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Speaker 1: This is a big deal. We are talking about people

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Speaker 1: who pay to play. You're making rules because of what

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Speaker 1: you see based on people who get paid to play,

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Speaker 1: that impact the people who pay to play. That's a

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Speaker 1: bad decision.

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Speaker 2: I got bouncing my head.

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Speaker 3: Can't get him jh. Not to think what I'm thinking about.

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Speaker 3: Got bouncing my head. Can't get them out, joh, not

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Speaker 3: the thing what I'm thinking about.

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Speaker 4: Hello, this is allan schipnook back for another Fire Drill podcast.

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Speaker 4: It's a big day in golf with the rollback announcement

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Speaker 4: by the USGA. There's a lot to talk about. We've

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Speaker 4: convened an all star panel of Matt Janella and Michael Bamberg.

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Speaker 4: We're hoping to get esteemed architect and thinker Michael Clayton.

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Speaker 4: He was supposed to be here now he may buzz

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Speaker 4: it at any moment. We'll patch him through. But there's

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Speaker 4: a lot to talk about real quick before we get

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Speaker 4: to the news of the day and what it means. Matt,

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Speaker 4: why don't you tip your cap to our corporate sponsors here?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, you know you've heard it before, you've

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Speaker 2: Awesome, All right, let's get to it.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot to talk about here, and Michael, you

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Speaker 4: wrote a very thoughtful piece for five by Collective dot

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Speaker 4: Com sticking out a little bit of a middle ground

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Speaker 4: that the rollback was necessary, but it's not going to

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Speaker 4: have a cataclysmic effect on all of us now that

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Speaker 4: it's here, now it's official. What does this mean for

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Speaker 4: the professional game and then for guys like us?

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Speaker 5: Uncharacteristically, Alan you understated, I think I'll have no impact

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Speaker 5: on us. The three of us on this conversation, and

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Speaker 5: little I think there's they split say there's sixty nine golfers,

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Speaker 5: literally fifty nine point nine to nine million golfers. They

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Speaker 5: will have no effect. You'll never know the difference, just

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Speaker 5: like I would say to the three of us, if

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Speaker 5: you get a top flight in a pro v one,

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Speaker 5: we can barely tell the difference in terms of distance,

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Speaker 5: in terms of click and everything else. So I think,

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Speaker 5: but in terms of what they really wanted to do

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Speaker 5: to have an impact on the best golfers in the

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Speaker 5: world and make I think this is their real goal,

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Speaker 5: make classic classic golf course is still meaningful at meaningful

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Speaker 5: park lives and the rest thirteenth, Augusta National and many

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Speaker 5: other examples. I don't think it's going to do it

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Speaker 5: at all.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you're Matt. Your point is, if they're going

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Speaker 4: to do it, they didn't go far enough right. They

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Speaker 4: should have rolled it back more if they were going

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Speaker 4: to do it.

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Speaker 1: To Michael's point, like then why are we doing Like then,

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Speaker 1: why are we Why are we going through this? What

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Speaker 1: is actually happening right now? What is being done? What

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Speaker 1: just got announced in twenty twenty three, that's going to

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Speaker 1: go to effect in twenty twenty, like the none of this,

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Speaker 1: you know, makes any sense to me, So I'm just

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Speaker 1: not you know, it's such a small percentage of people

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Speaker 1: that it's apparently going to impact, but then it's also

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Speaker 1: eventually going to end packed some of us. But by

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Speaker 1: the time we get to twenty thirty, I'm already dealing

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Speaker 1: with rollback. It's called age. Like everybody's going through it.

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Speaker 1: Tiger Woods is going through it. Phil Mickelson is fighting

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Speaker 1: the fight of being able to actually still say he

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Speaker 1: hits bombs. Like the longest hitters aren't winning or dominating,

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Speaker 1: They're playing a different brand of golf. There's you know,

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Speaker 1: none of this. Is it that one hundred and fiftieth

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Speaker 1: Open that we were there at Saint Andrew's in which

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Speaker 1: guys were driving the eighteenth with a threewood in you know,

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Speaker 1: burnt out conditions in a summer stretch of time in

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Speaker 1: Scotland in which the fairways rolling faster than the greens.

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Speaker 1: Was that so optically unsettling to them that they were like,

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Speaker 1: that's it, we have to do it. What is going

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Speaker 1: on right now?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think the answer and Mike One has

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Speaker 4: said this in it's sort of a sensible way, is

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Speaker 4: we had to do something. We can't do nothing, because

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Speaker 4: if you project seven years from now when guys are

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Speaker 4: driving it, three seventy three, eighty three, ninety four hundred,

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Speaker 4: whatever the norm was going to become, if it went

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Speaker 4: completely unchecked, like they had to draw the proverbial line

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Speaker 4: in the sand.

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Speaker 2: And maybe this is just the opening salvo.

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Speaker 4: If the USGA had come and said we're going to

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Speaker 4: roll it back twenty five percent for the pros or

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Speaker 4: thirty percent, there would have been mutiny and anarchy. We're

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Speaker 4: already sort of seeing that a little bit. But maybe

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Speaker 4: they start with this rollback and then they keep dialing

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Speaker 4: it back a little bit more so the old courses

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Speaker 4: and the marions and those courses can be relevant. Again,

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Speaker 4: I don't know that to be true, but I think

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Speaker 4: they had to set some kind of precedent that we're

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Speaker 4: still the sheriff of this game, that we still.

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Speaker 2: Need a little bit of law and order.

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Speaker 4: And you know, there's that legal term splitting the baby,

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Speaker 4: where you kind of come to a compromise it's not

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Speaker 4: really satisfactory to either side.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit like that.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't enough of a rollback, but it's something and

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Speaker 4: everybody's mad. But at least they've started the governance process,

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Speaker 4: so that would be my answer to your question is

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Speaker 4: what is happening is they had to start somewhere, and

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Speaker 4: this is where they started.

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Speaker 2: This may not be the end.

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Speaker 5: Now what have you done with Alan Schipnak out there

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Speaker 5: on the west coast? When did it get so measured

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Speaker 5: and reasonable? This is very weird slash unsettling. But I

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Speaker 5: do agree with everything Alan said. I truly despite everything

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Speaker 5: I said before, I truly do agree with everything Alan said.

