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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry out there outside

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Speaker 1: the fish bowl, and also there's guest producer Noel in

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Speaker 1: our pal Ben. But yeah, I'm in the room this time. Man, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: on the mike. Thanks for having us. Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: way better than that time you have me on the

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Speaker 1: April Fools episode. Well, I'm glad you brought that up

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Speaker 1: because may remember Ben from that I think it was

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Speaker 1: two thirteen or fifteen something, ungodly time ago. It's my replacement. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was the April Fools joke for the three D

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Speaker 1: printing episode. So this is your second time on the show. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Internet shredgy Ben was it were? They were like

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Speaker 1: a target of abuse. I want to thank everybody for

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Speaker 1: the very polite emails and as as we could tell, thankfully,

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Speaker 1: Chuck is fine. They yeah, they took it easy on him.

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Speaker 1: We have very nice listeners. Something. And then know, this

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Speaker 1: might be the first time you're ever speaking on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: even though you've guess produced it like a million times.

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Speaker 1: I think I may have mumbled something in the background

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Speaker 1: the time. Really, so we're having you two on let's cut,

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Speaker 1: let's get down a business because you two have a

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Speaker 1: podcast together, right, I know you also are on Mini

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Speaker 1: Crushed movie Crush. Yeah, you're also in real World's colliding

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Speaker 1: right now, Right, there's a lot I'm going over them all.

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Speaker 1: You're on stuff they don't want you to know. But

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Speaker 1: you two, Ben and Nol have come together and made

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Speaker 1: ridiculous history, which isn't awesome. Oh yeah, that's right. We're

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Speaker 1: just missing that. God I'm starting to sweat. But you

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Speaker 1: guys are on ridiculous history together. We are tell us

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Speaker 1: about that. So history is full of these cartoonish bizarre events,

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Speaker 1: often not covered in your typical history class. Sounds for Mimilier, right,

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Speaker 1: because for one reason or another, people thought that's no

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Speaker 1: way that didn't really happen. The first recorded instance of

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Speaker 1: a mooning did not result in the death of hundreds

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Speaker 1: of people, is surely not? Surely not? But it did,

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Speaker 1: And surely the US government did not have a plan

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Speaker 1: to shoot a nuclear missile at the moon, right, That

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Speaker 1: was just a Mr Show sketch, Sure not, but it

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Speaker 1: also was It was kind of parallel thinking. Is the

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Speaker 1: Mr show sketch happened before this story became declassified Project

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Speaker 1: day one nine. So our continuing mission with Ridiculous History,

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Speaker 1: not to sound too star trekky about it, is to

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Speaker 1: find those moments, the bizarre people, places, and things throughout

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Speaker 1: the span of human civilization that at least crack the

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Speaker 1: both of us up on a continual basis. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: we do have to stop recording just for a second

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Speaker 1: because we're so tickled. Yeah wow, that's that's actually high qualities,

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Speaker 1: mainly because we tickle each other physically. That's cheating, Ben,

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Speaker 1: You're making it sound so serious. It's actually a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun. It's a fun show, right Yeah, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm giving been a hard time, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's definitely like we touch on from time to time.

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Speaker 1: It'll it'll go into a heavier territory. Like, for example,

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Speaker 1: we did an episode about how women in Kansas in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties were imprisoned in labor camps for having STDs.

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Speaker 1: Well that certainly falls under ridiculous, not exactly fun or

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Speaker 1: funny right now, ridiculous, But so it's it's it's all

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Speaker 1: of those things. Some of them are you know, crack

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Speaker 1: you up hilarious moments like Napoleon Bonaparte getting attacked by

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Speaker 1: bunnies or you know, the aforementioned stt labor camps or

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Speaker 1: racist special Olympics that were held here in the States.

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Speaker 1: And we're a complete uh well tomorrow phrase we use

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Speaker 1: on the show each ship show. So so wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I think you are like, you need to name the

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Speaker 1: state that hosted that. It was St. Louis. Yeah. St Louis,

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Speaker 1: And it's because the World's Fair was happening in St.

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Speaker 1: Louis and they were going to have it in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: But the people hosting the World's Fair said, if you

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Speaker 1: don't do your Olympics as part of the World's Fair,

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Speaker 1: we're going to totally blow you out of the water

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Speaker 1: with how awesome our World's Fair is. And no one's

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Speaker 1: gonna come to your Olympics. Scared them in the early

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Speaker 1: days of like, you know, not the earliest days of

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Speaker 1: the Olympics, when they brought it back like in them,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was not ancient room. It was not

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Speaker 1: in fact ancient Rome. And it was also it was

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Speaker 1: not a good example of the Olympics either because the

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Speaker 1: white supremacists who were in charge of the whole shebang

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Speaker 1: decided that this would be the perfect time to prove

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Speaker 1: their cockamamie ideas of like eugenic ideas of kind of

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Speaker 1: like white superiority and like they would have indigenous people

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Speaker 1: competing in these Olympic events, but of course they didn't

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Speaker 1: teach them how to, you know, do the events, so

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Speaker 1: they didn't just automatically know how to pull vault or

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Speaker 1: throw a javelin or whatever. So and one supremacists can

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Speaker 1: ruin anything. Anything they put their hands on, they really

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Speaker 1: can just turns to poop. Yeah, we are doing an

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Speaker 1: episode on flash events later, so stay tuned for there. So,

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Speaker 1: so before we give everything away, you guys tell everyone

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Speaker 1: where they can find ridiculous history and when. You can

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Speaker 1: find ridiculous history at our website. No, it's ridiculous history show,

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Speaker 1: I think, so the website. It's definitely keep prepared for this.

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Speaker 1: I've got steck of notes right here. Yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: find us an Apple podcast. You find us on Spotify,

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Speaker 1: you can find us wherever you find your favorite shows,

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Speaker 1: like stuff you should know or stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know, or I should I list the entire

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Speaker 1: pantheon of all the shows we have. It's too many

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Speaker 1: at this point, but but yes, you can find us

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Speaker 1: in all of those places. We also have a community page,

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Speaker 1: uh that we're really proud of and really happy with,

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Speaker 1: called ridiculous Historians on Facebook. Taking a total cue from

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Speaker 1: the cisk army nice. Well, First of all, thank you

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Speaker 1: for all of the flattery that you've been heaping on

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Speaker 1: us for the last few minutes as much appreciated, but

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Speaker 1: also thank you for coming by. Appreciate it, guys, Thank

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Speaker 1: you guys for having so much. Let's do this every week. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that might be been much. Let me check the sketch.

