WEBVTT - The Elizabeth Journals 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.520 you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.680 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.840 your podcasts. Hi, I'm free and I'm rthy. We have 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.760 spent the last twenty years building and working at some 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.319 of the largest companies in the world. We worked with 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.640 some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. When I see the people 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.200 of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check Out 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.480 the Arth and Tree Arm show. That is a R 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:31.240 D HI and s R I R A M show. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.400 Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.119 Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.040 This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.759 His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.200 you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.480 fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.400 But today not many people know about him. The race 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.280 sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.880 done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:12.320 Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. She was 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.280 inside that house. She could tell you what it was like. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.080 I mean, she told everybody what it was like to 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.560 live with the Wagers. I remember that they were stressed. 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.840 Decisions were typically made as a group. I was making 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.040 friends to leave the house immediately home of us for 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:39.840 the book. Okay, This is the Pikes of Massacre returned 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:45.720 to Pike County season four, episode seventeen, The Elizabeth Journals. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.800 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.920 Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. As always, it's important to 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:58.240 note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty to all charges. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.120 His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.200 pleaded not guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony by 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.240 investigators and relatives have painted a dark picture of the 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:13.120 Wagner family and the contentious custody battle between Jake Wagner 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.560 and Anna Rodin over their daughter. Today, one of the 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.919 most mysterious and least known figures involved in the case 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:24.639 takes the stand Elizabeth Armor, Jake Wagner's ex wife, who 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.800 we met in Alaska. We've reached out to her before, 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.320 but had never spoken directly with her. We've only heard 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.160 from Elizabeth on the occasion she posted to social media. 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.400 Like Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's ex wife, Elizabeth is one 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.720 of the few people uniquely positioned to discuss the dynamics 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:49.200 of the close knit Wagner family. The murder trial of 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.240 George Wagner the fourth continued in Pike County today with 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.680 new testimony from the ex wife of Jake Wagner. It 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.680 was one of the most anticipated moments of George Wagner's trial. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.720 When Elizabeth armor entered the courtroom, George Wagner's eyes followed her. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.640 He glared as she walked across the room and took 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:11.240 her seat to be sworn in. Good morning, Good morning. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:17.560 Sorry nervous. I've said this before. We give it a 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:22.320 lot of that particular chair, So we'll just speak this 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.440 solo and if I say anything that you don't want 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:30.640 to understand or the confusing question, just let me know that. Okay, 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.880 can you please see dr name and started last name. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:43.800 My name is Elizabeth Armor. One last name is A. R. E. R. 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.560 The twenty nine year old spoke softly as she described 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.200 growing up in a religiously conservative community in eastern Tennessee 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.440 and what led to her move to Alaska. I grew 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:59.760 up in all Michelite community for most of my teen years, 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.160 and because of that, I did not have a high 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.760 school education, since they we go to eighth grade and 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.039 so from mine in from the same room that I 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.680 lived on that I had kind of grown up with 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:18.080 a little bit. We're working with the church there in 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.640 Alaska that had like a parish school, and so they 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:26.600 had offered to help me get my high school education 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.480 because I was interested in pursuing a more standard kind 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.480 of lifestyle. Even though Elizabeth wanted a more traditional life, 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.719 she still stayed close to her conservative religious roots and 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.480 attended a fundamentalist Baptist church in Alaska where she met 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:47.080 the Wagner's How did he come to start attending that church? 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.520 So that particular church was the church that my friends 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.120 from Tennessee were attending, and that is the church which 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:59.000 had the school as part of it. And the teachers 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.679 at that school were too good weeks classes after school 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:07.279 to help me get up to see this gd and 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.400 so I was going there just you know, because my 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:15.240 friends are Okay, we're very involved in the church about 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:20.520 the launch getting a MDDU. I worked in the nursery sometimes, 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.680 and I say the choir because I loved to sing um. 