WEBVTT - Ep. 160: Lust and Greed 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcasting in you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 vote bitten and in my case underwear listening past. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:25.480 can't predict anything. Um, I got a bone to pick 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.440 first off, because, uh, do you guys remember when we 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.280 were talking about the guy that, um, the guy that 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:38.840 had the blue fin tuna? Yeah? Right, and he uh 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:44.000 refreshed my memory this that caught it legally into the 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.720 woods doing something. I'm doing some horrible hosting. So we 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.680 got a couple of corrections about the blue fin tuna 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.440 that are interrupted. One clarification of one correction where you 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.520 guys misled me and miss and really misled listeners by 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.600 not knowing uh not knowing something. The story is how 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:06.319 the the the catch season on bluefin tuna had been 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.959 closed on the East Coast and a guy caught a 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.240 five hundred, four hundred there's different weights going around a 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.520 four hundred pound bluefin tuna. He thought, maybe I can 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.520 hide this giant fish and no one will know I 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.800 actually voted it because he could legally release it, right 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.000 like you could target it for clients, but you just 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:25.600 can't keep him. But he decided to keep thinking is 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.400 of real valuable. He thinks he's gonna go and take 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.440 it and sell it in a backdoor restaurant exchange, which 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.560 I guess happens quite a bit. Um he doesn't do it. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.679 One of the restaurant's reports him for trying to sell 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.280 this tuna. He panics, ties it to his truck and 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.240 drags it out into the woods and then gets all 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.479 these crazy fines and then talking about this, we're talking 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.440 about what is the value of a bluefin tuna? And 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.080 you boys, I can't remember which he was most guilty. 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.840 You two are involved in it, and Miles Nolty, who's 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:57.960 not here right now, was involved in it. And we're 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:03.000 talking about how some tuna are worth millions of dollars. Correct, 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.960 we looked it up on the internet. Yeah, but yeah, 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.840 the internet. Okay, no, oh, but a guy is gonna 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.400 now correct us. Okay, you check this out. Then check 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.920 this out where he's saying. He says, in reference to 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.320 the story of the poached and discarded bluefin tuna, you 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.360 misstated the value of blue fin tuna and the Japanese 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:26.600 fish auctions as one or three million dollars. And you 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.959 even mentioned it was the first of the year, right, Okay, 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.640 there's a there's a sort of ceremonial thing with the 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.200 first tuna. They take a nice tuna and sell the 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:40.920 first tuna of the year at auction, and it's like 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:45.240 a dick swinging contest where whoever is kind of sitting 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.000 on the fattest wall and it has the best business 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:54.200 going will do a symbolic purchase of the first tuna 0:02:54.520 --> 0:03:00.000 as a sort of media driver. But the same fish, 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.040 if it was the second tuna, would be eighty grand. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.600 It's the thing you do to be like. It's it's 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.400 like the opening of the sale. It's like the Texas 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.400 State Fair with the grand champion steer, and all the 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.480 oil companies tell me more. I don't know this, but 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:19.680 I like, I like, you have all your rural your 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:21.799 rural areas they have, you know, your four eight or 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.720 your state fairs, and so all these kids usually show 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.280 these animals and then when you get to the end, 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:29.200 they have the grand champion. You know, this is the 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.799 premium steer. Well, you go to a state like Texas well, 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.160 obviously there's a lot of oil money, and it happened 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.160 a lot over like North Dakota. Some of those guys 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.760 are paying you know, thousands of dollars, which those kids 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:40.560 is a ton of money. But I think it's the 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.840 same thing these steers go for, you know, one to 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.720 three thousand dollars for a beef, because it's the same thing. 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.760 It's like it's the grand champion. You know, you gotta 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.600 have it. So yeah, that does not so you gotta 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.600 get Yeah, I feel like getting that, man. I feel 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.040 I feel like we're like in special contact. They will 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.520 be sold for a great deal of money. But no, 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.160 here's the problem. Here's what you guys did. It was bad. 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.600 You were saying that the tuna is a tuna can 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.920 be worth that amount of money. So the guy didn't 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.320 pay a million dollars for it. But yes, but it 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.440 wasn't the value of the tuna. It was like a 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.440 it's a symbolic, ceremonial thing, has nothing to do with 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.040 the value of the tuna. Yeah. No, you're completely right, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.520 and thank you wrong for misrepresenting the like the average 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.640 value of a tuna. If one a year gets sold 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.640 that way in the Dick swing contest, then it's not 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:40.560 the value of the tuna. Yeah, if you're charging I 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:45.400 guess the whole saler that these dudes on the outer 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.440 banks there that are selling the tuna to They're not 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.880 going to get that that money. He's got nothing to 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:54.960 do with market. That's the interesting thing is doing some 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.000 trickle down economics to make sure the dude that caught 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.800 the fish winds up getting five grand or something. Yeah, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.880 let let's do introductions real quick. I wonder what a 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.280 backdoor deal at a restaurant don't get you though? This 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.960 guy that wrote this guy, Yeah, exactly, it'll gets you 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.960 a ten dollar fine. This guy that wrote in, one 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:15.680 of the guys that wrote in about this was very 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.160 close to this and knew the players involved and kind 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.520 of explained a little bit of backstory this tune. And 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.440 it seems as though there was some other boats around, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:31.200 and somehow this guy thought it's possible to to do 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.200 this without to deal with the fish of this size, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.480 without attracting attention, And it seems like he blundered in 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.520 a number of areas and people were aware of, like, hey, 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.440 that guy just drove by with a pound tuna hanging 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:51.560 off the end of his boat. Um, sethics Uh introduce yourself, Uh, 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.480 Seth Burgley. I don't know how much you might want 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.479 to say, but no, there's no what you're named Burgh's 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.640 no Burgley Burg No s Yeah, a lot of people 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.000 call me Burgs, but a lot of nicknames now wes 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.800 Um grew up northeastern Montana, farmed ranched up there, so 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.440 that's kind of my background of agger culture. Stared hunting 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.360 when I was about three years old, be begun and 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.600 sparrows weren't safe, and been doing it ever since. Um 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.520 what's northeast Montana, north of Brockton, so kind of between 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.640 plenty Wood and Wolf Point, kind of up in no 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.040 man's land. Dated a gale from plenty Wood one time. 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.360 Go ahead, wasn't your sister? You've got a sister, Well 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.600 I do, but she wasn't in plenty of Wood anyway. 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:32.960 Uh yeah. So we moved down to Billings when I 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:34.880 was in high school. My dad had some health issues 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:39.280 and uh culture to healthcare stuff. And started college there 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:40.960 and then got a scholarship to go to Ohio State 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.400 now on a shooting scholarship, so shot competitively there and 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.360 then the Army picked me up after that to go 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.400 shoot for them and spent a few years doing that 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.000 and moved back to Montana. I got involved in politics 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.839 a little bit on the state level, and state representative, 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.760 state representative representing the people of representing the good people 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.440 of Carbon County. So it's the area that basically from 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.920 just south of Laurel all the way to Red Lodge, 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.719 you know, Luther Roscoe area, and then south of the border. 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.960 How many constituents do you have? About ten thou So 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:13.080 it's funny. I was, I was just in d C. 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:14.920 And I was talking to a state representati from Virginia 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.680 and talking about you know, campaigns and constituents and that 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.480 sort of thing, and so I asked, I was like, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:21.520 what's a what's a campaign like for a state representative 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.440 in Virginia. He's like, oh, you know, like three or 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.280 four hundred thousand dollars And it's like, well, an expensive 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.720 one here is about forty So it's a little bit different. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.760 That's still a four bucks. That's still four bucks for 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.000 every content that's an expensive one. Yeah, the average is 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.280 probably about six ten, maybe six or ten. It was 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.560 about a buck for in an election You're you're looking 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.720 at like five d to thousand votes is swinging the Yeah, 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.800 a thousand votes is a big, big difference. I think 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.360 we have a high voter turnout in Yeah, it was 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.640 like sixty seven percent or something like that, and yeah, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:58.400 it's about I want to say what we have. Uh yeah, well, 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.320 getting registered vote is there was probably a hired turnout 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.640 than that. There's about sixty votes I think so, yeah, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:06.240 but it can be swung. A lot of the districts 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.400 are handful of votes, votes, forty votes some of them. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.240 Usually there's one or two in the state that come 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:12.880 down to five or eight votes and they do a 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.960 recount and oh he won by three. So and you're 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.520 saying that most like most state legislators are they have 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.880 another gig, like, oh, yeah, you can't make a living 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.360 at this. I mean they say we make eleven thirty 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.000 three an hour or whatever the state wage. But that's 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.600 eight hour days. So you know, when we're in session, 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.120 I don't know. I mean, I guess there's some days 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:34.800 we get out earlier. You have a half day that 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.000 you work, but generally, if you're involved, you've been around, 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.120 you're there at six six thirty every morning and you 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.240 often won't leave tilt eight nine o'clock. So if you 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.400 work six to six, that's kind of an average day, 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.839 so you're not really making that much money. Everybody has 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.679 a job. I was just gonna say, how many terms 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.920 have you done? This is my third term, so yep. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:57.800 And then you're only getting paid when you're in session. 0:08:57.880 --> 0:08:59.360 That's kind of a people think you're on like a 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.439 salary d it's you get paid every day that you're 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.120 working and then we get a per diem. But you're 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.160 moving up there and paying rent and buying food and stuff. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.920 So it's not really a money making gig. Do it 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.959 for the for your ideological reasons or to try and 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:16.160 help people out, so as a launchpad, right, some people 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.160 might I don't see that as my projection. I guess, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:24.800 like life, it's good when you're really There's when you 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.760 look at the makeup of the legislature. You get a 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.559 lot of retired people because they have time to do it. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.520 You get some younger people that kind of are have 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.080 time on their hands, or you know, independent business owners, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.000 guys that can do their own thing take some time off. 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.240 And you get lawyers because they can just shut the 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:39.959 practice down like all right, I'm not taking any I'm 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:41.720 not doing any work for four months and then they'll 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.959 come back. But it's kind of tough for you know, 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:45.640 if you're in the egg world, you know, there's a 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.840 lot of guys from you know, out in the Sticks 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.800 that are ranchers, are farmers, and farmers have a little 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:52.560 easier because they usually can't get in the field, especially 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.199 this year. They won't be until after we're out. But 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:55.960 a lot of guys are starting to ca right now, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.000 so their wives are at home, you know, having things out. 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.240 The neighbors are helping them out. So it's a tough 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.320 gig if you're kind of a working man, how much 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:08.240 of your job is balancing out all of Carbon County 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.760 versus Red Lodge. Like you got a lot of people 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.000 bitching about, like out of staters in Red Lodge and 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.760 second homes and yeah, it's it's more of the ideologies. 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.000 I think it's not. There's some really good people on 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.439 both sides. I mean, you get people that have lived 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.040 here for five generations can be you know, just as 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.000 one side or the other. Yeah, people in Red Lodge 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:28.240 can be if it's like, oh there, they got to 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.360 be from California and be super liberal, and it's like, why, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.120 I know, guys from California, they're like more conservative than 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.679 anybody else in the county. So it's it's not so 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.040 much like where you're from or where you live. It's 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.959 more about just kind of how you think about things, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.839 and people tend to group together. So it is, you know, 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.959 the county is a lot more agricultural, rural people have 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:47.959 been around for a while, a lot more farm you know, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.400 kind of production and of based, and Red Lodge is 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.120 a lot more of retirement. And then you've got the 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.480 ski hill, so you kind of get that aspect to, 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.360 you know, get more more people that just kind of 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.560 in and out, it feels like, to ski and hang out, 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.480 so you kind of get some of that too. So 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:07.520 it's definitely it's definitely. It totally is you know. That's 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.400 like I tell people, it's like, this is exactly like 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.520 if you took Montana and squished into one county. It's 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.640 like that's Carbon County because you've got kind of like this, 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.040 you know, everybody jokes like it's the hippie town. You know, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.480 all the people that live out there, and it's like, 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:19.439 you know, you know, the mountain town a little more 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.120 palatable for some people. I don't know, and but it's 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:23.640 like it's kind of like Missoula. You know, you've got 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.439 that kind of that type of group, that dynamic and 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.560 then you've got the two river valleys in Carbon County. 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.760 We have the Clark's Fork and Rock Creek, which is 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.040 kind of like the Missouri, and you know, the Yellowstone, 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.200 and then Southeastern County is all just sage brush nothing. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:37.920 It's like if you go to broad Us, it's like 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.199 people live out here. It's just nothing. And then there's oil. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.320 There's oil and southeastern part of the county. And then 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.000 we have a lot of cold to you know, Carbon 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:46.840 County they named it that because of the coal mine 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.640 there in Bear Creek, so you have some of that industry, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.319 and so it is. It really is kind of like 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.440 a little microcosma Montana. And then you got the mountains, 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:58.920 you know, the Western slopes and yeah, everything, a lot 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:04.120 of turkeys you have to drive to. You guys, got 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.920 many fox squirrels. Any fox squirrels in the district. Fox 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:13.160 squirrel they're definitely there. I know, no, I'm I'm looking 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.920 at my retirement home out there, and not for the 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.679 skin for the squirrels, damn it. Okay, and then uh so, 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.520 so Seth is with us, and then uh be honest 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:31.720 of course, Ben O'Brien, OKAYL four or six, Sam Lon Uh, dude, 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.240 rolled in real quick, Dude, rolled in. We're talking. We're 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.880 talking about chasing a little bit chapass, chafing. Ro In 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:42.360 He chafed when he swims. That doesn't doesn't seem in 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.200 salt water freshwater, saltwater, he says, a lot worse chafes 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.880 when he swims. Yeah, I can see that I can't 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.600 chase in salt water. Freshwater. Yeah, I mean you got 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.679 you got sand mixing around, and you know, just kind 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.439 of that abrasiveness of saltwater. I feel like, you know, 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.679 I've been ashing around snorkeling and cheese stuff and chafing, 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:07.000 not about the presence of moisture. Yeah, I don't know, man, 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.520 But how do we define like what causes chafe his skin? 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.439 It depends because you're saying it's a big man's problem 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.079 because there's a lot of contact. Yes, like my legs 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.680 don't brush. No, you know. So that's why most people 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.680 think of like when chafing, you think of chapass, because 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.560 everyone's like most people are going to have some skin 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.959 on skin contact and their gluteal crease. But uh, I 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.520 was reading the thing the up Michigan's Upper Peninsula where 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.080 I live very briefly. Uh, they're just getting walloped. There's 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.120 a dear biologist in the up saying, if things continue this, 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.760 this winner keeps humming along like it is. He's predicting 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.760 they will lose forty percent of their white tailed deer 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.559 this winter. That's wild. I had our local biolog just 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:55.720 told me the highline lost forty percent in some areas 0:13:55.800 --> 0:14:05.200 last year. Man, you think hunters killed here? Uh? Talked 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:09.640 about the tuna, big correction. I was talking about the 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.920 great poet Robert Service, and I mentioned like American poetry, 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.680 and boy, that got some Canadians riled up, he said, 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.679 A guy Rhode. He says, as a Canadian in a 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:23.400 British Columbian, I worry about our culture being overshadowed by 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.600 America and our attempts to maintain a distinct identity from 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.320 our southern neighbors. And he even spelt it that cute 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.720 Canadian way. You just put that you in there for emphasis. 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.800 He was like real worked up about misidentifying Bob Service, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.920 but that he was born in England, so let's oh, 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.560 so they can't even claim to school in Scotland. He 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.880 moved to Scotland he was five. It was born in England. 