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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

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Speaker 2: Couples There both coach and author Carolyn Sharp is here.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Carolyn, Hey, Kelly, how are you. I'm doing well. Thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for being here. You and I were

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Speaker 2: just talking. You've written this amazing book for couples and

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Speaker 2: it's called Fired Up, and we're going to get to

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Speaker 2: all of that. But I loved the sentiment you just

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Speaker 2: said about why you even wanted to write this book,

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Speaker 2: because I completely agree with you. So can you repeat

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Speaker 2: that for the listeners?

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Speaker 3: Sure, I will try to do my best at repeating

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Speaker 3: what I said. So you know, part of my hope

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Speaker 3: and dream for this book is that it helped people

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Speaker 3: and help the world, because they think that a lot

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Speaker 3: of what is wrong in the world is a relationship problem.

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Speaker 3: Our inability to connect with others, past our differences, to

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Speaker 3: find common ground, to really understand each other, I think

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Speaker 3: really lacking. So I really hope and dream that it

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Speaker 3: can be of service to the world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're seeing that on such a big scale,

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Speaker 2: I think across the board, and everyone can probably understand

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Speaker 2: where we're coming from with that. Statement, But I agree

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Speaker 2: with you that it starts with the small relationships or

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Speaker 2: the day to day relationships, and that's what this book

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Speaker 2: is all about. Fired Up is about what to do

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Speaker 2: when your relationship gets stale. And I can't tell you.

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Speaker 2: I'm in my forties, so I can't tell you the

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Speaker 2: amount of conversation that I have with friends who have

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Speaker 2: been in long term relationships. I think I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: at that age where people are going, WHOA, I've been

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Speaker 2: in this relationship for a really long time. I love

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Speaker 2: this person, I have a family with this person.

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Speaker 3: But it is stale.

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Speaker 2: So can you talk through why does a relationship get stale?

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Speaker 3: A relationship gets stale because we take our relationships for granted.

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Speaker 3: We think, and you know, this is maybe the fault

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Speaker 3: of Hollywood movies and fairy tales that once you meet

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Speaker 3: your prince or princess charming, things are good. You don't

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Speaker 3: need to work at it, and if it's meant to be,

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Speaker 3: it should be easy, and all of these sorts of ideas,

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Speaker 3: and so we get married or we make a commitment

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Speaker 3: to someone and then we sort of check that off

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Speaker 3: of the list, like, all right, that area of my life.

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Speaker 3: It's taken care of. I can focus on my career,

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Speaker 3: I can focus on my family, whatever it is, and

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Speaker 3: we just let our relationship go on autopilot. And relationships,

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Speaker 3: like anything else that matters to us, takes work, you know.

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Speaker 3: The thing worth doing is something we have to put

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Speaker 3: work into. And people are less intentional with their relationships

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Speaker 3: than they are with other areas of their life, and

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Speaker 3: so that's why it grows stale. We sort of take

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Speaker 3: our eye off the ball, to use a sports metaphor,

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Speaker 3: which I'm the least sporty person in terms of you know,

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Speaker 3: professional sports. But we take our eye off the ball

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Speaker 3: and focus on other things, and then a relationship goes

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Speaker 3: to sleep.

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Speaker 2: Right you say in a book, you know, life is

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Speaker 2: full of constant stress, and it is. So we're being

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Speaker 2: pulled in a million different directions all the time, especially nowadays.

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Speaker 2: You can just even get on your phone and be

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Speaker 2: pulled into a million different directions. And it's so interesting

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Speaker 2: to me though, because it's we complain about it being stale,

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Speaker 2: but it's almost as if the place that we feel

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Speaker 2: the safest, like you said, is the place that we

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Speaker 2: kind of disregard the most. Why does our brain do

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Speaker 2: that well?

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Speaker 3: I think it is an aspect of creating that safety

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Speaker 3: and knowing, Okay, I've got my partner here, They're gonna

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Speaker 3: be here no matter what. We make that promise, and

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Speaker 3: so we take that promise at face value, like it's

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Speaker 3: it's good here, and so I can focus my energy

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Speaker 3: on other things. And I say this to my couples

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Speaker 3: who have kids. You know, the kids rage against us

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Speaker 3: because they feel safe here. We've created a saner where

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Speaker 3: they can rage against us. So it is a beautiful

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Speaker 3: thing in a way that our partner knows that they

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Speaker 3: can count on us to always be there. But we

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Speaker 3: need to not use that, you know, just like we

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Speaker 3: teach our kids. You know, just because I'm safe doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean you get to talk to me like that. Just

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Speaker 3: because our relationship is we have set the intention, we

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Speaker 3: have made the commitment to be together for the rest

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Speaker 3: of our lives, doesn't mean we can just you know,

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Speaker 3: take it for granted. Take it. I was about to

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Speaker 3: use another metaphor, take the hands off the wheel and

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Speaker 3: let it drive itself. I'm just going to use seven

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Speaker 3: different metaphors.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 2: I love a metaphor.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't mean we should stop paying attention to it. But

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Speaker 3: you know, the other reason I think that we do

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Speaker 3: that is relationships are hard. I think that they're the

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Speaker 3: hardest thing we do as adults. And you know, we're

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Speaker 3: living as mirrors of each other. We're seeing each other

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Speaker 3: and living with each other and seeing each other's flaws

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Speaker 3: and having our flaws reflected back to us, and that's uncomfortable,

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Speaker 3: andicularly in the pandemic when we were in lockdown for

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Speaker 3: as long as we were gulls. We're spending way too

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Speaker 3: much time together and we're avoiding all the hard conversations.

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Speaker 3: And I think that really became a habit where we're

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Speaker 3: not going to talk about the fact that you're on

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Speaker 3: my nerves. We're just going to turn to our phones

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Speaker 3: and look at TikTok for the time being. Whatever it becomes,

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Speaker 3: we'll see, we'll see. And it just became easier. It

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Speaker 3: became a new habit of avoiding having the real conversations

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Speaker 3: that we need to take care of our relationship.

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Speaker 2: God, there's so many things in that statement than the

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Speaker 2: last paragraph that you just said that I want to

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Speaker 2: touch on. But you'd said one thing about our partners

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Speaker 2: on our nerves. Is there something more to understanding why

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Speaker 2: your partner is on your nerves.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's always more to understand, always, always, and the

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Speaker 3: more we understand in our relationship, the deeper and richer

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Speaker 3: they are. So you know that habit that is annoying.

