Speaker 1: Keep on riding with us, says, we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Speaker 1: Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher Army host Rams's Job.
Speaker 2: Qward here as usual, accompanying who I'd like to call
Speaker 2: the pilot of this ship, King Rams Job.
Speaker 1: Well, we are doing this for you and we appreciate
Speaker 1: you tuning in and we want you to stick around.
Speaker 1: The second half of the show is going to see
Speaker 1: us discussing how death Row systematically executes potentially innocent black
Speaker 1: people and I feel like we shouldn't need to add this,
Speaker 1: but we're also going to discuss why we think that
Speaker 1: is wrong, just in case you are someone you know
Speaker 1: doesn't see a problem with it. Of course, there are
Speaker 1: three cases we're going to discuss that all happened in
Speaker 1: the month of September that we feel you should know about.
Speaker 1: So stick around for that and so much more. But
Speaker 1: before we get there, it's time to discuss Baba Becoming
Speaker 1: a better Alli Baba and Today's Baba. Sponsored by Friends
Speaker 1: of the Movement. You can sign up for the free
Speaker 1: voter while at from fotmglobal dot com to support black
Speaker 1: businesses and allied businesses as well as make an impact
Speaker 1: with your spending. Again, that's Fotmglobal dot com. And today
Speaker 1: we want to take you about the National Council of
Speaker 1: Negro Women. If you haven't heard of the NCNW, please
Speaker 1: check the website NCNW dot org. I'll share a bit
Speaker 1: about their mission, which is to lead, empower and advocate
Speaker 1: for women of African descent, their families and communities. The
Speaker 1: National Council of Negro Women is an organization of organizations
Speaker 1: comprised of three hundred and thirty campuses in community based
Speaker 1: sections and thirty three national women's organizations that enlightens, inspires,
Speaker 1: and connects more than two million women and men. Its
Speaker 1: mission is to lead, advocate for, and empower women of
Speaker 1: African descent, their families and communities. It was founded in
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty five by doctor Mary McLoud Bethune, an influential
Speaker 1: educator and activist, and for more than fifty years, the
Speaker 1: iconic doctor Dorothy Hede was president of the NCNW. Today,
Speaker 1: the NCNW programs are grounded on a foundation of critical
Speaker 1: concerns that are now NCNW priorities. The organization promotes education,
Speaker 1: encourages entrepreneurship, financial literacy, and economic stability, educates women about
Speaker 1: health and promotes health care access, and promotes civic engagement,
Speaker 1: and advocates for sound public policy and social justice. Around here,
Speaker 1: Q and I have a saying. I'll let him chime
Speaker 1: in with the same.
Speaker 2: I was not prepared for Ramses to toss that to
Speaker 2: me because he was the first person that I heard
Speaker 2: say it, and I adopted it. He likes to kind
Speaker 2: of platform me in situations like this. But the black woman,
Speaker 2: the closest thing on earth to God is something that
Speaker 2: we've not only adopted but truly how we feel. So
Speaker 2: continue to lead us, protect us, and watch over us
Speaker 2: as you always have.
Speaker 1: Again, that's NCNW dot org. All right, well done, Just
Speaker 1: through you that one, because it just sounds better when
Speaker 1: when it doesn't. But sure I think it does. I
Speaker 1: think you're there's something about it, man. I just anyway,
Speaker 1: all right, So we have to talk about some some
Speaker 1: recent high profile executions that you may have encountered on
Speaker 1: social media. I realized that this is heavy. These these
Speaker 1: stories are grim for those of you who are courageous
Speaker 1: enough to continue to, you know, walk with us on
Speaker 1: this journey. You know, I feel like it's important to
Speaker 1: remind you as often as we as we can that
Speaker 1: we appreciate you taking a moment to take on problems
Speaker 1: that that aren't yours, or you know, to support us
Speaker 1: in our in our efforts to make the world a
Speaker 1: better place. And you know, we're journalists and we work
Speaker 1: in media, so this is what we do and this
Speaker 1: is our contribution. We're going to share a few stories
Speaker 1: and then of course we'll get to the story that
Speaker 1: may have come across your timeline about Marcellus Williams. But first,
Speaker 1: just know that these all happened within a month time span.
