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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work.

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Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC.

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Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of

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Speaker 1: hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our

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Speaker 1: reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate and

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Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to

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Speaker 1: hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now?

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Speaker 1: com become a Premium member today, which is available in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have Bristol? Indeed we do, so We're

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Speaker 1: going to blow up the whole show and talk about

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Speaker 1: the unconscionable treatment of Britney Spears. Just kidding. That actually

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Speaker 1: is kind of where my heart is. But there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of other stories going on. There's electoral results

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Speaker 1: in New York across the board, some major Scotus decisions

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Speaker 1: that are incredibly telling, a court case involving Rachel Maddow.

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Speaker 1: You're going to want to know about major developments with

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Speaker 1: regards to Union, So a lot to get to treat

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Speaker 1: to Parsi's going to be here to break down what's

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Speaker 1: going on Israel and Iron and put it in context

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Speaker 1: of the entire Middle East, something that Heat is so

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Speaker 1: incredible at doing. But we did want to start with

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Speaker 1: that big New York City mayoral race. We don't officially

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Speaker 1: have a winner yet, but we got some pretty strong indication.

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Speaker 1: We got a pretty good idea, yeah, at least in

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Speaker 1: terms of how everything went. Let's goha and put the

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Speaker 1: results up there on the screen. So these are pretty

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Speaker 1: important and actually tracked polling quite well. So what we

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Speaker 1: can see from the results is that pre election polling

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Speaker 1: had Adams at twenty nine three Garcia twenty yang thirteen

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Speaker 1: ended up currently at least with the rank choice thirty

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Speaker 1: one percent, twenty one percent, twenty one percent Yang at twelve.

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Speaker 1: And I think the real story out of all of this,

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Speaker 1: obviously the indication at the beginning was that Eric Adams

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Speaker 1: was likely to win, is just the precipitous and pretty

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Speaker 1: dramatic failure of Andrew Yang. And if we wanted to

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Speaker 1: take this map, let's put this up there and Eric,

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Speaker 1: let's keep this up there for a little bit while

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Speaker 1: we have this map, because I think it's important that

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Speaker 1: we can all see this. Adams essentially won outer Barrow

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Speaker 1: black and Hispanic voters, which actually outnumbered PMC wides like

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Speaker 1: purple and purple blue colored exactly that purple blue col Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I should have put a ledger there on the map,

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Speaker 1: but it's out there in the outer burroughs. But then

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Speaker 1: you can see Maya Wiley, largely Brooklyn and queens hipsters,

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Speaker 1: not a surprise. Garcia actually won the Manhattan elites. She

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Speaker 1: was the one who was endorsed by the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: But Andrew Yang. I think this does show a very

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Speaker 1: cautious tale about pandering, which is that, yeah, he won

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Speaker 1: Asian voters disproportionately their support from the very beginning, and

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Speaker 1: the groups that he pandered to throughout the campaign. Orthodox

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Speaker 1: Jews absolutely did come through for him, as well as

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Speaker 1: some ethnic white areas, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: he only got twelve percent. Crystal and you and I

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Speaker 1: were a review, I'll let you lay it out what

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Speaker 1: exactly has come out about the Yang campaign, But it

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Speaker 1: is stunning to see how he really just let his

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Speaker 1: brand of being the renegade, the truth teller, true to himself,

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Speaker 1: the positive you know, forward thinking outsider get tarnished. I

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Speaker 1: think as he increasingly looked political, and some of those

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Speaker 1: political decisions were a disaster in retrospect. And you know

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Speaker 1: that twelve percent finish, he's already conceded that he's not

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Speaker 1: going to win. I think it's a very very strong

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Speaker 1: indication of what not to do if you're one of

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Speaker 1: those people. I think that is very well said. And look,

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Speaker 1: we should say it's not officially over yet because this

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Speaker 1: is the first choice preference. So because it's ranked choice,

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Speaker 1: they've got to tally up all the second and third

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Speaker 1: and fourth choices, et cetera, et cetera. There isn't a

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Speaker 1: very small outside chance that Mayo Wiley, she's in the

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Speaker 1: in the second place right now, could overcome it, but

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Speaker 1: it seems pretty unlikely. Eric Adams has a very absent

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Speaker 1: Tee ballots apparently are Frae the two of them. But

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Speaker 1: Mayo Wiley is, according to the analysis I read, is

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Speaker 1: better position to have a tiny outside chance of overcoming

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Speaker 1: the deficit. But certainly Eric Adams looks like he's in

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Speaker 1: a very strong position right now. There's a lot to

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Speaker 1: say about this race, but to start with Andrew Yang. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what was it that was so appealing about him in

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Speaker 1: his presidential campaign where he came out of nowhere, no

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Speaker 1: one knew his name, he had nothing going for him,

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Speaker 1: he did the Yanggang didn't exist yet, and he was

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Speaker 1: able to make this big national impact that actually has

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Speaker 1: had a very real reverberation throughout a political discourse with

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Speaker 1: the adoption, with the adoption of widespread acceptance of UBI

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Speaker 1: of direct cash assistance. So he really did change politics

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Speaker 1: at the national level and then to completely flop here.

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Speaker 1: So what made him popular and interesting at the presidential level,

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Speaker 1: it was that he was sort of non ideological, He

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Speaker 1: had a vision and you just got the sense from

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Speaker 1: this guy that he was the happy warrior and he

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Speaker 1: was telling you what he really thought. Right. There were

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Speaker 1: awkward moments where we all kind of cringe. There weird.

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Speaker 1: There were strange things where you're like, you should you

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Speaker 1: really say that when you're a presidential candidate. But that's

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Speaker 1: actually what people really responded to. They're like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: guy's not just being fed a bunch of talking points

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Speaker 1: from a bunch of like moron on a touch political consultants.

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Speaker 1: So in this mayoral race, and this is often I

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Speaker 1: find what happens, ironically when people really set out to win,

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Speaker 1: they go, okay, let me bring in the professionals, let

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Speaker 1: me bring in the political class. And these consultants completely

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Speaker 1: ruined his campaign. I mean, he lost that sense of authenticity.

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Speaker 1: He also part of the problem was again in the

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Speaker 1: presidential campaign, you always had a sense we had these

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Speaker 1: deep conversations with him about politics. He's always super read

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Speaker 1: in super you know, educated about the stats and the

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Speaker 1: numbers behind it. Math was his whole like slogan and

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Speaker 1: Ethosters was paid when you talk to I mean we

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Speaker 1: always and if there was ever an issue that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure about, he was honest about that, he'd get

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Speaker 1: back to you do the research. He would study up

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Speaker 1: and there were some basic issues in New York City

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Speaker 1: politics that he seemed like totally out of his depth.

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Speaker 1: There were issues, especially with regards to Israel Palestine, where

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Speaker 1: it felt like he was taken a position because that's

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Speaker 1: what he was told to take, but hadn't really done

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Speaker 1: the research and thought it through for himself. Those things

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Speaker 1: really came through. So whereas originally when he was leading

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Speaker 1: the polls he had broad coalition black, brown, white educated,

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Speaker 1: non college educated, there was a real response to that,

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Speaker 1: like positive attitude and authenticity. And as the campaign wore on,

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Speaker 1: I mean in party do you want to say the

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Speaker 1: media was wildly unfaired him from the beginning, and there's

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Speaker 1: no doubt about that. But just to give you one

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Speaker 1: anecdote of how these Bloomberg consultants ruined this campaign, Dave Chappelle,

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Speaker 1: who endorsed him, if you'll recalling the presidential primary, offered

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Speaker 1: reports horn A Hunter Walker to do shows for him

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Speaker 1: throughout New York City. The consultants said no because he's

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Speaker 1: too controversial, Like, are you kidding me? What an idiotic moronic?

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the sort of low IQ crap

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Speaker 1: that passes for conventional wisdom among the political consultant class.

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Speaker 1: And that sadly, unfortunately infected his campaign and really completely

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Speaker 1: derailed it. There are a lot of expletives I want

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Speaker 1: to use whenever it comes to that. Let me just

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Speaker 1: give you an example of how dumb that is. Chappelle.

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Speaker 1: You might all have seen the Foo Fighters just did

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Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden first concert back in New York City. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had him as a guest. Everybody at the New

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Speaker 1: York Times and everybody started, Oh my god, Dave Chappelle

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Speaker 1: ushers in a new era and which is good, you know,

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Speaker 1: Like he sang the cover thing and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of love, you know, and people were saying, this

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Speaker 1: is a really emotional time, emotional moment for New York City.

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Speaker 1: You could have had that, Andrew, you could have had it.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing? You're gonna do Dave Chappelle? You want?

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Speaker 1: And by the way, maybe we'll put the map back

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Speaker 1: up there and we'll see how you did in a

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Speaker 1: lot of these black areas too, where Chappelle has a

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Speaker 1: large fan base. It's just like turning down one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest mega celebrities in the world. Yeah, go ahead, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all that blue it could have been you. It's just amazing,

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Speaker 1: really whenever you think about how his campaign got ruined.

