1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Just a quick heads up. Today's episode mentions sex crimes 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: against miners. There Are No Girls on the Internet, as 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm bridgetad and 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. We've 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: talked a lot about online conspiracy theories on the podcast, 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: but it's been a little while since we've talked about 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: Qanani stuff, and with Jeffrey Ebstein back in the news, 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: I think it's time to dip back in a little 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: bit because I honestly don't know if I believe what 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: a lot of folks are saying that this and by 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: this I mean Jeffrey Epstein might be the thing that 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: finally shakes up Trump Mago world. More on that in 13 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: a moment, But I do think it is a very 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: interesting example of what happens when somebody who makes their 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: entire thing about feeding conspiracy theories and builds up a 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: loyal following and doing so tries to put that toothpaste 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: back in the tube. Will it work? We will see. 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: So here's what's going on for folks who don't know. First, 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: I'll start with a kind of quick and dirty crash 20 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: course on who Epstein was with a few diversions how 21 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: we got here, and then I'll get into what I 22 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: think it all means. So first, who is Jeffrey Epstein. 23 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was a wealthy financier who really threw his 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: money all over the place. It's not totally clear how 25 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: he got his money and how much money he actually had. 26 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: Some people call him a billionaire. I've heard that disputed. 27 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: His background is kind of unbelievable. His first job was 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: as a teacher at a high school, despite that having 29 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: any formal teaching credentials or formal teaching education, if you 30 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: can believe that, And of course, while teaching, he had 31 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: a reputation for inappropriate behavior with his students. He was 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: first convicted of sex crimes against minors in two thousand 33 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: and eight and got off with a very lenient sentence 34 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: only about thirteen months with work release. After serving his 35 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: unbelievably short sentence, Epstein cantinued to amass money, power, and 36 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: influence until he was arrested again in twenty nineteen. Epstein 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: died in jail in twenty nineteen while awaiting trial on 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 1: federal sex trafficking charges. The New York City Medical Examiner 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: ruled his death of suicide, but conspiracy theories claiming that 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: Epstein didn't kill himself began to spread almost immediately in 41 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: the aftermath of his death. The idea here is that 42 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: Epstein did not actually die of suicide like we were told, 43 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: but instead was taken out to avoid more details that 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: might incriminate powerful people. And it's one of those theories 45 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: that kind of works regardless of what side of the 46 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: ail you're on, because Epstein had deep ties with both 47 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: political parties. The thing about Epstein is that part of 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: his moo really was ingratiating himself in lots of influential 49 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: spaces with wealthy, powerful people. He gave donations to a 50 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: lot of influential spaces. We did an episode that I'll 51 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: link to in the show notes about the contributions that 52 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: he made to MIT's Media Lab and the Kenyan first 53 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: year MIT grad student who called this out and called 54 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: for the head of the Media Lab to resign once 55 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: his connections to Jeffrey Epstein were revealed. So it's one 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: of those things where a lot of powerful, rich and 57 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 1: or famous people on all sides of the aisle had 58 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: deep connections with Epstein at one time or another, and 59 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: that is exactly the way that Epstein designed it. Now, obviously, 60 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: just because somebody was connected to Epstein does not mean 61 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: they did anything legal. Rich and famous people know other 62 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: rich and famous people. So once Epstein was in some 63 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: of those circles, I think a lot of people probably 64 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: did just casually know them because they were all rich 65 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: and powerful, not necessarily because they were all doing crimes together. 66 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: Just to give you a sense of the diversity of 67 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: people who were connected to Epstein's world, allow me two 68 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: quick diversions. One is that I just finished the fantastic 69 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: memoir called What Remains by Carol Radswell, formerly of the 70 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: Real Housewives of New York City, and once I finished 71 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: the book, I flipped the book around the back cover 72 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: to see her author photo and was shocked to see 73 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: the photo credit because that photo was taken by none 74 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: other than Gallaine Maxwell, who is currently incarcerated in connection 75 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: with helping traffic women and girls for Epstein. The second version, 76 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: if you'll allow me, is Epstein's connection to the creator 77 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: of one of my favorite television shows, The Simpsons, Matt Groening, 78 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: one of the last accusers of Epstein to be public 79 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: and not use a pseudonym like Jane Doe was Virginia 80 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: and Gouffrey, who died by apparent suicide. This April, who 81 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: in court described being sexually abused by Epstein, She gave 82 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: a detailed description of a foot massage that she said 83 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: that she was asked to give Matt Groening when she 84 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: was sixteen years old on a private flight in California. 