1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcasting in you shirtless, severely 2 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: vote bitten and in my case underwear listening past. You 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: can't predict anything. Um, I got a bone to pick 4 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: first off, because, uh, do you guys remember when we 5 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: were talking about the guy that, um, the guy that 6 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: had the blue fin tuna? Yeah? Right, and he uh 7 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: refreshed my memory this that caught it legally into the 8 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: woods doing something. I'm doing some horrible hosting. So we 9 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: got a couple of corrections about the blue fin tuna 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: that are interrupted. One clarification of one correction where you 11 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: guys misled me and miss and really misled listeners by 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: not knowing uh not knowing something. The story is how 13 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: the the the catch season on bluefin tuna had been 14 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: closed on the East Coast and a guy caught a 15 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: five hundred, four hundred there's different weights going around a 16 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: four hundred pound bluefin tuna. He thought, maybe I can 17 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: hide this giant fish and no one will know I 18 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: actually voted it because he could legally release it, right 19 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: like you could target it for clients, but you just 20 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: can't keep him. But he decided to keep thinking is 21 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: of real valuable. He thinks he's gonna go and take 22 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: it and sell it in a backdoor restaurant exchange, which 23 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: I guess happens quite a bit. Um he doesn't do it. 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: One of the restaurant's reports him for trying to sell 25 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: this tuna. He panics, ties it to his truck and 26 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: drags it out into the woods and then gets all 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: these crazy fines and then talking about this, we're talking 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: about what is the value of a bluefin tuna? And 29 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: you boys, I can't remember which he was most guilty. 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: You two are involved in it, and Miles Nolty, who's 31 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: not here right now, was involved in it. And we're 32 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: talking about how some tuna are worth millions of dollars. Correct, 33 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: we looked it up on the internet. Yeah, but yeah, 34 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: the internet. Okay, no, oh, but a guy is gonna 35 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: now correct us. Okay, you check this out. Then check 36 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: this out where he's saying. He says, in reference to 37 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: the story of the poached and discarded bluefin tuna, you 38 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: misstated the value of blue fin tuna and the Japanese 39 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: fish auctions as one or three million dollars. And you 40 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: even mentioned it was the first of the year, right, Okay, 41 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: there's a there's a sort of ceremonial thing with the 42 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: first tuna. They take a nice tuna and sell the 43 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: first tuna of the year at auction, and it's like 44 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: a dick swinging contest where whoever is kind of sitting 45 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: on the fattest wall and it has the best business 46 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: going will do a symbolic purchase of the first tuna 47 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: as a sort of media driver. But the same fish, 48 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: if it was the second tuna, would be eighty grand. 49 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: It's the thing you do to be like. It's it's 50 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: like the opening of the sale. It's like the Texas 51 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: State Fair with the grand champion steer, and all the 52 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: oil companies tell me more. I don't know this, but 53 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: I like, I like, you have all your rural your 54 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: rural areas they have, you know, your four eight or 55 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: your state fairs, and so all these kids usually show 56 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: these animals and then when you get to the end, 57 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: they have the grand champion. You know, this is the 58 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: premium steer. Well, you go to a state like Texas well, 59 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: obviously there's a lot of oil money, and it happened 60 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: a lot over like North Dakota. Some of those guys 61 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: are paying you know, thousands of dollars, which those kids 62 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: is a ton of money. But I think it's the 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: same thing these steers go for, you know, one to 64 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: three thousand dollars for a beef, because it's the same thing. 65 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: It's like it's the grand champion. You know, you gotta 66 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: have it. So yeah, that does not so you gotta 67 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: get Yeah, I feel like getting that, man. I feel 68 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: I feel like we're like in special contact. They will 69 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: be sold for a great deal of money. But no, 70 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: here's the problem. Here's what you guys did. It was bad. 71 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: You were saying that the tuna is a tuna can 72 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: be worth that amount of money. So the guy didn't 73 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: pay a million dollars for it. But yes, but it 74 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: wasn't the value of the tuna. It was like a 75 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: it's a symbolic, ceremonial thing, has nothing to do with 76 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: the value of the tuna. Yeah. No, you're completely right, 77 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: and thank you wrong for misrepresenting the like the average 78 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: value of a tuna. If one a year gets sold 79 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: that way in the Dick swing contest, then it's not 80 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: the value of the tuna. Yeah, if you're charging I 81 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: guess the whole saler that these dudes on the outer 82 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: banks there that are selling the tuna to They're not 83 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: going to get that that money. He's got nothing to 84 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: do with market. That's the interesting thing is doing some 85 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: trickle down economics to make sure the dude that caught 86 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: the fish winds up getting five grand or something. Yeah, 87 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: let let's do introductions real quick. I wonder what a 88 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: backdoor deal at a restaurant don't get you though? This 89 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: guy that wrote this guy, Yeah, exactly, it'll gets you 90 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: a ten dollar fine. This guy that wrote in, one 91 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: of the guys that wrote in about this was very 92 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: close to this and knew the players involved and kind 93 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: of explained a little bit of backstory this tune. And 94 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: it seems as though there was some other boats around, 95 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: and somehow this guy thought it's possible to to do 96 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: this without to deal with the fish of this size, 97 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: without attracting attention, And it seems like he blundered in 98 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: a number of areas and people were aware of, like, hey, 99 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: that guy just drove by with a pound tuna hanging 100 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: off the end of his boat. Um, sethics Uh introduce yourself, Uh, 101 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: Seth Burgley. I don't know how much you might want 102 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: to say, but no, there's no what you're named Burgh's 103 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: no Burgley Burg No s Yeah, a lot of people 104 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: call me Burgs, but a lot of nicknames now wes 105 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: Um grew up northeastern Montana, farmed ranched up there, so 106 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: that's kind of my background of agger culture. Stared hunting 107 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: when I was about three years old, be begun and 108 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: sparrows weren't safe, and been doing it ever since. Um 109 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: what's northeast Montana, north of Brockton, so kind of between 110 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: plenty Wood and Wolf Point, kind of up in no 111 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: man's land. Dated a gale from plenty Wood one time. 112 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: Go ahead, wasn't your sister? You've got a sister, Well 113 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: I do, but she wasn't in plenty of Wood anyway. 114 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: Uh yeah. So we moved down to Billings when I 115 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: was in high school. My dad had some health issues 116 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: and uh culture to healthcare stuff. And started college there 117 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: and then got a scholarship to go to Ohio State 118 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: now on a shooting scholarship, so shot competitively there and 119 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: then the Army picked me up after that to go 120 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: shoot for them and spent a few years doing that 121 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: and moved back to Montana. I got involved in politics 122 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: a little bit on the state level, and state representative, 123 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: state representative representing the people of representing the good people 124 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: of Carbon County. So it's the area that basically from 125 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: just south of Laurel all the way to Red Lodge, 126 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: you know, Luther Roscoe area, and then south of the border. 127 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: How many constituents do you have? About ten thou So 128 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: it's funny. I was, I was just in d C. 129 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: And I was talking to a state representati from Virginia 130 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: and talking about you know, campaigns and constituents and that 131 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: sort of thing, and so I asked, I was like, 132 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: what's a what's a campaign like for a state representative 133 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: in Virginia. He's like, oh, you know, like three or 134 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand dollars And it's like, well, an expensive 135 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: one here is about forty So it's a little bit different. 136 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: That's still a four bucks. That's still four bucks for 137 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: every content that's an expensive one. Yeah, the average is 138 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: probably about six ten, maybe six or ten. It was 139 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: about a buck for in an election You're you're looking 140 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: at like five d to thousand votes is swinging the Yeah, 141 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: a thousand votes is a big, big difference. I think 142 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: we have a high voter turnout in Yeah, it was 143 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: like sixty seven percent or something like that, and yeah, 144 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: it's about I want to say what we have. Uh yeah, well, 145 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: getting registered vote is there was probably a hired turnout 146 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: than that. There's about sixty votes I think so, yeah, 147 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: but it can be swung. A lot of the districts 148 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: are handful of votes, votes, forty votes some of them. 149 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: Usually there's one or two in the state that come 150 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: down to five or eight votes and they do a 151 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: recount and oh he won by three. So and you're 152 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: saying that most like most state legislators are they have 153 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: another gig, like, oh, yeah, you can't make a living 154 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: at this. I mean they say we make eleven thirty 155 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: three an hour or whatever the state wage. But that's 156 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: eight hour days. So you know, when we're in session, 157 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I guess there's some days 158 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: we get out earlier. You have a half day that 159 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: you work, but generally, if you're involved, you've been around, 160 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: you're there at six six thirty every morning and you 161 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: often won't leave tilt eight nine o'clock. So if you 162 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: work six to six, that's kind of an average day, 163 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: so you're not really making that much money. Everybody has 164 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: a job. I was just gonna say, how many terms 165 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: have you done? This is my third term, so yep. 166 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: And then you're only getting paid when you're in session. 167 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: That's kind of a people think you're on like a 168 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: salary d it's you get paid every day that you're 169 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: working and then we get a per diem. But you're 170 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: moving up there and paying rent and buying food and stuff. 171 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: So it's not really a money making gig. Do it 172 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: for the for your ideological reasons or to try and 173 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: help people out, so as a launchpad, right, some people 174 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: might I don't see that as my projection. I guess, 175 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: like life, it's good when you're really There's when you 176 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: look at the makeup of the legislature. You get a 177 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: lot of retired people because they have time to do it. 178 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: You get some younger people that kind of are have 179 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: time on their hands, or you know, independent business owners, 180 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: guys that can do their own thing take some time off. 181 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: And you get lawyers because they can just shut the 182 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: practice down like all right, I'm not taking any I'm 183 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: not doing any work for four months and then they'll 184 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: come back. But it's kind of tough for you know, 185 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: if you're in the egg world, you know, there's a 186 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: lot of guys from you know, out in the Sticks 187 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: that are ranchers, are farmers, and farmers have a little 188 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: easier because they usually can't get in the field, especially 189 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: this year. They won't be until after we're out. But 190 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: a lot of guys are starting to ca right now, 191 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: so their wives are at home, you know, having things out. 192 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: The neighbors are helping them out. So it's a tough 193 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: gig if you're kind of a working man, how much 194 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: of your job is balancing out all of Carbon County 195 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: versus Red Lodge. Like you got a lot of people 196 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: bitching about, like out of staters in Red Lodge and 197 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: second homes and yeah, it's it's more of the ideologies. 198 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: I think it's not. There's some really good people on 199 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: both sides. I mean, you get people that have lived 200 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: here for five generations can be you know, just as 201 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: one side or the other. Yeah, people in Red Lodge 202 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: can be if it's like, oh there, they got to 203 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: be from California and be super liberal, and it's like, why, 204 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: I know, guys from California, they're like more conservative than 205 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: anybody else in the county. So it's it's not so 206 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: much like where you're from or where you live. It's 207 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: more about just kind of how you think about things, 208 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: and people tend to group together. So it is, you know, 209 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: the county is a lot more agricultural, rural people have 210 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: been around for a while, a lot more farm you know, 211 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: kind of production and of based, and Red Lodge is 212 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: a lot more of retirement. And then you've got the 213 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: ski hill, so you kind of get that aspect to, 214 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: you know, get more more people that just kind of 215 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: in and out, it feels like, to ski and hang out, 216 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: so you kind of get some of that too. So 217 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: it's definitely it's definitely. It totally is you know. That's 218 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: like I tell people, it's like, this is exactly like 219 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: if you took Montana and squished into one county. It's 220 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: like that's Carbon County because you've got kind of like this, 221 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, everybody jokes like it's the hippie town. You know, 222 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: all the people that live out there, and it's like, 223 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: you know, you know, the mountain town a little more 224 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: palatable for some people. I don't know, and but it's 225 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: like it's kind of like Missoula. You know, you've got 226 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: that kind of that type of group, that dynamic and 227 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: then you've got the two river valleys in Carbon County. 228 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: We have the Clark's Fork and Rock Creek, which is 229 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: kind of like the Missouri, and you know, the Yellowstone, 230 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: and then Southeastern County is all just sage brush nothing. 231 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: It's like if you go to broad Us, it's like 232 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: people live out here. It's just nothing. And then there's oil. 233 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: There's oil and southeastern part of the county. And then 234 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: we have a lot of cold to you know, Carbon 235 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: County they named it that because of the coal mine 236 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: there in Bear Creek, so you have some of that industry, 237 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: and so it is. It really is kind of like 238 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: a little microcosma Montana. And then you got the mountains, 239 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, the Western slopes and yeah, everything, a lot 240 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: of turkeys you have to drive to. You guys, got 241 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: many fox squirrels. Any fox squirrels in the district. Fox 242 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: squirrel they're definitely there. I know, no, I'm I'm looking 243 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: at my retirement home out there, and not for the 244 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: skin for the squirrels, damn it. Okay, and then uh so, 245 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: so Seth is with us, and then uh be honest 246 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: of course, Ben O'Brien, OKAYL four or six, Sam Lon Uh, dude, 247 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: rolled in real quick, Dude, rolled in. We're talking. We're 248 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: talking about chasing a little bit chapass, chafing. Ro In 249 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: He chafed when he swims. That doesn't doesn't seem in 250 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: salt water freshwater, saltwater, he says, a lot worse chafes 251 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: when he swims. Yeah, I can see that I can't 252 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: chase in salt water. Freshwater. Yeah, I mean you got 253 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: you got sand mixing around, and you know, just kind 254 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: of that abrasiveness of saltwater. I feel like, you know, 255 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: I've been ashing around snorkeling and cheese stuff and chafing, 256 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: not about the presence of moisture. Yeah, I don't know, man, 257 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: But how do we define like what causes chafe his skin? 258 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: It depends because you're saying it's a big man's problem 259 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of contact. Yes, like my legs 260 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: don't brush. No, you know. So that's why most people 261 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: think of like when chafing, you think of chapass, because 262 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: everyone's like most people are going to have some skin 263 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: on skin contact and their gluteal crease. But uh, I 264 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: was reading the thing the up Michigan's Upper Peninsula where 265 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: I live very briefly. Uh, they're just getting walloped. There's 266 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: a dear biologist in the up saying, if things continue this, 267 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: this winner keeps humming along like it is. He's predicting 268 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: they will lose forty percent of their white tailed deer 269 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 1: this winter. That's wild. I had our local biolog just 270 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: told me the highline lost forty percent in some areas 271 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: last year. Man, you think hunters killed here? Uh? Talked 272 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: about the tuna, big correction. I was talking about the 273 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: great poet Robert Service, and I mentioned like American poetry, 274 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: and boy, that got some Canadians riled up, he said, 275 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: A guy Rhode. He says, as a Canadian in a 276 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: British Columbian, I worry about our culture being overshadowed by 277 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: America and our attempts to maintain a distinct identity from 278 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: our southern neighbors. And he even spelt it that cute 279 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: Canadian way. You just put that you in there for emphasis. 280 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: He was like real worked up about misidentifying Bob Service, 281 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: but that he was born in England, so let's oh, 282 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: so they can't even claim to school in Scotland. He 283 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: moved to Scotland he was five. It was born in England. 284 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: So sorry, sorry, bro, how don't need to hear from 285 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: any Scotsman. Spend so much time in the Yukon too, 286 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: and you know, if you're in the Yukon, you definitely 287 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: differentiate yourself from those folks down in British Columbia. So 288 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: I guess I think him as an American poet because 289 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: I feel like that's where his audiences. Yeah, and it's English. 290 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: He's a British Canadian American poet. And then he and 291 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: we just kind of appropriate anything. Yeah, you just pick, 292 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: like if it's something in Cannon and you like it, 293 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: you just act like it's American and then it is. 294 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: I think he's spent like forty years, like the last 295 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: forty years of his life in Europe, in London, Paris. 296 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: Bob Service, propert service. Yeah, I call Robert Frost Bob Frost, 297 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: and I call Robert Service Bob Services. I think it 298 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: makes more. You know, you know the poems of Bob Frost, right, 299 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: like that that thing about building fences. Oh yeah, yeah, 300 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: he was the he was an American poet. Laureatette Bob Frost. 301 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: He's got that poem where the two dudes are like 302 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: they spend all their time building a fence between their properties, 303 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: like good fences make good neighbors and like an old 304 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: stone Savage and that you realize all they care about 305 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: is like very carefully delineating the line between their properties, 306 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: and that's like what they dedicate their lives too. I 307 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: will admit that I definitely, I definitely disserviced Robert Service, 308 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: uh because my impression of him. Uh. So I bought 309 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: a book of collected works from the air little airport 310 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: shack in King sam And Alaska. They sell Robert Service books. Yeah, 311 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: because they want They're like, oh, I think they wanted 312 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: everybody that likes to like lay claim just like you're 313 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: saying that you're down on you're saying you don't like 314 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: his poetry because it all rhymes. No, no, no, this 315 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: was I just bought his book while I was waiting 316 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: on our plan out to the peninsula to go hunt 317 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: brown bears. And it was just like winter would not 318 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: leave and spent a ton of the trip, you know, 319 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: shoulder to shoulder with three other dudes in a tent. 320 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: That sounds like a Bob Service poem. Oh yeah, And 321 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: so I was super into Robert Service and just but 322 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: I had like reading that book front back twelve different 323 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: times on that trip, I'd kind of come to the 324 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: conclusion that there's no way this guy got stationed in 325 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: the Yukon because he was a cracker jack banker, you know. 326 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: I figured that he was put out there because he 327 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: kind of had like some drug or alcohol problems. And 328 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: then you know, all of his poems talking about like 329 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: the working class. Um, it just kind of got ingrained 330 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: in my brain that this guy probably did what a 331 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: lot of poets and writers do is die bad death 332 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: somewhere destitute, drunk under some bridge exactly. But that's not 333 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: the case at all. Turned out be quite quite a 334 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: straight arrow. Yeah, And I didn't didn't learn that until 335 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: just recently. So it made some money off. He was 336 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: the most wealthy writer in Paris at one time, especially 337 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: died drunk under a bridge. A less interesting this way, 338 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: right if you would. Nowadays are too lazy to rhyme 339 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: all their poems, and that guy had that work ethic 340 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: that needs to go into like rhyming that stuff out 341 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: to the bitter end, just get not only like he 342 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: had a pretty sizable fortune going and then um he 343 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: couldn't when World War one broke out he couldn't join 344 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: up because of his physical condition, so he joined the 345 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: Red Cross and uh yeah, litter bearer and one a 346 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: bunch of medals. He sounds like too good a dude 347 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: to be a poet, Like the poet should be under 348 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: a bridge drum screaming at people. Yeah, juice, were did 349 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: you just use the word litter bear? Yeah? Have we 350 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: talked about um to the movie Tombstone? Oh not for 351 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: a long time, but I know where you're going with that. 352 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: The yeah, huckle bear so real quick, and I gotta 353 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: get onto some of the stuff we're talking about that 354 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about shooting with South. So it's okay. I 355 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: don't know if it's true. I haven't looked into this, 356 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: but I've heard this. Everyone knows that that it's in Tombstone, right. 