WEBVTT - Fire Drill 097: The Great Rollback Debate - PART 1 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.560 This is a big deal. We are talking about people 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.680 who pay to play. You're making rules because of what 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.360 you see based on people who get paid to play, 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.639 that impact the people who pay to play. That's a 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:20.400 bad decision. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:23.680 I got bouncing my head. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:29.120 Can't get him jh. Not to think what I'm thinking about. 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:34.440 Got bouncing my head. Can't get them out, joh, not 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.760 the thing what I'm thinking about. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.880 Hello, this is allan schipnook back for another Fire Drill podcast. 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.280 It's a big day in golf with the rollback announcement 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.480 by the USGA. There's a lot to talk about. We've 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.920 convened an all star panel of Matt Janella and Michael Bamberg. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.040 We're hoping to get esteemed architect and thinker Michael Clayton. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.559 He was supposed to be here now he may buzz 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.840 it at any moment. We'll patch him through. But there's 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.160 a lot to talk about real quick before we get 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.120 to the news of the day and what it means. Matt, 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.080 why don't you tip your cap to our corporate sponsors here? 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.280 Oh, I mean, you know you've heard it before, you've 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.200 listened to this podcast. But obviously link soul and that 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.720 lifestyle brand that you know I'm proud to be affiliated 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.319 with and to where you know on and off the 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.360 golf course. Go to link soul dot com use fire 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.240 Pit twenty five for twenty five percent off your next 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.119 purchase of all Links Soul gear. I'm especially a fond 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:45.399 of the flat brims and the hoodies, regardless of my age. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:51.680 And the Dormy Workshop, the company that does fine leather 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.760 goods and does our head covers and anything else that 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.960 we make made of leather. They're just simply, in my opinion, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.720 the best in the business. And we also have a 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:08.720 promo code fire Pit fifteen for fifteen percent off your 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.920 next purchase on dormy workshop dot com. 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:14.160 Awesome, All right, let's get to it. 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.880 There's a lot to talk about here, and Michael, you 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.280 wrote a very thoughtful piece for five by Collective dot 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.840 Com sticking out a little bit of a middle ground 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.320 that the rollback was necessary, but it's not going to 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.440 have a cataclysmic effect on all of us now that 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.359 it's here, now it's official. What does this mean for 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.440 the professional game and then for guys like us? 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:45.160 Uncharacteristically, Alan you understated, I think I'll have no impact 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.920 on us. The three of us on this conversation, and 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.600 little I think there's they split say there's sixty nine golfers, 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.160 literally fifty nine point nine to nine million golfers. They 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.600 will have no effect. You'll never know the difference, just 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.680 like I would say to the three of us, if 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.519 you get a top flight in a pro v one, 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.120 we can barely tell the difference in terms of distance, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.480 in terms of click and everything else. So I think, 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.600 but in terms of what they really wanted to do 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.440 to have an impact on the best golfers in the 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.839 world and make I think this is their real goal, 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:16.360 make classic classic golf course is still meaningful at meaningful 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.799 park lives and the rest thirteenth, Augusta National and many 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.400 other examples. I don't think it's going to do it 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.000 at all. 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.160 I mean, you're Matt. Your point is, if they're going 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.160 to do it, they didn't go far enough right. They 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.560 should have rolled it back more if they were going 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:30.120 to do it. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.359 To Michael's point, like then why are we doing Like then, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.240 why are we Why are we going through this? What 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:42.680 is actually happening right now? What is being done? What 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.320 just got announced in twenty twenty three, that's going to 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:49.880 go to effect in twenty twenty, like the none of this, 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.880 you know, makes any sense to me, So I'm just 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.040 not you know, it's such a small percentage of people 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.920 that it's apparently going to impact, but then it's also 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.760 eventually going to end packed some of us. But by 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.000 the time we get to twenty thirty, I'm already dealing 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.600 with rollback. It's called age. Like everybody's going through it. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.160 Tiger Woods is going through it. Phil Mickelson is fighting 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.120 the fight of being able to actually still say he 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.840 hits bombs. Like the longest hitters aren't winning or dominating, 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.640 They're playing a different brand of golf. There's you know, 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:28.279 none of this. Is it that one hundred and fiftieth 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.640 Open that we were there at Saint Andrew's in which 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.480 guys were driving the eighteenth with a threewood in you know, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.960 burnt out conditions in a summer stretch of time in 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.640 Scotland in which the fairways rolling faster than the greens. 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:47.320 Was that so optically unsettling to them that they were like, 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.479 that's it, we have to do it. What is going 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:51.160 on right now? 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.160 I mean, I think the answer and Mike One has 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:56.919 said this in it's sort of a sensible way, is 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.880 we had to do something. We can't do nothing, because 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.080 if you project seven years from now when guys are 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:07.240 driving it, three seventy three, eighty three, ninety four hundred, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.920 whatever the norm was going to become, if it went 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.320 completely unchecked, like they had to draw the proverbial line 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:15.000 in the sand. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.480 And maybe this is just the opening salvo. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:20.760 If the USGA had come and said we're going to 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.200 roll it back twenty five percent for the pros or 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.880 thirty percent, there would have been mutiny and anarchy. We're 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.680 already sort of seeing that a little bit. But maybe 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.960 they start with this rollback and then they keep dialing 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.719 it back a little bit more so the old courses 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.359 and the marions and those courses can be relevant. Again, 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.520 I don't know that to be true, but I think 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.479 they had to set some kind of precedent that we're 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.760 still the sheriff of this game, that we still. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.240 Need a little bit of law and order. 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.799 And you know, there's that legal term splitting the baby, 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.279 where you kind of come to a compromise it's not 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.160 really satisfactory to either side. 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:56.200 It's a little bit like that. 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.840 It wasn't enough of a rollback, but it's something and 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.880 everybody's mad. But at least they've started the governance process, 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.279 so that would be my answer to your question is 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.039 what is happening is they had to start somewhere, and 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:11.000 this is where they started. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:12.120 This may not be the end. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.160 Now what have you done with Alan Schipnak out there 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.320 on the west coast? When did it get so measured 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:22.960 and reasonable? This is very weird slash unsettling. But I 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.400 do agree with everything Alan said. I truly despite everything 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.800 I said before, I truly do agree with everything Alan said. 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:29.560 You do have to have a line on this end, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.120 and you can't just let it keep escalating. And if 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.080 this is a line of the sand, which I don't 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:38.320 really believe it will be, it's better than nothing. But 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.920 I think, at the risk of repeating myself, they didn't 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:43.560 or maybe this is saying a new thing. I don't 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:48.200 think they really identified the problem and the problem. You know, Matt, 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.000 HiT's the long way, and you do too, Alan, but 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:50.880 that is. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:51.440 Not the problem. 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.560 You're not going to abandon dunes and the part five 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.080 so are obsolutely the problem is super super narrow. It's 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.599 golf on TV at the best courses in the world. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:01.680 I don't know the numbers that Nicholas said it, but 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.320 Nicholas said, you know there used to be that someone 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.040 could help me here. Maybe you know, there used to 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.760 be five in your courses that could in the world, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.160 that could hold major championships. Now there's one hundred, whatever 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.080 the numbers are, but it's something on the order of that, 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.960 and that's not good for golf. You know, these great 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.800 old courses are worth preserving. And if they don't have 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.000 legitimate part fives and you know, two shot part fours, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.720 then they sort of the game gets it's a lesser 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.480 game actually without the old courses and the marriage being meaningful. 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.040 Well, and this also it speaks to this how this 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.920 process was so messy because you know, Matt, you've you've 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.920 been pretty forceful on social media that this is the 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.440 wrong time for a rollback for the amateur golfer as 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.040 the game is exploding in popularity, as we were bringing 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.400 all kinds of new people to game, and the message 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.400 now is we want to make it harder for you. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.280 That's a bad message. You know, bifurcation was on the table. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:56.440 That would have made sense. You could have you could 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.160 have throttled back the pros as much as you want 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:03.360 and not messed with the rest of us. But the 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:09.040 ball manufacturers didn't want that, and they control the players well, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:13.080 I mean because they take their cues from the manufacturers 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.400 who pay the bills. So the pros and the manufacturers 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.520 killed by furcation, and so then that sort of backed 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.880 the USGA into a corner, like, if we're gonna do anything, 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.720 it's got to be for everybody now, So it's ironic 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:29.040 that we could have had a sensible solution that don't 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.560 touch the amateurs, just deal with this very tiny subset 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.720 of golfers who do smash the you know, ungodly distances, 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.520 But the manufacturers and the players killed that the tour players. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:41.839 So now. 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.440 Now it's affecting all of us. But the crazy thing 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.960 is the PGA Tour and the pg of America have 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.880 kind of signaled they're not into this, and certainly Live 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:52.000 Golf is not gonna be into it. 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:53.040 So we may get into this. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.599 Bizarro world scenario where the professional circuits opt out of 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.640 this and they choose not to follow this rule, but 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.000 it affects the amates. So all the pros have unchecked distance, 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.600 but the amateurs are getting penalized like that makes my 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.440 brain hurt. There's a long way to get to that moment, 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.600 but it's theoretically possible, and that's insanity. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:18.160 Well so so so okay, all of that being said, 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:25.360 and the USGA trying to ultimately protect let's say, their championships, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.920 and the RNA trying to protect their Open championship and venues, 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.680 and why don't they Why don't they just simply then 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.680 get into the business of making a tournament ball, much 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.040 like what people wanted Augusta to do several years ago 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.440 at the Masters, to say, create a tournament ball and 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.120 say this is the ball you're gonna have to play 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.400 at my championship or mid championships in the case of 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.120 the RNA and the and the USGA, and say, in 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.360 order to play this championship, you have to play this ball. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.120 And then they're going they then you take the manufacturer 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.439 is out of the equation. You control your situation as 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.880 it relates to your championships, which is the only place 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:13.160 that any of this actually matters, and just isolate that 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.280 situation and say and do whatever you want, make the 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.760 rules that you want to have people to adhere to, 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.240 and then let everybody else decide if that's something they 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.240 want to do at their tournament, at their course, in 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.280 their search coumstensus, not unlike, you know, let's go all 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:30.880 the way down to go Hill Park in the Wishbone 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.600 bral where John Asher says in order to have the 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.800 course record, you have to play Per Simmons, and the 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.320 Wishbone Ball brawl is played with Per Simmons and men 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.240 play against women. And it's all, you know, like, there 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:46.679 is ways to do this that simply you know, blanket 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.520 statements and doing these this rule rule changes and rollbacks 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:55.520 to the masses just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.280 what No, seriously, let's get back. Why wouldn't they just 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.959 do that and make ball. They're sitting on it, piles 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.640 of cash. They've used these championships to raise the money 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.240 to you know, they have the money, go make. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:09.640 You own ball. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.240 I mean, it's it makes sense except the most important tournaments. 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:21.280 And now you're if the players, you know, twenty five 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.000 weeks a year, are you using a different ball on 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.040 the tour because they don't want to give up that 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.679 competitive advantage because other guys are using it. Then you 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:30.400 come to the Masters of the US Open. It's the 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.920 most important championship. You got to learn this new ball 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.760 and then you know, it's it's to be fun. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.560 It'd be interesting. It'd be a great talking point. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.439 But baseball, you go to a different field. You got 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.080 to hit it further and right field, then you have 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.320 to go to left field. You've got you know that's true. 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.600 I mean in tennis, you know, tennis is messed with 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.360 the ball different on different surfaces and different things like 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.000 it wouldn't be unprecedented, they would just be. It would 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:53.839 be a big deal. It would be a sea change. 