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:30.120 I helped one of the teachers of a like a 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:35.239 Christmas program. This is the church for them. Okay, while 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.200 you were there in Attenne Matt Church, did you come 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:44.200 to learn or know some individuals known as the family. 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.680 I did. The Wagner family moved from Ohio to Alaska 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.880 in the summer of twenty seventeen, a little more than 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.599 a year after the murders. Elizabeth met them through the 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:01.440 church shortly after they arrived. And would your first encounter 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:06.560 with one more My first memory of the Linners was 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.680 Jake and Angela. Maybe people badly, but I just remember 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.120 Jake and Angela and the children walking into church, and 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:19.000 I remember thinking they were a couple with the child. Okay, 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.840 I think you have any interactions with them at that 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:27.320 time or would accas an observation. It's just an observation, okay. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:33.360 And then with their another time where you had another 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.480 awareness of that they're one of their, one or more 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.120 of them. So my next memory of the whatever's one 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.880 so that I had come out of the nursery for 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.520 taking care of the children, and I looked down the 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.520 hallway and looked like Jake was at the other end 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.200 in the hallway kind of noticing me, And then remember 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:58.240 like feeling nervous. But I didn't really have experience with 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.560 any kind of dating or anything like that, so I 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.960 thought made him was attracted to him because I was. 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:09.400 It was just an intense faway. Jake later found her 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.160 on Facebook and asked Elizabeth out. Despite her interest in Jake, 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.960 Elizabeth told him she wasn't comfortable going out with someone 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.520 she didn't know. So what happened next? So he made 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.680 a point of introducing himself to me personally next time 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.720 when he was at church and wanted to chat with 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.360 me in the gym. Soon after Jake and Elizabeth began dating. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.680 Their life as a couple revolved around the church and 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.640 the small community they lived in. Sometimes we would go 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:42.000 out and get meals just for local. I wasnaying with 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:48.200 Bassood restaurants. I remember getting ice cream, him thinking for walks, 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.040 and you would sometimes just go for a drive. Okay, 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.000 was there a point where you learned that there were 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:01.440 some negative information? We've already Jay and the same way, Yes, 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.760 so assuring me that they're the leman started coming to 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.520 the church. The pastor of the church shut up basically 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:14.600 in front of the church and Um, saying that he 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.760 had known them in Ohio and that there was some 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.679 kind of news story out about UM, and that they 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.760 had been bothered by the news, and that because they'd 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.600 been bothered by the news they moved to Ohio to 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.320 Alaska and that we should not really pay attention to 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.680 the news about them and just welcome them into the community. 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:41.679 And did you also asked for you? Jake offered an 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:46.839 explanation of it as well. He did, and what did 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:52.199 he for you? Back? He said, basically what the pastor 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.640 had that his family had been had good by the 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.920 news media, that they had there was some scandal where 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.480 you grew up. That was I think ex girlfriend had 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:06.480 been murdered and that people were putting him over suspicion 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.200 because he had dated her, and that that was one 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:16.000 who was the news story act. Okay, again, did you 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.480 did you more? Exactly exclamations from the pastor and from Jake. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.800 I did because the family I was loving with was 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.440 ex law enforcement, and so they talked with them about 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.280 it and they said that basically, if there had been 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.560 any truth to these stories, they would have already been 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:41.480 rested since it had been two years time. As Jake 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.360 and Elizabeth's relationship grew more serious, Elizabeth meant more of 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:50.520 his family. She also witnessed firsthand the family dynamics. So 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.480 when they met them, basically, what I remember from going 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.040 to their house. Was that everybody was yelling. That was 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:04.160 my imperfriend and everybody was yelling and he said there 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:09.160 was yeah, tell me about that. Um well, just seemed 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:13.079 like everybody was really angry and stressed and that they 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.880 were all shouting. I hadn't really heard people shout that 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:22.440 loudly in my life. Um. And I remember Jake saying 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.400 that they were stressed and that you know, and getting 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:32.640 was stressed. Okay, and Katie tell us, Um was there 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:38.120 a point where who were relationship got a serious? Jake? 