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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 2: A lot of artists and a lot of people get

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Speaker 2: pigeonholed all the time, and I've always hated that concept

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Speaker 2: of pigeonholding. I don't understand it. I don't see the

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Speaker 2: logic behind it, you know. For me, art his art,

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Speaker 2: photography is photography. Music is music. It doesn't matter what

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Speaker 2: genre or where it comes from.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, where Buzz Night

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Speaker 1: explores the lives and legacies of artists of all kinds,

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Speaker 1: and today is no exception as Buzz is joined by

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Speaker 1: Julian Lennon, whose life has been shaped by his legacy,

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Speaker 1: his personal exploration, and his advocacy. Julian's carved a path

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Speaker 1: in the music and philanthropic world which continues to leave

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Speaker 1: an indelible mark in both worlds. He emerged as an

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Speaker 1: artist at an early age, working not only in music,

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Speaker 1: but in the world of photography as well. He continues

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Speaker 1: to push the boundaries of his creative and artistic side

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Speaker 1: while continuing to focus on his commitment to environmental conservation

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Speaker 1: through the White Feather Foundation, which he founded in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven. Julian has carved a path which is

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Speaker 1: fascinating and he joins Buzznight on this episode of Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk.

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Speaker 3: Right now, Julian, congratulations on your new photography book, Life's

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Speaker 3: Fragile Moments. I'm so grateful that you're on Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 4: Can you tell me how excited you are to get

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Speaker 4: this out for the world to enjoy it?

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Speaker 2: Very very excited, And you know, it's it's been many

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Speaker 2: years in the making. In fact, you know, I had

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Speaker 2: hoped to have done in a book sooner, but you know,

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Speaker 2: certain things happen at certain times for certain reasons, and

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Speaker 2: I think certainly this was an opportune time, and the publisher,

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Speaker 2: to Noise, you know, came to me earlier this year

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Speaker 2: approached me to do a book, and you know, they said,

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Speaker 2: what do you think, what would you consider? You know,

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Speaker 2: what do you how do you want to approach this?

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Speaker 2: And I said, well, listen, the reality is is that

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Speaker 2: the majority of the people out there don't even know

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Speaker 2: I'm a photographer, a find out photographer. So for me,

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Speaker 2: the best way forward that I can see is that

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Speaker 2: the book is a retrospective of sorts, or should I say,

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Speaker 2: an overview of the better work from all the collections

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Speaker 2: that I've done over the years to give people an

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Speaker 2: indication of what I get up to when I'm behind

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Speaker 2: the camera. It was a very very difficult project to

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Speaker 2: work on with very little time. And I'll explain why.

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Speaker 2: Is that we had I had the opportunity to do

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Speaker 2: the book, and I also have an opportunity to do

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Speaker 2: the biggest exhibition of ever done and a museum exhibition

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Speaker 2: in Venice over the past couple of months alongside the

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Speaker 2: b and rl aids. So I had the opportunity of

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Speaker 2: doing both of these sins so, but they were separate projects,

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Speaker 2: but I wanted to bring them together so that the

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Speaker 2: book would release at the same time as the exhibition

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Speaker 2: was going to come about, et cetera, et cetera. That's

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Speaker 2: why when I agree to this, that the that it

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Speaker 2: became a really tough cookie to work on on a

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Speaker 2: number of levels because in order to get the book finished, edited,

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Speaker 2: published in time for the opening of the exhibition, we

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Speaker 2: had to work on it yesterday. All I can say

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Speaker 2: is I was very thankful for the publishers and the

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Speaker 2: and the art director Yan because he was a lovely guy. Now,

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine trying to work in a virtual world

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Speaker 2: or like this, because the publishing company was based in

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Speaker 2: Berlin and I'm elsewhere, so we had to work through

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Speaker 2: mediums like this, and so editing down hundreds, if not

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Speaker 2: thousands of images for this book was very, very painful,

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Speaker 2: and the reason being was the fact that a lot

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Speaker 2: of my earlier collections especially were anywhere between thirty and

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Speaker 2: fifty photographs, and those were from thousands edited down from thousands.

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Speaker 2: So being told that we need to take fifty images

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Speaker 2: and make them five images to represent that collection was

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Speaker 2: a daunting, daunting prospect. But the editing process, although very

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Speaker 2: very scary at the beginning, became a real learning tool

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Speaker 2: in how to really focus, how to really express the

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Speaker 2: important stuff and the important images from such a vast choice,

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Speaker 2: and so going through all the different collections, it was

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Speaker 2: certainly tough at the beginning, but as time went on

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Speaker 2: and we only had a few weeks to do this,

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Speaker 2: and this was literally nine hours a day based the

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Speaker 2: face with my artistic director Jan going through the files

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Speaker 2: and folders, barely enough time for the bathroom or a

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Speaker 2: cup of fee dare I say, and never mind food.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, an incredible learning

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Speaker 2: process and I think, I mean, I'm beyond happy. I

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Speaker 2: mean I was almost almost tearful when when I first

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Speaker 2: this is the first one that came off the pretz

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Speaker 2: and was in my suitcase. It's a little damage, but

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Speaker 2: I still kiss it every once in a while, like

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Speaker 2: the Belani stone, you know, for good luck, because I

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Speaker 2: can't believe, you know, that I've finally done it. You know,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't sure it would ever happen. So to have

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Speaker 2: the biggest exhibition, museum exhibition I've ever done and the

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Speaker 2: book out at the same time is so so special.

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Speaker 2: And you know, again it's been available since the exhibition

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Speaker 2: over in Europe, but you know, just going to become

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Speaker 2: available in the US early December. So I'm you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm very very excited for people to see

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Speaker 2: this stuff. You know. You know, it's a lot of blood,

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Speaker 2: sweat and tears, believe it or not, over the years

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Speaker 2: in trying to do the best job I can what

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Speaker 2: I do, and you know, to take on another medium

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Speaker 2: like photography, you know, there are always a lot of naysayers,

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Speaker 2: but again I think you just bury your head in

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Speaker 2: the work, get on with the creativity, get on with

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Speaker 2: the focus of what you want the end result to be.

