1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Calls media. I actually remember this era of my life 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: pretty vividly because it felt like a betrayal. Any follower 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: of this pod or my career over the years know 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: that you know I came from church, came from the hood. 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 2: But I came from church. 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: And I've talked about my soare into just white evangelicalism. 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: And it was from a position of just like I 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: don't come from the Bible Belt, I did not know 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: that we were not speaking the same language. I thought 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: when you said affect culture, you meant the same way 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: I did, like Martin Luther King and the beloved community 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: and serving the poor and standing with the marginalized. I 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: said this being very aware that pastors in America were 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: chaplains on slave ships. I knew that they would oftentimes 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: at the end of church service go had a Sunday 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: picnic and would lynch my ancestors. So you telling me 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: these people are Christian, As far as I concerned, that 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: don't mean nothing. There was certain things that just I 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: knew was a conversation stopper, like I don't there's not 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: a gospel I want to hear about out of the 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: mouth of a person who would lynch my ancestors. I 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: just there's not many words you can say to me 23 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: that said I thought we was in a place where 24 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: our relationships, our cultural communications, the sense of trust that 25 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: I might have built over, you know, years of being 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: a trusted voice, would mean that the day that Mike 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: Brown was murdered, but I can even go before that, 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: the day Oscar Grant was murdered, I thought maybe the 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: response of the American sort of white evangelical church as 30 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: a whole was a fractal of the fact that, you know, 31 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: maybe they just don't know, Maybe they don't know enough 32 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: people like me. Maybe I can be a cultural translator 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: to these people. Maybe I can be an example of 34 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: somebody who knows the Bible, you can articulate well positions 35 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: of the Christian faith, who knows history, clearly I know 36 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, who understands politics but comes from 37 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: a different perspective. Maybe you just need a different perspective, 38 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: only to find out that no, you don't want a 39 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: different perspective. You think exactly what you want to think. 40 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: And for me, that era was my first follower purge. 41 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: That's when the gig stopped coming and I started realizing that, 42 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: like you know, I hate to use this term, but 43 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this space ain't safe for me. And 44 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: we were sitting down and having great meals together. I 45 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: thought you, I thought I was making in roads. Turns out, 46 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: although we might be using the same words, we not 47 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: speaking the same language. And I remember thinking, every time 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: a young black black man or black woman was murdered 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: in the streets by a racist cop or an unfair system, 50 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: that on Sunday morning, your church and my church would 51 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: be saying very different things. And I did not realize 52 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: this would happen again to me. And the feeling I 53 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: felt then was the feeling I feel now. The day 54 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: that the Governor of Utah actually fixed his mouth to 55 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: say he was praying with all his heart that this 56 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: shooter would not be one of them, that the shooter 57 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: would have come from another state or another country. Boy, 58 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if he knows how prophetic that statement was. 59 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: Tap in with. 60 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: I think once again, it's I'm finding myself faced with 61 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: the reality that, like the Black Church, remains the moral 62 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: compass of the country. 63 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 2: Now. 64 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: I say that as a pretty hyperbolic statement, because the 65 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: Black Church, my lord, y'all. 66 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: Gotta stop being so homophobic man nigga. 67 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: Like y'all gotta stop, like y'all really gotta chill with 68 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: all that you don't say it. 69 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: So please, I am not gonna leave my. 70 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: Queer brothers and sisters, Hagen because my nigga, I feel you. 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: So I'm not saying this is some sort of free 72 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: past for you know, the black and the urban church. 73 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 2: Nigga, we got our problems. 