357 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: The dude Aceman from Top Gun and he plays uh 358 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: Bell kim Kilmer. Bel Kimbers. Also, I'll point out very 359 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: good in heat Michael Man movie. So Bell Kimber says 360 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: to a feller, I think he's fixing to shoot him maybe, 361 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: or someone's fixing to shoot someone. Kilmer says, I'll be 362 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: your He's like, do it shoot me or whatever. Pull 363 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: your gun. I'll be your huckleberry. Okay, you know what 364 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: the hell is that mean? No one knows what that means. 365 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: Someone was telling me, and listeners will write it and 366 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: hopefully clarify this point. Someone's telling me that he messes 367 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: that he messed the line up, or someone the writer's 368 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: messed it up, or something I messed up. The expression 369 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: is he's like, go ahead, you know, pull your gun. 370 00:19:55,359 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: I will be your huckle bearer, which would be a 371 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: term for he's saying, try it. I'll be your pall bearer. Yes, not, 372 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: I'll be your huckleberry. Have you watched it like ten 373 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: times in a row to make sure that he actually 374 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: does say it, like five five times, I'm your huckleberry, 375 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: Johnny Ringo. Someone just I shouldn't have brought it up. 376 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: Bring up. You should never bring up stuff you don't 377 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. He was too hot strung, 378 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: real quick, real quick, um quick question for you. Guy 379 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: writes in he's got I can't really understand it. He's 380 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: got a bow that it maxes out at sixty pounds, 381 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: and he's like, man, I want to go elk Hunton. 382 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Can I am I your responsible to lhunt with my 383 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: sixty pound bow. I guessing compound? Yeah, absolutely not, absolutely 384 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: not not not dude, my long total. Yeah, yeah, just 385 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: understand what your weapon can do. That's all all matter. 386 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: Get close, don't be bombing him at sixty yards. Sixty 387 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: pound compounds like an eighty pound long bow. I mean, 388 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: how many guys hunt with eighty pound longbows? Has a 389 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: heavy air? Was heavy air? You should be shooting heavy 390 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: air with the sixty pound bow, six blade broad head 391 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: and a heavy arrow. Go to town. I'm not a 392 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: humongous man. Um, I'm not a longest man, but I 393 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: pulled quite a bit more than that. That's what I 394 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: was just curious. But I don't know what his circumstances. 395 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: How what are you pulling? I shoot seventy yeah, uh okay. 396 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: Guy rode in from the military and he says, you 397 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: guys are talking about whether you used when you're trying 398 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: to explain to someone where something is. So you're you're 399 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: looking out on the landscape and you're like, are you 400 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: see a deer? And you're trying to explain where the 401 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: deer is? And we were talking about whether you should 402 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: that's described as talking someone into something or talking someone 403 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: onto something. He says military feller. He says, it seems 404 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: like the hegemony. His words settled down the former. Now 405 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: he's a US Air Force Joint Terminal Attack Controller. J 406 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: our job is to call in air to ground fire 407 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: in support of ground forces. They damn sure talk people 408 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: on to something. They do not talk someone into something. Um, 409 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: he has more call in fire though. You don't call 410 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: on fire. So you're calling him onto it. But you 411 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: call in fire. So that's a good point, he says. 412 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: Assuming every one of us has more or less the 413 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: same knowledge base, what really sets a good j tech 414 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: from a great one is our ability to get aircraft 415 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: overhead and talk there sold to straws. You know, are 416 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: you following all this? Talk their soda straw sensor onto 417 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: a target expeditiously and facilitate fire. The term we use 418 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: is talk on, because you are verbally moving the pilot's 419 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: eyes from the known to the unknown. We work big 420 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: too small. Also, whichever direction you are facing is twelve 421 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: o'clock as opposed to changing it. Every time you talk 422 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: on to a known spot, that part I don't understand. 423 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: So you find your fixed point. It's like on a hillside, 424 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: you all right, the big tree everybody got the big tree. Alright, 425 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: the deer's you know, twelve o'clock, So you are the 426 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: known point because he knows where you are, so that 427 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: that's what I was wandering. He knows where the person is. 428 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: So then you're designating off of all right, my twelve o'clock, 429 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: because otherwise it's changing no matter where he is, and 430 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: he always knows where the guy's facing. Now here's the 431 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: hottest laser designator. Here's the hottest j tech tip they're 432 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: not going to adopt from now on. We're talking about 433 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: using as a unit of measures. So let's say you 434 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: have a thing. Let's say that happens to be a 435 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: deer by a school bus, and everybody can agree like 436 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: that's a school bus comment scenario. Yeah, you'd be like, um, 437 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: trying to explain distance. What they do is you pick 438 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: something out on the landscape and make that a unit 439 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: a distance unit. So let's say you can agree on 440 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: a alone cedar tree on a ridge top and the 441 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: deers somewhere off to the right. You take the width 442 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: of that known cedar tree and that becomes your unit 443 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: of measurement. That'd be a shitty one because it'd be 444 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: very small so also you'll be talking about well fifty okay, 445 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: but let's say you're talking sure, but whatever he's just saying, like, 446 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: pick a known thing and make unit distance units often 447 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: known thing. So if let's say it's a let's say 448 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: the deer is pretty close, someone can't see you, Like, okay, 449 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: that's our unit of measurement. Yes, three, go three of 450 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: those over. Rather being like a little bit a teeny ways, 451 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: D're always trying to do just like at what point 452 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: your yards are mine? We're always like like twenty yards. 453 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: But I don't know how the hell many you could 454 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: go with there and wind up it's ten yards of 455 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 1: sixty yards. Make a unit of measurement and march their 456 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: eyes on that unit of measurement. I've done it with 457 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: clouds before. Is that stupid? Yeah? You see that big 458 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: moving cloud just turned into a mustache or go to 459 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 1: the right, go to the right of the mustache. Um 460 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: on the subject, name and guns. A little bit of 461 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: feedback from people, the guys saying that you can't name you. 462 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: One guy says that he has a rifle and he 463 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: gave it a name, and he feels okay with it 464 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: because he has a six five by sixty eight or 465 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: six five by sixty eight, which then he knows a gun. 466 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: I've six five by sixty eight, That's what he says. 467 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: And he even says that he times since it's six 468 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: five x sixty eight, he times it out, it comes 469 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: out to four forty two, so he calls it the 470 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: four forty two. Another guy was saying, you can't the 471 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: same way you can't give yourself a nickname. If you're 472 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: gonna nickname a gun, it can only be given by 473 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: other people who name the gun. The same way you 474 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: can't give yourself a nickname somewhat legitimate. Yeah, his buddy 475 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: has a gun. He keeps too much oil on it, 476 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: and one time he dropped a duck hunting and an 477 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: oil that came off it, and so they call his 478 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: shotgun the Valdies. I guess that guy. That's that guy. 479 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: He's got a dog and who named the dog. This 480 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: is the last, the last note I'm ever gonna give 481 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: about cheese kurds or top so like cheese curds. When 482 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: you buy on they squeak. If you've been to Wisconsin, 483 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: you know about this. It's the only thing I like 484 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: about Wisconsin, except for Doug during that's a joke. But 485 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: cheese curds, like when you buy them, they get squeaky. 486 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,719 Speaker 1: Then you leave them laying around and they lose your 487 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: squeak and doug during it feels as though it's like 488 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: a sin against God and man, he's like, why would 489 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: you ever let your courage sit around so long that 490 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: they lose your their squeaking, Like if you let him 491 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: sit that long, you don't deserve to have squeaky kurds. 492 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: And these boys in Elroy, Wisconsin were telling us that 493 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: you leave him on the dashboard your truck and the sun, 494 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: they'll re squeak. Someone was telling us that if you 495 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: microwave them, they'll get squeaky again. This guy is saying, 496 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: the absolute best way to revive your neglected cheese kurds 497 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: is to place them into a colander and run a 498 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: hot water over them for about a minute. They will 499 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: be not just as good, he says, and he makes 500 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: a parenthetical if not better, then right when they came 501 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: out of the vat. Okay, I'll be trying that because 502 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: Wisconsin Turkey seasons coming up. Um can I can? I 503 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: go ahead? It's not gonna start asking seth questions. I 504 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: got one that might be a good way to lead 505 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: into can you can you pivot off it? Yeah, it 506 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: might be able to. I got to and I'll see 507 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: if we can do this first one quickly. The dude 508 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: wrote in this is interesting because it's kind of it's 509 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: kind of about shooting, but he's got a predicament that 510 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: he's found himself in twice. I want you guys all 511 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: weigh in and see if what you guys are doing 512 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: this situation. He went back country'll hunting in Colorados, buddy, 513 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: And on the third year they went back three times. 514 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: They finally got into a bowl on the last day, 515 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: Um it was and they trade days on who gets 516 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: to be the shooter and who's calling right, So it 517 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: his day to shoot. Bull comes in, He's gonna have 518 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: a perfect shot. Back up, What about the three years 519 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: they've been Yeah, they've been hunting three years. I haven't 520 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: got a shot yet, I haven't killed nothing. Now on 521 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: the third year, last day, it's his it's his day 522 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: to shoot, and Bull steps out and right as he's 523 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: getting ready to shoot, he hears another bow go off. 524 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: He sees the arrows smoked this bull, and he ends 525 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: up still punching his trigger. Because it's just like he's like, whoa, 526 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: what the and and and shoots an arrow to his 527 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: arrow hits in the paunch. Bull goes like thirty yards, 528 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: tips over and dies, ends up being a nice six um. 529 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: And he's like, dude, thought it was my day to shoot, right, 530 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: And he's like, oh really I thought it was mine, 531 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: Like sorry, and so hold on a second, hold on 532 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: a second. This fight, the two guys are hunting together. Yea, 533 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: they're calling a bowl and he's saying that both of 534 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: them simul like virtue like almost simultaneously launch arrows, both 535 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: hit the one that seems to me can you look 536 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: at and be like, are you oh you're drawn your 537 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: bows drawn? Are they with each other or are they 538 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: in different spots? Because if they could see each other, 539 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: it's not like a subtle thing you're doing there. Typically 540 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: set up is like twenty to fifty yards spread out, 541 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: one guy in front, one guy typically, but I mean 542 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: I've also called in bulls standing right next to the 543 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: dude and been whispering in his ears when to draw 544 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: a bow. So yeah, I don't know, thick timber. He 545 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: could have been ten yards away and definitely been could 546 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,479 Speaker 1: have drawn and been doing jumping Jackson. The other guy 547 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't have to see what was so anyways, Uh, they 548 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: split the meat like it always happens, and uh they 549 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: can decide on who should get the antlers. The dude 550 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: who was supposed to be shooting, Yeah, he got a 551 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: bad hit. He got a bad hip. I have not killed. 552 00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: He blamed his bad hit on the fact that the 553 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: other guys shot. That's what I was thinking right now. 554 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: They're going when they're they alternate years, they swap it 555 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: out each other's houses. It seems like two nice guys, right, Yeah, 556 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: I know a lot of guys that would not be 557 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: so nice. I saw it down in the middle, and 558 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: does he each have an antlic That's what I'm saying. 559 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: I didn't you know what, you know what he might 560 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: not be realizing you can do when you saw something 561 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: in half. He probably don't realize how you're supposed to 562 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: put that to your wall would be pretty bitch in 563 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: his half. Learn don't put it aiming out, you cut 564 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: it down the school. Did they mounit or just have 565 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: the school? I didn't say they mounited. I don't know 566 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do. No one wants to saw 567 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: it wants, and that's just the old school. If it's 568 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: the old school, where he's looking where the mount is 569 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: a shoulder mountain looking dead nuts forward, so you can 570 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: put it right on the wall, so then you can 571 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: split it, turned it sideways and plastered against the wall. 572 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: That actually, if it's the school, you cut it and 573 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: don't have him looking out. You have him plastered against 574 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: the wall, which looks very cool. Yeah, and then you're 575 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: like kind of artistic, maybe an innovator. Your wife's gonna 576 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: like it to get a house with the same floor 577 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: plan too. That'd be help that'd be helpful. We were 578 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: going to do that. One time. We were gonna band 579 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: saw a buck down the middle because it kind of 580 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: kind of stepped out in a narrow opening, and a 581 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: buddy and I were ten yards apart and just both 582 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: pulled up and fired both hit it. And what happened? 583 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: Who got to keep it? Uh? We we split the meat, 584 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: brought it back um, and we talked about it, all 585 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: sorts of stuff we were going to do. And the 586 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: school was lying around for a while, and I did 587 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: the European mount and it was sitting in my house 588 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: and who tagged it? Kept senting I tagged it. I 589 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: feel like whoever tags it, but we were going to 590 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: cut that he never he never asked for it, never 591 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: asked for it back and kind of think got out 592 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: of hunting and he kind of blocked his number. But like, 593 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: I st't know, but whoever tagged it took a hit, right, 594 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: You don't know that they're taking that they're filling the 595 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: tag for the team. You took the question to a 596 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: game warden. To game warden, would wanted to go to 597 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: who tagged it? And if you did a curvy shoulder 598 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: a mount with the deer's looking at curvy and then 599 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: you split it dead nuts down the spine and split 600 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: the thing, then you have a curvy wall, which is tricky. Yeah, 601 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: you have to in a castle. Yeah, or they have 602 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: the planetarium or or they have the parapet um seth. 603 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: You were telling me, so you kind of walked us 604 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: through the thing of how you became a competitive shooter. Um, 605 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: how First I want to ask you another question. I 606 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: want to get into how this all happens, how a 607 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: fellow gets into this. But you were telling me that 608 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: that you used to shoot pistols competitively, right, So that's 609 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: why I did o how to stay with pistol. And 610 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: you're saying that some guys set the trigger so light 611 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: that if you pointed towards the sky and shake it, 612 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: it goes off. Yeah, so that's an event that they 613 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: actually just removed from the Olympics. But it's called shooting 614 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: this not for that reason. For that reason, it's called 615 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: where you just run around. So they're some of those 616 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: guys are running like fifty to seventy Graham triggers on 617 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: those things. It's called it's called free pistol, and so 618 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: it sounds super dangerous, but the reality is is that 619 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: you've got it right. You've got your pistol pointed downrange 620 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: and you it's most of them are some sort of 621 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: falling block, you know, So you're one explain folks. So it's, uh, 622 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the Ruger number ones if you've 623 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: ever seen those. You've got a little switch on the 624 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: bottom where you just flicking open, it drops a block down, 625 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: You put the bullet in, your close it back up, 626 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: the block comes up and locks it in. So it's 627 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: kind of a like a block mechanism behind the chamber, 628 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: and that's how most of them works. I'm sort of 629 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: falling block for the single shot, so it's twenty two. 630 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: You put your round in, lock it, and then you're 631 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: aiming down your lane and there's usually you know, they 632 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: have wind breaks or something. So you've got six or 633 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: eight shooters and you know, maybe four that are wide, 634 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: and then you've got your targets outdoor you shoot it's 635 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: fifty meters away. Yeah, so you kind of damn hard 636 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: with the pistol. Yeah, and it's about a to just 637 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: under two inch bowls eye at fifty so it's I 638 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: mean it's smaller in a coffee cup. Lad, So they're 639 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: two small. So if you come up and you were 640 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: to accidentally, you know, touch this thing off, that's a 641 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: zero and it's ten ten nine eight out is how 642 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: it scored. So you dropped ten points on one shot 643 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: and you gotta count, I mean you count it, so 644 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: that's ten points down. No, it's well, it's international international 645 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: pistol style, so it's Olympic they shoot it all over 646 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: the world Cups. And did you ever shoot that competition? 647 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: Which one free? The more talk about yep, yep free 648 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: was one of my events in college that I shot. 649 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: So raising a pistol and shooting something that's two inches 650 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: in diameter at fifty yards, So we shot a lot 651 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: of indoor. Your fifty foot indoor targets about the size 652 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: of a dime for your ten ring, how many shots 653 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 1: in a roll can you put in there? The best 654 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: I've ever done is like eleven I think out of 655 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: sixty in a row um for a full match in 656 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: the twenties somewhere. The key with three pistol is not 657 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: screwing up and shooting seventh and eight. So if you 658 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: shoot a bunch of tens, if you can hold the 659 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,439 Speaker 1: nine ring, that's like the world's best shooters are pretty 660 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: much holding nine ring with a lot of tens, and 661 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: your nine rings at fifty about I don't know, four 662 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: inches probably, So it's about keeping a group. And now 663 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: they've changed some of that. They went away from if 664 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: you touch the ring it scores higher to now they 665 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: do a lot of it on a decimal. So if 666 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: you shoot a center center, it's ten point nine, and 667 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: if you shoot just touch on the edge of it, 668 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: it's a ten point zero, and if you go just 669 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: outside it's a nine point nine. So rather than going 670 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: you know guys that can shoot super deep shots and 671 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: then throwing eight, you're going to score better than now 672 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: because it's all just decimals, so it's like how close 673 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: can you keep them to the middle, So it's a 674 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: little bit more fair, I guess that way. Why did 675 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: the Olympics get rid of this kind of thing, Well, 676 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: a lot of it is. It's not Some of them 677 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: aren't super fun to watch. I mean, this is like 678 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: a marathon of shooting. So you're shooting at fifty it's 679 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: sixty shots in two hours, so it's super long. And 680 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with they've kind 681 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: of are going away from sports that aren't men and 682 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: women together shoot. So you go to some of the 683 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 1: rifle events, there's a lot more crossover. You're wearing jackets 684 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: and you're shooting in a more controlled environment and like 685 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: some of the ladies, I'll shoot the guys, whereas free 686 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: pistol is a more of a there's a lot more 687 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: physical involved. You don't get any real supports, you're not 688 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: wearing you know, jackets or pants or anything to make 689 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: your position better. Canvas yea canvas, like a super thick canvas, 690 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: so you get locked in there and you literally or 691 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: can't even move, so it's super stable so they're kind 692 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: of going away from sports that can't be UM both genders, 693 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: I guess, and it's not super exciting to watch, I guess. 