85 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: This specific claim was made in an unpublished manuscript that 86 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: she wrote called The Billionaire's Playboy Club, where she described 87 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: how she was talking to Matt Groening on a flight, 88 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: telling him how much she loved The Simpsons when Epstein 89 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: suggested that she give mac Groning a foot massage, and 90 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: she agrees. He takes off his shoes and his feet 91 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: are so horrible that she's like, I can't do this, 92 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: and she takes out a rag and washes them first 93 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: because that's how bad they are. And as a show 94 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: of thanks, Matt Groening gets her a little drawing of 95 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: her two favorite Simpsons characters, Homer and Bart as a 96 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: thank you. Disgusting, so I wanted to share that to 97 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: illustrate the diversity of famous, powerful and wealthy people who 98 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: have a connection to Epstein and that is by design. 99 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: He did this as a way of protecting himself and 100 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: shielding himself from accountability for his many crimes. Kind of 101 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: like we talked about in that episode that we did 102 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: about Diddy really getting in tight with a lot of 103 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: different powerful people across a lot of different industries and sectors, 104 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: and of course throwing around tons of money, because how 105 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: could a man who spends so much of his own 106 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: money supporting charitable causes also be a serial abuser and 107 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: trafficker right, Also very similar to Sean p. Didty Comb's, 108 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: Epstein was known for having hidden cameras all around his 109 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: property as part of a compronaut strategy where he would 110 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: get evidence of these powerful people doing things they should 111 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: be doing and then use that to extort or blackmail 112 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: them later. And he apparently extorted people like Bill Gates, 113 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: who was friendly with Epstein and eventually Epstein tried to 114 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: extort him. According to The Wall Street Journal, before his 115 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: arrest and death, Epstein extorted Bill Gates by threatening to 116 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: release information about an extramarital affair that Gates had while 117 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: he was married. Now. Gates is divorced now and has 118 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: admitted that he had affairs while he was married. This 119 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: is from The Guardian. Epstein found out about the Microsoft's 120 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,119 Speaker 1: co founder's affair was a Russian bridge player, Mila Andtonova, 121 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: and he threatened Gates into reimbursing him for tuition costs 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: that Epstein had initially covered for Antonova to attend software 123 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: coding school. Epstein's threat to Gates came in the form 124 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: of an email he sent in twenty seventeen after he 125 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: failed to convince Gates to join a multi billion dollar 126 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: charity fund he attempted to set up. I looked into 127 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: this story and it's kind of a very weird situation. Basically, 128 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: this twenty year old Russian bridge enthusiast Antonova wanted half 129 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: a million dar to start a business that would teach 130 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: people to play bridge online. Epstein was like, oh, I 131 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: bet Gates will give you the money, so connected her 132 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: with Bill Gates. Bill Gates declined to give her the money, 133 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: but it sounds like they did start some kind of 134 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: a relationship while Gates was married. Then Epstein paid for 135 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: her to stay in an apartment and go to coding school. 136 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: At the same time, Epstein was trying to start up 137 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: this charitable fund with the bank JP Morgan, and this 138 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: was meant to be a way for Epstein to kind 139 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: of rebuild his reputation in polite society after he had 140 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: to register as a sex offender because of his two 141 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: thousand and eight conviction for sex crimes against miners. But 142 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: starting up this fund really relied on Epstein getting big 143 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: money from Bill Gates. So Epstein was kind of scamming. 144 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: He was communicating with JP Morgan as if he was 145 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: Bill Gates's financial advisor, but in reality he wasn't. When 146 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: this scam all blew up in Jeffrey Epstein's face, it 147 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: sounded like Epstein thought, well, at least Bill Gates should 148 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: be reimbursing me for this woman's coding school because he 149 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: ended up having an affair with her. So in twenty seventeen, 150 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: Epstein emailed Gates about Antonova after Gates's affair with her ended. 