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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, did you ever think about being an astronaut?

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to be an astronaut from some points

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Speaker 1: of view, like I wanted to be out in space.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see the stars, I wanted to see

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Speaker 1: the Earth under me. But I was also sort of

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Speaker 1: terrified of getting up there. It's really extremely difficult. Like

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Speaker 1: I talked to an astronaut at last year and he

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Speaker 1: said it was like writing the tip of an explosion

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Speaker 1: to be on a rocket, and that scares me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: especially after the Challenger disaster. You know, that was very

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Speaker 1: vivid in my mind when I was a kid. It

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Speaker 1: seems terrifying and it seems dangerous, and it is. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're you're it's just basically you strapped to a rocket,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's you're literally writing an explosion. You're

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Speaker 1: like surfing a fireball. But would you want to go

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Speaker 1: to space if it was easier? Yeah? I think so.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you could just like, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: get in your car and say, take me to space

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Speaker 1: or something like that series take me to Space, Google

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Speaker 1: Directions to Space. Please. Well, what if it was just

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Speaker 1: as easy as getting into an elevator and then pressing

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Speaker 1: the space button. I think I would sign up for that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: que the elevator music. Hey guys, this is Jorge and

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel, and welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge

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Speaker 1: Explain the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio, in

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Speaker 1: which we take crazy stuff in the universe, including stuff

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Speaker 1: people want to make, and explain it to you. Break

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Speaker 1: it down, make sure you can understand the next time

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Speaker 1: you're at a party and wanting to impress your friends

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Speaker 1: with your cool science knowledge. That's right, all the crazy

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Speaker 1: ideas out there in the universe and the cosmos, and

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Speaker 1: all the crazy ideas in people's heads that may or

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Speaker 1: may not be possible. That's right. I'm a particle physic

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Speaker 1: this and I'm cartoonist. And together we wrote a book

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Speaker 1: called We Have No Idea, which explores all the mysteries

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Speaker 1: of the unknown and the things we don't know about

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Speaker 1: the universe. And together, twice a week we try to

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Speaker 1: take you up into space and out into the cosmos.

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Speaker 1: And and today we're going to talk about a very

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Speaker 1: interesting idea that's been out there floating in science and

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Speaker 1: engineering circles and definitely on the internet, which is a

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting and different way to get to space, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is really fascinating because it seems like we're sort

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Speaker 1: of trapped on Earth. You know, gravity keeps us here.

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Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about how gravity deforms space and

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Speaker 1: makes it difficult to get off of Earth. And it's

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Speaker 1: nice that gravity holds you down to Earth, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: you want to get up to space. You know, if

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Speaker 1: if humanity wants to explore the stars and build space

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Speaker 1: technology and space industry and space habitats, then eventually we've

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Speaker 1: got to get off of this planet. And so we've

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Speaker 1: got to somehow counteract that gravity and climb up into space. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And the main way we've been doing that so far

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Speaker 1: is by trapping ourselves into a giant too full of

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Speaker 1: flammable gasoline or or hydracine or rocket feel and then

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Speaker 1: lighting that up and hoping that the explosion kind of

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Speaker 1: takes us up into space. It's basically the high tech

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Speaker 1: equivalent of taping a bunch of fireworks to your nie,

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Speaker 1: to your legs and setting them off, right, which we

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Speaker 1: advise our listeners not to do, or sure writing writing

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Speaker 1: the shock wave from a bomb on your surface or something, right,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a bad idea. Yeah, it's carefully channeled explosions.

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Speaker 1: But there might be a different way to get to space.

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Speaker 1: And this is a pretty interesting idea because I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's the kind of idea a six year old

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Speaker 1: would come up with, Like, if you have six year old, Hey,

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Speaker 1: how do you get to space? This is what they

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Speaker 1: might come up with. Oh my god. I totally should

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Speaker 1: have done that. I should have gone to a kindergarten

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Speaker 1: classroom and said what's the best way to get the space.

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Speaker 1: I would have gotten some awesome ideas like the moon

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Speaker 1: and climb up the rope or something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably you get a lot of just use the spaceship

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Speaker 1: the jump really hard. Now, today's topic on the podcast

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Speaker 1: is space elevators. Are they possible? How do they work?

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Speaker 1: How would they work? Should you ride in one? What

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Speaker 1: should you pack? What's the protocol for when you're standing

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Speaker 1: in a space elevator? Do you make eye contact? Do

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Speaker 1: you go to the furthest opposite corner of an elevator?

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Speaker 1: Do you say, oh wait, I'll take the next one? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Do you not and do the what's up? Or have

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Speaker 1: a good time? When they leave these say have a

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Speaker 1: good day? What do you? What do you what's the protocol.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but you know, if we do develop

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Speaker 1: space elevators would be a whole impact on culturing. That

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Speaker 1: people will meet and fall in love on space elevators right,

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Speaker 1: become um an element in fiction. You'll see them in

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Speaker 1: movies and comic books. Yeah, it's a pretty fascinating idea

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Speaker 1: and just the concept of elevators. Um, you have a

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Speaker 1: favorite elevator, right, Daniel, I do have a favorite elevator.

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Speaker 1: I love that in Europe when you get into an elevator,

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Speaker 1: the ground floor is listed as zero for some reason

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Speaker 1: that just like tickles the nerd in me. And at

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Speaker 1: the Large Hadron Collider, the experiments are deep, deep underground,

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Speaker 1: rather like a hundred meters underground, so that the radiation

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Speaker 1: produced in the collisions doesn't effect anybody above ground. And

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Speaker 1: so they have this elevator you can take down into

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Speaker 1: the tunnel where the accelerator is and that the collisions happen.

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Speaker 1: And it just has two buttons. One of them says

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Speaker 1: zero for the ground level and the other one says

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Speaker 1: minus one, and so you press you go whooh down

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Speaker 1: a hundred meters, which is you know, really far deep

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Speaker 1: deep into the ground. Um. So that one's really fun.

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Speaker 1: There are two options zero and minus one. Yeah, exactly. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's a much there's a much more dramatic elevator and

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Speaker 1: some other physics experiments like in the snow Lab in Canada.