694 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: So so what are the other shooting sports that are 695 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: in the Olympics? UM live shotgun. That's a big one 696 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: in the shotgun because you know, you go to the 697 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: Middle Eastern some of those countries and shotguns a huge, 698 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: huge deal. It's a big money sport in a lot 699 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: of places. They do air pistol still, so air pistol, 700 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: air rifle, and then small bowl rifle, and then they 701 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: still do rapid fire pistol, which is a twenty two 702 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: event where you've got five big bulls eyes, which is 703 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: what I shot when I went to the Army. They're 704 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: just big black bulls eyes at twenty five and your 705 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: tend rings pretty big, it's like three or three and 706 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: a half inches, and that's a more dynamics. So you 707 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: start with your gun at a forty five down and 708 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: they've got lights or turning targets. Most of the upper 709 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: class ones are lights and when the light goes off, 710 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: you gotta come up and one, two, five shoot your 711 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: shots and they do it eight seconds for your you 712 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: do two series of eight second, two, series of six second, two, 713 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: series of four seconds. I've watched that before and it's 714 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: not boring at least, it's pretty cool. And they've changed 715 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,240 Speaker 1: it for the finals to where rather than being scoring, 716 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: if you're a nine point five, you get a hit. 717 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: Nine point five are better you get a hit. If 718 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: you're nine point four or lowers, it's a miss. So 719 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: when you come up, you just one to three and 720 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: then they just, oh, this guy got four hits. So 721 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: people can just look at that. It's really easy to oh, 722 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: he shot a nine point nine. It's like, I don't 723 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: know what that means. What's a nine point nine or 724 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: ten point two. I really enjoy watching the biathlon. Yeah, 725 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: that's that's got to be my favorite at Olympics. That's 726 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: kind of the only one that I think people know 727 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: is in the Olympics, right, the other ones that's like 728 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: the rest of them in summer. Yeah, yeah, not when 729 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: they're doing Olympic Games. Summer biathlon the own the winter 730 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: shooting sport, UM, I believe, so I don't think they 731 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: have any strict shooting sports. I think it's just the 732 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: ski and ski and shoot. What countries are the best shooters? Um? 733 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: America is decent. It depends like shotgun, Like we're Vinca 734 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: Hancock is. He's won gold medals that just about every 735 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: Olympics that he's went to. So we've got some really 736 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: really solid shock. The most metal Olympians are shooters, right, 737 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: A lot of them well besides you know, swimmers, but 738 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: um yeah, the so they've got shotguns. Good for US. 739 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: I'd say the big ones are UM, China is usually 740 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: pretty good, South Korea, some of those the Asian countries 741 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: put a lot of effort into it. Russia has a 742 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: really long standing tradition of shooting um super well, and 743 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: that kind of depends rapid fire. There's some Germans that 744 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: shoot really really well on rapid fire free pistol. It's 745 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: kind of a mix. There's like you know, kind of 746 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: the bigger countries. A lot of the European countries are 747 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: really big indusries. So the people that just generally kick 748 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: ass at the Olympics. The US Russia like shooting pretty much, 749 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: not like weird outliers, um not really shotguns kind of 750 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: one because you get like you know, azerber John has 751 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: a shotgun shooter that comes out and it's like doing 752 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: really well. You know some random is there a wing 753 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: shooting culture in the Arab world? Um, Like, I know 754 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: there's big into falconry. I don't know, you know, I 755 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: haven't really paid that much attention to it, but I know, um, 756 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: when I was on the army team, they had a 757 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: shotgun team and those guys would go over and shoot, 758 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 1: and I guess some of the places they go are 759 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 1: just super posh, you know, marble trap houses and all 760 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: sorts of craziness. Yeah, and talking about hunting, you know, 761 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is like the sporting side, 762 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: but one of the things that they that's big in 763 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: the shotgun kind of almost like the underground, is they 764 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: do pigeon shoots. And so what they do is they 765 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: have a box with a spring in it, and then 766 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: they have a ring at like, you know, say forty 767 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: fifty yards across. I think it's smaller than that actually, 768 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: and it's got like a four inch fence and so 769 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: they've got this ring around it. So you sit back 770 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: at certain distances and they basically pushed the button and 771 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: it springs this pigeon out there can why, and then 772 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: you got to shoot the pigeon. If it falls inside 773 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: the ring, you get the point and if it falls 774 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: outside of the ring, then you don't. That's not an 775 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: Olympic game though, no, no, no, this is just I 776 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: don't see that, you know, popular in America. I will 777 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: have admit to having done that before, and it's big money. 778 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: But they still do tower shoots. AlOH yeah, some kid 779 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: climbs up in the tower and starts throws, starts throwing 780 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: peasants over the ring. I did it in the Dominican 781 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: Republic and there was five boxes, right you say, pull 782 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: and Stig street pigeon comes flying out of the one 783 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: of the five boxes and launches them. It launches them out, 784 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: It springs them out because they they're captives, so they 785 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, pin their wings and they put them in 786 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: the box, unpin them and they springs them out and 787 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: you shoot them if they fall. But before they get 788 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: over the fence, you get a point. What's the diameter 789 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: of the of the fence? Well, heat, No, it's not 790 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,720 Speaker 1: I've only ever done that one time and I decided 791 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: that I probably won't do that again. You know, you 792 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: know how people never done it. But it's big money. 793 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: I mean, people in the towers money on different shooters 794 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: and you can buy shooters and I'll cut us find 795 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: it's I mean, people are flying in on lear jets 796 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: to shoot these things, do you Honestand we talk about 797 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: turkey shoots like when I was a kid, I grew 798 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: up by a gun club, a private gun twenty gun club. Um, 799 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: and if I'm not mistaken, man, actually I need to 800 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: I need to call some folks back home and ask 801 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: me if I'm not mistaken. They when I was a 802 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: little little kid, they would dig a ditch and put 803 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: turkeys in the ditch with just their head sticking out right. Yes, okay, 804 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: And if you hit the turkey, you got to keep 805 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: it and bring it home and cook it for Thanksgiving. 806 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 1: And it was a long ways out. It was like 807 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: remember it was like I feel like it was like 808 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: you had to use the twenty two and the turkeys 809 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: were way the hell out and you could just see 810 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: their heads behind a berm And if you could hit 811 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: the turkey, that's your turkey. Do you feel like that's 812 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: the origination of the term turkey. I don't think I'm 813 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm making this up. Put him in 814 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: a box. Yeah, the old school like these by the 815 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: time when I was a kid, shooting was you shot 816 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: a target and then you got a frozen turkey if 817 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: you want, I think that was a PC version. It's 818 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: like competition. Yeah. Yeah. I did some work for my 819 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: buddy Randy Bam at a turkey slaughter facility. And if 820 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: I was if you put me in a turkey, if 821 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,720 Speaker 1: you made me a turkey and I had and you said, okay, 822 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: you're thanksgivings quickly approaching. Um. You can go to Bill Maher, 823 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: the turkey slaughter facility that we did some working and 824 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: you'll die there. Or you can go to twin a 825 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: gun club and die there. I would go to twin 826 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,240 Speaker 1: a gun club to die. Can we can we clarify 827 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: that Bill Maher not like the comedian guy. He doesn't know. 828 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 1: Oh no, it's like b I L hyphen M A R. 829 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: I think, look at these guys that up, these guys slaughter. 830 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: I think when they're gearing up, I feel like they're 831 00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: slaughtering twenty thousand turkeys in a day or something like 832 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: the or some insane number. And it's like a dude, 833 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: it's a turkey. Turkeys runner un Turkeys would get out 834 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: of the trucks and get away and once they hit 835 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: the ground because they're all in a controlled environment. So 836 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: we had all we had all the materials, like Ronnie 837 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: eas Millwright, and we we'd have our materials in the 838 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: parking lot and you'd come in the morning and you'd 839 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,879 Speaker 1: find turkeys hiding out in the parking lot in our 840 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: material like because they'd get out of the truck and 841 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: once they got the truck, they couldn't massle them. And 842 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: so the turkeys go try to find a place to hide, 843 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 1: and guys that work with catch those turkeys, bring them home. 844 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: And remember this guy Rick, he made a little cage 845 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: at home. It would take the turkeys he caught out 846 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: the parking lot and put him in the cage and 847 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: fatten them up in the cage and make smoke turkeys 848 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: out of him. Good old day. If it's if it's 849 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: more PC. If it's more then it's it's not even 850 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: political cracktics whatever. If it's if it's regarded as more 851 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: ethical to have a guy hit a target and give 852 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: him a frozen turkey, I I just challenge that. I'm 853 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: not I have no opinion on the matter, but I 854 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: just my coming up. It had changed right, it was 855 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: a turkey shoot, like I were on the turkey shoot 856 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: and all the ones I did were muzzle order based, 857 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: so it was all black powder open sites. And I 858 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: want to remember when into my first frozen turkey was 859 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: quite the accomplishment. I think I took a picture with it, 860 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: like Griffin Grinn do you know? Daring? Um, I'm gonna 861 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: pivot back into uh Wayne shooting whatnot? Daring? The Clinton administration, 862 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: they very early on when they first identified Ben Ladden 863 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: as a threat. They he was out hunting birds in 864 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:39,479 Speaker 1: the desert at a falconry camp and they debated hitting 865 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: him there. This is like way back like ninety two 866 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: or something like that. They debated hitting him there, but 867 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,479 Speaker 1: there was some other high profile sawdies who were also 868 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: hunting out of that same camp, and they decided against it. 869 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: So they almost got him hunting A good way to 870 00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 1: go that that that was my pivot because watch, I'll 871 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: wrap it up. So since they you know there's that 872 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: bird hunting culture through falconry, there's also a shotgunning culture there. 873 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,839 Speaker 1: And you were a competitive shotgun shooter. I never really 874 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: shot competitively. Well, I thought that, So what did you 875 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: do in high school? Shot um pistol? Pistol, That's what 876 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: it was. And then for some reason I thought you 877 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: you went and you were doing like the competitive wing shooting, 878 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: not wingshooting, but ski I shot it a little bit, 879 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 1: played with it. I had my roommate shot competitively, but yeah, 880 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: I was always pistol all the way through. How did 881 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: you how did you first, like start, how did you 882 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: get into that? So I kind of started through a 883 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,760 Speaker 1: local club when I was in high school and buildings 884 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: we had on the competitive side and we shot small 885 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 1: bow rifle, twenty rifle and then uh air rifle, and 886 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: so I shot that for a couple of years and 887 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: then and I was okay. But there's a it's a 888 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: lot of uh kind of building up a system of shooting. 889 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you're trying to get your position now in lockdown. 890 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: That's most of what rifle shooting is is the position. 891 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: So you're trying to get super stable so that you're 892 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: right literally doesn't move, and it takes a while to 893 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: kind of develop that. So right, so you're shooting three position, 894 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: you're shooting offhand, kneeling and prone and prone. Obviously it's 895 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: pretty easy. Everything's with a sling and peep sites, so 896 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: that that's pretty easy, and getting into your kneeling and 897 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: off hand positions takes a little bit more time. So 898 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: I was decent, but not really great. And then I 899 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: started shooting pistol as kind of an add on to that, 900 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: and it was a lot better at pistol, and I 901 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: enjoyed it more. There's you know, to put them all 902 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,359 Speaker 1: the jackets and drag your suitcase around with all your gear. 903 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,919 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm a little bit less structured in that regard, 904 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: so I had more fun with it. How good can 905 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: a person get with its funny to you rifle? Um? 906 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: Pretty good? Like what kind of hundred yard group can 907 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: you shoot with the twenty two oh under an inch? 908 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: Like with a sling and a shooting just off a sling, 909 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: prone shooting offhand stuff, Um, they don't really shoot hunter. 910 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,399 Speaker 1: All their matches are fifty yards. So but most guys 911 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: that are good can hold pretty much hold half inch 912 00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,920 Speaker 1: group shooting all the way through three position. Yeah, they'll 913 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: they'll drop some points, but prone it's to be a 914 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: competitive at the pro level, you have to shoot at 915 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 1: six sixty out of sixty at fifty yards and that's 916 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: wind calls. So you're shooting your you know, it's about 917 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: half an inch bulls eye that you're shooting at. So yeah, 918 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 1: if you're at the not even the national level, the 919 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 1: top two or three guys will I'll be cleaning them 920 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,959 Speaker 1: sixty out of sixty shooting peep sites. Have you hunted 921 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: squirrels much a little bit or cotton tails? Yeah? I was. 922 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: I was stationed in Georgia, so George and Alabama is 923 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,399 Speaker 1: pretty pretty much bout hunting all that stuff. So these 924 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: guys with hunt they could hunt, so they could hunt 925 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 1: squirrels and just shoot off hand and hit squirrels out 926 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: of the trees in the head. Yeah, those guys are 927 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: some of those guys are nuts. How well how well 928 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: they shoot? Yeah, I shoot a twenty two rifle decent. 929 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm not you know, some of those guys are pretty good. 930 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, I alwaysally just messed around to take my 931 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: glock nine all to go squirrel hunting. Just get get 932 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: up on that and you could get that good with that. Yeah, 933 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,399 Speaker 1: I can hit squirrels with it. Okah. Best So funny story. 934 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 1: A buddy of mine, who's who's it back in the 935 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 1: service now, he's actually one of the Special Forces groups. Now, 936 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 1: I was in the marksmanship unit with we were teaching classes, 937 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: because when you're in the Army Marksmanship Unit, it's kind 938 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: of a duel. You have to be an instructor and 939 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: a competitive shooter. So you you do your training and 940 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 1: you compete, but you also were on the instructor instructing 941 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,719 Speaker 1: side of it. And the unit started in fifty six 942 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: and the the idea was is, hey, we need to 943 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: figure out how to teach people to shoot well. So 944 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: what's what better way to do that than have people compete? 945 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: And then they learned the best way of doing everything, 946 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,759 Speaker 1: and then they convert that to the military and then 947 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: teach all the joes. So that was kind of the 948 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: mission statement of the unit and it stayed pretty much 949 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: the same all the way through. And that was the 950 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 1: unit you were in. Yeah, yeah, the Army Markmanship Unit. 951 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 1: And it's and that's they're still you know, your titles 952 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,879 Speaker 1: a shooter instructor, so your training, but then you're also 953 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,399 Speaker 1: going in teaching, which I found that to be, uh, 954 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: probably the more rewarding side of it, just because you're 955 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: working with guys that just could literally save their life 956 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,320 Speaker 1: and you know, help them to be effective. So we 957 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: had a class and we were teaching. There was about 958 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,719 Speaker 1: twenty guys, and it was a close quarters marksmanship c 959 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 1: q M stuff. So you're shooting rifle, you know, car 960 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,880 Speaker 1: beings and pistols out to fifty yards. It's kind of 961 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: the running gun if you think shooting type stuff. So 962 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,479 Speaker 1: we're at this class and a lot of the guys 963 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,760 Speaker 1: to qualify, we had a six inch dot at fifteen 964 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 1: yards and that was kind of the standard that we 965 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: tried to get them too by the end of the class. 966 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 1: So everybody was kind of shooting, and it was lunchtime, 967 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,160 Speaker 1: and whenever it is lunch, we had amman around and guns, 968 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:16,840 Speaker 1: so we always just kind of kept shooting. So my 969 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,239 Speaker 1: buddy was out there shooting and we look up on 970 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,799 Speaker 1: the berm and it's kind of about eighty yards this berm, 971 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 1: and then maybe thirty or forty up to the top, 972 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: and there's this fox squirrel that's running along this berm, 973 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:30,680 Speaker 1: and so we see this thing like I was like, hey, hey, 974 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,800 Speaker 1: there's a squirrel up there. So of course, you know, 975 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 1: it's open season on squirrels, and we're like all right. 976 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: So the squirrel kind of comes down the berm a 977 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: little bit and Buddy walks forward yards. He's not right 978 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: next to the class. They're all kind of sitting under 979 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: this covered area and this squirrels maybe seventy eight yards 980 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,360 Speaker 1: away and it's sitting in this tree, and so he 981 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,480 Speaker 1: pulls out his glock, you know, thirty four. It's like 982 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,279 Speaker 1: a long slide clock, nine millimeter, and everybody's looking at 983 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:54,880 Speaker 1: him like, yeah, there's no way, you know, we've been 984 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:56,720 Speaker 1: trying to hit the six inch dot. So he shoots 985 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,719 Speaker 1: and I think he missed his first shot at it. 986 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: Second shot, he smoked this thing and it's like hanging 987 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,919 Speaker 1: from the tree. So he shoots again, missed his third shot, 988 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: shoots again, hits it again. It's fourth time and it falls. 989 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 1: So he runs up there and grabs the squirrel. So 990 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 1: it was really funny watching the expression on all these 991 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,360 Speaker 1: guys's face. They're like, this guy just shot a squirrel 992 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: of a tree like eighty yards away with a nine 993 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,840 Speaker 1: millimeter clock. So that's how that's kind of where you 994 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:22,319 Speaker 1: can get with some of that stuff. So those guys 995 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 1: that you shoot all the time, it's just it's crazy 996 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 1: how accurates something you can get, especially with a pistol. 997 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,239 Speaker 1: You know, we carry pistols for bare protection sometimes and 998 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 1: now and then we'll get around shooting the pistols. It's embarrassing. 999 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,919 Speaker 1: It's so hard. Well, we took one class um from 1000 00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,760 Speaker 1: really well known instructor. By the end of that class 1001 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,919 Speaker 1: we get all hit uh gong at a hundred yards 1002 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:55,960 Speaker 1: with uh and it's it's form, man form and and 1003 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: just and the mental thing. There's like a mental thing 1004 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 1: and like I can't hit stuff with a pistol. And 1005 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: it's like then you watch somebody pull up and shoot 1006 00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: a man sized target at like two hundred yards like 1007 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,439 Speaker 1: ding ding ding ding ding ding, and you're like, Okay, 1008 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 1: it's voodoo, and it's like, no, it's not. You just 1009 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: have to you gotta get your mind right. There's like 1010 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: a certain way of thinking about pistols and triggering in 1011 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: sights and then once you get the form, like how 1012 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,560 Speaker 1: to lock it down. The most the most shooting disciplines 1013 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,359 Speaker 1: are like that, right, I mean, shooting a thousand yards 1014 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: with the rifle seems intimidating until you lay down and 1015 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: have somebody tell you how to do it. Yeah, it's true. 1016 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,040 Speaker 1: You have a spot or to you know, to walk 1017 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 1: you through it, and you've got control. I think that's 1018 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: the other thing about pistols. It's there's nothing. There's no 1019 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 1: support system where rife. But you've got a stock and 1020 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,200 Speaker 1: you've got you know, you can kind of make it 1021 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,880 Speaker 1: stop moving and keep it from like twitching. It's like pistol, 1022 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 1: any little thing. It's all about the mechanics of how 1023 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 1: you're shooting it, and it goes back to just repetitions. 1024 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,719 Speaker 1: But that was kind of our thing in training. It's 1025 00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,800 Speaker 1: the most boring thing in the world, but trying to 1026 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 1: get your hold super super tight. So we would literally 1027 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: hold against a wall for half hour forty five minutes 1028 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,920 Speaker 1: a day, and you work on body sway because you 1029 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,480 Speaker 1: naturally sway when you stand, so you're trying to eliminate 1030 00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,839 Speaker 1: all that so that you're not moving your site back 1031 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,319 Speaker 1: and forth on the target. You say, hold against the wall. 1032 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,319 Speaker 1: You just had your arm up. Yeah, but what does 1033 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: that mean like you're pushing. Nope. You just take a 1034 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,360 Speaker 1: pistol and you hold it about a foot from the 1035 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,239 Speaker 1: wall and you've got a dot and you just try 1036 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,480 Speaker 1: and hold it on that dot. Is basically work through 1037 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 1: your body and try and get all the movement out 1038 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: and just work on keeping that as still as possible, 1039 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,200 Speaker 1: and you kind of build up all your little stabilizer muscles. 1040 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,840 Speaker 1: But it's it's crazy how tight you can hold with 1041 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,560 Speaker 1: the pistol once you've if you've trained that for so long, 1042 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 1: because if you're shooting that something so small, you can't 1043 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,480 Speaker 1: be if you're moving around a lot, you know your 1044 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: wobble area. You're trying to get that as small as possible, 1045 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,200 Speaker 1: and then you just it's like any other pistol. You're 1046 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 1: trying to break it inside that little wobble. But the 1047 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 1: smaller you get it, the more consistent you'll be in 1048 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:39,640 Speaker 1: the more you know your score will go up. How 1049 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,360 Speaker 1: much do your sites matter to you? Like if you 1050 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,399 Speaker 1: have all your mechanics that matters if because you think 1051 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,360 Speaker 1: about it, you know if you're off by a millimeter 1052 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,240 Speaker 1: on your side alignment, that's throwing you off by inches 1053 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,400 Speaker 1: at even fifty feet, so you know it it sites 1054 00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,320 Speaker 1: front sight, side alignment. The targets blurry when we shoot, 1055 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,440 Speaker 1: you're just it's literally just locking those sights in. And 1056 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,600 Speaker 1: we had the national coach name is Sergey lose Off. 1057 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,080 Speaker 1: He was a Russian shot running target over in Russian 1058 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:05,719 Speaker 1: and then came over with a pistol coach, so he 1059 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,480 Speaker 1: had an accent. But he's like, you know, and I 1060 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:09,919 Speaker 1: don't know if I can do a good Russian accent 1061 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,280 Speaker 1: or not, but he's like Ukrainian. I think, all right, Russia, 1062 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: we're pretty what you have to do, He's like, it's 1063 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,600 Speaker 1: like we have It's like you got to think about 1064 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,200 Speaker 1: it like this. It's it's like your front sites are 1065 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: not like this. Uh, you're just watching this child walk 1066 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,880 Speaker 1: around the room. He's like, he's like, you have to 1067 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:26,759 Speaker 1: grab the child and slam him on the on the 1068 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 1: table and like holding there. That's how you work. The 1069 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,239 Speaker 1: sites sounds Russian and I was like, oh sir, He's like, 1070 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, they're not just passive. It's like you need 1071 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,480 Speaker 1: to grab them. I was like, okay, okay, I got it. 1072 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: Sites are important. Can you Is there anyone that makes 1073 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:50,399 Speaker 1: Does anyone make money shooting competitively? Is there any like paid? Um? Well, 1074 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,680 Speaker 1: if you're good, that's the key. And I know some 1075 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,279 Speaker 1: of the guys that I shot within the unit, like 1076 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,880 Speaker 1: three guns pretty a lot of guys get out and 1077 00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,480 Speaker 1: they go work for you know, some of the guys 1078 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,000 Speaker 1: that were went now top shooter for cig for instance. 