Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hi, I'm free and I'm rthy. We have
Speaker 1: spent the last twenty years building and working at some
Speaker 1: of the largest companies in the world. We worked with
Speaker 1: some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. When I see the people
Speaker 1: of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check Out
Speaker 1: the Arth and Tree Arm show. That is a R
Speaker 1: D HI and s R I R A M show.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me.
Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name
Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a
Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression.
Speaker 1: But today not many people know about him. The race
Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was
Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. She was
Speaker 1: inside that house. She could tell you what it was like.
Speaker 1: I mean, she told everybody what it was like to
Speaker 1: live with the Wagers. I remember that they were stressed.
Speaker 1: Decisions were typically made as a group. I was making
Speaker 1: friends to leave the house immediately home of us for
Speaker 1: the book. Okay, This is the Pikes of Massacre returned
Speaker 1: to Pike County season four, episode seventeen, The Elizabeth Journals.
Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with
Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. As always, it's important to
Speaker 1: note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
Speaker 1: His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also
Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony by
Speaker 1: investigators and relatives have painted a dark picture of the
Speaker 1: Wagner family and the contentious custody battle between Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: and Anna Rodin over their daughter. Today, one of the
Speaker 1: most mysterious and least known figures involved in the case
Speaker 1: takes the stand Elizabeth Armor, Jake Wagner's ex wife, who
Speaker 1: we met in Alaska. We've reached out to her before,
Speaker 1: but had never spoken directly with her. We've only heard
Speaker 1: from Elizabeth on the occasion she posted to social media.
Speaker 1: Like Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's ex wife, Elizabeth is one
Speaker 1: of the few people uniquely positioned to discuss the dynamics
Speaker 1: of the close knit Wagner family. The murder trial of
Speaker 1: George Wagner the fourth continued in Pike County today with
Speaker 1: new testimony from the ex wife of Jake Wagner. It
Speaker 1: was one of the most anticipated moments of George Wagner's trial.
Speaker 1: When Elizabeth armor entered the courtroom, George Wagner's eyes followed her.
Speaker 1: He glared as she walked across the room and took
Speaker 1: her seat to be sworn in. Good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 1: Sorry nervous. I've said this before. We give it a
Speaker 1: lot of that particular chair, So we'll just speak this
Speaker 1: solo and if I say anything that you don't want
Speaker 1: to understand or the confusing question, just let me know that. Okay,
Speaker 1: can you please see dr name and started last name.
Speaker 1: My name is Elizabeth Armor. One last name is A. R. E. R.
Speaker 1: The twenty nine year old spoke softly as she described
Speaker 1: growing up in a religiously conservative community in eastern Tennessee
Speaker 1: and what led to her move to Alaska. I grew
Speaker 1: up in all Michelite community for most of my teen years,
Speaker 1: and because of that, I did not have a high
Speaker 1: school education, since they we go to eighth grade and
Speaker 1: so from mine in from the same room that I
Speaker 1: lived on that I had kind of grown up with
Speaker 1: a little bit. We're working with the church there in
Speaker 1: Alaska that had like a parish school, and so they
Speaker 1: had offered to help me get my high school education
Speaker 1: because I was interested in pursuing a more standard kind
Speaker 1: of lifestyle. Even though Elizabeth wanted a more traditional life,
Speaker 1: she still stayed close to her conservative religious roots and
Speaker 1: attended a fundamentalist Baptist church in Alaska where she met
Speaker 1: the Wagner's How did he come to start attending that church?
Speaker 1: So that particular church was the church that my friends
Speaker 1: from Tennessee were attending, and that is the church which
Speaker 1: had the school as part of it. And the teachers
Speaker 1: at that school were too good weeks classes after school
Speaker 1: to help me get up to see this gd and
Speaker 1: so I was going there just you know, because my
Speaker 1: friends are Okay, we're very involved in the church about
Speaker 1: the launch getting a MDDU. I worked in the nursery sometimes,
Speaker 1: and I say the choir because I loved to sing um.
Speaker 1: I helped one of the teachers of a like a
Speaker 1: Christmas program. This is the church for them. Okay, while
Speaker 1: you were there in Attenne Matt Church, did you come
Speaker 1: to learn or know some individuals known as the family.
Speaker 1: I did. The Wagner family moved from Ohio to Alaska
Speaker 1: in the summer of twenty seventeen, a little more than
Speaker 1: a year after the murders. Elizabeth met them through the
Speaker 1: church shortly after they arrived. And would your first encounter
Speaker 1: with one more My first memory of the Linners was
Speaker 1: Jake and Angela. Maybe people badly, but I just remember
Speaker 1: Jake and Angela and the children walking into church, and
Speaker 1: I remember thinking they were a couple with the child. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think you have any interactions with them at that
Speaker 1: time or would accas an observation. It's just an observation, okay.
