WEBVTT - Using Oil-Industry Tech to Create Clean Energy 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:22.596 Pushkin. In the first years of this century, there was 0:00:22.636 --> 0:00:25.996 a wave of technological innovation in the way people get 0:00:26.036 --> 0:00:29.396 oil and gas out of the ground. It was popularly 0:00:29.436 --> 0:00:32.716 referred to as fracking, but in fact fracking had been 0:00:32.716 --> 0:00:35.436 around for a long time. What was going on was 0:00:35.516 --> 0:00:39.036 a combination of techniques that people in the industry called 0:00:39.116 --> 0:00:42.956 the shale revolution. This boom brought down the price of 0:00:43.036 --> 0:00:46.396 natural gas, and it turned the United States into the 0:00:46.436 --> 0:00:51.676 world's biggest producer of oil and gas. It also arguably 0:00:51.956 --> 0:00:56.196 extended human being's ability to live in a fossil fuel 0:00:56.356 --> 0:01:00.676 powered world, slowed the transition to carbon free energy, and 0:01:00.756 --> 0:01:06.396 so made climate change worse. But what if you could 0:01:06.436 --> 0:01:11.236 take the technological innovations of the shale revolution and use 0:01:11.316 --> 0:01:14.796 them to generate a different kind of energy, energy that's 0:01:14.876 --> 0:01:18.036 carbon free energy, that helps get the world off of 0:01:18.116 --> 0:01:26.956 fossil fuels. I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, 0:01:27.036 --> 0:01:29.196 the show where I talk to people who are trying 0:01:29.236 --> 0:01:33.436 to make technological progress. My guest today is Tim Latimer. 0:01:33.756 --> 0:01:37.796 He's the co founder and CEO of Fervo Energy. Tim's 0:01:37.796 --> 0:01:40.996 problem is this, how do you use innovations from the 0:01:40.996 --> 0:01:46.276 oil and gas industry to generate carbon free energy. Tim 0:01:46.316 --> 0:01:49.036 told me he started his career deep in the heart 0:01:49.396 --> 0:01:50.436 of the shale revolution. 0:01:52.316 --> 0:01:54.996 I grew up in Texas and then I went to 0:01:54.996 --> 0:01:59.516 college at the University of Tulsa, both places where you know, 0:01:59.556 --> 0:02:01.716 sort of the oil and gas industries in the blood 0:02:01.756 --> 0:02:06.796 of the people here. And I happened to graduate at 0:02:06.836 --> 0:02:11.476 the very advent of the US oil and gas shale boom. 0:02:12.796 --> 0:02:16.076 And I think probably almost everybody I knew went into 0:02:16.116 --> 0:02:18.276 the oil and gas industry out of my college class 0:02:18.396 --> 0:02:20.796 as kind of a consequence of it being a boom 0:02:20.836 --> 0:02:23.756 time in Oklahoma. And so I took a job back 0:02:23.796 --> 0:02:26.596 in what was my original hometown of Houston, started my 0:02:26.636 --> 0:02:30.076 career as a drilling engineer, and in that role, I 0:02:30.116 --> 0:02:33.476 mostly worked out on the rigs themselves as a site supervisor. 0:02:33.516 --> 0:02:35.596 So I've spent the majority of my time with the 0:02:35.596 --> 0:02:39.236 oil field, either in South Texas or West Texas, supervising 0:02:39.556 --> 0:02:40.436 field crews. 0:02:40.996 --> 0:02:43.596 So what was the turn? Why aren't you still doing that? 0:02:44.596 --> 0:02:47.556 You know, it's interesting even when I joined the industry, 0:02:47.796 --> 0:02:50.676 already had some questions about, you know, what is the 0:02:50.676 --> 0:02:53.436 future in this industry in a world where we all 0:02:53.476 --> 0:02:55.756 know that climate change is a much more serious energet 0:02:55.756 --> 0:02:59.596 problem than we had previously understood. And so what I 0:02:59.716 --> 0:03:01.996 found is that the more time I spent in the industry, 0:03:02.076 --> 0:03:05.156 the more passionate I was about climate change, and the 0:03:05.276 --> 0:03:09.236 less I was seeing the industry adapt around me the 0:03:09.236 --> 0:03:12.036 way I thought was necessary to face the urgent crisis 0:03:12.036 --> 0:03:12.556 of climate. 