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Speaker 3: This is a fun process that I go through with couples,

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a game that I play of

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Speaker 3: understanding why does it drive my partner crazy that I

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Speaker 3: hang the toilet paper one way and they hang it

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Speaker 3: the other way? What is that really about? And that's

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Speaker 3: such a silly example.

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Speaker 2: No, it's the perfect example because my boyfriend and I

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Speaker 2: have been in this exact archide. That's why I started

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Speaker 2: laughing this second you said it. It is literally the

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Speaker 2: thing that we have been talking about them as. It's

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Speaker 2: a kind of a joke between us. But those are

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Speaker 2: the kind of things that come up, right, the absolute

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Speaker 2: tiny things.

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Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And it's you know, when I do presentations

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Speaker 3: out in the community, I will get volunteers, whether it's

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Speaker 3: an actual couple or two strangers or two colleagues, will

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Speaker 3: come up with something stupid like that so or something

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Speaker 3: small like that and have them act that out. And

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Speaker 3: always the richness of what's underneath that of because there's

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Speaker 3: two levels of communication. There's content and process, and content

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Speaker 3: is don't hang it this way, hang it that way.

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Speaker 3: That's the facts or the data of the situation. Process

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Speaker 3: is the deeper level of meaning, what it means to

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Speaker 3: you when I hang it the way I do, or

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Speaker 3: what you know, so on and so forth, And getting

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Speaker 3: to that meaning provides so much richness to the relationship.

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Speaker 3: To understand that when I hang it the way you

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Speaker 3: don't like it tells it means to you that I'm

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Speaker 3: not listening to you, that I don't value you, that

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Speaker 3: what's important to you isn't important to me. What you're

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Speaker 3: making that meaning out of me hanging the toilet paper

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Speaker 3: in the way I am, well, yeah, because otherwise, if

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Speaker 3: it didn't mean something to you, you wouldn't get annoyed,

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't get upset. And so helping couples focus their

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Speaker 3: energy to why does this matter in the first place

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Speaker 3: is like a mind blowing experience for them. And this

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Speaker 3: can happen in our romantic relationships, that can happen in

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Speaker 3: our friendships with our siblings, whoever. And that's what I'm

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Speaker 3: you know, that's the way I'm trying to help people

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Speaker 3: in the world is to understand it. Understand that person

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Speaker 3: that you have these great differences with that make you

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Speaker 3: so mad. If you could understand what it means to

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Speaker 3: that person, maybe you would help you connect with them.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to be best friends, you don't have

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Speaker 3: to agree, but you can connect in a way where

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Speaker 3: now you can be polite, you can be kind, you

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Speaker 3: could be compassionate to this person that has these differences.

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Speaker 3: But that is so hard right now, and I think

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Speaker 3: we're all losing as a result. Yeah, I did go

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Speaker 3: off on a tangent.

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Speaker 2: No, that's I think that's all very very important. And

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking as you were talking. I always

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Speaker 2: say that relationships are my greatest teachers, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's true for most of us if we're actually paying attention.

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Speaker 2: But the reason I say that they're they're my greatest

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Speaker 2: teachers is not because of necessarily what I learned about

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Speaker 2: the other person. But it's what I learned about me,

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Speaker 2: and I think that it's so important and it's a

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Speaker 2: huge piece that we miss and I think this is

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Speaker 2: what the book really touches on in such a great way.

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Speaker 2: But whatever is coming up, like if I am bothered,

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Speaker 2: it's about me. That was the biggest statement I've had

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Speaker 2: to learn over the years, that's going, Wait, if the

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Speaker 2: toilet paper roll is annoying me so much, why the

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Speaker 2: whys behind it are so important? And that's what this

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Speaker 2: book really really touches on. And I think that is

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Speaker 2: the most helpful tool in a relationship ever. So you

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Speaker 2: give this whole four step process into really diving into

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Speaker 2: the whys. So I kind of want to talk through

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Speaker 2: a little bit of that without giving the book away

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Speaker 2: fully for the listeners, though, to understand, let's get into

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Speaker 2: this first step and a lot of it is understanding you,

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Speaker 2: So can you talk through a little bit about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, the first step in this is that foundational piece

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Speaker 3: of understanding the why of being in the relationship in

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Speaker 3: the first place. What is the purpose of us being together,

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Speaker 3: of us being friends or us being partners? Why? And

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Speaker 3: couples default to it's love. You know, we're together for love,

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Speaker 3: and that's fantastic and that's beautiful. But anyone that's been

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Speaker 3: in a relationship that's lasted more than even a few

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Speaker 3: months knows that that love feeling, that love sentiment isn't constant.

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Speaker 3: If you live with another person, you especially have insight

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Speaker 3: into this that you love your partner, but you can

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Speaker 3: also hate your partner at the same time. So you

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Speaker 3: need a purpose beyond love to get you through those

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Speaker 3: hard moments when you want to run out the door

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Speaker 3: or throttle them or whatever. Not talking literally obviously, but

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Speaker 3: you know through those moments you need to have that purpose,

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Speaker 3: that understanding of why are we together? What is what

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Speaker 3: are we doing here together? That is beyond just being

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Speaker 3: in love with each other. So that's the first part

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Speaker 3: that they think it's so critical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the foundation of the why of the whole

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Speaker 2: relationship in general, you's had some one such an important

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Speaker 2: thing about those those butterfly feeling or whatever. Like we all,

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Speaker 2: if you've been in any sort of long term relationship,

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Speaker 2: you know that those are the things that die off,

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Speaker 2: which then in turn makes the relationship feel stale. So

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Speaker 2: if we're realizing that that is where we are, and

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Speaker 2: we're getting to the place of like we're really stale,

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Speaker 2: the foundation feels rocky, is it actually rocky or do

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Speaker 2: we how do we know that? Like, how do we

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Speaker 2: know if the relationship is not serving us anymore or

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Speaker 2: that it's just stale.