Speaker 1: Gives you an idea of exactly what we're up against.
Speaker 1: The first story comes from The Guardian. This one was
Speaker 1: September twentieth. South Carolina executed a man on death row
Speaker 1: on Friday, days after the key witness for the prosecution
Speaker 1: came forward to say he had lied at trial and
Speaker 1: the state was putting to death an innocent man, Khalil
Speaker 1: Divine black Son Allah, forty six, was killed by lethal injection,
Speaker 1: pronounced dead at six to fifty five PM, according to
Speaker 1: the Associated Press, which was one of several media witnesses
Speaker 1: to the execution. His lawyers had filed emergency motions for
Speaker 1: a delay this week, citing new testimonies suggesting he had
Speaker 1: been wrongfully convicted, but the state Supreme Court rejected the
Speaker 1: police and Henry McMaster, the Republican governor, announced just before
Speaker 1: the execution that he would not be granting clemency. We're
Speaker 1: going to have to circle back to that one. I
Speaker 1: just don't feel like leaving these in the wings and
Speaker 1: you having to anticipate when the other shoe was going
Speaker 1: to drop. So we're just going to get through all these.
Speaker 1: This next one comes from The Guardian, going from South
Speaker 1: Carolina now to Oklahoma. Oklahoma executed a man by lethal
Speaker 1: injectson Thursday morning, despite conflicting evidence regarding his guilt. Emanuel
Speaker 1: little John, aged fifty two, was executed by lethal injection
Speaker 1: for his role in the nineteen ninety two shooting death
Speaker 1: of a convenience store owner during a robbery in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 1: Little John was the third inmate put to death by
Speaker 1: the state this year. He was twenty years old at
Speaker 1: the time the crime was committed. During the robbery, the
Speaker 1: store owner, Kenneth Meres, thirty one, was shot in the
Speaker 1: face while trying to defend himself. Although little John admitted
Speaker 1: to his involvement in the robbery. He has maintained that
Speaker 1: his accomplice, Glenn Bethany, was the one who pulled the trigger.
Speaker 1: Bethany was sentenced to life without parole, while Little John
Speaker 1: was sentenced to death. Quote. I committed robbery that had
Speaker 1: devastating consequence, as Little John said during the hearing. It
Speaker 1: goes on to say, but I repeat, I did not
Speaker 1: kill mister Meers. Little John's case has raised questions over
Speaker 1: conflicting evidence, with some witnesses pointing at Bethany as the shooter.
Speaker 1: His legal team argued against his executions, citing inconsistent prosecutions
Speaker 1: in his case. His lawyers also mentioned Little John's troubled
Speaker 1: childhood and underdeveloped brain at the time of the crime.
Speaker 1: His team emphasized his personal growth in prison, where he
Speaker 1: has become a positive role model for his family. Several
Speaker 1: jurors have admitted they mistakenly voted for the death penalty
Speaker 1: because they misunderstood the implications of a life without parole sentence.
Speaker 1: During a hearing last month, Oklahoma's Pardon and Parole Board
Speaker 1: voted three to two to recommend the state's governor, Kevin Stitt,
Speaker 1: spare Little John's life. In twenty twenty one, the governor
Speaker 1: commuted the sentence of Julius Jones, who was convicted for
Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety nine murder of Paul Howell, to life
Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole, just a few hours before
Speaker 1: his execution. But no such decision was taken for little John. Okay,
Speaker 1: and uh, this is the one that you might be
Speaker 1: a little bit more familiar with. This from the Associated Press.