0:03:12.916 --> 0:03:15.596 So what's the move? What do you do? Well? 0:03:15.636 --> 0:03:19.996 I was looking at clean energy, and I thought what 0:03:20.436 --> 0:03:23.396 can I do? And so when I looked at solar 0:03:23.476 --> 0:03:26.996 or wind or automotive, I thought, you know, in electric vehicles. 0:03:26.996 --> 0:03:29.236 I thought, these are all important things, but what do 0:03:29.316 --> 0:03:32.036 I have to add there? And so I was always 0:03:32.116 --> 0:03:34.796 kind of looking for my move. And then actually an 0:03:34.876 --> 0:03:37.476 early project I worked on when I was a drilling 0:03:37.516 --> 0:03:40.596 engineer in South Texas. The wells we were drilling are 0:03:40.596 --> 0:03:43.676 actually a little bit higher temperature than normal oil and 0:03:43.716 --> 0:03:46.916 gas wells, and so one of my first jobs was, hey, 0:03:46.956 --> 0:03:51.636 research how we can make high temperature drilling work. And 0:03:51.876 --> 0:03:54.836 all of the literature I found on researching high temperature 0:03:54.876 --> 0:03:57.556 drilling came from this field called geothermal, and this was 0:03:57.636 --> 0:04:00.036 about a decade ago, and to be honest, I'd never 0:04:00.036 --> 0:04:02.196 heard of geothermal before at that point in time, and 0:04:03.956 --> 0:04:05.956 I read more about it, and it was like, Oh, 0:04:05.956 --> 0:04:08.476 you drill wells, but you just produce steam and you 0:04:08.516 --> 0:04:11.636 make carbon free electricity from it. And that's where I 0:04:11.636 --> 0:04:14.196 became incredibly excited about the opportunity. I was like, wait, 0:04:14.236 --> 0:04:15.836 I can do what I already know how to do, 0:04:16.996 --> 0:04:20.236 but for a carbon free and sustainable energy resource, and 0:04:20.276 --> 0:04:22.036 that to me just seemed too good of an opportunity 0:04:22.036 --> 0:04:22.636 to pass up. 0:04:22.996 --> 0:04:25.436 Yeah. I mean, one of the most interesting things to 0:04:25.476 --> 0:04:28.436 me about what you're trying to do at a certain 0:04:28.516 --> 0:04:34.356 level is you're trying to take this innovation that came 0:04:34.476 --> 0:04:37.156 out of the fossil fuel industry, probably the most important 0:04:37.156 --> 0:04:39.276 innovation of the twenty first century in the fossil fuel 0:04:39.316 --> 0:04:43.476 industry right and use it to get energy without fossil fuels, 0:04:43.476 --> 0:04:45.396 to move us away from fossil fuels. Is there something 0:04:45.396 --> 0:04:47.396 really elegant about that? 0:04:48.036 --> 0:04:50.676 There is, and that was something that always appealed to 0:04:50.676 --> 0:04:52.836 me in the job of oil and gas. I mean, honestly, 0:04:52.876 --> 0:04:56.036 if it wasn't for climate change and sustainability challenges, I 0:04:56.036 --> 0:04:58.156 would have never left that career because it's a very 0:04:58.156 --> 0:05:01.276 exciting thing. You're working with really bright people and solving 0:05:01.316 --> 0:05:03.756 major technical challenges and one of the things that was 0:05:03.796 --> 0:05:07.556 exciting for me is a decade ago, the advent of 0:05:07.596 --> 0:05:10.556 things like horizontal drilling was still so new that the 0:05:10.556 --> 0:05:13.036 innovations were coming out fast and furious. You know, when 0:05:13.076 --> 0:05:15.196 you work in the field, I was working a two 0:05:15.196 --> 0:05:17.356 week on, two week off rotation. You know, you go 0:05:17.396 --> 0:05:18.076 live on the rig for. 0:05:18.116 --> 0:05:20.276 Two out you live on an oil rig, yeah. 0:05:20.356 --> 0:05:21.876 Yep, and then you have two weeks off. And the 0:05:21.956 --> 0:05:23.836 number of times I came back from my two weeks 0:05:23.876 --> 0:05:25.876 off and there was a new piece of equipment out there, 0:05:26.236 --> 0:05:28.876 or a new function or a new software program that 0:05:28.956 --> 0:05:32.076 had been developed in our time off was just shocking. 