151 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: In the email, Epstein demanded Gates reimburse him for her 152 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: coding school costs. The tone of the message was that 153 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: Epstein knew about the affair and could expose it. The 154 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal reported Bill Gates' ex wife, Melinda has 155 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: given interviews to the effect that Bill Gates's relationship with 156 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was a contributing factor to their marriage falling apart. 157 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: You know, it was also widely reported that Bill had 158 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: a friendship or business or some kind of contact with 159 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein, and that you were not that That was 160 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: very upsetting to you. Did that play a role in 161 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: the divorce at all in this process? 162 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, As I said, it's not one thing. It was 163 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 3: many things. But I did not like that he'd had 164 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 3: meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. Now, and you made that clear 165 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 3: to him. I made that clear to him. I also 166 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 3: met Jeffrey Epstein. It is exactly one time, did you, Yes, 167 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 3: because I wanted to see who this man was, and 168 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: I regretted it from the second I stepped in the door. 169 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 3: He was abhorrent. He was evil personified. I had nightmares 170 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 3: about it afterwards. So, you know, my heart breaks for 171 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: these young women because that's how I felt. And here 172 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 3: I'm an older woman. My god, I feel terrible for 173 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 3: those young women's awful. 174 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: You felt that at the moment you walked in. 175 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you shared that with Bill, and he still 176 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: continued to spend. 177 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: Time with him. 178 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: Any of the questions remaining about what Bill's relationship there was. 179 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 3: Those are for Bill to answer, okay, but I made 180 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 3: it very clear how I felt about him. 181 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: So Epstein was all mixed up with all kinds of wealthy, 182 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: powerful people in tech and politics, and notably had connections 183 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: with both Democrats and Republicans. In twenty twenty four, a 184 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: federal court in Manhattan unsealed the court documents associated from 185 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: a twenty fifteen civil lawsuit and revealed the names of 186 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: numerous individuals described in the suit as associates, affiliates, or 187 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: victims of Jeffrey Epstein. Those names include people like President 188 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton and President Donald Trump, magician David Copperfield, Prince 189 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: Andrew which like no surprise there, the former Israeli Prime Minister, 190 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: actor Kevin Spacey, lawyer Alan Dershowitz. Dershwitz was a member 191 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: of the legal defense team for the criminal case against 192 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: Epstein in two thousand and eight, the late New Mexico 193 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: Governor Bill Richardson and former Vice President Al Gore, among others, 194 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: and of course, Trump has his own documented connections to Epstein. 195 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: Trump was known to have been friendly with Epstein, telling 196 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: New York Magazine in two thousand and two, I've known 197 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of 198 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: fun to be with. It's even said that he likes 199 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: beautiful women as much as I do, and many of 200 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: them are on the younger side. Now, these statements came 201 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: before there were any public allegations of wrongdoing against Epstein. 202 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: Epstein and Trump shared events at mar A Lago and 203 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: Palm Beach, where they both lived. There is lots of 204 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: video and photos of them partying together at Trump's mar 205 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: A Lago in nineteen ninety two, twenty seven, and two thousand. 206 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: They frequently traveled together. Epstein's private jetlogs list Trump on 207 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: multiple flights between Palm Beach and New York in the nineties. 208 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: Epstein is on audio describing Trump as quote his closest 209 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: friend for ten years. But remember Epstein is somebody who 210 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: inflated his connections or representation with wealthy and powerful people. 211 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: So who knows in any event, Very conveniently, in twenty nineteen, 212 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: after Epstein's arrest, Trump said that he had a falling 213 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: out with Epstein a long time ago. So during Trump's campaigns, 214 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: he really fanned the flames of the kind of conspiracy 215 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: theories adjacent to Epstein. But not necessarily Epstein specifically. This 216 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: is all complicated by the fact that Epstein was a real, 217 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: convicted child sex criminal, but his whole sada kind of 218 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: got lumped in with a mishmash of harm against children 219 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that are not true, things like QAnon, Pizzagate, 220 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: and Save the Children. So the fact that Epstein really 221 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: was an abuser of children and really was to powerful 222 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: political leaders kind of gets used as a proof point 223 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: for a larger umbrella of often anti Semitic, false narratives 224 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: about harm being done to children by a cabal of 225 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: global elites who control everything. And that is the set 226 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories that Trump more openly flirted with, even 227 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: if he did not often evoke Epstein's specifically, you can 228 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: see how this was a useful message for Trump to 229 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: have used in his campaigning. Trump and his allies really 230 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: harnessed the kind of simmering suspicion of establishment figures and 231 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: cast Trump in opposition as this bold outsider and the 232 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: only person brave enough to take on the deep state. 