1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cockley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: The Supreme Court limits the power of judges to check 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 2: the President. Welcome to the Friday edition of Balance of Power. 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: As the High Court rules along ideological lines today on 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: President Trump's request to call off the legal dogs, SCOTUS 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: left the fight over birthright citizenship for another day. I'm 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington. Kayley, this of 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: course one of several rulings that we've got today, and 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: the President just held forth for almost a full hour 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: in the White House briefing room and take a victory 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: lap on this. 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, celebrating this is a big win for the administration, 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: not just because it pertains to the birthright citizenship issue, 18 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 3: but also because they see this is unlocking an easier 19 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 3: path to pursuing their agenda without as much interference in 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 3: the courts, at least on a national level. The President 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 3: actually outlining a series of other priorities beyond birthright citizenship, 22 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 3: like ending funding for sanctuary cities, for example. He was 23 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 3: of course joined by the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, who 24 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 3: was quite passionate on this issue as well. It was lengthy, 25 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 3: as you say, Joe, A lot of ground was covered, 26 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 3: and Tyler Kendall was listening to the whole thing for us. 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: So let's go to her right away, live from the 28 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 3: north lawn of the White House. So Tyler, obviously, in 29 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 3: part this is about birthright citizenship, but it extends well beyond. 30 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 4: It, right exactly, Cayley, and we should say that the 31 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 4: ruling that the Supreme Court gave wasn't actually about the 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 4: legality of the executive order from this White House when 33 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 4: it comes to limiting birthright citizenship. This really was about 34 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 4: the ability for judges to implement what's known as a 35 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 4: universal injunction that would essentially curb how this executive order 36 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 4: is put into place nationwide. Now, the Court did rule 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: that they found that how this has been handled likely 38 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 4: exceeds the equitable authority that Congress has granted to federal courts. 39 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 4: So that means that this administration now has a little 40 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 4: bit more leeway here when it comes to their executive orders, 41 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 4: and that there cannot be this curb from federal judges 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 4: when it comes to these nationwide injunctions. We should also 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 4: say a lot of ground was covered in this meeting, 44 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 4: and one I will point out to is trade. President 45 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 4: Trump did say that that July ninth deadline for deals 46 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily mean that's a firm deadline. He said it 47 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 4: could be extended. He also molded the idea that it 48 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 4: could be shortened, and he said that in his view, 49 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 4: he would like to get these long awaited letters that 50 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 4: we've been waiting for out in the next week and 51 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 4: a half. Two are trading partners that would set a 52 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 4: rate on the table that they could either take or leave. 53 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 4: We're gonna have to see if that really ends up happening. 54 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 4: Considering that we have heard from other administration officials before, 55 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 4: including the Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, who today said that 56 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 4: they are expecting all the trade deals to be wrapped 57 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 4: up by Labor Day quickly. I will leave you with 58 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 4: one other point from this, which is another deadline. It's 59 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 4: the fourth deadline. We can't talk about tariffs without also 60 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 4: talking about taxes, President Trump said July fourth was an 61 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 4: important date, but it's not the end all for getting 62 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 4: his reconciliation package over at the finish line, so maybe 63 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 4: that timeline is indeed sliding. 64 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall live at the White House on a 65 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: very busy day. Tyler, Indeed, much was talked about in 66 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: that news briefing, but we want to stick with the 67 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: ruling from the Supreme Court today, specifically on judge's power 68 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: to issue nationwide injunctions. We're joined right now live from 69 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill by the ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, 70 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: of course, that is Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, and 71 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 2: Senator is great to have you back with us today 72 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Welcome to our conversation. I 73 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: know that you are not happy about this ruling. Tell 74 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: us what it means for the separation of powers in 75 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: the United States. 76 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 5: What it means, basically is the Supreme Court has created 77 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 5: a procedural mess over one of the most explicit rights 78 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 5: and conferred by the Constitution, the right for a baby 79 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 5: born in this country to be presumed to be an 80 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 5: American citizen except under extraordinary cases. So, now what this 81 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 5: Court has done and it, it's infamit. Wisdom is to 82 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 5: raise that question state by state, issue by issue. We 83 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 5: should have had a national injunction. That's where we were headed, 84 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 5: and it made sense on something that's basic. But now 85 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 5: the question is going to arise. It's in state after state. 86 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 5: If my baby a citizen in Kansas, is my baby 87 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 5: a citizen in Illinois. That mess has been left by 88 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 5: the Supreme Court, which I think will be almost impossible 89 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 5: to unscramble. 90 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 3: So, Senator, even though the Court did not explicitly decide 91 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 3: on the birthright citizenship question in this rule, and you 92 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 3: still see it as effectively having the same impact. 93 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 5: It's going to create chaos and confusion. But that has 94 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 5: been the hallmark of the Trump administration for the last 95 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 5: six months. He's issued so many executive orders trying to 96 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 5: flood the zone, as he said, to overwhelm our legal system. 