0:05:32.116 --> 0:05:33.796 It was just so invigorating to work in a place 0:05:33.836 --> 0:05:37.956 where the technology advancement was happening so rapidly. And so 0:05:38.636 --> 0:05:40.796 that's one of the things that clicked for me whenever 0:05:40.876 --> 0:05:43.916 I looked at geothermal is geothermal is an industry that 0:05:44.036 --> 0:05:47.276 historically has been much smaller than oil and gas, and 0:05:47.316 --> 0:05:49.116 they just don't drill as much many wells as oil 0:05:49.156 --> 0:05:52.356 and gas. And for a variety of reasons. Right when 0:05:52.356 --> 0:05:55.236 the shale boom and fracking was taking off for oil 0:05:55.276 --> 0:05:58.956 and gas in America fifteen years ago, it became a 0:05:58.956 --> 0:06:02.076 really tough market for geothermal. So right when the drilling 0:06:02.116 --> 0:06:05.396 technology breakthroughs were coming fast and furious, no one was 0:06:05.396 --> 0:06:09.276 actually drilling geothermal wells anymore because of economic challenges. So 0:06:10.156 --> 0:06:13.716 I think as a result, there wasn't this technology transfer, 0:06:13.836 --> 0:06:17.436 this natural dissemination of information from oil and gas drilling 0:06:17.516 --> 0:06:20.636 to geothermal drilling. And I started looking at things like 0:06:20.716 --> 0:06:24.876 the cost assumptions that went into what people thought it 0:06:24.916 --> 0:06:27.796 would cost to drill geothermal well and I realized that 0:06:27.796 --> 0:06:33.396 they were somewhat frozen in time from before the advent 0:06:33.556 --> 0:06:36.196 of the shale boom, and as a result, it was 0:06:36.316 --> 0:06:40.436 using performance targets that were a decade too old, and 0:06:40.636 --> 0:06:43.036 with as fast as the innovation was happening in our sector, 0:06:43.316 --> 0:06:46.396 a decade too old and it was ten times too conservative. 0:06:46.916 --> 0:06:48.356 Huh. It would be like if you were trying to 0:06:48.356 --> 0:06:50.996 build something with AI right now and we're sort of 0:06:51.276 --> 0:06:55.196 using assumptions about AI five years ago or something exactly. 0:06:55.236 --> 0:06:56.996 To give you an example of that, you know, when 0:06:57.036 --> 0:06:58.996 you think about the year Tesla was founded in two 0:06:59.036 --> 0:07:02.356 thousand and three, nobody, not the big automotive companies, not 0:07:02.436 --> 0:07:06.316 the Department of Energy, No one assumed that electric vehicles 0:07:06.356 --> 0:07:08.116 were going to actually be a meaningful part of the 0:07:08.196 --> 0:07:10.836 energy mix. And the big reason was that they thought 0:07:10.996 --> 0:07:13.756 the battery storage was going to be too expensive. And 0:07:13.796 --> 0:07:15.796 you know what, if we had to start an industry 0:07:15.836 --> 0:07:19.036 from scratch where the only use case for batteries was 0:07:20.156 --> 0:07:22.956 electric vehicles, it would have never come down the cost curve. 0:07:23.276 --> 0:07:25.196 But what happened in the nineties. We came out with 0:07:25.196 --> 0:07:28.036 cell phones and laptops, and all of a sudden, lithium 0:07:28.116 --> 0:07:32.876 ion batteries got incredibly cheap and incredibly high quality because 0:07:32.916 --> 0:07:36.676 there was a huge manufacturing production system that grew up 0:07:36.716 --> 0:07:39.356 around providing a nice battery for your laptop and phone. 0:07:39.796 --> 0:07:42.956 And so the innovation Tesla had was, OK, everybody was 0:07:43.076 --> 0:07:48.356 using decade old assumptions on battery technology, but there's been 0:07:48.356 --> 0:07:51.836 a boom in battery technology driven by consumer electronics. What 0:07:51.876 --> 0:07:53.316 if we just tape them all together and put them 0:07:53.316 --> 0:07:55.996 in a car. And so it's amazing how often you 0:07:56.036 --> 0:08:00.236 see innovations where you know, if geothermal had to completely 0:08:00.236 --> 0:08:03.356 reinvent the way that wells were drilled to be successful, 0:08:03.636 --> 0:08:05.876 it'd be really tough to do. But whenever we can 0:08:05.916 --> 0:08:08.036 look at an industry like oil and gas that drills 0:08:08.116 --> 0:08:10.716 one hundred times as many way else the geothermal industry does, 0:08:11.076 --> 0:08:13.796 and then cherry pick the innovations from that to advance 0:08:13.836 --> 0:08:17.756 our cost curve forward. It can be have dramatic results. 