233 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: Trump pretty openly evoked all of this while campaigning. In 234 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, he reposted an image of himself wearing 235 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: a queue Q for q and on lapel pen overlaid 236 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: with the words the storm is coming in q Andon war. 237 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: The storm refers to what people think will be Trump's 238 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: final victory, when there will be mass arrests and maybe 239 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: even mass executions of Democrat sex criminals in the street. 240 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: Trump was asked about QAnon directly in an interview. Now, 241 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: he could have dismissed this as a baseless conspiracy theory, 242 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: but instead he praised the movement as people that love 243 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: our country. He basically was like, oh, QAnon says that 244 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm against pedophiles, I'm an enemy the pedophiles. If that's 245 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: a good thing, I'll take it. And he more or 246 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,599 Speaker 1: less reinforced their belief that he was exposing a satanic 247 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: pedophile ring. So he saw Trump really lean into this 248 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: idea too, posting images referring to himself as a martyr 249 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: fighting bad guys and criminals and psychopaths and the so 250 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: called deep state. Trump didn't often mention QAnon himself, but 251 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: he was more than happy to boost people who did. 252 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: Media Matters actually did an analysis of how often he 253 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: would repost outright obvious explicit QAnon supporters on social media 254 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: and that happened a ton. So he gets to signal 255 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: to these people, Hey, I see you, I get you, 256 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm one of you, wing wink, while keeping this kind 257 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: of plausible deniability cover of not having to have said 258 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: so directly, which we know by now is a Trump classic. 259 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break eder back. So the big 260 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: point of contention here is what is often called Epstein's 261 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: client list, a supposed list of powerful elites that Epstein 262 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: and Glaine Maxwell might have trafficked women and girls to 263 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: slash with. I should add that Gawker Rest in Peace 264 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: published Epstein's address book maybe ten years ago, and New 265 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: York Magazine published an annotated version back in twenty nineteen. 266 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: Business Insider released a searchable version the next year, along 267 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: with flight logs from Epstein's private plane, which were released 268 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. So Trump himself has spoken directly about 269 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: this client list since he got back into office, telling 270 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: supporters that he does intend to look into Epstein's client list. 271 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: He talked about it on his appearance on Lex Friedman's podcast. 272 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: I was gonna put the audio here, but honestly, yanna 273 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: want to hear Trump's voice? Yanna want to hear Lex 274 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: Friedman's voice, and frankly, neither do I. But the exchange 275 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: went like this. Freedman says, it's just very strange for 276 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people that that list of clients that 277 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: went to the island has not been made public, and 278 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: Trump responds, it's very interesting, isn't it. It probably will 279 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: be by the way. Friedman responds, if you're able, you'll 280 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: be and then Trump Interjackson says, yeah, I'd certainly take 281 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: a look at it now. Kennedy's interesting because it's so 282 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: many years ago. They do that for danger, because it 283 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: endangers certain people, etc. Etc. So Kennedy is very different 284 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: from the Epstein thing. But I'd be inclined to do 285 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it. But you'll 286 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: recall that back during Elon Musk and Donald Trump's a 287 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: big breakup earlier this summer, must claimed that Trump will 288 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: never release the Epstein client list because dunk dun Dunn 289 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: Trump is on the Epstein client list. So this is 290 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: a big issue because I simply cannot express to you 291 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: how much some of his deepest supporters truly did expect 292 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: mass arrests of Democrats and hundreds of Democratic lawmakers being 293 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: purfed walked through the streets in connection with sex crimes 294 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: against children and Epstein, and Trump kind of low key 295 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: hyped them up for this too, even if he never 296 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: came out and said it directly. Trump further leaned into 297 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: that whole conspiracy theory mindset when he