97 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 5: And today he overwhelmed the Supreme Court and a majority decision, 98 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 5: which I think is going to be leading to more 99 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 5: and more chaos. 100 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: Well, the President just held a news briefing at the 101 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: White House, Senator, just before you joined us. He thanked 102 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: the court for solving what he called the injunction problem. 103 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: You wrote in a statement a short time ago that 104 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: by issuing this ruling, the Court is stating that courts 105 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 2: cannot block even the most lawless actions of the Trump 106 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: administration on a nationwide basis. Does that leave Congress then 107 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: as the only check on the executive? 108 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 5: God forbid, that's all that's left the Congress, particularly the 109 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 5: Republican majorities in the House and Senate, are willing to 110 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 5: give away all of their authority and rights under the Constitution. 111 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 5: The President has beaten him down, and they are cowered 112 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 5: by him, and unfortunately that's going to lead to more 113 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 5: and more chaos and confusion from this administration. 114 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: Senator, can you see ways around this nationwide injunction issue? You, 115 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 3: for example, widening the pool of plaintiffs bringing cases. Would 116 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 3: class action lawsuits be a way to effectively have the 117 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 3: same impact as a nationwide injunction rather than bringing one 118 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 3: individual plaintiff in one individual state. Or does this really 119 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: effectively leave the gates open for the administration to pursue 120 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 3: whatever policy they want nationally, knowing it cannot there's no 121 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 3: way for it to be withheld on a national level. 122 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 5: It's a mistake to believe that a class action is 123 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 5: just simply a procedural motion that is easily achieved. There 124 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 5: are standards that have to be met. And when you're 125 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 5: going to apply it to state after state, what about 126 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 5: the states that are not in the class. It really 127 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 5: is going to mean a divergence of rights under the 128 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 5: Constitution state by state. And you think the Supreme Court justices, 129 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 5: with all of their knowledge, some of them law school professors, 130 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 5: would have stopped and said, let's try to apply common 131 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 5: sense to this first. Let's have one standard across America 132 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 5: aside whether that standard is right or wrong. But instead 133 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 5: they left a helter skelter response to this lawsuit, which 134 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 5: is going to carry in a lot of confusion. 135 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: Helter skelter, says Dick Durbin. I'm not a lawyer, Senator, 136 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: and I don't think I ever could have been, if 137 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: I understand this correctly based on what we're talking about here. 138 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: If there's no possible nationwide injunction, can't the Supreme Court 139 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 2: then be facing thousands of cases? Do they have to 140 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: stay in session all year? 141 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 5: Well, I don't know about sticking around in session. They 142 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 5: like to take their vacations too, and they're entitled to them. 143 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 5: But they've led this to a situation where you could 144 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 5: have twenty or twenty one states joining in action before 145 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,119 Speaker 5: the Supreme Court, and then serious questions as to whether 146 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 5: the remaining states are even affected by the court decision. 147 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 5: That is, it really attacks the most fundamental questions of 148 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 5: democracy and having a unified. 149 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: Nation well, and when we can consider the layout of 150 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 3: our democracy in the disparate branches of government, of which 151 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: obviously the judicial is one. Senator putting this case together, 152 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: this nationwide injunction issue, together with previous rulings we've seen 153 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: from this Supreme Court, including the one around presidential immunity 154 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: for official acts taken in office and aggregate, what have 155 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 3: they done to the office of the executive? How much 156 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: more power has it been given? 157 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 5: Dramatic increases the courts have given more power to the presidency. 158 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 5: And as I mentioned earlier, the Republican majorities in the 159 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 5: House and Senator are loath that ever questioned Donald Trump's 160 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 5: demands for more and more authority under the Constitution. They 161 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 5: are giving away rights right and left, and I think 162 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 5: that is something that is a departure, a clear break 163 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 5: from where we are in history. When Franklin Donald Roosevelt 164 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 5: was reelected and he was sick and tired of being 165 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 5: losing in the Supreme Court. He suggested adding justices to 166 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 5: that court. The Democratic majority and the Congress, along with 167 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 5: the Republicans, said not only no, but hell no, we're 168 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 5: not going to let you do this to the court. 169 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 5: They understood the Institution of Congress has a responsibility on 170 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 5: the Constitution and they work together on a bipartisan basis 171 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 5: to protect it. These Republican leaders in the House and 172 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 5: Senate today are cowered by this president. They were afraid 173 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 5: to step back and say the obvious. The Constitution gives 174 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 5: us authorities the president doesn't have. 175 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: Well, Senator, I know that some of your colleagues are 176 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: a little bit afraid of the idea of the President 177 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: giving them a phone call this weekend about his so 178 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: called big beautiful bill. We'd love to ask your thoughts 179 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: on the reconciliation process, knowing that this timeline appears to 180 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: be sliding, and the President said just now in his 181 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: briefing at the White House that he's not wedded to 182 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: this July fourth deadline, whether it's medicaid, whatever else. The 183 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 2: parliamentarian kicks out of the bill, lack of a deal 184 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: on salt what's going to happen here? Are you planning 185 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 2: to work this weekend or did this just in July? 186 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 5: Well, I've reported for duty. I'd rather be home, I 187 