Speaker 4: wake of the interview, references to Tucker were curiously removed
Speaker 4: from the Heritage Foundation's donor page in partnership with the
Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson Network. On October thirtieth, Heritage President Kevin Roberts
Speaker 4: released a video defending Tucker, captioned, there has been speculation
Speaker 4: that Heritage is distancing itself from Tucker Carlson over the
Speaker 4: past twenty four hours. I want to put that to
Speaker 4: rest right now.
Speaker 13: Conservatives should feel no obligation to reflexively support any foreign government,
Speaker 13: no matter how loud the pressure becomes from the globalist
Speaker 13: class or from their mouthpieces in Washington. The Heritage Foundation
Speaker 13: didn't become the intellectual backbone of the conservative movement by
Speaker 13: canceling our own people or policing the consciences of Christians,
Speaker 13: and we won't start doing that now. We will always
Speaker 13: defend our friends against the slander of bad actors who
Speaker 13: serve someone else's agenda. That includes Tucker Carlson, who remains
Speaker 13: and as I have said before, always will be a
Speaker 13: close friend of the Heritage Foundation. The venomous coalition attacking
Speaker 13: him or sewing division, their attempt to cancel him will fail.
Speaker 13: Most importantly, the American people expect us to be focusing
Speaker 13: on our political adversaries on the left, not attacking our
Speaker 13: friends on the right. I disagree with and even a
Speaker 13: poor things that Nick Fuintes says, but canceling him is
Speaker 13: not the answer either. When we disagree with the person's
Speaker 13: thoughts and opinions, we challenge those ideas and debate. And
Speaker 13: we have seen success in this approach as we continue
Speaker 13: to dismantle the vile ideas of the left.
Speaker 4: Roberts primarily framed this as an issue of cancelation and
Speaker 4: included some pretty sketchy lines in that video. Roberts also
Speaker 4: said that Heritage doesn't quote take direction from members or donors.
Speaker 4: This video was polarizing, to say the least. Nick Fuentes fans,
Speaker 4: who are called gropers and America First nationalists rejoiced and
Speaker 4: claimed victory, while many GOP establishment figures, Jewish Republicans, and
Speaker 4: many Heritage employees were left bamboozled. The New York Post
Speaker 4: published internal Heritage group chats with staff members, writing that
Speaker 4: this was quote the most embarrassed I've ever been to
Speaker 4: be a Heritage employee. It's not close end quote. I'm
Speaker 4: disgusted by this and don't understand how this premeditated and
Speaker 4: orchestrated response could come out of one of the biggest
Speaker 4: think tanks in the world. Unquote more texts read quote
Speaker 4: saying we can't cancel someone is safe space wokeism and
Speaker 4: quote if we are labeled on the same side as
Speaker 4: Nick Fuentez, then we deserve to lose. Talking with some
Speaker 4: of the interns, I think that there is a growing
Speaker 4: number of them who actually agree with Fuentez's views. Now
Speaker 4: beyond employee dissent, sources close to Heritage told The New
Speaker 4: York Post that the think tank has been quote unquote
Speaker 4: hemorrhaging Evangelical, Christian and Jewish donors. David Bernstein, the author
Speaker 4: of Woke Anti Semitism and a former member of the
Speaker 4: task force a Heritage called Project Ester, a National Strategy
Speaker 4: to combat anti Semitism, told The New York Post on
Speaker 4: November three that he had resigned from his position over
Speaker 4: Kevin Roberts's remarks citing the language of a venomous coalition
Speaker 4: aligned against Tucker. To quote Jewish Insider quote, Rabbi Yakov Mencken,
Speaker 4: executive vice president of the Coalition for Jewish Values, told
Speaker 4: Jewish Insider that Robert's message quote was the most tone
Speaker 4: deaf in both its content and timing that I've ever
Speaker 4: heard from major Washington organization on any political side. On quote,
Speaker 4: Menkin resigned from Heritage's Protrogester, the group's anti Semitism initiative,
Speaker 4: last week, sponds to Robert's video message defending Carlson. Along
Speaker 4: with Menken and Polition for Jewish Voices, several other groups
Speaker 4: have also publicly disaffiliated from Heritage's anti Semitism task force,
Speaker 4: including the National Jewish Advocacy Center, the Zionist Organization of America,
Speaker 4: and the Young Jewish Conservatives. On Halloween, Heritage president Kevin
Speaker 4: Roberts made a post summarizing a small sampling of Fuentes's
Speaker 4: most racist, anti Semitic, and pro Hitler views and said quote,
Speaker 4: our task is to confront and challenge those poisonous ideas
Speaker 4: at every turn to prevent them from taking America to
Speaker 4: a very dark place. Join us not to cancel, but
Speaker 4: to guide, challenge, and strengthen the conversation, and be confident
Speaker 4: as I am, that our best ideas at the heart
Speaker 4: of Western civilization will prevail. For those, especially young men,
Speaker 4: who are enticed by Fuentes and his acolytes online, there
Speaker 4: is a better way way. Roberts has repeatedly said that
Speaker 4: attempting to cancel Fwenttes would only grow his audience, as
Speaker 4: opposed to whatever Roberts is doing by playing foot seaes
Speaker 4: with Tucker and Fuentes, resulting in multiple news stories a
Speaker 4: day name dropping Fwenttes and massively raising his public profile.
Speaker 13: It would not invite him to a heritage event or
Speaker 13: to my show. But the point is we have to
Speaker 13: find other avenues to engage the ridiculous ideas that he's saying,
Speaker 13: rather than, as many people have called for online, that
Speaker 13: you can just shun him, that you can just ignore him,
Speaker 13: and that the problem goes away. My motivation for posting
Speaker 13: that video yesterday, especially looking ahead towards twenty twenty six
Speaker 13: and twenty twenty eight, is that we have to engage
Speaker 13: those issues if we want to build a movement. I
Speaker 13: understand that, particularly for our Jewish friends who ought to
Speaker 13: be upset about Twintest's comments about anti Semitism, that he's
Speaker 13: just anathema.
Speaker 3: I agree with that as well.
Speaker 13: But if we're going to actually correct the scourge of
Speaker 13: anti Semitism, we've got to go convince those unfortunately millions
Speaker 13: of young men who find that appealing. I do believe
Speaker 13: that they're convincible. I believe that people like you, hopefully
Speaker 13: people like us at Heritage, and even people like Tucker
Speaker 13: might be able to play a role in that.
Speaker 4: Following backlash to Kevin Roberts's initial statement, Roberts chief of
Speaker 4: staff Ryan Neuhause resigned from Heritage after being reassigned as
Speaker 4: a senior advisor in housing policy, a position sources told
Speaker 4: New York Post was the quote unquote Siberia of Heritage.
Speaker 4: Before resigning, Newhouse reposted messages defending Robert's video, including a
Speaker 4: post advocating that quote unquote virtue signaling employees at the
Speaker 4: Heritage Foundation should resign if they're so outraged by Robert's statement.
Speaker 4: During Halloween weekend, lawyer Mark Goldfetter resigned from the Heritage
Speaker 4: affiliated National Task Force to Combat Anti Semitism, writing on
Speaker 4: X the Everything app I cannot serve under someone who
Speaker 4: thinks Nazis are worth debating. On November one, Princeton University
Speaker 4: professor Robert P. George, member of the Heritage Board of Trustees,
Speaker 4: who allegedly has been attempting to oust Roberts as the
Speaker 4: head of the foundation. In the wake of this controversy,
Speaker 4: posted on x the Everything app quote American conservatism today
Speaker 4: faces a challenge. That challenge comes from those who reject
Speaker 4: our commitment to inherent an equal human dignity. They are
Speaker 4: seeking acceptance in the conservative movement and its institutions, and
Speaker 4: they do so with the ultimate objective of transforming them
Speaker 4: by undermining that commitment. I cannot accept the idea that
Speaker 4: we have no enemies to the right. The white supremacists,
Speaker 4: anti semites, the eugenicists, bigots must not be welcome into
Speaker 4: our movement or treated as normal or acceptable.
Speaker 3: Unquote. You sure about that, Robert P.
Speaker 4: George, This Conservative commitment to inherent and equal human.
Speaker 3: Dignity, you share about this? You sure about that?
Speaker 4: Surely the American Conservatives aren't restricting people's health care and
Speaker 4: pushing them off food stamps, and kidnapping and uprooting families
Speaker 4: and sending them to far off countries. Seems like all
Speaker 4: those things would breach this commitment to inherent andy equal
Speaker 4: human dignity. I never thought the leopards would eat my face,
Speaker 4: sobs Heritage Board of Trustees member who voted for the
Speaker 4: leopards eating people's faces party, We'll be right back after
Speaker 4: these ads. The conservative in fighting intensified went On November three,
Speaker 4: Monday morning, Ben Shapiro released a forty minute video captioned,
Speaker 4: no to the gropers, No to cowards like a Tucker
Speaker 4: Carlson who normalized their trash, No to those who championed them,
Speaker 4: noted demoralization, note a bigger tree and anti meritocratic horseshit.
Speaker 4: No to anti Americanism.
Speaker 14: No, that fragmentation is being caused purposefully by a splinter
Speaker 14: faction of people led by a young man named Nick Flintes.
Speaker 14: They call themselves the Groupers. They are white supremacists. They
Speaker 14: hate women, Jews, Hindus, many types of Christians, brown, people
Speaker 14: of a wide variety of backgrounds, Blacks, America's foreign policy,
Speaker 14: and America's constitution. They admire Hitler and Stalin, and that
Speaker 14: splinter faction is now being facilitated and normalized within the
Speaker 14: mainstream Republican Party. The main agent in that normalization is
Speaker 14: Tucker Carlson, who is an intellectual coward, a dishonest interlocutor,
Speaker 14: and a terrible friend. And Tucker Carlson last week was aided,
Speaker 14: a betted, celebrated for normalizing Nazism within the Republican Party
Speaker 14: by the mainstay organization of the traditional right, the Heritage Foundation.
Speaker 4: Shapiro then had to preface his comments by saying, quote,
Speaker 4: this is not about free speech or cancellation end quote.
Speaker 4: Criticisms of bad speech is in fact just a form
Speaker 4: of free speechuote and went on this lengthy diet tribe
Speaker 4: to explain how what he's doing isn't cancelation, which Ben
Speaker 4: defined as banning people from the social media and publishing platforms.
Speaker 4: What would be more accurately described as deplatforming, as opposed
Speaker 4: to like social cancelation, which is not something that Ben
Speaker 4: is calling for. That is not calling for deplatforming.
Speaker 14: It is not cancelation to draw moral lines between viewpoints.
Speaker 14: In fact, we used to call that one of the
Speaker 14: key aspects of conservatism. It is not cancelation to refuse
Speaker 14: to signal boost Hitler supporters like Nick Flentes. It is
Speaker 14: not cancelation to criticize Tucker Carlson for rhetorically fluffing Nick
Speaker 14: Flentes and other anti American crackpots. It's not cancelation if
Speaker 14: you urge others to stop promoting those who rhetorically fluff
Speaker 14: Nazi apologists. Those are all elements of free speech, and
Speaker 14: anyone who says differently is lying to you, and lying
Speaker 14: for the most cynical reasons to misdirect from their own
Speaker 14: defense of those Nazi apologists and their promoters. The issue
Speaker 14: here isn't that Tucker Carlson had Nick Flints on his
Speaker 14: show last week. He has ever read to do that.
Speaker 14: Of course, The issue here is that Tucker Carlson decided
Speaker 14: to normalize and fluff Nick Flantes, and that the Heritage
Speaker 14: Foundation then decided to robustly defend that performance. Those who
Speaker 14: criticize both Tucker and Heritage aren't canceling. They are quite
Speaker 14: properly drawing a moral line. Now, from Tucker Carlson's interview,
Speaker 14: you might have gathered that Flintes has some borderline views
Speaker 14: on race, a peculiar obsession with what he calls organized jeury,
Speaker 14: and a rather sad relationship with the female sex. But
Speaker 14: probably you, Kim weigh thinking that for the most part,
Speaker 14: Flintes lives on the radical edge of normality. You think
Speaker 14: that if you watch the interview. Because Tucker Carlson decided
Speaker 14: that it was important not only to host Flintes, but
Speaker 14: to smooth over his views, water them down, and make
Speaker 14: them far more palatable to a normal audience.
Speaker 4: Ben proceeded to do a ten minute Nick Fuentes clip show,
Speaker 4: playing a slick collection of some of the most defensive
Speaker 4: things Nick has said to camera, and then blamed the
Speaker 4: Left for creating the conditions that let this hatred emerge,
Speaker 4: framing Fuentes as the dialectical inverse of the hyper woke,
Speaker 4: id pole Left.
Speaker 14: And there's no doubt that Nick fuant Has has a
Speaker 14: lot of play these days. That's because the Left, by
Speaker 14: moving into a politics of anti white, anti Christian, anti
Speaker 14: male identitarianism, created its bizarro mirror image, a white, pseudo
Speaker 14: Christian in cell identitarian movement dedicated to destroying the institutions
Speaker 14: of this country and replacing Americanism with something else. Nick
Speaker 14: Flint's philosophy is not fully formed. It's an incoherent stew
Speaker 14: of malignity.
Speaker 4: The left did not create Nick Fuentes. He is the
Speaker 4: direct product of the right wing content ecosystem that Shapiro
Speaker 4: himself trailblazed. It's Ben Shapiro, but taken even further with
Speaker 4: post ironic gen Z brainwrot. Even if Fuentes himself has
Speaker 4: been banned from many of the big tent conservative events,
Speaker 4: his idea is still festered, spread under the radar, and
Speaker 4: influenced the further radicalization of other right wing commentators so
Speaker 4: that they could better compete with Fuentes. Tucker himself was
Speaker 4: a part of this. The twenty nineteen quote unquote Groper War,
Speaker 4: in which Nick Fuentes deployed his fans to disrupt turning
Speaker 4: Point usa Q and A events with leading questions, pressured
Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk to adopt viewpoints further and further to the right,
Speaker 4: specifically on race and immigration and now the White Great
Speaker 4: replacement is basically a mainstream conservative viewpoint, and Fuentes played
Speaker 4: a huge part in that. This is in fact your problem, Ben.
Speaker 4: For the rest of this forty minute video, Shapiro directed
Speaker 4: his attention to Tucker Carlson, criticizing his defense of Russia
Speaker 4: and multi polar views. Tucker's pro dictator comments, populist criticism
Speaker 4: of Trump, and sort of dodgy anti Israel statements. Shapiro
Speaker 4: highlighted comments Tucker made during the Fuentez interview where he
Speaker 4: lampooned high profile Republicans and neocons who have been quote
Speaker 4: unquote seized by the pro Israel quote unquote brain virus,
Speaker 4: with Tucker claiming that he dislikes Christian Zionists quote more
Speaker 4: than anybody unquote because it's Christian heresy. Shapiro described the
Speaker 4: function of Tucker's current online platform as a safe space
Speaker 4: to bring on conspiracy theorists, fringe figures, alternative historians, and
Speaker 4: those just outside the overt window to then quote unquote
Speaker 4: gloss them. As Shapiro says, it's not about building a
Speaker 4: radicalization pipeline out of the mainstream, but bringing the actual
Speaker 4: radical ideas to the mainstream.
Speaker 14: Tucker Carlson act as an ideological launderer for other people's evils.
Speaker 14: Tucker Carlson says many inflammatory things, always buying back just
Speaker 14: enough of it to appear as though he's not saying
Speaker 14: what he's clearly saying. He's a master of gas lighting.
