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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to

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Speaker 1: catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and

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Speaker 1: noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find

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Speaker 1: your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio

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Speaker 1: dot com, or stream us live every day on the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 1: Here we go.

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Speaker 3: It's a Thursday. It is our number two. Appreciate you stoping.

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Speaker 3: But I'm going to the live tour Saturday.

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Speaker 1: I maybe out there and grab my clubs, hit some

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Speaker 1: bombs out there, Jamat. I'm excited to watch.

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Speaker 4: Isn't it cool to do sports against like real professional athletes.

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Speaker 1: It's exciting. Bryson de Shamble will be out there. I'm

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Speaker 1: fired up for it. So it's just a fun time

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Speaker 1: of the year. Tomorrow night, Shador Sanders is going to play.

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Speaker 1: I the two ninety mile hour speeding tickets and the

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Speaker 1: pre draft interviews and the legendary you know, draft room.

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Speaker 1: I don't love that stuff. I don't. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he's a terribly serious young man, and I think the

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Speaker 1: position demands that we'll find out tomorrow though, is could

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Speaker 1: he be a great backup, or is he good enough

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Speaker 1: for Cleveland at the end of the year or at

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Speaker 1: the trade deadline to move him for a draft pick.

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Speaker 1: I think. I think Cleveland, who has two first round picks,

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Speaker 1: wants to this year get as many picks as they can.

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Speaker 1: If they can move Kenny Pickett here in the preseason,

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Speaker 1: if they could move Shador Sanders into the season. If

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Speaker 1: you get six round picks, you're just looking for nine, ten, eleven,

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Speaker 1: twelve picks. So if you give up six to move

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Speaker 1: up a couple slots, that's which's that's the game. It's

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Speaker 1: in an exact science. And speaking of inexact the Chicago

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Speaker 1: Bears new coach Caleb Williams, let's bring in Greg co

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Speaker 1: Sell for the first time in our football season in

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Speaker 1: forty six years. NFL film. So you spend your off

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Speaker 1: season watching, like you know, every snap of these quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: the red zone stat that's what you do. So Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that always worries me about a

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Speaker 1: quarterback is if they have a college problem footwork, hero ball. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it becomes a problem very early in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: So they're either uncoachable or they don't have a coach

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Speaker 1: that knows how to fix it. So my concern on

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Speaker 1: Caleb is little hero ball holds it too long. Those

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Speaker 1: were knocks at USC. So when you looked at all

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Speaker 1: in hindsight the snaps, what do you see that absolutely

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Speaker 1: has to be worked on going into year two.

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Speaker 5: Well, there's a lot to unpack with Caleb Williams. I

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Speaker 5: think that if you just watch his tape from a

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Speaker 5: year ago, some concerns are just his ability to sort

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Speaker 5: of have a feel in the pocket. He had a

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Speaker 5: tendency to step up when there was no need to

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Speaker 5: step up. So what that would do is it would

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Speaker 5: bring him closer to the offensive line and the pass rushers,

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Speaker 5: and so he created his own pressure at times. And

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Speaker 5: obviously he's just not a guy that saw it as

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Speaker 5: cleanly as you like, So he held the ball too long.

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Speaker 5: But think about this, Colin. You watch a ton of

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Speaker 5: college football as well. And this is not a test question,

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Speaker 5: but let's throw this out. What do quarterbacks in college

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Speaker 5: never do?

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Speaker 6: Most of them? They do not huddle.

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Speaker 5: So now you're with Ben Johnson, Okay, he's essentially a rookie.

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Speaker 6: Now Caleb Williams.

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Speaker 5: You almost have to forget about what happened last year

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Speaker 5: because Now what he's learning is he's learning very wordy

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Speaker 5: play calls that have a lot of alerts. Sometimes there's

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Speaker 5: two play calls that are built into a particular verbiage,

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Speaker 5: and then there's shifts, there's motions, there's all kinds of

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Speaker 5: things that he has to learn just to get from

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Speaker 5: the huddle to the line of scrimmage with a reasonable

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Speaker 5: amount of time on the play clock, so that when

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Speaker 5: the shifts and the motions happen, he has time to

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Speaker 5: see how the defense responds. This is the operational part

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Speaker 5: of playing quarterback that he's never really done before, not

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Speaker 5: to the level that Ben Johnson demands. So we have

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Speaker 5: to start from there before we even put him on

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Speaker 5: the field playing in a real game. So there's an

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Speaker 5: awful lot to learn for Caleb Williams. So this is

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Speaker 5: almost a rookie season all over again.

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Speaker 6: As a pure.

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Speaker 5: Talent throwing the football, he's phenomenal.

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Speaker 2: But before you.

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Speaker 5: Get to that, there's so much more that he has

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Speaker 5: to learn, and I hope people understand that that's going

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Speaker 5: to take time.

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Speaker 1: So Kevin O'Connell, JJ McCarthy, Kevin runs advanced schemes. This

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Speaker 1: is like McVeigh, you have Stafford. Matt Stafford is a

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Speaker 1: sharp guy, and that's one of the reasons that McVeigh

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Speaker 1: was so attracted to him in Detroit. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: seen the study habits of Stafford. They're kind of legendary. Well,

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Speaker 1: do you think the advanced schemes, because I like Minnesota's

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Speaker 1: offensive personnel, do you think the advanced schemes helper hurt

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Speaker 1: JJ McCarthy helper hurt him.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think they're advanced, but in other ways they're

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Speaker 5: theoretically simpler in the sense that what Kevin O'Connell is

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Speaker 5: really good at, just like Kyle Shanahan is really good at,

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Speaker 5: is they're really good at getting the primary read open

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Speaker 5: and available for the quarterback because they're really good at

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Speaker 5: understanding defenses, which is critical as a play caller. You're

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Speaker 5: not calling plays in a vacuum. You're calling plays based

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Speaker 5: on your sense of defensive tendency and probability. And one

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Speaker 5: thing Kevin O'Connell's really good at. We saw that with

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Speaker 5: Sam Darnold last year, which is why Sam had such

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Speaker 5: a good season. One of the reasons, anyway, is he's

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Speaker 5: so good at getting that primary read open, and that

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Speaker 5: will be critical for JJ McCarthy this year because my

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Speaker 5: guess is JJ McCarthy in these early stages of his

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Speaker 5: development is not going to be great yet at working

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Speaker 5: through progressions, certainly not full field progressions.