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.920 So sorry, sorry, bro, how don't need to hear from 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.520 any Scotsman. Spend so much time in the Yukon too, 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.120 and you know, if you're in the Yukon, you definitely 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.760 differentiate yourself from those folks down in British Columbia. So 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.200 I guess I think him as an American poet because 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.120 I feel like that's where his audiences. Yeah, and it's English. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.400 He's a British Canadian American poet. And then he and 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.320 we just kind of appropriate anything. Yeah, you just pick, 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.280 like if it's something in Cannon and you like it, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.080 you just act like it's American and then it is. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.680 I think he's spent like forty years, like the last 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:23.600 forty years of his life in Europe, in London, Paris. 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:29.000 Bob Service, propert service. Yeah, I call Robert Frost Bob Frost, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.040 and I call Robert Service Bob Services. I think it 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.320 makes more. You know, you know the poems of Bob Frost, right, 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:40.200 like that that thing about building fences. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.480 he was the he was an American poet. Laureatette Bob Frost. 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:46.560 He's got that poem where the two dudes are like 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.040 they spend all their time building a fence between their properties, 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.520 like good fences make good neighbors and like an old 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.120 stone Savage and that you realize all they care about 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.520 is like very carefully delineating the line between their properties, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.440 and that's like what they dedicate their lives too. I 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:05.800 will admit that I definitely, I definitely disserviced Robert Service, 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.560 uh because my impression of him. Uh. So I bought 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.480 a book of collected works from the air little airport 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.920 shack in King sam And Alaska. They sell Robert Service books. Yeah, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.240 because they want They're like, oh, I think they wanted 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.480 everybody that likes to like lay claim just like you're 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.440 saying that you're down on you're saying you don't like 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:34.040 his poetry because it all rhymes. No, no, no, this 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.280 was I just bought his book while I was waiting 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.920 on our plan out to the peninsula to go hunt 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.800 brown bears. And it was just like winter would not 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.160 leave and spent a ton of the trip, you know, 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.800 shoulder to shoulder with three other dudes in a tent. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.320 That sounds like a Bob Service poem. Oh yeah, And 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.640 so I was super into Robert Service and just but 0:16:55.760 --> 0:17:01.400 I had like reading that book front back twelve different 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.200 times on that trip, I'd kind of come to the 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:08.520 conclusion that there's no way this guy got stationed in 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.639 the Yukon because he was a cracker jack banker, you know. 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.440 I figured that he was put out there because he 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.639 kind of had like some drug or alcohol problems. And 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.639 then you know, all of his poems talking about like 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.119 the working class. Um, it just kind of got ingrained 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.720 in my brain that this guy probably did what a 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:34.080 lot of poets and writers do is die bad death 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:39.280 somewhere destitute, drunk under some bridge exactly. But that's not 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:44.000 the case at all. Turned out be quite quite a 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.000 straight arrow. Yeah, And I didn't didn't learn that until 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.119 just recently. So it made some money off. He was 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:55.639 the most wealthy writer in Paris at one time, especially 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:01.280 died drunk under a bridge. A less interesting this way, 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.760 right if you would. Nowadays are too lazy to rhyme 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.800 all their poems, and that guy had that work ethic 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.000 that needs to go into like rhyming that stuff out 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.879 to the bitter end, just get not only like he 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.320 had a pretty sizable fortune going and then um he 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.640 couldn't when World War one broke out he couldn't join 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.440 up because of his physical condition, so he joined the 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:26.240 Red Cross and uh yeah, litter bearer and one a 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.240 bunch of medals. He sounds like too good a dude 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.680 to be a poet, Like the poet should be under 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.879 a bridge drum screaming at people. Yeah, juice, were did 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.960 you just use the word litter bear? Yeah? Have we 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:45.520 talked about um to the movie Tombstone? Oh not for 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.280 a long time, but I know where you're going with that. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.440 The yeah, huckle bear so real quick, and I gotta 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.040 get onto some of the stuff we're talking about that 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.200 we're talking about shooting with South. So it's okay. I 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:00.720 don't know if it's true. I haven't looked into this, 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:05.080 but I've heard this. Everyone knows that that it's in Tombstone, right. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.000 The dude Aceman from Top Gun and he plays uh 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:13.960 Bell kim Kilmer. Bel Kimbers. Also, I'll point out very 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:20.040 good in heat Michael Man movie. So Bell Kimber says 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.120 to a feller, I think he's fixing to shoot him maybe, 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:28.240 or someone's fixing to shoot someone. Kilmer says, I'll be 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.200 your He's like, do it shoot me or whatever. Pull 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:37.359 your gun. I'll be your huckleberry. Okay, you know what 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.000 the hell is that mean? No one knows what that means. 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.680 Someone was telling me, and listeners will write it and 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.879 hopefully clarify this point. Someone's telling me that he messes 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.560 that he messed the line up, or someone the writer's 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.679 messed it up, or something I messed up. The expression 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.160 is he's like, go ahead, you know, pull your gun. 0:19:55.359 --> 0:20:00.399 I will be your huckle bearer, which would be a 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:06.280 term for he's saying, try it. I'll be your pall bearer. Yes, not, 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:11.000 I'll be your huckleberry. Have you watched it like ten 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:12.760 times in a row to make sure that he actually 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:17.640 does say it, like five five times, I'm your huckleberry, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:28.800 Johnny Ringo. Someone just I shouldn't have brought it up. 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:30.920 Bring up. You should never bring up stuff you don't 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.720 know what you're talking about. He was too hot strung, 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:38.920 real quick, real quick, um quick question for you. Guy 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.520 writes in he's got I can't really understand it. He's 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.800 got a bow that it maxes out at sixty pounds, 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.000 and he's like, man, I want to go elk Hunton. 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.000 Can I am I your responsible to lhunt with my 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:55.880 sixty pound bow. I guessing compound? Yeah, absolutely not, absolutely 0:20:55.920 --> 0:21:02.399 not not not dude, my long total. Yeah, yeah, just 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.600 understand what your weapon can do. That's all all matter. 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.800 Get close, don't be bombing him at sixty yards. Sixty 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.159 pound compounds like an eighty pound long bow. I mean, 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:16.639 how many guys hunt with eighty pound longbows? Has a 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.240 heavy air? Was heavy air? You should be shooting heavy 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.080 air with the sixty pound bow, six blade broad head 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.000 and a heavy arrow. Go to town. I'm not a 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:28.440 humongous man. Um, I'm not a longest man, but I 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.000 pulled quite a bit more than that. That's what I 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.280 was just curious. But I don't know what his circumstances. 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:38.360 How what are you pulling? I shoot seventy yeah, uh okay. 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.800 Guy rode in from the military and he says, you 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.480 guys are talking about whether you used when you're trying 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.840 to explain to someone where something is. So you're you're 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.200 looking out on the landscape and you're like, are you 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:51.680 see a deer? And you're trying to explain where the 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.320 deer is? And we were talking about whether you should 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:58.720 that's described as talking someone into something or talking someone 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:03.560 onto something. He says military feller. He says, it seems 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:07.840 like the hegemony. His words settled down the former. Now 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:12.240 he's a US Air Force Joint Terminal Attack Controller. J 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.320 our job is to call in air to ground fire 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:22.160 in support of ground forces. They damn sure talk people 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:30.200 on to something. They do not talk someone into something. Um, 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.720 he has more call in fire though. You don't call 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.000 on fire. So you're calling him onto it. But you 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.359 call in fire. So that's a good point, he says. 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:41.520 Assuming every one of us has more or less the 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.000 same knowledge base, what really sets a good j tech 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:47.200 from a great one is our ability to get aircraft 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.760 overhead and talk there sold to straws. You know, are 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.240 you following all this? Talk their soda straw sensor onto 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:58.440 a target expeditiously and facilitate fire. The term we use 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:02.840 is talk on, because you are verbally moving the pilot's 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.360 eyes from the known to the unknown. We work big 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:10.639 too small. Also, whichever direction you are facing is twelve 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:14.480 o'clock as opposed to changing it. Every time you talk 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:16.960 on to a known spot, that part I don't understand. 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.920 So you find your fixed point. It's like on a hillside, 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:23.280 you all right, the big tree everybody got the big tree. Alright, 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.399 the deer's you know, twelve o'clock, So you are the 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:28.399 known point because he knows where you are, so that 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:30.480 that's what I was wandering. He knows where the person is. 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:34.040 So then you're designating off of all right, my twelve o'clock, 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.119 because otherwise it's changing no matter where he is, and 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.600 he always knows where the guy's facing. Now here's the 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.200 hottest laser designator. Here's the hottest j tech tip they're 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.760 not going to adopt from now on. We're talking about 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:47.359 using as a unit of measures. So let's say you 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:48.800 have a thing. Let's say that happens to be a 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.320 deer by a school bus, and everybody can agree like 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.280 that's a school bus comment scenario. Yeah, you'd be like, um, 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:59.400 trying to explain distance. What they do is you pick 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.359 something out on the landscape and make that a unit 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.960 a distance unit. So let's say you can agree on 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:11.680 a alone cedar tree on a ridge top and the 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.200 deers somewhere off to the right. You take the width 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.760 of that known cedar tree and that becomes your unit 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.760 of measurement. That'd be a shitty one because it'd be 0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:23.760 very small so also you'll be talking about well fifty okay, 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:27.520 but let's say you're talking sure, but whatever he's just saying, like, 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:30.800 pick a known thing and make unit distance units often 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.040 known thing. So if let's say it's a let's say 0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:35.400 the deer is pretty close, someone can't see you, Like, okay, 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:39.840 that's our unit of measurement. Yes, three, go three of 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.800 those over. Rather being like a little bit a teeny ways, 0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:48.720 D're always trying to do just like at what point 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.040 your yards are mine? We're always like like twenty yards. 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:52.840 But I don't know how the hell many you could 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:54.159 go with there and wind up it's ten yards of 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:56.719 sixty yards. Make a unit of measurement and march their 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:58.600 eyes on that unit of measurement. I've done it with 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.000 clouds before. Is that stupid? Yeah? You see that big 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:05.560 moving cloud just turned into a mustache or go to 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:08.959 the right, go to the right of the mustache. Um 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:11.680 on the subject, name and guns. A little bit of 0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:15.879 feedback from people, the guys saying that you can't name you. 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:18.040 One guy says that he has a rifle and he 0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:19.960 gave it a name, and he feels okay with it 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.080 because he has a six five by sixty eight or 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.200 six five by sixty eight, which then he knows a gun. 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:29.840 I've six five by sixty eight, That's what he says. 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.240 And he even says that he times since it's six 0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:37.640 five x sixty eight, he times it out, it comes 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:39.840 out to four forty two, so he calls it the 0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:43.119 four forty two. Another guy was saying, you can't the 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:47.240 same way you can't give yourself a nickname. If you're 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:49.199 gonna nickname a gun, it can only be given by 0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:51.480 other people who name the gun. The same way you 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:55.440 can't give yourself a nickname somewhat legitimate. Yeah, his buddy 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.359 has a gun. He keeps too much oil on it, 0:25:57.720 --> 0:25:59.560 and one time he dropped a duck hunting and an 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:02.080 oil that came off it, and so they call his 0:26:02.119 --> 0:26:06.800 shotgun the Valdies. I guess that guy. That's that guy. 0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:10.600 He's got a dog and who named the dog. This 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:12.680 is the last, the last note I'm ever gonna give 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:15.679 about cheese kurds or top so like cheese curds. When 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:17.360 you buy on they squeak. If you've been to Wisconsin, 0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:19.240 you know about this. It's the only thing I like 0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:22.040 about Wisconsin, except for Doug during that's a joke. But 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:25.199 cheese curds, like when you buy them, they get squeaky. 0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:26.719 Then you leave them laying around and they lose your 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:29.720 squeak and doug during it feels as though it's like 0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:32.720 a sin against God and man, he's like, why would 0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:34.960 you ever let your courage sit around so long that 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:37.080 they lose your their squeaking, Like if you let him 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:39.520 sit that long, you don't deserve to have squeaky kurds. 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:42.320 And these boys in Elroy, Wisconsin were telling us that 0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:44.520 you leave him on the dashboard your truck and the sun, 0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:47.760 they'll re squeak. Someone was telling us that if you 0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:50.760 microwave them, they'll get squeaky again. This guy is saying, 0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:54.119 the absolute best way to revive your neglected cheese kurds 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:56.960 is to place them into a colander and run a 0:26:57.000 --> 0:27:00.600 hot water over them for about a minute. They will 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:03.400 be not just as good, he says, and he makes 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:08.520 a parenthetical if not better, then right when they came 0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:14.240 out of the vat. Okay, I'll be trying that because 0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:18.080 Wisconsin Turkey seasons coming up. Um can I can? I 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:21.440 go ahead? It's not gonna start asking seth questions. I 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:23.800 got one that might be a good way to lead 0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:27.200 into can you can you pivot off it? Yeah, it 0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:29.560 might be able to. I got to and I'll see 0:27:29.560 --> 0:27:31.200 if we can do this first one quickly. The dude 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:33.679 wrote in this is interesting because it's kind of it's 0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:37.520 kind of about shooting, but he's got a predicament that 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.080 he's found himself in twice. I want you guys all 0:27:40.119 --> 0:27:42.280 weigh in and see if what you guys are doing 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:47.080 this situation. He went back country'll hunting in Colorados, buddy, 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:50.920 And on the third year they went back three times. 0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:53.760 They finally got into a bowl on the last day, 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:57.320 Um it was and they trade days on who gets 0:27:57.359 --> 0:27:59.800 to be the shooter and who's calling right, So it 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:03.280 his day to shoot. Bull comes in, He's gonna have 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:06.560 a perfect shot. Back up, What about the three years 0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:10.280 they've been Yeah, they've been hunting three years. I haven't 0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:12.800 got a shot yet, I haven't killed nothing. Now on 0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:15.440 the third year, last day, it's his it's his day 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:19.440 to shoot, and Bull steps out and right as he's 0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:22.760 getting ready to shoot, he hears another bow go off. 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.800 He sees the arrows smoked this bull, and he ends 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:28.480 up still punching his trigger. Because it's just like he's like, whoa, 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:31.399 what the and and and shoots an arrow to his 0:28:31.640 --> 0:28:34.680 arrow hits in the paunch. Bull goes like thirty yards, 0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:39.640 tips over and dies, ends up being a nice six um. 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:44.440 And he's like, dude, thought it was my day to shoot, right, 0:28:44.680 --> 0:28:47.680 And he's like, oh really I thought it was mine, 0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:52.920 Like sorry, and so hold on a second, hold on 0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:59.480 a second. This fight, the two guys are hunting together. Yea, 0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:02.880 they're calling a bowl and he's saying that both of 0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:07.680 them simul like virtue like almost simultaneously launch arrows, both 0:29:07.800 --> 0:29:13.000 hit the one that seems to me can you look 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:14.520 at and be like, are you oh you're drawn your 0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:16.840 bows drawn? Are they with each other or are they 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:18.760 in different spots? Because if they could see each other, 0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:21.560 it's not like a subtle thing you're doing there. Typically 0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:24.400 set up is like twenty to fifty yards spread out, 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:28.160 one guy in front, one guy typically, but I mean 0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:30.760 I've also called in bulls standing right next to the 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:33.680 dude and been whispering in his ears when to draw 0:29:33.720 --> 0:29:36.400 a bow. So yeah, I don't know, thick timber. He 0:29:36.400 --> 0:29:38.440 could have been ten yards away and definitely been could 0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:40.479 have drawn and been doing jumping Jackson. The other guy 0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:45.760 wouldn't have to see what was so anyways, Uh, they 0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:49.680 split the meat like it always happens, and uh they 0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:52.600 can decide on who should get the antlers. The dude 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:55.040 who was supposed to be shooting, Yeah, he got a 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:58.040 bad hit. He got a bad hip. I have not killed. 0:29:58.080 --> 0:29:59.720 He blamed his bad hit on the fact that the 0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:02.400 other guys shot. That's what I was thinking right now. 0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:06.800 They're going when they're they alternate years, they swap it 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:12.240 out each other's houses. It seems like two nice guys, right, Yeah, 0:30:13.320 --> 0:30:14.680 I know a lot of guys that would not be 0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:16.560 so nice. I saw it down in the middle, and 0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:18.400 does he each have an antlic That's what I'm saying. 