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I love those guys, but I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to get out of that that new studio box.

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Speaker 1: It's like a Fema trailer. Man. It's for malde hyde

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Speaker 1: wafting off slowly poisoning us. It is still offcasting. It

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Speaker 1: feels like, yeah, big time. It's in my hair, which

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Speaker 1: is now falling out. We're in bad shape. Well before,

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Speaker 1: I like what you're wearing. By the way, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I spilled a tremendous amount of coffee on myself and

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Speaker 1: luckily I had a bunch of samples of our new

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Speaker 1: T shirt. Yeah, and this is not just a plug. Everyone.

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Speaker 1: Josh is literally wearing a Lewis the Child Skeptic T

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Speaker 1: shirt from the Stuff you Should Know store because they

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Speaker 1: sent us every shirt. I'm like, oh, great, to the

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Speaker 1: guy who has a hundred T shirts, here's twenty more.

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Speaker 1: But they are pretty cool. I'm pretty happy with this.

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Speaker 1: Like the size of it. Look at the size, perfect size.

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Speaker 1: It's not so big that it wraps around and gets

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Speaker 1: all mangled by my love handles. But it's also not

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Speaker 1: so small that it looks like, you know, caved in chest.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean. I didn't remember that reference

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Speaker 1: though I didn't neither like they listened to the Pie

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Speaker 1: Piper episode. Oh there you go. It sounds like a

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Speaker 1: youth thing, yeah, Josh, But it was just an offhanded

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Speaker 1: comment I made. Now it's a T shirt I'm wearing,

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Speaker 1: which is I love. It makes a pretty great time

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Speaker 1: to be alive. By the way, I need to give

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Speaker 1: a shout out to Brittney Shift. Um, Britney Shift sent

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Speaker 1: this idea to us. Okay, great, And the reason you

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Speaker 1: know we don't often take well that's not true. We

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Speaker 1: kind of keep a kitty of listeners suggestions, but we

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Speaker 1: don't often like do one the next week and then

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Speaker 1: shout out the person. But I thought we had fully

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Speaker 1: exhausted our Crime and Punishment series. So I was delighted

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Speaker 1: that Britney Shifts sent this in and I was like,

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Speaker 1: why haven't we done police lineup? I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: a great question. Was just sitting there waiting. Yep. The

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Speaker 1: only other one that's left is what kind of shoes

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Speaker 1: detectives wear? That that's the last one? Is this? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's gum shoe or crepe sold I think do you

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Speaker 1: knew that? Yeah? But I don't know how it relates

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Speaker 1: to cops. I guess they wore those. They are super comfortable.

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Speaker 1: Cops are always walking around walking, yeah you know, but

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Speaker 1: sometimes when they're walking, they're actually out on the street

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Speaker 1: looking for people who resemble a suspect that they have

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Speaker 1: in the jail house. And they say, hey, you come

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Speaker 1: on over here, how would you like to make ten bucks?

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Speaker 1: And the person says exactly how copper and the cops says,

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Speaker 1: by standing in is what we call a filler in

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Speaker 1: a police or they do like Comber Simpson and when

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Speaker 1: they were like a boat raffle that they said he

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Speaker 1: had to come down to the police station. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: want a boat? Yeah, and then they beat him merciless

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Speaker 1: for like parking unpaid parking tickets. Also shout out to

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Speaker 1: Beth at Schuster, who wrote to this article in the

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Speaker 1: n i J Journal the National Institute of Justice, I believe, so,

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Speaker 1: is that right? Yeah, they're pretty much committed to keeping

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Speaker 1: people from being wrongly convicted, so I would guess the

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Speaker 1: J stance for justice. Yeah, and this is this is

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Speaker 1: a good start, and we had some other stuff we

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Speaker 1: added to it. But thank you Ms Schuster, Yeah for

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Speaker 1: your work up. Well, um, I already led into the

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Speaker 1: episode and it didn't take so let me try again.

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Speaker 1: This n i J article you sent calls out a

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Speaker 1: dude named Jerry Miller, who back was two years old,

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Speaker 1: I believe. And Jerry Miller had a particularly bad day

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Speaker 1: when he was arrested and he was charged with robbing, kidnapping,

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Speaker 1: and raping a woman, and he got convicted. He was

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Speaker 1: convicted because two people, two eye witnesses, saw him in

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Speaker 1: the lineup picked him out, and then later at trial

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Speaker 1: the victim said, maybe that's him, maybe it's not, but

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Speaker 1: who cares. There's two eye witnesses that picked the show

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Speaker 1: out of a lineup. He's done. He did twenty four

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Speaker 1: years in prison, and you may notice from the tone

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Speaker 1: that I'm using here he was wrongfully convicted. He actually

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Speaker 1: got out of prison and was living life re leased

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Speaker 1: on parole, wearing an ankle bracelet a monitor constantly as

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Speaker 1: a registered sex offender. And then finally I think, um, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure two thousand seven. In two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: as part of the Innocence Project, which we've done an

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Speaker 1: episode on with um, yeah, that lady what is her name? Oh, Haulleen,

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Speaker 1: but it's definitely not Paulazon. Thank you, Jerry. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to say Pauli Shore so bad. I just knew

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Speaker 1: it was wrong, but we didn't. Right, We did an

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Speaker 1: Innocence Project episode, and under the Innocence Project, Jerry Miller

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Speaker 1: was exonerated through DNA evidence. He incontrovertibly did not do

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Speaker 1: this and lost twenty four years of his life because

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Speaker 1: of flawed eyewitness testimony. Yeah, and so you know, this

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Speaker 1: is all about police lineups and more about I mean,

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Speaker 1: we'll tell you how they work in a general sense,

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Speaker 1: but this sort of more about how you know, it's

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Speaker 1: such an imperfect system, but sort of The takeaway from

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Speaker 1: all of this that we're about to go over with

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Speaker 1: all the studies and the trying different things is kind

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, it's an imperfect system and we

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Speaker 1: can try and craft it the best way we can,

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Speaker 1: but human memory is imperfect. Identifying people in lineups is imperfect,

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Speaker 1: and we're just it's kind of the best we got

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Speaker 1: right now. Right Well, a lot of people are like,

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Speaker 1: get rid of eyewitness testimony really altogether, yes, all together.

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Speaker 1: Humans suck at eyewitness testimony. And there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: reasons why. It's not like people are out there like

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Speaker 1: I want to have me a bad guy, show me

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Speaker 1: a lineup. I'm gonna pick one of those guys out.