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Speaker 6: So I think that's a critical.

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Speaker 5: Piece of how JJ McCarthy can do this year, and

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Speaker 5: all that gets tied in with your footwork and the

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Speaker 5: timing of routes. There's so much that goes into that

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Speaker 5: that will be a work in progress as well.

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Speaker 1: So I watched bo Nicks twice live in college. He's cut,

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Speaker 1: he's fast. Yeah, when you watched all his tape, my

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Speaker 1: take is we don't watch Denver as much as we

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Speaker 1: watch those NFC East teams, and people just don't realize

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Speaker 1: how good of an athlete is. When you look at

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Speaker 1: bon Nick's rookie tape, what are people missing about him?

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Speaker 1: Because his numbers were better than Jayden in many instances.

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Speaker 5: I think what people miss and I would say I

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Speaker 5: probably missed it to some degree as well when I

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Speaker 5: did his college tape, even though I liked him, is

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Speaker 5: I think his arm is better than people give it

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Speaker 5: gave it credit for. And when I say arm strength,

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Speaker 5: I'm not talking about the ability to throw the ball.

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Speaker 6: Sixty or seventy yards.

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Speaker 5: I'm talking about the ability to stick throws in the

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Speaker 5: middle of the field, dig balls, you know, eighteen to

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Speaker 5: twenty two yards, in breaking routes between and over defenders.

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Speaker 6: He threw the ball really, really well. Those are really.

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Speaker 5: Armstringed throws, those kinds of throws, and I think that

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Speaker 5: he throws the ball a lot better than people give

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Speaker 5: him credit for.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 5: I think there's clearly some things that he has to

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Speaker 5: work on. I'm sure Sean Payton would tell you that

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Speaker 5: he's only going into his second year. But I think

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Speaker 5: just in terms of sheer physical traits as a passer,

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Speaker 5: he's a lot better than he's been given credit for.

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Speaker 5: And you've probably been around him. He's a pretty big kid, Colin.

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Speaker 5: He's not a small guy. And he's a very good athlete.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very very good athlete. I noticed when I went

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Speaker 1: to the Utah Oregon game and I sat behind the bench,

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Speaker 1: and he is ripped. I mean he is. He's not

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Speaker 1: trying to shot off. He has just cut very little

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Speaker 1: body fat. So Drake May came in. I think we

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Speaker 1: both like Drake May. The comp was justin Herbert and

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Speaker 1: at the times I've watched him, and he does look

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Speaker 1: a little like Herbert. I mean the size, the number,

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Speaker 1: the way he moves. Is there anything you saw? Now

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Speaker 1: he's got a better coach. They spent three hundred million

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Speaker 1: bucks around him online play. What was your overall appraisal

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Speaker 1: of him in the rearview mirror? Now watching year one

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Speaker 1: and his growth.

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Speaker 5: Very impressed given, as you know, colin a bad situation,

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Speaker 5: maybe one of the worst five zero lines in the

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Speaker 5: NFL A receiving corps that I mean, I would bet

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Speaker 5: a lot.

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Speaker 6: Of people couldn't even name their receivers.

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Speaker 5: So given the situation he was in, I thought he

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Speaker 5: handled himself really well. You'd expect him to be up

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Speaker 5: and down in that situation, and he was. But I

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Speaker 5: think overall, you're dealing with a kid that's big, he's physical,

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Speaker 5: he throws the ball really well, he can move. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think there's anything. And again we're

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Speaker 5: not there, so we don't know the mental capacity of

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Speaker 5: how he assimilates all the information that he needs to assimilate.

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Speaker 6: Obviously, it's Josh McDaniels now as the OC. We'll see

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Speaker 6: how that goes.

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Speaker 5: But you're dealing with a guy that has pretty higher

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Speaker 5: level traits and it might take some time. And he's

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Speaker 5: learning a brand new offense. I'm not sure people realize

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Speaker 5: how difficult that is. You've been around, you've seen play calls,

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Speaker 5: you've seen how all that works. That's hard. It's hard

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Speaker 5: to assimilate a brand new offense. He just went through

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Speaker 5: a rookie year where he had to work his tail

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Speaker 5: off mentally, and now all of a sudden, he's starting

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Speaker 5: from scratch with a whole new offense, probably brand new terminology.

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Speaker 6: So that takes time. But when you talk.

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Speaker 5: About the physical and athletic traits, he's got them.

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Speaker 1: You know. This off season, you know, I know it's

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Speaker 1: a slow off season for all of us in the

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Speaker 1: talk show business, but there was a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a week long theory Jalen Hurts when gms and coaches

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Speaker 1: pulled privately their thoughts on the top ten quarterbacks, Jalen

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Speaker 1: Hurts was like nine and right take has always been.