appointed to senior 298 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: positions folks who have similarly used these same kind of 299 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories to make broad accusations of corruption and abuse, 300 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: most notably FBI Director Cash Pattel and FBI Deputy Director 301 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: Dan Bongino. Before they joined the government. Both Patel and 302 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: Bongino spent years on podcasts after podcasts and TV appearance 303 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: after TV appearance kind of winking at QAnon on Epstein's 304 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and demanding the files released, even going so 305 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: far as to suggest the Biden administration was intentionally holding 306 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: the Epstein client list to protect its own. So these 307 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: picks to the FBI were men who are deep, deep 308 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: in conspiracy world. When they came on board, I think 309 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: it gave Trump supporters this sense that like, yes, the 310 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: people in charge of the FBI, they are one of us. 311 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: All of these theories are going to be taken seriously, 312 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: and all of these theories are going to be acted 313 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: upon because Pattel and Bongino believe them too, and they 314 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: are now in charge. So now the White House knows 315 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: they've got these people frothing at the mouth. And back 316 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: in February they were like, let's throw a little bit 317 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: of red meat, shelby, which brings us to the binder stunt. 318 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: In a presentation at the White House on February twenty seven, 319 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, Attorney General Pam Bondi personally handed out 320 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: these like big white, oversized binders labeled the Epstein Files 321 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: colon Phase one to about fifteen right wing influencers inside 322 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: the West Wing. If you have not seen an image 323 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: or a video of this event, I really do in 324 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: you to take a look. I'll put the link down 325 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: on the show notes, because I don't think I've ever 326 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: seen an event that was more clearly a photo op stunt. 327 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: The binders are massive, and the type face on the 328 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: front of the binders that say the Epstein Files Phase one, 329 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: it's so big that it could be seen from practically 330 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: across the tree that I could see it in my 331 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: apartment in Columbia Heights, fucking miles away from the White house, right, 332 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: and so they're photographed like holding these big binders that 333 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: say Epstein Files Phase one above their heads and even 334 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: calling them Epstein Files Phase one kind of gave the 335 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: impression that this was just the beginning. There was going 336 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: to be more Epstein information being released to the public 337 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: to come. The event, which Trump, Bondie, FBI director Cash Hotel, 338 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: and JD Vance all attended, was meant to showcase these 339 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: newly declassified documents. But then these influencers get home, open 340 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: the binders and realize that all that's in them is 341 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: previously public information like public flight logs, publicly available redacted 342 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: contact lists, and old evidence lists that were already public. 343 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: The big thing was a letdown for them, and it 344 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: was obviously just as stunt and mind you, these are 345 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: maga people. They were like scamming their own people like 346 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: these were the worst of the worst, people like Chaia 347 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: Raychick of Libs of TikTok. So when they get home 348 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: and find out that these binders have nothing in them 349 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: and they've basically been scammed, it prompted instant criticism of 350 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: Pambondi and the DOJ. Jack Basobek reportedly left the event 351 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: early and later posted they flew us to DC for this. 352 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: This is pr not justice. Chaia Rachick of Libs of 353 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: TikTok posted on telegram we were promised transparency. Instead we 354 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: got a whitewashed version of the truth. DC Draino publicly 355 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: called for ag Pam Bondi's resignation and accused her of 356 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: quote running cover for elite pedophiles. What's kind of funny 357 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: is that Pam Bondi essentially blamed this whole thing on 358 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: cash Patel. Bondi released a letter to Bretel accusing the 359 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: FBI of inner appropriately withholding thousands of pages of files 360 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: related to Epstein from the DOJ and demanded the FBI 361 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: turnover the material by eight am the following day, but 362 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: no additional information ever came. Bondie said in a response 363 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: to a question from a Fox News host about Epstein's 364 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: client list that the client list is quote sitting on 365 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: my desk right now to review. So get out those 366 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: handcuffs and get ready for those purp walks, because there's 367 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: about to be a mass wave of arrests. Right This 368 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: is going to invigorate the magabas right Well, no, because 369 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: now they're saying, actually are bad. There is no Epstein 370 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: client list. They announced this on fourth of July holiday weekend, 371 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: which is a classic time to drop information you kind 372 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: of don't want people to see because everybody's on vacation. 