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Speaker 1: They're not doing that. They're they're subject to basically the

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Speaker 1: way our brains are wired. We don't walk around videotaping

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Speaker 1: everything that we see. Yeah, you know, we get sillly

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Speaker 1: bombarded with sensory information and under normal circumstances, you know,

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Speaker 1: you see a stranger on the street, you just see

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Speaker 1: there's another human. I've identified him as not a threat

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Speaker 1: and keep walking by it. If that person turned out

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Speaker 1: to be accused of a crime, um or or perpetrated

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Speaker 1: a crime, and you were brought in to say was

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Speaker 1: this the person you saw? Your brain is going to

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Speaker 1: try to reconstruct what little pieces of memory it formed

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Speaker 1: of that person. And there's a lot of things, a

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Speaker 1: lot of factors that are involved that can make that

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Speaker 1: really difficult task even harder. Yeah. Like I am someone

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Speaker 1: who has told myself, Chuck, pay attention. Like, if you're

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Speaker 1: ever in a situation like, pay attention, try and collect

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Speaker 1: yourself and try and remember a few really good details

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Speaker 1: about the car or the person. So like, this is

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Speaker 1: on my mind. And I actually had a situation when

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Speaker 1: I lived now I happened to me where I had

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Speaker 1: to go through a police lineup and I failed. Oh really,

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Speaker 1: was the suspect there? No? Well no, here's here's the

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Speaker 1: quick version is I wasn't in a hit and run

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Speaker 1: this lady. Uh, these two lady, these two younger girls,

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Speaker 1: they were probably teenagers, hit me from behind in my car.

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Speaker 1: I stopped my car, starting to get out and they

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Speaker 1: take off. So it's a hit and run. I chase them,

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Speaker 1: which is you should not do. Were you shooting into

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Speaker 1: the air and again to slow down trying to shoot

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Speaker 1: out their tires? No, but I did chase him. Because

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Speaker 1: I was so mad, and your adrenaline just shoots through

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Speaker 1: the roof when something like that happens, so immediately you're

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Speaker 1: just not yourself and like recording details. So I was

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Speaker 1: trying to catch up to get a license plate. I

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Speaker 1: saw that they went down the street that I knew

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Speaker 1: was a dead end. Um, it wasn't a cul de sect,

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Speaker 1: but it functioned to like a cul de sact. So

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Speaker 1: I stopped where I was, got out of the car.

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Speaker 1: Sure enough, twenty later they come halling but back towards me,

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Speaker 1: and uh, the look on their faces was like you know, oh, snap,

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Speaker 1: there's the guy. And they just sped right past me.

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Speaker 1: And I saw their faces as they sped past me

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Speaker 1: in their car. The cops found the car, found the people,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, we didn't do that, and so who

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Speaker 1: are these girls? These teenagers? Well that's the long and

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Speaker 1: short of it. Is all you have to do and

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Speaker 1: something like that. I said, didn't do it, and if

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Speaker 1: I can't pick you out, then you get away. And

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Speaker 1: they showed me pictures of like, you know, these were

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Speaker 1: like teenage young teenage Hispanic women. They showed me probably

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Speaker 1: probably fifteen pictures and said, can you identify them. I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, it was a month ago. They sped

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Speaker 1: past me for a second, like I couldn't even hazard

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Speaker 1: a guess, and I didn't want to do that. You know,

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Speaker 1: well that's very sensible of you. Yeah, I just didn't

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Speaker 1: want to take a stab at it. So I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea, and they're basically like, sorry, they

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Speaker 1: said they didn't do it. Wow. It's like, but you

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Speaker 1: have the car and it's damaged, and like none of

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Speaker 1: that matters. They're like not not if you can't identify

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Speaker 1: I mean I could see that. I think would be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that happened some other times in some other hit and runs.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but yeah. The long story short though, is

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Speaker 1: I'm someone who has tried to tell myself to react

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Speaker 1: in the right ways, and I couldn't tell them much

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Speaker 1: beyond like the color of the car and sort of

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Speaker 1: would it looked like because you were seeing red? Because right,

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Speaker 1: that's our that our bodies are not primed to form memories.

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Speaker 1: It's not where our where our energy goes. It's more

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Speaker 1: like getting away or shooting out the tires of a

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Speaker 1: car that just hit and ran. Right, But what you

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Speaker 1: did with that lineup is the other side of the coin.

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Speaker 1: The other problem with lineups is or eyewitness testimony from lineups,

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Speaker 1: is that sometimes people pick out people who are innocent

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Speaker 1: and other times people fail to pick out the people

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Speaker 1: who are actually the perpetrators. So it's like you said,

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Speaker 1: they're very they're very flaw it's as flawed system. The

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Speaker 1: problem is is the wrong people can go to jail

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Speaker 1: and the people who actually did it can get away

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Speaker 1: with it. So that's an extremely flawed system. And when

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Speaker 1: something that um important is on the table, then um,

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Speaker 1: it needs to be fixed. And there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people looking into how it can be fixed, but we're

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Speaker 1: not there yet by any stretch. No, and here's the

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Speaker 1: stat you were talking about the DNA exoneration. Uh, of

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Speaker 1: the first three exonerations in the US were wrongfully convicted

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Speaker 1: because of eyewitness testimony and police lineups. Say it again,

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Speaker 1: seventy of the first hundred and eighty three. So like

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Speaker 1: the Innocence Project, it's basically like a pilot study to

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Speaker 1: show through DNA exoneration all the ways that we wrongfully

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Speaker 1: convict people. And what is coming to the to the

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Speaker 1: front is eyewitness testimony. Yeah, and that the basis of

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Speaker 1: that is the police lineup right. And one other thing

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Speaker 1: that's that's problematic with the eyewitness testimony is if you

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Speaker 1: want to wow a jury, bring out an eyewitness who

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Speaker 1: seems totally sure that what they saw or that they

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Speaker 1: saw the person they're pointing to and the defendant's table, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or that that dramatic moment. It's like a movie trope.

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Speaker 1: Now you know, is the person in this room right?