0:30:20.760 --> 0:30:21.920 I didn't you know what, you know what he might 0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:23.840 not be realizing you can do when you saw something 0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:26.920 in half. He probably don't realize how you're supposed to 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:29.320 put that to your wall would be pretty bitch in 0:30:29.440 --> 0:30:33.760 his half. Learn don't put it aiming out, you cut 0:30:33.800 --> 0:30:35.800 it down the school. Did they mounit or just have 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:39.400 the school? I didn't say they mounited. I don't know 0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:41.520 what they're supposed to do. No one wants to saw 0:30:41.560 --> 0:30:45.520 it wants, and that's just the old school. If it's 0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:48.040 the old school, where he's looking where the mount is 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.160 a shoulder mountain looking dead nuts forward, so you can 0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:52.720 put it right on the wall, so then you can 0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:55.920 split it, turned it sideways and plastered against the wall. 0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:59.880 That actually, if it's the school, you cut it and 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.840 don't have him looking out. You have him plastered against 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:05.760 the wall, which looks very cool. Yeah, and then you're 0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:09.120 like kind of artistic, maybe an innovator. Your wife's gonna 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:11.200 like it to get a house with the same floor 0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:14.920 plan too. That'd be help that'd be helpful. We were 0:31:14.960 --> 0:31:17.680 going to do that. One time. We were gonna band 0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:20.200 saw a buck down the middle because it kind of 0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:22.480 kind of stepped out in a narrow opening, and a 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:25.040 buddy and I were ten yards apart and just both 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:29.120 pulled up and fired both hit it. And what happened? 0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:31.680 Who got to keep it? Uh? We we split the meat, 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:34.480 brought it back um, and we talked about it, all 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:35.880 sorts of stuff we were going to do. And the 0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:37.760 school was lying around for a while, and I did 0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:40.200 the European mount and it was sitting in my house 0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:42.720 and who tagged it? Kept senting I tagged it. I 0:31:42.800 --> 0:31:47.120 feel like whoever tags it, but we were going to 0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:50.360 cut that he never he never asked for it, never 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:52.600 asked for it back and kind of think got out 0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:54.640 of hunting and he kind of blocked his number. But like, 0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:57.400 I st't know, but whoever tagged it took a hit, right, 0:31:57.440 --> 0:31:59.920 You don't know that they're taking that they're filling the 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:03.520 tag for the team. You took the question to a 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:05.400 game warden. To game warden, would wanted to go to 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:07.760 who tagged it? And if you did a curvy shoulder 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.640 a mount with the deer's looking at curvy and then 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:13.320 you split it dead nuts down the spine and split 0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:15.840 the thing, then you have a curvy wall, which is tricky. Yeah, 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:20.000 you have to in a castle. Yeah, or they have 0:32:20.160 --> 0:32:24.880 the planetarium or or they have the parapet um seth. 0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:27.880 You were telling me, so you kind of walked us 0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:31.080 through the thing of how you became a competitive shooter. Um, 0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:34.160 how First I want to ask you another question. I 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:35.880 want to get into how this all happens, how a 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.800 fellow gets into this. But you were telling me that 0:32:40.080 --> 0:32:43.360 that you used to shoot pistols competitively, right, So that's 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:44.840 why I did o how to stay with pistol. And 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:47.200 you're saying that some guys set the trigger so light 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:50.680 that if you pointed towards the sky and shake it, 0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:55.480 it goes off. Yeah, so that's an event that they 0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:59.719 actually just removed from the Olympics. But it's called shooting 0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:03.120 this not for that reason. For that reason, it's called 0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:05.760 where you just run around. So they're some of those 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:08.280 guys are running like fifty to seventy Graham triggers on 0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:11.680 those things. It's called it's called free pistol, and so 0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:14.440 it sounds super dangerous, but the reality is is that 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.200 you've got it right. You've got your pistol pointed downrange 0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:20.360 and you it's most of them are some sort of 0:33:20.400 --> 0:33:23.959 falling block, you know, So you're one explain folks. So it's, uh, 0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:26.520 it's kind of like the Ruger number ones if you've 0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:28.360 ever seen those. You've got a little switch on the 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:30.720 bottom where you just flicking open, it drops a block down, 0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:33.560 You put the bullet in, your close it back up, 0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:35.400 the block comes up and locks it in. So it's 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:38.920 kind of a like a block mechanism behind the chamber, 0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:41.400 and that's how most of them works. I'm sort of 0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:43.280 falling block for the single shot, so it's twenty two. 0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:45.800 You put your round in, lock it, and then you're 0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:49.000 aiming down your lane and there's usually you know, they 0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:51.080 have wind breaks or something. So you've got six or 0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:53.920 eight shooters and you know, maybe four that are wide, 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:56.080 and then you've got your targets outdoor you shoot it's 0:33:56.080 --> 0:34:00.680 fifty meters away. Yeah, so you kind of damn hard 0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:03.400 with the pistol. Yeah, and it's about a to just 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.400 under two inch bowls eye at fifty so it's I 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:08.799 mean it's smaller in a coffee cup. Lad, So they're 0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:12.080 two small. So if you come up and you were 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:14.160 to accidentally, you know, touch this thing off, that's a 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:16.799 zero and it's ten ten nine eight out is how 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:18.919 it scored. So you dropped ten points on one shot 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:20.920 and you gotta count, I mean you count it, so 0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:25.719 that's ten points down. No, it's well, it's international international 0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:27.880 pistol style, so it's Olympic they shoot it all over 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:30.760 the world Cups. And did you ever shoot that competition? 0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:34.600 Which one free? The more talk about yep, yep free 0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:36.239 was one of my events in college that I shot. 0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:39.240 So raising a pistol and shooting something that's two inches 0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:42.040 in diameter at fifty yards, So we shot a lot 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:44.839 of indoor. Your fifty foot indoor targets about the size 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:47.680 of a dime for your ten ring, how many shots 0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:49.919 in a roll can you put in there? The best 0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.400 I've ever done is like eleven I think out of 0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:56.279 sixty in a row um for a full match in 0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:59.480 the twenties somewhere. The key with three pistol is not 0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:02.239 screwing up and shooting seventh and eight. So if you 0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:03.840 shoot a bunch of tens, if you can hold the 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.439 nine ring, that's like the world's best shooters are pretty 0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:08.759 much holding nine ring with a lot of tens, and 0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:11.879 your nine rings at fifty about I don't know, four 0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:15.319 inches probably, So it's about keeping a group. And now 0:35:15.360 --> 0:35:17.560 they've changed some of that. They went away from if 0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:20.440 you touch the ring it scores higher to now they 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:21.920 do a lot of it on a decimal. So if 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:24.480 you shoot a center center, it's ten point nine, and 0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:26.000 if you shoot just touch on the edge of it, 0:35:26.040 --> 0:35:27.680 it's a ten point zero, and if you go just 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:30.120 outside it's a nine point nine. So rather than going 0:35:30.800 --> 0:35:32.640 you know guys that can shoot super deep shots and 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:35.400 then throwing eight, you're going to score better than now 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:37.279 because it's all just decimals, so it's like how close 0:35:37.320 --> 0:35:38.920 can you keep them to the middle, So it's a 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:41.279 little bit more fair, I guess that way. Why did 0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:43.319 the Olympics get rid of this kind of thing, Well, 0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:45.040 a lot of it is. It's not Some of them 0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:46.759 aren't super fun to watch. I mean, this is like 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:49.600 a marathon of shooting. So you're shooting at fifty it's 0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:53.360 sixty shots in two hours, so it's super long. And 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:55.239 a lot of it has to do with they've kind 0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:59.000 of are going away from sports that aren't men and 0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:01.080 women together shoot. So you go to some of the 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:04.760 rifle events, there's a lot more crossover. You're wearing jackets 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:07.440 and you're shooting in a more controlled environment and like 0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:10.120 some of the ladies, I'll shoot the guys, whereas free 0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:13.960 pistol is a more of a there's a lot more 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.239 physical involved. You don't get any real supports, you're not 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:18.880 wearing you know, jackets or pants or anything to make 0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:24.360 your position better. Canvas yea canvas, like a super thick canvas, 0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:26.000 so you get locked in there and you literally or 0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:29.200 can't even move, so it's super stable so they're kind 0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:32.440 of going away from sports that can't be UM both genders, 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:35.680 I guess, and it's not super exciting to watch, I guess. 0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:38.160 So so what are the other shooting sports that are 0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:41.080 in the Olympics? UM live shotgun. That's a big one 0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:42.759 in the shotgun because you know, you go to the 0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:44.759 Middle Eastern some of those countries and shotguns a huge, 0:36:44.840 --> 0:36:46.200 huge deal. It's a big money sport in a lot 0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:49.160 of places. They do air pistol still, so air pistol, 0:36:49.640 --> 0:36:52.640 air rifle, and then small bowl rifle, and then they 0:36:52.680 --> 0:36:54.640 still do rapid fire pistol, which is a twenty two 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:56.920 event where you've got five big bulls eyes, which is 0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:58.839 what I shot when I went to the Army. They're 0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:02.080 just big black bulls eyes at twenty five and your 0:37:02.120 --> 0:37:03.920 tend rings pretty big, it's like three or three and 0:37:03.920 --> 0:37:06.880 a half inches, and that's a more dynamics. So you 0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:08.840 start with your gun at a forty five down and 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:11.279 they've got lights or turning targets. Most of the upper 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:13.080 class ones are lights and when the light goes off, 0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:15.319 you gotta come up and one, two, five shoot your 0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:17.640 shots and they do it eight seconds for your you 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:19.960 do two series of eight second, two, series of six second, two, 0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:22.000 series of four seconds. I've watched that before and it's 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:25.160 not boring at least, it's pretty cool. And they've changed 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:27.240 it for the finals to where rather than being scoring, 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:29.440 if you're a nine point five, you get a hit. 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:31.359 Nine point five are better you get a hit. If 0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:34.360 you're nine point four or lowers, it's a miss. So 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:35.960 when you come up, you just one to three and 0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:37.840 then they just, oh, this guy got four hits. So 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:39.560 people can just look at that. It's really easy to oh, 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:41.359 he shot a nine point nine. It's like, I don't 0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:42.920 know what that means. What's a nine point nine or 0:37:43.040 --> 0:37:46.239 ten point two. I really enjoy watching the biathlon. Yeah, 0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:48.560 that's that's got to be my favorite at Olympics. That's 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:49.920 kind of the only one that I think people know 0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:51.800 is in the Olympics, right, the other ones that's like 0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:55.680 the rest of them in summer. Yeah, yeah, not when 0:37:55.680 --> 0:38:00.399 they're doing Olympic Games. Summer biathlon the own the winter 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:04.279 shooting sport, UM, I believe, so I don't think they 0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:06.480 have any strict shooting sports. I think it's just the 0:38:06.520 --> 0:38:10.080 ski and ski and shoot. What countries are the best shooters? Um? 0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:16.000 America is decent. It depends like shotgun, Like we're Vinca 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:18.560 Hancock is. He's won gold medals that just about every 0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:20.640 Olympics that he's went to. So we've got some really 0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:24.040 really solid shock. The most metal Olympians are shooters, right, 0:38:24.600 --> 0:38:26.680 A lot of them well besides you know, swimmers, but 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:33.200 um yeah, the so they've got shotguns. Good for US. 0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:36.759 I'd say the big ones are UM, China is usually 0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:39.600 pretty good, South Korea, some of those the Asian countries 0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:41.680 put a lot of effort into it. Russia has a 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:45.920 really long standing tradition of shooting um super well, and 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:48.520 that kind of depends rapid fire. There's some Germans that 0:38:48.560 --> 0:38:52.000 shoot really really well on rapid fire free pistol. It's 0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:53.920 kind of a mix. There's like you know, kind of 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:55.799 the bigger countries. A lot of the European countries are 0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:57.759 really big indusries. So the people that just generally kick 0:38:57.840 --> 0:39:02.480 ass at the Olympics. The US Russia like shooting pretty much, 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:05.960 not like weird outliers, um not really shotguns kind of 0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:08.839 one because you get like you know, azerber John has 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:10.719 a shotgun shooter that comes out and it's like doing 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:13.520 really well. You know some random is there a wing 0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:16.920 shooting culture in the Arab world? Um, Like, I know 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:19.320 there's big into falconry. I don't know, you know, I 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:22.400 haven't really paid that much attention to it, but I know, um, 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:23.759 when I was on the army team, they had a 0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:25.720 shotgun team and those guys would go over and shoot, 0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:27.359 and I guess some of the places they go are 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:31.839 just super posh, you know, marble trap houses and all 0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:35.840 sorts of craziness. Yeah, and talking about hunting, you know, 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:37.839 I don't know if this is like the sporting side, 0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:39.880 but one of the things that they that's big in 0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:41.920 the shotgun kind of almost like the underground, is they 0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:44.040 do pigeon shoots. And so what they do is they 0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:46.080 have a box with a spring in it, and then 0:39:46.080 --> 0:39:48.280 they have a ring at like, you know, say forty 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:50.880 fifty yards across. I think it's smaller than that actually, 0:39:50.880 --> 0:39:52.920 and it's got like a four inch fence and so 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:55.040 they've got this ring around it. So you sit back 0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:58.600 at certain distances and they basically pushed the button and 0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:00.600 it springs this pigeon out there can why, and then 0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:02.680 you got to shoot the pigeon. If it falls inside 0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.080 the ring, you get the point and if it falls 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:07.040 outside of the ring, then you don't. That's not an 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:08.880 Olympic game though, no, no, no, this is just I 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:11.000 don't see that, you know, popular in America. I will 0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:14.359 have admit to having done that before, and it's big money. 0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:18.200 But they still do tower shoots. AlOH yeah, some kid 0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.399 climbs up in the tower and starts throws, starts throwing 0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:23.160 peasants over the ring. I did it in the Dominican 0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:25.920 Republic and there was five boxes, right you say, pull 0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:30.759 and Stig street pigeon comes flying out of the one 0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:33.160 of the five boxes and launches them. It launches them out, 0:40:33.200 --> 0:40:36.400 It springs them out because they they're captives, so they 0:40:36.680 --> 0:40:38.360 you know, pin their wings and they put them in 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:40.800 the box, unpin them and they springs them out and 0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:42.520 you shoot them if they fall. But before they get 0:40:42.560 --> 0:40:44.360 over the fence, you get a point. What's the diameter 0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:47.719 of the of the fence? Well, heat, No, it's not 0:40:47.840 --> 0:40:49.720 I've only ever done that one time and I decided 0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:52.000 that I probably won't do that again. You know, you 0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:54.000 know how people never done it. But it's big money. 0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:57.880 I mean, people in the towers money on different shooters 0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:00.279 and you can buy shooters and I'll cut us find 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:02.920 it's I mean, people are flying in on lear jets 0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:06.120 to shoot these things, do you Honestand we talk about 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:09.960 turkey shoots like when I was a kid, I grew 0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:13.600 up by a gun club, a private gun twenty gun club. Um, 0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:16.560 and if I'm not mistaken, man, actually I need to 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:18.520 I need to call some folks back home and ask 0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:20.840 me if I'm not mistaken. They when I was a 0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:25.319 little little kid, they would dig a ditch and put 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:32.440 turkeys in the ditch with just their head sticking out right. Yes, okay, 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:34.480 And if you hit the turkey, you got to keep 0:41:34.520 --> 0:41:36.120 it and bring it home and cook it for Thanksgiving. 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:38.840 And it was a long ways out. It was like 0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:40.160 remember it was like I feel like it was like 0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:42.560 you had to use the twenty two and the turkeys 0:41:42.600 --> 0:41:44.640 were way the hell out and you could just see 0:41:44.640 --> 0:41:47.200 their heads behind a berm And if you could hit 0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:49.920 the turkey, that's your turkey. Do you feel like that's 0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:53.160 the origination of the term turkey. I don't think I'm 0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:54.600 I don't think I'm making this up. Put him in 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:58.640 a box. Yeah, the old school like these by the 0:41:58.719 --> 0:42:01.680 time when I was a kid, shooting was you shot 0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:03.640 a target and then you got a frozen turkey if 0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:08.160 you want, I think that was a PC version. It's 0:42:08.200 --> 0:42:12.320 like competition. Yeah. Yeah. I did some work for my 0:42:12.400 --> 0:42:16.239 buddy Randy Bam at a turkey slaughter facility. And if 0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:18.319 I was if you put me in a turkey, if 0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:21.720 you made me a turkey and I had and you said, okay, 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:28.759 you're thanksgivings quickly approaching. Um. You can go to Bill Maher, 0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:32.040 the turkey slaughter facility that we did some working and 0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:35.040 you'll die there. Or you can go to twin a 0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:37.040 gun club and die there. I would go to twin 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:40.240 a gun club to die. Can we can we clarify 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:42.880 that Bill Maher not like the comedian guy. He doesn't know. 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:46.800 Oh no, it's like b I L hyphen M A R. 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:55.120 I think, look at these guys that up, these guys slaughter. 0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:57.640 I think when they're gearing up, I feel like they're 0:42:57.680 --> 0:42:59.880 slaughtering twenty thousand turkeys in a day or something like 0:42:59.920 --> 0:43:02.560 the or some insane number. And it's like a dude, 0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:06.480 it's a turkey. Turkeys runner un Turkeys would get out 0:43:06.480 --> 0:43:09.440 of the trucks and get away and once they hit 0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:12.080 the ground because they're all in a controlled environment. So 0:43:12.320 --> 0:43:15.120 we had all we had all the materials, like Ronnie 0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:17.560 eas Millwright, and we we'd have our materials in the 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:20.160 parking lot and you'd come in the morning and you'd 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:22.879 find turkeys hiding out in the parking lot in our 0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:26.000 material like because they'd get out of the truck and 0:43:26.040 --> 0:43:27.640 once they got the truck, they couldn't massle them. And 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:29.520 so the turkeys go try to find a place to hide, 0:43:29.760 --> 0:43:32.880 and guys that work with catch those turkeys, bring them home. 0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:35.200 And remember this guy Rick, he made a little cage 0:43:35.239 --> 0:43:36.960 at home. It would take the turkeys he caught out 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:38.480 the parking lot and put him in the cage and 0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:41.520 fatten them up in the cage and make smoke turkeys 0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:45.160 out of him. Good old day. If it's if it's 0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:47.880 more PC. If it's more then it's it's not even 0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:50.520 political cracktics whatever. If it's if it's regarded as more 0:43:50.640 --> 0:43:53.680 ethical to have a guy hit a target and give 0:43:53.760 --> 0:43:56.640 him a frozen turkey, I I just challenge that. I'm 0:43:56.680 --> 0:43:58.520 not I have no opinion on the matter, but I 0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:01.440 just my coming up. It had changed right, it was 0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:03.360 a turkey shoot, like I were on the turkey shoot 0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:05.000 and all the ones I did were muzzle order based, 0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:07.400 so it was all black powder open sites. And I 0:44:07.560 --> 0:44:10.040 want to remember when into my first frozen turkey was 0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:12.320 quite the accomplishment. I think I took a picture with it, 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:16.600 like Griffin Grinn do you know? Daring? Um, I'm gonna 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:23.600 pivot back into uh Wayne shooting whatnot? Daring? The Clinton administration, 0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:27.960 they very early on when they first identified Ben Ladden 0:44:28.200 --> 0:44:33.880 as a threat. They he was out hunting birds in 0:44:33.960 --> 0:44:39.479 the desert at a falconry camp and they debated hitting 0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:42.279 him there. This is like way back like ninety two 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:45.400 or something like that. They debated hitting him there, but 0:44:45.680 --> 0:44:49.479 there was some other high profile sawdies who were also 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:52.000 hunting out of that same camp, and they decided against it. 0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:55.960 So they almost got him hunting A good way to 0:44:56.040 --> 0:45:01.760 go that that that was my pivot because watch, I'll 0:45:01.800 --> 0:45:04.480 wrap it up. So since they you know there's that 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:08.640 bird hunting culture through falconry, there's also a shotgunning culture there. 