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Speaker 5: You do have to have a line on this end,

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Speaker 5: and you can't just let it keep escalating. And if

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Speaker 5: this is a line of the sand, which I don't

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Speaker 5: really believe it will be, it's better than nothing. But

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Speaker 5: I think, at the risk of repeating myself, they didn't

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Speaker 5: or maybe this is saying a new thing. I don't

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Speaker 5: think they really identified the problem and the problem. You know, Matt,

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Speaker 5: HiT's the long way, and you do too, Alan, but

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Speaker 5: that is.

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Speaker 2: Not the problem.

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Speaker 5: You're not going to abandon dunes and the part five

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Speaker 5: so are obsolutely the problem is super super narrow. It's

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Speaker 5: golf on TV at the best courses in the world.

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Speaker 5: I don't know the numbers that Nicholas said it, but

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Speaker 5: Nicholas said, you know there used to be that someone

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Speaker 5: could help me here. Maybe you know, there used to

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Speaker 5: be five in your courses that could in the world,

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Speaker 5: that could hold major championships. Now there's one hundred, whatever

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Speaker 5: the numbers are, but it's something on the order of that,

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Speaker 5: and that's not good for golf. You know, these great

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Speaker 5: old courses are worth preserving. And if they don't have

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Speaker 5: legitimate part fives and you know, two shot part fours,

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Speaker 5: then they sort of the game gets it's a lesser

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Speaker 5: game actually without the old courses and the marriage being meaningful.

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Speaker 4: Well, and this also it speaks to this how this

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Speaker 4: process was so messy because you know, Matt, you've you've

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Speaker 4: been pretty forceful on social media that this is the

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Speaker 4: wrong time for a rollback for the amateur golfer as

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Speaker 4: the game is exploding in popularity, as we were bringing

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Speaker 4: all kinds of new people to game, and the message

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Speaker 4: now is we want to make it harder for you.

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Speaker 4: That's a bad message. You know, bifurcation was on the table.

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Speaker 4: That would have made sense. You could have you could

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Speaker 4: have throttled back the pros as much as you want

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Speaker 4: and not messed with the rest of us. But the

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Speaker 4: ball manufacturers didn't want that, and they control the players well,

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Speaker 4: I mean because they take their cues from the manufacturers

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Speaker 4: who pay the bills. So the pros and the manufacturers

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Speaker 4: killed by furcation, and so then that sort of backed

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Speaker 4: the USGA into a corner, like, if we're gonna do anything,

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Speaker 4: it's got to be for everybody now, So it's ironic

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Speaker 4: that we could have had a sensible solution that don't

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Speaker 4: touch the amateurs, just deal with this very tiny subset

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Speaker 4: of golfers who do smash the you know, ungodly distances,

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Speaker 4: But the manufacturers and the players killed that the tour players.

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Speaker 2: So now.

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Speaker 4: Now it's affecting all of us. But the crazy thing

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Speaker 4: is the PGA Tour and the pg of America have

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Speaker 4: kind of signaled they're not into this, and certainly Live

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Speaker 4: Golf is not gonna be into it.

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Speaker 2: So we may get into this.

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Speaker 4: Bizarro world scenario where the professional circuits opt out of

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Speaker 4: this and they choose not to follow this rule, but

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Speaker 4: it affects the amates. So all the pros have unchecked distance,

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Speaker 4: but the amateurs are getting penalized like that makes my

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Speaker 4: brain hurt. There's a long way to get to that moment,

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Speaker 4: but it's theoretically possible, and that's insanity.

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Speaker 1: Well so so so okay, all of that being said,

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Speaker 1: and the USGA trying to ultimately protect let's say, their championships,

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Speaker 1: and the RNA trying to protect their Open championship and venues,

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Speaker 1: and why don't they Why don't they just simply then

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Speaker 1: get into the business of making a tournament ball, much

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Speaker 1: like what people wanted Augusta to do several years ago

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Speaker 1: at the Masters, to say, create a tournament ball and

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Speaker 1: say this is the ball you're gonna have to play

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Speaker 1: at my championship or mid championships in the case of

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Speaker 1: the RNA and the and the USGA, and say, in

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Speaker 1: order to play this championship, you have to play this ball.

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Speaker 1: And then they're going they then you take the manufacturer

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Speaker 1: is out of the equation. You control your situation as

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Speaker 1: it relates to your championships, which is the only place

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Speaker 1: that any of this actually matters, and just isolate that

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Speaker 1: situation and say and do whatever you want, make the

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Speaker 1: rules that you want to have people to adhere to,

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Speaker 1: and then let everybody else decide if that's something they

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Speaker 1: want to do at their tournament, at their course, in

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Speaker 1: their search coumstensus, not unlike, you know, let's go all

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Speaker 1: the way down to go Hill Park in the Wishbone

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Speaker 1: bral where John Asher says in order to have the

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Speaker 1: course record, you have to play Per Simmons, and the

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Speaker 1: Wishbone Ball brawl is played with Per Simmons and men

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Speaker 1: play against women. And it's all, you know, like, there

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Speaker 1: is ways to do this that simply you know, blanket

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Speaker 1: statements and doing these this rule rule changes and rollbacks

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Speaker 1: to the masses just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what No, seriously, let's get back. Why wouldn't they just

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Speaker 1: do that and make ball. They're sitting on it, piles

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Speaker 1: of cash. They've used these championships to raise the money

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Speaker 1: to you know, they have the money, go make.

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Speaker 2: You own ball.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's it makes sense except the most important tournaments.

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Speaker 4: And now you're if the players, you know, twenty five

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Speaker 4: weeks a year, are you using a different ball on

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Speaker 4: the tour because they don't want to give up that

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Speaker 4: competitive advantage because other guys are using it. Then you

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Speaker 4: come to the Masters of the US Open. It's the

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Speaker 4: most important championship. You got to learn this new ball

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Speaker 4: and then you know, it's it's to be fun.

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Speaker 2: It'd be interesting. It'd be a great talking point.

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Speaker 1: But baseball, you go to a different field. You got

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Speaker 1: to hit it further and right field, then you have

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Speaker 1: to go to left field. You've got you know that's true.

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Speaker 4: I mean in tennis, you know, tennis is messed with

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Speaker 4: the ball different on different surfaces and different things like

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Speaker 4: it wouldn't be unprecedented, they would just be. It would

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Speaker 4: be a big deal. It would be a sea change.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would love this. It's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: This is a big deal. We are talking about people

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Speaker 1: who pay to play. You're making rules because of what

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Speaker 1: you see based on people who get paid to play

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Speaker 1: that impact the people who pay to play. That's a

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Speaker 1: bad decision. This is your client, tele this is your customer.