Speaker 1: And then with their another time where you had another
Speaker 1: awareness of that they're one of their, one or more
Speaker 1: of them. So my next memory of the whatever's one
Speaker 1: so that I had come out of the nursery for
Speaker 1: taking care of the children, and I looked down the
Speaker 1: hallway and looked like Jake was at the other end
Speaker 1: in the hallway kind of noticing me, And then remember
Speaker 1: like feeling nervous. But I didn't really have experience with
Speaker 1: any kind of dating or anything like that, so I
Speaker 1: thought made him was attracted to him because I was.
Speaker 1: It was just an intense faway. Jake later found her
Speaker 1: on Facebook and asked Elizabeth out. Despite her interest in Jake,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth told him she wasn't comfortable going out with someone
Speaker 1: she didn't know. So what happened next? So he made
Speaker 1: a point of introducing himself to me personally next time
Speaker 1: when he was at church and wanted to chat with
Speaker 1: me in the gym. Soon after Jake and Elizabeth began dating.
Speaker 1: Their life as a couple revolved around the church and
Speaker 1: the small community they lived in. Sometimes we would go
Speaker 1: out and get meals just for local. I wasnaying with
Speaker 1: Bassood restaurants. I remember getting ice cream, him thinking for walks,
Speaker 1: and you would sometimes just go for a drive. Okay,
Speaker 1: was there a point where you learned that there were
Speaker 1: some negative information? We've already Jay and the same way, Yes,
Speaker 1: so assuring me that they're the leman started coming to
Speaker 1: the church. The pastor of the church shut up basically
Speaker 1: in front of the church and Um, saying that he
Speaker 1: had known them in Ohio and that there was some
Speaker 1: kind of news story out about UM, and that they
Speaker 1: had been bothered by the news, and that because they'd
Speaker 1: been bothered by the news they moved to Ohio to
Speaker 1: Alaska and that we should not really pay attention to
Speaker 1: the news about them and just welcome them into the community.
Speaker 1: And did you also asked for you? Jake offered an
Speaker 1: explanation of it as well. He did, and what did
Speaker 1: he for you? Back? He said, basically what the pastor
Speaker 1: had that his family had been had good by the
Speaker 1: news media, that they had there was some scandal where
Speaker 1: you grew up. That was I think ex girlfriend had
Speaker 1: been murdered and that people were putting him over suspicion
Speaker 1: because he had dated her, and that that was one
Speaker 1: who was the news story act. Okay, again, did you
Speaker 1: did you more? Exactly exclamations from the pastor and from Jake.
Speaker 1: I did because the family I was loving with was
Speaker 1: ex law enforcement, and so they talked with them about
Speaker 1: it and they said that basically, if there had been
Speaker 1: any truth to these stories, they would have already been
Speaker 1: rested since it had been two years time. As Jake
Speaker 1: and Elizabeth's relationship grew more serious, Elizabeth meant more of
Speaker 1: his family. She also witnessed firsthand the family dynamics. So
Speaker 1: when they met them, basically, what I remember from going
Speaker 1: to their house. Was that everybody was yelling. That was
Speaker 1: my imperfriend and everybody was yelling and he said there
Speaker 1: was yeah, tell me about that. Um well, just seemed
Speaker 1: like everybody was really angry and stressed and that they
Speaker 1: were all shouting. I hadn't really heard people shout that
Speaker 1: loudly in my life. Um. And I remember Jake saying
Speaker 1: that they were stressed and that you know, and getting
Speaker 1: was stressed. Okay, and Katie tell us, Um was there
Speaker 1: a point where who were relationship got a serious? Jake?