1079 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,040 Speaker 1: So you go get an industry job like that, Yeah, 1080 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,360 Speaker 1: you make good money or um vincent Um that shoots 1081 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,120 Speaker 1: shotgun a lot of Hancock. He's a you know, multi 1082 00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: time gold medalists, so he's out of the army now 1083 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,920 Speaker 1: and does a lot of training seminars so he'll go 1084 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,160 Speaker 1: and has his own kind of training system and does that. 1085 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:18,759 Speaker 1: So you can make money on that side of it. 1086 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,800 Speaker 1: But generally speaking, unless you're really really good or you 1087 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,840 Speaker 1: get sponsorships, there's not when you're not going out and 1088 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,839 Speaker 1: winning a hundred thousand dollars. YEA three gun is really 1089 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: the main one where guys could make because you're gonna 1090 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,360 Speaker 1: get sponsored by several companies that basically pays. There's some payouts. 1091 00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,839 Speaker 1: Explain three gun for people. So three gun is uh, 1092 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 1: it's an action sport where you're shooting rifle, pistol shotgun. 1093 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,000 Speaker 1: So it's a running gun. Anybody that shot like I, 1094 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,239 Speaker 1: D P A, U, s P, s A, any of 1095 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,120 Speaker 1: the action pistol stuff. You're running those guns and there's 1096 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: different classes so you can run. Some of them are 1097 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,319 Speaker 1: race guns ports and a dot on them don't even move. 1098 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,520 Speaker 1: And then you've got limited which is more you know, 1099 00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: you have to shoot iron sights and you're limited on 1100 00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,279 Speaker 1: some of your magazine stuff, and then production is just 1101 00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,200 Speaker 1: like a stock glock. You can change a couple of things, 1102 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,319 Speaker 1: but not a lot, so there's different classes. And then 1103 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,560 Speaker 1: it's just running through a course and you'll have you know, 1104 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,320 Speaker 1: a R fifteen target air fifteen rifle and you're shooting 1105 00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: targets that are either paper steel, so you have like 1106 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: knocked down fall down plates. You know a lot of 1107 00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,680 Speaker 1: steel and it's either two hits on steel or one 1108 00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:16,880 Speaker 1: hit on steel knock them over. And then you've got 1109 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,319 Speaker 1: paper targets with rings so like a ring b ring 1110 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, see ring type stuff. So you're just running 1111 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,799 Speaker 1: through a course and you have it all three guns 1112 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,160 Speaker 1: at once, not not usually some of them. Um so 1113 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,160 Speaker 1: there's a match and I haven't shot a lot of 1114 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,560 Speaker 1: three guns, but they had had a match that um MGM. 1115 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,400 Speaker 1: It's like the metal target company they sponsored out in Idaho, 1116 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,560 Speaker 1: like eastern southeastern Idaho called the Iron Man, and so 1117 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: their stages were I mean you'd run a stage and 1118 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,600 Speaker 1: be like four or five minutes long, and you have 1119 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,600 Speaker 1: to drag dummies and like have weights and you shoot 1120 00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,040 Speaker 1: i mean like sixty shots a shotgun and you start 1121 00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: you're like loading a shotgun, go through like four magazines 1122 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,440 Speaker 1: on your pistol, and it was just super long stages 1123 00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,880 Speaker 1: and you're running through and so they say you start here, 1124 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,480 Speaker 1: you gotta shoot this bank of targets and you could 1125 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,560 Speaker 1: miss stuff and you know, you're trying to keep track 1126 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: of everything and like, oh, you didn't see that target, 1127 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 1: and so that's those are kind of fun. And then 1128 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,239 Speaker 1: a lot of them are more controlled, where's a tight 1129 00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,960 Speaker 1: stage and you just kind of run through and play 1130 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,800 Speaker 1: the game and it's all about speed and accuracy. So 1131 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,080 Speaker 1: how fast can you move? The guys that are really 1132 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: really good at it, you can break down the stage 1133 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,239 Speaker 1: and find the least amount of movement. And it's they 1134 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: don't tell you how to shoot anything, so you can 1135 00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,279 Speaker 1: shoot pretty much any order as long as you're not 1136 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, shooting back. It's like a one eight plane 1137 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,880 Speaker 1: that you can't break and people just work through it 1138 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,799 Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty cool that like hitting all the targets. Yeah, 1139 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,600 Speaker 1: and you're just trying to, you know, go through and 1140 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,319 Speaker 1: hit everything as fast as you can and the least 1141 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,160 Speaker 1: amount of movement and then it's all time time versus hits. Yeah, 1142 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,840 Speaker 1: a lot of times they'll be a shooting house or 1143 00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,040 Speaker 1: like to answer your question about where the guns are, 1144 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,840 Speaker 1: you'll have like a barreled shotguns and some of them 1145 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:52,120 Speaker 1: are or air fifteen on the table, so you know, 1146 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,120 Speaker 1: some of them make you pack them so you shoot 1147 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: it and then you gotta sling it. Like that's where 1148 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:56,520 Speaker 1: I was going with the Iron Man. It's like you 1149 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,480 Speaker 1: gotta sling stuff and carry it sometimes. But a lot 1150 00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,440 Speaker 1: of them, like you said, you shoot your pistol drop 1151 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,440 Speaker 1: in a box, grab your rifles. Should your rifle drop 1152 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,880 Speaker 1: in a box, grab your shotgun, finish it out, clear it. 1153 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,279 Speaker 1: So that's to keep it safe. And are the mill 1154 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,120 Speaker 1: a dude? The military guys dominate this or there people 1155 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 1: who've never been in the military, they're good at um. Both. 1156 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,000 Speaker 1: It comes out of training. You know obviously in the unit. 1157 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,120 Speaker 1: If you've got guns face you know that. Think cool 1158 00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:18,280 Speaker 1: thing about the a m U is we had a 1159 00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: fully functional gun shop with full time guys that are 1160 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 1: working on machining, I mean full on CNC machines. They 1161 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: could pretty much redesign and build anything you wanted them to. 1162 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,080 Speaker 1: Full reloading room guys that all they do is reload 1163 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,520 Speaker 1: and test. So in terms of figuring out the market, 1164 00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,560 Speaker 1: you've got guys like that, which is obviously an advantage, 1165 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,280 Speaker 1: but a lot of it's just time on the range 1166 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,160 Speaker 1: and bullets range. It's time and run through, run through 1167 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,280 Speaker 1: your stages. Like everything has to be muscle memory. How 1168 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:43,680 Speaker 1: do I cut off a half a second on the 1169 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,320 Speaker 1: shotgun reload? How do I cut off half a second 1170 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,280 Speaker 1: on this movement? Half a second here? Because that adds 1171 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,280 Speaker 1: up and that's the difference between first and tenth. I 1172 00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,360 Speaker 1: tried this some years ago, and it was reloading that 1173 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,080 Speaker 1: got me all the time. Reloading a shot shotguns horrible 1174 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,680 Speaker 1: and I was horrible, like fumbling everywhere. You drop around 1175 00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 1: like oh, pick that up, and then you know, if 1176 00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 1: you don't get them all in there, you're just gonna 1177 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: miss one, like you just and then you got to 1178 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,479 Speaker 1: keep going. Yeah, but military is good. We we shot 1179 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,120 Speaker 1: some of that styled stuff, so there's kind of a 1180 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,840 Speaker 1: competitive side. And when we were in we stood up 1181 00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,120 Speaker 1: a team. So the last year that was in the 1182 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: unit actually went over we called the I T. G 1183 00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: and Structure Training Group and usually what we did we 1184 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,600 Speaker 1: had the pistol shooters kind of teach the close range stuff, 1185 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:19,480 Speaker 1: you know. The Service Pistol International pistol, and then the 1186 00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,200 Speaker 1: rifle shooters that were on the rifle teams, they taught 1187 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,840 Speaker 1: kind of the long range wind calling in position stuff 1188 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,760 Speaker 1: and it worked okay, and what we did, um some 1189 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,320 Speaker 1: guys stood it up. And then I actually joined the 1190 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:32,840 Speaker 1: team after they had kind of started working on it 1191 00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,480 Speaker 1: was to develop a curriculum that said, hey, we've got 1192 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,280 Speaker 1: guys like like myself and other guys have shot through 1193 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,000 Speaker 1: college and we had you know, six a ten years 1194 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,200 Speaker 1: of shooting experience. And then we had guys that came 1195 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,800 Speaker 1: over from like the third range of battalions at Fort Bennings. 1196 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:48,800 Speaker 1: A lot of those guys would come over. So you've 1197 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,200 Speaker 1: got guys that have been deployed six ten times and 1198 00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,040 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time, you know, years in combat. 1199 00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:56,120 Speaker 1: And then you take those guys you say, all right, 1200 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,720 Speaker 1: what's effective in combat? What's effective if you're if you're 1201 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,240 Speaker 1: in houses, if you're knocking on door, or is if 1202 00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,080 Speaker 1: you shooting long range? What type of situations do you see? 1203 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:03,960 Speaker 1: How do you make this effective? And then we took 1204 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,160 Speaker 1: our shooting ability. So I know how to pull a trigger, 1205 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:07,840 Speaker 1: I know how to run a gun, but how do 1206 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: you kind of meld the two together so that you're 1207 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,640 Speaker 1: running a gun so it's combat effective and that was 1208 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,960 Speaker 1: really really cool, and then developing programs through that. So 1209 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,360 Speaker 1: we trained a lot of kind of three guns. But 1210 00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:19,880 Speaker 1: it's like, how do you get your kid efficient? How 1211 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:21,360 Speaker 1: do you get the stuff quickly? How where do you 1212 00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,000 Speaker 1: put your magazines? How do you set up your rifle 1213 00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,720 Speaker 1: so that you're not you know, everything's quick inefficient. So 1214 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,120 Speaker 1: efficiency of movement is important no matter what what your shoot, 1215 00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,360 Speaker 1: if it's combat or if it's you know, training. I 1216 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:36,240 Speaker 1: think I told you this, uh over dinner, But one 1217 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,480 Speaker 1: time went down. I was the guest of Special Forces 1218 00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,160 Speaker 1: Group in Fort Bragg, and I went down into their 1219 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,600 Speaker 1: compound and I was surprised because I went out to 1220 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,240 Speaker 1: watch them train and they were training on something that 1221 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,520 Speaker 1: seems like so specific. They were spending the day training 1222 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:58,200 Speaker 1: on how to transition from your rifle to your pistol. 1223 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Right basically, they're training how to drop that and pull 1224 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,080 Speaker 1: your pistol out so and shoot a target with it. 1225 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,160 Speaker 1: And it's it seems small, but you've got to think 1226 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,000 Speaker 1: about the situation that you're looking at. Okay, you you 1227 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bust into a building and all of a sudden there's 1228 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,520 Speaker 1: guys popping out with guns and you pull the trigger 1229 01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,440 Speaker 1: and you hear the loudest sound in the world click, right, 1230 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,200 Speaker 1: and then what now. It's like, well, you can try 1231 01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,000 Speaker 1: and clear your rifle and get around in it, or 1232 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, misfire. You don't necessarily know what's wrong. You 1233 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,960 Speaker 1: have some sort of malfunction. Well, we train, and it's 1234 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,480 Speaker 1: kind of been a transition in the military away from 1235 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,400 Speaker 1: we'll get your rifle up. Pistols are just there so 1236 01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,280 Speaker 1: you can look good, I guess, to where it's like, 1237 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,760 Speaker 1: no pistol can be an effective tool. So that's where 1238 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,480 Speaker 1: you see those transitions. It's like, and I know a 1239 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,800 Speaker 1: guy that I did some work with that had a 1240 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,200 Speaker 1: situation where this happened, and it's the same thing as 1241 01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,760 Speaker 1: like click. He tried to clear it, click, and all 1242 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the guys turned around with a gun. 1243 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,520 Speaker 1: It's like, what do you do now. It's like, well, 1244 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,520 Speaker 1: I've got a secondary weapon, because it's always primary secondary, 1245 01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 1: that's how they train in the military. He's like, well, 1246 01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,840 Speaker 1: here comes the pistol and basically saved his life. So 1247 01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,040 Speaker 1: that's why if you shoot it, it doesn't go and 1248 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:04,400 Speaker 1: you've got a threat in front of you. It's like 1249 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,680 Speaker 1: you have to get to your secondary as quickly as possible. 1250 01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:08,200 Speaker 1: And if it takes you three seconds to do that, 1251 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,880 Speaker 1: which isn't a lot of time, but it's a whole 1252 01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,720 Speaker 1: lot different than second half. That's why that's such an 1253 01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:15,960 Speaker 1: important thing. And you know, you start from the ground up. 1254 01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,760 Speaker 1: That's where every little you train, every aspect. You start 1255 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,800 Speaker 1: with just a gunlow, bring a gun up and shoot, 1256 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,000 Speaker 1: and then you bring a gun up and shoot left 1257 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:24,800 Speaker 1: and right, you know, transition targets, and then you bring 1258 01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,320 Speaker 1: up and shoot close near, and then you do a reload, 1259 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:28,720 Speaker 1: and then you just kind of work your way through 1260 01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,960 Speaker 1: every aspect and then that gives those guys ability to train, 1261 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:33,440 Speaker 1: and you can do it without even shooting. You know, 1262 01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,080 Speaker 1: you can transition, you can do all that stuff, practice 1263 01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,160 Speaker 1: movements and it's it's crazy how quick you can shoot 1264 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,920 Speaker 1: transitions and how fast you can move between gear and 1265 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,440 Speaker 1: how fast you do a reload. Where do you put 1266 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,560 Speaker 1: your your kit at all? And like you said, it's 1267 01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,400 Speaker 1: like we'll spend a whole day doing this. It's like, well, 1268 01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,560 Speaker 1: the level of details fast and thing. I recently heard 1269 01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,920 Speaker 1: an interview with an FBI agent. He was saying the 1270 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,800 Speaker 1: FBI Academy, they teach you how to unbuckle your seat belt. 1271 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,280 Speaker 1: They did like you to take your left hand and 1272 01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:04,520 Speaker 1: put it between your body and the belt, slide down 1273 01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,720 Speaker 1: to the buckle, reach your finger around and unclipped the 1274 01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,800 Speaker 1: buckle and move it so that it diminishes the chances 1275 01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,520 Speaker 1: that if you need to get out of your car quickly, 1276 01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,400 Speaker 1: that you become entangled in your seat seatbelt. And like 1277 01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,280 Speaker 1: to think about that, someone's looking at like that level 1278 01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:25,880 Speaker 1: of that that level of specificity, and you're saying, once 1279 01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,240 Speaker 1: you learn it, you never unbuckle your belt another way. 1280 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,480 Speaker 1: It just becomes like how you're doing being in grizzly 1281 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 1: country though, Like if you're thinking about having bear spray 1282 01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:37,440 Speaker 1: and a pistol, and then no one ever talks about it, 1283 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,400 Speaker 1: never practice you have to, like you should have that 1284 01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,360 Speaker 1: transition down and where how you get your pistol, how 1285 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,160 Speaker 1: you get your bear spray, and have practiced that even 1286 01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,880 Speaker 1: think you don't practice it. So then we we talked 1287 01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:49,320 Speaker 1: about doing a thing where now and then when you're 1288 01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,840 Speaker 1: out in grizzly country, but now and then someone should 1289 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,720 Speaker 1: just clap their hands with those stop watch and be 1290 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,760 Speaker 1: like how long does it take everyone to like dig 1291 01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:04,919 Speaker 1: through their pack by their prepper spray die. It's like, quick, 1292 01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,320 Speaker 1: where did I put that stuff? You know? Yeah, man, 1293 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,240 Speaker 1: it's the same kind of danger. You know, I don't 1294 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:11,720 Speaker 1: want to get eaten by a barrel or shot by 1295 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,040 Speaker 1: a dude. You know your chances if you spend a 1296 01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:15,920 Speaker 1: lot of time in the wilderness, you know your chances 1297 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,160 Speaker 1: are higher, meaning by a bear in a lot of cases, 1298 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,840 Speaker 1: and getting shot in Montana. I mean, just reality. What like, 1299 01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,960 Speaker 1: what makes what makes a good shooter? Is it? Is it? 1300 01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,040 Speaker 1: I know you can't divide them out, but what makes 1301 01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,800 Speaker 1: the actor a great shooter? Is it is? It's psychological? 1302 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:37,440 Speaker 1: Is it physical? Definitely? Psychological? More psychological. We'd say shooting 1303 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,240 Speaker 1: is physical nine percent metal. What is the metal? So 1304 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,640 Speaker 1: this is where it gets crazy, right, depends on what 1305 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:45,920 Speaker 1: you're doing. So if it's a dynamic thing, then it's 1306 01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:50,720 Speaker 1: about training muscle memory, training movements. So it's like building 1307 01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,920 Speaker 1: up your your kind of processes, your thoughtless processes. On 1308 01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,680 Speaker 1: the more intentional side of it, So like the stuff 1309 01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,080 Speaker 1: that I shot is very slow, methodical, all process based. 1310 01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,600 Speaker 1: So what you're trying to do is you're trying to 1311 01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:06,880 Speaker 1: get a mental process that is repeatable, and then you 1312 01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:08,560 Speaker 1: are a plan and then you stick to that and 1313 01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,720 Speaker 1: that's what you're doing the whole time. So you work 1314 01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,200 Speaker 1: on the physical you know, the holding the gun, that 1315 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:13,680 Speaker 1: triggering and all that, but then the rest of it 1316 01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,680 Speaker 1: becomes mental. So we would read a lot of you know, 1317 01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,480 Speaker 1: golf books, tennis books, things like that, because it's the 1318 01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:20,640 Speaker 1: same idea. It's like when you have your golf swing down. 1319 01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:22,440 Speaker 1: You know, anybody at the top fifty guys in the 1320 01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,040 Speaker 1: PGA can alsowing in golf club, It's like, what's the difference. 1321 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,600 Speaker 1: It's like, well, where they put themselves mentally, the decisions 1322 01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:31,160 Speaker 1: they make, you know, making good shots, following their process 1323 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,600 Speaker 1: exactly the same way every time, and that's where it's 1324 01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's like a lot of things, 1325 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,680 Speaker 1: I guess, it's process oriented versus outcome oriented. So you're 1326 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,920 Speaker 1: trying to keep yourself from thinking about what's the implications 1327 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:43,400 Speaker 1: of if I do this or that. It's like, no, 1328 01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna do my process and 1329 01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,800 Speaker 1: whenever happens happens, I've trained the process and I'll stick 1330 01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,000 Speaker 1: to it. And that you're not obsessing over the outcome. 1331 01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,120 Speaker 1: You can't if as soon as you think outcome, you're done. 1332 01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,120 Speaker 1: That's what I think. Like, that's the thing I found 1333 01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:58,800 Speaker 1: that over the years, I've become I hesitate to use 1334 01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:00,920 Speaker 1: the word, I'm not gonna say very good. Over the years, 1335 01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:08,280 Speaker 1: I've become good, um like good as a rifle hunter. Okay, 1336 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,439 Speaker 1: not like I don't take insane shots, but I don't 1337 01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:12,760 Speaker 1: have a lot of I don't I don't make a 1338 01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,520 Speaker 1: lot of mistakes because you just like do this, this, this, this, this, 1339 01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:20,240 Speaker 1: and it just happens. But archery, But the minute, the 1340 01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:25,120 Speaker 1: minute something's approaching, all I'm thinking about. I'm I'm in 1341 01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,480 Speaker 1: what you say, outcome all I'm thinking about his outcome. 