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Speaker 2: And I couldn't be happier. And I think the title

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Speaker 2: represents the book and its contents remarkably well. It was

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Speaker 2: not my title, although it is a lyric title from

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Speaker 2: a song of mine called Disconnected, But Life's Fragile Moments

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Speaker 2: really did represent all of the elements that we see

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Speaker 2: in the book, all of the different collections, the flow,

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Speaker 2: the feel of the book, the over the overview, and

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Speaker 2: the overall feel of it. So I think I think

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Speaker 2: it's worked really well. And you know, so far so good.

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Speaker 2: I was so far so good.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know it's going to make a great Christmas gift,

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Speaker 3: certainly for.

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Speaker 2: You say so. If you say so, I didn't say that.

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Speaker 3: I definitely say that. And for me it's going to

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Speaker 3: make a great one to give to my wife, who

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Speaker 3: happens to be a photographer and is an amazing fan

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Speaker 3: of your work.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you kindly. That's lovely to hear. That's lovely

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Speaker 2: to hear. Funnily enough, I'm always surprised to hear that.

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Speaker 2: It's a weird thing, you know. I've always related that

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Speaker 2: to music obviously in the past, that people like what

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Speaker 2: you do, but then hearing it about your photography is

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Speaker 2: I mean it's the most pleasant thing I could ever hear.

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Speaker 2: Believe you me. But again, I've worked hard at this

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Speaker 2: and I think there's some good stuff in there, you

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Speaker 2: know that. I'm very proud, very proud.

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Speaker 3: I want to come back to photography, but I do

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Speaker 3: want to talk about you being throughout your career sort

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Speaker 3: of a master of multiple you know, wonderful pieces of work,

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Speaker 3: whether it be your film, whether it be music, whether

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Speaker 3: it be the children's book aspect of things. Did you

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Speaker 3: get this diverse set of interests early.

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Speaker 2: On in life? You know, I've always been interested. I've

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Speaker 2: been always been a bit scatter brains as well. I

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Speaker 2: mean they call it adhd these days or whatever. Add

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Speaker 2: I'm all over the place all the time. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've always found you know, if I if I can't

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Speaker 2: find a way forward with one thing, or I need

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Speaker 2: a temporary break from it to breathe, that I can't

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Speaker 2: just sit around on a beach twiddle in my thumbs.

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Speaker 2: I have to find something else to do. You know.

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Speaker 2: Photography became a major player in that and that in

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Speaker 2: that way. Yeah, it's it's whenever I found myself at

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Speaker 2: a loose end or I need a diversion, diversionary tactic

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Speaker 2: just so I can come back to things. And I

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Speaker 2: think the same thing with also it works with, you know,

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Speaker 2: writing books, and the same thing works with putting collections

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Speaker 2: together or even editing documentary films. It's that same kind

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Speaker 2: of thing. And I've always enjoyed doing multiple things. I

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Speaker 2: think I lose my mind if I just stayed the

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Speaker 2: one course. And you know, the fact of the matter is,

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Speaker 2: even though I took you know, very large breaks in

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Speaker 2: between a number of albums in the past to actually

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Speaker 2: live and breathe again, you know, I did over thirty

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Speaker 2: years of my life doing music, and I thought, you know,

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Speaker 2: to have an opportunity to work on another medium that

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Speaker 2: interests me that I can still be creative with. And

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Speaker 2: also the reality being for the first time ever I

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Speaker 2: could be behind the lens was something that I really

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Speaker 2: really enjoyed because I you know, I can do the

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Speaker 2: in front of the camera stuff, but it's not my

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Speaker 2: favorite thing to do. It really isn't, and I'm much

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Speaker 2: much happier behind the behind the camera lens and behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes. You know, I don't mind coming out and

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Speaker 2: saying lifting the rock up and waving every once in

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Speaker 2: a while, but that's personally as far as my level

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Speaker 2: of happiness in life or contentment, that's that's where I

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Speaker 2: prefer to be. So I'm still working, I'm still doing

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Speaker 2: all of these jobs, wearing all of these hats, but

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Speaker 2: just in a different way than I did for and

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Speaker 2: more focused on the work and the creativity rather than

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Speaker 2: what's expected from the outside. You know.

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Speaker 3: So you kind of were reading my mind from my

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Speaker 3: next question, a perfect day for you in terms of happiness,

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Speaker 3: It sounds like just being incredibly busy and working on

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Speaker 3: multiple things is a perfect day. Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: Pretty much?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, on the creative front, yeah, I do find and

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Speaker 2: I have to say this, and you know, I have

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Speaker 2: an incredible manager, Rebecca, who I work with these days.

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Speaker 2: It's more of a partnership. You know, we discuss everything beforehand.

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Speaker 2: But more often than not, you know, you can tend

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Speaker 2: to have to deal with a lot of admin with

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Speaker 2: many many art forms. I'm not one also to just

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Speaker 2: say no, you're go and take care of that, you know,

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Speaker 2: as a manager or otherwise. Yeah, I have to be

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Speaker 2: part of the process all the way down the line. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: the admin can bog you down sometimes. I mean there's

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Speaker 2: been days before Rebecca came along, where I was micromanaging myself.