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 5: can tell you that, but I have a job to 188 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 5: do out here. I've been waiting patiently for the Republicans 189 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 5: to present legislation. They can't come up with a formula 190 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 5: that is going to give enough money for more tax 191 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 5: breaks for the wealthy without cutting some fundamental things like 192 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 5: health insurance for sixteen million families, raising the cost of 193 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 5: health insurance for many others, and cutting into Medicare programs 194 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 5: which are supposed to be sacred. And because they've had 195 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 5: these problems, they've been twisting and trying to find some 196 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 5: alternative the parliamentarian will accept. Without success at that level, 197 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 5: we continue to wait and wait. But the fundamentals of 198 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 5: this proposal are just plain wrong. Three hundred and forty 199 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 5: six thousand dollars tax break for Elon Musk, for goodness sakes, 200 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 5: will even notice it. I mean, that kind of thing 201 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 5: at the expense of downstate hospitals in Kansas and Missouri 202 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 5: and Iowa and Illinois. It just doesn't make sense. 203 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: Senator, what do you and your colleagues in the minority 204 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 3: have within your power to slow down this process to 205 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 3: any extent. Will there be lots of amendments, procedural hurdles 206 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 3: thrown out, knowing that because this is reconciliation, party line 207 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 3: is the expectation here. 208 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,119 Speaker 5: We're going to give to the Republicans express specific choices 209 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 5: by amendments so the American people can see how they vote, 210 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 5: you know, just basic amendments as to whether or not 211 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 5: you really want to cut the benefits under Medicare, whether 212 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 5: or not you want to deny assistance to as I said, 213 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 5: downstate hospitals, rural hospitals, inner city hospitals, close them down 214 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 5: and make it difficult for people to find quality healthcare. 215 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 5: You know, those are going to be amendments offered by 216 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 5: the Democrats because that's part of the package of tax 217 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 5: breaks for wealthy people. 218 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: Are you hearing from any of your Republican colleagues who 219 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: have conversations in your office maybe when we're not around 220 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: Senator Durbin about their feelings on this There are a 221 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: number I could name, including Tom Tillis, of course, Rand 222 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 2: Paul and others who are very concerned about different elements 223 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 2: of this bill and at the moment, we keep hearing 224 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 2: that John Thune does not have the votes to pass it. 225 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: Could there be a coalition of Democrats like yourself and 226 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: some nervous Republicans who sink this bill. 227 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 5: It takes four senators, four Republican senators to step up 228 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 5: and say this is a bad idea and we can't 229 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 5: make it any better. We're going to step aside and 230 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 5: go back to the regular bipartisan process. We'll have to 231 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 5: give up some things that are important to us, but 232 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 5: we're going to serve the American people with the appropriations 233 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 5: that are necessary to keep our government functioning. Unfortunately, this 234 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 5: reconciliation approach has taken a long time and they've been 235 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 5: unable to resolve. 236 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 3: All right, Senator, we appreciate you joining us live from 237 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 3: Capitol Hill. Republic or excuse me, Democratic Senator Dick Durbin 238 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 3: of Illinois, of course, the ranking member of the Senate 239 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: Judiciary Committee. We very much appreciate your time, sir, and 240 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: as we consider the path forward for reconcis alliation, whether 241 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: a working weekend will be enough to get this done, 242 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 3: or if this July fourth deadline is going to be 243 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 3: not so much of the deadline we thought it was. 244 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 3: We turned to our political panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano. 245 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Politics contributors are with us. Rick Davis, of course, 246 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: Stone Court Capital partner and Republican strategist, Genie Democratic analyst 247 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: and senior Democracy fellow at the Center for the Study 248 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 3: of the Presidency and Congress. Rick, we heard the President 249 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 3: himself say today that this July fourth deadline is not 250 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 3: the end doll Is that an admission that this process 251 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 3: is not going to wrap up on the exact timeline 252 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 3: Republicans hoped it would. 253 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that he made a calculated decision not 254 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 6: to insist on this July fourth date and left it 255 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 6: open for Thune in the leadership and the House Republican 256 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 6: Caucus to have some flexibility to get a deal done. Look, 257 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 6: I mean, we know after the parliamentarian ruled some of 258 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 6: these provisions, especially related to the cuts in medicare, we're 259 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 6: going to take some time to figure out how do 260 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 6: you replace almost three hundred billion dollars in revenue that 261 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 6: you were looking to be able to use to pay 262 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 6: for this this massive bill. You know it wasn't going 263 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 6: to be around, and so I know that they've been 264 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 6: furiously cutting deals and taking things out of the bill 265 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 6: that you know may not pass muster with the parliamentarians. 266 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 6: So the reality is, you know, they they will likely 267 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 6: get a deal. I mean, I think everybody in the 268 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 6: caucus believes that they will ultimately pass a piece of 269 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 6: legislation to be called the Big Beautiful Bill. But it 270 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 6: looks like probably more in before the August recess rather 271 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 6: than the July recess. 272 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: Does that mean they get this done still with the 273 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: debt ceiling component in tact here at genie or could 274 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: this slide far enough they need democrats. Republicans need Democrats 275 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: to hash out a separate bill on dealing with avoid 276 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: a default. 