WEBVTT - 76 Strikes:  Jeff McCausland Talks to A&G

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<v Speaker 1>I would be much more aggressive about going after those

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<v Speaker 1>that attack our US forces.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think to date that our response has been

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<v Speaker 2>too soft?

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's been a little bit too selective. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>we hit some AMMO dumps, we hit some other targets.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to go after those who are firing missiles

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<v Speaker 1>at our troops and make sure they understand that when

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<v Speaker 1>they fire a messile, they're going to die.

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<v Speaker 3>Like you said yesterday, I feel like Leon Panetta, lifetime Democrat,

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<v Speaker 3>saying that while you've got a sitting US Democrat president

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<v Speaker 3>at war more or less is pretty strong language. He's

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<v Speaker 3>calling out Joe Biden's administration and saying, how come we're

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<v Speaker 3>not hitting them back harder? That's former Secretary Defense under

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<v Speaker 3>Obama Leon Panetta.

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<v Speaker 4>That among several topics we'd like to discuss with Jeff mccauslin,

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<v Speaker 4>CBS News Military consultant, Jeff, how are you, sir?

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<v Speaker 2>Very well, guys, Happy holidays.

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<v Speaker 4>Excellent, any and same to you and yours. Any thoughts

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<v Speaker 4>on leon Putete's statement there? It seems pretty pointed to us.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I had to totally agree with leotidea quite

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<v Speaker 2>frankly and concerned me that our news coverage seems to

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<v Speaker 2>have primarily focused on what's going on in the God

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<v Speaker 2>the Strip with his horrific there's no two questions about it.

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<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, US forces in Syria and

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<v Speaker 2>Iraq have been struck seventy six times. In one case

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<v Speaker 2>there was a report that an explosive lad had drone

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<v Speaker 2>in a US barracks and I think it was near

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<v Speaker 2>our Biel and luckily that to pick your bomb did

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<v Speaker 2>not detonate, but that could have been devastating. And yes,

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<v Speaker 2>we have done some air strikes, and yes we've done

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<v Speaker 2>some C one thirty gunship strikes in return. But we

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<v Speaker 2>need to do something to get this to come to

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<v Speaker 2>a halt, and do so as quickly as possible. Otherwise

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<v Speaker 2>we all need to realize if there was a catastrophic

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<v Speaker 2>event in which a number of US soldiers were killed

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<v Speaker 2>or injured, well then we would see escalation going vertical,

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<v Speaker 2>very very rapidly. And also we need to be concerned

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<v Speaker 2>about the increasing of violence down the Red Sea, where

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<v Speaker 2>in the last few days Houthi rebels have attacked three

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<v Speaker 2>commercial ships. The USS Carnea destroyer was involved in providing

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<v Speaker 2>them assistance and also shooting down a number of drones

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<v Speaker 2>and as well accepted several missiles that the Hooties have

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<v Speaker 2>fired towards Israel.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the Political has an article with a DoD official

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<v Speaker 3>speaking anonymously. You'd be hard pressed to find another time

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<v Speaker 3>that US ships have been this challenged in the region.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is as hot as it's ever been. You

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<v Speaker 3>probably as a military guy, not not wanting to criticize

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<v Speaker 3>the Secretary of Defense, but we played a clip of

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<v Speaker 3>Lloyd Austin a little bit earlier where he said, we

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<v Speaker 3>will not tolerate these kind of attacks.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think by.

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<v Speaker 3>Definition we are tolerating these kind of attacks, aren't we.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when you get to seventy six, it sort of

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<v Speaker 2>suggest to me that you're kind of tolerating those attacks.

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<v Speaker 2>And we also need to be very clear with the

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<v Speaker 2>American public, and that is these roughly thirty four hundred

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<v Speaker 2>soldiers that are in a Rock and Syria for example,

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<v Speaker 2>about nine hundred and Syria, about twenty five hundred in Iraq.

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<v Speaker 2>They are there. They their mission has nothing whatsoever to

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<v Speaker 2>do with the ongoing hostilities in Gaza. They are there

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<v Speaker 2>still conducting counter ISIS operations to defeat the last elements

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<v Speaker 2>of ISIS in the case of the US forces in Iraq, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, and they are there at the invitation

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<v Speaker 2>of the Iraqi government. So I think the other thing

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<v Speaker 2>we need to do is to get pretty pretty hard

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<v Speaker 2>for the Iraqi government and say, look, if you like

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<v Speaker 2>our forces in your country to provide assistance and defeating Isis,

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<v Speaker 2>which cully threatens the sovereignty of your nation, then your

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<v Speaker 2>forces as well. Your forces as well need to be

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<v Speaker 2>heavily involved in ensuring these kinds of attacks on Americans

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<v Speaker 2>that are helping to defend you do not occur.