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Speaker 2: I'd literally wake up in the morning and there'd be

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Speaker 2: one hundred emails at my desk, and as I'm working

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Speaker 2: through that, you know, I'd finish the first thirty and

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Speaker 2: you know, want to go and get a cup of tea,

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Speaker 2: a cup of coffee, and by the time I come back,

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Speaker 2: there's another thirty to fifty emails. And it was this,

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Speaker 2: It became this endless, insane cycle of where's the creativity,

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Speaker 2: you know, where's the main focus of what this is

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Speaker 2: all about. For me, that's been crucial for me to

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Speaker 2: keep an eye on that and an eye on the

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Speaker 2: balance of keeping that where it should be, keeping the

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Speaker 2: ad still doing it, but keeping it at bay because

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Speaker 2: it's been so admin orientated over the last few years

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Speaker 2: with exhibitions and books and there. I mean, the creative

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Speaker 2: elements of that have been exciting but exhausting too. But

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Speaker 2: I really want to look to the future, especially you know,

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Speaker 2: beginning with next year really and think about what I

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Speaker 2: want to create and where I want to go and

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Speaker 2: what I want to do, you know, get back to

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Speaker 2: that again, because without that element of it, there's nothing,

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Speaker 2: you know, and to me, that's everything the creative aspect

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Speaker 2: and the great thing and the fortunate thing I guess

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Speaker 2: that I can throw at you at this point in

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Speaker 2: regards to all of this stuff is that. And I'm

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Speaker 2: very fortunate in this regard is that most of the

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Speaker 2: projects that have come along again do no matter what medium,

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Speaker 2: have all been organic, you know, and all all felt

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Speaker 2: right at the right time. I've only ever followed through

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Speaker 2: and what on what my gut tells me these days

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Speaker 2: and what my heart tells me, you know, too many

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Speaker 2: times I've been let astray and taking them up down

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Speaker 2: the wrong road, and I just it's it's it's it's

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Speaker 2: not worth it. It's really not worth it to be unhappy

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day or or or have

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Speaker 2: too many regrets, you know. And I, you know, I

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Speaker 2: feel privileged being an artist as such in all these mediums,

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Speaker 2: and and again fortunate that I'm able to do so

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Speaker 2: many things, and that in it in of itself is inspiring.

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Speaker 3: So creative blocks. I'm sure when you hit a creative block,

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Speaker 3: you probably could go get a cup of tea, go

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Speaker 3: get a cup of coffee, whatever. But since this podcast

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Speaker 3: is called taking a walk, do you take a block.

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Speaker 2: To That's what I do. That's exactly what I do. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've also you know, I dealt with my fair amount

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Speaker 2: of depression in my time too, and I still deal

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Speaker 2: with a fair amount of anxiety on occasion where I

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Speaker 2: do biil ultimately overwhelmed by you know, I almost almost

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Speaker 2: have that sense of agoraphobia where I can't really leave

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Speaker 2: the house. I don't feel like I can leave the house.

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Speaker 2: And the one thing I know I should do when

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Speaker 2: I feel like that is leave that house. So even

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Speaker 2: if that's to go and get you know, some milk

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Speaker 2: or some bread, or get a newspaper or But you know,

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Speaker 2: I also I was never really one. I was never

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Speaker 2: a gym guy. I never liked the you know, no thanks,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think, to be honest, if you're active

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Speaker 2: in your life anyway, if you move a lot anyway,

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Speaker 2: that's enough for me. You know, I live and carry

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Speaker 2: heavy stuff around all the time. But the walking aspect

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Speaker 2: of it has absolutely become a priority for me. You know,

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Speaker 2: A lot of that can be weather dependent, especially you know,

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Speaker 2: if there's not a good spell of weather for a

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Speaker 2: week or two, you can get a bit down on

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Speaker 2: yourself for that but again the monk, I feel that anxiety.

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Speaker 2: Come on, I go, I've got to get out, I've

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Speaker 2: got to walk. And whether that's in the mountains, you know,

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Speaker 2: I normally I would have to take like a ten

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Speaker 2: minute drive just to get to a location that is

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Speaker 2: beautiful to walk, So that would be up in the

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Speaker 2: mountains or down by the sea, walking along some peninsula,

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Speaker 2: and also without question taking the camera along with me,

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Speaker 2: you know, because you know, you just never never know

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Speaker 2: when you're going to be inspired one way or the other.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, at minim three times a week for a

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Speaker 2: good a good while, you know, and generally a power walk.

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Speaker 2: But I'm always inspired when I do that, and I

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Speaker 2: always I'm able to breathe and feel free and alive

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Speaker 2: and in the moment again to be able to go

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Speaker 2: back in and go right where we at, you know,

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Speaker 2: and get stuck in again.

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Speaker 3: I love the teachings of the late Vietnamese monk Ik

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Speaker 3: not Hahn, who is so wonderful, and he talks about

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Speaker 3: it in terms of you know, savoring the moment, really,

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Speaker 3: and I think taking that walk allows you to savor

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Speaker 3: a moment as well, don't you think.

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Speaker 2: I think it's probably the only time in the day,

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Speaker 2: bar actually waking up and before you go to bed,

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Speaker 2: and your mind, you know, reels you know about life

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Speaker 2: on your day. I think the walking element is really

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Speaker 2: where you are present, completely present. And again for me,

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Speaker 2: I have to I would have to say it's not

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Speaker 2: dissimilar to how I started and when I started taking photographs,

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Speaker 2: which is back in the old days with long haul flights,

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Speaker 2: you know, to America and back in Asia, you know,

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Speaker 2: and the and the old days, you know, you only

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Speaker 2: had one movie on a projector on the middle of

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Speaker 2: the plane. Once that was ober, you're done. We didn't

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Speaker 2: have anything to gains and things to play with. We

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Speaker 2: didn't have, you know, fifty other films to watch or

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Speaker 2: do it. Most people would go to sleep, but I

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Speaker 2: could never for the sleep on the plane, and I

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Speaker 2: would always stare out the window at the clouds, whether

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Speaker 2: that was you know, at night or you know, the

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Speaker 2: sunsets or sunrises, and I'd always be you know, I

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Speaker 2: started taking photographs of the clouds because I thought, these

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Speaker 2: are fleeting moments, These last for a second, they will

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Speaker 2: never be the same again. It's just like our lives.