74 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: But I am saying this when things like the death 75 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: of a black or brown person, bodies being snatched, another 76 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: innocent life being taken in Gaza, I know, and now 77 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: adding the death of Charlie Kirk. I know your church 78 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: and my mama's church are saying very different things because 79 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: in the African American church on Sunday mornings, you heard 80 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: a quote like this like Pastor Howard John Wesley out 81 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: in a Alfred Street Baptist Church. Now, again, this ain't 82 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: a code sign and everything they do, but I need 83 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: you to listen to this. There is nowhere in a 84 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: Bible where we are taught to honor evil. And how 85 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: you die does not redeem how you lived. You do 86 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: not become a hero in death when you are a 87 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: weapon of the enemy in your life. 88 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: Why are we saying that. 89 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: Because we watch a person who white church, evangelical church 90 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: venerated speak in the ways for which anybody that listened 91 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: to this politics podcast knows exactly the way that that 92 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: man spoke. He is speaking about that nuance that I 93 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: tried to talk about earlier this week, this complication of saying, listen, 94 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: I understand that people are complicated, but just because you 95 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: proclaim to believe a particular position, but the fruit of 96 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: your actions has subjugated an entire group of people, specifically 97 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: my own people, purposefully, it is very difficult for me 98 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: to just forget all those things again. Like I said 99 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: earlier this week, James Dobson, a leader of Focused on 100 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: the Family, Yeah, he blamed Sandy hook on the fact 101 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: that we legalize the gay marriage. 102 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: You can miss me with that. 103 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: But also I think these statements that he brought up, 104 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: it brings up the profundity of the statement that the 105 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: governor of Utah said, which is, I was praying it 106 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: wasn't us. What a metaphor for America. You was praying 107 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: it wasn't you. Wasn't it You ain't ever the problem? 108 00:06:58,480 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: Are you? It's never us? 109 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: Right? Oh, you'd rather burn history books. You'd rather end 110 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: the sixteen nineteen project. You'd rather end all DEI programs 111 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: than to admit that maybe the problem is you, to 112 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: which I know some detractors would look at me and say, well, 113 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: what about crimes in Chicago? 114 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: What about black on black crime? 115 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: Well, did anybody call it an assassination of Charlie Kirk 116 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: White on white crime? No, because it sounds ridiculous, just 117 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: as ridiculous as it is to say about black on 118 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,679 Speaker 1: black crime now. But speaking of black crime or crime 119 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: within our institutions or in our neighborhoods, there's already an 120 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: episode coming up where I interviewed the homeboy thiszle It's 121 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: going to be on that it can happen here feed. 122 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: But it's almost as if you're not aware of any 123 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: of the anti violence, the anti gang interventions of which 124 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: I am a product of after school programs designed for 125 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: us to take care of free and reduced lunch program 126 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: the things for which we have done to uplift our 127 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 1: own communities. This week had the East LA Parade, which 128 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: was a book fair, a job fair, and also a 129 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: health and wellness thing that was only on East LA 130 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: on the West side in Inglewood. They did a Black 131 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: Wellness seminar which was about black entrepreneur entrepreneurship, a black wellness, 132 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: black education, black tutoring. 133 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: We've been doing our best. 134 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: But we're also very aware when there are things that 135 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: are out of our control and out of our hands. 136 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: See that's the difference between your pulpit and my pulpit. 137 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: The clip that made me start paying attention to Charlie Kirk, 138 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: of which I did very often because I do a 139 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: politics podcast, was his clip about this debate he was 140 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: having in real life to mass incarceration and that the 141 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: criminal justice system is racist in its nature. He brought 142 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: up a statistic that said Black people make up thirteen 143 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: percent higher percentage of the prison population in America, thirteen 144 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: percent higher than anybody else, as to say that we 145 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: commit that many more crimes than everybody else. But Charlie 146 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: is smarter than that. Charlie knows that that is not 147 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: what that statistic proofs. What that statistic proofs is that 148 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: black people are incarcerated thirteen percent more. It means that 149 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: we're convicted and sentenced thirteen percent more. That's very different 150 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: than committing crimes because the truth is we commit just 151 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: about the same amount of crimes in relation to our 152 00:09:54,200 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: population than every other people group. There's considerably more, or 153 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: if you're gonna do the numbers, we're all considerably more 154 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: crime committed by white people. Why because there's just more 155 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: white people, that's how numbers work. But in percentage to 156 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: our population, we commit the same amount as everybody else. 157 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: And you know why a lot of crime is black 158 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 1: on black in relation to black people, because. 