1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: controlled by one man. 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: Starting his own artificial intelligence company. 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 3: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 4: He says. 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 5: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 5: be different. 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 4: He'll vote Republican. 10 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 11 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: on him. 12 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 6: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 13 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 4: Anything he does is fascinating the people. 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 3: Welcome to Elon Inc. Where we discuss Elon Musk's vast 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 3: corporate empire, his latest gambits and antics, and how to 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 3: make sense of it all. I'm your host, Joel Webber, 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 3: sitting in for David Papadoppolos. 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 6: I know I must be incredibly racist if I just 19 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 6: want someone who knows how to fly the damn play, 20 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 6: not someone who got in because they checked a couple 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 6: of boxers and maybe there's a big boy in the 22 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 6: room to teach them how to do it in case 23 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 6: something goes wrong. 24 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 3: What is Donald Trump Junior talking about and what does 25 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 3: it have to do with Elon Musk? More than you 26 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 3: might think to discuss Elon's recent French posts about undocumented 27 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: immigrants and corporate diversity initiatives and more. Will convene Davy Alba, 28 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 3: who covers tech and misinformation here at Bloomberg News. Hi, 29 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 3: Dana Hole, the world's most meticulous Tesla reporter, Good morning, 30 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: and Max Chafkin, senior reporter at Bloomberg BusinessWeek. 31 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: Hello. 32 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 3: Later this episode, we'll also talk about the latest Tesla drama. 33 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 3: But first, what has Elon been posting about on X 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: Davy Alba? 35 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 7: Oh boy, I mean, there's been a lot recently. He's 36 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 7: been talking about how HBCU grads have lower IQ, how 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 7: sis is a heterophobic word. 38 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 4: He's been talking a lot. 39 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 7: About quote illegals, particularly you know, sort of illegal immigrants 40 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 7: and their voting patterns, and that this idea of meritocracy 41 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 7: that is very prevalent in tech, that competence must win 42 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 7: over racism and sexism. And yeah, there's a lot to 43 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 7: dig into there. 44 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: What's also interesting, he seems to be noisier lately than usual. 45 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I would point to a report by 46 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 7: the Institute for Strategic Dialogue that I read recently, and 47 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 7: they basically tracked Elon's you know, sort of pattern of 48 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 7: posting and topics that he's been writing on X from 49 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 7: before he was the owner of the platform to the 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 7: months after. 51 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 4: And before, you know, most of his rhetoric was around. 52 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 7: Crypto, it was around Tesla and SpaceX and. 53 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 4: The other companies that he owned. 54 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 7: And then once he was the owner of Twitter, he 55 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 7: started interacting very frequently with right wing users. And you 56 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 7: know this is not anecdotal, It's based on an analysis 57 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 7: of his most popular posts and you know, just kind 58 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 7: of like who he follows, who he replies to, and 59 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 7: you know, we see that that changed after he acquired Twitter, 60 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 7: which I think is notable. I think that says something 61 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 7: about his information bubble kind of like. 62 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 4: What he's up to in some ways. 63 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 7: And you know, gives us a sense of like where 64 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 7: this is all. 65 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: Leading Max, What is happening in Elon's information bubble? And 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: let's bring back that that Don Junior reference that we 67 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: started the show with. What's he being exposed to? 68 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the latest thing Davey kind of hinted at 69 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: it and that Don Junior clip gets at it is 70 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: basically the idea that somehow diversity caused the door of 71 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: the Alaska Airlines flight to to blow off. Now, again, 72 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: this doesn't make a lot of sense. It's based on, 73 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: as far as I can tell, a right wing influencer 74 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: sort of doing a kind of a tortured reading of 75 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: a Boeing sec proxy that talked about executive compensation and 76 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: linking executive compensation to meeting diversity metrics in addition to safety. 