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Speaker 2: So it taught me to be present in the moment

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Speaker 2: and appreciate what was going on at any different point

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Speaker 2: in time. But it also allowed I think and that

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Speaker 2: the same for me is true of walking, is that

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Speaker 2: it's a moment where you can do one of two things.

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Speaker 2: You can either empty your mind, blow all the cobwebs out,

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Speaker 2: not think about anything, breathe it all in and just

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Speaker 2: look at the scenery around you and appreciate it. Or

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Speaker 2: it gives you an opportunity away from everything else to

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Speaker 2: clearly think about what you're doing, what you know, your

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Speaker 2: pros and your cons in life, How are you moving

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Speaker 2: you know, how are you moving forward? Et cetera, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. So and I think you can achieve both.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can actually go in with a headful

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Speaker 2: of questions and at the end of it come away,

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Speaker 2: you know, with a balance and being able to breathe

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Speaker 2: without that stress. I think it without questions a major

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Speaker 2: stress reliever, you know. And I throw a lot of

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Speaker 2: stress on my shoulders, I really do, because I want

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Speaker 2: the work that I'm doing to be the best and

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Speaker 2: it can be. So I'm always, you know, on myself,

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Speaker 2: so that walking, those walking moments are very very special,

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Speaker 2: have become all of the most important thing of my

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Speaker 2: day really because it allows me to do everything else.

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Speaker 2: So I want to.

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Speaker 3: Talk musical influences if I can, And obviously the Beatles

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Speaker 3: are a major influence in your life. Do you have

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Speaker 3: particular albums or periods of the Beatles or songs that

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Speaker 3: are you know, most important to you.

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Speaker 2: In general? No, not as such. I mean there's there's

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Speaker 2: there's a few artists. I mean, yeah, occasionally I'll catch

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Speaker 2: Beatle stuff, you know, on the radio, I mean, because

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Speaker 2: they're still playing it all the bloody time. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I have a few key artists that I love, and

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Speaker 2: I've mentioned these guys many times. You know, it's you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like Keith Jarrett, the Clone Concert, Steely Dan pick

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Speaker 2: An album on. It's like you know that that I

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Speaker 2: will always go back to and listen to, you know,

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Speaker 2: if if, if they come to mind. But in general,

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Speaker 2: I have to say that on a listening front, especially

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Speaker 2: when I'm working here in front of the computer and

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Speaker 2: more often than not editing collections and photographs and bring

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Speaker 2: things together, I'll have I'll have the radio on, and

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Speaker 2: I do have a particular face. I don't know whether

347
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Speaker 2: I should mention it or not, but you know you

348
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Speaker 2: can edit it out, but absolutely not.

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Speaker 3: I won't.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm a particular fan and have been for ten

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Speaker 2: years plus now since I've learned of the station. It's

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Speaker 2: called the CACRW Eclectic twenty four, and I always have

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Speaker 2: it on in the background because it always has independent,

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Speaker 2: new up and coming artists, but generally artists that are

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Speaker 2: really creative, really melodic, really unique, and stuff you just

356
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Speaker 2: don't get to hear on regular radio these days. You know,

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Speaker 2: you're either still dealing with the same kind of top twenty,

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Speaker 2: top forty scenario, or you're not hearing any other new,

359
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: interesting music unless it's a particular station for seventies rock

360
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Speaker 2: and roll you know, or you know you name it.

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Speaker 2: So at least that station gives me a wide variety

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Speaker 2: of new artists that comes through that. It's generally how

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Speaker 2: I learn of new musicians, new singers, and new artists

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Speaker 2: that I become a fan of. And you know, once

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Speaker 2: I hear that, use the apt to figure out who

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Speaker 2: it is, you know, and then I'll go and find

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Speaker 2: their album and I'll put that on a play. And

368
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Speaker 2: one of those guys that once you find a good album,

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Speaker 2: that are it will be on repeat for the next

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Speaker 2: three months until I really I've had enough, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I'll still always be a fan. But yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've got a couple of key favorites like that.

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Speaker 3: I think you're the only person I've ever spoken to

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Speaker 3: who can say they're a range of music that they

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Speaker 3: like Spanskeith Jarrett to a C.

376
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Speaker 2: D C. Well why not listen? Why? You know, as

377
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Speaker 2: you can imagine, I think that a lot of artists

378
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Speaker 2: and a lot of people get pigeonholed all the time.

379
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Speaker 2: And I've always hated that concept of pigeonholing. I don't

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Speaker 2: understand it. I don't see the logic behind it. You know.

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Speaker 2: For me, artist art, photography is photography. Music is music.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what genre or where it comes from.

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Speaker 2: If if it gets you feeling at all, whether that's energized,

384
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 2: or whether that's emotional, or whether that's deep thinking or

385
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: I think everything should be available to you. That's that's

386
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: why again that I wear many hats. I don't. I

387
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 2: don't want to be in a box. Who says you

388
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: have to be in a box? No, thank you. You know,

389
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Speaker 2: if you've got the will and the mind to go

390
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Speaker 2: for it, then you should go for it. And certainly

391
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Speaker 2: that's what I've done, you know, And that's why I

392
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: love every kind of genre of music. But you know,

393
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: there's not much I don't like, you know, I just happened.

394
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: I take a lot of kids in their early teens,

395
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Speaker 2: especially from my era, certainly loved, you know, some serious

396
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Speaker 2: rock and roll, whether it's you know, a heavy metal

397
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: to a degree as well, but you know, the Ozzy Osbourne.

398
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Speaker 2: The list goes on. But ac DC were the first

399
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: band that I ever saw live at the age of sixteen,

400
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: and that was when Bond Scott was singing back in

401
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: the day and Angus was on his shoulders. That was

402
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: a memorable time, you know, and hey they're still going

403
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: strong today. It just shows you that, you know, the

404
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 2: good stuff sticks around, you know. Yeah, I love it.