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Speaker 3: The thing that I tell couples any problem, any Rockiness

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Speaker 3: can be fixed in a relationship as long as it's

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Speaker 3: not abuse, as long as both people want it. So

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Speaker 3: if it's rocky, you can make it not rocky again.

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Speaker 3: If you both choose to, it stops serving you. If

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Speaker 3: either one or both of you have you decided I

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Speaker 3: don't want this anymore, that's the place where I can't

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Speaker 3: help anybody, and couples can't really be helped. If you've

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Speaker 3: decided to leave the relationship, you know, physically or psychically mentally,

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Speaker 3: then the relationship is over. It's really a decision that

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Speaker 3: you make where depth and growth comes from recommitting, choosing

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Speaker 3: again to reinvest in the relationship and decide to figure

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Speaker 3: out why are we having this rockiness, Why are we

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Speaker 3: having this problem? Why is this challenge here? And certainly again,

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Speaker 3: if there is abuse happening in the relationship, physical emotional

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Speaker 3: in the relationship obviously needs to end. But beyond that

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Speaker 3: kind of mistreatment, real intentional mistreatment, anything can be fixed

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Speaker 3: as long as both people are invested in getting to

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Speaker 3: the other side and doing the work to get there.

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Speaker 2: When you're doing therapy, I know you've done couples therapy

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Speaker 2: for years and coaching, how often are you seeing people

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Speaker 2: just come in and want to fight each other versus

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Speaker 2: actually get to the why.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I see people that want to fight

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Speaker 3: say that that is their intention of I'm gonna I

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Speaker 3: just want to fight with you. If they are seemingly

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Speaker 3: wanting to fight, it's because they're scared or they don't

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Speaker 3: feel safe. And I'm differentiating between that in the sense

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Speaker 3: that I don't feel safe to be myself, and so

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Speaker 3: I need to keep this armor up. I need to

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Speaker 3: keep focusing on what you're saying or how you're saying it.

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Speaker 3: I need to keep being loud or aggressive, and I

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Speaker 3: just mean in terms of tone or energy, not physical.

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Speaker 3: It's because I don't feel safe or because I'm scared.

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Speaker 3: If I let that guard down, I'm gonna be lost,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be left, I'm going to be vulnerable,

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Speaker 3: or all that sort of stuff, which is a similar

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Speaker 3: vibe or a similar tone to not feeling safe, but

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Speaker 3: a little bit a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: So this is where the next step would come in

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Speaker 2: of understanding all of these needs and all of the

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Speaker 2: things that are coming up within us. And I want

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Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about that because I feel

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Speaker 2: like you can go on your own journey of self exploration.

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Speaker 2: But until you get into a relationship, I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: you can go as deep. Like you can only get

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Speaker 2: so far by yourself, I guess as my point. And

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Speaker 2: then you get into a relationship, and like you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 2: everything is mirrored back to us, whether that's the good

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Speaker 2: parts of us or the things that were coming up

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Speaker 2: feeling really defensive about like you just mentioned, where we

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Speaker 2: might not be feeling safe and so we go into

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Speaker 2: attack or defend mode. So how important is it to

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Speaker 2: understand your own shit, your own background, your own like

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Speaker 2: childhood wounding and all of those pieces.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's critically important. I think together in

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Speaker 3: a relationship, you want to create understanding for both of you.

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Speaker 3: Usually the sort of safest way in is to have

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Speaker 3: partners focus on understanding their partner, and then their partner

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Speaker 3: understands them, and by that you create a create anvironment

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Speaker 3: of deep understanding and acceptance. That's what you're trying to

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Speaker 3: get to is accepting each other as people, not accepting

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Speaker 3: every annoying behavior or every difficult behavior, but accepting the

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Speaker 3: person underneath that and accepting that you know, really every

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Speaker 3: behavior has a cause, has that why of you know,

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Speaker 3: you're you're hanging the toilet paper for this reason, or

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Speaker 3: you're yelling for this other reason, or you're walking out

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Speaker 3: of the room for this third reason. And understanding that

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Speaker 3: why helps your partner know, Okay, I see what you're

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Speaker 3: trying to do, and let's together figure out a different

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Speaker 3: way to get that need met. So I think it's

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Speaker 3: critically important, and I think you spoke to it so beautifully.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've had people who've left a relationship and

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Speaker 3: then they come in to me as a therapist and

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Speaker 3: they say, I'm going to be single for a while

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Speaker 3: because I want to learn how to be in relationship.

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Speaker 3: And I chuckle lovingly, because you can't learn how to

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Speaker 3: be in a relationship by yourself. We learn relationships through relationship.

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Speaker 3: That's how it's done. That's how we started as infants

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Speaker 3: learning about relationships from the relationships we had with our

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Speaker 3: caregivers and between our caregivers and in our family in general.

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Speaker 3: So through this relationship we learn the most about each other.

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Speaker 3: It is through those reflections and through those deep conversations

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Speaker 3: that we really learn about our shit. And it's through

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Speaker 3: creating that safety with each other to understand, Okay, this

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Speaker 3: is hard, this is messy, This makes me uncomfortable, But

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Speaker 3: we're committed to really creating a deep rich conversation, a

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Speaker 3: deep rich environment, and it's in that that you have

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Speaker 3: the most vibrant relationship. We have that understanding and that acceptance.

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Speaker 2: This whole podcast is basically me talking through different two

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Speaker 2: different facilitators, different therapists, any sort of person doing any

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Speaker 2: sort of soul seeking. And the reason I even got

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Speaker 2: on that journey is because my relationships weren't working. And

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Speaker 2: so when I'm having conversations sometimes outside of this podcast

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Speaker 2: with friends, just people I meet, whatever, and there isn't

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Speaker 2: this understanding of that connection where it's like, if I

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Speaker 2: don't learn about me and learn how to communicate about me,

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Speaker 2: it will manifest in my relationships. And for me, it

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Speaker 2: was about the relationships I was choosing. It was how

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Speaker 2: I was interacting in them. Can you explain that to

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Speaker 2: listeners in a way or is digestible because sometimes I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure I'm communicating it properly or sure?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know what you're speaking to is really about

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Speaker 3: attachment theory, and it's about an attachment theory. To be

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Speaker 3: really simplistic, it's how we are trained to be a relationship.