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Speaker 1: I trust Greg Gosel and I've said this, he reminds

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Speaker 1: me of a more talented Dak Prescott. I like his EQ,

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Speaker 1: I like his IQ, I like his toughness, I like

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Speaker 1: his leadership. I don't love him from the pocket I

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Speaker 1: never loved Dak from the pocket. I just thought he

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Speaker 1: was a smart, tough, gritty leader. When you hear that

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Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts, the GMS, the scouts, the coaches are like,

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Speaker 1: he's ninth best. What is your takeaway? Un Hurts the quarterback?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think every quarterback for the most part, and

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Speaker 5: it becomes a function in many ways of their team,

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Speaker 5: and Hurts is very much that kind of player. When

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Speaker 5: you think about the Eagles and how they won a

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Speaker 5: year ago the Super Bowl, my guess is most people

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Speaker 5: the first thing they say is not boy, that's Jalen

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Speaker 5: Hurts his team. I mean, this was a team with

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Speaker 5: a running back that had historical season. They've got the

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Speaker 5: best O line in football, they had the best defense

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Speaker 5: in football. Jalen Hurts is a piece of a really

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Speaker 5: good team, and they do a lot of things that

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Speaker 5: are difficult to defend. And let me get a few examples,

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Speaker 5: and I've spoken to coaches this offseason about it.

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Speaker 6: They are a four down offense.

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Speaker 5: Literally once they get to let's say the minus forty

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Speaker 5: five yard line or the fifty yard line. So now

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Speaker 5: what happens is defense is when it's third and eight

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Speaker 5: have to play them totally differently because you know what,

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Speaker 5: they're going to run the ball on third and eight.

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Speaker 5: Most teams will never consider running the ball on third

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Speaker 5: and eight, So now you have to think, how do

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Speaker 5: I play defensively because they're going to run the ball,

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Speaker 5: because if they get to fourth and two, they are

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Speaker 5: going to go for it. And Jalen Hurts is a critical,

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Speaker 5: critical piece of their third down and fourth down offense

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Speaker 5: and one of the things he does exceptionally well. And

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Speaker 5: I heard this a lot this offseason. Everybody talked about

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Speaker 5: AJ Brown and how critical it is that he can

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Speaker 5: win one on one on the outside because Jalen Hurts.

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Speaker 5: The best thing about his throwing Colin is he works

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Speaker 5: outside the numbers. He can throw the fade ball, he

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Speaker 5: can throw the goal ball, and AJ Brown gets a

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Speaker 5: ton of one on one because of the nature of

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Speaker 5: their run game, which of course Jalen Hurts is a

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Speaker 5: significant part of. So he's a critical piece in what

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Speaker 5: he brings. But if you're comparing him to let's say,

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Speaker 5: the quarterbacks that we think of as being the elite

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Speaker 5: guys that can, in a sense, be the guys that

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Speaker 5: win games by themselves, he probably does not fall into

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Speaker 5: that category.

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Speaker 1: So I said, my prediction is when quarterbacks get old

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Speaker 1: and rich, they do not want to get hit. And

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Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers last year Eli at the end of his career,

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to get hit. Brady was practicing how

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Speaker 1: to get sacked. When I watched Aaron at the end

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Speaker 1: of last year, it was a lot of underneath stuffs.

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Speaker 1: He didn't want to take hits and blame him the

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Speaker 1: Jets old life. Well, Pittsburgh can't solve their offensive linebrom

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Speaker 1: six years in a row now, Greg and their early

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Speaker 1: reports from camp are he's not throwing the ball down

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Speaker 1: the field and might take his outside of Matt Stafford.

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Speaker 1: Very few old, wealthy quarterbacks are willing to take a

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Speaker 1: helmet to the chin stripe. He is one of one.

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Speaker 1: I think the problem with Aaron in Pittsburgh is he,

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Speaker 1: like the Jets, he will not trust that O line.

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Speaker 1: What do you think of that?

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Speaker 5: I wish I had time to tell you a great

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Speaker 5: Jim Kelly story, but that'll be for another time. But anyway,

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Speaker 5: you know, I think the key thing here is the

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Speaker 5: tackle position for the Steelers because Roderick Jones, going into

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Speaker 5: his third season, has not really shown that he's a

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Speaker 5: quality NFL offensive tackle, and that's a concern. Look, the

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Speaker 5: litmus test for offensive tackles in the NFL is can

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Speaker 5: they pass protect one on one on third down? And

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Speaker 5: right now the Steelers have a question about that. And

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Speaker 5: if that remains a question in the regular season, your

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Speaker 5: point about Rodgers is one hundred percent right.

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Speaker 6: He's not going to want to get hit. He's going

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Speaker 6: to want to get rid of the football.

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Speaker 5: He won't be immobile, but he certainly doesn't have the

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Speaker 5: mobility that he had four or five, six, seven years ago.

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Speaker 6: So it'll be very interesting.

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Speaker 5: And then Arthur Smith, obviously they'd like to run the

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Speaker 5: ball as the foundation of their Offense's going to be

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Speaker 5: the absolute critical piece. You know, Roger still throws the

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Speaker 5: ball as well as anybody, but I'm not sure at

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Speaker 5: this point in his career. Behind that old line, you

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Speaker 5: want to ask him to drop back forty times a game.

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Speaker 1: No, you do not. So the Lions lose Benjo, they

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Speaker 1: lose two great coordinators. And I said, I've said multiple

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Speaker 1: times the Eagles go to a Super Bowl, lose their coordinators,

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Speaker 1: hire the wrong guys, and then at one point lost

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Speaker 1: six to seven games. We pay attention to quarterbacks and

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Speaker 1: head coaches. But a lot of coaches that are not

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Speaker 1: great scheme coaches need they're very reliant on a scheme, like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, Dan Campbell's not known Dan Campbell, Nick Serian,

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Speaker 1: You're not great scheme guys. They're culture guys. And so

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Speaker 1: losing Ben Johnson to me is a big deal. It

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be a big deal for Shanahan or Andy Reid,

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Speaker 1: but I think Dan Campbell is more of a culture

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Speaker 1: guy that is reliant on a great OC. When you

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Speaker 1: looked at Ben Johnson last year, did we even undervalue

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Speaker 1: him how important he was? I mean, I always felt

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Speaker 1: like everybody was backpedaling against them because they had so

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Speaker 1: much effectiveness with trick plays, a dominant O line. I

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Speaker 1: don't think Detroit's going to be as good this year.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to be as clever and creative.