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<v Speaker 4>Getting back to the attacks on both commercial and military

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<v Speaker 4>ships in the Gulf, is there any doubt in your

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<v Speaker 4>mind that these so called Hoosi attacks are at the

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<v Speaker 4>behest of the Iranians.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's no doubt that the iradience have provided military

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<v Speaker 2>assistance to the Houthis. There's no doubt in many ways

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<v Speaker 2>the Huthis are a proxy of Iran And that being said,

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<v Speaker 2>are they there actually orchestrating this particular individual attack, and

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<v Speaker 2>that I would have some doubt. My guess is the

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<v Speaker 2>Iranians are clearly aware of what's going on. They sort

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<v Speaker 2>of may have occouraged it, it may not be involved

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<v Speaker 2>in the CID planning of a particular in the individual attack.

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<v Speaker 2>But we also know that elements of the Iranian Revolutionary

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<v Speaker 2>Guard leadership has visited Rock in the last few days.

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<v Speaker 2>And I always wonder when we talk about Iran, is

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<v Speaker 2>Iran doing this ran doing that this is a bifurcated leadership,

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<v Speaker 2>and that you have the army and the government of

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<v Speaker 2>Iran that's one thing, then you have the Revolutionary Guards,

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<v Speaker 2>the Koods force doing something else. And several times we've

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<v Speaker 2>seen over the last several years, the right hand and

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<v Speaker 2>the left hand may not know what the other one's doing.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, fair enough, I'm not the expert on asymmetrical warfare

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<v Speaker 4>that you are, but I find my self searching for

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<v Speaker 4>a reason the houthis given you know what they are

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<v Speaker 4>and what they're fighting for, would think, hey, I know

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<v Speaker 4>what we ought to do, let's provoke the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>I can't imagine they would do that on their own.

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly right. And also even for the Iranians, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a little unsure what the Iranians think they are accomplishing

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<v Speaker 2>by encouraging these Shiite militia groups just to strike US forces.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, do they assume that by doing so, eventually

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<v Speaker 2>we're just going to immediately evacuate and leave the region

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<v Speaker 2>with a table between our legs. That's not going to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>So in doing what they're doing right now, a really risk,

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<v Speaker 2>really dramatic escalation, and that's why I crossed the entire region.

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<v Speaker 2>We need to be concerned about that as this fighting

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<v Speaker 2>is resumed. Yes, we've seen the attacks by the houthies. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>we've seen the attacks by forces in Iraq and Syria.

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<v Speaker 2>We've also seen a rapid increase in violence on the

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<v Speaker 2>West Bank. About two hundred and fifty Palestinians have been

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<v Speaker 2>killed on the West Bank since this war began, in

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<v Speaker 2>conflict with Israeli defense forces and settlers. And oh, by

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<v Speaker 2>the way, it's Beala in southern Lebanon. His recommenced rock

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<v Speaker 2>and artillery strikes into northern Israel. So the possibility that

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<v Speaker 2>this war could rapidly escalate and become a more regional

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<v Speaker 2>war still is out there, and the law of this

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<v Speaker 2>goes on that probability, I fear raises. Well.

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<v Speaker 3>I've followed some of these attacks. I mean Wall Street

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<v Speaker 3>Journal had a good article about one of them where

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<v Speaker 3>I guess it was a drone and a bomb that

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<v Speaker 3>lodged in the ceiling of one of our barracks and

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<v Speaker 3>it didn't go off. Well, if it had exactly, we'd

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<v Speaker 3>be at war with Iran, wouldn't we.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty likely if you had a significant number of US casualties.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no two ways about it. That's why things even

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<v Speaker 2>more important that we respond in concert with our Iraqi allies,

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<v Speaker 2>because we had a couple of cases where the Iraqis

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<v Speaker 2>actually have complained when we did respond, even in a

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<v Speaker 2>limited fashion, that we were doing so in their knowledge

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<v Speaker 2>and therefore we were in some ways violating our sovereignty. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of get that. But on the other hand,

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<v Speaker 2>the Iraqi government has a full responsibility to protect our

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<v Speaker 2>forces since they're in their country, as I said before,

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<v Speaker 2>hoping to defend that sovereignty.