373 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: In a memo, they said that after a systematic review 374 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: of the Epstein files, the Justice Department officials revealed no 375 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: incriminating client list, nor did they find evidence that Epstein 376 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: had blackmailed any powerful figures. And the memo reaffirmed that 377 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: Epstein died by suicide in his Brooklyn jail set while 378 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges in twenty nineteen. So 379 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: Bonnie basically said, there is no client list, Epstein died 380 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: of suicide. Nothing to see here. The administration also released 381 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: what they called raw video of surveillance footage of Epstein's 382 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: death by suicide. However, Wired recently reported that newly uncovered 383 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: metadata reveals that nearly three minutes of footage were cut 384 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: out from what the FBI and the DOJ described as 385 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: full raw surveillance video from the only functioning camera near 386 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's prison cell the night before he was found dead. 387 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: The Trump administration said that releasing this full this quote 388 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: full raw surveillance video was part of their commitment to 389 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: fully investigate his death. But given them almost three minutes 390 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: of that footage was not released, it only raised new 391 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: questions about how that footage was edited and assembled. Now 392 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: Wired had previously reported that that video had been stitched 393 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: together in Adobe Premiere Pro from two different video files, 394 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: contradicting the Justice to It's claimed that it was quote 395 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: raw footage, and now further analysis shows that one of 396 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: the source clips was approximately two minutes and fifty three 397 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: seconds longer than the segment included in the final video, 398 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: suggesting that that footage appears to have been trimmed before release. 399 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: But to be super clear, it is unclear what, if 400 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: anything at all the minutes cut from that first clip showed. 401 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: Attorney General Pambondi has attributed it to a nightly system reset. 402 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: So as you can imagine just even just hearing that, 403 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: as you can imagine being told like, oh, that missing 404 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: footage just a normal glitch in the system that happens 405 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: every night. None of this went down super well for 406 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: Trump's Cubanon true believers, because remember, these are people there 407 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: are Trump's own supporters who have made their entire personality 408 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: this stuff their entire personalities and identities in some cases 409 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: are about getting justice for kids. Some of these people 410 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: have alienated their entire families and lost lots of money 411 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: because of this pursuit. And they were told by Trump 412 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: that they could would not trust elected officials because all 413 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: of the elected officials are implicated in this and lying. 414 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: And now those same people are just saying trust us, 415 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: and his supporters are not having it. Here's some of 416 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: what they had to say. Right wing commentator Benny Johnson, 417 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: this is the worst response I've ever seen from President Trump. 418 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: Disgraced former General Michael Flynn, considered a hero at the 419 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: Cubanon movement, said Donald Trump, please understand the all caps 420 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: Epstein affair is not going away. Matt. Right wing commentator 421 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: Matt Walsh called Trump's statement extremely ob to, saying we 422 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: don't accept obvious bullshit from our political leaders. Wara Lumer, 423 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: the far right conspiracy theorist and pundit and influential Trump advisor, 424 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: accused Pam Bondy of lying and called for her to 425 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: be fired, and former Fox News host Cucker Carlson accused 426 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: Bondie of covering up crimes very serious crime. For their 427 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: own description, it seems like a lot of the heat 428 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: and ire has really been aimed at Pam Bondi, even 429 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: though it's pretty clear that she is acting on behalf 430 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: of Trump. Trump defended her, saying, Attorney General Pam Bondi, 431 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: who was doing a fantastic job all caps, we're on 432 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: one team, Maga, and I don't like what's happening. We 433 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: have a all capped, perfect administration, all caps talk of 434 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: the world, and weirdly in quotes, for some reason, selfish 435 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: people are trying to hurt it all over a guy 436 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: who never dies, Jeffrey Epstein. For years, it's Epstein over 437 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: and over again. Why are we giving publicity to files 438 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: written by Obama, Crooked Hillary, Comy Brennan, and the losers 439 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: and criminals of the Biden administration, even though side note 440 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: the theoj files were largely written in twenty nineteen when 441 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: Trump was president. But okay, more after a quick break, 442 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: let's get