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Speaker 5: It'll be interesting because here's the question that we don't

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Speaker 5: know the answer to, because now Jared Goff was in

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Speaker 5: that system with Ben Johnson for what three four years?

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Speaker 6: I'm not sure we give Jared Goff enough credit.

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Speaker 5: We just spoke about how Caleb Williams has so much

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Speaker 5: to learn Goff really mastered that offense, so the question

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Speaker 5: is how much input will he have. Johnny Morton, I believe,

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Speaker 5: is the new OC and he was there, so obviously

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Speaker 5: they can keep a lot of the same principles and concepts.

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Speaker 5: But now you get into game play calling, which we

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Speaker 5: won't know the answer to that at all. But schematically,

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Speaker 5: what Ben Johnson does to me is so good. The

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Speaker 5: spacing he has versus his own coverage, it's beautiful, really

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Speaker 5: defines it exceedingly well. But you know, you're dealing with

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Speaker 5: a quarterback in GoF, and as I said, I'm not

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Speaker 5: sure we give him enough credit because he doesn't in

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Speaker 5: many ways fit the mold of how we see quarterbacks

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Speaker 5: now in the NFL because he's not a run around guy.

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Speaker 5: But you know, Goff really handled everything in that offense.

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Speaker 5: There's so many elements to that, as we discussed with

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Speaker 5: Caleb Williams. So we'll see how Detroit is, but I

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Speaker 5: think GoF plays a big role in this.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you mentioned that because I read

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Speaker 1: it this week and I forget where I read it,

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Speaker 1: but somebody said on the online I thought it was smart.

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Speaker 1: They said Ben Johnson may be great and Caleb's greatly talented.

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Speaker 1: What if they're stylistically a bad match. Like Kyle Shanahan

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Speaker 1: does not want quarterbacks running out of his place. He

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Speaker 1: does not. Now I do wonder if Ben and Caleb

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Speaker 1: it's not his guy, he didn't draft him, if stylistically

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Speaker 1: it may not be a perfect fit.

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Speaker 5: Greg, No, but no coach wants the quarterback to run

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Speaker 5: out of their place.

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Speaker 6: I'm telling you as a fat column. You know, obviously

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Speaker 6: there's obviously there's certain.

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Speaker 5: Guys that can do that really well, and then the

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Speaker 5: coaching staff goes, hey, great play, because they make great plays.

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Speaker 5: But no coach, you know, look, I've been a training camps.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure you have. These coaches work fifteen hours a day.

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Speaker 5: No offensive coordinator is calling a game or any play

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Speaker 5: to have the quarterback not execute it the way it's

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Speaker 5: supposed to be executed. Obviously, they understand there are times

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Speaker 5: that can't happen, but they don't want it not to

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Speaker 5: happen because the quarterback screws it up. They want it

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Speaker 5: not to happen because the defense happens to win the down.

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Speaker 5: So there's no coach that wants the quarterback to just

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Speaker 5: randomly break down and disrupt the play. So it's not

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Speaker 5: that Caleb Johnson's a bad fit. Caleb Johnson needs to

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Speaker 5: excuse me.

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Speaker 6: Caleb Williams.

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Speaker 5: Caleb Williams needs to learn all this and then as

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Speaker 5: a parachute as the last thing, then the ability to

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Speaker 5: make those special plays comes into play.

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Speaker 6: But that can't be the first thing.

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Speaker 1: And finally, I tried to be very positive with Shdeer Sanders.

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Speaker 1: I did not like what I heard about his interviews

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Speaker 1: pre draft. I did not like the kind of lack

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Speaker 1: of self awareness legendary in his draft room. But I

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Speaker 1: was like, listen, he's accurate, he moves pretty well, good pedigree.

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Speaker 1: And then he got two speeding tickets and I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're not serious. You're not as serious. I need to

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Speaker 1: grown up for this position. And so I don't have

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Speaker 1: high hopes. And I said this for years. I think quarterback,

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Speaker 1: it's almost unfair, but we need you to be have

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Speaker 1: the maturity of your dad at twenty three. That's why

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Speaker 1: the Mannings all work. They're all like, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: very mature people. So I don't have a particularly high

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Speaker 1: hopes because I've seen a lack of self awareness and

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Speaker 1: judgment for Shaduer Is there anything on tape you love

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Speaker 1: or don't love as he plays tomorrow in the exhibition game.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think what his tape showed, and look, he

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Speaker 5: was a fifth round pick, and he's a fifth round

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Speaker 5: pick for a reason. Now can fifth round quarterbacks make it?

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Speaker 5: Of course they can. So I'm not going to sit

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Speaker 5: here and say whether he will or won't. But I

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Speaker 5: think what you saw on tape was a quarterback that's

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Speaker 5: a little smaller than you'd ideally like, that throws the

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Speaker 5: ball well, but not incredibly well. I think he's accurate,

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Speaker 5: but not quite as super accurate as a lot of

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Speaker 5: people make out.

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Speaker 6: And that's based on film study. That's not an opinion.

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Speaker 5: And I've had that conversation, by the way, with coaches,

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Speaker 5: and he's essentially a pocket quarterback.

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Speaker 6: He's not a statue.

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Speaker 5: But if he were to be a really good NFL quarterback, Colin,

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Speaker 5: it would have to be because he's a pocket quarterback.

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Speaker 5: He's not a playmaker. He doesn't give you a playmaking dimension.

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Speaker 5: He's not Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen. He's not going

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Speaker 5: to be that guy. So that's what he is. Those

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Speaker 5: kinds of quarterbacks in the NFL tend to be complementary pieces.

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Speaker 5: They can be really really good. I mean, you could

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Speaker 5: argue Jared Goff is that kind of quarterback. He's far

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Speaker 5: more talented than Schadur Sanders. But I mean, essentially, he's

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Speaker 5: a pocket quarterback. So he needs a really good coaching staff,

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Speaker 5: he needs team, he needs a lot of things around

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Speaker 5: him to be successful.

