1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hi, I'm free and I'm rthy. We have 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: spent the last twenty years building and working at some 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: of the largest companies in the world. We worked with 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. When I see the people 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check Out 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: the Arth and Tree Arm show. That is a R 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: D HI and s R I R A M show. 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression. 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: But today not many people know about him. The race 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 34 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. She was 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: inside that house. She could tell you what it was like. 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: I mean, she told everybody what it was like to 38 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: live with the Wagers. I remember that they were stressed. 39 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: Decisions were typically made as a group. I was making 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: friends to leave the house immediately home of us for 41 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: the book. Okay, This is the Pikes of Massacre returned 42 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: to Pike County season four, episode seventeen, The Elizabeth Journals. 43 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with 44 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. As always, it's important to 45 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty to all charges. 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also 47 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony by 48 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: investigators and relatives have painted a dark picture of the 49 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: Wagner family and the contentious custody battle between Jake Wagner 50 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: and Anna Rodin over their daughter. Today, one of the 51 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: most mysterious and least known figures involved in the case 52 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: takes the stand Elizabeth Armor, Jake Wagner's ex wife, who 53 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: we met in Alaska. We've reached out to her before, 54 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: but had never spoken directly with her. We've only heard 55 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: from Elizabeth on the occasion she posted to social media. 56 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: Like Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's ex wife, Elizabeth is one 57 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: of the few people uniquely positioned to discuss the dynamics 58 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: of the close knit Wagner family. The murder trial of 59 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: George Wagner the fourth continued in Pike County today with 60 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: new testimony from the ex wife of Jake Wagner. It 61 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: was one of the most anticipated moments of George Wagner's trial. 62 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: When Elizabeth armor entered the courtroom, George Wagner's eyes followed her. 63 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: He glared as she walked across the room and took 64 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: her seat to be sworn in. Good morning, Good morning. 65 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: Sorry nervous. I've said this before. We give it a 66 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: lot of that particular chair, So we'll just speak this 67 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: solo and if I say anything that you don't want 68 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: to understand or the confusing question, just let me know that. Okay, 69 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: can you please see dr name and started last name. 70 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: My name is Elizabeth Armor. One last name is A. R. E. R. 71 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: The twenty nine year old spoke softly as she described 72 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: growing up in a religiously conservative community in eastern Tennessee 73 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: and what led to her move to Alaska. I grew 74 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: up in all Michelite community for most of my teen years, 75 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: and because of that, I did not have a high 76 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: school education, since they we go to eighth grade and 77 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: so from mine in from the same room that I 78 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: lived on that I had kind of grown up with 79 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: a little bit. We're working with the church there in 80 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: Alaska that had like a parish school, and so they 81 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: had offered to help me get my high school education 82 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: because I was interested in pursuing a more standard kind 83 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: of lifestyle. Even though Elizabeth wanted a more traditional life, 84 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: she still stayed close to her conservative religious roots and 85 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: attended a fundamentalist Baptist church in Alaska where she met 86 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: the Wagner's How did he come to start attending that church? 87 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: So that particular church was the church that my friends 88 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: from Tennessee were attending, and that is the church which 89 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: had the school as part of it. And the teachers 90 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: at that school were too good weeks classes after school 91 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: to help me get up to see this gd and 92 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: so I was going there just you know, because my 93 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: friends are Okay, we're very involved in the church about 94 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: the launch getting a MDDU. I worked in the nursery sometimes, 95 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: and I say the choir because I loved to sing um. 96 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: I helped one of the teachers of a like a 97 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 1: Christmas program. This is the church for them. Okay, while 98 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: you were there in Attenne Matt Church, did you come 99 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: to learn or know some individuals known as the family. 