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Speaker 1: And I remember you telling me about this in the

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Speaker 1: height of the Bernie campaign, where Bernie started bringing in

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Speaker 1: more corporate people to like run his ads or not,

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Speaker 1: or he abandoned some of the people who cut his

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Speaker 1: original like America ad. And he saw the same thing

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Speaker 1: happen with Yang, which is that as this, as the

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Speaker 1: more money began to roll in, they would put out

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Speaker 1: these like very normy ads, like I remember Yang put

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Speaker 1: out that ad with Obama. He was like sitting next

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Speaker 1: to him, Yeah, I'm here. You know. It's like, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing? That's not how you got here. You're

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Speaker 1: the guy who went on the stage and didn't wear

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Speaker 1: the tie, which I would still object to, but saying

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Speaker 1: but it was him, it was him and said this.

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Speaker 1: He was like, what are we doing up here? We're

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Speaker 1: all wearing makeup? Like this is a game, this is theater.

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Speaker 1: It's a farce. He beat Corey Booker to the stage.

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Speaker 1: He beat Kamala Harris, our current vice president, on that stage.

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Speaker 1: That was a remarkable feat. And yeah, look, I'm I

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Speaker 1: will always believe, you know, in an idea of him,

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Speaker 1: I guess, But his execution was a total disaster. And look,

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Speaker 1: the New York Times put us up there in terms

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Speaker 1: of what they're talking there about Eric Adams, Mott Wiley

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Speaker 1: and Yang. I mean, essentially, what it is is that

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Speaker 1: there were two lanes. I guess he was a progressive

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Speaker 1: lane and the quote unquote centrist lane. Eric Adams basically

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Speaker 1: won because of crime. That's all he talked about the

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Speaker 1: entire time, number one issue, especially from amongst black, brown voters,

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Speaker 1: all on the outer suburbs. For those who it wasn't

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Speaker 1: Miles Wiley basically became their default choice. So the problem

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Speaker 1: that Yang had is he wasn't anybody's default choice like

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Speaker 1: he would didn't Filly fulfill that coalition. And in a

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Speaker 1: way his pandering, Yeah it worked. He certainly won the

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Speaker 1: orthodox Jewish vote, but he lost educated white liberals. He

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Speaker 1: lost black and brown voters, maybe not necessarily even over crime,

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Speaker 1: but over like an authentic city. Yeah, I would say,

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Speaker 1: I think that's what was always going for him, was

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Speaker 1: the happy warrior was this has been a terrible year.

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Speaker 1: I'm out here like saving restaurants like that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: And the moment that it all started to turn onto

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Speaker 1: actual politics, and it seemed like he was playing the game. Well, look,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to play the game, and you want

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Speaker 1: somebody who's going to play the game, then choose people

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Speaker 1: who are really good at that, right like Wiley. You

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Speaker 1: know they work for the mayor whatever Eric Adams former

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Speaker 1: cop brooklyn Borough bought. You know, you know exactly what

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Speaker 1: you're getting. Yes, when you vote for those types, you

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Speaker 1: got to understand what type of candidate you are and

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Speaker 1: what kind of lane you're getting into. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you're an Andrew Yang, anti supposedly outside or anti establishment,

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Speaker 1: can you don't bring in the Bloomberg consultants and let

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Speaker 1: them run everything. I mean, it's just it's it's not

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Speaker 1: going to work out. And you know, Eric Adams is

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Speaker 1: a disaster for the left in New York in every way.

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Speaker 1: And Ross Barkin, who we had on to preview this race,

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Speaker 1: he's been really a great voice on these things. And

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Speaker 1: I want to say, I mean he's been a he's

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Speaker 1: been a fairly neutral observer. You know that he's on

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Speaker 1: the left. But he talks about the way that Adams

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Speaker 1: has weaponized race to shield himself from criticism. Really gross,

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Speaker 1: to completely carry water for especially real estate developers. But

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Speaker 1: the corporate interest in New York City, writ large cloaks

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Speaker 1: himself in this like progressive identitarian language and uses it

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Speaker 1: as a trojan horse for corporate values. And so that's

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Speaker 1: a very hard person go up against if you're a

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Speaker 1: progressive left that is leaned fully into identitarian language without

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Speaker 1: the class sort of rhetoric and class awareness and content

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Speaker 1: as well. And so he's like the end state of

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Speaker 1: that type of politics that focuses only on representation. Eric Adams,

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Speaker 1: whose policies again from a left progressive, he hates the

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Speaker 1: left right. Catherin Garcia is kind of like apathetic towards

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Speaker 1: the left, like has similar policies to Eric Adams, but

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Speaker 1: isn't actively antagonistic. Eric Adams despises the left and the

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Speaker 1: progressive New York City galishen and yet, as Barkin points out,

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Speaker 1: he's going to be very hard to oppose because of

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Speaker 1: those dynamics he had. This he's already written up, you know,

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Speaker 1: an analysis of the race, and I just want to

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Speaker 1: read a piece of this because they think he's such

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Speaker 1: a good writer. He says, most working class Blacks, Latinos,

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Speaker 1: and Asians in New York are tenants. Adams does not

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Speaker 1: want to protect them from sharprunt increases. His allegiance is

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Speaker 1: to the landlords who make up his donor base, and

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Speaker 1: it's this cash that insulates him from true popular pressure.

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Speaker 1: One of the cannons politicians on the municipal scene, he

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Speaker 1: can posture as a populist while doing the bidding of

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Speaker 1: those who revile popular movements for the capitalists who make

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Speaker 1: up the permanent government of the city. Adams is something

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Speaker 1: close to an ideal vessel. And if you look at

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Speaker 1: the left in this race, my god, I mean, anybody

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Speaker 1: remotely classified as progressive, like they shot themselves in the

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Speaker 1: foot fifteen different ways and times. First they got behind

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Speaker 1: the sort of burning left got behind Diane Morales. She's

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Speaker 1: revealed as a total fraud or can pain melts down

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Speaker 1: and like you know, her own staffers are protesting her

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Speaker 1: and she doesn't want them to form a union. Then

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Speaker 1: it comes out you are a Andrew Quolo voter and

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Speaker 1: you're a charter school somemore, Like what are we even

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Speaker 1: doing here? So that was a disaster. Then you actually had,

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Speaker 1: towards the end of this race, as Yang was falling off,

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Speaker 1: the person who was rising in the polls before Eric

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Speaker 1: Adams was Scott Stringer. Now again Stringer and Maya Wiley.

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Speaker 1: These are not like leftists, they're like Hillary Clinton progressives,

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Speaker 1: but they're much more progressive than Eric Adams. Scott Stringer's

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Speaker 1: rising in the poll. Woman comes out and makes a

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Speaker 1: claim against him, sexual harassment, sexual assault. She had brought

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Speaker 1: it originally. Now we've learned to the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't corroborate it at all. Ryan Grimm did the

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Speaker 1: reporting of saying like, there's a lot of holes and

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Speaker 1: problems in the story, and actually Stringer's version of events

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Speaker 1: lines up much closely, more closely in yours. But she

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Speaker 1: gave a press conference and so all the progressive groups

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Speaker 1: abandoned Scott Stringer. He's nowhere to be found. Now his

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Speaker 1: campaign ilodes over what may well be bullshit accusations. Let's

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Speaker 1: just be clear, but let's just be honest about it,

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Speaker 1: clearly bs. So then the last minute coalescing is around

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Speaker 1: Maya Wiley, who is fine. But this is someone who

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Speaker 1: you know, most people know because she was on MSNBC,

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Speaker 1: is like an anti Bernie, a resistance lib ONBC. So

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Speaker 1: it's not like the left was even ever represented in

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Speaker 1: this race, which is pathetic in and of itself. So again,

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Speaker 1: they're a mess. She ended up essentially getting like she

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Speaker 1: she ends up getting sort of like the Bernie vote. Weirdly,

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Speaker 1: Katherin Garcia ends up getting like the Elizabeth Warren vote

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Speaker 1: because she's this competent technocrat. New York Times. New York

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Speaker 1: Times endorsed great point. And the whole thing is just

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Speaker 1: it's just a total mess. And Yang collapsing is just

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Speaker 1: one other piece of the story. Very sad. I think

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Speaker 1: it pairs very well. What I talked about on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: about the barstool conservatism, and what we were talking about

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Speaker 1: is like, look, we don't like how politics works, but

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Speaker 1: like that is how it works. Like this is the

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Speaker 1: power culture, which is that Eric Adams can basically do

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Speaker 1: whatever he wants because he's hard on crime. And that's

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Speaker 1: what a lot of black and Latino voters in New

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Speaker 1: York City is their number one concern. You got to understand,

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Speaker 1: like how people vote exactly what animates them. Your number

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Speaker 1: one concern will generally trump even your own tenement rights

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Speaker 1: whenever it comes to culture. So it's just another example

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Speaker 1: of how culture drives purely all of our politics. You

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Speaker 1: do have a good example in Buffalo, which I know

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Speaker 1: you're talking about for your monologue, but I do think

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Speaker 1: that was much more of a class based campaign based

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Speaker 1: upon what I could see in terms of how she ran.