Speaker 1: Nine months after I met him, he asked me to
Speaker 1: marry him. Initially, Jake promised Elizabeth a long engagement so
Speaker 1: they could continue to get to know each other, but
Speaker 1: according to Elizabeth, he kept changing his timeline and pressured
Speaker 1: her to marry quickly, so Jacob changing the dial wine
Speaker 1: so like. Initially he said it would be engaged for
Speaker 1: two years, and then as time went on, he kept
Speaker 1: giving reasons why, ah, well, we have to move the
Speaker 1: data all you have to move the data, and he
Speaker 1: just kept doing that over and over and over and over,
Speaker 1: and you know, harry him in the middle of making
Speaker 1: what he plans and then suddenly I have to move
Speaker 1: and I'm busy and trying to manage everything, and he
Speaker 1: just kept my day offlah blah blah until literally it
Speaker 1: was twenty one month after and ultimately what was the
Speaker 1: reason as to why it happy that time? He said
Speaker 1: that he was moving and that knowing basically there was
Speaker 1: break it off or coming with them, Jake told Elizabeth
Speaker 1: his entire family planned on moving to a farm in
Speaker 1: Missouri to raise camels and pigs, and that they would
Speaker 1: have to get married quickly, which they did. He tell us,
Speaker 1: what happened your wedding night? Since I grew up Polish,
Speaker 1: basically I wasn't actually elish what I grew up in
Speaker 1: that kind of lifestyle, that community, very similar lifestyle. I
Speaker 1: had to David anybody and didn't have any experience with men,
Speaker 1: and so I had requested in no on certain terms
Speaker 1: that we not consummate marriage on that night, which Jake
Speaker 1: had averred too, but did not honor. After forcing Elizabeth
Speaker 1: to have sex on their wedding night, Elizabeth says, Jake
Speaker 1: demanded access to all of her personal information. And would
Speaker 1: you say he asked for your personal information? What kind
Speaker 1: of personal information are you talking about? I think account
Speaker 1: access numbers, and my sols a security card numbers, my
Speaker 1: phone pass code, and at the same time, you also,
Speaker 1: like saint my phone with his so that he could
Speaker 1: see all of my calls intense. She also had to
Speaker 1: sign agreements prior or any time. Yes, I remember in
Speaker 1: Glone then asking me to sign a paper that basically
Speaker 1: my understanding was that was to keep me from trying
Speaker 1: to get custody of any event of a divorce, any what,
Speaker 1: any event of lone divorce. Okay, you did actually sign, correct,
Speaker 1: I did. But Jake Wagner's desire to control his new
Speaker 1: wife didn't stop there on your wedding night. Did he
Speaker 1: also discuss with you that you should not have contact
Speaker 1: with the feeling He did and tell me about that.
Speaker 1: So two of my brothers um in their early childhood
Speaker 1: and secually experimented with me. I was quite young. My
Speaker 1: family didn't have sex education, so they were both of
Speaker 1: them under the age of ten, and so the first
Speaker 1: one had kind of approached me inappropriately when I was
Speaker 1: three or four years old, and then not a lot
Speaker 1: of completely different occasions when I was abound seven years old.
Speaker 1: Because of that, Jake asked me to cut contact with
Speaker 1: my family on my wedding night, your entire family or
Speaker 1: just two stars. I remember it asked my entire family.
Speaker 1: The day after the wedding, all of the Wagners accept
Speaker 1: its newest member, Elizabeth, left by car from Missouri A
Speaker 1: week later after sorting out her passport. Elizabeth joined the
Speaker 1: entire family Jake, George, Angela, Billy, and the children living
Speaker 1: in one small, cramed hotel room. Elizabeth was horrified at
Speaker 1: the living situation and tried to leave, but when she
Speaker 1: left the overcrowded hotel room to call her brother for help,
Speaker 1: Jake found her and brought her back. So when I
Speaker 1: got back to the hotel room, everybody was agitated. Angela, George,
Speaker 1: Jake that kind of confronted me about having left the
Speaker 1: room by myself, And I said that it wasn't really
Speaker 1: safe for me to leave the room by myself because
Speaker 1: news reporters might be, you know, bother me, or I
Speaker 1: need to talk to any more something like that than
Speaker 1: I needed to only room with some with me. The
Speaker 1: Wagner's time in Missouri was short, even though Jake promised
Speaker 1: Elizabeth they would never move back to Ohio because of
Speaker 1: the news coverage and the police investigation. The family returned
Speaker 1: a few days after failing to find a farm in Missouri.
Speaker 1: I was unhappy about it because Jaco basically promised me
Speaker 1: we were never going back to Ohio because of the
Speaker 1: news story. But after being in the hotel for days
Speaker 1: on it, I thought anything might be better. That's okay.
Speaker 1: Life in Ohio was just as cramped and chaotic as ever,
Speaker 1: with the entire Wagner family living under one roof, tensions
Speaker 1: were always near a boiling point. Can you describe to
Speaker 1: as the family guardianics when you were living there? With that?
Speaker 1: Between Jake and George and Angela, probably they back with
Speaker 1: each other. How are decisions made all that? Okay? So? Can?