Speaker 14: Tucker Carlson, for example, would never say out loud what
Speaker 14: Nick Flintes does. He wouldn't say the things many of
Speaker 14: his guests say, and so instead he acts as an
Speaker 14: ideological launderer. He takes other people's hideous ideas, he softens them,
Speaker 14: he treats them with love and care, and then he
Speaker 14: provides them with a massive signal boost. He isn't merely
Speaker 14: talking to people in good faith, of course, He's promoting
Speaker 14: certain people and ideas and attacking others. This is how
Speaker 14: Tucker Carlson's ideological laundering works. You bring your dirty, ugly
Speaker 14: ideologies to Tucker Carlson's rhetorical car wash. He mixes it
Speaker 14: with some of the fstigial respect Americans have for him
Speaker 14: from his Fox News days, and voila, hideous ideas suddenly
Speaker 14: become mainstream. And then, of course Tucker denies he said
Speaker 14: anything controversial at all. He was just asking questions, He
Speaker 14: was just interviewing people. You don't want him to cancel people,
Speaker 14: do you.
Speaker 4: Ben continued to complain about Tucker platforming Candace Owentz and
Speaker 4: her increasingly anti Semitic conspiracy theorists. Except remember it was
Speaker 4: your company that gave Candace a huge, huge platform after
Speaker 4: she left turning point end Prager you is she also
Speaker 4: a consequence of the woke left, like Fuentes is Shapiro.
Speaker 4: The call is coming from inside your own company to
Speaker 4: further demonstrate how much of this stuff is downstream from Shapiro.
Speaker 4: It's actually because of Candace that Fuentes even went on
Speaker 4: Tucker's show at all. Candace had Fuentes on her show
Speaker 4: a few months prior, and when she went on Tucker's show,
Speaker 4: she told him how great Fuentes is and argued in
Speaker 4: his defense. As for Heritage, Ben acknowledged his long standing
Speaker 4: positive relationship with the Heritage Foundation, working with him since
Speaker 4: he was just seventeen years old, and recently had Kevin
Speaker 4: Roberts on his show to promote Roberts's latest book.
Speaker 14: Which is why what Kevin Roberts did last week is
Speaker 14: tragic and awful. He put out a statement the Heritage
Speaker 14: Foundation didn't just stand by Tucker Carlson. Kevin instead said
Speaker 14: openly and repeat that Tucker Carlson can do nothing ever
Speaker 14: that will sever his relationship with the conservative movement. He
Speaker 14: said that after an in defense of Tucker's glossing of
Speaker 14: Hitler defender Nick Flentes, and he added that only members
Speaker 14: of the globalist class direct quote a venomous coalition direct
Speaker 14: quote subject to the dictates of someone else's agenda direct quote,
Speaker 14: oppose Heritage's ongoing relationship with Tucker Carlson, which means that,
Speaker 14: according to Kevin Roberts, apparently anyone opposing the ongoing mainstreaming
Speaker 14: of Tucker Carlson is acting on behalf of a foreign power.
Speaker 14: Kevin's statement is a betrayal of the Heritage Foundation's history
Speaker 14: and principles, which is presumably by both Tucker Carlson and
Speaker 14: Nick Foin, says loved It.
Speaker 4: Shapiro still expressed the need for an organization like Heritage
Speaker 4: that focuses on ideas to over personal loyalty to grifters,
Speaker 4: and expressed hope that Heritage could recover from this controversy
Speaker 4: and speak out against the quote unquote moral rot that
Speaker 4: threatens our future. But if no, Conservatives may need to
Speaker 4: look for leadership elsewhere. And the cause of this moral
Speaker 4: rot political horseshoe theory that is destroying both parties, with
Speaker 4: the GOP being eaten by radicals.
Speaker 14: Like the Democratic Party, the Republican Party is being eaten
Speaker 14: by its radicals. Many in the political class are too
Speaker 14: cowardly to stand up. Apparently they're willing to play footsie
Speaker 14: with Grouper's and hug Tucker Carlson out of fear of
Speaker 14: somehow losing support. They've been bamboozled by the lies of
Speaker 14: the ex algorithm and the TikTok metrics. The left followed
Speaker 14: its radicals to electoral hell. Apparently many on the right
Speaker 14: wish to do the same. Forget the morality, then, for
Speaker 14: just a moment, let's be pragmatic. Here is the thing.
Speaker 14: Americans hate Nick Flents' philosophy. They think it's trash. Republicans,
Speaker 14: by the polling, think it's trash. Independence think it's trash.
Speaker 14: Democrats think it's trash. And here's the other thing. Americans
Speaker 14: hate Tucker Carlson's wandered anti americanism. Republicans think it's trash,
Speaker 14: Independents think it's trash, Democrats think it trash. Americans are
Speaker 14: not pro segregation, pro rape, anti woman, pro child marriage,
Speaker 14: anti black, anti Jew, anti Indian, anti Latino, anti constitution,
Speaker 14: pro hitler nut jobs like Nickquantas.
Speaker 4: You might want to tell that to I don't know,
Speaker 4: Stephen Miller, Ben and like maybe half your employees Here's
Speaker 4: Matt Walsh's own description for his most recent Daily Wire
Speaker 4: podcast episode, quote, Smali tribal conflict has made its way
Speaker 4: into multiple American states. A man is arrested for shouting
Speaker 4: f the Jews at Dave Portnoy. Meanwhile, ANTIFO riots with
Speaker 4: no consequence. White liberal radio host kisses Jasmine Crockett's feet, Ben,
Speaker 4: the call is coming from inside the Daily Wire House.
Speaker 14: If Republicans decide to cower before the likes of neo
Speaker 14: Nazis and their propagandizers, they deserve to lose, and they
Speaker 14: will lose. Neo Nazi and they're propagandizers are not Republicans.
Speaker 14: They're not America first, they're not Maga. They sure as
Speaker 14: hell aren't conservative. These people aren't to my right, They're
Speaker 14: not attached in any way to the fundamental principles of conservatism.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Ben, but they are. They are in the
Speaker 4: Mega White House, they are on TV, on Fox News.
Speaker 4: They're getting more views than you are on TikTok and
Speaker 4: fucking rumble. Many have either worked for you or still
Speaker 4: work for you, and you've been completely fine with all
Speaker 4: of that as long as they've been sufficiently pro Israel.
Speaker 4: Here's a Ben Shapiro tweet from September seventeenth, twenty fifteen,
Speaker 4: and Culture tweets read Jews awful, nonsensical, and Culture is
Speaker 4: also super pro Israel and has always been so I
Speaker 4: won't lose sleep. I never thought the leopards would eat
Speaker 4: my face, sobs conservative podcaster who voted for the leopards
Speaker 4: eating people's faces party. The same day, Shapiro released this
Speaker 4: forty minute video, Matt Walsh posted quote, Hat Buchanan didn't
Speaker 4: just have good ideas, he was right about almost everything.
Speaker 4: He's the most vindicated political figure of our lifetime.
Speaker 3: Unquote.
Speaker 4: If you want a fun, little ten minute side quest,
Speaker 4: google Hat Buchanan, Nazi, Hat Buchanan, anti Semitism. Every few months,
Speaker 4: these right wing ghouls get a harsh reminder of the
Speaker 4: world that they have conjured into being. Remember the h
Speaker 4: one B Visa debacle earlier this year, with Elon Musk
Speaker 4: and Ramaswami upset that all of their racist fans don't
Speaker 4: want to bring in immigrant workers after Elon funded a
Speaker 4: campaign about how immigrants are stealing Americans jobs. As writer
Speaker 4: John Gans put it, quote, the Geopie civil War is
Speaker 4: between the vanilla fascists and the National Socialists unquote. At
Speaker 4: the Republican You Wish Coalition fortieth anniversary summit, Congressman Randy
Speaker 4: Fine proudly announced that he canceled an upcoming event with Heritage.
Speaker 15: I was supposed to do an event with Heritage next week,
Speaker 15: I think on Wednesday.
Speaker 3: They don't know what I'm about to tell you. Right now,
Speaker 3: we're canceling it.
Speaker 15: They will have no future in my office, and I
Speaker 15: will be calling on all of my colleagues on the
Speaker 15: Republican side to do the same. If those who support
Speaker 15: Tucker Carlson want to see a venomous coalition.
Speaker 3: All they need to do is go look in the mirror.
Speaker 4: During that same speech, he boasted about.
Speaker 15: This, I've called for Zilron Mndami to be deported. The
Speaker 15: only thing I want to see him running for is
Speaker 15: his gate at JFK on the deportation flight to Uganda.
Speaker 4: First they came for the communists, Randy. I never thought
Speaker 4: the leopards would eat my face, sobs Florida congressman with
Speaker 4: Twitter pronouns listed as Hebrew slash hammer, who's a member
Speaker 4: of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party. During the opening
Speaker 4: to the Republican Jewish Coalition event. Ted Cruz addressed this
Speaker 4: moment of fracture within the establishment right as a quote
Speaker 4: unquote time of choosing, and said that in the past
Speaker 4: six months he's quote seen more anti Semitism on the
Speaker 4: right than I had in my entire life. This is
Speaker 4: a poison, and I believe we are facing an existential
Speaker 4: crisis in our party and our country unquote. Cruz later
Speaker 4: shared a Free Press article on his comments. The CEO
Speaker 4: of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Matt Brooks, pulled Jewish Insider
Speaker 4: that he is quote appalled, offended, and disgusted that Kevin
Speaker 4: Roberts in Heritage would stand with Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes,
Speaker 4: that there would be a quotquote reassessment of our relationship
Speaker 4: with Heritage in light of this, unquote. On November third,
Speaker 4: Missouri Senator and J six's supporter Josh Hawley denounced Fuentes's
Speaker 4: rhetoric as anti Semitic, telling Jewish Insider quote, that's not
Speaker 4: who we are as Republicans, as conservatives. The question for
Speaker 4: us as conservatives is are those views going to define
Speaker 4: who we are? I think we need to say no.
Speaker 4: As a conservative, but also as a Christian, there is
Speaker 4: no place for anti Semitic hatred, tropes, any of that stuff.
Speaker 4: Do we really want to be a part of what
Speaker 4: we've seen happen on college campuses?
Speaker 3: Unquote.
Speaker 4: Senator James Langford of Oklahoma, the co chair of the
Speaker 4: Senate Anti Semitism Task Force, told a Jewish Insider that
Speaker 4: he was to quote a little surprised that Heritage jumped
Speaker 4: out in support of Carlson and Nickfuentes to say, hey,
Speaker 4: we want them in our camp after the statements that
Speaker 4: were made. Heritage could have just sat back and not
Speaker 4: said anything, but instead they chose to jump out on
Speaker 4: their side.
Speaker 3: I don't get that.
Speaker 5: Unquote.
Speaker 4: Like Ben Shapiro and Josh Holly, James Langford related this
Speaker 4: to a perceived by partisan crisis. Quote, the left has
Speaker 4: seen an implosion of their party based on anti Semitism
Speaker 4: rising in their party. I don't want to see the
Speaker 4: same thing happen on the right. What I've tried to
Speaker 4: be very clear on is that the new right is
Speaker 4: now quoting an old wrong unquote. Senator Rick Scott of
Speaker 4: Florida basically said the same thing. Quote the Democrat Party,
Speaker 4: we already have a party that's for anti Semitism and
Speaker 4: is against Israel. The Republican Party is going to stand
Speaker 4: for Israel and we're going to stand against anti Semitism.
Speaker 4: I don't think there's any question, unquote, as if the
Speaker 4: Democrat Party is against Israel. And it's astonishing to watch
Speaker 4: all of these senators cope with the results of years
Speaker 4: of watering down akas and anti Semitism to simply reflect
Speaker 4: any criticism of Israel as they're now facing of massive
Speaker 4: resurgence of genuine anti semitism from known anti Semitic actors
Speaker 4: on the right. Turns out it's way easier to police
Speaker 4: campus anti genocide protests than deal with the anti semitism
Speaker 4: spread on the massive platforms of Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson.
Speaker 4: But not all senators are worried. Lindsey Graham, while speaking
Speaker 4: at the Republican Jewish Coalition, was less worried about Tucker
Speaker 4: Fuentes and the future of the party.
Speaker 7: So I just want to say I feel good about
Speaker 7: the Republican Party. I feel good about where we're going
Speaker 7: as a nation. We're killing all the right people, and
Speaker 7: we're cutting your taxes. Trump is my favorite president. We've
Speaker 7: run out of bombs. We didn't run out of bombs
Speaker 7: in World War Two.
Speaker 3: So to those who worry about.
Speaker 7: These stupid interviews and far off places, don't worry. The
Speaker 7: Republican Party has figured it out.
Speaker 5: When it comes to Israel.
Speaker 4: We're killing all the right people here at the Leopards
Speaker 4: eating people's faces party. Surely the leopards will never eat
Speaker 4: my or my friend's faces. On the night of November three,
Speaker 4: Heritage president Kevin Roberts give a speech at Hillsdale College
Speaker 4: on anti Semitism and cancel culture. He first talked for
Speaker 4: two minutes about why he and Heritage will continue to
Speaker 4: oppose cancelation and the importance of loyalty toward friends, and
Speaker 4: defend it his previous statement by reiterating that if you
Speaker 4: have a problem with someone's quote content, issues, or ideas,
Speaker 4: then by all means go debate them unquote. But then
Speaker 4: he admitted that his mistake, which was made quote unquote
Speaker 4: with the best intentions, was focusing on the legitimate pro
Speaker 4: problem of cancelation over other problems like anti Semitism. The
Speaker 4: Roberts then immediately justified his rhetoric as an attempt to
Speaker 4: reach out to the quote unquote several million young men
Speaker 4: on the quote unquote far fringes of the right who
Speaker 4: are increasingly anti Semitic, and.
Speaker 13: Our motivation at Heritage for making that statement was to
Speaker 13: begin appealing even more than we have to those largely
Speaker 13: disaffected young men who are looking for belonging and identity
Speaker 13: by following the wrong people.
Speaker 4: This pseudo apology continues to frame this primarily as an
Speaker 4: issue of cancelation. Who is asking to cancel Tucker? Roberts
Speaker 4: acts as if there is nothing in between a lifelong
Speaker 4: endorsement and total cancelation. After Robert's comments at Hillsdale College,
Speaker 4: another member of the Heritage Anti Semitism Task Force, Attorney
Speaker 4: Ian Spear, announced that he was leaving Hairge and Post
Speaker 4: in a statement calling Robert's Hillsdale College speech a quote
Speaker 4: strategic non apology that doubles down on loyalty to Tucker. Carlson,
Speaker 4: muses about welcoming gropers and the groper curious into the movement,
Speaker 4: and continues to gaslight everyone about cancelation when that clearly
Speaker 4: isn't the issue. That same day, Tuesday, November fourth, Chris Demuth,
Speaker 4: a Heritage Distinguished Fellow, also confirmed his resignation, and an
Speaker 4: email leaped from the co chairs of the Heritage affiliated
Speaker 4: National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism sent to task Force
Speaker 4: members with a list of demands the Heritage President Kevin
Speaker 4: Roberts demands including that he delete his initial video, apologize
Speaker 4: to Jews and Christians who quote believe that Israel has
Speaker 4: a special role to play both biblically and politically unquote,
Speaker 4: a demand to condemn but not cancel Tucker Carlson's anti
Speaker 4: Semitic content and statements, and host Shabbat dinners for the
Speaker 4: Heritage interns and junior staff. To quote directly from this
Speaker 4: leaked email addressing Roberts quote, you pointed out repeatedly that
Speaker 4: we face a challenge in reaching disenfranchised young men who
Speaker 4: are caught in the spells of Nick Fuentes and others.