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.560 I mean, I would love this. It's a big deal. 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.760 This is a big deal. We are talking about people 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.880 who pay to play. You're making rules because of what 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.560 you see based on people who get paid to play 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.880 that impact the people who pay to play. That's a 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.560 bad decision. This is your client, tele this is your customer. 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.439 This These are the people thirty years ago that you 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.160 would have given anything to have them show up and 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.880 pay to play this game. And they're here now and 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.600 we're saying and we're going to shut the door on 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.880 their face and say, uh sorry, I know the game 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.040 is hard. It's really hard. That's why the game is 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.560 so hard that things like top golf and Part three 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:41.360 courses and short courses, and that that's the actual trend 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.440 that's happening right now. Sustainability issues, well, guess what the 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:49.200 game is already shrinking, grasses are improving, pottable water is 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.040 going away and more. The trend is to reclaim water 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.800 to water these golf courses. So throw the sustainability stuff 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.280 out and it's going to correct itself by water prices 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.320 and everything that else is involved. This is not the 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.480 solution to anything related to sustainability. This is not the 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.400 solution to grow the game. And all the marketing efforts 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.120 that you've put forward governing bodies to try to get 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:15.160 us there, all of that is now a massive contradiction 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.880 and a big, unnecessary pr nightmare that we're all going 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.240 to have to endure for the next tk coming years. 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.520 And it's unnecessary and it's driving me crazy because you 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.000 know why, and I think we can all agree we 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:32.319 love this game. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:34.079 Why do we love. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.040 This game because of the places it takes us, the 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.840 people we meet, the relationships we forge, the experiences we have, 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:46.000 the opportunities we have to have that camaraderie community and 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.520 show up and also share it with the people who 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:55.200 matter most family, friends, our children, their children. So the 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.880 reason why I want to grow the game, and why 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.440 I was so supportive of the Grow the Game efforts 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.800 and why everyone got behind that movement is that very reason, 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.720 because we want people to have the experiences that we've 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.680 all been blessed to have relating to golf. If you 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.160 suck the game of golf out of my life and 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.480 all the relationships I've had because of golf, I'd have 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.480 almost nothing. That's why I care about it. That's why 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.080 I post, and that's why I want it to continue 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:28.440 to grow, because golf creates good people, and good people 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.680 is exactly what we need right now in this world. 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.800 And if the person that's showing up and playing music 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.800 too loud or is not conforming to the general etiquette 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.280 of what the game is, guess what. We stop them 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:42.640 and go. 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:43.120 By the way. 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.280 Carts can't drive over the green. Oh, by the way, 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.760 this is goad Hill Park. This John Ashworth created this community. 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:55.880 Please don't just run over arbitrarily. The signs that are 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.920 saying parts this way. You coach them up. That's part 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.640 of the process that community kicks in and we right 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.200 the ship and we correct the wrongs and we make 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.560 better people because of it. Why is first t exists? 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.640 Why does uthon course happen because you want kids in 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:17.080 the game so that they can become better people. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:19.280 What are we doing? 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:20.680 Matt? 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:21.920 I wish you had some passion on this. 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.440 So this is madness. The governing bodies literally loaded a 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.680 gun and just shot themselves in their own feet. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.800 Well, okay, let me play Devil's advocate here. I mean, 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.880 for the beginning golfer. I agree that optically it's not 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.280 a great message. But for people who just learn to 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.240 play the game, who don't swing the club that hard 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.440 or well, they probably won't even notice the difference when 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:49.200 the ball goes back. Well that's the question. I mean, 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.840 that's why bifurcation would have made sense. I think you know, Michael, 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.680 your point was it? And I like the top flight 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.920 versus provy one. Maybe some of us would know the difference, 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.200 But if we're talking about the beginners, they certain they 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.440 certainly wouldn't. They're just trying to find the club phase. 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.000 I mean, Michael, in your mind, what what is the 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:15.200 way forward? Like, where does the game go from this moment? 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:21.040 Well, the greatness about the about the four majors when 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.840 people actually do watch golf and like say Hartford and 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.320 waste Man, well, Wasteman, it's not for an example, but 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:28.880 you know, the ordinary pH to event or the ordinary 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:33.920 live event is that those events invited massive, massive audiences. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.040 And this this dovetails with with with with medicine. And 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.480 if we when we watch ordinary golf, it's driver eight 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.280 iron or driver sandwich into so many part forwards and 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.680 we can't relate because we're not doing that. But if 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.000 those four, let's call it, even five times a year, 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:50.680 if the players got on board with it, if you 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.720 did have a special ball for those events, it would 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.600 make golf even more inviting because we the public and 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.160 especially beginners people near to the game, would relate even 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.760 more to what they're doing on TV because it would 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.880 at least start to approach what we're doing, which isn't 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.919 happening now. Now the game is so bifurcated already, but 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.600 they're not willing to admit it. You know. Rory McRoy 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:13.960 said that the other day, he said, you think the 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:15.560 clubs that I played and you play are the same. 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.040 Of course not. They're so finally tuned to their exact needs. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:20.960 We go to Dick's Sporting Goods about whatever the guy 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.879 gives us, or if the person gives us. So I 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:29.640 think there is really I think that governing bodies didn't 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.359 really really identify the problem. The problem is not running 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.920 out of land at ninety nine percent of the thick 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.640 golf courses. It's this tiny sliver of courses where they 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.440 are running out of land. They can't make the course 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.840 long enough, and we can't really relate to what they're doing. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.080 And to your point Alan about, you know, would it 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.080 really would it be fair to make a guy to play, 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.280 you know, one ball twenty five weeks a year. To 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.359 Bad's point about, you know, you got a short porch, 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.120 you know, Fenway and a different one at Yankee Stadium 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.960 and Rety and all the rest. Adjust, just adjust. It 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.160 would be another part of the challenge. So I think 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.040 it would. I think it would have been really neat. 