Speaker 1: Usually interactions were strength as far as I remember, they
Speaker 1: were usually highly stress and emotional angry um Again, the
Speaker 1: shadow continued. The decisions were typically made as a group,
Speaker 1: so they would discuss what they're going to do communism
Speaker 1: and then that's how anybody would do. They make group decisions.
Speaker 1: Though she was now a member of the Wagner family,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth was often asked to leave the room. Angela and
Speaker 1: George Wagner particularly did not trust her. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us about those discussions weird with her? How did her.
Speaker 1: Usually they would happen in the kitchen. Um I wasn't
Speaker 1: usually asked to join them. I just remember that I
Speaker 1: would hear people discussing things in the kitchen, and because
Speaker 1: it was so loud, hear people talking all about what
Speaker 1: they're going to do, what their plans were, um, how
Speaker 1: they were going to answer certain questions where people ask them,
Speaker 1: how have we done in certain finances? All that in
Speaker 1: the kitchen. So those were the general ties you hear
Speaker 1: the assess they were talking about finances, how they would
Speaker 1: answer media questions. I think of that whole they were
Speaker 1: mentioning BCLI questions or police questions about the children, are
Speaker 1: about their clothes of shoes? Are angeris about the children? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: here's Stephanie and Jeff. She makes mention of growing up
Speaker 1: kind of amish like in her words, and I assume
Speaker 1: that means that she was a bit insulated and that
Speaker 1: she was maybe raised in a bit of a bubble.
Speaker 1: And on the one hand, that would make her a
Speaker 1: prime target for a family of predators because she's potentially
Speaker 1: naive and unaware of the outside world. And on the
Speaker 1: other side of that, we've also heard rumors that some
Speaker 1: of the Wagoners were very paranoid that she was working
Speaker 1: for law enforcement from day one, and they just didn't
Speaker 1: trust her. So the fact that she's opted in to
Speaker 1: be recorded and have video to tell her story is
Speaker 1: dremely big and very brave. Obviously, we can't know what
Speaker 1: she's feeling, but to face George Wagner in court and
Speaker 1: to put her face and likeness out there. I think
Speaker 1: says a lot about where she is. It's also interesting Steph.
Speaker 1: Obviously we don't know what George Wagner was feeling, but
Speaker 1: we do know that he rarely looks up or shows
Speaker 1: any sort of emotion, and he definitely looked up at
Speaker 1: Elizabeth and almost looked like he was glaring, and he
Speaker 1: then tracked her as she walked into the courtroom. So
Speaker 1: if we're trying to surmise what he might be feeling,
Speaker 1: he definitely has some strong feelings about the fact that
Speaker 1: she's testified. One discussion stuck out. Elizabeth remembered the Wagners
Speaker 1: talking about creating a bulletproof bulldozer to knock down prison
Speaker 1: walls if any of the Wagner's landed in jail, and
Speaker 1: she remembered them talking about key aspects of the investigation,
Speaker 1: tell us what discussion did you hear about. I mostly
Speaker 1: remember them talking about pensions and saying something about like
Speaker 1: something A thought Angela and had bought tennis shoes her Walmart,
Speaker 1: but that was ridiculous because they wore boots, and they
Speaker 1: kind of like impressed that only multiple times, like do
Speaker 1: you think even buying tennis shoes and boots because we
Speaker 1: were boots and they mentioned it multiple times. Going back
Speaker 1: to your living with the Wagers, didn't you whatever had
Speaker 1: conversations with you about the sexual relations you were having
Speaker 1: with Jake and yes, okay, And can you remember what
Speaker 1: she what specification discussed? So I remember her asking if
Speaker 1: Jake and I were trying to have childs and telling
Speaker 1: me that it wasn't a good time for to have
Speaker 1: your child. And I remember her asking if Jakie and
Speaker 1: I had sexual relations with room, and I remember her
Speaker 1: suggesting that that was inappropriate. And I remember jakeing my
Speaker 1: having that discussion, and I remember telling him that I
Speaker 1: did not think it was appropriate and that he did
Speaker 1: not listen. So you basically read that as a great reate. Yes,
Speaker 1: can you expect that, Jake? Yes, Aela ever a huge
Speaker 1: of things we already, I went, yes, if I remember,
Speaker 1: it was food poisoning. She const me above TI intentionally
Speaker 1: food poisoned the children, And was there a time when
Speaker 1: she yes, there was a time when it was thought
Speaker 1: to my attention, my Jake, that she said that I
Speaker 1: had inappropriately touched and can you tell us what happened
Speaker 1: as a result of that? So when Jay came to
Speaker 1: me and told me that Islam believed that I had
Speaker 1: touched inappropriately, I was also informed that because of that alviation,
Speaker 1: George wasn't comfortable with my living in the house and
Speaker 1: then I needed to go somewhere else. I can you
Speaker 1: tell us did you ever have a conversation with both
Speaker 1: Jakie and Angela about these specific alliations and can you
Speaker 1: tell us what happened during that conversation or what we said.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth described this heated conversation as the final showdown between
Speaker 1: her and the Wagner family and the moment she knew
Speaker 1: she had to get away from them as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Jake so that he didn't believe I had done it,
Speaker 1: but that you know, I need to explain myself because
Speaker 1: Angela believed that I had appropriately She was acting very
Speaker 1: high mighty so this week, and I was very shocked,
Speaker 1: and I remember Jake questioning you very started me, like
Speaker 1: did you do this? And he laid it out very
Speaker 1: clearly to me that if I had done it, that
Speaker 1: that the right thing to do would be to create
Speaker 1: Lucille the baseball bath from the Walking Dead and string
Speaker 1: me up in the barn, beat me to death with
Speaker 1: the baseball bat both was the barn, Dad, and hunt
Speaker 1: down and kill my BM. I mean, he didn't do it.