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Speaker 1: They go, I think miles underground because they have their

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Speaker 1: their experiments underground in a mind like an old abandoned mine.

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Speaker 1: Did I ever tell you I have written the sir

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Speaker 1: and elevator down to the bottom? You have? Really? How

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Speaker 1: did you did you sneak in? Did you pass the

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Speaker 1: retin retinal scanner? Or did you go say I'm a

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Speaker 1: physics ninja. I remember you're not the physics ninja was

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Speaker 1: trying to take credit. Now, how did you get in?

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Speaker 1: Did you know I got I was getting a tour

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Speaker 1: and uh I went down there and it was super exciting,

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Speaker 1: super fun. I didn't get to walk the tunnels, um,

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Speaker 1: but I was. I was kind of disappointed to see

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Speaker 1: that the one comic strip that was up on the

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Speaker 1: walls there was an x k CD comic strip. Did

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Speaker 1: you take it down and replace it with one of yours? No?

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Speaker 1: It was a well earned it was a really funny

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Speaker 1: comic muse. Well, so, yeah, so getting to space is

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Speaker 1: really expensive, right, and so the idea that you might

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Speaker 1: be able to take an elevator sounds pretty appealing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting how why getting the space is so expensive?

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Speaker 1: You might think, like, what's the big deal? You just

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Speaker 1: build a rocket and you shoot it up there? Right,

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Speaker 1: how expensive could rocket fuel be? Ye? Right? But the

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Speaker 1: problem is that you need a huge amount of fuel

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Speaker 1: to get to space, and you can't refuel a rocket

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Speaker 1: along the way, right. You have to lift all the

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Speaker 1: fuel you're gonna need, um from the beginning. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw this presentation by an austronaut ones who said

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Speaker 1: that basically ninety five of your rocket, like by weight,

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Speaker 1: like the weight of your rocket is basically fuel. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if you were going to drive across the country,

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Speaker 1: but there were no gas stations between here and there,

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Speaker 1: and so you need to like pack all the fuel. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you have a huge tanker and you fill it

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Speaker 1: with fuel. So now you need extra fuel to bring

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Speaker 1: that fuel, right, and so pretty soon you're carrying like

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Speaker 1: a train of tankers with you. And so you're right,

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Speaker 1: most of the fuels they're just to lift the other fuel. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of your your fuel just goes to

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Speaker 1: lifting the fuel that you need to lift the other

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Speaker 1: fuel to maybe a little bit use some of that

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Speaker 1: to lift you up. Yeah, exactly, it's diminishing returns. Every

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Speaker 1: pound of fuel you add, a very very small amount

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Speaker 1: of it actually lifts you up. And so that's why

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Speaker 1: rockets are pretty inefficient and super expensive. Yeah. So you

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Speaker 1: mean when you see a rocket, just imagine ninety of

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Speaker 1: that long tube is basically like an explosive, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not basically an explosive. It is an explosive. I

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Speaker 1: mean you explode your way to space, right, like this

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Speaker 1: is this is the plan, right, it is riding explosion

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Speaker 1: to space. And so that's pretty expensive, right. I was

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Speaker 1: looking it up. It turns out that if you want

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Speaker 1: to send one kilogram that's like to something pounds of

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Speaker 1: stuff into space, it costs like twenty thousand dollars. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter what it is. Gold, mashed potatoes, hamsters, one

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Speaker 1: ram or whatever cost about twenty thousand dollars to send

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Speaker 1: a space So it's like ten thousand dollars a pound. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's some premo caveat you know, um, and say you

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Speaker 1: want to build something, right, you want to build um

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Speaker 1: factory in space that can make spaceships, or that can

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Speaker 1: make habitats or domes or space suits or whatever. Right,

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Speaker 1: you have to send every piece of that stuff from

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Speaker 1: Earth because we don't have any manufacturing space yet, right,

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Speaker 1: and so you have to lift it all. It would

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Speaker 1: cost so much money, um to make stuff on Earth

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Speaker 1: and then lift it up into space. Yeah. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: would like all those space stations you see and science

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Speaker 1: ficing movies. You've got to wonder how did they get

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Speaker 1: all that metal and stuff up there? Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: exactly why I think with the future is to build

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Speaker 1: a space based industry, right, build that stuff in space, right,

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Speaker 1: building a factory in space to manufacture stuff so you

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Speaker 1: don't have to lift it from the Earth. But then

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Speaker 1: first you have to build that first factory, right, you

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Speaker 1: have to get it started somehow. Well, you have to

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Speaker 1: get up the raw materials too, right, Well, there's plenty

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Speaker 1: of raw materials and asteroids. Right, There's lots of good

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Speaker 1: metals and stuff in asteroids, so you can If you

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Speaker 1: can build an asteroid mining factory in space, then you're

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Speaker 1: you're set to go. But the first one you have

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Speaker 1: to build on Earth and lift it right, Well, so

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Speaker 1: rockets seem pretty a little bit inefficient and kind of dangerous,

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Speaker 1: and so there's this this other idea to get things

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Speaker 1: up into space called the space elevator. Yeah, exactly. And

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna dig into how a space elevator works

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Speaker 1: and what should you take one, and is it possible

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Speaker 1: and is it feasible? But before we do, we thought

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Speaker 1: we would ask folks around the U C Irvine campus

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Speaker 1: if they had heard of a space elevator, if they

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Speaker 1: thought it was reasonable, or if they thought it was

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Speaker 1: just some crazy idea of fuzzy hair physicist was asking

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Speaker 1: them about. So before you listen to these answers, think

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Speaker 1: about it for a second. How much do you know

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Speaker 1: about space elevators? Here's what people had to say. No,

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Speaker 1: what would be your best guest or what a space

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Speaker 1: elevator would be? Um? The one to Charlie and the

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Speaker 1: chocolate factory? Perfect? M. No, what is your best guess?

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Speaker 1: If you're a space elevator, can I get? What? Can

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Speaker 1: I get? A hint elevator to space elevator to space?

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Speaker 1: And no? Would? I don't think it's that all right,

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Speaker 1: thanks very much? Any any best guess what that might be?