0:08:18.636 --> 0:08:23.516 So let's talk a little bit about geothermal energy. I mean, 0:08:24.276 --> 0:08:26.316 what it is is kind of right there in the name, 0:08:26.396 --> 0:08:29.116 but let's start there. Anyways, what's geothermal energy? 0:08:29.916 --> 0:08:32.876 Yeah, the name, you know, basically means earth and hot, 0:08:32.916 --> 0:08:35.636 and that's sort of the basic premise of what we're 0:08:35.676 --> 0:08:38.476 going for. You know, the world is very big, and 0:08:38.516 --> 0:08:40.436 the world is very hot, and the deeper you go, 0:08:40.596 --> 0:08:44.916 the hotter it gets, and so you know, the energy 0:08:44.956 --> 0:08:47.156 content in the heat of the Earth is so large 0:08:47.196 --> 0:08:51.836 that it's essentially inexhaustible. And so geothermal really has been 0:08:51.876 --> 0:08:54.116 around for millennia. You know, you can go and visit 0:08:54.196 --> 0:08:58.316 these you know, Roman baths all over Europe or elsewhere 0:08:58.436 --> 0:09:00.916 that were built on thermal hot springs, and if you 0:09:00.956 --> 0:09:03.396 think about it, that's geothermal energy at work. You're swimming 0:09:03.436 --> 0:09:06.276 in a nice heated pool because the hot water is 0:09:06.716 --> 0:09:08.796 flowing up from the heat of the Earth. And then 0:09:08.796 --> 0:09:11.916 around one hundred years ago in Italy, actually in Tuscany, 0:09:12.356 --> 0:09:15.956 the very first geothermal power project worked where some a 0:09:15.996 --> 0:09:18.476 brilliant team came up with the idea that, you know, 0:09:18.476 --> 0:09:20.316 if there's steam coming out of the ground because it's 0:09:20.316 --> 0:09:22.476 really hot here, what if we use that to power 0:09:22.516 --> 0:09:26.236 a turbine and make electricity. So the first ever electricity 0:09:26.276 --> 0:09:28.996 from geothermal came from tapping into some of these natural 0:09:29.356 --> 0:09:32.436 steam vents over one hundred years ago. And that's sort 0:09:32.436 --> 0:09:35.396 of the idea of geothermal as it's advanced. You know, 0:09:35.716 --> 0:09:37.836 you know, the number of spots where steam literally comes 0:09:37.836 --> 0:09:39.756 out of the ground on its own is a little 0:09:39.756 --> 0:09:43.836 bit limited. So people began using the idea of drilling 0:09:43.956 --> 0:09:46.276 and so starting back in New Zealand and the northern 0:09:46.276 --> 0:09:49.796 California in like the nineteen fifties and sixties, people started 0:09:49.876 --> 0:09:53.036 drilling wells in areas where they knew the geology was hotter, 0:09:53.436 --> 0:09:57.156 which replaces that are basically so hot that steam is practically, 0:09:57.236 --> 0:09:58.756 you know, bursting to come out of the ground, and 0:09:58.796 --> 0:10:01.276 then you drill into those areas. And that was really 0:10:01.276 --> 0:10:04.996 what the industry took off on, and you know, began 0:10:05.156 --> 0:10:07.836 sixty years ago with that kind of geothermal development, and 0:10:07.876 --> 0:10:10.916 it's progressed now to be and twenty five countries all 0:10:10.956 --> 0:10:13.676 over the world there's twenty five countries more that have 0:10:13.716 --> 0:10:17.876 geothermal projects and development. As a total percentage of the 0:10:18.356 --> 0:10:20.156 energy mix, it's less than one percent of the world 0:10:20.276 --> 0:10:24.356 energy mix, so it's still not huge, but it's really 0:10:24.396 --> 0:10:26.276 meaningful in certain markets. 