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Speaker 1: Let the records show that witness is pointing at the defendant, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the problem is it has a huge impact, but

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Speaker 1: it's also really crutty wit, really crutty um evidence. There's

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Speaker 1: this guy here, he had a great quote. He says

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Speaker 1: that um eyewitness testimony is a very unusual, complex kind

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Speaker 1: of trace evidence, and it's difficult to recover, easy to contaminate,

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Speaker 1: and very hard to handle. And that just there's no

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Speaker 1: better description of eyewitness testimony. If I was ever in

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Speaker 1: court and someone identified me from the witness stand, I

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Speaker 1: would do that thing where you look at behind you

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Speaker 1: when they pointed at you, just be like, I think

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Speaker 1: they're talking behind me, and they would say no, and

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Speaker 1: they would point again, and I would move a little

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Speaker 1: bit more I'd be like, this is this witness is

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Speaker 1: clearly disturbed, and then if that, if that didn't work,

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Speaker 1: you would escalate to I'm rubber and your glue. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that usually works, right. So there's a couple of other

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Speaker 1: things that makes eyewitness testimony problematic, Chuck Um. In addition

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Speaker 1: to not being like human video recorders, there are human VCRs.

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Speaker 1: There are, Um, there are circumstances, especially surrounding a crime,

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Speaker 1: that can make it really difficult to remember. If you're

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Speaker 1: in a fight or flight situation, you're not forming memories.

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Speaker 1: If there's a weapon, um, there are people tend to

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Speaker 1: focus on the weapon. Um. You me was mugged once

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Speaker 1: and the opposite happened to her. She remember what the

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Speaker 1: person looked like, but she didn't even remember that there

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Speaker 1: was a weapon. And her friends were like, yeah, there

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Speaker 1: was a gun. Interesting, Yeah, and she went to a

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Speaker 1: lineup and like pick the guy out and bullet proof.

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Speaker 1: So she is so she's like, take your gun and

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Speaker 1: shove it that I'm not even going to recognize it. No,

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Speaker 1: but that makes sense. If someone pulls a gun on

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Speaker 1: you or has a switchblade or some other kind of

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Speaker 1: creepy weapon, the human instinct is to to focus your

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Speaker 1: attention on that thing pointed at you. And apparently people

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Speaker 1: can really describe the weapon, right, But you're focusing on

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Speaker 1: the weapon, you're not focused on the person who's holding

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Speaker 1: the weapon. Typically that helps a little bit, but not

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Speaker 1: as much as the face. Right. And then another problem

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Speaker 1: is if you are um, say uh an hispanic dude,

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Speaker 1: and you're a witness to a crime and it's a

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Speaker 1: white guy who's the perpetrator, you're going to have a

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Speaker 1: tremendous amount of difficulty picking that white guy out, as

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Speaker 1: sad as it is to say, from a lineup of

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Speaker 1: other white guys, because I would this testimony that crosses

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Speaker 1: race or ethnicities is known to be very unreliable because

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Speaker 1: it's just more difficult for somebody of an ethnicity or

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Speaker 1: a race to to separate or identify people of another

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Speaker 1: ethnicity or race. Yeah, and I don't think it's the

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Speaker 1: case where people are like, oh, white people look the

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Speaker 1: same to me. It's just weird brain science, right, You

363
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Speaker 1: just have a harder time. From way back when we

364
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,160
Speaker 1: were basically Tuck Tuck and Tuk Tuk lived with fifteen

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Speaker 1: other people that look just like him because they'd all

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Speaker 1: been in breeding for generations and generations, and they had

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Speaker 1: to be on the lookout for another group of people

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Speaker 1: who've been inbreeding for generations and generations that wanted their

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Speaker 1: jackfruit tree that they live by. What's jack fruit? O?

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Speaker 1: That word jack fruit, the big huge thing, the big

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Speaker 1: huge one. It actually makes a killer barbecue vehicle shredded

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Speaker 1: like shredded vegan standing. Oh okay, it's really good, gotcha, gotcha?

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Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break and we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: the fundamentals of the run of the mill police lineup

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Speaker 1: right after this. All right, so, run of the mill

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Speaker 1: police lineups. I mentioned that before we left. Everyone's seen

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Speaker 1: movies and TV shows, and it's not too far off. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a couple of ways you can

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Speaker 1: do it. Uh. There are lineups where you look at

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Speaker 1: someone in front of your face. And then there are

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Speaker 1: lineups like I had in l A, where I look

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Speaker 1: at photographs the ones. You know. It's way more sexy

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Speaker 1: for a TV show or a movie to line them

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Speaker 1: up in the traditional way. It's extray or narrowly sexy

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Speaker 1: like a live police lineup like you see on TV. Uh.

386
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Speaker 1: And then there are the simultaneous or sequential there's a

387
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Speaker 1: lot of debate, which we'll get into in a minute,

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Speaker 1: about which is best. To me, it's pretty obvious that

389
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Speaker 1: sequential is best. Simultaneous is the one that you see

390
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Speaker 1: on TV. They line up six or seven dudes or ladies, uh,

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Speaker 1: and you identify them. Uh usually well it depends. We'll

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Speaker 1: get into the fillers or the foils, but uh, only

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Speaker 1: usually only one of those people is a suspect. And

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Speaker 1: in like the best ideal version of it. Uh, then

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Speaker 1: there're sequential, And that's when they bring out one person

396
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Speaker 1: at a time and bring out like seven guys, just

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Speaker 1: one at a time, and you say, you know, let

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Speaker 1: me know at the end of this which one you

399
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Speaker 1: think it was, or if it's a photo lineup, they

400
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Speaker 1: show you one photo at a time. Exactly. Yeah, I

401
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Speaker 1: agree with you. I think sequential is head and shoulders

402
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Speaker 1: the better one of the of the two. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: here's the the final little piece of how it can

404
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Speaker 1: vary is whether or not to the administrator that the

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Speaker 1: person that's in charge of administrating the lineup knows who

406
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Speaker 1: the purp is or not. Yeah. That's a big one, man.

407
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Speaker 1: So it's either double blind, which means that they don't

408
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Speaker 1: even know, and to me, it seems obvious that that's

409
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Speaker 1: always the best way because there are many many circumstances

410
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Speaker 1: where you would actually even if you don't want to

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Speaker 1: or mean to lead a witness. And one example they

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Speaker 1: gave here in this article is if they say, and

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Speaker 1: if they identify a filler or a foil a k a.