Speaker 4: To address this issue, specifically, we recommend hiring a visiting fellow,
Speaker 4: one who shares mainstream conservative views on Israel, Jews, and
Speaker 4: Christian Zionists, who would help identify strategies and tools to
Speaker 4: win gen Z and beyond. It is clear that there
Speaker 4: is an internal battle within the conservative movement over who
Speaker 4: is to be included. The division between no Enemy to
Speaker 4: the right versus a moral conservatism demands our attention a
Speaker 4: conference that provides some guidelines to the movement on how
Speaker 4: to best keep unity without needing to include the worst
Speaker 4: among us unquote. Two days later, the National Task Force
Speaker 4: decided to break ties with the Heritage Foundation, writing in
Speaker 4: an email that it was quote important for us to
Speaker 4: continue the work of the Task Force outside the Heritage
Speaker 4: Foundation for a season, writing at this whole incident quote
Speaker 4: exposed a serious problem within the conservative movement.
Speaker 3: It's been like this for a long time.
Speaker 4: They've just been so focused on campus activists protesting the
Speaker 4: Palestinian genocide that they've missed the festering anti semitism spreading
Speaker 4: across the right.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 4: The National task Force to Combat Anti Semitism will also
Speaker 4: now expand our work to fight the rising scourge of
Speaker 4: anti Semitism on the right, beyond our previous work combating
Speaker 4: the pro Hamas movement on the left.
Speaker 2: Quote.
Speaker 4: On November eighteenth, the Task Force will be hosting a
Speaker 4: conference in Washington on quote exposing and countering extremism and
Speaker 4: antisemitism on the right, in partnership with the Conference of
Speaker 4: Christian Presidents for Israel. It could happen here will return
Speaker 4: after these messages. At this point, Heritage went into complete
Speaker 4: damage control. Roberts apologized during a Heritage all hands meeting
Speaker 4: last Wednesday, November fifth, quote I made a mistake, and
Speaker 4: I let you down, and I let down this institution, period,
Speaker 4: full stop.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 4: Roberts claimed that it was the since resigned chief of staff,
Speaker 4: Ryan Nuhouse, who wrote the script for Robert's initial video
Speaker 4: entirely himself and lied about the script being approved by
Speaker 4: a handful of colleagues. Roberts called the use of the
Speaker 4: phrase a venomous coalition a quote unquote terrible choice of words.
Speaker 4: The Washington Free Beacon reported that Roberts said he was
Speaker 4: willing to resign, but felt a quote unquote moral obligation
Speaker 4: to repair the situation, and had told the Heritage Foundation
Speaker 4: Board of directors quote I made the mess let me
Speaker 4: clean it up. During the all hands meeting, Roberts explained
Speaker 4: that the video came to be because Heritage was under
Speaker 4: pressure to make a statement that Carlson was quote no
Speaker 4: longer part of the conservative movement. Later in this meeting,
Speaker 4: Roberts acknowledged that there could be a quote limiting principle
Speaker 4: to no cancelation. Longtime Heritage Research fellow Robert Rector went
Speaker 4: on a tie rade against Tucker and Fuentes, likening Tucker's
Speaker 4: show to stepping into a lunatic asylum, and advocated for
Speaker 4: a return of right wing cancelation.
Speaker 16: Because if you don't have boundaries on who you regard
Speaker 16: inside the movement, the movement will destroy itself and it
Speaker 16: will create a pr nightmare for everybody in it. And
Speaker 16: the boundaries that he set forth William Buckley in the
Speaker 16: early nineteen sixties were twofold. You have to expunge all
Speaker 16: anti Semitism.
Speaker 3: All of it.
Speaker 16: But that's just part of it from the conservative movement.
Speaker 16: The other is you have to expel the lunatics, Okay,
Speaker 16: the lunatics who think that Eisenhower was a communist, Okay,
Speaker 16: and a whole bunch of and we have them back now.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 16: They are both here back just the way they were
Speaker 16: in nineteen fifty nine. And we have to go back
Speaker 16: and set the general parameters. You say, oh, we don't cancel,
Speaker 16: we do cancel. Did we cancel David Duke? Yes, you
Speaker 16: don't even know who David Duke was. Probably most of you.
Speaker 16: God's say, you know yes, do we cancel the John
Speaker 16: Bird Society, Yes, okay, because they were harmful. Because if
Speaker 16: you're they're in your movement, you look like clowns.
Speaker 4: This highlights so much of my frustration around this whole
Speaker 4: controversy with all of the Conservatives at the Leopards Eating
Speaker 4: People's Faces Party trying to say that obviously the leopards
Speaker 4: who are eating people's faces aren't actually Conservatives.
Speaker 3: Despite the being part of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party,
Speaker 3: Bircherism has achieved a near total capture of the modern
Speaker 3: day Republican Party, especially under Trump. You can't remove the
Speaker 3: John Birch Society element from the modern day Republican Party
Speaker 3: without the whole party collapsing. They won.
Speaker 4: That's what the party is now. That's what Heritage's project
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five is. Kevin Roberts responded to Rector's tirade
Speaker 4: by continuing to advocate that Heritage should attempt to bring
Speaker 4: some of Fuentes's audience into the conservative fold.
Speaker 13: But there's a segment of that audience who might be
Speaker 13: with us, and they really are not Nazis and anti Semites,
Speaker 13: then maybe we can eventually bring them into the fold.
Speaker 5: I think we have to think that way.
Speaker 4: None of these people can be allowed to distance themselves
Speaker 4: from the leopards eating people's faces party, to quote a
Speaker 4: write up from the right wing rag National Review, quote,
Speaker 4: the Heritage staff meeting exposed something of a generational divide
Speaker 4: within Heritage, as one staffer, who claimed to represent the
Speaker 4: perspective of the foundation's younger employees, said that she did
Speaker 4: not have a problem with roberts initial defense of Carlson
Speaker 4: and wanted to make sure that the viewpoints of her generation,
Speaker 4: who she said were generally more critical of Israel, would
Speaker 4: still be welcome at Heritage. Unquote, The Heritage Tucker Fuentes
Speaker 4: debacle has come in a time where the right was
Speaker 4: already in the middle of debate over how to handle
Speaker 4: infighting conservative anti cancel culture and the newly adopted principle
Speaker 4: of no enemies to the right after years of suffering
Speaker 4: from liberal led deplatforming campaigns.
Speaker 3: During the quote unquote woke era.
Speaker 4: This debate really came to a head last month after
Speaker 4: the Young Republican pro Hitler racist group chat scandal, which
Speaker 4: was subsequently brushed off by people like Matt Walsh and
Speaker 4: Vice president jd Vance, who dismissed the texts, telling people
Speaker 4: who are concerned about it to quote unquote grow up,
Speaker 4: while referring to the chat as a college group chat,
Speaker 4: calling the members kids and young boys, when the group
Speaker 4: chat in question was made up of men in their thirties.
Speaker 17: Don't put things on the internet, like, be careful with
Speaker 17: what you post. If you put something in a group chat,
Speaker 17: assume that some scumbag is going to leak it in
Speaker 17: an effort to try to cause you harm or cause
Speaker 17: your family harm. But the reality is that kids do
Speaker 17: stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes
Speaker 17: like that's what kids do. And I really don't want
Speaker 17: us to grow up in a country where a kid
Speaker 17: telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive, stupid joke
Speaker 17: is caused to ruin their lives. And at some point
Speaker 17: we're all going to have to say enough of this, bs.
Speaker 17: We're not going to allow the worst moment and a
Speaker 17: twenty one year old's group chat to ruin a kid's
Speaker 17: life for the rest of time.
Speaker 2: That's just not okay.
Speaker 17: Like, we live in a digital world. This stuff is
Speaker 17: now etstin stone online. We're all gonna have to say,
Speaker 17: you know what, no no, no, we're not doing this.
Speaker 17: We're not canceling kids because they do something.
Speaker 2: Stupid in a group chat.
Speaker 5: And if I have to be the person.
Speaker 17: Who carries that message forward, I'm fine with it.
Speaker 3: To quote Matt.
Speaker 4: Walsh quote, I said a few weeks ago that we
Speaker 4: all need to band together in the wake of Charlie's death,
Speaker 4: and the answer I got back from a lot of
Speaker 4: people on the right was basically, no, well, okay, then guys,
Speaker 4: we'll just lose. Instead, the left will keep the unite
Speaker 4: in front and defend their guys no matter what. Well,
Speaker 4: we keep throwing each other to the wolves at every opportunity.
Speaker 3: Great plan.
Speaker 4: The left actually wants me dead, like specifically and personally.
Speaker 4: They're the reason why I need security at my house,
Speaker 4: why I worry for my children's safety. We've had to
Speaker 4: make major changes to the way we live our daily
Speaker 4: lives to account for this danger. So when I say
Speaker 4: that I want to stop the fighting and unite against
Speaker 4: this threat, that's the context. I'm sorry if the squabbles
Speaker 4: among right wingers just kind of pale in comparison for me.
Speaker 4: If you have the luxury to care more about that,
Speaker 4: I envy you.
Speaker 3: I truly do.
Speaker 4: Last week, Magan Kelly interviewed Tucker and Shapiro across a
Speaker 4: two day event where she asked both about the possibility
Speaker 4: of uniting the Right.
Speaker 2: Is there any way that you and Ben Shapiro can
Speaker 2: actually find your way to deton.
Speaker 3: I'm not against Ben Shapiro.
Speaker 12: He did like a forty minute thing yesterday calling me
Speaker 12: dangerous and all this stuff. It's like, I didn't watch
Speaker 12: it because why, but I got a lot of texts
Speaker 12: about it, and it's like, I'm not I don't think
Speaker 12: Ben Shapiro is driving a lot of this stuff. I
Speaker 12: don't consider him like the world's greatest force for evil.
Speaker 12: I don't feel that way at all. I don't actually
Speaker 12: think about him ever. So I don't want to have
Speaker 12: a war with Ben and Shapiro. I don't know if
Speaker 12: does he really think that me doing interview in which
Speaker 12: I explained that anti Semitism is wrong to one of
Speaker 12: the lead purveyors of anti Semitism, but that somehow makes
Speaker 12: me a Nazi?
Speaker 3: Like what is the argument here?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask him tomorrow night.
Speaker 3: But I don't even understand what the argument is.
Speaker 12: All I know is that the Right and I've been
Speaker 12: on the right since before Ben was born, is acting
Speaker 12: like the left in such an amazingly precise way that
Speaker 12: I'm like, what the hell is going on?
Speaker 18: I agree with Tucker that the right is in fact
Speaker 18: acting life the left by again massaging its radicals in
Speaker 18: the name of some sort of faux unity sound because
Speaker 18: again I'm not again trying to turn this personal is
Speaker 18: a mistake, I know, but can it happened.
Speaker 4: During the fallout of the Tucker Fwenttes interview, far right
Speaker 4: influencer Mike Cernovich said quote, there's a lot of bad
Speaker 4: faith going on. So this is for those few of
Speaker 4: you perplexed about the reluctance of mega people to ever
Speaker 4: disavow anyone. We are old and we know it never stops,
Speaker 4: will always demand more. Hence we draw a hard line.
Speaker 4: It's not our job to be Internet cops. After trailblazing
Speaker 4: this rhetoric for the new Right, now Walsh and Vance
Speaker 4: find themselves in an uncomfortable position.
Speaker 3: Walsh due to.
Speaker 4: His employer Ben Shapiro, and Vance because of his future
Speaker 4: political prospects. In the midst of the Fuenes controversy, Walsh
Speaker 4: posted quote, we have a very short window of time
Speaker 4: where we control Congress and the White House, and we
Speaker 4: have the power to push our agenda forward. We're going
Speaker 4: to waste this window fighting with each other. We're going
Speaker 4: to squander everything. I'm furious, Honestly, I.
Speaker 6: Have just about had it with Matt Walsh. Matt, you
Speaker 6: work for this fucking guy. Whose side are you on?
Speaker 6: Already cut the shit, Matt Walsh. Every day on a show,
Speaker 6: he goes on Twitter in his show and says, this
Speaker 6: is all just gossip and drama, a gossip and drama.
Speaker 3: This is the war.
Speaker 6: Might not be the one you wanted, but this is
Speaker 6: the one that's going on. So Walsh wants to refuse
Speaker 6: himself from this and say, hey, man, I just care
Speaker 6: about America. Hey fucker, it's happening in America right now.
Speaker 6: Tucker's an American. Last I checked, this is going on here.
Speaker 6: We didn't make anti Semitism the wedge issue.
Speaker 3: They did.
Speaker 6: We didn't make fighting Israel's wars the wedge issue.
Speaker 3: They did.
Speaker 6: And Walsh wants to get on Twitter and say, I
Speaker 6: just don't want to talk about it. I just want
Speaker 6: to keep taking a paycheck from the worst of the worst. Shapiro,
Speaker 6: you gotta pick a side and nobody can let him
Speaker 6: get away with this. As long as you're America First,
Speaker 6: you need to be in his reply, saying no, Matt,
Speaker 6: you work for Ben Shapiro.
Speaker 4: Cock Vance's only statement about this debacle reads quote, the
Speaker 4: infighting is stupid. I care about my fellow citizens, particularly
Speaker 4: young Americans, being able to afford a decent life. I
Speaker 4: care about immigration and our sovereignty, and I care about
Speaker 4: establishing peace overseas so our resources can be focused at home.
Speaker 4: If you care about these things too, let's work together.
Speaker 4: Compare that to Mike Pence sharing an article critical of
Speaker 4: Fuentes by the Wall Street Journal editorial Board titled the
Speaker 4: Rights New Anti Semites. Meanwhile, Nick Fuentes is bragging that
Speaker 4: he has Vance caught in his groper squeeze, threatening to
Speaker 4: send gropers to twenty twenty eight primary states to disrupt
Speaker 4: Vince's campaign, much like the groper War of twenty nineteen
Speaker 4: targeting TPUSA.
Speaker 6: He's getting squeezed because the gropers are on the one
Speaker 6: hand saying, hey, listen, fat boy, we want America first.
Speaker 6: You want to run for president. We want to hear
Speaker 6: you say America first. And on the other side, he's
Speaker 6: got his donors, and they're saying they're horrible anti Semites.
Speaker 6: You have to disavow them. You have to forcefully condemn them.
Speaker 6: Condemned talker, Condemn the gropers. Now advance, condemns the groupers.
Speaker 6: We are deploying to Iowa. Raise your right hand. I
Speaker 6: swear I'm gonna move to Iowa and New Hampshire and
Speaker 6: Nevada and South Carolina and one primary after the next,
Speaker 6: and we will go to every town hall. We will
Speaker 6: go to every meet and greet where there's four or
Speaker 6: five people, and we will be there, and we'll do
Speaker 6: it for free.
Speaker 4: Nick has since laid out a more clear three year
Speaker 4: strategy for his fans to shape the upcoming presidential primary
Speaker 4: and infiltrate the next Republican White House. In some ways,
Speaker 4: I think Ted Cruz is right. This has been a
Speaker 4: time of choosing the only problem is that the choice
Speaker 4: has already been made. The Fuentes interview is already Tucker
Speaker 4: Carlson's fourth most popular video ever. Just two weeks after
Speaker 4: its release. Fuentes's quote tweet of Shapiro's takedown video ratioed
Speaker 4: Shapiro by one hundred and twenty thousand likes. Fuentes's last
Speaker 4: ten live streams have had an average viewership of over
Speaker 4: eight hundred thousand people on Rumble, beating Shapiro's average YouTube
Speaker 4: of you count by hundreds of thousands. The New York
Speaker 4: Times has put out seven pieces on Fuentes, both articles
Speaker 4: and opinion since the Tucker interview, plus other related news
Speaker 4: stories about Heritage and Tucker, which obviously mentioned Fuentes. Other
Speaker 4: outlets from The Wall Street Journal to The Washington Post
Speaker 4: have followed suit. CNN did a five minute and thirty
Speaker 4: second segment on the followed of the Heritage Tucker Fwent
Speaker 4: has situation and what it means for the future of
Speaker 4: the Republican Party, and has since done more segments on
Speaker 4: the issue, including one with Ben Shapiro. Multiple Twentes segments
Speaker 4: have also aired on MSNBC.