77 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: And so you go through like several logical leaps, and 78 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: the suggestion is that somehow diversity is hurting the ability 79 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: of airlines and plane companies and regulators to hire competent people, 80 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: and like you know, hopskipping a jump to somehow DEI 81 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: is to blame for these in air issues. 82 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: It is nonsense. 83 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: It's nonsense both in the sense that you know, it's 84 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: there's no evidence that like air travel has gotten less safe, 85 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: right air travel is historically extremely safe, So that part 86 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. 87 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: The other thing is there certainly. 88 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 2: Is a critique to be made of Boeing, And but 89 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: I think if you talk to of Boeing that what 90 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: they will talk about has more to do with sort 91 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: of the need to meet quarterly earnings challenges and so on. 92 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: And what I also think is that basically what we're 93 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: seeing is like Elon Musk. He's sort of broadcasting these 94 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: existing right wing memes, but he's bringing them to a 95 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: much wider audience. 96 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 3: Right. 97 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: He found this boeing thing. 98 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: He didn't create it himself, but it goes from Elon 99 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 2: Musk into Don Junior and to a much much wider 100 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: audience than it otherwise would have had before. 101 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 7: Just to connect the dots a bit more, United Airlines 102 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 7: Program partners with Hampton University in Virginia, elizabeth City State 103 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 7: University in North Carolina, and Delaware State University. 104 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 4: Those are historically black. 105 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 7: Colleges, and the partnership allows graduates to get an interview 106 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 7: with United Airlines Pilot program. And Elon's tweet if we 107 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 7: look at it for beta, he's and it will take 108 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 7: an airplane crashing and killing hundreds of people for them 109 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 7: to change this crazy policy of d I E a 110 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 7: play on DEI. There's so many problems with that argument. 111 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 7: First of all, this kind of partnership is just kind 112 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 7: of like a chance to interview. And the idea that 113 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 7: HBCU grads have lower IQ on just in general is 114 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 7: completely baseless, and I think it's worth just stating that 115 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 7: as fact. As we lay this out for our audience. 116 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 5: One thing that really that I just keep thinking about 117 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 5: whenever I see these posts, that really struggle with like 118 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 5: how much to call Elan out on them, because calling 119 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 5: them out also kind of like shares them, right, So 120 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 5: it's like that whole thing of like amplification, like unwitningly 121 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 5: amplifying as a journalist. And so I always I'm on 122 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 5: the fence about how much to even talk about it, 123 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 5: because I feel like we're doing Elon's work for him, 124 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 5: of injecting these horrible ideas into the mainstream. But the 125 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 5: thing that I always think about is his companies are 126 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 5: incredibly diverse, and it's so striking to me that he 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 5: is on this rampage about DEI when Tesla, for example, 128 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 5: is a minority majority company, Like those factory workers are 129 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 5: overwhelmingly LATINX black, you know, Filipino. I mean, there are 130 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 5: erg groups at all of his companies. There's women at SpaceX, 131 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 5: there's black at Tesla, There's LGBTQ at Tesla, or there was, 132 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 5: And I just have to wonder if he is actively 133 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 5: trying to dismantle those groups, or if the people who 134 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 5: are leading those those employee groups are just going to 135 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 5: leave in frustration and not be replaced. It's a real 136 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 5: slap in the face to his workers. 137 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 2: We should also just like keep in mind the context 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: here is the twenty twenty four presidential campaign, and you 139 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: know much of what Elon Musk is tweeting. You know, 140 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: it's tempting to be like, well, why is he saying 141 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: all these horrible things about migrants or why is he 142 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: sort of suddenly fixated on these kind of white nationalistic 143 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: tropes around you know, black crime and things like that. 144 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: And the answer is is because it's what Donald Trump 145 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: and many of the Republican presidential candidates are talking about 146 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: right now. 147 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 3: We are now on the heels of Iowa, the Iowa 148 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: Pracus where Trump ran away with it, frankly right, And 149 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 3: so you think all of these recent tweets from Elan 150 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 3: over the past week totally was part of the build 151 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: up to a political moment in Iowa. 152 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: I'm just saying that Elon Musk now operates within a 153 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: conservative media political ecosystem like he is, like basically, in 154 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: addition to being the world's richest man, in addition to 155 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: running a bunch of companies, we say that all the 156 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: time he is a political figure he's like simultaneously like 157 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: Rush Limbaugh and I don't know, like Warren Buffett. 