277 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 7: Yeah. I don't think we know yet. I think they 278 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 7: are still hopeful they will get this done before the 279 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 7: end of July, which is what we hear is the 280 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 7: X state. But you know, they may need Democrats to 281 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 7: come along, and they're going to have to give something 282 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 7: up for that. But you know, I read the President 283 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 7: today during that press conference, and I loved how Dick 284 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 7: Durbin told you guys he was reporting for duties. So 285 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 7: I read the President to say that you know this, 286 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 7: he is acknowledging that this is probably going to slide 287 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 7: past this July fourth deadline. If for no other reason, 288 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 7: then these representatives and senators have got to get back 289 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 7: to their districts and their states. They've got to be 290 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 7: selling this bill. So far, at least by my calculation, 291 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 7: the only one who's selling it is Donald Trump. And 292 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 7: you can hear his message. If you don't do this, 293 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 7: you are going to be raising taxes on Americans. But 294 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 7: you don't hear that as much in as concerted a 295 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 7: tone from the Republicans in the House and Senate, because 296 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 7: they are all over many aspects of this bill that 297 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 7: they don't like. So they need to be selling this bill. 298 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 7: They need to get back to Washington and vote on 299 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 7: it and get it over the finish line. Because this 300 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 7: is Donald Trump's agenda. It is the only train leaving 301 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 7: the station, and if they let it go down, that 302 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 7: would be an enormous loss, not just for Donald Trump 303 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 7: but for Republicans. I can't imagine that happening. And I 304 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 7: also can't imagine anyone allowing the United States to allow 305 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 7: the debt ceiling not to be lifted or to be 306 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 7: removed as it should be. But you know, we don't 307 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 7: know for certain when that's going to be. But I 308 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 7: think Democrats would have to get along with them on 309 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 7: the debt ceiling if they don't meet this deadline of 310 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 7: July fourth. 311 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 3: Well, Rick as Genie says, members need to go home 312 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: and tell their constituents, hey, you should love this piece 313 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: of legislation. What if actually they go home and what 314 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 3: they hear from their constituents is no, we hate this legislation. 315 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 3: As polling has suggested it's not popular. Is there a 316 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 3: risk that members actually come back if they're allowed to 317 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 3: go home and say, actually, no, we're more firmly standing 318 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: our ground against the components of this package that we 319 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 3: don't agree with. 320 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting that the President address this directly and 321 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 6: talked about how people love this bill and how popular 322 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 6: it is, and that's the reason to vote for it. 323 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 6: I think one of the reasons there was so much 324 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 6: pressure to try and get this bill done by July 325 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 6: fourth is because you didn't want to go home and 326 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 6: during this long period, during the fourth of July and 327 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 6: the August recess be exposed to all these constituents who 328 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 6: are going to be showing up complaining about the cuts, 329 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 6: complaining about you know, the different provisions in this bill 330 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 6: that negatively affect them. And we've already seen pretty dicey 331 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 6: town halls with members of Congress getting attacked. So much 332 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 6: of this is a lead up to the midterm elections, 333 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 6: and the further it's behind in the rearview mirror, the 334 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 6: better chance Republicans have of sort of moving beyond it. 335 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 6: And so yeah, I think that they're going to get 336 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 6: an earful I mean, how many of these Republican They're 337 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 6: going to be walking fourth in July parades and getting 338 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 6: yelled at by people on the street. Not an optimal 339 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 6: situation to be in. And it'll be interesting to see 340 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 6: if it doesn't get done. And I'm not suggesting that 341 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 6: it's dead today. That's a long period of time between 342 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 6: July fourth and Labor Day, and that can be an 343 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 6: incredibly painful period of time. Summers are always rough on politicians, 344 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 6: and this one looks like it may be the roughest. 345 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 2: And to think that the White House is planning a 346 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: big road show. They hit the road as soon as 347 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 2: this bill has passed, with Cabinet members and other surrogates 348 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 2: planning to comb the country to tell the story about 349 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 2: what was accomplished. You wonder if that will be enough. 350 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano will be back with us. 351 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: Our political panel has a lot more to talk about, Kaylee, 352 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 2: with the Supreme Court rulings today, not specifically on birthright citizenship, 353 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: but national injunctions enough to the point where we saw 354 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: the President celebrating this morning at the White House. 355 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, with a lengthy news conference. So we'll bring you 356 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: the analysis from Rick and Jeanie up next. 357 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: On Bloomberg, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts. 358 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern 359 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 360 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 361 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 362 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 3: Kaylee lines alongside Joe Matthew Here in Washington, where we 363 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 3: have our eye on all three branches of the United 364 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: States government today. Obviously, Congress working its way toward maybe 365 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 3: passage of the Big Beautiful Bill at some point, though 366 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 3: there is a lot of work that still needs to 367 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 3: get done before then, and the July deadline, July fourth 368 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 3: deadline is looking like it may not be such a deadline. 