100 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: I did. The Wagner family moved from Ohio to Alaska 101 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: in the summer of twenty seventeen, a little more than 102 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: a year after the murders. Elizabeth met them through the 103 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: church shortly after they arrived. And would your first encounter 104 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: with one more My first memory of the Linners was 105 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: Jake and Angela. Maybe people badly, but I just remember 106 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: Jake and Angela and the children walking into church, and 107 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: I remember thinking they were a couple with the child. Okay, 108 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: I think you have any interactions with them at that 109 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: time or would accas an observation. It's just an observation, okay. 110 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: And then with their another time where you had another 111 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: awareness of that they're one of their, one or more 112 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: of them. So my next memory of the whatever's one 113 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: so that I had come out of the nursery for 114 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: taking care of the children, and I looked down the 115 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: hallway and looked like Jake was at the other end 116 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: in the hallway kind of noticing me, And then remember 117 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: like feeling nervous. But I didn't really have experience with 118 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: any kind of dating or anything like that, so I 119 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: thought made him was attracted to him because I was. 120 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: It was just an intense faway. Jake later found her 121 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: on Facebook and asked Elizabeth out. Despite her interest in Jake, 122 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: Elizabeth told him she wasn't comfortable going out with someone 123 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: she didn't know. So what happened next? So he made 124 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: a point of introducing himself to me personally next time 125 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: when he was at church and wanted to chat with 126 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: me in the gym. Soon after Jake and Elizabeth began dating. 127 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: Their life as a couple revolved around the church and 128 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: the small community they lived in. Sometimes we would go 129 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: out and get meals just for local. I wasnaying with 130 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: Bassood restaurants. I remember getting ice cream, him thinking for walks, 131 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: and you would sometimes just go for a drive. Okay, 132 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: was there a point where you learned that there were 133 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: some negative information? We've already Jay and the same way, Yes, 134 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: so assuring me that they're the leman started coming to 135 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: the church. The pastor of the church shut up basically 136 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: in front of the church and Um, saying that he 137 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: had known them in Ohio and that there was some 138 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: kind of news story out about UM, and that they 139 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: had been bothered by the news, and that because they'd 140 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: been bothered by the news they moved to Ohio to 141 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: Alaska and that we should not really pay attention to 142 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: the news about them and just welcome them into the community. 143 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: And did you also asked for you? Jake offered an 144 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: explanation of it as well. He did, and what did 145 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: he for you? Back? He said, basically what the pastor 146 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: had that his family had been had good by the 147 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: news media, that they had there was some scandal where 148 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: you grew up. That was I think ex girlfriend had 149 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: been murdered and that people were putting him over suspicion 150 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: because he had dated her, and that that was one 151 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: who was the news story act. Okay, again, did you 152 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: did you more? Exactly exclamations from the pastor and from Jake. 153 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: I did because the family I was loving with was 154 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: ex law enforcement, and so they talked with them about 155 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: it and they said that basically, if there had been 156 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: any truth to these stories, they would have already been 157 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: rested since it had been two years time. As Jake 158 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: and Elizabeth's relationship grew more serious, Elizabeth meant more of 159 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: his family. She also witnessed firsthand the family dynamics. So 160 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: when they met them, basically, what I remember from going 161 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: to their house. Was that everybody was yelling. That was 162 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: my imperfriend and everybody was yelling and he said there 163 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: was yeah, tell me about that. Um well, just seemed 164 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 1: like everybody was really angry and stressed and that they 165 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: were all shouting. I hadn't really heard people shout that 166 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: loudly in my life. Um. And I remember Jake saying 167 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: that they were stressed and that you know, and getting 168 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: was stressed. Okay, and Katie tell us, Um was there 169 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: a point where who were relationship got a serious? Jake? 170 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: Nine months after I met him, he asked me to 171 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: marry him. Initially, Jake promised Elizabeth a long engagement so 172 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: they could continue to get to know each other, but 173 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: according to Elizabeth, he kept changing his timeline and pressured 174 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: her to marry quickly, so Jacob changing the dial wine 175 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: so like. Initially he said it would be engaged for 176 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: two years, and then as time went on, he kept 177 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: giving reasons why, ah, well, we have to move the 178 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: data all you have to move the data, and he 179 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: just kept doing that over and over and over and over, 180 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: and you know, harry him in the middle of making 181 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: what he plans and then suddenly I have to move 182 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: and I'm busy and trying to manage everything, and he 183 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: just kept my day offlah blah blah until literally it 184 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: was twenty one month after and ultimately what was the 185 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: reason as to why it happy that time? He said 186 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: that he was moving and that knowing basically there was 187 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: break it off or coming with them, Jake told Elizabeth 188 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: his entire family planned on moving to a farm in 189 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: Missouri to raise camels and pigs, and that they would 190 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: have to get married quickly, which they did. He tell us, 191 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: what happened your wedding night? Since I grew up Polish, 192 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: basically I wasn't actually elish what I grew up in 193 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: that kind of lifestyle, that community, very similar lifestyle. I 194 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: had to David anybody and didn't have any experience with men, 195 