Speaker 19: Here's a sampling for once Donald Trump has remained silent
Speaker 19: on an issue, as well as Jade Vance, who is
Speaker 19: reportedly personally close to Carlson. It also has opened up
Speaker 19: an uncomfortable discussion for the GOP about what place people
Speaker 19: like Nick Fwent does have within the MAGA movement.
Speaker 20: And now to the brewing war within MAGA over the
Speaker 20: future of the American conservative movement. It comes as far
Speaker 20: right influencer Nick Fuentes recently recorded a cordial interview at
Speaker 20: the invitation of Tucker Carlson. That more than five million
Speaker 20: people have viewed the latest op ed in The Los
Speaker 20: Angeles Times by our next guest is highlighting this growing division.
Speaker 20: Contributing writer Matt Lewis contends that some Trump loyalists are
Speaker 20: now objecting to maga's quote white power element. Matt joins us,
Speaker 20: Now he's an author, columnist and conservative writer. Matt, the
Speaker 20: fact that we're even talking about a quote unquote white
Speaker 20: power element is I think concerning on its face, But
Speaker 20: this is also something that's persisted within MAGA over the
Speaker 20: course of the last ten years. I mean, I remember
Speaker 20: covering when Trump himself had dinner with Nick Fuentes at
Speaker 20: the invitation of Kanye West just a few years ago,
Speaker 20: November twenty twenty two at mar A Lago.
Speaker 3: Why was this not a conversation then?
Speaker 5: And what's changed now? Look, yeah, I think you're totally right.
Speaker 21: I mean, part of it is that Donald Trump has
Speaker 21: actually been a really good friend to Israel.
Speaker 4: I never thought the leopards would eat my face, sobs
Speaker 4: Conservative columnist who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
Speaker 4: Even calling Fuentes a quote unquote white power figure shows
Speaker 4: how outdated and out of touch the talking heads and
Speaker 4: many journalists are. It's not the eighties anymore, white power?
Speaker 4: What are you talking about? That's not what Fuentes is doing.
Speaker 4: If you can't recognize that, you shouldn't be talking about it.
Speaker 4: These talking heads are completely ill equipped to understand gen
Speaker 4: Z politics, or the lack thereof. We saw this in
Speaker 4: the reporting on Tyler Robinson in the past few mass
Speaker 4: killing fandom school shooters. Here's MSNBC again.
Speaker 21: According to some sources at the Heritage Foundation, a lot
Speaker 21: of their interns something like forty to fifty percent or
Speaker 21: something agree with FOI this, which is really stunning if
Speaker 21: you were around the conservative movement, let's say, in the
Speaker 21: George W.
Speaker 4: Bush era, the fucking George W. Bush era, unbelievable. Nick
Speaker 4: Fuenttes's politically vulgar obscenity is exactly what pushes his clips
Speaker 4: into people's social media feeds, cutting through the dry neo
Speaker 4: conservative boomer slop of older Republican content creators as Trump
Speaker 4: two point zero continues and Maga becomes the establishment again.
Speaker 4: It's not going to be cool to listen to Benny Johnson,
Speaker 4: whoever's hosting the New Charlie Kirk Show, or Ben Shapiro,
Speaker 4: to the extent to which listening to any of those
Speaker 4: is even still cool or counter cultural. Fuentes doesn't have
Speaker 4: this same problem. He can ride the cultural vibe shift
Speaker 4: of the twenty twenty four election and still appeal to
Speaker 4: the reactionary tendencies of some young men, but is outside
Speaker 4: enough to continue benefiting from the gen Z thirst for
Speaker 4: anti establishment populism. At the end of last month, there
Speaker 4: was a short article in The Atlantic titled the firewall
Speaker 4: against Nick Fuentes is crumbling. The white supremacist influencer is
Speaker 4: entering the MAGA mainstream, And yeah, that's correct. The tact
Speaker 4: agreement against talking about covering or platforming Nick has slowly
Speaker 4: fallen apart the past few months. Google trends graphs of
Speaker 4: search popularity has Nick Fuentes high above Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro,
Speaker 4: or Canvas Owens, and considering Nick's newfound fame, he isn't
Speaker 4: trying to slow down or moderate his views to appeal
Speaker 4: to a bigger audience, and he doesn't need to. The
Speaker 4: audience is coming to him to explain why his audience
Speaker 4: is growing so much. It's not that he's gotten less
Speaker 4: ideologically dogmatic as of recent It's that the Zoomer world
Speaker 4: has caught up to the anti ideology behind Nick Fuentes,
Speaker 4: the void of animosity that animates Fuentes, which is underneath
Speaker 4: his gesturing to relics of tradition and culture to offer
Speaker 4: a north star through the grievance inspired nihilism he actually embodies.
Speaker 4: Nick Fuentes is a meme, His clips spread like a meme.
Speaker 4: His groper movement is named after a meme, and Nick
Speaker 4: is ready willing and able to seize the spotlight he
Speaker 4: has been gifted to Nick. This controversy demonstrates that the
Speaker 4: prestigious Heritage Foundation is territory ripe for groper infiltration.
Speaker 6: What this signifies is that Heritage, the accreditation institution, the
Speaker 6: brain the priestly class that promulgates the Republican dogma. If
Speaker 6: that institution says that grouperism is up for debate, it's
Speaker 6: on the table. It's not canceled. We should talk about
Speaker 6: the ideas, and we should defend the people that defend
Speaker 6: the groupers or talked to the groupers. It signifies that
Speaker 6: one that place is a safe harbor. As I said before,
Speaker 6: So a grouper could go to work at Heritage and
Speaker 6: maybe feel welcome and comfortable, and he won't be fired.
Speaker 6: And you might have a grouper at Heritage who is
Speaker 6: going to be writing a policy paper about who knows
Speaker 6: foreign policy, education, immigration. They might be considered like an expert,
Speaker 6: and maybe they'll go on to be a legislative director
Speaker 6: for a senator, and they might be writing laws for
Speaker 6: the US government. It's conceivable if the President of Heritage
Speaker 6: says Tucker is in the Big ten, then that means
Speaker 6: that Tucker and Nick fwent to sympathizers are allowed to
Speaker 6: be employed at Heritage, and thus they might be in
Speaker 6: the position to determine the dogma. They can write the doctrine.
Speaker 4: Conservative writer Rob Dreer has claimed, based on DC contacts
Speaker 4: and talking with gen Z staffers, quote, between thirty to
Speaker 4: forty percent of the Zoomers who work in official Republican
Speaker 4: Washington are fans of Nick Fuentes unquote, writing that this
Speaker 4: is emblematic of a generation quote willing to revel in
Speaker 4: transgressions such as they tear down the pillars of civilization
Speaker 4: just for the fun of seeing those who have been
Speaker 4: gate kept away breaching containment. The groper thing is real.
Speaker 4: It is not a fringe movement in that it really
Speaker 4: has infiltrated young conservative Washington networks to a significant degree unquote.
Speaker 4: After the Young Republican racist group chat story dropped, Nick
Speaker 4: Fuentez said on his show, quote, gropers are all over
Speaker 4: the government, and everyone knows that there's gropers at Harvard,
Speaker 4: There's grapers in all the Ivy League schools. I talked
Speaker 4: to all of them. There's gropers in government. There's grapers
Speaker 4: in every department, every agency.
Speaker 5: Unquote.
Speaker 4: There's no reason to believe Nick is exaggerating. This is
Speaker 4: something he has advocated his followers do for years, and
Speaker 4: stories like the Young Republican pro Hitler group chat are
Speaker 4: evidence of this. Nick Fuentez is mainstream now. Nick Fuentez
Speaker 4: is a legitimate part of the mainstream conservative movement. Even
Speaker 4: if he doesn't become the quote unquote successor to his
Speaker 4: longtime nemesis Charlie Kirk, Fuentes is already on course to
Speaker 4: be the main figure to have gained the most from
Speaker 4: Kirk's death and emerged advantageous. This has been it could
Speaker 4: happen here.
Speaker 5: See you on the other side.
Speaker 3: This is it could happen here.
Speaker 4: Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the
Speaker 4: White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you.
Speaker 4: I'm Garrison Davis to Dame, joined by Mia Wong, James Stout,
Speaker 4: and Robert Evans. This episode, we are covering the week
Speaker 4: of November fifth to November thirteenth.
Speaker 2: That's how I feel about the week.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how you feel.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 4: The shutdown is now over, the longest shutdown in US history.
Speaker 4: Last weekend, eight Democratic senators caved on the shutdown, approving
Speaker 4: a deal to reopen the government without extending the existing
Speaker 4: Obamacare subsidies, gaining only a promise to have a Senate
Speaker 4: floor vote on healthcare tax credits sometime in December, with
Speaker 4: no indication given that this vote would pass the Chamber
Speaker 4: and no commitment from Speaker Mike Johnson that he would
Speaker 4: hold a vote in the House. None of the Democratic
Speaker 4: senators had sided with the Republicans are up for reelection
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that suggests pretty clearly that this
Speaker 3: was orchestrated in stage by the Democratic Party as a whole.
Speaker 3: You don't have Oh, we picked eight specific people you
Speaker 3: can't vote against in the next cycle.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very clearly just stage managing.
Speaker 4: Specifically with the Schumer being somewhat in charge of the
Speaker 4: Senate that Democrats, who likely would have been the person
Speaker 4: orchestrating this, who himself did not vote for this deal,
Speaker 4: was able to personally vote against it despite likely being
Speaker 4: the one orchestrating this entire deal. Yeah, two of the
Speaker 4: senators who signed on are retiring at the end of
Speaker 4: their term. But even if we can't get healthcare through
Speaker 4: this shutdown bill, you know what these Democrats did did
Speaker 4: able to squeeze in there. Well, I don't know if
Speaker 4: the Democrats squeezed it in there, but it is in there.
Speaker 4: That's a Delta eight hemp THHC band which is inclusive,
Speaker 4: horrible in the Senate funding bill, absolutely awfully.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course they did a boy hattie and the
Speaker 2: hamp industry has gotten angry about this. They're they're planning
Speaker 2: to find it in twenty twenty six. I guess we'll
Speaker 2: all see, because it takes a while to take effect.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that is Uh, there's a lot of hemp
Speaker 2: farms in Kentucky that are pissed off right now.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 4: So we can't get healthcare, but at least we also
Speaker 4: can't get health THHC.
Speaker 3: So what if there wasn't bread or circuses? What would happen?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 5: Wow, we would vote for the Democrats mere because they're
Speaker 5: the least bad option. I think that's how that goes, right.
Speaker 5: I've been on Blue Sky a few times this week.
Speaker 5: I think I've got it pretty drilled in.
Speaker 4: Catherine Cortes Maestro of Nevada, Dick Dermoan of Illinois, John
Speaker 4: Fetterman of Pennsylvania, Megghie Hassan of New Hampshire, Tim Kaine
Speaker 4: of Virginia, Angus King of Maine.
Speaker 13: No.
Speaker 4: King's protest member just dropped. Katherine Cortez Mosto of Nevada,
Speaker 4: and Jan Shaheen of New Hampshire speaking of the Senate
Speaker 4: and the Oversight Committee, this whole Jeffrey Epstein things doesn't
Speaker 4: seem to be going away, does it?
Speaker 2: Man? Like you, I was a skeptic about like, could
Speaker 2: there be anything in there that's actually going to hurt Trump?
Speaker 2: If he hasn't been hurt so far by everything that
Speaker 2: is out there.
Speaker 3: And I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm still a little bit of a skeptic,
Speaker 2: but it's increasingly hard to be because like, how much?
Speaker 5: How could it be worse than this? Yeah, there's something
Speaker 5: that isn't This happened to.
Speaker 2: Be worse than Donald Trump was at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion
Speaker 2: and walked into a glass door because he was so
Speaker 2: busy oggling children.
Speaker 5: The fact that this is what they released to distract
Speaker 5: you from the stuff they don't want to release, well, there.
Speaker 4: Is one the Democrats, oh, to be fair, well both
Speaker 4: This was the emails they were able to subpoena from
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein's estate as a part of the Oversight Investigation
Speaker 4: into the federal government's investigation of the Epstein files. Yesterday,
Speaker 4: the Oversec Committee released this batch of files related to
Speaker 4: the Epstein investigation, mostly of note a series of emails
Speaker 4: from about twenty eleven to twenty nineteen, including one from
Speaker 4: Epstein written to Maxwell from twenty eleven quote, I want
Speaker 4: you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump.
Speaker 4: Victim redacted named victim spent hours at my house with him.
Speaker 4: He has never once been mentioned, police chief, etc. I'm
Speaker 4: seventy five percent there unquote. In a short email exchange
Speaker 4: from December twenty eighteen, an unknown individual sent Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 4: this message quote, it will all blow over. They're really
Speaker 4: just trying to take down Trump and doing whatever they
Speaker 4: can to do that, with Epstein replying yes, fix, thanks,
Speaker 4: it's wild because I am the one able to take
Speaker 4: him down. Whatever could he mean by that?
Speaker 5: Yeah, who knows.
Speaker 2: There's no way to tell. There's absolutely no way to tell.
Speaker 5: If you are currently in high school English class and
Speaker 5: people tell you you will not be able to make
Speaker 5: me millions of dollars if you're unable to use grammar,
Speaker 5: punctuational capital letters correctly. That that appears not to have
Speaker 5: been an impediment to Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein's typing style is fascinating.
Speaker 3: It's awful.
Speaker 5: Well, it's extremely distinctive, which I suppose is a valuable
Speaker 5: thing in itself.
Speaker 4: No, it's it's it's fascinating, But I mean there's a
Speaker 4: lot of different emails of note. A twenty nineteen email
Speaker 4: from Epstein to Michael Wolfe quote victim mar al Largo redacted.
Speaker 4: Trump said, he asked me to resign, never a member.
Speaker 3: Ever.
Speaker 4: Of course he knew about the girls, as he asked
Speaker 4: Glaine to stop unquote, which, by the way, the way that.
Speaker 3: I've been I've been seeing that quote passed around is
Speaker 3: just that he knew about the girl's part, which makes
Speaker 3: it a little bit technically ambiguous as to what he's
Speaker 3: talking about. But the second part being as he asked
Speaker 3: just Lane to stop. Oh, that's as blatant as it
Speaker 3: could possibly be. Right, what Epstein's saying there is really clearer.
Speaker 3: The main thing that's clear from this exchanges, at the
Speaker 3: very least, the kind to which Trump was very aware
Speaker 3: of Epstein's activities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, in which everyone was not just fucking
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, but like the Obama Whitehouse's chief legal counsel
Speaker 2: from twenty eleven twenty fourteen, right, who he messaged with
Speaker 2: regularly and seems to have been flirting with him, Right,
Speaker 2: she seems to have been into him. And they're all
Speaker 2: just kind of casually or he is with them casually
Speaker 2: joking about like being a pedophile.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's emails from Steve Bannon here, who he's just
Speaker 3: chatting with like emails a peer keel at one point.
Speaker 4: The Steve benn In exchange is from twenty nineteen from
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein talking about a recent state visit message Prince
Speaker 4: Andrew and Trump today too funny. Another reply from Epstein
Speaker 4: call Prince Andrew's accuser came out of mar A Lago
Speaker 4: and response from Bannon can't believe nobody's making you the
Speaker 4: connective issue Jesus Christ d wild wildly blatant stuff. In
Speaker 4: exchange from twenty fifteen from Michael Wolf to Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 4: I hear CNN is planning to ask Trump tonight about
Speaker 4: his relationship with you, either on air or in scrum. Afterwards,
Speaker 4: Epstein replied, if you were able to craft an answer
Speaker 4: for him, what do you think it should be? Wolf
Speaker 4: responded to that quote, I think you should let him
Speaker 4: hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the
Speaker 4: plane or to the house, then that gives you a
Speaker 4: valuable pr and political currency. You can hang him in
Speaker 4: a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you,
Speaker 4: or if it really looks like he could win, you
Speaker 4: could save him generating a debt. Of course, it is
Speaker 4: possible that when asked, He'll say, Jeffrey's great guy and
Speaker 4: has gotten a raw deal. It's a victim of political correctness,
Speaker 4: which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime.