1342 01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to miss it. I don't 1343 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,520 Speaker 1: want to wound it. It's like it's all I'm thinking 1344 01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,360 Speaker 1: about with my rifle. I'm not like I sure hope, 1345 01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,440 Speaker 1: I I sure hope I don't wound it. I'm like, 1346 01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,680 Speaker 1: very fun. Yeah, I'm very focused with like, I'm very 1347 01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,160 Speaker 1: like I know that I'm gonna do what I do 1348 01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:48,000 Speaker 1: and I know that I will I will be successful, 1349 01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:50,040 Speaker 1: Like I just know that that will happen. So I've 1350 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,120 Speaker 1: developed that confidence with archery I can't overcome. It's a 1351 01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:57,040 Speaker 1: major problem with archery. I can't overcome jumping to the 1352 01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,840 Speaker 1: unknown the outcome. It's funny put it that way, because 1353 01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,080 Speaker 1: it's just but it's in your head, man, it's in 1354 01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,400 Speaker 1: your head. I've got a mental image. This is from 1355 01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,480 Speaker 1: like five years ago, still like crisp as Day, and 1356 01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,480 Speaker 1: it's this. It's me letting an arrow go in a bull. 1357 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,480 Speaker 1: It was about thirty five yards away and watching the 1358 01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,400 Speaker 1: arrow go to to do four ininges over his back 1359 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,120 Speaker 1: and like I, I shoot a bed of archery a 1360 01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:23,960 Speaker 1: little bit, you know, for a while, and so I can. 1361 01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,520 Speaker 1: I can shoot a boat pretty decent. And thirty five 1362 01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,240 Speaker 1: yards is not a long shot, and it's wide open, 1363 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,160 Speaker 1: nothing between us, you know, grass, and he's standing there 1364 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,760 Speaker 1: and I'm looking, and then you have this mental play 1365 01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:36,200 Speaker 1: back and I'm thinking because I was kind of in 1366 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:37,600 Speaker 1: some low grass and I was trying to stay real, 1367 01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,440 Speaker 1: real low. And then I remember and it's like, okay, 1368 01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,480 Speaker 1: so your your mind goes through into this whole you know, 1369 01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:46,400 Speaker 1: this whole memory and about you know, a millisecond, and 1370 01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:47,960 Speaker 1: it's like you have all these pictures that you can 1371 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,200 Speaker 1: kind of play back, and I'm thinking you know, when 1372 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,640 Speaker 1: I looked at that pin, there was a triangle that 1373 01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,600 Speaker 1: I was looking at that pin through. It was not 1374 01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,280 Speaker 1: a circle. That was my peep side. And I know 1375 01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,720 Speaker 1: I came back and I was oh, and I looked 1376 01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,240 Speaker 1: right over the top of my peep site through the 1377 01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:08,080 Speaker 1: little you know, you're accommodation. And I came through and 1378 01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,200 Speaker 1: I was like, this is perfect. I was like, and 1379 01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,800 Speaker 1: the arrow goes fours and three four in right over 1380 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,200 Speaker 1: his back like dead nuts, straight up right up the 1381 01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,680 Speaker 1: back of the leg, right over only in hindsight, and 1382 01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, I totally looked over my peep site and 1383 01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:22,840 Speaker 1: it's like something that I think I've ever done that. 1384 01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:25,480 Speaker 1: Like you said, man, you get in that situation and 1385 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,400 Speaker 1: it's like the blood starts pumping in a big bowl 1386 01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,600 Speaker 1: and you're like, I've recently going to a back tenson 1387 01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:33,200 Speaker 1: or at least because I was getting jumpy. And once 1388 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:34,560 Speaker 1: you go to the back tension release, if you're not 1389 01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,880 Speaker 1: the form isn't right and you're not pulling the right way, 1390 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,760 Speaker 1: it's not going off. I keep surprised people talk about this, 1391 01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:45,480 Speaker 1: but it's like trend. It fixes a lot. Just it's 1392 01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,320 Speaker 1: a trend. People have been talking about for a long 1393 01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,080 Speaker 1: Have you doing this because my brother like switched. It's 1394 01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,680 Speaker 1: it's really like what I would when I was practicing 1395 01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,320 Speaker 1: with the trigger. You know, one out of six shots, 1396 01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,640 Speaker 1: I'd get tired. I'd be jumping the trigger when you're 1397 01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,240 Speaker 1: practicing what I would do on the teachings of John Dudley, 1398 01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,120 Speaker 1: like I would put I'm focused on my back elbow, 1399 01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,560 Speaker 1: feeling that deltoid muscle pull in the right way right, 1400 01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,360 Speaker 1: focus on that muscle, focus on my follow through, and 1401 01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,880 Speaker 1: you almost you stop thinking about your front, your site. 1402 01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:18,080 Speaker 1: You're thinking about it, and my following through the proper 1403 01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,760 Speaker 1: process is my process going. We used to I used 1404 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:22,760 Speaker 1: to put um and I still do this. Put a 1405 01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,680 Speaker 1: speaker behind me, directly behind me where I want to 1406 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:32,880 Speaker 1: pull to turn music on. Public speaker, put you suck 1407 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,200 Speaker 1: you suck uh, and put music on and pull to 1408 01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,519 Speaker 1: the music right and and have my elbow go towards 1409 01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,280 Speaker 1: the music and focus on you know how my elbow 1410 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,200 Speaker 1: is traveling towards that sound, and you totally forget what's 1411 01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:44,960 Speaker 1: going on in the front half of your body. And 1412 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:49,200 Speaker 1: I'm more accurate like that than any other way. Yeah, 1413 01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:51,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to I haven't but I'm going to see. 1414 01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,760 Speaker 1: That's the thing is Kenyan was like he Mark Kennyon's 1415 01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,280 Speaker 1: talking about he's gonna finish up the season and then switch, 1416 01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,760 Speaker 1: so he's got plenty of time to switch into. I've 1417 01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,920 Speaker 1: thought about that. I thought about having a thumb release, 1418 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,439 Speaker 1: which is generally the same set up, but you're you 1419 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,760 Speaker 1: have a thumb trigger instead of right, so you you 1420 01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,240 Speaker 1: flip to that and it's kind of the same motion, 1421 01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:14,600 Speaker 1: but you have control, right, so if an elks coming in, 1422 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,519 Speaker 1: you don't have to wait. But I know guys like 1423 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:19,439 Speaker 1: I would say Shane Dory and a bunch of guys 1424 01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,880 Speaker 1: that have bow hunted with recently who took the leap 1425 01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:23,960 Speaker 1: and said I'm just gonna hunt with this thing, and 1426 01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:26,599 Speaker 1: the next thing I know, they're five shots, five dead 1427 01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,160 Speaker 1: animals at all different ranges, all different times. So I mean, 1428 01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:31,800 Speaker 1: you just adapt to it as being the most sound 1429 01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,720 Speaker 1: way to have a process in the woods. I've been 1430 01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:36,320 Speaker 1: thinking about. It forces you to do it right. It 1431 01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,000 Speaker 1: forces you to do it right. I just hate like 1432 01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,519 Speaker 1: new learning new stuff, man, because you know, I mean, 1433 01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:42,479 Speaker 1: like after so many years of doing something some way, 1434 01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,960 Speaker 1: I would rather it's just easy, not easier it's you 1435 01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:47,760 Speaker 1: just almost want to double down on what you know 1436 01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,720 Speaker 1: rather than really changing. Like if someone said, like, there's 1437 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:53,160 Speaker 1: a new rifle out and you put a thing in 1438 01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:56,000 Speaker 1: your mouth right and you just bite down to make 1439 01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,080 Speaker 1: it go off, which is probably not a bad idea, Yeah, maybe, 1440 01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:03,880 Speaker 1: but I would be hesitant. I was very hesitant when 1441 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,760 Speaker 1: I met with John. I'm like, that's a good idea. Yeah, 1442 01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:09,639 Speaker 1: somebody right that there just like pinch between your eye 1443 01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,240 Speaker 1: teeth released. I know. I know a guy who got 1444 01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:19,720 Speaker 1: in an accident last year man some like trash compactor 1445 01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,040 Speaker 1: thing and he got like squished in it, messed up 1446 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,000 Speaker 1: his back, shoulders and no, no on the job dude. 1447 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,679 Speaker 1: But he's really he's really, he's really, he's really serious 1448 01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:31,519 Speaker 1: figous hunter imagine something. You know some of you know him. 1449 01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,679 Speaker 1: But he hunted last year with a with a bow 1450 01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,640 Speaker 1: with a mouth release because he couldn't draw no, no, 1451 01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,080 Speaker 1: like t it was a tab that he was biting 1452 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,680 Speaker 1: and drawing his bow. Yeah. I grew up with a 1453 01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:44,559 Speaker 1: guy like that. He'd lost his arm in an accident 1454 01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,720 Speaker 1: and shot by holding the mouthpiece. I think he might 1455 01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,280 Speaker 1: have killed a bull doing that this year, but I 1456 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,840 Speaker 1: don't remember exactly. I think he did. He are you 1457 01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,080 Speaker 1: talking about Josh? Why? Why are you guys being all 1458 01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,000 Speaker 1: secret at No? I just just because I couldn't couldn't 1459 01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,640 Speaker 1: bring it to mind right away. Yeah. Yeah, And you 1460 01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,479 Speaker 1: like how much name dropping do you want to do 1461 01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,160 Speaker 1: on the Meat Eater podcast? You want to bring too 1462 01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:09,840 Speaker 1: much the right amount to not be confusing to people, right, 1463 01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,920 Speaker 1: that's my that's my barometer. I feel like you're feeling 1464 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,840 Speaker 1: a little high and mighty in your fancy sweater today. Dude, 1465 01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:18,840 Speaker 1: I'm never Are we gonna talk about it? Are we 1466 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,880 Speaker 1: gonna talk about it? Well, let's talk about it. Listen, man, 1467 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,800 Speaker 1: there's either I either make my wife happy or I 1468 01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:25,639 Speaker 1: make you guys happy. And guess if I'm more interested 1469 01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:31,360 Speaker 1: in making happy, Yes, man's gotta man's gotta make my 1470 01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,519 Speaker 1: An's gotta make my wife. Commented on how handsome I 1471 01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:36,760 Speaker 1: looked in the sweater she bought me. Yeah, she bought 1472 01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:41,120 Speaker 1: you the sweater that she knew she bought it for you. 1473 01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,920 Speaker 1: See if he wears it again, sweaters just so we 1474 01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,360 Speaker 1: can have an interaction, it'll bring us closer. Uh. Nice 1475 01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,400 Speaker 1: sweater pivoting away from my sweater? That was quick. Psychological 1476 01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,599 Speaker 1: what okay, you hunt, this is this is good. You'll 1477 01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:57,680 Speaker 1: be able to hand to this. How much does what 1478 01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:04,519 Speaker 1: you learned from competitive shooting where it's just replicating controlled atmosphere, right, 1479 01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:11,439 Speaker 1: is hunting just totally different? Yes, yes, and no, there's crossover. 1480 01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:15,120 Speaker 1: It's uh, it goes back to the process. You gotta 1481 01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:16,800 Speaker 1: put yourself like you know I said, and you miss 1482 01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:18,160 Speaker 1: a bowl and it's like, how did I do that? 1483 01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:19,720 Speaker 1: It's like, well, you get amped up and you don't 1484 01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,680 Speaker 1: follow through your process that it's kind of the same thing. 1485 01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,080 Speaker 1: You know, it even combats the same thing. Guys that 1486 01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,479 Speaker 1: go over and they say, well, you guys are good shooters, 1487 01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,479 Speaker 1: but you got a combat it's gonna be totally different. 1488 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,360 Speaker 1: It's like we used to say, you know, you will 1489 01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,200 Speaker 1: perform at your lowest level of training, So your worst day, 1490 01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:37,720 Speaker 1: that's how you can expect to shoot. Now, you might 1491 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,880 Speaker 1: do better, but you're always going to revert back to 1492 01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,479 Speaker 1: your lowest level of training. Everybody wants to, you know, 1493 01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:45,320 Speaker 1: peek before and you're gonna rise to the occasion. It's 1494 01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,640 Speaker 1: like that doesn't happen very often. You you'll revert back 1495 01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:49,439 Speaker 1: to your lowest level of training. So that day when 1496 01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:51,439 Speaker 1: you feel like crap and you're pulling crappy shots, and 1497 01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:53,559 Speaker 1: that's how you're gonna shoot. When you get a big 1498 01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:55,800 Speaker 1: bullet front of you, you might shoot better, but that's 1499 01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,000 Speaker 1: what you can count on, you know, your lowest level 1500 01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:01,760 Speaker 1: of training. So it does your surious day. Yeah, that's 1501 01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:05,040 Speaker 1: the range. Yeah, work on eliminating those. That's that's the 1502 01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:07,240 Speaker 1: whole point. You know, Like talking about back tension releases, 1503 01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:09,759 Speaker 1: it's like, well, maybe it doesn't give you as much control, 1504 01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,400 Speaker 1: but if it's more consistent, like it eliminates those like 1505 01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,840 Speaker 1: jerk shots that go off in the neverland, It's like, well, 1506 01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:17,720 Speaker 1: then that eliminates that shot that that might be the 1507 01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:18,840 Speaker 1: shot you pull on a bowl and all of a 1508 01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:20,679 Speaker 1: sudden you shoot him back in the pond oring high 1509 01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,280 Speaker 1: liver or something. You know. The game you play with yourself, 1510 01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,920 Speaker 1: right is your You go, you're out hunting and you 1511 01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,519 Speaker 1: throw out a target and you make a nice shot. 1512 01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,840 Speaker 1: The tendency is to be like, okay shooting, because you 1513 01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:36,720 Speaker 1: want to end on that. You want to end on 1514 01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,840 Speaker 1: that feeling of that you got it dialed. If you 1515 01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,040 Speaker 1: shoot like a really bad one, want to shoot one more? 1516 01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,280 Speaker 1: Just I gotta I can't let that sit well, and 1517 01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:45,720 Speaker 1: that goes back, you know, to you guys are talking 1518 01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,280 Speaker 1: about long bogs. You know. I had it with traditional 1519 01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:48,880 Speaker 1: for a long time, and it's like that thing that's 1520 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,080 Speaker 1: really where you gotta get your mind right because there's 1521 01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:52,920 Speaker 1: no pin to rely on. There's no like, oh, I'll 1522 01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:54,160 Speaker 1: just pull back with the pin in right place and 1523 01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,280 Speaker 1: squeeze the trigger. It's like, no, it's all process. I mean, 1524 01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:58,920 Speaker 1: you don't have anything to rely on. You're like, well, 1525 01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,360 Speaker 1: I've been doing this for a long time when I 1526 01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,120 Speaker 1: shoot a lot, so I'm just gonna come back, follow 1527 01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,479 Speaker 1: through your touch and that arrow. Hopefully it's gonna go 1528 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,360 Speaker 1: we're supposed to and try and get you know, five 1529 01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:09,240 Speaker 1: yards away. That helps, but it's it's kind of that 1530 01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,720 Speaker 1: same thing. I think it does transfer a lot for 1531 01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:14,160 Speaker 1: the mental aspect, but I think a lot of it's 1532 01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:15,920 Speaker 1: just a process. What's my process? I get in there 1533 01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,160 Speaker 1: and you're thinking about the right thing and think about 1534 01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:19,640 Speaker 1: the first thing. You know a lot of guys like 1535 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,000 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how to to break this down. 1536 01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:23,920 Speaker 1: It's like, well, if you get to step one, what 1537 01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,479 Speaker 1: step one? So say a bowl comes in, It's like 1538 01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,439 Speaker 1: step one is to say, like remind myself, you know, 1539 01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:32,839 Speaker 1: I'm gonna squeeze through the shot or I'm gonna back tension, 1540 01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, whatever works for you. Site make sure I'm 1541 01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,160 Speaker 1: picking the rights pin or focus on the pin, you know, 1542 01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,000 Speaker 1: let the elk be a little bit blurry or whatever 1543 01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:41,800 Speaker 1: it is. That's your first step in that process. And 1544 01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,960 Speaker 1: then say, I'm gonna do that first thing. I've got 1545 01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,360 Speaker 1: five steps or three steps, and I'm gonna do the 1546 01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,720 Speaker 1: first one. And if you do that, it's like your 1547 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:51,960 Speaker 1: your process then takes over. It's when you get there 1548 01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,599 Speaker 1: and I don't know, I'm just gonna pick a random 1549 01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:55,960 Speaker 1: step and roll with it. Well, then your brain freaks out. 1550 01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,200 Speaker 1: That's that's step one, and then the rest of them 1551 01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:00,479 Speaker 1: will just go like you gotta you gotta it yourself 1552 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:02,680 Speaker 1: into that, start your process and then it just is 1553 01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,000 Speaker 1: automatic or most of the time. You just said two 1554 01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,160 Speaker 1: things that resonate with me. I want to back up 1555 01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:08,680 Speaker 1: on one because I think it's such a it's a 1556 01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,360 Speaker 1: really interesting point I hadn't thought of. Is um practicing 1557 01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:17,559 Speaker 1: to eliminate your worst which is like when you're shooting, 1558 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,160 Speaker 1: if you you know, if you're if you're out shooting, 1559 01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:22,200 Speaker 1: in your yard with your bowl and yeah, one in 1560 01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:25,479 Speaker 1: every six arrows is just like what the hell? Yeah right, 1561 01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:27,599 Speaker 1: how did that go? Yeah, and you write it off. 1562 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,840 Speaker 1: It's like something. But it's like consistently if you throw 1563 01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:31,559 Speaker 1: a bad arrow, Yeah, if you could find a way 1564 01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:34,320 Speaker 1: to like think about that rather than trying you know, 1565 01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:36,320 Speaker 1: and of course you're trying to replicate your good shots 1566 01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:39,920 Speaker 1: to make more of them, but to isolate like the freaks. Well, 1567 01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:42,000 Speaker 1: it's because I have enough freaks for if you just 1568 01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:44,559 Speaker 1: imagine rolling the dice, Like if every time, if you're 1569 01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:46,160 Speaker 1: in a tree stand, every time a deer comes by 1570 01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:48,559 Speaker 1: and you've got one in six arrows is just crazy. 1571 01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:50,200 Speaker 1: You can never figure out why one in six arrows 1572 01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:51,559 Speaker 1: is crazy. It's gonna be in the back of your mind. 1573 01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:53,600 Speaker 1: You're like, well, is this gonna be the one? The 1574 01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:56,160 Speaker 1: bad one? Well, you don't like to train stuff you're 1575 01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:57,840 Speaker 1: not good at either. It's like I like to make this. 1576 01:15:57,920 --> 01:15:59,200 Speaker 1: You know, this is what I'm good at. I'm gonna 1577 01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:00,479 Speaker 1: go do that, so I feel good about it. But 1578 01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,080 Speaker 1: it's like the work involved is finding the areas where 1579 01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,639 Speaker 1: you're deficient or weak, saying, well, what causes that one 1580 01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,920 Speaker 1: six shot? Well, it's this, well, then train that, get 1581 01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:10,920 Speaker 1: better at that, and then it brings your whole system up. 1582 01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:13,760 Speaker 1: It's not as much fun. But you know, like blank 1583 01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:15,559 Speaker 1: bail shooting, you're blind shooting. A lot of the guys 1584 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,000 Speaker 1: will stand there and just work on forum. You know, 1585 01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,600 Speaker 1: I do a lot, especially traditional. You just get a 1586 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:21,920 Speaker 1: big blank bail and close your eyes and just what's 1587 01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:23,840 Speaker 1: it feel like? All right, that's the system, and then 1588 01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:25,880 Speaker 1: that's what you do. But it's not fun. It's not 1589 01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:27,840 Speaker 1: nearly as much fun as watching arrows flying to the target. 1590 01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,840 Speaker 1: I've I've tried. I've talked about this before, but my 1591 01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,840 Speaker 1: dad's somehow got his hands on these stickers. And when 1592 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:37,280 Speaker 1: your kids that said, um, stay calm, pick a spot 1593 01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,599 Speaker 1: and you put them on the inside of the limb, yep, 1594 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:42,920 Speaker 1: your bow. But then you start relying on this idea 1595 01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:46,120 Speaker 1: that you're gonna remember to read that damn sticker. But 1596 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,080 Speaker 1: when I'm out, I don't. I don't do this with 1597 01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:50,160 Speaker 1: rifle hunting at all. But if I'm out bowl hunting, 1598 01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:52,600 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time trying to be like 1599 01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:55,280 Speaker 1: when when the when a moment when you send some 1600 01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:58,800 Speaker 1: moments gonna happen to start going into this thing, like 1601 01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:03,400 Speaker 1: like you said to bring find yourself process. Yeah. But 1602 01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,800 Speaker 1: but and you could even be in a situation where 1603 01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:09,840 Speaker 1: you see something coming and you and you remember. You're like, 1604 01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,120 Speaker 1: you congratulate yourself for remembering be like the process process 1605 01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:15,479 Speaker 1: and just pick some part so you're aware that there 1606 01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:18,160 Speaker 1: is a process. But then all of a sudden, like 1607 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:22,400 Speaker 1: you can't tell I remember hunting, hunting. Uh, so you 1608 01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:24,560 Speaker 1: can hear in Maryland this year, I had all the 1609 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,639 Speaker 1: time in the world, so I called this. I called 1610 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:28,519 Speaker 1: to a stag and he's starting to come and I'm like, wow, 1611 01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:32,200 Speaker 1: he's coming, and I'm like, hey, process, process, process, process, process. 1612 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember all the things I'm gonna do. 1613 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:38,800 Speaker 1: And then he comes through this area where it's a 1614 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,400 Speaker 1: lot of obstructions. So he passed through this little thicket 1615 01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:43,639 Speaker 1: and I'm like, he's gonna come all the way through 1616 01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,680 Speaker 1: and I'll never get a shot. But then all of 1617 01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,439 Speaker 1: a sudden, he stops in the weirdest little gap and 1618 01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:50,360 Speaker 1: instead of this whole thing that I've been telling myself 1619 01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,679 Speaker 1: about how I'm gonna do this whole walk through dimnity 1620 01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:57,599 Speaker 1: stops like right so like right up until the second 1621 01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,479 Speaker 1: and then even though I remembered, like I is happy 1622 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,840 Speaker 1: to remember process, but then you get this gap and 1623 01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:07,240 Speaker 1: you're like, well, screw the process. Yeah, I think it's 1624 01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:08,920 Speaker 1: a good I gotta shoot this arrow. Yeah, it's like 1625 01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,120 Speaker 1: a good hunter. Who could who would be like I'm 1626 01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:14,960 Speaker 1: not gonna have an opportunity. There's an opportunity. I'm gonna 1627 01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,960 Speaker 1: stick to my plan and if it doesn't work or 1628 01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:21,640 Speaker 1: he steps away, then then too bad. And it's not 1629 01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:23,200 Speaker 1: like I'm now going to throw the whole thing out 1630 01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:24,760 Speaker 1: of the window and then show shoot over its back? 1631 01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,200 Speaker 1: Which which is? Which is? That's like Kyle hunting for me. 1632 01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:28,800 Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of Kyle hunting in the winter. 1633 01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:31,080 Speaker 1: Man Kyle comes running in and it's like I forget, 1634 01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:33,439 Speaker 1: I mean you forget shoots like hundred yards stand at 1635 01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:34,800 Speaker 1: me and he's like they stop and you know they're 1636 01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:36,800 Speaker 1: about to rush like boom and you miss him. Like 1637 01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,880 Speaker 1: I'm shooting a sitting shot with back support and I 1638 01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:43,360 Speaker 1: missed a coyote straight up at eight inch target at 1639 01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,680 Speaker 1: a hundred yards. It's like it'll humble anybody. But it's 1640 01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:48,479 Speaker 1: like same thing. It's like I got this plan. He's 1641 01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:49,880 Speaker 1: gonna come over here and pop out, and all of 1642 01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:51,360 Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like there he's about ready to leave, 1643 01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:54,760 Speaker 1: and you're like, crap, shoot that shot takes off running. 1644 01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:56,200 Speaker 1: You're like, why didn't I do that? I could have 1645 01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:58,559 Speaker 1: taken a half a second actually squeeze line up, keep 1646 01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,840 Speaker 1: it steady, boom and dropping. But you're like, I gotta 1647 01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,240 Speaker 1: shoot now. What do you think is the biggest mistake? 1648 01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:08,000 Speaker 1: What what's the biggest mistake that UH hunters make when shooting? 1649 01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,960 Speaker 1: You can do it archery and and or archery and 1650 01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:14,840 Speaker 1: or rifle rushing the shot, I'd say, you know, I 1651 01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:17,320 Speaker 1: do it still. That's that's the main thing, trying to 1652 01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,240 Speaker 1: trying to push that shot. You know, you you break 1653 01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:23,120 Speaker 1: your plan, Like you said, I gotta I gotta shoot 1654 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:24,880 Speaker 1: it now, I gotta I gotta do this, I gotta 1655 01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:26,799 Speaker 1: do that. If you just take that and it seems 1656 01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,439 Speaker 1: like forever in your mind, but if you actually watch 1657 01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,320 Speaker 1: a video of yourself shooting, you're like, I felt like 1658 01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:33,400 Speaker 1: I took an extra five seconds and it was three 1659 01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,920 Speaker 1: quarters of a second. That little bit of time to 1660 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,240 Speaker 1: just okay, this is what I'm doing and then just 1661 01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,000 Speaker 1: do it seem like the deliberate you know, that's I 1662 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,160 Speaker 1: try and tell myself that just be deliberate, be deliberate, 1663 01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,280 Speaker 1: be deliberate, because I know the system. I know the process. 1664 01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:48,040 Speaker 1: I've shot millions of rounds same things, like, be deliberate, 1665 01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:50,920 Speaker 1: make a deliberate shot. It helps me to repeat things 1666 01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:52,880 Speaker 1: like that. It just helps me bring my heart rate 1667 01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:55,080 Speaker 1: and my breathing down a little bit to have that 1668 01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:58,600 Speaker 1: mantra going. I always tell myself slow as smooth and 1669 01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,040 Speaker 1: smooth as fast, yeah, And I just kind of repeat 1670 01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,720 Speaker 1: that and try to not be like, you know, we 1671 01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:04,960 Speaker 1: used to say that all the time. You can't miss 1672 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:09,519 Speaker 1: fast enough, can't miss fast enough. I do that. Also, 1673 01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:11,040 Speaker 1: I have a five for archer. I have a five 1674 01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:16,200 Speaker 1: step process. Right, So it's feet draw, anchor peep pull, right, 1675 01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:18,040 Speaker 1: that's all I do it. And I line my feet 1676 01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:20,400 Speaker 1: up and I do all the time, and that's good. Yeah. 1677 01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:22,599 Speaker 1: So you see a buck coming and you're like, remember 1678 01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,679 Speaker 1: feet drawl, So I draw straight back And I didn't 1679 01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:28,160 Speaker 1: come up with this, John Dudley did. But you all 1680 01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:30,720 Speaker 1: straight back, You find your anchor and then put your 1681 01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,280 Speaker 1: nose down and find your peep and then pull and 1682 01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:36,559 Speaker 1: you're not like you're never like shoot, it's pulled feet. 1683 01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,240 Speaker 1: Do you line your feet properly, you bring your bow up, 1684 01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:42,639 Speaker 1: you draw, you find your anchor, and the feet draw anchor, 1685 01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:47,160 Speaker 1: anchor peep and then pull. And if you could just 1686 01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:49,680 Speaker 1: remember to do that, Man, here's how I did just that. 1687 01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:57,040 Speaker 1: Here's how I generally do it. Feet draw. But yeah, 1688 01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,519 Speaker 1: but I feel like it's if if the process marries 1689 01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:01,560 Speaker 1: up with your ability to act in the moment. Like 1690 01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,000 Speaker 1: I read. I read a little bit on flow state 1691 01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:06,080 Speaker 1: and thought I was real smart, and then I thought 1692 01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,160 Speaker 1: I would flow state my way to killing animals didn't 1693 01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:10,519 Speaker 1: really work. What's flow state me? This is like a 1694 01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:14,519 Speaker 1: state of positivity and action and control, like focusing on 1695 01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,920 Speaker 1: like your mental state and being positive. I thought, oh 1696 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,200 Speaker 1: if I meditated. I never meditated. But the idea that 1697 01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,200 Speaker 1: I could control mentally like this process and make sure 1698 01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:27,320 Speaker 1: nothing could penetrate it like one, two, three, four or 1699 01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:31,599 Speaker 1: five bam, just have never successfully doesn't work. It doesn't work. 1700 01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:33,759 Speaker 1: But that's when when you get to the back tension. 