369 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 3: After all, that's the legislative branch. Then, of course you 370 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 3: have the judicial branch. As the Supreme Court closed out 371 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: its term today by handing down its remaining decisions, including 372 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: one in particular that was a birthright citizens case citizenship case, 373 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 3: not deciding that issue, but ruling on nationwide injunctions, expectively 374 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 3: limiting the power of judges to block administrative policies on 375 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 3: a nationwide level. In that action from the judicial branch, 376 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 3: inspiring the executive branch to celebrate today as we saw 377 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 3: a long news conference at the White House with President 378 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 3: Trump alongside the Attorney General Pam Bondi Joe celebrating that rule. 379 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, fifty five minutes by my account. We brought it 380 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 2: to you live here of course on Bloomberg. President Trump 381 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: at the podium thanking the Supreme Court for, in his words, 382 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: solving his injunction problem. And that's where we start with 383 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: our political panel once again, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano 384 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: were back together Bloomberg Politics contributors and Genie. This is 385 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: something that we've talked about more than once here with 386 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: regard to the check on the executive power. You have 387 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 2: frequently called out Congress for not doing its job, and 388 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 2: you've been thankful that the courts have been there. What 389 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 2: about now? 390 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 7: I think the job is Congress says the third branch 391 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 7: should has some checks. But I actually think this decision 392 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 7: is being overread in many ways. Number One, the dire 393 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 7: warnings by many on the Democratic side and the liberal side, 394 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 7: I think are overwrought. The issue of these injunctions is 395 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 7: something that's come up in the last twenty forty years, 396 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 7: and it's something that has been used more frequently and 397 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 7: something that every president has complained about, and Donald Trump 398 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 7: is no exception to that. It is a win for 399 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 7: presidential power. It is not a win for Donald Trump 400 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 7: on birthright citizenship. And I think the most important thing 401 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 7: here is it cuts down on shopping for jurisdictions which 402 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 7: will be favorable for you, which I think is a 403 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 7: good thing. I also think it is a good thing 404 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 7: that the decision from the majority left open that in 405 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 7: some areas these injunctions, universal nationwide injunctions. 406 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 8: Can be used. 407 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 7: And Amy Cony Barrett, I've read the decision really carefully, 408 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 7: says that I wish she had gone on to agree 409 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 7: as to under what circumstances we're going to wait for 410 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 7: a lower court ruling on that. But I do think 411 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 7: there is a common sense solution here. Number one, these 412 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 7: injunctions became too widely used. 413 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 8: That is correct. 414 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 7: Number two, there are circumstances in which they are constitutional 415 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 7: and should be used, and will wait for the lower 416 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 7: courts to issue the ruling on that. So I don't 417 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 7: think this is quite as dire as we are hearing 418 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 7: from the left in particular, And it is something the 419 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 7: Democrats will use to their advantage if and when they 420 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 7: take back the White House. So a win for the presidency, 421 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 7: not for Donald Trump, and it is where the power 422 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 7: should lie. 423 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 3: Well, whether or not you view it as a win, Genie, 424 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 3: the President certainly was painting it as one in the 425 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 3: news conference. Let's hear a bit from him earlier this 426 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 3: afternoon on this decision. 427 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 9: Thanks to this decision, we can now promptly file to 428 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 9: proceed with numerous policies that have been wrongly enjoined on 429 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 9: a nationwide basis, And some of the cases we're talking 430 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 9: about would be ending birthright citizenship, which now comes to 431 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 9: the fore. 432 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 3: So, Rick, I don't know if you agree with Genie 433 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 3: on this not giving as much power to the Trump 434 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 3: administration to pursue its agenda as maybe the initial read was. 435 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: But do you expect that the president will still treat 436 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 3: it that way all the same, still pursue that actively. 437 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 8: Sure. 438 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 6: First of all, I think it does give him quite 439 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 6: a bit of power that other presidents have not exerted. 440 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 6: They've complained about the same thing that Donald Trump has 441 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 6: complained about. You know, one federal judge upsetting an entire 442 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 6: national executive decision. Yeah, seems a little out of place 443 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 6: in the way that the checks and powers are supposed 444 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 6: to be applied. But two, you know, there are two 445 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 6: hundred and fifty cases against Donald Trump and his policies. 446 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 6: So I think this will unlock a lot of capability. 447 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 6: He treats executive orders like decrees. That's kind of unique 448 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 6: in the modern presidency. Doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but 449 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 6: he considers it basically the effect of law, which is 450 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 6: unique to Congress. And so if there's any agency or 451 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 6: any group that are more likely to want to rise 452 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 6: up now and exert their authority, it should be Congress, 453 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 6: because they're the ones who make laws. But at the 454 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 6: end of the day, big win for Trump. Other presidents 455 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 6: haven't enjoyed this support from the Supreme Court like he has, 456 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 6: and this will unlock a lot of ability for him 457 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 6: to make these executive decisions, decrees, executive orders on issues 458 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 6: that he believes falls in uniquely the executive branch. 459 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 2: Ginny, you talked about forum shopping or court shopping here. 460 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: The Attorney General, Pam Bondi pointed out in that news 461 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 2: briefing that of the ninety four federal judicial districts, only 462 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: five of them, which she called liberal districts, held twenty 463 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 2: five of the thirty five nationwide injunctions. What does this 464 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 2: mean in terms of what you call a benefit here? 465 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: The system working better? 