405
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: I first met you in nineteen eighty four when Volot

406
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Speaker 3: came out and.

407
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: To another lifetime.

408
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,479
Speaker 3: It was a lifetime for me as well. But I

409
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 3: was so just impressed with you on how in control

410
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: of the situation you were with all the you know,

411
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 3: pressure you had to be your own person, and yeah,

412
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 3: obviously then coming into the limelight, how did you make

413
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: it look so easy.

414
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Speaker 2: I don't know about that. Well. Number one, I think

415
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: it was so shy for the most part that I

416
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: kept pretty quiet and pretty much to myself. I think,

417
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: and I've mentioned this a number of times before, that

418
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: you know, I had to look to the only person

419
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: who really I respect and loved throughout my life, which

420
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 2: was my mother Cynthia, you know, and I watched her

421
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: go through what she had to go through in the

422
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: public eye with grace and such poise and elegance. She

423
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: just showed me that no matter what they throw at you,

424
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: just keep on keeping on and be strong and believe

425
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 2: that you're worth it. Yeah. I know that sounds like

426
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: a hair commercial these days, but I think you understand

427
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's just, yeah, yeah, what other way

428
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: out is there? You know? You you either deal with

429
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: things gracefully and move forward, or it becomes a negative

430
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: and it becomes distractive and it becomes and then why

431
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: are you there in the first place. So, you know,

432
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: it was just a question of learn as you go along,

433
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: try and hold it, hold it all together, and just

434
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: do it the best job you can. And that's all

435
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: I've ever tried to do, really, you know, I think

436
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: a lot of the problems in retrospect that happened, you know,

437
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: was the industry itself. That's why I got out of

438
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: it so many times. Because sure, the creativity, the work,

439
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: the recording and the live performance were all joys. But

440
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: again the admin, the people behind the scenes, and what

441
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: was what they were trying to get out of you,

442
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: that was another story altogether, you know. And I have

443
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: to say that, you know, there were few and far

444
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: between good people in the industry, and that's just being

445
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: absolutely honest, you know. You know, there's always a good few,

446
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: you know, but the hard to find someone who was

447
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: true to themselves and to everybody else.

448
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a

449
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.

450
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 5: Well, you had a couple of people, though, who were

451
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 5: your core background, if you will, your core foundation back then.

452
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 6: One is your your lifelong friend Justin right, Justin Layton,

453
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 6: and then also for that work in eighty four, Phil Ramone.

454
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 6: Can you talk about both of them? I mean, obviously

455
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 6: you still work and collaborate with Justin, but talk about

456
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 6: what those two lads meant to you then and mean

457
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 6: to you now.

458
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean Justin and I met when we were

459
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: eleven years old, so we go way back. I mean

460
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: literally touch every other day because you know, just briefly,

461
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: the last album, Jude was made up of songs from

462
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: thirty years ago and relatively new songs, and we've been

463
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: working for five years trying to make those older songs

464
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: sound new.

465
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 3: By the way, Julian, I think, yeah, I think I

466
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: think that that album deserves more recognition by the public.

467
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 3: I think it's fantastic, thank you.

468
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: I just don't think enough people have got to hear it.

469
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: And again, I you know, I don't want to say

470
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: that's the label's fault, but I did everything I could

471
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: to get it out there, that's for sure. But yeah,

472
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: Justin and I are still working. We still have boxes

473
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: of old tracks that we're well. I mean, I said

474
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: I'd never do another album last time, but I think

475
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: really this last album, Jude, was the last. But that

476
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: doesn't mean I'm stopping by any means. I mean, I'm

477
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: planning to release like a three to five song EP

478
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: of stuff that we're working on right now that I

479
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: would say is more in tune with a little more Indie,

480
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: a little more Pretenders meets XTC. So I'm looking to

481
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: have a little bit of fun the tracks that they

482
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: are already, so we're just it's just about finishing and

483
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: cleaning them up a bit. But Justin and I, you know,

484
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: I take all friends and family members go through their

485
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: ups and downs, and I'm not going to say it

486
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: was always roses with everybody, I mean anybody and everybody

487
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: in life. That happens. But we're still hanging in there

488
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: forty years later, for fifty years later. Oh don't even

489
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 2: get me counting. So and I'm happy for that, you know,

490
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 2: I'm happy that we're still you know, he really is

491
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: my oldest friend and I trust him musically. He's a

492
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: great producer, is a great engineer, a great say, a

493
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: great writer and performer.

494
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 6: Phil.

495
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: Of course, it meant the world to me when you know,

496
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: Atlantic back in the day asked me, you know who

497
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: I'd love to produce the first album, and I said

498
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: Film Ramone due to Billy Joel's Nylon Curtain album, which

499
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 2: there was some beatlesque elements to that, but there was

500
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: a quality in his writing and the production that I

501
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: just fell in love with. And then I just remember

502
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: receiving a phone call from Phil Ramone, you know about

503
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: working together which I was shocked. You know, I was

504
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: still a naive young kid at that point in time. Again,

505
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: we've all had our demons in the past, and Phil

506
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: certainly had a fair amount of those. Two One of

507
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: the things that saddens me the most was the fact that,

508
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: you know, his dear wife Karen had lupus. And I

509
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: became the US ambassador for the Loopers Foundation of America

510
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: because my dear friend Lucy, who was the Lucy in

511
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: the Sky with Diamonds, died of lupus. And at the

512
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: last event that I was at for the Loopers Foundation

513
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: of America in New York, I didn't know Phil's wife

514
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: Karen had loopas and she was there, and he was there,

515
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: and it had been the first time I had seen

516
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: him in years. I'd run in term before and the

517
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: relationship was a bit old. But we saw each other

518
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: at the at this at this Garla event in New York,

519
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: and it was like falling in love again because we

520
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 2: got on so well, and we'd missed each other so

521
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: much that we talked about, you know, getting back in

522
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 2: the studio together. I was longing for that. And then,

523
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: of course it wasn't long after that that he sadly passed,

524
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: which was a real, real shocker to me because I

525
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: felt like it was a book that was never finished.