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Speaker 1: This These are the people thirty years ago that you

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Speaker 1: would have given anything to have them show up and

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Speaker 1: pay to play this game. And they're here now and

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Speaker 1: we're saying and we're going to shut the door on

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Speaker 1: their face and say, uh sorry, I know the game

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Speaker 1: is hard. It's really hard. That's why the game is

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Speaker 1: so hard that things like top golf and Part three

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Speaker 1: courses and short courses, and that that's the actual trend

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Speaker 1: that's happening right now. Sustainability issues, well, guess what the

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Speaker 1: game is already shrinking, grasses are improving, pottable water is

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Speaker 1: going away and more. The trend is to reclaim water

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Speaker 1: to water these golf courses. So throw the sustainability stuff

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Speaker 1: out and it's going to correct itself by water prices

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Speaker 1: and everything that else is involved. This is not the

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Speaker 1: solution to anything related to sustainability. This is not the

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Speaker 1: solution to grow the game. And all the marketing efforts

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Speaker 1: that you've put forward governing bodies to try to get

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Speaker 1: us there, all of that is now a massive contradiction

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Speaker 1: and a big, unnecessary pr nightmare that we're all going

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Speaker 1: to have to endure for the next tk coming years.

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Speaker 1: And it's unnecessary and it's driving me crazy because you

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Speaker 1: know why, and I think we can all agree we

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Speaker 1: love this game.

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Speaker 2: Why do we love.

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Speaker 1: This game because of the places it takes us, the

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Speaker 1: people we meet, the relationships we forge, the experiences we have,

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Speaker 1: the opportunities we have to have that camaraderie community and

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Speaker 1: show up and also share it with the people who

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Speaker 1: matter most family, friends, our children, their children. So the

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Speaker 1: reason why I want to grow the game, and why

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Speaker 1: I was so supportive of the Grow the Game efforts

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Speaker 1: and why everyone got behind that movement is that very reason,

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Speaker 1: because we want people to have the experiences that we've

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Speaker 1: all been blessed to have relating to golf. If you

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Speaker 1: suck the game of golf out of my life and

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Speaker 1: all the relationships I've had because of golf, I'd have

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Speaker 1: almost nothing. That's why I care about it. That's why

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Speaker 1: I post, and that's why I want it to continue

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Speaker 1: to grow, because golf creates good people, and good people

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Speaker 1: is exactly what we need right now in this world.

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Speaker 1: And if the person that's showing up and playing music

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Speaker 1: too loud or is not conforming to the general etiquette

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Speaker 1: of what the game is, guess what. We stop them

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Speaker 1: and go.

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Speaker 2: By the way.

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Speaker 1: Carts can't drive over the green. Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: this is goad Hill Park. This John Ashworth created this community.

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Speaker 1: Please don't just run over arbitrarily. The signs that are

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Speaker 1: saying parts this way. You coach them up. That's part

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Speaker 1: of the process that community kicks in and we right

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Speaker 1: the ship and we correct the wrongs and we make

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Speaker 1: better people because of it. Why is first t exists?

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Speaker 1: Why does uthon course happen because you want kids in

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Speaker 1: the game so that they can become better people.

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Speaker 2: What are we doing?

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Speaker 1: Matt?

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Speaker 2: I wish you had some passion on this.

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Speaker 1: So this is madness. The governing bodies literally loaded a

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Speaker 1: gun and just shot themselves in their own feet.

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Speaker 4: Well, okay, let me play Devil's advocate here. I mean,

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Speaker 4: for the beginning golfer. I agree that optically it's not

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Speaker 4: a great message. But for people who just learn to

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Speaker 4: play the game, who don't swing the club that hard

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Speaker 4: or well, they probably won't even notice the difference when

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Speaker 4: the ball goes back. Well that's the question. I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's why bifurcation would have made sense. I think you know, Michael,

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Speaker 4: your point was it? And I like the top flight

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Speaker 4: versus provy one. Maybe some of us would know the difference,

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Speaker 4: But if we're talking about the beginners, they certain they

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Speaker 4: certainly wouldn't. They're just trying to find the club phase.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Michael, in your mind, what what is the

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Speaker 4: way forward? Like, where does the game go from this moment?

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Speaker 5: Well, the greatness about the about the four majors when

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Speaker 5: people actually do watch golf and like say Hartford and

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Speaker 5: waste Man, well, Wasteman, it's not for an example, but

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Speaker 5: you know, the ordinary pH to event or the ordinary

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Speaker 5: live event is that those events invited massive, massive audiences.

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Speaker 5: And this this dovetails with with with with medicine. And

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Speaker 5: if we when we watch ordinary golf, it's driver eight

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Speaker 5: iron or driver sandwich into so many part forwards and

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Speaker 5: we can't relate because we're not doing that. But if

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Speaker 5: those four, let's call it, even five times a year,

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Speaker 5: if the players got on board with it, if you

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Speaker 5: did have a special ball for those events, it would

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Speaker 5: make golf even more inviting because we the public and

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Speaker 5: especially beginners people near to the game, would relate even

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Speaker 5: more to what they're doing on TV because it would

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Speaker 5: at least start to approach what we're doing, which isn't

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Speaker 5: happening now. Now the game is so bifurcated already, but

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Speaker 5: they're not willing to admit it. You know. Rory McRoy

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Speaker 5: said that the other day, he said, you think the

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Speaker 5: clubs that I played and you play are the same.

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Speaker 5: Of course not. They're so finally tuned to their exact needs.

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Speaker 5: We go to Dick's Sporting Goods about whatever the guy

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Speaker 5: gives us, or if the person gives us. So I

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Speaker 5: think there is really I think that governing bodies didn't

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Speaker 5: really really identify the problem. The problem is not running

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Speaker 5: out of land at ninety nine percent of the thick

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Speaker 5: golf courses. It's this tiny sliver of courses where they

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Speaker 5: are running out of land. They can't make the course

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Speaker 5: long enough, and we can't really relate to what they're doing.

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Speaker 5: And to your point Alan about, you know, would it

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Speaker 5: really would it be fair to make a guy to play,

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Speaker 5: you know, one ball twenty five weeks a year. To

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Speaker 5: Bad's point about, you know, you got a short porch,

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Speaker 5: you know, Fenway and a different one at Yankee Stadium

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Speaker 5: and Rety and all the rest. Adjust, just adjust. It

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Speaker 5: would be another part of the challenge. So I think

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Speaker 5: it would. I think it would have been really neat.