Speaker 5: Managin putting that in writing to a Gmail address.
Speaker 3: Gmail is fast is a fascinating choice by Epstein.
Speaker 5: Yeah right, yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also the fact that every goddamn one of these messages
Speaker 2: ends with scent on my iPad? Is is it's just
Speaker 2: constantly amusing sent to my iPhone? Yeah, there are always
Speaker 2: like two extra spaces between sentences, Like you can tell
Speaker 2: they're old people typing on iPads a lot of the
Speaker 2: time with their fucking clumsy ass fingers.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Speaker 5: Tech sa is huge.
Speaker 3: Some really disturbing exchanges from Epstein and a man named
Speaker 3: Lendon Thomas Junior, with Epstein saying would you like a
Speaker 3: photo of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 4: Bro, Hawaiian tropical girl Lauren Petrella. Epstein then sent a
Speaker 4: link displaying midge of a woman quote my twenty year
Speaker 4: old girlfriend in ninety three that after two years I
Speaker 4: gave to Donald unquote.
Speaker 3: One thing I want to note here is that Lennon
Speaker 3: Thomas Junior. Yeah, baby, long long time journalist at the
Speaker 3: New York Times. And he's just handed this financial journalist. Yes,
Speaker 3: so he couldn't do anything with it. He could do
Speaker 3: nothing with it, obvious. Oh, he's a financial journalist.
Speaker 2: He can't report on what financier Jeffrey Epstein tells him
Speaker 2: about Donald Trump walking into a glass door because he
Speaker 2: was oggling naked children a Jeffrey Epstein's mansion. That's a
Speaker 2: thing that Jeffrey joked about to him, and The New
Speaker 2: York Times never printed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty sixteen they had this.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a tendency and I understand why to get
Speaker 3: sort of burned out on this right to be like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, it's more Epstein news. But we should
Speaker 3: be furious about this. Yeah, this was you know what
Speaker 3: we have. And this isn't even the stuff they're trying
Speaker 3: to hide, right, This isn't the Epstein files. This is
Speaker 3: just the emails that the Oversight Committee has been able
Speaker 3: to get right. And it suggests very plainly that we
Speaker 3: are ruled by a group of pedophiles. And I refuse
Speaker 3: to call them a cabal because cabal implies that they
Speaker 3: work in the shadows. They were not. The entire ruling
Speaker 3: class knew this was going on openly, and they're joking
Speaker 3: about it. Yeah, they don't care. Yeah, they think it's funny.
Speaker 4: There's this exchange from twenty seventeen between Jeffrey and an
Speaker 4: unknown individual where Jeffrey says, you are welcome at my
Speaker 4: house always and more private. The person responds, very well,
Speaker 4: just send me the address again and the code to
Speaker 4: the door so I can get to the second floor
Speaker 4: and send me the day and time. Thanks, Jeffrey said
Speaker 4: ten pm. Should I bring special cake from New York?
Speaker 4: The unknown individual responded yes, and then once they arrived,
Speaker 4: they sent the message quote I'm at the door, but
Speaker 4: I will wait for my time. I don't want to
Speaker 4: come early to find Trump in your house to laughing emojis,
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: Christ.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the reason they're doing this, right, the reason they're
Speaker 3: they're so blatant about this reason they all think it's
Speaker 3: so funny. The reason they're just doing this over completely
Speaker 3: unencrypted email in a way that like someone planning a
Speaker 3: completely legal protest where you stand outside of a building
Speaker 3: with signs right, would not plan it like this. The
Speaker 3: reason they're doing This is that these people and men
Speaker 3: like them have been ruling this country for five hundred
Speaker 3: years in an uninterrupted line from Columbus's fucking crew through
Speaker 3: on Hispaniola, through Jefferson and Sally Hemmings like to Epstein
Speaker 3: is an uninterrupted line. They think that they are completely
Speaker 3: invincible and that no one will ever challenge them, and
Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe they're fucking right. For all of
Speaker 3: the sort of moaning and complaining about woke censorship and
Speaker 3: me too in cancel culture, these people never shot the
Speaker 3: fuck up ever at any point. All of these people
Speaker 3: are running around to their fucking Epstein conferences taking a
Speaker 3: bunch of money talk about eugenics.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's I mean, there was some fun stuff
Speaker 2: about that in here too, because he was emailing with
Speaker 2: Lawrence Krauss. Less eugenics and more hatred of women where too,
Speaker 2: Like there were very funny emails where Kraus was being like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd made a comment in a speech that
Speaker 2: half of all the IQ in the world comes from women,
Speaker 2: but they're more than half the population. Ha like a
Speaker 2: lot of just like casual. It's a really interesting insight
Speaker 2: into how people at kind of the highest levels of
Speaker 2: finance and government and just wealth in general, and in
Speaker 2: media like communicated with each other during this period of time.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's different now because people are even less
Speaker 2: good at writing, but yeah, it's a useful. It's a
Speaker 2: snapshot that we don't get anywhere else of like this,
Speaker 2: this chunk of the I mean talking about that fucker
Speaker 2: at the New York Times, who, by the way, was
Speaker 2: shitcan in twenty nineteen for soliciting donations from Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 2: and not informing them of his personal relationship. But again,
Speaker 2: the Times never published anything based on their conversations. It's
Speaker 2: the same group of people who have been telling us
Speaker 2: every issue that like it might changentally be connected to,
Speaker 2: like transitioning is newsworthy, and it's incredibly newsworthy if this
Speaker 2: like official at a college might have plagiarized once in
Speaker 2: their childhood but or in their youth. But like, it's
Speaker 2: not newsworthy at all to talk about the possible future
Speaker 2: president walking face first into a glass door because he's
Speaker 2: staring at naked children in a pedophile's mansion.
Speaker 3: This is the period. This is the period with they
Speaker 3: were running stories about the food at Grinnell College. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you can and you know, And there's another I
Speaker 3: think part of this too, where if you look at
Speaker 3: these things, you can find these people all complaining about
Speaker 3: me too. Right now, you can find these people all
Speaker 3: doing their sort of like, oh, these are all those
Speaker 3: same people who do all of the like oh, like
Speaker 3: we're the bold truth tellers, blah blah blah, we're being
Speaker 3: censored by like cancer culture. I want to take a
Speaker 3: stab at the question that these that you're actually not
Speaker 3: allowed to ask, you know. And what I say you're
Speaker 3: not allowed to ask is these people don't want you
Speaker 3: to ask. All the fucking hedge fund manage CEOs, all
Speaker 3: the senators, all the presidents, every one of these fucking
Speaker 3: files does not want you to ask a simple question.
Speaker 3: Why do we have a ruling class? Like we gave
Speaker 3: them five hundred years of running this continent and do
Speaker 3: you know what they produced again? Five hundred years of
Speaker 3: uninterrupted pedophiles. Right we are we are on we are
Speaker 3: on year five hundred of this from like Colabus, Jefferson
Speaker 3: to Epstein, the Trump right, So why do we have this?
Speaker 2: That's just not how people people. No one's going to
Speaker 2: a store or to the politics store or heading out
Speaker 2: to vote and voting for another year of the pedophile
Speaker 2: ruling class. People don't really think. People don't tend to
Speaker 2: think about it that way, and in part they don't
Speaker 2: because the ruling strata of the United States has not
Speaker 2: portrayed itself in the same unbroken way right like it
Speaker 2: very much makes an effort not to in public. And
Speaker 2: there's an extent to which it is. It's certainly different
Speaker 2: than like the old aristocracy of the British and the
Speaker 2: landed gentry that ruled the British Empire. It's not exactly
Speaker 2: the same, but it is like the same kind of
Speaker 2: people and in a lot of cases the same families
Speaker 2: that continue to control large amounts of wealth and inherent
Speaker 2: political power. I mean, there's another fucking Kennedy who seems
Speaker 2: like a nice kid getting into politics just as we speak, right,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I feel like we'll have
Speaker 2: a dedicated episode on more of the Epstein stuff. And
Speaker 2: there's an extent to which I keep thinking about that,
Speaker 2: like bitten community, where it's like no one's on the
Speaker 2: other side of this issue that's listening to this podcast.
Speaker 2: Everybody's very angry about the pedophilia everybody's very angry about
Speaker 2: all of this stuff, and I have mostly been interpreting
Speaker 2: it through just like laughing over the last day or two,
Speaker 2: which is bad because it's like really bad stuff. You
Speaker 2: shouldn't just do that it, But like what else? What
Speaker 2: other reactions? Like you can pick and choose whatever you do.
Speaker 2: I think to your point, Mia, however you react to this,
Speaker 2: it's not going to change anything, right, yeah, Like so fine,
Speaker 2: it hasn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, but I mean, okay, I don't think that's
Speaker 3: completely true. You can watch how just like pissed off
Speaker 3: and scared these people were about like about me too, right,
Speaker 3: and like you can you can go listen to Bannon
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago talking about how if they
Speaker 3: lose the election, like we're all going to prison. Yeah right,
Speaker 3: like these people are like concerned about even like me too,
Speaker 3: which was a fairly milk toe like it wasn't like
Speaker 3: a particularly radical feminist movement right now, and these people
Speaker 3: were losing their fucking minds about it. And you know,
Speaker 3: like we we have the potential to organize feminist movements
Speaker 3: that can actually do things about this shit, Like we
Speaker 3: are capable of building new feminist movements we did one
Speaker 3: not that long ago that was a big part of
Speaker 3: this administration collapsing the first time, and we can do
Speaker 3: it again.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying there's no point in fighting them. I'm
Speaker 2: just saying, like your reaction the moment to the epstein
Speaker 2: Leagues doesn't matter as much as is this going to
Speaker 2: Is this going to cause any kind of like long
Speaker 2: term resistance to the administration? Is this going to? And
Speaker 2: maybe it will, But like I guess the thing that
Speaker 2: I'm curious about is like what what is what are
Speaker 2: what are we doing to try and make this matter? Right,
Speaker 2: Because like that's that's where I am.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the answer to the question is this going
Speaker 3: to matter? Is also something that every single one of
Speaker 3: us decides, right, because if we all just do nothing,
Speaker 3: then yeah, nothing, nothing will happen.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 3: If we go mobilize and we go do things to
Speaker 3: resist these people, we intensify the things we're already doing.
Speaker 3: If we start doing new things, if we start doing
Speaker 3: new sort of feminist insertioncies, right then things can change.
Speaker 3: But if we don't, they're not going to and we're
Speaker 3: just going to have another five hundred years with these
Speaker 3: pedophiles ruling everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that it's probably more a
Speaker 2: matter of like, this is likely to shift more people
Speaker 2: away from the GOP, at least in the immediate future.
Speaker 2: I don't think in the long term. I don't know
Speaker 2: that you don't build a coalition off of this, because
Speaker 2: the dims certainly aren't trying to you at least get
Speaker 2: this like wider awareness of where the real problem was.
Speaker 2: But I just don't know.
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be utilized electorally by some
Speaker 4: Republicans to eventually decouple the party from Trump. Yes, after
Speaker 4: this becomes more and more evident, and they're looking for
Speaker 4: a way to get themselves out of becoming the Trump Party,
Speaker 4: and turning on him specifically through this issue will probably
Speaker 4: be one of the methods in which they do that.
Speaker 4: And you see that with some people like even like
Speaker 4: margin Ta Lagree and Lauren Bobert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rod Drere is writing about some stuff adjacent to this, Right,
Speaker 2: these are the guys who think Vance needs to lead
Speaker 2: the party away from Trump.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and are already viewing Trump as a sort
Speaker 4: of lame duck presidency insomuch is that he's kind of
Speaker 4: failed to do a whole bunch of stuff especially on
Speaker 4: the economy in the past year. The midterms are about
Speaker 4: to get up and running. That's going to take up
Speaker 4: a whole bunch of energy that everyone expects the Dems
Speaker 4: to do very well in the midterms and then prevent
Speaker 4: Trump administration in the final two years from getting much
Speaker 4: of anything done through blocking things in Congress. And that's
Speaker 4: what a lot of people on the far right are
Speaker 4: like taking this situation as as basically January to now
Speaker 4: was the second Trump administration. This is the most that
Speaker 4: they're going to get done, and now it's kind of
Speaker 4: all downhill from here, yea, and they're looking far beyond
Speaker 4: Trump now.
Speaker 5: Yes, I want to tack back to the Times real
Speaker 5: quickly before we move past it. Like Garrison, some of
Speaker 5: those emails you read, if I'm not mistaken, were like
Speaker 5: in December of twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, the twenty eighteen ones are Epstein saying I
Speaker 4: am the one able to take him down.
Speaker 3: That one from twenty eighteen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, So let's talk about I mean, the week
Speaker 5: before the midterms and all week after midterms in terms
Speaker 5: of Times front page stories. Right the week before the
Speaker 5: midterms to twenty eighteen, the Times ran twelve stories on
Speaker 5: the quote unquote migrant caravan on the front page ran
Speaker 5: twenty fourth. Oh yeah, I remember that, right the week
Speaker 5: after it ran five. The migrant caravan continued to grow
Speaker 5: as more people are I was physically present in Tijuana
Speaker 5: right as the caravan was arriving, and I continued to
Speaker 5: be present for the rest of that year. The caravan
Speaker 5: con teamed to grow, more people continue to come. Right,
Speaker 5: this is and a choice was made not to cover
Speaker 5: the Epstein stuff that Roberts spoke about. Right, A choice
Speaker 5: was also made at that time to really like, this
Speaker 5: caravan was not huge. It was large, but it wasn't
Speaker 5: a hugely remarkable number of migrants, and it occupied twelve
Speaker 5: front page stories during that one week before the election. Right,
Speaker 5: I don't know how else I could say this, Like
Speaker 5: they're literally saying look over there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and I guess that's part of my fear gear
Speaker 2: is I think that is accurate as to how things
Speaker 2: are going to play out, and that the DIMS will
Speaker 2: have a good mid term and probably pretty good results
Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty. That's less clear to me, you know,
Speaker 2: because in part, if the DIMS have a really good
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, and then things continue to get worse.
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll blame the party. I don't know who's going
Speaker 2: to show up on the you know, after Trump that
Speaker 2: that's all a little unclear. But what worries me is
Speaker 2: that in the mix of all that we're going to
Speaker 2: get away from and I think this is almost inevitable
Speaker 2: actual accountability for these people, Like, I don't four seed
Speaker 2: they're being strong punished. I foresee things moving forward, possibly
Speaker 2: in a way where they get quite a bit better,
Speaker 2: but not where I don't see the likelihood of these
Speaker 2: people getting punished. And I don't know that somebody running
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty eight on a platform of we're going
Speaker 2: to hang these people in the street would win, But
Speaker 2: I think it's worth a shot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's pretty far off, I really know. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm not sure how much this will still be relevant
Speaker 4: by then. I mean after Mike Johnson for seven weeks
Speaker 4: delayed the swearing in of Arizona representative at Elite Gorihalva,
Speaker 4: she was finally sworn in yesterday on Wednesday and became
Speaker 4: the two hundred and eighteenth required signature on the discharge
Speaker 4: petition to force a floor vote for the full release
Speaker 4: of the Epstein files. Johnson says this vote will happen
Speaker 4: next week. During this process, Trump held an emergency meeting
Speaker 4: in the Situation Room with Pam Bondie, Todd Blanche, and
Speaker 4: Cash Bettel to convince Lauren Bobert to take her name
Speaker 4: off the petition, which would then result in it not
Speaker 4: being complete and forcing the vote. They are certainly in
Speaker 4: a panic over this. The whole White House team is.