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.360 You know, of course we're not old enough to remember it, 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.520 but the diming rule was once to think, can you 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.400 imagine at one point, you know, people are like, can 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.240 you believe they're going to give it to the steming rule? 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.280 Now that this next generation hasn't even heard of it, 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.919 And why would they so like if you did something 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.879 quote radical, like actually give the athlete a ball to 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.800 use in these four or five different tournaments, it would 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.199 seem crazy and outrageous for a while, and then it 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.800 just wouldn't. It would just be normal. And of course, 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.120 of course in every other sport pretty much except for bowling, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.280 that's what happens the governing body because every putting on 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.160 the event gives you a ball and go play. And 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.800 even to the last thing. I know, the manufacturers would 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.560 go crazy about this, but you could even have of 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:50.639 course it would be expensive and blah blah blah, but 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.160 you could have the different manufacturers make the tournament ball 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.440 that would be used in these four or five different tournaments. Okay, great, 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.120 they can still get their name out there. 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.399 The thing, the other thing that drives me crazy just 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.719 to say, is like, why why just the ball, Like 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.960 you know, let's roll back mowing, let's row back mowers, 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.720 and let's go to longer length fairways, let's grow out rough. 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.359 I mean, the pros don't like to play with long rough, 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.159 so guess what, there's no more long rough anyway. They 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.400 don't play in long rough. They don't. They don't really 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.320 like it. You know the pros are going to always 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.760 just do this is this is a such a small 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.760 set and an entertainment factor factory, and they're getting paid 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.879 to put on a show and what we think the 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.439 show should be or could be or supposed to be, 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.000 it doesn't matter if they don't if they don't go 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.359 along with it. It's like you still need to get 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:45.800 buy in from them. And if you get buy in 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:47.840 from them, then it doesn't matter from us. And once 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.760 they passed on it, then why are Why is the 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:56.520 solution then to to to go and pick on everybody, 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.080 you know, everybody at school, Like it just makes no 0:19:59.200 --> 0:19:59.679 sense to me. 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.240 They did address the fairway height in the in the 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:06.639 in the report on the distance, and they said it 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:11.639 was pretty negligible in two to four yards maybe longer. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.240 Fairweaight cards For what they're saying, right, it is like 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.159 you know almost a third of what they're actually proposing. 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.280 So if you take fairway length, if you limit the 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.200 loft in the club head and say okay, you can 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.960 only use thirteen degrees and higher, you can't go down 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.959 to an eight degree loft, if you can only have 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.639 a certain length of shaft, if you can only have 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:40.080 a certain clubhead size. You know, why, why does it 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.159 have anything really to do? You know, like why do 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.840 you just single out the ball and just say. 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.760 That's the issue. You know, hard and faster. 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.240 We're seeing the ball roll thirty to seventy yards after 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:53.720 it lands on these fairways. 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.360 Yeah, I think on some level. 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.320 The ball is an easy scale go if you wanted 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.879 to get into the systemic issues and you could go 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:06.679 down a rabbit hole, you know, you could regulate t 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:07.560 height you get to. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.560 We are in that hole. This is where we are. 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.879 This is where we've we've we we are not going 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.320 down the rabbit hole. We have been shoved into. 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:15.800 The rabbit hole. 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.280 Yeah, well, unnecessarily. And that's also part of my frustration. 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.159 You know, the professional game, as you guys both know, 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:31.000 is an absolute shit show, dumpster fire, uh, inside out, 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:35.600 upside down and backwards. It's it's just like to the 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:40.520 point where people are tuning out and moving on at 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:45.080 a big at a big rate, and now the governing 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.680 bodies of the so called quote masses are going to 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.840 throw this grenade into that room. 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:54.640 Well, it does. 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.160 It does get interesting because golf but louder does not 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:03.040 really dovetail with shorter driving distances. So what Live is 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:04.720 going to do and what the PGA Tour is going 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:06.840 to do, and they don't have to be in lockstep 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.400 assuming this framework agreement blows up, even if it's consummated, 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.960 like they're not bound by there's no nitty gritty in 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.520 that that they're gonna have to follow the same competition rules. 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:18.840 So then you can you know what one tour does 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.560 versus the other. To your point, Matt, it gets messy. 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.600 I think Michael. 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.000 Mentioned this earlier. I mean professional golf on TV has 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.199 never been more boring, and some of that is just 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:32.760 the style of play when they do go to I 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:36.560 think it's like that old Donald Ross course outside Detroit. 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.560 I mean, the guys are in wedge into every single hole. 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.280 Is just so boring because you give a pro a 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.480 wedge either going to hit a great shot or a 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:47.919 good shot. There's no danger. You know, either they're going 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:49.600 to be thirty feet, they're going to be five feet. 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.440 But the range of outcomes is so small. That's why 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.040 I like bifurcation. I like the more severe rollback where 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.720 the game becomes more interesting to Watts. 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:02.520 In the first four by f Kid, I was for 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:04.959 just for the record, I'm for by furcation. Do whatever, 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:07.000 you know, like do whatever you want to do the 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:08.760 pros and and get them on board. 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.359 And that's said that to me is such a miss. 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:15.600 Here is you know, the the PGA tour helped kill it. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.080 I mean they're still writing letters to the USG They're 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:22.600 still pushing back, and it's their product that's suffering. I mean, 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.679 their product has never been more anadyne and more just 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.320 it's just predictable. And it's their product, you know what 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.320 I mean, Like look at the NFL. What a mess 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.120 the NFL is, But it's their product. Like they're gonna 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:38.199 have to address the tush push like that's you know, 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:42.439 you know, I don't Calvin Johnson came along. He was 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.440 really tall and he's unguardable. Randy Moss was an elite 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:49.480 athlete who was basically unstoppable for a chunk of time. 