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.680 Nine months after I met him, he asked me to 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:47.000 marry him. Initially, Jake promised Elizabeth a long engagement so 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.320 they could continue to get to know each other, but 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.640 according to Elizabeth, he kept changing his timeline and pressured 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:59.600 her to marry quickly, so Jacob changing the dial wine 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.680 so like. Initially he said it would be engaged for 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.440 two years, and then as time went on, he kept 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.280 giving reasons why, ah, well, we have to move the 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.360 data all you have to move the data, and he 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.600 just kept doing that over and over and over and over, 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.880 and you know, harry him in the middle of making 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.200 what he plans and then suddenly I have to move 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:25.000 and I'm busy and trying to manage everything, and he 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.280 just kept my day offlah blah blah until literally it 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:34.920 was twenty one month after and ultimately what was the 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:40.240 reason as to why it happy that time? He said 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.880 that he was moving and that knowing basically there was 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:49.240 break it off or coming with them, Jake told Elizabeth 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.680 his entire family planned on moving to a farm in 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.200 Missouri to raise camels and pigs, and that they would 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.400 have to get married quickly, which they did. He tell us, 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.840 what happened your wedding night? Since I grew up Polish, 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.480 basically I wasn't actually elish what I grew up in 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.360 that kind of lifestyle, that community, very similar lifestyle. I 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:17.080 had to David anybody and didn't have any experience with men, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.320 and so I had requested in no on certain terms 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:27.680 that we not consummate marriage on that night, which Jake 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:33.040 had averred too, but did not honor. After forcing Elizabeth 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.760 to have sex on their wedding night, Elizabeth says, Jake 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.720 demanded access to all of her personal information. And would 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.200 you say he asked for your personal information? What kind 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:47.200 of personal information are you talking about? I think account 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:52.120 access numbers, and my sols a security card numbers, my 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.160 phone pass code, and at the same time, you also, 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:59.000 like saint my phone with his so that he could 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:05.360 see all of my calls intense. She also had to 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:13.839 sign agreements prior or any time. Yes, I remember in 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.000 Glone then asking me to sign a paper that basically 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.960 my understanding was that was to keep me from trying 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.960 to get custody of any event of a divorce, any what, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:31.080 any event of lone divorce. Okay, you did actually sign, correct, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.200 I did. But Jake Wagner's desire to control his new 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.480 wife didn't stop there on your wedding night. Did he 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.480 also discuss with you that you should not have contact 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:47.320 with the feeling He did and tell me about that. 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:53.920 So two of my brothers um in their early childhood 0:14:54.680 --> 0:15:02.640 and secually experimented with me. I was quite young. My 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:10.360 family didn't have sex education, so they were both of 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.680 them under the age of ten, and so the first 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:19.200 one had kind of approached me inappropriately when I was 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.800 three or four years old, and then not a lot 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:27.040 of completely different occasions when I was abound seven years old. 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.080 Because of that, Jake asked me to cut contact with 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:37.600 my family on my wedding night, your entire family or 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.400 just two stars. I remember it asked my entire family. 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.240 The day after the wedding, all of the Wagners accept 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:51.160 its newest member, Elizabeth, left by car from Missouri A 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.520 week later after sorting out her passport. Elizabeth joined the 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:59.240 entire family Jake, George, Angela, Billy, and the children living 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.880 in one small, cramed hotel room. Elizabeth was horrified at 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.720 the living situation and tried to leave, but when she 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.680 left the overcrowded hotel room to call her brother for help, 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.000 Jake found her and brought her back. So when I 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:18.560 got back to the hotel room, everybody was agitated. Angela, George, 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.600 Jake that kind of confronted me about having left the 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.800 room by myself, And I said that it wasn't really 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.440 safe for me to leave the room by myself because 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:36.400 news reporters might be, you know, bother me, or I 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.000 need to talk to any more something like that than 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:43.360 I needed to only room with some with me. The 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:47.240 Wagner's time in Missouri was short, even though Jake promised 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.040 Elizabeth they would never move back to Ohio because of 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:54.320 the news coverage and the police investigation. The family returned 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.960 a few days after failing to find a farm in Missouri. 