Speaker 1: If his mom would do it. If his mom didn't
Speaker 1: do it, his dad would do it, or George would
Speaker 1: do it, or Billy or you know. He just guessed
Speaker 1: any of them would be willing to do this to
Speaker 1: Elizabeth says she went to her room, packed her bag
Speaker 1: and called a friend for help. I was making friends
Speaker 1: to leave the house immediately, right, Okay, we're going to
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't, he shouted into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Gladwell here, host
Speaker 1: of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the
Speaker 1: misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our ongoing
Speaker 1: obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college
Speaker 1: ranking system, why not just throw in a few extra
Speaker 1: zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking,
Speaker 1: learning that I kind of have to start over. The
Speaker 1: tolle that you have throughout the debate was very similar
Speaker 1: to some of the students that I do work with
Speaker 1: and that's what I teach them not to do. We're
Speaker 1: making more revisionist history for you this year than ever
Speaker 1: from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters,
Speaker 1: small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put
Speaker 1: your thumb up like us, You're gonna pull the trigger
Speaker 1: with this finger here, Okay, listen to revisionist history on
Speaker 1: the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is going on
Speaker 1: in here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a
Speaker 1: situation like this. I just thought it was just a
Speaker 1: really terrible immoral thing, a ligne they won't cross. I
Speaker 1: was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thou art ricin and somebody
Speaker 1: needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth
Speaker 1: is evil, and the only person who can sound the
Speaker 1: alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently
Speaker 1: buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you
Speaker 1: are disloyal, thinks are going to happen to this week
Speaker 1: out disgrace to our cut evil place should be prosecuted.
Speaker 1: When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense.
Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of
Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my Awart winning
Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to
Speaker 1: touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have
Speaker 1: been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil.
Speaker 1: They will take things away, and I can only hope
Speaker 1: that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, You
Speaker 1: and I both know what it took to just get
Speaker 1: through the day in New York City and get home
Speaker 1: in one piece. And so the fact that we're here
Speaker 1: and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,
Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.
Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,
Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking
Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Armor was determined to flee Jake and the rest
Speaker 1: of the Wagoners. Elizabeth began pushing back against the Wagner's rules,
Speaker 1: taking walks to the library and the local cemetery. She
Speaker 1: also kept a diary tural and one if you could
Speaker 1: go ahead and looking at and first of all, tell
Speaker 1: me if that is what is showing on this screen
Speaker 1: in part US one of my journal entries, okay, if
Speaker 1: you go ahead and be three that for USA is
Speaker 1: in your Granddaddy. The people I live with are all right,
Speaker 1: I guess They're constantly yelling and hitting, and not one
Speaker 1: of them understands the concept or need for privacy. Even
Speaker 1: the most private of all human doings are open for
Speaker 1: discussion and comment. In this family, it grates on my nerves. Also,
Speaker 1: nobody seems to understand basic ownership. Okay, And he tells us,
Speaker 1: is that one of the journal entries that we could
Speaker 1: waiting that was discovered by other people living in the home. Yes,
Speaker 1: and were you seeing about them in natural country. So
Speaker 1: speaking about George Jake Angela gruge chicken Angela. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: The prosecution then asked Elizabeth to read another entry about
Speaker 1: the Wagner family. Dear Granddaddy, I try so hard not
Speaker 1: to hate people. Proof of this is that out of
Speaker 1: my entire crazy big family, there are only two people
Speaker 1: I truly hate. But now Granddaddy, there are Free Daniel
Speaker 1: Isaac Angela. I'm going to call her miss Angela because
Speaker 1: of the name hits her anyways. Miss Angela is horrible
Speaker 1: for all these reasons. One she married unwisely and believes
Speaker 1: all marriages destined to end like hers. Two she has
Speaker 1: her fingers and my husband's pocketbook and makes exorbitant demands
Speaker 1: on his salary, holding her own quote unquote gifts and
Speaker 1: help over his head like a clove to emphasize her demands.