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:51.879 I mean Tom Brady won seven supers, you know, was 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:53.520 it played in seven Super Bowls? 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:54.760 Like what what? 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.560 Like does that mean? We just have like what do 0:23:57.600 --> 0:23:59.840 we what are we doing? We just sort of react 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.320 based on everything that continues to happen at the elite level. 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:07.639 And the difference here being is that you're making decisions 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.400 that affect the people who pay to play. What if 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:14.080 you put polls in front of everybody's seats in the 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:16.959 grandstands of people who are watching football and say we're 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:18.760 gonna make it harder for you to watch the game 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:19.919 that you're paying to play. 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:23.560 Matt, what would you answer to this question if let's 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:27.159 say Mike Wan and Slumbers and Fred Ridley called you 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:29.280 zoom called just like this one. They said, Mat, You've 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:31.439 been around the game all your life. What do you 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:34.680 see as the issue with the game right now as 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.280 it relates to this one narrow thing? How far the 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:38.080 golf ball goes? 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.639 I don't see it. I do not do well. I 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:45.719 just don't see it. Buddies trip we have on our 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.520 annual Buddies trip, we have a range of plus handicaps 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:53.119 to twenty four handicaps. If anything, distance is an issue 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:56.800 for the greater majority of the people on the trip 0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:00.320 in terms of the ball doesn't go far enough golf. 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:01.960 Go go play lido. 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:05.080 Right now from the forward t's and if you shoot 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:09.480 your handicap, I'll send you a hat. Right now, Go 0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:12.160 play the lido at Sand Valley. And you think you're 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:14.520 going to go out there and overpower that golf course. 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:18.399 This is one of the old classics that was built 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:22.679 to be a tough golf course. Like, you know, I 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:25.040 don't see it. I don't see it anywhere. I don't 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.119 see it at Tory Pines. I don't see it at 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.439 Beth Page. I don't see the distance is not an 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:34.400 issue unless we turn on the TV and we think 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:36.080 we're going to ask ourselves. And if you're at a 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:38.399 private club and distance is an issue, maybe you have 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.040 an issue with an architecture of that golf course or 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:45.000 where that bunker was originally. Like, really, there's enough people 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:48.280 in your membership at your private club that you all 0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:52.400 pay to play that this is a problem that should 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:58.040 in somehow impact the masses. Do whatever you want at 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:00.919 your club, do whatever you want at the pur But 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.640 for the people who rock up at goad Hill Park 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.639 forty five yards par sixty five, eight par threes, you 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.040 know what the issue is. It's golf is too hard. 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:15.119 That's the issue. So anything we're doing to make it 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:18.960 harder makes no sense, and it's going to affect the 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:22.359 bottom line at that little mini municipal who's fighting for 0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:24.880 its life to try to get more people to rock 0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:25.879 up and pay to play. 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:29.440 Alan, what do you what do you think? Alan? What 0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:33.000 do you think? Like? My contention is they haven't really 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.040 been forth right about what they think the problem is. 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:38.320 But what is what's your take on. 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.760 When you say they are you are you talking about 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:43.600 the ruling bodies as the day. 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:45.840 Yeah, they think the. 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:49.840 Problem is really really whether they're saying it publicly or not. 0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:53.800 Yeah, I mean Matt touched on the problem is that 0:26:54.440 --> 0:26:59.639 the two tournaments are being most affected by the distance 0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:03.080 explosion is the US Open and the British Open, because 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:06.280 they're locked into these old traditional venues that have gotten 0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:12.280 so short. And it's we have a measuring stick and 0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:13.800 you go back to the old course every five years 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:16.919 you can see, you know, no one's hitting drive off eighteenymore. 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:20.560 It is too short at the old course. I mean 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.439 it's a three wooded computer. In five years are going 0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:26.960 to be you know, uh Lude, big a bear and 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:28.879 and Gordon Sargent. I'm gonna be hitting three irons and 0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:30.920 driving the green quickly quickly. 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:33.520 I would definitely add as Nation to that list. I 0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:36.240 guess too, so that everybody and their mother reaches eight 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:40.159 now No, so that, so that that is the issue 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:41.000 for the governing vice. 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.240 They've been asleep at the wheel for decades. 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:47.000 Distances have gone unchecked, and where it's most obvious is 0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.320 at their most important championships. And so I think they're embarrassed, 0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:52.200 Like you know, they play the old course they have 0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:54.399 they put tea's on the eden and the new course 0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:57.719 and in ob areas and all this ridiculousness just to 0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:01.200 try and make it something like the shot values that 0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:02.320 have always been there. 0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:03.880 So that's what I think. 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:05.840 That's why I think is driving this is they have 0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:10.000 egg on their face every year when it's clear that 0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:15.359 their their malfeasance and their ineptitude has allowed the professional 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:20.159 game to become to run amok, and so they they 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.360 have to do something because of their own championships. 0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:24.159 It's only two. 0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:28.360 Weeks a year, just for four or five weeks a year. Yeah, Like, no, 0:28:28.359 --> 0:28:31.400 no LPG event feels that way that I could imagine, 0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:36.280 no way. Now players felt the player the TPC sawgrass course, 0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:39.880 they would probably identify with all of that. Got me, 0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:42.000 eighteen Can you match your guys playing eighteen at the 0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:44.400 three arn and a six arm? Which they do? You 0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:45.640 know you hit a three arm and you hit it 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:47.600 right down the right side the Boks and then you'll 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:49.640 hit a cut six iron in there. I mean, that's 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:53.400 not what Pete I wanted. So so okay, I think 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:55.280 that I'm based on what you just said, we're totally 0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:57.600 on the same page. So on that basis, I'm with 0:28:57.640 --> 0:28:59.719 you with the line in the sand. But why not, 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:02.080 as Matt and I have both been saying, why not 0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:03.880 just have a golf ball for these four or five 0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:04.440 weeks a year. 0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:09.120 It's certainly feasible, And now that's going to be the 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:14.920 only solution since since they've officially punted on bifurcation as 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:19.880 a governing principle, then the tournament ball becomes the last hope. 