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:12.839 And you were a competitive shotgun shooter. I never really 0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:15.000 shot competitively. Well, I thought that, So what did you 0:45:15.000 --> 0:45:19.600 do in high school? Shot um pistol? Pistol, That's what 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:21.160 it was. And then for some reason I thought you 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:23.600 you went and you were doing like the competitive wing shooting, 0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:26.200 not wingshooting, but ski I shot it a little bit, 0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:28.799 played with it. I had my roommate shot competitively, but yeah, 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:31.640 I was always pistol all the way through. How did 0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:34.160 you how did you first, like start, how did you 0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:36.920 get into that? So I kind of started through a 0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:38.760 local club when I was in high school and buildings 0:45:38.880 --> 0:45:41.600 we had on the competitive side and we shot small 0:45:41.640 --> 0:45:44.880 bow rifle, twenty rifle and then uh air rifle, and 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:46.600 so I shot that for a couple of years and 0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:49.600 then and I was okay. But there's a it's a 0:45:49.719 --> 0:45:53.120 lot of uh kind of building up a system of shooting. 0:45:53.200 --> 0:45:55.240 I mean, you're trying to get your position now in lockdown. 0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:57.200 That's most of what rifle shooting is is the position. 0:45:57.640 --> 0:45:59.600 So you're trying to get super stable so that you're 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:02.239 right literally doesn't move, and it takes a while to 0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:06.000 kind of develop that. So right, so you're shooting three position, 0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:09.719 you're shooting offhand, kneeling and prone and prone. Obviously it's 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:12.040 pretty easy. Everything's with a sling and peep sites, so 0:46:12.880 --> 0:46:15.000 that that's pretty easy, and getting into your kneeling and 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:17.200 off hand positions takes a little bit more time. So 0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:19.080 I was decent, but not really great. And then I 0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.560 started shooting pistol as kind of an add on to that, 0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:24.640 and it was a lot better at pistol, and I 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:26.279 enjoyed it more. There's you know, to put them all 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:28.359 the jackets and drag your suitcase around with all your gear. 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:31.919 So I'm I'm a little bit less structured in that regard, 0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:33.680 so I had more fun with it. How good can 0:46:33.719 --> 0:46:36.600 a person get with its funny to you rifle? Um? 0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:40.360 Pretty good? Like what kind of hundred yard group can 0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:42.960 you shoot with the twenty two oh under an inch? 0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:46.960 Like with a sling and a shooting just off a sling, 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:51.560 prone shooting offhand stuff, Um, they don't really shoot hunter. 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:54.399 All their matches are fifty yards. So but most guys 0:46:54.480 --> 0:46:57.160 that are good can hold pretty much hold half inch 0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.920 group shooting all the way through three position. Yeah, they'll 0:47:00.960 --> 0:47:03.520 they'll drop some points, but prone it's to be a 0:47:03.520 --> 0:47:05.200 competitive at the pro level, you have to shoot at 0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:07.600 six sixty out of sixty at fifty yards and that's 0:47:07.640 --> 0:47:10.680 wind calls. So you're shooting your you know, it's about 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:13.080 half an inch bulls eye that you're shooting at. So yeah, 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:14.759 if you're at the not even the national level, the 0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:16.759 top two or three guys will I'll be cleaning them 0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:19.959 sixty out of sixty shooting peep sites. Have you hunted 0:47:19.960 --> 0:47:22.520 squirrels much a little bit or cotton tails? Yeah? I was. 0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:25.120 I was stationed in Georgia, so George and Alabama is 0:47:25.120 --> 0:47:27.399 pretty pretty much bout hunting all that stuff. So these 0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:31.680 guys with hunt they could hunt, so they could hunt 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:33.799 squirrels and just shoot off hand and hit squirrels out 0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:35.920 of the trees in the head. Yeah, those guys are 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:37.680 some of those guys are nuts. How well how well 0:47:37.719 --> 0:47:41.000 they shoot? Yeah, I shoot a twenty two rifle decent. 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:42.880 I'm not you know, some of those guys are pretty good. 0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:45.960 But yeah, I alwaysally just messed around to take my 0:47:46.200 --> 0:47:48.759 glock nine all to go squirrel hunting. Just get get 0:47:48.840 --> 0:47:51.000 up on that and you could get that good with that. Yeah, 0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:55.399 I can hit squirrels with it. Okah. Best So funny story. 0:47:55.760 --> 0:47:57.279 A buddy of mine, who's who's it back in the 0:47:57.320 --> 0:47:59.400 service now, he's actually one of the Special Forces groups. Now, 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:02.040 I was in the marksmanship unit with we were teaching classes, 0:48:02.040 --> 0:48:04.920 because when you're in the Army Marksmanship Unit, it's kind 0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:07.360 of a duel. You have to be an instructor and 0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:09.759 a competitive shooter. So you you do your training and 0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:12.360 you compete, but you also were on the instructor instructing 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:14.719 side of it. And the unit started in fifty six 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:16.840 and the the idea was is, hey, we need to 0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:18.880 figure out how to teach people to shoot well. So 0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:21.400 what's what better way to do that than have people compete? 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:23.480 And then they learned the best way of doing everything, 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:25.759 and then they convert that to the military and then 0:48:25.800 --> 0:48:27.759 teach all the joes. So that was kind of the 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:30.600 mission statement of the unit and it stayed pretty much 0:48:30.640 --> 0:48:32.000 the same all the way through. And that was the 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:34.480 unit you were in. Yeah, yeah, the Army Markmanship Unit. 0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:37.040 And it's and that's they're still you know, your titles 0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:39.879 a shooter instructor, so your training, but then you're also 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.399 going in teaching, which I found that to be, uh, 0:48:43.080 --> 0:48:44.960 probably the more rewarding side of it, just because you're 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:47.080 working with guys that just could literally save their life 0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:49.320 and you know, help them to be effective. So we 0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:51.200 had a class and we were teaching. There was about 0:48:51.200 --> 0:48:53.719 twenty guys, and it was a close quarters marksmanship c 0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:56.680 q M stuff. So you're shooting rifle, you know, car 0:48:56.760 --> 0:48:58.880 beings and pistols out to fifty yards. It's kind of 0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:01.520 the running gun if you think shooting type stuff. So 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:03.479 we're at this class and a lot of the guys 0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:05.760 to qualify, we had a six inch dot at fifteen 0:49:05.800 --> 0:49:07.920 yards and that was kind of the standard that we 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:10.040 tried to get them too by the end of the class. 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:12.960 So everybody was kind of shooting, and it was lunchtime, 0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:15.160 and whenever it is lunch, we had amman around and guns, 0:49:15.160 --> 0:49:16.840 so we always just kind of kept shooting. So my 0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:20.239 buddy was out there shooting and we look up on 0:49:20.280 --> 0:49:22.799 the berm and it's kind of about eighty yards this berm, 0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:24.640 and then maybe thirty or forty up to the top, 0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:28.440 and there's this fox squirrel that's running along this berm, 0:49:28.800 --> 0:49:30.680 and so we see this thing like I was like, hey, hey, 0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:32.800 there's a squirrel up there. So of course, you know, 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:34.799 it's open season on squirrels, and we're like all right. 0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:37.880 So the squirrel kind of comes down the berm a 0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:41.200 little bit and Buddy walks forward yards. He's not right 0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:42.600 next to the class. They're all kind of sitting under 0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:46.200 this covered area and this squirrels maybe seventy eight yards 0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:48.360 away and it's sitting in this tree, and so he 0:49:48.440 --> 0:49:50.480 pulls out his glock, you know, thirty four. It's like 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:53.279 a long slide clock, nine millimeter, and everybody's looking at 0:49:53.360 --> 0:49:54.880 him like, yeah, there's no way, you know, we've been 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:56.720 trying to hit the six inch dot. So he shoots 0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:58.719 and I think he missed his first shot at it. 0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:02.040 Second shot, he smoked this thing and it's like hanging 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:04.919 from the tree. So he shoots again, missed his third shot, 0:50:05.000 --> 0:50:07.520 shoots again, hits it again. It's fourth time and it falls. 0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:09.520 So he runs up there and grabs the squirrel. So 0:50:09.880 --> 0:50:11.920 it was really funny watching the expression on all these 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:14.360 guys's face. They're like, this guy just shot a squirrel 0:50:14.400 --> 0:50:16.920 of a tree like eighty yards away with a nine 0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:20.840 millimeter clock. So that's how that's kind of where you 0:50:20.840 --> 0:50:22.319 can get with some of that stuff. So those guys 0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:24.440 that you shoot all the time, it's just it's crazy 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:26.360 how accurates something you can get, especially with a pistol. 0:50:26.840 --> 0:50:31.239 You know, we carry pistols for bare protection sometimes and 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:36.120 now and then we'll get around shooting the pistols. It's embarrassing. 0:50:37.239 --> 0:50:41.919 It's so hard. Well, we took one class um from 0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:45.760 really well known instructor. By the end of that class 0:50:45.800 --> 0:50:48.919 we get all hit uh gong at a hundred yards 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:55.960 with uh and it's it's form, man form and and 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:58.560 just and the mental thing. There's like a mental thing 0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:00.200 and like I can't hit stuff with a pistol. And 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:02.680 it's like then you watch somebody pull up and shoot 0:51:02.719 --> 0:51:04.680 a man sized target at like two hundred yards like 0:51:04.800 --> 0:51:07.439 ding ding ding ding ding ding, and you're like, Okay, 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:09.120 it's voodoo, and it's like, no, it's not. You just 0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:11.120 have to you gotta get your mind right. There's like 0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:13.279 a certain way of thinking about pistols and triggering in 0:51:13.480 --> 0:51:15.680 sights and then once you get the form, like how 0:51:15.719 --> 0:51:18.560 to lock it down. The most the most shooting disciplines 0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:20.359 are like that, right, I mean, shooting a thousand yards 0:51:20.400 --> 0:51:22.200 with the rifle seems intimidating until you lay down and 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:24.160 have somebody tell you how to do it. Yeah, it's true. 0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:26.040 You have a spot or to you know, to walk 0:51:26.120 --> 0:51:27.839 you through it, and you've got control. I think that's 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.000 the other thing about pistols. It's there's nothing. There's no 0:51:30.040 --> 0:51:32.000 support system where rife. But you've got a stock and 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:33.200 you've got you know, you can kind of make it 0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:35.880 stop moving and keep it from like twitching. It's like pistol, 0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:38.600 any little thing. It's all about the mechanics of how 0:51:38.640 --> 0:51:42.160 you're shooting it, and it goes back to just repetitions. 0:51:42.239 --> 0:51:44.719 But that was kind of our thing in training. It's 0:51:44.719 --> 0:51:46.800 the most boring thing in the world, but trying to 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:50.080 get your hold super super tight. So we would literally 0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:52.680 hold against a wall for half hour forty five minutes 0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:54.920 a day, and you work on body sway because you 0:51:55.040 --> 0:51:57.480 naturally sway when you stand, so you're trying to eliminate 0:51:57.560 --> 0:51:59.839 all that so that you're not moving your site back 0:51:59.880 --> 0:52:02.319 and forth on the target. You say, hold against the wall. 0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:04.319 You just had your arm up. Yeah, but what does 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:06.480 that mean like you're pushing. Nope. You just take a 0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:08.360 pistol and you hold it about a foot from the 0:52:08.400 --> 0:52:10.239 wall and you've got a dot and you just try 0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:13.480 and hold it on that dot. Is basically work through 0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:15.040 your body and try and get all the movement out 0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:17.120 and just work on keeping that as still as possible, 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:19.200 and you kind of build up all your little stabilizer muscles. 0:52:19.760 --> 0:52:21.840 But it's it's crazy how tight you can hold with 0:52:21.880 --> 0:52:24.560 the pistol once you've if you've trained that for so long, 0:52:24.600 --> 0:52:26.560 because if you're shooting that something so small, you can't 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:28.480 be if you're moving around a lot, you know your 0:52:28.480 --> 0:52:31.040 wobble area. You're trying to get that as small as possible, 0:52:31.440 --> 0:52:33.200 and then you just it's like any other pistol. You're 0:52:33.200 --> 0:52:35.960 trying to break it inside that little wobble. But the 0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:38.040 smaller you get it, the more consistent you'll be in 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:39.640 the more you know your score will go up. How 0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:41.360 much do your sites matter to you? Like if you 0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:44.399 have all your mechanics that matters if because you think 0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:46.360 about it, you know if you're off by a millimeter 0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:49.240 on your side alignment, that's throwing you off by inches 0:52:49.320 --> 0:52:52.400 at even fifty feet, so you know it it sites 0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:55.320 front sight, side alignment. The targets blurry when we shoot, 0:52:55.400 --> 0:52:57.440 you're just it's literally just locking those sights in. And 0:52:57.960 --> 0:53:01.600 we had the national coach name is Sergey lose Off. 0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:04.080 He was a Russian shot running target over in Russian 0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:05.719 and then came over with a pistol coach, so he 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:08.480 had an accent. But he's like, you know, and I 0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:09.919 don't know if I can do a good Russian accent 0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:13.280 or not, but he's like Ukrainian. I think, all right, Russia, 0:53:13.400 --> 0:53:16.600 we're pretty what you have to do, He's like, it's 0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:18.600 like we have It's like you got to think about 0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:20.200 it like this. It's it's like your front sites are 0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:23.080 not like this. Uh, you're just watching this child walk 0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:24.880 around the room. He's like, he's like, you have to 0:53:24.920 --> 0:53:26.759 grab the child and slam him on the on the 0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:30.680 table and like holding there. That's how you work. The 0:53:30.719 --> 0:53:34.239 sites sounds Russian and I was like, oh sir, He's like, 0:53:34.360 --> 0:53:36.080 you know, they're not just passive. It's like you need 0:53:36.120 --> 0:53:38.480 to grab them. I was like, okay, okay, I got it. 0:53:38.560 --> 0:53:42.560 Sites are important. Can you Is there anyone that makes 0:53:43.080 --> 0:53:50.399 Does anyone make money shooting competitively? Is there any like paid? Um? Well, 0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:53.680 if you're good, that's the key. And I know some 0:53:53.760 --> 0:53:55.279 of the guys that I shot within the unit, like 0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:57.880 three guns pretty a lot of guys get out and 0:53:57.920 --> 0:53:59.480 they go work for you know, some of the guys 0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:02.000 that were went now top shooter for cig for instance. 0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:04.040 So you go get an industry job like that, Yeah, 0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:08.360 you make good money or um vincent Um that shoots 0:54:08.360 --> 0:54:11.120 shotgun a lot of Hancock. He's a you know, multi 0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:13.080 time gold medalists, so he's out of the army now 0:54:13.120 --> 0:54:14.920 and does a lot of training seminars so he'll go 0:54:15.040 --> 0:54:17.160 and has his own kind of training system and does that. 0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:18.759 So you can make money on that side of it. 0:54:19.200 --> 0:54:21.800 But generally speaking, unless you're really really good or you 0:54:21.840 --> 0:54:23.840 get sponsorships, there's not when you're not going out and 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:26.839 winning a hundred thousand dollars. YEA three gun is really 0:54:26.960 --> 0:54:29.480 the main one where guys could make because you're gonna 0:54:29.480 --> 0:54:33.360 get sponsored by several companies that basically pays. There's some payouts. 0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:36.839 Explain three gun for people. So three gun is uh, 0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:39.520 it's an action sport where you're shooting rifle, pistol shotgun. 0:54:39.800 --> 0:54:42.000 So it's a running gun. Anybody that shot like I, 0:54:42.080 --> 0:54:44.239 D P A, U, s P, s A, any of 0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:47.120 the action pistol stuff. You're running those guns and there's 0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:48.719 different classes so you can run. Some of them are 0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:51.319 race guns ports and a dot on them don't even move. 0:54:51.400 --> 0:54:53.520 And then you've got limited which is more you know, 0:54:53.560 --> 0:54:55.160 you have to shoot iron sights and you're limited on 0:54:55.239 --> 0:54:57.279 some of your magazine stuff, and then production is just 0:54:57.360 --> 0:54:59.200 like a stock glock. You can change a couple of things, 0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:02.319 but not a lot, so there's different classes. And then 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:04.560 it's just running through a course and you'll have you know, 0:55:04.600 --> 0:55:08.320 a R fifteen target air fifteen rifle and you're shooting 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:10.600 targets that are either paper steel, so you have like 0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:12.680 knocked down fall down plates. You know a lot of 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:14.680 steel and it's either two hits on steel or one 0:55:14.719 --> 0:55:16.880 hit on steel knock them over. And then you've got 0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:19.319 paper targets with rings so like a ring b ring 0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:22.080 you know, see ring type stuff. So you're just running 0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:25.799 through a course and you have it all three guns 0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:29.160 at once, not not usually some of them. Um so 0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:31.160 there's a match and I haven't shot a lot of 0:55:31.160 --> 0:55:33.560 three guns, but they had had a match that um MGM. 0:55:33.920 --> 0:55:37.400 It's like the metal target company they sponsored out in Idaho, 0:55:37.719 --> 0:55:40.560 like eastern southeastern Idaho called the Iron Man, and so 0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:42.600 their stages were I mean you'd run a stage and 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:44.600 be like four or five minutes long, and you have 0:55:44.680 --> 0:55:47.600 to drag dummies and like have weights and you shoot 0:55:48.000 --> 0:55:51.040 i mean like sixty shots a shotgun and you start 0:55:51.080 --> 0:55:53.520 you're like loading a shotgun, go through like four magazines 0:55:53.560 --> 0:55:57.440 on your pistol, and it was just super long stages 0:55:57.640 --> 0:55:59.880 and you're running through and so they say you start here, 0:56:00.000 --> 0:56:02.480 you gotta shoot this bank of targets and you could 0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:04.560 miss stuff and you know, you're trying to keep track 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:06.560 of everything and like, oh, you didn't see that target, 0:56:06.640 --> 0:56:09.080 and so that's those are kind of fun. And then 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:11.239 a lot of them are more controlled, where's a tight 0:56:11.360 --> 0:56:12.960 stage and you just kind of run through and play 0:56:13.040 --> 0:56:15.800 the game and it's all about speed and accuracy. So 0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:18.080 how fast can you move? The guys that are really 0:56:18.120 --> 0:56:20.080 really good at it, you can break down the stage 0:56:20.080 --> 0:56:22.239 and find the least amount of movement. And it's they 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:23.680 don't tell you how to shoot anything, so you can 0:56:23.719 --> 0:56:26.279 shoot pretty much any order as long as you're not 0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:29.040 you know, shooting back. It's like a one eight plane 0:56:29.080 --> 0:56:31.880 that you can't break and people just work through it 0:56:31.920 --> 0:56:34.799 and it's it's pretty cool that like hitting all the targets. Yeah, 0:56:34.920 --> 0:56:36.600 and you're just trying to, you know, go through and 0:56:36.680 --> 0:56:38.319 hit everything as fast as you can and the least 0:56:38.320 --> 0:56:41.160 amount of movement and then it's all time time versus hits. Yeah, 0:56:41.160 --> 0:56:42.840 a lot of times they'll be a shooting house or 0:56:43.040 --> 0:56:45.040 like to answer your question about where the guns are, 0:56:45.320 --> 0:56:47.840 you'll have like a barreled shotguns and some of them 0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:52.120 are or air fifteen on the table, so you know, 0:56:52.280 --> 0:56:54.120 some of them make you pack them so you shoot 0:56:54.160 --> 0:56:55.560 it and then you gotta sling it. Like that's where 0:56:55.560 --> 0:56:56.520 I was going with the Iron Man. It's like you 0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:58.480 gotta sling stuff and carry it sometimes. But a lot 0:56:58.520 --> 0:57:00.440 of them, like you said, you shoot your pistol drop 0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:02.440 in a box, grab your rifles. Should your rifle drop 0:57:02.520 --> 0:57:04.880 in a box, grab your shotgun, finish it out, clear it. 0:57:05.360 --> 0:57:07.279 So that's to keep it safe. And are the mill 0:57:07.400 --> 0:57:10.120 a dude? The military guys dominate this or there people 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:12.560 who've never been in the military, they're good at um. Both. 0:57:12.800 --> 0:57:15.000 It comes out of training. You know obviously in the unit. 0:57:15.040 --> 0:57:17.120 If you've got guns face you know that. Think cool 0:57:17.120 --> 0:57:18.280 thing about the a m U is we had a 0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:21.600 fully functional gun shop with full time guys that are 0:57:21.640 --> 0:57:24.040 working on machining, I mean full on CNC machines. They 0:57:24.080 --> 0:57:26.320 could pretty much redesign and build anything you wanted them to. 