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: and so I had requested in no on certain terms 196 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: that we not consummate marriage on that night, which Jake 197 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: had averred too, but did not honor. After forcing Elizabeth 198 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: to have sex on their wedding night, Elizabeth says, Jake 199 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: demanded access to all of her personal information. And would 200 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: you say he asked for your personal information? What kind 201 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: of personal information are you talking about? I think account 202 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: access numbers, and my sols a security card numbers, my 203 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: phone pass code, and at the same time, you also, 204 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: like saint my phone with his so that he could 205 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: see all of my calls intense. She also had to 206 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 1: sign agreements prior or any time. Yes, I remember in 207 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: Glone then asking me to sign a paper that basically 208 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: my understanding was that was to keep me from trying 209 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: to get custody of any event of a divorce, any what, 210 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: any event of lone divorce. Okay, you did actually sign, correct, 211 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: I did. But Jake Wagner's desire to control his new 212 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: wife didn't stop there on your wedding night. Did he 213 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: also discuss with you that you should not have contact 214 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: with the feeling He did and tell me about that. 215 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: So two of my brothers um in their early childhood 216 00:14:54,680 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: and secually experimented with me. I was quite young. My 217 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: family didn't have sex education, so they were both of 218 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: them under the age of ten, and so the first 219 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: one had kind of approached me inappropriately when I was 220 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: three or four years old, and then not a lot 221 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: of completely different occasions when I was abound seven years old. 222 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: Because of that, Jake asked me to cut contact with 223 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: my family on my wedding night, your entire family or 224 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: just two stars. I remember it asked my entire family. 225 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: The day after the wedding, all of the Wagners accept 226 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: its newest member, Elizabeth, left by car from Missouri A 227 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: week later after sorting out her passport. Elizabeth joined the 228 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: entire family Jake, George, Angela, Billy, and the children living 229 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: in one small, cramed hotel room. Elizabeth was horrified at 230 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: the living situation and tried to leave, but when she 231 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: left the overcrowded hotel room to call her brother for help, 232 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: Jake found her and brought her back. So when I 233 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: got back to the hotel room, everybody was agitated. Angela, George, 234 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: Jake that kind of confronted me about having left the 235 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: room by myself, And I said that it wasn't really 236 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: safe for me to leave the room by myself because 237 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: news reporters might be, you know, bother me, or I 238 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: need to talk to any more something like that than 239 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: I needed to only room with some with me. The 240 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: Wagner's time in Missouri was short, even though Jake promised 241 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: Elizabeth they would never move back to Ohio because of 242 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: the news coverage and the police investigation. The family returned 243 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: a few days after failing to find a farm in Missouri. 244 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: I was unhappy about it because Jaco basically promised me 245 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: we were never going back to Ohio because of the 246 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: news story. But after being in the hotel for days 247 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: on it, I thought anything might be better. That's okay. 248 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: Life in Ohio was just as cramped and chaotic as ever, 249 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: with the entire Wagner family living under one roof, tensions 250 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 1: were always near a boiling point. Can you describe to 251 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: as the family guardianics when you were living there? With that? 252 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: Between Jake and George and Angela, probably they back with 253 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: each other. How are decisions made all that? Okay? So? Can? 254 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: Usually interactions were strength as far as I remember, they 255 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: were usually highly stress and emotional angry um Again, the 256 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: shadow continued. The decisions were typically made as a group, 257 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: so they would discuss what they're going to do communism 258 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: and then that's how anybody would do. They make group decisions. 259 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: Though she was now a member of the Wagner family, 260 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: Elizabeth was often asked to leave the room. Angela and 261 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: George Wagner particularly did not trust her. Can you tell 262 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: us about those discussions weird with her? How did her. 263 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: Usually they would happen in the kitchen. Um I wasn't 264 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: usually asked to join them. I just remember that I 265 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: would hear people discussing things in the kitchen, and because 266 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: it was so loud, hear people talking all about what 267 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: they're going to do, what their plans were, um, how 268 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: they were going to answer certain questions where people ask them, 269 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: how have we done in certain finances? All that in 270 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: the kitchen. So those were the general ties you hear 271 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: the assess they were talking about finances, how they would 272 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: answer media questions. I think of that whole they were 273 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: mentioning BCLI questions or police questions about the children, are 274 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: about their clothes of shoes? Are angeris about the children? Yeah, okay, 275 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: here's Stephanie and Jeff. She makes mention of growing up 276 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: kind of amish like in her words, and I assume 277 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: that means that she was a bit insulated and that 278 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: she was maybe raised in a bit of a bubble. 