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Speaker 1: A person that was paid ten bucks, say that's the person,

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Speaker 1: the administrator might say, take your time? Are you sure

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Speaker 1: like you really need to take your time? Which is

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Speaker 1: basically pretty much they or conversely, if if um, when

418
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Speaker 1: they're doing it sequentially, when they get to like number four,

419
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Speaker 1: they're like, WHOA get a load of this guy. Huh jeez,

420
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Speaker 1: look at that bag character. He's guilty of something. But

421
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Speaker 1: they can't like even just a smile or something like that,

422
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Speaker 1: like a non verbal que you don't even mean to do, right,

423
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: or you may mean to do because you know that

424
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: that's the guy, and you know it in your bones

425
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: that that guy did it, and you're leading the witness, right,

426
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: it can be some some sort of nonverbal gesture. The

427
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: problem is is that most people, I can't say most people,

428
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: but it's been shown that some people, when they're brought

429
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: in as a witness for a police lineup, I feel

430
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: like it's their role. It's their job to pick somebody

431
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: for the cops. So they're more than happy to be

432
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: led by the cops because then they're fulfilling their role

433
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: and they did what they were supposed to do. So

434
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: another another technique or way to administer a good lineup

435
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: is to say, here, here's the lineup, whether it's sequential

436
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: one at a time or um all at once simultaneously. Right, Um,

437
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: the suspect may or may not be in this lineup. Yeah,

438
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: that seems like I think they found that reduced mistaken

439
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: identity rates, uh were lower when they did this, So

440
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: you would think just always do that right right, because

441
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: it says to the witness like the person may not

442
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: be in here. It's like a none of the above,

443
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: the dreaded letter e none of the above. You're like,

444
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: oh God, does that does that mean that they're that

445
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: the answers not here? And so you may you may

446
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: say I don't I don't see them where. If they

447
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: don't say that, you're going to presume that the suspect

448
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: is in that lineup, and it's your job to find

449
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: that person and you have to pick somebody. Yeah, most

450
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: people aren't going to think like I can't say so,

451
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to They're gonna be like three. Yeah. Well,

452
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: first of all, it's a crime against you most a

453
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: lot of times when you're like picking out this purpose. Sure.

454
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: Uh so you want them to be you know, found

455
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, that's a really good point to you

456
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: want you don't want them to get away with it.

457
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is I think there's a

458
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: natural human instinct when given a test to not want

459
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: to say I can't like you might feel like you

460
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: have failed. Right. That's why I admire you saying that,

461
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: like with the phone lineup, you know, not not being

462
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: not just being like yeah, but if that wouldn't matter

463
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: to my case, because if I would have said these

464
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: two and then they're like, no, that's not the lady

465
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: whose car it was. But a lot of people still

466
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: would have right right, right, And they probably wouldn't say no,

467
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: that's wrong. They would have been like, Okay, thanks a

468
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: lot for your time or whatever, and then you would

469
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: have left. They have been like, god, he was so close. Uh.

470
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: Some other research it's interesting that suggests when uh, there

471
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: is an offender in the lineup that young children and

472
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: elderly perform about as well as just regularly young adults.

473
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: But when the lineup does not have the actual offender,

474
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: then they commit mistakes a lot higher. And to me,

475
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: that's just because I think kids and elderly might not

476
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: fully understand. I think they have to pick somebody. Okay, yeah,

477
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 1: I agree, I think that's exactly what it is too.

478
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: But the research bears that out. It looks like so

479
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: there's there is some like you you talked about research,

480
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot of research in this, but it's become ambiguous.

481
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: Right if you step back and you listen to all

482
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 1: of the different different things that you can do with

483
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: a lineup, it becomes very clear that a sequential double

484
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: blind lineup where either one photo of a suspect is

485
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: shown to the person at a time, or one live

486
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: suspect is brought out to be looked at one person

487
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: at a time and is administered by a cop or

488
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 1: a worker somebody who doesn't know who the suspect is,

489
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: that that's going to reduce the chance of a misidentification

490
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: or a failure of an identification, and that the person

491
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: who's being presented with these people is not going to

492
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: be able to guess, and if they actually do remember

493
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: who the perpetrator was, they're going to recognize them. It's

494
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: just obvious that that's the best way to do it. Right.

495
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: The thing is is there was a study in Illinois

496
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: UM that just completely rocked that idea that that that's

497
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: the case, because there was a three or five year

498
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: study in Illinois that looked at different types of lineups

499
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: and compared them side by side and found that actually,

500
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: know that a double blind sequential UM lineup actually produces

501
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: worse results than a UM a simultaneous non double blind one. Right.

502
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: But then again, not so fast with that because other

503
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: people since then have questioned the methodology they used in

504
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: that program and kind of said, you know, I don't

505
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: even know if we can take this research and take

506
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: these statistics seriously, right, because method methodologically it was a

507
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: screwed up study, Like they really dropped the ball on

508
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: the study. Yeah, and um, I don't think we mentioned

509
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: the two judgments either. During simultaneous lineups, when everyone's standing

510
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: there together, you use what's called relative judgment. In other words,

511
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: you compare all the dudes standing up there against one another,

512
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: and with the ones where they trot them out one

513
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: at a time. They use something called absolute judgment, which

514
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: is supposedly means that they're comparing it to only their

515
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: memory and not to the people that came before or after. Right,

516
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: That's that's the hope, that's the ideal, right, right, But

517
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: with this reachers and research in the study, I kind

518
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: of didn't even know what to think because it sort

519
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: of went against the grain and the findings. But then

520
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: they said, I don't even know if we can trust

521
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: these findings because the methodology was no good. So we

522
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: ended up sort of back at square one with the

523
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: Illinois pilot program. It seems like, yeah, the reason why

524
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: the methodolo methodology was so terrible. They used the double

525
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: blind procedure for sequential lineups, but they didn't use it

526
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: for simultaneous lineups. So if cops were advertently or inadvertently

527
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: leading people with simultaneous lineups, then of course those those

528
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: are going to produce um correct choices with suspects better

529
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: than the one that's a double blind sequential one. They

530
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: compared apples to oranges in the study. It's almost like

531
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: a sixth grader came up with how to actually conduct

532
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: the study that the Illinois legislature said, Illinois State Police,

533
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: go go figure this out, to do a three year

534
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: study on this, and they came back and said, huh,

535
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: and it was it's terrible. And the problem is, if

536
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: it is true that a sequential double blind study is

537
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: the way to go, that it is just smarter and

538
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: works better, that study set that back by years because

539
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: now all the cops all over the country heard they

540
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: did the study and it's actually worse not and the

541
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: design of the study was flawed methodologically, just it doesn't work. Yeah.