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:29.080 Full reloading room guys that all they do is reload 0:57:29.160 --> 0:57:32.520 and test. So in terms of figuring out the market, 0:57:32.560 --> 0:57:34.560 you've got guys like that, which is obviously an advantage, 0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:36.280 but a lot of it's just time on the range 0:57:36.320 --> 0:57:40.160 and bullets range. It's time and run through, run through 0:57:40.200 --> 0:57:42.280 your stages. Like everything has to be muscle memory. How 0:57:42.320 --> 0:57:43.680 do I cut off a half a second on the 0:57:43.720 --> 0:57:46.320 shotgun reload? How do I cut off half a second 0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:48.280 on this movement? Half a second here? Because that adds 0:57:48.360 --> 0:57:50.280 up and that's the difference between first and tenth. I 0:57:50.400 --> 0:57:52.360 tried this some years ago, and it was reloading that 0:57:52.440 --> 0:57:55.080 got me all the time. Reloading a shot shotguns horrible 0:57:55.120 --> 0:57:57.680 and I was horrible, like fumbling everywhere. You drop around 0:57:57.760 --> 0:57:59.840 like oh, pick that up, and then you know, if 0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:01.160 you don't get them all in there, you're just gonna 0:58:01.160 --> 0:58:02.680 miss one, like you just and then you got to 0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:05.479 keep going. Yeah, but military is good. We we shot 0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:07.120 some of that styled stuff, so there's kind of a 0:58:07.160 --> 0:58:09.840 competitive side. And when we were in we stood up 0:58:09.840 --> 0:58:11.120 a team. So the last year that was in the 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:13.240 unit actually went over we called the I T. G 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.560 and Structure Training Group and usually what we did we 0:58:15.640 --> 0:58:17.600 had the pistol shooters kind of teach the close range stuff, 0:58:17.680 --> 0:58:19.480 you know. The Service Pistol International pistol, and then the 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:22.200 rifle shooters that were on the rifle teams, they taught 0:58:22.280 --> 0:58:24.840 kind of the long range wind calling in position stuff 0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:29.760 and it worked okay, and what we did, um some 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:31.320 guys stood it up. And then I actually joined the 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:32.840 team after they had kind of started working on it 0:58:33.520 --> 0:58:36.480 was to develop a curriculum that said, hey, we've got 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:39.280 guys like like myself and other guys have shot through 0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:42.000 college and we had you know, six a ten years 0:58:42.040 --> 0:58:44.200 of shooting experience. And then we had guys that came 0:58:44.240 --> 0:58:46.800 over from like the third range of battalions at Fort Bennings. 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:48.800 A lot of those guys would come over. So you've 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:51.200 got guys that have been deployed six ten times and 0:58:51.280 --> 0:58:54.040 spent a lot of time, you know, years in combat. 0:58:54.640 --> 0:58:56.120 And then you take those guys you say, all right, 0:58:56.160 --> 0:58:58.720 what's effective in combat? What's effective if you're if you're 0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:00.240 in houses, if you're knocking on door, or is if 0:59:00.240 --> 0:59:02.080 you shooting long range? What type of situations do you see? 0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:03.960 How do you make this effective? And then we took 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:06.160 our shooting ability. So I know how to pull a trigger, 0:59:06.160 --> 0:59:07.840 I know how to run a gun, but how do 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:10.160 you kind of meld the two together so that you're 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:12.640 running a gun so it's combat effective and that was 0:59:12.720 --> 0:59:15.960 really really cool, and then developing programs through that. So 0:59:16.280 --> 0:59:18.360 we trained a lot of kind of three guns. But 0:59:18.440 --> 0:59:19.880 it's like, how do you get your kid efficient? How 0:59:19.920 --> 0:59:21.360 do you get the stuff quickly? How where do you 0:59:21.400 --> 0:59:23.000 put your magazines? How do you set up your rifle 0:59:23.040 --> 0:59:25.720 so that you're not you know, everything's quick inefficient. So 0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:29.120 efficiency of movement is important no matter what what your shoot, 0:59:29.120 --> 0:59:31.360 if it's combat or if it's you know, training. I 0:59:31.400 --> 0:59:36.240 think I told you this, uh over dinner, But one 0:59:36.280 --> 0:59:40.480 time went down. I was the guest of Special Forces 0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:42.160 Group in Fort Bragg, and I went down into their 0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:44.600 compound and I was surprised because I went out to 0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:48.240 watch them train and they were training on something that 0:59:48.240 --> 0:59:52.520 seems like so specific. They were spending the day training 0:59:52.640 --> 0:59:58.200 on how to transition from your rifle to your pistol. 0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:03.320 Right basically, they're training how to drop that and pull 1:00:04.120 --> 1:00:07.080 your pistol out so and shoot a target with it. 1:00:07.160 --> 1:00:11.160 And it's it seems small, but you've got to think 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:13.000 about the situation that you're looking at. Okay, you you 1:00:13.200 --> 1:00:15.120 bust into a building and all of a sudden there's 1:00:15.120 --> 1:00:17.520 guys popping out with guns and you pull the trigger 1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:21.440 and you hear the loudest sound in the world click, right, 1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:24.200 and then what now. It's like, well, you can try 1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:26.000 and clear your rifle and get around in it, or 1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:28.320 you know, misfire. You don't necessarily know what's wrong. You 1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:30.960 have some sort of malfunction. Well, we train, and it's 1:00:31.000 --> 1:00:33.480 kind of been a transition in the military away from 1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:36.400 we'll get your rifle up. Pistols are just there so 1:00:36.520 --> 1:00:38.280 you can look good, I guess, to where it's like, 1:00:38.280 --> 1:00:40.760 no pistol can be an effective tool. So that's where 1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:42.480 you see those transitions. It's like, and I know a 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:44.800 guy that I did some work with that had a 1:00:44.880 --> 1:00:47.200 situation where this happened, and it's the same thing as 1:00:47.200 --> 1:00:48.760 like click. He tried to clear it, click, and all 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:50.120 of a sudden, the guys turned around with a gun. 1:00:50.160 --> 1:00:51.520 It's like, what do you do now. It's like, well, 1:00:52.000 --> 1:00:54.520 I've got a secondary weapon, because it's always primary secondary, 1:00:54.600 --> 1:00:56.840 that's how they train in the military. He's like, well, 1:00:56.920 --> 1:00:59.840 here comes the pistol and basically saved his life. So 1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:03.040 that's why if you shoot it, it doesn't go and 1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:04.400 you've got a threat in front of you. It's like 1:01:04.440 --> 1:01:06.680 you have to get to your secondary as quickly as possible. 1:01:06.680 --> 1:01:08.200 And if it takes you three seconds to do that, 1:01:08.600 --> 1:01:10.880 which isn't a lot of time, but it's a whole 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:13.720 lot different than second half. That's why that's such an 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:15.960 important thing. And you know, you start from the ground up. 1:01:16.040 --> 1:01:18.760 That's where every little you train, every aspect. You start 1:01:18.800 --> 1:01:20.800 with just a gunlow, bring a gun up and shoot, 1:01:20.840 --> 1:01:23.000 and then you bring a gun up and shoot left 1:01:23.040 --> 1:01:24.800 and right, you know, transition targets, and then you bring 1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:27.320 up and shoot close near, and then you do a reload, 1:01:27.360 --> 1:01:28.720 and then you just kind of work your way through 1:01:28.760 --> 1:01:31.960 every aspect and then that gives those guys ability to train, 1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:33.440 and you can do it without even shooting. You know, 1:01:33.640 --> 1:01:36.080 you can transition, you can do all that stuff, practice 1:01:36.160 --> 1:01:39.160 movements and it's it's crazy how quick you can shoot 1:01:39.800 --> 1:01:41.920 transitions and how fast you can move between gear and 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:43.440 how fast you do a reload. Where do you put 1:01:43.480 --> 1:01:46.560 your your kit at all? And like you said, it's 1:01:46.560 --> 1:01:48.400 like we'll spend a whole day doing this. It's like, well, 1:01:48.560 --> 1:01:50.560 the level of details fast and thing. I recently heard 1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:52.920 an interview with an FBI agent. He was saying the 1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:55.800 FBI Academy, they teach you how to unbuckle your seat belt. 1:01:57.320 --> 1:02:00.280 They did like you to take your left hand and 1:02:00.360 --> 1:02:04.520 put it between your body and the belt, slide down 1:02:05.960 --> 1:02:08.720 to the buckle, reach your finger around and unclipped the 1:02:08.760 --> 1:02:12.800 buckle and move it so that it diminishes the chances 1:02:12.840 --> 1:02:14.520 that if you need to get out of your car quickly, 1:02:14.600 --> 1:02:18.400 that you become entangled in your seat seatbelt. And like 1:02:18.520 --> 1:02:21.280 to think about that, someone's looking at like that level 1:02:21.320 --> 1:02:25.880 of that that level of specificity, and you're saying, once 1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:28.240 you learn it, you never unbuckle your belt another way. 1:02:28.520 --> 1:02:31.480 It just becomes like how you're doing being in grizzly 1:02:31.520 --> 1:02:34.200 country though, Like if you're thinking about having bear spray 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:37.440 and a pistol, and then no one ever talks about it, 1:02:37.920 --> 1:02:40.400 never practice you have to, like you should have that 1:02:40.480 --> 1:02:43.360 transition down and where how you get your pistol, how 1:02:43.400 --> 1:02:45.160 you get your bear spray, and have practiced that even 1:02:45.200 --> 1:02:47.880 think you don't practice it. So then we we talked 1:02:47.880 --> 1:02:49.320 about doing a thing where now and then when you're 1:02:49.320 --> 1:02:51.840 out in grizzly country, but now and then someone should 1:02:51.880 --> 1:02:54.720 just clap their hands with those stop watch and be 1:02:54.840 --> 1:02:56.760 like how long does it take everyone to like dig 1:02:56.840 --> 1:03:04.919 through their pack by their prepper spray die. It's like, quick, 1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:07.320 where did I put that stuff? You know? Yeah, man, 1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:10.240 it's the same kind of danger. You know, I don't 1:03:10.240 --> 1:03:11.720 want to get eaten by a barrel or shot by 1:03:11.720 --> 1:03:14.040 a dude. You know your chances if you spend a 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:15.920 lot of time in the wilderness, you know your chances 1:03:15.960 --> 1:03:18.160 are higher, meaning by a bear in a lot of cases, 1:03:18.200 --> 1:03:22.840 and getting shot in Montana. I mean, just reality. What like, 1:03:23.480 --> 1:03:26.960 what makes what makes a good shooter? Is it? Is it? 1:03:28.240 --> 1:03:30.040 I know you can't divide them out, but what makes 1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:32.800 the actor a great shooter? Is it is? It's psychological? 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:37.440 Is it physical? Definitely? Psychological? More psychological. We'd say shooting 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:41.240 is physical nine percent metal. What is the metal? So 1:03:41.960 --> 1:03:43.640 this is where it gets crazy, right, depends on what 1:03:43.760 --> 1:03:45.920 you're doing. So if it's a dynamic thing, then it's 1:03:45.920 --> 1:03:50.720 about training muscle memory, training movements. So it's like building 1:03:50.800 --> 1:03:54.920 up your your kind of processes, your thoughtless processes. On 1:03:55.120 --> 1:03:57.680 the more intentional side of it, So like the stuff 1:03:57.680 --> 1:04:01.080 that I shot is very slow, methodical, all process based. 1:04:01.200 --> 1:04:03.600 So what you're trying to do is you're trying to 1:04:03.640 --> 1:04:06.880 get a mental process that is repeatable, and then you 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:08.560 are a plan and then you stick to that and 1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:10.720 that's what you're doing the whole time. So you work 1:04:10.760 --> 1:04:12.200 on the physical you know, the holding the gun, that 1:04:12.240 --> 1:04:13.680 triggering and all that, but then the rest of it 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:15.680 becomes mental. So we would read a lot of you know, 1:04:15.800 --> 1:04:18.480 golf books, tennis books, things like that, because it's the 1:04:18.520 --> 1:04:20.640 same idea. It's like when you have your golf swing down. 1:04:20.840 --> 1:04:22.440 You know, anybody at the top fifty guys in the 1:04:22.480 --> 1:04:25.040 PGA can alsowing in golf club, It's like, what's the difference. 1:04:25.040 --> 1:04:27.600 It's like, well, where they put themselves mentally, the decisions 1:04:27.640 --> 1:04:31.160 they make, you know, making good shots, following their process 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:34.600 exactly the same way every time, and that's where it's 1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:36.440 you know, it's like it's like a lot of things, 1:04:36.520 --> 1:04:39.680 I guess, it's process oriented versus outcome oriented. So you're 1:04:39.680 --> 1:04:41.920 trying to keep yourself from thinking about what's the implications 1:04:41.960 --> 1:04:43.400 of if I do this or that. It's like, no, 1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:45.040 it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna do my process and 1:04:45.080 --> 1:04:47.800 whenever happens happens, I've trained the process and I'll stick 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:51.000 to it. And that you're not obsessing over the outcome. 1:04:51.200 --> 1:04:53.120 You can't if as soon as you think outcome, you're done. 1:04:53.360 --> 1:04:55.120 That's what I think. Like, that's the thing I found 1:04:55.160 --> 1:04:58.800 that over the years, I've become I hesitate to use 1:04:58.840 --> 1:05:00.920 the word, I'm not gonna say very good. Over the years, 1:05:00.960 --> 1:05:08.280 I've become good, um like good as a rifle hunter. Okay, 1:05:08.840 --> 1:05:11.439 not like I don't take insane shots, but I don't 1:05:11.480 --> 1:05:12.760 have a lot of I don't I don't make a 1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:15.520 lot of mistakes because you just like do this, this, this, this, this, 1:05:15.640 --> 1:05:20.240 and it just happens. But archery, But the minute, the 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:25.120 minute something's approaching, all I'm thinking about. I'm I'm in 1:05:25.640 --> 1:05:28.480 what you say, outcome all I'm thinking about his outcome. 1:05:29.760 --> 1:05:31.320 I'm like, I don't want to miss it. I don't 1:05:31.320 --> 1:05:33.520 want to wound it. It's like it's all I'm thinking 1:05:33.520 --> 1:05:35.360 about with my rifle. I'm not like I sure hope, 1:05:35.400 --> 1:05:38.440 I I sure hope I don't wound it. I'm like, 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.680 very fun. Yeah, I'm very focused with like, I'm very 1:05:42.200 --> 1:05:44.160 like I know that I'm gonna do what I do 1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:48.000 and I know that I will I will be successful, 1:05:48.240 --> 1:05:50.040 Like I just know that that will happen. So I've 1:05:50.080 --> 1:05:53.120 developed that confidence with archery I can't overcome. It's a 1:05:53.360 --> 1:05:57.040 major problem with archery. I can't overcome jumping to the 1:05:57.120 --> 1:06:00.840 unknown the outcome. It's funny put it that way, because 1:06:02.480 --> 1:06:05.080 it's just but it's in your head, man, it's in 1:06:05.120 --> 1:06:07.400 your head. I've got a mental image. This is from 1:06:07.680 --> 1:06:11.480 like five years ago, still like crisp as Day, and 1:06:11.600 --> 1:06:14.480 it's this. It's me letting an arrow go in a bull. 1:06:14.560 --> 1:06:16.480 It was about thirty five yards away and watching the 1:06:16.560 --> 1:06:19.400 arrow go to to do four ininges over his back 1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:22.120 and like I, I shoot a bed of archery a 1:06:22.200 --> 1:06:23.960 little bit, you know, for a while, and so I can. 1:06:24.000 --> 1:06:26.520 I can shoot a boat pretty decent. And thirty five 1:06:26.560 --> 1:06:29.240 yards is not a long shot, and it's wide open, 1:06:29.400 --> 1:06:32.160 nothing between us, you know, grass, and he's standing there 1:06:32.960 --> 1:06:34.760 and I'm looking, and then you have this mental play 1:06:34.800 --> 1:06:36.200 back and I'm thinking because I was kind of in 1:06:36.280 --> 1:06:37.600 some low grass and I was trying to stay real, 1:06:37.640 --> 1:06:40.440 real low. And then I remember and it's like, okay, 1:06:40.560 --> 1:06:43.480 so your your mind goes through into this whole you know, 1:06:43.640 --> 1:06:46.400 this whole memory and about you know, a millisecond, and 1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:47.960 it's like you have all these pictures that you can 1:06:48.040 --> 1:06:50.200 kind of play back, and I'm thinking you know, when 1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:52.640 I looked at that pin, there was a triangle that 1:06:52.720 --> 1:06:54.600 I was looking at that pin through. It was not 1:06:54.840 --> 1:06:58.280 a circle. That was my peep side. And I know 1:06:58.440 --> 1:07:00.720 I came back and I was oh, and I looked 1:07:00.800 --> 1:07:02.240 right over the top of my peep site through the 1:07:02.280 --> 1:07:08.080 little you know, you're accommodation. And I came through and 1:07:08.200 --> 1:07:10.200 I was like, this is perfect. I was like, and 1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:12.800 the arrow goes fours and three four in right over 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:15.200 his back like dead nuts, straight up right up the 1:07:15.280 --> 1:07:17.680 back of the leg, right over only in hindsight, and 1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:21.000 I'm like, I totally looked over my peep site and 1:07:21.120 --> 1:07:22.840 it's like something that I think I've ever done that. 1:07:23.440 --> 1:07:25.480 Like you said, man, you get in that situation and 1:07:25.560 --> 1:07:27.400 it's like the blood starts pumping in a big bowl 1:07:27.480 --> 1:07:29.600 and you're like, I've recently going to a back tenson 1:07:29.640 --> 1:07:33.200 or at least because I was getting jumpy. And once 1:07:33.240 --> 1:07:34.560 you go to the back tension release, if you're not 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:36.880 the form isn't right and you're not pulling the right way, 1:07:36.920 --> 1:07:39.760 it's not going off. I keep surprised people talk about this, 1:07:40.080 --> 1:07:45.480 but it's like trend. It fixes a lot. Just it's 1:07:45.520 --> 1:07:47.320 a trend. People have been talking about for a long 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:51.080 Have you doing this because my brother like switched. It's 1:07:51.160 --> 1:07:53.680 it's really like what I would when I was practicing 1:07:54.040 --> 1:07:56.320 with the trigger. You know, one out of six shots, 1:07:56.360 --> 1:07:58.640 I'd get tired. I'd be jumping the trigger when you're 1:07:58.640 --> 1:08:02.240 practicing what I would do on the teachings of John Dudley, 1:08:02.320 --> 1:08:05.120 like I would put I'm focused on my back elbow, 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:08.560 feeling that deltoid muscle pull in the right way right, 1:08:08.960 --> 1:08:12.360 focus on that muscle, focus on my follow through, and 1:08:12.480 --> 1:08:15.880 you almost you stop thinking about your front, your site. 1:08:16.120 --> 1:08:18.080 You're thinking about it, and my following through the proper 1:08:18.160 --> 1:08:20.760 process is my process going. We used to I used 1:08:20.800 --> 1:08:22.760 to put um and I still do this. Put a 1:08:22.800 --> 1:08:25.680 speaker behind me, directly behind me where I want to 1:08:25.720 --> 1:08:32.880 pull to turn music on. Public speaker, put you suck 1:08:32.960 --> 1:08:35.200 you suck uh, and put music on and pull to 1:08:35.280 --> 1:08:37.519 the music right and and have my elbow go towards 1:08:37.560 --> 1:08:40.280 the music and focus on you know how my elbow 1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:43.200 is traveling towards that sound, and you totally forget what's 1:08:43.200 --> 1:08:44.960 going on in the front half of your body. And 1:08:45.040 --> 1:08:49.200 I'm more accurate like that than any other way. Yeah, 1:08:49.400 --> 1:08:51.439 I'm going to I haven't but I'm going to see. 1:08:51.479 --> 1:08:54.760 That's the thing is Kenyan was like he Mark Kennyon's 1:08:54.800 --> 1:08:58.280 talking about he's gonna finish up the season and then switch, 1:08:58.360 --> 1:09:01.760 so he's got plenty of time to switch into. I've 1:09:01.800 --> 1:09:03.920 thought about that. I thought about having a thumb release, 1:09:03.960 --> 1:09:06.439 which is generally the same set up, but you're you 1:09:06.520 --> 1:09:09.760 have a thumb trigger instead of right, so you you 1:09:09.880 --> 1:09:12.240 flip to that and it's kind of the same motion, 1:09:12.400 --> 1:09:14.600 but you have control, right, so if an elks coming in, 1:09:14.640 --> 1:09:17.519 you don't have to wait. But I know guys like 1:09:17.760 --> 1:09:19.439 I would say Shane Dory and a bunch of guys 1:09:19.479 --> 1:09:21.880 that have bow hunted with recently who took the leap 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:23.960 and said I'm just gonna hunt with this thing, and 1:09:24.360 --> 1:09:26.599 the next thing I know, they're five shots, five dead 1:09:26.600 --> 1:09:29.160 animals at all different ranges, all different times. So I mean, 1:09:29.200 --> 1:09:31.800 you just adapt to it as being the most sound 1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:33.720 way to have a process in the woods. I've been 1:09:33.760 --> 1:09:36.320 thinking about. It forces you to do it right. It 1:09:36.400 --> 1:09:38.000 forces you to do it right. I just hate like 1:09:38.160 --> 1:09:40.519 new learning new stuff, man, because you know, I mean, 1:09:40.560 --> 1:09:42.479 like after so many years of doing something some way, 1:09:42.800 --> 1:09:45.960 I would rather it's just easy, not easier it's you 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:47.760 just almost want to double down on what you know 1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:50.720 rather than really changing. Like if someone said, like, there's 1:09:50.720 --> 1:09:53.160 a new rifle out and you put a thing in 1:09:53.240 --> 1:09:56.000 your mouth right and you just bite down to make 1:09:56.040 --> 1:09:59.080 it go off, which is probably not a bad idea, Yeah, maybe, 1:09:59.720 --> 1:10:03.880 but I would be hesitant. I was very hesitant when 1:10:03.880 --> 1:10:06.760 I met with John. I'm like, that's a good idea. Yeah, 1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:09.639 somebody right that there just like pinch between your eye 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:13.240 teeth released. I know. I know a guy who got 1:10:13.360 --> 1:10:19.720 in an accident last year man some like trash compactor 1:10:19.840 --> 1:10:22.040 thing and he got like squished in it, messed up 1:10:22.080 --> 1:10:25.000 his back, shoulders and no, no on the job dude. 1:10:25.320 --> 1:10:28.679 But he's really he's really, he's really, he's really serious 1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:31.519 figous hunter imagine something. You know some of you know him. 1:10:31.520 --> 1:10:33.679 But he hunted last year with a with a bow 1:10:33.840 --> 1:10:37.640 with a mouth release because he couldn't draw no, no, 1:10:37.840 --> 1:10:40.080 like t it was a tab that he was biting 1:10:40.320 --> 1:10:42.680 and drawing his bow. Yeah. I grew up with a 1:10:42.720 --> 1:10:44.559 guy like that. He'd lost his arm in an accident 1:10:44.840 --> 1:10:48.720 and shot by holding the mouthpiece. I think he might 1:10:48.800 --> 1:10:51.280 have killed a bull doing that this year, but I 1:10:51.400 --> 1:10:53.840 don't remember exactly. I think he did. He are you 1:10:53.880 --> 1:10:56.080 talking about Josh? Why? Why are you guys being all 1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:59.000 secret at No? I just just because I couldn't couldn't 1:10:59.479 --> 1:11:02.640 bring it to mind right away. Yeah. Yeah, And you 1:11:03.000 --> 1:11:04.479 like how much name dropping do you want to do 1:11:04.560 --> 1:11:07.160 on the Meat Eater podcast? You want to bring too 1:11:07.200 --> 1:11:09.840 much the right amount to not be confusing to people, right, 1:11:10.320 --> 1:11:13.920 that's my that's my barometer. I feel like you're feeling 1:11:13.920 --> 1:11:16.840 a little high and mighty in your fancy sweater today. Dude, 1:11:16.840 --> 1:11:18.840 I'm never Are we gonna talk about it? Are we 1:11:18.880 --> 1:11:21.880 gonna talk about it? Well, let's talk about it. Listen, man, 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:23.800 there's either I either make my wife happy or I 1:11:23.840 --> 1:11:25.639 make you guys happy. And guess if I'm more interested 1:11:25.680 --> 1:11:31.360 in making happy, Yes, man's gotta man's gotta make my 1:11:31.400 --> 1:11:34.519 An's gotta make my wife. Commented on how handsome I 1:11:34.680 --> 1:11:36.760 looked in the sweater she bought me. Yeah, she bought 1:11:36.800 --> 1:11:41.120 you the sweater that she knew she bought it for you. 1:11:41.240 --> 1:11:43.920 See if he wears it again, sweaters just so we 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:47.360 can have an interaction, it'll bring us closer. Uh. Nice 1:11:47.360 --> 1:11:51.400 sweater pivoting away from my sweater? That was quick. Psychological 1:11:52.560 --> 1:11:55.599 what okay, you hunt, this is this is good. You'll 1:11:55.600 --> 1:11:57.680 be able to hand to this. How much does what 1:11:57.840 --> 1:12:04.519 you learned from competitive shooting where it's just replicating controlled atmosphere, right, 1:12:06.120 --> 1:12:11.439 is hunting just totally different? Yes, yes, and no, there's crossover. 1:12:13.080 --> 1:12:15.120 It's uh, it goes back to the process. You gotta 1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:16.800 put yourself like you know I said, and you miss 1:12:16.800 --> 1:12:18.160 a bowl and it's like, how did I do that? 1:12:18.200 --> 1:12:19.720 It's like, well, you get amped up and you don't 1:12:20.040 --> 1:12:22.680 follow through your process that it's kind of the same thing. 1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:25.080 You know, it even combats the same thing. Guys that 1:12:25.160 --> 1:12:27.479 go over and they say, well, you guys are good shooters, 1:12:27.560 --> 1:12:29.479 but you got a combat it's gonna be totally different. 