279 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: And on the one hand, that would make her a 280 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: prime target for a family of predators because she's potentially 281 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: naive and unaware of the outside world. And on the 282 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: other side of that, we've also heard rumors that some 283 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: of the Wagoners were very paranoid that she was working 284 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: for law enforcement from day one, and they just didn't 285 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: trust her. So the fact that she's opted in to 286 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: be recorded and have video to tell her story is 287 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: dremely big and very brave. Obviously, we can't know what 288 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: she's feeling, but to face George Wagner in court and 289 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: to put her face and likeness out there. I think 290 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: says a lot about where she is. It's also interesting Steph. 291 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: Obviously we don't know what George Wagner was feeling, but 292 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: we do know that he rarely looks up or shows 293 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: any sort of emotion, and he definitely looked up at 294 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: Elizabeth and almost looked like he was glaring, and he 295 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: then tracked her as she walked into the courtroom. So 296 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: if we're trying to surmise what he might be feeling, 297 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: he definitely has some strong feelings about the fact that 298 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: she's testified. One discussion stuck out. Elizabeth remembered the Wagners 299 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: talking about creating a bulletproof bulldozer to knock down prison 300 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: walls if any of the Wagner's landed in jail, and 301 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: she remembered them talking about key aspects of the investigation, 302 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: tell us what discussion did you hear about. I mostly 303 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: remember them talking about pensions and saying something about like 304 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: something A thought Angela and had bought tennis shoes her Walmart, 305 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: but that was ridiculous because they wore boots, and they 306 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: kind of like impressed that only multiple times, like do 307 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: you think even buying tennis shoes and boots because we 308 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: were boots and they mentioned it multiple times. Going back 309 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: to your living with the Wagers, didn't you whatever had 310 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: conversations with you about the sexual relations you were having 311 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: with Jake and yes, okay, And can you remember what 312 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: she what specification discussed? So I remember her asking if 313 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: Jake and I were trying to have childs and telling 314 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: me that it wasn't a good time for to have 315 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: your child. And I remember her asking if Jakie and 316 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: I had sexual relations with room, and I remember her 317 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: suggesting that that was inappropriate. And I remember jakeing my 318 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: having that discussion, and I remember telling him that I 319 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: did not think it was appropriate and that he did 320 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: not listen. So you basically read that as a great reate. Yes, 321 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: can you expect that, Jake? Yes, Aela ever a huge 322 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: of things we already, I went, yes, if I remember, 323 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: it was food poisoning. She const me above TI intentionally 324 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: food poisoned the children, And was there a time when 325 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: she yes, there was a time when it was thought 326 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: to my attention, my Jake, that she said that I 327 00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: had inappropriately touched and can you tell us what happened 328 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: as a result of that? So when Jay came to 329 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: me and told me that Islam believed that I had 330 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: touched inappropriately, I was also informed that because of that alviation, 331 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: George wasn't comfortable with my living in the house and 332 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: then I needed to go somewhere else. I can you 333 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: tell us did you ever have a conversation with both 334 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: Jakie and Angela about these specific alliations and can you 335 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: tell us what happened during that conversation or what we said. 336 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: Elizabeth described this heated conversation as the final showdown between 337 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: her and the Wagner family and the moment she knew 338 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: she had to get away from them as soon as possible. 339 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: Jake so that he didn't believe I had done it, 340 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: but that you know, I need to explain myself because 341 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: Angela believed that I had appropriately She was acting very 342 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: high mighty so this week, and I was very shocked, 343 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: and I remember Jake questioning you very started me, like 344 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: did you do this? And he laid it out very 345 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: clearly to me that if I had done it, that 346 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: that the right thing to do would be to create 347 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: Lucille the baseball bath from the Walking Dead and string 348 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: me up in the barn, beat me to death with 349 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: the baseball bat both was the barn, Dad, and hunt 350 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: down and kill my BM. I mean, he didn't do it. 351 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: If his mom would do it. If his mom didn't 352 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: do it, his dad would do it, or George would 353 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: do it, or Billy or you know. He just guessed 354 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: any of them would be willing to do this to 355 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: Elizabeth says she went to her room, packed her bag 356 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: and called a friend for help. I was making friends 357 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:28,479 Speaker 1: to leave the house immediately, right, Okay, we're going to 358 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 359 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 360 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 361 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 362 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 363 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 364 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: He really wasn't, he shouted into the point she went unconscious. 