Speaker 1: A Missouri man convicted of breaking into a woman's home
Speaker 1: and repeatedly stabbing her was executed Tuesday over the objections
Speaker 1: of the victim's family and the prosecutor, who wanted the
Speaker 1: death since commuted to life in prison. Marcellus Williams, fifty five,
Speaker 1: was convicted in the nineteen ninety eight killing of Lesia Gale,
Speaker 1: who was stabbed during the burglary of her suburban Saint
Speaker 1: Louis home. Williams was put to death despite questions his
Speaker 1: attorneys raised over jury's selection at his trial and the
Speaker 1: handling of evidence in the case. His clemency petition focused
Speaker 1: on how Gale's relatives wanted Williams the sentence commuted to
Speaker 1: life without the possibility of parole. Quote the family defines
Speaker 1: closure as Marcellus being allowed to live. Unquote, the petition stated,
Speaker 1: quote Marcellus's execution is not necessary. As Williams lay awaiting execution,
Speaker 1: he appeared to converse with a spiritual advisor seated next
Speaker 1: to him. Williams wiggled his feet underneath a white sheet
Speaker 1: that was pulled up to his neck and moved his
Speaker 1: head slightly while his spiritual advisor continued to talk. Then
Speaker 1: Williams's chest heaved about half a dozen times, and then
Speaker 1: he showed no movement. Okay, now I'm going to start,
Speaker 1: and I know you have some things to share with USQ.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that we are saying that these people
Speaker 1: are completely innocent of all crimes. They just randomly found
Speaker 1: someone and put them on death row. That has happened
Speaker 1: many times throughout our history in this country. But I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that these instances are Indeed, many instances like
Speaker 1: these are blameless the individuals at the center of the story.
Speaker 2: But according to what we know, one of these instances, however,
Speaker 2: is yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay. But our position in discussing this isn't to say
Speaker 1: that our position is one that needs to shed light
Speaker 1: on the fact that this happens more frequently than people know. Recently,
Speaker 1: we've been talking about Marcellus Williams, and for us to
Speaker 1: do a segment dedicated to that, that would have been
Speaker 1: sort of par for the course for us. But more
Speaker 1: often than that, we deal data, and in dealing in data,
Speaker 1: we can take a look at charts, grafts, trends, tendencies,
Speaker 1: and we can share examples like this that paint a
Speaker 1: better picture. We're not trying to say that the prosecution
Speaker 1: has no case. I think that in a position we
Speaker 1: can adopt as far as this segment is concerned, is
Speaker 1: that the only case that a prosecution can make that
Speaker 1: meets the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt should
Speaker 1: not result in a death penalty sentence, if anything. And
Speaker 1: it's in that space where we are able to articulate
Speaker 1: this segment in the way that we have, which is
Speaker 1: what we're witnessing is state sanction executions that are systemic,
Speaker 1: and often enough, we're looking at black people at the
Speaker 1: center of it. Now, Q, I know that you've done
Speaker 1: a good amount of research into that data, So talk
Speaker 1: to us a little bit about some of the findings
Speaker 1: and maybe how they hit you.
Speaker 2: So we spend a lot of time on our show
Speaker 2: talking about how we feel, and people can push back
Speaker 2: because they don't feel the same. So I want to
Speaker 2: read some data. If anyone wants to double check, it's
Speaker 2: very very easy, not only as Google free, but I'll
Speaker 2: even point you to my sources, the Innocence Project and
Speaker 2: the Equal Justice Initiatives. And this data can also be
Speaker 2: coroberated by the United States government. So it's not This
Speaker 2: isn't biased data that we use to try to shape
Speaker 2: a narrative. It's just straightforward data. However, you can here
Speaker 2: with the applic of this data, why the punishment for
Speaker 2: any crime, or why capital punishment and execution should not
Speaker 2: be the punishment for any crime, especially as rams is said,
Speaker 2: when in a lot of cases it's just beyond a
Speaker 2: reasonable doubt that the crime was even committed in the
Speaker 2: first place, and that you cannot undo an execution. A
Speaker 2: lot of prosecutors, a lot of governors, and there's another
Speaker 2: pattern here that you may have noticed, Republican governors of
Speaker 2: red states deciding that what I say is what should
Speaker 2: ultimately happen, even if I'm wrong, even if you can
Speaker 2: prove I'm wrong, I already said that's what I'm going
Speaker 2: to do, so reaching that end is more important than
Speaker 2: doing what's right.