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Speaker 3: We attached to our caregivers, to our parents. We are

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Speaker 3: dependent on them, and through that relationship we learn about

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Speaker 3: the world and what's safe to do, what's not safe

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Speaker 3: to do, how we're supposed to feel, how we're supposed

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Speaker 3: to express or not express our feelings. We are trained

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Speaker 3: and given a style of relating based on what we

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Speaker 3: are taught is the right way to be, the wrong

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Speaker 3: way to be, the safe way to be, the unsafe

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Speaker 3: way to be. And then when we are adults, we

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Speaker 3: create new attachments somewhat with our friends, although those are

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Speaker 3: really sort of different because there isn't as much writing

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Speaker 3: on them as our partnerships, our romantic partnerships. And so

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Speaker 3: in that choosing, we are looking for and there's some

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Speaker 3: research here that is super fascinating. When we are sort

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Speaker 3: of hooking up quote unquote, our brain is looking for

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Speaker 3: genetic difference because hooking up is about spreading genetic seeds,

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Speaker 3: so to speak.

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Speaker 2: So exciting to us.

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Speaker 3: That's why it's so exciting, because we are you know,

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Speaker 3: we've got all the passion, we've got all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Because as a species, we're looking to spread, diversify the

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Speaker 3: makeup of the species. Because a healthy species is a

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Speaker 3: diverse species. Because you know, cousins having sex with cousins,

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Speaker 3: you're going to have someone that's going to have some

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Speaker 3: pretty significant genetic challenges because there isn't enough to diversity

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Speaker 3: in that species. Well, you know, we're not supposed to

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Speaker 3: hook up with our brothers.

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Speaker 4: Gross sorry, ay, that's my brother's name anyway, And so

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Speaker 4: when we're hooking up, we're looking for genetic difference.

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Speaker 3: But then flip to six to eighteen months later, which

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Speaker 3: is when we make the switch to pair bonding or

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Speaker 3: mating for life, our brain switches to look for genetic stimilarity,

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Speaker 3: what feels and looks like what we are used to.

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Speaker 3: So then we're looking for what we came to understand

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Speaker 3: was normal in relationship. So you would look for the dynamics.

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Speaker 3: And this is where the expression I married my mother

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Speaker 3: or I married my father's sort of thing comes from.

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Speaker 3: Although it's not that linear connection, it's more about the

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Speaker 3: dynamic you experienced growing up. So if you grew up

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Speaker 3: in a family where performance was the norm, like you

366
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Speaker 3: had to perform and be the best in order to

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Speaker 3: get acknowledgment, that's what you would choose in a dynamic

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Speaker 3: in your relationship, or a high conflict environment where everybody

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Speaker 3: you know, like I grew up in New York State

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Speaker 3: and sarcasm and directnan blunt directness was the thing. And

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Speaker 3: then I married someone from southern California where directness not

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Speaker 3: the thing, and we had to navigate that because my

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Speaker 3: directness was a little much for him, so on and

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Speaker 3: so forth. But we reenact the dynamic that we experience

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Speaker 3: in childhood of you know, my husband feeling criticized or

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Speaker 3: like he had to perform, and me feeling like I

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Speaker 3: had to take care of myself. You know, all of

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Speaker 3: these things become re enacted, and so that's why people choose,

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Speaker 3: you know, feel like they're you know, they choose badly.

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Speaker 3: You don't choose badly. You choose a dynamic that is

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Speaker 3: familiar and through in each relationship, getting healthier working through

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Speaker 3: with that partner. Alright, I think I'm re enacting something

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Speaker 3: helped me not do that anymore. Yeah, you evolve past

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Speaker 3: that such that you're no longer looking for that.

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Speaker 2: I love that explanation because I used to say my

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Speaker 2: picker is broken, and I quickly have realized that doesn't

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Speaker 2: help me at all to say it that way, and actually,

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Speaker 2: my picker is doing exactly what it's supposed to be

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Speaker 2: doing for me to heal. So it's it's literally picking

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Speaker 2: the person that's going to trigger me the most so

391
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Speaker 2: that I finally address what is still unhealed within me. Yep,

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Speaker 2: which was like mind blowing to realize, even though it

393
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Speaker 2: seems really simple. I thought, oh oh, And the more

394
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Speaker 2: I talk to myself in the way of like my

395
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Speaker 2: picker is broken, the worse it gets for me because

396
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Speaker 2: it's only taking a shot at my self esteem and

397
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Speaker 2: making me feel like I'm so messed up beyond repair

398
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Speaker 2: that I shouldn't even be in relationships, like your patients

399
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: said or your clients said, yeap, like I'm going to

400
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Speaker 2: go off and fix myself or something like we're something

401
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Speaker 2: to be fixed. Yeah.

402
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Speaker 3: Right, And that to that question earlier of you know,

403
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Speaker 3: is there a point that the rockiness indicates that we

404
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 3: should move on? Yeah, we will regulate. Tell couples you

405
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 3: picked each other for a reason, right, because there's opportunity

406
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Speaker 3: for heal to heal. If you choose to leave this relationship,

407
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Speaker 3: chances are you're going to have this exact same dynamic

408
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Speaker 3: in your next relationship. And That's that's what happens over

409
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Speaker 3: and over and over again, of like, oh, few, I'm

410
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Speaker 3: out of that relationship, I don't have to deal with addiction,

411
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Speaker 3: or I don't have to deal with yelling anymore, or

412
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Speaker 3: a high conflict, and then it shows up in the

413
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Speaker 3: next relationship. It looks a little different, but it's usually

414
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Speaker 3: the same experience in relationship with not feeling safe, not

415
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Speaker 3: feeling good enough, not feeling loved, not feeling wanted, whatever

416
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Speaker 3: it is that you felt in that previous relationship. Unless

417
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Speaker 3: you figured out how to not do that anymore, chances

418
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Speaker 3: are it's going to come alive again for next relationship.

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Speaker 2: Right And for me, it was always actually worse like

420
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Speaker 2: or bigger. The magnitude of how it was showing up

421
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Speaker 2: was bigger because it was trying to get my attention,

422
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Speaker 2: Like yes, the things inside of me were like, Okay,

423
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Speaker 2: we got to really work this stuff out. It's time.