365 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 366 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 367 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 368 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 369 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 370 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 371 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 372 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 373 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 374 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Gladwell here, host 375 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the 376 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our ongoing 377 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college 378 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: ranking system, why not just throw in a few extra 379 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking, 380 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: learning that I kind of have to start over. The 381 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: tolle that you have throughout the debate was very similar 382 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: to some of the students that I do work with 383 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: and that's what I teach them not to do. We're 384 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: making more revisionist history for you this year than ever 385 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, 386 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 387 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: your thumb up like us, You're gonna pull the trigger 388 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: with this finger here, Okay, listen to revisionist history on 389 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get 390 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is going on 391 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: in here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a 392 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: situation like this. I just thought it was just a 393 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: really terrible immoral thing, a ligne they won't cross. I 394 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 395 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you 396 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thou art ricin and somebody 397 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth 398 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: is evil, and the only person who can sound the 399 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently 400 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you 401 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: are disloyal, thinks are going to happen to this week 402 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: out disgrace to our cut evil place should be prosecuted. 403 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 404 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 405 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's 406 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of 407 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my Awart winning 408 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,239 Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to 409 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have 410 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. 411 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. 412 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: They will take things away, and I can only hope 413 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, You 414 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: and I both know what it took to just get 415 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: through the day in New York City and get home 416 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: in one piece. And so the fact that we're here 417 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 418 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 419 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 420 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking 421 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne 422 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 423 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. 424 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Armor was determined to flee Jake and the rest 425 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: of the Wagoners. Elizabeth began pushing back against the Wagner's rules, 426 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: taking walks to the library and the local cemetery. She 427 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: also kept a diary tural and one if you could 428 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: go ahead and looking at and first of all, tell 429 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: me if that is what is showing on this screen 430 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: in part US one of my journal entries, okay, if 431 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: you go ahead and be three that for USA is 432 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: in your Granddaddy. The people I live with are all right, 433 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: I guess They're constantly yelling and hitting, and not one 434 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: of them understands the concept or need for privacy. Even 435 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: the most private of all human doings are open for 436 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: discussion and comment. In this family, it grates on my nerves. Also, 437 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: nobody seems to understand basic ownership. Okay, And he tells us, 438 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: is that one of the journal entries that we could 439 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: waiting that was discovered by other people living in the home. Yes, 440 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: and were you seeing about them in natural country. So 441 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: speaking about George Jake Angela gruge chicken Angela. Yeah, okay. 442 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: The prosecution then asked Elizabeth to read another entry about 443 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: the Wagner family. Dear Granddaddy, I try so hard not 444 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: to hate people. Proof of this is that out of 445 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: my entire crazy big family, there are only two people 446 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: I truly hate. But now Granddaddy, there are Free Daniel 447 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: Isaac Angela. I'm going to call her miss Angela because 448 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: of the name hits her anyways. Miss Angela is horrible 449 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: for all these reasons. One she married unwisely and believes 450 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: all marriages destined to end like hers. Two she has 451 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: her fingers and my husband's pocketbook and makes exorbitant demands 452 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: on his salary, holding her own quote unquote gifts and 453 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: help over his head like a clove to emphasize her demands. 454 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: Three she has more say over my life right now 455 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: than I do because she controls my husband through his child. 456 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: Four she verbally abuses and yells insinuations at my husband, 457 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: which he doesn't understand what I do. Five she dislikes 458 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: and ridicules books, and she because well how to read 459 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: less that that says. Six because she is a manipulative. 460 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: She is teaching our daughters to manipulate and lie. Seven. 