542
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: They even went to the cops UH at Illinois Pilot

543
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: program talk to them and they said the majority of

544
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: the officers said they didn't think that it was superior

545
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: UH and said that witnesses who can identify the offender

546
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: can do so under either procedure UH and officers express

547
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: concerns that using a blind administrator disrupts the relationship an

548
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: investigator has tries to build with a witness. So I

549
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: interpret all that as it's cops saying, can we just

550
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: keep doing it the way we've always done it because

551
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: it gets results right. But the thing is is, um,

552
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: they have some pretty good points in that if you

553
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: are running a lineup or whatever. You put together like

554
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: a six pack is what it's called in the US,

555
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: where you've got three and three mug shots of people,

556
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 1: um and or I think in Canada they usually use twelve.

557
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: But you put this thing together, then you have to

558
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: find like a patrol officer or a sergeant or somebody

559
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: who has no idea what's going on with your kids? Right,

560
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: and then those that person is to go to the house,

561
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: record the the what the person did, and then come

562
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: back and tell you. It's just an extra thing that

563
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: cops are like, come on, dude, this is just making

564
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: it way too hard. Yeah. I mean they sit in

565
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: here that sometimes even have trouble coming up with the

566
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 1: blind administrator. And maybe it's a it probably has everything

567
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: to do with budgets. But my thought is like, why

568
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: isn't there one person that does only this. Oh, that's

569
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: a great question. That just is called the administrator the

570
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: fine of administrator and goes to the people's houses or

571
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: runs them in the in the precinct or whatever, and

572
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: this is the only thing that they do, Right, I'll

573
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: do it. Bring in the administrator. Yeah, that's a TV

574
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: show waiting to happen. Uh Yeah, I don't know, it's

575
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: probably budgetary. Um. They also found with a lot of

576
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: these when there's multiple purpose, it just goes haywire because

577
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: sometimes they'll put two of the purpose in the same lineup,

578
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: right right, so super confusing. That actually falls in line

579
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: with like how to build like a decent line up

580
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: the right way, and we'll cover that and where they

581
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: get people to stand in as suspects right after this,

582
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: All right, Chuck, So you were just talking about how

583
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: if you have a lineup and you put two suspects

584
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: that you've got, say there are two guys who robbed

585
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: some lady, um, and you have five people in the lineup,

586
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: but two of them are your suspects. That actually is

587
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: totally unfair for the suspects because what you've done just

588
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: then is increase the chance that somebody could guess, just

589
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: guess randomly, uh at the suspect. Right. If you have

590
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: five people in a lineup and one of them are

591
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,919
Speaker 1: the suspect, then that person has a one in five

592
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: chance of being chosen by random chance. But if there's

593
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: two suspects in a five person lineup, they have a

594
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: two out of five chance, which is way more than

595
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: a one in five chance. Some people might even say

596
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: double the chance, right, and so it's just less fair.

597
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: So one of the standards that you want to fulfill

598
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: if you're putting together a lineup in your cop is

599
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: that you have one suspect per lineup, which is tougher

600
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: to do than you would think. Yeah, and it seems

601
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: like a lot of the problem with this is uh

602
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: and they even say so in the n i J

603
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: articles that lab studies are one thing, but actually implementing

604
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: this in the field they get different results. And people

605
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: are doing lab research on one end, cops are out

606
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: in the field, sometimes they're in people's homes, sometimes they're

607
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: in the precinct. And it seems like the two heads

608
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: aren't talking very much, and there are people, you know.

609
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: They did like a live web chat at some point

610
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: to bring together all these experts from around the world,

611
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: and they kind of all around me were like, this

612
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: is a big mess and we need to all combined

613
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: forces to try and do the right thing. And the

614
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: feeling I get is that a lot of these police

615
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: precincts just kind of want to be left alone. Sure,

616
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: I mean, they know what works, and it works, you know,

617
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: but does it well, that's the question, So, um, they

618
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: fingered a collar, right, is that the right the gumsh

619
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: you finger to call it? Yeah, then uh, it's it's

620
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: all in a good day's work. But if they fingered

621
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: the wrong collar, then it's no good so um. One

622
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: of the reasons it's somebody cop would put a two

623
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: suspects in a lineup. It's not just to like increase

624
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: the chances that one of those suspects gets picked by

625
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: an eyewitness. It's because sometimes it can be hard to

626
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: come up with people for a lineup. Yeah, this was

627
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: hard to believe, Like they can't find people sometimes, right, Well,

628
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: and the reason why is because let's say you have

629
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: multiple witnesses, and each witness gives you a different description

630
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: of the perpetrator. Right, Ideally, you're going to find a

631
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: different lineup for each witness. Yeah, Like, if there's three witnesses,

632
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: you should run three lineups because their descriptions are probably

633
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: somewhat different. Right. That can be difficult, And there's a

634
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: couple of ways to handle a lineup. You can do

635
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: a suspect matched lineup, where you've got a suspect and

636
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: to keep your suspect from standing out, you make um

637
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: all the other people in the lineup look like you

638
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: know your suspect. That's one way to do it. Another

639
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: is to do the perpetrator description match strategy, which is

640
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: you've got um and that's when you have no suspect, right,

641
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: just ants. You can have a suspect, but you're creating

642
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: your lineup based on what the what the witness has

643
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: described the perpetrator to look like, and then just throw

644
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: the suspect in there right, which can be bad for

645
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: the suspect because if the suspect the person you actually

646
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: think did it, it doesn't look anything like the eye

647
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: witness said that there's gonna be four redheads and the

648
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: one blonde guy who's actually the suspect, he's going to

649
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 1: stand out like a sore throne. So there's a lot

650
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: of different things that have to be massaged here to

651
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: try to make everybody in the lineup basically look all

652
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: like the perpetrator the eyewitness described, or all like the

653
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: suspect that you've got, because you don't want the suspect

654
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: to stand out. And there's a lot of techniques that

655
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: they used to try to make everybody look the same. Yeah,

656
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: one of the I mean they like you said, they

657
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: dressed people. It was funny that one article said in

658
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: the Bronx Precinct, they usually put them in Yankees hats. Right,

659
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: just line up a bunch of guys and Yankees, right.

660
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: That means that they have like five Yankees hats hanging

661
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: outside of the you know that room where they walk

662
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: them into. Wasn't Cramer in the lineup when he was

663
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: suspect totally serial killer suspect? Yes, I don't remember it

664
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: was a serial killer, but I remember he was in

665
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: the line up. He kept turning the wrong way. Yeah,

666
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: I think he was misidentified on the when they went

667
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: to l A to pitch the TV show, Cramer got

668
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: caught up in some like serial killer thing. I think

669
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: of that, and I think of the great lineup scene

670
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: in The Usual Suspects, which let's address that real quick,

671
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: when they have to say something so well, we can't

672
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: repeat it here because there's bad words. Right. You know,

673
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: what I was going to say is that that lineup

674
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: would never happen because not only do you have two

675
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: suspects in there, all five people in the lineup are

676
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: your suspects, and they're not dressed the same Yep. Yeah,

677
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: it's it's a total movie line up, it would never happen.