0:10:26.276 --> 0:10:29.996 Like there just aren't that many places where everything lines 0:10:30.116 --> 0:10:33.236 up so that with this sort of twentieth century technology 0:10:33.676 --> 0:10:36.316 you can get energy from the heat of the earth 0:10:36.356 --> 0:10:39.036 in an efficient and useful way. Right, it's quite limited 0:10:39.116 --> 0:10:39.556 in the end. 0:10:39.876 --> 0:10:44.196 Exactly exactly what we found with geothermal is that as 0:10:44.196 --> 0:10:48.436 we tapped those really low hanging fruit resources and stuff 0:10:48.436 --> 0:10:51.356 that was shallow and hot and highly productive. As we 0:10:51.396 --> 0:10:54.236 tapped that and we tried to move to deeper resources 0:10:54.276 --> 0:10:56.356 that maybe wouldn't flow as much or not be as hot, 0:10:56.916 --> 0:10:59.316 the technology wasn't there to be able to still produce 0:10:59.356 --> 0:11:02.516 that power and to do so economically, because drilling is 0:11:02.796 --> 0:11:04.956 costs are very dependent by how deep you have to go. 0:11:05.756 --> 0:11:09.516 And as we started tapping the shallow geothermal resources and 0:11:09.556 --> 0:11:11.796 having to move on to the deep ones, the technology 0:11:11.796 --> 0:11:15.636 couldn't keep up, and those deeper resources became uneconomics. So 0:11:15.716 --> 0:11:17.676 the industry, at least in the United States kind of 0:11:17.676 --> 0:11:21.156 stalled out. In the nineties, once these natural hotspots had 0:11:21.196 --> 0:11:24.996 been tapped and really really had been a bit of 0:11:24.996 --> 0:11:26.636 a period of stagnation ever since then. 0:11:27.076 --> 0:11:29.276 And I understand that by the time you wanted to 0:11:29.316 --> 0:11:33.476 start a company, you know, to make geothermal energy, harvest 0:11:33.516 --> 0:11:37.076 geothermal energy, it was sort of out of fashion, right, 0:11:37.236 --> 0:11:39.156 People had kind of given up. 0:11:39.716 --> 0:11:41.876 It was very much out of fashion. And so early 0:11:41.916 --> 0:11:43.716 on I was looking for funding. And I remember going 0:11:43.716 --> 0:11:47.916 to an investor conference, an energy investor conference, and I 0:11:47.956 --> 0:11:49.596 walked up to somebody that I knew was a big 0:11:49.596 --> 0:11:53.116 investor in the space, and I introduced myself to him, 0:11:53.116 --> 0:11:55.636 and this would have been about twenty seventeen, and I said, Hey, 0:11:55.676 --> 0:11:58.436 I'm Tim. I'm working on Fervo Energy. It's a startup 0:11:58.436 --> 0:12:01.276 I co founded that does geothermal energy. And he holds 0:12:01.276 --> 0:12:03.636 his hand up and says, I'm going to stop you 0:12:03.716 --> 0:12:06.436 right there and save us both some time. I'm not 0:12:06.516 --> 0:12:10.236 interested in geothermal energy. Thanks for the converse, and walked away. 0:12:12.156 --> 0:12:14.076 And that was a lot of the sentiment around what, 0:12:14.356 --> 0:12:17.236 you know, what what was the future for geothermal is is? 0:12:17.316 --> 0:12:18.876 That was sort of the reaction that we got on 0:12:19.036 --> 0:12:21.356 energy conferences. It was a bit of a bit of 0:12:21.356 --> 0:12:22.516 a punchline. 0:12:22.636 --> 0:12:24.596 Because people had tried it and it seemed like it 0:12:24.636 --> 0:12:30.796 didn't work exactly. So how do you how do you 0:12:30.956 --> 0:12:33.156 how do you get going in that environment? How do 0:12:33.156 --> 0:12:34.836 you get from the guy putting his hand in your 0:12:34.836 --> 0:12:36.676 face to actually building a company? 0:12:36.836 --> 0:12:39.756 I realized that there was such a gap between how 0:12:39.836 --> 0:12:42.116 quickly the technology for drilling had advanced an oil on 0:12:42.156 --> 0:12:44.276 gas and what the geothermal industry was used to that 0:12:44.276 --> 0:12:47.236 people just didn't know what the performance was really like. 0:12:47.316 --> 0:12:49.956 And I remember having some very bizarre conversations where people 0:12:50.236 --> 0:12:53.436 would tell me things like you can't drill horizontally, and 0:12:53.476 --> 0:12:56.636 I'm like, I just got off a rig, you know, 0:12:56.636 --> 0:12:58.996 a few weeks ago where that's what I was doing, 0:12:59.036 --> 0:13:00.956 and we were doing it for the thousandth time, like, 0:13:01.396 --> 0:13:03.756 and it was just amazing the gap and understanding of 0:13:03.756 --> 0:13:06.796 technology there, and so I knew we were onto something. 