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Speaker 6: Maybe he will be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The two best pocket guys are Stafford and Golf,

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Speaker 1: and they are great throwers of the football. They are elite.

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Speaker 1: It's great. Yes, yeah, I mean I think Golf has

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Speaker 1: probably the most underrated arm in the league. Not the best,

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Speaker 1: but the most underrated arm in the league.

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Speaker 5: Jared Goff and you know that Stafford. Let me tell

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Speaker 5: you something. Stafford is so highly respected in the league.

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Speaker 5: Everywhere I go, all people want to talk to me

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Speaker 5: about is Matthew Stafford and how great he is. And

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure fans in general think about him that way,

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Speaker 5: but he's so highly respected.

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Speaker 1: Greg Cosell, great seeing you his first appearance of many

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Speaker 1: And have yourself a great Friday in a great weekend.

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Speaker 6: All right, thanks, Colin, really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's so Yeah, and again, I just it's

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Speaker 1: amazing to me that people would downplay two speeding tickets

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Speaker 1: for a fifth round quarterback in a week. Just I

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Speaker 1: had a situation. All these coaches in GMS, they watch

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Speaker 1: all these shows and they list they're just the information junkies.

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Speaker 1: I can remember just a small thing I remember as

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Speaker 1: an aside during the combine when Will Levis showed up

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Speaker 1: in the sleeveless shirt with a gun show and I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, so bad. He's trying to he wants,

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Speaker 1: he want, you know, he's trying. I had an NFC

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Speaker 1: coach call me after the show leave a message. I

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Speaker 1: called him back and put me on speaker phone with

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Speaker 1: somebody and they were laughing. They were like, oh god,

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Speaker 1: we just we just thought it was the most ridiculous thing.

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Speaker 1: And then I had an AFC executive. I had a

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Speaker 1: text with him two or three times, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: what you what matters to you. You're sending signals at

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Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. You're sending signals at the Combine. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: in games, you're emotional, you do things that you know,

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Speaker 1: you know it's in the heat of the battle. But

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Speaker 1: when you're in a combine or a senior Bowl or

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Speaker 1: a practice. You're sending signals and these gms they're watching

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Speaker 1: all of it. You get two speeding tickets as a

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Speaker 1: fifth round quarterback. Every team that passed on him laughed

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Speaker 1: at him. The New York Giants, everybody, Jackson Dark Giants

430
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Speaker 1: were laughing at that. Remember how bad Shoodoor's interview reportedly

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Speaker 1: was with the Giants and they were like, we got

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Speaker 1: we got questions on self awarenes They were laughing at that.

433
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: So don't let your critics laugh. Make them wish hope

434
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: they sit in there going. Remember when Letterman left NBC

435
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: and went to CBS and Letterman had this hysterical opening

436
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: press conference. It was genuinely laugh out loud off the script. Funny,

437
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: you knew the NBC executives were watching that CBS press

438
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 1: conference going, we probably just should have paid him. He's

439
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: the funniest guy in the planet at the time.

440
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 2: One More Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,

441
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 2: seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd

442
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 2: to listen live or on demand whenever you.

443
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 7: Like, Hey, this is Jason McIntyre.

444
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 4: Join me every weekday morning on my podcast Straight Fire

445
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 4: with Jason McIntyre.

446
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 7: This isn't your.

447
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 4: Typical sports pod pushing the same tired narratives down your

448
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 4: throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on

449
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 4: all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you

450
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 4: win big at the sports book.

451
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 7: And all the best guests.

452
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 4: Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with

453
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 4: Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

454
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 4: you get your podcasts.

455
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: It is early August. Mid August is a lot of

456
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: baseball teams getting ready for the postseason. Texas Ohio State

457
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: Labor Day weekend. Can't wait for that. J Mack with the.

458
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 2: News on the News, this is the Herdline News.

459
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 7: Colliard's starting with the team we rarely.

460
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 4: Talk about around here, and that's the Chicago Barrison and Johnson.

461
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 3: Ben.

462
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 4: Ben's is stilling a new culture in Chicago, and it

463
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 4: starts with accountability. There's GM Ryan Poles said. Johnson has

464
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 4: been holding players to a standard and it starts with

465
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 4: the QB.

466
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: I see a ton of growth.

467
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 8: Ben has been hard on the quarterback position because of

468
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 8: everything you just said. There's a lot that rides on

469
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 8: the quarterback shoulders. So what he's doing is He's making

470
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 8: it hard now so that when we get to games

471
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 8: things slow down for us. He understands the growth and

472
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 8: development process of the quarterback position. There's gonna be days

473
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 8: that are really good, and there's gonna be days where

474
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 8: maybe you take a step back.

475
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 4: Interesting, man, So, Colin, you know, you and I do

476
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: some interviews. I go on radio shows often. I will

477
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 4: say this, it's got to be real tough as a

478
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 4: football player, basketball player, coach GM you.

479
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 7: Have to face the media every day and not step.

480
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 4: In it and say something that you're gonna regret or

481
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 4: want to walk back instantly. Because with Caleb, there's been

482
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 4: some issues with Ben Johnson clearly, right. I mean you've

483
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 4: been banging on him almost three four days a week. Yeah,

484
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 4: And all it takes is one kernel from this guy.

485
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 4: Because I'm parsing the every word. You know, Bears bloggers,

486
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 4: social media, they're going through every word, and there's days

487
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 4: where you might take a step back.

488
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, what year two?

489
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 4: It's got to be step forward, it's got to be

490
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 4: linear what's going on here? And I just I don't

491
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 4: envy Poles having to go do all these interviews. It's

492
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 4: just especially with a new coach, new culture quarterback off

493
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 4: of the struggle bus.