1701 01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:35,960 Speaker 1: Then you start to like control. You would make sure 1702 01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:38,400 Speaker 1: that hey, man, I can I can jump this, but 1703 01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:40,960 Speaker 1: I have to be pulling the right way. It doesn't matter. 1704 01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:43,400 Speaker 1: I can try to jump it but the back tension 1705 01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:47,800 Speaker 1: is is controlling me. My brother talks about lust and greed. 1706 01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:53,760 Speaker 1: Mm hm, the preacher, it's compelling. No, he talks about 1707 01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,360 Speaker 1: lost and green and honey because he's like, he could 1708 01:21:56,360 --> 01:22:00,320 Speaker 1: shoot targets all day long, but he doesn't lust for him. 1709 01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:03,040 Speaker 1: And when you put like a big game animal in 1710 01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,200 Speaker 1: front of him, like he says, it's it disappoints him 1711 01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:13,360 Speaker 1: that he's like the lust and greed wants it. He's like, 1712 01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:17,360 Speaker 1: I want it so bad that it blocks my ability 1713 01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:20,639 Speaker 1: to have it. Yeah, if you could just tell yourself 1714 01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:23,320 Speaker 1: there'll be another shot, there'll be another animal. They'll be like, 1715 01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:25,000 Speaker 1: if you just treat it like that, like it's got 1716 01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:26,519 Speaker 1: to be perfect or I'm not gonna do it. If 1717 01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,920 Speaker 1: you could somehow do that, life will be like maybe 1718 01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:30,560 Speaker 1: when I see something coming through the woods, I'll be like, 1719 01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:37,639 Speaker 1: who gives a ship? Just a big old box? Who 1720 01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,960 Speaker 1: really even wants this stupid thing? Stupid? It's probably gonna 1721 01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,960 Speaker 1: taste it's probably gonna taste terrible. Take a shot, but 1722 01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:47,639 Speaker 1: I don't care. I always think about that pistol course 1723 01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:51,160 Speaker 1: that we took, paid a bunch of money, Um, do 1724 01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:54,599 Speaker 1: this accelerated pistol course, by the end of the day, 1725 01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:57,599 Speaker 1: five out of five of us can hit a target 1726 01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:03,599 Speaker 1: with a pistol at a hundred yards, and I will 1727 01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:07,439 Speaker 1: guarantee you within a year, there wasn't one out of 1728 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:09,720 Speaker 1: five of us that could hit a target with in 1729 01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:14,320 Speaker 1: fifty yards, right, because will you lock in the process 1730 01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:17,439 Speaker 1: and you're like, well, got that, I'll just put this 1731 01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:21,519 Speaker 1: on the shelf over here. Perishable skill. That's the thing 1732 01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:26,960 Speaker 1: about this, But so so is my long bow. Same thing? Yeah, yeah, 1733 01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:30,720 Speaker 1: because it process, process, process, muscle memory. Don't shoot that 1734 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:33,799 Speaker 1: thing for a week. It's like, I'm a danger to myself. 1735 01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:36,280 Speaker 1: That's the weird thing in the archery space where everybody's 1736 01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,240 Speaker 1: gotta have a new bow every year, right, you gotta 1737 01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:40,400 Speaker 1: have the newest, greatest bow you have to. I mean, 1738 01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:42,200 Speaker 1: if you're gonna be any any kind of good, you're like, 1739 01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:45,120 Speaker 1: you're switching bows every year. I appreciate that nothing by 1740 01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:47,800 Speaker 1: two year old, both for a lot cheaper, but there's 1741 01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:52,040 Speaker 1: so many come on your five Yeah, I mean, but 1742 01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:54,040 Speaker 1: that seems to be a better way to go. You 1743 01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,160 Speaker 1: got a bow, you know, and you know the mechanics 1744 01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:59,120 Speaker 1: of it. You understand what it's gonna do. Why switch yeah, 1745 01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:01,719 Speaker 1: I take a pretty seer siously the switch like rifles, 1746 01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,960 Speaker 1: I don't care, I'll bounce. I'm nervous about not not 1747 01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:07,920 Speaker 1: even like I'm not like a great shot, right but 1748 01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:10,360 Speaker 1: far from a great shot. But I still get nervous 1749 01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:12,240 Speaker 1: about switching. But then I'm like, maybe I'll be better. 1750 01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:14,439 Speaker 1: But it's a good thing that that industry has done. 1751 01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:16,720 Speaker 1: Is I think I don't know if it's slowing down now. 1752 01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:19,960 Speaker 1: Maybe honest has perspective on this, but it'd be like 1753 01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,080 Speaker 1: it seemed like for a while, there's so many advances 1754 01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,240 Speaker 1: or they made you think they were advances, and then 1755 01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:27,120 Speaker 1: when you had an older bow, you were like missing 1756 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,519 Speaker 1: out on the party. Yeah, and it's probably like a 1757 01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,599 Speaker 1: marketing creation still that way. I remember there's a particular 1758 01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:35,000 Speaker 1: company that used to have at a t A. They 1759 01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,000 Speaker 1: would have like a dude come in on a motorcycle 1760 01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:39,320 Speaker 1: with the new bow and it would be like fireworks 1761 01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:44,080 Speaker 1: going off and even drive they would like drive a 1762 01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:46,400 Speaker 1: motorcycle into their booth with the new bow and everybody 1763 01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:48,600 Speaker 1: be like and I'm like, what is this thing? Like 1764 01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,320 Speaker 1: is this thing shooting five fbs with a smooth draw? 1765 01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:58,120 Speaker 1: Like yeah, So it's but that they still every company still, 1766 01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, every company were assault in the industry still 1767 01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:04,240 Speaker 1: puts out a new model every year. I got a 1768 01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:09,040 Speaker 1: good question for you. Uh, this can like mental versus mechanics. Right, 1769 01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,640 Speaker 1: many many times I've gone down to the range just 1770 01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,040 Speaker 1: to make sure that my hunting rifle is on. All 1771 01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:17,760 Speaker 1: of my rifles are hunting rifles. So I don't know 1772 01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:21,040 Speaker 1: why I put that in there, but like I start out, 1773 01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:25,280 Speaker 1: get some some flyers, and then I end up adjusting 1774 01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:28,200 Speaker 1: my skill and then by the end of that session 1775 01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:31,120 Speaker 1: at the range and then readjusted it back to the 1776 01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:41,640 Speaker 1: original set. Mechanics or mental, I would say probably mostly mechanical. 1777 01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:44,800 Speaker 1: And the reason being is that depending on your rifle 1778 01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:47,880 Speaker 1: and conditions exact, Like I haven't shot rifle for six months, right, 1779 01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:49,920 Speaker 1: so you you haven't fired bullets for the board, it's 1780 01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:52,640 Speaker 1: not hot. As you go through it warms up, and 1781 01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:54,560 Speaker 1: depending on I mean, every rifle is different. It's like 1782 01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:56,559 Speaker 1: I've gotten to shooting a lot of long range stuff 1783 01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:58,519 Speaker 1: since I got out, just because it's kind of a 1784 01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:00,760 Speaker 1: cool gig and it brings a lot of things together 1785 01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,280 Speaker 1: for me. And uh, you do do wonder right because 1786 01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:06,800 Speaker 1: you're shooting these match rifles and heavy barrels. They weighed 1787 01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:09,040 Speaker 1: fifteen pounds or something, which is a light rifle. Now 1788 01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:10,519 Speaker 1: a lot of these guys are shooting twenty plus pound 1789 01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:12,240 Speaker 1: rifles and a lot of the camps. And so you 1790 01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:13,720 Speaker 1: get out there, you're all right'm gonna check my zero, 1791 01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:15,679 Speaker 1: make sure you go up there, and it's dead nuts. 1792 01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:18,200 Speaker 1: And over time you start to see trends like, well 1793 01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:20,800 Speaker 1: it's colder out, or it's warmer out, or you know whatever, 1794 01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:22,960 Speaker 1: my load changed. Is it a fresh reload or is 1795 01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:24,559 Speaker 1: it a you know, one's been sitting there for two 1796 01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:27,120 Speaker 1: months that change. Ammo? It's a different lot of ammo. 1797 01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:28,960 Speaker 1: You know, well it's the same box. It's like, yeah, 1798 01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,040 Speaker 1: but that was that's a different bullet and a lot 1799 01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:32,720 Speaker 1: of different primer, a lot different case, a lot of 1800 01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:35,880 Speaker 1: different powdered lot. So it's the same box, but it's 1801 01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:39,040 Speaker 1: like everything's changed. That's why I like, you know, reloading 1802 01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:41,680 Speaker 1: at this point, there are way too many variable and 1803 01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,160 Speaker 1: you can just like start like spinning yourself as far 1804 01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:46,960 Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole as you want to go. And 1805 01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:48,280 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it. You know, you get 1806 01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,360 Speaker 1: into a group, you know, how you shoot, your position 1807 01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:52,599 Speaker 1: plays a heart in that. So you shoot some rounds through, 1808 01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:54,280 Speaker 1: it gets formed up, you change your position, you get 1809 01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:56,519 Speaker 1: used to the recoil. You know, you're tight start with 1810 01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:58,519 Speaker 1: and then you relax into it, so that changes things 1811 01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,400 Speaker 1: a little bit. And so yeah, there's there's a lot 1812 01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:04,599 Speaker 1: of variables. I would say it's mostly mechanical and that's 1813 01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:06,519 Speaker 1: the key. You know, people have this idea, you know, 1814 01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,760 Speaker 1: like take snipers for example, like all these guys, they 1815 01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:11,720 Speaker 1: just they're wizards. It's like, well, there's a lot of 1816 01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:14,400 Speaker 1: trends through shooting. It's like where's my cold boar shot go, 1817 01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:16,679 Speaker 1: where's my bullet going? It's this format, where's my bullet 1818 01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,160 Speaker 1: going him at this elevation? So you just track that 1819 01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:20,880 Speaker 1: and then we keep you know, dope charts. You know, 1820 01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:23,120 Speaker 1: you write everything down and after time, same thing with 1821 01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:26,120 Speaker 1: a hunting rifle. Even when I used to shoot, you know, pistol, 1822 01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:27,760 Speaker 1: I would keep a log every day I shot. I 1823 01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:29,400 Speaker 1: would write down what I did, what I worked on, 1824 01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:32,439 Speaker 1: what I noticed. And then over time you can flip 1825 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:33,800 Speaker 1: through that and you're like, oh, you start to see 1826 01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,519 Speaker 1: trends develop. And it's not something a lot of people do, 1827 01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,760 Speaker 1: but just journaling, you know, even you go to the range. Okay, 1828 01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:40,559 Speaker 1: go to the range. Just have a notebook and say 1829 01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,040 Speaker 1: I shot here. My gun was shooting three inches high 1830 01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,559 Speaker 1: and the left. I'm using this box, you know, maybe 1831 01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:47,719 Speaker 1: mark on your box of AMMO or a lot of ammoor. 1832 01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:49,960 Speaker 1: If reload fifty, it's easier because then it's the same. 1833 01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:52,559 Speaker 1: Let's say I reloaded this on this date. So then 1834 01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:53,880 Speaker 1: you go to the range and then you say, well, 1835 01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:56,040 Speaker 1: it always shoots, you know, it always starts out shooting 1836 01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:57,439 Speaker 1: high left, and then it goes down to the lower 1837 01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:58,760 Speaker 1: ride and then it goes back to the middle again. 1838 01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:01,240 Speaker 1: And so then you own if you're got hunting, like, okay, 1839 01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:03,760 Speaker 1: this frown is probably gonna go, you know, two inches 1840 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:05,640 Speaker 1: high and left, even though it was zeroed off the 1841 01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:08,280 Speaker 1: last group. Because that's what it always does. My journal 1842 01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:10,120 Speaker 1: would always be the same, man, be like, shot some 1843 01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:13,439 Speaker 1: pretty sweet shots, hit some couple flyers, ended on a 1844 01:28:13,520 --> 01:28:17,559 Speaker 1: good note. Yeah, my first question would be what defined 1845 01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,840 Speaker 1: what your flyers are? When you say I have a 1846 01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:23,160 Speaker 1: few flyers and so I start messing with my scope. Man, 1847 01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:27,600 Speaker 1: my my brain is strange because I have like a 1848 01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:30,599 Speaker 1: very very select few things where I get like super 1849 01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,760 Speaker 1: anal attendive on one is like building arrows and and 1850 01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:40,160 Speaker 1: even like tuning my arrows to my my bows, um 1851 01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:45,080 Speaker 1: and my my groups. I'm like, well, that doesn't look 1852 01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:46,920 Speaker 1: like a tight group to me. When I have somebody 1853 01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,000 Speaker 1: be like, well, yeah, but you're shooting an in group. 1854 01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:52,920 Speaker 1: How far do you really shoot? You know? So um, 1855 01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,360 Speaker 1: but something that just looks sloppy. You know. It's like, well, 1856 01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:03,800 Speaker 1: I got three within and four inches, uh, two hundred 1857 01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:09,599 Speaker 1: yards and then I got to ten inches for an example. 1858 01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:15,080 Speaker 1: Your group goes from four inches to ten inches. So 1859 01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,840 Speaker 1: you're saying, yeah, just just like some sloppy us. And 1860 01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, nope, I know I did everything right. Everything 1861 01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:24,960 Speaker 1: felt great, and I can't mentally wrap my head around 1862 01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:29,880 Speaker 1: wide how one bullet could stray a minute of elk 1863 01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:34,000 Speaker 1: and walk away. Do the old the old Michigan trick. 1864 01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:35,800 Speaker 1: Put out a pie plate at a hundred yards, Yep, 1865 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:38,519 Speaker 1: hit it, We're good to go. Shot a five inch 1866 01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:43,439 Speaker 1: group and a hundred we're solid. Yeah, yep, those do kill. 1867 01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:47,439 Speaker 1: It's that's something to remember too, because I shoot, you know, 1868 01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:49,680 Speaker 1: you're I want a gun that shoots for shooting a 1869 01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:51,360 Speaker 1: match guns like half inch. A lot of guys get 1870 01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:53,280 Speaker 1: wrapped around and they'll do low development to the nth 1871 01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:54,760 Speaker 1: of green. Like I want a gun that shoots quarter 1872 01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:56,760 Speaker 1: m o a, it's like, well, a gun that will 1873 01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:59,160 Speaker 1: actually shoot true quarter m a A for like five 1874 01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,880 Speaker 1: shot groups is rare. I mean you're getting into benchres world. 1875 01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:04,080 Speaker 1: Think I got guns that I've done out and shot 1876 01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,200 Speaker 1: and they'll shoot seven eights pretty consistent. And as long 1877 01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:10,160 Speaker 1: as you're not shooting targets outside of that, I mean, 1878 01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:11,720 Speaker 1: think how they get target you're shooting. It's like I 1879 01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:14,280 Speaker 1: can shoot two Emily targets all day long. It's all 1880 01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:17,360 Speaker 1: about your wind calls and everything else. So I don't 1881 01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,360 Speaker 1: get too wrapped around that anymore. As long as it's 1882 01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:21,640 Speaker 1: a consistent load and it's you know, keeping to that 1883 01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,320 Speaker 1: same thing, it's like, well it's well under an inch 1884 01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:26,680 Speaker 1: half inch is great, but in for hunt rifle, it's 1885 01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:29,200 Speaker 1: like a shooting an inch, Like that's pretty solid. But 1886 01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:35,240 Speaker 1: that's good. Chuck Christopher, it's a big competitive bench ResQue 1887 01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,320 Speaker 1: guy out of Idaho. I don't um I'd go down. 1888 01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:42,880 Speaker 1: He's got a facility built at his house, basically like 1889 01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:47,720 Speaker 1: a bunker on the hillside. I think you should have yeah, 1890 01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:53,040 Speaker 1: flat tire ranch um fitting and I used to go 1891 01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:54,840 Speaker 1: up there to try to like site my rifles in 1892 01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:59,760 Speaker 1: with him, and it was just the most it's it's 1893 01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:03,080 Speaker 1: a add experience. You share the eggs at yards and 1894 01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:05,439 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and he is so dialed and he's 1895 01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:09,519 Speaker 1: so he's got his process down and his process and 1896 01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:13,479 Speaker 1: like the hunting equivalency like they just do not meet, 1897 01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,679 Speaker 1: like like it's not real world. It's almost a different sport. 1898 01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:21,599 Speaker 1: When you're talking about some of that bench rest complete, 1899 01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:25,200 Speaker 1: it's amazing those guys are shooting four or five inch 1900 01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:28,400 Speaker 1: groups at a thousand though consistently like their eggs or 1901 01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, they'll shoot like three matches and they're shooting 1902 01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:34,160 Speaker 1: five inch groups four inch groups with a little six 1903 01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:36,679 Speaker 1: mil or something coldly cow. You know. It's funny about 1904 01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:38,640 Speaker 1: when you talk about the consistency and the consistency of 1905 01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:41,080 Speaker 1: the equipment is the way that there's this idea that 1906 01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:44,559 Speaker 1: back in Boon's era that these guys are like these 1907 01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:48,240 Speaker 1: expert marksmen, you know that they like shoot and split 1908 01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:50,760 Speaker 1: lead on hatchets and stuff like that. It's like when 1909 01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:56,200 Speaker 1: you think about that they were hand pouring bullets, sometimes 1910 01:31:56,400 --> 01:32:01,240 Speaker 1: making their own gunpowder and then having shooting rifles that 1911 01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:06,880 Speaker 1: were that were rifled by hand. You're like, and then 1912 01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,000 Speaker 1: people like they have this sing like this right old 1913 01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:11,160 Speaker 1: tick liquor. You know, it could shoot the tick off 1914 01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:14,720 Speaker 1: a possum, or can split bullets on hatchet heads of twos. 1915 01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:16,880 Speaker 1: It's like, it would be so nice to be able 1916 01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:19,840 Speaker 1: to go back in time to see Daniel Boone and 1917 01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:22,320 Speaker 1: his compatriots. I remember, like if you read of that 1918 01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:25,880 Speaker 1: that account, there are accounts that people would complain about 1919 01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:29,560 Speaker 1: um people out in the settlements, how they would just 1920 01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:31,640 Speaker 1: shoot all day long, how lazy they were because if 1921 01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:33,439 Speaker 1: they weren't out hunting, they would just shoot. But to 1922 01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:35,320 Speaker 1: go back and like what kind of groups with those 1923 01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:38,280 Speaker 1: guys actually throwing it would have been interesting because the 1924 01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:42,800 Speaker 1: mythology is this like real you know, these like super 1925 01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,040 Speaker 1: accurate heart shot every time. But when you think about 1926 01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:49,320 Speaker 1: the inconsistencies of all the equipment, it must have been 1927 01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:52,639 Speaker 1: some sloppy ass shooting back then, Like there's no way 1928 01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:55,200 Speaker 1: they could have gotten good, Like how good could you 1929 01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:58,200 Speaker 1: get when every shot is just something so different? I 1930 01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:01,320 Speaker 1: don't know. In some ways I had inclined to agree 1931 01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:03,280 Speaker 1: just because of the quality, But then you had a 1932 01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:05,599 Speaker 1: lot of guys that were true craftsmen that could build. 1933 01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:08,519 Speaker 1: I mean that's why who built the rifle mattered, because 1934 01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:10,200 Speaker 1: you had guys that you said, we're throwing stuff together. 1935 01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:12,680 Speaker 1: But you look at guys that try and recreate some 1936 01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:14,920 Speaker 1: of that stuff, and they're using modern day C and 1937 01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:16,760 Speaker 1: C machines in the whole line yards and like, I'm 1938 01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:19,479 Speaker 1: having trouble getting to where this guy was consistently kind 1939 01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:22,400 Speaker 1: of making things, you know, handmade, like trying to replicate 1940 01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:24,760 Speaker 1: how they did this. It's pretty wild. And then if 1941 01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:26,120 Speaker 1: you go back and you look at the Civil War, 1942 01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:28,599 Speaker 1: you look at some of these some of these different 1943 01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:30,760 Speaker 1: rifles that these guys were shooting. I mean, you had 1944 01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:33,360 Speaker 1: guys that were shooting eight nine hundred yards in the 1945 01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:35,519 Speaker 1: Civil War that we're taking some of these you know 1946 01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:38,719 Speaker 1: creed More rifles and stuff, and they were sniping guys 1947 01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:42,639 Speaker 1: crazy distances. And or you go to the black Powder 1948 01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,080 Speaker 1: the Buffalo rifles, and you look at what those guys shoot, 1949 01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, like they have the quickly shoots and they 1950 01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:49,680 Speaker 1: shoot these black power It's crazy. What and they're doing 1951 01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:51,519 Speaker 1: the same thing. Those guys are you know, pouring those 1952 01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:53,559 Speaker 1: are say boats and you know they're not shooting round balls. 1953 01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:56,600 Speaker 1: But it's it's still sometimes I wonder. I'm like, I 1954 01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:58,720 Speaker 1: wonder if they like did have this figured out, if 1955 01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,120 Speaker 1: it's you know, like like the Pyramids, or like, I 1956 01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:02,960 Speaker 1: don't know how they did it, but here's the result, 1957 01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:04,519 Speaker 1: you know, if they were legit or if it's like 1958 01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:06,479 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of oh yeah, he was a 1959 01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:08,599 Speaker 1: great shot. He could you know, shoot the takeoff of Bossum. 1960 01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:11,400 Speaker 1: It's like there's a there's a thing in group at 1961 01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:13,360 Speaker 1: fifty yards and never else you're shooting a foot group, 1962 01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:15,400 Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't know, there's a thing called 1963 01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:18,479 Speaker 1: the Battle of Adobe Walls, when the bad at the 1964 01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:20,400 Speaker 1: Battle of Adobe Walls. It was a bunch of buffalo 1965 01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,880 Speaker 1: hunters down on the Southern Plains when they weren't supposed 1966 01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:26,759 Speaker 1: to hunt south of the Southern Railroad, but they started 1967 01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:28,400 Speaker 1: going down there and they got into a skirmish. I 1968 01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:30,120 Speaker 1: can't remember what tribes they got into a skirmish with, 1969 01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:34,439 Speaker 1: but there's this legend this guy making a shot, a 1970 01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:36,920 Speaker 1: thousand plus yard shot, and I was like, how much 1971 01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:40,000 Speaker 1: did he walk out and be like, haile married it 1972 01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:42,639 Speaker 1: and happened to hit someone, and how much did he'd 1973 01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:44,879 Speaker 1: be like here's what's gonna happen. It seems like hyperbole 1974 01:34:45,080 --> 01:34:49,760 Speaker 1: was pretty prevalent in that culture too, So this shot 1975 01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:54,360 Speaker 1: was substantiated by multiple sources because there was the the 1976 01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:57,800 Speaker 1: adobe walls thing. Yeah, and they credited that shot with 1977 01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:00,439 Speaker 1: ending the battle. But I'm saying, how much, like how 1978 01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:02,400 Speaker 1: much did he just go out and wing one out there? 1979 01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:04,760 Speaker 1: And he was more surprising and more surprised than the 1980 01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,439 Speaker 1: guy he hit. And I believe those it wasn't because 1981 01:35:08,479 --> 01:35:13,360 Speaker 1: it was like a little trade center, right, like trading post. 1982 01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:17,400 Speaker 1: And one of the accounts that I read like those 1983 01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:22,439 Speaker 1: are brand new rifles, like somebody brought them in to 1984 01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:26,920 Speaker 1: then sell and when. Um, because this was in Empire 1985 01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:31,880 Speaker 1: of the Summer Moon Ranche. I know it from Dan Flore. 1986 01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:36,400 Speaker 1: He's talking about it, and the way Dan Flores presents 1987 01:35:36,479 --> 01:35:40,920 Speaker 1: it is from the buffalo hunter's perspective, it was this 1988 01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:46,479 Speaker 1: long shot that's so stunned their adversaries. Um, like the 1989 01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:48,679 Speaker 1: hand of God is against us, We're just gonna go ahead. 