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Speaker 5: You know, of course we're not old enough to remember it,

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Speaker 5: but the diming rule was once to think, can you

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Speaker 5: imagine at one point, you know, people are like, can

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Speaker 5: you believe they're going to give it to the steming rule?

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Speaker 5: Now that this next generation hasn't even heard of it,

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Speaker 5: And why would they so like if you did something

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Speaker 5: quote radical, like actually give the athlete a ball to

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Speaker 5: use in these four or five different tournaments, it would

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Speaker 5: seem crazy and outrageous for a while, and then it

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Speaker 5: just wouldn't. It would just be normal. And of course,

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Speaker 5: of course in every other sport pretty much except for bowling,

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Speaker 5: that's what happens the governing body because every putting on

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Speaker 5: the event gives you a ball and go play. And

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Speaker 5: even to the last thing. I know, the manufacturers would

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Speaker 5: go crazy about this, but you could even have of

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Speaker 5: course it would be expensive and blah blah blah, but

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Speaker 5: you could have the different manufacturers make the tournament ball

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Speaker 5: that would be used in these four or five different tournaments. Okay, great,

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Speaker 5: they can still get their name out there.

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Speaker 1: The thing, the other thing that drives me crazy just

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Speaker 1: to say, is like, why why just the ball, Like

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Speaker 1: you know, let's roll back mowing, let's row back mowers,

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Speaker 1: and let's go to longer length fairways, let's grow out rough.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the pros don't like to play with long rough,

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Speaker 1: so guess what, there's no more long rough anyway. They

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Speaker 1: don't play in long rough. They don't. They don't really

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Speaker 1: like it. You know the pros are going to always

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Speaker 1: just do this is this is a such a small

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Speaker 1: set and an entertainment factor factory, and they're getting paid

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Speaker 1: to put on a show and what we think the

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Speaker 1: show should be or could be or supposed to be,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if they don't if they don't go

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Speaker 1: along with it. It's like you still need to get

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Speaker 1: buy in from them. And if you get buy in

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Speaker 1: from them, then it doesn't matter from us. And once

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Speaker 1: they passed on it, then why are Why is the

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Speaker 1: solution then to to to go and pick on everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know, everybody at school, Like it just makes no

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Speaker 1: sense to me.

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Speaker 4: They did address the fairway height in the in the

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Speaker 4: in the report on the distance, and they said it

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Speaker 4: was pretty negligible in two to four yards maybe longer.

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Speaker 1: Fairweaight cards For what they're saying, right, it is like

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Speaker 1: you know almost a third of what they're actually proposing.

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Speaker 1: So if you take fairway length, if you limit the

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Speaker 1: loft in the club head and say okay, you can

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Speaker 1: only use thirteen degrees and higher, you can't go down

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Speaker 1: to an eight degree loft, if you can only have

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Speaker 1: a certain length of shaft, if you can only have

390
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Speaker 1: a certain clubhead size. You know, why, why does it

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Speaker 1: have anything really to do? You know, like why do

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Speaker 1: you just single out the ball and just say.

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Speaker 2: That's the issue. You know, hard and faster.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing the ball roll thirty to seventy yards after

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Speaker 1: it lands on these fairways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think on some level.

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Speaker 4: The ball is an easy scale go if you wanted

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Speaker 4: to get into the systemic issues and you could go

399
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Speaker 4: down a rabbit hole, you know, you could regulate t

400
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Speaker 4: height you get to.

401
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Speaker 1: We are in that hole. This is where we are.

402
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Speaker 1: This is where we've we've we we are not going

403
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Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole. We have been shoved into.

404
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Speaker 2: The rabbit hole.

405
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, unnecessarily. And that's also part of my frustration.

406
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Speaker 1: You know, the professional game, as you guys both know,

407
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Speaker 1: is an absolute shit show, dumpster fire, uh, inside out,

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Speaker 1: upside down and backwards. It's it's just like to the

409
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Speaker 1: point where people are tuning out and moving on at

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Speaker 1: a big at a big rate, and now the governing

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Speaker 1: bodies of the so called quote masses are going to

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Speaker 1: throw this grenade into that room.

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Speaker 2: Well, it does.

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Speaker 4: It does get interesting because golf but louder does not

415
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Speaker 4: really dovetail with shorter driving distances. So what Live is

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Speaker 4: going to do and what the PGA Tour is going

417
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Speaker 4: to do, and they don't have to be in lockstep

418
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Speaker 4: assuming this framework agreement blows up, even if it's consummated,

419
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Speaker 4: like they're not bound by there's no nitty gritty in

420
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Speaker 4: that that they're gonna have to follow the same competition rules.

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Speaker 4: So then you can you know what one tour does

422
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Speaker 4: versus the other. To your point, Matt, it gets messy.

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Speaker 2: I think Michael.

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Speaker 4: Mentioned this earlier. I mean professional golf on TV has

425
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Speaker 4: never been more boring, and some of that is just

426
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Speaker 4: the style of play when they do go to I

427
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Speaker 4: think it's like that old Donald Ross course outside Detroit.

428
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Speaker 4: I mean, the guys are in wedge into every single hole.

429
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Speaker 4: Is just so boring because you give a pro a

430
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 4: wedge either going to hit a great shot or a

431
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 4: good shot. There's no danger. You know, either they're going

432
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Speaker 4: to be thirty feet, they're going to be five feet.

433
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Speaker 4: But the range of outcomes is so small. That's why

434
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 4: I like bifurcation. I like the more severe rollback where

435
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 4: the game becomes more interesting to Watts.

436
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: In the first four by f Kid, I was for

437
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 1: just for the record, I'm for by furcation. Do whatever,

438
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, like do whatever you want to do the

439
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: pros and and get them on board.

440
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 4: And that's said that to me is such a miss.

441
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: Here is you know, the the PGA tour helped kill it.

442
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 4: I mean they're still writing letters to the USG They're

443
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 4: still pushing back, and it's their product that's suffering. I mean,

444
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 4: their product has never been more anadyne and more just

445
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 4: it's just predictable. And it's their product, you know what

446
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 4: I mean, Like look at the NFL. What a mess

447
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 4: the NFL is, But it's their product. Like they're gonna

448
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 4: have to address the tush push like that's you know,

449
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 4: you know, I don't Calvin Johnson came along. He was

450
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 4: really tall and he's unguardable. Randy Moss was an elite

451
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 4: athlete who was basically unstoppable for a chunk of time.