Speaker 1: This reminds me of the Central Park five, now, the
Speaker 1: exonerated five, when Donald Trump was calling for the execution
Speaker 1: that the death penalty deeper them, but anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 2: So the death penalty in America is a flawed, expensive
Speaker 2: policy defined by bias and error. It unfortunately targets the
Speaker 2: most vulnerable people in our society and corrupts the integrity
Speaker 2: of our criminal justice system. From police officers to family
Speaker 2: members of murder victims, Americans are recognizing that the death
Speaker 2: penalty does not make us safer, which I think people
Speaker 2: would assume. If you give a crime the most extreme punishment,
Speaker 2: people are less likely to commit that crime. It doesn't work,
Speaker 2: but typically in the process of committing a crime, we're
Speaker 2: not sitting down to process potential outcomes if we get caught.
Speaker 2: It's not typically how crime works. You and I know,
Speaker 2: and this is me stepping away from data for a second,
Speaker 2: that unfortunately our criminal justice system works better for rich
Speaker 2: people guilty of crimes than poor people that are innocent
Speaker 2: of crimes. Now that sounds like me saying something that
Speaker 2: I feel to be true. But the data will show
Speaker 2: you that I'm correct. Two hundred people since nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: three have been exonerated and released from death row. Sixteen
Speaker 2: hundred people have been executed in that same time. For
Speaker 2: every eight people executed, one person on death row was exonerated,
Speaker 2: so one out of eight at least four percent of
Speaker 2: those sentenced to death are innocent.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Important that there's a period after that word, because it
Speaker 2: doesn't say presumed, It doesn't say we think four percent
Speaker 2: are innocent. Period. Several factors drive and lead to wrongful
Speaker 2: convictions were seen in multiple cases that we just read about.
Speaker 2: Erroneous eyewitness identifications. I'm sorry it was the other guy,
Speaker 2: and prosecutors and legislators who have decided, well, we already
Speaker 2: said that guy is guilty. We don't want to be wrong.
Speaker 2: We don't want to say i'm sorry. You don't want
Speaker 2: to look in, and we don't want to look incompetent
Speaker 2: or biased, be subject to the fiscal responsibility of having
Speaker 2: had someone spend thirty years in prison for a crime
Speaker 2: they didn't commit. So I'm not going to look at
Speaker 2: the new evidence that you're trying to present that proves
Speaker 2: that this person didn't commit this crime, because we have
Speaker 2: DNA on the murder weapon. That's not this person who
Speaker 2: we accused of the crime. We're going to execute him anyway,
Speaker 2: because back then we made a good enough case to
Speaker 2: convict him, so we don't care if we were wrong.
Speaker 2: False and coursed confessions. People who can't afford proper legal representation,
Speaker 2: who confess to crimes to just get out of the
Speaker 2: situation that they're in. They don't know any better, they
Speaker 2: don't know what to do. They're scared, they're tired, they're hungry,
Speaker 2: they're whatever the case may be. You know, if you
Speaker 2: just say you did this, you can go. Kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Inadequate legal defense, same thing, poor vulnerable people who cannot
Speaker 2: hire a good enough attorney to advise them on what
Speaker 2: they should do in situations like this. False or misleading
Speaker 2: forensic evidence. In the case of brother Williams, here again
Speaker 2: DNA evidence not his DNA present on the weapon used
Speaker 2: to commit the murder. Too bad. Once again, we already
Speaker 2: made our decision, and we're right. False accusations, perjury and biased. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: and if you guys watch television or read the news
Speaker 2: or whatever you get your information from, you may notice
Speaker 2: that tens of millions of people in this country are racist,
Speaker 2: flagrantly out loud, screaming it. Those types of people would
Speaker 2: be motivated to make false accusations against someone like myself,
Speaker 2: or call the cops on a neighbor watering the plants.
Speaker 2: Those type of people end up in juries, juries, end
Speaker 2: up not reflecting their communities. You know, black suspects on
Speaker 2: trial with all white juries in Deep South states where
Speaker 2: people are still flying the Confederate flag and wearing case
Speaker 2: a KK robes and marching with tiki torches. Now, I
Speaker 2: said those things off the top of my head. If
Speaker 2: you're listening and you heard these stories, go back and
Speaker 2: see what states they were in, and see if any
Speaker 2: of the things that I just said resonate specifically to
Speaker 2: the states where these things happened, Like Missouri, if you will,
Speaker 2: Like South Carolina if you will, Oklahoma. Yeah, I'll let
Speaker 2: you guys do your own research. I know it sounds
Speaker 2: like feelings, but it's also the truth. The death penalty removes,
Speaker 2: forgive how trivial this sounds, but it removes my bad.
