WEBVTT - PJ Green [6] 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.720 New episodes of Monster BTK are released every Monday and 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:10.480 brought to you absolutely free. But if you want to 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.880 hear the whole season right now, it's available ad free 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:18.200 on iHeart True Crime Plus. For more information, check out 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:22.480 the show notes. Enjoy the episode. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:29.480 You're listening to Monster BTK, a production of iHeart Podcasts 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:33.680 and Tenderfoot TV. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:43.720 Delores Davis was reported missing on January nineteenth, nineteen ninety one. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.519 I remember my wife after the phone and I saw 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.440 her come in. I can see her mouth the words, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:54.960 and I kind of waved her off and like, I 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.240 don't have time for it. She said, it is just important. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.000 My name is Jeff Davis and I'm the son of 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.920 Doloris Davis. So I picked up the phone and talked 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.520 to my sister, and she's pretty ristals. She said that 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.000 one of our cousins had called and they had been 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.480 contacted by the Sriiff's office and had been told the 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.480 mother's house had been broken into and the mother was missing. 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:28.320 And I knew as an ext cop Fatman Hugh probably did. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.520 The body of Dolores Davis was found on February first, 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.200 at the intersection of West one hundred and seventeenth Street 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.000 North and North Meridian Street in Park City by a 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:46.280 teenager named Nelson Shank. Again, police failed to connect it 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.760 with BTK. With this murder, there were multiple opportunities where 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:52.960 Raider could have been caught. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.800 With Deloris Davis. He wanted to do something different. He 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.040 wanted to take her body and take it to a barn, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.640 but it was a foggy, snowy night, so he got 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.400 lost and he had to finally just dump the body 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.880 out under a bridge. So he comes back and he's 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.120 in a change into the Boy Scout uniform stuff, and 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.880 a cop comes along and they're checking people because they're 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.200 looking for this missing woman. And the cop is supposed 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:28.519 to check everybody. Had he checked Rader's car, he would 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.040 have found things that would have been very suspicious. And 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.640 Rader immediately started talking about, oh, you know, I'm a 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.919 Boy Scout volunteer, you know this camp up here, and 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.480 with the idea that no one would suspect somebody who 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.760 volunteers with the Boy Scouts to be a nefarious killer. 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.800 And he was right because the cop let him go. 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.359 The cop did not do his job that night, because, 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.240 of course, a nice guy like this isn't the kind 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:02.520 of person I'm looking for. So stereotype and the expectation 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.480 allowed Raider to be not caught. 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:16.440 That night, someone killed four members of a family. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.840 Hedge vanished from her home suddenly last weekend. Her phone 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:21.919 lines had been cut, her door left open. 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.320 You see the victim play in there with plastic bags 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.360 over their heads, strangled. You could tell it was a 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:29.639 plan scenario. 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.400 Well, police have said no more about the contents of 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.240 the letter. It does contain some sort of threat and 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.480 implies the killer may strike again. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.320 He's going to play with these victims. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.080 He'd get him to the point of death and then bring. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.600 Them back and then brings them back to the point 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:46.080 of death. 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:53.200 From My Heart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. I'm Susan Peters 0:03:53.840 --> 0:04:03.120 and this is Monster BTK. It was May of nineteen 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.680 ninety one. Dennis Raider had gotten away with his tenth 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:11.040 murder just four months earlier. A Raider could have used 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:15.280 this success to keep killing, but instead he pulled back 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.200 and got a job as a compliance officer for the 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:23.279 city of Park City, a small suburb just outside of Wichita. 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.960 This was a job that would keep Raider very busy. 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.120 Here are his words from the book Confession of a 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:30.960 Serial Killer. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.599 I revamped the program there instead of new animal control 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.919 laws and enforced them and set up professional standards in training. 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.279 I started code enforcement on junk cars, trashing the yard, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:49.680 unmowed grass, etc. The position became more professional throughout the years. 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.560 This job earned Raider some unwelcome notoriety in the neighborhood. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.320 Here's Carrie Rawson, daughter of Dennis Raider. 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.680 People in Park City, they knew him as a compliance officer, 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.640 and there's stories of him getting a ruler and measuring 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.640 their grass and being a hard knows about their animal 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.279 being loose so that they didn't have the permit for 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.280 their garage that they're building or their yard cell. I mean, 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.800 he could be a total hard ass. We even had 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.600 to change our phone number after you got that job 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:22.240 because people were calling mad. 