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:23.280 But to me, I mean, I like you said, I 0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:25.120 think you said it. Well, Michael, it seems crazy, but 0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:27.880 then after a couple of years, it's not a big deal. 0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:30.840 And you know, when I coached high school basketball, we 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:32.760 use a certain kind of basketball all year long. We 0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:34.920 get to the CCS playoffs, they have a deal a 0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:39.480 different manufacturer. They handle this ball pre game. It feels weird, 0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:43.000 it doesn't dribble the same. The girls don't like it. Well, 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:45.160 too bad. This is the ball we're using. You got 0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:47.440 fifteen minutes of warmups to get used to it, and 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:49.800 you go play. It's still a round ball that bounces, 0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:54.400 so I mean it exists in sports like but. 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:57.400 That is sport right there. It's like when when Phil 0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:59.600 complained about the two hundred and seventy yard par three 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:04.280 may who cares? Is two seventy for everybody? Done? Right there. 0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:07.640 College baseball players play their whole lives with middle bats, 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:09.160 and in order to make the pros, they have to 0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:13.280 adjust to a wooden bat. The you know, the the goat. 0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:17.240 Let's let's pull the caddies. Okay, let's go to Saint 0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:19.680 Andrews and the Old Course and ask the caddies if 0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:21.880 we think we need to roll the ball back to 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:24.440 make the Old Course more relevant. Let's go to Pebble 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:26.440 Beach and ask the caddies if we think this is 0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:29.080 a good idea to roll the ball back for the 0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:31.520 people who are rocking up and playing Pebble Beach. I 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:34.320 know for a fact that the caddies at Sand Valley 0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:38.120 dread the idea that they're going to have to caddy 0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.920 for these amateurs at the Lido on a daily basis 0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:45.160 and have to witness the carnage that's going to be 0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:48.000 displayed out there for all these people who love the 0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:51.720 architecture and playing one of these classical golf courses and 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:56.240 they're making putting out for sixes, sevens, eights. Please pick 0:30:56.280 --> 0:31:00.880 it up, you're making a nine. Please, it's over. Let's 0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:04.080 go and talk to the caddies about which course they 0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:06.640 like to caddy at Bandon Dunes more is it Pacific 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:10.240 Dunes or is it is it Sheep Ranch? Like this 0:31:10.360 --> 0:31:14.160 is like this. 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:14.880 This is this right? 0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:17.080 So okay, this is where we've come to in this podcast. 0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:19.880 We all three of us agree they should have bifurcated. 0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:21.080 They didn't. 0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:25.360 So now an interesting question becomes what happens in seven years, 0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:29.840 Like will will the golfers rebel? Will they just will 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:33.880 they just opt out? You know, none of us are 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.000 playing in big time amateur events. We're just playing with 0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:39.160 our friends. So when you get to the first t 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.840 in two thousand and January first, two thousand and thirty, 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:44.600 do you say, boys, you know, I've got some pro 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:45.880 v ones that are year and a half old. 0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:47.400 I'm going to use them. I don't know what you got, 0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:48.160 you know, like. 0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:51.680 It's it's just like when we play, we grant each 0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:56.280 other mulligans. Occasionally there's certainly gimme's, Like all of us 0:31:56.400 --> 0:32:00.760 have our own low key interpretation of the rules as 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:03.960 it is now. So what do you think will the 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:10.560 average golfer embrace the new dead ball? Or in mass 0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:12.800 are we just going to vote with our pocketbooks and 0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:14.160 ignore the rule? 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:15.160 Like, what's going to happen? 0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:18.640 People are going to be I don't care. People are 0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:20.200 going to be I don't care. You know, I've been 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:22.320 playing these iwos. I don't know if they're legal or not. 0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:25.080 I think they are. I think their grandfather did. I 0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:27.560 don't care. Now if it was actually playing in something 0:32:27.600 --> 0:32:29.479 where someone cared and said, okay, well if you care them, 0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:30.920 I care. But otherwise I don't care. 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:35.800 Well, I mean, so, Matt, Matt, you you organize an 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:39.280 annual Buddies trip. People know about the Uncle Tony motasal Michael, 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.240 you have an annual gathering called the Shiviz where you 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:45.120 bring together, you know, a couple dozen guys to play. 0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:47.800 So what is going to happen in twenty thirty? Are 0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:51.360 you going to have to specify to this motley crew 0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:54.120 of friends who come from all over the country have 0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:58.040 different backgrounds in golf, different handicaps, different world views. Are 0:32:58.080 --> 0:32:59.880 you going to say what ball they have to do? 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:04.120 Is? Mean course, the answers is known. And to your 0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:06.960 point out you know this word bifurkate, it seems to 0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:09.360 be like the one dressed up. You know, tiger love 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:11.040 is the word. It's been using it for years, like 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:12.680 people seem to know what the word is, but the 0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:16.320 word is so abused. The game is not bifurkate. We 0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:19.880 just play a totally different game. My little thing, you know, uh, 0:33:20.400 --> 0:33:22.600 that has all sort of its own quirks as well. 0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:25.240 And my thing, you can't make worse than triple. There's 0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:27.240 nothing in the rule but says you can't make worse 0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:29.200 than triple. But in my thing, you can't make worse 0:33:29.280 --> 0:33:33.560 and triple. And the whole handicap system is the whole 0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:38.400 entire handicap system is quote bifurcated. Because you're supposed to 0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:42.200 turn in a stroke play score where putts are routinely given. 0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:45.400 Those two things don't go in the hand in hand, right. 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:48.959 The gimme is a real thing in match play, and 0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:53.280 it's totally an anomaly or not anomaly. It's it's anathema 0:33:53.360 --> 0:33:56.960 to shop play competition, yet you combine the two so 0:33:57.120 --> 0:34:00.800 that the PG excuse me, the governing has done a 0:34:00.960 --> 0:34:05.280 very poor job of explaining that there really are two 0:34:05.280 --> 0:34:08.520 different games. And and I think that's I think that's 0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:11.279 a starting point recording seven years fround. I don't think 0:34:11.320 --> 0:34:13.440 allan anyone's going to I don't think anyone's going to 0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:16.320 care if. 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:18.680 We I don't know, Well, this is a thought exercise. 0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:23.000 Matt twenty thirty. Uncle Tony Invitational. Hopefully I'm there. Let's 0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:24.640 say you hopefully I'm there. 0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:26.520 Yeah, so I. 0:34:26.520 --> 0:34:28.160 Won't maybe names like Kevin Price. 0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:30.400 But we have some hardos who like really follow the 0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:33.080 rules of golf and are really into that. So some 0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:34.759 of the guys come up to the Uncle Tony they 0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:37.399 have the dead balls. I say, you know what, I'm 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:40.319 not down with the USGA. I'm I'm using my old ball. 0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:41.560 Gives me an advantage. 0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:45.080 I win the Uncle Tony Invitational. Some guys are pissed 0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:46.960 off because I use an old ball and I had 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.320 an advantage, Like you, as the commissioner, how are you 0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:49.960 going to deal with that? 0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:54.880 I did you know I kicked people out for not 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:59.400 wanting music. You know, I kick people out for you know, 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:02.399 bringing sh campaign instead of whine or tequila like that. 0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:07.120 You know, I kick people out for complaining about who 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.080 they're paired with. Like I'm not kicking people out for 0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:12.680 you know. We we go to Bandon Dune's and we 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:14.799 play the sixty two hundred yard tees and we let 0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:17.080 the uncles you know, go all the way up where 0:35:17.120 --> 0:35:20.799 you know, play from wherever you want to essentially play from. 