Speaker 4: This morning Thursday, Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt put out an
Speaker 4: amazing post on x the Everything app quote. If not
Speaker 4: for the Jeffrey Epstein story, CNN would be forced talk
Speaker 4: about how Chuck Schumer and the Democrats got shellacked by
Speaker 4: President Trump and Republicans in the government shut down fight.
Speaker 4: It's clear this is another Democrat and mainstream media hoax
Speaker 4: fueled by fake outrage distract. When the President's wins, Republicans
Speaker 4: don't be fooled. President Trump will remain focused on making
Speaker 4: America affordable again. If not for the Jeffrey Epstein story.
Speaker 2: It was if not.
Speaker 4: If not, aren't we all saying that if the president
Speaker 4: was a pedophile, then everyone would love him.
Speaker 2: If not for the child molestation, he'd be allowed to
Speaker 2: live in this neighborhood.
Speaker 4: I want mentioned the Macon Kelly thing in terms of
Speaker 4: in terms of Republicans reacting to this and trying to
Speaker 4: find a way to sort through. And some of them
Speaker 4: are manufacturing like consent, like making Kelly here, and others
Speaker 4: I think are quite ready to just throw Trump to
Speaker 4: the wolves.
Speaker 3: Frankly, Yeah, there's a so Megan Kelly, I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: play the clip from you all because having to listen
Speaker 3: to making Kelly's.
Speaker 4: I've listened to four hours of Makeing Kelly this week.
Speaker 5: Mia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's know more. But she has this whole line
Speaker 3: about how she knows someone who's close to the case
Speaker 3: and has all the details and that person thinks that, Yeah,
Speaker 3: her exact quote is, I think there's a difference, a
Speaker 3: difference between a fifteen year old and a five year old.
Speaker 3: I mean she literally is talking about how, oh he
Speaker 3: was into the he wasn't into four or five year olds.
Speaker 3: He's talking about She says this and I quote barely
Speaker 3: legal types, and then she says fourteen or fifteen, which
Speaker 3: no legal Just pause, pause right there, fourteen fifteen not legal.
Speaker 3: I think there was a conversation to be had about
Speaker 3: the descent, which the barely legal like just turned eighteen
Speaker 3: shit is to a large extent of product of like
Speaker 3: American pedophil culture and misogyny. But like, those are fourteen
Speaker 3: and fifteen year olds, and this is the like you know, this,
Speaker 3: this is the defense of these people are are dragging
Speaker 3: out for this, which is that oh well he wasn't
Speaker 3: like literal like like five year olds. So actually it's
Speaker 3: like they're they're they're they're doing the libertarian thing. It's like,
Speaker 3: isn't it be a file or whatever? The fuck?
Speaker 4: I think a lot of this is also the result
Speaker 4: of like the QAnon brained idea that like they're four
Speaker 4: year olds and like, no, this is mostly like really
Speaker 4: young teenagers. That's mostly what these guys are into and
Speaker 4: making Kelly specifically was talking about Epstein.
Speaker 5: This is even really young.
Speaker 2: They're six fifteen to seventeen year old girls.
Speaker 13: Right.
Speaker 2: That's the part of the problem is that a huge
Speaker 2: number of not just men, but largely men in this
Speaker 2: country don't see fifteen to seventeen year old girls as children.
Speaker 3: Which they are.
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's really a pro Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: Just struggling, just incredible structural misogyny that's just yeah, And
Speaker 3: so that's what they're sort of trying to bake all
Speaker 3: of this stuff as now. And I guess we'll see
Speaker 3: whether it works or not, just because.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think this line from Megan Kelly is
Speaker 4: going to be very a large scale of Butbophelia. I
Speaker 4: don't think it's I don't think it's gonna work. I
Speaker 4: I her motivations for this are I'm sure not great.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 5: You don't know that, Garrison, And I think in some
Speaker 5: way she is pulling from like this like a QAnon
Speaker 5: brained idea, right, that these are a whole bunch of
Speaker 5: like basically infants.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, what else do you want to talk about?
Speaker 2: Let's talk about January sixth and the terrorisms.
Speaker 3: Sure, I love no either of those things.
Speaker 2: I I Garrison, you love terrorism.
Speaker 4: I had a fun day, No, I honestly I had.
Speaker 4: I had a great January sixth.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 4: That was a really fun morning for me.
Speaker 2: That was a hoot of a day. Boy howdie when
Speaker 2: they breached the capital doors? Great time? Well windows first,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think you mean when the FBI breached the Capitol.
Speaker 5: Stores for sure.
Speaker 2: Yes, So this all takes me to the sub stack
Speaker 2: of a guy named Rod Dreyer. Rod Is, he wouldn't
Speaker 2: call himself a fascist. But if you ever bring up
Speaker 2: is this specific fascist from history bad, he'd say, well,
Speaker 2: not compared to the communists they stopped right. That's the
Speaker 2: kind of conservative conservative that Rod is.
Speaker 3: He's basically friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's basically friends of Victor or Body.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Didn't he just write a piece called our women ruining
Speaker 3: the workplace?
Speaker 2: He's written several like that. I think he's just like
Speaker 2: the people I'm talking about. Was when he came out
Speaker 2: with on November tenth, called what I Saw on herd
Speaker 2: in Washington, and he was at a meeting with President
Speaker 2: Vice President James Darryl Vance, not his stolen James Dolan Vance.
Speaker 2: That's a good James Dolan. You're a real New Yorker. Now,
Speaker 2: gare are you pissed about the Knicks permanently?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 4: Basketball's too masculine for me.
Speaker 2: So he came out with this article about this this
Speaker 2: meeting that that Vance had with Victor Orbon and some
Speaker 2: other Republican luminaries. And for a little bit of context,
Speaker 2: Dreyer is, again, you wouldn't call him an anti trumper.
Speaker 2: You'd call him a guy who thinks that Trump is
Speaker 2: going to doom the right and doom the right to
Speaker 2: fascism unless jd Vance can save them. He actually has
Speaker 2: a recent His most recent column is basically jd Vance
Speaker 2: is the only person who can save the right wing
Speaker 2: from fascism. And he's a weird dude who reads a
Speaker 2: lot of Hannah Arnt but absolutely does not understand her.
Speaker 2: But this article of his based on this meeting is
Speaker 2: useful for a couple of reasons. One that I'm sure
Speaker 2: Gary and I will talk about more detail later is
Speaker 2: Drere estimates in here that thirty to forty percent of
Speaker 2: the Zoomers who are working for the Republican Party in
Speaker 2: DC are Groyper's aka fans of Holocaust DENI are and true? True?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Is that?
Speaker 2: What is that what eugen z kids are saying for truth? Garrison?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's okay, Okay, that's truth. I can't keep it
Speaker 5: a great track of that's shit anymore. Truth nuke Great,
Speaker 5: that makes sense, Duke. Sure, Yeah, they're all grapers, or
Speaker 5: at least forty percent are.
Speaker 2: Thirty thirty forty percent And I actually eat number one
Speaker 2: he Dreyer, He's not someone that I I think just
Speaker 2: makes up nonsense. I think he's like wrong because his
Speaker 2: brain is bad. But I I he provides some backup,
Speaker 2: including interviews and conversations he had for this, and this
Speaker 2: is consistent with other information coming out of the beltweigh.
Speaker 2: I think he's probably pretty close to the accurate number here, right,
Speaker 2: thirty to forty percent seems believable. Gare, I think you're
Speaker 2: more or less in the same area there, Garrison is
Speaker 2: thirty great, Yes, that's yes, that's that's what I meant. James,
Speaker 2: thank you for the most charitable reading of my sentence there. Now,
Speaker 2: the thing that I thought was the other thing that
Speaker 2: I thought was interesting from this article is because he's
Speaker 2: he's trying to talk about why the media, which he
Speaker 2: sees as an inherently left wing organization, even though we
Speaker 2: just talked about all of the carrying water for Jeffrey
Speaker 2: Epstein while attacking trans people, shit they did.
Speaker 4: It's it's it's it's a it's a right wing slash
Speaker 4: liberal organization. I would would, yeah, you have to, you
Speaker 4: have to get over some of his aspects of phrasing.
Speaker 4: But he's talking about why. One of some of the
Speaker 4: reasons why he thinks that the institutions in our society,
Speaker 4: like Zoomers do not trust them. And this is where
Speaker 4: I think he's on the money, because I think that
Speaker 4: the reason why so many gen Z Republicans, like Republican staffers,
Speaker 4: are gropers is what he gets at, which is that
Speaker 4: they're having the same problem as the rest of gen Z.
Speaker 4: They're just approaching it from a fascist standpoint. But they
Speaker 4: all are starting from the same point, which is I'm fucked.
Speaker 4: My generation is fucked. Yeah, there's no jobs, I'm not
Speaker 4: going to own a house. The climate is screwed.
Speaker 2: Like they're blaming the Jews for it, but they're they're
Speaker 2: starting at the same plan. It's school shooter politics, right,
Speaker 2: school shooter politics. Yes, some people understand this and then
Speaker 2: decide to do a school shooting. These guys decide to
Speaker 2: get jobs in Washington. Yes, but it's the same psychea
Speaker 2: behind the mechanism, exactly right. And I'm going to read
Speaker 2: a quote from Dreer's article and then we'll move past
Speaker 2: him to the primary thing I wanted to talk about here,
Speaker 2: and this is him talking about, you know, why these
Speaker 2: Zoomers don't trust the system and want to destroy everything.
Speaker 2: The institutions of our society as they see it, have
Speaker 2: lied and light and light and still lie. They still
Speaker 2: lie in many ways about race, refusing to be honest
Speaker 2: about black crime. They lie about COVID, They lied about
Speaker 2: males and females, and they force the insanity of gender
Speaker 2: ideology on us. All the military light about I Rock
Speaker 2: the universities is just the military, just the military rod.
Speaker 2: The universities embraced and enforced ideologies of lies. The Catholic
Speaker 2: churchs lie about sexual abuse and the connection to the
Speaker 2: prevalence of sexually active gay priests. Exactly is that the problem?
Speaker 2: Honeycoming institution. They lied about the benefits of mass migration
Speaker 2: and diversity. They lied about Trump and Russia. They sure
Speaker 2: didn't the political parties, in their corporate allies light about
Speaker 2: what globals we need for ordinary people. The media have lied,
Speaker 2: and they do about most things. This past week and
Speaker 2: everybody was talking about the new report in Blaze Media
Speaker 2: alleging that the mysterious January sixth pipe bomber was in
Speaker 2: fact a former Capitol Police officer, the implications being that
Speaker 2: the whole event was orchestrated by the deep state to
Speaker 2: discredit Donald Trump. Maybe mainstream media are busy trying to
Speaker 2: validate this reporting on their own. If The Blaze has
Speaker 2: this wrong, they're going to be suited to oblivion, and
Speaker 2: so will all the other media who amplify a false charge.
Speaker 2: I can tell you that.
Speaker 15: No.
Speaker 2: All I can tell you is that nobody in the
Speaker 2: MSM are talking about it as I write it, even
Speaker 2: though it is an explosive story. People were in fact
Speaker 2: talking about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And in fact, before we could do this episode, The Bulwark,
Speaker 2: which has both a website with articles and is a
Speaker 2: podcast network, came up with an article by Will Sommer,
Speaker 2: who used to write for The Journalist. Yeah, good journalist.
Speaker 2: We took a bullying hat class together, I believe was
Speaker 2: the post that he wrote for. At the time.
Speaker 4: He was like one of the leading QAnon experts for years.
Speaker 5: Yeah you student Dady beast Wassing for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Daily Beast is I think where I knew him from.
Speaker 2: And he wrote a really good article called The Blaze's
Speaker 2: pipe on Bombshell appears to bomb and basically Dreer says here, well,
Speaker 2: if the bit if the Blaze is wrong, they'll be
Speaker 2: soon too oblivion. And the short answer is yeah, I
Speaker 2: think yeah, because they absolutely named this lady and the
Speaker 2: Capitol Police. To make a long story short, if you
Speaker 2: don't want to read the whole Blaze article, you can
Speaker 2: read the piece on the bulwark. You can read the
Speaker 2: sections of it, or you can type the link to
Speaker 2: the Blaze article into like archive dot org, so you
Speaker 2: don't give from traffic if you want. It's not good.
Speaker 2: It's the entire their entire claims that this particular woman.
Speaker 2: And I am not going to name this woman because
Speaker 2: I don't think she's the bomber, and I don't think
Speaker 2: you've got name people as being a terrorist if you're
Speaker 2: not sure they were. I will say that she's a woman,
Speaker 2: and that she's a Capitol Police officer, or at least
Speaker 2: now a former Capitol Police officer who is kind of
Speaker 2: insinuated by the Blaze and has been absolutely taken up
Speaker 2: by the right wing media immediately since to be a Now,
Speaker 2: she got poached by the CIA right and that's taken
Speaker 2: as like proof that she definitely did this. She's a
Speaker 2: security guard at the CIA's she's not in the CIA.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, guys. She's a rent to cop for the CIA,
Speaker 2: which is let's be fair, probably the highest rung of
Speaker 2: rent to cop, Like, you know, you're taking a step
Speaker 2: up as a rent to cop, but she's not. She's
Speaker 2: not out there over throwing democracies yet.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe they fast track you once you're let's see a
Speaker 2: security guard enough. But so the whole claim that the
Speaker 2: Blaze is staking the reputation on because if you're paying
Speaker 2: attention to like info wars, well not reputations their financial
Speaker 2: solvency because info wars currently owes like a billion and
Speaker 2: a half dollars for wrongly accusing people of having faked
Speaker 2: match shootings and the depths of their own children. So
Speaker 2: their argument that this lady has to be it is
Speaker 2: based on they have some old footage of her, like
Speaker 2: the jogging track, and there's a couple of clips from
Speaker 2: the drugsraph they showed. But they're claiming that this Gate
Speaker 2: analysis that they did between the Capitol bomber and this
Speaker 2: woman is based on footage of her that they are
Speaker 2: not publishing publicly. That's good so that you can verify it,
Speaker 2: But that they say is ninety four percent. And they
Speaker 2: talked to a Gate analysis expert and he did a
Speaker 2: personal Gate analysis and he said it had be more
Speaker 2: than ninety eight percent, so that means basically it definitely
Speaker 2: was her because gate analysis is for sure real and
Speaker 2: not one of the Every kind of forensic science is
Speaker 2: a lie.
Speaker 22: Lie be even very good for flying shoes alone convicting
Speaker 22: someone that we have fear of you data to show
Speaker 22: that you shouldn't choose your running shoes of gate analysis,
Speaker 22: let alone fucking.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there's many articles about how it may not
Speaker 2: be the future of the shoe industry. You should certainly
Speaker 2: shouldn't be hinging your publication's survival. I'm getting right that
Speaker 2: somebody was a bomber ba.
Speaker 4: This is just the latest attempt by the right to
Speaker 4: run this whole J six false flag conspiracy, which is
Speaker 4: picking up a lot of steam. Like a few months ago,
Speaker 4: the FBI released some information on how many agents they
Speaker 4: had in the area during January sixth, and this led
Speaker 4: many many conservative commentators to believe, Oh, look, the FBI
Speaker 4: had just admitted that it was their agents that actually
Speaker 4: started the riot and was most of the like rowdy,
Speaker 4: rambunctious crew members and no. The specific wording on the
Speaker 4: announcement or statement regarding the presence of agents at J
Speaker 4: six was after after the insurrection had already started and
Speaker 4: agents were sent there to keep it under control. That's
Speaker 4: what it was referring to. And Cash Hotel released a
Speaker 4: statement days later clarifying this, but of course that doesn't
Speaker 4: pick up nearly as much traction as the original claims were.