526
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: The pages had closed on us too soon, which was

527
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: a real shame because I felt we had more to

528
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: do together.

529
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: You know, I want to talk about the White Feather Foundation,

530
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 3: and you're great, sure work there, and so would first

531
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 3: would you tell the amazing story about the weight Feather,

532
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: about what your dad said to you, and then how

533
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 3: you came upon the weight feather ultimately.

534
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'll tell that in reverse order. But yeah.

535
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 2: So I was in Australia. I had a number one

536
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: song at the time called Saltwater, which is an environmental song,

537
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: which did very well around the world except America, but

538
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 2: that's another story. Anyway. I was in Adelaide. We were

539
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 2: on a promotel but playing live shows too, and I

540
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 2: was approached in the hotel by an indigenous group called

541
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: the Morning People, and they wanted to see me down

542
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: in the lobby. I thought, what's this about. I thought

543
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: it was a joker. At first, I thought it was

544
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: a prank. The management said, no, no, mister Lenna, there's

545
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: an Aboriginal group down here with some TV crews and

546
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: a number of people and they really would like to

547
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 2: see you. And I said, all right, well, I don't

548
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: know what this is about, but I'll go down and

549
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: I the elevator opens and there's this one step up

550
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: onto this sort of platform, and all these people and

551
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: are going, oh, what is this about? And the elder

552
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: who is this woman called Iris, she was the elder

553
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 2: of the tribe. She walks up to me and it's

554
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: on camera, it's on film, and she presents me with

555
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: a white feather. It's a male swan's white feather. It's

556
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: about fifteen inches long, something like that. And she said

557
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: to me, you know, can you help us? You have

558
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: a voice, or you have a voice, can you help us?

559
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: And it was that point in time that I thought, well,

560
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: or do I continue being a rock and roller or

561
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: do I step up to the plate. The real thing

562
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: about this, and the real reason I got I did

563
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 2: step up to the playton that I got goose bumps

564
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: at this moment in time was the fact that Dad

565
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 2: had said to me. And I couldn't tell you where

566
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 2: or when or what time it was. It just wasn't

567
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: one of those things. But it was clear as day

568
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: that he said to me listen, if something happens to

569
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: me to let you know that I'm going to be okay,

570
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: or that we're all going to be okay. It's going

571
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: to be It'll be in the form of a white feather.

572
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 2: And so when I received that white feather, to me,

573
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 2: that was undeniable truth, undeniable connection with the spiritual world.

574
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: I'm not a religious guy, but spiritual yes. So from that,

575
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: you know, I went away and thought about the situation,

576
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 2: and I learned about the plight of that particular indigenous tribe,

577
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 2: and then the indigenous tribes all across the globe, I

578
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 2: mean like eighty different tribes, and a major documentary about

579
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: them called Whale Dreamers. It took ten years. We weren't supported,

580
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: and we didn't have sponsors, but we weren't about eight

581
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: International Independent Film Awards, and I thought, you know, if

582
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: this film does any good or make some money, you know,

583
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: I want the money to go back to the indigenous

584
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: tribe so that they can keep hold of their culture

585
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: and buy back their lands that they've been kicked off of,

586
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. And the only way I could

587
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: do that back in those days was to actually do

588
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: it through a Foundation. Hence the White Feather Foundation was born.

589
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: So the moment the Internet came about, you know, I

590
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 2: set up a web page to sell the film and

591
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 2: you know, on video tape and the vds. Eventually, and

592
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, I'd start getting these

593
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 2: emails saying, well, can you help us? And can you

594
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: help us? And I'm going, oh, hold on, I said, listen,

595
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not really a foundation. This is a

596
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: vehicle for the film if the film makes money to

597
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: help the indigenous. But then after so many I've started thinking, well,

598
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 2: you know again, I've got a platform here. I should

599
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: I should use it to help those who have no voice, basically,

600
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: and so I decided that the Whiteside the Foundation should

601
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: be something. It should be more than just that. And

602
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: that's when I decided to follow through on subjects that

603
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: affected me the most. Number one was indigenous causes around

604
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: the world. Number two clean water. I don't care how

605
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 2: many charities there are claiming to do or doing clean water.

606
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: Everybody deserve to have clean water. So we help where

607
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: we can. We work with NGOs around the world doing

608
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 2: whatever we can, all based on donations by the public,

609
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: by the way, so it's thanks to my fans and

610
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: people out there that see what we're doing, who donate

611
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: fifty cents a dollar, every penny makes a difference. The

612
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: other things have been health, clinics and schools. So health

613
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: and education is another one of our causes. I mean,

614
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 2: I always tend to believe that we are. We're not

615
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: a big foundation. We never went that route. I never

616
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: wanted to do that. But what they do feel that

617
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: we do is that a lot of causes, a lot

618
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 2: of people get lost between the cracks. What the White

619
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: Feather Foundation tries to do is catch those pauses and

620
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 2: again help those people without a voice. Again, thanks to

621
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: our audience that we get things done. When Mum passed away,

622
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: I decided to do a scholarship in her name, the

623
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 2: Cynthia Lena Scholarship for Girls, where we put young girls

624
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 2: from Africa and around the world in fact, but predominantly

625
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 2: in Africa through a college and university. Many of them

626
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 2: that I spoke to want to go back to their

627
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: little towns and protect be lawyers, to help protect their

628
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: families and their friends from the villages that they came from.

629
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: You know.

630
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: So it's a nice circle that how that operates. But yeah,

631
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: so it's always been a very important thing. And the

632
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 2: only other thing I'll say about it is that whatever

633
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 2: hat I'm wearing, if I'm making any money, then a

634
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: proportion of whatever I make, whether it's the book sales,

635
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 2: whether it's the documentary, whether it's the music or the

636
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 2: children's books, proportion of the money that I make certainly

637
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: goes to the White Feather Foundation to keep it ticking along.