158 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: It's really and so. 159 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: And I was actually before this podcast, I'm trying to 160 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: think back, like have we had somebody like this in 161 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: American history? And it's like pretty hard, Like maybe go 162 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 2: back to Charles Lindbergh, Like where somebody who has the 163 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: level of celebrity and power and money that Elon Musk 164 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: has alongside the political interest and you know, influence and demagoguery, 165 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: Like it's pretty unusual. 166 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 3: And Howard Hughes will stick with their aeronautic theme. Maybe well, 167 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: I don't think. 168 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes, though, had quite the ambition to be an 169 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: influencer in the same way, right, And Lindberg of course 170 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: was like this celebrity, very admired and also leading up 171 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: to World War Two, you know, an isolationist and giving 172 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: these big speeches and so on. I was saying, like 173 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan in the in the mid seventies, you know, 174 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 2: before he ran for president, but like Reagan by that 175 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: point was I think maybe more of a has been 176 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: a as a celebrity than Elon Musk is today. 177 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: So it's I don't know, it's very hard to look 178 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: for a historical peril. Most right wing and left wing. 179 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: Political figures who are sort of doing this kind of 180 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: you know, weird stew of conspirac size, conspiracy theorizing and 181 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: so on, they don't have this kind of money, right, Like, 182 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: like there are checks on their ability to spread crazy ideas, 183 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: which is that like media networks won't air their stuff 184 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 2: and they start losing money. 185 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: Elon Musk has, at least so far. 186 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: Neither of those concerns, right, he owns a media platform 187 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: and the value of Tesla, while you know the stock 188 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 2: actually hasn't been doing great or the last a week 189 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 2: or so, he's obviously still very wealthy. 190 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 3: Davie. One of the other themes that came up in 191 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: some of his tweets was around immigration. What do we 192 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: know about Elon's views about immigration and how do these 193 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 3: recent his recent posts and comments jibe with that. 194 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 7: You know, I think that Elon has been, like I 195 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 7: said earlier, kind of building up to this argument of 196 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 7: you know, illegal immigrants kind of getting the ability to 197 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:02,359 Speaker 7: vote in the upcoming election will lead to Democrats being elected. 198 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 4: And you know, if you look at just the last. 199 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 7: Few tweets, he had about these quote unquote legals. The 200 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 7: dozens of replies to his tweets are about you know, 201 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 7: oh well now we have mail in ballots, we have 202 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 7: you know, all of these ways to commit voter fraud 203 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 7: that has been enabled by democratic people in power. And 204 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 7: so I think that this is all kind of part 205 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 7: of mosque courting controversy, which has been the shift since 206 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 7: he became owner of x Max. Was saying that there 207 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 7: isn't really a good comparison to a public figure, But 208 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 7: what keeps coming to my mind is Trump. You know, 209 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 7: the way that Trump courts controversy and the way that 210 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 7: people are forced to report on him as you know, 211 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 7: first a presidential candidate and then the president, and you 212 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 7: know this idea of misleading information coming from the top, 213 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 7: and just because it is a person in power, people 214 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 7: are forced to pay attention to it. That gives that 215 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 7: person and all the platforms he controls, and you know, 216 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 7: for muskets X way higher profile. 