466 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 7: You know, she's looking at, you know, a restricted time period. 467 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 7: If you go back to say the Obama administration or 468 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 7: a democratic administration, the Biden administration, you will see forum 469 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 7: shopping on the right and they, you know, Republicans very 470 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 7: keen on going down to this one district in Texas 471 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 7: with one judge who's very conservative. This is what this 472 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 7: system has invited. And I would just push back a 473 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 7: little on the idea that it is only Donald Trump 474 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 7: who benefits from this. Donald Trump is not the king. 475 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 7: He will serve another three and a half years and 476 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 7: when he is out there may be a Republican, there 477 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 7: may be a Democrat in This is about the branches 478 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 7: of government and the power that they have given. This 479 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 7: branch is for the presidency, not for Donald Trump, and 480 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 7: so Republicans have to be very careful here to overread this. 481 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 7: Are they going to like it if the next Democrat 482 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 7: comes in and says I'm going to issue an EO 483 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 7: taking away all semi automatic weapons because I read Article 484 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 7: two in this way, and then that EO goes into 485 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 7: effect and they have to fight it in all ninety 486 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 7: four of these districts. They will now push back on that. 487 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 7: But the reality is is that there shouldn't be this 488 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 7: widespread use of universal or nationwide injunctions, but there should 489 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 7: be circumstances I argue, like birthright citizenship in which it 490 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 7: is used. 491 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 8: And I think if you. 492 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 7: Read the decision by the majority carefully, which is why 493 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 7: Amy Cony Barrett was chosen to write it and not 494 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 7: one of the more conservatives, she says that this may 495 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 7: be an area in which it isn't allowed, and she's 496 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 7: letting the district courts or the lower courts decide that. 497 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 7: So I do think we're going to wait and see 498 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 7: Point A period at this point. 499 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 3: Well, we spoke about the birthright citizenship issue, specifically Jeanie 500 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: with Dick Durbin, the Democratic Senator and the ranking member 501 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 3: of the Judiciary Committee, who effectively told us it's still 502 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 3: going to create chaos and confusion even if the Court 503 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 3: didn't actually take a stand on this Fourteenth Amendment oriented question, 504 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 3: is that also your expectation? 505 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 7: Absolutely? I think in this case it is a case 506 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,239 Speaker 7: in which this patchwork is absolutely unconstitutional and should not 507 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 7: be used. And that's what I mean, And I know 508 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 7: that those activist lawyers out there on the Democratic side 509 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 7: are going to work hard to try to make that 510 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 7: case to the Supreme Court. You left open exceptions here. 511 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 7: This is an exception, and Dick Durbin is absolutely right, 512 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 7: you cannot do this to parents and babies and say 513 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 7: when you were going into deliver, consider applying to a 514 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 7: class action lawsuit or challenging the court. So this is 515 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 7: a case in which I'm hopeful the moderates on the 516 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 7: Supreme Court will join with the liberals and saying it's 517 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 7: an exception and that these district court judges can issue 518 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 7: an injunction in these types of cases. But we need 519 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 7: to hear that from the Supreme Court. 520 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 2: Do you share that concern Rick, this patchwork that Senator 521 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 2: Dick Durbin describes of states when it comes to the 522 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 2: Fourteenth Amendment. 523 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 6: You know, I think there's always been a bit of 524 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 6: a patchwork response in the federal judiciary. Obviously, all these 525 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 6: courts differ in ideology and geography, and you're going to 526 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 6: get different rulings. And that's why the appellate business, the 527 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 6: appellate structure is there to iron out some of that patchwork, 528 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 6: and ultimately, if it's not ironed up, it gets to 529 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 6: the Supreme Court. And we've seen action on behalf of 530 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 6: the Supreme Court actively since this president got elected to 531 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 6: deal with exactly these things. The bad news for us 532 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 6: is these things are done on the shadow docket. We 533 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 6: rarely get much of an explanation. This is one of 534 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 6: the few that have actually come with a written opinion 535 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 6: to give us some guidance on the thinking of the 536 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 6: Supreme Court. And so at the end of the day, 537 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 6: I think your question to Sarah Durbin was the right one. 538 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 6: Which doesn't this mean we're going to get a lot 539 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 6: more action at the Supreme Court and it is likely 540 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 6: to have a lot of impact with the activities of 541 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 6: these cases now all going up to the appellate level 542 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 6: and maybe beyond. But at the end of the day, 543 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 6: the Supreme Court is the final arbiter and that irons 544 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 6: out a lot of the patchwork that exists below them. 545 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 3: Well, and of course, it wasn't just this case that 546 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,239 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court made it a ruling on today. There 547 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 3: were a number of others, including of course a case 548 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 3: around religious rights and books in classrooms in Maryland that 549 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: families weren't notified of when it comes to LGBTQ, writes Rick, 550 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 3: do you view any of those other cases that the 551 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 3: Court decided on today is surprising or highly influential in 552 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: terms of the way in which this country moves forward. 