494
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: It just feels tough, and it does matter that Chicago

495
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: is a big, loud, aggressive media market. I listened to

496
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: Chicago radio. It's Cubs because the Cubs are good this year.

497
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: It's Cubs and Bears, and that's what they talk about.

498
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of eyes on it. And

499
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: it's not a very good ownership group. There's questions about upstairs.

500
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: I don't know if Poles is good or not. I

501
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: don't know. He's done some things. I like, he's done

502
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: some things I don't like. I like Ben Johnson a lot,

503
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: and I think Caleb is really gifted. I mean, even

504
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: Greg co Sell said, despite his problems, he said, when

505
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: he throws the football, it is beautiful.

506
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 6: It is.

507
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: He has got a power. He's like Mahomes. Mahomes is

508
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: like six to two. He's not that big of a guy.

509
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: The dad bought Mahomes has a cannon. Caleb Williams is

510
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: six feet tall, but he his arm is like it's

511
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: a top five or six arm in the league. He

512
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: has a huge power arm.

513
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 7: I mean, listen to Saint Jacksonville.

514
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 4: You know Ryot Jacksonville, GM goes on radio like seventeen

515
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 4: people hear it. You go on Chicago, it's a brushfire

516
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 4: every day. Let's move on to Pittsburgh, Colin, I don't

517
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 4: like this story one bit. So Aaron Rodgers, obviously new

518
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 4: to Pittsburgh, just got their offense, is kind of struggling.

519
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 4: So Rogers is struggling to develop chemistry with his receivers

520
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 4: who are not DK Metcalt. Listen closely to what Rogers

521
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 4: said here.

522
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 9: Gotta get a row out of his head a little bit,

523
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 9: you know, because I think he's he's such a good kid.

524
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 9: He cares so much about whether it's my approval or

525
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 9: he's doing it right. And he just got to trust

526
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 9: himself because he's so damn talented. You know, the more

527
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 9: he could play free and not not sink out there,

528
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 9: the better he's gonna play. So the more he can

529
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 9: just trust what he's got and then just go out

530
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 9: and react, the better he's going to play.

531
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 4: Okay, So to the backstory, Roman Wilson, kid out of Michigan,

532
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 4: is a young receiver. He was a rookie last year,

533
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 4: third round pick, and Aaron Rodgers meeting the media, felt

534
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 4: compelled to tell.

535
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 7: Them, oh, this young guy.

536
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 4: He's got to get out of his head a little bit.

537
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 4: I mean, I know it's August Cullin and I know

538
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 4: Rogers just got there.

539
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 7: But that's like the antithesis of leadership.

540
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: Is it not? Well that that? I don't know. I

541
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: I don't know if he'll Why.

542
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 4: Do you go to the media, Tell Roman bro get

543
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 4: out of your head, go to the.

544
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 7: Media and hype this guy up.

545
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 4: Can you imagine if you were doing interviews when I

546
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 4: start on the so and you're like, yea j Max

547
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 4: got to get out of his head a little bit.

548
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I told That's what That's what I

549
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: told management.

550
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 4: I didn't have to tell the ones don't tell the media,

551
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 4: so I got to read about it.

552
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know. I mean, I think I have

553
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: a hard time criticizing Aaron Rodgers or Kevin Durant when

554
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: they give me content, and so I do think. I

555
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 1: do think there are certain people, certain athletes, who just

556
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: tell you how they feel. My only issue with Aaron is,

557
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: and it's not really an issue. Aaron does not want

558
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: to get hit. He's forty one in rich and Pittsburgh.

559
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: You got to sit in there. This is not a

560
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: great old they lost their left tackle, Najee Harris. This

561
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: is not a good old line, and so I think

562
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: they're bigger issue. I don't think Roman Wilson he's more

563
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: of it. I was never a huge of all the

564
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: great Michigan players. I thought he was kind of a

565
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: two or three in the NFL. I don't even know

566
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: if he's a two. Maybe he is, but it didn't

567
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: bother me that much.

568
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 7: I mean, it doesn't.

569
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 4: By the so Aaron Rodgers says that it's all over

570
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 4: Pittsburgh radio, TV, blog, social media, and I'm sure Roman

571
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 4: Wilson sees it. And now you're in the locker room

572
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 4: and everybody's looking at you knowing you're in your head.

573
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: That's just unnecessary crap, Colin. This is what Rogers does. Man,

574
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 4: He's divisive. He's not unifying.

575
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: Well, I mean romand Wilson, if he's gonna make it

576
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: in the pros, that comment cannot be an obstacle. Well,

577
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: you don't get rainbows and palm palms every day. If

578
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: you can't handle some criticism by Aaron Rodgers, you're not

579
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: built for it. I mean, seriously, you got to really,

580
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: romand Wilson's gonna go home a Sleepless Night tonight. He'll

581
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: be fine.

582
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 7: Praise publicly, criticized privately. A smart man once.

583
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 4: I think that was Plato, Aristotle, somebody really smart.

584
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 7: Anyways, final story, Colin, Let's go.

585
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: To the Raiders.

586
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 4: Gino Smiths and Pete Carroll reuniting in Vegas in their

587
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: first game is Raiders. The duo will go to a

588
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 4: very familiar place to play, Seattle. Gino talked about returning

589
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 4: to his old home with his old.

590
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 8: Coach man, looking forward to it, really looking forward to it,

591
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 8: looking forward to seeing my old teammates, whole coaches people

592
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 8: in the building.

593
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 4: It'll be fun.

594
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: Also going back with Pete. That's pretty cool.

595
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 6: Yeah.