217 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: I would also say, you know, we've talked about the 218 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 2: possibility that Musk would sort of move towards Trump. 219 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: You know, originally he backed Ronda Santis. 220 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: He sort of played foot see with RFK and Vivek Ramaswami, 221 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 2: who dropped out of the race shortly after losing the 222 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: Iowa caucus. You know, Elon by sort of going, you know, 223 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 2: stop the steal or stop the steal curious. He's he 224 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: has in a bunch of different ways, you know, basically 225 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 2: endorsed the idea of being open minded to Donald Trump's 226 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: view that the twenty twenty election was being was was stolen, 227 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 2: and that you know, it's a way for him to 228 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: kind of, you know, maneuver himself to where, you know, 229 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: the heat of the Republican Party is like I think 230 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 2: he misjudged, you know, where Republicans were going initially and 231 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 2: now as a part of what's going on with this 232 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 2: misinformation is like an effort to tack closer to the 233 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 2: sort of heart of the MAGA. 234 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 4: Movement, where there is certainly a lot of engagement. 235 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 7: I also like this phrasing, Max, that you said, stop 236 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 7: to steal curious, because a lot of folks who spread 237 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 7: misleading stuff on social networks often toe this like very 238 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 7: delicate line of not exactly crossing directly into misinformation, but 239 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 7: are in this space of well, we're just asking questions 240 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 7: about what's going on here, what might be behind you know, say, 241 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 7: like this airplane malfunctioning, Could it possibly be that we 242 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 7: are hiring unqualified pilots? Could it possibly be because these 243 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 7: these pilots are you know, from historically black, and you 244 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 7: know these sort of just like swirl of just asking 245 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 7: questions about it introduces the topic into the public sphere 246 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 7: without exactly stating something that is provably false. 247 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: Dana how as a close watcher of Eland for a 248 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 3: long time, and just to kind of connect all the 249 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: things that we've talked about, from the undocumented immigrants to 250 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: the political ambition perhaps or interests, how do you think 251 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: his views Elon's views have evolved in the time that 252 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 3: he's owned X Now. 253 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 5: Well, I think, yeah, as Max and Davey have pointed out, 254 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 5: we definitely see a more open pivot to the right, 255 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 5: But I don't think it's been like a hard pivot. 256 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 5: I think he's always been frankly like a right wing libertarian. 257 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 5: He just was politically astute about where the winds were. 258 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 5: And when President Obama was president, you know, he very 259 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 5: he kept those ideas under wraps and just like was 260 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 5: the green clean energy person, like you know, ushering in 261 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 5: the shift to the electric vehicle revolution. Now that we're 262 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 5: in an election season, and you know, I think he's 263 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 5: been emboldened by his wealth and has seen so far 264 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 5: that nothing has really stopped him. And the other kind 265 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 5: of context that is always in mind here is that 266 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 5: his empire is under investigation by several agencies. And when 267 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 5: it comes to diversity and racism, like remember that Tesla 268 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 5: first was sued by the State of California Civil Rights 269 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 5: Division and then by the federal EEOC for rampant, systematic, 270 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 5: widespread anti black racism at their factory in California. And 271 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 5: so everything that he does to kind of to sort 272 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 5: of call into question DEI, I mean, you know, as 273 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 5: a as an ethos is the backdrop is that his 274 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 5: companies are really being like sued by the federal government 275 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 5: for that. And so the more that he can kind 276 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 5: of amplify his concerns about DEI, the more sort of 277 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 5: populist support he gets for whenever the EEO c levees 278 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 5: a fine or you know, whatever the EEO does. And 279 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 5: so it's like a two track thing of him closing 280 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 5: up to Trump but also really portraying himself as this 281 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 5: victim of big government overreach. 