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Speaker 1: An idea. Yes, do you think it's possible feasible? It

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Speaker 1: seems possible. I don't know about feasible. Um, when do

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Speaker 1: you think we might see one in action? I think

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Speaker 1: that as I understand it, the limitations have to do

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Speaker 1: with materials constraints right now and the strength of the materials.

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Speaker 1: So last I heard they were working on like carbon

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Speaker 1: fiber that could support its own weight up to the

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Speaker 1: low Earth orbit. But I don't know how that's going.

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Speaker 1: Is it like a thing used for like the spaceships

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Speaker 1: to like launch you that I guess putting a similar

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Speaker 1: to that an elevator in space, elevator in space or

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Speaker 1: elevator to space two space? Sure? Space? You'd like to

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Speaker 1: have a space elevator? No, I think I might die

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Speaker 1: in it on a space station or something like. It

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Speaker 1: takes you to the like from the bridge to engineering

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Speaker 1: or something something like that. All right, maybe something that

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Speaker 1: launches you into space. All right? So it sounds like

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Speaker 1: a lot of people ever heard what space elevator is.

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Speaker 1: Someone said that it was like the one Charlene the

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Speaker 1: chocolate factory. That was a great answer. I love that. Um.

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Speaker 1: I love seeing people think on their feet. They're like

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard that. What could it be? They're like,

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Speaker 1: I've heard these words before. Space and elevator. Is it

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Speaker 1: an elevator that uses space, takes you to space, or

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Speaker 1: an elevator in space? Right? That was one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite ideas. It's sort of like a star trek when

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Speaker 1: you go from like the bridge engineering that uses an elevator. Right,

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Speaker 1: So very few people thought from first principles that it

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Speaker 1: might be an elevator to space. One of the guys

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Speaker 1: we interviewed happens to be a professor of Earth system science,

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Speaker 1: and so he was very knowledgeable about the topic. As

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Speaker 1: you can hear. Oh, I see, he was a ringer.

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Speaker 1: He was definitely a ringer. Yeah, he really elevated the

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Speaker 1: topic here. That's right, that's right before we dive in,

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Speaker 1: let's take a short break. Right, Le's jumped into a Daniel.

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Speaker 1: So what is a space elevator? The idea of a

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Speaker 1: space elevator is to avoid having to do the rocket lift, right,

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Speaker 1: and instead of having to push yourself up out of

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Speaker 1: Earth gravity. And every time you're pushing yourself out of

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Speaker 1: Earth gravity, you're doing two things. First, you're keeping yourself

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Speaker 1: up and second you're lifting yourself up. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: say you're like, you know, five feet above the earth

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Speaker 1: and you just want to hover. You don't want to

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Speaker 1: go anywhere any higher even that just that takes energy, right,

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Speaker 1: you have to continually push yourself up. Yeah, so imaginative. Instead,

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Speaker 1: you could just climb a ladder. Right, there's like a

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Speaker 1: ladder to space. Then when you wanted to take a break,

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Speaker 1: you could stop right and you could rest and the

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Speaker 1: ladder would support you. The ladder would provide that essentially

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Speaker 1: the counterbalancing force against gravity to keep you up while

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Speaker 1: you rested, and then did the rest of your climb. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you can literally just hang out exactly, hang out

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Speaker 1: in space. Yeah. So if you can build a ladder

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Speaker 1: to space, then that would save you a lot to

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Speaker 1: that energy. Right. The other idea is avoid carrying all

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Speaker 1: your energy with you, right the rocket. As we were

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Speaker 1: saying earlier, the big problem with the rocket is you

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Speaker 1: have to carry the fuel and then the fuel to

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Speaker 1: care the fuel, and the fuel to care the fuel

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Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Um. And so if you could somehow,

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Speaker 1: you know, get the energy from the ground as you

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Speaker 1: were climbing, you know, like people like throwing you, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, candy bars as you're climbing of the ladder.

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Speaker 1: Then you wouldn't have to carry all those candy bars

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Speaker 1: with So the idea of a space elevator is build

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Speaker 1: something you can climb and send the energy up to

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Speaker 1: the car that climbs. The climbs the elevator while it's

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Speaker 1: on the way, so it doesn't even have to carry

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Speaker 1: it all like the like a real elevator in a building,

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Speaker 1: like you get the power form it um. You don't

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Speaker 1: carry all the gasoline to power the elevator. It just

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Speaker 1: comes to you through the cables attached to the elevator, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. This would be a slightly different structure because

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Speaker 1: an elevator and a building is usually like attached to

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Speaker 1: the cable and then there's an engine at the top

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Speaker 1: that pulled on the cable or something. So the basic

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Speaker 1: idea here is you have a huge cable, you attach

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Speaker 1: it to the ground on Earth, and then you lift

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Speaker 1: the other end all the way up into space and

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Speaker 1: attach it to something in space. So the idea I

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Speaker 1: said earlier a six year old like lassoing the moon.

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Speaker 1: That's basically the idea is like tie a string between

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Speaker 1: the Earth and something in space. Wow, Okay, So I

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Speaker 1: think the basic basic idea is to build something permanent,

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Speaker 1: you know, not a rockety used once and then throw

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Speaker 1: it away, but like build a structure, something like a

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Speaker 1: link between Earth and space, and then just climb that

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Speaker 1: every time you want to go into space exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so then it's reusable and you don't have to

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Speaker 1: carry all the fuel with you. We'll talk in detail

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Speaker 1: about how you can accomplish that, um and and you

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Speaker 1: can take breaks, right, you don't have to provide the

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Speaker 1: hovering lift as well as the climbing lift. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of possible advantages if you can build that

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Speaker 1: kind of structure. You can just hang on, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: you can just hang on. You can like clamp on

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Speaker 1: of the rope or whatever, UM to prevent yourself from falling.

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Speaker 1: A rocket can't do that, right, has nothing to hang onto.

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Speaker 1: It's just as the air around it to push against. Um.