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Speaker 2: And so then I would pick someone else who, like

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Speaker 2: you said, looked very All of my partners have looked

426
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Speaker 2: so different on the outside. Like if you looked at

427
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Speaker 2: my partners from a physical perspective, you would say, she

428
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Speaker 2: doesn't have a type, but I have a type or

429
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Speaker 2: I had a type, you know, and so until I

430
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Speaker 2: was ready to do the bigger healing, it was going

431
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Speaker 2: to keep showing up. I do think it's important. I

432
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Speaker 2: know you touched on this earlier. For me, I'm in

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Speaker 2: a relationship now with a partner who wants to do

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Speaker 2: the work on himself and with me, and so it's

435
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: been a beautiful experience. I think we met each other

436
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: at a time in both of our lives where we're like, okay,

437
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 2: jigs up, like this is happening. We've done enough of

438
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 2: our own healing to know that there is this about

439
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: me that is ready to be worked out and so

440
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: we can work together. But then I've been in relationships

441
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: in the past where it was never going to be

442
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: that because the other person wasn't in that space. So

443
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: it is very important. I just want to say that

444
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 2: for the listeners, like and you can't force someone to

445
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: be ready unless they they want to themselves. I spent

446
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: many years trying. I'm just trying to save you, guys.

447
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: The time that I wasted. It felt like, yep, yep.

448
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 3: There's only one person we can change, and that's ourselves.

449
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 3: And the amount of time couples waste trying to get

450
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 3: their partner to function more like themselves or force them

451
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 3: to do the work. You can't do that. Mel Robbins

452
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: talks about this beautifully, you know, in the sort of

453
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 3: let them her new book, Let them, you know, let

454
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 3: your partner be your partner. It's critically important. That's that

455
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 3: acceptance piece. We can inspire our partner toward growth. We

456
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: can't force or arm wrestle them into it. It is

457
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: about recognizing, Okay, And usually this is true, I haven't

458
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 3: made it safe for my partner to want to do

459
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: the work with me because I'm implying, because usually it's

460
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 3: a you would really benefit from therapy, which translates to

461
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: the partner as my partner thinks I'm broken, My partner

462
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 3: thinks I'm a problem, and then they get defensive, and

463
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: then they don't feel invited and they don't feel accepted.

464
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 3: They feel shamed, and who feels shamed and then wants

465
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 3: to go open that up versus an invitation of I

466
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 3: really want to have a richer relationship with you. I

467
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: really feel like I could learn a lot through you.

468
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 3: Let's take on this journey together. That sounds different from

469
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: we need therapy and you have to you have to

470
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 3: do this with me, or you need this program, or

471
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 3: you need to read this book. I don't recommend that

472
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: for anybody.

473
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: I've done all of those.

474
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: Earlier. Yeah, no, it never does, no, never.

475
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: The second piece of that one for me was always

476
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: when people show you who you are, believe them, because

477
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: I would be like, yeah, I don't really know, like

478
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: you know, I think maybe if we just have one

479
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 2: conversation that hits right, this person won't feel that way

480
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: or they'll change or whatever. And I was trying to

481
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: actually change who the person was. And that's no, it's

482
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: really again that was about me and my own stuff.

483
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 2: When you get into the next step, one of the

484
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 2: main pieces that I just genuinely think is so massively

485
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: important repair so conflict and repair and relationships. So we're

486
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: getting so in the book, like if we're walking through

487
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: the steps a little bit, you decide what you know,

488
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: the foundation of the relationship comes up, why are we

489
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: in this? When you really get to know your own stuff,

490
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: how that's impacting your relationship, then you get to this

491
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: piece that's like, okay, well how do we work together?

492
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 2: And I don't think this has talked about enough in

493
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: our society. The importance of repair. The more I've learned

494
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: about it, the more I've experienced it, the more I'm like,

495
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: this is the most crucial piece to all of my

496
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 2: relationships ever, Like it is literally it, It's the thing.

497
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 2: So what does repair look like? Because I just genuinely

498
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: don't think anyone even knows conflict and to repair.

499
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: Yep. Well, And the piece that I think is so

500
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: crucial to mention is we don't learn from everything going well.

501
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: We don't learn from comfort and things being perfect. We

502
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: learned from mistakes and failures. And mistakes and failures are

503
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 3: not what harm relationships. I mean, certainly, of course there

504
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 3: are certain mistakes that are unequivocally harmful. But it is

505
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 3: not really the mistakes harmer relationship. It's the absence of repair.

506
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: Because repair says to you, you're more important to me

507
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: than being right, You're more important to me than being infallible.

508
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 3: I want you to feel safe, and so I'm going

509
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 3: to take accountability and I'm going to make sure you're

510
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 3: O okay as a result of me doing that dumb thing,

511
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 3: which we're all human. We all do dumb shit every day.

512
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 3: You know, we're bumbling around through life and we're you know,

513
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: stepping on each other's toes all over the place when

514
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: we share life together. So it's not the mistakes that matter,

515
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: it's the repair. And repair is about and you know,

516
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: I go through and it's my editor's favorite part, the

517
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 3: non repairs, the non apologies that exist for us. But

518
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: repair is about taking accountability. Well, first, it's about understanding

519
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: the impact the harm had on the part on my partner.

520
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: So for me to hear I see that you're hurt,

521
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: I want to understand your experience of this hurt and

522
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: taking the time to really understand what is it about

523
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 3: my action that caused harm to you because we can

524
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: rush through it. One of the things that happens is

525
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: we rush through it because it's very vulnerable to make

526
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: a repair, well, rush through it thinking all right, well

527
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: it was that I raised my voice at you. I'm

528
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: sorry I yelled at you, and before I take the

529
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: time to really understand, oh no, it wasn't. It wasn't

530
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: you raising your voice. It was you saying X to

531
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: me that really made me feel bad about myself. Oh

532
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: I didn't. I wouldn't have known that. So the first

533
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,239
Speaker 3: thing is in really understanding what is it that I

534
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: did that was most impactful to you. Then it's taking

535
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 3: accountability of owning I did that. And couples get stuck

536
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: here because they will debate that content piece of is

537
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 3: that what I actually said or is that what I meant?