282 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 3: These lawsuits are ongoing by the way, and Tesla says 283 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 3: that in California, the Department of Fair Employment and Housing 284 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: conducted a bare bones investigation without interviewing key witnesses, requesting 285 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: key documents, or ever stepping foot in the Fremont facility, 286 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 3: and that the agency has abandoned its founding purpose in 287 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 3: favor of making sensational headlines. Anyway, Max, what's. 288 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: Different here is that in previous elon Musk has as 289 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: Dana said, he's been pretty politically savvy, right, He's in 290 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: prior elections, including in twenty twenty, has seemed to try 291 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: to keep his options open. You know, in twenty twenty 292 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: he had sort of backed away from Trump and in 293 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: some ways turned critic though he was also saying that, 294 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: you know, there were things about she was trying to serve, 295 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: trying to have it both ways a little bit on Trump. 296 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: And now what we've seen is a much more sort 297 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: of full throated embrace of the Republican Party and and 298 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: and he's basically trying to navigate to whoever is going 299 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: to be the Republican nominee for president. 300 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: And I think it's because of what Dana is saying. 301 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 2: He perceives that the Biden administration has turned against him, 302 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: is you know, and is and feels that he needs 303 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 2: to make a more you know, like a full bet 304 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 2: on the election, which of course comes with a lot 305 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: of risk. There's a reason most CEOs like don't do this, 306 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: and it's because, you know, you pick a side and 307 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: your side loses that that is not always great for you, 308 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 2: and both either in terms of kind of like a 309 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: from a regulatory perspective or from just like a brand perspective, 310 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: right like you're you're potentially alienating like half the country. 311 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 3: Okay, So last week there was news that Hurts was 312 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 3: selling twenty thousand evs to shift back to gas powered cars, 313 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: has about a third of its EV fleet. This comes 314 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 3: after in twenty twenty one, Hurts announced it would buy 315 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: one hundred thousand Teslas, also without a discount full price 316 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 3: for those Also in Tesla news. On Monday night, Elon 317 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 3: posted on x that you'd like to own twenty five 318 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: percent of Tesla he currently owns about thirteen percent, or 319 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 3: you just pivot into AI and robotics elsewhere. So let's 320 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 3: start with the Hurts news, and then we're going to 321 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 3: talk about Tesla ownership and maybe even a little bit 322 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 3: of board Talk, Dana, any particular meaning to what these 323 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 3: EV numbers at Hurts are about. 324 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is super interesting to me. When Hurts 325 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 5: announced that they were buying all these Teslas, that was 326 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 5: like a big moment that led Tesla to get this 327 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 5: trillion dollar valuation, and it was this sign that like 328 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 5: EV's had finally really gone mainstream and it was a 329 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 5: big part of like the Tesla stock rise. And I've 330 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 5: rented Tesla's for her several times and it's been a 331 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 5: great experience for me. But I think that like for 332 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 5: the average person who maybe has never driven an EV before, 333 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 5: you have to learn some things about charging, and you know, 334 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 5: like it hasn't been a seamless experience for everybody. And 335 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 5: what happened was Tesla really dropped their prices, which meant 336 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 5: the resale value was lower, and then Hurts was kind 337 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 5: of left holding the bag because now they own all 338 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 5: these cars that have appreciated, and rental car companies typically 339 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 5: like they sell off their cars pretty quickly. 340 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 3: Max. What's the response been from Elon on this? 341 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: Has Elon brought it up? 342 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 2: I think he has attempted to, as as a kid, 343 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: say like tweet through it or whatever. This is kind 344 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 2: of a this is a nothing issue compared to, you know, 345 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 2: the question of will CNN ignore Vivek Ramaswami's chances of 346 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 2: winning the Iowa caucus, which he was on you know, 347 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 2: for days prior to to what happened last night, and 348 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 2: now as congratulated Vivek on you know, going quietly and 349 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: with dignity or whatever. I think Dana has brought up 350 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 2: the kind of hurt side of this. I do think 351 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 2: there is a Tesla demand side of this. You look 352 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 2: at what Hurts is saying, and it to me, it 353 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 2: seems like they're kind of trying to be nice about it, 354 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: and they're saying, well, you know, the demand wasn't there 355 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: the repair They're they're sort of saying a bunch of 356 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: things that make it sound like, you know, people aren't 357 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 2: as excited about EV's as we thought. But of course 358 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: people are not as excited about Tesla EV's as they thought. 