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Speaker 1: And when I first heard about the concept of a

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Speaker 1: space elevator, I thought, like, how is the rope going

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Speaker 1: to stay up? Right? I mean, if you just if

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Speaker 1: you take a long rope and just like throw the

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Speaker 1: end into the sky, it falls down, right, There's no wait,

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Speaker 1: like stays up in the sky. How does that even work? Right? Well,

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Speaker 1: you're assuming that it looks like a rope, right, Like

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Speaker 1: a like this elevator could take different forms, Like it

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Speaker 1: could be just one rope that goes off into infinity

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Speaker 1: like Jack and the bean stock, or it could be

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Speaker 1: what if you just build a really really tall tower,

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Speaker 1: like if you just you know, the berke Khalifa and

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Speaker 1: and um Dubai. What if you just keep building that

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Speaker 1: up up up into space. What would happen then, Well,

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the tower, wh we get crushed? Right?

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Speaker 1: The problem with building something up from the ground and

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Speaker 1: not having it be pulled from outer space. So that's

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Speaker 1: the key about the space elevators, that you build it

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Speaker 1: so so long and so high lions and the rope

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Speaker 1: goes so far that it's basically getting pulled from space.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that in a moment. But the problem

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Speaker 1: with building a tower, it's basically like a compression structure.

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Speaker 1: Every layer sits on top of the previous layer, and

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Speaker 1: then the next layer sits on top of that, and

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Speaker 1: by the time you get to you know, really really tall,

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Speaker 1: the bottom layer is supporting the entire structure. Right, And um,

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Speaker 1: that has to be super strong or super wide or

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Speaker 1: made out of crazy materials to go anywhere close to

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Speaker 1: the distance of space. So you have to have this

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Speaker 1: thing be really light so we can get height without

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Speaker 1: having a lot of weight. But technically it's possible, is it.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible to just build a giant pyramid that's

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Speaker 1: really really tall? Is it possible? I mean, the Mount

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Speaker 1: Everest is a giant pyramid that's pretty pretty tall, But

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we could build it, you know,

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Speaker 1: like it's, uh, these things have to go get pretty

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Speaker 1: wide in order to support all that weight. Um. Eventually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe you could build the tower and babble into space.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's as as difficult as space elevators are.

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Speaker 1: A space tower be even more difficult. I see, all right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the space elevator has the advantage that the top of it,

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Speaker 1: the rope, is so far out into space that it um,

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Speaker 1: it pulls on the rope. Okay, yeah, I just think

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Speaker 1: maybe we're jumping ahead, right because maybe some people think

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Speaker 1: it's an elevator, so it just it means that there's

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Speaker 1: an elevator shaft that takes you all the way up.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that the primary way that this might work

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Speaker 1: is using a cable. Yes, yeah, exactly. It has to

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Speaker 1: be a cable. You can't just build a building that

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Speaker 1: goes all the way up into space. That has to

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Speaker 1: have something at the top of it that's so far

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Speaker 1: into space that it's basically escaped the Earth's gravity and

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Speaker 1: it's pulling, pulling whatever it is up and so that's

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Speaker 1: that's is that the prevailing idea that this this way

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Speaker 1: it could work. Maybe, like the idea is that it

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Speaker 1: it's it's not an elevator shaft or a tower. It's

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Speaker 1: a it's like a string. Basically, you attach a string

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Speaker 1: to Earth and you swing around something really heavy out

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Speaker 1: into space that keeps the that rope that's string intention

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Speaker 1: yeah exactly, and then maybe you can use that thing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you can climb tim that rope in tension that

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Speaker 1: rope up into space. Yeah exactly. You attach a string

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Speaker 1: from the ground to something up in space, and that

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Speaker 1: thing up in space is pulling on the string, right,

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Speaker 1: it's keeping it up um and then yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: you just climb up that rope. And so it's more

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Speaker 1: like a space ladder than a space elevator. If if

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Speaker 1: you want to think about it that way, Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: a space space cable, like a space fire pole. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but then you would ride an elevator like you would

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Speaker 1: be you would wait, you wouldn't climb it by hand.

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Speaker 1: You would be inside of an elevator like structure that

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Speaker 1: then climbs up the rope or the pole. Yeah, you'd

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Speaker 1: have to be crazy strong to climb in by hand. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The basic components are you have stationed on the ground,

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Speaker 1: the cable that goes up, some counterweight up in space

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Speaker 1: to keep it up, and then you have something that

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Speaker 1: climbs it, some like car or some device that basically

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Speaker 1: crawls up the rope, the thing that climbs the ladder

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Speaker 1: for you, and that slips its way up the rope.

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Speaker 1: So those are the basic components. Yeah, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine how that rope stays up, Like what keeps that

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Speaker 1: rope vertical? Yeah, exactly. That's the thing that puzzled me

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Speaker 1: for a long time when I was thinking about the

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Speaker 1: space elevator, because it's just counter to your intuition, right,

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Speaker 1: you think the things that go up in the sky

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Speaker 1: come down, right, But the truth is, if you throw

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Speaker 1: things high enough up into the sky, they don't come down, right,

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Speaker 1: they go into orbit, and so at some point the

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Speaker 1: force of gravity weakens enough and the centrifugal force is

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Speaker 1: strong enough that they stay up there. You know, imagine,

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Speaker 1: for example, you are you have a bucket with a

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Speaker 1: rope and you're swinging it around yourself. Right. Then you know, water,

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Speaker 1: for example, can stay in the bucket even if the

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Speaker 1: bucket goes upside down. Right. Is that it's because of

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Speaker 1: this apparent force, the centrifugal force, and so that's pushing

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Speaker 1: things away if you're spinning, right, the fact that the

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Speaker 1: Earth is spinning provides this sort of outwards apparent centrivigal force.

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Speaker 1: And so it would be like the Earth is rotating

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Speaker 1: around and you tie string to it, and the swinging

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Speaker 1: around of some big weight at the end of the

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Speaker 1: rope is what keeps the rope vertical and intention and

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Speaker 1: then and then you can climb that rope to get

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Speaker 1: to space. Exactly, the center of mass of the whole

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Speaker 1: structure is above the orbit level. Right at some point

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Speaker 1: above the Earth, the force of gravity gets weaker and

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Speaker 1: the centrifugal force actually gets stronger with distance, and so

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Speaker 1: at some point above the Earth they're equal. That's what

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Speaker 1: we call like where a geosynchronous orbit can happen um

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Speaker 1: where it's in balance, it can just stay in orbit.