1:12:29.560 --> 1:12:32.360 It's like we used to say, you know, you will 1:12:32.400 --> 1:12:35.200 perform at your lowest level of training, So your worst day, 1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:37.720 that's how you can expect to shoot. Now, you might 1:12:37.760 --> 1:12:40.880 do better, but you're always going to revert back to 1:12:40.920 --> 1:12:43.479 your lowest level of training. Everybody wants to, you know, 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:45.320 peek before and you're gonna rise to the occasion. It's 1:12:45.320 --> 1:12:47.640 like that doesn't happen very often. You you'll revert back 1:12:47.640 --> 1:12:49.439 to your lowest level of training. So that day when 1:12:49.479 --> 1:12:51.439 you feel like crap and you're pulling crappy shots, and 1:12:52.160 --> 1:12:53.559 that's how you're gonna shoot. When you get a big 1:12:53.560 --> 1:12:55.800 bullet front of you, you might shoot better, but that's 1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:58.000 what you can count on, you know, your lowest level 1:12:58.040 --> 1:13:01.760 of training. So it does your surious day. Yeah, that's 1:13:01.800 --> 1:13:05.040 the range. Yeah, work on eliminating those. That's that's the 1:13:05.080 --> 1:13:07.240 whole point. You know, Like talking about back tension releases, 1:13:07.280 --> 1:13:09.759 it's like, well, maybe it doesn't give you as much control, 1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:12.400 but if it's more consistent, like it eliminates those like 1:13:12.560 --> 1:13:14.840 jerk shots that go off in the neverland, It's like, well, 1:13:15.479 --> 1:13:17.720 then that eliminates that shot that that might be the 1:13:17.720 --> 1:13:18.840 shot you pull on a bowl and all of a 1:13:18.840 --> 1:13:20.679 sudden you shoot him back in the pond oring high 1:13:20.760 --> 1:13:23.280 liver or something. You know. The game you play with yourself, 1:13:23.439 --> 1:13:26.920 right is your You go, you're out hunting and you 1:13:27.000 --> 1:13:29.519 throw out a target and you make a nice shot. 1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:34.840 The tendency is to be like, okay shooting, because you 1:13:34.880 --> 1:13:36.720 want to end on that. You want to end on 1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:38.840 that feeling of that you got it dialed. If you 1:13:38.880 --> 1:13:42.040 shoot like a really bad one, want to shoot one more? 1:13:42.360 --> 1:13:44.280 Just I gotta I can't let that sit well, and 1:13:44.360 --> 1:13:45.720 that goes back, you know, to you guys are talking 1:13:45.720 --> 1:13:47.280 about long bogs. You know. I had it with traditional 1:13:47.320 --> 1:13:48.880 for a long time, and it's like that thing that's 1:13:49.000 --> 1:13:51.080 really where you gotta get your mind right because there's 1:13:51.080 --> 1:13:52.920 no pin to rely on. There's no like, oh, I'll 1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:54.160 just pull back with the pin in right place and 1:13:54.160 --> 1:13:57.280 squeeze the trigger. It's like, no, it's all process. I mean, 1:13:57.320 --> 1:13:58.920 you don't have anything to rely on. You're like, well, 1:13:59.040 --> 1:14:00.360 I've been doing this for a long time when I 1:14:00.400 --> 1:14:02.120 shoot a lot, so I'm just gonna come back, follow 1:14:02.200 --> 1:14:04.479 through your touch and that arrow. Hopefully it's gonna go 1:14:04.520 --> 1:14:06.360 we're supposed to and try and get you know, five 1:14:06.439 --> 1:14:09.240 yards away. That helps, but it's it's kind of that 1:14:09.400 --> 1:14:11.720 same thing. I think it does transfer a lot for 1:14:12.240 --> 1:14:14.160 the mental aspect, but I think a lot of it's 1:14:14.160 --> 1:14:15.920 just a process. What's my process? I get in there 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:18.160 and you're thinking about the right thing and think about 1:14:18.200 --> 1:14:19.640 the first thing. You know a lot of guys like 1:14:19.680 --> 1:14:22.000 I don't. I don't know how to to break this down. 1:14:22.080 --> 1:14:23.920 It's like, well, if you get to step one, what 1:14:24.080 --> 1:14:26.479 step one? So say a bowl comes in, It's like 1:14:26.520 --> 1:14:29.439 step one is to say, like remind myself, you know, 1:14:29.479 --> 1:14:32.839 I'm gonna squeeze through the shot or I'm gonna back tension, 1:14:32.920 --> 1:14:34.680 you know, whatever works for you. Site make sure I'm 1:14:34.680 --> 1:14:37.160 picking the rights pin or focus on the pin, you know, 1:14:37.240 --> 1:14:39.000 let the elk be a little bit blurry or whatever 1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:41.800 it is. That's your first step in that process. And 1:14:41.920 --> 1:14:44.960 then say, I'm gonna do that first thing. I've got 1:14:45.080 --> 1:14:47.360 five steps or three steps, and I'm gonna do the 1:14:47.400 --> 1:14:49.720 first one. And if you do that, it's like your 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:51.960 your process then takes over. It's when you get there 1:14:52.000 --> 1:14:53.599 and I don't know, I'm just gonna pick a random 1:14:53.640 --> 1:14:55.960 step and roll with it. Well, then your brain freaks out. 1:14:56.200 --> 1:14:58.200 That's that's step one, and then the rest of them 1:14:58.240 --> 1:15:00.479 will just go like you gotta you gotta it yourself 1:15:00.600 --> 1:15:02.680 into that, start your process and then it just is 1:15:02.680 --> 1:15:05.000 automatic or most of the time. You just said two 1:15:05.040 --> 1:15:07.160 things that resonate with me. I want to back up 1:15:07.200 --> 1:15:08.680 on one because I think it's such a it's a 1:15:08.720 --> 1:15:11.360 really interesting point I hadn't thought of. Is um practicing 1:15:11.479 --> 1:15:17.559 to eliminate your worst which is like when you're shooting, 1:15:17.600 --> 1:15:19.160 if you you know, if you're if you're out shooting, 1:15:19.200 --> 1:15:22.200 in your yard with your bowl and yeah, one in 1:15:22.280 --> 1:15:25.479 every six arrows is just like what the hell? Yeah right, 1:15:25.880 --> 1:15:27.599 how did that go? Yeah, and you write it off. 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:29.840 It's like something. But it's like consistently if you throw 1:15:29.880 --> 1:15:31.559 a bad arrow, Yeah, if you could find a way 1:15:31.600 --> 1:15:34.320 to like think about that rather than trying you know, 1:15:34.400 --> 1:15:36.320 and of course you're trying to replicate your good shots 1:15:36.360 --> 1:15:39.920 to make more of them, but to isolate like the freaks. Well, 1:15:40.040 --> 1:15:42.000 it's because I have enough freaks for if you just 1:15:42.120 --> 1:15:44.559 imagine rolling the dice, Like if every time, if you're 1:15:44.560 --> 1:15:46.160 in a tree stand, every time a deer comes by 1:15:46.600 --> 1:15:48.559 and you've got one in six arrows is just crazy. 1:15:48.560 --> 1:15:50.200 You can never figure out why one in six arrows 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:51.559 is crazy. It's gonna be in the back of your mind. 1:15:51.600 --> 1:15:53.600 You're like, well, is this gonna be the one? The 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:56.160 bad one? Well, you don't like to train stuff you're 1:15:56.200 --> 1:15:57.840 not good at either. It's like I like to make this. 1:15:57.920 --> 1:15:59.200 You know, this is what I'm good at. I'm gonna 1:15:59.200 --> 1:16:00.479 go do that, so I feel good about it. But 1:16:00.560 --> 1:16:03.080 it's like the work involved is finding the areas where 1:16:03.080 --> 1:16:05.639 you're deficient or weak, saying, well, what causes that one 1:16:05.760 --> 1:16:08.920 six shot? Well, it's this, well, then train that, get 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:10.920 better at that, and then it brings your whole system up. 1:16:11.360 --> 1:16:13.760 It's not as much fun. But you know, like blank 1:16:13.800 --> 1:16:15.559 bail shooting, you're blind shooting. A lot of the guys 1:16:15.600 --> 1:16:17.000 will stand there and just work on forum. You know, 1:16:17.040 --> 1:16:19.600 I do a lot, especially traditional. You just get a 1:16:19.640 --> 1:16:21.920 big blank bail and close your eyes and just what's 1:16:21.960 --> 1:16:23.840 it feel like? All right, that's the system, and then 1:16:24.080 --> 1:16:25.880 that's what you do. But it's not fun. It's not 1:16:25.960 --> 1:16:27.840 nearly as much fun as watching arrows flying to the target. 1:16:28.479 --> 1:16:30.840 I've I've tried. I've talked about this before, but my 1:16:31.000 --> 1:16:33.840 dad's somehow got his hands on these stickers. And when 1:16:33.880 --> 1:16:37.280 your kids that said, um, stay calm, pick a spot 1:16:37.760 --> 1:16:40.599 and you put them on the inside of the limb, yep, 1:16:40.680 --> 1:16:42.920 your bow. But then you start relying on this idea 1:16:42.920 --> 1:16:46.120 that you're gonna remember to read that damn sticker. But 1:16:46.200 --> 1:16:48.080 when I'm out, I don't. I don't do this with 1:16:48.160 --> 1:16:50.160 rifle hunting at all. But if I'm out bowl hunting, 1:16:51.280 --> 1:16:52.600 I spent a lot of time trying to be like 1:16:53.320 --> 1:16:55.280 when when the when a moment when you send some 1:16:55.400 --> 1:16:58.800 moments gonna happen to start going into this thing, like 1:16:59.200 --> 1:17:03.400 like you said to bring find yourself process. Yeah. But 1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:05.800 but and you could even be in a situation where 1:17:06.240 --> 1:17:09.840 you see something coming and you and you remember. You're like, 1:17:09.920 --> 1:17:13.120 you congratulate yourself for remembering be like the process process 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:15.479 and just pick some part so you're aware that there 1:17:15.600 --> 1:17:18.160 is a process. But then all of a sudden, like 1:17:18.320 --> 1:17:22.400 you can't tell I remember hunting, hunting. Uh, so you 1:17:22.479 --> 1:17:24.560 can hear in Maryland this year, I had all the 1:17:24.640 --> 1:17:26.639 time in the world, so I called this. I called 1:17:26.680 --> 1:17:28.519 to a stag and he's starting to come and I'm like, wow, 1:17:28.560 --> 1:17:32.200 he's coming, and I'm like, hey, process, process, process, process, process. 1:17:32.360 --> 1:17:33.880 I'm trying to remember all the things I'm gonna do. 1:17:34.800 --> 1:17:38.800 And then he comes through this area where it's a 1:17:38.880 --> 1:17:41.400 lot of obstructions. So he passed through this little thicket 1:17:41.960 --> 1:17:43.639 and I'm like, he's gonna come all the way through 1:17:43.640 --> 1:17:45.680 and I'll never get a shot. But then all of 1:17:45.680 --> 1:17:48.439 a sudden, he stops in the weirdest little gap and 1:17:48.520 --> 1:17:50.360 instead of this whole thing that I've been telling myself 1:17:50.400 --> 1:17:52.679 about how I'm gonna do this whole walk through dimnity 1:17:52.720 --> 1:17:57.599 stops like right so like right up until the second 1:17:58.080 --> 1:18:00.479 and then even though I remembered, like I is happy 1:18:00.560 --> 1:18:04.840 to remember process, but then you get this gap and 1:18:04.920 --> 1:18:07.240 you're like, well, screw the process. Yeah, I think it's 1:18:07.240 --> 1:18:08.920 a good I gotta shoot this arrow. Yeah, it's like 1:18:08.920 --> 1:18:12.120 a good hunter. Who could who would be like I'm 1:18:12.120 --> 1:18:14.960 not gonna have an opportunity. There's an opportunity. I'm gonna 1:18:15.000 --> 1:18:18.960 stick to my plan and if it doesn't work or 1:18:19.040 --> 1:18:21.640 he steps away, then then too bad. And it's not 1:18:21.800 --> 1:18:23.200 like I'm now going to throw the whole thing out 1:18:23.200 --> 1:18:24.760 of the window and then show shoot over its back? 1:18:24.760 --> 1:18:27.200 Which which is? Which is? That's like Kyle hunting for me. 1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:28.800 I've been doing a lot of Kyle hunting in the winter. 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:31.080 Man Kyle comes running in and it's like I forget, 1:18:31.200 --> 1:18:33.439 I mean you forget shoots like hundred yards stand at 1:18:33.479 --> 1:18:34.800 me and he's like they stop and you know they're 1:18:34.800 --> 1:18:36.800 about to rush like boom and you miss him. Like 1:18:36.880 --> 1:18:39.880 I'm shooting a sitting shot with back support and I 1:18:40.040 --> 1:18:43.360 missed a coyote straight up at eight inch target at 1:18:43.360 --> 1:18:46.680 a hundred yards. It's like it'll humble anybody. But it's 1:18:46.680 --> 1:18:48.479 like same thing. It's like I got this plan. He's 1:18:48.479 --> 1:18:49.880 gonna come over here and pop out, and all of 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:51.360 a sudden, it's like there he's about ready to leave, 1:18:51.400 --> 1:18:54.760 and you're like, crap, shoot that shot takes off running. 1:18:54.760 --> 1:18:56.200 You're like, why didn't I do that? I could have 1:18:56.280 --> 1:18:58.559 taken a half a second actually squeeze line up, keep 1:18:58.600 --> 1:19:00.840 it steady, boom and dropping. But you're like, I gotta 1:19:00.840 --> 1:19:03.240 shoot now. What do you think is the biggest mistake? 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:08.000 What what's the biggest mistake that UH hunters make when shooting? 1:19:08.040 --> 1:19:10.960 You can do it archery and and or archery and 1:19:11.240 --> 1:19:14.840 or rifle rushing the shot, I'd say, you know, I 1:19:15.160 --> 1:19:17.320 do it still. That's that's the main thing, trying to 1:19:17.439 --> 1:19:21.240 trying to push that shot. You know, you you break 1:19:21.280 --> 1:19:23.120 your plan, Like you said, I gotta I gotta shoot 1:19:23.120 --> 1:19:24.880 it now, I gotta I gotta do this, I gotta 1:19:24.920 --> 1:19:26.799 do that. If you just take that and it seems 1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:29.439 like forever in your mind, but if you actually watch 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:31.320 a video of yourself shooting, you're like, I felt like 1:19:31.360 --> 1:19:33.400 I took an extra five seconds and it was three 1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:35.920 quarters of a second. That little bit of time to 1:19:36.040 --> 1:19:38.240 just okay, this is what I'm doing and then just 1:19:38.360 --> 1:19:41.000 do it seem like the deliberate you know, that's I 1:19:41.080 --> 1:19:43.160 try and tell myself that just be deliberate, be deliberate, 1:19:43.200 --> 1:19:45.280 be deliberate, because I know the system. I know the process. 1:19:45.360 --> 1:19:48.040 I've shot millions of rounds same things, like, be deliberate, 1:19:48.200 --> 1:19:50.920 make a deliberate shot. It helps me to repeat things 1:19:51.000 --> 1:19:52.880 like that. It just helps me bring my heart rate 1:19:53.080 --> 1:19:55.080 and my breathing down a little bit to have that 1:19:55.280 --> 1:19:58.600 mantra going. I always tell myself slow as smooth and 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:01.040 smooth as fast, yeah, And I just kind of repeat 1:20:01.160 --> 1:20:03.720 that and try to not be like, you know, we 1:20:03.800 --> 1:20:04.960 used to say that all the time. You can't miss 1:20:05.040 --> 1:20:09.519 fast enough, can't miss fast enough. I do that. Also, 1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:11.040 I have a five for archer. I have a five 1:20:11.040 --> 1:20:16.200 step process. Right, So it's feet draw, anchor peep pull, right, 1:20:16.280 --> 1:20:18.040 that's all I do it. And I line my feet 1:20:18.080 --> 1:20:20.400 up and I do all the time, and that's good. Yeah. 1:20:20.600 --> 1:20:22.599 So you see a buck coming and you're like, remember 1:20:23.200 --> 1:20:26.679 feet drawl, So I draw straight back And I didn't 1:20:26.680 --> 1:20:28.160 come up with this, John Dudley did. But you all 1:20:28.200 --> 1:20:30.720 straight back, You find your anchor and then put your 1:20:30.760 --> 1:20:33.280 nose down and find your peep and then pull and 1:20:33.360 --> 1:20:36.559 you're not like you're never like shoot, it's pulled feet. 1:20:36.840 --> 1:20:39.240 Do you line your feet properly, you bring your bow up, 1:20:39.320 --> 1:20:42.639 you draw, you find your anchor, and the feet draw anchor, 1:20:42.920 --> 1:20:47.160 anchor peep and then pull. And if you could just 1:20:47.280 --> 1:20:49.680 remember to do that, Man, here's how I did just that. 1:20:50.000 --> 1:20:57.040 Here's how I generally do it. Feet draw. But yeah, 1:20:57.120 --> 1:20:59.519 but I feel like it's if if the process marries 1:20:59.600 --> 1:21:01.560 up with your ability to act in the moment. Like 1:21:02.240 --> 1:21:04.000 I read. I read a little bit on flow state 1:21:04.040 --> 1:21:06.080 and thought I was real smart, and then I thought 1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:08.160 I would flow state my way to killing animals didn't 1:21:08.160 --> 1:21:10.519 really work. What's flow state me? This is like a 1:21:10.680 --> 1:21:14.519 state of positivity and action and control, like focusing on 1:21:15.360 --> 1:21:17.920 like your mental state and being positive. I thought, oh 1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:21.200 if I meditated. I never meditated. But the idea that 1:21:21.280 --> 1:21:24.200 I could control mentally like this process and make sure 1:21:24.400 --> 1:21:27.320 nothing could penetrate it like one, two, three, four or 1:21:27.360 --> 1:21:31.599 five bam, just have never successfully doesn't work. It doesn't work. 1:21:32.200 --> 1:21:33.759 But that's when when you get to the back tension. 1:21:33.800 --> 1:21:35.960 Then you start to like control. You would make sure 1:21:36.040 --> 1:21:38.400 that hey, man, I can I can jump this, but 1:21:39.080 --> 1:21:40.960 I have to be pulling the right way. It doesn't matter. 1:21:41.040 --> 1:21:43.400 I can try to jump it but the back tension 1:21:43.479 --> 1:21:47.800 is is controlling me. My brother talks about lust and greed. 1:21:48.640 --> 1:21:53.760 Mm hm, the preacher, it's compelling. No, he talks about 1:21:53.800 --> 1:21:56.360 lost and green and honey because he's like, he could 1:21:56.360 --> 1:22:00.320 shoot targets all day long, but he doesn't lust for him. 1:22:01.400 --> 1:22:03.040 And when you put like a big game animal in 1:22:03.120 --> 1:22:07.200 front of him, like he says, it's it disappoints him 1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:13.360 that he's like the lust and greed wants it. He's like, 1:22:13.479 --> 1:22:17.360 I want it so bad that it blocks my ability 1:22:17.479 --> 1:22:20.639 to have it. Yeah, if you could just tell yourself 1:22:20.680 --> 1:22:23.320 there'll be another shot, there'll be another animal. They'll be like, 1:22:23.360 --> 1:22:25.000 if you just treat it like that, like it's got 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:26.519 to be perfect or I'm not gonna do it. If 1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:28.920 you could somehow do that, life will be like maybe 1:22:28.960 --> 1:22:30.560 when I see something coming through the woods, I'll be like, 1:22:30.600 --> 1:22:37.639 who gives a ship? Just a big old box? Who 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:40.960 really even wants this stupid thing? Stupid? It's probably gonna 1:22:41.000 --> 1:22:43.960 taste it's probably gonna taste terrible. Take a shot, but 1:22:44.080 --> 1:22:47.639 I don't care. I always think about that pistol course 1:22:47.680 --> 1:22:51.160 that we took, paid a bunch of money, Um, do 1:22:51.320 --> 1:22:54.599 this accelerated pistol course, by the end of the day, 1:22:55.680 --> 1:22:57.599 five out of five of us can hit a target 1:22:58.360 --> 1:23:03.599 with a pistol at a hundred yards, and I will 1:23:03.760 --> 1:23:07.439 guarantee you within a year, there wasn't one out of 1:23:07.520 --> 1:23:09.720 five of us that could hit a target with in 1:23:09.960 --> 1:23:14.320 fifty yards, right, because will you lock in the process 1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:17.439 and you're like, well, got that, I'll just put this 1:23:17.560 --> 1:23:21.519 on the shelf over here. Perishable skill. That's the thing 1:23:21.600 --> 1:23:26.960 about this, But so so is my long bow. Same thing? Yeah, yeah, 1:23:27.520 --> 1:23:30.720 because it process, process, process, muscle memory. Don't shoot that 1:23:30.800 --> 1:23:33.799 thing for a week. It's like, I'm a danger to myself. 1:23:34.280 --> 1:23:36.280 That's the weird thing in the archery space where everybody's 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:38.240 gotta have a new bow every year, right, you gotta 1:23:38.280 --> 1:23:40.400 have the newest, greatest bow you have to. I mean, 1:23:40.439 --> 1:23:42.200 if you're gonna be any any kind of good, you're like, 1:23:42.240 --> 1:23:45.120 you're switching bows every year. I appreciate that nothing by 1:23:45.160 --> 1:23:47.800 two year old, both for a lot cheaper, but there's 1:23:47.840 --> 1:23:52.040 so many come on your five Yeah, I mean, but 1:23:52.120 --> 1:23:54.040 that seems to be a better way to go. You 1:23:54.080 --> 1:23:56.160 got a bow, you know, and you know the mechanics 1:23:56.200 --> 1:23:59.120 of it. You understand what it's gonna do. Why switch yeah, 1:23:59.160 --> 1:24:01.719 I take a pretty seer siously the switch like rifles, 1:24:01.760 --> 1:24:04.960 I don't care, I'll bounce. I'm nervous about not not 1:24:05.040 --> 1:24:07.920 even like I'm not like a great shot, right but 1:24:08.560 --> 1:24:10.360 far from a great shot. But I still get nervous 1:24:10.400 --> 1:24:12.240 about switching. But then I'm like, maybe I'll be better. 1:24:12.680 --> 1:24:14.439 But it's a good thing that that industry has done. 1:24:15.040 --> 1:24:16.720 Is I think I don't know if it's slowing down now. 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:19.960 Maybe honest has perspective on this, but it'd be like 1:24:20.479 --> 1:24:23.080 it seemed like for a while, there's so many advances 1:24:23.200 --> 1:24:25.240 or they made you think they were advances, and then 1:24:25.240 --> 1:24:27.120 when you had an older bow, you were like missing 1:24:27.200 --> 1:24:29.519 out on the party. Yeah, and it's probably like a 1:24:29.600 --> 1:24:32.599 marketing creation still that way. I remember there's a particular 1:24:32.680 --> 1:24:35.000 company that used to have at a t A. They 1:24:35.040 --> 1:24:37.000 would have like a dude come in on a motorcycle 1:24:37.080 --> 1:24:39.320 with the new bow and it would be like fireworks 1:24:39.360 --> 1:24:44.080 going off and even drive they would like drive a 1:24:44.160 --> 1:24:46.400 motorcycle into their booth with the new bow and everybody 1:24:46.479 --> 1:24:48.600 be like and I'm like, what is this thing? Like 1:24:48.800 --> 1:24:51.320 is this thing shooting five fbs with a smooth draw? 1:24:51.760 --> 1:24:58.120 Like yeah, So it's but that they still every company still, 1:24:58.479 --> 1:25:01.920 you know, every company were assault in the industry still 1:25:01.920 --> 1:25:04.240 puts out a new model every year. I got a 1:25:04.280 --> 1:25:09.040 good question for you. Uh, this can like mental versus mechanics. Right, 1:25:10.040 --> 1:25:13.640 many many times I've gone down to the range just 1:25:13.840 --> 1:25:16.040 to make sure that my hunting rifle is on. All 1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:17.760 of my rifles are hunting rifles. So I don't know 1:25:17.760 --> 1:25:21.040 why I put that in there, but like I start out, 1:25:22.080 --> 1:25:25.280 get some some flyers, and then I end up adjusting 1:25:25.360 --> 1:25:28.200 my skill and then by the end of that session 1:25:28.240 --> 1:25:31.120 at the range and then readjusted it back to the 1:25:31.200 --> 1:25:41.640 original set. Mechanics or mental, I would say probably mostly mechanical. 1:25:42.760 --> 1:25:44.800 And the reason being is that depending on your rifle 1:25:44.880 --> 1:25:47.880 and conditions exact, Like I haven't shot rifle for six months, right, 1:25:47.920 --> 1:25:49.920 so you you haven't fired bullets for the board, it's 1:25:49.960 --> 1:25:52.640 not hot. As you go through it warms up, and 1:25:52.720 --> 1:25:54.560 depending on I mean, every rifle is different. It's like 1:25:54.600 --> 1:25:56.559 I've gotten to shooting a lot of long range stuff 1:25:56.960 --> 1:25:58.519 since I got out, just because it's kind of a 1:25:59.000 --> 1:26:00.760 cool gig and it brings a lot of things together 1:26:00.840 --> 1:26:04.280 for me. And uh, you do do wonder right because 1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:06.800 you're shooting these match rifles and heavy barrels. They weighed 1:26:07.120 --> 1:26:09.040 fifteen pounds or something, which is a light rifle. Now 1:26:09.040 --> 1:26:10.519 a lot of these guys are shooting twenty plus pound 1:26:10.600 --> 1:26:12.240 rifles and a lot of the camps. And so you 1:26:12.240 --> 1:26:13.720 get out there, you're all right'm gonna check my zero, 1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:15.679 make sure you go up there, and it's dead nuts. 1:26:15.880 --> 1:26:18.200 And over time you start to see trends like, well 1:26:18.240 --> 1:26:20.800 it's colder out, or it's warmer out, or you know whatever, 1:26:21.000 --> 1:26:22.960 my load changed. Is it a fresh reload or is 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:24.559 it a you know, one's been sitting there for two 1:26:24.640 --> 1:26:27.120 months that change. Ammo? It's a different lot of ammo. 1:26:27.280 --> 1:26:28.960 You know, well it's the same box. It's like, yeah, 1:26:29.000 --> 1:26:31.040 but that was that's a different bullet and a lot 1:26:31.080 --> 1:26:32.720 of different primer, a lot different case, a lot of 1:26:32.720 --> 1:26:35.880 different powdered lot. So it's the same box, but it's 1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:39.040 like everything's changed. That's why I like, you know, reloading 1:26:39.080 --> 1:26:41.680 at this point, there are way too many variable and 1:26:41.800 --> 1:26:45.160 you can just like start like spinning yourself as far 1:26:45.320 --> 1:26:46.960 down the rabbit hole as you want to go. And 1:26:47.080 --> 1:26:48.280 I think a lot of it. You know, you get 1:26:48.280 --> 1:26:50.360 into a group, you know, how you shoot, your position 1:26:50.600 --> 1:26:52.599 plays a heart in that. So you shoot some rounds through, 1:26:52.600 --> 1:26:54.280 it gets formed up, you change your position, you get 1:26:54.320 --> 1:26:56.519 used to the recoil. You know, you're tight start with 1:26:56.680 --> 1:26:58.519 and then you relax into it, so that changes things 1:26:58.560 --> 1:27:01.400 a little bit. And so yeah, there's there's a lot 1:27:01.439 --> 1:27:04.599 of variables. I would say it's mostly mechanical and that's 1:27:04.640 --> 1:27:06.519 the key. You know, people have this idea, you know, 1:27:06.640 --> 1:27:08.760 like take snipers for example, like all these guys, they 1:27:08.880 --> 1:27:11.720 just they're wizards. It's like, well, there's a lot of 1:27:11.800 --> 1:27:14.400 trends through shooting. It's like where's my cold boar shot go, 1:27:14.520 --> 1:27:16.679 where's my bullet going? It's this format, where's my bullet 1:27:16.680 --> 1:27:19.160 going him at this elevation? So you just track that 1:27:19.280 --> 1:27:20.880 and then we keep you know, dope charts. You know, 1:27:20.960 --> 1:27:23.120 you write everything down and after time, same thing with 1:27:23.160 --> 1:27:26.120 a hunting rifle. Even when I used to shoot, you know, pistol, 1:27:26.120 --> 1:27:27.760 I would keep a log every day I shot. I 1:27:27.800 --> 1:27:29.400 would write down what I did, what I worked on, 1:27:29.560 --> 1:27:32.439 what I noticed. And then over time you can flip 1:27:32.520 --> 1:27:33.800 through that and you're like, oh, you start to see 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:36.519 trends develop. And it's not something a lot of people do, 1:27:36.600 --> 1:27:38.760 but just journaling, you know, even you go to the range. Okay, 1:27:38.760 --> 1:27:40.559 go to the range. Just have a notebook and say 1:27:40.600 --> 1:27:43.040 I shot here. My gun was shooting three inches high 1:27:43.040 --> 1:27:45.559 and the left. I'm using this box, you know, maybe 1:27:45.600 --> 1:27:47.719 mark on your box of AMMO or a lot of ammoor. 1:27:47.720 --> 1:27:49.960 If reload fifty, it's easier because then it's the same. 1:27:50.479 --> 1:27:52.559 Let's say I reloaded this on this date. So then 1:27:52.600 --> 1:27:53.880 you go to the range and then you say, well, 1:27:53.920 --> 1:27:56.040 it always shoots, you know, it always starts out shooting 1:27:56.080 --> 1:27:57.439 high left, and then it goes down to the lower 1:27:57.520 --> 1:27:58.760 ride and then it goes back to the middle again. 1:27:59.400 --> 1:28:01.240 And so then you own if you're got hunting, like, okay, 1:28:01.320 --> 1:28:03.760 this frown is probably gonna go, you know, two inches 1:28:03.840 --> 1:28:05.640 high and left, even though it was zeroed off the 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:08.280 last group. Because that's what it always does. My journal 1:28:08.280 --> 1:28:10.120 would always be the same, man, be like, shot some 1:28:10.160 --> 1:28:13.439 pretty sweet shots, hit some couple flyers, ended on a 1:28:13.520 --> 1:28:17.559 good note. Yeah, my first question would be what defined 1:28:17.680 --> 1:28:19.840 what your flyers are? When you say I have a 1:28:19.920 --> 1:28:23.160 few flyers and so I start messing with my scope. Man, 1:28:24.720 --> 1:28:27.600 my my brain is strange because I have like a 1:28:27.880 --> 1:28:30.599 very very select few things where I get like super 1:28:30.680 --> 1:28:34.760 anal attendive on one is like building arrows and and 1:28:35.479 --> 1:28:40.160 even like tuning my arrows to my my bows, um 1:28:41.400 --> 1:28:45.080 and my my groups. I'm like, well, that doesn't look 1:28:45.120 --> 1:28:46.920 like a tight group to me. When I have somebody 1:28:47.000 --> 1:28:50.000 be like, well, yeah, but you're shooting an in group. 1:28:50.320 --> 1:28:52.920 How far do you really shoot? You know? So um, 1:28:53.800 --> 1:28:56.360 but something that just looks sloppy. You know. It's like, well, 1:28:57.840 --> 1:29:03.800 I got three within and four inches, uh, two hundred 1:29:03.880 --> 1:29:09.599 yards and then I got to ten inches for an example. 1:29:10.520 --> 1:29:15.080 Your group goes from four inches to ten inches. So 1:29:15.200 --> 1:29:18.840 you're saying, yeah, just just like some sloppy us. And 1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:21.120 I'm like, nope, I know I did everything right. Everything 1:29:21.200 --> 1:29:24.960 felt great, and I can't mentally wrap my head around 1:29:25.040 --> 1:29:29.880 wide how one bullet could stray a minute of elk 1:29:30.000 --> 1:29:34.000 and walk away. Do the old the old Michigan trick. 1:29:34.000 --> 1:29:35.800 Put out a pie plate at a hundred yards, Yep, 1:29:35.920 --> 1:29:38.519 hit it, We're good to go. Shot a five inch 1:29:38.560 --> 1:29:43.439 group and a hundred we're solid. Yeah, yep, those do kill. 1:29:44.360 --> 1:29:47.439 It's that's something to remember too, because I shoot, you know, 1:29:47.520 --> 1:29:49.680 you're I want a gun that shoots for shooting a 1:29:49.720 --> 1:29:51.360 match guns like half inch. A lot of guys get 1:29:51.400 --> 1:29:53.280 wrapped around and they'll do low development to the nth 1:29:53.320 --> 1:29:54.760 of green. Like I want a gun that shoots quarter 1:29:54.960 --> 1:29:56.760 m o a, it's like, well, a gun that will 1:29:56.760 --> 1:29:59.160 actually shoot true quarter m a A for like five 1:29:59.200 --> 1:30:01.880 shot groups is rare. I mean you're getting into benchres world. 1:30:02.400 --> 1:30:04.080 Think I got guns that I've done out and shot 1:30:04.240 --> 1:30:08.200 and they'll shoot seven eights pretty consistent. And as long 1:30:08.200 --> 1:30:10.160 as you're not shooting targets outside of that, I mean, 1:30:10.200 --> 1:30:11.720 think how they get target you're shooting. It's like I 1:30:11.720 --> 1:30:14.280 can shoot two Emily targets all day long. It's all 1:30:14.280 --> 1:30:17.360 about your wind calls and everything else. So I don't 1:30:17.360 --> 1:30:19.360 get too wrapped around that anymore. As long as it's 1:30:19.400 --> 1:30:21.640 a consistent load and it's you know, keeping to that 1:30:21.760 --> 1:30:24.320 same thing, it's like, well it's well under an inch 1:30:24.400 --> 1:30:26.680 half inch is great, but in for hunt rifle, it's 1:30:26.680 --> 1:30:29.200 like a shooting an inch, Like that's pretty solid. But 1:30:29.400 --> 1:30:35.240 that's good. Chuck Christopher, it's a big competitive bench ResQue 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:38.320 guy out of Idaho. I don't um I'd go down. 1:30:38.479 --> 1:30:42.880 He's got a facility built at his house, basically like 1:30:42.960 --> 1:30:47.720 a bunker on the hillside. I think you should have yeah, 1:30:48.040 --> 1:30:53.040 flat tire ranch um fitting and I used to go 1:30:53.200 --> 1:30:54.840 up there to try to like site my rifles in 1:30:54.960 --> 1:30:59.760 with him, and it was just the most it's it's 1:30:59.800 --> 1:31:03.080 a add experience. You share the eggs at yards and 1:31:03.120 --> 1:31:05.439 stuff like that, and he is so dialed and he's 1:31:05.479 --> 1:31:09.519 so he's got his process down and his process and 1:31:09.800 --> 1:31:13.479 like the hunting equivalency like they just do not meet, 1:31:15.040 --> 1:31:18.679 like like it's not real world. It's almost a different sport. 