359 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: I think that may partly be a result of Elon 360 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: Musk's crap posting of his of his weird tweets, which 361 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 2: we talk about all the time, and we've been looking 362 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 2: for sort of signs like, are is this you know, 363 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 2: gonna maybe hurt demand for the cars. 364 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: I think we're seeing it here. 365 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 3: Okay, Dan, let's connect this into the ex post that 366 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 3: Elon had Monday night, where he currently owns thirteen percent 367 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 3: of the company, says that he wants to own twenty 368 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 3: five percent or he's taken his aspirations for AI and 369 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 3: robotics elsewhere. What do you make of that? 370 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 5: So it's hilarious, Like here, it is like Martin Luther 371 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 5: King weekends, like most people are like trying to you know, 372 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 5: honor doctor King and enjoy a long weekend, but always 373 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 5: does stuff on the weekends when like the Beat reporter 374 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 5: is not working and the Beat reporters on his companies 375 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 5: are not working. So this is like sort of classic Elon. 376 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 5: So there's two things going on. Musk used to own 377 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,719 Speaker 5: like twenty two percent of Tesla, and then he sold 378 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 5: shares to buy Twitter. So he's like in this position 379 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 5: of not having this like controlling stake because of his 380 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 5: own folly of buying this social media platform. So that's 381 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 5: one piece of it. The second piece of it is 382 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 5: that he got incredibly wealthy because of this crazy moonshot 383 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 5: compensation package that Tesla's board approved in twenty eighteen where 384 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 5: he basically like met these milestones and tranches and then 385 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 5: got like more shares as the company hit this market 386 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 5: cap and it was crazy at the time, but like 387 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 5: everyone won, right like Tesla did Gangbusters. Elon got all 388 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 5: this money, He's met all the tranches, and he's basically 389 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 5: signaling to his board that he wants a new comp 390 00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 5: plan to stick around. But the current compensation plan is 391 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 5: like been the subject of this huge lawsuit in Delaware 392 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 5: chancery court and the judge has not ruled on that yet, 393 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 5: so like there's no way that like the board is 394 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 5: gonna do another comp plan while they're still waiting for 395 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 5: the last one to be decided on. But it's clear 396 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 5: that there's something happening there. And then finally, what just 397 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 5: cracks me up to no end is he's like, Tesla 398 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 5: is an AI and a robotics company. It's not just 399 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 5: a car company. We're an AI company. I don't know, Guys, like, 400 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 5: I don't If I don't have twenty five percent, I 401 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 5: might just have to take my marbles and go do 402 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 5: AI and robotics elsewhere. And it's like, dude, come on, 403 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 5: I fight It fascinating and hilarious and I would love 404 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 5: to know what the people of a compensation committee of 405 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,239 Speaker 5: Tesla's board are thinking. But it seems to me like 406 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 5: they've got another plan ready to go, but they're they're 407 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 5: waiting for the ruling from Delaware Chancery Court before they 408 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 5: spring it out. 409 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, normally you wait till like you're doing something really 410 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 2: good before asking for like a massive pay increase, like 411 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: a like you know this would amount to a compensation increase. 412 00:22:59,280 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: I don't know. 413 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 2: It's like hundreds of billions of dollars, conceivably over over 414 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 2: some period of time. The thing that's funny to me 415 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 2: is like, so if I said, you know, guys, yesterday 416 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 2: I was thinking a lot and if Bloomberg chooses not 417 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: to double my salary, I might have to do a 418 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 2: different Elon podcast. You guys would laugh at me, because 419 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 2: I am there's no other problem Elon. There's no other 420 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: credible Elon podcast for me to do. But but in 421 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 2: the case of Elon Musk, of course there is a 422 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 2: credible threat because you know, he's done this thing with 423 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 2: X and Grock right like it. It doesn't sound so 424 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: crazy to think that the board might be like, oh geez, like, 425 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 2: we better watch out or Elon's gonna get all the 426 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 2: AI value and and stick it in Grock. 