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Speaker 1: And so the idea is to put something really heavy

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Speaker 1: above that so that the average weight, like where's the

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Speaker 1: average bit of mass of the space elevator is above

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Speaker 1: that orbit level and so it's just like something in orbit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can think of it like something in

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Speaker 1: orbit with that with that dangles down really really low. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I see, it doesn't have to be attached to Earth,

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Speaker 1: is what you're saying. It doesn't have to be attached

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Speaker 1: to Earth, but it's better if it is, right, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to climb someone which is actually angling. But

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Speaker 1: just in the point of view of the physics, like

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Speaker 1: why does it stay up? It's uh, you know, the

429
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: fact that it's attached to Earth is not what keeps

430
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: it up, right, the thing that keeps it up, that's

431
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 1: what he said. It's attached to the part in space. Right.

432
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: That's interesting, Like people in the International Space Station could potentially,

433
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: i mean physically just kind of let out a little

434
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: bit of string down into Earth and at some point

435
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: it might touch the Earth and it would just hang

436
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: there between the station and Earth, right, And your intuition

437
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 1: tells you that should work, right, and that's basically the

438
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: same thing. Yeah, and then you just clip that rope

439
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: tier a garage and you're done. Yeah. But the key

440
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: is that the thing is in geosynchronous orbit, right, so

441
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: it's always above the same part of the Earth. Because

442
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 1: you don't want this robe like dragging across the surface

443
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 1: of the Earth, right, that wouldn't be a lot of fun,

444
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 1: like Bruce Willis movie, exactly exactly. So you want to

445
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: have some like big station on the ground where this

446
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: thing clips in. And so you have this like a

447
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 1: spaceport on the ground and then a place you can

448
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: arrive I have above the Earth. And so that's the

449
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: basic physics of it. Well, this is pretty cool, you said, um,

450
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: you you told me that basically the point at which

451
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: you would reach this geo stationary or orbit is about

452
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: thirty six thousand kilometers out into space. Yeah, exactly. So

453
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: you need to have enough mass above that height so

454
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: that on average, the mass of the whole thing is

455
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: just above thirty six thousand kilometers above the Earth. And

456
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: just for reference, like the Moon is about three eight

457
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: thousand kilometers way, so it's like a tenth of the

458
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: way to the moon, you could have this elevator, yeah exactly.

459
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: So that makes it sound totally plausible. Right, you don't

460
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 1: even need the last of the moon. You just have

461
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: to last of the space station, right exactly. But that's

462
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: a really long rope. Right, Well, let's see how long

463
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: would it take you to get there, liked my kilometers away,

464
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: and let's say that your elevator is going up at

465
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: a two kilometers per hour, it would take you hold

466
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: on how much of that? Well, that's you know, five

467
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: hours to go a thousand kilometers, right, so hours or so,

468
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: So that's a few days. You know, when you get

469
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: in at the bottom, you're gonna look around because you're

470
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: gonna be with those folks for a while, and then

471
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: I hope nobody um passes some wind or exactly. Bring

472
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: pay attention to what everybody's eating just before they get

473
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: on the space elevator. You know, it's a lot like

474
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: a super long airline flight, but days long, right, Wow,

475
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: that'd be amazing. But then at the end of the

476
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: two days, at the end of the what is it,

477
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: ten days, you'd be in space. Yeah exactly, you'd be

478
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: in space. And even that number, like two per hour.

479
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: That's pretty fast. That's pretty fast for an elevator, right,

480
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: So I don't know how plausible or how comfortable that

481
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: would be. Um, it seems to be pretty sippy for

482
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: an elevator. But if you get those speeds up, then

483
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: you can get the time down. Um. And you know,

484
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: ten days is a long time for a passenger. But

485
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: I think in the beginning, the more important thing is

486
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: lifting up cargo. Right. If you're gonna build industry in

487
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: space so you can build spaceships and how the tats

488
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, then you're gonna you're

489
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: gonna lift stuff up into space. Okay, so that's the concept.

490
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: As you do, you put a cable between the Earth,

491
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: you can tie it down here, and you tie the

492
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: other end to something heavy and swinging around the Earth

493
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: in orbit geosynchronous orbit, and then you just pulled yourself

494
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: up to cable to get to space. Sounds simple, just

495
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: put yourself Yeah, let's do it. Well, I'm gonna I'm

496
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: gonna take care of this. I can imagine you selling

497
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: tickets at the bottom. You're like, it's a thousand dollars

498
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: and just you know, pull yourself on up. Yeah. Well,

499
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: let's get into why it's possible or maybe impossible. But

500
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break. All right, So that's

501
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: a space elevator. It's a giant rope tied to Earth

502
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: and tied to on the other end to something floating

503
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: out into space. And the idea is that we just

504
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: get on an elevator elevator that climbs that rope. So

505
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: so where's the what's the difficult part here? Why can't

506
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: we just build one? Oh? I'm building one right now,

507
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: should be done next week. You want to come down China.

508
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: It's made out of paper clips. I can see it

509
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: from here. Oh my gosh. Um, there's a lot of

510
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: hard parts in this. First of all, you're talking about

511
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: attaching a rope to something heavy out in space. What right,

512
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: Like do you corral and asteroid? Do you collect a

513
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: bunch of space junk and build a garbage mountain in space?

514
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: Like you need something big and heavy that you can

515
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: understand and snap a cable too? And wait, wait, why

516
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: does it need to be? Like? How heavy does it

517
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,479
Speaker 1: need to be? Like does need to be uh, you know,

518
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: like a the size of the moon or the size

519
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: of a bus or or what it needs to be

520
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: definitely thousands and thousands of kilos. Exact size depends on

521
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: the distance. So the longer your rope, the further away

522
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: this rock can be, and the lighter it can be.

523
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: Right because this centrifugal force grows with radius, and so

524
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be as heavy if as longer,

525
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 1: but then you have to build a longer rope. If

526
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: you want a shorter rope, then you need a larger

527
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: mass um and so it's a bit of a balancing act.