Speaker 1: Three she has more say over my life right now
Speaker 1: than I do because she controls my husband through his child.
Speaker 1: Four she verbally abuses and yells insinuations at my husband,
Speaker 1: which he doesn't understand what I do. Five she dislikes
Speaker 1: and ridicules books, and she because well how to read
Speaker 1: less that that says. Six because she is a manipulative.
Speaker 1: She is teaching our daughters to manipulate and lie. Seven.
Speaker 1: My husband would listen to her far rather than to me,
Speaker 1: because she has raised his daughter thus far. Eight. She
Speaker 1: believes me to be a replica of Tabby and treats
Speaker 1: me as such. She has insinuated several arms that she
Speaker 1: expects me to poison her. Nine she has repeatedly declared
Speaker 1: that she will see to it that will always peeper
Speaker 1: her to be with her and never accept me as
Speaker 1: her mamma. Key. She has threatened my husband with custody battles. Eleven.
Speaker 1: The most horrible thing is I have her totally within
Speaker 1: my power. All I would have to do would be
Speaker 1: to tell people she did it to get away from
Speaker 1: her abused mother, and I would get her the lifetime
Speaker 1: sentence like that. The only thing is much as I
Speaker 1: hate the woman Scots, it would not be true. Twelve.
Speaker 1: She loves and encourages boys Obeski. Thirteen. She treats the
Speaker 1: children second, work first and kids second, continuing the same
Speaker 1: donory entry to me to read a Thirteen. She keeps
Speaker 1: tabs on me, always watching and listening to see where
Speaker 1: I am. Thirteen I'm having to live in her house
Speaker 1: under her direct control and condescension, plans to crush her,
Speaker 1: want to treat her only commonly and respectfully to trying
Speaker 1: to become her friend. She's like Kwanda, so she really
Speaker 1: only respects working. I'm sorry, my hendring is terrible working.
Speaker 1: Three be nice because I'm bigger than her, or once
Speaker 1: I have her trust in friendship, slam the relationship door
Speaker 1: and shut in her face. She lnss blue animals, gardening, money, money, money,
Speaker 1: her kids, grandkids, working, cooking fingers, and hospitality. She sent
Speaker 1: him about her weight and appearance she either was physically
Speaker 1: abused our else mistreated, and her childhood basically all bosses
Speaker 1: want again. Elizabeth tried to hide her diary from the Wagoners,
Speaker 1: but they later found it and confronted her what they
Speaker 1: actually I think it was Angela Jake, and I feel
Speaker 1: like George was near life, possibly read up as well
Speaker 1: by I don't remember exactly that because some of the
Speaker 1: things for me wrote it because the media or the
Speaker 1: police or somebody might get a hold of what I
Speaker 1: had wrote, And so they asked if I would burn
Speaker 1: the journal and flush it down the toilet. It's all
Speaker 1: too it than I did the Wagner's demand for control
Speaker 1: over Elizabeth led to more threats against her life. Indicated
Speaker 1: it on wake, indicated cut out contact to see a way,
Speaker 1: um but forever a time where he told you what
Speaker 1: would happen? You wanted them showed up at your house? Yes?
Speaker 1: And what did he say? He said that he would
Speaker 1: kill them. Determined to leave, Elizabeth began making arrangements with
Speaker 1: her father to escape. On July sixth of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: less than four months after Mary and Jake, Elizabeth fled
Speaker 1: the Wagner's script, Can you tell us what happened on
Speaker 1: the day to do that? All my job? We all
Speaker 1: think the parking lot. I walked into the walmart, change
Speaker 1: my groves halfway through the walmart all that changing patient
Speaker 1: so that I wouldn't hold the same and left at
Speaker 1: the back through the entire section. Because I was pretty
Speaker 1: they were following me. I was concerned and go into
Speaker 1: the rented car, picked the same corn out of my
Speaker 1: phone because I was concerned I was being tracked. My
Speaker 1: father was there in the car and we drove down
Speaker 1: a bunch of starn roads and hid in the car
Speaker 1: for a period of time. And then when we knew
Speaker 1: we weren't being followed. We drove to a restaurant where
Speaker 1: I switched you goals. My friend depicted me up and
Speaker 1: took mean the rest of the way to Virginia. Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Armor fled the Wagners and initiated a divorce George. Wagner's
Speaker 1: defense team cross examined her and questioned Elizabeth about her
Speaker 1: relationship with George and how serious a person he was.