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Speaker 1: May Wiley was only known for defund the police. No

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Speaker 1: no shit, I'll say it, like, no shit, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: lose never even I mean, they didn't even really have

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Speaker 1: a candidate, and it was such a mess, you know,

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Speaker 1: all over the map. And Eric Adams was focused. He

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Speaker 1: knew what his message was, he knew what his right

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Speaker 1: and so peep for people whom that was their number

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Speaker 1: one concern. He built this coalition surely and steadily played

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Speaker 1: as nasty as you can possibly play, and looks very

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Speaker 1: well positioned. There was one other race that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to highlight here in New York that we do have

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Speaker 1: the results from, sou The Manhattan DA race was also

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Speaker 1: very important because this is something that really affects This

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Speaker 1: really affects all of us. Okay, so there's Trump prosecutions

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Speaker 1: going on, but these are this is the the DA

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Speaker 1: who's responsible for policing Wall Street, and that's why this

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Speaker 1: really matters. And there were a lot of national forces

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Speaker 1: that got involved. Alvin Bragg looks to be the winner here.

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Speaker 1: This one you don't have ranked choice, so it's a

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Speaker 1: little more clear than what's going on in the mayor

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Speaker 1: oal race. He's kind of he kind of was the

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Speaker 1: middle pick, more to the progressive side, I would say,

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Speaker 1: is backed by people like Pret Barrara, Hillary Clinton in

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Speaker 1: some of her circle back to this totally like Wall

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Speaker 1: Street owned candidate who gave herself something like eight million

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Speaker 1: dollars for this camdign completely tried to like buy this race.

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Speaker 1: There was also a leftier candidate that was backed by

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Speaker 1: some of the like Bernie Forces. Look like again this

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Speaker 1: sort of like more progressive but not all the way

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Speaker 1: left candidate is the one that won there. And again

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Speaker 1: the d this was in terms of national import the

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Speaker 1: Manhattan DA is actually a lot more significant than New

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Speaker 1: York City mayoral race. I want to make sure to

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Speaker 1: point that out. No, I think you're absolutely right in

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Speaker 1: terms of the future on Trump and all that. It

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Speaker 1: is funny, you know, even though he's not the son

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Speaker 1: of a wealthy scion, he still has got a hedge

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Speaker 1: fund spouse. So it's just amazing how New York politics works.

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Speaker 1: I guess never changed. So we have some more Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court news. Yeah, actually two really significant cases here, one

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Speaker 1: good and one bad. Let's start with the bad. In

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Speaker 1: my view, this decision on unions. This was a split

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Speaker 1: vote between conservative block of six and the three remaining

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Speaker 1: liberals on the Court over whether or not union organizers

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Speaker 1: can visit farm workers while they're working in the fields.

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Speaker 1: So this dates back to a nineteen seventy five California

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Speaker 1: Agricultural Labor Relations Act. Union organizers have always had a

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Speaker 1: really hard time getting accessing farm workers. Oftentimes they're migratory,

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Speaker 1: they're following one harvest to the next. Oftentimes they live

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Speaker 1: in temporary housing, they may lack English language skills, and

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Speaker 1: so there's this lawn place in California since nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: five that says you can visit them in this really

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Speaker 1: limited basis while they're at the workplace. It's like for

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Speaker 1: one hour every so many days. So again very very

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Speaker 1: narrow and limited. This was challenged by a number of

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Speaker 1: major growers in California, and ultimately the conservative justices on

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Speaker 1: the Court, again acting together as a block, and Roberts

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Speaker 1: wrote the majority opinion here decided that this amounted to

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Speaker 1: this is Roberts language that this access regulation amounts to

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Speaker 1: simple appropriation of private property, adding that the access regulation

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Speaker 1: grants labor organizations a right to invade the grower's property.

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Speaker 1: It therefore constitutes a per se physical taking, so basically

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Speaker 1: putting the rights of private property owners, businesses, corporations over

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Speaker 1: the right of union organizers to try to talk to

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Speaker 1: and organize these farm workers. The Liberal dissent, which was

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Speaker 1: written by Brier, said access was temporary, not permanent, therefore

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Speaker 1: it does not constitute a government taking under the law.

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Speaker 1: Also said that agricultural employers are not forever denied any

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Speaker 1: power to control the use of their property, and said

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Speaker 1: that this is not functionally equivalent to the classic taking,

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Speaker 1: in which government directly approporates private property or else the

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Speaker 1: owner from his domain. So one of the things that

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Speaker 1: you've been tracking, and I've been tracking from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: is if you want to know what acb and Gorset

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Speaker 1: and Cavanaugh were really put on the court to do,

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Speaker 1: this is it bolster corporations any sort of labor rights.

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Speaker 1: You're going to tamp those down side with big corporate interest,

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Speaker 1: and this is a very clear cut example of that.

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Speaker 1: And look, we already know how hard it is to

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Speaker 1: organize a union in this country. The DAC is wildly

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Speaker 1: stacked against you, as we saw in Best Moral, Alabama.

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Speaker 1: This is just one more addition to that preponderance of

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Speaker 1: difficulty for forming a union and be being able to

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Speaker 1: give workers a little bit of power. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: pairs again actually well with the atoms thing, which is

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Speaker 1: that why do Republicans and many conservatives are obsessed with

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. It's because of abortion and because of guns,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you'll get those, although I'm actually still doubtful.

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Speaker 1: But this is the other part of what you're going

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Speaker 1: to get. And this is part of goes back in

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Speaker 1: the conservative movement called the three legged stool, which is

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Speaker 1: like the economic libertarians, the social conservatives, and the neo Conservatives.

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Speaker 1: A lot going on there, and basically the social cons

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Speaker 1: put their fate into the economic libertarians and have now

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Speaker 1: found out about thirty years later that oh, they basically

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Speaker 1: got played. They use their votes consistently in order to

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Speaker 1: prop up basically a libertarian interpretation of a lot of

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Speaker 1: business law. And having known some people in the conservative

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Speaker 1: legal movement or people who write about it and more,

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Speaker 1: this is what they're really obsessed with. Like this is

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Speaker 1: what gets them out of bed, administrative law, making sure

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Speaker 1: regulation can't go through and more. It's a very big

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Speaker 1: departure from a lot of a traditional conservative thought. But

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Speaker 1: the Federalist Society, in my opinion, is probably one of

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Speaker 1: the most successful right wing quote unquote political projects of

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Speaker 1: the twenty first century, if you really, I mean, in

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Speaker 1: almost every other aspect of American life, Conservatives have failed

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Speaker 1: miserably on almost every issue, and yet on the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court and in legal jurisprudence, they run the show. And

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Speaker 1: it's because they have this huge pipeline from law school

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Speaker 1: all the way up to the judges. You know, in

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Speaker 1: terms of people like Roberts and Gorsich and Kavanaugh and ACB.

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Speaker 1: They're all part of the fedsack kind of mafia, which

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Speaker 1: is that those people have a very specific interpretation of

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Speaker 1: business law. And more. I have friends in many of

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Speaker 1: the biggest law schools, the best law schools in the country,

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Speaker 1: part of these chapters, and they tell me this is

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Speaker 1: what they talk about all the time in terms of

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Speaker 1: in terms of what really like gets people going. And

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Speaker 1: so I want people to understand that what you want

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Speaker 1: and think doesn't really matter. This is one of those

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Speaker 1: places where it's purely a kind of an elite funded

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Speaker 1: project that has now been going on for so long

429
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: and is so successful it's got six votes on the

430
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: US Supreme Court. Yeah, Conservatives, I would phrase it differently.

431
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 1: Conservatives have succeeded everywhere that their desires back up the

432
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: capitol class. Sure, so, corporate interests, busting labor unions, right,

433
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: military industrial complex, going to war and all that stuff.

434
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: That's one wildly successful. I mean, that's really it. Follow

435
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: the money. If there was money to be made on

436
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: an issue, it has been wildly successful. And so the Court,

437
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: you know, bolstering those good old fashioned American apple pie

438
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: values here by continuing to make it very hard to

439
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: organize some of the most disenfranchised people, frankly in the country,

440
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: which is migratory farm workers who have faced historically incredibly

441
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: abusive conditions. Putting the rights of private property first. There

442
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: was another case though that I was a little bit hard.