right back into it. So do you know 443 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,239 Speaker 1: that phrase hoisted by his own petard, the idea of 444 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: becoming ensnared in the very trap that you were setting 445 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: for someone else. I think that is kind of what's 446 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: going on here, because Trump has been exploiting all of 447 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: these conspiracy theories for years and using them to sow 448 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: distrust in government officials. Russell Murehead, a professor at Dartmouth College, 449 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: was written on the online intersection of Conspiracy Theories and Politics, 450 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: puts it this way. Nobody exploited these questions more than 451 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. And he did that because, as always he 452 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 1: wanted to paint government officials as liars, as self serving, 453 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: as people who just deserve to be fired. Well, now 454 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: the government officials are people he appointed, and now he's 455 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: saying there's nothing to see here. And Trump really leaned 456 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: in hard to those Epstein rumors when it suited him, 457 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: even so far as retweeting a post in twenty nineteen 458 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: that alleged that Bill Clinton was somehow connected to Epstein's death. 459 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: And now he is just trying to abandon all that. 460 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: Tell everybody stop doing that, stop asking me these questions, 461 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: and have us all go along with that, even after 462 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: he was the one who kicked up all this dirt 463 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: and dust around it. And I think the fact that 464 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: some of his supporters are so caught up and this 465 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: really shows how much Epstein and QAnon and conspiracy theories 466 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: in general have become intertwined with today's Republican party, like 467 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: these are not fringe attitudes or beliefs. Marjorie Taylor Green 468 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: is an open QAnon supporter, and she's not just some 469 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: kook posting on our random message board. She's in Congress 470 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: with the president's endorsement. And in many cases, I really 471 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: think that conspiracy theories like this are the glue that 472 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: holds everything together. So now that they're saying, oh no, 473 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: this conspiracy theory, it's not real, it doesn't exist, get 474 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: over it, what will be the glue that holds this 475 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: whole thing together in its absence? And I think that's 476 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: one of the reasons we're not seeing this go away 477 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: as quickly as Trump, which is that it would because 478 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: Trump is now finding out just how powerful and what 479 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: a grip conspiracy theories can have on people. You know, 480 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: Live by the sword, Die by the sword. Trump completely 481 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: melted down about this on his truth social account, basically 482 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: saying that he can't believe that anybody who wants to 483 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: talk about Epstein a hoax by Biden. Here's a bit 484 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: of what he had to say. What's going on with 485 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: my quote, boys, and in some cases gels, They're all 486 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: going after Attorney General Pam Bondi, who was doing an 487 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: all caps fantastic job Ellipses for some reason. Let's keep 488 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: it that way and not waste any capital T time 489 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: and capital E energy on Jeffrey Epstein, somebody that no 490 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: one cares about. Their new all caps scam is what 491 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax. And my 492 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,479 Speaker 1: past supporters have bought into this bullshit, hook line and sinker. 493 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work. 494 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: Don't even think about talking about our incredible and unprecedented 495 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: success because I don't even want their support anymore, which 496 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: I have to say fucking all time truth social posts 497 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: from Trump, and that is really saying something. And him 498 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: basically coming out and saying that if you are still 499 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: asking questions about Epstein, I don't even want your support, 500 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: I think is really something. Now. People have been saying 501 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: a lot that they think that this is going to 502 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: be the thing that pulls MAGO rolled apart. Can you 503 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: believe it, Jeffrey Epstein? And you might be thinking if 504 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: I think that as well? Do I think this is 505 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: going to have a lasting impact in MAGO world? Considering 506 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: that Trump has been telling his supporters that he wants 507 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: in the shop about it, and they have not shut 508 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: up about it. Honestly, I really don't think so. I 509 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,959 Speaker 1: don't know if this is just my own cynicism and 510 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: sort of resigned status to what's happening. But I think 511 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: that a lot of these people have built up so 512 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: much of their identities and their personalities around this, Like 513 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: where else would they go? Who else would enable that? 514 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: Where would all that energy go. One of my favorite 515 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: journalists who focuses on conspiracy for NBC, Brandy's ARDRONI put 516 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: it very well on a Blue Sky. She writes, We're 517 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: about to find out if get over it from a 518 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: trusted leader can pull people away from a conspiracy theory. 