Speaker 2: I made a mistake. I'm sorry. It's done, and you
Speaker 2: put somebody in jail for life incorrectly you're going to
Speaker 2: take part of their life away. If you later find
Speaker 2: out you were wrong. If you execut somebody and you
Speaker 2: later find out you were wrong, no justice can be done.
Speaker 2: No amount of money you give their family, no amount
Speaker 2: of length the apology letters that you write can fix that.
Speaker 2: Important to say this. In death penalty cases, perjury, false accusations,
Speaker 2: and official misconduct are the leading causes of wrongful convictions,
Speaker 2: and that's from prosecutors and law enforcement officers. A record
Speaker 2: one hundred and eleven exonerations in twenty eighteen involved witnesses
Speaker 2: who lied on the stand or falsely accused defendants. That's
Speaker 2: one hundred and eleven exonerations in one year because of
Speaker 2: that from death row. In fifty of those cases, the
Speaker 2: defendants were falsely accused of a crime that never happened.
Speaker 2: Not only did this person not commit a crime, a
Speaker 2: crime wasn't committed. Without proper legal representation, those people will
Speaker 2: get put to death again, not just for a crime
Speaker 2: they didn't do, but for a crime that no one did.
Speaker 2: So forgive me if you hear me getting more emotional
Speaker 2: as I read this. Misconduct by police or prosecutors was
Speaker 2: involved in seventy nine percent of homicide exonerations in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: This data coming from a single year. Concealing evidence that
Speaker 2: cast doubt on the defendant's guilt is the most common
Speaker 2: type of misconduct, which includes police officers threatening witnesses, forensic analysis,
Speaker 2: faking test results, and prosecutors presenting false testimony the people
Speaker 2: that we trust to uphold and enforce the law. Official
Speaker 2: misconduct is more common in death penalty cases, especially if
Speaker 2: the defendant is black. Data shows that eighty seven percent
Speaker 2: of black exgneries were sentenced to death were victims of
Speaker 2: official misconduct, compared to sixty seven percent of white death
Speaker 2: row exigneries. A person doesn't have to be innocent to
Speaker 2: be wrongly sentenced to death. That is very important thing
Speaker 2: to process. The intense pressure to obtain a death sentence
Speaker 2: and the political stakes for police, prosecutors, and even judges
Speaker 2: can cause serious legal errors and contribute to wrongful convictions
Speaker 2: and death sentences. There should not be any gray area here.
Speaker 2: The number shouldn't even be one percent of people killed
Speaker 2: being innocent.
Speaker 1: So let me go with that. First off, I'm not
Speaker 1: a fan of the death penalty, not just I just
Speaker 1: don't believe that we should live in a world where
Speaker 1: that is what we do.
Speaker 2: Someone as flawed as you and I shouldn't be able
Speaker 2: to say he deserves to be killed yes or she,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: But what I'm most concerned about is that we'll say
Speaker 1: this and there's you know, so many people that listen
Speaker 1: to this show, and they may not be outraged. But
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, if one out of eight airplanes crashed,
Speaker 1: they would be an outrage. Or four percent of cars
Speaker 1: rides resulted in a car crash, it would be outrage.
Speaker 1: And so I want you to keep in mind that
Speaker 1: these are human beings whose lives are being systematically exterminated.
Speaker 1: And we'll leave it right there. As always, i'd like
Speaker 1: to thank you for tuning in to Civic Cipher. I've
Speaker 1: been your host Rams's job.
Speaker 2: He is Rams's job. I am q Ward. Thank you
Speaker 2: again for tuning into Civic Cipher. Thank you for sharing,
Speaker 2: for commenting, for liking, for subscribing. We appreciate all of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you would like to support us and you're
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Speaker 1: as well. And until next week, y'all, peace, peace,