452
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 4: I mean Tom Brady won seven supers, you know, was

453
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 4: it played in seven Super Bowls?

454
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 2: Like what what?

455
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: Like does that mean? We just have like what do

456
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: we what are we doing? We just sort of react

457
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: based on everything that continues to happen at the elite level.

458
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: And the difference here being is that you're making decisions

459
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 1: that affect the people who pay to play. What if

460
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: you put polls in front of everybody's seats in the

461
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 1: grandstands of people who are watching football and say we're

462
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: gonna make it harder for you to watch the game

463
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: that you're paying to play.

464
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 5: Matt, what would you answer to this question if let's

465
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 5: say Mike Wan and Slumbers and Fred Ridley called you

466
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 5: zoom called just like this one. They said, Mat, You've

467
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 5: been around the game all your life. What do you

468
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 5: see as the issue with the game right now as

469
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 5: it relates to this one narrow thing? How far the

470
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 5: golf ball goes?

471
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: I don't see it. I do not do well. I

472
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 1: just don't see it. Buddies trip we have on our

473
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: annual Buddies trip, we have a range of plus handicaps

474
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: to twenty four handicaps. If anything, distance is an issue

475
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: for the greater majority of the people on the trip

476
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: in terms of the ball doesn't go far enough golf.

477
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: Go go play lido.

478
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: Right now from the forward t's and if you shoot

479
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: your handicap, I'll send you a hat. Right now, Go

480
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: play the lido at Sand Valley. And you think you're

481
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: going to go out there and overpower that golf course.

482
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: This is one of the old classics that was built

483
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: to be a tough golf course. Like, you know, I

484
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: don't see it. I don't see it anywhere. I don't

485
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: see it at Tory Pines. I don't see it at

486
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: Beth Page. I don't see the distance is not an

487
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: issue unless we turn on the TV and we think

488
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: we're going to ask ourselves. And if you're at a

489
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: private club and distance is an issue, maybe you have

490
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: an issue with an architecture of that golf course or

491
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: where that bunker was originally. Like, really, there's enough people

492
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: in your membership at your private club that you all

493
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: pay to play that this is a problem that should

494
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: in somehow impact the masses. Do whatever you want at

495
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: your club, do whatever you want at the pur But

496
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: for the people who rock up at goad Hill Park

497
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: forty five yards par sixty five, eight par threes, you

498
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: know what the issue is. It's golf is too hard.

499
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: That's the issue. So anything we're doing to make it

500
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: harder makes no sense, and it's going to affect the

501
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: bottom line at that little mini municipal who's fighting for

502
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: its life to try to get more people to rock

503
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: up and pay to play.

504
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 5: Alan, what do you what do you think? Alan? What

505
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 5: do you think? Like? My contention is they haven't really

506
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 5: been forth right about what they think the problem is.

507
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 5: But what is what's your take on.

508
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 4: When you say they are you are you talking about

509
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 4: the ruling bodies as the day.

510
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they think the.

511
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 5: Problem is really really whether they're saying it publicly or not.

512
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Matt touched on the problem is that

513
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 4: the two tournaments are being most affected by the distance

514
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 4: explosion is the US Open and the British Open, because

515
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 4: they're locked into these old traditional venues that have gotten

516
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 4: so short. And it's we have a measuring stick and

517
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 4: you go back to the old course every five years

518
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 4: you can see, you know, no one's hitting drive off eighteenymore.

519
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 4: It is too short at the old course. I mean

520
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 4: it's a three wooded computer. In five years are going

521
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 4: to be you know, uh Lude, big a bear and

522
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 4: and Gordon Sargent. I'm gonna be hitting three irons and

523
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 4: driving the green quickly quickly.

524
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 5: I would definitely add as Nation to that list. I

525
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 5: guess too, so that everybody and their mother reaches eight

526
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 5: now No, so that, so that that is the issue

527
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 5: for the governing vice.

528
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: They've been asleep at the wheel for decades.

529
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 4: Distances have gone unchecked, and where it's most obvious is

530
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 4: at their most important championships. And so I think they're embarrassed,

531
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 4: Like you know, they play the old course they have

532
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 4: they put tea's on the eden and the new course

533
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 4: and in ob areas and all this ridiculousness just to

534
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 4: try and make it something like the shot values that

535
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 4: have always been there.

536
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 2: So that's what I think.

537
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 4: That's why I think is driving this is they have

538
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: egg on their face every year when it's clear that

539
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 4: their their malfeasance and their ineptitude has allowed the professional

540
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 4: game to become to run amok, and so they they

541
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 4: have to do something because of their own championships.

542
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 2: It's only two.

543
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 5: Weeks a year, just for four or five weeks a year. Yeah, Like, no,

544
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 5: no LPG event feels that way that I could imagine,

545
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 5: no way. Now players felt the player the TPC sawgrass course,

546
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 5: they would probably identify with all of that. Got me,

547
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 5: eighteen Can you match your guys playing eighteen at the

548
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 5: three arn and a six arm? Which they do? You

549
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 5: know you hit a three arm and you hit it

550
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 5: right down the right side the Boks and then you'll

551
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 5: hit a cut six iron in there. I mean, that's

552
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 5: not what Pete I wanted. So so okay, I think

553
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 5: that I'm based on what you just said, we're totally

554
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 5: on the same page. So on that basis, I'm with

555
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 5: you with the line in the sand. But why not,

556
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 5: as Matt and I have both been saying, why not

557
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 5: just have a golf ball for these four or five

558
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 5: weeks a year.

559
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 4: It's certainly feasible, And now that's going to be the

560
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: only solution since since they've officially punted on bifurcation as

561
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: a governing principle, then the tournament ball becomes the last hope.

562
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 4: But to me, I mean, I like you said, I

563
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: think you said it. Well, Michael, it seems crazy, but

564
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 4: then after a couple of years, it's not a big deal.

565
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 4: And you know, when I coached high school basketball, we

566
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 4: use a certain kind of basketball all year long. We

567
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: get to the CCS playoffs, they have a deal a

568
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 4: different manufacturer. They handle this ball pre game. It feels weird,

569
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 4: it doesn't dribble the same. The girls don't like it. Well,

570
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 4: too bad. This is the ball we're using. You got

571
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: fifteen minutes of warmups to get used to it, and

572
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 4: you go play. It's still a round ball that bounces,

573
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 4: so I mean it exists in sports like but.