443
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: This is a good one. This wasn't a huge surprise,

444
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: but it was still good to see. There's also a

445
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: weird descent on this. So, in an eight to one ruling,

446
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court says that a Pennsylvania school cannot punish

447
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: a cheerleader for swearing on snapchat. And this is we

448
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: covered this over at Rising. Yeah, so this girl in

449
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: high school, she didn't make the varsity cheerleading squad. They

450
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: put her on JV instead. She was pissed off. She

451
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: sent a snap that said fox school, fox offtball, fuck

452
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: cheer fuck everything relatable, very relatable, right right, and not

453
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: evenchat yeah, I mean very like nothing crazy here. And

454
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: apparently there was one other follow up one where she

455
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: was complaining, but this was the one that really, I

456
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: guess got her. So she gets kicked off the cheerleading squad,

457
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: punished because of what she says here. And she took

458
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: this to court and eight to one they ruled, no,

459
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: you still have free speech rights even and if you're

460
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, in school, school doesn't take precedence over your

461
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: First Amendment free speech rights. So fairly straightforward ruling here,

462
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: and nice to see the conservatives and the liberals coming together.

463
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: What was interesting is that the one descent was Clarence

464
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: Time yeah right, who is sort of a hardliner on

465
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: some in some other ways on free speech, Like he

466
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: doesn't think that social media platform should be able to

467
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: ban people at all, so on that issue, he's like

468
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: fairly radical. But here he said, he argued that schools

469
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: may have more authority, not less, to discipline students who

470
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: transmit speech through social media. Because off campus speech made

471
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: through social media can be received on campus and can

472
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: spread rapidly to countless people, it often will have a

473
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: greater proximate tendency to harm the school environment then will

474
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: an off campus in person conversation. So I thought that

475
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: was a that was a curious kind of surprising discent

476
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: in this case, but glad to see ultimately that, you know,

477
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: I think it was a pretty straightforward application of the

478
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: First Amendment that both this cheerleaders. Thomas is always a

479
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: weird one to down. He's libertarian in a way, also

480
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: concerned he's actually a swing vote sometimes in certain cases.

481
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: It's very strange people don't really understand. There's like Alito

482
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: who's very into like guns and the law and order.

483
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: Then Clarence Thomas, who is like kind of a doctrinaire

484
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: conservative ish Kavanaugh is more of like your traditional fed

485
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: sock more corporate type than ACB, much more of a

486
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: culture warrior, still also the economic libertarian. And then Roberts

487
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: is just a guy who really doesn't want more justices

488
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court. Everybody, please calm down, everyone, calm down. Also,

489
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to continue my legacy of being a bush tody.

490
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: So that's that's soccer and Jety that is soccer and

491
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: Jenty's role and gors Itch is just a hardcore weirdo

492
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: libertarian in my opinion, worst justice on the entire court.

493
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: Really interesting, worst one, hands down, and as people know,

494
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: I can't stand libertarian. So there we go. But it's

495
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: a very look in the eight to one. It's a

496
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: heartening thing, which is yeah, no, like, come on, of course,

497
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: you have free speech whenever you're talking online in an

498
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: off campus environment and the school cannot punish you. They

499
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: literally suspended her from the cheer team. I can't even

500
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: believe it. And I remember there were inklings of this

501
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: right when I was in high I think it was

502
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: like a senior year of high school, and they were like, well,

503
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: well you know what you say on Facebook, like we

504
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: can monitor that, and like we could suspend we Also,

505
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: I wasn't in America, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

506
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: But if I was, I remember thinking, I'm like this

507
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: is bs. I'm like we can say whatever we want

508
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: over there, so rebellious, you know, eighteen year old zaga,

509
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: But I can see this type of stuff. It must

510
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: gotten ten times worse, you know, in the last ten

511
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: fifteen years or so in high school and more. And

512
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 1: so I do think it's very important actually that we

513
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: establish these type of ground rules, especially when kids have

514
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: phones are like nine years old now and you know

515
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok accounts or whatever when they're like eleven.

516
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: So having this rock side kind of belief their pairs

517
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: very well with past ACLU law where students have free speech,

518
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: right to protests and more whenever they're in school. I

519
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: think it's very important. As we moved on, also, who

520
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: was the snitch that like told the school about that? Oh,

521
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: you know totally Anadym's snap. Yeah. Really you're going to

522
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: go to the principle with that? Give you a break

523
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: through you all right? Hey, So remember how we told

524
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: you how awesome premium membership was. Well, here we are

525
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: again to remind you that becoming a premium member means

526
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: you don't have to listen to our constant please for

527
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: you to subscribe. So what are you waiting for? Become

528
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: a premium member today by going to Breakingpoints dot Com,

529
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: which you can click on in the show notes. All right,

530
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: what have we got next? This is the fun one.

531
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: This is the fun one. So obviously our good friend

532
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald, he flagged this. Now it's funny. So everybody,

533
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: I think knows about that case where I think it

534
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: was a defamation case where Fox News had to go

535
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: to court and essentially say Tucker's show is entertainment, it

536
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: is not information. Now, I think anybody could have told

537
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: you that about all cable news. But obviously a lot

538
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: of libs like to use it to dunk on Tucker.

539
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 1: Please don't take cable news seriously. Ever, Yes, let's put

540
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: US's preface this with cable. All cable is bad and

541
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: is poison. Now. What's interesting, though, is MSNBC just had

542
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: to do the same thing for Rachel Maddow, except this

543
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: time everybody's ignoring it. Let's put it up there with

544
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: glennon Flags, which is Madow's show. Here's what a judge

545
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: rules and Obama appointed judge. Madow's show is different than

546
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: a typical news segment where anchors inform viewers about the

547
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: daily news. Okay, so what they have said there is

548
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: that they are essentially admitting that Maddow is an entertainment program.

549
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: Now this is actually pretty important because what we see

550
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: there is that Chris Hayes, let's put it up there

551
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: so we have his tweet. Go ahead and see how

552
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: he reacted whenever this was about Tucker. So he says,

553
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: similar to Fox's defense in court of Tucker, these people

554
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: are obviously bullshit artists who nobody should trust. So okay, Chris,

555
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: shall we apply the exact same thing. And remember, this

556
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: is the statement that got her in trouble on Oaan.

557
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: This is what it came from court. She said that

558
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: it was quote literally paid Russian propaganda, which is what

559
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: forced her in order to force MSNBC to admit that

560
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: she is not meant to inform her viewers. Now, how

561
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: about I just say this, none of them are meant

562
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: to inform their viewers. Yeah, Tucker, Rachel, Chris, Brian Stelter,

563
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: Chris Cuomo, Don Lemon, Joy Reid, I forget the rest

564
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: of the Fox lineup. Who else is up there? I

565
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: don't know whatever, I don't watch it. So there you go.

566
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: The boomers out there can tell me who they are. Now,

567
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: this is very important, which is that it turns out,

568
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: as has been the thesis of the show from the

569
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: very beginning, something I'm actually covering a lot of my

570
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: radar that these people are liars, that all they do

571
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: is use hate in order to gin up ratings in

572
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: order to make sure that they can all make a

573
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: lot of money, and that the core business model of

574
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: this is very bad for the country. And I would

575
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: suppose it that I thought it was a positive development

576
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: when Fox outright said, like, yeah, Tucker's show is entertainment,

577
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: because it obviously is. I mean, what are we all

578
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: joking ourselves here? But so is the rest of it,

579
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 1: Like there's no exceptionality here. You're all so terrible. And

580
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: I just wish that the same people, because Glenn points

581
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: out here in this story, NPR, The Business Insider, the

582
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: Washington Post, many of these other people all wrote stories

583
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: about the Tucker lawsuit on this one. Mum's the word.

584
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: It's just right wing media. It's funny too, because actually

585
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: the language that was used in both of these court

586
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: cases was pretty similar. Yeah, and Glenn pulls it here,

587
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: so yeah. With Mattow, the court found that the medium

588
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: of the alleged defamatory statement makes it more likely that

589
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: a reasonable viewer would not conclude that the contested statement

590
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: implies an assertion of objective fact. In Tucker's case, Fox

591
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: News argued that viewed in contacts, mister Carlson cannot be

592
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: understood him in stating facts, but instead he was delivering

593
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: an opinion using her Berberlely for effect. The court found

594
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: this general tenor again very similar language of the show

595
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: should that inform a viewer that he is not stating

596
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: actual facts about the topics he discusses and instead engaging

597
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: in exaggeration and non literal commentary. And by the way,

598
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: Glenn points us out and I completely agree with his assessment.

599
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: This is the right court finding. Yes, like I totally agree,

600
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: should never be held they should should they shouldn't be

601
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: like held liable for defamation or any of that stuff.

602
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: But it is really clear this is infotatement. You should

603
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: take it as such. You should think of when you

604
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: watch cable news. You should think of it like you know,

605
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: drinking a milkshake or smoking a cigarette, like it's not help.