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<v Speaker 4>CBS News military consultant Jeff mccauslan on the line, Jeff,

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<v Speaker 4>if we can pivot to Gaza for a minute, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>you know, I see virtually every single headline on the

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<v Speaker 4>fighting includes, for instance, the New York Times Israeli forces

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<v Speaker 4>enter southern Gaza's largest city as fear grows for civilians.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, every headline includes the concern about civilian deaths,

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<v Speaker 4>and certainly only a monster would like civilian deaths. But

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<v Speaker 4>to what extent does Israel have options given the shape

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<v Speaker 4>of the battlefield and the nature of the enemy. If

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<v Speaker 4>you accept that their goal is righteous and that's to

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<v Speaker 4>wipe out Hamas, I think they.

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<v Speaker 2>Ask some options. I mean, Tom Freeman, I thought an

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<v Speaker 2>an article in The Times a few days ago, said,

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<v Speaker 2>May what is you want to do is just for

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<v Speaker 2>the moment, declare ceasefire. We will declare a ceasefire, and

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<v Speaker 2>we'll continue that ceasefire when you released all of the

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<v Speaker 2>hostages number one and you announced that you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>surrender and impact dismantle Hamas, okay, and then that'll be

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the war. And that puts the onus,

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<v Speaker 2>if you could say, diplomatically or politically on Hamas, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you want this to continue, after all this has happened,

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<v Speaker 2>after all these civilians unfortunately been killed in the hostilities.

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<v Speaker 2>That's one thing you could do. The second thing I

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<v Speaker 2>think the Israelis could do would be take a page

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<v Speaker 2>out of our playbook back during the surge, and that

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<v Speaker 2>is if you talk to folks that were involved in

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<v Speaker 2>that what we tried to do was focus our efforts

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<v Speaker 2>militarily on a laser effort to take out the leadership

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<v Speaker 2>of the al Qaeda and the other groups for your opposing.

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<v Speaker 2>But we had a political effort whereby we were trying

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<v Speaker 2>to identify in a rocky partner, which we kind of

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<v Speaker 2>did that we could then create a political end state.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you will peel the population away from the

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<v Speaker 2>terrorists group, I fear too oftentimes we talk about Palestinians

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<v Speaker 2>and Hamas as interchangeable nouns. Well, they're certainly not. So

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<v Speaker 2>to find that political partner, whether it's a Pan Arab group,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's the UN, whether it's the Palestinian authority, if

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<v Speaker 2>they could be resurrected that you could show as your

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<v Speaker 2>political partner to shape an in state. They might offer

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<v Speaker 2>the Palestinian people a better future, and in doing so

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<v Speaker 2>you drive a wedge between them and the terrorist group Hamas.

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<v Speaker 3>So before we get off the phone with you, I

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<v Speaker 3>want to nail this down so I understand your thinking

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<v Speaker 3>on it. So in the early eighties, as you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we had hundreds of Marines killed in a terrorist attack

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<v Speaker 3>there in Lebanon, and Reagan said, okay, we're out of there.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't think that would happen. You don't think that

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<v Speaker 3>would happen if there were a whole bunch of soldiers

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<v Speaker 3>killed in a rack or Syria or wherever. You don't

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<v Speaker 3>think we would pull out?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, never say never. I mean, we certainly did that

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<v Speaker 2>under Reagan. We certainly did that in Somalia after Blackhawks

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<v Speaker 2>down in the Clinton administration. So there is some precedent

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<v Speaker 2>that being said in those picure cases, I think you

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<v Speaker 2>have to also step back and say why were those

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<v Speaker 2>forces there? And by the time the Marines had that

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<v Speaker 2>terrible tragedy, they'd interviewed a young Marine corporal and he asked, somebody,

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<v Speaker 2>what's our What is our mission here in this ongoing

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<v Speaker 2>civil war in Lebanon outside of providing targets for Syrian artillery?

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<v Speaker 2>What are we doing here? And so the real question

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<v Speaker 2>what was the mission came to the forefront. Same in Somalia.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the mission in the Rock, which you would

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<v Speaker 2>examine against, you know, holding ices, trying to help continue

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<v Speaker 2>to establish a rock on a more firm putting, is

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<v Speaker 2>a substantially greater mission than we face in those days.

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<v Speaker 2>And also the loss of prestees on the part of

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<v Speaker 2>the United States pulling out and therefore allowing the Iranians

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<v Speaker 2>to declare a tremendous victory. He was, I would certainly

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<v Speaker 2>hope we wouldn't do that in that regard and give

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<v Speaker 2>them that kind of victory.

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<v Speaker 4>CBS News Military consultant doctor Jeff mccauslin, Jeff, always enlightening.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks a million.

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<v Speaker 2>Take care of guys Armstrong and Getty