461 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: My husband would listen to her far rather than to me, 462 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: because she has raised his daughter thus far. Eight. She 463 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: believes me to be a replica of Tabby and treats 464 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: me as such. She has insinuated several arms that she 465 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: expects me to poison her. Nine she has repeatedly declared 466 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: that she will see to it that will always peeper 467 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: her to be with her and never accept me as 468 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: her mamma. Key. She has threatened my husband with custody battles. Eleven. 469 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: The most horrible thing is I have her totally within 470 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: my power. All I would have to do would be 471 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: to tell people she did it to get away from 472 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: her abused mother, and I would get her the lifetime 473 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: sentence like that. The only thing is much as I 474 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: hate the woman Scots, it would not be true. Twelve. 475 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: She loves and encourages boys Obeski. Thirteen. She treats the 476 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: children second, work first and kids second, continuing the same 477 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: donory entry to me to read a Thirteen. She keeps 478 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: tabs on me, always watching and listening to see where 479 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: I am. Thirteen I'm having to live in her house 480 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: under her direct control and condescension, plans to crush her, 481 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: want to treat her only commonly and respectfully to trying 482 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,959 Speaker 1: to become her friend. She's like Kwanda, so she really 483 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: only respects working. I'm sorry, my hendring is terrible working. 484 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: Three be nice because I'm bigger than her, or once 485 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: I have her trust in friendship, slam the relationship door 486 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: and shut in her face. She lnss blue animals, gardening, money, money, money, 487 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: her kids, grandkids, working, cooking fingers, and hospitality. She sent 488 00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: him about her weight and appearance she either was physically 489 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: abused our else mistreated, and her childhood basically all bosses 490 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: want again. Elizabeth tried to hide her diary from the Wagoners, 491 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: but they later found it and confronted her what they 492 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: actually I think it was Angela Jake, and I feel 493 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: like George was near life, possibly read up as well 494 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: by I don't remember exactly that because some of the 495 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: things for me wrote it because the media or the 496 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: police or somebody might get a hold of what I 497 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: had wrote, And so they asked if I would burn 498 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: the journal and flush it down the toilet. It's all 499 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: too it than I did the Wagner's demand for control 500 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: over Elizabeth led to more threats against her life. Indicated 501 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: it on wake, indicated cut out contact to see a way, 502 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: um but forever a time where he told you what 503 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: would happen? You wanted them showed up at your house? Yes? 504 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 1: And what did he say? He said that he would 505 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: kill them. Determined to leave, Elizabeth began making arrangements with 506 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: her father to escape. On July sixth of twenty eighteen, 507 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,399 Speaker 1: less than four months after Mary and Jake, Elizabeth fled 508 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: the Wagner's script, Can you tell us what happened on 509 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: the day to do that? All my job? We all 510 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: think the parking lot. I walked into the walmart, change 511 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: my groves halfway through the walmart all that changing patient 512 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: so that I wouldn't hold the same and left at 513 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: the back through the entire section. Because I was pretty 514 00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: they were following me. I was concerned and go into 515 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: the rented car, picked the same corn out of my 516 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: phone because I was concerned I was being tracked. My 517 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: father was there in the car and we drove down 518 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of starn roads and hid in the car 519 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: for a period of time. And then when we knew 520 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: we weren't being followed. We drove to a restaurant where 521 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: I switched you goals. My friend depicted me up and 522 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: took mean the rest of the way to Virginia. Elizabeth 523 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: Armor fled the Wagners and initiated a divorce George. Wagner's 524 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: defense team cross examined her and questioned Elizabeth about her 525 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: relationship with George and how serious a person he was. 526 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: We didn't really know him at all in a Lass, 527 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: I've earned that church, and did you have wall conversations 528 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: with them at the truth? So you met him at 529 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: the church once or twice, introduced him after Jake, after 530 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: Jake had proposed to you, and then you helped. That's 531 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: kind of the extent of your contact with George when 532 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: you were a Lass. That's fair fairy enough, Okay. Soon 533 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: after escaping to Virginia, Elizabeth testified she was contacted by 534 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: BCI agents and asked note only about Angela and Jake, 535 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: but also George. During cross examination, the defense question Armor 536 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 1: about her interviews with BCI agents after she left the family, 537 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 1: asking her whether she thought those threats were real during 538 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 1: that interviews about George. Right during the interview in Virginia, 539 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: and Virginia. Yes, and I think you that one of 540 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: the things about doors right, sexas jokes? Is that right? Yes? 541 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: As Elizabeth answers from across the courtroom, George Wagner has 542 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: seen smiling. He seems to enjoy being described this way. 543 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: These were drugs. Can't offendish except yes about women perhaps 544 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: gets all right? Topics that you've disapproved them. He didn't 545 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: pop right, They were quite crude, very right. You wanted 546 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: the things about jewels, but then not one what he 547 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: carried joels urch um, not alie, what you say these jewels? 