606
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: You can do it if you want, but it's not

607
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: going to be like a healthy and nutritious information diet

608
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: and Unfortunately, I do think that the court is a

609
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: little bit wrong in their assessment that people don't take

610
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: it as fat because they really really do. I mean,

611
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: the core of Matdow's audience isn't going at she's over

612
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: the top, or of Tucker's audience going ah, he's just

613
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: like being over the top and being inflammatory. And this

614
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: is an actual literally The problem is that people don't

615
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: see through the cafe above it and actually think when

616
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: she says own is literally paid Russian propaganda, they think

617
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: that is actual, true fact. And I think the thing

618
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: that Tucker said was that McDougall was extorting Yes Trump

619
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: like they take that as actual, literal, objective fact. And

620
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: that is the problem is that it is presented as such,

621
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: and I don't think that oftentimes the audience sees through it.

622
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: So it is our mission here, part of our mission

623
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: here to make sure that they understand that these people

624
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: are totally full of shit. Everything they say and do

625
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: is just for ratings. They find it advantageous to turn

626
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: people against each other and make them hate each other

627
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: for their own personal profit and gain and to bolster

628
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: the corporate networks that bat them. That's what they're all about.

629
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: So Court sees through it, you should see through it

630
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, And I think that that really is

631
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: the problem, which is that these two people do believe it.

632
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: And part of the reason I haven't been on Fox

633
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: News in a long time is because of this. Is

634
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: because actually, you know, what are the important things is

635
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: actually you know, go out in public and you get

636
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: recognized by people. And the difference between getting recognized by

637
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: somebody who's seen you on Fox and somebody who has

638
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: seen you on Breaking Points or on Rising. I mean, look,

639
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: I met a lot of people, mostly old people, and

640
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: they'd be like, man, I love I stick it to

641
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: the l and I was like, wait, is this what

642
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: I'm known for? I was like, is this is? And

643
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: then I was like, wow, look that's kind of it, right,

644
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: Like that's I mean, in a way, you only have

645
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: two minutes to make a point, and everything is about

646
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: how the Democrats are bad. I mean, the previous theory

647
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: about going and engaging with corporate media was like looked

648
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: as massive audience as you'd be a fool. I think

649
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: that does actually hold for politicians. But if you have

650
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: kind of a contrary and different model, if you're engaging

651
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: in this, you have to be honest about what is

652
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: happening here, and that is what's happening, is that there

653
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: are a lot of old people out there who they

654
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: get ginned up about this stuff every single day. I've

655
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: heard stories about people's grandmas who can't go to sleep

656
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: at night because they think that the Russians put Donald

657
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: Trump in the White House. That's abuse, you know, like

658
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to tell you, that's crazy.

659
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: And a lot of right wing grandmas who think that

660
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: literally the democracy is over. Yeah. Oh, I grew up

661
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: around those people like they have been thinking that way

662
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: for a long time. And Fox is a big, big

663
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: part of the story. And like you said, we're not

664
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: out here being like sensor Fox, you know, like this

665
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: what CNN one like sentence amaz listen. I think they're

666
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: both responsible and I don't think they should be legally

667
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: held liable because the principle of it all is that

668
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: here's the truth they left them. This is what my

669
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: whole monologue is about. They have destroyed us trust in

670
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: me to the lowest level of any developed country, opening

671
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: the space for people like you and me in order

672
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: to do well and for Glenn and Mentaibi, Joe Rogan

673
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: in many respects in a way, I owe them a lot,

674
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of truck doing their job. So

675
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: I don't want them to be like legally liable so

676
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: they can use a precedent, which could they could come

677
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: after us. I wanted to just continue their death spiral,

678
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, down to the bottom line. I don't want

679
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: people to see through it. I mean in that way,

680
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: like I feel, and we'll talk more about this after

681
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: your monologue, but I feel like a mixed set of

682
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: motions around trust and media being so low because you

683
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: do kind of want people to see through it. Oh yeah,

684
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: you want them to see it. Trust should be low,

685
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: they should see through it. And so the more people

686
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: that actually see and understand the game, first of all,

687
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: the more they're going to tune out. I mean, ratings

688
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: are dismal. That's the other thing is look again, I mean,

689
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: I believe in going to where people are, having the

690
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: chance to make an affirmative case to them, like engaging

691
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: even with audiences that may not already share all your views,

692
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: imagine trying to persuade people. I believe in all of that,

693
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: but also the sort of return on investment for going

694
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: on these platforms and playing into their little games is

695
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: less and less. The audience is falling off, especially I

696
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: mean actually on all these channels, but MSNBC and CNN

697
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: in particular, so it's not even really worth your time

698
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: anymore to go and play into their bullshit games. During

699
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: the Democratic primary, CNN was having me on a lot

700
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: to talk about like Bernie Sanders and his appeal, and

701
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: at that time they had much larger ratings in there

702
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: were no voices there who were saying anything other than

703
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: basically like Bernie Sanders is evil. So I found that

704
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: a worthwhile use of my time just to insert like

705
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: a somewhat different perspective for people to see, like, oh,

706
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: there's another way of thinking about this race. Totally that

707
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: actually probably comported more with even a lot of their audience,

708
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: the way that they viewed these different candions. I mean,

709
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders has always been whether you voted for him

710
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: or not, he's always been well liked and a popular

711
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: politician in that view wasn't represented at all. So I

712
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: found it worth my time. But now to go on

713
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: any of these places, it's just it's just literally not

714
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: worth it. And look, we're lucky because we have this

715
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: platform where we can say what we actually think in

716
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: like a fullsome way. That's right, and you guys are

717
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: tuned into it and actually listening and like paying attention

718
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: to the things we say, which is also different from

719
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: cable news. See that was an important though, because you're

720
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: trying to make a point and you're like, when you're

721
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: trying to make that point to a lot of people,

722
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: then yeah, I'm not saying, oh, I'm never no, I'm

723
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: never not sure. Well so yeah, but like just to

724
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: go on to you know, promote myself. I mean, listen,

725
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: you know, they're all mostly old people. Our entire audience,

726
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: ninety nine percent of our audience are people who are young.

727
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: These are the people I care, frankly a lot more

728
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: about in terms of trying to shape the country and

729
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: more so like what's in it for me? Actually this

730
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm pretty much a downside. That's just the way I

731
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: look at it. But we also let's talk about some

732
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: substantive stuff here, back to a little bit more on

733
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: unions and important development on the teamsters and Amazon. Yeah. Well,

734
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: and also so let's start with the Warrior met coal

735
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: miners in Alabama. And this is story we've been covering

736
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: for a while now. They've been on strike four months now.

737
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: And basically what happened is they worked for this mining

738
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: concern that went bankrupt and as part of that bankruptcy,

739
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: the union and the miners agreed to take a gigantic

740
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: pay cut. Okay, So they take the pay cut because

741
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: they want to keep the jobs, they want to keep

742
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: the mind going. Then emergence on a bankruptcy, it's bought

743
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: by basically a bunch of like private equity gules. The

744
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: previous CEO who was the previous owner of the company

745
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: still involved, still making millions, okay, and so the miners

746
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,959
Speaker 1: all that they want this is it to get back

747
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: to the pay they were earning in twenty fifteen, okay,

748
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: six years ago. They just want to earn what they

749
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: were earning six years ago. And so these private equity

750
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: executives and the other moun's of the board, they said no,

751
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: They offered a contract that was so insulting that there

752
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: was almost a yunanu's vote to go on strike. And

753
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: so they have been locked in this battle four months.

754
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Of course, companies engaging in every union busting tactic you

755
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: can imagine. Down in Alabama, they've got like the court

756
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: and the political system on their side. You're talking about thugs,

757
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: you're talking about drone surveillance, you're all there were There

758
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: was a boss that actually ran into with this pickup truck,

759
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: one of the miners, allies who was crossing walking across

760
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: the street to join the picket line, scab workers, all

761
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: of that. So this was really interesting. This week, the miners,

762
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: some of them, came up from Alabama and picketed outside

763
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: of Black Rocks headquarters in New York City, in Manhattan,

764
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: and we have some of the video here. Kim Kelly

765
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: has been doing great reporting on this entire strike. If

766
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: we can throw this this video up there on the screen,

767
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: some of the workers picketing outside of Black Rock headquarters.