538
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: Or it did I was I really late toward you know,

539
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff, and it's a waste of

540
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 3: time to debate that first piece of understanding what is

541
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: it that hurts you? Will help you know how to

542
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: take accountability. I'm sorry I said that, or if if

543
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 3: you've really if your brain is really stuck on me,

544
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: that's not what I said or that's not how I

545
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: said it, Then just apologize for hurting the partner. Sorry

546
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: I hurt you, So take take accountability, and then check

547
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 3: in and make sure that does your partner feel better?

548
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: You've seen it, And the sort of metric I use

549
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: is your partner look better, same or worse? And if

550
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: it's better or same, all right, you're in the in

551
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: the right neighborhood. If if worse, all right, you got

552
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 3: to you got to take another swing at it to

553
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 3: make sure that your partner feels better. And so that's

554
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: that's the very quick and dirty sort of explanation of

555
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 3: what a repair takes. But the important piece to make

556
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: sure to mention is that a successful repair takes two people. Yes,

557
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: it takes both the person who's injured, who's made the mistake,

558
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 3: and it takes the receiver of the repair for it

559
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: to go well. Because there is a tendency and I

560
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: have seen this increase in the last four years, four

561
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: to six years, to rub people's faces in the mistakes,

562
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 3: rub their face, the difference to say, yeah, you did

563
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 3: hurt me, You're a total jerk, Why did you do that?

564
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: You blah bahue blah, you know, and that creates no safety. Yeah,

565
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: repair is the most powerful thing we can do in

566
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: relationship for all the reasons I mentioned before that it

567
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: creates safety, it creates healing. Because many of us did

568
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 3: not ever receive repair from our parents, because you know,

569
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: lots of generations before us were taught you know, children

570
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: are to be seen and not heard, and you know,

571
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff. So we didn't experience repair.

572
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 3: We didn't witness repair because lots of people, if they made,

573
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: lots of couples, if they make mistakes, don't do it

574
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: in front of their children, then don't repair in front

575
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 3: of their children. So kids haven't seen it, so they

576
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 3: don't know what it feels like, and so it's incredibly

577
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: healing to receive the repair. And it also creates safety

578
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: to be imperfect in the relationship, which is what we

579
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 3: all need because nobody's perfect. We grow through mistakes. So

580
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 3: you want it to be safe in your relationship to

581
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: fuck up excuse my language. And so you need your

582
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: partner to be safe to receive a repair. And so

583
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 3: the only appropriate response, the only appropriate response to a

584
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: genuine attempt at repair your partner genuinely means to make

585
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: it better. The only appropriate response is thank you. That's it,

586
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 3: not you're forgiven, because I don't want anybody forgiving anybody

587
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 3: before they actually feel healed. But you want to first

588
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 3: acknowledge the effort being made on your behalf. And it's

589
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: vulnerable to acknowledge. I screwed up and I hurt you

590
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 3: and I'm sorry. You want to make it safe for

591
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: your partner to do it because it's so important for

592
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 3: the two of you to be able to practice this.

593
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: You have to make it safe by saying thank you

594
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: for trying to heal this, Yeah, I love pause, and

595
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: then talk about it. Then more of like I still don't.

596
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: I'm still hurt, I'm still upset. Can we talk about

597
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: it's more? Yes, but wait, first, applaud your partner for

598
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: the attempt.

599
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: Well, and that creates the safety right when you can

600
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: see that your partner is sitting there willing to hear

601
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: you out. I think a huge thing for all of

602
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: us is just we just want to be heard on

603
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: most occasions. And then the conflict probably came up because

604
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: of two people, something within what we've already touched on,

605
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: like something from the past, two different perspectives, seeing the

606
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: world through two completely different lenses. Like with two people,

607
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: you're going to have conflict. I don't think we talk

608
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: about that enough either. It's like two people are never

609
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: going to see the world exactly the same, They're never

610
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: going to have exactly the same needs you have to

611
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: learn each other. But these kind of situations where you're

612
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: having a conflict doesn't have to mean World War three.

613
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: It's actually a time to take their relationship even deeper

614
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 2: and to do healing from whatever this is you know

615
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: immediately coming from. And I'm so glad that you brought

616
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 2: up that it's gotten worse in the last four to

617
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: six years, because I think that's what we're seeing on

618
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: a macro level. It's like we can't get over we

619
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: can't come together on anything politically, on anything whatever, because

620
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: the second one person says huh or it's proven that

621
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: maybe something wasn't the full truth, the other side of

622
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 2: whatever is just wanting to rub everyone's face in it.

623
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: Nobody's just going, hey, let's just talk about this, like

624
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: let's figure out where we went wrong or why this

625
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: came up, or why you thought this and I thought that.

626
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: It's like literally, ha ha told you so, over and

627
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: over in a cycle and a loop. And so we're

628
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 2: never going to get out of it if we don't

629
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: stop doing that.

630
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. I won, I won, I want, I want

631
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 3: exactly and I will. I will use any ammunition. I

632
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 3: will use any information, whether it's valid or not information.

633
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: I will gather whatever data data a quote unquote to

634
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 3: prove my point and to win over you. And it

635
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: is the saddest thing versus being curious and interested in

636
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: what other would people who are different than us think,

637
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 3: believe why they think, and believe that what that might

638
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: be coming from. There's so much power and benefit and

639
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 3: in doing that, and yet and it you know it

640
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: isn't happening at home. You know, this is what I'm

641
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: saying with couples, that they're not curious, they're not being

642
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: interested in what is causing this conflect and the you know,

643
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 3: the the other truth that I would I would repeat

644
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: over and over again ntil I'm blue in the face.

645
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 3: Is every dynamic, Almost every dynamic, nearly every single one,

646
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: takes two people to exist. So any problem that exists

647
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 3: in a relationship, there are two people participating in that.

648
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 3: Certainly there are some exclusions, but almost all. And and

649
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: you know, when the stakes happen, if you really pay

650
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 3: attention and are curious and interested, you can trace it back.