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.360 I was unhappy about it because Jaco basically promised me 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.639 we were never going back to Ohio because of the 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:09.120 news story. But after being in the hotel for days 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:14.600 on it, I thought anything might be better. That's okay. 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.880 Life in Ohio was just as cramped and chaotic as ever, 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.840 with the entire Wagner family living under one roof, tensions 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.959 were always near a boiling point. Can you describe to 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.520 as the family guardianics when you were living there? With that? 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.720 Between Jake and George and Angela, probably they back with 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:40.720 each other. How are decisions made all that? Okay? So? Can? 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.920 Usually interactions were strength as far as I remember, they 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:50.679 were usually highly stress and emotional angry um Again, the 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:55.760 shadow continued. The decisions were typically made as a group, 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.200 so they would discuss what they're going to do communism 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.960 and then that's how anybody would do. They make group decisions. 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.520 Though she was now a member of the Wagner family, 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.960 Elizabeth was often asked to leave the room. Angela and 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.360 George Wagner particularly did not trust her. Can you tell 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.720 us about those discussions weird with her? How did her. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:23.320 Usually they would happen in the kitchen. Um I wasn't 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:28.240 usually asked to join them. I just remember that I 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.960 would hear people discussing things in the kitchen, and because 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.320 it was so loud, hear people talking all about what 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.240 they're going to do, what their plans were, um, how 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:44.520 they were going to answer certain questions where people ask them, 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.320 how have we done in certain finances? All that in 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.040 the kitchen. So those were the general ties you hear 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:58.560 the assess they were talking about finances, how they would 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:03.240 answer media questions. I think of that whole they were 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.520 mentioning BCLI questions or police questions about the children, are 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:16.240 about their clothes of shoes? Are angeris about the children? Yeah, okay, 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.720 here's Stephanie and Jeff. She makes mention of growing up 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.119 kind of amish like in her words, and I assume 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.680 that means that she was a bit insulated and that 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.240 she was maybe raised in a bit of a bubble. 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.240 And on the one hand, that would make her a 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:38.760 prime target for a family of predators because she's potentially 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.800 naive and unaware of the outside world. And on the 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.520 other side of that, we've also heard rumors that some 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.600 of the Wagoners were very paranoid that she was working 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.040 for law enforcement from day one, and they just didn't 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.359 trust her. So the fact that she's opted in to 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:59.680 be recorded and have video to tell her story is 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:04.199 dremely big and very brave. Obviously, we can't know what 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.240 she's feeling, but to face George Wagner in court and 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.520 to put her face and likeness out there. I think 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.600 says a lot about where she is. It's also interesting Steph. 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.000 Obviously we don't know what George Wagner was feeling, but 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.320 we do know that he rarely looks up or shows 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.760 any sort of emotion, and he definitely looked up at 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.159 Elizabeth and almost looked like he was glaring, and he 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.359 then tracked her as she walked into the courtroom. So 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.760 if we're trying to surmise what he might be feeling, 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.439 he definitely has some strong feelings about the fact that 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:39.280 she's testified. One discussion stuck out. Elizabeth remembered the Wagners 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.800 talking about creating a bulletproof bulldozer to knock down prison 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.080 walls if any of the Wagner's landed in jail, and 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.440 she remembered them talking about key aspects of the investigation, 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:55.679 tell us what discussion did you hear about. I mostly 0:20:55.760 --> 0:21:00.879 remember them talking about pensions and saying something about like 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.440 something A thought Angela and had bought tennis shoes her Walmart, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.480 but that was ridiculous because they wore boots, and they 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.320 kind of like impressed that only multiple times, like do 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.960 you think even buying tennis shoes and boots because we 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:21.080 were boots and they mentioned it multiple times. Going back 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:26.840 to your living with the Wagers, didn't you whatever had 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:31.720 conversations with you about the sexual relations you were having 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:37.320 with Jake and yes, okay, And can you remember what 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:45.640 she what specification discussed? So I remember her asking if 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:49.760 Jake and I were trying to have childs and telling 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.560 me that it wasn't a good time for to have 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:57.760 your child. And I remember her asking if Jakie and 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.840 I had sexual relations with room, and I remember her 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:08.320 