553 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 6: Well, I think with this debate we've had about wocism 554 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 6: in the political sphere now for quite some time and 555 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 6: really evolved during the last presidential election. This decision on 556 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 6: letting parents opt out, you know, as it relates to 557 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 6: some of the content in schools, could have a really 558 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 6: profound impact and frankly shift a lot of power to 559 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 6: parents in the public school system and away from administrators 560 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 6: and teachers. So you knew that was going to happen 561 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 6: in some shape or form in this administration as it 562 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 6: went along. And I think this is the first real 563 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 6: dynamic decision by the Court that says, you know, parents 564 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 6: are going to decide on content, and I think it 565 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 6: could have far reaching impacts, not just on LGBT issues, 566 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 6: but also other issues that parents brailed about for some time. 567 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 3: All Right, Rick Davis and Jeanie schanzeno our political panel. 568 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: On this Friday, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of 569 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and five 570 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: pm Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the 571 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon 572 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: Alexa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa 573 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 574 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: Now we knew this was going to be coming here, 575 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 2: we didn't know what the Supreme Court was going to 576 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: tell us. President Trump saying thanks to the scoutis for 577 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 2: solving the injunction problem. As he put it, we can 578 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:43,959 Speaker 2: now proceed, he said, with policies wrongly enjoined. Indeed, the 579 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 2: Supreme Court curbing these nationwide blocks, these injunctions that have 580 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: made life difficult for President Trump to of course carry 581 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: out his full agenda here Bloomberg News report. The court 582 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: limited the power of judges to block the president's policies nationwide, 583 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: realizing that this stemmed from the debate and in fact, 584 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 2: the lawsuit over birthright citizenship. The court left the fight 585 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 2: over restrictions on that automatic citizenship to be had for 586 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 2: another day, left that fight unresolved, and this is where 587 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: we start our conversation with Robert mcwurder. It's the first 588 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 2: phone call we made knowing that this was going to 589 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 2: be the last day here and that we had some 590 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: big ones coming. Constitutional lawyer, practicing criminal defense, civil rights 591 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 2: lawyer joining us from Maricopa County, founder of the law 592 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: office of Robert mcwerder. You've been very generous with your time, Robert. 593 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: It's great to see you. You listen to that whole 594 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 2: ROMP along with our viewers and listeners. With regard to 595 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: this ruling, to what extent does this impact the separation 596 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: of powers? 597 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 8: Well, what it. 598 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 10: Does is it takes away a lot of the power 599 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 10: of the courts to help people affect their constitution rights. 600 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 10: It allows any president to do something blatantly unconstitutional and 601 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 10: not have the court be able to enjoin all similar people. 602 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 10: You can maybe get an injunction for your individual case, 603 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 10: but there are thousands of people that put presidential policies effect, 604 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 10: and really you should really do kind of a sauce 605 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 10: for the goose argument, sauce for the goose, the sauce 606 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 10: for the gander. You know, democratics, people will be presidents 607 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 10: and they will issue orders and now other people can 608 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 10: enjoin them. There was a lot of injunctions issued against 609 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 10: the Biden administration and the Obama administration, and now those 610 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 10: are gone. So you know, the Trump people may be 611 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 10: waving little flags and seeing how great it is for them, 612 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 10: but this is not good for individual people who want 613 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 10: to assert their rights when a president does something unconstitutional, and. 614 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 2: It will come around to the other party. Robert the 615 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 2: Attorney General, spoke alongside President Trump in the briefing room today, 616 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 2: pointing out that there were ninety four federal judicial districts. 617 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 2: Pam Bondi said, five of those districts twenty five of 618 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 2: the nationwide injunctions, five liberal districts in this country. Does 619 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 2: she have a point? 620 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 8: Not? 621 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 10: Really, what's going on here is those happen to have 622 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 10: just been the five where the cases were brought. Now 623 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 10: there is a certain amount of what's called forum shopping 624 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 10: that goes plaintiffs. In fact, the people who are kind 625 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 10: of trying to prevent Joe Biden's immigration policies went down 626 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 10: to one district judge in South Texas. So that does 627 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 10: go on. But you know, an injunction can be appealed 628 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 10: to the Circuit Court and ultimately the Supreme Court. And 629 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 10: so it's not like if you have an injunction against you, 630 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 10: you don't have another avenue for redress or didn't have 631 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 10: an avenue. And really, what the number of injunctions against 632 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 10: the Trump regime has much more to do with the 633 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 10: unconstitutionality of their actions, not that there's some kind of 634 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 10: judicial conspiracy from these quote unquote liberal judges, many who 635 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 10: were Republican appointed and even some Trump appointees. 636 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 8: It has nothing to do with that. 637 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 10: It has to do with the fact that these are 638 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 10: very questionable actions under the constitution that the Trump regime 639 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 10: is doing. That's the issue. 640 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,919 Speaker 2: So six three along ideological lines to be clear here, 641 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 2: Robert Macwerder, But what is it Is there an irony 642 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 2: here that I'm feeling that this Supreme Court is so 643 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 2: willing to limit the power of the courts. 