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:28.200 I mean, there are people been liking, including people sometimes myself, 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.360 because he could be abrasive. 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.640 This is Bob Smiser, a Wichita native who personally knew 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:36.599 Dennis Raider. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.040 If Dennis was nothing else, he was very very by 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.560 the book, there was no gray, it was black and white, 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.679 and he was very precise in how things were doing 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.200 and if you worked with Nis, that's the way you 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.760 did it. I'm not saying it was bad. I'm just 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:58.640 saying that that's how he saw things. Was ABC. 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.960 And Rader went to the same church, Christ Lutheran in 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:08.000 Park City. Most of their interactions were normal, if not kurt, 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.960 but there was one incident with Rader that had put 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:12.240 Bob on edge. 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.240 One of my older daughters lived in Park City in 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.279 the house that her grandparents had lived in then the 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.360 street from Dennis. But my daughter came to me and said, Dad, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.039 you know Dennis has showed up in our backyard a 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.320 coup foers. And I said, really, well, are your dogs 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.360 getting out? Is there something? No, No, we didn't have 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.200 any problem with the dogs. Get out. We got that 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.880 fixed up, she says, just creepy. I said, okay, And 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.560 I happened to catch Dennis at church. I said, hey, 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:44.000 what's up with my daughter and her husband? He asked 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.040 me where they lived and I told him why. Well, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.160 she said, you know, you've showed up in the backyard 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.320 a few times. Just found it a little creepy, just 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:56.920 sort of wondering, Oh, it's their neighbor. I'm militia. The 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.800 neighbor in the last couple of years and I've talked 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:05.839 about it. She told me that her neighbor was single. 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:13.840 A single woman, single, vulnerable women were Raiders bread and butter. 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.680 From the middle of nineteen ninety one on, Raider used 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.080 his compliance officer job as a way to stalk women. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:29.320 There were other pjs, PJ Tube, PJ Webb, PJ twin Peaks, 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:34.120 PG Music, PJ Clip, and PJ Spider. This last one 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.120 was a bee where I entered and waited, but no 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.760 one came home. Most of these were in Park City 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:46.680 area or north of Wichita. I was always on the prowl. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.960 It's a common thing in the true crime books that 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.680 are written about Raider to say that he went dormant 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.120 between nineteen ninety one and two thousand and four, and 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:58.800 he says that's not true. 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.800 Author and professor of forensic psychology Catherine Ramsland. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.920 He gave me a list of fifty five different projects 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.480 of women he had seen and stalked, and he had 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.880 named them, he had their address, he had described them. 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.400 He just broke in their house and they didn't come home, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.600 or there wasn't a good opportunity, you know. During his 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.120 college years he could say I'm writing a paper at 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.480 the library and then goes stalk someone without anyone suspecting anything. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:33.079 But once he was a father and husband and really 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.360 had to have a schedule, it was much harder to do. 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.120 But he did not go dormant. It's just that he 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.520 didn't succeed, and he talks about it being like a fisherman. 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:45.520 He goes out to fish and sometimes comes home empty handed. 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.240 We don't know for sure if Rader killed again during 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.359 this time period. It's possible, but nothing has ever been confirmed. 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.840 If he did, in fact stop killing, it's the question 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:06.839 why why would he stalk but never kill. 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.240 I don't think it was anything like some moral idea 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.160 like maybe I should be attending to my soul now 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.600 or I don't think it was anything like that. I 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.200 think it was bad timing. I don't think he had 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.280 any reason to stop. I think he just didn't have 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:25.840 the opportunities that he had had earlier, and he was 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.760 feeling much less agile. His body strength wasn't what it 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:33.560 had been. That put him at risk for getting caught 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:35.800 if he had to jump out a window or something 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.600 like that. So I think he was feeling kind of 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.720 vulnerable and that maybe some of the things he had 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.439 done earlier, he was not going to be able to 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:43.160 pull them off. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.120 As the years passed, everyone in the Wichita area wondered 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:53.040 what happened to BTK. Bob Smyser says that on more 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.280 than one occasion he was with Raider when that very 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:57.840 question was brought up. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.280 Every Sunday, monks in the North Exa this group of 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.520 guys that we went fishing and did those things. We 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:10.320 all got together and talked and BTK came up. Dennis 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.320 was always really quiet. One of the guys said, you know, 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.880 BTK must have been pretty smart, you know, and Dennis said, yeah, yeah, 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.360 he was. He thought, you know, I'm the smartest guy 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.320 in the room and they're never going to catch me. 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.560 It's likely that Raider did think he was the smartest 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.840 guy in the room because he'd miraculously gotten away with 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:36.960 murder over and over again. Police at this point thought 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.560 BTK had either died or been arrested on other charges, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:46.000 when in reality, Raider was walking through people's yards and 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.679 collecting items from their homes. 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.080 He can't help himself. I guess sometimes my dad could 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.600 be a dickhead or something growing up, but it's just 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.560 It's like an iceberg, right, like you're only seeing the 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.079 very tip of somebody with him, You're not seeing all 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:03.239 this stuff underneath. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.640 We're pressing. Those feelings turned Raider into a pressure cooker 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:15.079 ready to explode at any moment, and his family usually 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.600 paid the price when he did. Carrie recalls the time 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.120 when Rader got violent with her older brother Brian. 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.600 In August of ninety six. It was a week before 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.400 I was to go to Case statu as a freshman. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.640 My cousin, Michelle, she was killed in a g vaccinaw 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.920 on my mom's side of the family. It was a 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.280 really horrible accident. She was like a sister to me, 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:41.040 and I was deeply grieving. All my family was and 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.000 I come home after my first week of college. My 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.320 mom had made manichotti for us after working all day 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.200 and gone to all this trouble. My brother was still 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.000 living at home in ninety six. For some reason, we 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.240 got into a family fight. Now I'm sure grief spilled over. 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:02.839 My dad's dad William at leukemia, So there's a lot 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.600 of stress going on. We've got this old kitchen table 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:12.200 and somebody pounds on the table. A metal leg comes out, 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:14.600 and so all like the plates come crashing down on 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.800 the floor. There's like Manicotti red sauce all over everywhere, 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.679 and my dad is blaming my brother. And my dad 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.199 snaps and he just lunges out of his chair at 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.120 my brother. He starts strangling him from the front. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.800 These sorts of violent outbursts were not uncommon, and they 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:40.320 were typically directed at Brian. In fact, a similar incident 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.280 happened again just a few years later. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.080 Maybe around two thousand, two thousand and one. My dad 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.480 went for my brother again, up against the utility closet 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.120 in the kitchen where he stored everything. He pushed him 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.200 against the same thing again with the hands, and after 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.760 that my brother moved out. My Dad's done it twice, 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.040 and we're not telling anybody. I don't know what do 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:10.240 they tell domestic abuse victims. If they're strangling you, they're 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.880 escalating and they're going to kill you eventually. There's literature 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.120 about it. If they're strangling you, they're going to escalate, 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.079 and you're gonna end up debt. Of course, I don't 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.720 know that. I'm not even equating it to abuse. 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:23.679 Then. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.920 I literally had had conversations with my mom. We would 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:28.840 read something in the news, and she's like, why are 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.720 these women staying with these guys? Why are these battered 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.599 women not leaving? And we talked about it that we 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.240 would always leave and we wouldn't do that. We were 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.720 that family. I mean, there's sort of like this whole 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.280 Midwestern thing, like you don't talk about your problems and 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:49.040 you look like you have it together or everybody has problems, 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.880 and so you're not special. But like mom and dad 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.440 are firstborns, and we look a certain way, and we 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.360 wear are nice clothes to church, our kids are well behaved, 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.439 get together with our families. 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.360 As time went by, Raider became less and less able 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.240 to control his anger. As much as he tried to 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.120 be a father at home, he was instead becoming more 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:27.800 of a monster, and it only got worse as he 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:32.880 got older. Raider's neuroses became more pronounced at home. Growing up, 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.600 Carrie was made to feel paranoid and confused by her father. 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:43.440 My dad was so ocd, it's so weird. He murdered 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.600 two children, right, He murdered Josephinotaro and Joey O'taro. In 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.080 seventy four, he murdered an eleven year old and a 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.200 nine year old. Yet he became so overly protective, especially 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.040 if me and my mom. He had dead bolts on 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.680 our front door and our back door in the kitchen. 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.720 It was almost like he was protecting us from him. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.400 But it's because he knew how bad people could be. 