638
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: Certain pay everybody that works there, you know, you know,

639
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: but that's that's that's how we that's how we roll.

640
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: And again thanks for the donations, because without people we

641
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: you know, we wouldn't exist. Bravo, bravo.

642
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: So you mentioned though spirituality back there, and I produce

643
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: this other podcast. It's called Music Save Me. It's about

644
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 3: the healing power of music.

645
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 2: Bro.

646
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 3: You personally believe music has healing powers.

647
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that without question, without question. I can't be precise

648
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: in how it does that, but certainly with certain sounds,

649
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 2: moods tones, uh elevations, arrangements, styles, you can certainly be

650
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 2: lifted out of the doldrums. You can certainly become more

651
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: introspective and be able to work on yourself through that

652
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: mode as well. Yeah, I mean music It's not my

653
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 2: go to on a personal level, but certainly there'll be

654
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 2: moments where I just decide that I want to sit

655
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 2: down and I'll say, you know, I'll just open the

656
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: windows and open the doors and play a bit of music,

657
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: and that again will well allow me what I will

658
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: now call a cloud moment, which is where you find

659
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: those moments of peace and think about nothing or you

660
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 2: think about everything you know. And I think just having

661
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: that connection alone allows you to move forward and be

662
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 2: motivated and make some important decisions in life. So yeah,

663
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: it definitely music affects your rhythm, your soul, your heart,

664
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: your mind absolutely without question.

665
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 3: Can you take me back to your first experiences with

666
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 3: a camera?

667
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 2: The first I recall, well, it's a bit difficult to say,

668
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 2: but because I just remember as a kid that pretty

669
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: much every family on the planet, whether they had a

670
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 2: real camera or whether they had one of those throwaway

671
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: cameras that used to buy at the pharmacy or the airport,

672
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: you know, and you take it back the next day

673
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: and they print it out for you. You know those

674
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: you know, those those were take for taking a snap

675
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: of a moment in time, They weren't, you know, you

676
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 2: weren't focusing, you weren't dealing with any of the technical

677
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: aspects of it. Yeah, I remember used to that I

678
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: used to have one of those, or Mum used to have,

679
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: or we we shared the camera. I think the first

680
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 2: time a camera became relevant a tool was probably visiting

681
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: Dad in I think it was in New York. I

682
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: know that there were cameras around, and I know that

683
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 2: also when he had his lost weekend with May May

684
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: Pang that you know, she was a photographer, so so

685
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: there were cameras around. But I think the one thing,

686
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: and it's swunny I was talking about this before, the

687
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: one thing that excited me the most was the camera

688
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: that Dad had called the Polaroid SX seventy land camera,

689
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: which is the one I have here. The reason I

690
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: was intrigued about this because I was fascinated by its

691
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: look and it's feel and how it unfolded and from

692
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: a flat block became this really quite unique camera. And

693
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: I loved the fact that you didn't have to do

694
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 2: any developing and you see, so I I fell in

695
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 2: love with this cament and played around with it. A

696
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: lot of many many filed away pictures, a lot of

697
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: black and white high contrasts, but color stuff too. But

698
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 2: and then I kind of that kind of fell to

699
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 2: the wayside, and I was far more involved in music

700
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: again Da da da da da. But I think when

701
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: the true interest in photography came back for me. Although

702
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: I did try working with film and camera, but I

703
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: was a bit bumby on that front. And although I

704
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: have great patience for some things, I have little for others.

705
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: So fiddling around with film and keep trying to get

706
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: that right, oh no, and blowing, you know, and losing

707
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: the pictures and the express So when digital came along,

708
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 2: digital cameras, I went, there you go, there we go that.

709
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 2: That's that's for me. That's when I fell in love

710
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: with the taking pictures again and the fact that it

711
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: was that instant gratification of knowing that you'd got something

712
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: pretty much straight away. And then my job, my challenge

713
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: to myself was how do I make digital pictures look

714
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: like their film? That was something that I worked on

715
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: for a number of years in trying to finesse digital

716
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 2: photography to look like real film. How the realization of

717
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 2: what I was doing was the right thing came along

718
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: was I was part of a writ Hoop exhibition in

719
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: Amsterdam of a number of British photographers, and I was

720
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: cornered by this fine art critic from America, this older lady,

721
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: and she'd cornered me from some time, and that I

722
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: couldn't get out of the conversation. I was a bit

723
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: shy anyway. At the end of it, she said to me, so,

724
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: you know, tell me do you work with film or digital?

725
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: And I went, you tell me. I realized at that

726
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: point in time that I'd done it, you know, that

727
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 2: I'd risen to that challenge. And so from that point on,

728
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: I just tried to do better and better and better

729
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: and better. Each every time I'm doing photography work from

730
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: now on is trying to finesse it that much more,

731
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 2: that much more relatable, that much more focused. And again,

732
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: doing the photography book and the exhibition really was a

733
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: learning curve on how to be more focused and more

734
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: precious about the work that you're delivering. How can you

735
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: tell the same story of fifty images in five images?

736
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: You know that kind of thing. It really helped me

737
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: hone my craft more than before, having done the book

738
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: and the exhibition. So that was with a win win

739
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 2: for me, that all that hard work there was a

740
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: I learned a lot from that.

741
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 3: Do you have a go to camera for those quick

742
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 3: walks that you can, you know, just sort of have

743
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: with you Just.

744
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: Hate to say it. I hate to say it. You know,

745
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 2: even well known photographers that I know that love their

746
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: cameras admit that sometimes you just take a shot on

747
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: your phone and the quality these days is almost, not

748
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: quite but almost as equal to a good camera. You know,

749
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: you don't quite have the lens quality, or quite the

750
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 2: depth of field, and many few other things, but certainly

751
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 2: you can nab some pretty down good shots on your phone.