644 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it is. And really, given some of 645 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 10: the justices, you really have to question whether this was 646 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 10: the Obama administration or the Biden administration that would have 647 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 10: brought it, or a future Democratic presidential administration, whether that 648 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,919 Speaker 10: ideological divide would have been the same. In other words, 649 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 10: some of the justices that are jumping in in this 650 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 10: situation pro Trump, would they have gone the other way 651 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 10: if it was a different president? And I think that 652 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 10: has to be really a question asked of some of 653 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 10: these justices who ruled in favor today of Donald Trump, 654 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 10: and I think it questions their judicial consistency. So you 655 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 10: know they've just this, Yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry. 656 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 2: Justice Amy Coney Barrett writing, federal courts do not exercise 657 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 2: general oversight of the executive branch, Robert She says, they 658 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 2: resolve cases and controversies consistent with the authority Congress has 659 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 2: given them. I suspect that you would agree with that. 660 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 2: But are their nuances here that we need to bring forth? 661 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 2: And if this is the case, that means Congress would 662 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 2: need to do its job as a check on the 663 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 2: executive And I'm not sure we're going to hold our 664 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 2: breath for that to happen, are we now? 665 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 10: I think you're absolutely right. Look to get into the 666 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 10: weeds of this. In seventeen eighty nine, Congress passed the 667 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 10: judiciary almost you know, two hundred years ago, over twenty 668 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 10: years ago, and they provided for the power of the 669 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 10: courts to issue different things. Most of their work. The 670 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 10: practice of nationwide injunctions have come and developed over decades, 671 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 10: and this became a practice that many groups sought nationwide injunctions. 672 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 8: But again, a nationwide. 673 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 10: Junction was never a decision on the merits. It just says, look, 674 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 10: let's stop the unconstitutional thing you may be doing and 675 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 10: give us time to decide the case before in this instance, 676 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 10: you start taking away the birthright citizenship of babies. 677 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 8: That's literally what this question is before the court. 678 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 10: Now they didn't answer birth right side, but you know, 679 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 10: the fourteenth Amendment is very clear. I think the administration 680 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 10: will lose on this, but in the interim, let's not 681 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 10: let the administration do terrible things to babies who were 682 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 10: born in this country to parents who are not US citizens. 683 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 8: And that's gone away. 684 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 10: Now, that power and that right to seek address to 685 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 10: stop unconstitutional things before we decide the merits is gone. 686 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 5: Wow. 687 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 2: The fourteenth Amendment indeed ratified in eighteen sixty eight. I 688 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 2: think the President said eighteen sixty nine or whatever, indeed 689 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: is what this is really wrap around here, Robert and 690 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 2: the Court decided to hold off on ruling directly on 691 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 2: birthright citizenship. Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, said, that's going 692 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 2: to come up in a separate case in October. What's 693 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 2: going to happen. 694 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 10: Here, Well, I can't imagine the Core will change it. 695 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 10: And by the way, you were right, it was eighteen 696 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 10: sixty eight. It was not eighteen sixty nine. Whenever, it 697 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 10: was eighteen sixty eight. Look, the argument that gets made 698 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 10: is that this was just intended to assure citizenship for 699 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 10: former slaves and overturning the dred Scott decision of eighteen 700 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 10: fifty eight, which was of course a terrible blight on 701 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 10: the Supreme Court, a terrible decision. But they also intended 702 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 10: it to implement what was the common law in the 703 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 10: United States, which was birthright citizenship since the time of 704 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 10: the founding. If you were born here, you were always 705 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 10: a citizen. And the Fourteenth Amendment reaffirmed that I always 706 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 10: give one of what could be thousands of examples, if 707 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 10: not millions, the men who fought in the Irish Brigade 708 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 10: in the Civil War for the Union at the Battle 709 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 10: of Gettysburg and other places. Those men knew that their 710 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 10: children were US citizens when they were born here, and 711 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 10: the Fourteenth Amendment as much recognized the rights of their 712 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 10: children as it did the rights of black people who 713 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 10: had been freed from slavery and the children that black 714 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 10: people were citizens as well. 715 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 8: That's what was the intent of the fourteenth Amendment. That 716 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 8: applies to all of us. 717 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 10: They do process clause, equal protection clauses that applies to 718 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 10: all of us, and we have a better country for it. 719 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 8: And so the argument that somehow it. 720 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 10: Just related to black people after eighteen sixty eight is 721 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 10: I think just spurious fascinating. 722 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 2: Could you not listen to Robert mcwater all day long? 723 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: Someday I need to get a beer with Robert mcwater, 724 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 2: or someday I'm going to find a way to get 725 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 2: in trouble so i can hire Robert mcwater. It's great 726 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 2: to have you back, Robert. Thank you so much for 727 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 2: taking the time to distill all of this and for 728 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 2: surviving in nearly hour long news briefing that walked us 729 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 2: into this moment in time. Our constitutional lawyer, practicing criminal defense, 730 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 2: civil rights lawyer joining us from Maricopa County, Robert mcwater, 731 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: who's been there for us for years, here at moments 732 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: like this to speak in real terms, to break down 733 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 2: the legalies so we understand the political side of the 734 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 2: legal ruling. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 735 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 736 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 737 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 738 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.