1:31:18.680 --> 1:31:21.599 When you're talking about some of that bench rest complete, 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:25.200 it's amazing those guys are shooting four or five inch 1:31:25.240 --> 1:31:28.400 groups at a thousand though consistently like their eggs or 1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:31.200 you know, they'll shoot like three matches and they're shooting 1:31:31.439 --> 1:31:34.160 five inch groups four inch groups with a little six 1:31:34.240 --> 1:31:36.679 mil or something coldly cow. You know. It's funny about 1:31:36.680 --> 1:31:38.640 when you talk about the consistency and the consistency of 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:41.080 the equipment is the way that there's this idea that 1:31:41.240 --> 1:31:44.559 back in Boon's era that these guys are like these 1:31:44.600 --> 1:31:48.240 expert marksmen, you know that they like shoot and split 1:31:48.400 --> 1:31:50.760 lead on hatchets and stuff like that. It's like when 1:31:50.800 --> 1:31:56.200 you think about that they were hand pouring bullets, sometimes 1:31:56.400 --> 1:32:01.240 making their own gunpowder and then having shooting rifles that 1:32:01.439 --> 1:32:06.880 were that were rifled by hand. You're like, and then 1:32:07.040 --> 1:32:09.000 people like they have this sing like this right old 1:32:09.040 --> 1:32:11.160 tick liquor. You know, it could shoot the tick off 1:32:11.320 --> 1:32:14.720 a possum, or can split bullets on hatchet heads of twos. 1:32:14.760 --> 1:32:16.880 It's like, it would be so nice to be able 1:32:16.880 --> 1:32:19.840 to go back in time to see Daniel Boone and 1:32:19.920 --> 1:32:22.320 his compatriots. I remember, like if you read of that 1:32:22.560 --> 1:32:25.880 that account, there are accounts that people would complain about 1:32:26.680 --> 1:32:29.560 um people out in the settlements, how they would just 1:32:29.640 --> 1:32:31.640 shoot all day long, how lazy they were because if 1:32:31.640 --> 1:32:33.439 they weren't out hunting, they would just shoot. But to 1:32:33.520 --> 1:32:35.320 go back and like what kind of groups with those 1:32:35.360 --> 1:32:38.280 guys actually throwing it would have been interesting because the 1:32:38.640 --> 1:32:42.800 mythology is this like real you know, these like super 1:32:42.880 --> 1:32:46.040 accurate heart shot every time. But when you think about 1:32:46.080 --> 1:32:49.320 the inconsistencies of all the equipment, it must have been 1:32:49.439 --> 1:32:52.639 some sloppy ass shooting back then, Like there's no way 1:32:52.680 --> 1:32:55.200 they could have gotten good, Like how good could you 1:32:55.280 --> 1:32:58.200 get when every shot is just something so different? I 1:32:58.240 --> 1:33:01.320 don't know. In some ways I had inclined to agree 1:33:01.400 --> 1:33:03.280 just because of the quality, But then you had a 1:33:03.320 --> 1:33:05.599 lot of guys that were true craftsmen that could build. 1:33:05.640 --> 1:33:08.519 I mean that's why who built the rifle mattered, because 1:33:08.560 --> 1:33:10.200 you had guys that you said, we're throwing stuff together. 1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:12.680 But you look at guys that try and recreate some 1:33:12.760 --> 1:33:14.920 of that stuff, and they're using modern day C and 1:33:14.960 --> 1:33:16.760 C machines in the whole line yards and like, I'm 1:33:16.800 --> 1:33:19.479 having trouble getting to where this guy was consistently kind 1:33:19.520 --> 1:33:22.400 of making things, you know, handmade, like trying to replicate 1:33:22.479 --> 1:33:24.760 how they did this. It's pretty wild. And then if 1:33:24.800 --> 1:33:26.120 you go back and you look at the Civil War, 1:33:26.280 --> 1:33:28.599 you look at some of these some of these different 1:33:28.680 --> 1:33:30.760 rifles that these guys were shooting. I mean, you had 1:33:30.760 --> 1:33:33.360 guys that were shooting eight nine hundred yards in the 1:33:33.439 --> 1:33:35.519 Civil War that we're taking some of these you know 1:33:35.640 --> 1:33:38.719 creed More rifles and stuff, and they were sniping guys 1:33:39.360 --> 1:33:42.639 crazy distances. And or you go to the black Powder 1:33:42.680 --> 1:33:45.080 the Buffalo rifles, and you look at what those guys shoot, 1:33:45.200 --> 1:33:46.800 you know, like they have the quickly shoots and they 1:33:46.840 --> 1:33:49.680 shoot these black power It's crazy. What and they're doing 1:33:49.720 --> 1:33:51.519 the same thing. Those guys are you know, pouring those 1:33:51.560 --> 1:33:53.559 are say boats and you know they're not shooting round balls. 1:33:53.640 --> 1:33:56.600 But it's it's still sometimes I wonder. I'm like, I 1:33:56.680 --> 1:33:58.720 wonder if they like did have this figured out, if 1:33:58.760 --> 1:34:01.120 it's you know, like like the Pyramids, or like, I 1:34:01.120 --> 1:34:02.960 don't know how they did it, but here's the result, 1:34:03.120 --> 1:34:04.519 you know, if they were legit or if it's like 1:34:04.600 --> 1:34:06.479 you know, it's kind of oh yeah, he was a 1:34:06.520 --> 1:34:08.599 great shot. He could you know, shoot the takeoff of Bossum. 1:34:08.680 --> 1:34:11.400 It's like there's a there's a thing in group at 1:34:11.439 --> 1:34:13.360 fifty yards and never else you're shooting a foot group, 1:34:13.439 --> 1:34:15.400 you know, Like I don't know, there's a thing called 1:34:15.439 --> 1:34:18.479 the Battle of Adobe Walls, when the bad at the 1:34:18.479 --> 1:34:20.400 Battle of Adobe Walls. It was a bunch of buffalo 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:23.880 hunters down on the Southern Plains when they weren't supposed 1:34:23.880 --> 1:34:26.759 to hunt south of the Southern Railroad, but they started 1:34:26.800 --> 1:34:28.400 going down there and they got into a skirmish. I 1:34:28.400 --> 1:34:30.120 can't remember what tribes they got into a skirmish with, 1:34:30.240 --> 1:34:34.439 but there's this legend this guy making a shot, a 1:34:34.600 --> 1:34:36.920 thousand plus yard shot, and I was like, how much 1:34:37.040 --> 1:34:40.000 did he walk out and be like, haile married it 1:34:40.640 --> 1:34:42.639 and happened to hit someone, and how much did he'd 1:34:42.640 --> 1:34:44.879 be like here's what's gonna happen. It seems like hyperbole 1:34:45.080 --> 1:34:49.760 was pretty prevalent in that culture too, So this shot 1:34:49.880 --> 1:34:54.360 was substantiated by multiple sources because there was the the 1:34:54.400 --> 1:34:57.800 adobe walls thing. Yeah, and they credited that shot with 1:34:58.080 --> 1:35:00.439 ending the battle. But I'm saying, how much, like how 1:35:00.520 --> 1:35:02.400 much did he just go out and wing one out there? 1:35:02.439 --> 1:35:04.760 And he was more surprising and more surprised than the 1:35:04.800 --> 1:35:08.439 guy he hit. And I believe those it wasn't because 1:35:08.479 --> 1:35:13.360 it was like a little trade center, right, like trading post. 1:35:13.439 --> 1:35:17.400 And one of the accounts that I read like those 1:35:17.400 --> 1:35:22.439 are brand new rifles, like somebody brought them in to 1:35:22.600 --> 1:35:26.920 then sell and when. Um, because this was in Empire 1:35:26.920 --> 1:35:31.880 of the Summer Moon Ranche. I know it from Dan Flore. 1:35:31.960 --> 1:35:36.400 He's talking about it, and the way Dan Flores presents 1:35:36.479 --> 1:35:40.920 it is from the buffalo hunter's perspective, it was this 1:35:41.120 --> 1:35:46.479 long shot that's so stunned their adversaries. Um, like the 1:35:46.560 --> 1:35:48.679 hand of God is against us, We're just gonna go ahead. 1:35:49.800 --> 1:35:55.240 From the tribal perspective, someone had on the way to 1:35:55.320 --> 1:36:00.880 the battle, someone had killed a skunk and was taboo 1:36:01.960 --> 1:36:06.519 to kill a skunk ahead of a battle, or taboo 1:36:06.560 --> 1:36:09.360 to kill a skunk in general, and when like that 1:36:09.560 --> 1:36:15.080 man fell, it was affirmation that someone had violated a taboo. 1:36:17.760 --> 1:36:20.840 And that's their perspective on why that battle went south. 1:36:21.960 --> 1:36:23.760 So I asked Dan Floorys, I'm like, who was right, 1:36:24.960 --> 1:36:28.160 and he's like, both of them. You got hit viable 1:36:28.800 --> 1:36:32.160 and that's the derivation of like getting skunked. Right. I'm 1:36:32.200 --> 1:36:34.559 not sure, but I like it. But yeah, I mean 1:36:34.600 --> 1:36:38.760 I've heard the same It all plays out the exact 1:36:38.800 --> 1:36:43.000 same way, obviously, but I've heard, um there's a uh, 1:36:43.560 --> 1:36:47.240 you know, a very reputable shaman type character who said, 1:36:47.840 --> 1:36:54.080 you know, we go do this tech, I guarantee nobody 1:36:54.160 --> 1:36:58.479 will get touched. And then at the very outbreak, obviously 1:36:58.520 --> 1:37:01.200 somebody gets touched and in a baby way, and it 1:37:01.320 --> 1:37:05.439 was like, well all over, good, mojo is is gone. Shot. Yeah, 1:37:05.479 --> 1:37:07.400 it could have been a skunk, could have been whatever. 1:37:07.600 --> 1:37:10.920 There were two battles of adobe walls, and it was 1:37:11.240 --> 1:37:15.640 a very small amount of hide hunters defending like a 1:37:15.720 --> 1:37:19.960 little encampment from hundreds of adversaries, but with high falute 1:37:19.960 --> 1:37:24.679 and equipment, yeah, like big fifty col uh buffalo rifles. 1:37:24.720 --> 1:37:26.360 And in the one account I read, they were like 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:30.040 brand new in box like trade goods. Right, So then 1:37:30.120 --> 1:37:34.000 like break about boys, we're under attack? Yeah, what did 1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:36.560 we missed? Steth? What is there? More? Is there like 1:37:36.680 --> 1:37:41.479 any uh marksmanship business that I should ask you about it? 1:37:41.520 --> 1:37:43.599 Never did? I want to ask about big boar pistols. 1:37:43.640 --> 1:37:46.479 How much experience do you have with them? Not a lot? 1:37:46.920 --> 1:37:49.840 I've shot? Uh. I went up to Alaska just in 1:37:49.960 --> 1:37:51.840 actually during college. I had a buddy that was a 1:37:52.640 --> 1:37:54.599 little bit younger than me that just graduated high school. 1:37:54.600 --> 1:37:56.160 So I first started college, we went up to Alaska. 1:37:56.200 --> 1:37:59.280 So I bought a forty four mag put them hardcast bullets, 1:37:59.280 --> 1:38:00.800 like we're going to bear a country. Time to get 1:38:00.840 --> 1:38:03.200 a little bigger peciooter. So I shot that a little bit. 1:38:03.240 --> 1:38:05.200 I've shot like four sixties and some of that stuff, 1:38:05.240 --> 1:38:07.800 but not a lot. You know, is it a lot 1:38:07.920 --> 1:38:09.880 harder or is it still just in your head the 1:38:10.200 --> 1:38:12.360 fact that you're dealing with this thing that just barks 1:38:12.439 --> 1:38:17.040 and makes your hand hurt so bad? Similar concepts, you know, 1:38:17.200 --> 1:38:21.080 It's it's definitely different. It's like driving a race. Carver's 1:38:21.240 --> 1:38:28.320 driving a you know, I don't know something. Yeah, I'm 1:38:28.360 --> 1:38:31.160 like it's a little different, but yeah, similar ideas, you know, 1:38:31.320 --> 1:38:35.200 breaking the trigger, keeping your keeping your sightes tight and 1:38:35.280 --> 1:38:38.720 breaking the trigger, and yeah, it's similar concepts, but it 1:38:39.280 --> 1:38:41.639 takes some muscle memory to get past the blast for sure, 1:38:42.040 --> 1:38:45.439 because like what you're speaking to is like a forty 1:38:45.479 --> 1:38:50.320 four mag with a four inch barrel. Yeah, how uncomfortable, 1:38:50.560 --> 1:38:55.320 how uncomfortable it is. And then how stunningly inaccurate one is. Well, 1:38:56.240 --> 1:38:58.519 they can be accurate, but I've always thought of those. 1:38:58.800 --> 1:39:00.840 You know, it's like, how light can we make a 1:39:00.880 --> 1:39:03.240 four fifty four so that it's easy to carry in 1:39:03.280 --> 1:39:05.720 bear country? Right? And then you're shooting the or a 1:39:05.840 --> 1:39:09.000 five hundred and it weighs, you know, two pounds versus 1:39:09.080 --> 1:39:11.840 like the four that it should weigh. Plus It's like, 1:39:11.920 --> 1:39:13.600 to me, that's what we call a get off me, 1:39:13.680 --> 1:39:17.360 bro weapon. You know, it's like the bears right here. 1:39:17.439 --> 1:39:19.080 It's like it's me to you, I just gotta be 1:39:19.120 --> 1:39:20.800 able to get that thing to bark and get it 1:39:20.880 --> 1:39:24.080 out and shoot at ten ft. I'm not I'm not 1:39:24.120 --> 1:39:25.479 gonna be go out and trying to smoke a bear 1:39:25.560 --> 1:39:27.360 with that thing at a hundred fifty yards. I might 1:39:27.400 --> 1:39:29.400 be getting this story wrong with someone was telling me 1:39:29.439 --> 1:39:31.599 about they had these They had a bunch of guides 1:39:31.680 --> 1:39:37.280 who carry revolvers short barreled revolvers is bear protection. It 1:39:37.360 --> 1:39:38.960 did something where they put him at the bottom of 1:39:39.000 --> 1:39:44.960 a hill and some guy rolls a basketball down the hill. Okay, 1:39:44.960 --> 1:39:46.840 I think I could be MESSI do you know this 1:39:46.920 --> 1:39:52.840 story before hit and that's the thing you're supposed to 1:39:52.920 --> 1:39:54.360 hit this bear in the head with as he's coming 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:56.839 down on you. Well and until your point about protection, 1:39:56.920 --> 1:39:58.920 So if you're shooting a hunting pistol or something, then 1:39:58.920 --> 1:40:00.599 that's stiff. You don't put a scope hunt or maybe 1:40:00.640 --> 1:40:03.120 that's different. And I've I was talking to a kid 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:04.920 whose dad used to hunt with a with a pistol 1:40:04.960 --> 1:40:06.240 and he was one of those guys that shot the 1:40:06.280 --> 1:40:09.120 big board like the four sixty rowlands and all those 1:40:09.280 --> 1:40:12.160 the wheel guns. And his dad, I guess, was one 1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:14.400 of those pistol arrow types that he just he's put 1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:17.439 tens of thousands around to it's one gun. And he 1:40:17.560 --> 1:40:19.240 was telling stories. They were breaking him. He need break 1:40:19.240 --> 1:40:21.160 cleay pages on hundred yards with this thing all the time. 1:40:21.640 --> 1:40:23.000 You know, rabbit would come around now and he just 1:40:23.320 --> 1:40:25.559 smoked this rabbit, you know, And there's tons of stories 1:40:25.560 --> 1:40:27.519 throughout the frontier days of pistol arrows that could just 1:40:27.640 --> 1:40:29.680 make incredible you like at Bob Munden, how fast that 1:40:29.720 --> 1:40:31.120 guy could draw and shoot. It's like you can't even 1:40:31.160 --> 1:40:33.120 see him. It's like ba boom, Like okay, I guess 1:40:33.160 --> 1:40:38.040 it's legit. You know Ross pistol shot. Well yeah, but 1:40:38.160 --> 1:40:40.599 you know, like as Bob Ross is slow, this guy's fast. 1:40:40.640 --> 1:40:43.360 So it's like, you know, polar opposites, you know. And uh, 1:40:43.880 --> 1:40:45.360 he's like, yeah, my dad used to go shoot. He 1:40:45.400 --> 1:40:48.960 went and shot a brown bear in Canada. Last guy, 1:40:48.960 --> 1:40:51.280 I guess, and he shot the singing like a hundred 1:40:51.320 --> 1:40:53.680 forty yards. It was standing up and he shot right 1:40:53.680 --> 1:40:55.400 in the center of the chest. But he said they 1:40:55.400 --> 1:40:57.920 went out with the guide, you know. I mean, kids 1:40:57.960 --> 1:40:59.479 is telling stories, but I'm sure you know he can 1:40:59.479 --> 1:41:01.599 back them up. And other guys like, gah, that's dude, 1:41:01.600 --> 1:41:03.639 I've never seen make shoot pistol like this iron sights. 1:41:03.960 --> 1:41:05.760 So we're gonna go site in our hunting rifle and 1:41:06.120 --> 1:41:07.439 his guys kind of the same way to put up 1:41:07.439 --> 1:41:09.680 a paper plate. Shoot, you know, three shots on it. Yep, 1:41:09.720 --> 1:41:11.880 they're all on the plate. We're good to go. And 1:41:12.240 --> 1:41:13.400 this guy sting with a pistol. He's like a you 1:41:13.439 --> 1:41:15.160 shooting on a hunt a brown bear with a pistol. Boy, 1:41:15.280 --> 1:41:16.400 you know what kind of thing. He's like, sure, So 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:19.080 he gets up there off hand, shoots four rounds I 1:41:19.160 --> 1:41:20.800 think on this plate or five rounds. I don't think 1:41:20.800 --> 1:41:22.640 the five rounds. Goes up there and it's like a 1:41:22.720 --> 1:41:25.080 four inch group on this plate a hundred yards, and 1:41:25.120 --> 1:41:27.479 he's like, literally, he shot a better group off hand 1:41:27.520 --> 1:41:29.479 with his pistol than the guy did shooting off the hood. 1:41:30.200 --> 1:41:32.120 And so the guys like, well, I guess. So there's 1:41:32.160 --> 1:41:34.760 guys out there, and I've known a couple that they 1:41:34.800 --> 1:41:38.040 shoot big bore stuff and take crazy accurate. But for me, 1:41:39.040 --> 1:41:41.519 my the gun I carry is a clock ten mill 1:41:42.000 --> 1:41:46.280 hardcast bullets because sometimes volumes volume is better than one. 1:41:46.320 --> 1:41:48.200 I get one off for the five hund to get 1:41:48.240 --> 1:41:50.080 that thing out, like I can. I can shut a 1:41:50.080 --> 1:41:52.680 clock pretty quick. So and I got ten rounds in 1:41:52.760 --> 1:41:54.840 that thing. So if I got a bear this to 1:41:54.920 --> 1:41:56.519 start chewing on me, I can get three or four 1:41:56.600 --> 1:41:59.880 off hopefully before I get knocked down. And so that's 1:42:00.000 --> 1:42:01.519 that's where I'm at. It's a it's a platform I'm 1:42:01.600 --> 1:42:03.640 used to and what are you doing this fall? I 1:42:03.680 --> 1:42:05.400 want to get together and hunt, like where I have 1:42:05.560 --> 1:42:08.840 tag and you don't watch for bears. You got it 1:42:09.520 --> 1:42:12.720 guessing it's going to be somewhere towards the direction over there, 1:42:13.120 --> 1:42:17.360 over there. That's the thing man bears have been. You know, 1:42:17.439 --> 1:42:19.280 there's a lot of areas I've hunted and been around 1:42:19.320 --> 1:42:20.760 and I've never hunted. You know. You get down to 1:42:20.800 --> 1:42:22.479 like tom On or Basin or some of those areas. 1:42:23.000 --> 1:42:26.519 Guys that won't hunt there anymore, they're like, I I 1:42:26.640 --> 1:42:28.320 used to hunt there every year, but we were it's 1:42:28.320 --> 1:42:30.080 not if you run into a bear, It's like, what's 1:42:30.120 --> 1:42:32.240 the situation gonna be like? And it's every year. They're like, 1:42:32.280 --> 1:42:34.240 it's not worth it. You're walking out in your head lamp. 1:42:34.320 --> 1:42:36.240 It's like, you know, it's always kind of that, oh 1:42:36.320 --> 1:42:37.920 there's something in the night. It's like, well there is, 1:42:38.080 --> 1:42:39.720 you know, and like you're gonna run into them at 1:42:39.760 --> 1:42:42.519 some point, Like yeah, outfitters that don't work in certain 1:42:42.560 --> 1:42:46.160 areas because they're still because you're so bad on feeding 1:42:46.200 --> 1:42:48.439 it just as hard the bears. Just like what are 1:42:48.439 --> 1:42:50.680 you gonna do about a buddy? Yeah, you can't hurt me, 1:42:50.720 --> 1:42:53.080 now what you do about it now, you got any 1:42:53.120 --> 1:42:54.960 more you want to hit? Yeah, well, we had an 1:42:55.000 --> 1:42:59.000 email coming about the definition of loaded. Yeah, I think 1:42:59.040 --> 1:43:02.519 that would have been saving to talk about. Well, it's legal, 1:43:02.600 --> 1:43:06.000 it's a legal question. It is. Well, but no, because 1:43:06.800 --> 1:43:09.679 the weekend I've posed it to a couple of different 1:43:09.760 --> 1:43:14.479 people and uh, everybody's kind of got two answers. That's 1:43:14.479 --> 1:43:17.599 a good question. So he's a the guy's a lawyer. Yeah, 1:43:17.600 --> 1:43:22.240 I think it's a gap. Yeah, you want me to 1:43:22.640 --> 1:43:25.000 spell it out? Yeah, I read this. I actually saved 1:43:25.080 --> 1:43:26.760 this to talk about I didn't get to it. Yeah, 1:43:27.280 --> 1:43:29.280 she the I was trying to do my best here 1:43:29.320 --> 1:43:31.720 to make it simple for when she was in the courtroom, 1:43:32.160 --> 1:43:35.720 and I think that it was it came down to 1:43:35.800 --> 1:43:41.680 the definition of loaded, because too um for the perpetrator 1:43:41.800 --> 1:43:47.320 to be charged with aggravated assault, the gun had to 1:43:47.400 --> 1:43:50.000 be loaded. So then they came down to, well, what 1:43:50.280 --> 1:43:54.080 is loaded, because if it's not, then the punishment is 1:43:54.080 --> 1:43:55.920 not gonna be severe or the charge won't be as 1:43:55.960 --> 1:43:59.240 severe as if it is. And she says, well, the 1:43:59.520 --> 1:44:01.760 mag was full, and the other guy says, well, no, 1:44:01.880 --> 1:44:04.160 if it didn't have one in the chamber. So it 1:44:04.360 --> 1:44:07.840 wasn't loaded, So it's not you know, like he was saying, 1:44:07.920 --> 1:44:11.000 I'll shoot you. But if he actually can't shoot because 1:44:11.040 --> 1:44:13.760 he doesn't have a loaded weapon, then that's where like 1:44:13.920 --> 1:44:17.439 the gray area was. So she's like, dude, I for 1:44:17.560 --> 1:44:20.760 sure thought that you know, low you know in the 1:44:20.840 --> 1:44:23.599 magazine means loaded. And she went home and has been, 1:44:23.680 --> 1:44:25.879 you know, talking to other people about it and everybody, 1:44:25.920 --> 1:44:29.559 and she seems to be Uh. She wants to argue, 1:44:29.880 --> 1:44:32.519 wasn't She wants to argue that her client's gun wasn't 1:44:32.600 --> 1:44:35.760 loaded because he didn't have one chambered. No, she's saying 1:44:35.800 --> 1:44:40.559 that it was what she wants whoever where she stands 1:44:40.560 --> 1:44:43.160 on the case. But she's wanting to argue that having 1:44:43.280 --> 1:44:46.960 it having a loaded magazine counts for a loaded weapon. 1:44:47.640 --> 1:44:50.519 I think when you're talking about pointing it at a person, 1:44:52.560 --> 1:44:55.160 if you're out hunting, and he said, is that thing loaded? No, 1:44:56.520 --> 1:44:59.400 having some of the magazine, it is not loaded if 1:44:59.400 --> 1:45:01.640 it's not cham bird the minute I pointed at you, 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:04.840 like if I point a revolver at you and it 1:45:04.960 --> 1:45:07.160 winds up that I have an empty cylinder in there, 1:45:07.600 --> 1:45:10.200 and and uh, and I got an empty cylinder and 1:45:10.320 --> 1:45:12.680 he says that loaded, and I'm like, no, when I'm 1:45:12.720 --> 1:45:15.880 pointing at you, I feel that it's a different it's 1:45:15.880 --> 1:45:19.760 a completely different set of rules. Well, what's the definition for, 1:45:19.960 --> 1:45:22.200 like for what you can I was just just how 1:45:22.360 --> 1:45:25.000 you I was just looking up the So we have 1:45:25.160 --> 1:45:27.720 different aspects, right, So you can carry, you know, you 1:45:27.800 --> 1:45:30.840 have different methods of carry. So you can carry loaded 1:45:30.920 --> 1:45:33.360 round in the chamber on safe, load round the chamber, 1:45:33.400 --> 1:45:37.360 off save loaded, no round in the chamber. So you've 1:45:37.360 --> 1:45:39.479 got different ways that you carry in the military. So 1:45:39.560 --> 1:45:41.160 like you're on a post and like, well you can't 1:45:41.160 --> 1:45:42.679 carry with the chamber, but you can carry it loaded 1:45:42.720 --> 1:45:44.400 or you carry can't hear it with the magazine period. 1:45:44.920 --> 1:45:47.120 So I don't know. I think it's gonna depend on 1:45:47.160 --> 1:45:49.640 the definition. I don't think Montone Code has anything that 1:45:49.760 --> 1:45:51.720 deals with that. I was just looking it up. Well, 1:45:51.760 --> 1:45:58.519 states person, she was in Idaho. I would be surprised 1:45:58.560 --> 1:46:01.479 if they have a definition of a loaded firearms. There 1:46:01.640 --> 1:46:04.920 is something to challenge, man. But there is some law 1:46:05.040 --> 1:46:06.599 and I would have to look it up that deals 1:46:06.680 --> 1:46:11.559 with concealed carry because there there's a law that says 1:46:11.640 --> 1:46:16.120 basically you can like brandishing a firearm is defined, and 1:46:16.200 --> 1:46:18.760 I don't think they've ever defined whether or not you 1:46:18.800 --> 1:46:21.120 know what loaded means or if you're branising a firearm, 1:46:21.160 --> 1:46:23.360 if it matters if it's loaded or not. It's there's 1:46:23.439 --> 1:46:25.160 kind of that's the only thing I've ever seen broken. 1:46:25.200 --> 1:46:27.240 Now you're saying in the military they use the term 1:46:27.360 --> 1:46:30.240 loaded for both situations, right, loaded in the magazine or 1:46:30.400 --> 1:46:33.000 loaded in the chamber. Well, they basically color code them, 1:46:33.160 --> 1:46:34.639 so you can carry red or you can carry black, 1:46:34.680 --> 1:46:37.080 and black means this, red means this. So lord, it's 1:46:37.080 --> 1:46:40.200 too broad, right, It's just here's the definition for it. 1:46:40.600 --> 1:46:45.080 How chambered is a better? Yea makes sense. Yeah, loaded 1:46:45.520 --> 1:46:48.519 is too broad in the hunting context as well, because 1:46:48.560 --> 1:46:50.720 guy levels off, let's get let's go with the pump 1:46:50.760 --> 1:46:53.840 action shotgun. Guy levels off on him with a pump 1:46:53.920 --> 1:46:56.880 action shotgun, and he's got tube full, none in the chamber, 1:46:57.520 --> 1:46:59.559 and then someone later wants to be well, it wasn't 1:46:59.600 --> 1:47:02.320 really low. It could have been like I'd be like, 1:47:02.880 --> 1:47:04.880 if I was a lawyer, I would say, no, one's 1:47:04.920 --> 1:47:09.000 ever been killed by a bullet in the magazine. Yeah, 1:47:09.840 --> 1:47:11.639 there's not a If there's not a round in the chamber, 1:47:12.160 --> 1:47:14.040 that gun is not gonna kill you. You just said 1:47:14.320 --> 1:47:17.080 it's loaded or chambered. Right, it's loaded. If there's any 1:47:17.200 --> 1:47:19.280 it's one of the magazine, it's chambered. If there's one 1:47:19.280 --> 1:47:21.599 of the chamber, right, that's that's what I would say. Yeah, 1:47:21.600 --> 1:47:24.160 I'm good. I'm trying to jump into multiple perspective trying. 1:47:24.280 --> 1:47:26.600 I'm taking the perspective of someone having aimed at me, 1:47:26.960 --> 1:47:29.280 who would later be like, I don't want to parse 1:47:29.520 --> 1:47:31.920 hairs here. You loaded the aid of the damn thing 1:47:31.960 --> 1:47:34.759 at me, Like, let's stop it. I could stop it aimed, 1:47:34.920 --> 1:47:38.679 but I could also see the point where in the court, 1:47:38.880 --> 1:47:40.479 like if I was getting if I was in trouble 1:47:40.560 --> 1:47:43.560 for having done that to someone else, I could imagine 1:47:43.640 --> 1:47:48.360 myself arguing very vehemently that it was in fact not loaded. Yeah, 1:47:48.400 --> 1:47:50.160 but you say, the level of the threat is if 1:47:50.520 --> 1:47:52.320 if you have to do that, you know, pump a 1:47:52.360 --> 1:47:54.800 shotgun rather than pull a trigger. The level of threat 1:47:54.880 --> 1:47:58.600 is different than both those like, it wasn't loaded, It 1:47:58.800 --> 1:48:02.960 wasn't loaded. It was loaded, but wasn't chambers. I think 1:48:03.000 --> 1:48:06.400 you have to you have to lawyer that life is 1:48:06.560 --> 1:48:10.080 hanging on the definition of this word. Not like they're 1:48:10.080 --> 1:48:13.080 going to get capital. No, I'd like to think that 1:48:13.160 --> 1:48:16.200 there was a were really he was in the chamber 1:48:16.280 --> 1:48:19.439 and they're like waiting to to to give him the drip, 1:48:19.840 --> 1:48:22.320 pending on what we just what we decided. No, she 1:48:22.479 --> 1:48:25.120 was just curious more about the common usage in our 1:48:25.400 --> 1:48:28.000 in our circles. In our circle, it would be that 1:48:28.080 --> 1:48:30.800 it was not loaded. I'll say that it would be 1:48:30.880 --> 1:48:32.720 that there's not around in the chamber. It's not likely 1:48:32.840 --> 1:48:35.000 I would say to you, is that thing loaded? And 1:48:35.160 --> 1:48:40.320 you say no, I'm thinking, very well, have a magazine 1:48:40.360 --> 1:48:42.560 in it. But there's nothing changed. Man. I feel like, 1:48:43.040 --> 1:48:45.439 you know, this was twenty years ago I took hunter safety, 1:48:45.640 --> 1:48:48.960 but I feel like I learned learned it different. I think, 1:48:49.040 --> 1:48:51.559 I mean, this is in Washington. Maybe the rules are different, 1:48:51.920 --> 1:48:54.519 but I remember being told you cannot have a loaded 1:48:54.960 --> 1:48:57.679 gun in a car. And you know what, in that case, 1:48:57.720 --> 1:48:59.639 you're right. In that case, it can't have a magazine 1:48:59.760 --> 1:49:02.439 because act And so I'm so when when Yanni brought 1:49:02.479 --> 1:49:04.360 this up the other day, I'm like, well, I mean, like, 1:49:04.600 --> 1:49:07.960 if if you're coming back from hunting, you get pulled over, 1:49:08.360 --> 1:49:11.559 officer asks do you have a gun in the car? Yes? 1:49:11.720 --> 1:49:15.800 Or isn't loaded? You. You better be able to say no, 1:49:16.160 --> 1:49:19.880 and you better have the bullets around. That's a good point, right. 