768
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: It's really amazing to see this because it's so unusual

769
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: for these Black Rock millionaires to have to actually be

770
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: faced with the ill human beings who their actions are

771
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: impacting and destroying their lives. Frankly, so, the fact that

772
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: they're taking such militant, aggressive action, it is a goddamn

773
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: shame that they have to do this. But to actually

774
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: be there in the face of these private equity executives, Sorry,

775
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: but you love to see it, No, oh, you absolutely

776
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: love to see it. For those of you who are

777
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: just listening, it was a group literally outside Blackrock HQ

778
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: in downtown Manhattan. Have to remember all of our awesome

779
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: podcasts list Yeah, you guys. Sometimes they can. They'll be like, hey,

780
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 1: some of us are out here and we're just listening,

781
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: So I hear you. I hear you one hundred percent. Look,

782
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: and one other real quick just follow at Grimkim. She's

783
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: been on top of this story for all the updates

784
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: going on, not just with this action in New York,

785
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: but also with the latest status of this mind worker strike,

786
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: and she's focused on a lot of labor issues, So

787
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: definitely worthwhile follow on Twitter at Grimkim. Yeah. No, she's

788
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: really good, and that actually pairs with the Team Starch

789
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: thing I'd alluded to. Let's go ahead and put this

790
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: vice tear sheet up there on the screen, which is

791
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: that the Team Stars are announcing a coordinated nationwide project

792
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: to unionize Amazon, so as an official resolution and one

793
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,959
Speaker 1: of the countries basically most powerful unions there is making

794
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: a go at Amazon. So what they're trying to do

795
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: is build some of the power and the organizations and

796
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: more in order to go after obviously all of these workers.

797
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: And I do think it's pretty interesting because I know, Crystal,

798
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: this is the second attempt you might know a little

799
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: bit more than I do about a different union making

800
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: a go at this. The previous one was the RWDSU,

801
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: the retail wholesale and department stores union. Stuart Applebaum, who

802
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: we had on our show, he's the president of that union.

803
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: He talked about how there were efforts by the RWDSU

804
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: in order to begin unionizing several other place plants across

805
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: the country. So it really is interesting here, I guess

806
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: to see two different unions both working at it, and

807
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's probably the best way to

808
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: go about it, because we'll just see which one works out.

809
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: Maybe somebody is better at it in order to make

810
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: sure that happens. You love to see an aggressive push

811
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: here to try to unionize Amazon workers. And as you

812
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: guys know, Amazon has tremendous impact over the nation's labor

813
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: force and over wages, over working conditions, and so the

814
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 1: fact that they have been so successful at keeping every

815
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: single one of their jobs from being able to unionize

816
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: has a huge impact on worker power, especially as they're

817
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: this gigantic monopoly. Increasingly there are a lot of towns

818
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: out there where Amazon's only game in town. You've got

819
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: no other choice, especially if you want like a fifteen

820
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: dollars per hour or more wage. Amazon is it. They

821
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: use their workers, They chew them up, they spit them out.

822
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: They basically their shop level workers. This is one of

823
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: the things that was that was recently revealed in the

824
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: New York Times. They actively try to push them out

825
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: after three years. They do not promote, They have no

826
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: intention of ever promoting you. They have this hierarchical class

827
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: system where you're either one of the basically like widgets

828
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: to be used up into, bosed of and treated like

829
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: less than a human being, or you're part of the

830
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: management class that gets to ascend and do sort of

831
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: like the knowledge work and all of that. So the

832
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: fact that they have such a dominant position in the

833
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: American economy is disasters not only for their workers, but

834
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 1: it's frankly disasters for everyone. The Teamsters is planning. Part

835
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: of the context here is that the Teamsters are in

836
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: an election year. They're they're electing they're president this year,

837
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: and so people are campaigning on you know, what they

838
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: want to do, and so that's part of the context

839
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: of this is this resolution is sort of like wanting

840
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: to show what these candidates are capable of and what

841
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: they want to do. They're planning a little bit of

842
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 1: a different approach than what the retail wholesale department store

843
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: union was. They were taking on this like very you know,

844
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: shop by shop effort, and you can see the way

845
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: that Amazon was very easily able to sort of rebuff

846
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: their efforts. So this is reading from the Vice piece.

847
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: They say that instead, the Teamsters plan to focus on

848
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: a series of pressure campaigns involving work stoppages, petitions, and

849
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: other collective action, sort of militant collective action to push

850
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: Amazon to recognize a union and bargain over working conditions.

851
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: That tactic mirrors how the Teamsters organize their very first members,

852
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: horse drivers, gravehulers, and beer wagon drivers who didn't have

853
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: union rights in the early twentieth century, using shop floor strikes,

854
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: citywide strikes, and other mass collective action in the streets.

855
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: So I guess what I would say is this, Sadly,

856
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: the barriers are so high to organizing, especially at a

857
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: company like Amazon, that you can't get your hopes up

858
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: too high on anything like this, and frankly, you know,

859
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: from the sort of top like union level down, there's

860
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: only so much you can do. What you really need

861
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: is like a grassroots upswell of interest in unionizing. That

862
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: a well organized and well prepared union that is laying

863
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: the groundwork with the actions that the teamsters are planning

864
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: on taking here can then capitalize on. So it's that

865
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: kind of thing where the moment, it's not just about Okay,

866
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: what are the tactics and what are the resource and

867
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: all those things are really important, but you also have

868
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: to have like an organic worker interest in moving in

869
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: this direction. Does that exist right now or not? It's

870
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: really hard to say absolutely. Wow, you guys must really

871
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: like listening to our voices. Well, I know this is

872
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: annoying instead of making you listen to a Viagra commercial.

873
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: When you're done, check out the other podcast I do

874
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 1: with Marshal Kasloff called The Realignment. We talk a lot

875
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: about the deeper issues that are changing realigning in American society.

876
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: You always need more Crystal and Zag in your daily lives.

877
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: Take care guys, Okay, Crystal, what are your breaking points today? Well,

878
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: while in New York City, was reaching for a real

879
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: estate friendly corporatis, cloaking himself in Weaponiz's identitarian language, it's

880
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: downtrodden neighbor to the north. Buffalo was following a very

881
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: different script. So Buffalo, the faded, former crown jewel of

882
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: the industrial North, appears to have just elected a socialist mayor.

883
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: It's first in history and the first black woman ever

884
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 1: to have that city. Meet India Walton, the first socialist

885
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: mayor of a major city in sixty years. Oh. Absolutely,

886
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: The entire in tenth of this campaign is to draw

887
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: down power and resources to the ground level and to

888
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: the hands of the people. And when we think about socialism,

889
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, we're perfectly fine with socialism for the rich.

890
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: We will bail out Wall Street and Banks and give

891
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: a billion dollars in tax incentives to one of the

892
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: richest people in the world to build an empty Tesla

893
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: factory of South Buffalo. And when it comes to providing

894
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: the resources that work in families need to cry, socialism

895
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: becomes scary at that point. Speakon my language there, So

896
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: India Walton, She's native to Buffalo, She's experienced many of

897
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: the hardships that will be familiar to their poor and

898
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: working class residents. She became a mom at fourteen and

899
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: moved into a home for young mothers, and when India

900
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: was nineteen, she had twin babies who require time in

901
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: the nickeu and routine follow of appointments that had India

902
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: bringing her babies and their medical equipment across town on

903
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: the bus day, day after day. Her experience with the

904
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: healthcare system it both inspired her and distressed her. She

905
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: was grateful, of course, for the life saving care of

906
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: her babies, but she also felt dismissed and condescended to

907
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: and ill equipped to make the critical decisions that would

908
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: reverberate throughout their entire lives. In response, she became a

909
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: nurse herself, and then she became an active member of

910
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: her union, SEIU eleven ninety nine. Now, in this mayoral race,

911
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: India was such a long shot. She was going up

912
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: against a close ally of Governor Cuomo and four time

913
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: incumbent is a guy named Byron Brown. Now, Brown had

914
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: taken a typically corporate approach to Buffalo's revitalization, from an

915
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 1: aborted attempt to bring in a gigantic bass pro shops

916
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: to the city storied waterfront, to Cuomo's absurdly wasteful billion

917
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: dollar investment in a Tesla factory that has not come

918
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: close to creating all of the jobs that it promised.

919
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: Longtime residents they say they feel largely left out of

920
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: the touted renaissance of that city. Couple that with a

921
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: sense of disconnect and entitlement reflecting the fact that Byron

922
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: refuse to even debate injury India, and you've got the

923
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: ingredients for Walton's big upset win. So if you're looking

924
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: to gauge the mood and political inclinations of disaffected America,

925
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: Buffalo is a much more representative model than New York City.

926
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: In many ways, the city is a perfect emblem of

927
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: the destructive force of forces of de industrialization that have

928
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: gutted much of the country. It is a living, breathing

929
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: rebuke of the neoliberal ideology that would put a sliver

930
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: of increase in corporate profits over the well being of living,

931
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: breathing human beings. It's also one of the places where

932
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: Trump initially picked up significant ground on Democrats back in

933
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen with that populous pitch. Now, you likely already

934
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: know the story of Buffalo because it's so similar to

935
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: other cities and towns across America. It was once bustling,

936
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: prosperous host to industry and commerce, a largely unionized workforce

937
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: working tough jobs but also gaining middle class stability. It

938
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: was a glittering beacon of American prosperity, with architectural beauty

939
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: and a diversity of shipping and industrial jobs. But then,

940
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: accord to the Baffler, between nineteen fifty and two thousand,

941
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: Buffalo lost half of its population. Where once boasted the

942
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: most millionaires per capita of any city in the country,

943
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: Buffalo saw its factories and pre eminence as a logistics

944
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: hubs slip away over the decades, leaving a dilapidated core

945
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: with abandoned factories, decaying housing, and deteriorating infrastructure. For those

946
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: who remained, jobs were scarce, and middle class jobs even scarcer.