574
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 5: That is sport right there. It's like when when Phil

575
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 5: complained about the two hundred and seventy yard par three

576
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 5: may who cares? Is two seventy for everybody? Done? Right there.

577
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: College baseball players play their whole lives with middle bats,

578
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: and in order to make the pros, they have to

579
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: adjust to a wooden bat. The you know, the the goat.

580
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: Let's let's pull the caddies. Okay, let's go to Saint

581
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: Andrews and the Old Course and ask the caddies if

582
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: we think we need to roll the ball back to

583
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: make the Old Course more relevant. Let's go to Pebble

584
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: Beach and ask the caddies if we think this is

585
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: a good idea to roll the ball back for the

586
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: people who are rocking up and playing Pebble Beach. I

587
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: know for a fact that the caddies at Sand Valley

588
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: dread the idea that they're going to have to caddy

589
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: for these amateurs at the Lido on a daily basis

590
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: and have to witness the carnage that's going to be

591
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: displayed out there for all these people who love the

592
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: architecture and playing one of these classical golf courses and

593
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: they're making putting out for sixes, sevens, eights. Please pick

594
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: it up, you're making a nine. Please, it's over. Let's

595
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: go and talk to the caddies about which course they

596
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: like to caddy at Bandon Dunes more is it Pacific

597
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: Dunes or is it is it Sheep Ranch? Like this

598
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: is like this.

599
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: This is this right?

600
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: So okay, this is where we've come to in this podcast.

601
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 4: We all three of us agree they should have bifurcated.

602
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: They didn't.

603
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 4: So now an interesting question becomes what happens in seven years,

604
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 4: Like will will the golfers rebel? Will they just will

605
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: they just opt out? You know, none of us are

606
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 4: playing in big time amateur events. We're just playing with

607
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 4: our friends. So when you get to the first t

608
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: in two thousand and January first, two thousand and thirty,

609
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 4: do you say, boys, you know, I've got some pro

610
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 4: v ones that are year and a half old.

611
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to use them. I don't know what you got,

612
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: you know, like.

613
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 4: It's it's just like when we play, we grant each

614
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 4: other mulligans. Occasionally there's certainly gimme's, Like all of us

615
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 4: have our own low key interpretation of the rules as

616
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 4: it is now. So what do you think will the

617
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: average golfer embrace the new dead ball? Or in mass

618
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 4: are we just going to vote with our pocketbooks and

619
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 4: ignore the rule?

620
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: Like, what's going to happen?

621
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 5: People are going to be I don't care. People are

622
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 5: going to be I don't care. You know, I've been

623
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 5: playing these iwos. I don't know if they're legal or not.

624
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 5: I think they are. I think their grandfather did. I

625
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 5: don't care. Now if it was actually playing in something

626
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 5: where someone cared and said, okay, well if you care them,

627
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 5: I care. But otherwise I don't care.

628
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, so, Matt, Matt, you you organize an

629
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: annual Buddies trip. People know about the Uncle Tony motasal Michael,

630
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 4: you have an annual gathering called the Shiviz where you

631
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 4: bring together, you know, a couple dozen guys to play.

632
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 4: So what is going to happen in twenty thirty? Are

633
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 4: you going to have to specify to this motley crew

634
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 4: of friends who come from all over the country have

635
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 4: different backgrounds in golf, different handicaps, different world views. Are

636
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 4: you going to say what ball they have to do?

637
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 5: Is? Mean course, the answers is known. And to your

638
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 5: point out you know this word bifurkate, it seems to

639
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 5: be like the one dressed up. You know, tiger love

640
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 5: is the word. It's been using it for years, like

641
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 5: people seem to know what the word is, but the

642
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 5: word is so abused. The game is not bifurkate. We

643
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 5: just play a totally different game. My little thing, you know, uh,

644
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 5: that has all sort of its own quirks as well.

645
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 5: And my thing, you can't make worse than triple. There's

646
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 5: nothing in the rule but says you can't make worse

647
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 5: than triple. But in my thing, you can't make worse

648
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 5: and triple. And the whole handicap system is the whole

649
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 5: entire handicap system is quote bifurcated. Because you're supposed to

650
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 5: turn in a stroke play score where putts are routinely given.

651
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 5: Those two things don't go in the hand in hand, right.

652
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 5: The gimme is a real thing in match play, and

653
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 5: it's totally an anomaly or not anomaly. It's it's anathema

654
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 5: to shop play competition, yet you combine the two so

655
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 5: that the PG excuse me, the governing has done a

656
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 5: very poor job of explaining that there really are two

657
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 5: different games. And and I think that's I think that's

658
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 5: a starting point recording seven years fround. I don't think

659
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 5: allan anyone's going to I don't think anyone's going to

660
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 5: care if.

661
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 4: We I don't know, Well, this is a thought exercise.

662
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 4: Matt twenty thirty. Uncle Tony Invitational. Hopefully I'm there. Let's

663
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 4: say you hopefully I'm there.

664
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I.

665
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: Won't maybe names like Kevin Price.

666
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 4: But we have some hardos who like really follow the

667
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 4: rules of golf and are really into that. So some

668
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 4: of the guys come up to the Uncle Tony they

669
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 4: have the dead balls. I say, you know what, I'm

670
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 4: not down with the USGA. I'm I'm using my old ball.

671
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: Gives me an advantage.

672
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 4: I win the Uncle Tony Invitational. Some guys are pissed

673
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 4: off because I use an old ball and I had

674
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 4: an advantage, Like you, as the commissioner, how are you

675
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 4: going to deal with that?

676
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: I did you know I kicked people out for not

677
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: wanting music. You know, I kick people out for you know,

678
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: bringing sh campaign instead of whine or tequila like that.

679
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: You know, I kick people out for complaining about who

680
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: they're paired with. Like I'm not kicking people out for

681
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: you know. We we go to Bandon Dune's and we

682
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: play the sixty two hundred yard tees and we let

683
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: the uncles you know, go all the way up where

684
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: you know, play from wherever you want to essentially play from.