548 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: But he said other things. And then you came your 549 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: an opinion that you've got he blow hard and we 550 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: have to look up the definition of blow hard. But 551 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: that sounds reasonable, okay. He was saying he really didn't 552 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 1: that personal. Hey boss, I'm not sure if he meant 553 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: them or not. I don't want to infer his meaning. 554 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 1: And when you talked to the officers and for James, 555 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: they asked, can you tell us about George? I think 556 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: he told him is not your kind of person. He 557 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: seems like a sweet kind of guy. Is not the 558 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: kind of person I would feel safe because he's because 559 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 1: of this subfest interest of hors. They're not discriminate choices 560 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: in that area. That would be my reason for that 561 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: feeling comfortable with definitely one of my reasons. Here's Jeff 562 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. What do you 563 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: make of George kind of smiling, He shows so little 564 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: emotion and he sort of lights up when he's talking 565 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 1: about his sexist jokes and calling woman horse and stuff. 566 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,879 Speaker 1: Is that I mean, that must be. That's a pretty 567 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: bad walk. It is, particularly when you're sitting there and 568 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 1: you know you've got a panel of twelve people that 569 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: are trying to decide what's going to happen with the 570 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,839 Speaker 1: rest of your life. You know, you're in a five 571 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: year life. Literally. It's powerful in the sense that you 572 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: see George's behavior exhibited before them. So if it wasn't 573 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: accented before, then is damwell accented after that? When he 574 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: smirks about this, maybe giggles a little bit, you know, 575 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: and you know in a very you know, the same 576 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: way that some middle school child. It's like he has 577 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: no self awareness at that point in town. He has 578 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: no self awareness of what he's up. We're going to 579 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: take a break, We'll be back in a moment. Oh, 580 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. 581 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 582 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 583 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages as he did medical missionary work, 584 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but 585 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted and to the 586 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but 587 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 1: only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. 588 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. 589 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,760 Speaker 1: I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed 590 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. 591 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,759 Speaker 1: If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. 592 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 593 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. I will always hound you and 594 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: haunt you. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the 595 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, 596 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: Malcolm Glabell here, host of Revisionist History, a show about 597 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: the overlooked and the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere 598 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: else Like our ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the 599 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: world's most focus college ranking system. Why not just throw 600 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,479 Speaker 1: in a few extra zeros or witness me after years 601 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: of fancy public speaking, learning that I kind of have 602 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: to start over. The tone that you had throughout the 603 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 1: debate was very similar to some of the students that 604 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 1: I do work with, and that's what I teach them 605 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: not to do. We're making more revisionist history for you 606 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 1: this year than ever from places all across this great 607 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 1: country emergency rooms, huge theaters, small towns, and shooting righteous 608 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: and you want to put your thumb up like the US, 609 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,720 Speaker 1: You're gonna pull the trigger with this finger here. Okay, 610 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,760 Speaker 1: listen to revisionist history on the iHeart radio app, Apple 611 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. 612 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: Whitney Hill is going on here. Everyone has their limits. 613 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought 614 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,319 Speaker 1: it was just a really terrible immoral thing aligned they 615 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, 616 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that 617 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that lineouts Ricin, arn't Ricin, 618 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: And somebody needs to just for once, give everybody the 619 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: whole truth like this is evil and the only person 620 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just 621 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are 622 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to 623 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: happen to speak out disgrace to our good. Evil po 624 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:35,919 Speaker 1: should be prosecuted when power corrupts. Conscience is the last 625 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers 626 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get 627 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 628 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember 629 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,839 Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's 630 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things people 631 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to 632 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what 633 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,800 Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away and 634 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,800 Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl 635 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 1: Harbor moment. Girl, You and I both know what it 636 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York 637 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the 638 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what 639 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: I've achieved. You know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting 640 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,239 Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you 641 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,239 Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable, is 642 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. 