427 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 7: Forgive me if I'm like wrong about this, but I 428 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 7: also wanted to maybe ask Max and Danna. The AI 429 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 7: that Elon is doing with Tesla has nothing to do 430 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 7: with Generative AI and Grock, right, these seem to be 431 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 7: completely different spheres, And so is this. 432 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 4: Somewhat of an empty threat? Like this is just like 433 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 4: words rhetoric. 434 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 5: It's like like with everything with Elon, everything is related, right, 435 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 5: So he is training Tesla's cars to you on AI, 436 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 5: like the data they're you know, they're they're using AI 437 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 5: vision data sets for the cars. But then he's got 438 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 5: Optimists the robot which he's which is also sort of 439 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 5: AI ish. But then he's probably using like the language 440 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 5: on X to train something. But and then he's going 441 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 5: to need like data centers to do all this, and 442 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 5: like I could see all the companies intertwine in various ways. 443 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean I think you raise a good point. 444 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 5: Like when he says AI and robotics, I mean I'm 445 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 5: assuming he's, you know, he seems to be clearly talking 446 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 5: about Tesla, but then what is he going to do 447 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 5: like spin off the Dojo Computer to like a separate company, 448 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 5: like if he doesn't get the twenty five percent, Like, 449 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 5: that's what I'm wondering about. 450 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 3: This comes down to the board, right, Like you've asked 451 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 3: for a pay increase. The board is waiting on Delaware 452 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 3: and a decision in Delaware. Wouldn't the board, I mean, 453 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: the board is friendly, we know this with Elon, but 454 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 3: wouldn't the board just push back and say no, we 455 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 3: don't need to pay you any extra. And also, anything 456 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 3: that's AI and related to Tesla, you can't take out 457 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 3: and go put it in your other company if you're 458 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 3: not working for Tesla anymore. 459 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: Right, Hahaha, Joel, you think the Tesla board is going 460 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 2: to you know? I mean it's like the funniest thing 461 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: about this to me is the stated reason for this 462 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: why Musk said he needs, you know, a bunch more equity, 463 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 2: a huge amount of equity, is the risk of a 464 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: takeover of Tesla without if he doesn't have twenty five percent, 465 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: you could have a hostile takeover could happen, somebody else 466 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: could get control of Tesla, which is hilarious because like Musk, 467 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,439 Speaker 2: there's absolutely no way and I mean Musk can literally 468 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 2: do anything he wants. On the board at least so far, 469 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 2: has basically gone along with it, you know, owning multiple companies, 470 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: posting crazy stuff, basically ignoring all sorts of government rules 471 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 2: and regulations. 472 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: You know, the board basically says yes to everything he does. 473 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 2: So the idea that that somehow, like some hostile some 474 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 2: investor could get a few percentage points and somehow, you know, 475 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: takeover is kind of insane. 476 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: But of course the board. 477 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: Historically has just has basically rubber stamped everything Elon does 478 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 2: because they've understood that a lot of the company's value 479 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 2: is in this guy's personal brand and his personal identity, and. 480 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: It's unclear that Tesla would be better off. 481 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 2: In fact, it's very likely that Tesla's stock price would 482 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 2: you know, sink like a rock if Elon Musk left. 483 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: So like the board is sort of in a bind. 484 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 5: Tesla always discloses the key man risk. They are highly 485 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 5: dependent on his services, and until they have a clearly 486 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 5: named number two, they always will be. And I think 487 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 5: what's interesting about Elon and Tesla is that anytime anyone 488 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 5: has kind of risen to be a potential number two, 489 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 5: that person has been AXD JB Strabo, Zach Kirkhorn, Doug Field, 490 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 5: John McNeil, Jerome Giam like all of the executives who 491 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 5: were always kind of like rising stars. You thought, oh, 492 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 5: maybe this is going to be the COO they've always needed. 