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:25.000 I'm doing everything I can to try to make this 0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:28.839 more fun. I always say my first advice to any 0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:32.120 alpha planner of a Buddy's trip is play down to 0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:35.719 your lowest common denominator. Essentially, in terms of budget, you've 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:37.920 got to make sure you don't price people out of 0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:40.360 the destination. You want to make sure everybody comes along. 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:43.520 You want to have the highest handicappers be able to 0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:46.560 have a chance to have fun and win. I don't 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:51.200 cater to like the two or three plus handicaps on 0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:54.920 the trip and let the rest of the people suffer 0:35:55.200 --> 0:36:00.600 the consequences. In fact, I let the lowest handicappers play 0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:03.799 from where the forward tease so that we don't buy 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:07.480 for Kate the camaraderie of the event by having those 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:09.839 guys go all the way to the back teas and 0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:12.160 us having to wait for them to hit, and then 0:36:12.200 --> 0:36:15.360 we all wait and then we then hit. Oh I forgot, Sorry, 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:16.759 we have one more. I didn't know. You have to 0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:21.320 hit like I'm trying to accommodate the group, the masses, 0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:24.439 because everybody is paying to be there. And if the 0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:27.680 good players end up shooting sixty five instead of shit 0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:30.680 sixty nine, I don't really give a shit. I say, 0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.040 that's really well played. All he done is pro is 0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:37.440 an exceptional player. He has struggled the last few years. 0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:39.400 He got his game in gear. He had four rounds 0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:42.480 in the sixties, including on the Leado, which is great golf, 0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:45.880 and he won the tournament. As you know, he and 0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:48.400 his partner Andrew Fleming had a five or six handicap, 0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:53.160 won the tournament. They beat all the net players because 0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:56.080 they played the best golf. I don't really give it. 0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:57.920 I don't really give a shit. And going back to 0:36:58.000 --> 0:37:01.440 the tournament ball and the US in the RNA taking 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:03.839 the pile of cash that they're all sitting on that 0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:06.799 they've been taking for all the entrants and all the 0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:09.760 people who paid to be a part of these tournaments 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:12.520 and all the merchandise it's been sold. Making a tournament 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:15.279 ball and throwing up a purse of twenty million or 0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:18.040 how are amid millions of dollars they put in terms 0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:21.200 of a purse for the United States Open and hoist 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:23.959 that big trophy and have one of the majors. They 0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:26.279 are sitting with the leverage in the power because they've 0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:29.600 got the money for those events. If they set a 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:32.759 price of what you're playing for and this is the 0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:35.640 US Open and it's a major championship, but you have 0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:40.360 to play this tournament ball that we've created, people would 0:37:40.360 --> 0:37:43.120 play it. And if the players don't want to play it, 0:37:43.120 --> 0:37:47.200 they don't play it. Make it about that small slice 0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:50.640 and ignore the rest of us and leave us alone. 0:37:52.040 --> 0:37:54.640 So we have an emerging consensus on this podcast. They 0:37:54.640 --> 0:37:58.279 should have bifurcated. They didn't. Now they should go to 0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:02.480 a tournament ball. And the thing that's interesting is if 0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:05.239 they were to do that, that would be great for 0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:09.399 Goat Hill because and shorter courses because not everybody wants 0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:12.000 to buy percimmons or as access to Percimmons. But you 0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:15.160 could go to Goat and you play the tournament ball, 0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:17.600 and now instead of forty five hundred yards, it plays 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:20.799 more like fifty five hundred and essentially, you know, you 0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:23.880 could take these these deador balls to par three courses 0:38:23.880 --> 0:38:26.319 like Golden Gate Park, hit More Club if you want to. 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:30.200 Like I was actually on Grand Cayman, like I think 0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:31.960 I was in high school and I played the Cayman 0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:34.160 ball on that little course and it was like it 0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:36.600 was fun. You know, you're playing a eighty yard hole 0:38:36.640 --> 0:38:39.960 and you're hitting a three wood or whatever. And I 0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:44.560 mean as as we as we we've been celebrating all 0:38:44.560 --> 0:38:46.960 these part three courses, Like I think if you have 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:50.280 this this tournament ball, that you could be mass marketed 0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:51.360 for shorter courses. 0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:53.400 That could be fun. It just that's all the real. 0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:56.640 I mean, people I walk up to go with Friday Skins. 0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:59.640 Guys put in twenty bucks, some guys play Percimmons, some 0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:03.400 guys out Todd Dempsey. Right now, as we're talking in 0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:06.840 this conversation, through one round of the PGA Tour champions 0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:11.239 Q School is four under par. He's playing the Q 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:15.360 School with Per Simmons that he made that he made 0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:21.120 hand crafted. Todd Dempsey legend, Arizona State. Like this guy 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:25.160 is like a bona fide badass. He rolled it back himself, 0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:29.200 and he's competing with the rest. He should roll back 0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:31.600 is there. If you want it, you want it, go 0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:34.880 take it, have at it, roll it back, do whatever 0:39:34.920 --> 0:39:37.000 you want until you're blue in the face. I could 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:39.239 care less leave us alone. 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:41.719 Tapping on what ball he's using. 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:46.520 No, if he's using a gut of perza, I'll be 0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:47.280 really impressed. 0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:50.120 Not Yeah, it's not all right. 0:39:50.160 --> 0:39:54.120 Well it's it's an interesting topic and it gets people 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:57.880 fired up, as listeners have heard on this podcast, especially. 0:39:58.440 --> 0:39:59.600 Where are you going in Australia? 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:02.880 Yeah, we should we should mention that it's it's Wednesday, 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:05.800 late morning here in California. I'm going to be driving 0:40:05.840 --> 0:40:07.840 to SFO here in a little bit and I'm going 0:40:07.920 --> 0:40:11.799 to be flying to Melbourne, Australia for Jeff Ogilvie and 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:16.440 Michael Clayton's sand Belt Invitational, one of the coolest little 0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:18.799 tournaments in golf. We've been covering it the last couple 0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:20.760 of years on Firepit Collective dot com. 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:22.400 I was just doing it from Afar. 0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:25.359 We had some video guys who are on site, but 0:40:26.200 --> 0:40:28.200 I'm making the trip this year. I will be doing 0:40:29.400 --> 0:40:33.160 daily dispatches, fun stuff on social try and wrangle a 0:40:33.160 --> 0:40:37.200 few homies for a podcast perhaps and you know I've 0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:40.680 I'll tweet it out. I Matt and I and a 0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:43.960 couple other our friends did this the ultimate golf trip 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:46.640 probably in the history of golf trips, right for COVID 0:40:46.680 --> 0:40:51.320 hit and we did Melbourne and Tasmania and king Island 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:55.240 that's in between, and it was it was epic. Also 0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:57.000 New Zealand. I can't believe we did that in eight days. 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.960 And yeah, Melbourne is one of the all time great destinations. 0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:03.040 So I'm excited. I'll bring my golf clubs. 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:04.600 I'm gonna be a little busy, but hopefully I can 0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:08.799 sneak in some golf and it's it's just gonna be 0:41:08.800 --> 0:41:10.880 It's gonna be a fun time. And I hope people 0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:13.440 follow along because if you if you haven't paid attention 0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:18.120 to the stamp but invitational, it brings together the pros and amateurs, 0:41:18.440 --> 0:41:21.680 men and women, some some old AUSSI legends. You know, 0:41:21.719 --> 0:41:25.080 we're seniors now playing it. So it's multi generation. It's 0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:28.080 just they play a different course every day. Royal Melbourne, 0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:32.719 Kingston Heath Peninsula, Kingwood, which is a neo Classic and 0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:33.800 the fourth. 