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.760 He had that keen ability to read bad people. I 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:11.120 know to stay clear. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.840 But Carrie knew none of that. To her, this was traumatizing. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.960 When I'm little, he's teaching me these things. You're not 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.840 supposed to be telling kids about home invasions, right, And 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.560 he's telling me like, well, the kitchen door isn't that 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.560 great because the windows too big, and somebody can just 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.480 punch out the glass and then they can reach in. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:32.760 But if it's dead bolton and the key's not in, 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.000 then they can't get in. They got a leg jam 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:35.320 the door. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:35.600 More. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.280 He's telling me when I'm little, don't open the door 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.800 to strangers. Question them, make them show you like they're badger. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.520 They're telling you they're a cop or a maintenance man. 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.280 Check their uniform because he literally used it. 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:49.400 What he calls the roofs. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.480 He has and will break into homes with women home 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.000 during the day taking care of children and murder these 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.480 women in front of their children, and yet he is 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:01.720 obsessive fleet trying to keep me safe. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.040 Reader would continue to train Carrie as she got older 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.120 about how to look out for bad guys and to 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:11.280 defend herself. 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.280 This is mid nineties, around fifteen or sixteen. We're a 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.920 twin Link shopping mall, not far from where Vicky Wurgily 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.440 was murdered in eighty six. We're at Seers and he 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.840 decides at that moment that there is a good time 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.880 to teach me safety and security in a parking lot. 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.720 He's physically showing me, Now, if a bad guy rushes you, 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.720 you can knee him in the ball so you can 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.680 poke their eyes out, or you can jab him with 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.440 their elbow. He's literally showing me how to bite him off. 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.200 He's like, you're going to start driving now, so when 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.200 you're going to a dark heart night, check your back 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.120 seat and make sure there's not somebody laying in your 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.880 back seat, or check underneath your car, because somebody's skinny 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.640 could be under there in the slice ankle. And he's 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.920 showing me how to do the key as a woman 0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:59.880 on women know, you stick the key in between your 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.400 hands and you can use it as a weapon. He's 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:03.880 teaching me that when I'm fifteen. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.479 On the surface, there's nothing sinister about a father teaching 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.520 his daughter self defense. For normal families, this wouldn't raise 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:17.199 any red flags, and it didn't for raiders. But his 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:22.480 self defense lessons weren't the only obscure clue to raiders 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:23.920 dark secrets. 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.359 My dad never bowled, but nobody questioned, Like this maroon 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.320 in my bowling bag that was kept by our door, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.359 And of course you never looked at anything of dad's 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.159 because it wouldn't make your life really uncomfortable and awful. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:37.520 Boys in there. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.320 It was his hic hit. We camped a lot, so 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.800 we had tubs with rope and canvas tarps because he 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.520 would build two shelters when we're camping, and he would 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:52.920 store this stuff, so it wasn't unusual to have these 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.119 things in your house. And you don't go snooping in 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:56.919 dad's stuff. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.520 Carrie says it's when she thinks back to her father's hobbies, 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.600 many of which were likely covers for his murderous activities. 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.040 I used to go to the hardware store with my 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.800 dad when I was the kid. He built this massive 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.800 treehouse that was one of his projects he threw himself 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.800 into after gardening. I found out later he would get 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.679 supplies for his hit kits while he was at the 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.240 lumber store, probably with me. I used to share cryptograms 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:28.920 with my dad. He taught me how to do him. 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.560 That was another thing I shared with my dad. 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.000 As the years passed, Raider's children got fed up with 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.480 his controlling behavior, they got older, and both eventually moved out, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.159 but Carrie says she never forgot about her father's defensive 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.960 training or the paranoia that came with it. 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.600 In two thousand and one, I'm up at k State. 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.800 I've been in the dorms for five years. I'm ready 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.760 to have my own apartment. I call my dad. I said, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.280 I've I find this little apartment on the corner in Manhattan. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.720 It's a one bedroom. I want to live by myself. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.399 And I said, the problem is the only door is 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:14.000 a patio door. Now I'm upstairs, but the door's pretty flimsy. 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.920 The lock is really flimsy, and I don't have any 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.920 way to get out if there's a fire somebody gets 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.120 in my home. He said, well, are there any other windows? 