1990 01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:55,240 Speaker 1: From the tribal perspective, someone had on the way to 1991 01:35:55,320 --> 01:36:00,880 Speaker 1: the battle, someone had killed a skunk and was taboo 1992 01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:06,519 Speaker 1: to kill a skunk ahead of a battle, or taboo 1993 01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:09,360 Speaker 1: to kill a skunk in general, and when like that 1994 01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:15,080 Speaker 1: man fell, it was affirmation that someone had violated a taboo. 1995 01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:20,840 Speaker 1: And that's their perspective on why that battle went south. 1996 01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:23,760 Speaker 1: So I asked Dan Floorys, I'm like, who was right, 1997 01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:28,160 Speaker 1: and he's like, both of them. You got hit viable 1998 01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:32,160 Speaker 1: and that's the derivation of like getting skunked. Right. I'm 1999 01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:34,559 Speaker 1: not sure, but I like it. But yeah, I mean 2000 01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:38,760 Speaker 1: I've heard the same It all plays out the exact 2001 01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:43,000 Speaker 1: same way, obviously, but I've heard, um there's a uh, 2002 01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, a very reputable shaman type character who said, 2003 01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, we go do this tech, I guarantee nobody 2004 01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:58,479 Speaker 1: will get touched. And then at the very outbreak, obviously 2005 01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:01,200 Speaker 1: somebody gets touched and in a baby way, and it 2006 01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:05,439 Speaker 1: was like, well all over, good, mojo is is gone. Shot. Yeah, 2007 01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:07,400 Speaker 1: it could have been a skunk, could have been whatever. 2008 01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,920 Speaker 1: There were two battles of adobe walls, and it was 2009 01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:15,640 Speaker 1: a very small amount of hide hunters defending like a 2010 01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:19,960 Speaker 1: little encampment from hundreds of adversaries, but with high falute 2011 01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:24,679 Speaker 1: and equipment, yeah, like big fifty col uh buffalo rifles. 2012 01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:26,360 Speaker 1: And in the one account I read, they were like 2013 01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:30,040 Speaker 1: brand new in box like trade goods. Right, So then 2014 01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:34,000 Speaker 1: like break about boys, we're under attack? Yeah, what did 2015 01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:36,560 Speaker 1: we missed? Steth? What is there? More? Is there like 2016 01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:41,479 Speaker 1: any uh marksmanship business that I should ask you about it? 2017 01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:43,599 Speaker 1: Never did? I want to ask about big boar pistols. 2018 01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:46,479 Speaker 1: How much experience do you have with them? Not a lot? 2019 01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:49,840 Speaker 1: I've shot? Uh. I went up to Alaska just in 2020 01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:51,840 Speaker 1: actually during college. I had a buddy that was a 2021 01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:54,599 Speaker 1: little bit younger than me that just graduated high school. 2022 01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:56,160 Speaker 1: So I first started college, we went up to Alaska. 2023 01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:59,280 Speaker 1: So I bought a forty four mag put them hardcast bullets, 2024 01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:00,800 Speaker 1: like we're going to bear a country. Time to get 2025 01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:03,200 Speaker 1: a little bigger peciooter. So I shot that a little bit. 2026 01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:05,200 Speaker 1: I've shot like four sixties and some of that stuff, 2027 01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:07,800 Speaker 1: but not a lot. You know, is it a lot 2028 01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:09,880 Speaker 1: harder or is it still just in your head the 2029 01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:12,360 Speaker 1: fact that you're dealing with this thing that just barks 2030 01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:17,040 Speaker 1: and makes your hand hurt so bad? Similar concepts, you know, 2031 01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:21,080 Speaker 1: It's it's definitely different. It's like driving a race. Carver's 2032 01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:28,320 Speaker 1: driving a you know, I don't know something. Yeah, I'm 2033 01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:31,160 Speaker 1: like it's a little different, but yeah, similar ideas, you know, 2034 01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:35,200 Speaker 1: breaking the trigger, keeping your keeping your sightes tight and 2035 01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:38,720 Speaker 1: breaking the trigger, and yeah, it's similar concepts, but it 2036 01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:41,639 Speaker 1: takes some muscle memory to get past the blast for sure, 2037 01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:45,439 Speaker 1: because like what you're speaking to is like a forty 2038 01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:50,320 Speaker 1: four mag with a four inch barrel. Yeah, how uncomfortable, 2039 01:38:50,560 --> 01:38:55,320 Speaker 1: how uncomfortable it is. And then how stunningly inaccurate one is. Well, 2040 01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:58,519 Speaker 1: they can be accurate, but I've always thought of those. 2041 01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's like, how light can we make a 2042 01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:03,240 Speaker 1: four fifty four so that it's easy to carry in 2043 01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:05,720 Speaker 1: bear country? Right? And then you're shooting the or a 2044 01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:09,000 Speaker 1: five hundred and it weighs, you know, two pounds versus 2045 01:39:09,080 --> 01:39:11,840 Speaker 1: like the four that it should weigh. Plus It's like, 2046 01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:13,600 Speaker 1: to me, that's what we call a get off me, 2047 01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:17,360 Speaker 1: bro weapon. You know, it's like the bears right here. 2048 01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:19,080 Speaker 1: It's like it's me to you, I just gotta be 2049 01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:20,800 Speaker 1: able to get that thing to bark and get it 2050 01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:24,080 Speaker 1: out and shoot at ten ft. I'm not I'm not 2051 01:39:24,120 --> 01:39:25,479 Speaker 1: gonna be go out and trying to smoke a bear 2052 01:39:25,560 --> 01:39:27,360 Speaker 1: with that thing at a hundred fifty yards. I might 2053 01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:29,400 Speaker 1: be getting this story wrong with someone was telling me 2054 01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:31,599 Speaker 1: about they had these They had a bunch of guides 2055 01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:37,280 Speaker 1: who carry revolvers short barreled revolvers is bear protection. It 2056 01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:38,960 Speaker 1: did something where they put him at the bottom of 2057 01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:44,960 Speaker 1: a hill and some guy rolls a basketball down the hill. Okay, 2058 01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:46,840 Speaker 1: I think I could be MESSI do you know this 2059 01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:52,840 Speaker 1: story before hit and that's the thing you're supposed to 2060 01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:54,360 Speaker 1: hit this bear in the head with as he's coming 2061 01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:56,839 Speaker 1: down on you. Well and until your point about protection, 2062 01:39:56,920 --> 01:39:58,920 Speaker 1: So if you're shooting a hunting pistol or something, then 2063 01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:00,599 Speaker 1: that's stiff. You don't put a scope hunt or maybe 2064 01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:03,120 Speaker 1: that's different. And I've I was talking to a kid 2065 01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:04,920 Speaker 1: whose dad used to hunt with a with a pistol 2066 01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:06,240 Speaker 1: and he was one of those guys that shot the 2067 01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:09,120 Speaker 1: big board like the four sixty rowlands and all those 2068 01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:12,160 Speaker 1: the wheel guns. And his dad, I guess, was one 2069 01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:14,400 Speaker 1: of those pistol arrow types that he just he's put 2070 01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,439 Speaker 1: tens of thousands around to it's one gun. And he 2071 01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:19,240 Speaker 1: was telling stories. They were breaking him. He need break 2072 01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:21,160 Speaker 1: cleay pages on hundred yards with this thing all the time. 2073 01:40:21,640 --> 01:40:23,000 Speaker 1: You know, rabbit would come around now and he just 2074 01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:25,559 Speaker 1: smoked this rabbit, you know, And there's tons of stories 2075 01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:27,519 Speaker 1: throughout the frontier days of pistol arrows that could just 2076 01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:29,680 Speaker 1: make incredible you like at Bob Munden, how fast that 2077 01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:31,120 Speaker 1: guy could draw and shoot. It's like you can't even 2078 01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:33,120 Speaker 1: see him. It's like ba boom, Like okay, I guess 2079 01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:38,040 Speaker 1: it's legit. You know Ross pistol shot. Well yeah, but 2080 01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:40,599 Speaker 1: you know, like as Bob Ross is slow, this guy's fast. 2081 01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:43,360 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, polar opposites, you know. And uh, 2082 01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:45,360 Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, my dad used to go shoot. He 2083 01:40:45,400 --> 01:40:48,960 Speaker 1: went and shot a brown bear in Canada. Last guy, 2084 01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:51,280 Speaker 1: I guess, and he shot the singing like a hundred 2085 01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:53,680 Speaker 1: forty yards. It was standing up and he shot right 2086 01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:55,400 Speaker 1: in the center of the chest. But he said they 2087 01:40:55,400 --> 01:40:57,920 Speaker 1: went out with the guide, you know. I mean, kids 2088 01:40:57,960 --> 01:40:59,479 Speaker 1: is telling stories, but I'm sure you know he can 2089 01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:01,599 Speaker 1: back them up. And other guys like, gah, that's dude, 2090 01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:03,639 Speaker 1: I've never seen make shoot pistol like this iron sights. 2091 01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:05,760 Speaker 1: So we're gonna go site in our hunting rifle and 2092 01:41:06,120 --> 01:41:07,439 Speaker 1: his guys kind of the same way to put up 2093 01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:09,680 Speaker 1: a paper plate. Shoot, you know, three shots on it. Yep, 2094 01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:11,880 Speaker 1: they're all on the plate. We're good to go. And 2095 01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:13,400 Speaker 1: this guy sting with a pistol. He's like a you 2096 01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:15,160 Speaker 1: shooting on a hunt a brown bear with a pistol. Boy, 2097 01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:16,400 Speaker 1: you know what kind of thing. He's like, sure, So 2098 01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:19,080 Speaker 1: he gets up there off hand, shoots four rounds I 2099 01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:20,800 Speaker 1: think on this plate or five rounds. I don't think 2100 01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:22,640 Speaker 1: the five rounds. Goes up there and it's like a 2101 01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:25,080 Speaker 1: four inch group on this plate a hundred yards, and 2102 01:41:25,120 --> 01:41:27,479 Speaker 1: he's like, literally, he shot a better group off hand 2103 01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:29,479 Speaker 1: with his pistol than the guy did shooting off the hood. 2104 01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:32,120 Speaker 1: And so the guys like, well, I guess. So there's 2105 01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:34,760 Speaker 1: guys out there, and I've known a couple that they 2106 01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:38,040 Speaker 1: shoot big bore stuff and take crazy accurate. But for me, 2107 01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:41,519 Speaker 1: my the gun I carry is a clock ten mill 2108 01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:46,280 Speaker 1: hardcast bullets because sometimes volumes volume is better than one. 2109 01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:48,200 Speaker 1: I get one off for the five hund to get 2110 01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:50,080 Speaker 1: that thing out, like I can. I can shut a 2111 01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:52,680 Speaker 1: clock pretty quick. So and I got ten rounds in 2112 01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:54,840 Speaker 1: that thing. So if I got a bear this to 2113 01:41:54,920 --> 01:41:56,519 Speaker 1: start chewing on me, I can get three or four 2114 01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:59,880 Speaker 1: off hopefully before I get knocked down. And so that's 2115 01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:01,519 Speaker 1: that's where I'm at. It's a it's a platform I'm 2116 01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:03,640 Speaker 1: used to and what are you doing this fall? I 2117 01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:05,400 Speaker 1: want to get together and hunt, like where I have 2118 01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:08,840 Speaker 1: tag and you don't watch for bears. You got it 2119 01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:12,720 Speaker 1: guessing it's going to be somewhere towards the direction over there, 2120 01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:17,360 Speaker 1: over there. That's the thing man bears have been. You know, 2121 01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:19,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot of areas I've hunted and been around 2122 01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:20,760 Speaker 1: and I've never hunted. You know. You get down to 2123 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:22,479 Speaker 1: like tom On or Basin or some of those areas. 2124 01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:26,519 Speaker 1: Guys that won't hunt there anymore, they're like, I I 2125 01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:28,320 Speaker 1: used to hunt there every year, but we were it's 2126 01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:30,080 Speaker 1: not if you run into a bear, It's like, what's 2127 01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:32,240 Speaker 1: the situation gonna be like? And it's every year. They're like, 2128 01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:34,240 Speaker 1: it's not worth it. You're walking out in your head lamp. 2129 01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:36,240 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's always kind of that, oh 2130 01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:37,920 Speaker 1: there's something in the night. It's like, well there is, 2131 01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:39,720 Speaker 1: you know, and like you're gonna run into them at 2132 01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:42,519 Speaker 1: some point, Like yeah, outfitters that don't work in certain 2133 01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:46,160 Speaker 1: areas because they're still because you're so bad on feeding 2134 01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:48,439 Speaker 1: it just as hard the bears. Just like what are 2135 01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:50,680 Speaker 1: you gonna do about a buddy? Yeah, you can't hurt me, 2136 01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:53,080 Speaker 1: now what you do about it now, you got any 2137 01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:54,960 Speaker 1: more you want to hit? Yeah, well, we had an 2138 01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:59,000 Speaker 1: email coming about the definition of loaded. Yeah, I think 2139 01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:02,519 Speaker 1: that would have been saving to talk about. Well, it's legal, 2140 01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:06,000 Speaker 1: it's a legal question. It is. Well, but no, because 2141 01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:09,679 Speaker 1: the weekend I've posed it to a couple of different 2142 01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:14,479 Speaker 1: people and uh, everybody's kind of got two answers. That's 2143 01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:17,599 Speaker 1: a good question. So he's a the guy's a lawyer. Yeah, 2144 01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:22,240 Speaker 1: I think it's a gap. Yeah, you want me to 2145 01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:25,000 Speaker 1: spell it out? Yeah, I read this. I actually saved 2146 01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:26,760 Speaker 1: this to talk about I didn't get to it. Yeah, 2147 01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:29,280 Speaker 1: she the I was trying to do my best here 2148 01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:31,720 Speaker 1: to make it simple for when she was in the courtroom, 2149 01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:35,720 Speaker 1: and I think that it was it came down to 2150 01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:41,680 Speaker 1: the definition of loaded, because too um for the perpetrator 2151 01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:47,320 Speaker 1: to be charged with aggravated assault, the gun had to 2152 01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:50,000 Speaker 1: be loaded. So then they came down to, well, what 2153 01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:54,080 Speaker 1: is loaded, because if it's not, then the punishment is 2154 01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:55,920 Speaker 1: not gonna be severe or the charge won't be as 2155 01:43:55,960 --> 01:43:59,240 Speaker 1: severe as if it is. And she says, well, the 2156 01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:01,760 Speaker 1: mag was full, and the other guy says, well, no, 2157 01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:04,160 Speaker 1: if it didn't have one in the chamber. So it 2158 01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:07,840 Speaker 1: wasn't loaded, So it's not you know, like he was saying, 2159 01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:11,000 Speaker 1: I'll shoot you. But if he actually can't shoot because 2160 01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:13,760 Speaker 1: he doesn't have a loaded weapon, then that's where like 2161 01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:17,439 Speaker 1: the gray area was. So she's like, dude, I for 2162 01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:20,760 Speaker 1: sure thought that you know, low you know in the 2163 01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:23,599 Speaker 1: magazine means loaded. And she went home and has been, 2164 01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:25,879 Speaker 1: you know, talking to other people about it and everybody, 2165 01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:29,559 Speaker 1: and she seems to be Uh. She wants to argue, 2166 01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,519 Speaker 1: wasn't She wants to argue that her client's gun wasn't 2167 01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:35,760 Speaker 1: loaded because he didn't have one chambered. No, she's saying 2168 01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:40,559 Speaker 1: that it was what she wants whoever where she stands 2169 01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,160 Speaker 1: on the case. But she's wanting to argue that having 2170 01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:46,960 Speaker 1: it having a loaded magazine counts for a loaded weapon. 2171 01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,519 Speaker 1: I think when you're talking about pointing it at a person, 2172 01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:55,160 Speaker 1: if you're out hunting, and he said, is that thing loaded? No, 2173 01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:59,400 Speaker 1: having some of the magazine, it is not loaded if 2174 01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:01,640 Speaker 1: it's not cham bird the minute I pointed at you, 2175 01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:04,840 Speaker 1: like if I point a revolver at you and it 2176 01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:07,160 Speaker 1: winds up that I have an empty cylinder in there, 2177 01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,200 Speaker 1: and and uh, and I got an empty cylinder and 2178 01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:12,680 Speaker 1: he says that loaded, and I'm like, no, when I'm 2179 01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:15,880 Speaker 1: pointing at you, I feel that it's a different it's 2180 01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:19,760 Speaker 1: a completely different set of rules. Well, what's the definition for, 2181 01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:22,200 Speaker 1: like for what you can I was just just how 2182 01:45:22,360 --> 01:45:25,000 Speaker 1: you I was just looking up the So we have 2183 01:45:25,160 --> 01:45:27,720 Speaker 1: different aspects, right, So you can carry, you know, you 2184 01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:30,840 Speaker 1: have different methods of carry. So you can carry loaded 2185 01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,360 Speaker 1: round in the chamber on safe, load round the chamber, 2186 01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:37,360 Speaker 1: off save loaded, no round in the chamber. So you've 2187 01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:39,479 Speaker 1: got different ways that you carry in the military. So 2188 01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:41,160 Speaker 1: like you're on a post and like, well you can't 2189 01:45:41,160 --> 01:45:42,679 Speaker 1: carry with the chamber, but you can carry it loaded 2190 01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:44,400 Speaker 1: or you carry can't hear it with the magazine period. 2191 01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:47,120 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I think it's gonna depend on 2192 01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:49,640 Speaker 1: the definition. I don't think Montone Code has anything that 2193 01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:51,720 Speaker 1: deals with that. I was just looking it up. Well, 2194 01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:58,519 Speaker 1: states person, she was in Idaho. I would be surprised 2195 01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:01,479 Speaker 1: if they have a definition of a loaded firearms. There 2196 01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:04,920 Speaker 1: is something to challenge, man. But there is some law 2197 01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:06,599 Speaker 1: and I would have to look it up that deals 2198 01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:11,559 Speaker 1: with concealed carry because there there's a law that says 2199 01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:16,120 Speaker 1: basically you can like brandishing a firearm is defined, and 2200 01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:18,760 Speaker 1: I don't think they've ever defined whether or not you 2201 01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:21,120 Speaker 1: know what loaded means or if you're branising a firearm, 2202 01:46:21,160 --> 01:46:23,360 Speaker 1: if it matters if it's loaded or not. It's there's 2203 01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,160 Speaker 1: kind of that's the only thing I've ever seen broken. 2204 01:46:25,200 --> 01:46:27,240 Speaker 1: Now you're saying in the military they use the term 2205 01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:30,240 Speaker 1: loaded for both situations, right, loaded in the magazine or 2206 01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:33,000 Speaker 1: loaded in the chamber. Well, they basically color code them, 2207 01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:34,639 Speaker 1: so you can carry red or you can carry black, 2208 01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:37,080 Speaker 1: and black means this, red means this. So lord, it's 2209 01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:40,200 Speaker 1: too broad, right, It's just here's the definition for it. 2210 01:46:40,600 --> 01:46:45,080 Speaker 1: How chambered is a better? Yea makes sense. Yeah, loaded 2211 01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:48,519 Speaker 1: is too broad in the hunting context as well, because 2212 01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:50,720 Speaker 1: guy levels off, let's get let's go with the pump 2213 01:46:50,760 --> 01:46:53,840 Speaker 1: action shotgun. Guy levels off on him with a pump 2214 01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:56,880 Speaker 1: action shotgun, and he's got tube full, none in the chamber, 2215 01:46:57,520 --> 01:46:59,559 Speaker 1: and then someone later wants to be well, it wasn't 2216 01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:02,320 Speaker 1: really low. It could have been like I'd be like, 2217 01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:04,880 Speaker 1: if I was a lawyer, I would say, no, one's 2218 01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:09,000 Speaker 1: ever been killed by a bullet in the magazine. Yeah, 2219 01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:11,639 Speaker 1: there's not a If there's not a round in the chamber, 2220 01:47:12,160 --> 01:47:14,040 Speaker 1: that gun is not gonna kill you. You just said 2221 01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:17,080 Speaker 1: it's loaded or chambered. Right, it's loaded. If there's any 2222 01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:19,280 Speaker 1: it's one of the magazine, it's chambered. If there's one 2223 01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:21,599 Speaker 1: of the chamber, right, that's that's what I would say. Yeah, 2224 01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:24,160 Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm trying to jump into multiple perspective trying. 2225 01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm taking the perspective of someone having aimed at me, 2226 01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:29,280 Speaker 1: who would later be like, I don't want to parse 2227 01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:31,920 Speaker 1: hairs here. You loaded the aid of the damn thing 2228 01:47:31,960 --> 01:47:34,759 Speaker 1: at me, Like, let's stop it. I could stop it aimed, 2229 01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:38,679 Speaker 1: but I could also see the point where in the court, 2230 01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:40,479 Speaker 1: like if I was getting if I was in trouble 2231 01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:43,560 Speaker 1: for having done that to someone else, I could imagine 2232 01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:48,360 Speaker 1: myself arguing very vehemently that it was in fact not loaded. Yeah, 2233 01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:50,160 Speaker 1: but you say, the level of the threat is if 2234 01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:52,320 Speaker 1: if you have to do that, you know, pump a 2235 01:47:52,360 --> 01:47:54,800 Speaker 1: shotgun rather than pull a trigger. The level of threat 2236 01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:58,600 Speaker 1: is different than both those like, it wasn't loaded, It 2237 01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:02,960 Speaker 1: wasn't loaded. It was loaded, but wasn't chambers. I think 2238 01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:06,400 Speaker 1: you have to you have to lawyer that life is 2239 01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:10,080 Speaker 1: hanging on the definition of this word. Not like they're 2240 01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:13,080 Speaker 1: going to get capital. No, I'd like to think that 2241 01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:16,200 Speaker 1: there was a were really he was in the chamber 2242 01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:19,439 Speaker 1: and they're like waiting to to to give him the drip, 2243 01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:22,320 Speaker 1: pending on what we just what we decided. No, she 2244 01:48:22,479 --> 01:48:25,120 Speaker 1: was just curious more about the common usage in our 2245 01:48:25,400 --> 01:48:28,000 Speaker 1: in our circles. In our circle, it would be that 2246 01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:30,800 Speaker 1: it was not loaded. I'll say that it would be 2247 01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:32,720 Speaker 1: that there's not around in the chamber. It's not likely 2248 01:48:32,840 --> 01:48:35,000 Speaker 1: I would say to you, is that thing loaded? And 2249 01:48:35,160 --> 01:48:40,320 Speaker 1: you say no, I'm thinking, very well, have a magazine 2250 01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:42,560 Speaker 1: in it. But there's nothing changed. Man. I feel like, 2251 01:48:43,040 --> 01:48:45,439 Speaker 1: you know, this was twenty years ago I took hunter safety, 2252 01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:48,960 Speaker 1: but I feel like I learned learned it different. I think, 2253 01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:51,559 Speaker 1: I mean, this is in Washington. Maybe the rules are different, 2254 01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:54,519 Speaker 1: but I remember being told you cannot have a loaded 2255 01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:57,679 Speaker 1: gun in a car. And you know what, in that case, 2256 01:48:57,720 --> 01:48:59,639 Speaker 1: you're right. In that case, it can't have a magazine 2257 01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:02,439 Speaker 1: because act And so I'm so when when Yanni brought 2258 01:49:02,479 --> 01:49:04,360 Speaker 1: this up the other day, I'm like, well, I mean, like, 2259 01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:07,960 Speaker 1: if if you're coming back from hunting, you get pulled over, 2260 01:49:08,360 --> 01:49:11,559 Speaker 1: officer asks do you have a gun in the car? Yes? 2261 01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:15,800 Speaker 1: Or isn't loaded? You. You better be able to say no, 2262 01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:19,880 Speaker 1: and you better have the bullets around. That's a good point, right. 2263 01:49:19,960 --> 01:49:22,000 Speaker 1: We just got a letter from a woman who went 2264 01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:25,880 Speaker 1: her family was all going fishing. This is an Idaho 2265 01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:28,240 Speaker 1: story to her family's all going fishing and they go 2266 01:49:28,360 --> 01:49:30,880 Speaker 1: down to a park and the dad's fishing with the 2267 01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:34,400 Speaker 1: kids and she's reading her book. It's something or another 2268 01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:37,680 Speaker 1: happens where someone's got to leave and they give her 2269 01:49:37,720 --> 01:49:40,560 Speaker 1: the rod. And so she's just holding a rod on 2270 01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:42,560 Speaker 1: the grass, holding a rod, and someone comes up and 2271 01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:46,760 Speaker 1: checks her license. She doesn't have a license, so I'm 2272 01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:49,280 Speaker 1: not fishing. But I'm like, yes, I'm Ada Laike holding 2273 01:49:49,320 --> 01:49:51,440 Speaker 1: the rob. I didn't fish. And they give her a citation, 2274 01:49:52,720 --> 01:49:55,880 Speaker 1: but she argues that court gets thrown out. Really, yeah, 2275 01:49:56,439 --> 01:49:58,679 Speaker 1: I didn't fish. I had a rod at a lake 2276 01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:02,160 Speaker 1: because whatever her husband said, hold the rod, I think, 2277 01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:05,320 Speaker 1: and he came up. She and this is her claim, 2278 01:50:05,439 --> 01:50:07,960 Speaker 1: is that this individual came up the second she touched 2279 01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:11,680 Speaker 1: that rod. Got you. Oh, well, that's where you go 2280 01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:13,720 Speaker 1: back to the you know, one of the other things 2281 01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:15,840 Speaker 1: that moonlight as a reserve police officer, So I get 2282 01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:17,080 Speaker 1: to play with some of this on the other side 2283 01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:19,200 Speaker 1: and then one thing they talked about a lot when 2284 01:50:19,240 --> 01:50:21,760 Speaker 1: you're looking at how to enforce laws, because I mean, 2285 01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:24,400 Speaker 1: there's obviously ambiguity in a lot of areas, and as 2286 01:50:24,439 --> 01:50:27,759 Speaker 1: a legislator, I don't want there to be strict clarity 2287 01:50:27,800 --> 01:50:29,960 Speaker 1: where you're gonna go through and define everything down to 2288 01:50:30,080 --> 01:50:32,840 Speaker 1: every level, because then you're gonna have double the size 2289 01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:35,960 Speaker 1: of code. I would rather live in a state where 2290 01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:38,400 Speaker 1: people use common sense and say, hey, you know this, 2291 01:50:38,680 --> 01:50:41,000 Speaker 1: this lawsayes don't do this. So this is obviously what 2292 01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:43,720 Speaker 1: it means, so just don't do that. But that's where 2293 01:50:43,720 --> 01:50:45,320 Speaker 1: you talk about the spirit of the law versus a 2294 01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:47,160 Speaker 1: letter of the laws, like what is this law designed 2295 01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:49,519 Speaker 1: to do? And so as law enforcement, whether that's you know, 2296 01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:51,800 Speaker 1: fishing wildlife and you know, we had some hits with that, 2297 01:50:51,920 --> 01:50:54,599 Speaker 1: like tagged immediately upon kill. Well that got changed before 2298 01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:56,599 Speaker 1: moving it because the guy got a ticket and he's like, well, 2299 01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:58,719 Speaker 1: I haven't moved it. We're gutting it. But I didn't 2300 01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:02,000 Speaker 1: take it. He's like said, don't what is this actually accomplished? 