159 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: We live together. That's who's next to you. 160 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: No, why most crime white people's a given against other 161 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: white people because they live together. These are not hard 162 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: things to understand unless you are making a bad faith argument, 163 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: unless you are purposefully trying to win an argument with 164 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: a person that you believe doesn't understand statistics, or you're 165 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: not as fucking smart as everyone thinks you are because 166 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: you don't understand statistics. I apologize for getting angry right there, 167 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: but I truly don't believe that. I truly believe, just 168 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: like his whole thing about trans people in mass shootings, 169 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: he understands exactly what he's doing. But to say that 170 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: out loud would be to admit that the problem is 171 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: one of yours. Oh man, that Governor of Utah, you 172 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 1: set a mouthful, buddy. You don't never want to admit 173 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: it your problem. You don't ever want to admit the 174 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: problem is you. Oh he was a leftist Antifa person. 175 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: You know all that all that information about a bullet 176 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: having die Fascists inscribed on the bullet. You know that 177 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: was false. Right, it's been disproved. You know the groper 178 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: is No four chan is? Know what eight chan is. 179 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: You don't ever want to admit the problem is you, 180 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: do you? It ain't never your baby, is it? He 181 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: was praying the problem. He was praying it with somebody 182 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: from another country. 183 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: Huh. 184 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: Just like your job, just like your unemployment, right, just 185 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: like the crime in your neighborhood. It's the immigrants, ain't it. Yeah, buddy, 186 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: just like your precious little president. Right. He ain't on 187 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: that Epstein list. He was a he was a under 188 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: cover agent. Oh yeah, problem may never you is it? 189 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: I get it, though, I get it. Wrote a poem 190 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: about it. It's a fear of extinction. You don't want 191 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: to wipe out everybody believes in self preservation. So the 192 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: poem today, it's a poem called almost Part one. It's 193 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: really understanding why you don't ever want to admit the 194 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: problem is you. You fear extinction, which is what you think. Uh. 195 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: The great replacement theory is right that you're gonna get replaced. 196 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: But sir, we are not your problem. You your problem. 197 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: When I was younger, my biggest fear was David White 198 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: Boy bung tnc surf designs. 199 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: The whole nine Well. I didn't fear him. 200 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: Bullies come and go, phades requested and happily obliged. I 201 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: feared what I didn't understand about him. Of course, this 202 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: type of self reflection is only seen in a rear 203 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: view mirror, where, of course objects of childhood trauma are 204 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: closer than they appear. Hence this poem wasn't pinned until now. 205 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: I didn't understand I understand why all this was so 206 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: important to him. I don't understand how obsession and repulsion 207 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: can exist in the same body. 208 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: Why do you. 209 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,599 Speaker 1: Love and hate black people? Why am I so consequential? 210 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: I now think he feared extinction. I think his violence 211 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: was a trade passed down from his Neanderthal daddy, where 212 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: all actions were just an attempt to slow down atrophy. 213 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: As if God is not one of the funniest people. 214 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: See slowing down atrophy only accelerates it. 215 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: I'm not your problem, David. You are your problem. 216 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: Of course, I have no idea what happened to David, 217 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: although I do think his fear of extinction in some 218 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:12,599 Speaker 1: ways came to be. 219 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: See bullies are. 220 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: An eighties trope, and nerds are billionaires creating robots that 221 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: will exact their revenge on the very people that radicalize them. 222 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: See slowing down atrophy only accelerates it. But I don't 223 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: think it's a full extinction, because he did pass down 224 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: a trade to me. See I fear extinction too, but 225 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: not in the same ways. I understand all things come 226 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: to an end, and an end is just a new beginning. 227 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: I understand collective identity what I fear. 228 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: It's all most, the only thing I ever ran from. 229 00:14:46,280 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: It's all most