685
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing everything I can to try to make this

686
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: more fun. I always say my first advice to any

687
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: alpha planner of a Buddy's trip is play down to

688
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: your lowest common denominator. Essentially, in terms of budget, you've

689
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: got to make sure you don't price people out of

690
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: the destination. You want to make sure everybody comes along.

691
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: You want to have the highest handicappers be able to

692
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: have a chance to have fun and win. I don't

693
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: cater to like the two or three plus handicaps on

694
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: the trip and let the rest of the people suffer

695
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: the consequences. In fact, I let the lowest handicappers play

696
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: from where the forward tease so that we don't buy

697
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: for Kate the camaraderie of the event by having those

698
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: guys go all the way to the back teas and

699
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: us having to wait for them to hit, and then

700
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: we all wait and then we then hit. Oh I forgot, Sorry,

701
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: we have one more. I didn't know. You have to

702
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 1: hit like I'm trying to accommodate the group, the masses,

703
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: because everybody is paying to be there. And if the

704
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: good players end up shooting sixty five instead of shit

705
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: sixty nine, I don't really give a shit. I say,

706
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: that's really well played. All he done is pro is

707
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: an exceptional player. He has struggled the last few years.

708
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: He got his game in gear. He had four rounds

709
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: in the sixties, including on the Leado, which is great golf,

710
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: and he won the tournament. As you know, he and

711
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: his partner Andrew Fleming had a five or six handicap,

712
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: won the tournament. They beat all the net players because

713
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: they played the best golf. I don't really give it.

714
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: I don't really give a shit. And going back to

715
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: the tournament ball and the US in the RNA taking

716
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: the pile of cash that they're all sitting on that

717
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: they've been taking for all the entrants and all the

718
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: people who paid to be a part of these tournaments

719
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: and all the merchandise it's been sold. Making a tournament

720
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: ball and throwing up a purse of twenty million or

721
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: how are amid millions of dollars they put in terms

722
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: of a purse for the United States Open and hoist

723
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,959
Speaker 1: that big trophy and have one of the majors. They

724
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: are sitting with the leverage in the power because they've

725
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: got the money for those events. If they set a

726
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: price of what you're playing for and this is the

727
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: US Open and it's a major championship, but you have

728
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: to play this tournament ball that we've created, people would

729
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: play it. And if the players don't want to play it,

730
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: they don't play it. Make it about that small slice

731
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: and ignore the rest of us and leave us alone.

732
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 4: So we have an emerging consensus on this podcast. They

733
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 4: should have bifurcated. They didn't. Now they should go to

734
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 4: a tournament ball. And the thing that's interesting is if

735
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 4: they were to do that, that would be great for

736
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 4: Goat Hill because and shorter courses because not everybody wants

737
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 4: to buy percimmons or as access to Percimmons. But you

738
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 4: could go to Goat and you play the tournament ball,

739
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 4: and now instead of forty five hundred yards, it plays

740
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 4: more like fifty five hundred and essentially, you know, you

741
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 4: could take these these deador balls to par three courses

742
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 4: like Golden Gate Park, hit More Club if you want to.

743
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 4: Like I was actually on Grand Cayman, like I think

744
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 4: I was in high school and I played the Cayman

745
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 4: ball on that little course and it was like it

746
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 4: was fun. You know, you're playing a eighty yard hole

747
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 4: and you're hitting a three wood or whatever. And I

748
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 4: mean as as we as we we've been celebrating all

749
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 4: these part three courses, Like I think if you have

750
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 4: this this tournament ball, that you could be mass marketed

751
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 4: for shorter courses.

752
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: That could be fun. It just that's all the real.

753
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean, people I walk up to go with Friday Skins.

754
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: Guys put in twenty bucks, some guys play Percimmons, some

755
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: guys out Todd Dempsey. Right now, as we're talking in

756
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: this conversation, through one round of the PGA Tour champions

757
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: Q School is four under par. He's playing the Q

758
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: School with Per Simmons that he made that he made

759
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: hand crafted. Todd Dempsey legend, Arizona State. Like this guy

760
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: is like a bona fide badass. He rolled it back himself,

761
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: and he's competing with the rest. He should roll back

762
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: is there. If you want it, you want it, go

763
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: take it, have at it, roll it back, do whatever

764
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: you want until you're blue in the face. I could

765
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: care less leave us alone.

766
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 5: Tapping on what ball he's using.

767
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: No, if he's using a gut of perza, I'll be

768
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 2: really impressed.

769
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: Not Yeah, it's not all right.

770
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 4: Well it's it's an interesting topic and it gets people

771
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 4: fired up, as listeners have heard on this podcast, especially.

772
00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 5: Where are you going in Australia?

773
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, we should we should mention that it's it's Wednesday,

774
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 4: late morning here in California. I'm going to be driving

775
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 4: to SFO here in a little bit and I'm going

776
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 4: to be flying to Melbourne, Australia for Jeff Ogilvie and

777
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 4: Michael Clayton's sand Belt Invitational, one of the coolest little

778
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 4: tournaments in golf. We've been covering it the last couple

779
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 4: of years on Firepit Collective dot com.

780
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: I was just doing it from Afar.

781
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 4: We had some video guys who are on site, but

782
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 4: I'm making the trip this year. I will be doing

783
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 4: daily dispatches, fun stuff on social try and wrangle a

784
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 4: few homies for a podcast perhaps and you know I've

785
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 4: I'll tweet it out. I Matt and I and a

786
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 4: couple other our friends did this the ultimate golf trip

787
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: probably in the history of golf trips, right for COVID

788
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 4: hit and we did Melbourne and Tasmania and king Island

789
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 4: that's in between, and it was it was epic. Also

790
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 4: New Zealand. I can't believe we did that in eight days.

791
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 4: And yeah, Melbourne is one of the all time great destinations.

792
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: So I'm excited. I'll bring my golf clubs.

793
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be a little busy, but hopefully I can

794
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 4: sneak in some golf and it's it's just gonna be

795
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 4: It's gonna be a fun time. And I hope people

796
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 4: follow along because if you if you haven't paid attention

797
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: to the stamp but invitational, it brings together the pros and amateurs,

798
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 4: men and women, some some old AUSSI legends. You know,

799
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: we're seniors now playing it. So it's multi generation. It's

800
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 4: just they play a different course every day. Royal Melbourne,

801
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 4: Kingston Heath Peninsula, Kingwood, which is a neo Classic and

802
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 4: the fourth.

803
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: The fourth venue rotates this year.