Speaker 1: We didn't really know him at all in a Lass,
Speaker 1: I've earned that church, and did you have wall conversations
Speaker 1: with them at the truth? So you met him at
Speaker 1: the church once or twice, introduced him after Jake, after
Speaker 1: Jake had proposed to you, and then you helped. That's
Speaker 1: kind of the extent of your contact with George when
Speaker 1: you were a Lass. That's fair fairy enough, Okay. Soon
Speaker 1: after escaping to Virginia, Elizabeth testified she was contacted by
Speaker 1: BCI agents and asked note only about Angela and Jake,
Speaker 1: but also George. During cross examination, the defense question Armor
Speaker 1: about her interviews with BCI agents after she left the family,
Speaker 1: asking her whether she thought those threats were real during
Speaker 1: that interviews about George. Right during the interview in Virginia,
Speaker 1: and Virginia. Yes, and I think you that one of
Speaker 1: the things about doors right, sexas jokes? Is that right? Yes?
Speaker 1: As Elizabeth answers from across the courtroom, George Wagner has
Speaker 1: seen smiling. He seems to enjoy being described this way.
Speaker 1: These were drugs. Can't offendish except yes about women perhaps
Speaker 1: gets all right? Topics that you've disapproved them. He didn't
Speaker 1: pop right, They were quite crude, very right. You wanted
Speaker 1: the things about jewels, but then not one what he
Speaker 1: carried joels urch um, not alie, what you say these jewels?
Speaker 1: But he said other things. And then you came your
Speaker 1: an opinion that you've got he blow hard and we
Speaker 1: have to look up the definition of blow hard. But
Speaker 1: that sounds reasonable, okay. He was saying he really didn't
Speaker 1: that personal. Hey boss, I'm not sure if he meant
Speaker 1: them or not. I don't want to infer his meaning.
Speaker 1: And when you talked to the officers and for James,
Speaker 1: they asked, can you tell us about George? I think
Speaker 1: he told him is not your kind of person. He
Speaker 1: seems like a sweet kind of guy. Is not the
Speaker 1: kind of person I would feel safe because he's because
Speaker 1: of this subfest interest of hors. They're not discriminate choices
Speaker 1: in that area. That would be my reason for that
Speaker 1: feeling comfortable with definitely one of my reasons. Here's Jeff
Speaker 1: speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. What do you
Speaker 1: make of George kind of smiling, He shows so little
Speaker 1: emotion and he sort of lights up when he's talking
Speaker 1: about his sexist jokes and calling woman horse and stuff.
Speaker 1: Is that I mean, that must be. That's a pretty
Speaker 1: bad walk. It is, particularly when you're sitting there and
Speaker 1: you know you've got a panel of twelve people that
Speaker 1: are trying to decide what's going to happen with the
Speaker 1: rest of your life. You know, you're in a five
Speaker 1: year life. Literally. It's powerful in the sense that you
Speaker 1: see George's behavior exhibited before them. So if it wasn't
Speaker 1: accented before, then is damwell accented after that? When he
Speaker 1: smirks about this, maybe giggles a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: and you know in a very you know, the same
Speaker 1: way that some middle school child. It's like he has
Speaker 1: no self awareness at that point in town. He has
Speaker 1: no self awareness of what he's up. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a break, We'll be back in a moment. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few
Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages as he did medical missionary work,
Speaker 1: and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but
Speaker 1: he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted and to the
Speaker 1: point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but
Speaker 1: only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back.
Speaker 1: I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed
Speaker 1: to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1: If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. I will always hound you and
Speaker 1: haunt you. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello,
Speaker 1: Malcolm Glabell here, host of Revisionist History, a show about
Speaker 1: the overlooked and the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere
Speaker 1: else Like our ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the
Speaker 1: world's most focus college ranking system. Why not just throw
Speaker 1: in a few extra zeros or witness me after years
Speaker 1: of fancy public speaking, learning that I kind of have
Speaker 1: to start over. The tone that you had throughout the
Speaker 1: debate was very similar to some of the students that
Speaker 1: I do work with, and that's what I teach them
Speaker 1: not to do. We're making more revisionist history for you
Speaker 1: this year than ever from places all across this great
Speaker 1: country emergency rooms, huge theaters, small towns, and shooting righteous
Speaker 1: and you want to put your thumb up like the US,
Speaker 1: You're gonna pull the trigger with this finger here. Okay,
Speaker 1: listen to revisionist history on the iHeart radio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 1: Whitney Hill is going on here. Everyone has their limits.