519 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical, but you never know. Not really sums up 520 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: how I feel about it too, And maybe we will 521 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: never know. Because House Republicans just voted down another democratic 522 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: procedural maneuver aimed at forcing the DOJ to release documents 523 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: related to Epstein. Republicans in the House voted against attaching 524 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: a Democratic amendment to another piece of legislation that would 525 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: have forced the DOJ to release the Epstein files. This 526 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: would have, had it gone through it would have forced 527 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: Pam Bondi to publish all documents related to Epstein within 528 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: thirty days. So Trump officials were trying really hard to 529 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: put this whole thing to bed. But it has not 530 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: been put to bed at all, because the Wall Street 531 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: Journal released a report that Trump may have sent Epstein 532 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: kind of a gross crewed birthday card for his fiftieth 533 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: birthday back in two thousand and three, with a hand 534 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: drawn picture of some boobs and it ends with the 535 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: words a pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and 536 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: may every day be another wonderful secret. Trump says he 537 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: never wrote it, doesn't draw pictures, doesn't talk like that, 538 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: and filed a suit against the Wall Street Journal, News Corps, 539 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch, and the two journalists responsible for the article. 540 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: And on Thursday night, Trump suddenly reversed course and instructed 541 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: Pambondi to release pertinent files on the criminal investigation into Epstein, 542 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: subject to court approval, and on Friday, Bondi filed emotion 543 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: in New York to release grand jury transcripts associated with 544 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: the Epstein case. Now, keep in mind that the Department 545 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: of Justice and the FBI still retain the bulk of 546 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: what those who are calling for transparency are really wanting 547 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: to see, and it's not even clear what, if anything, 548 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: would be potentially released in that Meanwhile, Senate Democrats sent 549 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: a letter to Bondi asking why exactly it took an 550 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: additional three months to release a summary of the findings 551 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: related to Epstein, and importantly why agents were instructed to 552 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: flag any mention of Trump and whatever they found curious. Right, 553 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: this is obviously a developing story, and no doubt there 554 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: will be more twists and turns as it continues. And 555 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to note that amidst all 556 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: this noise and all this chaos are actual voices of 557 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: actual victims and survivors, and it is incredibly important to 558 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: me that those voices do not go unheard. Daniel Benski, 559 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: who was abused by Epstein when she was a teenager 560 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, said that the decision to 561 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: close this case left her feeling like she was on 562 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: a first class flight on our refurbished Lolita Express, which 563 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: was the nickname for Epstein's private jet. Her story is 564 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: deeply heartbreaking. Her mom had a brain tumor when she 565 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: was a teenager, and an aspiring ballerina, and once she 566 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: got mixed up with Epstein. Epstein told her that he 567 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: knew the best surgeons in New York City, but that 568 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: if she wanted Epstein to help her mother, who was 569 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: dying of cancer, she would have to recruit other girls 570 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: for him, her lawyers alleged in a lawsuit. She told 571 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: The Times, it feels like the current cabinet is essentially 572 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: erasing our voices after years of bravery and work to 573 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: find our way out of silence. It's actually worse than silencing. 574 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: It's be writing a narrative as if none of us 575 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: existed in the first place. What does this teach our 576 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: children that if you are wealthy and powerful enough, you 577 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: can make anything disappear, or play the blame game and 578 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: create conspiracy theories. And I think it's a good reminder 579 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: that that truly is who matters here, and that truly 580 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: is who we are failing the actual victims and survivors 581 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: who went through something horrible and might not ever get 582 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: a sense of closure or justice, and they deserve both. 583 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or 584 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: just want to say hi, You can reach us at 585 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts 586 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No 587 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me bridget Toad. 588 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland 589 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and 590 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host, 591 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: bridget Toad. If you want to help us grow, rate 592 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 593 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: check on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 594 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.