804
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 4: It's Victoria, where there's a statue of Peter Thompson by

805
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 4: the first tea waiting to pass judgment on your t

806
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 4: shot and great golf course. Super fun place. We last

807
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 4: night of our trip, we stayed in the clubhouse there

808
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 4: and they have some rooms and.

809
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 2: We were the people.

810
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 4: The members kind of knew We've been on social media

811
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 4: for weeks playing all these golf courses and so they

812
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 4: were happy are there and one of the most fun

813
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 4: nights ever had in golf travel because they were so

814
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 4: welcoming and.

815
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,760
Speaker 2: Want to hear all our tall tales.

816
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 4: So I'm looking forward to getting back to Victoria and yeah,

817
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 4: it's it's gonna be good fun.

818
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 2: Thanks for mentioning that, Michael.

819
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 5: I appreciate that. That shows you how much sway Clayton and

820
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 5: Ogle we have in the game when you when you

821
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 5: cite those courses, I mean, for people know Dolphin Australia,

822
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 5: that's uh, Marion and Seminole and Augusta National and psych Melbourne.

823
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: Melbourne is like taking the best of Philadelphia, the best

824
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: of Chicago, the best of San Francisco, and the best

825
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: of New York and putting them all in like you know,

826
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: within driving distance, like within a very short amount. It's

827
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: an embarrassment of ridge. They have so many they can

828
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: rotate for the next few years and you'd never have

829
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: to play the same one over and over again. Victoria.

830
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: I got the chance to stay at Victoria Golf. We

831
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: we stayed in those little those rooms above the club out.

832
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's such an incredible golf course. And the

833
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: way that those fairways cut into those greens and there's

834
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 1: you know, and then on into those bunkers.

835
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: It's like it's it's so pure.

836
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: It is so pure well and.

837
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 5: Just as quick quick as I hear. But it relates

838
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 5: to our theme when when Tiger played as the playing

839
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 5: captain in that i think twenty nineteen President's Cup, the

840
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 5: shots that he played there were so inventive and so

841
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 5: much more interesting than you know, the smash mouth golf

842
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 5: that we're customers saying. You know, i'd say at Hartford,

843
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 5: I'm not picking a Hartford, but that's what they do there.

844
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 5: It's a long, you know, it's a short, soft course,

845
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 5: but it was just interesting, and you know, maybe it's

846
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 5: a function of my age and the kind of golf

847
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 5: I grew up watching that. You know, I'm so drawn

848
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 5: to that kind of golf. But I don't know anybody

849
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 5: couldn't say that that was that's not better golf, and

850
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 5: that's that's the joy of the old course. It really

851
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 5: should be the joy of Augusta National only, especially when

852
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 5: it's dry at all, is to see guys pay fiddly

853
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 5: finesse difficult shots out of difficult lies in the ball move.

854
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 5: So anyway, I don't have a great grade trip, but

855
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 5: I think on the point that golf gets more interesting

856
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 5: when the ball is not so hot. And you know,

857
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 5: I just want to wrap up one quick thought here

858
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 5: because I feel like maybe i've been too harsh harsh

859
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 5: on the governing bodies, and I really do agree with

860
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 5: that first thing you said, you did have to do something,

861
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 5: and this is doing something, and I do think it's

862
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 5: a good thing that they're doing it, and they are

863
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 5: giving a lot a lot of the time, but it's

864
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 5: a major but it's not going to do anything for

865
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 5: the real issue that I think facing golf, which is

866
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 5: are these great courses from yesteryear are going to become relics?

867
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 5: That's really the honest to god issue, And I think

868
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 5: they have not really been willing to say that out loud.

869
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: And I just want I want to clear up one

870
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 1: little factoid. Tom Brady played in ten Super Bowls, one

871
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: seven of them. We celebrate his greatness. Steph Curry is,

872
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: you know, revolutionizing the game of basketball, and we celebrate

873
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: Steph Curry's greatness. Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, you know, scored

874
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: one hundred points and they didn't raise the rim like

875
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: I Just what sort of always kind of half bugs

876
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: me about the game of golf is we can never

877
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: be satisfied and just simply celebrate greatness without overreacting and

878
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: tigerproofing or you know, rolling back the ball like it

879
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: just for whatever reason, we can't just simply say that's amazing, congratulations.

880
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 5: And just a quickholo of that. Matt just proves how genius,

881
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 5: not really the golf governing guys can be. Is they

882
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 5: got they got tigetproofing totally wrong. Exactly you got it right,

883
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 5: was Nick Price. So you want to tigerproof, go to

884
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 5: sixty six hundred.

885
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: Yards less is more. It's the answer to this has

886
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: always been shorter is the answer, not necessarily for the

887
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: ball but for the courses and the architecture and the

888
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: turnpoints and make it, make them be more accurate. And

889
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm bummed. But I love golf. I know

890
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: we all love golf. Anybody who's listening right now still

891
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: loves golf. And this, to me is a bruise on

892
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: the game.

893
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 5: I don't agree that. I don't think this is any

894
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 5: certa crisis. I think it's more like nothing.

895
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: It's unnecessary, it's unnecessary.

896
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 2: It's kind of an own goal.

897
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 4: Well, I'm just gonna wrap up by saying that I

898
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 4: hope I'm still still Michael Clayton.

899
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: By the way, No, don't let him in, leave him

900
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 2: in the waiting room.

901
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, why don't we, Alan, Why don't we let Michael go?

902
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: And let's say a load to Michael.

903
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: For another, doctor Bamberger, thank you? Yes, oh my god.

904
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna patch Michael Clayton in. He's coming on.

905
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: As Bamberger is saying goodbye, We're trading one Michael for another.

906
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: We're going from Philly to Melbourne. Quite an exciting thing.

907
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: But we're gonna actually stop this podcast down. If you

908
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: care to listen to conversations with Michael Clayton that'll be

909
00:46:55,560 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: part two of our rollback conversation, Big Gun.

910
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 3: I played the wind, made a fortune. When my ship

911
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 3: came in, I ran the table, never thought I could

912
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 3: fall down. The winter time hit me like a cannon

913
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 3: in the ball, and now I can't shape this losing streak.

914
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 3: Every road I take is a dead end street. I

915
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 3: got thoughts in my head, can't get them out, trying

916
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 3: not to think what I'm thinking about. I got the

917
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 3: thoughts in my head. I can't get them out, trying

918
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 3: not to think what I'm thinking about.