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:36.200 The fourth venue rotates this year. 0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:39.839 It's Victoria, where there's a statue of Peter Thompson by 0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:42.080 the first tea waiting to pass judgment on your t 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:47.279 shot and great golf course. Super fun place. We last 0:41:47.320 --> 0:41:49.759 night of our trip, we stayed in the clubhouse there 0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:51.760 and they have some rooms and. 0:41:52.480 --> 0:41:54.440 We were the people. 0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.520 The members kind of knew We've been on social media 0:41:57.560 --> 0:41:59.520 for weeks playing all these golf courses and so they 0:41:59.520 --> 0:42:01.640 were happy are there and one of the most fun 0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:04.200 nights ever had in golf travel because they were so 0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:07.360 welcoming and. 0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:07.760 Want to hear all our tall tales. 0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:11.359 So I'm looking forward to getting back to Victoria and yeah, 0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:12.359 it's it's gonna be good fun. 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:13.400 Thanks for mentioning that, Michael. 0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:16.000 I appreciate that. That shows you how much sway Clayton and 0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:17.719 Ogle we have in the game when you when you 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:21.560 cite those courses, I mean, for people know Dolphin Australia, 0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:29.120 that's uh, Marion and Seminole and Augusta National and psych Melbourne. 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:32.440 Melbourne is like taking the best of Philadelphia, the best 0:42:32.440 --> 0:42:35.520 of Chicago, the best of San Francisco, and the best 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:38.160 of New York and putting them all in like you know, 0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:41.680 within driving distance, like within a very short amount. It's 0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:45.000 an embarrassment of ridge. They have so many they can 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:47.560 rotate for the next few years and you'd never have 0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:50.000 to play the same one over and over again. Victoria. 0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:52.160 I got the chance to stay at Victoria Golf. We 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:55.080 we stayed in those little those rooms above the club out. 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:58.840 I mean, it's such an incredible golf course. And the 0:42:58.880 --> 0:43:02.720 way that those fairways cut into those greens and there's 0:43:02.800 --> 0:43:04.720 you know, and then on into those bunkers. 0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:07.640 It's like it's it's so pure. 0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:09.759 It is so pure well and. 0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:14.280 Just as quick quick as I hear. But it relates 0:43:14.320 --> 0:43:18.280 to our theme when when Tiger played as the playing 0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:21.799 captain in that i think twenty nineteen President's Cup, the 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:24.839 shots that he played there were so inventive and so 0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:27.919 much more interesting than you know, the smash mouth golf 0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:30.320 that we're customers saying. You know, i'd say at Hartford, 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:32.359 I'm not picking a Hartford, but that's what they do there. 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:34.080 It's a long, you know, it's a short, soft course, 0:43:35.239 --> 0:43:37.799 but it was just interesting, and you know, maybe it's 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:39.680 a function of my age and the kind of golf 0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:41.719 I grew up watching that. You know, I'm so drawn 0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:44.440 to that kind of golf. But I don't know anybody 0:43:44.520 --> 0:43:47.239 couldn't say that that was that's not better golf, and 0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:49.799 that's that's the joy of the old course. It really 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:52.239 should be the joy of Augusta National only, especially when 0:43:52.239 --> 0:43:55.360 it's dry at all, is to see guys pay fiddly 0:43:55.440 --> 0:43:59.880 finesse difficult shots out of difficult lies in the ball move. 0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:03.160 So anyway, I don't have a great grade trip, but 0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.600 I think on the point that golf gets more interesting 0:44:08.080 --> 0:44:11.640 when the ball is not so hot. And you know, 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:13.879 I just want to wrap up one quick thought here 0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:16.040 because I feel like maybe i've been too harsh harsh 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:18.239 on the governing bodies, and I really do agree with 0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:20.760 that first thing you said, you did have to do something, 0:44:20.800 --> 0:44:22.919 and this is doing something, and I do think it's 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:24.839 a good thing that they're doing it, and they are 0:44:24.920 --> 0:44:27.040 giving a lot a lot of the time, but it's 0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:30.319 a major but it's not going to do anything for 0:44:30.440 --> 0:44:33.400 the real issue that I think facing golf, which is 0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:36.400 are these great courses from yesteryear are going to become relics? 0:44:36.719 --> 0:44:39.399 That's really the honest to god issue, And I think 0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:41.720 they have not really been willing to say that out loud. 0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:44.600 And I just want I want to clear up one 0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:48.919 little factoid. Tom Brady played in ten Super Bowls, one 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:54.560 seven of them. We celebrate his greatness. Steph Curry is, 0:44:54.640 --> 0:44:58.239 you know, revolutionizing the game of basketball, and we celebrate 0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:02.040 Steph Curry's greatness. Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, you know, scored 0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:04.359 one hundred points and they didn't raise the rim like 0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.800 I Just what sort of always kind of half bugs 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.799 me about the game of golf is we can never 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:16.879 be satisfied and just simply celebrate greatness without overreacting and 0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:21.000 tigerproofing or you know, rolling back the ball like it 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:27.560 just for whatever reason, we can't just simply say that's amazing, congratulations. 0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:30.560 And just a quickholo of that. Matt just proves how genius, 0:45:30.680 --> 0:45:33.279 not really the golf governing guys can be. Is they 0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:36.839 got they got tigetproofing totally wrong. Exactly you got it right, 0:45:37.040 --> 0:45:39.200 was Nick Price. So you want to tigerproof, go to 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:40.320 sixty six hundred. 0:45:40.160 --> 0:45:43.719 Yards less is more. It's the answer to this has 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:48.879 always been shorter is the answer, not necessarily for the 0:45:48.920 --> 0:45:52.239 ball but for the courses and the architecture and the 0:45:52.280 --> 0:45:56.279 turnpoints and make it, make them be more accurate. And 0:45:56.360 --> 0:45:59.799 I'm just I'm bummed. But I love golf. I know 0:45:59.840 --> 0:46:02.239 we all love golf. Anybody who's listening right now still 0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:06.160 loves golf. And this, to me is a bruise on 0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:06.560 the game. 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:09.279 I don't agree that. I don't think this is any 0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:11.640 certa crisis. I think it's more like nothing. 0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:14.600 It's unnecessary, it's unnecessary. 0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:15.160 It's kind of an own goal. 0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:17.400 Well, I'm just gonna wrap up by saying that I 0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:19.680 hope I'm still still Michael Clayton. 0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:23.200 By the way, No, don't let him in, leave him 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:23.919 in the waiting room. 0:46:24.360 --> 0:46:28.840 Yeah, why don't we, Alan, Why don't we let Michael go? 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:30.480 And let's say a load to Michael. 0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:38.080 For another, doctor Bamberger, thank you? Yes, oh my god. 0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:41.799 All right, I'm gonna patch Michael Clayton in. He's coming on. 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:45.680 As Bamberger is saying goodbye, We're trading one Michael for another. 0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:49.719 We're going from Philly to Melbourne. Quite an exciting thing. 0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:52.040 But we're gonna actually stop this podcast down. If you 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:55.480 care to listen to conversations with Michael Clayton that'll be 0:46:55.560 --> 0:47:00.799 part two of our rollback conversation, Big Gun. 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:05.080 I played the wind, made a fortune. When my ship 0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:09.359 came in, I ran the table, never thought I could 0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:12.840 fall down. The winter time hit me like a cannon 0:47:12.880 --> 0:47:19.240 in the ball, and now I can't shape this losing streak. 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:25.279 Every road I take is a dead end street. I 0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:30.120 got thoughts in my head, can't get them out, trying 0:47:30.160 --> 0:47:33.320 not to think what I'm thinking about. I got the 0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:37.520 thoughts in my head. I can't get them out, trying 0:47:37.760 --> 0:47:40.160 not to think what I'm thinking about.