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.479 And I said, yeah, in the bedroom upstairs, if I 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.359 had to, I could jump out of that in a fire. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.000 He said, well, tell me about the location. I said, well, 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.000 it's on a busy corner. It's across from a pizza 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.400 hut and a Dylan's. I said, it's well lit, it's active. 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:37.800 And he said, no, you're fine, you're safe. No one's 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.640 going to mess with you there on that corner. He said, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.320 go ahead and rent it, and when I come up, 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.000 I'll rig something up to secure your door. So he 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:47.880 took a broom and he took the broom part off 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.280 of the handle, and he wedged the handle in the 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.399 door for me, so that every night when I went 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.400 into my apartment, I would wedge it so that even 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.680 if somebody broke my flimsy lock, they couldn't open the door. 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.080 This story really struck me. It sounded odd that Rader 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.520 would tell his daughter that no one would mess with 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.240 her on a busy corner when he himself had committed 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:15.119 murders in broad daylight on busy streets. In my visits 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.560 to the victims' homes, I was often shocked by how 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:23.960 public the properties were. But yet again, Raider's mind doesn't 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:29.800 work like the rest of us. When Carrie and Brian 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.119 moved out of the house. Dennis invested more time and 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.520 responsibility at Christ Lutheran Church. This is where he and 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.320 Bob Smiser got to really know each other. 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:46.480 I think that for him in the church that it 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.880 may have been repentance. He was trying to figure it out. 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:53.480 I've stood at the front of the church with him 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.320 when we had communion and it was just him and 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.560 I in front of Pastor Clark. You know, you say 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.920 a little and I always had to wait for Dennis. 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.560 I mean, he was always a little longer at it. 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.199 Now was that show? I don't know. 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.240 Bob says that Dennis always seemed like a loner. They 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.479 rarely talked about anything important. 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.920 Dennis and I were never best friends, but I don't 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.680 nobody had one. He always felt like he was a 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.600 little bit guarded. He did help my mother. I had 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.080 a fire at ninety five out here on West Central 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.959 in the apartment she was living in id bet Her 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.320 had a fire. She had bunch smoke, damaged, water damage 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.359 and called Dennis, and Dennis went out and helped halt 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:39.159 her stuff open to my cousin's house. 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:46.080 Bob never imagined that this man had a twisted dark side. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:50.200 I had not seen that component of Dennis. Yeah, I 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:51.800 hadn't seen that component. 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:56.320 Neither did Pastor Michael Clark, who had a close relationship 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.880 with Dennis. In fact, Clark relied on Dennis for chor 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:01.040 around the church. 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.240 If when the acolytes hadn't got there and the candles 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.959 didn't get lift, he always had always turn to Dennis 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.000 and say Dennis, and Dennis would do that. Their relationship 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:12.840 was good, and he was somebody kicked to Bendo. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.280 Looking back, Bob never would have expected that raider was BTK, 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.800 but he felt that something big was going to happen 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:24.359 regarding the mysterious BTK killer. 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:25.960 And soon. 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:31.560 I just got this feelding, I want to know this guy. 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:38.280 In two thousand and four, Bob's premonition would begin to 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:42.679 take shape. That year was the thirtieth anniversary of the 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:47.560 Otaro killings, the first BTK murder. It's pretty common for 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:53.199 news outlets to program anniversary retrospectives for big events. In 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.520 the case of unsolved murders, where there's been no justice 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.760 for the victims or their families, there's an added goal 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:05.600 of potentially generating new leads, and that's what happened in Wichita. 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.919 The Wichita Egle ran an anniversary piece and there was 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:14.520 a show on the Otto murders on the thirtieth anniversary 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.119 that ran in like January two thousand and four, and 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:22.040 that's supposedly woke my dad up. He said that he 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.679 was kind of bored. The kids were grown, we were safe, 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.920 we were out of the house. He had raised us well. 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:34.480 Nobody remembered BTK, and he wanted to terrorize the community again. 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:40.240 On January seventeenth, two thousand and four, the Wichita Eagle 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:46.200 newspaper ran an article titled BTK Case Unsolved thirty years later. 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:48.080 Here is an excerpt. 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:52.520 It was a routine followed by thousands of wichital women 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:56.919 in the late nineteen seventies. Upon arriving home, checked the 0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:01.960 phone immediately. If the line is dead, get out. What 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.479 made the case frightenedly different for city residents was the 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.560 fact that the killer sent several taunting letters about the 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:11.400