0:13:07.196 --> 0:13:10.076 Do you think part of that is like the culture gap? 0:13:10.316 --> 0:13:13.316 I mean that even if the technical skills are kind 0:13:13.316 --> 0:13:17.436 of overlapping, the culture gap between people who were fracking 0:13:17.476 --> 0:13:19.836 on an oil rig in West Texas or whatever and 0:13:19.836 --> 0:13:21.876 the people who are trying to geothermal start up in 0:13:21.956 --> 0:13:24.436 Northern California, they're just not talking to each other, because 0:13:24.476 --> 0:13:25.956 why would they No. 0:13:26.116 --> 0:13:28.516 I think that's I think that I think there's a 0:13:28.516 --> 0:13:30.956 lot of that. You know, one piece of advice I 0:13:30.996 --> 0:13:34.276 got from a mentor early on who'd invested in a 0:13:34.276 --> 0:13:36.956 bunch of different sectors is that if you want to 0:13:36.996 --> 0:13:38.596 be the leader in a sector, you need to be 0:13:38.636 --> 0:13:41.476 at the geographic center of where that sector works. You know, 0:13:41.476 --> 0:13:44.076 if you're starting an AI company, you're probably going to 0:13:44.076 --> 0:13:46.116 be really well served to be in the Bay Area. 0:13:46.196 --> 0:13:49.236 If you're starting a medical device or pharmaceutical company, you're 0:13:49.236 --> 0:13:51.356 going to be well served to be in Boston. If 0:13:51.396 --> 0:13:54.716 you're starting a drilling company, you should probably be in Houston. 0:13:55.356 --> 0:13:57.516 And one of the things that I found is when 0:13:57.556 --> 0:14:01.956 we started Fervo, there was zero geothermal companies in Houston. 0:14:01.996 --> 0:14:03.916 They were all in places all over the world, but 0:14:04.116 --> 0:14:06.836 in America they were not. None of them were close 0:14:06.916 --> 0:14:07.396 to Houston. 0:14:07.556 --> 0:14:10.236 And Houston is like the intellection rual center of this 0:14:11.276 --> 0:14:15.356 shale fracking drilling revolution. Right, there's this incredible innovation coming 0:14:15.396 --> 0:14:17.116 out of there. It is like the Bay Area for 0:14:17.156 --> 0:14:19.116 AI or something exactly right. 0:14:19.196 --> 0:14:23.356 All the big companies, all the big suppliers, some of 0:14:22.836 --> 0:14:26.436 the best research institutions, whether you're talking about in Houston, 0:14:26.476 --> 0:14:29.076 like the University of Houston or Rice, or in the 0:14:29.156 --> 0:14:31.436 area like the University of Texas or Texas A and 0:14:31.556 --> 0:14:34.676 M all kind of centered around this intellectual hub of 0:14:34.756 --> 0:14:39.236 subsurface that is in Houston. And there was no geothermal 0:14:39.276 --> 0:14:42.436 here and no geothermal presence here. And I think it 0:14:42.476 --> 0:14:44.396 is Yeah, you could say it's cultural, but it's also 0:14:44.476 --> 0:14:47.956 just geographical. There weren't the same number of water cooler 0:14:47.996 --> 0:14:50.356 conversations or people bump into each other and in the 0:14:50.356 --> 0:14:54.516 hallway in these other areas where that knowledge share can happen. 0:14:54.556 --> 0:14:57.836 And so that was actually something being somebody from Houston 0:14:58.036 --> 0:14:59.756 and I actually part of my journey. We did move 0:14:59.796 --> 0:15:02.196 out to the Bay Area to start the company, and 0:15:02.556 --> 0:15:05.156 that's where we founded the company, but always with a 0:15:05.276 --> 0:15:08.676 lens of making Houston the headquarters because we wanted to 0:15:08.676 --> 0:15:11.636 be in and the center of that intellectual hub. 0:15:12.276 --> 0:15:13.916 Well why start the company in the Bay Area? 0:15:13.956 --> 0:15:17.956 Then, briefly, it's gets to an interesting question speaking about geography. 