528
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: We just collect all those junk satellites and make a

529
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: giant satellite ball and that's it. Yeah, yeah, Or maybe

530
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: we could just like gather all the plastic from the

531
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: ocean and use that, right, a huge um you know,

532
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: plastic straw ball in space would be pretty cool. So

533
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: that's problem number one. Yeah, that is the thing that's

534
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: out there holding the elevator up. Yeah, but the bigger

535
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: problem is connecting it right, Like, say you have a

536
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: big asteroid in space. You're all set to bigger builter

537
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 1: space elevator. How do you make such a rope? You know,

538
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: this thing has to be like thousands of kilometers long,

539
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: it has to be super strong, it has to never

540
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: ever ever break right, And most importantly, it has to

541
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: be strong enough to hold itself up. What do you

542
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: mean strong enough to hold itself up? Didn't we say

543
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: that the rope is pretty much kind of floating out

544
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: into space. Yeah, well you can imagine this sort of

545
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: two halves of it. Right, there's some average point where

546
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: half the mass of the space elevators above it and

547
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: half the masses below it. Everything above that point is

548
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: getting pulled out into space. Cool everything below that point

549
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: is getting pulled down towards the Earth. It still has weight, right,

550
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: So even if the whole thing is being held up,

551
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: then the those elements of the rope that are right

552
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: there at that halfway point, they have to be strong

553
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: enough to hold all that weight below them, even if

554
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: there's a force on the other end pulling on the

555
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: rope to provide it to keep it up. The rope

556
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: has to be strong enough, right. But why does it

557
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: need to be intention, I guess is my question, Because

558
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: couldn't you just have something in geosynchronous orbit, Like something's

559
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: in orbit, it's not there's nothing holding it, right, So

560
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: couldn't you just have a slack line. Well, I think

561
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: a slack line would make for a pretty wild ride,

562
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: you know, are not a completely taught or like a

563
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: barely taught. It's not about the tension, right, It's just

564
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: about having having a really really long cable that's suspended

565
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: by itself. Right. Even if you lower say you lowered

566
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: that cable from the space station, right and you didn't

567
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: even tie it to Earth, the part where it attaches

568
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: to the space vision is going to be pulled down

569
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: by the entire weight of the cable. Right. The cable

570
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: itself just has to be strong enough to hold that weight.

571
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: It's not about the strength of the pulling force. Like

572
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: let's say Superman wants to pull on the Moon. Okay,

573
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: so yeah, maybe he's strong enough. He ties a rope

574
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: around the Moon, and he's strong enough to pull hard

575
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: enough on the rope to move the to move the Moon.

576
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: But is the rope strong enough. Probably not, Probably the

577
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: rope would snap, right. So this is about making a

578
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: rope that's strong enough to hold all that weight, hold

579
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: all that that force that's keeping it in space. Oh

580
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: I see, So that there doesn't need to be tension

581
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: between the space object and the Earth. But the rope

582
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: it self weighs a certain amount exactly, so it's um

583
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: it's being pulled down by itself basically, Yeah, exactly, it's

584
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: gonna be strong enough to hold itself up, So you

585
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: need something which is really strong. He also wanted to

586
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: be very light so that it doesn't have to be

587
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: that strong. So it's this constant balance and people and

588
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: materials are doing this kind of research all the time

589
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: trying to make really strong, really light materials, not just

590
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: for space elevators, you know, for like bulletproof vests and

591
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: for buildings and for airplanes, and like, being both strong

592
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: and light is like one of the hardest things in materials, right,

593
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: you know that you're an engineer. Yeah, I thought we

594
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: was gonna say. I thought you were going to say

595
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: that I am strong and light, which is totally true.

596
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: Thank you, Daniel. You're brilliant like light, and you're also

597
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: very strong willed. So there you go of a strong

598
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: personalities what you're saying exactly, And so it's difficult to

599
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: find materials that are strong enough to fit the bill.

600
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: I mean, this thing is crazy long, right, It's like,

601
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean, thirty six thousand kilometers is uh is It's

602
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: just a huge number, right, And so we've never met

603
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: anything that long. We don't have materials that can hold

604
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: themselves up when they're that long. That that would be

605
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: like a rope that goes around the earth basically, right,

606
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: like you you start a rope here and you keep

607
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: going until you come from back on the other end,

608
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: from the other side. That would be how long the

609
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: rope would need to be, right exactly. It's it's crazy.

610
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: It's hard to even really imagine building something that big,

611
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: literally planet sized. Wow. Okay, so um, and so what

612
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: are the alternatives like titanium, What if you use titanium

613
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: or at a mantium at amantium, you know, if you

614
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: use marvel comixium, you know then and you can do anything.

615
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: You know, the strongest metals we have, if you made

616
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: a thin rope of them, they can hold themselves up

617
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: if you make it like you know, twenty or even

618
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: thirty kilometers long. But eventually, um, eventually they just fall apart.

619
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: Right the weight at the bottom will be stronger than

620
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: the than the internal strength of the material. It'll tear

621
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: itself apart. And you can try lighter stuff like kevlar,

622
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: carbon fiber. These are fancy materials people developed. They are

623
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: pretty light, and those can maybe make like, you know,

624
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: a hundred kilometers, a few hundred kilometers, but remember we're

625
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: looking for something that's like tens of thousands of kilometers.

626
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: And so recently people have in research and they've come

627
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: up with even crazier materials, Like have you ever heard

628
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: of carbon nanotubes? I have? Yeah? Is that like um? YouTube?

629
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: Is that like um? Like bread? Is that the Yeah,

630
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: it's the the super premium version of YouTube. Exactly. The

631
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: carbon nanotubes are this really cool development. It's a totally

632
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: different way to arrange carbon. Carbon is an amazing element.

633
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: You know, it's the backbone of organic chemistry, right, every

634
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: molecule in your body has carbon as its backbone. It's

635
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: incredibly flexible. Also, it doesn't have a lot of protons

636
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: in it because it's early in the periodic table, so

637
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: you can make structures in it that don't have a

638
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: lot of like dead weight. Like a lot of the

639
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: materials we use, the protons and the neutrons, which provide

640
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: most of the weight of the stuff, don't really contribute

641
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: much to the strength of the object. But a carbon

642
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: nanotube is like pure chemical bonds, right, yeah, exactly. Most

643
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: of the strength comes from the chemical bonds, which really

644
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: just come from the electrons, which are pretty light. So

645
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: you want to find a material real which has a

646
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: small number of protons and neutrons like carbon and can

647
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: arrange itself in clever ways. And so people have figured

648
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: out ways to make like these spherical shells of carbon.