643 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, 644 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure 645 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: to subscribe and share. George Wagner's defense attorney John Parker 646 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,919 Speaker 1: continue to press Elizabeth about whether or not she thought 647 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: George was someone she took serious or someone who simply 648 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 1: ran his mouth. Just a couple apartments about when BCI asked, 649 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,839 Speaker 1: were interviewing you in Virginia, so that would have been 650 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 1: drive twenty eighteen after you left Hiles. They asked you 651 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:26,319 Speaker 1: about George in particular. They asked you when George specifically 652 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: would talk about what he would do, what would he 653 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,320 Speaker 1: say that he was going to do with those people 654 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 1: if he got his hands on them. I believe your 655 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:39,879 Speaker 1: response or was he would say things like I had 656 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: my way, We wouldn't be hiding out like this. It 657 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: would be stormy my drawing above, because how don't you 658 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,320 Speaker 1: know them knows? You know, just loos. The agent asked you, 659 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 1: is that what you perceived them to be? Who didn't 660 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: perceive them to be viable threats? You thought you? I 661 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:07,479 Speaker 1: thought they're just blost just like it. I didn't recall 662 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,720 Speaker 1: that in your name. But Elizabeth later corrected the defense 663 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 1: lawyer and insisted that she was as scared of George 664 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,280 Speaker 1: Wagner as any of the others. When you lived Ohio 665 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:24,880 Speaker 1: back in twenty eighteen, you were seeing angel and j 666 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: George is who I believe myself to be escaping from 667 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: here again Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan. And do you 668 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,239 Speaker 1: think is she in effective witness for the prosecution. I 669 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 1: think she is an excellent witness for the prosecution, you know, 670 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: and I'm friends with guys you will know. But to 671 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: have this kind of circumstantial witness that's up there where 672 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,720 Speaker 1: they can kind of paint a picture of what life 673 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,320 Speaker 1: was like on the inside. You can have all the 674 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,320 Speaker 1: blood evidence in the world that you won't even have 675 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,359 Speaker 1: all the ballistic evidence that you want in the world. 676 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 1: You can see bodies, rip the shreds, But when you 677 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,399 Speaker 1: have a person that survived good is there to tell 678 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 1: the tale. She's potentially a nail on the cough. More 679 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 1: on that next time. For more information on the case 680 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 1: and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 681 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 682 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,640 Speaker 1: Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. 683 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tui. Music by Jared Aston. 684 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and 685 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit 686 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,640 Speaker 1: the Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 687 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting 688 00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,279 Speaker 1: a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's 689 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. 690 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,840 Speaker 1: There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be 691 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,280 Speaker 1: eligible bachelor's. One of them was a spot Barrenmout. On paper, 692 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,760 Speaker 1: he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacome. 693 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 1: He shouted it to the point she went unconscious. I 694 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: would call him and I would say, I know you 695 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: killed my sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends on 696 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. 697 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 698 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,759 Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 699 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 700 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,400 Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, 701 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,359 Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race 702 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,160 Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 703 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,839 Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 704 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:55,120 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart 705 00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: Podcasts and Nomadic Engine. The acclaimed dramatic thriller returns Shock 706 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 1: season two. He's like our ghost. We have an agreement 707 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: to keep each other's secret. None of you are making 708 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,759 Speaker 1: decisions to keep the rest of us safe, which leaves me. 709 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm asking for your forgiveness after Shock season two, starring 710 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: Sarah Wayne, Kelly's, David Harbor and Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Listen 711 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,760 Speaker 1: to Aftershock on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 712 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,719 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've 713 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: been on the road, playing shows and seeing America through 714 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,040 Speaker 1: live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Season two 715 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: of Sound of Our Town ten cities, twelve episodes every 716 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: other Thursday, we explore the live music, venues and culture 717 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 1: of a new American city. With each new episode, our 718 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: tour continues into the kind of venues you want to 719 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,000 Speaker 1: get to when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. 720 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: Listen to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, 721 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,480 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.