596
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: I think Geno is a little Sam Darnold. If you

597
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: give him that extra second to stand in there and

598
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: throw it, he's good. He's very good. If you rush

599
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: him with Donald and Gino, you're gonna get mistakes. I

600
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: think the A line for the Raiders is fine in

601
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: their division. It's not as good as Denvers, and I

602
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: don't think it'll be as good as the Chargers. It

603
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: may be on par with Kansas City's where you're kind

604
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: of hoping. Josh Simmons works at left tackle, but I

605
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: think the Raiders are actually gonna be good. I just

606
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: don't know. I think in a lot of divisions, i'd

607
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: pick them as a dark horse wild card team and

608
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: a lot of division. If you put them in the AFCSALTH,

609
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: I think they could win the division. If you put

610
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: them in the NFCSALTH, I think they could battle. I

611
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: don't think they're as good as Tampa because a Baker,

612
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: but they could battle to win the division. I think

613
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: in this place they're battling for third because they don't

614
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: have Denver's roster, they don't have the Charger, they don't

615
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: have Mahomes, you know, and so it's I mean, Pete

616
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: didn't get an easy draw here. They've got three or

617
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: four great players. Rock Bowers and Max Crosby are first

618
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: ballot All Pro guy. Those guys are great players. Secondary

619
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: is a little underrated. But if they can protect Gino,

620
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: I think here's what I would say. The Raiders have

621
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 1: a chance to split every series in this division. And

622
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: you can't say that about the Giants in the NFC East.

623
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: You can't. Most fourth place teams do not have a

624
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: chance to split. There's some fourth place teams Indianapolis, you know,

625
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: if their quarterback plays as bad as it could be,

626
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: they're gonna get swept by somebody in division. I think.

627
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: I think the Raiders could split with the Chiefs, the Broncos,

628
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: and Kansas City. I think there'll be that improved.

629
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: I got a couple moles in Vegas and Colin the

630
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 4: hype train for Ashton genty right now. I mean they're

631
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 4: saying like this guy is gonna right out of the

632
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 4: gate be an unbelievable player for the Raider.

633
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 7: Now we'll see. I know it's a big leap from

634
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 7: Boise to the NF.

635
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: I can't wait to I cannot wait.

636
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: To watch, you know, I think you know, I would

637
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 4: not be surprised if it was a thirteen fourteen hundred

638
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 4: yard season from Ashton Gen.

639
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 7: I was just put that out there.

640
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: Well, fantasy football out there, okay. J McK with the news, Well.

641
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: That's the news, and thanks for stopping by The Herd

642
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: Line News.

643
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: I like my coaches to get in the middle of scrums.

644
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that next.

645
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays

646
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 2: and Noone Easter nn A EM Pacific on Fox Sports

647
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio.

648
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 4: App Saturday it's a baseball night in America as a

649
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 4: rising star Pete crow Armstrong leads the Cubs against the Cardinals,

650
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: or Bryce Harper and the Phillies battle the Rangers. Check

651
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 4: local listings for the game in your area, Saturday, sevent

652
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 4: easternn Fox.

653
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: So it was about, uh, probably about four months ago,

654
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: four or five months ago. It was what are we

655
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: in August, July, June, Juan, it was teams were hiring

656
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: had just finished up hiring their coaches in the NFL.

657
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: So maybe it's probably about March. And I was talking.

658
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: I was driving on the four h five headed home,

659
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: and I was, Uh. I called a friend of mine

660
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: who's an executive in the NFL, who has done who

661
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: has hired multiple coaches in his career, his long career,

662
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 1: and he said, you know what you're really doing when

663
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: you hire a coach is in the NFL, you're hiring

664
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: a CEO. If they're good with schemes, that's a bonus.

665
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: And he mentioned like Shanahan and Andy Reid. He said, yeah,

666
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: that's a bonus, but they don't have to be. He said,

667
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, Mike Tomlins hoisted a trophy. Pete Carroll has

668
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: been to a couple of super bowls there, walk around guys,

669
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: they're CEOs there, and he goes, you're what you If

670
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: you have a guy that's great with schemes, but he's

671
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: terrible in building a culture, that won't work. If you

672
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: have a guy who's not necessarily great with schemes, but

673
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: he can hire a great staff, he's great with culture

674
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: that can get you to super Bowls and win super Bowls.

675
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: And so when the Patriots hired Mike Vrabel, Vrabel's really smart,

676
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: but he's known as a culture guy. He builds toughness.

677
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 1: And so they got into a scuffle at New England

678
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: practice and Vrabel and this is this is very much

679
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: Mike Rabel. This is Dan Campbell talking about biiten kneecaps.

680
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: Dan Campbell is a smart guy, but he's a culture guy.

681
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: And he walked into Detroit and he was yelling in

682
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: and a dip in. He was tough. He was creating

683
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: a culture of toughness. Take his shirt off and bang

684
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: into you. Harbaugh does this, He'll take his shirt off,

685
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: He'll go up again. It's the sled. Harbaugh no schemes,

686
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: but Harbaugh's a culture builder. So Vrabel gets into a scuffle.

687
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: You know, they have some scuffle. He jumps into it

688
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: because head gets all bloody, and Drake May was talking

689
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: about him breaking up the camp scuffle.

690
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: And it starts with the coach.

691
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 10: Starts with the head coach. The intensity bring it every day, Uh,

692
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 10: you know, taking no crap and you know we're out

693
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 10: there on the field. But also it comes to a

694
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 10: time where with our guys offensively and get over there

695
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 10: and gets some tussles and kind of have some penalties

696
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 10: and extra after the whistle can get us some trouble.

697
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: But for mentality, I like it so and again it helps.

698
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: It helps that Vrabel is a large man, but Nick

699
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,959
Speaker 1: Saban's a culture builder and he's five six. You didn't

700
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: know that he's five to six, So that's not everything.

701
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: Urban Meyer's more of a bigger athletic man. Mike Tomlin's

702
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: a culture guy. Uh, Vrabel is, Dan Campbell is and

703
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: and then that's one of the things I have said.