947
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: You can understand why their residents might be ready to

948
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: try something different. But once not alone as a lefty

949
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: mayoral candidate, shocking incumbents Working Families Party scored an upset

950
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: win in Rochester, New York on that same night, when

951
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: voters elected Malik Evans over incumbent Lovely Warren. A few

952
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: weeks back, Pittsburgh voters chose progressive primary challenger Ed Gainey

953
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: over incumbent Mayor Bill Pedudo. But of the three, Walton

954
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: is the only out and out socialist. So can she succeed? Well,

955
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: it's a brutally tough job that she stepped into. How

956
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: to craft a decent life for the working class citizens

957
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 1: of one city when the entire American system of profits

958
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: over everything is set against you. But there is a

959
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 1: successful tradition of American socialist mayors to embrace. The last

960
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: socialist mayor of a major city was the so called

961
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: sewer socialist. Now, that was the originally pejorative name given

962
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: to Milwaukee area socialists who were fond in the nineteen

963
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: thirties of bragging about their city's excellent sewer system. They

964
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: preferred these sorts of practical governing considerations impacting the lives

965
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: of people directly to revolutionary rhetoric and philosophical debates healthcare, housing,

966
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: efficient public works. This practical approach paid dividends and created

967
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: a long run of political success for the socialists in Milwaukee.

968
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: Or you could look to the one and only Bernie

969
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: Sanders when he shocked the Burlington political establishment and knocked

970
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: up their incumbent mayor the powers that be did everything

971
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: they could to guarantee his failure, and oppositional city Council

972
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: essentially defunded government, forcing Sanders to get really creative, and

973
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: he did. He devolved power to local communities, truly bringing

974
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: citizens direct into government, and approach reflected in his regular

975
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: public Access TV show Bernie Speaks with the Community. Amazing

976
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: footage there by the way, if you haven't seen it.

977
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: Originally considered a fluke political upset, he turned down to

978
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: be extraordinarily popular with the citizens of the city, and well,

979
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: you know the rest. He's sent it to the House,

980
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: then to the Senate before they finally barely stopped him

981
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: from becoming President of the United States. Let's not get

982
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves here, though. The bottom line is this, Yes,

983
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: there are some hard lessons for the left in the

984
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: New York City mayoral race debacle, but there's also some

985
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: lessons in New York's second largest city and some big questions,

986
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: namely this one. Can the Sewer Socialists rise again? And

987
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: so soccer. I actually think there's kind of a camp.

988
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: One more thing, I promise, just wanted to make sure

989
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: you knew about my podcast with Kyle Kolinski it's called

990
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: Crystal Kyle and Friends, where we do long form interviews

991
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: with people like Noam Chomsky, Cornell West, and Glenn Greenwald.

992
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: You can listen on any podcast platform, or you can

993
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: subscribe over on substack to get the video a day early.

994
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: We're going to stop bugging you now enjoy all right, Zacher,

995
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: what are you looking at? Well? Look, one of the

996
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: core theses of the show is that the media sucks,

997
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: not just left wing media, not just right wing media,

998
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: the entire institutionalized apparatus which is supposed to give us information,

999
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: but it's basically become a home of institutional propaganda. Now.

1000
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: It's why Crystal and I have both a copy of

1001
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: Manufacturing Consent and Matt Tayebe's Hate inc right up here

1002
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: on the shelves, because we passionate believe that the only

1003
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: function the media serves today is making us hate each

1004
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: other more to cover up for the sins of the

1005
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: oligarchic elite. And it turns out it's not just us

1006
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 1: that thinks that, it's the entire country. We're not crazy,

1007
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: it turns out the people in charge are. A new

1008
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: study from the Reuters Institute in Oxford University has some

1009
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: grim news for the US media. Not only will they listen,

1010
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: they found that out of the twenty nine quote unquote

1011
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: free nations across this world, the United States literally has

1012
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: the lowest level of trust in the media at twenty

1013
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: twenty nine percent, the lowest level of the entire free world. Yeah,

1014
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: we're exceptional, all right, And how much our populous absolutely

1015
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: despises the mainstream And not only do we not trust

1016
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: the news, but the negative is also true. America actively

1017
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: distrusts the news more than any other major nation on Earth.

1018
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: Forty four percent of those surveys say they actively don't

1019
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: believe what they are being told. It really is almost

1020
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: like the study was perfectly commissioned for this show. My

1021
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: personal favorite statistics within the study are surveys of ages

1022
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: of people and asking them whether they think the news

1023
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: covers them fairly. Now, I will surprise you. In the

1024
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: United States, forty four percent of boomers feel that they

1025
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: are being covered fairly, compared to only twenty nine percent

1026
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: who don't. Now, if you switch that around and you

1027
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: ask zoomers, only twenty six percent say the news covers

1028
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: them fairly, thirty seven percent saying it doesn't. Similar numbers

1029
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: for millennials at thirty seven and thirty five percent, respectively.

1030
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: So what's going on here? No surprise, the only people

1031
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: in the country who think they're being fairly covered are boomers,

1032
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: and even they think only someone. What struck me most

1033
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: about the study was a nearly ever present notion amongst

1034
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: those within them, amongst everyone in America who isn't a boomer,

1035
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: that the news sucks. Now. Look, I know we have

1036
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: some amazing boomer viewers here at breaking points, but let's

1037
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: be honest, there are few and very far between. The

1038
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: vast majority are content to their content. They are locked

1039
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: into the cable news delivery systems which are poisoning the country.

1040
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,280
Speaker 1: Won't surprise you to learn the younger you are in America,

1041
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 1: the more underrepresented in the news that you feel. Now

1042
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: obviously I identify with that passionately, but it strikes a

1043
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 1: cord to learn this. We're not the crazy ones, even

1044
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: though it may often feel that way. Cable news is

1045
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 1: a monopoly, but it is at its core a dying business.

1046
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald, ever, the thorn in the side of the

1047
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: MSNBC media, pointed out yesterday Chris Hayes, who's one of

1048
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: the top ten most successful people on all of cable

1049
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: is getting just one hundred thousand people under the age

1050
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,399
Speaker 1: of fifty five out of the millions who tune into

1051
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: a show. The same is set for Joy Reid, for

1052
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: Laurence O'Donnell. On the weekend, it's even worse. MSNBC is

1053
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 1: getting only twenty five thousand to sixty thousand people under

1054
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: the age of fifty five when they don't have a

1055
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: big name guest. Now think about that. If those were

1056
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: our numbers here that we're getting on breaking points, I

1057
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 1: would be living in a shack down under the bridge.

1058
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: And yet, bizarrely enough, the size of the audience somehow

1059
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to matter. Some of you might remember when

1060
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: we recently talked to Joe Rogan, I asked him this question.

1061
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: Millions of people listen to you, but also the mainstream

1062
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: doesn't seem aware of you, or at the very least,

1063
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: they try to pretend that you don't exist. Joe didn't

1064
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: give that much thought as to why exactly, But honestly,

1065
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 1: that's a question I'm obsessed with. If people who get

1066
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,919
Speaker 1: millions of viewers are memory hold from popular culture, then

1067
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: what exactly is going on here? And it's obvious. They're

1068
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 1: basically trying to wish cast their old reality onto the

1069
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: new one for as long as they can. And here's

1070
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: the thing. On the one hand, things are working for them.

1071
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is literally the president the definition of the

1072
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 1: old order. The Sunday shows in DC they still matter,

1073
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: People make news, reporters continue to do their jobs running

1074
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: around the Capitol asking about a January sixth commission. In

1075
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 1: some ways, our politics feels exactly like two thousand and eight.

1076
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: Nothing has changed. But obviously that's crazy. We just live

1077
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: through a wild pandemic. We have a much younger population.

1078
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 1: The Internet is where all of us consume news and

1079
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: share news. It feels like the old order should have

1080
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: already died now. I have no idea when it eventually

1081
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: will come. Personally, I can't wait. But one way of

1082
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: reading the survey results on Americans is that things couldn't

1083
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: be worse in terms of getting information. The other is

1084
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: that people are more hungry than ever, that the old

1085
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: system is so decrepit that they're just waiting for someone

1086
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: to come in and kick them over. I like to

1087
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: think that's a small part of what we're doing here.

1088
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: I hope to see more of it in the future.

1089
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing Gristle to see some of that data.

1090
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 1: Especially one of our favorite guests, doctor Treta Parsi, joining

1091
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: us now. He's the executive vice president at the Quincy

1092
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: Institute here to talk about those recent elections in Iran

1093
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: and also what's happening there in Israel. Let's start with Iran.