2301 01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:04,479 Speaker 1: If I don't take this thing now versus five minutes 2302 01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:06,120 Speaker 1: from now, it doesn't do anything. The idea is that 2303 01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:08,840 Speaker 1: you can't move it around and transport it, because then 2304 01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:10,120 Speaker 1: if you get caught, you're like, oh, I was gonna 2305 01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:13,240 Speaker 1: tag it. It's like, but you didn't. So I think 2306 01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:14,680 Speaker 1: that's where you get to this. Like you said, is 2307 01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:17,360 Speaker 1: it unloaded? It's like everybody knows, like, hey, can you 2308 01:51:17,439 --> 01:51:19,080 Speaker 1: shoot me with this gun? Or is it taking apart 2309 01:51:19,120 --> 01:51:21,479 Speaker 1: and put in a bag. That's kind of the definition 2310 01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:23,599 Speaker 1: where if you're pointing it at me, it's like, well 2311 01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:25,240 Speaker 1: to have around in the chamber. So I think a 2312 01:51:25,280 --> 01:51:27,800 Speaker 1: lot of that comes down to interpretation of letter of 2313 01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:31,080 Speaker 1: the law or the spirit of the law. It's gonna 2314 01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:33,559 Speaker 1: have to figured out speaking a letter to the law 2315 01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:37,439 Speaker 1: boy that we wanted to hit on. And this is 2316 01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:40,240 Speaker 1: like a real I can already like if people want 2317 01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:44,960 Speaker 1: to stop listening, they can go ahead, they can go ahead, 2318 01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:48,680 Speaker 1: But I was about to drone on about some we're 2319 01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:52,760 Speaker 1: gonna try. Yeah, there's something we wanted because the reason 2320 01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:54,840 Speaker 1: the reason we have an obligation to talk about this 2321 01:51:54,960 --> 01:51:58,920 Speaker 1: is because we invited We invited it. We did from lawyers. 2322 01:51:59,040 --> 01:52:01,479 Speaker 1: I'm glad we did. Yeah. I heard from a lot 2323 01:52:01,560 --> 01:52:06,479 Speaker 1: of very very kind and knowledgeable people on this and 2324 01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:08,840 Speaker 1: really helped my understanding. It's good enough as a bunch 2325 01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:11,720 Speaker 1: of lawyers out there. Do you hear from any assholes? No, 2326 01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:18,840 Speaker 1: Sam got glowing reviews, good good Joe. Joe mentioned one 2327 01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:21,479 Speaker 1: that was that was a little like maybe distasteful. I'm like, 2328 01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:24,479 Speaker 1: I don't if it doesn't have anything substantive, I don't 2329 01:52:24,479 --> 01:52:27,280 Speaker 1: really need to see it. The lawyers that rode in 2330 01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:29,960 Speaker 1: and I read, I read a handful of him last night. 2331 01:52:30,120 --> 01:52:34,920 Speaker 1: Lawyers that wrote in, we're saying almost unanimously that Sam 2332 01:52:35,080 --> 01:52:39,760 Speaker 1: did a fair job of walking through the Supreme Court 2333 01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:43,200 Speaker 1: case Doctor, which people are probably sticking hearing about. I 2334 01:52:43,280 --> 01:52:47,240 Speaker 1: got a letter of correction from Ben Long who said 2335 01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:49,000 Speaker 1: that he in fact did not tell me not to 2336 01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:52,680 Speaker 1: talk about it. He said, just talk about it carefully. Um, 2337 01:52:53,040 --> 01:52:55,040 Speaker 1: but in this we had a thing. So I'm gonna 2338 01:52:55,040 --> 01:52:56,519 Speaker 1: try to bring people up to speed in some kind 2339 01:52:56,520 --> 01:52:58,080 Speaker 1: of efficient fashion. So I just want to touch on 2340 01:52:58,160 --> 01:53:00,120 Speaker 1: this correction, because this is the most detailed crack can 2341 01:53:00,160 --> 01:53:02,160 Speaker 1: we've ever done. If it's in fact, it can be 2342 01:53:02,240 --> 01:53:05,080 Speaker 1: counted as a correction. The Supreme Court is hearing a case. 2343 01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:07,640 Speaker 1: They already heard the case, they haven't decided on. It 2344 01:53:08,240 --> 01:53:14,639 Speaker 1: would be Um. It has to do with if a tribe. 2345 01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:17,080 Speaker 1: In this case, we're talking about the Crow tribe. The tribe, 2346 01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:19,320 Speaker 1: the Crow tribe has a treaty with the United States 2347 01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:23,519 Speaker 1: from the eight hundreds that allows them to hunt on 2348 01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:29,479 Speaker 1: their own reservation but also on unoccupied lands outside of 2349 01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:32,479 Speaker 1: their reservation. And there's been a lot of ambiguity about 2350 01:53:32,520 --> 01:53:35,880 Speaker 1: what unoccupied lands means. Does that mean any national forest, 2351 01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:39,519 Speaker 1: national park, BLM land, state land? Like, what does it mean? 2352 01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:43,240 Speaker 1: And it's people felt like this had been settled, but 2353 01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:46,960 Speaker 1: it's not settled, and that a member of the Crow 2354 01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:50,400 Speaker 1: tribe went out and kills some elk off of his reservation, 2355 01:53:50,920 --> 01:53:52,519 Speaker 1: he got in trouble with the game ward and his 2356 01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:56,719 Speaker 1: hunting companions pled guilty. He's saying, I'm not guilty because 2357 01:53:56,840 --> 01:53:59,880 Speaker 1: my treaty gives me the right to hunt on the 2358 01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:03,640 Speaker 1: Bighorn National Forest because it's unoccupied land. And so it 2359 01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:08,120 Speaker 1: goes to um it elevated up to where the Supreme 2360 01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:09,720 Speaker 1: Court is going to hear this and make some kind 2361 01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:15,160 Speaker 1: of decision, possibly to upset current understandings of whether or 2362 01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:18,640 Speaker 1: not the National Forest in Wyoming could be regarded as 2363 01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:23,439 Speaker 1: on occupied landfair Okay, In this we were talking about um. 2364 01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:27,760 Speaker 1: How this individual when he first gets in trouble for 2365 01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:31,439 Speaker 1: his poaching violation. He goes in front of a court 2366 01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:36,200 Speaker 1: and the court tells him, don't tell me about your 2367 01:54:36,400 --> 01:54:39,640 Speaker 1: don't tell me about your treaty rights. You're not allowed 2368 01:54:40,120 --> 01:54:46,000 Speaker 1: to argue that you were exercising treaty rights. And I 2369 01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:51,400 Speaker 1: was like, how can you prevent someone from making an art? Like, 2370 01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:54,480 Speaker 1: how can you prevent someone from like making their argument? 2371 01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:57,920 Speaker 1: And a bunch of lawyers, some lawyers rolled into say, like, 2372 01:54:58,040 --> 01:55:00,080 Speaker 1: what it is that makes it? That would be a 2373 01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:04,240 Speaker 1: situation where you're not allowed to give your to make 2374 01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:06,800 Speaker 1: the case you want to make in front of a judge. Yeah, 2375 01:55:06,880 --> 01:55:08,560 Speaker 1: And I think and we muddled our way through it, 2376 01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:12,200 Speaker 1: and I think we were pretty close. But uh, a 2377 01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:14,040 Speaker 1: lot of these these people wrote in with some some 2378 01:55:14,240 --> 01:55:17,200 Speaker 1: really helpful corrections just from my own understanding of this. 2379 01:55:17,720 --> 01:55:23,360 Speaker 1: And so how that worked was that Herrera's lawyers, prior 2380 01:55:23,440 --> 01:55:26,760 Speaker 1: to going to trial the would be the convicted poacher, 2381 01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:32,120 Speaker 1: yes or yes, before he stood trial, they they sought 2382 01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:36,080 Speaker 1: to have all charges dropped. They said, we have this treaty, 2383 01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:39,000 Speaker 1: need to drop all charges. He didn't do anything wrong. 2384 01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:42,920 Speaker 1: So that is is something called a motion in leimon 2385 01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:49,840 Speaker 1: a um. But and what that means is um, it's 2386 01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:53,600 Speaker 1: settling issues before a trial by either asking the court 2387 01:55:53,680 --> 01:55:56,520 Speaker 1: to pre approve the admissibility of something they planned to 2388 01:55:56,600 --> 01:56:00,160 Speaker 1: present evidence or an argument, or asking the court to 2389 01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:04,320 Speaker 1: exclude something that they don't want their opponent to present. 2390 01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:08,680 Speaker 1: So prior to the trial, his lawyer said, hey, you can't, 2391 01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:10,320 Speaker 1: you can't even try us for this. He's got a 2392 01:56:11,080 --> 01:56:14,880 Speaker 1: he's got this treaty to support it. But then the 2393 01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:21,360 Speaker 1: prosecution says, no, that has already been settled. It's already 2394 01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:24,080 Speaker 1: been decided in the Repsist decision that we mentioned from 2395 01:56:24,080 --> 01:56:27,160 Speaker 1: the late nineties, it's already been decided that the Crow 2396 01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:30,440 Speaker 1: Indians do not have a right to hunt on the 2397 01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:34,080 Speaker 1: Bighorn National Forest. Specifically, the Tent Circuit ruled on that 2398 01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:38,000 Speaker 1: that issue is settled. You cannot relitigate an issue that 2399 01:56:38,160 --> 01:56:41,800 Speaker 1: is settled, got you, and so so saying don't bring 2400 01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:45,160 Speaker 1: that all up again. Yeah, Rhodor decided that if you've 2401 01:56:45,160 --> 01:56:46,560 Speaker 1: got something else to say, go ahead and say it, 2402 01:56:46,600 --> 01:56:48,960 Speaker 1: but don't lay that on me. Yeah. So in court then, 2403 01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:52,080 Speaker 1: because he pled not guilty, he had to make a 2404 01:56:52,160 --> 01:56:55,040 Speaker 1: different argument, which he decided. They decided to go with 2405 01:56:55,800 --> 01:56:58,280 Speaker 1: I didn't know where he was, didn't realize that he'd 2406 01:56:58,280 --> 01:57:01,640 Speaker 1: crossed into Wyoming. And they're like, well, you're a game 2407 01:57:01,680 --> 01:57:03,680 Speaker 1: word and at the time you should have known you're guilty. 2408 01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:07,600 Speaker 1: But then after that they appealed and to you know, 2409 01:57:07,720 --> 01:57:13,440 Speaker 1: the Wyoming Appellate Court. They um upheld the prior decision. 2410 01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:17,440 Speaker 1: They appealed to the Wyoming Supreme Court, they declined it, 2411 01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:20,760 Speaker 1: and then they appealed to the United States Supreme Court. 2412 01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:23,720 Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's a little amazing because I've 2413 01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:25,760 Speaker 1: been reading a lot about this and the United Supate 2414 01:57:25,880 --> 01:57:28,600 Speaker 1: State Supreme Court has something like seven or eight thousand 2415 01:57:28,840 --> 01:57:31,360 Speaker 1: cases appealed to it every year, and they select like eight, 2416 01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:34,800 Speaker 1: and so it's it's a little it's a little interesting 2417 01:57:35,120 --> 01:57:38,560 Speaker 1: that they were able to get there. But one of 2418 01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:41,440 Speaker 1: the one of the things the Supreme Court is looking at, 2419 01:57:41,480 --> 01:57:44,840 Speaker 1: how many cases of about eight it's crazy in the 2420 01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:47,640 Speaker 1: same year because they're also here in the case about 2421 01:57:47,680 --> 01:57:51,040 Speaker 1: the guy who has the pistol permit in New York. 2422 01:57:51,120 --> 01:57:55,880 Speaker 1: He's got a pistol permit for his home that prohibits 2423 01:57:55,960 --> 01:57:59,480 Speaker 1: him from taking his pistol out of his home, and 2424 01:57:59,560 --> 01:58:02,360 Speaker 1: he's saying, why do my second amendment rights end at 2425 01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:05,280 Speaker 1: my doorstep. And they're hearing that case too. This is 2426 01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:09,440 Speaker 1: big year for hunters for in the Supreme Court. So 2427 01:58:09,760 --> 01:58:12,320 Speaker 1: so that so the Supreme Court is interested in this 2428 01:58:12,600 --> 01:58:16,080 Speaker 1: very thing, and so you know kind of um, they're 2429 01:58:16,160 --> 01:58:21,920 Speaker 1: interested in issue preclusion um where where it's it's a 2430 01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:27,320 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's this judicial doctrine that they're they're 2431 01:58:27,360 --> 01:58:30,280 Speaker 1: not really sure if if that was the right decision 2432 01:58:30,760 --> 01:58:35,640 Speaker 1: to not allow him to relitigate a settled issue. And 2433 01:58:35,880 --> 01:58:37,840 Speaker 1: and as we know the problem with this is that 2434 01:58:37,960 --> 01:58:42,400 Speaker 1: there's another Supreme Court the mill Locks versus Minnesota decision 2435 01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:47,120 Speaker 1: that kind of shook the underpinnings of the repsist decision. 2436 01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:51,320 Speaker 1: It didn't overturn it, but it it uh, it undermined it. 2437 01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:55,840 Speaker 1: So they're they're looking they're looking at this, this this 2438 01:58:56,000 --> 01:59:02,440 Speaker 1: idea of whether you can relitigate something if if you will. 2439 01:59:02,520 --> 01:59:06,040 Speaker 1: There's been holes poked into it. Like like an example 2440 01:59:06,120 --> 01:59:07,600 Speaker 1: I was laying out as let's say you lived in 2441 01:59:07,720 --> 01:59:11,880 Speaker 1: some situation where they said no one like we've decided 2442 01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:15,400 Speaker 1: that it is never justifiable to kill someone in self defense. 2443 01:59:15,720 --> 01:59:17,560 Speaker 1: So then you kill someone in self defense and you 2444 01:59:17,640 --> 01:59:20,720 Speaker 1: go up a murder trial, and you're like, but dude, 2445 01:59:20,720 --> 01:59:23,080 Speaker 1: we need to revisit the idea of whether it's okay 2446 01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:25,640 Speaker 1: to kill someone's self defense. Like, I'm not done talking 2447 01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:28,280 Speaker 1: about that. And this is kind of a little bit 2448 01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:33,080 Speaker 1: of what's it is it is? And um, so if 2449 01:59:33,160 --> 01:59:36,120 Speaker 1: we covered that, there was one more email that I 2450 01:59:36,160 --> 01:59:39,240 Speaker 1: found was very interesting and provides a, you know, a 2451 01:59:39,320 --> 01:59:42,160 Speaker 1: good perspective on on this case and perhaps where it 2452 01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:44,880 Speaker 1: will go. Another thing I learned is that this this 2453 01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:48,240 Speaker 1: decision is likely to be issued in June. We were 2454 01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:50,240 Speaker 1: going like, oh, well, I heard it was this summer, 2455 01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:52,360 Speaker 1: Maybe it be later, but it's the Supreme Court is 2456 01:59:52,360 --> 01:59:54,839 Speaker 1: going to go in on recess after that, so they 2457 01:59:55,120 --> 01:59:58,760 Speaker 1: usually issue a lot of their their rulings prior to 2458 01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:01,600 Speaker 1: going on recess. Thought from it, Yeah, I'm kind of 2459 02:00:01,640 --> 02:00:05,280 Speaker 1: obsessed with the Horari Wyoming case. This is the one 2460 02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:09,120 Speaker 1: you're talking about right here. UM somewhat, So I was. 2461 02:00:09,240 --> 02:00:11,080 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this because treaty lack came up. 2462 02:00:11,120 --> 02:00:13,880 Speaker 1: So in UM I sent the Judiciary Committee and we 2463 02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:17,120 Speaker 1: had the hearing for the CSK T water compact. Um 2464 02:00:17,320 --> 02:00:22,000 Speaker 1: my second um two sessions ago, I guess, and it's 2465 02:00:22,080 --> 02:00:25,680 Speaker 1: huge and what they argued was that the tribe has 2466 02:00:26,760 --> 02:00:30,760 Speaker 1: that's confederated right. So the confederation Cutiny tribe, which is 2467 02:00:31,040 --> 02:00:34,000 Speaker 1: the Flathead basically area. So they had a ruling where 2468 02:00:34,040 --> 02:00:36,400 Speaker 1: they they redid the water compact. So they were going 2469 02:00:36,440 --> 02:00:38,480 Speaker 1: through and the water is a huge issue in Montone Age, 2470 02:00:38,480 --> 02:00:41,080 Speaker 1: you guys, I'm sure are aware. And what they said 2471 02:00:41,160 --> 02:00:45,400 Speaker 1: is that the tribe had primary water rights or we're 2472 02:00:45,440 --> 02:00:49,400 Speaker 1: trying to establish primary water rights even back to you know, 2473 02:00:49,480 --> 02:00:51,040 Speaker 1: some of these claims are in the eighteen hundreds that 2474 02:00:51,080 --> 02:00:52,920 Speaker 1: people filed for their water rights, and they're saying, well, 2475 02:00:52,960 --> 02:00:55,560 Speaker 1: the treaty was like eighteen I don't remember the year 2476 02:00:55,600 --> 02:00:57,240 Speaker 1: off top of my head, but it's it was prior. 2477 02:00:57,320 --> 02:00:59,600 Speaker 1: The treaty was signed prior to these water rights, so 2478 02:00:59,600 --> 02:01:02,640 Speaker 1: they're saying these should be a higher priority. And the 2479 02:01:02,720 --> 02:01:04,560 Speaker 1: language that they used in the treaty to make this 2480 02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:10,240 Speaker 1: claim was that the treaty granted the tribal members the 2481 02:01:10,320 --> 02:01:13,360 Speaker 1: right to hunt and fish in common with the population. 2482 02:01:13,960 --> 02:01:16,200 Speaker 1: So what they're saying is, well, you have the right 2483 02:01:16,240 --> 02:01:18,520 Speaker 1: to go fishing on any land that anybody else can 2484 02:01:18,520 --> 02:01:20,640 Speaker 1: go fishing on. And it, you know, it gets into 2485 02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:22,960 Speaker 1: the nuances of what does that mean exactly? But the 2486 02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:25,920 Speaker 1: argument that they made was, if you have the right 2487 02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:27,960 Speaker 1: to hunt and fish on a stream over in like 2488 02:01:28,040 --> 02:01:30,200 Speaker 1: and we're talking like a big timber area. So this 2489 02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:32,920 Speaker 1: is how far out the water rights went. They said, 2490 02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:34,760 Speaker 1: if you have a right to hunt and fish, then 2491 02:01:34,840 --> 02:01:37,280 Speaker 1: you have a right to to mandate that there's an 2492 02:01:37,320 --> 02:01:40,640 Speaker 1: appropriate amount of water to protect the fisheries in those areas. 2493 02:01:41,240 --> 02:01:44,560 Speaker 1: So that irrigators who might have a priority date that's 2494 02:01:44,840 --> 02:01:46,600 Speaker 1: you know, in the eight hundreds for their water rights, 2495 02:01:47,000 --> 02:01:50,520 Speaker 1: then can be argued that well, that the treaty prohibits 2496 02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:54,960 Speaker 1: them from using water that could then affect the industream flows, 2497 02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, two miles away, because they have the right 2498 02:01:58,000 --> 02:02:01,040 Speaker 1: to fish there, and if you lower the water to 2499 02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:05,160 Speaker 1: where it's no longer um beneficial to the fisheries, than 2500 02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:09,320 Speaker 1: you're obsurfing that. And so that was the argument that 2501 02:02:09,360 --> 02:02:11,720 Speaker 1: they made, and the treaty went through, and it was 2502 02:02:11,800 --> 02:02:14,320 Speaker 1: compounded with the fact that the Montana Constitution says the 2503 02:02:14,400 --> 02:02:16,800 Speaker 1: waters of Montana are owned by the people of Montana, 2504 02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:19,400 Speaker 1: and so the treaty the way that it's written is 2505 02:02:19,640 --> 02:02:23,840 Speaker 1: since the treaty or the Water Compact is actually states 2506 02:02:23,880 --> 02:02:26,440 Speaker 1: that the water is held in trust by the federal government, 2507 02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:30,640 Speaker 1: so it's not actually owned directly by the tribes. It's 2508 02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:33,000 Speaker 1: owned through the federal government. So then it's like, wait 2509 02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:34,920 Speaker 1: a second, our constitution says that we have that we 2510 02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:37,680 Speaker 1: own our water. How can the federal government then own 2511 02:02:37,720 --> 02:02:40,480 Speaker 1: our water? So it was a huge issue, and you know, 2512 02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:42,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuances, but it's kind of the 2513 02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:44,480 Speaker 1: same argument. It's like, well, what is the tribal what 2514 02:02:44,640 --> 02:02:46,440 Speaker 1: is the treaty actually grant you? Does it grant you 2515 02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:48,840 Speaker 1: the right to have this? And so that's a that's 2516 02:02:48,840 --> 02:02:51,920 Speaker 1: a great lead in. It's a huge, huge, Yeah, it's 2517 02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:54,240 Speaker 1: a huge issue and people are vehement on both sides 2518 02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:56,120 Speaker 1: of it. So yeah, and so this other one I 2519 02:02:56,160 --> 02:02:58,920 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about is exactly that. It's like what 2520 02:02:59,040 --> 02:03:02,640 Speaker 1: did the treaty and and and this guy uh he 2521 02:03:03,280 --> 02:03:05,720 Speaker 1: he says, there's a recent recent law graduate and just 2522 02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:08,480 Speaker 1: took the bar last week, but he did study Indian 2523 02:03:08,560 --> 02:03:10,440 Speaker 1: law and wanted to explain something that they felt like 2524 02:03:10,520 --> 02:03:13,120 Speaker 1: we missed. And so he explains that the idea of 2525 02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:18,920 Speaker 1: canons of construction, they're basically rules that like underpin laws 2526 02:03:19,080 --> 02:03:24,480 Speaker 1: and understanding of of laws such that you know later 2527 02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:26,560 Speaker 1: when they're brought up again. You can understand, you know, 2528 02:03:26,720 --> 02:03:31,720 Speaker 1: understand where where they're coming from. And so the the 2529 02:03:32,360 --> 02:03:36,800 Speaker 1: the cannonate of construction for federal Indian law comes from 2530 02:03:38,280 --> 02:03:42,000 Speaker 1: Supreme Court in eighteen thirty Supreme Court decision eighteen thirty two. 2531 02:03:42,160 --> 02:03:45,000 Speaker 1: So this is even prior to that that treaty being signed. 2532 02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:50,080 Speaker 1: But there's something there's a quote, a concurring opinion from 2533 02:03:50,400 --> 02:03:55,200 Speaker 1: Justice McLean that says, the language used in treaties with 2534 02:03:55,280 --> 02:03:58,600 Speaker 1: the Indians should never be construed to their prejudice. How 2535 02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:01,680 Speaker 1: the words of the treaty were understood by this unlettered people, 2536 02:04:02,240 --> 02:04:06,080 Speaker 1: rather than their critical meaning, should form the rule of construction. 2537 02:04:06,960 --> 02:04:10,720 Speaker 1: So they like the understanding. So it's it's it's what 2538 02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:15,640 Speaker 1: they thought it meant at the time. What the natives 2539 02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:18,840 Speaker 1: thought it meant at the time is what matters, not 2540 02:04:19,120 --> 02:04:23,360 Speaker 1: what our modern understanding of that word or phrase means. 2541 02:04:24,080 --> 02:04:26,680 Speaker 1: So this gets at the So we were just talking 2542 02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:30,040 Speaker 1: about one issue in the Supreme Court of issue preclusion, 2543 02:04:30,880 --> 02:04:33,480 Speaker 1: and this is the other issue that they're discussing as 2544 02:04:33,600 --> 02:04:37,400 Speaker 1: unoccupied lands. And so this guy is suggesting this is 2545 02:04:37,480 --> 02:04:40,760 Speaker 1: interesting too because we had brought up the context of 2546 02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:44,959 Speaker 1: the time previously as far as where there are animals, 2547 02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:48,320 Speaker 1: and at that time, there were no animals on those lands, 2548 02:04:48,400 --> 02:04:53,480 Speaker 1: So in that context what was understood at the time. 2549 02:04:53,520 --> 02:04:55,400 Speaker 1: And we like, well, that's not part of it because 2550 02:04:55,440 --> 02:04:59,040 Speaker 1: there's there's no al interesting that they would have thrown 2551 02:04:59,120 --> 02:05:01,800 Speaker 1: that in. But this of like you can hunt unoccupied 2552 02:05:01,920 --> 02:05:04,760 Speaker 1: lands as long as there's any game there, because it's like, 2553 02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:08,600 Speaker 1: why even add that in? Yeah, and and Wyoming argues 2554 02:05:09,200 --> 02:05:13,520 Speaker 1: explicitly that it was under they they think it was 2555 02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:17,120 Speaker 1: understood in these treaty arrangements that the game was going away, 2556 02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:20,200 Speaker 1: that it would soon be extirpated, and in fact it was. 2557 02:05:21,040 --> 02:05:23,520 Speaker 1: And and so they they saw that all these things 2558 02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:27,480 Speaker 1: as temporary arrangements, that that the the this was this 2559 02:05:27,640 --> 02:05:30,800 Speaker 1: is a transitional phase as the natives, as the crow, 2560 02:05:31,400 --> 02:05:35,960 Speaker 1: transitioned to an agrarian society. So Wyoming is like, well, yeah, 2561 02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:38,320 Speaker 1: we saw they Yeah, this treaty was signed, but you 2562 02:05:38,360 --> 02:05:41,560 Speaker 1: can hunt until they're gone. Yeah, every everybody, everybody assumed 2563 02:05:41,760 --> 02:05:45,640 Speaker 1: that the land surrounding would become occupied quickly as states 2564 02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:49,320 Speaker 1: were established and settlers moved in, and you can hunt 2565 02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:52,280 Speaker 1: all this area as long as they're still game because 2566 02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:56,240 Speaker 1: it's going away fast. And in fact Elk were extirpated 2567 02:05:56,320 --> 02:05:59,520 Speaker 1: from the Big Horn Mountains shortly after the signature of 2568 02:05:59,600 --> 02:06:05,919 Speaker 1: that tree, and were brought back through very rigorous restocking efforts. 2569 02:06:06,360 --> 02:06:08,840 Speaker 1: I think another thing that the warrants pointing out is 2570 02:06:10,200 --> 02:06:14,000 Speaker 1: tribal members are obviously allowed to hunt um the same 2571 02:06:14,040 --> 02:06:17,680 Speaker 1: as any other resident nonresidents set law, So this is all. 2572 02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:19,600 Speaker 1: It's not like they can't hunt. It would be that 2573 02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:21,880 Speaker 1: they can hunt under the same guidelines that any other 2574 02:06:22,200 --> 02:06:24,840 Speaker 1: state resident or nonresident would come in and hunt. But 2575 02:06:24,960 --> 02:06:27,000 Speaker 1: this has to do with like an overlay, which is 2576 02:06:27,080 --> 02:06:31,000 Speaker 1: just specific tribal hunting rights specific the tribal members, yes, 2577 02:06:31,160 --> 02:06:36,320 Speaker 1: and and and the specific like tribal treaty hunting. It 2578 02:06:36,680 --> 02:06:40,160 Speaker 1: it's it's an important distinction for people to understand, because yes, 2579 02:06:40,320 --> 02:06:43,240 Speaker 1: natives can apply and draw these tags in the Big 2580 02:06:43,280 --> 02:06:46,360 Speaker 1: Horn Mountains in the in this area, but the tribal 2581 02:06:46,480 --> 02:06:51,520 Speaker 1: treaty hunting, which which occurs in many states, often exists 2582 02:06:51,560 --> 02:06:57,839 Speaker 1: on a different plane than state managed you know, normal hunting. 2583 02:06:58,200 --> 02:07:04,200 Speaker 1: It's it's it's often often in seasons are often not existent, 2584 02:07:04,720 --> 02:07:07,720 Speaker 1: bag limits are different. It's it's more like it's more 2585 02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:12,440 Speaker 1: like Alaska subsistence hunting than it than it fits within 2586 02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:16,720 Speaker 1: our you know, neat little program of of state managed wildlife. 2587 02:07:17,520 --> 02:07:20,200 Speaker 1: So are you good on clearing points? I think so 2588 02:07:20,800 --> 02:07:22,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna put it the rest. Let's put the rest. 2589 02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:24,120 Speaker 1: And in June you're gonna come on and tell us 2590 02:07:24,120 --> 02:07:28,400 Speaker 1: what happened, if it's a big deal or not. Yeah, yeah, 2591 02:07:28,520 --> 02:07:31,040 Speaker 1: I mean and and my my views continue to evolved. 2592 02:07:31,080 --> 02:07:32,640 Speaker 1: I said, I think I put it as a three 2593 02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:36,080 Speaker 1: or four last time, that it's going to change the 2594 02:07:36,120 --> 02:07:38,560 Speaker 1: world as we know it. Yeah, And and I think 2595 02:07:38,800 --> 02:07:42,360 Speaker 1: I might be more of a solid for even a 2596 02:07:42,440 --> 02:07:45,880 Speaker 1: five or six after some of these conversations I've had 2597 02:07:46,080 --> 02:07:47,960 Speaker 1: in the last couple of weeks. This could have major 2598 02:07:48,080 --> 02:07:54,800 Speaker 1: ramifications for game management. I I wouldn't say major, but 2599 02:07:55,120 --> 02:08:01,560 Speaker 1: I would say it could significant ramifications. All right, man, interesting, 2600 02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:04,400 Speaker 1: thank you? Anything to add? Joannie? I don't got the 2601 02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:07,160 Speaker 1: turkey calls in your pocket. Yeah, I'm I'm getting ready. 2602 02:08:07,400 --> 02:08:10,800 Speaker 1: We're lessing a month away. Ben and I are counting down. 2603 02:08:10,920 --> 02:08:14,840 Speaker 1: We're counting down April second. Now where we're going on 2604 02:08:14,960 --> 02:08:21,320 Speaker 1: the Rio grand, the Rio grand A, the Rio grand Turky. Okay, Seth, 2605 02:08:21,400 --> 02:08:24,360 Speaker 1: thanks for coming down, Manure. We're gonna have We're gonna 2606 02:08:24,640 --> 02:08:27,560 Speaker 1: probably have to call on you again for corrections and whatnot. 2607 02:08:28,040 --> 02:08:30,400 Speaker 1: I'll be around all right and thanks every How about 2608 02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:32,400 Speaker 1: some closing thoughts? Oh you want to hit the closer? 2609 02:08:32,800 --> 02:08:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily have one, but he presents the opportunity 2610 02:08:38,080 --> 02:08:40,200 Speaker 1: opportunities to closers. I know, but I want one for 2611 02:08:40,280 --> 02:08:44,080 Speaker 1: this video. Uh, Benny got a new concluders. That's a 2612 02:08:44,120 --> 02:08:45,800 Speaker 1: lot of pressure. You canna film me or film Steve 2613 02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:50,000 Speaker 1: while I conclude sure there's an important one on the 2614 02:08:50,080 --> 02:08:53,120 Speaker 1: Rio Grande because I forgot about that that overlaps with 2615 02:08:53,200 --> 02:08:57,880 Speaker 1: our Austin, Texas live podcast dates. Oh yeah, that's a 2616 02:08:57,880 --> 02:09:00,200 Speaker 1: good one. Doesn't overlap we go from there to to 2617 02:09:00,280 --> 02:09:02,720 Speaker 1: Austin for the live show. Well it's one plane ticket, 2618 02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:05,560 Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. What's the point. That's your concluder. I 2619 02:09:05,640 --> 02:09:09,680 Speaker 1: think that's just something to mention we're doing a big, fancy, 2620 02:09:09,760 --> 02:09:13,520 Speaker 1: super fun live podcast in Austin, Texas. Tickets for sale yet, Yep, 2621 02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:18,000 Speaker 1: they are, They are for sale. My concluider is as 2622 02:09:18,080 --> 02:09:21,200 Speaker 1: we were talking about shooting, I was thinking about all 2623 02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:23,640 Speaker 1: the movies I watched as a kid and all the 2624 02:09:23,720 --> 02:09:27,560 Speaker 1: bullshit shots that were made that were clearly not you know, 2625 02:09:27,640 --> 02:09:30,200 Speaker 1: I was thinking of Legends of the Falling some dove. 2626 02:09:30,320 --> 02:09:33,080 Speaker 1: I was thinking of Tombstone, Tombstone. I was thinking of 2627 02:09:33,120 --> 02:09:37,120 Speaker 1: all these movies quickly, all these like seminal movies at 2628 02:09:37,160 --> 02:09:39,360 Speaker 1: shape TOI I think about the West, where all there 2629 02:09:39,480 --> 02:09:42,520 Speaker 1: was at least a or a number of bullshit shots 2630 02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:44,120 Speaker 1: in each one of those. What I always hated was 2631 02:09:44,200 --> 02:09:47,840 Speaker 1: that somebody has a revolver and they shoot like eighteen times. 2632 02:09:47,960 --> 02:09:50,040 Speaker 1: There's a mel Gives a movie, The Patriot, where the 2633 02:09:50,840 --> 02:09:54,000 Speaker 1: red coat the officer, he has a muzzle loaded flint 2634 02:09:54,040 --> 02:09:55,920 Speaker 1: lock pistol and the dude is riding a horse like 2635 02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:58,000 Speaker 1: two yards down this creek and he just pulls up 2636 02:09:58,040 --> 02:10:00,280 Speaker 1: and boom, and the dude falls off his horse. And like, yeah, 2637 02:10:00,560 --> 02:10:04,680 Speaker 1: you ever watched all the buster scrugs or Yeah, that's 2638 02:10:04,720 --> 02:10:07,280 Speaker 1: almost a parody of good shooting. But that's a parody 2639 02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:09,680 Speaker 1: of like what's been done in the world in the 2640 02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:13,400 Speaker 1: realm of like Western shooting. Yeah, it's like a satire. 2641 02:10:13,680 --> 02:10:15,880 Speaker 1: But that's my conclude. Oh I got a concluder. Um, 2642 02:10:16,880 --> 02:10:19,120 Speaker 1: We've talked over the years a lot of a lot 2643 02:10:19,160 --> 02:10:21,920 Speaker 1: about a documentary that I did with zero point zero production, 2644 02:10:22,120 --> 02:10:26,120 Speaker 1: and um, you can watch it now. Go to stars 2645 02:10:26,160 --> 02:10:29,920 Speaker 1: in the sky film dot com. Make sure I get 2646 02:10:29,960 --> 02:10:35,600 Speaker 1: that right, stars in the sky film dot com. And 2647 02:10:35,680 --> 02:10:40,880 Speaker 1: then it's available for uh streaming and download on video. 2648 02:10:41,760 --> 02:10:45,560 Speaker 1: You can rent it, you can buy it, so check 2649 02:10:45,600 --> 02:10:49,280 Speaker 1: it out. Full length feature film available now. How was 2650 02:10:49,280 --> 02:10:51,600 Speaker 1: that for concluding, Yanni? Good job you wanta turn that 2651 02:10:51,680 --> 02:10:55,200 Speaker 1: came around and hit your own concluder stas, Thanks for coming, 2652 02:10:55,240 --> 02:11:01,000 Speaker 1: We appreciate my pleasure. Has got another way. He's raising 2653 02:11:01,040 --> 02:11:03,680 Speaker 1: his hand. No, he doesn't know, he's just raising his phone. 2654 02:11:03,720 --> 02:11:04,320 Speaker 1: Thanks everyone,