suggesting that that was inappropriate. And I remember jakeing my 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:12.959 having that discussion, and I remember telling him that I 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.720 did not think it was appropriate and that he did 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:21.360 not listen. So you basically read that as a great reate. Yes, 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:28.119 can you expect that, Jake? Yes, Aela ever a huge 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:34.679 of things we already, I went, yes, if I remember, 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:40.320 it was food poisoning. She const me above TI intentionally 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:46.200 food poisoned the children, And was there a time when 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:51.040 she yes, there was a time when it was thought 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:55.040 to my attention, my Jake, that she said that I 0:22:55.040 --> 0:23:01.760 had inappropriately touched and can you tell us what happened 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:06.840 as a result of that? So when Jay came to 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.919 me and told me that Islam believed that I had 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:17.320 touched inappropriately, I was also informed that because of that alviation, 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:23.720 George wasn't comfortable with my living in the house and 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:29.040 then I needed to go somewhere else. I can you 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:33.080 tell us did you ever have a conversation with both 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:41.000 Jakie and Angela about these specific alliations and can you 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.600 tell us what happened during that conversation or what we said. 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.919 Elizabeth described this heated conversation as the final showdown between 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:53.840 her and the Wagner family and the moment she knew 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.120 she had to get away from them as soon as possible. 0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.639 Jake so that he didn't believe I had done it, 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.800 but that you know, I need to explain myself because 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:10.560 Angela believed that I had appropriately She was acting very 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:15.760 high mighty so this week, and I was very shocked, 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:20.800 and I remember Jake questioning you very started me, like 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:24.360 did you do this? And he laid it out very 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.320 clearly to me that if I had done it, that 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:33.600 that the right thing to do would be to create 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:39.560 Lucille the baseball bath from the Walking Dead and string 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.359 me up in the barn, beat me to death with 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:49.280 the baseball bat both was the barn, Dad, and hunt 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:53.320 down and kill my BM. I mean, he didn't do it. 0:24:53.920 --> 0:24:57.240 If his mom would do it. If his mom didn't 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:01.240 do it, his dad would do it, or George would 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:04.480 do it, or Billy or you know. He just guessed 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:10.680 any of them would be willing to do this to 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:15.879 Elizabeth says she went to her room, packed her bag 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:19.159 and called a friend for help. I was making friends 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:28.479 to leave the house immediately, right, Okay, we're going to 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:33.720 take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:25:33.720 --> 0:25:36.760 I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:40.240 Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:44.960 a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:51.280 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:55.760 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:25:56.040 --> 0:26:01.000 He really wasn't, he shouted into the point she went unconscious. 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:05.480 Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:09.520 time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:12.480 girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:16.000 pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:17.679 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.000 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:22.920 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:25.879 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:30.560 the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:34.240 you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Gladwell here, host 0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:37.320 of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:42.879 misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our ongoing 0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:47.320 obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college 0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:50.919 ranking system, why not just throw in a few extra 0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:55.320 zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking, 0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:58.800 learning that I kind of have to start over. The 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:01.880 tolle that you have throughout the debate was very similar 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:03.840 to some of the students that I do work with 0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:06.480 and that's what I teach them not to do. We're 0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.480 making more revisionist history for you this year than ever 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:15.600 from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:19.640 small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:23.080 your thumb up like us, You're gonna pull the trigger 0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:26.800 with this finger here, Okay, listen to revisionist history on 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:31.200 the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:35.879 your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is going on 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:39.600 in here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:41.560 situation like this. I just thought it was just a 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.119 really terrible immoral thing, a ligne they won't cross. I 0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:48.480 was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:51.760 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:56.160 find yourself at that line. Thou art ricin and somebody 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:59.160 needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:04.280 is evil, and the only person who can sound the 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.920 alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently 0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:13.199 buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you 0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:15.560