649
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: Those are called buckeye balls, or these tubes of carbon.

650
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: It's really pretty incredible, and of course folks out there

651
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: might know, like carbon can make graphline, it can make diamond, right.

652
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: It's really it's like a you know, an engineer's dream

653
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: when it comes to a basic building material. So this

654
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 1: is almost kind of like a cable made out of diamonds, right,

655
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: almost like it's it's a very specific carbon arrangement. Yeah,

656
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: it's exactly. It's a very specific arrangement of carbon, and

657
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: people have and they're incredibly strong, right, They're stronger than

658
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: anything anybody has ever made. And the current calculations tell

659
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: us that, like you could probably make a carbon nanotube

660
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: that goes five maybe ten thousand kilometers and you could

661
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: hold itself up um, which is pretty good. Right, that's

662
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: getting in the range of what you need is still

663
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: a little low um. But the problem is that we're

664
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: not really that good making carbon in the tubes yet,

665
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: Like the longest one we've ever made is like centimeters

666
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: in length. Oh, so we're almost there. Well, I've heard

667
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: this idea of using carbon nanotubes, which I know they

668
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: are like single atom, single molecules strands, and I was thought,

669
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: what You're gonna pull a whole elevator on a single

670
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: strand of molecules. But I think the idea is not

671
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: that there's a single strand up to space, but like

672
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: a like a bundle of these fibers, right, yeah, I

673
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: think you can weave them together to get additional strength

674
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: and also redundancy. Right. Another problem with carbon nanotubes is

675
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: that they're not very robust too. For example, lightning strikes, right,

676
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: you strike it with lightning and basically evaporates. So that

677
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: means that means you need to like always predict the

678
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: weather exactly correctly or you're susceptible to these lightning strikes

679
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: to you know, evaporate your your cable. That would be

680
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: a long ride down if your space celebrator gets fried

681
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: by lightning strike. I think it's faster on the way

682
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: down there on the way up. If you if the

683
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,959
Speaker 1: cable snaps. Um. Yes, there's a lot of challenges there.

684
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: We don't even have do We don't have the technology right.

685
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: Carbon nanotubes aren't yet good enough, and we don't even

686
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: know how to make carbon nano tubes that are long enough.

687
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: But I mean physically carbon tubes could be could work

688
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: or did they just even those are not physically able

689
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: to get to thirty six kilometers. I think there's a

690
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: lot of uncertainty still because a lot of ways you

691
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: can make them, and so people think about weaving them

692
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: together and to get them extra strong. So I think

693
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: it's possible. Right nobody knows exactly how to do it,

694
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: but I certainly wouldn't say it's ruled out. Um, it's

695
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: definitely in the category of things that the people imagine.

696
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: You just have to find a right solution, like the

697
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: right engineering material solution. And one of the problems is

698
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: that often you're surfing on the backs of other industries.

699
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: Like there if there are other reasons why people are

700
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: trying to push to make long carbon antitubes, then cool

701
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: Space Elevator can wait until some other industry figures out

702
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: the problem and then they can just order a big tube. Right.

703
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: Problem is nobody else really needs carbon nantitubes thousands of

704
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: miles long. Right, We need them for electroc electrical conductivity,

705
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: and all sorts of other applications that are you know,

706
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: millimeters or centimeters or spider Man. Spider Man needs them.

707
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: He makes them himself though, and he's not shared the patent,

708
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: so we're screwed from that point of view. Um, So

709
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: you need a dedicated effort to develop these things to

710
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: be long enough for space elevators. And that's expensive, right,

711
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: That's a huge investment, And so you're saying it's like

712
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: a nascent industry like, um, there's a lot of applications

713
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: of them, um in in solid state physics, you know,

714
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: and and in biophysics and using them for all sorts

715
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: of stuff, But most of those applications they can be

716
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: pretty short, right, he used They use them for connectivity,

717
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: for circuits, for like filtering stuff, for picking stuff out

718
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: of other kinds of Google. But nobody really else, nobody

719
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: else other than space elevators needs them to be this long.

720
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: So you need somebody to develop it. But you know

721
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: there are people out there who are working on it,

722
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: people who think this would be awesome, or people who

723
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: correctly think it would be huge economic windfall the first

724
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: person to build a space elevator, you know, and instead

725
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: of charging dollars per kilo, could charge like their very

726
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: reasonable price of five hundred dollars per kilo. We'll get

727
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: a lot of business. Wow. But you're saying, um, this

728
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: might be achievable with a few if we just invest

729
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: enough money in it into it. Yeah, it might be right.

730
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: Somebody needs to develop the technology to build these long

731
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: cables and to make them robust um. And you know,

732
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: people estimate how much this might cost. It's really just

733
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: speculation because nobody really knows. It's research. Right. You could

734
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: have a moment of inspiration and figure something out tomorrow,

735
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: or you could sink billions of dollars in and get nowhere.

736
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: But it's definitely in the billions or tens of billions

737
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: of dollars category in terms of research projects. Just people saying, hey,

738
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: if you can give me twenty billion dollars, I'll get

739
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: you into space. Yeah. I wouldn't believe a firm price tag,

740
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: but that's probably the right order of magnitude is you know,

741
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 1: ten or twenty billion to develop and to build this thing.

742
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: And you know, some people are talking about like trying

743
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: it first on the Moon, because on the Moon to

744
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: be much easier because the gravity is much lighter on

745
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: the Moon. So the space elevator wouldn't need to be

746
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: as high, wouldn't need to be as long, it's not

747
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: as risky. You mean, like a space elevator from the

748
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: Moon out into space to take off from the Moon, Yes, exactly,

749
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: out into orbit around the Moon basically just as a

750
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: sort of a warm up project. Because also, imagine you

751
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: build a space elevator and it's working fine and then

752
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: it breaks, right, that could be a big disaster. Like

753
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 1: what if it breaks um where the cable snaps um

754
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: at the top end? Right, Then this huge cable falls

755
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: from the sky right, and it's as you said, it's

756
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: as long as the circumference of the Earth. So like,

757
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: where is this thing in a fall? It's gonna slice

758
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: people in half? Like it seems crazy, it would keep

759
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: falling for a long time. Yeah. Or if it snaps

760
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: at the bottom right, and then you're dragging this like

761
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: very sharp, hot, fast moving cable across the surface of

762
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: the Earth, right, Wow, none of these pictures sound very rosy, no, exactly.