752
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 2: And obviously the ease of just having it in your pocket,

753
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: it just makes for a lot easier, I'm afraid to say,

754
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, they're so far ahead now that

755
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 2: people are doing movies on their phones. You know, it's crazy,

756
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 2: but leaps and bounds. Certainly things have come along leaps

757
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 2: and bounds. But I still have a couple of go

758
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 2: to cameras that I and I've said this before. You know, well,

759
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: what's your favorite camera. Well, listen, it's not really the

760
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: camera at the end of the day. It's not the hardware.

761
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: It's what you see and what you get out of

762
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: what you're trying to relate emotively and what the story

763
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 2: is and the message. So the camera doesn't really matter

764
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. But certain cameras do

765
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: certain things a little better than other cameras, but at

766
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 2: the moment. And I've always been a fan of likers,

767
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: you know, because there are classic cameras. I've done exhibitions

768
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: around the world with these guys. I think I'm not

769
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: to with Venice, I'm not to exhibition forty two in

770
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: the last clean years or whatever. So I've been working

771
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: my favorite check it in my bag camera is, I

772
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 2: have to say, as the like a Q three at

773
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 2: the moment, which you can use on auto or manual,

774
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,439
Speaker 2: so it gives you the best of both worlds. And

775
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: you know the quality the work. The quality is beautiful,

776
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 2: you know, the pictures are gorgeous.

777
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 3: Who are some photographers you admire.

778
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 2: That's a difficult one because a lot of names I

779
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: don't I don't remember. I know that sounds terrible, but

780
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: if I was to give you one, just one guy

781
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: that has been a mainstay for me, obviously, there's in

782
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 2: Timothy White because he got me into this mess in

783
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: the first place. Although you know his his photography is

784
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 2: more celebrity orientated and more fashion and celebrity and film orientated.

785
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 2: He's still a tremendous, tremendous photographer. But you know, my

786
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 2: kind of cup of tea there, I say, would be

787
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 2: the likes of Elliott Owit, Ansel Adams, you know, the classics.

788
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: I mean, there's some other great, great stuff out there.

789
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: But you know, whenever I'm asked who's what's your favorite?

790
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: Who's your favorite? My mind goes blank. It's one of

791
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: those what can I say it, it's you know, useless

792
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 2: and bloody useless.

793
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 3: I don't think so. So I know your pals with

794
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 3: the boys and you two and they had that run

795
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 3: at that place in Las Vegas called the Sphere.

796
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was there.

797
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: You were there. So what's your impression of that experience.

798
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a weird.

799
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 2: Run, I have to say, because your attention is certainly

800
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: drawn to the visuals because you're seeing little people that

801
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 2: look like ants running around on this little stage down

802
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: but you're taken in by the actual visuals of the experience.

803
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 2: On one hand, I'm not sure what to make of it,

804
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure that is it worth having a

805
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 2: live band there because I think the reality is you're

806
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 2: you're you're obviously you're listening to the experience, but it's

807
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 2: more of a visual experience too, from at least my

808
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 2: perspective and my you know, I just wanted to see

809
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: this wrap around three D or you know, this almost

810
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: three sixty degree a screen, you know, where you're being

811
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 2: drawn into this otherworldly experience. And yeah, it was nice

812
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 2: having the band there, but I don't want to say

813
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 2: they were insignificant, because that would be totally and wholly incorrect.

814
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: But it was for me predominantly a visual draw at

815
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 2: the end of the day than a lie band draw.

816
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: You know, you could, for me, you could have just

817
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 2: played the music from their albums and put the visuals

818
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: on and it would have been no disrespect, but it

819
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: would have been just as exciting in many respects. Not

820
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: that there weren't a few moments, certainly with the live situation,

821
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 2: but again I think it was This is very early

822
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 2: days with this kind of setup and this technology, and

823
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 2: I think it will only get better and improve even

824
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 2: more as they home down what it actually means to

825
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: do a show like that. There. I know that they're

826
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: building smaller versions of the sphere, which may be more

827
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: helpful for the band, so that there's still that relative

828
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 2: relationship between the live music and the audience. And you know,

829
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: the expanse of some of the visuals, but with the

830
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: spere it's kind of ott. You know, it's arizing, and

831
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: I just think the live band scenario gets a little lost,

832
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: but still still a bit jaw dropping, you know. But

833
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: I you know, with with the with the band, like

834
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: you two, they've always been at the forefront of unique

835
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: stage presentation. So in many respects, I expected nothing less,

836
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 2: you know, like, what did you think? I said, Well,

837
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: I expected nothing less. That's what I expected. Yeah, yeah,

838
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,959
Speaker 2: I was blown away, but you know it was Yeah,

839
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 2: I kind of expected it, which is a weird thing

840
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 2: to say, but that's how I feeled.

841
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: You know.

842
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 3: Well, congratulations on life's fragile moments, which is going to

843
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 3: make a great I would say stocking.

844
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 4: Stuffer, but it's a little bit big maybe, but it

845
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 4: could be a stocking stuffer.

846
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 3: It'll look nicely under under the tree.

847
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 5: And congratulations on it.

848
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 3: And I have to just tell you.

849
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 4: When I think of how grateful I am doing this podcast,

850
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 4: this is one of those moments where I'm doubly grateful

851
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 4: for doing this podcast for an opportunity to speak with.

852
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: You, Julian.

853
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 5: I appreciate everything about you and that you continue to

854
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 5: give us. I'm so grateful and thank you for being

855
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 5: on the Taking a Walk Podcast.

856
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 2: Thank you Bus. It's been my absolute pleasure and I

857
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 2: hope to see you sooner than later. Maybe on a

858
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: walk one day.

859
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 3: I'd love it.

860
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a

861
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends

862
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Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.