493 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 5: Once they've risen to that height, they've always left. And 494 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 5: so I think secession planning remains a huge issue. And basically, yeah, 495 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 5: Elon seems to be indicating like give me more, give 496 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 5: me twenty five percent control, or I'm out of here, 497 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 5: or I'm going to start another startup. And that puts 498 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 5: the board in a really difficult position. 499 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: And like if Elon Musk left, this would cease being 500 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: an AI and robotics company. 501 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: Like right now, Tesla is in a car company. It's 502 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: an Elon Musk company. 503 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 2: Because you know, the shareholders believe that like somehow Elon 504 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 2: Musk is going to you know, you know, swallow up 505 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: other industries. You know, at various points, it's been different things, 506 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: self driving robotaxis or whatever. If if you just put 507 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: an auto industry executive in charge of Tesla, it would 508 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: be worth a lot less, Like way way less. 509 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: It sells fewer cars than. 510 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: The big car companies, and it's worth many times more 511 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 2: and so like that's like Tesla does the value only 512 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 2: makes sense if it's an Elon Musk company. And I 513 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: mean we could we talk about why that is maybe 514 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 2: a questionable assumption, but it's one that investors, you know, 515 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 2: buy and large and brought into at the most. 516 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: Dann Can I just ask a stupid question, like what 517 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: doesn't Ethon's got tons of money? Why did he use 518 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 3: his money to go buy more shares? 519 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: He's not liquid? 520 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 5: I think that's the thing that we've all deduced, right, 521 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 5: Like he he's sort of this oddly he's this odd 522 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 5: person and that he's the wealthiest person on the planet, 523 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 5: but he does not have like liquid assss. He doesn't 524 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 5: have like cash in a bank account. 525 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 3: And he sold all his homes already, so that's not 526 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 3: an option. 527 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, he doesn't. 528 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: He doesn't have homes. 529 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 5: I mean, he's got a jet, but he doesn't have homes. 530 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 5: He doesn't have a yacht he owns, he's running six companies. 531 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 5: He had to sell Tesla shares to complete the deal 532 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 5: on X. Now he's got to service the debt, and 533 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 5: you know he's like basically banging his fists like I 534 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 5: want more control, Like you know, he's bummed out that 535 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 5: he's down to twelve percent. Well that's his own fault, 536 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 5: and it's like just crazy to me too, Like okay, 537 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 5: Like does Tim Cook have five other companies? No, Like 538 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 5: you know, usually the CEO is like singularly focused on 539 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 5: the company in hand, and Elon never is. And yet 540 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 5: that's it's been okay because the stock has largely done 541 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 5: well over these past several years. But like no other 542 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 5: planet does someone basically say I want more control of 543 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 5: this company. But by the way, like I'm not gonna 544 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 5: be a full time CEO and I'm gonna do all 545 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 5: these other things and you're just gonna have to live 546 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 5: with it, all right. 547 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 3: We'll leave it there, Davey, Max Danna, thanks so much 548 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 3: for joining us on this episode of Elenink. 549 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: Always a pleasure, great to be here. 550 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 4: Thanks for having us. 551 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 3: This episode of elin Inc. Was produced by Stacy Wong. 552 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: Naomi Shaven and Rayhan Harmanci are our senior editors. The 553 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: idea for this very show also came from Rayhun Blake 554 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 3: Maples Handles engineering, and we get special editing assistants from 555 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 3: Jeff Grocott. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Inc. 556 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 3: Theme is written and performed by Teka Yazazawa and Alex Sigira. 557 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 3: Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast and our 558 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 3: executive producer. I'm Joel Weber, filling in for David Papodopolis, 559 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 3: who will hope we be back next week. If you 560 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 3: have a minute, please rate and review our show and 561 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 3: we'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.