Speaker 1: I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought
Speaker 1: it was just a really terrible immoral thing aligned they
Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no,
Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that
Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that lineouts Ricin, arn't Ricin,
Speaker 1: And somebody needs to just for once, give everybody the
Speaker 1: whole truth like this is evil and the only person
Speaker 1: who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just
Speaker 1: going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are
Speaker 1: the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to
Speaker 1: happen to speak out disgrace to our good. Evil po
Speaker 1: should be prosecuted when power corrupts. Conscience is the last
Speaker 1: line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things people
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what
Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away and
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl
Speaker 1: Harbor moment. Girl, You and I both know what it
Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York
Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what
Speaker 1: I've achieved. You know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting
Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you
Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable, is
Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe and share. George Wagner's defense attorney John Parker
Speaker 1: continue to press Elizabeth about whether or not she thought
Speaker 1: George was someone she took serious or someone who simply
Speaker 1: ran his mouth. Just a couple apartments about when BCI asked,
Speaker 1: were interviewing you in Virginia, so that would have been
Speaker 1: drive twenty eighteen after you left Hiles. They asked you
Speaker 1: about George in particular. They asked you when George specifically
Speaker 1: would talk about what he would do, what would he
Speaker 1: say that he was going to do with those people
Speaker 1: if he got his hands on them. I believe your
Speaker 1: response or was he would say things like I had
Speaker 1: my way, We wouldn't be hiding out like this. It
Speaker 1: would be stormy my drawing above, because how don't you
Speaker 1: know them knows? You know, just loos. The agent asked you,
Speaker 1: is that what you perceived them to be? Who didn't
Speaker 1: perceive them to be viable threats? You thought you? I
Speaker 1: thought they're just blost just like it. I didn't recall
Speaker 1: that in your name. But Elizabeth later corrected the defense
Speaker 1: lawyer and insisted that she was as scared of George
Speaker 1: Wagner as any of the others. When you lived Ohio
Speaker 1: back in twenty eighteen, you were seeing angel and j
Speaker 1: George is who I believe myself to be escaping from
Speaker 1: here again Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan. And do you
Speaker 1: think is she in effective witness for the prosecution. I
Speaker 1: think she is an excellent witness for the prosecution, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm friends with guys you will know. But to
Speaker 1: have this kind of circumstantial witness that's up there where
Speaker 1: they can kind of paint a picture of what life
Speaker 1: was like on the inside. You can have all the
Speaker 1: blood evidence in the world that you won't even have
Speaker 1: all the ballistic evidence that you want in the world.
Speaker 1: You can see bodies, rip the shreds, But when you
Speaker 1: have a person that survived good is there to tell
Speaker 1: the tale. She's potentially a nail on the cough. More
Speaker 1: on that next time. For more information on the case
Speaker 1: and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tui. Music by Jared Aston.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting
Speaker 1: a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband.
Speaker 1: There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be
Speaker 1: eligible bachelor's. One of them was a spot Barrenmout. On paper,
Speaker 1: he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacome.
Speaker 1: He shouted it to the point she went unconscious. I
Speaker 1: would call him and I would say, I know you
Speaker 1: killed my sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me.
Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name
Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a
Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression,
Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race
Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was
Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart
Speaker 1: Podcasts and Nomadic Engine. The acclaimed dramatic thriller returns Shock
Speaker 1: season two. He's like our ghost. We have an agreement
Speaker 1: to keep each other's secret. None of you are making
Speaker 1: decisions to keep the rest of us safe, which leaves me.
Speaker 1: I'm asking for your forgiveness after Shock season two, starring
Speaker 1: Sarah Wayne, Kelly's, David Harbor and Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Listen
Speaker 1: to Aftershock on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've
Speaker 1: been on the road, playing shows and seeing America through
Speaker 1: live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Season two
Speaker 1: of Sound of Our Town ten cities, twelve episodes every
Speaker 1: other Thursday, we explore the live music, venues and culture
Speaker 1: of a new American city. With each new episode, our
Speaker 1: tour continues into the kind of venues you want to
Speaker 1: get to when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle.
Speaker 1: Listen to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.