Speaker 4: So this whole game analysis thing is continuing on this,
Speaker 4: this whole conspiracy theory about how the FBI and the
Speaker 4: CIA staged all of January six to crush Trump and
Speaker 4: remove him from power, and probably warns of a future
Speaker 4: episode just on January sixth, conspiracy theories that have propagated
Speaker 4: the past few months.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we probably, I mean, honestly, yes, but okay,
Speaker 2: to continue with this. So gain analysis was half of
Speaker 2: what their case lay on. The other half of the
Speaker 2: case was interviews with a couple of different people, primarily
Speaker 2: an FBI whistleblower, a former FBI agent who made a
Speaker 2: claim that, like, yeah, we tied the woman this officer's
Speaker 2: neighbor to a vehicle that like picked up the bomber.
Speaker 2: This is not based on publicly available information. This is
Speaker 2: based on the statements made by former FBI agent Kyle Seraphim,
Speaker 2: who is now a right wing media personality of course,
Speaker 2: and we're just trusting that this guy who is former
Speaker 2: FBI agent trying to rebrand himself as an influencer, is
Speaker 2: telling us the truth about all of this stuff that
Speaker 2: they're not presenting us with. This is this is kind
Speaker 2: of dressed up as ocent, but they're not actually providing
Speaker 2: you with the information.
Speaker 4: There's no actual open source intelligence.
Speaker 2: You can't work back from there from because they're hiding
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff.
Speaker 19: Right.
Speaker 2: There's a couple other things that Sommer notes and his
Speaker 2: article here to make their case against the former Capitol
Speaker 2: police officer. Baker was The author and co author Joseph H. Hannaman,
Speaker 2: focused on a comparison between the officer's gates, some of
Speaker 2: which was apparently captured in years old footage of her
Speaker 2: playing soccer, and footage of the pipeop such from the
Speaker 2: night of January fifth. Instead of using suspect footage released
Speaker 2: by the FBI, however, the Blaze claims it used footage
Speaker 2: from another source the article doesn't name. Critically, the Blaze
Speaker 2: didn't release an actual video comparison or significant details of
Speaker 2: the Gate analysis. Instead, it draws on the work of
Speaker 2: a man the Blaze called a video sleuth, a little
Speaker 2: known X user named Armatas whose online profile image is
Speaker 2: a picture from the nineteen ninety eight role playing video
Speaker 2: game Zeno Gears.
Speaker 4: Hell Yeah, Zeno Gears Great twigs Net video game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, You're not gonna get sued into oblivion for this shit.
Speaker 2: The Blaze, I'm proud of you.
Speaker 5: Don't believe the people who published vance Bolt's probably last
Speaker 5: interview would do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, shocking shocking stuff. Now, to be again totally fair here,
Speaker 2: Dreyer does not treat this with any sort of critical
Speaker 2: thought whatsoever. But actually a bunch of the people critiquing
Speaker 2: this have been on the right, and I where I
Speaker 2: partially agree with Drer's I think it's a mistake that
Speaker 2: the mainstream media has not dedicated more effort to busting
Speaker 2: this immediately and to pointing out the weaknesses and stuff
Speaker 2: like gait analysis immediately out the gate. So it does
Speaker 2: kind of sound like they're ignoring it. I think they're largely.
Speaker 2: I think largely this isn't getting covered because it's so
Speaker 2: shady and bad and because it's dangerous to spread these
Speaker 2: kinds of claims about a person.
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, yeah, it's like it's like the Blaze.
Speaker 2: It's not even Fox News, right, there's already law enforcement
Speaker 2: station outside this woman's house because of the number of
Speaker 2: threats that you see. Yeah right, like like again, she
Speaker 2: has ample claims for damages here.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So a couple of the people who have come after,
Speaker 2: one of them is after this article. One of them
Speaker 2: is Julie Kelly, who's a right wing media figure and
Speaker 2: is a major force in the January sixth conspiracy theory world.
Speaker 2: And she is largely attacking the Blaze because she's doing
Speaker 2: her own investigation into the who did the pipe bombing? Right,
Speaker 2: So she's she's pointed out some very obvious problems. Why
Speaker 2: don't you post that other video you have, right, why
Speaker 2: don't you show the evidence of the gate analysis?
Speaker 15: Right?
Speaker 2: So she she's been attacking this, as has Joe Hoft,
Speaker 2: who's co founder of the Gateway Pundit. Hell yeah, oh god, yeah,
Speaker 2: great stuff. So there's there's people on the right talking
Speaker 2: shit about this stuff. It's worth noting that when this
Speaker 2: initially came out, Glenn Beck spent days beforehand hyping it
Speaker 2: up and talking about how like this is the biggest
Speaker 2: I think that he literally called it like the biggest
Speaker 2: conspiracy in American history maybe, which is like Jesus Christ,
Speaker 2: dream smaller, Come on, dude.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But within like a day of the article actually coming out,
Speaker 2: the Blaze added an editor's note, which is pretty damning.
Speaker 2: An earlier version of this story said it appeared the
Speaker 2: bombing suspect interacted with police after publication. A congressional investigator
Speaker 2: with access to a camera angle that has not been
Speaker 2: made public reached out and told Blaze News a person
Speaker 2: similarly attired to the suspected bomber who comes out of
Speaker 2: the alley and crosses the street towards the two Capitol
Speaker 2: police vehicles is not the same person as the hoodie
Speaker 2: clad pipe bom suspect walking down the alley just minutes earlier. Amazing,
Speaker 2: wouldn't there gata analysis have shown.
Speaker 3: That amazing work.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't you have known that if gata analysis?
Speaker 4: This almost like you can't rely on GAINA analysis to
Speaker 4: identified individuals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like this is all bullshit. Anyway. I
Speaker 2: largely did this just because fuck you, Rod Dreer. I like,
Speaker 2: we covered this stupid ass story. Will Sommer covered this
Speaker 2: stupid ass story and we made fun of it. Thank you, Will,
Speaker 2: thank you the bulwark. This is what I've got. I've done.
Speaker 4: That Dreyer piece is also crazy and just in surreal.
Speaker 4: Surreal beca as of how much of it is like
Speaker 4: talking about how we as in the right, needs to
Speaker 4: like re recalibrate, how we discuss the reality of like
Speaker 4: complete Jewish control over our media, and how it's fine
Speaker 4: actually because a whole bunch of various like ethnicities excel
Speaker 4: in various skills and that's not weird. So it's not
Speaker 4: weird that Jews control all the media. We shouldn't be
Speaker 4: worried about this. And how how much of that piece
Speaker 4: feels like it could have been written in like the
Speaker 4: nineteen twenties. Yes, it's a crazy time. Capsule ooks yep. Anyway,
Speaker 4: that's my opinions on the tree or.
Speaker 3: Substack piece anti semitism, for anti semitism, it's a great time.
Speaker 4: I mean sure, I mean you could have I would
Speaker 4: have a slightly more complicated analysis of the piece than
Speaker 4: just anti semitism, because true approaches that issue really oddly.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's antisemitic. Frankly, I don't think he
Speaker 4: thinks he's anti semitic.
Speaker 3: I don't think he thinks he is yeah, but it's
Speaker 3: like I think that there's a difference between what he
Speaker 3: believes about himself of what he's trying to do and
Speaker 3: what he is doing.
Speaker 4: And sure, I mean I mean even even in the
Speaker 4: way that the article is written, and like a lot
Speaker 4: lot of it is yeah, I mean attacking a certain
Speaker 4: type of anti Semitism on the right.
Speaker 2: Well, you guys know what Rod Dreyer would hate other
Speaker 2: than an editor, I think he would.
Speaker 3: Actually love some ass.
Speaker 5: All right, we are back and uh, we're gonna do
Speaker 5: some very brief immigration stuff and then we will play
Speaker 5: the song you have all been waiting for and be
Speaker 5: able to talk to you. The United States Conference of
Speaker 5: Catholic Bishops based based based thank you get issue the
Speaker 5: statement this week. It's about the strongest the nation you're
Speaker 5: going to see from this entity of anything in a
Speaker 5: political realm. Right.
Speaker 4: HOPEFULLYO has not been solved on this issue.
Speaker 5: No, yeah, he is unlike we saw it, like with
Speaker 5: Bishop farm in San Diego, right, like who himself arrived
Speaker 5: as in what they call an unaccompanied minor, right, a child,
Speaker 5: a refugee. I'm going to read from the statement quote,
Speaker 5: we are disturbed when we see among our people a
Speaker 5: climate of fear and anxiety around questions of profiling and
Speaker 5: immigration enforcement. We are saddened by the state of contemporary
Speaker 5: debate and the valification of migrants. We are concerned about
Speaker 5: the conditions in detention centers and the lack of access
Speaker 5: to pastoral care. We lament that some immigrants in the
Speaker 5: United States have arbitrarily lost their legal status. We are
Speaker 5: troubled by threats against the sanctity of houses of worship
Speaker 5: and a special nature of hospitals and schools. We are
Speaker 5: grieved when we meet parents who fear being detained when
Speaker 5: taking their children to school, when we try to console
Speaker 5: family members who have already been separated from their loved ones.
Speaker 3: This isn't the usual based, based, based, based, based, based, based.
Speaker 5: And has got to got a crucifix. I guess they
Speaker 5: haven't done this for like twelve years. Right last time
Speaker 5: they did it about contraception, saying a Catholic church is
Speaker 5: an organization that I agree with all the time. If
Speaker 5: it's not, it's one that I disagree with most of
Speaker 5: the time. But I still think this is important, right, Like,
Speaker 5: this is an organization which has millions of followers in
Speaker 5: the United States, many many Catholics around the world.
Speaker 3: A lot of Catholics.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is an organization which therefore we should pay
Speaker 5: attention to, right, And I think it is telling that
Speaker 5: the work pope has not stopped with this and that
Speaker 5: it seems like the vast mediority of bishops in the
Speaker 5: United States are on his side.
Speaker 11: No, it's it's it is.
Speaker 4: It is pretty funny we have like a never Trumper,
Speaker 4: nominally conservative, woke pope and the fact that he will
Speaker 4: not blackdown on this issue and has has actually has
Speaker 4: a number of statements on this the past the past
Speaker 4: few weeks, and not softly worded statements either.
Speaker 2: Catholic priests have also been reasonably good on this issue.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's important, especially because of how much these like
Speaker 4: weird like fascist friendly treads are using Catholicism as like
Speaker 4: a fashion statement.
Speaker 3: And Jdvans included.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was gonna say, our vice president, have.
Speaker 4: The actual church be like frity freaked out by that.
Speaker 5: I think is good.
Speaker 4: It'd be worth if they were leaning into it, which
Speaker 4: certainly some cardinals like want when they were doing their selection.
Speaker 5: But if you look at the votes in this issue, right,
Speaker 5: like two hundred and sixteen votes in favor of five
Speaker 5: against and three abstentions. So among bishops, which is to
Speaker 5: sink from cardinals like this is this is almost universal, right,
Speaker 5: and yet given that our vice president has made being
Speaker 5: an adult convert to Catholicism a large part of his
Speaker 5: personality embarrassing. Yeah, this is like, it is remarkable. It's
Speaker 5: worth paying attention to. Also, I think when I talk
Speaker 5: to migrants specifically, like when I was in the Darien
Speaker 5: Gap talking to migrants, their faith is massively important to
Speaker 5: so many and a lot of people, especially coming from
Speaker 5: South Central America, will be Catholic, right, and that is
Speaker 5: what propels them through, and so for them to feel
Speaker 5: that the Church has not abandoned them, it is important
Speaker 5: to them. Yeah. The thing when I speak to people
Speaker 5: now who are here, the thing that they want more
Speaker 5: than anything is a priest to come to their hearing,
Speaker 5: to their meeting with them. That is what makes them
Speaker 5: feel safe. And so I am happy that the Church
Speaker 5: is continuing to try and make them.
Speaker 2: Feel safe, because yeah, what what else are you going
Speaker 2: to do?
Speaker 21: Right?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well we've we're trying everything else, and it's not worth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I defer to what will make the person being
Speaker 2: victimized feel better and basically all instances, and if it's
Speaker 2: having a priest along, then I'm glad the priest is there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I am am happy that this is something
Speaker 5: that can make them feel safer because, you.
Speaker 3: Know, critical support to the Catholic Church.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very critical.
Speaker 3: Well, the critical part I think. I think the other
Speaker 3: thing is worth noting that the same conference also voted
Speaker 3: to have an official ban on any gender affirming Catholic hospitals,
Speaker 3: which is like one in seven of all people in
Speaker 3: the US get their care at Catholic hospitals because there's
Speaker 3: a million of them, so critical. Yeah, yeah, like lots
Speaker 3: of they're not Yeah, look there they are no Protestants. Okay.
Speaker 4: It does feel bad to have so much Catholic praise
Speaker 4: on the show, but you know, I will swallow my
Speaker 4: Protestant prizes.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I'm neither a Catholic nor Protestant, but I'm glad
Speaker 5: this is happening.
Speaker 3: You're British, yes, so you.
Speaker 5: Do we do Catholicism without popes.
Speaker 2: I think we should have popes without Catholicism.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: See that's interesting, Robert, that's an interesting idea.
Speaker 2: That's Discordianism. Oh yeah, well, yeah, that's kind of.
Speaker 4: The least interesting version, a real kind of non Catholic
Speaker 4: like clerical class. Anyway, I'm gonna put this down in
Speaker 4: my my I FI novel Volder, you know is a.
Speaker 5: Forum of you know, just amount Adam just just just
Speaker 5: gradually reduced the volume we're going to get. We're back
Speaker 5: to Immigocehen. We did learn this week that the Department
Speaker 5: of Home ad Security secretly and illegally kept domestic data
Speaker 5: on nine hundred Chicago Land residents under Biden, just in
Speaker 5: case anyone was wondering what they were doing before people
Speaker 5: started paying attention to them. They also quote irrevocably destroyed
Speaker 5: video from inside a broad View, which is an ice
Speaker 5: tendin facility in Chicago Land. Yeah, of course I'm not
Speaker 5: shocked by that. I will say, like I would have
Speaker 5: been shocked if that had happened under a previous administration.
Speaker 5: Put it that way, like, it's not massively out of
Speaker 5: character for them to be incompetent at soaring and this
Speaker 5: kind of thing. And Ken Paxton has attempted to sue
Speaker 5: Harris County, a place in Texas, for donating not to
Speaker 5: nonprofits to provide a legal aid to migrants. He has
Speaker 5: some justification to this, which is theodocorous. But I'm just
Speaker 5: going to name a few of the NGOs here Gals
Speaker 5: and Houston Immigrant Representation Project, Kids in Needed Defense, Justice
Speaker 5: for All Immigrants, but Disis and Baker Ripley. Yeah, this does,
Speaker 5: I think show part of the strategy which we saw
Speaker 5: and we have seen since twenty eighteen. Right like you'll
Speaker 5: remember that let's of Engio volunteers and twenty eighteen were
Speaker 5: placed on a watch list, as were many journalists for
Speaker 5: crossing to cover the migrant caravan. But this idea that
Speaker 5: the NGOs are quote aiding and a vetting is a
Speaker 5: phrase you always see, right like that that somehow people
Speaker 5: would come here if it wasn't for NGOs. Often this
Speaker 5: takes on a specific form of blaming one NGO, which
Speaker 5: is highest orus Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society rate, and.
Speaker 2: We sire one guess as to why they blame that one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like repeat guest of the show Anti Semitism
Speaker 5: coming back again, which resulted directly in the in the
Speaker 5: Tree of Life shooting, right like, this is of that
Speaker 5: same intellectual family of thought. I guess that is what
Speaker 5: I will say as Ludacris. People come here because their
Speaker 5: lives are not Liverpool, where they're at. That's what I
Speaker 5: got played, play the song.