704
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I always thought, remember when the Bulls and

705
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: the Knicks, when we get into these series, the Miami

706
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: Heat and a Lonzo Morning and Patrick Ewing, I love

707
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: that Jeff Vandalls were physical series and the Knicks were

708
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: trying to establish physicality in that series, and Jeff Van

709
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: Gundy knew it. And Van Gundy's nuts anyway, I love him,

710
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: but he knew how important physicality was in this series,

711
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: and the NBA was going to let him fight, and

712
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: Van Gundy wanted to send the message, I'm I might

713
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: be five five and a half, but i I'll fight

714
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: with you. Look at Van Gun. This video is so good.

715
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: Van Gundy knew it was intentional. He didn't want to

716
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: get hit, but he knew he was sending a message.

717
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: You're not pushing my team around. This is a dog fight,

718
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: and I'll take my tie off. I'll fight you. That

719
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: is so incredibly powerful. That is so powerful and so

720
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: Invraibled does it. And that's what I've said about Mike McDaniel.

721
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: I don't question that. Mike McDaniel's small. He's a little guy,

722
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: and he's kind of snarky, and the media likes him

723
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: and the analytic guys love him. You know, Brandon Staley

724
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: was smart, but I didn't know if he could build

725
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: a culture. He'd get defensive at the microphone. Some guys.

726
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: Smart doesn't equal alpha, and there is that. You've got

727
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: fifty five men in the locker room and Nick Wright

728
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: came on this week, and we both think McDaniel is

729
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: super bright. But what are the Dolphins four years in?

730
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: What are Brian Flores? It took him eight games, remember

731
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: they were like one in seven. It took him eight

732
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: games to build the culture. But by like the ninth

733
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: tenth game of his Miami reign, and you didn't act

734
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: have to like Brian Flores. That team was good defensively

735
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: and physical. And Brian Flores is an alpha and he's loud,

736
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: and he's tough, maybe too much so, but I think

737
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: there is value in certain sports when you get to

738
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: the NBA playoffs and it is physical. I mean, Steve

739
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: Kerr is legendarily feisty. He got punched by Michael Jordan.

740
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: Part of what makes the Warriors work in their prime

741
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: was Draymond Green, Steve Kerr, andre Iguodala. It was a

742
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: tough team. They weren't big, they were feisty. There was

743
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: a lot of confrontation. Pat Riley's teams with the Lakers.

744
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: Pat's all slick in Armani suits. Pat was a fighter.

745
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: Pat when he went to the Knicks, Pat love physicality

746
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: and Pat would let guys know Pat would bark at rafts,

747
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: bark at everybody it mattered, And this was Nick right,

748
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: And this has always been a thing with Mike McDaniel.

749
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: I don't doubt he's smart. Can he build Lincoln Riley?

750
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: Same criticism. We know he's smart. Can he build a culture?

751
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: Why aren't his teams tougher? Here's Nick right this week

752
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: on Mike McDaniel.

753
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 11: Some of the reason that the media loves him might

754
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 11: also be related to why his team pretty clearly does

755
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 11: not fear him the way they seem to some of

756
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 11: the more effective coaches. But I think that there is

757
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 11: an arrogance to the idea that that's in some ways

758
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 11: that football has talked about when it comes to the

759
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 11: actual physicality and toughness.

760
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 7: Of the game that gets lost in some of the math.

761
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: It's interesting and it's not just size again. Sabans six.

762
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: I think Sean McVay is about five nine, five ten.

763
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: I've talked to Rams players about McVeigh.

764
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 4: He is.

765
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: He is probably right now as good as any culture

766
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: builder in the league. He probably the best culture builder.

767
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: Mcvay's unbelievable in the locker room. He is unbelievable in

768
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: the film room. Like, and I'm talking as good as

769
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: anybody that's ever been Sean McVay, maybe as good as

770
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: any culture builder in league history's five nine Sabans five six.

771
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 1: But there is something. It's volume, its presence. Mcveagh's good looking.

772
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: You know, he was a good athlete, and I just

773
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: think this stuff matters. And the media thinks it's a

774
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: bunch of bull, But that's that's my thing. When Mike

775
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: Rabel's getting involved in the scuffle or Jeff Van Gundy

776
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: is it's intentional. It's like, guys, I'm in the fight

777
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: with you. Yeah, I'm And Drabel's got blood coming out

778
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: of his forehead. It's like, that's Mike Rabel. You go

779
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: back to Dan Campbell early. I thought it was a

780
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: little meat heady. I was wrong. I was like, boy,

781
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: this fighting kneecap stuff. This is embarrassing. I missed players.

782
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: I remember it was either the first or second year

783
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: of Detroit and they weren't good yet. I don't They

784
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: played Baltimore and I think they played him at home

785
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: and Baltimore beat them, and I went on the end.

786
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: I remember saying this, I said, I don't know how

787
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: good Detroit is. That team plays so hard, every stinking

788
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: the kneel down play. It was physical and I think

789
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't remember what year was. They

790
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: weren't great, they were getting close, but they played the Ravens.

791
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: I think it was. I think it was. You know,

792
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: you've heard of the word sweat equity. This is kind

793
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: of part of it. It was like early in the

794
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: process against the Ravens, and Ravens had far more talent,

795
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: and I was so blown away by how physical they were.

796
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: You don't get that unless the coach is building a

797
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: unique culture. You just don't get it. Did you guys

798
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: find what game that was? I don't know. I just

799
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: remember I was. I swear it was the Ravens. I

800
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: swear it was, but you know, maybe it wasn't.

801
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 4: I don't know.

802
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: It's summer. I'll have to go back. I have to

803
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: chat GPT. I'll find out here in the break. Albert

804
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: Brear is joining us in the last hour. If you

805
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: miss Greg Cosell, we'll put him on the podcast as well.

806
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: Archie Manning is saying arch Manning's not going pro get

807
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: me stay may just uh me five six year red

808
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: shirt again. May stay at Texas forever. We'll talk about

809
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: that