678
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: What were you going to say about them saying something? Well,

679
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: they had to recite a line. I don't know how

680
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: typical that is, though, you me. When she did her

681
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: line up, she remembered what the guy was saying, and

682
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: they that, okay, so that's the thing. And she was like,

683
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: wait a minute, can I do they have to say

684
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: whatever I say they said? And the cop was like yeah,

685
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: and she's like, really what I wanted to say? Yeah?

686
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: He's like, no, you have to say what they actually said.

687
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how did that result? Did she get the guy? Oh?

688
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: She picked him out of media? Okay, yeah, yeah, I

689
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: think I got busted. Nice man, you don't mug you me.

690
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that, buddy. You hear that? Purpose right,

691
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: he started quaking in your boots. The one thing, too,

692
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: that caught me sort of off guard is that I

693
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: never thought about is the the part about whether or

694
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: not they're clean shaven, Like there could be details of omission,

695
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: Like if eyewitness doesn't remember or doesn't mention that they

696
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: either were clean shaven or not, then I think they

697
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: default just something that may not be accurate. And so

698
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're lineup, well, your lineup should

699
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: have all clean shaven dudes. You should just assume that

700
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: if they didn't say the guy had a beard, that

701
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: that doesn't that that doesn't mean that the guy had

702
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: a beard and they just didn't say it. You should

703
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 1: just assume it means that they're clean shave, and they

704
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: should all be clean shaven in the lineup, because if

705
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: you have five clean shaven guys and one filler or

706
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: one foil with a big beard like me, I might

707
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: get picked out just because I look different, right exactly,

708
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: Or if if the one guy's clean shaven, and you're like, well,

709
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: they didn't say that the person had a beard, but

710
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: they also didn't say they didn't have a beard. So

711
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: I can put this clean shaven suspect in with four

712
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: other guys who all have beards and make them stand out.

713
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: That's the opposite. And apparently there's this New York Times

714
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: article from years back about a guy named, um what

715
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: was his name, casting agent basically Robert Weston, Yeah, Robert Weston.

716
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty interesting little article. Um. But in the

717
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: article it says that the Bronx cops that use this

718
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: guy to help fill lineups which we'll talk about in

719
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: a second. Um that that when they give the perpetrators

720
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 1: like the Yankees, hats or whatever for the lineup, like

721
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: the perpetrator is always the one who pulls it down

722
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: over his eyes, and they have to be like, dude,

723
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: putt see however, but else is wearing their hat makes

724
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: us exactly like that, or else they're going to pick

725
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: you out. So they actually are trying to help the

726
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: perpetrator at least, not stand up and be like me,

727
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, and instead just keep it on the on

728
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: the level, at least as far as the Yankees had

729
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: brooms go. I so want to be a filler. I'm

730
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: sure you could do it. I want to have to

731
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: hang around long enough until the dude who looks like

732
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: you commits a crime, which in Atlanta, I'm sure there's

733
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: a lot of hipsters running around. For sure. I don't

734
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 1: look like a hipster. I don't know, uh, I look

735
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: like it the hipster gone bad. Oh yeah, I'm not

736
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: need enough to be a hips You look like a

737
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: hit and run hipster. Hipsters are super well cooft and

738
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: like squared Away. Oh I know what you mean. You

739
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: know your your jeans aren't pegged no, I look like

740
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: a hipster who slept in. So back to Robert Weston,

741
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: this guy in New York at the time, at least,

742
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: I can't believe how little money he made. He only

743
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: got ten dollars for putting together a complete lineup. Yeah,

744
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: and they said sometimes he does as many as four

745
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: in a day and sometimes not at all. Like so

746
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: a good day for him is forty bucks. That's what

747
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: it sounds like. Man. Maybe that's the problem is they

748
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: need to Well again, it's budgetary. Probably he's gonna say,

749
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: pay a little bit more, get a casting agent in there,

750
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: get some of those college educated fillers in there, right,

751
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: I guess. And and also it made it sound like,

752
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, he's kind of pulling people off the street.

753
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're homeless people. Sometimes they're like drug addicts. Well yeah,

754
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it depends on who the purpose.

755
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 1: Sometimes they get other cops that aren't busy to stand in, right,

756
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: I mean, these are people there's a real need. People

757
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: will go to a police station and stand in the

758
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: lineup for ten dollars. Right, they get paid as much

759
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: as the guy who organized the party. Right. But if

760
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: Robert Weston stands in himself. He'll get an extra twenty

761
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: bucks on top of putting the thing together right. How

762
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: many times he tries to do that, but he he

763
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: He even said like if they want white guys, I

764
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: don't know any white guys. So they go to homeless

765
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: shelters for that. And that's that's very much what cops do.

766
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: Cops will go find people on the street, they will

767
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: go to homeless shelters. They will have UM casting agents

768
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: like Robert Weston on their speed dial um and what

769
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: they'll say is, I've got a um, middle aged white

770
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: guy with a graying beard, and um he's about six

771
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: ft tall. Give me four other people that match that description,

772
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: and ideally four other people that that match that description

773
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: will show up and not three and then one other

774
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: total outlier or something like that. Well, the one cop

775
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: was complaining about his work, it was kind of funny

776
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 1: complaining about Robert Weston. He was like, he didn't bring

777
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: in good people. He always like fudges the ages and

778
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: the races and stuff. But the reason why they keep

779
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: using this guy is because he answers his fun doesn't

780
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: matter what time you call him. He can put a

781
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: lineup together for you. And if you have a very

782
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: limited amount of time. You can only hold the suspect

783
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 1: for so long without charging the them, but you want

784
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: to put them in a lineup for what's called an

785
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: investigatory lineup to where you just want to see maybe

786
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: bringing one witness just to see if you're on the

787
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: right track. You've got a very limited amount of time

788
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: and you need people like that, which means that you

789
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: may have a lower quality one. Fortunately, that would just

790
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: be for an investigatory one. If it were for a

791
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: confirmatory one. That's the one that you see on TV

792
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 1: where it's like you bring in a witness and you've

793
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: got your suspect and they're sitting in jail and you

794
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: bring them out. That is the one where like all

795
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: the t should be crossed in the eyes should be dotted,

796
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: because a good court, well here, and we'll want to

797
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: know the details of how that lineup went, and if

798
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: anything sounds hinky, they'll toss that lineup right out, that

799
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: eye witness testimony out. The worst possible version of all

800
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: of this is something called a show up. And this

801
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: is something this is also a movie trope that you

802
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: see and that's when an officer brings a witness to

803
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: a place to show the witness the suspect that's been

804
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: apprehend ended. So like they're in the back of a car,

805
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: or here's what happens in the movie. There's a guy

806
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: in the back of a police car handcuffed. They'll bring

807
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 1: the person who was robbed or whatever there to the scene.