651
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 3: I'll have so many couples come in and go, this

652
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 3: came out of nowhere, all right. That fight that you're

653
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 3: saying just blew up out of nowhere actually started like

654
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 3: four days before when you didn't kiss your partner goodbye,

655
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 3: and then when you were on your phone when they

656
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 3: asked you a question. This adds up over time, and

657
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 3: so then yelling at you out of nowhere and calling

658
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 3: you a name or or using a tone isn't out

659
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: of nowhere. And if you trace it back, you can

660
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 3: find your part in the process as well, and that's

661
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: where the real growing and the deepening and the intimacy

662
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 3: comes is really looking at how could we make this better,

663
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 3: How could we make this healthier? How could we prevent

664
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,479
Speaker 3: that fight from ever happening again? You can everybody? Can

665
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 3: you know?

666
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: I think you touched on something so brilliant at the

667
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: beginning of this that we think we can just get married,

668
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 2: We can build this life, this little fantasy, the fairy tale, whatever,

669
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: white picket fence, that is what we have been taught

670
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: is the goal. And then it stops, or growing stops,

671
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: and my understanding of life has completely changed. And so

672
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: I wonder what you feel about this. But like, I

673
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: don't think we ever stop growing our learning, or if

674
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: we do, that is to a detriment of our life,

675
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: our relationships, everything. Like, the more you can stay open

676
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: to this is a constant, growing, evolving situation, then the

677
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: more your life will benefit. Do you feel that way.

678
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 3: One hundred percent? I mean, it's it's science, it's everything

679
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: that you know. If you are a gym goer, you

680
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 3: don't stop going to the gym. Once you reach bench

681
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: pressing whatever two hundred pounds, You're not gonna be able

682
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: to maintain that strength unless you work at it. If

683
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: you're a gardener, you know, you plant a garden. If

684
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 3: you don't weed that garden, if you don't water that garden,

685
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: if you don't fertilize that garden, it will stop producing,

686
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: right and you know after one season, you have to

687
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: We have to continually practice our skills to keep growing.

688
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 3: And as humans, we're continually changing every day something different,

689
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, like I'm on the I'm on

690
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 3: the I'm on the slow downhill and you know, in

691
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 3: my fifties, so I'm you know, slowing down as you know,

692
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 3: working to keep up on the peloton so that I

693
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 3: don't slow down too fast. But you know, everything is

694
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 3: changing in my body, everything is changing, my husband's body.

695
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 3: We have to reeate to the changes that go and

696
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 3: the societal changes that are happening. My field has changed

697
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: as a result of you know, now mental health care

698
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 3: is largely online. You know, I have the majority of

699
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 3: therapies happening online now still happens in person, but it's

700
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: you know that has evolved as we grow and learn

701
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: more about the human brain that evolves podcasts, you know,

702
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 3: social media. Everything is changing around the politics, you know,

703
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: good golly, all these things that are changing as a

704
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: result of the political climate in the US and beyond,

705
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 3: and so that impacts our relationship and impacts us individually

706
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: and impacts our relationship, and if we're not adapting to that,

707
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: our relationship goes to sleep.

708
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the fourth step gets to what I think

709
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: everyone would probably get into couple's therapy thinking was the

710
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 2: whole reason they were there. Yeah, And that's intimacy, sex,

711
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: the passion, And that is what my friends are coming

712
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: to me saying, like, oh, we haven't had sex and

713
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: however long, or the passion's dead, and our I think

714
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: quick response to that is maybe I need to get

715
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: a divorce, or maybe this relationship's over and people quit.

716
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: And actually, all of the little steps that we've talked

717
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: about up until now get to probably the deepest version

718
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: of that that you could ever desire. But it doesn't

719
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 2: look easier, pretty, or any of that stuff. So let's

720
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 2: get into that a little bit. Are you seeing people

721
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: just want to skip the step and go, why can't

722
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: I have the sex I was having at the beginning

723
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: of this relationship? Like that died, so like it must

724
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: be over right?

725
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, yes, they absolutely want to skip the step,

726
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 3: and I drive everybody crazy by making them do the

727
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 3: steps right. You know, I'm always careful to acknowledge just

728
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 3: because I'm making you do the work doesn't mean you

729
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 3: can't be curious about, be interested in, and be introducing

730
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: play and fun and mystery into your relationship even if

731
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 3: it's not sexual, way and fun, and in doing so,

732
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: you may wake that part of your relationship up. The

733
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: best sex, the best romance, the best intimacy is going

734
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 3: to come as a result of doing all of these things.

735
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: And ps, it's also those same components that help you

736
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: have the really rich, fun, amazing, mind blowing sex. You know,

737
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: if you feel accepted and understood sexually, if you are

738
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 3: understood about what you what you like, what feels good,

739
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: what turns you on, all of that sort of stuff,

740
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 3: sex gets better. And so many couples skip that step

741
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: communication knowing how to talk about that and and some

742
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: of our puritanical roots way back when to the to

743
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: the country's beginning, really monkey with our ability to understand

744
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 3: and our ability to make safe acceptance for who we

745
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 3: are sexually to one another. That you know your two

746
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 3: consenting adults really anything goes, But how do we talk

747
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 3: about it when we've been trained that sex is only

748
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: for making babies, or you shouldn't do X Y or Z,

749
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,479
Speaker 3: or that's dirty or that's wrong or whatever. It really

750
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: monkey's with our capacity to understand ourselves sexually and understand

751
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 3: each other. And so really creating the safety and a

752
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 3: bubble for the for the two of you, for your

753
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 3: relationship really enhances that where you can have way more

754
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 3: fun than you've ever been having. And also just accepting

755
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 3: that things change over time. You know what, you do

756
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: the same thing enough times, it's no longer really all

757
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 3: that fun or interesting.

758
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: So it gets boring, gets.

759
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: Boring, and yet couples don't know how to acknowledge that,

760
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: or talk about that, or make it safe to experiment

761
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: or try new things. And you know what, a fifty

762
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 3: year committed relationship, you run out of things to try

763
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: if you're not talking about it.

764
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 2: Right, Isn't it the same steps though in a way,

765
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 2: because with sex, it's like if you don't understand your

766
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: own programming about sex or your own blocks, your own

767
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 2: things that came with you from the past, how could

768
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: you have conflict and repair about sex with your partner?

769
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 2: How could you like, we can't do any of it

770
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 2: without the other. I guess that's my point.

771
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 3: Yep, exactly right. You have to understand yourself, and you

772
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: have to understand your partner, and you have to create

773
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: safety to be fully yourself in the relationship. So you know,

774
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: I mean it's a uh, you know, with each new

775
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: exercise you do from fired up, with each new understanding

776
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: you gain your sex, the sex is going to get better.