0:15:18.036 --> 0:15:21.436 I mean the Bay areas where startups happen, you know, 0:15:21.636 --> 0:15:24.276 And it sort of is interesting even to this day. 0:15:24.356 --> 0:15:27.556 And Houston has an actually incredible and vibrant and growing 0:15:27.636 --> 0:15:29.476 innovation ecosystem. 0:15:29.036 --> 0:15:31.756 You need, like the hybrid DNA you need, the startup 0:15:31.876 --> 0:15:34.996 DNA in the Bay Area, and the fracking DNA of Houston. 0:15:35.076 --> 0:15:36.476 Basically you do. 0:15:36.636 --> 0:15:40.516 That's part of the magic. And the amount of capital 0:15:40.756 --> 0:15:43.876 available for people with wild ideas that could change the 0:15:43.916 --> 0:15:46.756 world is still so concentrated in the Bay Area. 0:15:47.036 --> 0:15:49.036 That's the It's like when they ask the guy, why 0:15:49.036 --> 0:15:50.676 do you rob banks, and he said, that's where the 0:15:50.676 --> 0:15:53.716 money is. That's why the Bay Area. That is exactly right, 0:15:54.036 --> 0:15:57.196 and that said, right now, where are you talking to 0:15:57.316 --> 0:15:57.756 me from? 0:15:58.276 --> 0:16:01.236 I'm in Houston, Texas net right now in twenty twenty 0:16:01.316 --> 0:16:04.316 and our third year of existence as a company. We 0:16:04.396 --> 0:16:05.756 still have an office in the Bay Area and a 0:16:05.836 --> 0:16:08.396 lot of great people that work there. But we made 0:16:08.436 --> 0:16:10.356 the decision that now it's time to scale up. Now 0:16:10.356 --> 0:16:12.796 it's time to start drilling these wells. Now is the 0:16:12.836 --> 0:16:15.956 time where it's most important that we're located here in Houston, 0:16:15.996 --> 0:16:19.396 and so I relocated back here and our corporate headquarters 0:16:19.396 --> 0:16:20.196 are here in Houston. 0:16:22.796 --> 0:16:25.476 In a minute, Tim and his company build a real 0:16:25.756 --> 0:16:38.676 geothermal power corner. So where are you now? I mean, 0:16:38.676 --> 0:16:41.916 you have this thesis several years ago, which is basically 0:16:42.756 --> 0:16:45.836 if we bring the technology from the shale boom, if 0:16:45.836 --> 0:16:48.556 you're fracking technology to bear on geothermal, we can make 0:16:48.596 --> 0:16:48.996 it work. 0:16:49.636 --> 0:16:53.276 Where are you now, Yeah, we're making it work. That's 0:16:53.276 --> 0:16:57.036 where we are now. So in twenty twenty two, we 0:16:57.196 --> 0:16:59.876 drilled three wells at a site in northern Nevada as 0:16:59.916 --> 0:17:02.196 part of a development agreement with Google Google pay It 0:17:02.276 --> 0:17:04.996 played a major catalytic role in this. Google is one 0:17:05.036 --> 0:17:07.916 of the first people to bring up an awareness of 0:17:07.956 --> 0:17:11.756 something that is a recognition in the market that's benefitted 0:17:11.836 --> 0:17:14.596 Fervo a lot, which is that solar and wind are 0:17:14.636 --> 0:17:17.996 going to be the workhorses of a decarbonized electric cred 0:17:18.076 --> 0:17:20.156 but cannot do the job all on their own, and 0:17:20.236 --> 0:17:23.276 we need a complementary resource like geothermal that can work 0:17:23.316 --> 0:17:25.996 twenty four to seven to complement wind and solar so 0:17:25.996 --> 0:17:28.636 we can get all the way to decarbonized electric cred. 0:17:29.036 --> 0:17:30.716 And I think the exciting thing for us as a 0:17:30.756 --> 0:17:34.076 company is we began that project in twenty twenty two. 0:17:34.236 --> 0:17:37.796 We published results from a very successful test phase of 0:17:37.796 --> 0:17:42.876 that project a just over the summer, and after the 0:17:42.916 --> 0:17:45.236 results of that test phase, we move forward with commissioning 0:17:45.236 --> 0:17:48.436 that project and that product is now producing electricity. We've 0:17:48.476 --> 0:17:50.916 now just finished and brought onto the Electric cred our 0:17:51.036 --> 0:17:55.476 very first ever electricity producing project using advanced geothermal technology. 