1094
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: We'll put this up there on the screen from the

1095
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: Associated Press around exactly what happened here in the recent

1096
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,439
Speaker 1: Iranian elections. Doctor Parsi, you are on our old show

1097
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: Rising talking to us often about how the Biden administration

1098
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: better get their act together or a hardliner was going

1099
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: to get elected in Iran. I mean, is that essentially

1100
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: what's happened here? Like, how much more difficult is this

1101
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: going to be in terms of making sure that the

1102
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: US get does get back into the Iranian nuclear deal.

1103
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: First of all, thanks so much for having me. I'm

1104
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: delighted my first appearance of Breaking Points, delighted to be

1105
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: back with you guys. What has happened in Iran and

1106
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: why it's happened, I think is really important to understand.

1107
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: First of all, these were clearly not free and fair elections.

1108
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: I mean The amount of manipulation that took place in

1109
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: ensuring Engineering Rightsi's rise and victory was unprecedented. Nevertheless, the

1110
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: herdliners in Iran have tried to do this numerous times

1111
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: before it, but this time they went much further than

1112
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: before for several different reasons, and one of the most

1113
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: important reasons was the manner in which the Rohani government

1114
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: and with him, the idea of engagement with the West

1115
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: had been discredited as a result primarily of Trump walking

1116
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: out of the deal and reimposing sanctions, and then later

1117
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: on when the Biden administration came in. Unfortunately, roughly two

1118
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: months that were wasted, and we are now in a

1119
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,959
Speaker 1: situation in which, even after the election, there is still

1120
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,439
Speaker 1: not a deal. It would definitely have been a bump

1121
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: for them if there had been a much quicker return.

1122
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: But the real problem, I have to say is the

1123
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: manner in which Trump walked out of the deal proved

1124
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,479
Speaker 1: the argument of the hardliners correct, which is you can't

1125
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: trust the United States. Let me just say a couple

1126
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: of things. What happened with the economy over there? Ten

1127
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: million Iranians went into poverty as a result of these sanctions.

1128
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: Between twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen, the middle class that

1129
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: constituted forty five percent of the country dropped to thirty percent.

1130
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: One third of it was wiped out. And I know

1131
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about the middle class of this show.

1132
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: You can just imagine one third of the middle class

1133
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: being wiped out. So a lot of them in the

1134
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: middle class was the engine and the main constituency of

1135
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: the reformists and those who want to have a more

1136
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: open relationship with the West and a more open society internally.

1137
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: The manner in which they were devastated, the manner in

1138
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: which their leadership essentially was proven wrong, is the reason,

1139
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: the main reasons as to why we have ac President Ivanna,

1140
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: and what do you expect the policy implications of this

1141
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: to be. Well, when it comes to the nucle deal,

1142
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: I think the Iranians under his leadership will continue to

1143
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: try to get back in there. The negotiations are going

1144
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: to are taking place right now. But I do think

1145
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: there's a major major problem that has been presented here. First,

1146
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: from the US perspective, the Biden team wants to quickly

1147
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: renegotiate the deal once they're in the deal, meaning that

1148
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: they want to make it longer and stronger. I don't

1149
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: see much appetite on the side of the Racy government

1150
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: to engage in such discussions. They want to see the

1151
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: US prove that it will stick to the deal first,

1152
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: and their idea of proving it maybe two years, three years,

1153
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: and the Biden administration doesn't believe that it does have

1154
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: that amount of time. But perhaps even more importantly, I

1155
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: personally don't believe that we can go through this once

1156
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: again and just have the nuclear deal and nothing else

1157
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: built around it. The idea that you can have this

1158
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: JCPA existing in a strategic vacuum, there needed to be

1159
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: at least a positive trajectory, a humble one, a positive

1160
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: trajectory of US around relations in order to protect the JCPO.

1161
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: And I don't see that being very likely right now

1162
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: because they are ac government, because of this past experience,

1163
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 1: and because of their own suspicions, are going to look

1164
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: towards China rather than the United States. So doctor Parsi

1165
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: put this in the context, this is what we want

1166
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: to talk to you also about, is these new elections

1167
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: in Israel's let's put this up there on the screen.

1168
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: The Israeli parliament, the Knesset officially approving the new government.

1169
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: I mean, this is somebody who has already spoken about

1170
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: against the Iranian nuclear Deal. How does this change the

1171
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: situation in the Middle East? In some ways, it's the

1172
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: beginning of a new era. Natanyahu is gone, but a

1173
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: lot of his policies seem to remain with us. What's

1174
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: your read of the situation. I think there's several different

1175
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: factors to take into account. First of all, yes, this

1176
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: Benett is in no way should perform a friend of

1177
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: the J. C. Pierre. He has spoken out against it

1178
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: as well. He does not have the same skills, the

1179
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: same experience, the same connections in Washington to be able

1180
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: to do damage to divide the administration's efforts to revive

1181
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: the new Key Deal as Netania. Who could so? I

1182
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: think the Biden administration has probably taking a sigh of relief,

1183
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: but the relief may not be very long. Mindful of

1184
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: the fact that the coalition that Bennett has is a

1185
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: very very shaky want it is not clear how long

1186
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: it will survive. Moreover, there is a broader problem, which

1187
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: is that ultimately, if the Nited States really want to

1188
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: resolve this issue with Iran, not just the nuclear deal,

1189
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 1: but in general, there's going to be opposition from these ratings,

1190
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: whether it's NATANIAO in Power or anyone else because what

1191
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: the JCPO is and I've spoken on the show about

1192
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: this before, is the exit tickets for the United States

1193
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: out of the Middle East. The one fact that that

1194
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: could bring the United States back into a big war

1195
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: in the Middle East is Iran's nuclear program. If you

1196
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: manage to put that in a box and essentially resolve it,

1197
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: then it paves the way for the United States to

1198
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: be able to dramatically reduce its military presence in the region.

1199
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: That is not something that the Saudis want, that is

1200
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: not something that Amoradis want, and that is certainly not

1201
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: something that these Radis want. And that's not just Nathaniel.

1202
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: What does your read on the Biden administration so far

1203
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: and how receptive they will be to these entreaties coming

1204
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: from Israel. Well, I think the Biden administrations have adopted

1205
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 1: a strategy that I personally don't agree with, the idea

1206
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: that you can just think you can treat all of

1207
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: those problems with the Israelis behind the scenes, and as

1208
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: a result, these Raelies will not create problems. I think

1209
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: we they caught in lucky break because of the internal

1210
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: challenges that Nataniello had and as a result, he was

1211
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: not in a position to be as problematic as the

1212
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: otherwise wanted to be. I mean, when he had the opportunity,

1213
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: when he was standing there right next to Tony Blinkett,

1214
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: it was not supposed to be a conversation with the

1215
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: media about the GCK, but he nevertheless brought it in

1216
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: to the surprise of Tony Blinkett. So the idea that

1217
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: you can actually have confidence that the Israelis will agree

1218
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: to some sort of acquiet arrangement and as a result

1219
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: not pursue what they think is in their interest, I

1220
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: simply do not believe it unless the United States is

1221
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: willing to bring out some much more heavy instruments, essentially

1222
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: start talking about conditioning A and things of that matter,

1223
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: and make sure that there are consequences for these railies,

1224
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: for the Saudis, for the Amortis, and for everyone else

1225
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: who is the partner of the United States if they

1226
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: act in such a matter that is to the detriment

1227
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 1: of US interest. We have not seen that with a

1228
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 1: gide administration visa the israel In any ways. For Nope,

1229
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: not even a little bit absolutely well, sir, really appreciate

1230
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: your joining us for your inaugural your inaugural appearance. I

1231
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: know there's going to be many more. We appreciate your

1232
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: analysis always. Thank you, Thank you, appreciate it, Thank you,

1233
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for watching, guys, We really appreciate it. Just

1234
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: as a reminder, you can watch the entire show uncut

1235
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:38,959
Speaker 1: if you become a Premium member today, one hour early,

1236
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: same thing whenever it comes to audio and we get

1237
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: to do weekly ask me any things which are always

1238
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: really fun. We're actually just about to record it, so

1239
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: that's a fun thing. You guys. Can sign up right now.

1240
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 1: Link is down there in description one percent powered by Supercast,

1241
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Speaker 1: who we love and are great partners with. And we

1242
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: will see you all next week. Yes, Amas, that's our

1243
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: that's our version of fun here. It's sad but actually true.

1244
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: I love to have you guys. Thanks for watching. We'll

1245
01:05:02,960 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: see you again next week, guys. Thanks for listening to

1246
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: the show, guys, we really appreciate it. To help other

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01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: people find the show, go ahead and leave us a

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01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,800
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Speaker 1: always special. Thank you. To supercast for powering our premium membership.

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