777
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 3: So you don't have to wait to start playing in

778
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: that area. But the more you do from the earlier sections,

779
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 3: the better it's going to get in the later sections.

780
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

781
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 3: So, I mean the book is meant to be read sequentially,

782
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: but I'm imagining that many people are going to go

783
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 3: to the lab draft or read that first. Of course,

784
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 3: of course, you know that's that's human nature, right, we

785
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 3: want we want dessert.

786
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: First, exactly. I want to skip the steps because the

787
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: steps are not that fun at the beginning of it.

788
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: I think that the more you do it, the more

789
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 2: benefit you see, and the more for me at least,

790
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: the more comfort in them I find. And so I

791
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: actually want to go to the steps first now because

792
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 2: I know the benefit that will come from it, you know,

793
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,959
Speaker 2: as see the reward. I guess it's interesting though, because

794
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: I've had many sexual experts on this podcast. All of

795
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: them say sex gets better with age. We're missing it,

796
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: like it actually is better the more you're doing this

797
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: kind of stuff versus this like fairy I keep saying

798
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: fairy tale. It's not even that it's this fantasy that

799
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 2: we make up about that passionate beginning, because really, if

800
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: you get to the depth of sex with your partner,

801
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: with all of these pieces that we've talked about, it's

802
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: better than that rando crazy vacation sex you had with

803
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: you know, Pallo or whatever I'm making up. But I

804
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: do think that's what people go to. And these are

805
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: the conversations I'm having with my friends where it's like, oh,

806
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 2: I just want to weekend tryst with blah blah blah,

807
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: and it's like, it's really not as satisfying as I

808
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: think people are making up in their heads.

809
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 3: Right, of course not. And there is something about a

810
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 3: stranger that allows us to be totally uninhibited. Is safety

811
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: in not knowing the person you're having sex with because

812
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 3: they don't see your you know whatever, krusty toothbrush on

813
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 3: the sink. They don't see you have to do your laundry,

814
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff, and Estra Perell is wise

815
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 3: and wonderful and talking about a lot of this, and

816
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 3: so there is something in that fantasy of not being known.

817
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 3: But what we're really actually creating is being able to

818
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: be completely free. And the richest sex is possible when

819
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 3: you have created safety with your partner to be your

820
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 3: messy self and have your partner be totally turned on

821
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: even though they do your laundry, even though they negotiate

822
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 3: the bills. It's about recognizing the challenges and creating those

823
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 3: workarounds that. Yeah, the sharing a life together is inherently

824
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: un sexy. There's nothing sexy about navigating bills or a

825
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 3: houseware claim toilets together. And we can still you know,

826
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: be sexy, you know, be mysterious. We just have to

827
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: work at it. And that's the part that no one

828
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 3: wants to do. And the sort of cliche that I

829
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: use is you can either invest your time preventing problems

830
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 3: or you can invest time cleaning up the problems, and

831
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 3: so you're spending the time on your relationship. I'm just

832
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 3: trying to have people invest it wisely and with benefit

833
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 3: and I don't do boring, and I don't like I'm

834
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: not here to make people miserable. I'm here to have

835
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: fun into play, and so with the right spirit, any

836
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: of this work in the book is meant to be fun.

837
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 3: It's meant to be an exploration that can be silly

838
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 3: and playful and lighthearted even as we're talking about painful stuff.

839
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that. The whole point about you can

840
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: either do it now or later, and I think that's

841
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: one of the things we miss in relationship. Like you said,

842
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 2: the gem analogy is always a good one to me.

843
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: It's like, if you want to be in shape, you

844
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: have to go work out, And it's the same with

845
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: our relationships, with our inner work. It's all the same.

846
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: For some reason, we've just gotten We've been brought up

847
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: to believe you don't have to do work around this,

848
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 2: or you can stop doing work, like these are continual processes,

849
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: just like everything else. You want the results, you have

850
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: to do the work.

851
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 4: Yep.

852
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 3: And people are like, well, you know, I'm going to

853
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 3: take the easy way out. I'm just going to leave

854
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 3: the relationship. It's not worth it to me to do

855
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 3: that work, so I'm going to leave. Leaving a relationship

856
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 3: ain't easy. Recovering from a relationship with getting over a

857
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 3: heartache or loss ain't easy. So there is no you know,

858
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 3: there's no cheating life. There's no really getting around the

859
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 3: work we have to do. We can either do the

860
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 3: work to have a better life, a richer life, a

861
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 3: deeper life, or we can do all of this work

862
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 3: to keep the skeletons in the closet, you know, like

863
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: we're like using all our weight to keep them, keep

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00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 3: them behind that door. And I want everyone to have

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00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: a richer, more connected life to themselves and to others.

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00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 2: Well, And it's like you said earlier, you can leave

867
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: that relationship unless it's abusive. There is always that stipulation,

868
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 2: but you can leave that relationship. And I used to

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00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 2: have a mentor say, well, wherever you go there you

870
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: will be exactly You're going to find myself again in

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00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: the same probably exact patterns may be worse unless I

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00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 2: do this healing within myself. So anyway, I'm a huge

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00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 2: fan of the book. I love the message you're putting

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00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 2: out there. The other benefit, you guys, is she has

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00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: all these exercises in the back of the book, so

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00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 2: it's like it's just the guide to figuring it all out.

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00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: It's wonderful it is out now. Like I said, I'll

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00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: put the link to this book in the description of

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00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 2: this podcast. But Carolyn, where else can people find you?

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00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 2: If they want to keep up with your work?

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00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 3: They can find me at Secure Connections Coaching on Instagram

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00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: and Facebook, Secure Connections Coach on TikTok. If TikTok is

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00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 3: still alive when this podcast stairs, or Carolyn sharpso on Facebook,

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00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 3: and all of my contact information of people have questions

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00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 3: or you want to chat about how I might support

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00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 3: their relationship or what their relationship needs. I always love talking.

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00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: To people amazing. Again, I'll put all of that in

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00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 2: the description of this podcast. Thank you so much for

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00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: being here and having this conversation with me.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Kelly, it was wonderful chatting with you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

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00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a

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00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,

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00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.