808
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: They'll yank him out of the back of the car

809
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: and say, it's just the dirt bag who did it?

810
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: Like just one guy, and uh, that's clearly the worst

811
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: possible version of all of this, and the guys like,

812
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: I need more pay, I'm coming down. So so one

813
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: of the here's the reason why that show up is

814
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 1: so terrible, Chuck, Well, there's no other people that they're

815
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: comparing them to. That's one. But they're also in handcuffs,

816
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: in the back of a cop car or something like that.

817
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: They're in police custody. And so the eyewitness is going

818
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: to assume that, in addition to their testimony, the cops

819
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: obviously have something on this person, and so that must

820
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: mean that the cops know it's that person and this

821
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: is just a formality. So I'll be like, yeah, sure,

822
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: that was that person. That's the first problem with it.

823
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: The second problem is is that from that point on,

824
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: that person and that they've just seen now becomes the

825
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: star of their memory of that crime. It's like they

826
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: photoshop this person's face into that vague, shadowy face that's

827
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: holding the gun that they were actually focused on, and

828
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: from that moment on they just get more and more

829
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: certain that that was the person because that person is

830
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: now starring in their memories. And it's not just the

831
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: problem with the show up but with any um misidentification.

832
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: When they see that person and that person becomes seared

833
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: in their brain, they're positive from that point on, and

834
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: they can seem very confident in court, which again juries

835
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: by even though it's garbage, and weeks and months can

836
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: go by between the point that you have experienced a

837
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: crime and when you may be identifying someone or a

838
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: court for sure as months and months and months later.

839
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: So man, part of me does think, like, get rid

840
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: of all this. A lot of people say that, or

841
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: at the very least say, this is I would's test simony.

842
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 1: It's actually terrible testimony. Actually it's terrible evidence, but let's

843
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: do it right. But and if they did say that,

844
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: if they basically lowered what what how much weight eyewitness

845
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: testimony held in court. Then those cases that were built

846
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: entirely on eyewitness testimony wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

847
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: They have to go build a bigger case. Yeah, but

848
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: like in Umi's case, it worked, it did now it

849
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: like that, right. That's the problem is that you know

850
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: if if of the time is wrong, the time is right,

851
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: we think so, I mean, it's not It's not like

852
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: Arson investigation, which we're gonna do one on one day,

853
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: where it's just totally made up. Like it does have

854
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: some veracity, but there's a lot of flaws with it

855
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: and the really dicey. They need to figure it out

856
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: because of that, So they need to go do that now.

857
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine anything worse than being misidentified

858
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: and serving two decades in prison for something you really

859
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: didn't do? No, I really can't. I mean I remember

860
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: how said I got when we did the Innocence Project.

861
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: It's just you hear these stories and then they get

862
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: out and they're like, man, here's there's four thousand bucks.

863
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: We feel pretty bad, right, go get yourself something nice.

864
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: Try to forget about all this, right. Yeah, did you

865
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 1: ever see that movie An Innocent Man with Tom Selick?

866
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: It's scared the Bejesus out of me. The same thing

867
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: happened to him when he was when he was he

868
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: was framed. Oh wait, that's high road to China. All right,

869
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: I got my stuff, makes it? No, that's quickly down

870
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: under that right? Uh? You got anything else? Nope? All right,

871
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: Well that's it for police lineups for now. We'll do

872
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: an update whenever they get it figured out. We did

873
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: one on police catches, right, Okay, is this it we've done? No?

874
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: We still got arson in the section. We got a

875
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: lot all right, um, yeah, okay, okay. If you want

876
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: to know more about police line ups then I don't know,

877
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: go hang around a police station. See if you can

878
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: stand in one, learn firsthand. Okay. Get a little sign

879
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: that says I will be your foil ten dollars. Uh.

880
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: And since I said ten dollars, it's time for listener Matt.

881
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this youngest fan is very cute email. Hey, guys,

882
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: love the podcast. You're doing it right? Uh, it's not

883
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: a Uh this email is not episode specific, but I

884
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: had to tell you about this. My husband and I

885
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: welcomed to our baby boy into the world a couple

886
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: of months ago, when I was pregnantly joked that the

887
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: baby would think that one of you was his dad

888
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: because he heard your voices so often. Ah, that's a

889
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: very funny joke in the family, you know, joke about

890
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: the paternity of your childhood. Uh. Now that he's here,

891
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: I've been playing music in the car instead of the podcast,

892
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: thinking music helps calm him. Well, one day he was

893
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: crying and crying in the car. I couldn't get him

894
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: to calm down. She was like, what's wrong with Doc?

895
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 1: And why is it doc and working? Uh. It couldn't

896
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: get him calmed down with any the usual tricks. So

897
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: I decided to heck with it. I'm gonna put on

898
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: the podcast and a kid you not. As soon as

899
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: you guys started talking, he stopped crying. My husband says

900
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: it was coincidence. Jealous, I say, stuff, you should know magic.

901
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: Now we're now we're back to always listening to you

902
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: guys in the car. Keep up with great work and

903
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: thanks for soothing my baby boy. And that is from

904
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: Sarah Strantz and our youngest fan, Frank from beautiful Mount Pleasant,

905
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 1: South Carolina. That's awesome. Thank you so much for that email. Frank,

906
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: go to sleep. Quiet now they named their baby after

907
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: our chair? Yeah right, that's pretty wouldn't that be amazing

908
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: if they actually did? Uh? And thank you also to

909
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: unnamed husband for being a good sport. Agreed. If you

910
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: want to send us agree email about how we're magic,

911
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: you can hang out with us on social media. Just

912
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 1: go to our website, Stuff you Should Know dot com.

913
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: And you can also send us an email to Stuff

914
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com. Yeah for more

915
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. VI is it

916
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com? H