0:17:55.996 --> 0:18:00.036 Great, so you have this project in Nevada that just 0:18:01.236 --> 0:18:05.676 turned on, just started producing real electricity for real people 0:18:06.796 --> 0:18:10.636 in the last few months. Right, Yes, how does it work? Like, 0:18:10.796 --> 0:18:12.556 just tell me what's going on there? How's it work? 0:18:13.476 --> 0:18:17.476 Yeah? So the way our kind of geothermal works. And 0:18:17.516 --> 0:18:21.276 again I told you earlier that we had the tech 0:18:21.316 --> 0:18:25.156 fifty years ago to do these perfect shallow hot productive resources, 0:18:25.476 --> 0:18:27.956 but it's always been a struggle to make the other deeper, 0:18:28.076 --> 0:18:29.556 less productive resources work. 0:18:29.756 --> 0:18:32.436 Most of the world, the vast majority. 0:18:31.956 --> 0:18:35.196 Of the most of the world, every place that's not Iceland, basically. 0:18:36.996 --> 0:18:39.516 And so what we do differently is we drill our 0:18:39.556 --> 0:18:42.196 wells deeper, for one. And then when we drill these 0:18:42.196 --> 0:18:44.836 wells deeper, not only do we drill them down vertically, 0:18:44.836 --> 0:18:46.836 but we then drill them horizontally as well. So to 0:18:46.876 --> 0:18:50.876 give you some depths to think about the project that 0:18:50.916 --> 0:18:53.316 we did in Nevada, we drilled that well eight thousand 0:18:53.356 --> 0:18:56.636 feet straight down and then four thousand feet horizontally. 0:18:56.996 --> 0:18:59.956 Wow, so like a mile and a half down and 0:19:00.516 --> 0:19:04.156 almost a mile over, So like an L. I should 0:19:04.156 --> 0:19:05.436 be thinking of a capital L. 0:19:06.116 --> 0:19:09.396 Yes, a giant capital L. And then we but a 0:19:09.396 --> 0:19:12.236 second giant capital L right next to it in parallel. 0:19:12.276 --> 0:19:15.036 So a few hundred feet away is another well that's 0:19:15.076 --> 0:19:16.276 as deep in parallel. 0:19:16.636 --> 0:19:20.036 Two l's running parallel giant under the. 0:19:19.996 --> 0:19:23.796 Two big pipes in the ground. Exactly how big the 0:19:23.836 --> 0:19:26.596 pipes themselves are seven inches across. 0:19:26.756 --> 0:19:29.796 Not big long, but narrow long. 0:19:29.596 --> 0:19:31.556 But narrow that I think about them like really big 0:19:31.596 --> 0:19:33.156 pipes that we've stuck into the ground. 0:19:33.876 --> 0:19:38.436 Yeah, okay, and it's just rock all the way through there. 0:19:38.516 --> 0:19:40.956 You're just going down and over in the rock. 0:19:41.076 --> 0:19:44.196 It's rock all the way through there. And importantly for us, 0:19:44.636 --> 0:19:45.436 it's hot rock. 0:19:46.196 --> 0:19:49.356 Okay, yes, hot, right, that's the key, both geo and thermal. 0:19:49.756 --> 0:19:50.796 Then what happens? 0:19:51.276 --> 0:19:53.036 Okay, so let me tell you how this works. Now, 0:19:53.036 --> 0:19:55.476 we just have the pipes in place, and the pipes 0:19:55.516 --> 0:19:57.996 go through the rock. And what we end up doing 0:19:58.116 --> 0:20:00.996 to create the geothermal electricity, you know, because those rocks 0:20:00.996 --> 0:20:02.876 are hot, but the he just won't move on its own. 0:20:03.156 --> 0:20:05.196 What we do is we actually pump cold water down 0:20:05.236 --> 0:20:07.716 the injection well, and then that injection well has about 0:20:07.716 --> 0:20:10.596 one hundred different ports in that water can flow out 0:20:10.836 --> 0:20:14.116 and it flows across the rock over to the production well. 0:20:14.476 --> 0:20:17.996 They're like holes in the side of the pipe basically yep, yeah, 0:20:18.036 --> 0:20:19.556 and the water goes out of the pipe. Now in 0:20:19.556 --> 0:20:22.716 my mind, it's just rock down there. Yeah, So like 0:20:22.916 --> 0:20:26.436 what happens? What, like what's going on there? Yeah? 0:20:26.476 --> 0:20:28.676 Water can always flow through rock. I mean, this is 0:20:28.716 --> 0:20:31.036 the same way that oil is produced or water wells work. 0:20:31.076 --> 0:20:33.756 Water can always flow through rock. In our case is 0:20:33.836 --> 0:20:37.716 we have actually created these fractures that go from one 0:20:37.756 --> 0:20:40.676