Speaker 3: Rocky jazz, righty jazz, Sorry, rocky jazz.
Speaker 23: Rocky.
Speaker 3: All right, So there is actually a surprising amount of
Speaker 3: tariff news. All right, the tariff freebate checks. Are we
Speaker 3: getting terrorff freebate checks? I think probably not? So what
Speaker 3: is this? Trump started talking about this on November eighth
Speaker 3: on True Social USA. Today he truthed, she used to
Speaker 3: call it truth. I am recommending to Senate Republicans that
Speaker 3: the hundreds of billions of dollars is the hundreds of
Speaker 3: billions are capitalized for reasons that are baffling, currently being
Speaker 3: sent to money sucking insurance companies in order to save
Speaker 3: the bad healthcare provided by Obamacare be directly sent to
Speaker 3: the people so that they can purchase their own healthcare,
Speaker 3: their own much better health care. And so originally this
Speaker 3: was going to be like a two thousand dollars thing
Speaker 3: to your health savings account from tariff proceeds or something.
Speaker 3: And then the second time he stopped talking about the
Speaker 3: health savings account stuff, and he was just saying a
Speaker 3: two thousand dollars check the USA today. The piece notes
Speaker 3: that the Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bessett, said and
Speaker 3: ABC News on November ninth, which was Sunday, that trust
Speaker 3: proposed tariff dividend could come in a lot of forms,
Speaker 3: adding it could just be the tax decreases that we
Speaker 3: are seeing on the president's agenda. No tax on tips,
Speaker 3: no tax in overtime, no taxes, social Security, deductibility of
Speaker 3: auto loans. He said, so those are subtance ancial deductions
Speaker 3: that are being financed to the tax bill. So he
Speaker 3: apparently like hadn't heard any of this is what it
Speaker 3: seems like. And then a few days later this was
Speaker 3: this was yesterday. On Wednesday the twelfth, Caroline Levitt used
Speaker 3: the ghoulish press secretary said that Trump is quote committed
Speaker 3: to the payments, So who knows. You can't call her
Speaker 3: ghoulish just because she's a twenty seven year old woman
Speaker 3: who looks like that, Yeah, that's not cool. Hey, you
Speaker 3: know what, we're not gonna're going We're not gonna do this.
Speaker 3: But she she is ghoulish, not because she looks like
Speaker 3: she's forty and she's just.
Speaker 2: Like a ghoul, but like.
Speaker 3: No, but like she also acts like a ghoul constantly,
Speaker 3: which is the actual thing that she is ghoulish for.
Speaker 4: Right, Every press secretary I've ever seen has made me
Speaker 4: so mad, Like the job of a press secretary is infuriating.
Speaker 5: Yeah, remember the sake bombs.
Speaker 3: Well, also like they've never been good. They also did
Speaker 3: used to be more normal than this, Like they didn't
Speaker 3: used to be this unhinted.
Speaker 5: Didn't bring him back. I feel like like like the
Speaker 5: first Trump had been moved a min a certain way.
Speaker 3: Too. It's just awful, terrible stuff. Didn't used to be
Speaker 3: like this. What are the few things I'll ever say
Speaker 3: that anyway? As you were saying, yeah, so so, she
Speaker 3: said that Trump is committed to the payments. I again,
Speaker 3: I don't think we're gonna see this, probably not definitely,
Speaker 3: don't plan on having x two thousand dollars. I think
Speaker 3: he's I think he's committed to the payments as much
Speaker 3: as he is his like first or second wife. Yeah,
Speaker 3: which is not much so. The second, the second incredibly
Speaker 3: important piece of tariff news is the pasta tariffs. The
Speaker 3: Department of Commerce seven percent pasta tariffs on imported Italian pasta.
Speaker 2: Garrison.
Speaker 3: The first tariff.
Speaker 2: It's still available. You can still get your mac.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It's okay.
Speaker 3: As as as the Guardian that most pasta in the
Speaker 3: US is made in the US, so it's not really
Speaker 3: affected by those cares. Yeah, hold hold on, let me
Speaker 3: let me allow me to finish the sentence hears in,
Speaker 3: I will address t hu. So it's it's mostly just gluten.
Speaker 3: It's mostly gluten free pasta. And also like imported fancy pasta,
Speaker 3: which is like nice little pasta, Well fancy is a
Speaker 3: bit of okay, it's like two dollars more.
Speaker 5: Okay, attack some pretension, you know, and.
Speaker 3: So this but this sucks for people who like pasta,
Speaker 3: that's good. And also for people who ARESI to gluten
Speaker 3: or who just are trying to reduce the amount of
Speaker 3: gluten they're eating for diabetic reasons, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: That all really sucks. In that same piece, Yeah, that
Speaker 3: same Guardian piece, the unbelievably named Scott ketch Him, who
Speaker 3: is the founder of like an artismal.
Speaker 2: Ketch him is the real last name. That's why the
Speaker 2: Pokemon game is.
Speaker 5: Idah Scott.
Speaker 4: I don't understand why ketchup is funny? Why catch them funny?
Speaker 2: Did you not play the Pokemon you too.
Speaker 13: No.
Speaker 3: Also, also, it's so close to being ketchup, and I
Speaker 3: think about, Okay, you have Italian pasta.
Speaker 4: Whatever, Okay, you put ketchup on Italian pasta?
Speaker 3: Interesting? No, but do you know who does do this?
Speaker 3: Chinese hotels. In two thousand and nine the thing I
Speaker 3: discovered when they, for some reason fed us tried to
Speaker 3: feed us American food instead of feeding us Chinese food,
Speaker 3: and dear god, awfweeds zeroto test.
Speaker 2: My favorite thing in any foreign country is when they're like,
Speaker 2: I know what you want, American food. You came to
Speaker 2: Grease to eat it, TGI Fridays, didn't you.
Speaker 3: Burger is all over Berlin.
Speaker 2: Burger's not America, bug right.
Speaker 5: And it is now. I feel like he'd be disappointed,
Speaker 5: Carson if you knew how many people in continental Europe
Speaker 5: or eating pasta and ketch up on a daily basis.
Speaker 5: Ye that brown sugar.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Europeans are. Europeans are obviously sick.
Speaker 5: You've been to Belgium?
Speaker 2: Yeah that's wrong, I have Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, locking locking back in, locking back in on the
Speaker 3: post anarchist cafe was closed two pm. Those lazy word God,
Speaker 3: look a look at the conditions that I happened to
Speaker 3: with everyon dimentioned inflation. Out got the inflation. Joe Kerry
Speaker 3: Tymer's trying to finish it as a pasta. God, okay,
Speaker 3: finishing this. Scott Ketchum agrees that the manufacturers will quote
Speaker 3: take advantage of the news and slightly raise their prices.
Speaker 3: That's just business, he said, So this actually probably will
Speaker 3: increase pasta prices across the board because the US is
Speaker 3: as a justification for raising prices.
Speaker 5: Canonically, how old is ashketching? I'm trying to work out
Speaker 5: of this as a sibling, since.
Speaker 3: It's been like thirteen for no, but he's been thirteen
Speaker 3: for these entirely, Like.
Speaker 5: So we can think siblings more than parents.
Speaker 3: Fstein's dream.
Speaker 5: Yeah okay, Ash Kirchen's brother put it in the law.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, okay, okay. Two more things. Two more
Speaker 3: things that I had to get there, I spread to god. Okay.
Speaker 3: One fifty year mortgage. Trump has become obsessed with the
Speaker 3: idea of fifty year mortgages. Just an idea, so unhinged
Speaker 3: I have any Republicans talk about positively. The mortgage industry
Speaker 3: is like, don't do this. This is a bad idea.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to read the full paragraph I had
Speaker 3: here from CNN, but you know, CNN did a very
Speaker 3: basic calculation of instead of a thirty year fixed mortgage,
Speaker 3: a fifty year fixed mortgage. So the basically their calculation
Speaker 3: on like a four hundred and fifty thousand dollars house
Speaker 3: was that you would save about three hundred dollars a
Speaker 3: month technically, but over the course of the loan, instead
Speaker 3: of spending about five hundred and fifty thousand dollars in interest,
Speaker 3: you would spend a million dollars in interest.
Speaker 5: And yeah, that's that we save money, But give me
Speaker 5: half a million dollars to the bank.
Speaker 2: Well, hey, you're not even talking about the fifteen year
Speaker 2: auto loans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone who.
Speaker 2: Buys a Kiya can trust that it will keep working
Speaker 2: for fifteen years.
Speaker 5: He's gonna say he's.
Speaker 3: Worn't lasting fifty years. They're made like cardboard, right, Like
Speaker 3: they're just.
Speaker 5: Kind of more than twice the value of the house
Speaker 5: in interest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, make America affordable again. Yeah, okay, unbelievable. And then
Speaker 3: finally I want to close with what is actually going
Speaker 3: on with the jobs and inflation numbers for October because
Speaker 3: I think people are getting a lot of very bad
Speaker 3: information about this, I mean, and it's not their fault.
Speaker 4: It's again because the Democrats shutdown made it impossible to
Speaker 4: get any reliable data. So now we can never have
Speaker 4: data ever again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so okay, okay, so let's let's let let's let
Speaker 3: let's go into like what is it? What is actually
Speaker 3: going on here? So on Wednesday, Caroline Levitt said that
Speaker 3: we might not ever get October the October jobs and
Speaker 3: inflation data. Oops. So however, Comma, I'm sure this numbers
Speaker 3: would have been fine. Comma.
Speaker 5: Let's spirit Halloween bump would have been huge, Comma.
Speaker 3: On Thursday, National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett, who, by
Speaker 3: the way, is the guy who's whole thing is that
Speaker 3: he wants to he wants to impose taxes on holding
Speaker 3: US bonds, the worst maybe the only idea I've ever seen,
Speaker 3: fifty year mortgage astonishingly bad ideas. But he said on
Speaker 3: Fox News this is today as day of recording, said
Speaker 3: on Fox News that we're going to get some of
Speaker 3: the data, but the data we're supposed to get is
Speaker 3: very weird. Now, so this is the September data we're
Speaker 3: supposed to get next week because that was already recorded
Speaker 3: before the before they got mention. Right, Yeah, and there
Speaker 3: is legitimately even in a sort of not if a
Speaker 3: normal Bureau of Labor Statistics was trying to get these
Speaker 3: statistics out, it would be a little difficult for them. However,
Speaker 3: come we're only getting the jobs added numbers and not
Speaker 3: the job lost numbers.
Speaker 5: Oh wow, what a great strategy.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm sure that I'm sure that number is fine.
Speaker 4: I'm sure it's not negative seventy thousand jobs or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Right, and you know, and apparently, let's be as
Speaker 3: the survey the collected information never went out, and I
Speaker 3: mean it probably didn't because of the shutdown, but also
Speaker 3: like you could, you could work this out, they're just
Speaker 3: not doing it. We talked a few months ago about
Speaker 3: Trump's attempt to take over the Buer of Labor Statistics,
Speaker 3: which with his attempt to install the hideously incompetent Heritage
Speaker 3: Foundation economists and I use that term very loosely here,
Speaker 3: uh EJ and TONI and Trump was actually forced to
Speaker 3: like pull back on installing this guys ahead of a
Speaker 3: Buera of Labor Satistics. So it's being run by the
Speaker 3: interim head and has been for a long time now.
Speaker 3: But it seems like A there's conflicting information going out
Speaker 3: and B it does seem like Trump has been able
Speaker 3: to get a decent amount of control over the beer
Speaker 3: of libor Sitistics, which is supposed to be a nonpartisan
Speaker 3: body that just releases the data because everyone in the
Speaker 3: entire capitals economy reclied relies on it. And it is
Speaker 3: possible that this is that we have already gotten our
Speaker 3: last unbrigged like beeer of labor statistics reports. I mean,
Speaker 3: I can't confirm that they're straight up breaking it. And
Speaker 3: it's also possible that oh, well, this wasn't the product
Speaker 3: of that, and we are going to get some of
Speaker 3: the data like we are supposed to get inflation numbers
Speaker 3: by it's not good. Oops.
Speaker 4: Well to end on some good news, I guess. On Monday,
Speaker 4: this Supreme Court rejected a call to overturn or here
Speaker 4: it's a previous ruling on legalizing same sex marriage nation wide.
Speaker 4: So this is where this is where they're this is
Speaker 4: where they're drawing the line right now? Is this I
Speaker 4: think I think I did predict this a few months
Speaker 4: ago and in which people got a little bit mad
Speaker 4: at me for saying that I didn't think they were
Speaker 4: going to pick this one up another w in the
Speaker 4: Ghar column. But I think it is fairly interesting that
Speaker 4: this is this is the point in which they're like, nah, nah,
Speaker 4: it's not worth it. Like this, this is more settled
Speaker 4: to them than even the abortion thing was. I think
Speaker 4: I think some of the general like economic issues, shows
Speaker 4: that there is not a real desire for pushing on
Speaker 4: this right now, based on you know, gestures broadly at
Speaker 4: other economy stuff and some of the some of the
Speaker 4: some of the anti woke fuel maybe maybe running out
Speaker 4: as the as the economic situation becomes more and more
Speaker 4: dire dire, right Like, how much longer can the Republicans
Speaker 4: just scream about trans people as they're ruining the economy?
Speaker 4: Do you think that's going to still work for them
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty six?
Speaker 3: Maybe not.
Speaker 4: They might be scared that they've put all of their
Speaker 4: eggs in this whole anti wok culture basket, and now
Speaker 4: that they're in charge and the country's still getting worse,
Speaker 4: they're like, well, I wonder if we can replay that
Speaker 4: card again or not.
Speaker 3: As a final economy note, I want to note that
Speaker 3: soft Bank sold all of their shares in Nvidia Share.
Speaker 3: Don't worry about it, It's part of regular stalk rotation.
Speaker 3: It's fine. These are the biggest rubes who have ever existed,
Speaker 3: have come rid of all of.
Speaker 2: Shits.
Speaker 3: These are These are the we work guide.
Speaker 2: Whole on the bag for rework, Yes, which I mean?
Speaker 2: Does that mean that they're they're getting out too early
Speaker 2: of hey I or does it mean that, uh, they're
Speaker 2: hesitant their gun shy enough that they got out just
Speaker 2: in time.
Speaker 5: We'll see who can say we.
Speaker 3: Reported the new scarce. I'm stealing your line this week?
Speaker 2: Why we all stole that line from a terrible man.
Speaker 3: You haven't seen the Newsroom, It's stolen valor. Yep, great show.
Speaker 4: I would love a new season of the Newsroom where
Speaker 4: he works for some like bullshit like Internet News company.
Speaker 4: He's like he's like a substacker and he has like
Speaker 4: a home studio. Oh oh top ten list, Yeah God,
Speaker 4: I would love that.
Speaker 2: Would super big in it. But they don't ever make
Speaker 2: a direct point of it.
Speaker 23: It just becomes like subtly obvious, like oh wow, this
Speaker 23: this is a guy who's bought into some weird conspiracy theories. Sure,
Speaker 23: I I was thinking because I mentioned it came out
Speaker 23: the same year as True Detective.
Speaker 2: I would like a new season of The news Room.
Speaker 2: That's a crossover with the first season of True Detective,
Speaker 2: where we get Woody Harrelson and we get that British
Speaker 2: lady all all in the same room together. It'll be great.
Speaker 4: They would be a nasty combo. I mentionined, ho, which
Speaker 4: fucked up shit they could get up to it be awful?
Speaker 6: Awful?
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, well we're not even on the air anymore.
Speaker 3: Oh no, we're still in the air.
Speaker 2: Well I stopped re borning.
Speaker 5: We reported the news.
Speaker 2: We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back Monday with
Speaker 2: more episodes every week from now until the heat death
Speaker 2: of the Universe.
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
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