763
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: And so if you're considering investing in the Space Elevator company.

764
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: Think about the lead of liabilities right well, which is

765
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: why I think we should just make it out of

766
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: um spider webbing, which is um the spider Man answer

767
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: your phone calls? These days? How do you tell how

768
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: much is a Marble movie? Abo million dollars done? You know?

769
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: One of my favorite science fiction stories is about a

770
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: physicist who has an idea for some awesome technology and

771
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: he can't get any funding agencies to fund it for him,

772
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: so instead he pitches it to Hollywood as a movie

773
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: and then make a movie, and he uses Hollywood's huge

774
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: budget to build the quote unquote prop of his device

775
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: and it actually works, and so he uses Hollywood as

776
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: a as a way to fund his research. Should you

777
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: should pitch it as a movie? A movie about a

778
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: guy who talks on the podcast about a story about

779
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: a physicist. It sounds like an awesome pitch so far.

780
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 1: I can just imagine you're going to like a movie

781
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: studio head of meaning, Kay, sir, can I give you

782
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: my quick elevator pitch? That's right, we have we're taking

783
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: the space elevator, so I have ten days to give

784
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: you my pitch for this movie. Okay, great, So so

785
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: that's the that's the the space elevator. It's it's um.

786
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: It would sort of liberate us from this need for

787
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: rocket fuels and rockets and which are explosive and expensive.

788
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: That's right. And we didn't even get to touch on it,

789
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: but very briefly, like you could avoid having to carry

790
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: all the energy for the space elevator by like using

791
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: laser beams. You could like shoot laser beams from the

792
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: ground to send energy out there, or to use carbon nanotubes.

793
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: You could they could be electrified, so they could like

794
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: send the electricity along the wire like a like an

795
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: electric bus or something. Stop stop right there and just

796
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: call it a laser space elevator. I mean that just

797
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: sells laservator, laser space evator. How are you gonna get

798
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: to space? I'm gonna laservate mis way to space? Cool?

799
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: Good luck with that. Where a helmet? Um? Yeah, But

800
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: I think this stuff is important. I think it's interesting.

801
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: I think if we're going to build a space industry,

802
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: if we're gonna develop humanity into space and and you know,

803
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: populate space and and all that kind of stuff, we

804
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: gotta get started. We gotta get over this hump where

805
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: it costs so much money to get something into space

806
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: and it's so risk and it takes months of planning. Right,

807
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: it has to be more routine, has to be cheaper. Yeah, yeah,

808
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: avengers get on it. So or half to listen to

809
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: all of that. If somebody builds the space elevator, would

810
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: you pay to take a ride up into space? Let's

811
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: do the calculation. Save costs two hundred dollars per kilo?

812
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: Right then? How much? How much would your ride on

813
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: the space elevator cost? How much would it for me? Really?

814
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: Like that sounds like ten bucks or something? All right,

815
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 1: So would you spend ten thousand bucks to get into space? Totally? Yeah?

816
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you? I mean if it was viny was safe. Yeah, well,

817
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: I'll take your deposit right now. What was your credit

818
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: card number? No, I probably would. I think getting to

819
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: be up in space would be would be exhilarating. Um

820
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: of course, have the price drops that low, then you

821
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: know a lot of people will do it. Maybe won't

822
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: feel as exciting anymore. I think it would also depend

823
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: on who's going on an elevator with me. When you're

824
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: on a transatlantic flight, do you like stare out the

825
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: window agog at the technology anymore. No, you're probably just

826
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: like watching movies. You lower the window, you ignore what's

827
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: going on outside. Right, People adapt pretty quickly to this

828
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, like a real elevator. Right, Like if

829
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: you showed a real elevator to someone ten years ago,

830
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: to be like what, you can go up? You can

831
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: go up a thousand feet up intil into the air,

832
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: just by getting onto this box. Yeah, in these days,

833
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: people just like impatiently mashing the buttons, cursing the thing

834
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: for being so slow. Right, humans never satisfy. Somebody told

835
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: me that New York is the only place where the

836
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: closed door button actually works. What are you saying the

837
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: closed door button doesn't usually work. I think that he's

838
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: there for a psychological Oh my god, that blows my mind.

839
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: Are you serious? Yeah? You have you ever been in

840
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: one where that actually works? I don't know. I guess

841
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,439
Speaker 1: I had the impression that frantically mashing that button did something. Yeah. No,

842
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna apply that. I'm gonna apply that technique to

843
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 1: other places, you know, like, Um, I'm having a knob

844
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: a button outside my office door that says complain to professor,

845
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: and people come over and just mash the button and

846
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: feel satisfied. Ring ring doorbell for physics answers, And it

847
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: doesn't do anything, And it doesn't do it just pulls

848
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: up a copy of our book. We have no idea.

849
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: So there you go. There you go. Well, I hope

850
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: the next time you get into an elevator, um you

851
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: maybe imagine yourself getting onto the space elevator and imagine

852
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Speaker 1: and when you get off that you'd be in a

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Speaker 1: whole different world. Or I imagine that maybe one of

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Speaker 1: our listeners has heard about space elevators for the first

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Speaker 1: time it is so inspired that he or she will

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Speaker 1: sink their fortune into investing in space elevators and make

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Speaker 1: it real and actually go to space. So it's John

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Speaker 1: let the carpet said, engage. All right. Thanks for listening, everybody,

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Speaker 1: and if you have questions about what we said, send

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00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: us some feedback at Questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com,

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00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: or send us a suggestion for what topic you'd like

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00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: to hear us talk about. Thanks for listening. If you

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00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: still have a question after listening to all these explanations,

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00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: please drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: You can find us at Facebook Twitter and Instagram at

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00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge That's one word, or email us at

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00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Thanks for listening,

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Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge's in the Universe is

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00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

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00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H