1:49:19.960 --> 1:49:22.000 We just got a letter from a woman who went 1:49:23.520 --> 1:49:25.880 her family was all going fishing. This is an Idaho 1:49:25.960 --> 1:49:28.240 story to her family's all going fishing and they go 1:49:28.360 --> 1:49:30.880 down to a park and the dad's fishing with the 1:49:30.960 --> 1:49:34.400 kids and she's reading her book. It's something or another 1:49:34.520 --> 1:49:37.680 happens where someone's got to leave and they give her 1:49:37.720 --> 1:49:40.560 the rod. And so she's just holding a rod on 1:49:40.680 --> 1:49:42.560 the grass, holding a rod, and someone comes up and 1:49:42.640 --> 1:49:46.760 checks her license. She doesn't have a license, so I'm 1:49:46.800 --> 1:49:49.280 not fishing. But I'm like, yes, I'm Ada Laike holding 1:49:49.320 --> 1:49:51.440 the rob. I didn't fish. And they give her a citation, 1:49:52.720 --> 1:49:55.880 but she argues that court gets thrown out. Really, yeah, 1:49:56.439 --> 1:49:58.679 I didn't fish. I had a rod at a lake 1:49:59.080 --> 1:50:02.160 because whatever her husband said, hold the rod, I think, 1:50:02.920 --> 1:50:05.320 and he came up. She and this is her claim, 1:50:05.439 --> 1:50:07.960 is that this individual came up the second she touched 1:50:08.000 --> 1:50:11.680 that rod. Got you. Oh, well, that's where you go 1:50:11.800 --> 1:50:13.720 back to the you know, one of the other things 1:50:13.760 --> 1:50:15.840 that moonlight as a reserve police officer, So I get 1:50:15.880 --> 1:50:17.080 to play with some of this on the other side 1:50:17.600 --> 1:50:19.200 and then one thing they talked about a lot when 1:50:19.240 --> 1:50:21.760 you're looking at how to enforce laws, because I mean, 1:50:21.880 --> 1:50:24.400 there's obviously ambiguity in a lot of areas, and as 1:50:24.439 --> 1:50:27.759 a legislator, I don't want there to be strict clarity 1:50:27.800 --> 1:50:29.960 where you're gonna go through and define everything down to 1:50:30.080 --> 1:50:32.840 every level, because then you're gonna have double the size 1:50:32.840 --> 1:50:35.960 of code. I would rather live in a state where 1:50:36.120 --> 1:50:38.400 people use common sense and say, hey, you know this, 1:50:38.680 --> 1:50:41.000 this lawsayes don't do this. So this is obviously what 1:50:41.160 --> 1:50:43.720 it means, so just don't do that. But that's where 1:50:43.720 --> 1:50:45.320 you talk about the spirit of the law versus a 1:50:45.400 --> 1:50:47.160 letter of the laws, like what is this law designed 1:50:47.200 --> 1:50:49.519 to do? And so as law enforcement, whether that's you know, 1:50:49.600 --> 1:50:51.800 fishing wildlife and you know, we had some hits with that, 1:50:51.920 --> 1:50:54.599 like tagged immediately upon kill. Well that got changed before 1:50:54.760 --> 1:50:56.599 moving it because the guy got a ticket and he's like, well, 1:50:57.160 --> 1:50:58.719 I haven't moved it. We're gutting it. But I didn't 1:50:58.720 --> 1:51:02.000 take it. He's like said, don't what is this actually accomplished? 1:51:02.040 --> 1:51:04.479 If I don't take this thing now versus five minutes 1:51:04.479 --> 1:51:06.120 from now, it doesn't do anything. The idea is that 1:51:06.160 --> 1:51:08.840 you can't move it around and transport it, because then 1:51:08.840 --> 1:51:10.120 if you get caught, you're like, oh, I was gonna 1:51:10.200 --> 1:51:13.240 tag it. It's like, but you didn't. So I think 1:51:13.280 --> 1:51:14.680 that's where you get to this. Like you said, is 1:51:14.720 --> 1:51:17.360 it unloaded? It's like everybody knows, like, hey, can you 1:51:17.439 --> 1:51:19.080 shoot me with this gun? Or is it taking apart 1:51:19.120 --> 1:51:21.479 and put in a bag. That's kind of the definition 1:51:21.520 --> 1:51:23.599 where if you're pointing it at me, it's like, well 1:51:23.680 --> 1:51:25.240 to have around in the chamber. So I think a 1:51:25.280 --> 1:51:27.800 lot of that comes down to interpretation of letter of 1:51:27.840 --> 1:51:31.080 the law or the spirit of the law. It's gonna 1:51:31.120 --> 1:51:33.559 have to figured out speaking a letter to the law 1:51:33.880 --> 1:51:37.439 boy that we wanted to hit on. And this is 1:51:37.520 --> 1:51:40.240 like a real I can already like if people want 1:51:40.280 --> 1:51:44.960 to stop listening, they can go ahead, they can go ahead, 1:51:45.520 --> 1:51:48.680 But I was about to drone on about some we're 1:51:48.680 --> 1:51:52.760 gonna try. Yeah, there's something we wanted because the reason 1:51:52.920 --> 1:51:54.840 the reason we have an obligation to talk about this 1:51:54.960 --> 1:51:58.920 is because we invited We invited it. We did from lawyers. 1:51:59.040 --> 1:52:01.479 I'm glad we did. Yeah. I heard from a lot 1:52:01.560 --> 1:52:06.479 of very very kind and knowledgeable people on this and 1:52:06.720 --> 1:52:08.840 really helped my understanding. It's good enough as a bunch 1:52:08.840 --> 1:52:11.720 of lawyers out there. Do you hear from any assholes? No, 1:52:13.200 --> 1:52:18.840 Sam got glowing reviews, good good Joe. Joe mentioned one 1:52:18.960 --> 1:52:21.479 that was that was a little like maybe distasteful. I'm like, 1:52:21.600 --> 1:52:24.479 I don't if it doesn't have anything substantive, I don't 1:52:24.479 --> 1:52:27.280 really need to see it. The lawyers that rode in 1:52:27.840 --> 1:52:29.960 and I read, I read a handful of him last night. 1:52:30.120 --> 1:52:34.920 Lawyers that wrote in, we're saying almost unanimously that Sam 1:52:35.080 --> 1:52:39.760 did a fair job of walking through the Supreme Court 1:52:39.880 --> 1:52:43.200 case Doctor, which people are probably sticking hearing about. I 1:52:43.280 --> 1:52:47.240 got a letter of correction from Ben Long who said 1:52:47.280 --> 1:52:49.000 that he in fact did not tell me not to 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:52.680 talk about it. He said, just talk about it carefully. Um, 1:52:53.040 --> 1:52:55.040 but in this we had a thing. So I'm gonna 1:52:55.040 --> 1:52:56.519 try to bring people up to speed in some kind 1:52:56.520 --> 1:52:58.080 of efficient fashion. So I just want to touch on 1:52:58.160 --> 1:53:00.120 this correction, because this is the most detailed crack can 1:53:00.160 --> 1:53:02.160 we've ever done. If it's in fact, it can be 1:53:02.240 --> 1:53:05.080 counted as a correction. The Supreme Court is hearing a case. 1:53:05.760 --> 1:53:07.640 They already heard the case, they haven't decided on. It 1:53:08.240 --> 1:53:14.639 would be Um. It has to do with if a tribe. 1:53:14.720 --> 1:53:17.080 In this case, we're talking about the Crow tribe. The tribe, 1:53:17.160 --> 1:53:19.320 the Crow tribe has a treaty with the United States 1:53:19.479 --> 1:53:23.519 from the eight hundreds that allows them to hunt on 1:53:24.400 --> 1:53:29.479 their own reservation but also on unoccupied lands outside of 1:53:29.520 --> 1:53:32.479 their reservation. And there's been a lot of ambiguity about 1:53:32.520 --> 1:53:35.880 what unoccupied lands means. Does that mean any national forest, 1:53:36.000 --> 1:53:39.519 national park, BLM land, state land? Like, what does it mean? 1:53:40.160 --> 1:53:43.240 And it's people felt like this had been settled, but 1:53:43.680 --> 1:53:46.960 it's not settled, and that a member of the Crow 1:53:47.080 --> 1:53:50.400 tribe went out and kills some elk off of his reservation, 1:53:50.920 --> 1:53:52.519 he got in trouble with the game ward and his 1:53:52.600 --> 1:53:56.719 hunting companions pled guilty. He's saying, I'm not guilty because 1:53:56.840 --> 1:53:59.880 my treaty gives me the right to hunt on the 1:54:00.000 --> 1:54:03.640 Bighorn National Forest because it's unoccupied land. And so it 1:54:03.800 --> 1:54:08.120 goes to um it elevated up to where the Supreme 1:54:08.160 --> 1:54:09.720 Court is going to hear this and make some kind 1:54:09.720 --> 1:54:15.160 of decision, possibly to upset current understandings of whether or 1:54:15.200 --> 1:54:18.640 not the National Forest in Wyoming could be regarded as 1:54:18.680 --> 1:54:23.439 on occupied landfair Okay, In this we were talking about um. 1:54:24.160 --> 1:54:27.760 How this individual when he first gets in trouble for 1:54:28.080 --> 1:54:31.439 his poaching violation. He goes in front of a court 1:54:32.280 --> 1:54:36.200 and the court tells him, don't tell me about your 1:54:36.400 --> 1:54:39.640 don't tell me about your treaty rights. You're not allowed 1:54:40.120 --> 1:54:46.000 to argue that you were exercising treaty rights. And I 1:54:46.120 --> 1:54:51.400 was like, how can you prevent someone from making an art? Like, 1:54:51.440 --> 1:54:54.480 how can you prevent someone from like making their argument? 1:54:55.000 --> 1:54:57.920 And a bunch of lawyers, some lawyers rolled into say, like, 1:54:58.040 --> 1:55:00.080 what it is that makes it? That would be a 1:55:00.200 --> 1:55:04.240 situation where you're not allowed to give your to make 1:55:04.320 --> 1:55:06.800 the case you want to make in front of a judge. Yeah, 1:55:06.880 --> 1:55:08.560 And I think and we muddled our way through it, 1:55:08.760 --> 1:55:12.200 and I think we were pretty close. But uh, a 1:55:12.280 --> 1:55:14.040 lot of these these people wrote in with some some 1:55:14.240 --> 1:55:17.200 really helpful corrections just from my own understanding of this. 1:55:17.720 --> 1:55:23.360 And so how that worked was that Herrera's lawyers, prior 1:55:23.440 --> 1:55:26.760 to going to trial the would be the convicted poacher, 1:55:26.960 --> 1:55:32.120 yes or yes, before he stood trial, they they sought 1:55:32.240 --> 1:55:36.080 to have all charges dropped. They said, we have this treaty, 1:55:36.480 --> 1:55:39.000 need to drop all charges. He didn't do anything wrong. 1:55:39.800 --> 1:55:42.920 So that is is something called a motion in leimon 1:55:43.000 --> 1:55:49.840 a um. But and what that means is um, it's 1:55:49.840 --> 1:55:53.600 settling issues before a trial by either asking the court 1:55:53.680 --> 1:55:56.520 to pre approve the admissibility of something they planned to 1:55:56.600 --> 1:56:00.160 present evidence or an argument, or asking the court to 1:56:00.280 --> 1:56:04.320 exclude something that they don't want their opponent to present. 1:56:04.800 --> 1:56:08.680 So prior to the trial, his lawyer said, hey, you can't, 1:56:08.680 --> 1:56:10.320 you can't even try us for this. He's got a 1:56:11.080 --> 1:56:14.880 he's got this treaty to support it. But then the 1:56:15.160 --> 1:56:21.360 prosecution says, no, that has already been settled. It's already 1:56:21.400 --> 1:56:24.080 been decided in the Repsist decision that we mentioned from 1:56:24.080 --> 1:56:27.160 the late nineties, it's already been decided that the Crow 1:56:27.480 --> 1:56:30.440 Indians do not have a right to hunt on the 1:56:30.520 --> 1:56:34.080 Bighorn National Forest. Specifically, the Tent Circuit ruled on that 1:56:34.680 --> 1:56:38.000 that issue is settled. You cannot relitigate an issue that 1:56:38.160 --> 1:56:41.800 is settled, got you, and so so saying don't bring 1:56:41.960 --> 1:56:45.160 that all up again. Yeah, Rhodor decided that if you've 1:56:45.160 --> 1:56:46.560 got something else to say, go ahead and say it, 1:56:46.600 --> 1:56:48.960 but don't lay that on me. Yeah. So in court then, 1:56:49.360 --> 1:56:52.080 because he pled not guilty, he had to make a 1:56:52.160 --> 1:56:55.040 different argument, which he decided. They decided to go with 1:56:55.800 --> 1:56:58.280 I didn't know where he was, didn't realize that he'd 1:56:58.280 --> 1:57:01.640 crossed into Wyoming. And they're like, well, you're a game 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:03.680 word and at the time you should have known you're guilty. 1:57:04.320 --> 1:57:07.600 But then after that they appealed and to you know, 1:57:07.720 --> 1:57:13.440 the Wyoming Appellate Court. They um upheld the prior decision. 1:57:14.160 --> 1:57:17.440 They appealed to the Wyoming Supreme Court, they declined it, 1:57:17.680 --> 1:57:20.760 and then they appealed to the United States Supreme Court. 1:57:21.440 --> 1:57:23.720 And you know, it's it's a little amazing because I've 1:57:23.760 --> 1:57:25.760 been reading a lot about this and the United Supate 1:57:25.880 --> 1:57:28.600 State Supreme Court has something like seven or eight thousand 1:57:28.840 --> 1:57:31.360 cases appealed to it every year, and they select like eight, 1:57:32.280 --> 1:57:34.800 and so it's it's a little it's a little interesting 1:57:35.120 --> 1:57:38.560 that they were able to get there. But one of 1:57:38.600 --> 1:57:41.440 the one of the things the Supreme Court is looking at, 1:57:41.480 --> 1:57:44.840 how many cases of about eight it's crazy in the 1:57:44.880 --> 1:57:47.640 same year because they're also here in the case about 1:57:47.680 --> 1:57:51.040 the guy who has the pistol permit in New York. 1:57:51.120 --> 1:57:55.880 He's got a pistol permit for his home that prohibits 1:57:55.960 --> 1:57:59.480 him from taking his pistol out of his home, and 1:57:59.560 --> 1:58:02.360 he's saying, why do my second amendment rights end at 1:58:02.400 --> 1:58:05.280 my doorstep. And they're hearing that case too. This is 1:58:05.520 --> 1:58:09.440 big year for hunters for in the Supreme Court. So 1:58:09.760 --> 1:58:12.320 so that so the Supreme Court is interested in this 1:58:12.600 --> 1:58:16.080 very thing, and so you know kind of um, they're 1:58:16.160 --> 1:58:21.920 interested in issue preclusion um where where it's it's a 1:58:22.320 --> 1:58:27.320 it's you know, it's this judicial doctrine that they're they're 1:58:27.360 --> 1:58:30.280 not really sure if if that was the right decision 1:58:30.760 --> 1:58:35.640 to not allow him to relitigate a settled issue. And 1:58:35.880 --> 1:58:37.840 and as we know the problem with this is that 1:58:37.960 --> 1:58:42.400 there's another Supreme Court the mill Locks versus Minnesota decision 1:58:43.040 --> 1:58:47.120 that kind of shook the underpinnings of the repsist decision. 1:58:47.200 --> 1:58:51.320 It didn't overturn it, but it it uh, it undermined it. 1:58:52.280 --> 1:58:55.840 So they're they're looking they're looking at this, this this 1:58:56.000 --> 1:59:02.440 idea of whether you can relitigate something if if you will. 1:59:02.520 --> 1:59:06.040 There's been holes poked into it. Like like an example 1:59:06.120 --> 1:59:07.600 I was laying out as let's say you lived in 1:59:07.720 --> 1:59:11.880 some situation where they said no one like we've decided 1:59:11.920 --> 1:59:15.400 that it is never justifiable to kill someone in self defense. 1:59:15.720 --> 1:59:17.560 So then you kill someone in self defense and you 1:59:17.640 --> 1:59:20.720 go up a murder trial, and you're like, but dude, 1:59:20.720 --> 1:59:23.080 we need to revisit the idea of whether it's okay 1:59:23.120 --> 1:59:25.640 to kill someone's self defense. Like, I'm not done talking 1:59:25.680 --> 1:59:28.280 about that. And this is kind of a little bit 1:59:28.320 --> 1:59:33.080 of what's it is it is? And um, so if 1:59:33.160 --> 1:59:36.120 we covered that, there was one more email that I 1:59:36.160 --> 1:59:39.240 found was very interesting and provides a, you know, a 1:59:39.320 --> 1:59:42.160 good perspective on on this case and perhaps where it 1:59:42.160 --> 1:59:44.880 will go. Another thing I learned is that this this 1:59:45.040 --> 1:59:48.240 decision is likely to be issued in June. We were 1:59:48.280 --> 1:59:50.240 going like, oh, well, I heard it was this summer, 1:59:50.360 --> 1:59:52.360 Maybe it be later, but it's the Supreme Court is 1:59:52.360 --> 1:59:54.839 going to go in on recess after that, so they 1:59:55.120 --> 1:59:58.760 usually issue a lot of their their rulings prior to 1:59:58.880 --> 2:00:01.600 going on recess. Thought from it, Yeah, I'm kind of 2:00:01.640 --> 2:00:05.280 obsessed with the Horari Wyoming case. This is the one 2:00:05.320 --> 2:00:09.120 you're talking about right here. UM somewhat, So I was. 2:00:09.240 --> 2:00:11.080 I was thinking about this because treaty lack came up. 2:00:11.120 --> 2:00:13.880 So in UM I sent the Judiciary Committee and we 2:00:14.160 --> 2:00:17.120 had the hearing for the CSK T water compact. Um 2:00:17.320 --> 2:00:22.000 my second um two sessions ago, I guess, and it's 2:00:22.080 --> 2:00:25.680 huge and what they argued was that the tribe has 2:00:26.760 --> 2:00:30.760 that's confederated right. So the confederation Cutiny tribe, which is 2:00:31.040 --> 2:00:34.000 the Flathead basically area. So they had a ruling where 2:00:34.040 --> 2:00:36.400 they they redid the water compact. So they were going 2:00:36.440 --> 2:00:38.480 through and the water is a huge issue in Montone Age, 2:00:38.480 --> 2:00:41.080 you guys, I'm sure are aware. And what they said 2:00:41.160 --> 2:00:45.400 is that the tribe had primary water rights or we're 2:00:45.440 --> 2:00:49.400 trying to establish primary water rights even back to you know, 2:00:49.480 --> 2:00:51.040 some of these claims are in the eighteen hundreds that 2:00:51.080 --> 2:00:52.920 people filed for their water rights, and they're saying, well, 2:00:52.960 --> 2:00:55.560 the treaty was like eighteen I don't remember the year 2:00:55.600 --> 2:00:57.240 off top of my head, but it's it was prior. 2:00:57.320 --> 2:00:59.600 The treaty was signed prior to these water rights, so 2:00:59.600 --> 2:01:02.640 they're saying these should be a higher priority. And the 2:01:02.720 --> 2:01:04.560 language that they used in the treaty to make this 2:01:04.720 --> 2:01:10.240 claim was that the treaty granted the tribal members the 2:01:10.320 --> 2:01:13.360 right to hunt and fish in common with the population. 2:01:13.960 --> 2:01:16.200 So what they're saying is, well, you have the right 2:01:16.240 --> 2:01:18.520 to go fishing on any land that anybody else can 2:01:18.520 --> 2:01:20.640 go fishing on. And it, you know, it gets into 2:01:20.640 --> 2:01:22.960 the nuances of what does that mean exactly? But the 2:01:23.160 --> 2:01:25.920 argument that they made was, if you have the right 2:01:25.960 --> 2:01:27.960 to hunt and fish on a stream over in like 2:01:28.040 --> 2:01:30.200 and we're talking like a big timber area. So this 2:01:30.320 --> 2:01:32.920 is how far out the water rights went. They said, 2:01:32.960 --> 2:01:34.760 if you have a right to hunt and fish, then 2:01:34.840 --> 2:01:37.280 you have a right to to mandate that there's an 2:01:37.320 --> 2:01:40.640 appropriate amount of water to protect the fisheries in those areas. 2:01:41.240 --> 2:01:44.560 So that irrigators who might have a priority date that's 2:01:44.840 --> 2:01:46.600 you know, in the eight hundreds for their water rights, 2:01:47.000 --> 2:01:50.520 then can be argued that well, that the treaty prohibits 2:01:50.720 --> 2:01:54.960 them from using water that could then affect the industream flows, 2:01:55.600 --> 2:01:57.960 you know, two miles away, because they have the right 2:01:58.000 --> 2:02:01.040 to fish there, and if you lower the water to 2:02:01.080 --> 2:02:05.160 where it's no longer um beneficial to the fisheries, than 2:02:05.280 --> 2:02:09.320 you're obsurfing that. And so that was the argument that 2:02:09.360 --> 2:02:11.720 they made, and the treaty went through, and it was 2:02:11.800 --> 2:02:14.320 compounded with the fact that the Montana Constitution says the 2:02:14.400 --> 2:02:16.800 waters of Montana are owned by the people of Montana, 2:02:17.520 --> 2:02:19.400 and so the treaty the way that it's written is 2:02:19.640 --> 2:02:23.840 since the treaty or the Water Compact is actually states 2:02:23.880 --> 2:02:26.440 that the water is held in trust by the federal government, 2:02:26.480 --> 2:02:30.640 so it's not actually owned directly by the tribes. It's 2:02:30.680 --> 2:02:33.000 owned through the federal government. So then it's like, wait 2:02:33.040 --> 2:02:34.920 a second, our constitution says that we have that we 2:02:35.040 --> 2:02:37.680 own our water. How can the federal government then own 2:02:37.720 --> 2:02:40.480 our water? So it was a huge issue, and you know, 2:02:40.520 --> 2:02:42.000 there's a lot of nuances, but it's kind of the 2:02:42.040 --> 2:02:44.480 same argument. It's like, well, what is the tribal what 2:02:44.640 --> 2:02:46.440 is the treaty actually grant you? Does it grant you 2:02:46.520 --> 2:02:48.840 the right to have this? And so that's a that's 2:02:48.840 --> 2:02:51.920 a great lead in. It's a huge, huge, Yeah, it's 2:02:51.920 --> 2:02:54.240 a huge issue and people are vehement on both sides 2:02:54.240 --> 2:02:56.120 of it. So yeah, and so this other one I 2:02:56.160 --> 2:02:58.920 wanted to talk about is exactly that. It's like what 2:02:59.040 --> 2:03:02.640 did the treaty and and and this guy uh he 2:03:03.280 --> 2:03:05.720 he says, there's a recent recent law graduate and just 2:03:05.760 --> 2:03:08.480 took the bar last week, but he did study Indian 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:10.440 law and wanted to explain something that they felt like 2:03:10.520 --> 2:03:13.120 we missed. And so he explains that the idea of 2:03:13.240 --> 2:03:18.920 canons of construction, they're basically rules that like underpin laws 2:03:19.080 --> 2:03:24.480 and understanding of of laws such that you know later 2:03:24.600 --> 2:03:26.560 when they're brought up again. You can understand, you know, 2:03:26.720 --> 2:03:31.720 understand where where they're coming from. And so the the 2:03:32.360 --> 2:03:36.800 the cannonate of construction for federal Indian law comes from 2:03:38.280 --> 2:03:42.000 Supreme Court in eighteen thirty Supreme Court decision eighteen thirty two. 2:03:42.160 --> 2:03:45.000 So this is even prior to that that treaty being signed. 2:03:45.720 --> 2:03:50.080 But there's something there's a quote, a concurring opinion from 2:03:50.400 --> 2:03:55.200 Justice McLean that says, the language used in treaties with 2:03:55.280 --> 2:03:58.600 the Indians should never be construed to their prejudice. How 2:03:58.680 --> 2:04:01.680 the words of the treaty were understood by this unlettered people, 2:04:02.240 --> 2:04:06.080 rather than their critical meaning, should form the rule of construction. 2:04:06.960 --> 2:04:10.720 So they like the understanding. So it's it's it's what 2:04:11.000 --> 2:04:15.640 they thought it meant at the time. What the natives 2:04:15.680 --> 2:04:18.840 thought it meant at the time is what matters, not 2:04:19.120 --> 2:04:23.360 what our modern understanding of that word or phrase means. 2:04:24.080 --> 2:04:26.680 So this gets at the So we were just talking 2:04:26.720 --> 2:04:30.040 about one issue in the Supreme Court of issue preclusion, 2:04:30.880 --> 2:04:33.480 and this is the other issue that they're discussing as 2:04:33.600 --> 2:04:37.400 unoccupied lands. And so this guy is suggesting this is 2:04:37.480 --> 2:04:40.760 interesting too because we had brought up the context of 2:04:40.800 --> 2:04:44.959 the time previously as far as where there are animals, 2:04:46.000 --> 2:04:48.320 and at that time, there were no animals on those lands, 2:04:48.400 --> 2:04:53.480 So in that context what was understood at the time. 2:04:53.520 --> 2:04:55.400 And we like, well, that's not part of it because 2:04:55.440 --> 2:04:59.040 there's there's no al interesting that they would have thrown 2:04:59.120 --> 2:05:01.800 that in. But this of like you can hunt unoccupied 2:05:01.920 --> 2:05:04.760 lands as long as there's any game there, because it's like, 2:05:05.000 --> 2:05:08.600 why even add that in? Yeah, and and Wyoming argues 2:05:09.200 --> 2:05:13.520 explicitly that it was under they they think it was 2:05:13.600 --> 2:05:17.120 understood in these treaty arrangements that the game was going away, 2:05:17.520 --> 2:05:20.200 that it would soon be extirpated, and in fact it was. 2:05:21.040 --> 2:05:23.520 And and so they they saw that all these things 2:05:23.640 --> 2:05:27.480 as temporary arrangements, that that the the this was this 2:05:27.640 --> 2:05:30.800 is a transitional phase as the natives, as the crow, 2:05:31.400 --> 2:05:35.960 transitioned to an agrarian society. So Wyoming is like, well, yeah, 2:05:36.040 --> 2:05:38.320 we saw they Yeah, this treaty was signed, but you 2:05:38.360 --> 2:05:41.560 can hunt until they're gone. Yeah, every everybody, everybody assumed 2:05:41.760 --> 2:05:45.640 that the land surrounding would become occupied quickly as states 2:05:45.680 --> 2:05:49.320 were established and settlers moved in, and you can hunt 2:05:49.360 --> 2:05:52.280 all this area as long as they're still game because 2:05:52.320 --> 2:05:56.240 it's going away fast. And in fact Elk were extirpated 2:05:56.320 --> 2:05:59.520 from the Big Horn Mountains shortly after the signature of 2:05:59.600 --> 2:06:05.919 that tree, and were brought back through very rigorous restocking efforts. 2:06:06.360 --> 2:06:08.840 I think another thing that the warrants pointing out is 2:06:10.200 --> 2:06:14.000 tribal members are obviously allowed to hunt um the same 2:06:14.040 --> 2:06:17.680 as any other resident nonresidents set law, So this is all. 2:06:17.800 --> 2:06:19.600 It's not like they can't hunt. It would be that 2:06:19.640 --> 2:06:21.880 they can hunt under the same guidelines that any other 2:06:22.200 --> 2:06:24.840 state resident or nonresident would come in and hunt. But 2:06:24.960 --> 2:06:27.000 this has to do with like an overlay, which is 2:06:27.080 --> 2:06:31.000 just specific tribal hunting rights specific the tribal members, yes, 2:06:31.160 --> 2:06:36.320 and and and the specific like tribal treaty hunting. It 2:06:36.680 --> 2:06:40.160 it's it's an important distinction for people to understand, because yes, 2:06:40.320 --> 2:06:43.240 natives can apply and draw these tags in the Big 2:06:43.280 --> 2:06:46.360 Horn Mountains in the in this area, but the tribal 2:06:46.480 --> 2:06:51.520 treaty hunting, which which occurs in many states, often exists 2:06:51.560 --> 2:06:57.839 on a different plane than state managed you know, normal hunting. 2:06:58.200 --> 2:07:04.200 It's it's it's often often in seasons are often not existent, 2:07:04.720 --> 2:07:07.720 bag limits are different. It's it's more like it's more 2:07:07.800 --> 2:07:12.440 like Alaska subsistence hunting than it than it fits within 2:07:12.600 --> 2:07:16.720 our you know, neat little program of of state managed wildlife. 2:07:17.520 --> 2:07:20.200 So are you good on clearing points? I think so 2:07:20.800 --> 2:07:22.640 we're gonna put it the rest. Let's put the rest. 2:07:22.680 --> 2:07:24.120 And in June you're gonna come on and tell us 2:07:24.120 --> 2:07:28.400 what happened, if it's a big deal or not. Yeah, yeah, 2:07:28.520 --> 2:07:31.040 I mean and and my my views continue to evolved. 2:07:31.080 --> 2:07:32.640 I said, I think I put it as a three 2:07:32.760 --> 2:07:36.080 or four last time, that it's going to change the 2:07:36.120 --> 2:07:38.560 world as we know it. Yeah, And and I think 2:07:38.800 --> 2:07:42.360 I might be more of a solid for even a 2:07:42.440 --> 2:07:45.880 five or six after some of these conversations I've had 2:07:46.080 --> 2:07:47.960 in the last couple of weeks. This could have major 2:07:48.080 --> 2:07:54.800 ramifications for game management. I I wouldn't say major, but 2:07:55.120 --> 2:08:01.560 I would say it could significant ramifications. All right, man, interesting, 2:08:01.960 --> 2:08:04.400 thank you? Anything to add? Joannie? I don't got the 2:08:04.480 --> 2:08:07.160 turkey calls in your pocket. Yeah, I'm I'm getting ready. 2:08:07.400 --> 2:08:10.800 We're lessing a month away. Ben and I are counting down. 2:08:10.920 --> 2:08:14.840 We're counting down April second. Now where we're going on 2:08:14.960 --> 2:08:21.320 the Rio grand, the Rio grand A, the Rio grand Turky. Okay, Seth, 2:08:21.400 --> 2:08:24.360 thanks for coming down, Manure. We're gonna have We're gonna 2:08:24.640 --> 2:08:27.560 probably have to call on you again for corrections and whatnot. 2:08:28.040 --> 2:08:30.400 I'll be around all right and thanks every How about 2:08:30.440 --> 2:08:32.400 some closing thoughts? Oh you want to hit the closer? 2:08:32.800 --> 2:08:37.080 I don't necessarily have one, but he presents the opportunity 2:08:38.080 --> 2:08:40.200 opportunities to closers. I know, but I want one for 2:08:40.280 --> 2:08:44.080 this video. Uh, Benny got a new concluders. That's a 2:08:44.120 --> 2:08:45.800 lot of pressure. You canna film me or film Steve 2:08:45.800 --> 2:08:50.000 while I conclude sure there's an important one on the 2:08:50.080 --> 2:08:53.120 Rio Grande because I forgot about that that overlaps with 2:08:53.200 --> 2:08:57.880 our Austin, Texas live podcast dates. Oh yeah, that's a 2:08:57.880 --> 2:09:00.200 good one. Doesn't overlap we go from there to to 2:09:00.280 --> 2:09:02.720 Austin for the live show. Well it's one plane ticket, 2:09:02.760 --> 2:09:05.560 I guess. Yeah. What's the point. That's your concluder. I 2:09:05.640 --> 2:09:09.680 think that's just something to mention we're doing a big, fancy, 2:09:09.760 --> 2:09:13.520 super fun live podcast in Austin, Texas. Tickets for sale yet, Yep, 2:09:14.320 --> 2:09:18.000 they are, They are for sale. My concluider is as 2:09:18.080 --> 2:09:21.200 we were talking about shooting, I was thinking about all 2:09:21.280 --> 2:09:23.640 the movies I watched as a kid and all the 2:09:23.720 --> 2:09:27.560 bullshit shots that were made that were clearly not you know, 2:09:27.640 --> 2:09:30.200 I was thinking of Legends of the Falling some dove. 2:09:30.320 --> 2:09:33.080 I was thinking of Tombstone, Tombstone. I was thinking of 2:09:33.120 --> 2:09:37.120 all these movies quickly, all these like seminal movies at 2:09:37.160 --> 2:09:39.360 shape TOI I think about the West, where all there 2:09:39.480 --> 2:09:42.520 was at least a or a number of bullshit shots 2:09:42.560 --> 2:09:44.120 in each one of those. What I always hated was 2:09:44.200 --> 2:09:47.840 that somebody has a revolver and they shoot like eighteen times. 2:09:47.960 --> 2:09:50.040 There's a mel Gives a movie, The Patriot, where the 2:09:50.840 --> 2:09:54.000 red coat the officer, he has a muzzle loaded flint 2:09:54.040 --> 2:09:55.920 lock pistol and the dude is riding a horse like 2:09:55.920 --> 2:09:58.000 two yards down this creek and he just pulls up 2:09:58.040 --> 2:10:00.280 and boom, and the dude falls off his horse. And like, yeah, 2:10:00.560 --> 2:10:04.680 you ever watched all the buster scrugs or Yeah, that's 2:10:04.720 --> 2:10:07.280 almost a parody of good shooting. But that's a parody 2:10:07.400 --> 2:10:09.680 of like what's been done in the world in the 2:10:09.760 --> 2:10:13.400 realm of like Western shooting. Yeah, it's like a satire. 2:10:13.680 --> 2:10:15.880 But that's my conclude. Oh I got a concluder. Um, 2:10:16.880 --> 2:10:19.120 We've talked over the years a lot of a lot 2:10:19.160 --> 2:10:21.920 about a documentary that I did with zero point zero production, 2:10:22.120 --> 2:10:26.120 and um, you can watch it now. Go to stars 2:10:26.160 --> 2:10:29.920 in the sky film dot com. Make sure I get 2:10:29.960 --> 2:10:35.600 that right, stars in the sky film dot com. And 2:10:35.680 --> 2:10:40.880 then it's available for uh streaming and download on video. 2:10:41.760 --> 2:10:45.560 You can rent it, you can buy it, so check 2:10:45.600 --> 2:10:49.280 it out. Full length feature film available now. How was 2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:51.600 that for concluding, Yanni? Good job you wanta turn that 2:10:51.680 --> 2:10:55.200 came around and hit your own concluder stas, Thanks for coming, 2:10:55.240 --> 2:11:01.000 We appreciate my pleasure. Has got another way. He's raising 2:11:01.040 --> 2:11:03.680 his hand. No, he doesn't know, he's just raising his phone. 2:11:03.720 --> 2:11:04.320 Thanks everyone,